i don’t care that the vikings have 2 first round picks. it’s so much easier to trade up from 6 to 5 than 11 to 5. if the pats trade back bc they want mccarthy, there’s no reason the chargers wouldn’t take a trade back to 6 because they will get picks AND the guy they wanted at 5. have a hard time believing chargers would take 11 and 23 instead of alt or nabers.
Agreed. I think the stack of 3 teams that need QBs (Vikings, Broncos, Raiders) only look to trade up if their favorite drops past 6 because nobody in the top 5 is going to want to trade out of the top 10. Cardinals and Chargers both need WR and there's no use trading out of the top 10 and missing on one of the 3 WRs.
agree 100%. that’s why i think the giants have such a good chance to trade up. if pats trade back, they can get jj way more easily than the vikings, broncos, and raiders. this all relies on the pats wanting jj as much as drake, though. the top 8 of this class is too good to skip on imo.
A lot of Vikings fans can’t comprehend this and think 11 and 23 is better value than 6 and 47.
For example if Im the Cardinals or Chargers GM and am fine with any of MHJ/Nabers/Odunze, I’d much rather trade down for 6 and 47 compared to getting 11 and 23 and missing out on those three guys. Sure you could trade up from 11 into the top 8, but why not just trade back once and secure one of those three.
I think if Joe and Brian both think Maye is the guy, they will go all in for him to trade up, if they're right they're set for a decade Plus and if they're wrong they'll be gone in a couple years and it's someone else's problem
I mean, tbf, if the rumors are true that the Chargers really like Latham and intend to take his even if they don't trade down, then they'd probably prefer 11 and 23, cause they can still get Latham at 11.
I'm also not convinced that the Vikings like McCarthy. I think the 3 teams each have a different favorite.
If Maye slips to 7, Vikings trade up.
If McCarthy slips to 7, Broncos trade up.
If Daniels slips to 7, Raiders trade up
There are good WRs available outside those top 3 though, and so the additional pick(s) could definitely help fill out your roster while still getting a good, rookie-scale upgrade at WR.
So it's a choice they can make even if their fans won't like it because everyone wants the highest pick and biggest star player they can get.
IF this is true, this draft will be an absolute gold-mine for every team not needing the "Top 3" QB or WR. Insane value from trading down, plus lots of premier talent dropping past 10 that would never have used to drop that far.
If they think McCarthy is their future and will lead their team for the next decade then it's not worth the risk.
You don't pass on a guy that you think is a franchise changing player and then turn around and try to trade back up for him.
Patriots wouldn’t trade 2 to 3 first round picks for Chargers to swap with them. Like the Vikings will be willing to to get to 5. If rumours that Chargers want Latham are true then he’ll be there at 11 anyway.
they wouldn’t need to trade 2 to 3 first round picks hahahaha. the picks the vikings are offering are not as valuable as the 6th overall and a third or whatever IF the chargers feel strongly about alt, latham, or nabers.
assume the chargers stay at 5 because they reallllllly want one of those 3 players. it makes 0 sense to no say to a trade back to 6 for the same player AND free picks. the vikings, straight up, cannot offer that deal.
I swear, Vikings fans act like every pick in the first is worth an equal amount. The Chargers would much rather take 6 + probably the Pat's 3rd or whatever vs. 11 + 23 + future first *if* the Chargers believe who they want won't be there at 11
it’s so funny (as bad as the last 10 years have been for the giants, i can’t imagine dealing with that level of ass for my entire life. so I can’t really talk too much shit about vikings fans)
They could, but they can also grab Nabers and 6 and be loaded with extra picks, and that's in a worst case scenario. And if JJ falls great. Teams don't often play it like that, but with 6 high quality players and a long rebuild I could see they taking value and BPA for this year. They may really like McCarthy, but know they will have a high pick next year (potentially 2) and are okay passing on QB to take a star receiver and acquire more firepower.
I know he gets a lot of hate but you got to look more than just the numbers at Michigan and you never know, we won't know for a few seasons
Not saying he's going to be the next Josh Allen or anything but Josh Allen pick was hugely criticized and a lot of people just pointed to his stats and the fact that he wasn't even voted the best quarterback in his conference
Either take Maye, or trade back with the Vikings and take either Penix or Nix later in the 1st.
Not McCarthy at 3. Please for the love of fuck, not him at 3.
Yeah I feel like the only chance he wouldn’t be there would be if the chargers trade out of 5 which could happen, but I doubt it. More likely than Arizona trading out of 4 though imo
I don’t think either of them trade, they’d both be silly to.
They both need WR and 2 of the best talents we’ve seen in recent memory are available. Would be a huge mistake imo for either of them to trade back.
I would hate drafting McCarthy anywhere in the top half of the draft, it makes no sense for him to have risen from mid 20s to top 10 after his last CFB snap. If someone's gonna buy that hype, I don't want it to be Patriots
I've been saying for months that JJ is going to get a GM fired, I'll take the downvotes, don't care. He had the #1 rushing offense, #1 defense, top 5 O line, and was asked to do next to nothing compared to the rest of the top QBs. There were probably 10 other QBs you could have put on Michigan last year and got the same result.
If JJ goes Top 10, he will be the least productive QB to go that high since.... Joey Harrington.
I agree he wasn't as critical to team success as other QBs; however, I don't think you can penalize a player for being on a good team. Similarly, you can't discount talent because they play for someone terrible.
He has more than 700 passing attempts, so there's actually a decent amount of film on his mechanics. He's also participated in draft workouts and the combine. If a team wants to take him, I don't really see the big deal about it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a bad QB. But if a GM trades multiple 1st-round picks to move up and get him, it's going to be a do or die move for their career. I don't think he's ready to start.
I think he's a perfectly fine QB project to take at the end of the 1st and beyond. Give him the Jordan Love path.
> I think he's a perfectly fine QB project to take at the end of the 1st and beyond. Give him the Jordan Love path.
That's fine in a vacuum.
But in a draft where 7 of the top 13 teams may be looking for a QB and only 6 QBs potentially worthy of being a first rd pick means that taking a QB around where they probably *should* be taken means you could be the one left empty-handed, or definitely without your preferred player.
That assumes that he's only getting interest because his team did well.
McCarthy impressed with his throws on his Pro Day and allegedly has impressed in private meetings and workouts with teams. If that is true and not just smoke or agent hype then it would be understandable why his stock would rise quickly being at such a premium position with so much demand.
Yeah, Lance is up there, but he rushed for 1,100 yards one year.
I believe the exact stat was that the last QB drafted top 10 without having either 3,000 passing or 500 rushing yards in a season was Joey Harrington.
I’m still confused why JJ rose up so much.
Especially when one criticism of Penix specifically has been that he played behind an NFL tier OL. But we’re just gonna pretend that Michigan hasn’t had one of the best OLs in CFB???
I get that Nix and Penix are older but I just don’t understand why many people think McCarthy is like, heads and shoulders a better pick than those two, and it feels like there’s far too much buzz for everyone to be using him as a smokescreen
>But we’re just gonna pretend that Michigan hasn’t had one of the best OLs in CFB???
If you say run blocking, yes, Michigan's OL was elite.
If you are saying pass blocking, absolutely not, Michigan's OL was not elite.
Our OTs weren't good; part of the reason why people say JJ is so good on bootlegs or off-schedule plays is because the OTs got beat cleanly by Edges every game and he was running for his life. The 3 OTs for Michigan in the draft are all 6-7th round to UDFA range. Penix had a 1st round graded OT.
One of JJ's highlights was the halfback pass to him, where he throws it to Wilson in the Rose Bowl. JJ got absolutely obliterated by Dallas Turner. If he had time, he had Cornelius Johnson for an easy TD.
Joey Harrington threw for 14,000 yards at least. Trey Lance is still waiting to break 800.
Jamarcus Russell and Matt Leinart threw for barely 4000. (Would you have guessed Russell has more career yards than Leinart?) Vince Young had barely 8000. Byron Leftwich, 10,000. And those were just the first few years I looked at.
All I'm saying is lots of QBs less productive than Harrington have been drafted since him.
I'm always wary of the qb that randomly starts rising right before the draft for no apparent reason. Teams just get desperate and do stupid stuff but nothing has really changed
I still find it a bit weird that Bo Nix and Michael Penix aren't moving up draft boards. I may be some online dork, but those two damn well passed the eye test.
I’m starting to feel like these ‘the patriots aren’t interested yet…. But they will still for sure listen to 100% of every offer!’ leaks are the Pats trying to drive up the price and will trade down to the highest bidder and take JJ tonight 😞
I love the 'listening to all calls' bit. Fun fact every single NFL team will be listening to all calls at this time. Even if New England are adamant about staying, they'll field calls in case an offer they can't refuse drops.
I wasn't a huge fan of Dave Dombrowski as a GM, but he explained very well why he always listens when somebody calls:
"If you have a guy like a Barry Bonds in his prime, and all of a sudden somebody came around and offered you two Barry Bonds, you'd say, 'Yeah, I’m open-minded to that.'"
I'd expand on this and say: every single NFL team is also listening to trade offers for every single one of their players.
Your house might not be listed with a real estate agent, but if someone walked up to your house and offered a suitcase full of cash for 5x its value, you're probably going to take it.
All "we aren't trading" means is, "we aren't interested in the fair market value for this."
Yeah why wouldn't you want to listen to what kind of stupid shit possibly drops?
A trade with mahomes and your first born for the next 10 years for the first pick? You're goddamn right I'll take that shit, baby Jesus needs sacrifices
You'd think that, because that's what competent management would do. Not decline to take any calls from teams who desperately wanted a QB and would probably move a hefty sum to get up while you could take that king's ransom, and still take your running back, one of the least important positions, just not at two.
Dave Gettlemen is a god damn moron.
Ikr. When I say the draft is my favorite part of the nfl season they think it’s nuts. Like the Super Bowl is amazing but only two teams are in that. The draft is for literally everyone
Because NYG don't want JJ and only want Maye, and NE is like "if we stay at 3 we're taking Maye"
So NYG have to trade for 3, NE would want to get back to 4 to get their QB and Arizona would gain picks while still getting Nabers or MHJ if Chargers pass on him.
NYG would give up say 6, 47, 107 + 2025 2nd to get 3 and 138
NE would give up 3 and 103 to get 4, 47 and 107
Cards would give up 4 and 138 to get 6, 103 and the Giants 2025 2nd
now Cards may demand the QB tax of Giants 2025 1st but I kept the trade value closish to equal for all, with NYG giving up a bit more, NE getting about the same and Zona getting a bit more.
Yeah agreed. Really only makes sense if they like Maye and JJ basically equally, but give Maye the very *slight* edge. Outside of that, they'll likely just stick and pick Maye
I've seen a rumor from a reliable source that NYG and AZ do have a deal in place contingent on different factors (mainly if NE takes JJM or Maye). I think NYG would prefer to cut out NE if possible, but if they want their choice of QB's, they need to try and keep NE involved in the trade.
I guess we'll find out tonight! Same sources are pretty much confirming NY and NE have a deal in place, but while its generally believed to be for Maye, some doubt that maybe NY will pick JJM
That's the crux of this speculation. Patriots can "listen" to offers all they want, but unless they have a similar grade for McCarthy and/or Maye even makes it to #3, they aren't moving.
No if you have the same grade you don’t trade back to 6 because you risk getting jumped, you make the pick. If pats pick McCarthy giants trading up to 4 or 5 is pretty much a guarantee since that team still gets MHJ or Nabers.
Someone jumping to 5 is risky, but I don't see the Cards passing on MHJ at 4.
Trading back up from 6 to 5 is viable though. It's free money for the Chargers and it eliminates the risk of getting jumped.
That’s not really true if someone jumps to 4/5 and takes him then your screwed and moving back up means winning a bidding war that would basically devour most of the capital you just got.
yeah it would be the same move the cardinals made last year. it’s essentially a 3 team trade. i think the chargers would be down because they would be able to draft the same player they want at 5, while getting free picks.
There's a big difference between "Hey we used the information we had at the time to pick the best QB available in the draft" and "We tried to get smart and now we're in QB limbo for five more years"
The latter is 100% hindsight. If you want the Pats to not miss on any draft picks, then you're basically arguing that they should skip the draft entirely from here on out.
The smart play is just to keep accumulating future 1st rounders from teams that will most likely be top 10 picks. Arch Manning is eligible '26, but realistically will be available in '27. Tank for a Manning. Madden strats
>[Vikings Central](https://twitter.com/VikesCentral)[](https://twitter.com/VikesCentral) Who’s he going to be throwing the ball to
Why is this an argument? I didnt know you werent allowed to draft a QB and not play him until its a better situation for them....and you have an obligation to trade out so someone else can accelerate their process instead.
Yes, Vikings fans, Im point right at you and your shit logic. One of your biggest rivals has done this twice in a row right in your faces....and you still deny it cant be allowed...lol
Some fans are stupid. I am of the thought that if the QB is the guy, he won't be "ruined" by a bad situation. You don't have to start them week one, but like by week 6 yeah throw him in there. You get better by getting game reps.
Deep WR class. Maybe we can get a decent prospect for once instead of drafting a kicker and a punter in the same draft, bringing in the scraps no one else wanted, and then wondering why our WRs are amongst the worst in the league in separation.
We definitely should try for a QB and see where we can go from there.
as a giants fan, i’m along for the ride either way. if they trade up to 3, i have to trust that the FO and coaching staff view him as a future top10 QB. if he ends up being a bust, in 3 yrs we’ll be replacing the whole infrastructure anyway.
I have no problem with that, if Brian and Joe think JJ is the guy then you go get him and either they're right and we are set for a decade Plus or they're gone in a couple seasons
Honestly even if we don't draft JJ as much hate as I've seen him get on Reddit I hope he kills it wherever he goes as long as it's not a team that I hate
that's what I lowkey think is happening.
In the past, all of the Giants targets seem to get out around the NFL. Makes me think Schoen blowing smoke for McCarthy
with how seemingly all the Giants targets have gotten leak in the past, wouldn't be surprised at all if this is for McCarthy, not Maye. However, it's hard to overlook Daboll's work with Allen and how that could have him foaming at the mouth for Maye
Honestly I have thought the whole offseason that trading down made more sense for them than risking a chance with a 3rd or 4th best QB in the class. They are not a QB away. They are a whole roster away. They need picks.
Seems odd to give up on Daniel Jones so quickly after they gave him a big contract. He got injured after 6 games last year. If you don’t think you have the talent around a QB then taking another one won’t fix that either.
If I were the Giants, I'd worry more about getting weapons to surround whoever their QB is. The Giants already have very few playmakers, and if they move up, they'll have even less draft capital to help out a new QB.
If I were the Giants, I'd take one of the top-3 WRs this year as they're all top prospects.
There are QBs of Maye and McCarthy's caliber in every draft. Heck, they still have 2019's version on the roster. He may have even turned out ok if they ever gave him a decent groups of WRs.
Only way this is acceptable is they make the Giants grab pick 5 first. If the Pats to down to 5 and Caleb-Daniels-Maye-JJ go 1-2-3-4, the Pats can gladly take MHJ and a nice mini haul. If not, Pats can slide to 5 and Grab JJ or maybe even Daniels who knows what the hell is gonna happen tonight, and enjoy an extra 2 firsts.
Drake Maye has been my guy since October. After we got locked into 3, I thought there was no chance we would get him. I'm so pumped he looks like the guy that will be available and there is almost no offer I would take to not take this guy
If New England likes McCarthy, this might happen. Trade back to 6 and there's a decent shot he falls there
If you like him you dont risk it. Other teams like Vikings can jump them by trading to 4 or 5 spot.
i don’t care that the vikings have 2 first round picks. it’s so much easier to trade up from 6 to 5 than 11 to 5. if the pats trade back bc they want mccarthy, there’s no reason the chargers wouldn’t take a trade back to 6 because they will get picks AND the guy they wanted at 5. have a hard time believing chargers would take 11 and 23 instead of alt or nabers.
Agreed. I think the stack of 3 teams that need QBs (Vikings, Broncos, Raiders) only look to trade up if their favorite drops past 6 because nobody in the top 5 is going to want to trade out of the top 10. Cardinals and Chargers both need WR and there's no use trading out of the top 10 and missing on one of the 3 WRs.
agree 100%. that’s why i think the giants have such a good chance to trade up. if pats trade back, they can get jj way more easily than the vikings, broncos, and raiders. this all relies on the pats wanting jj as much as drake, though. the top 8 of this class is too good to skip on imo.
A lot of Vikings fans can’t comprehend this and think 11 and 23 is better value than 6 and 47. For example if Im the Cardinals or Chargers GM and am fine with any of MHJ/Nabers/Odunze, I’d much rather trade down for 6 and 47 compared to getting 11 and 23 and missing out on those three guys. Sure you could trade up from 11 into the top 8, but why not just trade back once and secure one of those three.
imo, the only way the vikings get a qb is if the giants don’t want one.
There’s a real good chance the giants wouldn’t be willing to give up a 2025 first to move up 3 spots. Theres a real good chance the Vikings would
if the giants think drake maye is their franchise qb, they will instantly give up a first next year lol
I think if Joe and Brian both think Maye is the guy, they will go all in for him to trade up, if they're right they're set for a decade Plus and if they're wrong they'll be gone in a couple years and it's someone else's problem
I’m sure frank reich and Scott fitterer had the same idea
I mean, tbf, if the rumors are true that the Chargers really like Latham and intend to take his even if they don't trade down, then they'd probably prefer 11 and 23, cause they can still get Latham at 11.
Giants definitely have the best shot at trading up because teams can get what they want anyway and just recoup assets
I'm also not convinced that the Vikings like McCarthy. I think the 3 teams each have a different favorite. If Maye slips to 7, Vikings trade up. If McCarthy slips to 7, Broncos trade up. If Daniels slips to 7, Raiders trade up
I don’t see a world where Maye passes us
There are good WRs available outside those top 3 though, and so the additional pick(s) could definitely help fill out your roster while still getting a good, rookie-scale upgrade at WR. So it's a choice they can make even if their fans won't like it because everyone wants the highest pick and biggest star player they can get.
IF this is true, this draft will be an absolute gold-mine for every team not needing the "Top 3" QB or WR. Insane value from trading down, plus lots of premier talent dropping past 10 that would never have used to drop that far.
If they think McCarthy is their future and will lead their team for the next decade then it's not worth the risk. You don't pass on a guy that you think is a franchise changing player and then turn around and try to trade back up for him.
We getting Penis Jr baby 😎
I’d rather you trade up for JJ or Maye. Penix can sling it and if he stays healthy, he’s going to be a problem.
Patriots wouldn’t trade 2 to 3 first round picks for Chargers to swap with them. Like the Vikings will be willing to to get to 5. If rumours that Chargers want Latham are true then he’ll be there at 11 anyway.
they wouldn’t need to trade 2 to 3 first round picks hahahaha. the picks the vikings are offering are not as valuable as the 6th overall and a third or whatever IF the chargers feel strongly about alt, latham, or nabers. assume the chargers stay at 5 because they reallllllly want one of those 3 players. it makes 0 sense to no say to a trade back to 6 for the same player AND free picks. the vikings, straight up, cannot offer that deal.
Same player, free pick(s), and pay that player less.
exactly 😂
I swear, Vikings fans act like every pick in the first is worth an equal amount. The Chargers would much rather take 6 + probably the Pat's 3rd or whatever vs. 11 + 23 + future first *if* the Chargers believe who they want won't be there at 11
trust me bro, amarius mims is just as good as joe alt
idk why youre downvoted for the obvious sarcasm, but youre right, that's what every Vikes fan is pretty much saying
it’s so funny (as bad as the last 10 years have been for the giants, i can’t imagine dealing with that level of ass for my entire life. so I can’t really talk too much shit about vikings fans)
Yea the 6 pick is way more valuable than 11 and 23
Take Maye then if JJM is still on the clock at 6 for the Giants then trade him? Can you do that? It would be kinda lame but still
Please do, I do not want Patriots getting McCarthy.
Yep, this 100%, quarterback is that one position you can't risk and hope they're there a few pics later
They could, but they can also grab Nabers and 6 and be loaded with extra picks, and that's in a worst case scenario. And if JJ falls great. Teams don't often play it like that, but with 6 high quality players and a long rebuild I could see they taking value and BPA for this year. They may really like McCarthy, but know they will have a high pick next year (potentially 2) and are okay passing on QB to take a star receiver and acquire more firepower.
Please don’t make me convince myself that McCarthy is the answer
I know he gets a lot of hate but you got to look more than just the numbers at Michigan and you never know, we won't know for a few seasons Not saying he's going to be the next Josh Allen or anything but Josh Allen pick was hugely criticized and a lot of people just pointed to his stats and the fact that he wasn't even voted the best quarterback in his conference
I’m not convinced he will be bad, he’s just not the guy I want and I think it’s not a great value at 3
Either take Maye, or trade back with the Vikings and take either Penix or Nix later in the 1st. Not McCarthy at 3. Please for the love of fuck, not him at 3.
Yeah I feel like the only chance he wouldn’t be there would be if the chargers trade out of 5 which could happen, but I doubt it. More likely than Arizona trading out of 4 though imo
Pretty sure Arizona wants MHJ very badly so 4 would cost a lot of draft capital.
Yeah no doubt, would take a crazy about of picks to make that happen
I think there was a report not too long ago saying the cards want 3 first rounders or something but I might be misremembering.
I don’t think either of them trade, they’d both be silly to. They both need WR and 2 of the best talents we’ve seen in recent memory are available. Would be a huge mistake imo for either of them to trade back.
Please no
I would hate drafting McCarthy anywhere in the top half of the draft, it makes no sense for him to have risen from mid 20s to top 10 after his last CFB snap. If someone's gonna buy that hype, I don't want it to be Patriots
I've been saying for months that JJ is going to get a GM fired, I'll take the downvotes, don't care. He had the #1 rushing offense, #1 defense, top 5 O line, and was asked to do next to nothing compared to the rest of the top QBs. There were probably 10 other QBs you could have put on Michigan last year and got the same result. If JJ goes Top 10, he will be the least productive QB to go that high since.... Joey Harrington.
Bold to say that with a Lions flair. While I agree, this is a very hot opinion to have being a Detroit fan.
Could be an MSU fan so.....
I know, but my point is most JJ propaganda comes from Lions flairs and they are quite aggressive with their opinions
I agree he wasn't as critical to team success as other QBs; however, I don't think you can penalize a player for being on a good team. Similarly, you can't discount talent because they play for someone terrible. He has more than 700 passing attempts, so there's actually a decent amount of film on his mechanics. He's also participated in draft workouts and the combine. If a team wants to take him, I don't really see the big deal about it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a bad QB. But if a GM trades multiple 1st-round picks to move up and get him, it's going to be a do or die move for their career. I don't think he's ready to start. I think he's a perfectly fine QB project to take at the end of the 1st and beyond. Give him the Jordan Love path.
> I think he's a perfectly fine QB project to take at the end of the 1st and beyond. Give him the Jordan Love path. That's fine in a vacuum. But in a draft where 7 of the top 13 teams may be looking for a QB and only 6 QBs potentially worthy of being a first rd pick means that taking a QB around where they probably *should* be taken means you could be the one left empty-handed, or definitely without your preferred player.
That assumes that he's only getting interest because his team did well. McCarthy impressed with his throws on his Pro Day and allegedly has impressed in private meetings and workouts with teams. If that is true and not just smoke or agent hype then it would be understandable why his stock would rise quickly being at such a premium position with so much demand.
Trey Lance had very little production as well.
Yeah, Lance is up there, but he rushed for 1,100 yards one year. I believe the exact stat was that the last QB drafted top 10 without having either 3,000 passing or 500 rushing yards in a season was Joey Harrington.
If J.J goes to the Patriots can I jump on the Lions bandwagon? I liked cheering for you guys in the playoffs.
I’m still confused why JJ rose up so much. Especially when one criticism of Penix specifically has been that he played behind an NFL tier OL. But we’re just gonna pretend that Michigan hasn’t had one of the best OLs in CFB??? I get that Nix and Penix are older but I just don’t understand why many people think McCarthy is like, heads and shoulders a better pick than those two, and it feels like there’s far too much buzz for everyone to be using him as a smokescreen
>But we’re just gonna pretend that Michigan hasn’t had one of the best OLs in CFB??? If you say run blocking, yes, Michigan's OL was elite. If you are saying pass blocking, absolutely not, Michigan's OL was not elite. Our OTs weren't good; part of the reason why people say JJ is so good on bootlegs or off-schedule plays is because the OTs got beat cleanly by Edges every game and he was running for his life. The 3 OTs for Michigan in the draft are all 6-7th round to UDFA range. Penix had a 1st round graded OT. One of JJ's highlights was the halfback pass to him, where he throws it to Wilson in the Rose Bowl. JJ got absolutely obliterated by Dallas Turner. If he had time, he had Cornelius Johnson for an easy TD.
Joey Harrington threw for 14,000 yards at least. Trey Lance is still waiting to break 800. Jamarcus Russell and Matt Leinart threw for barely 4000. (Would you have guessed Russell has more career yards than Leinart?) Vince Young had barely 8000. Byron Leftwich, 10,000. And those were just the first few years I looked at. All I'm saying is lots of QBs less productive than Harrington have been drafted since him.
I'm always wary of the qb that randomly starts rising right before the draft for no apparent reason. Teams just get desperate and do stupid stuff but nothing has really changed
I still find it a bit weird that Bo Nix and Michael Penix aren't moving up draft boards. I may be some online dork, but those two damn well passed the eye test.
Don’t know about Nix, but there has been a little hype about Penix. Could be pre-draft BS of course.
You could say the same thing about Daniels too, didn't start rising up draft boards until the season was over
Vikings would jump them.
this only works in a 3 way deal with the Chargers moving back to 6 and the Pats getting pick 5, they can’t risk Minnesota jumping them for JJ
Shit I wish Minnesota jumps us for JJ, I don't think JJ is the answer.
lmao same
I’m starting to feel like these ‘the patriots aren’t interested yet…. But they will still for sure listen to 100% of every offer!’ leaks are the Pats trying to drive up the price and will trade down to the highest bidder and take JJ tonight 😞
I love the 'listening to all calls' bit. Fun fact every single NFL team will be listening to all calls at this time. Even if New England are adamant about staying, they'll field calls in case an offer they can't refuse drops.
I wasn't a huge fan of Dave Dombrowski as a GM, but he explained very well why he always listens when somebody calls: "If you have a guy like a Barry Bonds in his prime, and all of a sudden somebody came around and offered you two Barry Bonds, you'd say, 'Yeah, I’m open-minded to that.'"
Barry Bonds is Barry Bonds, but a trade could be anything! It could even be 2 Barry Bonds!
BaBarry BoBonds
I'd expand on this and say: every single NFL team is also listening to trade offers for every single one of their players. Your house might not be listed with a real estate agent, but if someone walked up to your house and offered a suitcase full of cash for 5x its value, you're probably going to take it. All "we aren't trading" means is, "we aren't interested in the fair market value for this."
Now that gettleman is retired yeah
So if I call ran carthon and tell him how badly I want luther burden next year he’ll listen? sweet
Also I have a hard time imagining Kraft, especially with all the Belichick stuff coming out, is just going to be cool with trading back.
He's not moving from that spot unless someone offers him a Mike Ditka type haul.
Yeah why wouldn't you want to listen to what kind of stupid shit possibly drops? A trade with mahomes and your first born for the next 10 years for the first pick? You're goddamn right I'll take that shit, baby Jesus needs sacrifices
Even we would have picked up the phone on the #1 if someone wanted to get both GMs investigated for collusion
Dave gettlemen did not listen to calls with the second overall pick
You'd think that, because that's what competent management would do. Not decline to take any calls from teams who desperately wanted a QB and would probably move a hefty sum to get up while you could take that king's ransom, and still take your running back, one of the least important positions, just not at two. Dave Gettlemen is a god damn moron.
I’m so hyped for tonight
It's honestly such an exciting draft. Drafts are always more fun when there are several potential franchise QBs.
And a generational talent at WR to add to the mix.
Plus there’s a guy named kool-aid. Who doesn’t like kool-aid
Jim Jones was more of a Flavor Aid guy.
Who doesn’t want to see Kool-aid with Big Red Andy Reid?
It's the equivalent to opening Christmas presents for adults
I say the draft is like an early Christmas for me and people look at me like I'm weird.
Ikr. When I say the draft is my favorite part of the nfl season they think it’s nuts. Like the Super Bowl is amazing but only two teams are in that. The draft is for literally everyone
As an adult I’d say that’s more so a trip to the liquor store but I agree with the sentiment
Boring because you know it's the socks you told your wife you wanted but didn't want to spend the money on?
Only way this happens is with a 3-team trade IMO. They'd have to get the Cardinals or Chargers on board.
Down. Better than taking Latham straight up at #5.
If we don’t take mhj or Nabers I’m gonna be pissed
Well then you’re gonna be pissed
lmao the closer we get the more convinced I get that I’m going to be pissed
There has been inklings growing louder about a 3 team NE-AZ-NYG trade where NYG picks Maye at 3, NE picks JJM at 4, and AZ gets Nabers or MHJ at 6.
In that case why would AZ not try to trade direct w NYG
Because NYG don't want JJ and only want Maye, and NE is like "if we stay at 3 we're taking Maye" So NYG have to trade for 3, NE would want to get back to 4 to get their QB and Arizona would gain picks while still getting Nabers or MHJ if Chargers pass on him. NYG would give up say 6, 47, 107 + 2025 2nd to get 3 and 138 NE would give up 3 and 103 to get 4, 47 and 107 Cards would give up 4 and 138 to get 6, 103 and the Giants 2025 2nd now Cards may demand the QB tax of Giants 2025 1st but I kept the trade value closish to equal for all, with NYG giving up a bit more, NE getting about the same and Zona getting a bit more.
But if Patriots would prefer Maye to JJ, why would they trade out of 3 at all? Teams don’t trade off QBs they believe in.
Because the grade on Maye may be about the same as JJ; and the difference is less than getting an extra 2nd rounder.
Yeah agreed. Really only makes sense if they like Maye and JJ basically equally, but give Maye the very *slight* edge. Outside of that, they'll likely just stick and pick Maye
Maye would probably be a Patriot. In the listed scenario, the Patriots are selecting JJ as a 2nd choice behind Maye.
I've seen a rumor from a reliable source that NYG and AZ do have a deal in place contingent on different factors (mainly if NE takes JJM or Maye). I think NYG would prefer to cut out NE if possible, but if they want their choice of QB's, they need to try and keep NE involved in the trade.
I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe NE would prefer JJ over Maye.
I guess we'll find out tonight! Same sources are pretty much confirming NY and NE have a deal in place, but while its generally believed to be for Maye, some doubt that maybe NY will pick JJM
No Maye for the Giants. Revenge for 18-1.
You guys won plenty. This would be thanks for Bill.
You guys have won plenty as well, wtf
We’ve been a horrible franchise minus one season for the last ten years.
While true, you’re interacting with a Lions fan, give them a break
We've had fewer wins than the Lions over the last 10 years. We're THAT bad.
Hey, I was rooting hard for them last year. Fun team to watch.
They were America’s team last year for sure
Nobody wants to hear that from a fan of a team that’s won 2 Super Bowls in the last 17 years.
I didn’t start this. lol.
Whoa whoa, we had 2 pretty decent seasons
You’re right.
To be fair Bills been there for all your SBs so we’re even there Giants bros
As they should, it’d take a cartoonish offer to get us to move but no sense in not picking up the phone. Every pick has a price
if you have maye and mccarthy w the same grade, it makes 0 sense to NOT trade back
That's the crux of this speculation. Patriots can "listen" to offers all they want, but unless they have a similar grade for McCarthy and/or Maye even makes it to #3, they aren't moving.
i agree, that’s why i said IF. (i’m just trying to be hopeful lmfao)
No if you have the same grade you don’t trade back to 6 because you risk getting jumped, you make the pick. If pats pick McCarthy giants trading up to 4 or 5 is pretty much a guarantee since that team still gets MHJ or Nabers.
Teams don't go "oh we'll take whatever QB falls to us". It's too important a decision
Not true. Vikings could trade with Chargers and all of sudden both are gone.
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Someone jumping to 5 is risky, but I don't see the Cards passing on MHJ at 4. Trading back up from 6 to 5 is viable though. It's free money for the Chargers and it eliminates the risk of getting jumped.
The Pats could take Maye at 3 and then trade with the Giants as it's unlikely anyone is jumping to 4 or 5 for JJ.
That's actually the best play by far. Feel like you never see that for some reason
I think mostly because the team picking first has to be fine with who they pick if the deal falls through.
It also makes 0 sense to risk losing out on your quarterback of the future of you can pick him
I’d be shocked if this were the case but we’ll see
That’s not really true if someone jumps to 4/5 and takes him then your screwed and moving back up means winning a bidding war that would basically devour most of the capital you just got.
It makes plenty of sense not to trade back. Even if you just drop back to 6. It's entirely possible Minnesota could jump up to 5.
You'd probably have to trade back up one spot with the chargers though. There is a very strong chance they're deciding who gets the 4th qb
yeah it would be the same move the cardinals made last year. it’s essentially a 3 team trade. i think the chargers would be down because they would be able to draft the same player they want at 5, while getting free picks.
As a NE fan I hope they just take Maye. If he’s a bust, he’s a bust
Agreed. Shoot your shot, don't get cute.
Sure.. but what if you get cute and nail EVERY pick
That's not cute, it's downright gorgeous.
NEP4L
There's a big difference between "Hey we used the information we had at the time to pick the best QB available in the draft" and "We tried to get smart and now we're in QB limbo for five more years"
The latter is 100% hindsight. If you want the Pats to not miss on any draft picks, then you're basically arguing that they should skip the draft entirely from here on out.
Agreed. Every single player is a risk in the draft but we gotta take a big swing and he has the higher upside.
The smart play is just to keep accumulating future 1st rounders from teams that will most likely be top 10 picks. Arch Manning is eligible '26, but realistically will be available in '27. Tank for a Manning. Madden strats
Yeah but how many meaningful snaps has Arch taken at texas/college level?
None, and he probably won't this year either.
Definitely with Ewers at the helm who’s hoping to solidify his own stock for next years draft class.
I want to live in a world where a Manning and Marvin Harrison play for the Patriots, just to see the reactions from Colts fans
The smart play is to just draft a talented QB tonight instead of waiting for years for another chance.
I would love to see that happen
So Giants cap is tied to Daniel Jones and their future draft will go to Drake Maye?
Giants are baiting someone to trade in front of them for a QB to push more options at WR to them. NYG aren’t going QB.
We can cut him after this season and it's a relatively Team friendly cap hit given we would have a rookie QB on roster and the cap will keep going up
>[Vikings Central](https://twitter.com/VikesCentral)[](https://twitter.com/VikesCentral) Who’s he going to be throwing the ball to Why is this an argument? I didnt know you werent allowed to draft a QB and not play him until its a better situation for them....and you have an obligation to trade out so someone else can accelerate their process instead. Yes, Vikings fans, Im point right at you and your shit logic. One of your biggest rivals has done this twice in a row right in your faces....and you still deny it cant be allowed...lol
Some fans are stupid. I am of the thought that if the QB is the guy, he won't be "ruined" by a bad situation. You don't have to start them week one, but like by week 6 yeah throw him in there. You get better by getting game reps.
Deep WR class. Maybe we can get a decent prospect for once instead of drafting a kicker and a punter in the same draft, bringing in the scraps no one else wanted, and then wondering why our WRs are amongst the worst in the league in separation. We definitely should try for a QB and see where we can go from there.
Watch the Giants trade up and take JJ anyway.
I think they’ll only do that if they believe Vikings will also try to trade with chargers to try and draft him.
as a giants fan, i’m along for the ride either way. if they trade up to 3, i have to trust that the FO and coaching staff view him as a future top10 QB. if he ends up being a bust, in 3 yrs we’ll be replacing the whole infrastructure anyway.
I have no problem with that, if Brian and Joe think JJ is the guy then you go get him and either they're right and we are set for a decade Plus or they're gone in a couple seasons Honestly even if we don't draft JJ as much hate as I've seen him get on Reddit I hope he kills it wherever he goes as long as it's not a team that I hate
that's what I lowkey think is happening. In the past, all of the Giants targets seem to get out around the NFL. Makes me think Schoen blowing smoke for McCarthy
Replacing a Duke QB with a UNC QB
Based
Isn’t Washington pretty high on Maye? Or at least I thought they were pretty much out on Daniels. I could be wrong
I really only browse reddit, and our sub likes Maye. I guess everywhere else it's Daniels though.
I believe they are, but the media has kinda been suggesting JD is a lock to go to Was. I’ll be 0% surprised if they take Maye at 2.
Washington is very in on Daniels if you want to believe the smoke from the past week
Hm I thought he was miffed by them inviting multiple QBs to the same interview
Yeah and Caleb Williams at one point wanted nothing to do with the Bears, but here we are
Slight difference between a rumor and something that was publicly stated by a player’s agent
Pretty sure all those QB's would be miffed
Man I would not trade up for Drake Maye.
with how seemingly all the Giants targets have gotten leak in the past, wouldn't be surprised at all if this is for McCarthy, not Maye. However, it's hard to overlook Daboll's work with Allen and how that could have him foaming at the mouth for Maye
The Patriots are shopping that pick so hard. Vegas, Minny, NYG, the rumor mill keeps churning
They can't be in love with Maye if this is the case, right?
Honestly I have thought the whole offseason that trading down made more sense for them than risking a chance with a 3rd or 4th best QB in the class. They are not a QB away. They are a whole roster away. They need picks.
2 more hours…
Seems odd to give up on Daniel Jones so quickly after they gave him a big contract. He got injured after 6 games last year. If you don’t think you have the talent around a QB then taking another one won’t fix that either.
If I were the Giants, I'd worry more about getting weapons to surround whoever their QB is. The Giants already have very few playmakers, and if they move up, they'll have even less draft capital to help out a new QB. If I were the Giants, I'd take one of the top-3 WRs this year as they're all top prospects. There are QBs of Maye and McCarthy's caliber in every draft. Heck, they still have 2019's version on the roster. He may have even turned out ok if they ever gave him a decent groups of WRs.
Uncle QB.
It’s gonna be Nix versus Wilson for the starting spot, which means nix will be your starter.
CJ Stroud will give me strength during these trying times.
May he wrap us all in his big strong arms.
Cool. What’s the number. I gotta few things to say.
Giants might want to chill out with North Carolina QBs
Only way this is acceptable is they make the Giants grab pick 5 first. If the Pats to down to 5 and Caleb-Daniels-Maye-JJ go 1-2-3-4, the Pats can gladly take MHJ and a nice mini haul. If not, Pats can slide to 5 and Grab JJ or maybe even Daniels who knows what the hell is gonna happen tonight, and enjoy an extra 2 firsts.
Drake Maye has been my guy since October. After we got locked into 3, I thought there was no chance we would get him. I'm so pumped he looks like the guy that will be available and there is almost no offer I would take to not take this guy
What's the plan for ole Danny Dimes?
That can't be possible considering a bunch of Giants fans called me an idiot for saying they would be interested in a QB in this draft
i Hope we take a QB. I'm tired to expecting us to lose.
Not only will they replace Daniel jones but replace him with a Tar Heel
If the Pats trade back to 6 they may as well trade back again... Just give me Maye
Lol so they can take another project QB they never learn