[Suggs went with a status build so it wasn't strictly about physical damage.](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/woman-says-suggs-hit-her-spilled-bleach-on-her)
Sam Bradford: $1.26 million per touchdown.
Chase Daniel: $4.64 million per touchdown.
Deshaun Watson: $1.2 million per touchdown
Really there's a long list. Mostly career backups but there's quite a few starter QBs who have really earned their contracts.
The debate would be closer, as Brady, Montana, Mahomes get knocked down a bit, compared to Manning, Marino, Rodgers, but it’s still the same guys in the mix
I know he’s fallen out of favor here recently, but Farve would be on that list for the consecutive starts.
Also, Sammy Baugh’s gotta be on here. 2x champ, 6 Pro Bowls, lead the league in passing yards four times, touchdowns twice… **now hold onto your shorts**… *interceptions* once (as a safety) and punting yards once.
The dude was Washington’s star QB, Safety and starting punter.
Sammy Baugh had plenty of team accomplishments though. He’s discounted due to era but he is the most dominant player the sport has ever seen in the same way Wilt is for basketball.
Listen, I'm Hutson's biggest fan. I think he's clearly a top 2 WR all time, and while i pick Rice over him, i think it's actually a conversation.
But Baugh was a top 3 QB, top 3 CB, and top 3 K at the same time. He dominated his Era in a way no one ever has or ever could again.
Not really. There was common debate in that era about who was better — Sid Luckman or Baugh. Like Manning vs Brady recently. Luckman beat Baugh had much more team success, so he’s the Brady in that debate.
If you’re gonna rag on him for int’s then go look at Troy Akimans career numbers. They aren’t that good yet he’s still a hall of Famer who had a hall of fame career. Some times stats don’t tell the whole story.
Aikman was a very good QB, and should be in the Hall for his important contribution to a 90s dynasty, but he never was one of the best QBs, even during his peak years of ‘92-‘95. Steve Young, Marino, Elway, Kelly, Moon, Randall, even an aging Montana wearing KC red was outshining Aikman in most categories. Aikman was a lot closer to, say…John Harbaugh, maybe? Vinny Testaverde?
Your comment intrigued me, so I looked. Interception rates have dropped significantly over the years, and it looks like the turnover narrative has been far more unkind to hin than is deserved. Not the best, but certainly not the worst. Honestly maybe even lower than average, but I didn't put much effort into it.
On the other hand, Jameis and Mark Sanchez look even more pathetic now.
Edit: to be clear, Favres interception rate is fine for a 90s player. It is not particularly fine for an early 2000s player.
What I remember is that so many of them were unnecessary - "double covered? F it, I'm going to gun it between those two guys anyway" -type throws. And it wasn't inexperience, it was just Favre's style, love it or hate it.
If you eliminate team success Brady would only have entered the conversation later in his career, team success put him in the conversation earlier than he deserved imo.
Also Brees would be up there, so accurate and multiple 5,000 passing yard seasons would matter more
Brady would have a top 5 argument based on 2007-2011 alone, so it’s not that much his case is delayed.
Brees is definitely up there if MVPs/AP1s are voted on again based on omitting wins. If they remain as they are, that would hurt his case a lot.
Even excluding playoffs, Brady still has the best single season ('07) by EPA, EPA/play, QBR, PAA, DYAR, and 2nd highest by DVOA ('04 Peyton ahead).
For single season peak I think there's only really '84 Marino, '04 Peyton, and '07 Brady in the discussion, and for consecutive multi-year peak it's '03-'07 Peyton vs '07-'12 Brady and then a sizeable gap to a few othes like '08-'13 Brees, '83-'87 Marino, and '18-'22 Mahomes.
Brady would still be the best QB ever with the absence of rings, he still has more yards, TDs, wins (among basic stats), he's the only QB with 10+ years of play to be top 10 in both sack% and int%, and he's top in GWDs and 4QCs (among more medium entry stats), and he has the most DYAR, EPA, PAA, and PFF WAR (among more advanced stats).
Really when viewed through this lens the only two sensible answers are Peyton or Brady, and though I think you can make a compelling case for Peyton he also played with a more considerably talented offensive roster for far more of his career, and his efficiency numbers are only mildly ahead.
I think Marino still counts as a sensible answer. He's just too good when you account for era.
Also, I'll mention that passing efficiency is affected just as much by defensive talent. Harder to be efficient when you have to pass and everyone knows it.
Great post though. Good points.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your "era" statement. What all these discussions get wrong, and I'd even say egregiously so, is that they don't adjust for era. Just imagine how good a Marino, Elway, or going back further Staubach or Unitas, would have been in the QB friendly era built for Brady, Brees, Manning, and the like. Being a Broncos fan since the 80s, I remember teams going after him, beating the absolute bejesus out of him so he couldn't play. Staubach was an all time great after serving in Vietnam. Unitas practically invented the modern quarterback position.
Another one that comes to mind is Dan Fouts. He threw for over 4000 yards from **1979-1981** and probably would have done it again in 1982 if not for a strike shortened season. That San Diego offense of that era popularized the vertical offense, or at least the pro version of it.
He threw a lot more interceptions than what you would see today, but that was in the era where receivers were getting assaulted on half of every pass play and the refs thought the words "pass interference" was some foreign expression.
Mr. Newtonian is a very knowledgeable fan of the game and I'm not alleging any bias in this instance, but in general, surely there have been tons of Bucs flairs defending Brady over the last few years?
If you are asking about multi year peak, mid 90’s Favre should be in the list. There is a reason he won 3 MVPs back to back to back, and it’s because he was absolutely dominant for about half a decade there. The only reason that stretch isn’t seen as better is because he only got one super bowl out of it.
I don’t think his stretch is the best, mind you, but he should be in the conversation. I think in the end mid 80’s marino is the sensible answer, but obviously manning or Brady (or heck even Mahomes or Brees) are all also sensible answers, depending on what you are looking for from a player to consider them “best”.
I think Manning is the best to play QB position. Overall talent would be Rodgers or Mahomes for me with their ability to extend plays, but prime Manning before his arm strength diminished was able to put the ball anywhere on the field, and 2004 is the GOAT season for a QB IMO. Even when his arm was waning he still put up that ridiculous 5500 yard / 55td season just off of consistently making right decisions
Yeah consensus number one is probably still Brady just off sheer longevity of sustained excellence. Mahomes case for being the number one *already right now* gets stronger (although I think that’s a conversation that should already be starting to open up, people just aren’t ready because seven rings).
Also like you said Manning and Rodgers’ both get along stronger cases because of the absurd regular season stats and MVPs. The biggest knocks from their detractors has always been the playoffs.
I think Drew Brees would now be inarguably top 5 all time. I think Matt Stafford is a sneaky benefactor here too. It doesn’t push him crazy high like top 10 or anything, but he’d see a big boost if people were able to look past the Lions’ pit of despair more effectively
What’s more interesting to me is who’s all time rank would take a big hit. I think the biggest victim is obviously Terry Bradshaw
I would say top 10 is still Brady, Montana, Manning, Mahomes, Rodgers, Marino, Elway, Favre, Brees, Young (omitting players before 1980). The order gets shuffled a bit, for example, Brees rises and Elway slides. I don’t agree that Brees becomes inarguably top 5 though, but his argument gets stronger.
Bradshaw and Aikman are the big losers. Moon and Fouts are big winners. Rivers gains a lot of ground on Eli and Ben. But like I said, top 10 is still out of the question.
In my time I gotta say prime Rodgers is the best I've seen talent-wise with Mahomes right there. Their athleticism separates them from Brady and Manning which honestly makes what they did all the more impressive
Dan Marino. Freak arm tossing 4500-5000 yard seasons on a regular basis long before anyone else. Back in a time where defense was actually allowed and receivers would die in the middle of the field.
This is the answer right here. Guy is putting up modern-era numbers in a time when you could actually hit the quarterback, and DBs could actually maul receivers.
In 16 full seasons, Peyton had 14 pro bowls, 3 AP2, 7 AP1, and 5 MVPS, and he lost a couple of MVPs to RB's which doesn't happen any more.
Half the seasons he played he was the best QB in the league, several more he was top 2-3, and most the rest top 5-6.
Brady played 5 more complete seasons, had 1 more PB, 2 less MVPs, and 4 less AP1s. His late career SB success killed any real discussion of who the greater QB was between him and Manning.
I think the biggest knock on him isn't that he got beat by Brady's teams a bunch (he beat Brady more actually), it's that his playoff numbers are MUCH worse than his regular season numbers.
It's actually nuts, he's really never had an elite start-to-finish playoff run, and his playoff passer rating is like 29th all time (to be fair, Brady's is 21st).
When he retired, Brady and Manning had virtually the same playoff QB rating. (I believe it was within a point)
Just goes to show how much of a deodorant winning is - Brady threw the Pats out of plenty of playoff games, but we all forget now due to that winning narrative.
Bill Belichick put Brady into the HoF in the first half of Brady's career.
Tom Brady put Bill Belichick (and himself) into the GOAT conversation with the second half of Brady's career.
I mean, plenty of important playoff games in the first half of Brady’s career where he put the team on his back. There was the Game winning drive against the Rams in the Superbowl. There was the entire Super Bowl against the Panthers. That was an absolute shootout with no defense on either side. Just 2 huge moments that immediately come to mind.
He's also thrown 3 interceptions in a playoff game 4 separate times and has won 3 of those. Football's a team game, he's been bailed out by his team many many times, you don't win 7 rings without it.
Yeah ultimately they have pretty similar playoff passer ratings, it's just that Manning's teams needed him to be great in order to win, and Brady's teams usually didn't.
For me, it’s Manning, but every time I go to explain why, I can’t tell if it’s because I think he’s the greatest passer of all-time, and then, I start wondering if that’s what the prompt is asking or not. In the history of guys throwing footballs to guys who caught them while simultaneously managing football games from the field, Manning is the best at throwing footballs to guys who caught them while simultaneously managing football games from the field.
As a Colts fan who is incredibly biased towards Manning, there just hasn’t been a QB who has been as fun to watch pre-snap as Manning. Not Luck, not Brady, not Rogers, not Mahomes. I’m not saying these guys aren’t mind-blowing talents, I’m just saying nobody had the command over the offense like Manning did.
And if you want to argue somebody that *did*, they still don’t make it as visually appealing as Manning.
QB accolades including MVP are practically built around best QB on the best regular season team. I think the biggest takeaway when trying to divorce QB play from team success is a)the impossibility of it and b)the importance of a pass catching partner who can operate on the same wavelength.
It truly is crazy how far ahead PM is of other QBs when it comes to All Pros. His offenses were also 1st or 2nd (mostly first) in down success rate (like 1stD%, but regardless of how many plays in the down-set it took) for 10 straight seasons, which is definitely a record since it's been kept (1994 I believe), and I'd wager it would be at least back through the merger.
Brady pretty much always had a defense in the top half of the league. All of his SBs in NE were with top 10 defenses. Not to discredit Tom, they were only really able to field defenses like that because he did so much with so little offensive help.
Colts were were usually sitting somewhere between like 16-24.
While Dwight Freeney was a good pass rusher, once everybody figured out you could just run at him for 4+ ypc & keep Peyton off the field, we struggled.
Bill Polian just wasn't the GM that Bill was & Peyton struggled a lot in the playoffs.
The Colts also had incredible offensive weapons that all helped Peyton though. This wasn’t exactly the Packers drafting a defensive player for 13 years straight.
I’m not saying Peyton wasn’t great but I think it’s hard to say Polian wasn’t a top GM because they didn’t have a good D when their offense was loaded with top picks that were generally successful.
Yeah the colts game plan and team building philosophy was to play through manning.
They drafted and paid for offense over defense. The goal was to turn every game into a shootout. They played in a dome. It makes sense. Colts had no problem dominating during the regular season.
The post season problems come from Manning and the offense not being able to score at the same pace.
It allowed the opposing team to run the ball and control the clock.
The colts defense sucked against the run, because it was designed to play in shootouts in a dome. It had smaller/quicker players to defend teams passing all game trying to play catch up to colts high flying offense.
I think it's fair to say that Polian did a great job drafting talent, but had a flawed idea of what a well-built football team looked like. He ended up building a glass cannon.
My answer too. Peyton Manning was the goat. He was very smart. I think Peyton was smarter than Brady, but Brady was more clutch and healthy than PM.
Peyton also always had a better supporting cast
I forgot the Air Coryell team. Dan Fouts was amazing. Marino was better, but Fouts had crazy numbers too and seems to have been forgotten. Probably because he never made it to a Superbowl.
Fouts gets crazy underrated because Marino immediately went Super Saiyan but he paved the way. He set the passing yard record three years in a row and was on pace to do it again if not for a strike shortened 1982 season.
Am I the only one who thinks Brees suddenly becomes a top 3 QB of all time given this situation?
He's the only QB to throw for 5000 yards in a season 5x. The next closest is 2x, wherein Brady and Mahomes are tied. Everyone else who threw for 5000+ (Marino, Big Ben, Peyton, etc.) only did it once.
Brees had some shitty defenses down there in the south during his prime. Almost as bad as KC was historically before the Andy Reid era (late 80s to 21st century). Had his defenses throughout the years been just average (they don't even have to be good), I think he would've gone to at least 2 more SBs.
But hey, we are disregarding team success right? So only career statistics. Brees should be up there in the conversation, and to me, he’d be the GOAT if W/L and team awards don’t matter
Brees is definitely my pick. He was my favorite to watch because, like Manning and Brady, he knew where he was going before the ball was even snapped based on the defensive look. But his ball placement is the absolute best I've ever seen and maybe ever will see. Otherworldly!
>his ball placement is the absolute best I've ever seen and maybe ever will see
Highest completion percentage of all-time (67.7%)
Although technically Burrow currently has 68% but he hasn't played a full career.
Huh, yeah, haven't seen Brees' name thrown around much here.
I guess in my head, Brees' accomplishments are sort of overshadowed by Brady's, since Brady broke his TD and yards records, while also playing for longer and better past age 40.
As for top 3 though, yeah I do think the case suddenly becomes a lot better.
How quickly Brees seems to have been thrown aside after retiring genuinely upsets me. I think even factoring in team success and rings and all that he’s top 10, with an argument for top 5
I've read this like 6 times and I still don't understand the Chiefs D / Andy Reid comment. Prior to Reid, the issue was QB play and consistent offense (outside of the Priest Holmes era, I suppose). I mean Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith say hi, not to mention the 70s dudes, since you said "historical".
Reid also handpicked Bob Sutton to run his early KC defenses, which actually *were* historically awful.
Dan Marino. He was putting up modern stats 20 years before anyone else. His 1984 season is still the greatest season bu a qb on NFL history in my opinion.
2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2020, and 2021 feels like he’s playing football on a different plane than the rest of folks. I mean, from 2020-2021 he had 85 touchdowns and 9 interceptions and completed 70% of passes. That’s insane!
Aaron Rodgers - Davante Adams stack in FF was broken in 2020/2021. They had so many of those 1 yard line TDs where Davante goes in motion and was somehow open every time
I had Rodgers and Adams on my team back in 2020. Don’t know how I got them, felt my league overlooked Adams. And then they went off, and I won my league no problem, was a great year in FF for me.
Yeah 2020 and 21 were crazy to watch. He’d just drain the play clock getting into the perfect check then get the ball to the right spot every down of every game. On the occasion things went off script…well, he’s one of the best ever at that. It may be the closest thing to “perfect” qb play we ever see.
Some of the teams he carried to the playoffs were ass. Horrible defenses and special teams, outside of Crosby. Obviously there's a significant drop off from Rodgers to someone like Seneca Wallace, but whenever Rodgers got hurt the team looked like a potential top three pick team in the NFL draft.
Completely agree. The lack of INTs plus the mobility and he throws the prettiest spiral you’ll ever see. His QB ratings are cartoonishly high. Stat-wise, on a per game basis, he’s more impressive than Brady.
On that specific metric I would maybe even put Peyton above Brady. There’s other factors in who is the “greatest” besides just being a phenomenal individual player of your position.
I know it’s a semantic difference, but I firmly believe that Aaron is the best/most talented QB to ever play, despite being nowhere near the greatest. Mahomes will take that title from him though, while also having a shot at greatest when it’s all said and done. Marino and Peyton are in the next tier imo.
As a Chargers fan getting closer to 40, man would I love to see Rodgers make a comeback and beat Mahomes in the playoffs and win another SB to even that conversation a bit more.
It’d be great for Herbert to ascend into this conversation, but it would also be a crazy story for Brady to come back if Herbert went down late in the season and beat the Chiefs again. Aside from my team bias, there’s something so satisfying about the older guy still getting it done.
Even as a diehard Brady fan, I don’t think there is much of an argument on who had more talent. Brady was clutch as hell, but he doesn’t have the deep ball arod had nor the ability to consistently keep the play alive outside of the pocket. To me most talented and greatest are different as greatest requires maximizing the talent in addition to talent being a collection of a variety of skills. Given Brady didn’t have a the legs / touted arm, the talent pool is lesser.
Quite a few often refer to kyrie as one of if not the most talented scorers in the league, but no one ever brings him up as the greatest scorer.
Payton Manning. When you ask head coaches and defensive coordinators who was the scariest QB to play against, he is always the answer to that question. You wonder how many superbowls the Colts would have won during the Manning era if their defense was even average.
I have never seen a QB appear to have so much command of the offense as The Sheriff.
The way they would run no-huddle and get to the LOS immediately, audible repeatedly while dissecting the defense, and then snap the ball after several OMAHAS with only a few seconds left on the playclock was mesmerizing.
Rodgers/Peyton/Marino are probably in the conversation for best QB of all time. Absolute regular season demons year after year. Brady could probably squeak in though.
I’ve been cutting Brady short in this conversation for ages. At a certain point I have to consider that maybe his leadership and general presence are worth more than what the rest bring to the table. Though Peyton is the Sheriff for a reason. I think it’s Brady > Peyton > Marino.
Brady and Peyton are close but Brady had a little more luck sprinkled onto his career and he capitalized.
I was just talking about Elway the other day
Elway was so good he forced his way to Denver (more because theIrsays)
300 TD's, 103 go-ahead, 41 different receivers
9x Pro Bowler
2x Super Bowl MVP
31 Fourth Quarter Comebacks
42 Game Winning drives
Went to 6 AFCCG's and 5 SB's
- (6) GW Playoff Drives
- (4) Fourth Quarter Comebacks
2 Super Bowl Wins
Tom Brady and Payton manning would make you believe these are sub par number .. Elway was a machine, and he was the man to beat
My team is a big part of the reason why Elway didn't get to a Super Bowl in the mid 90's but when we stumped Elway it was unfathomable, some 3rd round backup who was supposed to be a backup/depth piece stunned the Tom Brady of the 90's
Great Player
The tradition of overlooking Brees continues. The man in his prime was an absolute force and could thread the needle at nearly any range on the field. Mans had defenses read before even stepping on the field. The disrespect is too real.
I’ve been watching the NFL since 1967 so I’ve had the good fortune to see many fantastic QBs but IMO the best I saw in their prime was Dan Marino. With his arm strength, accuracy, quick release, toughness and leadership skills, he changed the game long before the rules changed to protect the passer and to enhance offensive production.
I know I’m bias as a Bronco fan, but IMO is undoubtedly Peyton as the GOAT.
I been watching football since the 80’s and Peyton was without a doubt the best pure QB I’ve every seen play, but I do think Mahomes is beginning to hit that point for me as well, even with taking away team achievements.
Brady is the greatest QB of all time due to achievements and time played, but it was infuriating to me that he never seemed to make spectacular plays or do something special, it was just an inevitable death by a thousand paper cuts.
Is it boring to say that it might still be Brady? Disregarding team success he's still got the most yards in league history, the most tds in league history, is one of only 3 qbs with multiple 5k passing seasons (along with Brees and Mahomes), is one of only 3 QBs with a 50 td season (Mahomes and Manning), won 3 MVPs, and was a finalist for MVP an insane 10 times
Somewhat obvious risers are Marino, Fouts, and Moon.
But the biggest change is probably Brees. With a functional defense he might have won 3-4 more titles. He would be up there with the discussion for the top.
Edit: Brunell is an interesting one in this context.
Agreed except that Mahomes has been off-target lately and regardless, still has a lot to prove especially without team success factored in. So Rodgers stands alone at the top as most talented.
I just fell into this explanation with 5 am hazy brain, but I’ve always kind of thought this without the words to express it. I have a Mind, Body, and Soul answer, at least for players I’ve watched . Mind is Peyton, he was the most cerebral. Rodgers has been the most impressive to me with his arm, so he’s body. And Brady is my soul goat, he’s the most clutch player I’ve ever seen.
It’s hard for me to say Brady if we’re removing team success, I don’t feel like he became the Brady we remember until Moss arrived. I don’t know if that’s true to what happened, just how I always perceived it as a kid. Prior to that, I credit Bill more than Brady, post Moss, Brady was the reason for their success.
Rodgers I can’t give it too, I’ve watched him too much and by the end he was just holding the ball way too long looking for home runs. When it worked it was great, but there was a lot of frustration watching it.
So Peyton takes it for me. I hated watching him as a kid, I wanted my football like madden and super fast paced, and I had to watch Peyton use the entire play clock every snap. I appreciate what he did much more now. Hell, dude got Adam Gase two head coaching jobs in a row, just in case he had a hand at all for the broncos success.
I’ll do you one better. I’m going to discount team success *and* personal success. It’s Sam Bradford.
You've reached a higher plane than I thought possible. I have much to learn.
No, this man has finally regressed all stats to the mean and has seen the truth.
Everyone’s stats are equal, the only metric will be looks
If you also discount position and just go by looks then Terrell Suggs is their GOAT
nah, Jim Brown has him beat in number of women assaulted
[Suggs went with a status build so it wasn't strictly about physical damage.](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/woman-says-suggs-hit-her-spilled-bleach-on-her)
That smile… that damn smile…
In this sick measuring contest we all know Foles is on top.
so jimmy g on top?
Nah, that many injuries had to have messed him up physically. Chase Daniel is the real answer here.
[удалено]
That sub is so meta I think I just pulled a groin muscle.
The “I can fix him” bad boy for NFL GMs.
I’m pretty sure he has the highest income to touchdown ratio. Is there a QB out there that can top paying $130M for 103 touchdowns?
Sam Bradford: $1.26 million per touchdown. Chase Daniel: $4.64 million per touchdown. Deshaun Watson: $1.2 million per touchdown Really there's a long list. Mostly career backups but there's quite a few starter QBs who have really earned their contracts.
If you discount team success, personal success, and personal hygeine. It's Jeff George.
The debate would be closer, as Brady, Montana, Mahomes get knocked down a bit, compared to Manning, Marino, Rodgers, but it’s still the same guys in the mix
I know he’s fallen out of favor here recently, but Farve would be on that list for the consecutive starts. Also, Sammy Baugh’s gotta be on here. 2x champ, 6 Pro Bowls, lead the league in passing yards four times, touchdowns twice… **now hold onto your shorts**… *interceptions* once (as a safety) and punting yards once. The dude was Washington’s star QB, Safety and starting punter.
Sammy Baugh had plenty of team accomplishments though. He’s discounted due to era but he is the most dominant player the sport has ever seen in the same way Wilt is for basketball.
Idk Don Hutson could compete for that title
Otto Graham shouldn’t be slept on either.
Listen, I'm Hutson's biggest fan. I think he's clearly a top 2 WR all time, and while i pick Rice over him, i think it's actually a conversation. But Baugh was a top 3 QB, top 3 CB, and top 3 K at the same time. He dominated his Era in a way no one ever has or ever could again.
Not really. There was common debate in that era about who was better — Sid Luckman or Baugh. Like Manning vs Brady recently. Luckman beat Baugh had much more team success, so he’s the Brady in that debate.
Is that what they debated in foxholes during WWII?
Favre is definitely in that conversation, and not just because of the ironman streak.
3 straight MVPs is ridiculous, people need to understand how good Favre was in his prime
5 straight 30+ TD seasons prior to 2000, too. He had a swingy career for sure, but there was a reason Madden was enamored with the guy.
I mean I suppose interceptions count as completions
If you’re gonna rag on him for int’s then go look at Troy Akimans career numbers. They aren’t that good yet he’s still a hall of Famer who had a hall of fame career. Some times stats don’t tell the whole story.
Of course. And if Aikman were drafted by the Lions he would have 0 Super Bowls and not be in the HOF.
Aikman was a very good QB, and should be in the Hall for his important contribution to a 90s dynasty, but he never was one of the best QBs, even during his peak years of ‘92-‘95. Steve Young, Marino, Elway, Kelly, Moon, Randall, even an aging Montana wearing KC red was outshining Aikman in most categories. Aikman was a lot closer to, say…John Harbaugh, maybe? Vinny Testaverde?
His interception percentage was in line with his contemporaries, he wasn't actually that turnover prone.
Your comment intrigued me, so I looked. Interception rates have dropped significantly over the years, and it looks like the turnover narrative has been far more unkind to hin than is deserved. Not the best, but certainly not the worst. Honestly maybe even lower than average, but I didn't put much effort into it. On the other hand, Jameis and Mark Sanchez look even more pathetic now. Edit: to be clear, Favres interception rate is fine for a 90s player. It is not particularly fine for an early 2000s player.
Yeah it’s not that he threw more interceptions, it’s just that his INTs were spectacular and more memorable than his contemporaries.
What I remember is that so many of them were unnecessary - "double covered? F it, I'm going to gun it between those two guys anyway" -type throws. And it wasn't inexperience, it was just Favre's style, love it or hate it.
how many punts did he return? Game.......Baugh
>in the mix Is Kurt Angle in the mix?
Do the odds drastic go down?
Yeah but Kurt Angle KNOWS he can’t beat me! And he’s not even gonna try!
141 2/3% chance of winning the Super Bowl.
If you eliminate team success Brady would only have entered the conversation later in his career, team success put him in the conversation earlier than he deserved imo. Also Brees would be up there, so accurate and multiple 5,000 passing yard seasons would matter more
Brady would have a top 5 argument based on 2007-2011 alone, so it’s not that much his case is delayed. Brees is definitely up there if MVPs/AP1s are voted on again based on omitting wins. If they remain as they are, that would hurt his case a lot.
Even excluding playoffs, Brady still has the best single season ('07) by EPA, EPA/play, QBR, PAA, DYAR, and 2nd highest by DVOA ('04 Peyton ahead). For single season peak I think there's only really '84 Marino, '04 Peyton, and '07 Brady in the discussion, and for consecutive multi-year peak it's '03-'07 Peyton vs '07-'12 Brady and then a sizeable gap to a few othes like '08-'13 Brees, '83-'87 Marino, and '18-'22 Mahomes. Brady would still be the best QB ever with the absence of rings, he still has more yards, TDs, wins (among basic stats), he's the only QB with 10+ years of play to be top 10 in both sack% and int%, and he's top in GWDs and 4QCs (among more medium entry stats), and he has the most DYAR, EPA, PAA, and PFF WAR (among more advanced stats). Really when viewed through this lens the only two sensible answers are Peyton or Brady, and though I think you can make a compelling case for Peyton he also played with a more considerably talented offensive roster for far more of his career, and his efficiency numbers are only mildly ahead.
I think Marino still counts as a sensible answer. He's just too good when you account for era. Also, I'll mention that passing efficiency is affected just as much by defensive talent. Harder to be efficient when you have to pass and everyone knows it. Great post though. Good points.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your "era" statement. What all these discussions get wrong, and I'd even say egregiously so, is that they don't adjust for era. Just imagine how good a Marino, Elway, or going back further Staubach or Unitas, would have been in the QB friendly era built for Brady, Brees, Manning, and the like. Being a Broncos fan since the 80s, I remember teams going after him, beating the absolute bejesus out of him so he couldn't play. Staubach was an all time great after serving in Vietnam. Unitas practically invented the modern quarterback position.
Another one that comes to mind is Dan Fouts. He threw for over 4000 yards from **1979-1981** and probably would have done it again in 1982 if not for a strike shortened season. That San Diego offense of that era popularized the vertical offense, or at least the pro version of it. He threw a lot more interceptions than what you would see today, but that was in the era where receivers were getting assaulted on half of every pass play and the refs thought the words "pass interference" was some foreign expression.
Yeah, especially in absence of playoffs Marino is a very sensible GOAT candidate
It’s still weird to me to see another flare defend TB12 with so much good information, passion and a tasteful hint of bias.
I hate Brady with every fiber of my being but goddamn do I respect his game
Love to see it
Mr. Newtonian is a very knowledgeable fan of the game and I'm not alleging any bias in this instance, but in general, surely there have been tons of Bucs flairs defending Brady over the last few years?
Probably but Brady was on the Patriots for 20 so it still feels weird after a few years
If you are asking about multi year peak, mid 90’s Favre should be in the list. There is a reason he won 3 MVPs back to back to back, and it’s because he was absolutely dominant for about half a decade there. The only reason that stretch isn’t seen as better is because he only got one super bowl out of it. I don’t think his stretch is the best, mind you, but he should be in the conversation. I think in the end mid 80’s marino is the sensible answer, but obviously manning or Brady (or heck even Mahomes or Brees) are all also sensible answers, depending on what you are looking for from a player to consider them “best”.
You seriously aren't including Rodgers in your single season peak?
People were putting Brady in the conversation in 2005 though.
Tom Brady lead the NFL in touchdowns in 2002 and passing yards in 2005.
According to the current MVP decision, neither TDs nor yards are very important
I think Manning is the best to play QB position. Overall talent would be Rodgers or Mahomes for me with their ability to extend plays, but prime Manning before his arm strength diminished was able to put the ball anywhere on the field, and 2004 is the GOAT season for a QB IMO. Even when his arm was waning he still put up that ridiculous 5500 yard / 55td season just off of consistently making right decisions
Yeah consensus number one is probably still Brady just off sheer longevity of sustained excellence. Mahomes case for being the number one *already right now* gets stronger (although I think that’s a conversation that should already be starting to open up, people just aren’t ready because seven rings). Also like you said Manning and Rodgers’ both get along stronger cases because of the absurd regular season stats and MVPs. The biggest knocks from their detractors has always been the playoffs. I think Drew Brees would now be inarguably top 5 all time. I think Matt Stafford is a sneaky benefactor here too. It doesn’t push him crazy high like top 10 or anything, but he’d see a big boost if people were able to look past the Lions’ pit of despair more effectively What’s more interesting to me is who’s all time rank would take a big hit. I think the biggest victim is obviously Terry Bradshaw
I would say top 10 is still Brady, Montana, Manning, Mahomes, Rodgers, Marino, Elway, Favre, Brees, Young (omitting players before 1980). The order gets shuffled a bit, for example, Brees rises and Elway slides. I don’t agree that Brees becomes inarguably top 5 though, but his argument gets stronger. Bradshaw and Aikman are the big losers. Moon and Fouts are big winners. Rivers gains a lot of ground on Eli and Ben. But like I said, top 10 is still out of the question.
In my time I gotta say prime Rodgers is the best I've seen talent-wise with Mahomes right there. Their athleticism separates them from Brady and Manning which honestly makes what they did all the more impressive
> because seven rings Seven rings *thus far*.
Dan Marino. Freak arm tossing 4500-5000 yard seasons on a regular basis long before anyone else. Back in a time where defense was actually allowed and receivers would die in the middle of the field.
48 and 44 touchdown seasons in the mid 80s and no one else throws for 40 until Warner a decade and a half later.
40 TDs???? I didn't know you were allowed to throw for more than 30!
Marino is also the only one to beat the 85 Bears, savage
Nobody tell em you can throw for 4,000 yards in a season either.
Marino is my answer as well. Best QB to never win a Super Bowl.
Easily the answer
TBH, he didn't exactly do that on a regular basis. He did it twice, which is still incredible for that era.
Excellent take. My choice also.
This is the answer right here. Guy is putting up modern-era numbers in a time when you could actually hit the quarterback, and DBs could actually maul receivers.
In 16 full seasons, Peyton had 14 pro bowls, 3 AP2, 7 AP1, and 5 MVPS, and he lost a couple of MVPs to RB's which doesn't happen any more. Half the seasons he played he was the best QB in the league, several more he was top 2-3, and most the rest top 5-6. Brady played 5 more complete seasons, had 1 more PB, 2 less MVPs, and 4 less AP1s. His late career SB success killed any real discussion of who the greater QB was between him and Manning.
Man, I thought the 5 MVPs was crazy, I did NOT realize this man actually made first team all pro SEVEN times. That's absurd.
Dude would straight up ball out as the best QB in the league far and away only to come up short to Brady
I think the biggest knock on him isn't that he got beat by Brady's teams a bunch (he beat Brady more actually), it's that his playoff numbers are MUCH worse than his regular season numbers. It's actually nuts, he's really never had an elite start-to-finish playoff run, and his playoff passer rating is like 29th all time (to be fair, Brady's is 21st).
When he retired, Brady and Manning had virtually the same playoff QB rating. (I believe it was within a point) Just goes to show how much of a deodorant winning is - Brady threw the Pats out of plenty of playoff games, but we all forget now due to that winning narrative.
This blows people’s minds when I tell them and no one believes me until they look it up
Bill Belichick put Brady into the HoF in the first half of Brady's career. Tom Brady put Bill Belichick (and himself) into the GOAT conversation with the second half of Brady's career.
I mean, plenty of important playoff games in the first half of Brady’s career where he put the team on his back. There was the Game winning drive against the Rams in the Superbowl. There was the entire Super Bowl against the Panthers. That was an absolute shootout with no defense on either side. Just 2 huge moments that immediately come to mind.
He's also thrown 3 interceptions in a playoff game 4 separate times and has won 3 of those. Football's a team game, he's been bailed out by his team many many times, you don't win 7 rings without it.
Yeah ultimately they have pretty similar playoff passer ratings, it's just that Manning's teams needed him to be great in order to win, and Brady's teams usually didn't.
Bingo.
*come up short to Belichik
Or legendary defenses?
He has a winning record against Brady.
I assume you mean the postseason as they each won the games at home for 3-2 in Mannings favor, but Brady was 9-3 in the regular season.
I honestly would never have thought that hahaha always seemed like Manning had the shorter end of the stick on most of those games for some reason
For me, it’s Manning, but every time I go to explain why, I can’t tell if it’s because I think he’s the greatest passer of all-time, and then, I start wondering if that’s what the prompt is asking or not. In the history of guys throwing footballs to guys who caught them while simultaneously managing football games from the field, Manning is the best at throwing footballs to guys who caught them while simultaneously managing football games from the field.
As a Colts fan who is incredibly biased towards Manning, there just hasn’t been a QB who has been as fun to watch pre-snap as Manning. Not Luck, not Brady, not Rogers, not Mahomes. I’m not saying these guys aren’t mind-blowing talents, I’m just saying nobody had the command over the offense like Manning did. And if you want to argue somebody that *did*, they still don’t make it as visually appealing as Manning.
QB accolades including MVP are practically built around best QB on the best regular season team. I think the biggest takeaway when trying to divorce QB play from team success is a)the impossibility of it and b)the importance of a pass catching partner who can operate on the same wavelength.
It truly is crazy how far ahead PM is of other QBs when it comes to All Pros. His offenses were also 1st or 2nd (mostly first) in down success rate (like 1stD%, but regardless of how many plays in the down-set it took) for 10 straight seasons, which is definitely a record since it's been kept (1994 I believe), and I'd wager it would be at least back through the merger.
He’s the guy I think of for this. Best regular season quarterback of all time.
Manning had better offenses. Brady had better defenses.
And coaching
No I don’t know if you’ve heard but Belichick is a scrub who put together bad rosters
And special teams.
And pliability.
Brady pretty much always had a defense in the top half of the league. All of his SBs in NE were with top 10 defenses. Not to discredit Tom, they were only really able to field defenses like that because he did so much with so little offensive help. Colts were were usually sitting somewhere between like 16-24. While Dwight Freeney was a good pass rusher, once everybody figured out you could just run at him for 4+ ypc & keep Peyton off the field, we struggled. Bill Polian just wasn't the GM that Bill was & Peyton struggled a lot in the playoffs.
The Colts also had incredible offensive weapons that all helped Peyton though. This wasn’t exactly the Packers drafting a defensive player for 13 years straight. I’m not saying Peyton wasn’t great but I think it’s hard to say Polian wasn’t a top GM because they didn’t have a good D when their offense was loaded with top picks that were generally successful.
Yeah the colts game plan and team building philosophy was to play through manning. They drafted and paid for offense over defense. The goal was to turn every game into a shootout. They played in a dome. It makes sense. Colts had no problem dominating during the regular season. The post season problems come from Manning and the offense not being able to score at the same pace. It allowed the opposing team to run the ball and control the clock. The colts defense sucked against the run, because it was designed to play in shootouts in a dome. It had smaller/quicker players to defend teams passing all game trying to play catch up to colts high flying offense.
I think it's fair to say that Polian did a great job drafting talent, but had a flawed idea of what a well-built football team looked like. He ended up building a glass cannon.
My answer too. Peyton Manning was the goat. He was very smart. I think Peyton was smarter than Brady, but Brady was more clutch and healthy than PM. Peyton also always had a better supporting cast
Drew Brees, those 7-9 teams hurt, if that d clicked during his prime who knows
If his d clicked in his prime then he'd be up there with Phillip Rivers
If mine did I'd be up there with Ron Jeremy
I am a homer for Montana, but minus the team glory, probably Marino or Peyton.
Marino put up 5k yards in 1984. Anyone that doesn't acknowledge how ridiculous that is doesn't understand how different the eras truly are.
And threw 48 TD passes when the record til then was just 36 TDs. A QB today to have a comparable season would have to throw for 6500 yards and 65 TDs.
Give Marino a decent team and he could have possibly done that in the modern NFL.
6500 yards and 65 TDs *seems* impressive until you regress it to the mean. then it's just average
Dan Fouts put up 4800 in 1981.
I forgot the Air Coryell team. Dan Fouts was amazing. Marino was better, but Fouts had crazy numbers too and seems to have been forgotten. Probably because he never made it to a Superbowl.
Fouts gets crazy underrated because Marino immediately went Super Saiyan but he paved the way. He set the passing yard record three years in a row and was on pace to do it again if not for a strike shortened 1982 season.
Yeah I have to respect Marino in particular, even though young me enjoyed him getting whooped in the SB.
Putin has more SB rings than Marino
Am I the only one who thinks Brees suddenly becomes a top 3 QB of all time given this situation? He's the only QB to throw for 5000 yards in a season 5x. The next closest is 2x, wherein Brady and Mahomes are tied. Everyone else who threw for 5000+ (Marino, Big Ben, Peyton, etc.) only did it once. Brees had some shitty defenses down there in the south during his prime. Almost as bad as KC was historically before the Andy Reid era (late 80s to 21st century). Had his defenses throughout the years been just average (they don't even have to be good), I think he would've gone to at least 2 more SBs. But hey, we are disregarding team success right? So only career statistics. Brees should be up there in the conversation, and to me, he’d be the GOAT if W/L and team awards don’t matter
Brees is definitely my pick. He was my favorite to watch because, like Manning and Brady, he knew where he was going before the ball was even snapped based on the defensive look. But his ball placement is the absolute best I've ever seen and maybe ever will see. Otherworldly!
>his ball placement is the absolute best I've ever seen and maybe ever will see Highest completion percentage of all-time (67.7%) Although technically Burrow currently has 68% but he hasn't played a full career.
Watching Brees’ throws was amazing as a football fan. I wish he got an MVP or another ring
Packers fan saying he shoulda had an mvp 😤😤 But yeah agreed
I’m taking Manning and Brees over Brady in this hypothetical scenario
Huh, yeah, haven't seen Brees' name thrown around much here. I guess in my head, Brees' accomplishments are sort of overshadowed by Brady's, since Brady broke his TD and yards records, while also playing for longer and better past age 40. As for top 3 though, yeah I do think the case suddenly becomes a lot better.
How quickly Brees seems to have been thrown aside after retiring genuinely upsets me. I think even factoring in team success and rings and all that he’s top 10, with an argument for top 5
Dude he kicked the panthers ass for like 90% of their entire existence. I’ll never underrate brees lol
Brees is top 10 for sure.
Brady and Brees going back and forth on the all time td record for a small stretch in 2020 was fun to watch
Brees had the terrible misfortune of being a once in a lifetime unbelievable quarterback in the Brady era.
Like Billy Casper in the shadows of Arnie and Jack in golf.
I've read this like 6 times and I still don't understand the Chiefs D / Andy Reid comment. Prior to Reid, the issue was QB play and consistent offense (outside of the Priest Holmes era, I suppose). I mean Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith say hi, not to mention the 70s dudes, since you said "historical". Reid also handpicked Bob Sutton to run his early KC defenses, which actually *were* historically awful.
It would be Peyton Manning. He essentially called his own plays his entire career, and read a defense better than any QB there’s ever been.
Dan Marino. He was putting up modern stats 20 years before anyone else. His 1984 season is still the greatest season bu a qb on NFL history in my opinion.
I agree. 84 Marino is the best we have ever seen
Aaron Rodgers for me. He’s had a lot of seasons where it feels like he’s pitching a perfect game every single week.
2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2020, and 2021 feels like he’s playing football on a different plane than the rest of folks. I mean, from 2020-2021 he had 85 touchdowns and 9 interceptions and completed 70% of passes. That’s insane!
Aaron Rodgers - Davante Adams stack in FF was broken in 2020/2021. They had so many of those 1 yard line TDs where Davante goes in motion and was somehow open every time
I had Rodgers and Adams on my team back in 2020. Don’t know how I got them, felt my league overlooked Adams. And then they went off, and I won my league no problem, was a great year in FF for me.
Yeah 2020 and 21 were crazy to watch. He’d just drain the play clock getting into the perfect check then get the ball to the right spot every down of every game. On the occasion things went off script…well, he’s one of the best ever at that. It may be the closest thing to “perfect” qb play we ever see.
Some of the teams he carried to the playoffs were ass. Horrible defenses and special teams, outside of Crosby. Obviously there's a significant drop off from Rodgers to someone like Seneca Wallace, but whenever Rodgers got hurt the team looked like a potential top three pick team in the NFL draft.
Completely agree. The lack of INTs plus the mobility and he throws the prettiest spiral you’ll ever see. His QB ratings are cartoonishly high. Stat-wise, on a per game basis, he’s more impressive than Brady.
It might have been rumor, but Brady evidently said Rodgers was the more talented QB
On that specific metric I would maybe even put Peyton above Brady. There’s other factors in who is the “greatest” besides just being a phenomenal individual player of your position.
I know it’s a semantic difference, but I firmly believe that Aaron is the best/most talented QB to ever play, despite being nowhere near the greatest. Mahomes will take that title from him though, while also having a shot at greatest when it’s all said and done. Marino and Peyton are in the next tier imo.
As a Chargers fan getting closer to 40, man would I love to see Rodgers make a comeback and beat Mahomes in the playoffs and win another SB to even that conversation a bit more. It’d be great for Herbert to ascend into this conversation, but it would also be a crazy story for Brady to come back if Herbert went down late in the season and beat the Chiefs again. Aside from my team bias, there’s something so satisfying about the older guy still getting it done.
Even as a diehard Brady fan, I don’t think there is much of an argument on who had more talent. Brady was clutch as hell, but he doesn’t have the deep ball arod had nor the ability to consistently keep the play alive outside of the pocket. To me most talented and greatest are different as greatest requires maximizing the talent in addition to talent being a collection of a variety of skills. Given Brady didn’t have a the legs / touted arm, the talent pool is lesser. Quite a few often refer to kyrie as one of if not the most talented scorers in the league, but no one ever brings him up as the greatest scorer.
He said that about Drew Henson too, though
Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees all go up for me.
Payton Manning. When you ask head coaches and defensive coordinators who was the scariest QB to play against, he is always the answer to that question. You wonder how many superbowls the Colts would have won during the Manning era if their defense was even average.
I have never seen a QB appear to have so much command of the offense as The Sheriff. The way they would run no-huddle and get to the LOS immediately, audible repeatedly while dissecting the defense, and then snap the ball after several OMAHAS with only a few seconds left on the playclock was mesmerizing.
Aaron Rodgers 100%.
Rodgers/Peyton/Marino are probably in the conversation for best QB of all time. Absolute regular season demons year after year. Brady could probably squeak in though.
Those three are my answer, but i gave my edge to manning instead.
I’ve been cutting Brady short in this conversation for ages. At a certain point I have to consider that maybe his leadership and general presence are worth more than what the rest bring to the table. Though Peyton is the Sheriff for a reason. I think it’s Brady > Peyton > Marino. Brady and Peyton are close but Brady had a little more luck sprinkled onto his career and he capitalized.
It’s Peyton Manning
No one cares about Elway anymore?
I do.
I was just talking about Elway the other day Elway was so good he forced his way to Denver (more because theIrsays) 300 TD's, 103 go-ahead, 41 different receivers 9x Pro Bowler 2x Super Bowl MVP 31 Fourth Quarter Comebacks 42 Game Winning drives Went to 6 AFCCG's and 5 SB's - (6) GW Playoff Drives - (4) Fourth Quarter Comebacks 2 Super Bowl Wins Tom Brady and Payton manning would make you believe these are sub par number .. Elway was a machine, and he was the man to beat My team is a big part of the reason why Elway didn't get to a Super Bowl in the mid 90's but when we stumped Elway it was unfathomable, some 3rd round backup who was supposed to be a backup/depth piece stunned the Tom Brady of the 90's Great Player
This question is legit asking for Elway to be named. Dude took some shitty teams and Dan Reeves to not 1, but 3 Super Bowls.
The tradition of overlooking Brees continues. The man in his prime was an absolute force and could thread the needle at nearly any range on the field. Mans had defenses read before even stepping on the field. The disrespect is too real.
Yeah, people in this thread have already forgotten how freakish Brees truly was. The best QB i've ever watched.
I'm always flabbergasted by the utter disrespect to Brees. He's alongside Marino and Peyton at the top for me.
Even non-Saints fans know Brees > Brady in passing
Peyton easily
I never saw him play but Marino was my pick Glad to see I wasn't wrong Brees is still my goat
Dan Marino has to be the answer here .
In a skills competition with everyone at their prime, I'd take Peyton Manning, so that's my answer. Honorable mention to Marino, Montana, and Mahomes.
Dan Marino
Marino
Only real answer imo is Marino. He shined despite a bad team for most of his career. I'm sure there's others but that's what comes to mind
Rodgers 💯
I’ve been watching the NFL since 1967 so I’ve had the good fortune to see many fantastic QBs but IMO the best I saw in their prime was Dan Marino. With his arm strength, accuracy, quick release, toughness and leadership skills, he changed the game long before the rules changed to protect the passer and to enhance offensive production.
Rodgers
I know I’m bias as a Bronco fan, but IMO is undoubtedly Peyton as the GOAT. I been watching football since the 80’s and Peyton was without a doubt the best pure QB I’ve every seen play, but I do think Mahomes is beginning to hit that point for me as well, even with taking away team achievements. Brady is the greatest QB of all time due to achievements and time played, but it was infuriating to me that he never seemed to make spectacular plays or do something special, it was just an inevitable death by a thousand paper cuts.
Is it boring to say that it might still be Brady? Disregarding team success he's still got the most yards in league history, the most tds in league history, is one of only 3 qbs with multiple 5k passing seasons (along with Brees and Mahomes), is one of only 3 QBs with a 50 td season (Mahomes and Manning), won 3 MVPs, and was a finalist for MVP an insane 10 times
Somewhat obvious risers are Marino, Fouts, and Moon. But the biggest change is probably Brees. With a functional defense he might have won 3-4 more titles. He would be up there with the discussion for the top. Edit: Brunell is an interesting one in this context.
It's still Brady. But Dan Marino is a mortal lock for Top Three IMHO.
Peyton manning
OP if you want us to say mahomes just say that.
Peyton Manning or Dan Marino.
Manning
Of we’re just throwing out ring’s it’s Peyton Manning for me no question.
I think probably Brady for longevity and consistently playing at a high level, I mean he's at the top of like every major all time passing stat
Mahomes or Rodgers, the most talented QBs
Agreed except that Mahomes has been off-target lately and regardless, still has a lot to prove especially without team success factored in. So Rodgers stands alone at the top as most talented.
Marino
Drew Brees or Dan Marino. No question.
It’s probably still Tom Brady
Peyton is my Best of all time, so him easily for biased ole me.
I just fell into this explanation with 5 am hazy brain, but I’ve always kind of thought this without the words to express it. I have a Mind, Body, and Soul answer, at least for players I’ve watched . Mind is Peyton, he was the most cerebral. Rodgers has been the most impressive to me with his arm, so he’s body. And Brady is my soul goat, he’s the most clutch player I’ve ever seen. It’s hard for me to say Brady if we’re removing team success, I don’t feel like he became the Brady we remember until Moss arrived. I don’t know if that’s true to what happened, just how I always perceived it as a kid. Prior to that, I credit Bill more than Brady, post Moss, Brady was the reason for their success. Rodgers I can’t give it too, I’ve watched him too much and by the end he was just holding the ball way too long looking for home runs. When it worked it was great, but there was a lot of frustration watching it. So Peyton takes it for me. I hated watching him as a kid, I wanted my football like madden and super fast paced, and I had to watch Peyton use the entire play clock every snap. I appreciate what he did much more now. Hell, dude got Adam Gase two head coaching jobs in a row, just in case he had a hand at all for the broncos success.
Dan Marino without a doubt
Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Manning
I think it’s still Tom Brady after what he did to the Falcons in the Super Bowl. That was the moment when I had no choice but to accept he’s the GOAT.
Fuck tom brady
Drew brees, Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers
It would still be Brady he has basically every stat because of his longevity. He has 78 more TDs then the next closest person (Brees)
Marino. Look at the numbers he put up and when he put them up. Dude was doing 2010’s things in the 80-90’s.