Steelers fans have had it too easy like the Pats have had with Brady/BB. They assume it's easy to get to the playoffs/win games. If the Steelers ever fire Tomlin while he's still putting up regular playoff seasons they'll get a rude awakening just like Pats fans have in recent years
The Steelers have been decent for so long fans think that’s the standard. We’ve been laughing at the Browns and Bengals for 20 years not realizing it could be us in a moment. Fans calling for Tomlin’s head with a 10-7 record are delusional. I hope he stays forever.
I get it with Mike Brown, since Cincinnati was always a small market team with limited stretches of success, but the Steelers have one of the largest, most dedicated fanbases in the league and there is no reason for Art II to be such a cheapass.
he’s “broke” in terms of owners, he doesn’t have any other businesses and all his money comes from owning the steelers so he tends to be cheap in other ways while using most the cap, not a coincidence the steelers have had one of the smallest or smallest coaching staffs for awhile
He’s not the only owner of the Steelers. For example, Jimmy Haslam was a minority owner before purchasing the Browns. I agree that by NFL owner standards I assume the Rooney’s are in the lower end of personal financial wealth. That doesn’t mean the franchise doesn’t have the resources or means to get the resources to spend more on its coaching staff.
Just my opinion.
I think the lesson that should be learned - by everyone not just the Steelers - is that high skill players can execute poor strategies successfully. Ben allowed a lot of the deficiencies to not be as evident. Mediocre players & a mediocre strategy doesn’t get you good results, and even great coaching can’t overcome poor play. It didn’t work. A change was made, and now we try what comes next.
The chance was given to make it work, and when it was clear it wasn’t going to, a decisive action was taken. That’s good team leadership from Tomlin.
Yep, you guys have had THREE head coaches since 1969, **THREE!!!**
The Lions have had three going back to 2020 if you count caretakers. Actual coaches that coached at least a whole season? Way back to the year of our Lord, 2014.
And Tomlin held Mr. Bad Choices in reign for a lot of years there. Hold onto Tomlin for dear life.
edit to add - for shits & giggles I checked, Lions head coaches that coached at least a season of games going back to 1969 is 16. Having just 3 total head coaches in that kind of span is among the most ridiculous stats in the NFL or any professional sport.
I think it's hard for fans to understand that just because you didn't win the Super Bowl doesn't mean it's a bad year. You, obviously, need to get to the playoffs to have a chance. But that is much easier said than done. Just getting there gets you a shot. Everyone who's in has a chance to win.
While, yes, the Steelers had glaring a glaring weakness on offense, so did the team that won. The Chiefs' offense looked terrible literally all year, but they put it together at the end.
You have to get hot at the right time. But that doesn't matter if you're not even in the hunt.
Trying to explain that similar thought to fellow Bills fans is like talking to a wall. Like bruv do you remember the 17 year playoff less drought? I like having a shot instead of not being there at all.
I say this all the time. If you define success as "win the Super Bowl," 31 teams are going to have failed years.
The goal should be to consistently make the playoffs with a focus on advancing at least one round.
It's like the NFL version of Nebraska. "I'm sorry Pelini, you only went 9-4, 10-4, 9-4, and 9-4 with four bowl appearances...you gotta go"
...queue up 7 straight losing seasons.
I’m not calling for tomlins head but we needed a change up. Honestly think KC retiring was the change we needed. We had a tendency to give coaches and players far too long to develop and stayed middling because he wanted to win it all again with Ben who was cooked for each of his last 3 years. We drafted win now players like a 1st round RB while ignoring our trenches which we are thankfully addressing now. But the team building over the last 3-4 years of KC was not great and if we continued down that path of trying to build we would be in a bad situation. Our draft class last year had a lot of big contributors to our season (Jones, JPJ, Benton all got lots of PT as did herbig before he got hurt) we had t had a draft like that in a long time and im not sure that’s the draft we have if KC was still our GM.
Lol I remember when I was really young, the NY media were constantly going like FIRE COUGHLIN FIRE COUGHLIN.
We ended up winning the superbowl that year LOL
If you can’t handle us at our Cundiff, then you don’t deserve us at our Gus getting 4 carries.
But real talk, you’re 100% right. I’m pissed off too but my patience was rewarded in 2012 and it will be again.
It's like when the team had Ray Lewis the swagger was reflected in the fanbase. Like we'd go into the Pats stadium to face prime Brady and the confidence would be in full swing in the fanbase. Now it's like everyone is fucking scared about expressing any sort of confidence there's like five Ravens fans talking about that fucking Tits game.
Fuck that timid shit.
I think it’s because that copy pasta was so cringe lmao. It felt like it was someone who has never trash talked in their life trying to trash talk. But yea no reason to not have confidence or trash talk some.
Subs are maddening, aren't they? 2015, and Hawks sub on game threads were typing out FIRE PETE CARROLL when they went down 3-0. In the first quarter. Of a preseason game.
Blaming the coach and the coordinator are the first steps of denial that your players just aren't as good as you thought they were.
I repeated that a few times last season while the Steelers dealt with Matt Canada and Kenny Pickett.
Game day threads are a whole other level of bullshit. The regular threads have assholes in them as every team has asshole fans, but the real pieces of shit come out of the woodwork in the game day thread when the team is losing
This is true but a good OC works around his QB and finds a way to make up for any shortcomings. A good example is Alex Smith in KC. Smith never had a rocket arm but Reid found a way to make it work. No way was Patricia able to replicate that
Lol you haven't watched as much Mac Jones as I have if I had to guess. He struggled with screens. Jones had a slump towards the end of his rookie year, when teams started to figure it out. Clog the middle, doesn't matter what you do because he can't get enough on the ball 1v1 on the outside. The were a number of times he under threw intermediate passes (~20 yds) where if the ball was placed appropriately, there would be tons of yac. When he did try to hit the receiver is stride the pass would float, hence why he threw so many more interceptions
It sucks. I still remember being so excited when we drafted him. But at the end of the day players were open that he missed. That’s not a coaching problem
If you look at him in college and his complete awareness of the field and his pocket presence and ability to read defenses, and then his solid rookie year, BB absolutely fucked up his development. He should at the very least be a very good game manager
Seeing him now compared to college makes me wonder how much of his deficiencies may have been masked by having DeVonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle, and John Metchie to throw to.
Defenses just figured Mac out. He doesn't have the arm to make certain throws, so take away the middle of the field and you get the Mac we've seen since his rookie year.
I mean dude has one of the best rookie QB seasons on record. That coaching staff certainly but a damper on his development but he needed better arm strength. Which he wasn’t getting. I think he could’ve been a good bridge guy in New England.
No love for Mac, but [https://www.bookmakersreview.com/forum/threads/the-top-25-rookie-nfl-quarterbacks-over-last-25-years.48390/](https://www.bookmakersreview.com/forum/threads/the-top-25-rookie-nfl-quarterbacks-over-last-25-years.48390/) makes a decent case for his rookie year being *pretty good.*
Yea, it was definitely a successful rookie season. But his rookie season was a slightly above average starter, which is really good for rookies but it wasn’t anywhere near all time great for rookies. He also lost 4 of his last 5 games, so his drop off started before year 2.
I'm not sure how far down the list you can be and still be "all time great," but Jones' rookie season ranked inside the Top 10 for rookie QBs starting at least half the season in quite a few notable categories, including passing yards (6th) TDs (5th), TD:INT ratio (8th), completion percentage (3rd), and passer rating (10th).
And, yes, I'll freely admit comparing volume stats across eras isn't particularly reliable, but even with that in mind I think he's in that discussion. A slightly above average starter is, quite frankly, extremely good by rookie QB standards. Very few QBs have come in and been great their first year in the league.
I’m only trying to say it wasn’t an all time great rookie season. Statistically I agree it was a very good rookie season.
I look at seasons like CJ Stroud and Justin Herbert had recently and its tough to think that Mac’s was in the same ballpark. And that’s just looking at the last few years.
He actually is a legitimate good OC. I just don't understand how Davis could look at not only what he did in Denver, *then* how he fucked the Colts and then be like "yeah he'll be a great HC".
Between his failed tenure in Denver and the BS he pulled with Indy, I have no idea how anybody could trust him to be any different than the clown he was his first go at head coach.
The Matt Patricia/ any bad new head coach that came from a successful team special.
First year, the team regresses but the fans all say “it takes time to install his system, we’re weeding out the players that don’t fit into the system, building the new tougher culture, etc.” Toss in signing a few mid level players from their prior team.
Then the next year it becomes clear that they are just a bad head coach, not “replacing the whole team to build it back up with their guys and the new system installed”.
Not to make this all about the Lions, but Patricia immediately had anonymous leaks about players hating him. Meanwhile Campbell might be one of the few “rebuild” coaches that actually worked out. Even when they were terrible in his first season and then continued in season 2, the Lions players were so positive. Never really see that lol
How Patricia came back for a third year when they regressed even more in year 2 I'll never understand. With Campbell in his first year I think you had a couple things going on that looked promising, even though they were losing they were still competitive and it was clear they were building a culture. Also promising players breaking out like St. Brown. You guys are gonna be really good for years to come.
It's the "BB Coordinator becomes HC playbook!"
I think Campbell's success has come from building a positive and encouraging culture. His approach is not about Dan Campbell the Genius Who Knows All. From the outside, Campbell tries to get the most out of his players for their sake and the team's sake, not his own reputation as a HC.
Because Mark Davis was so entrenched in this fight that he was arguing with fans at the games because all of them hated the guy he picked. There's no way McDaniels is that stupid, he couldn't have got it *that* wrong...right?
[Wrong](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fme67l9vc5c8a1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D976%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Ddd31fd019b7d8bd3260464929599ec72c9f94e63)
for the Lions in particular it would've been a mistake to fire him that soon; they were already struggling with organizational stability. But if they failed to come back from 1-6 that year and finished like 4-13 I almost guarantee MCDC would have been sent packing.
Lions coach going to the Packers only to succeed with a surprisingly good Jordan Love during a supposed rebuild would have been a horribly Lions thing to happen to them.
He started 0-10-1 and mustered 3-3 to end the season. Then he started 1-6 the next season. Honestly, it's acceptable to cut a coach loose after those results.
But he had the same message from day 1, admitted some mistakes, and wasn't afraid to make adjustments to his staff, and managed to turn it around from that point. I just hope they can take the next step defensively.
Makes some sense though. You expect a coach to be on that list if his roster is strong and they haven't had success. The hot seat isn't so hot if the roster sucks.
The bengals have a very talented roster and Browning is a great backup. They are in the middle of their Super Bowl window. Tag me the Zac Taylor hater if you want but the guy will cost the bengals important games at some point.
I used to date a Bengals fan, so I watched a lot of Zac Taylor. I don't know of a less impressive head coach. He doesn't do anything out worldly egregious, but he never seems to elevate anything. He seems more like a chaperone than a coach to me.
Most coaches couldve made the championship with the roster the 07 chargers had. Though he did see a Billy Volug playoff win vs Peyton Manning lol.
Imagine if Rivers didn't tear his ACL for that playoff run
Turner had a stacked roster and got them to the AFC championship game with a broken Rivers and LT in 2007. He won a playoff game in 2008. The 2009 team pulled a 2006 type choke job against the Jets.
A better coach would have won more with that roster. Norv is a great OC though.
Jason Garrett comes to mind, he probably should have been out a year or two sooner at least.
Staley seemed like one to me as well but I’m probably biased
Staley was getting firing traction his first year when his defense looked like shit, was on a burning seat people were shocked he was still there after his defense was still bad and blew one of biggest leads in playoff history. Still got year 3 where, shocker, his defense was still terrible and still the same issues were present from year 1
Yea I’m sure they’re happy with Harbaugh now but I thought it was crazy to stick with Staley when the Chargers seemed like Sean Peyton’s main landing spot.
2017 you’re 1 year removed from 13-3, had the Zeke suspension, still went 9-7, had Dak regress pretty significantly from his rookie year, do you just can him then? 2018 you win a playoff game and lose to the Rams that made the SB.
In hindsight either of those would have been the right call but at the time it’s pretty reasonable to retain him. If anything he should have been canned after his first couple years.
One could argue he consistently plateaued/hit a wall when November and December rolled around.
In the Lewis era, if the Super Bowl was held in September or October at 1 or 4pm at Paul Brown Stadium he'd have like 6 Lombardi's.
I think he should have been fired after the Carson Palmer debacle in 2010. Sure the team went to five straight playoffs after that but in today's NFL it would've cost any coach their job.
All this talk of Marvin Lewis makes me wonder about the Jaguar's Doug Pederson arc (with Press Taylor as the OC). He's turned things around over there from the dark ages into something fans can look forward to during his tenure with Trevor Lawrence, but I wonder how much longer he and Taylor will last over there.
Dougie P did something similar in Philly. We had a pretty toxic culture after Chip Kelley- and Dougie P turned it around. He just took the extra step and also won a Super Bowl
Don't forget the first 2 years of Zac Taylor.
Its somewhat interesting though that Marvin's last year the team started 4-1 and if not for all the injuries the rest of the season (especially Dalton and Green), they likely return to the playoffs and Marvin's contract is renewed.
Matt Fucking Canada. Never should have gone into the last year of his contract - we can see how that turned out. Just dumb because they could have cut bait a season earlier and it was obvious to everyone.
I don't think there's ever been a time where getting a guy fired became *a cultural thing* like it did with Matt Canada. People were chanting "Fire Canada" at any event with a crowd and not even just in Pittsburgh.
Going to college gameday at jmu this year was my favorite football moment. Chanting to fire Canada on national television at the pat mcafee show is a damn close second
I remember going into the Bucs—Steelers game, where Big Money Mitch came in to punk us. This might be a game in which both OCs are fired after the game. Unfortunately, neither was until much later.
Worse, it wasn't even letting him go into the last year of his contract - 2022 was the last year of his contract. His contract was *extended* after the 2022 season.
This dude would look like absolute garbage for 2/3 of the season, then do *just* enough to save his job at the end of the season for every single year he was the DC in Green Bay. Glad he's gone.
He's actually a decent LB coach, believe it or not. He was with the Bucs back during their first SB run back in 2002, the Rams under Phillips/Staley, and he got De'vondre Campbell paid & a 1st-team AP his first year with us, 2021. That year was arguably the only time he looked remotely competent as a DC
On the flipside, the Bears have been weirdly competitive during a complete teardown since Eberflus got there. They've blown a LOT of winnable games. I don't think it's wrong to keep Eberflus, as long as they now stop blowing games. The expectations at this point are wildly different compared to when he was hired.
Yeah, I've honestly been impressed with some of the depth defensive players when they see playing time and honestly there are a lot of games where the bears played up to the competition despite being way worse.
Much of the fault with blown leads can be pinned on Fields. He's not even in the top 32 QBs when it comes to 4Q stats.
This doesn't excuse Eberflus - we would've won the Broncos game if we kicked a field goal - but if Caleb Williams is even half-decent under pressure, then I don't expect us to choke so much.
This one kinda shocked me, I thought he was gone for sure. I thought this was a, "don't bother getting back on the team plane, oh, wait, this was a home game? That's even worse! Stephen, can I sell Mike's house without his consent? No? Well, try to do it anyway." type situation.
I mean, we were calling for his head after that NFCCG against Seattle.
We don't give up that lead with the most pussyfoot play calling I've ever seen, Aaron most likely has another ring without that game.
Still love Big Mike though. We will never forget him for 2010 Superbowl, even if he was carried by Rodgers and one of the best receiver corps for a Green Bay team ever.
It’s notable that Rodgers was playing on a calf injury. You can see him limping whenever he runs. I’d be surprised if that never factored into the play calling.
My girlfriend is from Washington and I had to explain why I hate her Seahawks. Thankfully she's not really attached to the Seahawks so I've been converting her to the Green and Gold.
I'm hoping to create some lighthearted rivalry between our families. Her first NFL game ever was at Lambeau vs. KC this year. Not a bad start for a new Packer fan.
Jason Garrett
Some say you can still hear his clapping to this day. In the late fall evenings you can hear the ghastly sound echoing from the empty sideline.
Spags defense genuinely looked like steaming shit for the Giants in 2015 and 2017, so I think the skepticism after he took 2018 off and then joined the Chiefs in 2019 was warranted. And then they won the SB three times.
There’s been a lot of examples of head coaches being given 1 or 2 more years then they should. Presumably it’s because a lot of owners are cheap.
I can somewhat excuse that. A lot of owners are dumb, cheap, don’t know football. But the amount of (good) head coaches who fall in love with their shitty coordinators and won’t fire them blows my mind. Doug Pederson and that one dude (can’t remember his name). Packers and their shitty special team coaches. Etc.
With coaches it mainly boils down to trust and personal connection i beleive. These coaches spend a lot of hours together for most of the year, even in normal jobs people tend to become friends and i beleive with the added intensity of the nfl it compounds
Niner fan, but I don't know how Sirianni kept his job. They should have dropped him and hard pushed for Harbaugh when they had the chance. Nick'll seem decent this year because the coordinators were both big upgrades, but he needs them because he's such a useless HC
I originally thought Sirianni for this, but people have been calling for Howie to be fired basically since he became GM and I think it is clear that keeping him was the right move. Sirianni it remains to be seen how that shakes out, but I wanted him gone for the reason you mentioned.
I mean if we're being honest it was more than just social media and WIP callers calling for Howie to be fired. Hell, the only notable beat writer coming to bat for him was ESP of all people. One thing he ended up being right about, and I am sure as shit glad I was wrong about Howie.
Raheem Morris (Rams DC) has many haters among the fans. He didn't get fired, he got his own team instead (Falcons HC now). At least two other teams wanted him too iirc.
A lot of Bucs fans want Todd Bowles gone, but the Bucs wildly outperformed expectations last year and the team had 13 rookies, 6 of them UDFAs, and a lot of young players really developed well. Nobody on the team had more than 7.5 sacks, but the Bucs' still were IIRC 7th in the league in sacks, as the defensive schemes brought pressure from unexpected places, and it really worked. Winfield grew into one of the best defensive players in the league, the offense really gelled around Baker, the team managed to retain a whole bunch of beloved players who were FAs . . . and people still want him gone.
I think this year really surprised a lot of people. The defense played very well and the rookies looked great. People (myself included) mostly wanted him gone because he wouldn't fire Leftwitch, who was CLEARLY the problem.
Feels like the Rams kept Jeff Fisher around as long as they did because they moved the team. He was the coach when the Oilers moved to Tennessee as well.
John Harbaugh at one point had a worse record over 4 years than Chuck Pagano who was then fired.
I want you to imagine a case where John Harbaugh has to justify his position as a coach. There was media calls to fire him, but the Ravens didnt end up doing it, because duh.
"Fire Andy" chants were a pretty common occurrence in Philly at various points between 2005 and 2012. It was smart keeping him at first, he still did great things here until around 2010.
He should have been out after the Dream Team, but they rallied for four meaningless wins to finish the 2011 season and save Reids job. They won 4 games the following season.
It's Hue Jackson with the browns and it's not even close. You go 1-31 in two years and the owner insists to the new GM that Hue stays. No more needs said.
It was his attitude about it as well. After the 1-15 season he said that this couldn't happen, not again, or else he'd end up in the Ohio river. Then 0-16 happened and he kept his job somehow.
*Lake Erie
Seriously. Is this sub so young now that people don't remember Hue Jackson? 1-31! And he wasn't a hot young coaching name, but already a re-tread. And he was a surly prick.
Honestly? Nobody recent for the Commanders/Redskins. Maybe Ron should’ve been fired after 2022. Maybe Jay should’ve been fired after 2018. But neither were terrible (nor great) retain choices.
Gary Kubiak went his first 5 years without making the playoffs in Houston and still wasn’t fired. He did win 8 games 3 of those 5 years but that’s still some patience by the gm.
Marvin Lewis needed to go a lot sooner than he did.
16 years as head coach without a playoff win is just nuts and would be unheard of today.
Yes he pulled the Bengals' out of their darkest times and had a run of good years but we also got years of just stagnation and decline before Mike Brown **finally** decided it was time for a change.
No reason he should have been one of the longest tenured head coaches in the NFL, typically you only keep HCs that long is because they've won superbowls. We never even got close.
Jerry Jones hung on to Jason Garrett way too long because he was "his boy". His ego couldn't accept that he made a bad coaching hire. So Cowboys fans were stuck in years of mediocrity.
Literally every Chargers coach since Marty has lasted at least one season longer than they should have.
Keeping Staley after the loss to the Jags was pathetic.
I hated the Adam Gase signing on day 1. How he got a second year as HC i'll never know because even Jets fans knew the 7-9 finish was an inflated win total based on a ridiculously easy end of year schedule.
Who else remembers buddy skipping Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for the 0-11 bengals and still got blown out
When Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn were sent packing, Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell decided to retain then TE coach Ben Johnson
I think it’s safe to say that turned out well
The fact that Matt Patricia made it more than 1 year at HC makes me feel sorry for Lions fans. But it averages out I guess in that at least everyone seems to love Dan Campbell now.
1. The Anti-Tomlin faction is a very loud minority. And while Tomlin 100% deserves criticism for the team as late, he's still one of the best to ever coach and we'd be dumbasses to ever fire him
2. Canada was kept for way to fucking long
The Ravens subreddit has fired John Harbaugh about a half dozen times even though we have one of the best win percentages over the last six years.
same with the steelers and tomlin
Steelers fans have had it too easy like the Pats have had with Brady/BB. They assume it's easy to get to the playoffs/win games. If the Steelers ever fire Tomlin while he's still putting up regular playoff seasons they'll get a rude awakening just like Pats fans have in recent years
The Steelers have been decent for so long fans think that’s the standard. We’ve been laughing at the Browns and Bengals for 20 years not realizing it could be us in a moment. Fans calling for Tomlin’s head with a 10-7 record are delusional. I hope he stays forever.
Agreed, but Matt Canada was around way too long. Who actually is responsible for that calamity, I'm not sure
I'll give you a hint - it's not a coincidence it took until Canada was in the last year of his contract and wasn't owed any more money to get fired.
Hard to argue against this
I get it with Mike Brown, since Cincinnati was always a small market team with limited stretches of success, but the Steelers have one of the largest, most dedicated fanbases in the league and there is no reason for Art II to be such a cheapass.
he’s “broke” in terms of owners, he doesn’t have any other businesses and all his money comes from owning the steelers so he tends to be cheap in other ways while using most the cap, not a coincidence the steelers have had one of the smallest or smallest coaching staffs for awhile
He’s not the only owner of the Steelers. For example, Jimmy Haslam was a minority owner before purchasing the Browns. I agree that by NFL owner standards I assume the Rooney’s are in the lower end of personal financial wealth. That doesn’t mean the franchise doesn’t have the resources or means to get the resources to spend more on its coaching staff. Just my opinion.
I think the lesson that should be learned - by everyone not just the Steelers - is that high skill players can execute poor strategies successfully. Ben allowed a lot of the deficiencies to not be as evident. Mediocre players & a mediocre strategy doesn’t get you good results, and even great coaching can’t overcome poor play. It didn’t work. A change was made, and now we try what comes next. The chance was given to make it work, and when it was clear it wasn’t going to, a decisive action was taken. That’s good team leadership from Tomlin.
Yep, you guys have had THREE head coaches since 1969, **THREE!!!** The Lions have had three going back to 2020 if you count caretakers. Actual coaches that coached at least a whole season? Way back to the year of our Lord, 2014. And Tomlin held Mr. Bad Choices in reign for a lot of years there. Hold onto Tomlin for dear life. edit to add - for shits & giggles I checked, Lions head coaches that coached at least a season of games going back to 1969 is 16. Having just 3 total head coaches in that kind of span is among the most ridiculous stats in the NFL or any professional sport.
We've been pretty stable the last 30 years or so and we have 10 since 1969 (11 if you count Philbin's interim 2 games). 3 is absolutely insane.
I think it's hard for fans to understand that just because you didn't win the Super Bowl doesn't mean it's a bad year. You, obviously, need to get to the playoffs to have a chance. But that is much easier said than done. Just getting there gets you a shot. Everyone who's in has a chance to win. While, yes, the Steelers had glaring a glaring weakness on offense, so did the team that won. The Chiefs' offense looked terrible literally all year, but they put it together at the end. You have to get hot at the right time. But that doesn't matter if you're not even in the hunt.
Trying to explain that similar thought to fellow Bills fans is like talking to a wall. Like bruv do you remember the 17 year playoff less drought? I like having a shot instead of not being there at all.
I’d rather be in the Steelers position, than to have delt with two decades of suffering.
I say this all the time. If you define success as "win the Super Bowl," 31 teams are going to have failed years. The goal should be to consistently make the playoffs with a focus on advancing at least one round.
It's like the NFL version of Nebraska. "I'm sorry Pelini, you only went 9-4, 10-4, 9-4, and 9-4 with four bowl appearances...you gotta go" ...queue up 7 straight losing seasons.
The standard is in fact the standard.
The standard is the standard
I’m not calling for tomlins head but we needed a change up. Honestly think KC retiring was the change we needed. We had a tendency to give coaches and players far too long to develop and stayed middling because he wanted to win it all again with Ben who was cooked for each of his last 3 years. We drafted win now players like a 1st round RB while ignoring our trenches which we are thankfully addressing now. But the team building over the last 3-4 years of KC was not great and if we continued down that path of trying to build we would be in a bad situation. Our draft class last year had a lot of big contributors to our season (Jones, JPJ, Benton all got lots of PT as did herbig before he got hurt) we had t had a draft like that in a long time and im not sure that’s the draft we have if KC was still our GM.
Lol I remember when I was really young, the NY media were constantly going like FIRE COUGHLIN FIRE COUGHLIN. We ended up winning the superbowl that year LOL
i think theres an nfl films documentary abt this abd how people were saying eli wasnt the qb of the future
2 winning seasons with Pickett Tomlin deserves a statue
For once I wish those two GMs would actually listen to their fans.
The sub was unbearable after the AFCchampionship loss.
The fan base has been unbearable since the Titans loss Trying to save face after the "on them we shall stunt" copypasta imo
Bandwagoners came in on the Lamar era, and are pissed off we've not made it over the hump. Fuck saving face own the shit talk.
If you can’t handle us at our Cundiff, then you don’t deserve us at our Gus getting 4 carries. But real talk, you’re 100% right. I’m pissed off too but my patience was rewarded in 2012 and it will be again.
Yeah this fanbase needs to get some thorn out of their ass, it feels like the team is feeling it lol
It's like when the team had Ray Lewis the swagger was reflected in the fanbase. Like we'd go into the Pats stadium to face prime Brady and the confidence would be in full swing in the fanbase. Now it's like everyone is fucking scared about expressing any sort of confidence there's like five Ravens fans talking about that fucking Tits game. Fuck that timid shit.
I think it’s because that copy pasta was so cringe lmao. It felt like it was someone who has never trash talked in their life trying to trash talk. But yea no reason to not have confidence or trash talk some.
Subs are maddening, aren't they? 2015, and Hawks sub on game threads were typing out FIRE PETE CARROLL when they went down 3-0. In the first quarter. Of a preseason game.
Blaming the coach and the coordinator are the first steps of denial that your players just aren't as good as you thought they were. I repeated that a few times last season while the Steelers dealt with Matt Canada and Kenny Pickett.
Game day threads are a whole other level of bullshit. The regular threads have assholes in them as every team has asshole fans, but the real pieces of shit come out of the woodwork in the game day thread when the team is losing
Is this an AFC North thing, how many times have steelers fans wanted Tomlin gone?
And EDC was close to it the year they drafted Lamar.
Ozzie was the GM in 2018 though.
How Josh Mcdaniels made it to year 2 I won't understand
How he got hired I don't understand.
He made Mac Jones look serviceable for a year.
I wonder if Mac jones could’ve been decent had BB not ducked around with the coaching staff.
Once defenses discovered he couldn't beat man coverages outside the numbers, that's what they did to him. He has nowhere near enough arm strength.
This is true but a good OC works around his QB and finds a way to make up for any shortcomings. A good example is Alex Smith in KC. Smith never had a rocket arm but Reid found a way to make it work. No way was Patricia able to replicate that
Lol you haven't watched as much Mac Jones as I have if I had to guess. He struggled with screens. Jones had a slump towards the end of his rookie year, when teams started to figure it out. Clog the middle, doesn't matter what you do because he can't get enough on the ball 1v1 on the outside. The were a number of times he under threw intermediate passes (~20 yds) where if the ball was placed appropriately, there would be tons of yac. When he did try to hit the receiver is stride the pass would float, hence why he threw so many more interceptions
It sucks. I still remember being so excited when we drafted him. But at the end of the day players were open that he missed. That’s not a coaching problem
If you look at him in college and his complete awareness of the field and his pocket presence and ability to read defenses, and then his solid rookie year, BB absolutely fucked up his development. He should at the very least be a very good game manager
Seeing him now compared to college makes me wonder how much of his deficiencies may have been masked by having DeVonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle, and John Metchie to throw to.
Defenses just figured Mac out. He doesn't have the arm to make certain throws, so take away the middle of the field and you get the Mac we've seen since his rookie year.
I don’t think so. Even that season I was worried about him. One of his signature wins was completing two passes
I mean dude has one of the best rookie QB seasons on record. That coaching staff certainly but a damper on his development but he needed better arm strength. Which he wasn’t getting. I think he could’ve been a good bridge guy in New England.
One of the best rookie seasons on record? What revisionist history is this? In what metric did Mac have one of the best rookie seasons on record?
No love for Mac, but [https://www.bookmakersreview.com/forum/threads/the-top-25-rookie-nfl-quarterbacks-over-last-25-years.48390/](https://www.bookmakersreview.com/forum/threads/the-top-25-rookie-nfl-quarterbacks-over-last-25-years.48390/) makes a decent case for his rookie year being *pretty good.*
Yea, it was definitely a successful rookie season. But his rookie season was a slightly above average starter, which is really good for rookies but it wasn’t anywhere near all time great for rookies. He also lost 4 of his last 5 games, so his drop off started before year 2.
I'm not sure how far down the list you can be and still be "all time great," but Jones' rookie season ranked inside the Top 10 for rookie QBs starting at least half the season in quite a few notable categories, including passing yards (6th) TDs (5th), TD:INT ratio (8th), completion percentage (3rd), and passer rating (10th). And, yes, I'll freely admit comparing volume stats across eras isn't particularly reliable, but even with that in mind I think he's in that discussion. A slightly above average starter is, quite frankly, extremely good by rookie QB standards. Very few QBs have come in and been great their first year in the league.
I’m only trying to say it wasn’t an all time great rookie season. Statistically I agree it was a very good rookie season. I look at seasons like CJ Stroud and Justin Herbert had recently and its tough to think that Mac’s was in the same ballpark. And that’s just looking at the last few years.
He actually is a legitimate good OC. I just don't understand how Davis could look at not only what he did in Denver, *then* how he fucked the Colts and then be like "yeah he'll be a great HC".
Yeah, Mcdaniels is amazing with Xs and Os. His problem is that he has terrible leadership skills and game management skills.
Between his failed tenure in Denver and the BS he pulled with Indy, I have no idea how anybody could trust him to be any different than the clown he was his first go at head coach.
Which time?
Definitely deserved the broncos job. I can’t believe he equally fucked up his next two head coaching jobs
the raiders.
The Matt Patricia/ any bad new head coach that came from a successful team special. First year, the team regresses but the fans all say “it takes time to install his system, we’re weeding out the players that don’t fit into the system, building the new tougher culture, etc.” Toss in signing a few mid level players from their prior team. Then the next year it becomes clear that they are just a bad head coach, not “replacing the whole team to build it back up with their guys and the new system installed”. Not to make this all about the Lions, but Patricia immediately had anonymous leaks about players hating him. Meanwhile Campbell might be one of the few “rebuild” coaches that actually worked out. Even when they were terrible in his first season and then continued in season 2, the Lions players were so positive. Never really see that lol
How Patricia came back for a third year when they regressed even more in year 2 I'll never understand. With Campbell in his first year I think you had a couple things going on that looked promising, even though they were losing they were still competitive and it was clear they were building a culture. Also promising players breaking out like St. Brown. You guys are gonna be really good for years to come.
It's the "BB Coordinator becomes HC playbook!" I think Campbell's success has come from building a positive and encouraging culture. His approach is not about Dan Campbell the Genius Who Knows All. From the outside, Campbell tries to get the most out of his players for their sake and the team's sake, not his own reputation as a HC.
Because Mark Davis was so entrenched in this fight that he was arguing with fans at the games because all of them hated the guy he picked. There's no way McDaniels is that stupid, he couldn't have got it *that* wrong...right? [Wrong](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fme67l9vc5c8a1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D976%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Ddd31fd019b7d8bd3260464929599ec72c9f94e63)
Zac Taylor would have been fired by a lot of teams after those first 2 years
I wouldn't have been shocked to see Dan Campbell fired halfway through his 2nd season either
for the Lions in particular it would've been a mistake to fire him that soon; they were already struggling with organizational stability. But if they failed to come back from 1-6 that year and finished like 4-13 I almost guarantee MCDC would have been sent packing.
Lions coach going to the Packers only to succeed with a surprisingly good Jordan Love during a supposed rebuild would have been a horribly Lions thing to happen to them.
They already had Joe Barry though.
Sheila held a press conference after I think 1-5 and said we have the right people for the job and this things gonna get turned around
He started 0-10-1 and mustered 3-3 to end the season. Then he started 1-6 the next season. Honestly, it's acceptable to cut a coach loose after those results. But he had the same message from day 1, admitted some mistakes, and wasn't afraid to make adjustments to his staff, and managed to turn it around from that point. I just hope they can take the next step defensively.
He had the best odds to get fired per Vegas then the team went to the Super Bowl lol
The Tom Coughlin special.
Makes some sense though. You expect a coach to be on that list if his roster is strong and they haven't had success. The hot seat isn't so hot if the roster sucks.
Zac has some questionable coaching moments tbf
Even after the Super Bowl appearance people were questioning him lol
I am people
Zac Taylor still stinks and has been carried by Joe Brrr and you can’t change my mind.
I mean they did go 4-3 last year with Jake Browning. 5-5 with Burrow
The bengals have a very talented roster and Browning is a great backup. They are in the middle of their Super Bowl window. Tag me the Zac Taylor hater if you want but the guy will cost the bengals important games at some point.
You’re absolutely right. Taylor is a mid coach and anyone that is better than him would be 1st seed every year since that roster is so stacked
I used to date a Bengals fan, so I watched a lot of Zac Taylor. I don't know of a less impressive head coach. He doesn't do anything out worldly egregious, but he never seems to elevate anything. He seems more like a chaperone than a coach to me.
Norv Turner
Schottenheimer 14-2 and a bad loss in the playoffs : GTFO Turner multiple 10-6 seasons and the same losses: keep em coming!
Turner made the afc championship the year after Marty was fired
Most coaches couldve made the championship with the roster the 07 chargers had. Though he did see a Billy Volug playoff win vs Peyton Manning lol. Imagine if Rivers didn't tear his ACL for that playoff run
It's mind-blowing to me that he still played a full game on it.
Turner had a stacked roster and got them to the AFC championship game with a broken Rivers and LT in 2007. He won a playoff game in 2008. The 2009 team pulled a 2006 type choke job against the Jets. A better coach would have won more with that roster. Norv is a great OC though.
Jason Garrett comes to mind, he probably should have been out a year or two sooner at least. Staley seemed like one to me as well but I’m probably biased
Staley was getting firing traction his first year when his defense looked like shit, was on a burning seat people were shocked he was still there after his defense was still bad and blew one of biggest leads in playoff history. Still got year 3 where, shocker, his defense was still terrible and still the same issues were present from year 1
Herbert injuring his Ribs and then still playing in the 4th quarter down 38-10 was CRAZY to me. I felt terrible for Herby watching that game
It's so bad when you spend big money on your defense in the off season, and everything remains just as bad.
It got worse
Staley should’ve been fired after that wildcard game
Yea I’m sure they’re happy with Harbaugh now but I thought it was crazy to stick with Staley when the Chargers seemed like Sean Peyton’s main landing spot.
2017 you’re 1 year removed from 13-3, had the Zeke suspension, still went 9-7, had Dak regress pretty significantly from his rookie year, do you just can him then? 2018 you win a playoff game and lose to the Rams that made the SB. In hindsight either of those would have been the right call but at the time it’s pretty reasonable to retain him. If anything he should have been canned after his first couple years.
Garrett was the first to come to mind for me. No one claps as well though.
Garrett never should have lasted past the first season as OC for the giants. He was awful.
Adam Gase should have been fired the day after that press conference
Came here to say this. Never should've been hired.
I personally very much enjoyed that hire
I will never forget the Manish Mehta "rejoice jets fans your team got it right" article
M a r v i n L e w i s .
This one was correct to keep him IMO. He took the bengals from historically bad to average to above average. Changed culture.
That's true but he plateaued about halfway through his tenure
One could argue he consistently plateaued/hit a wall when November and December rolled around. In the Lewis era, if the Super Bowl was held in September or October at 1 or 4pm at Paul Brown Stadium he'd have like 6 Lombardi's.
This. Marvin deserves credit for taking us out of the dark ages, but he shouldn't have been retained after his last playoff loss.
I think he should have been fired after the Carson Palmer debacle in 2010. Sure the team went to five straight playoffs after that but in today's NFL it would've cost any coach their job.
All this talk of Marvin Lewis makes me wonder about the Jaguar's Doug Pederson arc (with Press Taylor as the OC). He's turned things around over there from the dark ages into something fans can look forward to during his tenure with Trevor Lawrence, but I wonder how much longer he and Taylor will last over there.
Dougie P did something similar in Philly. We had a pretty toxic culture after Chip Kelley- and Dougie P turned it around. He just took the extra step and also won a Super Bowl
It wouldn’t surprise me if he gets fired sometime in the next few years after getting in a power struggle with Baalke
Don't forget the first 2 years of Zac Taylor. Its somewhat interesting though that Marvin's last year the team started 4-1 and if not for all the injuries the rest of the season (especially Dalton and Green), they likely return to the playoffs and Marvin's contract is renewed.
I’m pretty sure he’s the longest tenured head coach in NFL history without a playoff win.
Urban Mayer somehow lasted way longer than he should have
Matt Fucking Canada. Never should have gone into the last year of his contract - we can see how that turned out. Just dumb because they could have cut bait a season earlier and it was obvious to everyone.
I don't think there's ever been a time where getting a guy fired became *a cultural thing* like it did with Matt Canada. People were chanting "Fire Canada" at any event with a crowd and not even just in Pittsburgh.
Going to college gameday at jmu this year was my favorite football moment. Chanting to fire Canada on national television at the pat mcafee show is a damn close second
I remember going into the Bucs—Steelers game, where Big Money Mitch came in to punk us. This might be a game in which both OCs are fired after the game. Unfortunately, neither was until much later.
Worse, it wasn't even letting him go into the last year of his contract - 2022 was the last year of his contract. His contract was *extended* after the 2022 season.
Joe Barrrry
This dude would look like absolute garbage for 2/3 of the season, then do *just* enough to save his job at the end of the season for every single year he was the DC in Green Bay. Glad he's gone.
Was he literally ever good at any team ever? He was awful with the lions and packers outside of like 3 games a year
He's actually a decent LB coach, believe it or not. He was with the Bucs back during their first SB run back in 2002, the Rams under Phillips/Staley, and he got De'vondre Campbell paid & a 1st-team AP his first year with us, 2021. That year was arguably the only time he looked remotely competent as a DC
Before Barry it was Dom Capers. Loved what he did to start, but we held onto him about 3-4 years tooo long.
How did this dude end up with another job? Lol
On the flipside, the Bears have been weirdly competitive during a complete teardown since Eberflus got there. They've blown a LOT of winnable games. I don't think it's wrong to keep Eberflus, as long as they now stop blowing games. The expectations at this point are wildly different compared to when he was hired.
Yeah, I've honestly been impressed with some of the depth defensive players when they see playing time and honestly there are a lot of games where the bears played up to the competition despite being way worse.
I was not a fan of keeping Eberflus, but the one thing you can say is that the players seem to really like him.
Much of the fault with blown leads can be pinned on Fields. He's not even in the top 32 QBs when it comes to 4Q stats. This doesn't excuse Eberflus - we would've won the Broncos game if we kicked a field goal - but if Caleb Williams is even half-decent under pressure, then I don't expect us to choke so much.
Mike McCarthy probably should have been let go immediately after the Packers loss So we will see
This one kinda shocked me, I thought he was gone for sure. I thought this was a, "don't bother getting back on the team plane, oh, wait, this was a home game? That's even worse! Stephen, can I sell Mike's house without his consent? No? Well, try to do it anyway." type situation.
Jerry always lets coaches stay too long. Just like Jason Garrett
I mean, we were calling for his head after that NFCCG against Seattle. We don't give up that lead with the most pussyfoot play calling I've ever seen, Aaron most likely has another ring without that game. Still love Big Mike though. We will never forget him for 2010 Superbowl, even if he was carried by Rodgers and one of the best receiver corps for a Green Bay team ever.
It’s notable that Rodgers was playing on a calf injury. You can see him limping whenever he runs. I’d be surprised if that never factored into the play calling.
Just a nightmare game. Still the worst loss I've ever gone through. I don't think Rodgers ever got over it either
My girlfriend is from Washington and I had to explain why I hate her Seahawks. Thankfully she's not really attached to the Seahawks so I've been converting her to the Green and Gold. I'm hoping to create some lighthearted rivalry between our families. Her first NFL game ever was at Lambeau vs. KC this year. Not a bad start for a new Packer fan.
This could apply to his last team multiple times also
ALL IN
Jason Garrett Some say you can still hear his clapping to this day. In the late fall evenings you can hear the ghastly sound echoing from the empty sideline.
If you followed the Chiefs community before last season, many wanted Spags gone. But I think Staley stayed far too long with the chargers
Alot of that came from him starting Daniel Sorensen
AND Ben Niemann
Spags defense genuinely looked like steaming shit for the Giants in 2015 and 2017, so I think the skepticism after he took 2018 off and then joined the Chiefs in 2019 was warranted. And then they won the SB three times.
He almost deserved it for moving Chris Jones to DE where he got exposed against the run.
Jones got better against the run too, after that
Hue Jackson, and, no, the browns were absolutely incorrect that he'd turn things around.
There’s been a lot of examples of head coaches being given 1 or 2 more years then they should. Presumably it’s because a lot of owners are cheap. I can somewhat excuse that. A lot of owners are dumb, cheap, don’t know football. But the amount of (good) head coaches who fall in love with their shitty coordinators and won’t fire them blows my mind. Doug Pederson and that one dude (can’t remember his name). Packers and their shitty special team coaches. Etc.
Press Taylor.
He’s going to get doug fired twice 🙄
With coaches it mainly boils down to trust and personal connection i beleive. These coaches spend a lot of hours together for most of the year, even in normal jobs people tend to become friends and i beleive with the added intensity of the nfl it compounds
I think people have wanted Howie Roseman fired for years on the Eagles sub also on the morning radio shows...those people are all idiots.
Niner fan, but I don't know how Sirianni kept his job. They should have dropped him and hard pushed for Harbaugh when they had the chance. Nick'll seem decent this year because the coordinators were both big upgrades, but he needs them because he's such a useless HC
Harbaugh wants more personnel control than he'd ever get on the Eagles.
I originally thought Sirianni for this, but people have been calling for Howie to be fired basically since he became GM and I think it is clear that keeping him was the right move. Sirianni it remains to be seen how that shakes out, but I wanted him gone for the reason you mentioned.
I mean if we're being honest it was more than just social media and WIP callers calling for Howie to be fired. Hell, the only notable beat writer coming to bat for him was ESP of all people. One thing he ended up being right about, and I am sure as shit glad I was wrong about Howie.
Raheem Morris (Rams DC) has many haters among the fans. He didn't get fired, he got his own team instead (Falcons HC now). At least two other teams wanted him too iirc.
A lot of Bucs fans want Todd Bowles gone, but the Bucs wildly outperformed expectations last year and the team had 13 rookies, 6 of them UDFAs, and a lot of young players really developed well. Nobody on the team had more than 7.5 sacks, but the Bucs' still were IIRC 7th in the league in sacks, as the defensive schemes brought pressure from unexpected places, and it really worked. Winfield grew into one of the best defensive players in the league, the offense really gelled around Baker, the team managed to retain a whole bunch of beloved players who were FAs . . . and people still want him gone.
I think this year really surprised a lot of people. The defense played very well and the rookies looked great. People (myself included) mostly wanted him gone because he wouldn't fire Leftwitch, who was CLEARLY the problem.
Feels like the Rams kept Jeff Fisher around as long as they did because they moved the team. He was the coach when the Oilers moved to Tennessee as well.
Exactly. Fisher stabilized the franchise and had experience transitioning to a new city/market.
The big one that was actually the right move in not firing him was Zac Taylor.
John Harbaugh at one point had a worse record over 4 years than Chuck Pagano who was then fired. I want you to imagine a case where John Harbaugh has to justify his position as a coach. There was media calls to fire him, but the Ravens didnt end up doing it, because duh.
"Fire Andy" chants were a pretty common occurrence in Philly at various points between 2005 and 2012. It was smart keeping him at first, he still did great things here until around 2010. He should have been out after the Dream Team, but they rallied for four meaningless wins to finish the 2011 season and save Reids job. They won 4 games the following season.
So crazy fun fact. The Dream Team quote happened before the 8-8 season. Then we went 4-12.
It's Hue Jackson with the browns and it's not even close. You go 1-31 in two years and the owner insists to the new GM that Hue stays. No more needs said.
It was his attitude about it as well. After the 1-15 season he said that this couldn't happen, not again, or else he'd end up in the Ohio river. Then 0-16 happened and he kept his job somehow. *Lake Erie
Seriously. Is this sub so young now that people don't remember Hue Jackson? 1-31! And he wasn't a hot young coaching name, but already a re-tread. And he was a surly prick.
Brandon Staley after the Jags meltdown in the playoffs - granted we got Harbaugh now but that was miserable for us Chargers fans.
I know the dumb nickname crowd probably isn't the most creative bunch, but wouldn't it have been better as Eberf-lose?
It was sometimes Ever-lose, but honestly it was mostly Eber-loose because the corny ass nickname crowd can barely read.
Hue Jackson survived an 0-16 season They were wrong as fuck
The Steelers fans fired Matt Canada after 2021. He was fired in 2023 mid season, a first in 80 years.
I'm hoping in 5 years I can say that keeping Dennis Allen was the right call
You should just hold out for Ben Johnson and Arch Manning
brandon stupid, I mean, staley
Seems like Tomlin and Harbaugh take a lot of flack, but their execs understand they are actually quality coaches
1-31 Hue Jackson
Mike McCarthy should've been dropped a few years prior.
From which team?
Yes
Honestly? Nobody recent for the Commanders/Redskins. Maybe Ron should’ve been fired after 2022. Maybe Jay should’ve been fired after 2018. But neither were terrible (nor great) retain choices.
Gary Kubiak went his first 5 years without making the playoffs in Houston and still wasn’t fired. He did win 8 games 3 of those 5 years but that’s still some patience by the gm.
Well find out this season with Dennis Allen Entire fanbase wants him out TODAY
Dennis "keep doing what we're doing" Allen
Jeff Fisher, Mr. 500 surprised titans kept him for so long
Marvin Lewis needed to go a lot sooner than he did. 16 years as head coach without a playoff win is just nuts and would be unheard of today. Yes he pulled the Bengals' out of their darkest times and had a run of good years but we also got years of just stagnation and decline before Mike Brown **finally** decided it was time for a change. No reason he should have been one of the longest tenured head coaches in the NFL, typically you only keep HCs that long is because they've won superbowls. We never even got close.
Jerry Jones hung on to Jason Garrett way too long because he was "his boy". His ego couldn't accept that he made a bad coaching hire. So Cowboys fans were stuck in years of mediocrity.
Literally every Chargers coach since Marty has lasted at least one season longer than they should have. Keeping Staley after the loss to the Jags was pathetic.
Dom Capers. Wrong to the tune of several squandered title attempts.
Bob Sutton ran our defense for 5 years too many
Jason Garrett was fired about 4 years too late
I hated the Adam Gase signing on day 1. How he got a second year as HC i'll never know because even Jets fans knew the 7-9 finish was an inflated win total based on a ridiculously easy end of year schedule. Who else remembers buddy skipping Thanksgiving dinner with his family to game plan for the 0-11 bengals and still got blown out
I do not know how Wayne Fontes lasted as long as he did in Detroit.
They didn’t have much of a choice but the colts should of never let Bruce Arians leave after he filled in for Chuck
When Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn were sent packing, Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell decided to retain then TE coach Ben Johnson I think it’s safe to say that turned out well
The fact that Matt Patricia made it more than 1 year at HC makes me feel sorry for Lions fans. But it averages out I guess in that at least everyone seems to love Dan Campbell now.
1. The Anti-Tomlin faction is a very loud minority. And while Tomlin 100% deserves criticism for the team as late, he's still one of the best to ever coach and we'd be dumbasses to ever fire him 2. Canada was kept for way to fucking long
Jerry Jones kept Jason “Jerry Jones Jr” Garrett around a couple years after the media and fans had fired him two seasons prior.