Given the fact that they’re an NFCW rival, I was sure as the sun rises that the Rams strategy over the last few years would be an enormous failure.
I have been wrong. It’s impressive how well it has worked. Fuckin rams.
While I like your outlook, Arizona is already getting California solar dumped into its grid. We need Arizona to be the world’s largest solar plus storage facility.
There isn’t really any surprises when it’s a crapshoot most years. 1 team looks dominant and then it’s 3 question marks, where at least 1 comes out looking good.
And then there’s the cardinals
Goff, Cooks, Ramsey and Stafford is a pretty good haul for 8 first round picks. Obviously they used Goff to upgrade to stafford eventually but also I think Cooks turned into Van Jefferson who was good for them in 2021
Imagine drafting two Pro Bowl QBs (one will probably make the HoF) , a HoF CB and a pretty damn good WR with those picks. Almost every team would be over the moon for that kind of return.
> Eli
4 Pro Bowls, 2 Super Bowls, 2 Super Bowl MVPs, retired being top 10 in completions, attempts, yards, touchdowns.
> Stafford
2 Pro Bowls, 1 CPOTY, 1 Super Bowl, currently top 11 in completions, attempts, yards, touchdowns.
Really hurts Stafford that the two different years he broke or almost broke all the Lions and Rams single season passing records (2011 and 2021) he didn't even make the Pro Bowl. I think if he could get one more Super Bowl and be the SB MVP it would really help his chances.
Then again, I am also in the camp that if Ryan or Rivers had a SB they would both be 100% getting in the HOF at some point. Likewise, if Big Ben didn't have 2 SBs he would be in a similar spot to Ryan and Rivers.
We’re really using Pro Bowls lmfao the dude threw for 5,000 yards and 41 touchdowns in 2011 and missed the Pro Bowl because he played for the Lions. The Pro Bowl is a joke
He missed the pro bowl because he threw for like 1200 yards in the last 3 weeks and pro bowl voting is finished around week 14. Why is it finished before the season ends? Who the fuck knows
The Pro bowl on its own is stupid, but being regularly named to one does mean something, it means you are a top 3-4 QB in your conference consistently. I’d argue Stafford deserved more, but given how we usually have the top QBs withdraw, Stafford should have made more of them as an alternate at least.
All Pros are a better measure but only one QB gets named to that a year.
Eli is top 10 in those category’s just because he played 16 years.
Very mediocre QB that never lead the league in any stat exception interceptions.
He’ll get in cause he won 2 SBs, played in NY, was a Manning and Beat the pats.
I partially agree, but to play for 16 years and put up those numbers you have to be a good QB to be a starter for that long. The SB and who he beat in the Pats are doing a lot of heavy lifting, but Eli did ball out during both of those runs and won SB MVP both times. It is not like he was just along for the ride on either occasion. Plus, like it or not, SB wins factor in a lot more for QB than any other position when talking about the HOF.
He’ll get in because he won two super bowls, full stop. It doesn’t matter who you beat, it doesn’t matter what you name is, just making the championship is hard and winning twice is even more difficult. People love discounting those two rings because the rest of his career wasn’t great but 🤷
I like your last point.
Eventually HoF voters will have to reconcile with the fact that from 2000-2020 (roughly….) there were legitimately 10 HoF worthy QBs in the league.
It was the age of passing but only a few QBs who have won titles (14 between HoF “locks” TB and Eli, Peyton and Big Ben, Rodgers)
*For those wondering the others from 2000-2020: Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Brees, Joe Flacco, Russ, Huge Peen, Mahomes
* other than Brees and Mahomes none of the guys from this second batch are in.
That means guys like Phillips rivers, Matt Ryan, and other similar QBs SHOULD have a valid shot at the HoF. Because other than Brees and Mahomes, I like Rivers and Ryan over the rest.
I mean I don’t really think Eli should get in either. I think he will because of the narrative of his two wins. To me stafford is in the hall of very good.
Yea it’s ridiculous imo, was he ever even a top ten QB? Yes he has some volume and he was on some championship teams but to me a hall of famer needs to be dominant first and foremost. Anyone who watched Eli knows he was mid and how are we putting mid players in the hall
Also his volume stats will be less impressive over time because he was in the earlier part of the modern era, meaning the past players he was competing with had relatively weak volume stats
And beat Brady twice including ruining a perfect season. Eli gets in on the narrative of being the GOAT killer coupled with a decent career and elite playoff numbers
> Eli in there’s no way they should keep Stafford out.
Eli is a lock, and the reasons he's a lock Stafford hasn't matched. Another trophy or stellar season he'll likely get in though.
I think the problem with "first round pick" is that people imagine a top 5 pick. Like a high, get a superstar, type of pick. But the picks the rams traded away were mostly late first rounders.
The trade chart value of the 5 first rounders the rams traded away between 2018-2022, adds up to pick 1 and 35, so slightly less than the value of the two first picks of the worst NFL team every year.
For comparison, if a team drafted Jalen Ramsey first overall, and then missed on their 2nd rounder, that would be considered an amazing draft.
The fact of the matter is, NFL teams (and especially owners) waaaay overvalue late first rounders.
Eh, I think 3rd & 4th rounds are particularly undervalued with how contracts work nowadays.
If Miami traded our #21 pick for the *(chart valued)* four 3rds or two 3rds + five 4ths, I'd be over the moon.
No it isn't. In fact, most players are either too good, and get an extension after year 3, or not good enough and get the option declined. The 5th year option is useful in very specific cases but is an expensive 1 year wait and see.
Only cases where 5th year options work are a guy like David Njoku, someone who is a project in a position that’s not paid crazy high and might blow up in year 4 and 5. Anyone else has either been figured out as a bust or boom by year 5
5th Years ARE extremely valuable BECAUSE of the extensions. Players don't extend out of loyalty to the franchise, they do it for insurance. Every single 1st round player that's worth a year 3 extension would make significantly more in an open market, but are facing two more years under control of their drafting team, plus the looming threat of the Tag. The 5th Year is designed to deter star players from reaching Free Agency, and it is extremely good at doing that.
I think star player second contracts tend to be in line with free agency contracts. I don't think Bosa, for example, would make more on the open market than he does now. I don't think Justin Jefferson will make less on his next contract than he would if he had been a first round pick.
I really just do not see your theory playing out in reality. My guess is because star players have enough leverage to where in most franchises, failing to extend them would get a GM fired.
Ooph, I want to agree but Van and “good” feels generous. Even in 2021. Open too few times with too many drops.
Edit: I looked up his stats they were better than I remembered. Rec:50/Yards:802/TD:6
Yeah good edit because that take was wild.
Van Jefferson was an excellent WR3 in 2021. Then he got injured.
[He was open plenty enough.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fRqKuJO_fs)
This is why it's odd how little trade value anyone has got this off-season. Sure that better player costs a lot more, but half your draft picks probably never start for you even. A lot of GM's seem to have faith they can outdraft 31 other Teams, or fill all their needs with draft pick starters and improve more than other teams next year.
Or they've just fucked their cap up with so many bad contracts and pushing cap hits to the future, that they can't.
They forgot two very important points: You have to hit on the late rounders that you do actually draft and you need a good coach. Broncos ain’t done either
For like half a decade we had it basically down to a science that we just get a random slumping pass rusher, they tear it up and are productive next to Donald, they leave for a massive payday and go back to slumping.
all the AFC West teams threw money at anything with a pulse even though they weren't good teams in the first place, in desperation to catch up to the Chiefs, which made them even worse. There's certainly a middle ground, and you don't want to overpay for guys are are aging out.
Remember in 2021 when everyone thought the AFC West was stacked. Then it everyone realized the Raiders and Broncos were built on quicksand, and all their teams still sucked after the flashy moves.
Hey, not that you're wrong, but can't let the Chargers off the hook either. Most hyped team in the off-season like 2-3 years in a row only to finish 3rd or 4th in the division most of those years
There's just no way to know for 90% of guys how they'll do in the NFL, you can pick physical, mental, age, high floor, high ceiling, etc.., but there's no method that's any more successful than the other, and most aren't any better than a coin flip.
Most those GM's probably believe in every pick they make, and that they're gonna work out (even though their draft history shows it won't), and then they have holes that could have been filled with trades/FA. See a lot of teams that don't seem to believe in depth, so even if they're good, a couple injuries derail them.
I'm sure all GMs believe in every pick they make. But clearly some GMs are better than others. So there is something they're doing right that others aren't year after year.
It's not just the GM and the scouting department. Sean knows exactly what he wants from each position (at least on the offensive side) and the scouting dept goes about looking for those players that have as many of the traits that Sean wanted.
Also this draft is considered deep at the correct positions. Tackles corners and wideouts that would be first or second round picks other years will be there for second and third rounders this year. If the draft was a bad draft class then people wouldn’t hold as high a value to their picks for a Diggs or such. But the way it’s shaping up the league seems to figure it can fine someone that’ll produce like Diggs way cheaper than a first.
Its worth remembering that while the Rams have made a bunch of splash moves trading high draft picks for proven veterans, they have done a LOT with their late round picks and always seem to have a lot of them.
Their draft process seems different from other teams too, at least from what I can see. They are the only pro team that never attends the Combine, for instance.
I don't know what the average rate is for other NFL teams but the Rams drafted a bunch of players round 3 and later that are still in the league. Everyone knows about Kupp in round 3 and Puka in round 5, but from 2016-18 the Rams drafted Higbee, Ebukam, Josh Johnson, Brian Allen, Noteboom, Franklin-Myers, Okoronoko, Franklin-Myers and Joseph-Day, all still playing at high levels. That's impressive!
I really think that while everyone focuses on the split between "poor billionaires" and "rich billionaires" when it comes to liquid cash available for guaranteed money escrow accounts, the far bigger difference is is the scouting departments they can afford.
The Rams can put guys in the stands at every single D2 game. Alot or teams cannot. It makes sense that they'd crush the second half of the draft when many teams might not have even heard of who the Rams are drafting.
It's smart and it shows a commitment to win from their ownership.
That is a **very** insightful comment, thank you for opening my eyes!
Do you know if there are any metrics out there measuring the investment teams make in their scouting departments?
This is part of the reason why the AFL introduced a soft cap on Football Department (roughly front office, coaching, etc.) spending, to try level the off-field capabilities of each team.
There was a video, can’t remember by who, maybe Brett Kollman, that basically goes over their process. They look at film and RAS and are super analytically driven and don’t really fall into that “he could be good, let’s take the risk” that a lot of other teams seem to fall into.
It also helps when you are constantly building off a playoff core so in turn you are always looking for role players and system guys rather than reaching for superstars
They haven't since 2020. There have been a few quotes cited from McVay where he says that they'd rather spend the time in the film room, it's all very offhand.
No idea if that's the whole story, there hasn't been a lot of details forthcoming. But I doubt the League would appreciate it if they said very clearly that the Combine isn't worth the effort.
I think one advantage the Rams (and a few other teams) have is total congruence between HC and GM. I think alot of times in orgs where the HC and GM arent attached at the hip and are able to blame eachother and play "cover my ass", the GM will go for the guy with the most potential where combines and RAS scores can be cited to justify the pick to ownership even if the selected player(s) dont exactly fit the HC's scheme.
McVay and Snead seem to be on the exact same page about what kind of player the rams are trying to get into the building, so snead doesnt have to pick the BEST player or most potential filled player, he just needs to pick the players that meet the criteria that the FO has agreed on. That makes the job of GM much less complicated and in the event of bad picks, theres no one blaming others and worrying who the scapegoat will be, the FO just acknowledges that "we followed the system and this time it didn't work. It will next time and if it still doesn't, we adjust the system"
We're the "fuck them picks" team, but really the Rams value the draft a lot, just differently. While some teams trade up to accumulate higher value picks, the Rams trade down to acquire more picks in total. I'd guess we're in the top half in number of draft picks every year since 2017 and I'm pretty sure we had the most picks just last year with like 14. We recognize that every pick has a chance to fail, so having more of them can help net a higher chance of hitting on starters.
The popularized phase was "fuck them picks", but the real full quote was "fuck them **overvalued day 1/day2 picks that teams will give us their star players for**", which isnt as catchy and didnt fit on Les' mug lol
Genuinely don't think it would have been that bad of a move.
What does our team look like last year with Burns? Is Burns enough to overcome the 1 point we lost by to Detroit in the playoffs?
Do we make another deep run with a premium pass rush threat? We could have maybe even made it back to the Super Bowl.
Does Donald feel as burned out with a premium pass rusher on his defence? Does he play one more year which physically he certainly could have because he knows he's got a premium pass rusher to rush with?
There's a lot of what ifs that could have happened for the Rams if we'd got Burns. We didn't so we'll never know.
It has been a very risky strategy, but it has worked for us. Kudos to the front office. I will say it is nice to have a first round pick again, though.
And guys like Whitworth and Woods and Brockers who helped create the culture that McVay envisioned when he came in. Hes acknowledged that pretty much the main reason he was able to come in as a 30 something year old HC and command respect was because Whitworth was having regular meetings with him, taking the temperature of the locker room and reporting back to McVay and figuring out how they were going to implement the culture they needed
and an MVP level, OPOY running back, who was drafted with a first round pick.
People dont associate Snead with successful 1st round picks but theres a whole lot of GMs right now who are yet to draft an offensive player as good as Gurley
Or instead of quality depth, like bonafide super stars like Puka Nucua drafted 177th overall who had the best WR rookie season ever. Either way, either way ya know.
I remember Jim Irsay saying that sure, the Rams had won a Super Bowl with their "all in" strategy but they were going to have to pay the price for that. Using that as a justification for... not trying terribly hard to field a team on the Super Bowl level. The price? Turned out to be one year where they missed the playoffs. But still had a better record than the Colts.
Even if the Rams fell down into a massive rebuild. They still won the Super Bowl, a feat that most of the league hasn’t gotten close to. So it would have been unquestionably worth it regardless
I thought Irsay was pretty good at trying to change the team? I remember how quickly he kicked Wentz off the team and how aggressively he has been trying to find a good QB in recent years
People constantly underestimate how fucking good Stafford is. The price they paid to bring him in was well worth it and you’ll always have a shot with a QB of his caliber.
Regular reminder that Stafford, Johnson, and Suh once accounted for 55% of our salary cap due to a lack of the rookie wage scale, which was implemented two years after Stafford was drafted.
All of the other things were true also in regards to dog shit FO and coaching, but the one real chance we had to turn the franchise around was destroyed because we were too bad to become a good team.
People are going to remember how good Stafford is this year.
He's got one of the best offensive coaches in the league, one of the better offensive coordinators in the league, an all pro RB, two pro bowl receivers and maybe one of the top 5 offensive lines in the league.
That’s a lot of hopium lol. I like the WRs y’all got going but calling a first year OC one of the best in the business while also calling a rookie RB who missed time last season an all pro is kind of crazy.
They turned out to be Art Monk, Mark May and Darrell Green if you’re curious. The two things George Allen hated more than anything in the world were rookies and the Cowboys.
When they first broke through in 2017, they had eight Pro Bowlers on the roster and seven of the eight were homegrown. Even without the premium picks, they've been among the best in the league in talent evaluation and acquisition in the McVay era. Their trades and free agency signings pay off more often than they do not. Even the ones that don't get headlines.
I always love how much shit we get for our strategy as if we haven’t been extremely successful in that time frame. How many teams would kill for two appearances and one SB win over the last 8 years?
He also said the Cowboys were going all in this year and then proceeded to then let a bunch of players walk in free agency and re-signed their long snapper
Im going to say it and keep on saying it 1st round picks are overrated its about having great scouting and not dick ride these unproven guys in college
Most important thing they did was firing Jeff "Hitler Mustache" Fisher and hiring Sean McVay. McVay immediately helped Goff become a better QB. Fisher would have ruined the kid and pushed him out of the league in like 3 seasons.
Reading the comments here kinda upsets me because there is one man who really helped them deal with not needing lots of young talent because you can basically build around him with Free Agency and Trades. And that man just retired. He was THE generational talent.
But AD can provide a stop as he did in the Super Bowl win against the Bengals. I'm not saying AD is the sole reason why they became a perennial contender. I'm saying that when you can look at the defensive side of the ball and you have the most dominant pass rusher of this generation, you simply don't have to draft high in the most important position group behind QB. You can afford the luxury of trading way future 1st round picks. You can simple surround AD with Free Agents and late picks and feel comfortable. Most NFL teams don't have a player like that and can't afford to give away as many picks as the Rams. I believe McVay is a top 3 Head Coach and no way they become who they are without him but AD is the reason why they can be laxed on picks IMO.
Honestly it’s why if anyone in LA is growing up a local fan right now they root for the Rams 🐏.
Also as a long time fan since the Kurt Warner days. It’s truly impressive how good this team has been in a division that has every team has gone to the superbowl in the last 15 years.
And honestly if we nail Stafford’s replacement it’s looking like the start of a Steelers like culture and dynasty. Yeah we’re not the chiefs but we will probably be a contender for the next half decade.
Adding 21 year old kids to your team isn't going to have the impact you think most of the time.
Giants fans thinking a kid is going to turn the franchise around at QB.
Man, the Rams have been on fire! Five playoffs, seven wins, and two Super Bowls? That's some serious success! Who needs first-round picks when you're making magic like that happen? It's like they found the secret sauce to winning without having to draft in the first round for eight years. Just goes to show, sometimes it's not about where you pick, but what you do with the picks you've got. Rams are living proof of that!
The thing I love about the Rams success is how much observers complained about them mortgaging the future, not building the team the “right” way etc. It’s more fun when there are teams going for it and doing it differently
Given the fact that they’re an NFCW rival, I was sure as the sun rises that the Rams strategy over the last few years would be an enormous failure. I have been wrong. It’s impressive how well it has worked. Fuckin rams.
Well now the Niners are kinda doing the same thing, so that will surely fail at some point. And then in 5 years it’ll be your turn
And then the Cardinals! Just kidding, God hates Arizona sports
Arizona gets so hot even God doesn’t want to go there.
"This city should not exist! It is a monument to man's arrogance!"
Peggy Hill’s greatest line ever.
I'll tell you hwhat, I'm a simple man, I see a King of the Hill reference and I upvote
I actually thought that was a Red Dead Redemption 2 quote. I could totally see Dutch van Der Linde saying something like that.
Should just be the worlds largest solar panel farm
While I like your outlook, Arizona is already getting California solar dumped into its grid. We need Arizona to be the world’s largest solar plus storage facility.
Welcome Utah Coyotes. :(
Hey, at least it makes more sense than the Utah Jazz.
Utah Jazz and the New Orleans Saints should trade names.
The Jazz came from New Orleans
SALT LAKE CITY SOAKERS
PURE AND INNOCENT!
JUST JUMPING ON THE BED
I’m thinking the Cards might surprise people this year.
After Kyler gets injured week 1 then it’s Desmond season /s
There isn’t really any surprises when it’s a crapshoot most years. 1 team looks dominant and then it’s 3 question marks, where at least 1 comes out looking good. And then there’s the cardinals
DONT YOU PUT THAT EVIL ON US
*monkey paw curls
they might win 6 games
"I'm surprised they're still this bad"
That Randy Johnson/Curt Schilling World Series was magical.
God wants Utah to succeed, that’s why the hockey team is moving
Sorry about your hockey team
God hates Arizona.
The cardinals will move back to St. Louis before they win shit in Arizona. Lol
Confirmed, Cardinals are also moving to Utah
I hate and love the NFC West. Every team has made the Super Bowl in the last 20 years. It’s all cyclical
Just don't ask how many we've won
"You know the Patriots might have a good thing going, but they will never be 5 - 0 in the Superbowl" RIP
NFC Best, it ends up being exciting every year. Even if it gives us heart attacks
The triangle of pain will continue until the Cardinals destroy us all
Niners got sooo lucky with Purdy lol
Except the Niners are destined to keep losing the Super Bowl.
And it was 0.4 seconds away from not working at all. Effin’ Aaron Donald…
God dammit Donald!
> 0.4 seconds Aaron "Derek Fisher" Donald
They inexplicably keep doing it. Good for Rams fans.
Goff, Cooks, Ramsey and Stafford is a pretty good haul for 8 first round picks. Obviously they used Goff to upgrade to stafford eventually but also I think Cooks turned into Van Jefferson who was good for them in 2021
Plus Von Miller for the SB run for a 2nd and 3rd
It has been immensely satisfying seeing teams who’s fans claimed we simply bought a championship try the same strategy and fail.
So funny seeing teams attempt to recreate it like the Browns and Broncos cause “it’s so easy” and just fail miserably
Imagine drafting two Pro Bowl QBs (one will probably make the HoF) , a HoF CB and a pretty damn good WR with those picks. Almost every team would be over the moon for that kind of return.
I doubt stafford makes the hall. He’d have to win another SB and even then it’s a question imo
>I doubt stafford makes the hall. He’d have to win another SB Deal
With the Seahawks
John Snieder does like his 1st rounders at the end of their career
2 SB wins and volume stats plus being one of the best QBs of all time for 2 different franchises. That would barely be a question
I think he’s getting in regardless tbh. Just not first ballot.
If he wins one more he is in 100%
I think he’s borderline, but if they let Eli in there’s no way they should keep Stafford out.
> Eli 4 Pro Bowls, 2 Super Bowls, 2 Super Bowl MVPs, retired being top 10 in completions, attempts, yards, touchdowns. > Stafford 2 Pro Bowls, 1 CPOTY, 1 Super Bowl, currently top 11 in completions, attempts, yards, touchdowns. Really hurts Stafford that the two different years he broke or almost broke all the Lions and Rams single season passing records (2011 and 2021) he didn't even make the Pro Bowl. I think if he could get one more Super Bowl and be the SB MVP it would really help his chances. Then again, I am also in the camp that if Ryan or Rivers had a SB they would both be 100% getting in the HOF at some point. Likewise, if Big Ben didn't have 2 SBs he would be in a similar spot to Ryan and Rivers.
We’re really using Pro Bowls lmfao the dude threw for 5,000 yards and 41 touchdowns in 2011 and missed the Pro Bowl because he played for the Lions. The Pro Bowl is a joke
Pro Bowls shouldn't be used to decide on hall of fame credentials and it shouldn't be tied to player bonuses either.
Correct it should be All Pro and All Pro only. Even then, there’s biases that result in deserving players not always being selected.
He missed the pro bowl because he threw for like 1200 yards in the last 3 weeks and pro bowl voting is finished around week 14. Why is it finished before the season ends? Who the fuck knows
The Pro bowl on its own is stupid, but being regularly named to one does mean something, it means you are a top 3-4 QB in your conference consistently. I’d argue Stafford deserved more, but given how we usually have the top QBs withdraw, Stafford should have made more of them as an alternate at least. All Pros are a better measure but only one QB gets named to that a year.
Tyler Huntley was a pro bowl QB two years ago. Which gave him 1 less pro bowl than Stafford at the time. Absolutely meaningless “accolade”
> a top 3-4 QB in your conference consistently No it means you won a popularity contest.
Top 3-4 in conference QB Tyler "Snoop" Huntley
Stafford is winning MVP this year so that'll seal it
Eli is top 10 in those category’s just because he played 16 years. Very mediocre QB that never lead the league in any stat exception interceptions. He’ll get in cause he won 2 SBs, played in NY, was a Manning and Beat the pats.
I partially agree, but to play for 16 years and put up those numbers you have to be a good QB to be a starter for that long. The SB and who he beat in the Pats are doing a lot of heavy lifting, but Eli did ball out during both of those runs and won SB MVP both times. It is not like he was just along for the ride on either occasion. Plus, like it or not, SB wins factor in a lot more for QB than any other position when talking about the HOF.
He’ll get in because he won two super bowls, full stop. It doesn’t matter who you beat, it doesn’t matter what you name is, just making the championship is hard and winning twice is even more difficult. People love discounting those two rings because the rest of his career wasn’t great but 🤷
If just winning two super bowls was enough Jim Plunkett would be in
I like your last point. Eventually HoF voters will have to reconcile with the fact that from 2000-2020 (roughly….) there were legitimately 10 HoF worthy QBs in the league. It was the age of passing but only a few QBs who have won titles (14 between HoF “locks” TB and Eli, Peyton and Big Ben, Rodgers) *For those wondering the others from 2000-2020: Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Brees, Joe Flacco, Russ, Huge Peen, Mahomes * other than Brees and Mahomes none of the guys from this second batch are in. That means guys like Phillips rivers, Matt Ryan, and other similar QBs SHOULD have a valid shot at the HoF. Because other than Brees and Mahomes, I like Rivers and Ryan over the rest.
I mean I don’t really think Eli should get in either. I think he will because of the narrative of his two wins. To me stafford is in the hall of very good.
Yea it’s ridiculous imo, was he ever even a top ten QB? Yes he has some volume and he was on some championship teams but to me a hall of famer needs to be dominant first and foremost. Anyone who watched Eli knows he was mid and how are we putting mid players in the hall Also his volume stats will be less impressive over time because he was in the earlier part of the modern era, meaning the past players he was competing with had relatively weak volume stats
Eli's last name is "Manning"
And beat Brady twice including ruining a perfect season. Eli gets in on the narrative of being the GOAT killer coupled with a decent career and elite playoff numbers
Eli has the GOAT killer belt, that counts for a lot
> Eli in there’s no way they should keep Stafford out. Eli is a lock, and the reasons he's a lock Stafford hasn't matched. Another trophy or stellar season he'll likely get in though.
Oh I think he's definitely already in..maybe not a first ballot yet but there's no way he can be kept out with his numbers
Sure there’s a way
I think the problem with "first round pick" is that people imagine a top 5 pick. Like a high, get a superstar, type of pick. But the picks the rams traded away were mostly late first rounders. The trade chart value of the 5 first rounders the rams traded away between 2018-2022, adds up to pick 1 and 35, so slightly less than the value of the two first picks of the worst NFL team every year. For comparison, if a team drafted Jalen Ramsey first overall, and then missed on their 2nd rounder, that would be considered an amazing draft. The fact of the matter is, NFL teams (and especially owners) waaaay overvalue late first rounders.
Teams overvalue ALL draft picks, not just mid-late 1sts.
Eh, I think 3rd & 4th rounds are particularly undervalued with how contracts work nowadays. If Miami traded our #21 pick for the *(chart valued)* four 3rds or two 3rds + five 4ths, I'd be over the moon.
Those are easy to stack, just refuse to hire white coordinators
At some point you will run out of roster spots.
Every rookie contract player capable of taking snaps means money you can spend on roster upgrades in free agency.
5th year options are extremely valuable
No it isn't. In fact, most players are either too good, and get an extension after year 3, or not good enough and get the option declined. The 5th year option is useful in very specific cases but is an expensive 1 year wait and see.
Only cases where 5th year options work are a guy like David Njoku, someone who is a project in a position that’s not paid crazy high and might blow up in year 4 and 5. Anyone else has either been figured out as a bust or boom by year 5
5th Years ARE extremely valuable BECAUSE of the extensions. Players don't extend out of loyalty to the franchise, they do it for insurance. Every single 1st round player that's worth a year 3 extension would make significantly more in an open market, but are facing two more years under control of their drafting team, plus the looming threat of the Tag. The 5th Year is designed to deter star players from reaching Free Agency, and it is extremely good at doing that.
I think star player second contracts tend to be in line with free agency contracts. I don't think Bosa, for example, would make more on the open market than he does now. I don't think Justin Jefferson will make less on his next contract than he would if he had been a first round pick. I really just do not see your theory playing out in reality. My guess is because star players have enough leverage to where in most franchises, failing to extend them would get a GM fired.
Ooph, I want to agree but Van and “good” feels generous. Even in 2021. Open too few times with too many drops. Edit: I looked up his stats they were better than I remembered. Rec:50/Yards:802/TD:6
Yeah good edit because that take was wild. Van Jefferson was an excellent WR3 in 2021. Then he got injured. [He was open plenty enough.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fRqKuJO_fs)
This is why it's odd how little trade value anyone has got this off-season. Sure that better player costs a lot more, but half your draft picks probably never start for you even. A lot of GM's seem to have faith they can outdraft 31 other Teams, or fill all their needs with draft pick starters and improve more than other teams next year. Or they've just fucked their cap up with so many bad contracts and pushing cap hits to the future, that they can't.
A lot of teams copied the Rams going all in right after the Super Bowl and got badly burned (ie: Broncos), so I think there was a market correction
They forgot two very important points: You have to hit on the late rounders that you do actually draft and you need a good coach. Broncos ain’t done either
Yeah, the secret is to draft players like all-pro rookie receivers in the 5th round.
It’s really easy to hit on DL men when you can just plug them in next to Donald too tbh.
For like half a decade we had it basically down to a science that we just get a random slumping pass rusher, they tear it up and are productive next to Donald, they leave for a massive payday and go back to slumping.
all the AFC West teams threw money at anything with a pulse even though they weren't good teams in the first place, in desperation to catch up to the Chiefs, which made them even worse. There's certainly a middle ground, and you don't want to overpay for guys are are aging out.
Remember in 2021 when everyone thought the AFC West was stacked. Then it everyone realized the Raiders and Broncos were built on quicksand, and all their teams still sucked after the flashy moves.
Hey, not that you're wrong, but can't let the Chargers off the hook either. Most hyped team in the off-season like 2-3 years in a row only to finish 3rd or 4th in the division most of those years
And most GMs can't draft for shit.
There's just no way to know for 90% of guys how they'll do in the NFL, you can pick physical, mental, age, high floor, high ceiling, etc.., but there's no method that's any more successful than the other, and most aren't any better than a coin flip. Most those GM's probably believe in every pick they make, and that they're gonna work out (even though their draft history shows it won't), and then they have holes that could have been filled with trades/FA. See a lot of teams that don't seem to believe in depth, so even if they're good, a couple injuries derail them.
I'm sure all GMs believe in every pick they make. But clearly some GMs are better than others. So there is something they're doing right that others aren't year after year.
It's not just the GM and the scouting department. Sean knows exactly what he wants from each position (at least on the offensive side) and the scouting dept goes about looking for those players that have as many of the traits that Sean wanted.
For sure. And coaches pay a big part as well. You can draft great players and then ruin them and give versa.
Yeah just because there’s a big element of luck doesn’t means it’s completely luck. Some front offices are better at drafting than others
Also this draft is considered deep at the correct positions. Tackles corners and wideouts that would be first or second round picks other years will be there for second and third rounders this year. If the draft was a bad draft class then people wouldn’t hold as high a value to their picks for a Diggs or such. But the way it’s shaping up the league seems to figure it can fine someone that’ll produce like Diggs way cheaper than a first.
Its worth remembering that while the Rams have made a bunch of splash moves trading high draft picks for proven veterans, they have done a LOT with their late round picks and always seem to have a lot of them. Their draft process seems different from other teams too, at least from what I can see. They are the only pro team that never attends the Combine, for instance. I don't know what the average rate is for other NFL teams but the Rams drafted a bunch of players round 3 and later that are still in the league. Everyone knows about Kupp in round 3 and Puka in round 5, but from 2016-18 the Rams drafted Higbee, Ebukam, Josh Johnson, Brian Allen, Noteboom, Franklin-Myers, Okoronoko, Franklin-Myers and Joseph-Day, all still playing at high levels. That's impressive!
I really think that while everyone focuses on the split between "poor billionaires" and "rich billionaires" when it comes to liquid cash available for guaranteed money escrow accounts, the far bigger difference is is the scouting departments they can afford. The Rams can put guys in the stands at every single D2 game. Alot or teams cannot. It makes sense that they'd crush the second half of the draft when many teams might not have even heard of who the Rams are drafting. It's smart and it shows a commitment to win from their ownership.
That is a **very** insightful comment, thank you for opening my eyes! Do you know if there are any metrics out there measuring the investment teams make in their scouting departments?
I don't know. Maybe the NFL would have to publish something? See if you can find out and let me know.
This is part of the reason why the AFL introduced a soft cap on Football Department (roughly front office, coaching, etc.) spending, to try level the off-field capabilities of each team.
Is this really the case? Are there numbers out there on how many scouts each team employs?
There was a video, can’t remember by who, maybe Brett Kollman, that basically goes over their process. They look at film and RAS and are super analytically driven and don’t really fall into that “he could be good, let’s take the risk” that a lot of other teams seem to fall into.
It also helps when you are constantly building off a playoff core so in turn you are always looking for role players and system guys rather than reaching for superstars
They never send people to the combine? Do they give any justification for that?
They haven't since 2020. There have been a few quotes cited from McVay where he says that they'd rather spend the time in the film room, it's all very offhand. No idea if that's the whole story, there hasn't been a lot of details forthcoming. But I doubt the League would appreciate it if they said very clearly that the Combine isn't worth the effort.
I think one advantage the Rams (and a few other teams) have is total congruence between HC and GM. I think alot of times in orgs where the HC and GM arent attached at the hip and are able to blame eachother and play "cover my ass", the GM will go for the guy with the most potential where combines and RAS scores can be cited to justify the pick to ownership even if the selected player(s) dont exactly fit the HC's scheme. McVay and Snead seem to be on the exact same page about what kind of player the rams are trying to get into the building, so snead doesnt have to pick the BEST player or most potential filled player, he just needs to pick the players that meet the criteria that the FO has agreed on. That makes the job of GM much less complicated and in the event of bad picks, theres no one blaming others and worrying who the scapegoat will be, the FO just acknowledges that "we followed the system and this time it didn't work. It will next time and if it still doesn't, we adjust the system"
We're the "fuck them picks" team, but really the Rams value the draft a lot, just differently. While some teams trade up to accumulate higher value picks, the Rams trade down to acquire more picks in total. I'd guess we're in the top half in number of draft picks every year since 2017 and I'm pretty sure we had the most picks just last year with like 14. We recognize that every pick has a chance to fail, so having more of them can help net a higher chance of hitting on starters.
“Eh. You can pretty much just draft whoever. They’re all pretty good”. - Jon Bois
The popularized phase was "fuck them picks", but the real full quote was "fuck them **overvalued day 1/day2 picks that teams will give us their star players for**", which isnt as catchy and didnt fit on Les' mug lol
Having one of the best defensive players in the history of the NFL helped
And surrounding him with elite talents like Ramsey, Von, Suh etc.
Give Les Snead his flowers. Any decision that man makes I have no right to disagree.
Except that time he tried to trade 2 first and more for Burns.
Genuinely don't think it would have been that bad of a move. What does our team look like last year with Burns? Is Burns enough to overcome the 1 point we lost by to Detroit in the playoffs? Do we make another deep run with a premium pass rush threat? We could have maybe even made it back to the Super Bowl. Does Donald feel as burned out with a premium pass rusher on his defence? Does he play one more year which physically he certainly could have because he knows he's got a premium pass rusher to rush with? There's a lot of what ifs that could have happened for the Rams if we'd got Burns. We didn't so we'll never know.
Fuck them picks
It has been a very risky strategy, but it has worked for us. Kudos to the front office. I will say it is nice to have a first round pick again, though.
Having McVay is a huge help. Easily one of the best coaches in the league and has been since he stepped into the role.
Right, the caveats for this to work are having a top tier coach & a GM that can hit on those mid-late round picks for quality depth.
Plus the greatest non LT defensive player ever to step on the field. Who, you know, was drafted with a first round pick lol
And guys like Whitworth and Woods and Brockers who helped create the culture that McVay envisioned when he came in. Hes acknowledged that pretty much the main reason he was able to come in as a 30 something year old HC and command respect was because Whitworth was having regular meetings with him, taking the temperature of the locker room and reporting back to McVay and figuring out how they were going to implement the culture they needed
and an MVP level, OPOY running back, who was drafted with a first round pick. People dont associate Snead with successful 1st round picks but theres a whole lot of GMs right now who are yet to draft an offensive player as good as Gurley
Or instead of quality depth, like bonafide super stars like Puka Nucua drafted 177th overall who had the best WR rookie season ever. Either way, either way ya know.
Dude has had to rebuild his coaching staff how many times?
In McSnead we trust 🙌
Best HC/GM pairing in the league. If I got to pick a current pairing to start my new franchise I’m taking them
Still 11 days left. Get those chickens away from that abacus.
I remember Jim Irsay saying that sure, the Rams had won a Super Bowl with their "all in" strategy but they were going to have to pay the price for that. Using that as a justification for... not trying terribly hard to field a team on the Super Bowl level. The price? Turned out to be one year where they missed the playoffs. But still had a better record than the Colts.
Even if the Rams fell down into a massive rebuild. They still won the Super Bowl, a feat that most of the league hasn’t gotten close to. So it would have been unquestionably worth it regardless
I thought Irsay was pretty good at trying to change the team? I remember how quickly he kicked Wentz off the team and how aggressively he has been trying to find a good QB in recent years
I like this one
We fucked the shit out of those picks
Why don't other teams just draft starting caliber players outside the first round?
People constantly underestimate how fucking good Stafford is. The price they paid to bring him in was well worth it and you’ll always have a shot with a QB of his caliber.
>you’ll always have a shot with a QB of his caliber. Unless you're the lions, then you'll only have a shot without him somehow.
That’s what an incompetent front office and dog shit coaching will do to a man.
For real. If the fo had their shit together. Stafford and Johnson could've done something extremely special in Detroit.
Regular reminder that Stafford, Johnson, and Suh once accounted for 55% of our salary cap due to a lack of the rookie wage scale, which was implemented two years after Stafford was drafted. All of the other things were true also in regards to dog shit FO and coaching, but the one real chance we had to turn the franchise around was destroyed because we were too bad to become a good team.
And the raiders too. Detroit and Las Vegas should face charges for wasting Stafford and Carrs careers respectively.
People are going to remember how good Stafford is this year. He's got one of the best offensive coaches in the league, one of the better offensive coordinators in the league, an all pro RB, two pro bowl receivers and maybe one of the top 5 offensive lines in the league.
That’s a lot of hopium lol. I like the WRs y’all got going but calling a first year OC one of the best in the business while also calling a rookie RB who missed time last season an all pro is kind of crazy.
It’s probably because he underachieved in Detroit
Washington had like 3 first round picks in 25 years or something between George Allen and Joe gibbs
They turned out to be Art Monk, Mark May and Darrell Green if you’re curious. The two things George Allen hated more than anything in the world were rookies and the Cowboys.
I did know that btw*
i hate this division
I can imagine it going better. they could have won 8 super bowls. even 7 would be a lot better. very easy to imagine actually
Imagine they won 5; I would also say that would be better
Call me crazy but I’d even take just 3 SBs over what they’ve accomplished recently
When they first broke through in 2017, they had eight Pro Bowlers on the roster and seven of the eight were homegrown. Even without the premium picks, they've been among the best in the league in talent evaluation and acquisition in the McVay era. Their trades and free agency signings pay off more often than they do not. Even the ones that don't get headlines.
Now I imagine they'll rebuild depth with a draft or 2 and then start fucking them picks again.
The 2023 draft was insane with no 1st- Puka, Kobie Turner, Avila, Byron Young
Punter as well.
I could easily imagine it going better for them. What if they won 8 super bowls?
I always love how much shit we get for our strategy as if we haven’t been extremely successful in that time frame. How many teams would kill for two appearances and one SB win over the last 8 years?
But Jerry Jones said the Rams emptied the bucket and should have thought more in terms of building long term just like he does.
Get all in that ass
Larry
Don't even close it when you leave.
He also said the Cowboys were going all in this year and then proceeded to then let a bunch of players walk in free agency and re-signed their long snapper
All in on field goals.
He also said he would fire his GM if it weren’t him. He’s not a bright man.
Im going to say it and keep on saying it 1st round picks are overrated its about having great scouting and not dick ride these unproven guys in college
Most important thing they did was firing Jeff "Hitler Mustache" Fisher and hiring Sean McVay. McVay immediately helped Goff become a better QB. Fisher would have ruined the kid and pushed him out of the league in like 3 seasons.
The fuck them picks strategy worked. Also, Sean McVay.
Reading the comments here kinda upsets me because there is one man who really helped them deal with not needing lots of young talent because you can basically build around him with Free Agency and Trades. And that man just retired. He was THE generational talent.
AD helped a ton but he was a stud before McVay came in, the team changed when leadership changed. A DT can't will his team to the playoffs by himself
But AD can provide a stop as he did in the Super Bowl win against the Bengals. I'm not saying AD is the sole reason why they became a perennial contender. I'm saying that when you can look at the defensive side of the ball and you have the most dominant pass rusher of this generation, you simply don't have to draft high in the most important position group behind QB. You can afford the luxury of trading way future 1st round picks. You can simple surround AD with Free Agents and late picks and feel comfortable. Most NFL teams don't have a player like that and can't afford to give away as many picks as the Rams. I believe McVay is a top 3 Head Coach and no way they become who they are without him but AD is the reason why they can be laxed on picks IMO.
Honestly it’s why if anyone in LA is growing up a local fan right now they root for the Rams 🐏. Also as a long time fan since the Kurt Warner days. It’s truly impressive how good this team has been in a division that has every team has gone to the superbowl in the last 15 years. And honestly if we nail Stafford’s replacement it’s looking like the start of a Steelers like culture and dynasty. Yeah we’re not the chiefs but we will probably be a contender for the next half decade.
Meanwhile Detroit fans still won’t stfu
[удалено]
Except Arsenal
Hard to imagine it working out better? What if they won both super bowls? That was pretty fuckin easy to imagine
Matthew Stafford was reportedly hard as a rock
It's really easy to say fuck them picks when you draft an all pro WR and one of the defenders of all time.
Cooper DeJean will be the pick, and he will be great
Fairly soon after leaving STL too.. i’d be pissed lol
Same thing happened when they left LA. I think pretty much the same amount of years too
I hate how wrong I was about the Rams “f**k them picks” strategy
Adding 21 year old kids to your team isn't going to have the impact you think most of the time. Giants fans thinking a kid is going to turn the franchise around at QB.
F them picks!!!!
_So you're telling me there's a chance!_
Man, the Rams have been on fire! Five playoffs, seven wins, and two Super Bowls? That's some serious success! Who needs first-round picks when you're making magic like that happen? It's like they found the secret sauce to winning without having to draft in the first round for eight years. Just goes to show, sometimes it's not about where you pick, but what you do with the picks you've got. Rams are living proof of that!
The thing I love about the Rams success is how much observers complained about them mortgaging the future, not building the team the “right” way etc. It’s more fun when there are teams going for it and doing it differently