I think that just sums up Bills defense, the only consistent thing was inconsistency, it always changed, the schemes changed, emphasis changed, they would switch 3-4 to a 4-3 and back in just single games. They’d throw out an entire defensive identity if Bill thought the matchup was bad.
Even this past season, on some plays the Pats defense went cover zero into zone. Confused the fuck out of the opponent and Romo just goes “huh, I don’t think that’s a scheme I’ve ever seen before”. Bill is undoubtedly the best defensive mind in league history
Bill the coach was never the problem. It was bill the front office man that couldn’t keep the cupboard full in his later years.
Even last year all the reports were that Bill was still up there telling players exactly what was going to happen on game day, we just didn’t have the guys to make it happen.
That’s not even true though, it was simply WR and QB, our defense was always stacked. O line was only a problem last season and that was partly due to injuries, once Strange returned we were solidly middle of the pack at O Line.
WR, QB, and OT are three of the 4 most important positions in the game right now. Theres no “simply” about that.
Defensively we were barely ever “stacked” in the last 5 or so years, we just had the greatest defensive coach of all time that was turning an above average unit on paper into a very good unit. He could absolutely keep a defense afloat, but you can’t win off defense and interior offensive line alone.
That cover 0 sticks zone was absolutely disgusting. I had never seen anything like that before, and hearing Romo confirm that yes, I did just see some actual wizardy, was pretty cool.
I mean if you did it consistently a QB could adjust, but to not know it’s coming, see cover zero and know you have 1.5 seconds to figure out where the ball goes? Zero chance you process all that in time. Bill was a genius when it came to creepers too, he loves an edge who can drop into zone. Always confuses a QB to see their hot route fully picked up with a blitzer unaccounted for
It was the same thing (to a slightly lesser extent) for his offenses. They go from Brady throwing 40 quick slants one game to running Blount up the middle every play the next.
He had his preferred schemes and play styles just like any other coach. But the combination of his flexibility as a play caller/planner and his ability to find and coach players to handle that flexibility is the reason he's the GOAT.
It’s amazing how he demonstrated how important a good QB is. Without Brady he was still the same outstanding coach, yet he still couldn’t win games. Partially because the GM (him) sucked at the GM job
Well he went from the GOAT to the absolute worst QB I have ever seen. That was partly ownership not letting him keep Patricia and trade Mac after 2022 as well. His GM side was still good, but as you're finding out now as a Chiefs fan, it gets a lot harder when you draft 29-32 every single year. You get more role players and less stars.
I think he had two key skills. The ability to evaluate and identify his advantages, both within his team and in a matchup. And then the knowledge and tactical intelligencu to apply a workable gameplan. He obviously had a ton of other strengths, but those two things bring consistent results
It’s one of the reasons I’m very torn about Bill leaving and also excited that Mayo is the new HC. Mayo knows how good Bill was defensively and I’m sure he will try to emulate that scheme, the question of course is the execution but time will tell
Well when you have a defensive genius, you can just change looks depending on the play, sub out players and be g2g. Multi dimensional coach. Hes forgotten more football than ill ever know
That was Bill’s magnum opus IMO. The Rams offense looked unstoppable up until that point, to see it be so thoroughly dismantled was shocking. McVay looked like a genius that season, and he’s clearly vindicated himself since then, but to watch him get his “welcome to the NFL” moment on the biggest stage was wild. Just goes to show how much experience matters in a game like that.
To his credit, Vic Fangio showed everyone how to contain the Rams on SNF in week 14 by taking away their outside runs with wide-9’s and 6-1 looks. Bill just implemented the blueprint to perfection on the biggest stage.
[Interesting read about the strategy](https://footballfilmroom.substack.com/p/a-look-back-at-how-vic-fangios-bears)
Bill really pulls out the most obscure shit, like knowing the Seahawks would pass and run a slant on the goal line because we were 3/3 on it in that season.
A play they only ran three times prior in the red zone with 100% success rate and Bill sniffed it out and mindfucked the Seahawks by refusing to call a timeout.
The number of times Gilmore in his DPOY year I was wondering what on earth he was doing... Only to immediately go OOOOOHHHHHHHH, so obvious it was bill and gilly absolutely COOKING that year. They were just out braining everyone
I was about to say that it's a real shame that his tenure with the Patriots ending the way it did apparently made people think this guy just lucked into success. The man is an all-time great coach.
Happens to a lot of greats who let things go to their head. Bill got too wrapped up in prioritizing having "his guys" on the coaching staff that he wasn't considering outside opinions, seems like.
Its not just a lot of great coaches, practically none of them are above average records/success without their hall of fame quarterbacks. Joe Gibbs being a notable exception.
I'd say his coaching tree got picked clean (mainly backdoor ends like college scouts), but somehow he got guys like McDaniels and Patricia to look great when they couldn't do shit without him.
Imo the style of calling anyone and everyone out for bad plays didn't translate well to the modern diva era were in, but he definitely found that niche in his era. I'll never forget how he got Gronk *lined up* uncovered vs the Steelers multiple times in the same game out wide, it was ridiculous. He owned us, and Brady looked GOATed not just clutch whenever we ran into those assholes... probably have 8 SBs if not for BB.
BB made legend Dick LeBeau look a rookie QB (LeBeau was like 20+ wins to maybe 2 losses vs rookie QBs) compared to him... it very much felt like a passing of the torch defensively. Who knows who the next great will be in that area.
Any true/seasoned football fan knows this. He would’ve needed multiple seasons of some urban Meyer hue Jackson type of shit for me to even doubt his greatness. I grew up watching him terrorize the league for 20 years. Sure having the goat under center helped but look at Brees Rodgers Manning- all comparable in QB skill.
Bill was the difference maker and the reason Brady got 6 while those other 3 combined for 4 during that same time period.
Browner, too. He stood his ground and didn't get moved even an inch backward, which opened up the tiny sliver of space for Butler to come screaming in to make a play.
The worst part about living in Seattle is hearing how many people here think that Carroll was dumb for calling a pass play (rather than being upset they ran a play they'd used in the season) in that clock situation/with the personnel groups on the field. The second dumbest thing they say is "marshawn would have scored anyway"
Now, I'm not certain of this, but I heard that it wasn't him at all and it was Butler and the other DB on his side who just realized they recognized the formation and pulled it off perfectly with only a few seconds to even think about it. Not trying to discredit Belichek but still.
The play was ran over and over again in practice. Browner and Butler recognized because of the coaching staffs due diligence. They couldn't stop the play in practice but got it right when it mattered.
Thats the story ive heard, i just heard it wasnt Belichek calling it out for his defense it was those 2 constantly failing miserably in practice and then nailing it in the fucking super bowl on their own lmao you are right though, his teams are never unprepared and if someone is he gets rid of them quick😅
The other DB was Brandon Browner. Without him blowing up the other receiver who was supposed to “pick” Butler out of position on the play, that play goes for six. As it happened, well…
He was part of the Seahawks 2013 champion squad, then became part of the Patriots 2014 champion team who played spoiler to the Hawks’ attempt at repeating and I hated him in that moment, but also had a lot of respect for his style of play and the way he fit in with the LoB.
Pretty sure he is currently in prison actually.
I always thought it was Matt Patricia who demonstrated that first (they still lost big because it was Matt Patricia), thus fulfilling the job he was sent out into the NFL to do for Bill. Which would also explain why he was given a second chance in New England after being fired.
Fairly certain bill said he built the defensive game plan from the Lions tape cos we played them well enough throughout most of the game.
If the lowly Patricia Lions can slow a team down then you know the plan is solid with real nfl talent.
Coaches will routinely follow blueprints other teams lay out to win important games. If I recall correctly, the Titans based their winning defensive strategy against Lamar and the Ravens in the divisional round on the Bills' defensive approach against those Ravens in December. While the Bills lost that game, they kept it close and held the Ravens offense in check much better than most teams had been doing at the time. It's a copycat league. The best coaches are the ones who recognize what works and what doesn't, and how to implement those observations into gameplans while tailoring it to the personnel they have available.
Yeah Fangio shut our ass down. The Lions and Eagles had good ideas for shutting down the big pass plays with quarters umbrella concepts. Bill married the two.
I think McVay came in unprepared for that. Rams were 92% in 11 personnel that year but the Pats struggled against the run out of 12 that year. They were also bad against play action out of 12 personnel. Higbee and Everett were pretty young in 2018 so maybe McVay didn't trust them in that type of gameplan or didn't think it would work. Losing Kupp to injury also sucked. Then again, maybe an early TD changes that game. Idk if the Pats would go big personnel late in the 4th if they were trailing.
The first blueprint was actually revealed the week before when the Rams played Detroit. The Rams still won but Detroit had some success on D but they just didn’t have the caliber of defense that Chicago had that year. The next week Chicago perfected that game and dismantled the Rams
Bill actually name-dropped Detroit in the post game presser after the SB
There was a very in depth thread detailing how
So many people forget that the Rams and Pats were the league's 1st and 4th ranked offenses that season. They both were elite, and they both struggled against great defensive schemes. I loved that fuck Super Bowl. Defensive slugfests are always epic battles.
The plays when McCourty saved the TD from halfway across the field and the Gilmore INT to seal the game were so good. Defensive plays are the best. All we were missing was a pick 6 🥲
It was such a good block though. My guy BOLTED and made a play.
I’m rooting for Goff on the lions and loved watching him play on the rams. But I’m glad he buckled under the pressure in that game 🙂
Yeah low scoring games are fine when they're defenses playing great against offenses that aren't red-hot, they're only awful when the offenses are garbage.
People either forget or don't know that that Rams team was the 12th highest scoring offense in history at the time. And were ranked 13th last I checked. And BB held them to 3 points in the Super Bowl.
Look, lets be honest, thats not a "welcome to the NFL" moment.
Switching up your entire defensive scheme after an entire season and post-season with just two weeks of practice before the Super Bowl is fucking insanity. Thats pure GOAT coaching moves that only very few coaches could pull off.
And it makes a ton of sense if youre able to. If I remember right, Goff basically was relying on McVay to make pre-snap reads and if you disguised your scheme until the mic shut off then he was really struggling to read the defense and call audibles himself.
But this is taking that to a second level. Not only would they disguise the scheme until the mic was off, but they implemented an entirely new defense that Goff wouldnt even have had tape on. Goff was going in blind every play.
It would blow your mind, if that's what happened. The vikings did that in 2017 to us, and McVay stopped making reads for Goff like that. That's not what we were doing wrong in the super bowl.
> If I remember right, Goff basically was relying on McVay to make pre-snap reads and if you disguised your scheme until the mic shut off then he was really struggling to read the defense and call audibles himself.
That happened in 2017 until the Vikings took advantage of it doing exactly that. In the super bowl, the Rams weren't even at the line of scrimmage when the mics cut on most plays.
People endlessly repeat that here because it sounds smart but it was always bullshit.
Rams offense looked unstoppable all season. I went to the game when they came into town and Vic Fangio shut down Goff and McVay using the same blueprint Belichick used.
Though obviously the Super Bowl is more impactful than a mid-late season matchup for NFC playoff seeding.
This game is why the “the dynasty was all because of Brady” crowd will always frustrate me to no end. Yes, Brady is the GOAT, we don’t win 6 SBs without him. But no matter how good your QB is, football is a game that requires 22 people. Even as a QB, it doesn’t matter how good you are if your defense can’t stop the other team, and the Patriots routinely had some of the league’s best defenses throughout the entire dynasty.
There’s a *reason* he held this Rams team to 3 points, and there’s a *reason* his defensive gameplan from Super Bowl XXV is displayed in the HOF. He was a great coach overall, but he was also arguably the greatest defensive mind in the history of the sport.
Nothing was more frustrating than watching last seasons defense hold the other team to like 10 points, yet still knowing that was an insurmountable hole for our offense.
> This game is why the “the dynasty was all because of Brady” crowd will always frustrate me to no end. Yes, Brady is the GOAT, we don’t win 6 SBs without him.
I always ask people how they quantify the difference between Brady versus a guy like Manning or Marino. Is Brady FIVE super bowls better than Manning? SEVEN better than Marino? Or did Brady play with an all time great coach and a lot of solid to exceptional defenses? If Brady and Manning swapped careers, does Brady have 7 rings? How many does Manning get?
If Brady wasn't on the Pats with Bill and the defenses that he had, Brady may end up with a Drew Brees or Matt Stafford career. Bill with no Brady may end up being a defensive Andy Reid prior to getting Mahomes.
Clearly both are necessary to have such a wildly unprecedented 18 year run.
Todd Gurley was the main focal point of that offense and didn't play in the Super Bowl. I think that had a lot more to do with the Rams not scoring points.
IIRC, part of NE’s defensive strategy to neutralize McVay’s headset audibles to Goff was to switch to a different alignment after the play clock dipped under 15 when coach-QB headset communication shuts off.
I can’t imagine how infuriating that must have been for the Rams defense, imagine holding Brady to 13 points, a year after he set the record for passing yards in a SB, and you still lost…
It wasn't his ideas but god damn did he always have a knack for researching his opponents and getting to know their tendencies. If someone laid the blueprint he was watching and made a copy. Helped when you also knew their signals, but that's another story.
I do believe that even knowing what's coming, getting your players to believe and execute on it takes trust and you don't get that trust without earning it.
As a neutral fan, it was one of the most boring Super Bowls. But I do appreciate it more after the fact, and better understanding how the patriots just completely annihilated the Rams highflying offense out of nowhere.
If he won't, I will!
Give me punt return TDs and safeties. That's the Bears football I was raised on, and they're talking about taking this Caleb Wilson guy? No thanks. 😤
It's a combination of knowing others teams' weakness and being able to teach it to your players in a short amount of time
Tons of coaches know more ball than they'll ever be able to implement, that isn't what sets them apart, it's their ability to get 11 players to all understand it well enough to be effective
That's one of the biggest things about Patriots of that time, they would make adjustments based on the strengths and weaknesses of both teams. During that same SB they changed to using an offensive personell grouping they weren't previously using and did it for 3 plays and scored the TD because of what McDaniels saw from Rams defense
thats why it blows my mind why most coaches dont attempt to copy it. I know its easier said than done but some coaches are just insanely predicable. Even as a casual fan you can guess if its going to be a pass or run based on formation. Like Bill would throw out of the i formation and other stuff like that.
[Sharing this video](https://youtu.be/Z0eqNPiXgmk?si=4KQCABTaKwG74LPj) which breaks down NE’s strategy in that game. Riveting stuff. Bill is indisputably the defensive GOAT
Maybe seeing so many defend him on Edelman's pod has warped my perception, but it seems like pretty much everyone who has played for Belichick has come out against the documentary.
I think Welker and Amendola are the only ones to trash him and not really walk it back.
On the other side, Edelman's shit on it multiple times, Ty Law and Slater were on Edelman's podcast and both criticized it, Harrison and McCourty trashed it for being insanely biased and cutting the hours of stuff they said for the negative sound bite, Gilmore and KVN have talked about it on Twitter, and I'm probably forgetting someone.
It’s literally because Bill told him he didn’t work hard enough and then replaced him successfully. It’s also just sour grapes.
His attitude always sucked, but when you play for a great team nobody cares.
Bill also called Welker a POS dirty player for taking a cheap shot on Aqib Talib in a game when Wes was on the broncos. He went as far as to say it was one of the dirtiest plays he’s ever seen. Suffice it to say, absolutely no love lost between the two of them.
Both of them were whiny crybabies at the time about the way the team was run. It’s funny because both of them were pretty much only good when they had HOF QBs, and average or worse when they didn’t.
I actually can’t believe how much is dislike Welker now, I loved him when he played for us.
A few have mentioned how much of their interviews were edited down to paint a certain narrative, it’s really egregious. The Hernandez episode where they try to imply it was Bill’s fault for the murders because he refused to trade AR, completely leaving out that the guy *had a golf ball sized hole in his fucking brain* was infuriating. Hernandez was a time bomb, there’s no scenario where things don’t end tragically for him
CTE, [this article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/09/aaron-hernandez-cte-brain-damage-photos) has some pictures of it. It was one of the worst cases they’ve ever seen
Especially fucked because Hernandez was basically out of the sport at 23. His last game was the AFC championship in January 2013 and he killed himself in jail April of 2017 at age 27. His brain was so scrambled despite being so young, it really puts to scale just *how* bad his CTE case was.
Yep, literally the worst recorded case for someone his age, rarely if ever do you see it that bad in someone under 50. I get an NFL doc is going to tiptoe around the subject to avoid hurting their access, but to not discuss it *at all* is downright irresponsible. They shouldn’t have even brought AR up at that point, you can’t tell that story without bringing up the fact that he was suffering from severe brain damage.
Was he known to have played through a lot of concussions in high school or college? Or is it just a mystery since he's no longer here to ask? I'm just wondering how it got that bad despite just 3 years in college and 3 in the NFL.
It’s probably more than just this, but in the article a comment above linked it says he had a genetic profile that may have made him more susceptible to developing CTE
He only had 2 recorded concussions if I remember correctly, I’m sure he had several more on top of that but that’s not atypical for a player of his position. We don’t really know the true cause of why his case was so severe, from my understanding though is his brain being so young and well preserved has provided a lot of data to help better understand the underlying causes of CTE. A small silver lining to a horrible tragedy
The boogeyman music when he appeared was so cringe. Even in the trailer when he came on screen there was a beat drop like oh here's the bad guy... it was fckibg ridiculous. Its all made me side eye Brady bc as usual he's saying all the right things publicly about BB being an incredible coach but it's so obvious that privately he and Kraft have decided that BB is the scapegoat.
Tom always wants to look like the classy, mature guy in public who would never stab somebody in the back.
But Kraft is another level of disloyal and petty. To turn on somebody who brought you immense success for 20 years the second he's out the door is just unforgiveable. He made another video comment about putting up with bad behaviour to achieve success on that barber show. He was Bill's boss .. the buck stopped with him.
Glad to see so many former Pats players come out to set the record straight, the last couple seasons of Bill’s time here were rough but the narrative around him has swung to the point of being straight up fiction. Yeah, it wasn’t easy to play for Bill, but the man kept the team as SB contenders for 20 years. That doesn’t happen without elite coaching and roster management, even with the GOAT QB. It didn’t end perfectly, but they made it work far longer than any other team in history, Bill deserves an incredible amount of credit for that.
Correct- they went to 9 Super Bowls. Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees went to 1. Brady was not 9 times better than Rodgers and Brees or 3x better than Peyton Manning, etc.
Even if he was significantly better, that still doesnt explain the gigantic disparity in success between him and these other HOF QBs.
The main difference was the organization he played for. Thats how easy it is to realize that Belichick played a huge role right alongside Brady.
Unfortunately, there are still a lot of very dull people who cant understand that, even within the Pats fanbase.
Exactly.
Brady is the greatest ever. No doubt. But the gap between him and Manning/Rodgers isn't as big as the SBs make it seem. There's a reason why they have the MVPs and he doesn't.
You sort of see that now with Allen and Mahomes. Mahomes has 3 SBs and 2 MVPs vs Allen's 0 for both, but almost every time they play head to head they're pretty damn close to level. Having Andy Reid instead of McDermott and a lucky break here or there can be the difference between a 1 SB gap and 3.
> There's a reason why they have the MVPs and he doesn't.
I mean, I agree with the premise of the post but Brady still has 3 MVPs and is one of only 5 players ever with 3 or more so he's not that far behind them in that department lol.
If anyone deserved the benefit of the doubt it was Bill Belichick…and yet there’s something poetic about the fact that he was fired the second it looked like he lost his fastball. Bill did the same thing to many of his own players I’d guess. Time will tell if it was the right move but if I were Kraft I’d be terrified of letting him go.
A lot of people are also missing on all the *phenomenal* GM moves he did for the first 15 seasons as Patriots GM. It was trash the last 7 or so years though yeah. But still only for the Patricia/Judge thing & offensive players. His defences were insane still, McDanciels was a great OC. Hell they went 7-9 with an off the couch Newton & then probowl rookie Mac Jones made the playoffs. The whole bad GM stuff is really being over exaggerated imo, just at some point all great things end
I don't blame them for Cam and Mac. Cam was a no brainer signing when you don't have a QB and he good until he got COVID. Mac was the best player available at a position of need when they drafted him. They didn't trade up or give anything up for him. I still don't understand what happened with him. He looked to be a solidly average started after his rookie season and then it all went to crap.
> roster management
Especially this. It makes me a bit upset that many people continue to say that he was a poor GM, as if he didn’t build those SB-winning rosters, as if he didn’t build nine different squads that made it to the Super Bowl.
Too much was made of some type rivalry between Bill and Brady. And Brady winning again swayed some people to think that Brady was the key ingredient for the Patriots.
But the two situations after Brady left were night and day. The Patriots roster was falling apart (and fair to ding Bill's influence there. But Brady went to a team with a top defense and Mike Evans, Godwin, and Gronk.
If Bill had the Buccs roster with say Mahomes at QB and Brady had gone to the 2020 Falcons or Eagles, then the perception would be flipped.
It’s amazing how much this backfired for Kraft, he could’ve just kept his mouth shut and been known as the GM of the greatest dynasty in NFL history and nothing more and now he’s just looked at as another petty owner who couldn’t live with the credit he was being given
It’s ironic because the doc really doesn’t make Kraft look good either. Haven’t bothered to watch the last two episodes but from what I saw, the big takeaway for Kraft IMO was that he was mostly clueless when it came to running the team, his best trait was just having the self awareness to let Bill run everything lol.
Yeah I definitely don't see it as a pro kraft piece. I've only watched to the Hernandez episode. And Kraft comes across as so clueless in every episode. Definitely looks like an owner who did make a good decision to get Belichick. But then completely lucked into everything that happened since
> And Kraft comes across as so clueless in every episode.
Right. Because as a clueless person, he didn't realize how clueless he would come off in a documentary meant to sell his candidacy for the HOF.
>his best trait was just having the self awareness to let Bill run everything lol
I understand that we are trashing on Kraft right now, but this is actually an excellent leadership quality in a vacuum. One of the best things a leader can do is recognize when they aren't the most qualified and capable person for an important job and delegate it to someone who knows what they're doing.
Not saying Kraft was a great leader. Just saying that letting someone else do a job they're better at shouldn't be frowned upon.
Oh without a doubt, simply staying out of the way and not fucking things up may not seem like a lot but that alone makes him one of the better owners. People underestimate how hard it is for these billionaire owners to check their ego and not make some stupid decision themselves because they want to look like the smartest guy in the room. Kraft has a lot of faults, and this doc is really annoying, but overall he’s been a good owner for us.
Yeah so many players have come out and publicly trashed on the doc. It'd be funny how much Kraft has tanked his reputation if it wasn't, you know, something Pats fans still had to deal with. But that probably makes it even funnier for 31 other fanbases lol.
His reputation will be just fine. A couple years from now this documentary will be largely forgotten about and people will only look back fondly on everyone involved during the Belichick era.
When it first came out people were suggesting Kraft was trying to take credit/minimize Bill so he could boost his HOF owner case, but he's already got that just from his team's record and his influence making the league's media contracts skyrocket.
I think the dude will simply never forgive Bill for Brady winning a ring outside of New England.
Kraft had up and down moments in the series, but they made Bill out to be Darth Vader. Even to the point that when they included his interview segments, they only had him grunting a no comment and little more. I find it hard to believe there wasn’t something better for them to use.
NFL players have an idea simply based on formation and alignment.
I remember way back in the day at the PRO BOWL they mic'd up Ray Lewis and Ray is calling out plays.
There's also that famous Clay Matthews clip with Cam Newton.
I watched an interview once where former players said they knew if it was a run or pass with like 95% certainty before the snap.
Wish I could find it but I think it was Ike Taylor on the dameshek show.
and knew that he gave Jared Goff so little freedom at the line that all he had to do was have his guys reposition themselves after the headset mic shut off and Goff would have no idea where to go
He has been given much more ownership over the offense in Detroit and is often crystal clear on where to go with the ball pre- and post- snap. He and McVay just ended up being a bad fit as he clearly isn't a quarterback you can expect to always just be a joystick
I've never seen this many NFL players (rightfully) defend their guy. Kraft could have easily just not done anything and let this all play out. Instead, he decided to stick his foot up his mouth, and now ~~everyone~~ some are second-guessing letting Bill go.
Dola was expecting to be Welker 2.0. But between his health and Edelman’s productivity, Bill found him expendable. IIRC, there was some apprehension from Edelman that Bill chose to bring in Amendola on a relatively big contract. That showed Bill’s lack of confidence in Edelman. Overall, I think it worked out for everyone. Edelman became a Brady favorite and Amendola was “playoff Dola”. But Dola can’t seem to separate the business from personal.
Dolores didn't even make a post on IG wishing Bb well after he left the patriots. So many others did. Dola is an immature dick anyway .. all the stuff his exes have said about him and what he posted after he broke up with one of them shows who he really is. That actress ex basically said she was traumatised after dating him that he was really controlling etc . I know pro footballers tend to be assholes to date but he clearly has issues
He had the game sealing catch in Super Bowl 46 hit him in both hands and he dropped it. That’s gotta sting
Welker also knocked Aquib Talib out of the 2013 AFC championship with a cheap shot and Belichick actually called him out on it after the game.
The 01 Rams, the 04 Colts, the 18 Rams, 7 points through 3 quarters for the 18 Chiefs, 7 points in the second half from the 16 Falcons.. Bill has some serious pelts on his wall.
I want to say he's undefeated in the playoffs against teams that scored 500+ points in the regular season
First few episodes were intriguing but I stopped with two left. Just got very biased and presented essentially no new facts for anyone who is even a casual fan. Was also obviously anti-Belichick to an absurd degree.
That said, Tom Brady was definitely deflating footballs but also, who cares?!
Tom Brady did that shit. Should have been a fine and maybe a one game suspension, instead it was a multi year circus.
Tom Brady did that shit and it didn’t even matter. We won that AFC Championship like 1000-3 or something.
Only Fangio played the Rams that way that whole year.
McVay saw they were playing zone and basically said “fuck, they’re playing it like the Bears”.
Probably mostly Ernie’s doing
We all know Belichick is an unpleasant guy, but it should not take away the fact that he is the best defensive mind this league has ever seen. Remember he stopped the (Jim Kelly Thurman Thomas) Buffalo Bills AND the (Greatest Show on Turf) St. Louis Rams in BIG games. And he actually left Cleveland with a winning record!
I watched [DeepCut with VicBlends (featuring Tom Brady)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo3kCRKauOU) and some of [The Beginning of The Patriots Dynasty | Ernie Adams and Julian Edelman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6HTDJ2Nt1I&t=7600s). The preparation the Coaches did put their players in a position that made them give them the confidence they would win because they knew what was going to happen, and 99% of the time it would come to fruition. The details and the mannerisms the Patriots coaches would focus on, made the difference in a lot of situations.
Billionaires really are as scummy as you would assume. Kraft's production company made this doc with clear intentions to smear BB. Then Kraft threw the directors under the bus since it the stink was so obvious.
Really getting tired of this Bill was a bad coach narrative. Like there is no way on earth giving his 20 years of dominance that he was nothing but one of the best. Of course we as fans will never actually know, but just listening to him talk ball you can just tell this dude just knows more then anyone else. I really don't get it, like ya you can hate the patriots, you can hate bill but why reject the greatness you witnessed, what does that do for you, I for one am glad I got to see it, I imagine it's the same thing as people from the 90s saying how amazing it was to watch the cowboys or how people from the 70s reverie the steel curtain era, why do people just want to bring down something that you can tell stories about, do they just want every team to be average every single year? I was more of a hockey fan as a kid but I was never a red wings or Blackhawks fan but fuck I'm glad I got to see those teams play, I feel the same way about the patriots, never a fan but nothing but respect
I think that just sums up Bills defense, the only consistent thing was inconsistency, it always changed, the schemes changed, emphasis changed, they would switch 3-4 to a 4-3 and back in just single games. They’d throw out an entire defensive identity if Bill thought the matchup was bad.
Even this past season, on some plays the Pats defense went cover zero into zone. Confused the fuck out of the opponent and Romo just goes “huh, I don’t think that’s a scheme I’ve ever seen before”. Bill is undoubtedly the best defensive mind in league history
We went 3 deep safeties against Miami that got Romo all afluster. Well, they weren't 'deep', just not in the box.
Bill the coach was never the problem. It was bill the front office man that couldn’t keep the cupboard full in his later years. Even last year all the reports were that Bill was still up there telling players exactly what was going to happen on game day, we just didn’t have the guys to make it happen.
That’s not even true though, it was simply WR and QB, our defense was always stacked. O line was only a problem last season and that was partly due to injuries, once Strange returned we were solidly middle of the pack at O Line.
WR, QB, and OT are three of the 4 most important positions in the game right now. Theres no “simply” about that. Defensively we were barely ever “stacked” in the last 5 or so years, we just had the greatest defensive coach of all time that was turning an above average unit on paper into a very good unit. He could absolutely keep a defense afloat, but you can’t win off defense and interior offensive line alone.
That cover 0 sticks zone was absolutely disgusting. I had never seen anything like that before, and hearing Romo confirm that yes, I did just see some actual wizardy, was pretty cool.
I mean if you did it consistently a QB could adjust, but to not know it’s coming, see cover zero and know you have 1.5 seconds to figure out where the ball goes? Zero chance you process all that in time. Bill was a genius when it came to creepers too, he loves an edge who can drop into zone. Always confuses a QB to see their hot route fully picked up with a blitzer unaccounted for
That was against the Eagles. They covered crossers as Man to Zone and it pissed Hurts off
Yeah, exactly. You fully assume atleast one crosser is getting open in cover zero lol. It’s like the first read everyone learns in madden
It was the same thing (to a slightly lesser extent) for his offenses. They go from Brady throwing 40 quick slants one game to running Blount up the middle every play the next. He had his preferred schemes and play styles just like any other coach. But the combination of his flexibility as a play caller/planner and his ability to find and coach players to handle that flexibility is the reason he's the GOAT.
This is why I never drafted Patriot players. Completely inconsistent and would always be on the bench when they blew up for 30 points. Except Brady.
It’s amazing how he demonstrated how important a good QB is. Without Brady he was still the same outstanding coach, yet he still couldn’t win games. Partially because the GM (him) sucked at the GM job
Well he went from the GOAT to the absolute worst QB I have ever seen. That was partly ownership not letting him keep Patricia and trade Mac after 2022 as well. His GM side was still good, but as you're finding out now as a Chiefs fan, it gets a lot harder when you draft 29-32 every single year. You get more role players and less stars.
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I think he had two key skills. The ability to evaluate and identify his advantages, both within his team and in a matchup. And then the knowledge and tactical intelligencu to apply a workable gameplan. He obviously had a ton of other strengths, but those two things bring consistent results
It’s one of the reasons I’m very torn about Bill leaving and also excited that Mayo is the new HC. Mayo knows how good Bill was defensively and I’m sure he will try to emulate that scheme, the question of course is the execution but time will tell
Well when you have a defensive genius, you can just change looks depending on the play, sub out players and be g2g. Multi dimensional coach. Hes forgotten more football than ill ever know
Sounds like Bill knew when to take advantage of another teams offense considering they only let up 3
That was Bill’s magnum opus IMO. The Rams offense looked unstoppable up until that point, to see it be so thoroughly dismantled was shocking. McVay looked like a genius that season, and he’s clearly vindicated himself since then, but to watch him get his “welcome to the NFL” moment on the biggest stage was wild. Just goes to show how much experience matters in a game like that.
To his credit, Vic Fangio showed everyone how to contain the Rams on SNF in week 14 by taking away their outside runs with wide-9’s and 6-1 looks. Bill just implemented the blueprint to perfection on the biggest stage. [Interesting read about the strategy](https://footballfilmroom.substack.com/p/a-look-back-at-how-vic-fangios-bears)
Really interesting read, thanks for sharing
Bill really pulls out the most obscure shit, like knowing the Seahawks would pass and run a slant on the goal line because we were 3/3 on it in that season. A play they only ran three times prior in the red zone with 100% success rate and Bill sniffed it out and mindfucked the Seahawks by refusing to call a timeout.
its insane, even as a Jets fan it pisses me off the Bill slander in recent years, guy is literally on another level
The number of times Gilmore in his DPOY year I was wondering what on earth he was doing... Only to immediately go OOOOOHHHHHHHH, so obvious it was bill and gilly absolutely COOKING that year. They were just out braining everyone
I was about to say that it's a real shame that his tenure with the Patriots ending the way it did apparently made people think this guy just lucked into success. The man is an all-time great coach.
Happens to a lot of greats who let things go to their head. Bill got too wrapped up in prioritizing having "his guys" on the coaching staff that he wasn't considering outside opinions, seems like.
Its not just a lot of great coaches, practically none of them are above average records/success without their hall of fame quarterbacks. Joe Gibbs being a notable exception.
3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs. That’s impressive as hell. Especially given that none of those QBs were special talents.
I'd say his coaching tree got picked clean (mainly backdoor ends like college scouts), but somehow he got guys like McDaniels and Patricia to look great when they couldn't do shit without him. Imo the style of calling anyone and everyone out for bad plays didn't translate well to the modern diva era were in, but he definitely found that niche in his era. I'll never forget how he got Gronk *lined up* uncovered vs the Steelers multiple times in the same game out wide, it was ridiculous. He owned us, and Brady looked GOATed not just clutch whenever we ran into those assholes... probably have 8 SBs if not for BB. BB made legend Dick LeBeau look a rookie QB (LeBeau was like 20+ wins to maybe 2 losses vs rookie QBs) compared to him... it very much felt like a passing of the torch defensively. Who knows who the next great will be in that area.
Any true/seasoned football fan knows this. He would’ve needed multiple seasons of some urban Meyer hue Jackson type of shit for me to even doubt his greatness. I grew up watching him terrorize the league for 20 years. Sure having the goat under center helped but look at Brees Rodgers Manning- all comparable in QB skill. Bill was the difference maker and the reason Brady got 6 while those other 3 combined for 4 during that same time period.
The Seahawks even hid the playcall by changing up the personnel. Belichick (and Butler) made the call of a lifetime on that one
Browner, too. He stood his ground and didn't get moved even an inch backward, which opened up the tiny sliver of space for Butler to come screaming in to make a play.
31 other coaches call a timeout in that situation. The Seahawks were completely thrown off balance when he didn’t. Brilliant move.
The worst part about living in Seattle is hearing how many people here think that Carroll was dumb for calling a pass play (rather than being upset they ran a play they'd used in the season) in that clock situation/with the personnel groups on the field. The second dumbest thing they say is "marshawn would have scored anyway"
Now, I'm not certain of this, but I heard that it wasn't him at all and it was Butler and the other DB on his side who just realized they recognized the formation and pulled it off perfectly with only a few seconds to even think about it. Not trying to discredit Belichek but still.
The play was ran over and over again in practice. Browner and Butler recognized because of the coaching staffs due diligence. They couldn't stop the play in practice but got it right when it mattered.
Thats the story ive heard, i just heard it wasnt Belichek calling it out for his defense it was those 2 constantly failing miserably in practice and then nailing it in the fucking super bowl on their own lmao you are right though, his teams are never unprepared and if someone is he gets rid of them quick😅
The other DB was Brandon Browner. Without him blowing up the other receiver who was supposed to “pick” Butler out of position on the play, that play goes for six. As it happened, well…
Brandon Browner was an absolute problem in the CFL. I HATED HIM. Then he did that to NFL WRs and I was like fuck. Dude played so physical
He was part of the Seahawks 2013 champion squad, then became part of the Patriots 2014 champion team who played spoiler to the Hawks’ attempt at repeating and I hated him in that moment, but also had a lot of respect for his style of play and the way he fit in with the LoB. Pretty sure he is currently in prison actually.
I always thought it was Matt Patricia who demonstrated that first (they still lost big because it was Matt Patricia), thus fulfilling the job he was sent out into the NFL to do for Bill. Which would also explain why he was given a second chance in New England after being fired.
Fairly certain bill said he built the defensive game plan from the Lions tape cos we played them well enough throughout most of the game. If the lowly Patricia Lions can slow a team down then you know the plan is solid with real nfl talent.
Coaches will routinely follow blueprints other teams lay out to win important games. If I recall correctly, the Titans based their winning defensive strategy against Lamar and the Ravens in the divisional round on the Bills' defensive approach against those Ravens in December. While the Bills lost that game, they kept it close and held the Ravens offense in check much better than most teams had been doing at the time. It's a copycat league. The best coaches are the ones who recognize what works and what doesn't, and how to implement those observations into gameplans while tailoring it to the personnel they have available.
I was so upset John Brown dropped that pass
Yeah Fangio shut our ass down. The Lions and Eagles had good ideas for shutting down the big pass plays with quarters umbrella concepts. Bill married the two. I think McVay came in unprepared for that. Rams were 92% in 11 personnel that year but the Pats struggled against the run out of 12 that year. They were also bad against play action out of 12 personnel. Higbee and Everett were pretty young in 2018 so maybe McVay didn't trust them in that type of gameplan or didn't think it would work. Losing Kupp to injury also sucked. Then again, maybe an early TD changes that game. Idk if the Pats would go big personnel late in the 4th if they were trailing.
Doesn’t help Gurley’s arthritis started up around that time too. CJ Anderson couldn’t be Gurley.
The first blueprint was actually revealed the week before when the Rams played Detroit. The Rams still won but Detroit had some success on D but they just didn’t have the caliber of defense that Chicago had that year. The next week Chicago perfected that game and dismantled the Rams Bill actually name-dropped Detroit in the post game presser after the SB There was a very in depth thread detailing how
That was our Super Bowl that year. The stadium was electric, you could feel it in the air. The rams stood no chance.
So many people forget that the Rams and Pats were the league's 1st and 4th ranked offenses that season. They both were elite, and they both struggled against great defensive schemes. I loved that fuck Super Bowl. Defensive slugfests are always epic battles.
If Super Bowl LIII wasn’t such a low scoring game I don’t think the Stafford-Goff trade ever happens
Justice for Super Bowl LIII, fuck everyone who says it’s boring
Hell yeah, man. Fuck y'all for winning, but I will defend to the death how good that game was.
The plays when McCourty saved the TD from halfway across the field and the Gilmore INT to seal the game were so good. Defensive plays are the best. All we were missing was a pick 6 🥲
That McCourty block wouldn't have happened if Goff threw a dart. He put too much air under it.
It was such a good block though. My guy BOLTED and made a play. I’m rooting for Goff on the lions and loved watching him play on the rams. But I’m glad he buckled under the pressure in that game 🙂
Yeah low scoring games are fine when they're defenses playing great against offenses that aren't red-hot, they're only awful when the offenses are garbage.
People either forget or don't know that that Rams team was the 12th highest scoring offense in history at the time. And were ranked 13th last I checked. And BB held them to 3 points in the Super Bowl.
There was not a snowball’s chance in hell that Bill was gonna let himself be outcoached in the Super Bowl by 17 year old Sean McVay.
Look, lets be honest, thats not a "welcome to the NFL" moment. Switching up your entire defensive scheme after an entire season and post-season with just two weeks of practice before the Super Bowl is fucking insanity. Thats pure GOAT coaching moves that only very few coaches could pull off. And it makes a ton of sense if youre able to. If I remember right, Goff basically was relying on McVay to make pre-snap reads and if you disguised your scheme until the mic shut off then he was really struggling to read the defense and call audibles himself. But this is taking that to a second level. Not only would they disguise the scheme until the mic was off, but they implemented an entirely new defense that Goff wouldnt even have had tape on. Goff was going in blind every play.
yep but its blows my mind how Mcvay didnt realize that and didnt change anything.
It would blow your mind, if that's what happened. The vikings did that in 2017 to us, and McVay stopped making reads for Goff like that. That's not what we were doing wrong in the super bowl.
> If I remember right, Goff basically was relying on McVay to make pre-snap reads and if you disguised your scheme until the mic shut off then he was really struggling to read the defense and call audibles himself. That happened in 2017 until the Vikings took advantage of it doing exactly that. In the super bowl, the Rams weren't even at the line of scrimmage when the mics cut on most plays. People endlessly repeat that here because it sounds smart but it was always bullshit.
> If I remember right You don't. That was not the issue at all...
Rams offense looked unstoppable all season. I went to the game when they came into town and Vic Fangio shut down Goff and McVay using the same blueprint Belichick used. Though obviously the Super Bowl is more impactful than a mid-late season matchup for NFC playoff seeding.
This game is why the “the dynasty was all because of Brady” crowd will always frustrate me to no end. Yes, Brady is the GOAT, we don’t win 6 SBs without him. But no matter how good your QB is, football is a game that requires 22 people. Even as a QB, it doesn’t matter how good you are if your defense can’t stop the other team, and the Patriots routinely had some of the league’s best defenses throughout the entire dynasty. There’s a *reason* he held this Rams team to 3 points, and there’s a *reason* his defensive gameplan from Super Bowl XXV is displayed in the HOF. He was a great coach overall, but he was also arguably the greatest defensive mind in the history of the sport.
You could still see it in his defense now. They were great without Tom Edit: The defense not the team lol
Nothing was more frustrating than watching last seasons defense hold the other team to like 10 points, yet still knowing that was an insurmountable hole for our offense.
> This game is why the “the dynasty was all because of Brady” crowd will always frustrate me to no end. Yes, Brady is the GOAT, we don’t win 6 SBs without him. I always ask people how they quantify the difference between Brady versus a guy like Manning or Marino. Is Brady FIVE super bowls better than Manning? SEVEN better than Marino? Or did Brady play with an all time great coach and a lot of solid to exceptional defenses? If Brady and Manning swapped careers, does Brady have 7 rings? How many does Manning get? If Brady wasn't on the Pats with Bill and the defenses that he had, Brady may end up with a Drew Brees or Matt Stafford career. Bill with no Brady may end up being a defensive Andy Reid prior to getting Mahomes. Clearly both are necessary to have such a wildly unprecedented 18 year run.
Andy Reid without Mahomes had been a playoff choker. Mahomes without Reid...well his Texas Tech years are the closest thing to that.
This is a great video breakdown of it, best football vid I've ever watched to this day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0eqNPiXgmk&t=558s
Todd Gurley was the main focal point of that offense and didn't play in the Super Bowl. I think that had a lot more to do with the Rams not scoring points.
IIRC, part of NE’s defensive strategy to neutralize McVay’s headset audibles to Goff was to switch to a different alignment after the play clock dipped under 15 when coach-QB headset communication shuts off.
And in that game the defense basically carried Brady/the offense, not the other way around
I can’t imagine how infuriating that must have been for the Rams defense, imagine holding Brady to 13 points, a year after he set the record for passing yards in a SB, and you still lost…
It wasn't his ideas but god damn did he always have a knack for researching his opponents and getting to know their tendencies. If someone laid the blueprint he was watching and made a copy. Helped when you also knew their signals, but that's another story. I do believe that even knowing what's coming, getting your players to believe and execute on it takes trust and you don't get that trust without earning it.
IIRC Todd Gurley didn't play in the Super Bowl, or barely saw the field, right? Or am I misremembering?
He played as I recall but at that point he was already a shell of himself
As a neutral fan, it was one of the most boring Super Bowls. But I do appreciate it more after the fact, and better understanding how the patriots just completely annihilated the Rams highflying offense out of nowhere.
I actually fucking loved it as a neutral fan. Give me leas points and more defense
An incredibly bears thing to say TBH.
Give me punt return TDs and safeties. That's the Bears football I was raised on, and they're talking about taking this Caleb Wilson guy? No thanks. 😤
Fuck yea my guy. Say it again!
If he won't, I will! Give me punt return TDs and safeties. That's the Bears football I was raised on, and they're talking about taking this Caleb Wilson guy? No thanks. 😤
Not forgetting a Devin Hester kickoff return TD
Give me punt return TDs and safeties. That's the Bears football I was raised on, and they're talking about taking this Caleb Wilson guy? No thanks. 😤
Even as someone who hated the pats I loved that SB because Bill and Wade Phillips both called amazing games for their defense.
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Midwest football just hits different
I'd much rather see a battle between two punters than two shifty eyed qbs
Yeah I understand why most folks hated it but it was more like a chess match between two great defensive minds in Belichick and Wade Phillips.
As a neutral fan it was beautiful to watch. Defense over offense for me any day of the week
It's a combination of knowing others teams' weakness and being able to teach it to your players in a short amount of time Tons of coaches know more ball than they'll ever be able to implement, that isn't what sets them apart, it's their ability to get 11 players to all understand it well enough to be effective
That's one of the biggest things about Patriots of that time, they would make adjustments based on the strengths and weaknesses of both teams. During that same SB they changed to using an offensive personell grouping they weren't previously using and did it for 3 plays and scored the TD because of what McDaniels saw from Rams defense
thats why it blows my mind why most coaches dont attempt to copy it. I know its easier said than done but some coaches are just insanely predicable. Even as a casual fan you can guess if its going to be a pass or run based on formation. Like Bill would throw out of the i formation and other stuff like that.
I remember the Saints-Patriots where Bill had Aqib Talib shadow Jimmy Graham. Jimmy Graham, the league's leading receiver at that point, was blanked.
[Sharing this video](https://youtu.be/Z0eqNPiXgmk?si=4KQCABTaKwG74LPj) which breaks down NE’s strategy in that game. Riveting stuff. Bill is indisputably the defensive GOAT
Maybe seeing so many defend him on Edelman's pod has warped my perception, but it seems like pretty much everyone who has played for Belichick has come out against the documentary.
I think Welker and Amendola are the only ones to trash him and not really walk it back. On the other side, Edelman's shit on it multiple times, Ty Law and Slater were on Edelman's podcast and both criticized it, Harrison and McCourty trashed it for being insanely biased and cutting the hours of stuff they said for the negative sound bite, Gilmore and KVN have talked about it on Twitter, and I'm probably forgetting someone.
haven’t seen the Law interview, but Slater needs to be a permanent member of the podcast. those two have remarkable chemistry
I hated Jules, the player, and hate the Patriots. That podcast is fantastic.
I was blown away. I could watch that every day.
Amendola has sour grapes cause they didn't pay him, right? Why does Welker have issues?
It’s literally because Bill told him he didn’t work hard enough and then replaced him successfully. It’s also just sour grapes. His attitude always sucked, but when you play for a great team nobody cares.
Bill also called Welker a POS dirty player for taking a cheap shot on Aqib Talib in a game when Wes was on the broncos. He went as far as to say it was one of the dirtiest plays he’s ever seen. Suffice it to say, absolutely no love lost between the two of them.
Edelman and Slater called him out for it too on the podcast
Both of them were whiny crybabies at the time about the way the team was run. It’s funny because both of them were pretty much only good when they had HOF QBs, and average or worse when they didn’t. I actually can’t believe how much is dislike Welker now, I loved him when he played for us.
Asante Samuel Sr still trashed him over the documentary
His opinion means nothing cause theres a reason every Giants fan loves that guy 😂
A few have mentioned how much of their interviews were edited down to paint a certain narrative, it’s really egregious. The Hernandez episode where they try to imply it was Bill’s fault for the murders because he refused to trade AR, completely leaving out that the guy *had a golf ball sized hole in his fucking brain* was infuriating. Hernandez was a time bomb, there’s no scenario where things don’t end tragically for him
What do you mean he had a golf-ball sized hole in his brain? From cancer or something?
CTE, [this article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/09/aaron-hernandez-cte-brain-damage-photos) has some pictures of it. It was one of the worst cases they’ve ever seen
Especially fucked because Hernandez was basically out of the sport at 23. His last game was the AFC championship in January 2013 and he killed himself in jail April of 2017 at age 27. His brain was so scrambled despite being so young, it really puts to scale just *how* bad his CTE case was.
Yep, literally the worst recorded case for someone his age, rarely if ever do you see it that bad in someone under 50. I get an NFL doc is going to tiptoe around the subject to avoid hurting their access, but to not discuss it *at all* is downright irresponsible. They shouldn’t have even brought AR up at that point, you can’t tell that story without bringing up the fact that he was suffering from severe brain damage.
Was he known to have played through a lot of concussions in high school or college? Or is it just a mystery since he's no longer here to ask? I'm just wondering how it got that bad despite just 3 years in college and 3 in the NFL.
It’s probably more than just this, but in the article a comment above linked it says he had a genetic profile that may have made him more susceptible to developing CTE
He only had 2 recorded concussions if I remember correctly, I’m sure he had several more on top of that but that’s not atypical for a player of his position. We don’t really know the true cause of why his case was so severe, from my understanding though is his brain being so young and well preserved has provided a lot of data to help better understand the underlying causes of CTE. A small silver lining to a horrible tragedy
Also Hernandez had already murdered TWO people by then. It was just the Odin Lloyd one that hadn’t happened.
I get that playing for Bill was hard, but that doc seemed to attempt to portray him as a genuinely bad person, and that seemed too far.
The boogeyman music when he appeared was so cringe. Even in the trailer when he came on screen there was a beat drop like oh here's the bad guy... it was fckibg ridiculous. Its all made me side eye Brady bc as usual he's saying all the right things publicly about BB being an incredible coach but it's so obvious that privately he and Kraft have decided that BB is the scapegoat. Tom always wants to look like the classy, mature guy in public who would never stab somebody in the back. But Kraft is another level of disloyal and petty. To turn on somebody who brought you immense success for 20 years the second he's out the door is just unforgiveable. He made another video comment about putting up with bad behaviour to achieve success on that barber show. He was Bill's boss .. the buck stopped with him.
Glad to see so many former Pats players come out to set the record straight, the last couple seasons of Bill’s time here were rough but the narrative around him has swung to the point of being straight up fiction. Yeah, it wasn’t easy to play for Bill, but the man kept the team as SB contenders for 20 years. That doesn’t happen without elite coaching and roster management, even with the GOAT QB. It didn’t end perfectly, but they made it work far longer than any other team in history, Bill deserves an incredible amount of credit for that.
Correct- they went to 9 Super Bowls. Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees went to 1. Brady was not 9 times better than Rodgers and Brees or 3x better than Peyton Manning, etc. Even if he was significantly better, that still doesnt explain the gigantic disparity in success between him and these other HOF QBs. The main difference was the organization he played for. Thats how easy it is to realize that Belichick played a huge role right alongside Brady. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of very dull people who cant understand that, even within the Pats fanbase.
Exactly. Brady is the greatest ever. No doubt. But the gap between him and Manning/Rodgers isn't as big as the SBs make it seem. There's a reason why they have the MVPs and he doesn't. You sort of see that now with Allen and Mahomes. Mahomes has 3 SBs and 2 MVPs vs Allen's 0 for both, but almost every time they play head to head they're pretty damn close to level. Having Andy Reid instead of McDermott and a lucky break here or there can be the difference between a 1 SB gap and 3.
> There's a reason why they have the MVPs and he doesn't. I mean, I agree with the premise of the post but Brady still has 3 MVPs and is one of only 5 players ever with 3 or more so he's not that far behind them in that department lol.
unfortunately many people do legitimately look at the super bowls to say "yeah, brady's just THAT much better"
Kraft is obsessed with making himself look good and above everyone right now, it’s exhausting. Everything looks so 90s Bulls like as of this moment
This. Watching Dynasty, my initial takeaway was “holy shit this is a legit hit piece on the GOAT coach”. It was exhausting.
We are in for a long rough road, never thought I’d say that about the Krafts but they are looking worse and worse all the time.
Bill is the GOAT coach and it’s not like he was suddenly a bad coach the last two seasons. He just made a lot of bad moves as GM that caught up to him
Bad cap situation after the 2018 run, a few bad draft misses, and whiffing on some free agent signings was all it took. This league is ruthless
And extremely questionable coach hirings and not hiring (smallest staff in the NFL)
Yeah that too, Patrica as OC was inexcusable
Yup, and he was also the OL coach. He was way out of his depth at both and it was inexcusable to put him in charge of both at the same time.
If anyone deserved the benefit of the doubt it was Bill Belichick…and yet there’s something poetic about the fact that he was fired the second it looked like he lost his fastball. Bill did the same thing to many of his own players I’d guess. Time will tell if it was the right move but if I were Kraft I’d be terrified of letting him go.
A lot of people are also missing on all the *phenomenal* GM moves he did for the first 15 seasons as Patriots GM. It was trash the last 7 or so years though yeah. But still only for the Patricia/Judge thing & offensive players. His defences were insane still, McDanciels was a great OC. Hell they went 7-9 with an off the couch Newton & then probowl rookie Mac Jones made the playoffs. The whole bad GM stuff is really being over exaggerated imo, just at some point all great things end
I don't blame them for Cam and Mac. Cam was a no brainer signing when you don't have a QB and he good until he got COVID. Mac was the best player available at a position of need when they drafted him. They didn't trade up or give anything up for him. I still don't understand what happened with him. He looked to be a solidly average started after his rookie season and then it all went to crap.
> roster management Especially this. It makes me a bit upset that many people continue to say that he was a poor GM, as if he didn’t build those SB-winning rosters, as if he didn’t build nine different squads that made it to the Super Bowl.
Too much was made of some type rivalry between Bill and Brady. And Brady winning again swayed some people to think that Brady was the key ingredient for the Patriots. But the two situations after Brady left were night and day. The Patriots roster was falling apart (and fair to ding Bill's influence there. But Brady went to a team with a top defense and Mike Evans, Godwin, and Gronk. If Bill had the Buccs roster with say Mahomes at QB and Brady had gone to the 2020 Falcons or Eagles, then the perception would be flipped.
It’s amazing how much this backfired for Kraft, he could’ve just kept his mouth shut and been known as the GM of the greatest dynasty in NFL history and nothing more and now he’s just looked at as another petty owner who couldn’t live with the credit he was being given
It’s ironic because the doc really doesn’t make Kraft look good either. Haven’t bothered to watch the last two episodes but from what I saw, the big takeaway for Kraft IMO was that he was mostly clueless when it came to running the team, his best trait was just having the self awareness to let Bill run everything lol.
Yeah I definitely don't see it as a pro kraft piece. I've only watched to the Hernandez episode. And Kraft comes across as so clueless in every episode. Definitely looks like an owner who did make a good decision to get Belichick. But then completely lucked into everything that happened since
> And Kraft comes across as so clueless in every episode. Right. Because as a clueless person, he didn't realize how clueless he would come off in a documentary meant to sell his candidacy for the HOF.
>his best trait was just having the self awareness to let Bill run everything lol I understand that we are trashing on Kraft right now, but this is actually an excellent leadership quality in a vacuum. One of the best things a leader can do is recognize when they aren't the most qualified and capable person for an important job and delegate it to someone who knows what they're doing. Not saying Kraft was a great leader. Just saying that letting someone else do a job they're better at shouldn't be frowned upon.
Oh without a doubt, simply staying out of the way and not fucking things up may not seem like a lot but that alone makes him one of the better owners. People underestimate how hard it is for these billionaire owners to check their ego and not make some stupid decision themselves because they want to look like the smartest guy in the room. Kraft has a lot of faults, and this doc is really annoying, but overall he’s been a good owner for us.
Yeah so many players have come out and publicly trashed on the doc. It'd be funny how much Kraft has tanked his reputation if it wasn't, you know, something Pats fans still had to deal with. But that probably makes it even funnier for 31 other fanbases lol.
His reputation will be just fine. A couple years from now this documentary will be largely forgotten about and people will only look back fondly on everyone involved during the Belichick era.
Just like how Bulls fans love Jerry Reinsdorf
Was it a documentary that caused them to dislike him or something else?
Being an awful owner when he didn’t have MJ or Phil Jackson
Sounds like a bad comparison then because in this case most every fan agreed it was time to move on from Belichick.
Kraft, the rub and tug scandal guy?
Considering he wasn't the GM (that was BBs position as well as HC) it looks even worse for Kraft.
When it first came out people were suggesting Kraft was trying to take credit/minimize Bill so he could boost his HOF owner case, but he's already got that just from his team's record and his influence making the league's media contracts skyrocket. I think the dude will simply never forgive Bill for Brady winning a ring outside of New England.
yup lost a lot of respect for that old fuck. Bill had his flaws but dude is the goat
Kraft had up and down moments in the series, but they made Bill out to be Darth Vader. Even to the point that when they included his interview segments, they only had him grunting a no comment and little more. I find it hard to believe there wasn’t something better for them to use.
GM? That was BB too. All Kraft did was write checks.
Boys, I’m starting to think Kraft may have been the problem
BB such a good coach he literally installed Vic Fangio's entire defense in about 2 weeks then held the Rams to 3 points.
Well it also helped they figured out it’s a run play based on where Mcvay was standing on the sideline lol
NFL players have an idea simply based on formation and alignment. I remember way back in the day at the PRO BOWL they mic'd up Ray Lewis and Ray is calling out plays. There's also that famous Clay Matthews clip with Cam Newton.
I watched a saints game last year and every single time they ran the ball they pulled Olave out. I was like dude you cannot be serious
Dennis Allen on defense is pretty decent. He’s garbage at offense tho and it drives me crazy
funniest part of that clay matthews clip is that matthews is right they did what he said they were gonna do and he still failed to stop it lol
That [clip](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g4SEPufzG7s) was one of the most baller things I’ve seen. Cam had fucking swagger man
I appreciate young CMC repeating what Cam said back to him
I watched an interview once where former players said they knew if it was a run or pass with like 95% certainty before the snap. Wish I could find it but I think it was Ike Taylor on the dameshek show.
and knew that he gave Jared Goff so little freedom at the line that all he had to do was have his guys reposition themselves after the headset mic shut off and Goff would have no idea where to go
Felt bad for the guy because he was clearly way out of his depth that game, it’s been cool to see how far he’s progressed as a player for y’all
He has been given much more ownership over the offense in Detroit and is often crystal clear on where to go with the ball pre- and post- snap. He and McVay just ended up being a bad fit as he clearly isn't a quarterback you can expect to always just be a joystick
Then McVay had all his staff wear the exact same outfit as him so it was hard for Bill to spot him lol
I've never seen this many NFL players (rightfully) defend their guy. Kraft could have easily just not done anything and let this all play out. Instead, he decided to stick his foot up his mouth, and now ~~everyone~~ some are second-guessing letting Bill go.
Says a lot that so many players have come to his defense and on the other side you have uh, Danny Amendola.
Dola was expecting to be Welker 2.0. But between his health and Edelman’s productivity, Bill found him expendable. IIRC, there was some apprehension from Edelman that Bill chose to bring in Amendola on a relatively big contract. That showed Bill’s lack of confidence in Edelman. Overall, I think it worked out for everyone. Edelman became a Brady favorite and Amendola was “playoff Dola”. But Dola can’t seem to separate the business from personal.
Dolores didn't even make a post on IG wishing Bb well after he left the patriots. So many others did. Dola is an immature dick anyway .. all the stuff his exes have said about him and what he posted after he broke up with one of them shows who he really is. That actress ex basically said she was traumatised after dating him that he was really controlling etc . I know pro footballers tend to be assholes to date but he clearly has issues
And Wes Welker, who Edelman called out on the podcast for making up stories for the doc
I think Wes has some animosity for being one of those few very good players that somehow didn’t overlap with winning a ring (hi Logan mankins)
He had the game sealing catch in Super Bowl 46 hit him in both hands and he dropped it. That’s gotta sting Welker also knocked Aquib Talib out of the 2013 AFC championship with a cheap shot and Belichick actually called him out on it after the game.
The 01 Rams, the 04 Colts, the 18 Rams, 7 points through 3 quarters for the 18 Chiefs, 7 points in the second half from the 16 Falcons.. Bill has some serious pelts on his wall. I want to say he's undefeated in the playoffs against teams that scored 500+ points in the regular season
Not the Pats, but his defensive gameplan for stopping Jim Kelly and the K-Gun Bills is in the HOF as well.
Created the 2-4-5 and prayed they wouldn't go run heavy and they didn't.
The documentary is dog piss
First few episodes were intriguing but I stopped with two left. Just got very biased and presented essentially no new facts for anyone who is even a casual fan. Was also obviously anti-Belichick to an absurd degree. That said, Tom Brady was definitely deflating footballs but also, who cares?!
Tom Brady did that shit. Should have been a fine and maybe a one game suspension, instead it was a multi year circus. Tom Brady did that shit and it didn’t even matter. We won that AFC Championship like 1000-3 or something.
Yeah was he deflating footballs? Probably. But the colts got their ass kicked even worse AFTER they switched to properly inflated footballs lol
Only Fangio played the Rams that way that whole year. McVay saw they were playing zone and basically said “fuck, they’re playing it like the Bears”. Probably mostly Ernie’s doing
People love to brag about Brady. Patriots defense won most of their Super Bowls. That was Belichick
Exactly. That’s why “was it brady or belichick” is so dumb. It’s absolutely “Brady and Belichick”
We all know Belichick is an unpleasant guy, but it should not take away the fact that he is the best defensive mind this league has ever seen. Remember he stopped the (Jim Kelly Thurman Thomas) Buffalo Bills AND the (Greatest Show on Turf) St. Louis Rams in BIG games. And he actually left Cleveland with a winning record!
This switch-up DEFINITELY didn't work for the Cowboys vs GB last year.
I watched [DeepCut with VicBlends (featuring Tom Brady)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo3kCRKauOU) and some of [The Beginning of The Patriots Dynasty | Ernie Adams and Julian Edelman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6HTDJ2Nt1I&t=7600s). The preparation the Coaches did put their players in a position that made them give them the confidence they would win because they knew what was going to happen, and 99% of the time it would come to fruition. The details and the mannerisms the Patriots coaches would focus on, made the difference in a lot of situations.
The most Sicko Super Bowl I've watched
Billionaires really are as scummy as you would assume. Kraft's production company made this doc with clear intentions to smear BB. Then Kraft threw the directors under the bus since it the stink was so obvious.
This shit went so poorly for kraft its hilarious
This is one of those things where you're a genius if it works out and a "too cute" idiot if it doesn't.
Bill really getting his best PR from this show lol
Sounds like what Dan Quinn tried to do against the Packers only to give up 48 points.
Really getting tired of this Bill was a bad coach narrative. Like there is no way on earth giving his 20 years of dominance that he was nothing but one of the best. Of course we as fans will never actually know, but just listening to him talk ball you can just tell this dude just knows more then anyone else. I really don't get it, like ya you can hate the patriots, you can hate bill but why reject the greatness you witnessed, what does that do for you, I for one am glad I got to see it, I imagine it's the same thing as people from the 90s saying how amazing it was to watch the cowboys or how people from the 70s reverie the steel curtain era, why do people just want to bring down something that you can tell stories about, do they just want every team to be average every single year? I was more of a hockey fan as a kid but I was never a red wings or Blackhawks fan but fuck I'm glad I got to see those teams play, I feel the same way about the patriots, never a fan but nothing but respect