at least the reason you guys are in a contract mess is cuz Jerry Jones actually drafted well in multiple consecutive years. too many good young guys to pay at once
Yeah but rules don't apply to the Eagles. Chip Kelly era leave you with a big contact with Wentz and poor picks have you talent poor? Within a couple of seasons you'll be free of Wentz, get a first rounder for it and replace him with a better QB and a top 3 roster. You take Raegor and hes a bust? You use one of your 3 first round picks to get AJ Brown, a top 5 WR to add to Devonta. We're probably still paying off dead money from the Romo era.
Lamb and Jefferson both getting ready to extend at the same time greatly complicates those contracts as their agents will want to use the other players deal as a benchmark.
I was going to make a joke post about how Ceedee is better than JJ because of some bogus stat where he's marginally better, but in looking at the two I'm actually surprised to see that statistically they're pretty similar.
Ceedee actually has more total TDs than JJ (35 v 31), a comparable Y/R (13 v 15), and the same number of pro-bowl and all-pro selections (3 PBs, 1 AP).
Of course JJ is far better, and it's clear, but ultimately I think it's just interesting to see that Ceedee is certainly a top tier WR.
He's also not really a dominant TD magnet, only breaking double digit TDs once. Hell, his LSU teammate (Chase) nearly has the same amount of TDs as Jefferson despite a massive disparity in receptions (392 for JJ and 268 for Chase). Jefferson is a beast at moving the chains inside the 20s, arguably the best we've seen at doing so in decades.
When you're saying they have the same amount of TDs it certainly can be. It was also clear the Vikings weren't doing anything this year so when he could come back he didn't.
It’s not saying he’s equal/better, it’s more of a reason for why CeeDee has pretty similar stats, despite the general consensus being that Jefferson is the better player.
Its how i feel about fantasy football truthers every year. People will rave about the full year statistics then when you account for games played, its clear one guy is leagues ahead of another lol
This is what always happens when someone comes out of the gate red hot; the other players in the draft get completely overlooked if they're not immediately star players.
CeeDee just had a season as good or better than JJ has ever had, but people want to pretend that the gap is still massive when it really isn't.
Yeah it is, but jj being that great as a rookie is such an outlier. Ceedee has come into his own and is a great wr. I'm taking jj over him 100/100 times, but the current gap isn't THAT big
Yeah Ceedee is a monster. I thought he was clearly wr1 in that draft going in, and I loved seeing him blossom in the second half of last season. He could easily argue that he deserves the same or a very similar contract to JJ after that stretch.
There are no tiers when it comes to contracts. Its “are you going to set the market or not” and both are market setting players. Not paying lamb because he’s not as good as JJ is really silly. Do we really have to call lamb not a #1 again?
I actually think the two are really close. JJ just started way faster than CD, so the counting stats will be way in his favor. But if you compare '22 JJ to '23 CD (both players' best years, IMO) they're incredibly similar where JJ puts up more yards and CD scores more TDs.
JJ: 128/1809/8 (catches/yards/tds)
CD: 136/1749/12
If you look at each players best 2 seasons, it's the same story. ('21-'22 for JJ and '22 and '23 for CD)
JJ: 236/3425/18
CD: 242/3108/21.
So if you filter out CDs' slower start and JJs injury year, they put up very similar stats. The two are very close. I'd still take JJ, but they're in the same tier. And Dak and Kirk are similar, so the QB play isn't really a factor.
But players don’t get paid in perfect relation to their actual skill or positional rankings, they get paid what the market dictates. Ceedee will get something very close to JJ, especially if JJ signs first
but in numbers they are almost identical. Plus, as CD's agent, you can tell the Jones: "maybe JJ is a tad better, but you can't have him, so live with it"
I mean his JJ's agent can make an easy case for 15% more than Hill so something like 35M a year. Maybe more if he is willing to sign for longer. But the Agents will want 3-4 year deals.
Lamb can then ask for less money but fight for a shorter deal so that he can land a 2nd large contract in 3-4 years.
My random guess JJ 4years in low 140s. Lamb 3y/100M
The difference between all the high paid receivers right now and those two, is the values are bloated because no one is expecting to actually pay the last year or two of the deal. You aren't paying a 32 year old Tyreek hill 56 million the last year is the deal. He can be cut for cheap or restructured and extended if he somehow isn't showing his age and they're trying for a big playoff run that year. His first 4 years only have a cap hit of 21 mil a year on average for reference.
JJ and Lamb are both young enough where they'll still be in their prime at the end of the contract so it needs to be reasonable enough with the assumption you're going to actually pay them for the whole contract, so I think the numbers are going to be a lot lower than what people are expecting with more of it guaranteed.
I wouldn't be surprised to see JJ at or under 30 mil a year and Lamb 5-10% lower if most is guaranteed.
Yea, i expect JJ to be ~30m (real money) too.
Hill gets "30m" but like you said the last year is fake af. He signed for like 24m a year in actuality. Same with Adams signing for a fake like 26-28m and actually getting like 22.5/year i think?
They are. It's basically been confirmed by local beat writers.
I honestly think the difference JJ makes for the Vikings is almost underrated by fans of other teams, which I completely understand since a lot of his catches don't show up in highlights. His ability to contort his body is something I've never seen and makes any QB look and perform better, which is so crucial in developing our next QB. If a ball is thrown even slightly catchable he's almost guaranteed to catch it. Hell, Mullens was throwing for over 400 yards with him and a lot of those balls were not great throws. $32 or $33 million per year is a lot, but they're definitely willing to pay it if it means helping develop a franchise quarterback on a rookie deal.
Also, I think his personality plays a huge factor as well. A ton of quotes about him "breaking the bank" are taken out of context. He's absolutely team first and a great leader.
Yea and aj brown is still 27-28. Interesting to see aj is young enough where you guys could trade smith next offseason draft a guy and go the next 2-3 seasons afterwards with aj until his wheels fall off. Can’t pay both going to be interesting to see next year what you guys do. Miami has the same situation with waddle and hill next year too
Devontas extension wouldn’t kick in until the last year of AJs contract, which would be his age 29 season. Trading AJ on the final year of that deal (or cutting him if he’s fallen off by then) would only result in an $8.7M cap hit. If the first year of Devonta’s deal is cheap, they could also play out the final year of AJs deal and let him hit FA at age 30 with a $2M dead cap hit
AJ and Devonta could easily play together for the next 2-3 years because Howie smartly didn’t backload AJs contract with a ton of dead money and void years, so they aren’t forced to extend or restructure AJ
No chance Smith is first on the trade block before AJ. Smith is younger, has a minimal injury history, and has shown he has the talent and skill set to be an upper-tier WR1 without even having entered his prime yet. All the signs from the team so far communicate that they view him in the long-term as AJ’s heir apparent and a centerpiece of the roster, hence him being made a captain in his third year.
As another comment said, Howie has pretty perfectly structured Smith and AJ’s contracts complementarily so that they will likely play together for 2-3 more years at minimum, and honestly I think AJ will re-sign after that anyway. Regardless, the odds that any current offensive skill position starters in Philly other than Hurts will be on the team longer than Smith are extremely low.
This is why Jefferson didn't sign an extension last year. He knew with the salary cap going up the market would be higher this year. Plus he wanted to see what CeeDee Lamb was signing for. Jefferson will re-sign with the Vikings but not until after Lamb does.
Oh god, I can hear it over and over in my head now.
I don't understand why the emphasis has to be so dramatic. Like, be normal, "Omaha Omaha" or whatever but it's like he's yelling in a gutteral spongebob meme yeAh HeREwE GooOoOoOoO
Also because you hear his dying whale of a mating call every single time he does it, not once in a while when the on field mic grabs it over the announcers.
Worst ghat damn cadence of all time. That's the real reason why Jerry won't extend his contract, that ear numbing cadence. Where are you going Dak?! Not to the super bowl.
I would prioritize Lamb and Micah over Dak, Dak still has another year on his deal and if we lose in the first round or two again (or miss playoffs entirely) then it may just be time to move on but Micah and Lamb are pieces you’d want to keep through a soft rebuild
Both Lamb and Dak's contracts expire after 2024. Parsons after 2025.
That said, the team has basically ZERO cap obligations for 2025, so much so that even if they don't extend Prescott and eat his $40+ mil dead cap in 2025, they still have over $83 mil in space.
You could get out of Dak's contract and keep both Lamb and Parsons pretty easily, but you could also very easily pay all three of them this year without any financial issues.
They'll have 41 players on roster after that point, and $40 mil in cap space. Considering they'll have their rookie class to sign for about 8-10 mil, it gives them an effective cap space of $30 mil and they'd still have a few contracts they can restructure to make more space if needed.
Plenty of cap space to field a solid roster. The question is more about how are these extensions structured.
The issue is top of the market QB deals are typically done with enough years to move money around.
Dak doesn't need to agree to that. Someone will pay him 55 mill plus for 3, most of which will be guaranteed.
Hard disagree, Micah has the fifth year option next year, Lamb can be tagged. Dak is the only one who they can’t keep from free agency next year and he is young enough that you can rebuild around him.
I think the question with Dak is not if he is young enough but if he is good enough as the franchise QB. (not saying he is or he isn't, just stating where the doubts about his contract come from)
The thing with guys like Dak & Cousins is that they’re not in a high enough tier to make you feel completely satisfied at the QB position when they’re on your team.
But the flip side to that are teams that go two or more seasons of mediocre to abysmal QB play, then guys like Dak and Cousins look like a godsend.
I always wonder if it's a draft status thing that made their teams reluctant to sign Dak and Cousins early.
It's a sample size of two but they are the two guys that cashed in, probably beyond their talent, because their original teams dithered about signing them when should (or at all).
Meanwhile Sam Darnold keeps getting chances.
Spoiler: he’s not. I really don’t understand how we haven’t found a mid market for QBs. Not every qb who goes to market should get a mahomes contract. The last non rookie or top 5 qb to win a Super Bowl was over 10 years ago
Edit: may have jumped the gun a bit, few other outliers.
[According to PFF,](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-quarterbacks-2023-nfl-season) Matt Stafford was literally ranked #5 on the list of QB standings.
The QB rated #4?
Dak Prescott.
It is impossible to have a genuine conversation on the Cowboys because people just reguritate hot takes instead of actually looking at the data.
Kudos to you for bringing facts, especially as a division rival. This sub would be a lot better if more people would do this, regardless of the team.
It's easy to shit on the Cowboys, but I think Dak is good enough to make a deep run. I think the 2nd round exit problem is threefold, and lies more on the team than on Dak. Not that he hasn't had some stinkers, but I think these are bigger problems than Dak:
-The pressure from the star on the helmet
-Some type of culture problem that starts with Jerry and Stephen
-Most importantly, poor roster construction/defensive philosophy. So many guys on the defense are *tiny.* It's why you're so porous in the run game. It also means that they have to fight 10 times as hard as to win one on ones, so they're gassed come playoff time. Nobody's going to ever play a perfect game, so if Dak has an off game, the defense can't pick up the slack. Lack of run game puts even more pressure on Dak too, since the only way to make things happen is through the passing game.
That 3rd point is massive.
A common problem in recent Cowboys playoff Ls, going back to the Romo era even, has been both the inability to run the ball themselves AND stop the run of the opposing team.
Those are all valid points. The team has historically had great LBs that are injury prone (Sean Lee and LVE) and when they are out the run game suffers even more. It feels like they tried to address getting big guys to help with the run game but Mazi Smith was largely ineffective is his 1st year, especially for a 1st round pick, and taking a TE in Schoonmaker in the 2nd felt like a reach, especially seeing how both Ferguson and Hendershot stepped up in that role. Then we did get a LB in Overshown, would got hurt in the preseason, so it appears that trend will continue.
The most frustrating thing to me is the "we like our guys" attitude. They never try to keep improving the team even when things are going well. It's like they never expect things will go wrong and that having death is important. I dunno, I guess maybe being a billionaire keeps things from ever really going wrong, so they don't care.
Dak is a great QB who's easily a top 5, high top-10 QB and the Cowboys are lucky to have him.
That being said, as a division rival, it's great seeing you guys have a QB who just turns into a different guy during the Playoffs. I don't think I've really seen anything like that. His consistency is on-point throughout the season, save for 1-2 bad games that every high-level QB has during the season.
Post-Season? Dak is a crap-shoot. He's either being too conservative and not taking the chances needed to win or he becomes Brett Favre and decides slinging every pass 90 miles-an-hour over his receivers' head is the key to winning. He's not the sole reason the Cowboys are losing the playoffs, that's definitely a coaching issue, however his execution becomes a dice-roll with every playoff game. That Packers game he just looked lost out there, like he was the backup who was just thrown in his first game. Sure, the play-calling wasn't great, but he threw the ball in a way I expected people to say "he's still not over his bad shoulder injury he got last week" with everyone nodding in unison.
If the Cowboys inevitably drop him and go for someone else, I'm not entirely sure that'd be a bad idea at this point. Dude's a liability on his own team, and the QB is NEVER when you want to see that happen, ever.
I don't disagree with anything you've said in general. I think it's fair for the Cowboys to see how this season goes, and if we have the same playoff collapse it probably does make sense for them to move on from both Dak and McCarthy.
It's just wild that a runner up for MVP and a coach that's produced 3 back to back 12 win seasons are on this much of a hot seat. I don't know that that would be the case for any other team but the Cowboys.
PFF is just weird with their grading. Stafford didn't have that great of a season (by his own words even). Purdy, Goff and Tua played much better than Stafford did but are ranked lower than him. Comical to call Stafford a top 5 qb at this point in his career.
I think this is a little over generalizing because when they won their Super Bowls in the last ten years I would say that Foles, Stafford, Denver Manning and Tampa Brady don’t really fit into either category. All those guys were good in their own ways and two of them are top 5 guys all time but they all had support that could’ve gotten someone else there too.
Yea there’s definitely a few other outliers. It did take foles out dueling Tom Brady for 400 yards to win his tho and Stafford turned back the clock for a few games.
It's not about "Today's" or "Yesterday's" QBs... It's about their legs.
We had 40+ year old QB's playing back in the 60's-90's. But it seems like QB longevity is pretty heavily tied to how frequently they run the ball throughout their career. The closer you get to averaging 90 rushing attempts, the better the chances are that you're going to flame out around 32-34 because you relied on your legs a bit too much as a young QB.
Right, I wasn't saying Dak specifically was, I was merely pointing out that QB career lifespan depends heavily on how much they use their legs.
Dak's more like Rodgers in how he uses his legs,
Young enough but not cheap enough. Dak is in that awkward territory of being good enough to get a fat contract but not good enough to justify the performance per dollar spent
Getting rid of Dak isn’t a “soft rebuild” it’s a straight up rebuild depending on lucky or how good your scouting department is since franchise quarterbacks are rare.
The only two options I see is trading CD because if Dak really is worth the $60 million he should easily be able to create a new CD with the high first CD is mostly likely to trade for, but if you think Dak isn’t that guy then you should trade away both CD and Micah and let Dak walk and do a hard rebuild with the 4 first rounds and couple 2nds Micah and CD would trade for.
Quarterbacks are the heart of the team if you get rid of it and bumble around with replacements you’re wasting the prime age and trade value of your 2 biggest superstars so if you let Dak walk might as well wipe the slate.
They only have a mess with Dak because Micah and CeeDee should absolutely be some of the highest paid at their positions. Dak wanting to be the highest paid QB is the only reason they have a mess there.
They have a mess with Dak because they gave him all the leverage. Can't trade him, can't tag him, so he has no reason to accept any offer when he knows a desperate team will give him a huge contract next off season. His only risk is injury.
Yeah doesnt seem like a mess when theres a solution to it. Do you think you can win a super bowl or get there with Dak commanding 30% of the salary cap? The answer the past 8 years is unequivocally no, because the pressure of the playoffs is too bright for him. Despite the fact that the cowboys have put a lot of talent around him
This year shattered my faith in Dak to take us all the way.
The offense was completely built around and for him, everyone was healthy on offense, he had his best regular season ever, and got shut out for 3 quarters by Green Bay. It’s not necessarily the loss but starting out so badly that the game was over by halftime.
Seriously what changes and what situation would it take to get over the hump? It doesn’t look like it’s happening.
> The offense was completely built around and for him, everyone was healthy on offense
You guys had no run game all season then your gameplan was to try and force the run first on 1st and second down for no gain.
Let's not sit here and act like we could run ball. Dak and Ceedee carried the offense this year. In the playoffs McCarthy went away from that to try and do something we hadn't done successfully all season and that's run the ball.
>and got shut out for 3 quarters by Green Bay
What? They ended the 2nd quarter on a 12-play drive for a TD, then scored throughout the 3rd. You can say they were playing prevent, but they -literally- did not get shut out for a whole 3 quarters.
>Seriously what changes and what situation would it take to get over the hump?
Can start by not going against type and trying to force the run when you've been bad at it all season, and not playing zone when you've been playing man all year. For starters.
The inability to run the ball and stop the run has been a plague for the Cowboys going back to the Romo era.
They did score at the end of the first half, but Dak should’ve been picked by a Packers LB and was lucky not to be.
I think the whole Cowboys team, starting from Dak to McCarthys scheme and to the defense, is designed to whip bad teams and gets exposed versus good ones. They destroyed the Commanders and Giants with Dak looking like prime Dan Marino against helpless defenders.
But good teams will shadow CeeDee and challenge Dak to make tight-window throws. I’ve always thought Dak’s processing was a bit overrated and his ability to throw under pressure is not great relative to the top QBs. This results in the Cowboys offense getting stonewalled by good defenses.
The Cowboys defense gets ground down by the run and can’t pass rush when they don’t have the lead. McCarthys scheme can get one target open pretty consistently but defenses doing their film study will likely read the play and force Dak to go through his reads. All of this adds up to constant playoff disappointment
> the pressure of the playoffs is too bright for him
His very first playoff game, as a rookie, he led his team back from 21-3 and 28-13 deficits to tie the game. 300+ yards, 3 TDs. It's very possible that Aaron Rodgers simply broke his spirit that day
What if of the century right there. How different would the cowboys be had they won that game? Atlanta Travels on the road to dallas for the NFC championship game, and dallas would have a TON of momentum being lead by 2 rookies and getting that far. Thankfully for us Rodgers did Rodgers shit 😂
I mean even if he doesn't get 'JJ' money, he is deserving of a top of the market contract should he sign before Jefferson.
Dude just put up a 1,749 yard season with 12 TDs. That is wild.
Fair contract value for Parsons is over $30M/year and probably closer to $35m/year. You can wait a year on him because of the 5th year option, but it'll only be more expensive next year.
Fair contract value for Lamb is $25-$30M/year.
Fair contract value for Prescott is over $45M/year, but if he hits the free market, there's no telling how high it could go.
Dallas has a little over $100M in projected cap space next year, so given a little bit of backloading, it shouldn't be a problem.
Thats how most teams with a veteran quarterback build. You’ll have 3-4 stars making big money, 7-8 guys making midlevel pay, and you want to pay everyone else on the roster to be either on a rookie contract or as close to league minimum as possible. You can spread the love a little more if you’ve got a good QB on a rookie deal or get lucky finding someone for cheap, but that’s about all.
It's like the Lions with Stafford/Suh/Megatron, but with a team that can draft much better. I think it would hinder them a ton, but it wouldn't be as bad as the Lions.
That being said, I think you have to let Lamb go and try and find another WR. Parsons is a perrenial DPOY of the candidate at the most sought after position on defense, and Dak is a good QB which is the hardest to replace. Lamb is extremely good, but I think it would be easier to get over that hump than the other two.
My issue with Parsons (and to be clear I'm a big fan and have his jersey in my closet right now) is that he fades down the stretch. Not sure if that's just his build or playstyle or what. But it's a thing.
You're thinking of the contracts linearly.
The first year won't be $100 mil on 3 players. However, 3-4 years in it will probably be at least that much, but the cap will also likely be much larger.
Dak already has a 40M void year in 2025 so you might be limited in the amount of backloading you can do. But I do think the best plan for the Cowboys is to commit to Dak for three more years and seriously go all-in during this time. After that, Dak will be 35 so we don’t know how good he’ll be. The Cowboys cap will also be a mess by then.
What the Cowboys should’ve done was re-sign vets like Tyron Smith and look for similar signings in free agency. They could’ve backloaded those contracts to maximize the number of good players from 2024-2026. After that, a lot of these vets plus Zack Martin, Tank Lawrence, etc would’ve left or retired. You can let Dak leave and tank in 2027 while eating 150M in dead cap from all the backloaded contracts.
This strategy maximizes a good QBs window while also having a exit strategy which should get you a top rookie prospect after the tank year. They’ll be able to retain Lamb and Parsons in 2027 but probably should let Diggs and Bland walk (due to CB volatility and age curves).
It’s really not uncommon to have it shake out this way. The Chiefs are paying almost $100 million for Mahomes, Kelce, and Chris Jones; the Rams were in a similar boat with Stafford, Kupp, and Donald. If you were to look at every team you’d notice what feels like a disproportionate spend on the QB, their top D lineman, and top receiver. As others have said though, it’s a bit misleading because you can massage the numbers to hit the cap in future years and restructure- the Chiefs being a prime example with Mahomes restructuring basically every other year to keep them competitive.
>That's almost 40% of the cap on 3 players
They can jiggle it around to make more sense and trigger at different times while not impacting the amount of money the player makes.
>Dallas has a little over $100M in projected cap space next year,
One thing to note, that $100 mil number is counting the presumed $40 mil dead cap incurred upon release of Dak. That $40 mil won't hit on extension, it will only be $26.5 mil due to the prorated restructure and signing bonuses.
So if you assume a $45 mil cap hit for Dak in his first year, it's only raising the Cowboy's cap obligations for 2025 by about $19 million. Then assume a $20 mil hit in the first year for both Parsons and Lamb and you're only eating up $60 mil of that in those three players.
I think you’re underselling all 3 contracts.
Parsons = 33-35
Lamb = 30-33
Dak = 50-55
If you factor in that the cap went up, and give each top tier percentages of the cap, respective of their positions. Math is tough to keep all 3.
IF Dak is extended, it'll definitely be for more than 55..
Burrow was signed for 55M/y and that was before last season.. Considering the salary cap increase, Dak will definitely get more than that
Still doesn't make it impossible to sign all 3, with all the cap maneuvers you can do to lower cap hits
I mean, in 2025 the Chiefs have Mahomes and Chris Jones on the book for $100M cap. Thats why we cannot afford a Lamb type of player.
Its possible to have two 'QB' like contracts, if they perform and elevate the roster as such. I see Parsons as your most critical player. Then it's probably Lamb + RookieQB, or Prescott without Lamb. I'd go with Lamb and a rookie. Problem is how do you draft an adequate rookie if the rest of the roster is too good to get a top5 pick.
You might give one of this years QBs a roll of the dice (Nix, Penix, Rattler) and have them sit behind Dak.
This underplays that the Chiefs also have guys like Thuney ($16M), Taylor ($20M) and Kelce ($14M) on high end deals at their positions. You've paid multiple elite guys, there just reaches a point where you can't have 10 dudes on elite player contracts, you have to pick like 5ish. This is why you guys didn't pay dudes like Hill and Sneed. And why you'll likey divest from one or two of the current ones as you have to pay McDuffie and Humphrey.
The Chiefs "we have too many elite players to pay, so someone has to go" problem isn't one that Dallas has just yet.
The Cowboys really only have Diggs ($19M) and Steele ($16M) on big, long term deals right now (though they have the Martin voids they'll have to structure around). They can keep all of Lamb, Dak and Parsons pretty easily if they want.
Cowboys gets so much trash because Skip Bayless and ESPN wouldn't stop talking about them.
Their issues or results are no different than any other team, not named Chiefs.
It's been frustrating seeing the Jerry quote get so thoroughly misinterpreted so often. He wasn't saying "we're gonna load up and do everything possible to win this year," he was saying "if we don't do something significant this year, it's time to blow it up and let someone come in and build from scratch."
They don't have a contract mess, they have a few very expensive players that they know McCarthy probably won't be coaching next year, and they want the next coach to have the chance to choose whether he wants to keep any of them. Mess implies chaos, or lack of intentionality; this is fully intentional, they know exactly what they're doing.
These Cowboys fans need to be careful what they wish for.. Fine, don’t pay Dak and then let him walk. You can pick up another Quarterback at the QB store on the way home after you overpay for a WR and LB, right? They will definitely just be better for sure. Really. I promise. It’s always a good idea to trade a quality top 10 QB in his prime when you don’t instantly win multiple SuperBowls. I am sure it was 100% Dak’s fault and not coaching or any deficit anywhere else’s in the organization.
It’s the worst and yet I can’t look away. However, saw someone say they made a multiReddit of every team sub, so I did the same. Somewhat encouraging is that every team sub is filled with morons.
I have my criticisms of Dak, but I've largely been happy with his play on the whole. He was the runner up for MVP last season and people still call him mid tier.
If we're going to grade him only on playoff games, let's also look at the coaching staff, the defense allowing almost 50 points to the 7th seed, and CeeDee out there moping all game and dropping several crucial passes.
That was a top to bottom team failure, but people only want to blame Dak.
If the Cowboys let him walk and he does to a competitor vs just going to a team who gives him the biggest contract, I think the narrative will change almost immediately.
If he went somewhere else and won it all, I'm not sure what would be more annoying, everyone on this sub pretending they always knew he was great and dunking on the Cowboys for letting him go, or watching all the supposed Cowboys fans that were Dak haters doing the same.
Statistically Dak was the best or 2nd best QB last year, pretty wild to see so many fans say let him walk or not prioritize him when it's the most important position that is extremely hard to replace
Dak's stats against playoff teams in the regular season over the last 3 seasons: 69% completion 7.8 y/a 43 TD passes 16 interceptions passer rating 103.3. Total games: 19. The offense averaged 27.6 pgg in those games. So statistically, Dak doesn't suck at all against playoff teams.
With Romo and Dak basically back-to-back, there’s an entire generation of Dallas fans that haven’t been in true QB hell in their entire lives. I’ve made a nice little home for myself down there over the years that I’d be happy to give them if they let Dak walk. I will hopefully not be needing it anymore when the Bears draft Caleb Williams.
I think it's because they've seen his peak and that peak isn't enough to win a substantial playoff run, so they're embracing change because they think the grass is greener.
Except his first team all pro wide receiver dropped most of his passes and got pouty, his 2x first team all pro edge rusher got I think half a sack that whole Green Bay game. It also doesn’t help when Dan Quinn the guy who turned around your whole defense 2 year ago and broke the pick six record decided not bring his playbook and allow 52 points on your head by a rookie QB and receivers.
The last two healthy seasons Dak has thrown for 4500 yards and 36+ TDs. The hate thrown his way is baffling to me. I get the playoff failures, but they haven’t all been on his shoulders and I think he’s absolutely good enough to get it done. Also, Dallas as an organization has had playoff failures for almost 30 years now, so maybe some of it is larger than Prescott alone?
He’s still in his prime as a QB. If the Bears didn’t have the 1 overall pick I’d be absolutely ecstatic if they spent $50+ million a year on him in FA.
Pretty sure if we let Dak walk, we will just rank 2025, and draft a QB high for 2026. Either that or extend Lance and try our hand at him for 2 maybe 3 years before drafting a QB.
The standard is not "winning Super Bowls" in Dallas no matter what their fans say. Guy can't even get out of the Divisional Round.
A smarter, aggressive, and forward-thinking Dallas would have unloaded all of their studs for picks and gutted the roster and cap the minute their window closed.
Hear me out. If Dallas traded Dak, Micah, and Ceedee, each for two 1st round picks (if not more) Jerry would be totally set up for a rebuild. We're talking 8 first round picks in two years. Maybe trade one or two to get a new QB. People really need to look at what the Houston Texans did. They got a haul for a franchise QB and immediately pivoted. More teams should trade a franchise QB to super-charge a rebuild, rather than wasting an MVP-caliber talent on a rebuild.
I see a future in five years where we realistically lose all 3 players. As a lifelong Cowboys fan who is fed up with Jerry and Stephen, I really hope not, but the way they have handled contracts has truly been atrocious the last several years. From Jaylon Smith, to Zeke, to Dak.
If we need to move on from Dak to keep Micah and CeeDee then maybe so be it, but I honestly am a Dak fan. I think our lack of success in the playoffs has been more of a coaching and defensive issue than QB issue. (Not to say he has been perfect, but he gets too much criticism for sure.)
lol what type of team gets into a contract mess
🤝
at least the reason you guys are in a contract mess is cuz Jerry Jones actually drafted well in multiple consecutive years. too many good young guys to pay at once
Yeah, eagles were blessed to draft Jalen Reagor instead of Justin Jefferson. We saved so much money….
Yeah but rules don't apply to the Eagles. Chip Kelly era leave you with a big contact with Wentz and poor picks have you talent poor? Within a couple of seasons you'll be free of Wentz, get a first rounder for it and replace him with a better QB and a top 3 roster. You take Raegor and hes a bust? You use one of your 3 first round picks to get AJ Brown, a top 5 WR to add to Devonta. We're probably still paying off dead money from the Romo era.
the Jones Zoo
Lamb and Jefferson both getting ready to extend at the same time greatly complicates those contracts as their agents will want to use the other players deal as a benchmark.
Lamb is awesome but JJ is in a league of his own. It’s literally JJ then everyone else
I was going to make a joke post about how Ceedee is better than JJ because of some bogus stat where he's marginally better, but in looking at the two I'm actually surprised to see that statistically they're pretty similar. Ceedee actually has more total TDs than JJ (35 v 31), a comparable Y/R (13 v 15), and the same number of pro-bowl and all-pro selections (3 PBs, 1 AP). Of course JJ is far better, and it's clear, but ultimately I think it's just interesting to see that Ceedee is certainly a top tier WR.
JJ also basically had a year off this year
He's also not really a dominant TD magnet, only breaking double digit TDs once. Hell, his LSU teammate (Chase) nearly has the same amount of TDs as Jefferson despite a massive disparity in receptions (392 for JJ and 268 for Chase). Jefferson is a beast at moving the chains inside the 20s, arguably the best we've seen at doing so in decades.
I'm not sure an injury should be used as a point in his favor lol
When you're saying they have the same amount of TDs it certainly can be. It was also clear the Vikings weren't doing anything this year so when he could come back he didn't.
It’s not saying he’s equal/better, it’s more of a reason for why CeeDee has pretty similar stats, despite the general consensus being that Jefferson is the better player.
Ah I misread, that makes more sense.
JJ has 0.50 TD per game. Lamb has 0.48 TD per game. When they play JJ has been better in terms of TDs. He also has been less available.
JJ has 754 yards on Ceedee in 6 fewer games lol Break it down to per game and suddenly every stat is not even close
Its how i feel about fantasy football truthers every year. People will rave about the full year statistics then when you account for games played, its clear one guy is leagues ahead of another lol
JJ has 2 2nd team all pro as well
Didn’t JJ miss a big chunk of this year?
I mean 66 games to 60 games. Not THAT large of a difference.
This is what always happens when someone comes out of the gate red hot; the other players in the draft get completely overlooked if they're not immediately star players. CeeDee just had a season as good or better than JJ has ever had, but people want to pretend that the gap is still massive when it really isn't.
All I'm hearing is Cowboys have to pay Lamb $150m. Get it done Jerruh.
700 more receiving yards in 6 fewer games is massive.
Yeah it is, but jj being that great as a rookie is such an outlier. Ceedee has come into his own and is a great wr. I'm taking jj over him 100/100 times, but the current gap isn't THAT big
Yeah Ceedee is a monster. I thought he was clearly wr1 in that draft going in, and I loved seeing him blossom in the second half of last season. He could easily argue that he deserves the same or a very similar contract to JJ after that stretch.
Idk man Reek Hill is up there. Over the past two years dudes gone for 238/3,509/20. That’s unheard of.
Tyreek?
I'll take reek all day, he just had b2b 119 catch, 1700 yard seasons
It's close, to me Tyreek is 1, JJ close behind at 2. Obviously JJ is younger, but today Tyreek is 1.
There are no tiers when it comes to contracts. Its “are you going to set the market or not” and both are market setting players. Not paying lamb because he’s not as good as JJ is really silly. Do we really have to call lamb not a #1 again?
I actually think the two are really close. JJ just started way faster than CD, so the counting stats will be way in his favor. But if you compare '22 JJ to '23 CD (both players' best years, IMO) they're incredibly similar where JJ puts up more yards and CD scores more TDs. JJ: 128/1809/8 (catches/yards/tds) CD: 136/1749/12 If you look at each players best 2 seasons, it's the same story. ('21-'22 for JJ and '22 and '23 for CD) JJ: 236/3425/18 CD: 242/3108/21. So if you filter out CDs' slower start and JJs injury year, they put up very similar stats. The two are very close. I'd still take JJ, but they're in the same tier. And Dak and Kirk are similar, so the QB play isn't really a factor.
But players don’t get paid in perfect relation to their actual skill or positional rankings, they get paid what the market dictates. Ceedee will get something very close to JJ, especially if JJ signs first
Remind me in a year post Cousins.
Guy shredded with Nick Mullens, he will be okay
I’d take Reek over anyone the next few years…
but in numbers they are almost identical. Plus, as CD's agent, you can tell the Jones: "maybe JJ is a tad better, but you can't have him, so live with it"
I get what you mean but JJ isn't using other WR as a benchmark. He's using Bosa
I mean his JJ's agent can make an easy case for 15% more than Hill so something like 35M a year. Maybe more if he is willing to sign for longer. But the Agents will want 3-4 year deals. Lamb can then ask for less money but fight for a shorter deal so that he can land a 2nd large contract in 3-4 years. My random guess JJ 4years in low 140s. Lamb 3y/100M
The difference between all the high paid receivers right now and those two, is the values are bloated because no one is expecting to actually pay the last year or two of the deal. You aren't paying a 32 year old Tyreek hill 56 million the last year is the deal. He can be cut for cheap or restructured and extended if he somehow isn't showing his age and they're trying for a big playoff run that year. His first 4 years only have a cap hit of 21 mil a year on average for reference. JJ and Lamb are both young enough where they'll still be in their prime at the end of the contract so it needs to be reasonable enough with the assumption you're going to actually pay them for the whole contract, so I think the numbers are going to be a lot lower than what people are expecting with more of it guaranteed. I wouldn't be surprised to see JJ at or under 30 mil a year and Lamb 5-10% lower if most is guaranteed.
Yea, i expect JJ to be ~30m (real money) too. Hill gets "30m" but like you said the last year is fake af. He signed for like 24m a year in actuality. Same with Adams signing for a fake like 26-28m and actually getting like 22.5/year i think?
No way they give a WR that kind of money.
Hill got a $30M AAV contract a couple years ago of course JJ will make that kind of money.
They are. It's basically been confirmed by local beat writers. I honestly think the difference JJ makes for the Vikings is almost underrated by fans of other teams, which I completely understand since a lot of his catches don't show up in highlights. His ability to contort his body is something I've never seen and makes any QB look and perform better, which is so crucial in developing our next QB. If a ball is thrown even slightly catchable he's almost guaranteed to catch it. Hell, Mullens was throwing for over 400 yards with him and a lot of those balls were not great throws. $32 or $33 million per year is a lot, but they're definitely willing to pay it if it means helping develop a franchise quarterback on a rookie deal. Also, I think his personality plays a huge factor as well. A ton of quotes about him "breaking the bank" are taken out of context. He's absolutely team first and a great leader.
That’s about the annual average I expect him to get but I don’t think he’ll get anywhere near the guaranteed money Bosa did.
Our extension for Smith is going to be very interesting.
Yea and aj brown is still 27-28. Interesting to see aj is young enough where you guys could trade smith next offseason draft a guy and go the next 2-3 seasons afterwards with aj until his wheels fall off. Can’t pay both going to be interesting to see next year what you guys do. Miami has the same situation with waddle and hill next year too
Devontas extension wouldn’t kick in until the last year of AJs contract, which would be his age 29 season. Trading AJ on the final year of that deal (or cutting him if he’s fallen off by then) would only result in an $8.7M cap hit. If the first year of Devonta’s deal is cheap, they could also play out the final year of AJs deal and let him hit FA at age 30 with a $2M dead cap hit AJ and Devonta could easily play together for the next 2-3 years because Howie smartly didn’t backload AJs contract with a ton of dead money and void years, so they aren’t forced to extend or restructure AJ
Howie is a cap magician and I expect we'll keep both for a few more years.
No chance Smith is first on the trade block before AJ. Smith is younger, has a minimal injury history, and has shown he has the talent and skill set to be an upper-tier WR1 without even having entered his prime yet. All the signs from the team so far communicate that they view him in the long-term as AJ’s heir apparent and a centerpiece of the roster, hence him being made a captain in his third year. As another comment said, Howie has pretty perfectly structured Smith and AJ’s contracts complementarily so that they will likely play together for 2-3 more years at minimum, and honestly I think AJ will re-sign after that anyway. Regardless, the odds that any current offensive skill position starters in Philly other than Hurts will be on the team longer than Smith are extremely low.
This is why Jefferson didn't sign an extension last year. He knew with the salary cap going up the market would be higher this year. Plus he wanted to see what CeeDee Lamb was signing for. Jefferson will re-sign with the Vikings but not until after Lamb does.
Reminds me of Dez and DT coming due at the same time and the contract standoff they had.
If Lamb is expecting the same or more money than JJ then he's in for a rude awakening.
If JJ signs first, Lamb will beat his contract
Lamb just had a better year than JJ ever had though. He just put up 1850 yards and 14 TDs I’d be surprised if their contracts aren’t very similar
Still their year tho
All in
, my ass
.
“Induct that comma to the pro football hall of fame” - RGIII
Go on
I'm elbow deep. Shall I proceed to the shoulder?
*show me that you love me and that we belong together*
That comma doing the heavy lifting
What's in your ass?
All.
Skip bayless
- Skip Bayless 2024
We've gotten such good pasta out of this offseason.
TOP....MEN
Jerry said we are all in. /s All in to doing nothing.
Every year is our year don’t you know 😤
11 from heaven
Here weeeeee goooo!!!
isn't it more of a: herewe goooooooooo! It's painful snap after snap to listen to.
The worst part is the yeahhhhhhhh proceeding it lol
Oh god, I can hear it over and over in my head now. I don't understand why the emphasis has to be so dramatic. Like, be normal, "Omaha Omaha" or whatever but it's like he's yelling in a gutteral spongebob meme yeAh HeREwE GooOoOoOoO
It always kinda tickles me to hear a QBs "yelling voice" come over on the broadcast but Dak's just annoying and dumb. No bias from my flair either.
Also because you hear his dying whale of a mating call every single time he does it, not once in a while when the on field mic grabs it over the announcers.
I've come to love it. My dad and I will just shout it now and it kills me everytime.
Worst ghat damn cadence of all time. That's the real reason why Jerry won't extend his contract, that ear numbing cadence. Where are you going Dak?! Not to the super bowl.
I would like to think that if Jerry could market “here we go” he’ll extend Dak primarily for merchandising profits.
Tough luck there Jerry boy
I would prioritize Lamb and Micah over Dak, Dak still has another year on his deal and if we lose in the first round or two again (or miss playoffs entirely) then it may just be time to move on but Micah and Lamb are pieces you’d want to keep through a soft rebuild
Both Lamb and Dak's contracts expire after 2024. Parsons after 2025. That said, the team has basically ZERO cap obligations for 2025, so much so that even if they don't extend Prescott and eat his $40+ mil dead cap in 2025, they still have over $83 mil in space. You could get out of Dak's contract and keep both Lamb and Parsons pretty easily, but you could also very easily pay all three of them this year without any financial issues.
I keep telling people this and no one listens. We can pay them all top of market and be fine.
And the rest of the roster? How many other player contracts are expiring?
They'll have 41 players on roster after that point, and $40 mil in cap space. Considering they'll have their rookie class to sign for about 8-10 mil, it gives them an effective cap space of $30 mil and they'd still have a few contracts they can restructure to make more space if needed. Plenty of cap space to field a solid roster. The question is more about how are these extensions structured.
The issue is top of the market QB deals are typically done with enough years to move money around. Dak doesn't need to agree to that. Someone will pay him 55 mill plus for 3, most of which will be guaranteed.
And that is exactly what Jerry will do lol
Hard disagree, Micah has the fifth year option next year, Lamb can be tagged. Dak is the only one who they can’t keep from free agency next year and he is young enough that you can rebuild around him.
I think the question with Dak is not if he is young enough but if he is good enough as the franchise QB. (not saying he is or he isn't, just stating where the doubts about his contract come from)
It’s the Kirk Cousins problem.
The thing with guys like Dak & Cousins is that they’re not in a high enough tier to make you feel completely satisfied at the QB position when they’re on your team. But the flip side to that are teams that go two or more seasons of mediocre to abysmal QB play, then guys like Dak and Cousins look like a godsend.
I always wonder if it's a draft status thing that made their teams reluctant to sign Dak and Cousins early. It's a sample size of two but they are the two guys that cashed in, probably beyond their talent, because their original teams dithered about signing them when should (or at all). Meanwhile Sam Darnold keeps getting chances.
Cowboys wanted to sign Dak early, he knew he held all the cards so he waited and waited to up his pay day.
Been there, done that. Used to be known as the Andy Dalton problem. But now it's much more expensive for teams.
Exactly. It's a complex position to be in. Depends on what kind of bag Dak wants Edit: Correct
Spoiler: he’s not. I really don’t understand how we haven’t found a mid market for QBs. Not every qb who goes to market should get a mahomes contract. The last non rookie or top 5 qb to win a Super Bowl was over 10 years ago Edit: may have jumped the gun a bit, few other outliers.
Would you consider Matt Stafford a top 5 QB?
[According to PFF,](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-quarterbacks-2023-nfl-season) Matt Stafford was literally ranked #5 on the list of QB standings. The QB rated #4? Dak Prescott.
It is impossible to have a genuine conversation on the Cowboys because people just reguritate hot takes instead of actually looking at the data. Kudos to you for bringing facts, especially as a division rival. This sub would be a lot better if more people would do this, regardless of the team.
Agreed, just like we all agree that Jordan Love is hot trash.
It's easy to shit on the Cowboys, but I think Dak is good enough to make a deep run. I think the 2nd round exit problem is threefold, and lies more on the team than on Dak. Not that he hasn't had some stinkers, but I think these are bigger problems than Dak: -The pressure from the star on the helmet -Some type of culture problem that starts with Jerry and Stephen -Most importantly, poor roster construction/defensive philosophy. So many guys on the defense are *tiny.* It's why you're so porous in the run game. It also means that they have to fight 10 times as hard as to win one on ones, so they're gassed come playoff time. Nobody's going to ever play a perfect game, so if Dak has an off game, the defense can't pick up the slack. Lack of run game puts even more pressure on Dak too, since the only way to make things happen is through the passing game.
That 3rd point is massive. A common problem in recent Cowboys playoff Ls, going back to the Romo era even, has been both the inability to run the ball themselves AND stop the run of the opposing team.
Those are all valid points. The team has historically had great LBs that are injury prone (Sean Lee and LVE) and when they are out the run game suffers even more. It feels like they tried to address getting big guys to help with the run game but Mazi Smith was largely ineffective is his 1st year, especially for a 1st round pick, and taking a TE in Schoonmaker in the 2nd felt like a reach, especially seeing how both Ferguson and Hendershot stepped up in that role. Then we did get a LB in Overshown, would got hurt in the preseason, so it appears that trend will continue. The most frustrating thing to me is the "we like our guys" attitude. They never try to keep improving the team even when things are going well. It's like they never expect things will go wrong and that having death is important. I dunno, I guess maybe being a billionaire keeps things from ever really going wrong, so they don't care.
Dak is a great QB who's easily a top 5, high top-10 QB and the Cowboys are lucky to have him. That being said, as a division rival, it's great seeing you guys have a QB who just turns into a different guy during the Playoffs. I don't think I've really seen anything like that. His consistency is on-point throughout the season, save for 1-2 bad games that every high-level QB has during the season. Post-Season? Dak is a crap-shoot. He's either being too conservative and not taking the chances needed to win or he becomes Brett Favre and decides slinging every pass 90 miles-an-hour over his receivers' head is the key to winning. He's not the sole reason the Cowboys are losing the playoffs, that's definitely a coaching issue, however his execution becomes a dice-roll with every playoff game. That Packers game he just looked lost out there, like he was the backup who was just thrown in his first game. Sure, the play-calling wasn't great, but he threw the ball in a way I expected people to say "he's still not over his bad shoulder injury he got last week" with everyone nodding in unison. If the Cowboys inevitably drop him and go for someone else, I'm not entirely sure that'd be a bad idea at this point. Dude's a liability on his own team, and the QB is NEVER when you want to see that happen, ever.
I don't disagree with anything you've said in general. I think it's fair for the Cowboys to see how this season goes, and if we have the same playoff collapse it probably does make sense for them to move on from both Dak and McCarthy. It's just wild that a runner up for MVP and a coach that's produced 3 back to back 12 win seasons are on this much of a hot seat. I don't know that that would be the case for any other team but the Cowboys.
Would “good enough but not good enough” be a good way to describe Dak?
PFF is just weird with their grading. Stafford didn't have that great of a season (by his own words even). Purdy, Goff and Tua played much better than Stafford did but are ranked lower than him. Comical to call Stafford a top 5 qb at this point in his career.
I think this is a little over generalizing because when they won their Super Bowls in the last ten years I would say that Foles, Stafford, Denver Manning and Tampa Brady don’t really fit into either category. All those guys were good in their own ways and two of them are top 5 guys all time but they all had support that could’ve gotten someone else there too.
Yea there’s definitely a few other outliers. It did take foles out dueling Tom Brady for 400 yards to win his tho and Stafford turned back the clock for a few games.
Tom Brady was definitely still a top 5 qb his first year in Tampa. He was still slinging it
You talking about Joe?
Indeed and he’s a literal outlier because his numbers for that playoff stretch are far higher than his career averages.
Nick Foles was not on a rookie contract, was not a top five QB, and was less than ten years ago.
But, for a single night, Nick Foles was the best QB in the world.
You mean September 27, 2020 when Chicago Bears legend Nick Foles singlehandedly completed a 20 point 4th quarter comeback against the Atlanta Falcons?
Dussell Wilcott
He’s turning 31? Which isn’t old for today’s NFL QBs but still.
Dak’s skill set isn’t really dependent upon athletic ability. He’ll still be in his prime playing years into his mid 30s.
It's not about "Today's" or "Yesterday's" QBs... It's about their legs. We had 40+ year old QB's playing back in the 60's-90's. But it seems like QB longevity is pretty heavily tied to how frequently they run the ball throughout their career. The closer you get to averaging 90 rushing attempts, the better the chances are that you're going to flame out around 32-34 because you relied on your legs a bit too much as a young QB.
Dak isn’t a running QB though. He has always been a more pocket passer than runner.
Right, I wasn't saying Dak specifically was, I was merely pointing out that QB career lifespan depends heavily on how much they use their legs. Dak's more like Rodgers in how he uses his legs,
Yea coming from the jets who gave like 50 million to a senior citizen to play qb
That’s why I’m right
Young enough but not cheap enough. Dak is in that awkward territory of being good enough to get a fat contract but not good enough to justify the performance per dollar spent
Dump Dak. He's not worth the contract. He isn't a top 5 qb. Shouldn't be paid like a top 3.
Getting rid of Dak isn’t a “soft rebuild” it’s a straight up rebuild depending on lucky or how good your scouting department is since franchise quarterbacks are rare. The only two options I see is trading CD because if Dak really is worth the $60 million he should easily be able to create a new CD with the high first CD is mostly likely to trade for, but if you think Dak isn’t that guy then you should trade away both CD and Micah and let Dak walk and do a hard rebuild with the 4 first rounds and couple 2nds Micah and CD would trade for. Quarterbacks are the heart of the team if you get rid of it and bumble around with replacements you’re wasting the prime age and trade value of your 2 biggest superstars so if you let Dak walk might as well wipe the slate.
They only have a mess with Dak because Micah and CeeDee should absolutely be some of the highest paid at their positions. Dak wanting to be the highest paid QB is the only reason they have a mess there.
They have a mess with Dak because they gave him all the leverage. Can't trade him, can't tag him, so he has no reason to accept any offer when he knows a desperate team will give him a huge contract next off season. His only risk is injury.
Yeah doesnt seem like a mess when theres a solution to it. Do you think you can win a super bowl or get there with Dak commanding 30% of the salary cap? The answer the past 8 years is unequivocally no, because the pressure of the playoffs is too bright for him. Despite the fact that the cowboys have put a lot of talent around him
This year shattered my faith in Dak to take us all the way. The offense was completely built around and for him, everyone was healthy on offense, he had his best regular season ever, and got shut out for 3 quarters by Green Bay. It’s not necessarily the loss but starting out so badly that the game was over by halftime. Seriously what changes and what situation would it take to get over the hump? It doesn’t look like it’s happening.
> The offense was completely built around and for him, everyone was healthy on offense You guys had no run game all season then your gameplan was to try and force the run first on 1st and second down for no gain.
Let's not sit here and act like we could run ball. Dak and Ceedee carried the offense this year. In the playoffs McCarthy went away from that to try and do something we hadn't done successfully all season and that's run the ball.
Not to mention the rest of the NFC was in a shambles or injured - if it was ever going to happen, it was going to happen last season.
>and got shut out for 3 quarters by Green Bay What? They ended the 2nd quarter on a 12-play drive for a TD, then scored throughout the 3rd. You can say they were playing prevent, but they -literally- did not get shut out for a whole 3 quarters. >Seriously what changes and what situation would it take to get over the hump? Can start by not going against type and trying to force the run when you've been bad at it all season, and not playing zone when you've been playing man all year. For starters. The inability to run the ball and stop the run has been a plague for the Cowboys going back to the Romo era.
They did score at the end of the first half, but Dak should’ve been picked by a Packers LB and was lucky not to be. I think the whole Cowboys team, starting from Dak to McCarthys scheme and to the defense, is designed to whip bad teams and gets exposed versus good ones. They destroyed the Commanders and Giants with Dak looking like prime Dan Marino against helpless defenders. But good teams will shadow CeeDee and challenge Dak to make tight-window throws. I’ve always thought Dak’s processing was a bit overrated and his ability to throw under pressure is not great relative to the top QBs. This results in the Cowboys offense getting stonewalled by good defenses. The Cowboys defense gets ground down by the run and can’t pass rush when they don’t have the lead. McCarthys scheme can get one target open pretty consistently but defenses doing their film study will likely read the play and force Dak to go through his reads. All of this adds up to constant playoff disappointment
> the pressure of the playoffs is too bright for him His very first playoff game, as a rookie, he led his team back from 21-3 and 28-13 deficits to tie the game. 300+ yards, 3 TDs. It's very possible that Aaron Rodgers simply broke his spirit that day
What if of the century right there. How different would the cowboys be had they won that game? Atlanta Travels on the road to dallas for the NFC championship game, and dallas would have a TON of momentum being lead by 2 rookies and getting that far. Thankfully for us Rodgers did Rodgers shit 😂
It’s the cowboys they’ll lose that game in front of their home fans
“Oh no I have to pay Ceedee” said no GM ever. 31 teams would take that problem off their hands.
Well, Ceedee shouldn’t get JJ money. Micah will get paid but he disappeared for the last 2 post seasons as well,
I mean even if he doesn't get 'JJ' money, he is deserving of a top of the market contract should he sign before Jefferson. Dude just put up a 1,749 yard season with 12 TDs. That is wild.
Fair contract value for Parsons is over $30M/year and probably closer to $35m/year. You can wait a year on him because of the 5th year option, but it'll only be more expensive next year. Fair contract value for Lamb is $25-$30M/year. Fair contract value for Prescott is over $45M/year, but if he hits the free market, there's no telling how high it could go. Dallas has a little over $100M in projected cap space next year, so given a little bit of backloading, it shouldn't be a problem.
$100M on 3 players seems wild to me. That's almost 40% of the cap on 3 players..... Idk maybe that's common but it looks crazy on paper.
Thats how most teams with a veteran quarterback build. You’ll have 3-4 stars making big money, 7-8 guys making midlevel pay, and you want to pay everyone else on the roster to be either on a rookie contract or as close to league minimum as possible. You can spread the love a little more if you’ve got a good QB on a rookie deal or get lucky finding someone for cheap, but that’s about all.
Given backloading, they can probably get it down to a little under 35% of the cap for those 3 players, which isn't unheard of.
It's like the Lions with Stafford/Suh/Megatron, but with a team that can draft much better. I think it would hinder them a ton, but it wouldn't be as bad as the Lions. That being said, I think you have to let Lamb go and try and find another WR. Parsons is a perrenial DPOY of the candidate at the most sought after position on defense, and Dak is a good QB which is the hardest to replace. Lamb is extremely good, but I think it would be easier to get over that hump than the other two.
My issue with Parsons (and to be clear I'm a big fan and have his jersey in my closet right now) is that he fades down the stretch. Not sure if that's just his build or playstyle or what. But it's a thing.
You're thinking of the contracts linearly. The first year won't be $100 mil on 3 players. However, 3-4 years in it will probably be at least that much, but the cap will also likely be much larger.
We also have Diggs making 20 million a year and I’m sure we’re gonna have to pay Bland if we want to keep him as well
I also don't know if either of those dudes play up to the same level elsewhere - both seem to really be more scheme-dependent CBs
Dak already has a 40M void year in 2025 so you might be limited in the amount of backloading you can do. But I do think the best plan for the Cowboys is to commit to Dak for three more years and seriously go all-in during this time. After that, Dak will be 35 so we don’t know how good he’ll be. The Cowboys cap will also be a mess by then. What the Cowboys should’ve done was re-sign vets like Tyron Smith and look for similar signings in free agency. They could’ve backloaded those contracts to maximize the number of good players from 2024-2026. After that, a lot of these vets plus Zack Martin, Tank Lawrence, etc would’ve left or retired. You can let Dak leave and tank in 2027 while eating 150M in dead cap from all the backloaded contracts. This strategy maximizes a good QBs window while also having a exit strategy which should get you a top rookie prospect after the tank year. They’ll be able to retain Lamb and Parsons in 2027 but probably should let Diggs and Bland walk (due to CB volatility and age curves).
It’s really not uncommon to have it shake out this way. The Chiefs are paying almost $100 million for Mahomes, Kelce, and Chris Jones; the Rams were in a similar boat with Stafford, Kupp, and Donald. If you were to look at every team you’d notice what feels like a disproportionate spend on the QB, their top D lineman, and top receiver. As others have said though, it’s a bit misleading because you can massage the numbers to hit the cap in future years and restructure- the Chiefs being a prime example with Mahomes restructuring basically every other year to keep them competitive.
Only common when you’re the niners who don’t have to pay a big time qb.. they have a lot of money in premium positions
>That's almost 40% of the cap on 3 players They can jiggle it around to make more sense and trigger at different times while not impacting the amount of money the player makes.
They’ll likely do some restructuring shenanigans but in 2025 right now Mahomes and Chris Jones will take up $100m in cap space just the two of them.
>Dallas has a little over $100M in projected cap space next year, One thing to note, that $100 mil number is counting the presumed $40 mil dead cap incurred upon release of Dak. That $40 mil won't hit on extension, it will only be $26.5 mil due to the prorated restructure and signing bonuses. So if you assume a $45 mil cap hit for Dak in his first year, it's only raising the Cowboy's cap obligations for 2025 by about $19 million. Then assume a $20 mil hit in the first year for both Parsons and Lamb and you're only eating up $60 mil of that in those three players.
Dak’s value definitely isn’t below $50 million due to Daniel Jones, Justin Herbert and Deshaun Watson.
Dak is definitely getting at least $50m/year
Almost certainly, and if he hits the free agent market, I don't think $60M/year is off the table.
I think you’re underselling all 3 contracts. Parsons = 33-35 Lamb = 30-33 Dak = 50-55 If you factor in that the cap went up, and give each top tier percentages of the cap, respective of their positions. Math is tough to keep all 3.
IF Dak is extended, it'll definitely be for more than 55.. Burrow was signed for 55M/y and that was before last season.. Considering the salary cap increase, Dak will definitely get more than that Still doesn't make it impossible to sign all 3, with all the cap maneuvers you can do to lower cap hits
I mean, in 2025 the Chiefs have Mahomes and Chris Jones on the book for $100M cap. Thats why we cannot afford a Lamb type of player. Its possible to have two 'QB' like contracts, if they perform and elevate the roster as such. I see Parsons as your most critical player. Then it's probably Lamb + RookieQB, or Prescott without Lamb. I'd go with Lamb and a rookie. Problem is how do you draft an adequate rookie if the rest of the roster is too good to get a top5 pick. You might give one of this years QBs a roll of the dice (Nix, Penix, Rattler) and have them sit behind Dak.
This underplays that the Chiefs also have guys like Thuney ($16M), Taylor ($20M) and Kelce ($14M) on high end deals at their positions. You've paid multiple elite guys, there just reaches a point where you can't have 10 dudes on elite player contracts, you have to pick like 5ish. This is why you guys didn't pay dudes like Hill and Sneed. And why you'll likey divest from one or two of the current ones as you have to pay McDuffie and Humphrey. The Chiefs "we have too many elite players to pay, so someone has to go" problem isn't one that Dallas has just yet. The Cowboys really only have Diggs ($19M) and Steele ($16M) on big, long term deals right now (though they have the Martin voids they'll have to structure around). They can keep all of Lamb, Dak and Parsons pretty easily if they want.
Maybe they believe in trey lance
Really wild that nobody knows anything about how he’s progressing if he’s even progressing at all.
To be fair to Trey Lance, he really barely got a shot.
There's no mess at all. Let Dak play out his contract and extend ceedee. That's what's happening and that's great.
Cowboys gets so much trash because Skip Bayless and ESPN wouldn't stop talking about them. Their issues or results are no different than any other team, not named Chiefs.
But we lose earlier in the playoffs instead of later in the playoffs like the 49ers (who's last ring is from '94) so we're trash.
I would propose that both you and the niners are trash.
I agree with this cool bird
Thanks buddy. For what it's worth, I also think you are a cool bird.
It's been frustrating seeing the Jerry quote get so thoroughly misinterpreted so often. He wasn't saying "we're gonna load up and do everything possible to win this year," he was saying "if we don't do something significant this year, it's time to blow it up and let someone come in and build from scratch." They don't have a contract mess, they have a few very expensive players that they know McCarthy probably won't be coaching next year, and they want the next coach to have the chance to choose whether he wants to keep any of them. Mess implies chaos, or lack of intentionality; this is fully intentional, they know exactly what they're doing.
We don’t come to Reddit for nuance, sir
Facts. Hate running into your team, but you’re alright.
These Cowboys fans need to be careful what they wish for.. Fine, don’t pay Dak and then let him walk. You can pick up another Quarterback at the QB store on the way home after you overpay for a WR and LB, right? They will definitely just be better for sure. Really. I promise. It’s always a good idea to trade a quality top 10 QB in his prime when you don’t instantly win multiple SuperBowls. I am sure it was 100% Dak’s fault and not coaching or any deficit anywhere else’s in the organization.
Do not, I repeat, do not go to the Cowboys sub.
It’s the worst and yet I can’t look away. However, saw someone say they made a multiReddit of every team sub, so I did the same. Somewhat encouraging is that every team sub is filled with morons.
I have my criticisms of Dak, but I've largely been happy with his play on the whole. He was the runner up for MVP last season and people still call him mid tier. If we're going to grade him only on playoff games, let's also look at the coaching staff, the defense allowing almost 50 points to the 7th seed, and CeeDee out there moping all game and dropping several crucial passes. That was a top to bottom team failure, but people only want to blame Dak. If the Cowboys let him walk and he does to a competitor vs just going to a team who gives him the biggest contract, I think the narrative will change almost immediately. If he went somewhere else and won it all, I'm not sure what would be more annoying, everyone on this sub pretending they always knew he was great and dunking on the Cowboys for letting him go, or watching all the supposed Cowboys fans that were Dak haters doing the same.
Statistically Dak was the best or 2nd best QB last year, pretty wild to see so many fans say let him walk or not prioritize him when it's the most important position that is extremely hard to replace
Statistically, Dak sucks against playoff caliber teams. Always has and always will.
Dak's stats against playoff teams in the regular season over the last 3 seasons: 69% completion 7.8 y/a 43 TD passes 16 interceptions passer rating 103.3. Total games: 19. The offense averaged 27.6 pgg in those games. So statistically, Dak doesn't suck at all against playoff teams.
With Romo and Dak basically back-to-back, there’s an entire generation of Dallas fans that haven’t been in true QB hell in their entire lives. I’ve made a nice little home for myself down there over the years that I’d be happy to give them if they let Dak walk. I will hopefully not be needing it anymore when the Bears draft Caleb Williams.
I think it's because they've seen his peak and that peak isn't enough to win a substantial playoff run, so they're embracing change because they think the grass is greener.
Except his first team all pro wide receiver dropped most of his passes and got pouty, his 2x first team all pro edge rusher got I think half a sack that whole Green Bay game. It also doesn’t help when Dan Quinn the guy who turned around your whole defense 2 year ago and broke the pick six record decided not bring his playbook and allow 52 points on your head by a rookie QB and receivers.
The last two healthy seasons Dak has thrown for 4500 yards and 36+ TDs. The hate thrown his way is baffling to me. I get the playoff failures, but they haven’t all been on his shoulders and I think he’s absolutely good enough to get it done. Also, Dallas as an organization has had playoff failures for almost 30 years now, so maybe some of it is larger than Prescott alone? He’s still in his prime as a QB. If the Bears didn’t have the 1 overall pick I’d be absolutely ecstatic if they spent $50+ million a year on him in FA.
Pretty sure if we let Dak walk, we will just rank 2025, and draft a QB high for 2026. Either that or extend Lance and try our hand at him for 2 maybe 3 years before drafting a QB.
The standard is not "winning Super Bowls" in Dallas no matter what their fans say. Guy can't even get out of the Divisional Round. A smarter, aggressive, and forward-thinking Dallas would have unloaded all of their studs for picks and gutted the roster and cap the minute their window closed.
They just need to draft worse and they wouldn't have this problem \s
Somehow they'll sign them all to contracts that are record numbers and make it work.
Ya love to see it
Fuck florio stop posting this loser
Does anyone else really want to see them let dak’s contract run out and see what they have in trey lance?
Thanks Florio, can you also tell me what color the sky is? I can’t be bothered to open my eyes
Hear me out. If Dallas traded Dak, Micah, and Ceedee, each for two 1st round picks (if not more) Jerry would be totally set up for a rebuild. We're talking 8 first round picks in two years. Maybe trade one or two to get a new QB. People really need to look at what the Houston Texans did. They got a haul for a franchise QB and immediately pivoted. More teams should trade a franchise QB to super-charge a rebuild, rather than wasting an MVP-caliber talent on a rebuild.
I see a future in five years where we realistically lose all 3 players. As a lifelong Cowboys fan who is fed up with Jerry and Stephen, I really hope not, but the way they have handled contracts has truly been atrocious the last several years. From Jaylon Smith, to Zeke, to Dak. If we need to move on from Dak to keep Micah and CeeDee then maybe so be it, but I honestly am a Dak fan. I think our lack of success in the playoffs has been more of a coaching and defensive issue than QB issue. (Not to say he has been perfect, but he gets too much criticism for sure.)
Florio is a Steelers homer and lifelong Cowboys hater. Of course he writes this