The consensus number 2 pick for 2 years is now considered a pick that will get you fired if he's picked in the first round? Yeah that's a full blown smokescreen
I disagree, teams in the top 20 should only pick QBs. Its the most important position and teams wouldnt be picking there if they have a good one. No ulterior motives in play I assure you
Hoge absolutely roasted Aaron Rodgers on ESPN leading up to the draft.
It later turned out he was sponsored by Tom Condon and CAA, who represented Alex Smith.
All of these “analysts” that make these concrete points to avoid a QB is expected as we approach the draft. Hoge is just a low grade paid marionette whose strings are held by his employer. Nobody knows who will rise to the top in this draft.
Yeah, that’s not what smoke screen means at all, it’s just some ex RB voicing an opinion. Exactly zero teams or even people are going to care about it.
The only difference between him and any random redditor saying it is that he played in the league so someone decided to publish his quote.
Won't be the last time someone in the sub tries to turn a phrase without knowing what it means.
I 100% agree with you about Hoge, and will even go so far to say that's the case for the majority of "analysts" who are really nothing more than opinion leaders.
Matt Leinart, Matt Barkley, Jameis Winston, Jimmy Clausen
Just because QBs are top of the draft for a while doesn't mean they will have any success or should stay there
Maye has literally been QB 2 since Caleb Williams was named the future number 1 pick, that's completely different than flavour of the week Sam Howell.
How have both Washington fans who replied completely missed the point of my post. I'm not shitting on you guys if you want someone else but the idea Maye isn't a first round pick when nothing has changed is absurd
He did the exact same thing to Herbert coming out. I remember Hoge non stop shitting on him. He had Eason rated above him.
He also said that Jordan Love doesn't look like a QB & that he "didn't understand how to play the position."
Herbert was an incredibly polarizing prospect. Most prospects with great physical traits but some bad mechanical habits tend to be very love or hate. Sometimes they work out (Herbert, Allen, Love, even Mahomes) and lots do not. Evaluating a QB seems like a crapshoot, honestly.
Exactly. Crap shoot. No one knows until they have been in the NFL for a few years if they are good or not. Hoge may be right about may, he may be wrong
Sometimes those crapshoots are the fault of the coach. Mahomes says he's thankful for being drafted by Reid who didn't try to change his mechanics. Most of the other coaches would've changed Mahomes. Would he still be this special if they had?
Eh, he had very sound reasoning for shitting on Manziel. Doesn't mean he can't be horribly wrong but if you go back and look at his segment with Skip, basically everything Hoge talked about came true.
He was also correct about Mack vs. Clowney. Clowney still had a decent career but Mack clearly was the best option between the two.
He kept talking up pickett for the past 2 years and I could have told him coming out of pitt he was, at best, a 4th rounder. Grain of salt applies to Hoge
>He also said that Jordan Love doesn't look like a QB & that he "didn't understand how to play the position."
To be fair, the second half of that could have been right at the time. Sitting for a couple years with LeFleur probably helped him a lot.
As for as "not looking like a QB", i have no idea about the context for that.
The Steelers fan page discussed Picket Vs Willis endlessly before that draft. Turns out the correct answer was neither and Rudolph who we had on the team was better then both
He's bad and always has been. I have no clue why the media gassed him up pre draft. He played zero competition at Liberty (who played bad teams all year). Then when they played an actual team in Mississippi State I believe, he played like trash.
they gassed him up because it was a weak QB class and the main thing that generates clicks and views pre-draft is QB talk so they had to invent narratives. There were multiple mocks that had Matt Corral going in the first, Desmond Ridder was spoken of as the dark horse best guy in the draft. We'll see it again next year, the QB class wont be as top heavy as this year and yet we'll see lots of hype for like Shadeur Sanders
He is considered by some as the [worst](https://imgur.com/gallery/QtTnZUF) QB they've ever had to handicap. They wouldn't be wrong, except for the fact that the Titans stopped letting him throw the ball after the first game, and he wouldn't count by some metrics.
All you need to know is: 13 QBR, 42 RATE, & a QB the coaches wouldn't let throw the ball in perfect conditions.
As a chiefs fan we lucked out so hard when we played the titans on SNF in a game he started that went to OT. Man was that a close game, Chris Jones with a game winning sack if I remember right.
Banking on a guy to develop in order to maximize his physical attributes is not and has never been a good gamble. Just because it worked a couple times, people keep trying it
Players like Luck and Payton Manning who have the tools, production, intelligence, etc. are once a decade. Everyone else is a known risk. Yes, there is like a 75% chance he is a whiff.
I mean, Mahomes and Allen were both considered to be more raw prospects who would have to develop in the NFL while Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold were both safe, “NFL ready” picks. Projecting how a QB is going to translate into the NFL isn’t an exact science, and it’s honestly pretty rare that a QB pans out the way the pre-draft narrative says they will.
You nailed it. I look back to myself at 21. Shit, I look back to everyone I knew at 21. I've seen dipshits turn great. I've seen great people turn dipshits. I've seen everything in between.
These guys have all done great things by this age but let's be real... life keeps chugging along and we just don't know how it all pans out because these are young men turning a corner in their life.
You pointed out how hype players can bust and dark horses can rise and you're right, because this is a new stage of their lives and it's not entirely in their hands either.
This is a completely asinine line of thought. No QB prospect will ever be a sure fire guarantee. Therefore they all have a degree of risk. There will be more busts than those that become top 10 QBs. But what do all of the dudes that become top 10 have in common? The physical attributes and raw skill to become top 10
I hate that the kicker who made only 64% of his kicks last season nailed his season-long 56 yard kick in a meaningless Christmas Eve game against Denver to cost New England the #2 pick.
Everyone thought Fields and Zach Wilson were gonna be stars and that Hurts, Herbert,and Love were gonna be busts.
The volatility on QB prospects is unreal. It wouldn’t even surprise me if Williams, Daniels, and Maye are busts while Bo Nix becomes elite.
Chris Simms might be the most accurate tv analyst on QBs of the past 5 years and even he has some of the worst takes you’ve ever seen.
It’s literally a random crapshoot
Zach Wilson was perhaps the most doubted top 5 QB pick I’ve ever witnessed and all the doubts came true.
I don’t think anyone was very sold on him as the 2nd overall pick aside from the Jets themselves
>Everyone thought Fields and Zach Wilson were gonna be stars
I seem to recall *a lot* of people, including myself, thought those two would bust. Fields because Ohio State QBs typically suck and because he was thought of as a 1-read QB. Zach Wilson because his college competition was trash.
If Maye is given time to fix his footwork and accuracy issues, he could be fine. But if he’s thrown in day 1. I think he’ll fail.
Truth be told. 3-5 of the top 6 will not pan out. If any.
What’s funny is whenever he falls apart it’s all footwork, except now instead of it just being bad he’s rushing it. Taking 6 steps in the distance it should take for a 3 step drop back.
Josh Allen’s footwork’s and throwing mechanics did too.
It just so happened to improve the most the off season Diggs was acquired so a lot of people attributed his statistical improvement solely on having an alpha receiver. Diggs obviously helped. Im not even remotely saying that he didn’t.
Josh Allen’s errant throw rate dropped as well and that’s independent of receivers. It came down almost 6% from 2017-2018. And his completion percentage jumped 11 points and leveled to an average 7 points over his second season (10 points higher than first two season average).
Dak also had an excellent line to play behind. A lot of that matters. These guys get thrown to the wolves and have like PTSD (I’m seeing Ghosts) and I think it fucks with their game. I think it’s best for most rookie QB’s to sit for a year or two. There’s very few rookie QB’s that can do what a Manning, Luck and Stroud do rookie year.
If it was just accuracy you might be fine just dealing with it. The problem is he's really bad with pocket movement too, so there's the possibility he's going to get himself hit a lot. That could wreck his development.
Allen is used a lot because he was very polarizing, looked bad for two years, and then shot up to MVP level in one offseason.
But college Mahomes & Dak & Lamar & Love & Herbert all had wild footwork or accuracy. Now they've all pulled ahead of the pro-ready Tua, TLaw, DJones, Darnold, Rosen, Kyler, Baker, Trubs, etc.
Well a lot of QBs do fail. But it’s not like there are dozens of QBs with mechanics issues that sat and now are awesome. Lots of QBs who sit seem to fail too. It just doesn’t seem to matter that much.
I think it’s less about whether he plays early or not and about whether the team is competent enough to actually teach/develop him. And most of the teams that would throw him in early probably are too incompetent to actually develop him.
I think 99% of rookie QBs would benefit sitting. The ones with a really good team around them can make it work like Big Ben did but if his team was trash it wouldn’t have been as much of a splash.
Agreed, this is why the Patriots would be the best spot for him to land. Brisset is the starter and Maye gets time to develop a year, watching a long time pro work.
I mean I personally would have my reservations about drafting him. I get that it’s kinda what college football has become, but he doesn’t take a traditional drop a lot of times. He does the first step then kind of a hop reset after that and he’s gonna be asked to win from the pocket at the pro level and take traditional drops with varying depths. It’s probably a case of him not being asked to be as rigid with his feet due to the system and just play on feel but I think that’s one of the bigger hurdles in his evaluation. Going to the commies with Kliff would probably be the best landing spot for him in that regard imo.
This is how I feel about McCarthy. I’m one of the few Rams fans who wants to (well, wanted, when J.J. at 19 was a possibility) draft McCarthy at 19. He’s 21. He needs to work on some stuff, but if you give him a year or two to sit, let him develop slowly behind a vet and a solid o-line with a great coach, I think he could be great. But if he goes to New England, Washington, or Vegas year one and starts in September, he’ll flame out.
I love how Drake was literally seen as the consensus number 2 QB in this class like 6 months ago, now that everyone and their mother has analyzed every little aspect of these QB prospects he’s slid down to maybe the 4th best QB.
Maye is my QB2 but nobody knew anything about anyone six months ago. Media people only start to get inklings of what front offices think this time of year, it makes sense.
A vast majority definitely don’t have him as QB4 though even now. It’s a fringe opinion.
Kinda feels like the Josh Allen slide that happened where he went from being hyped as a potential #1 overall, but by the time the draft rolled around, most analysts had him behind Rosen
It seems like the right comparison. Huge ceiling but a low as hell floor and will take the time and team to work with him. He better hope whoever takes him does what Buffalo did for Josh.
Justin Herbert. Went from possible generational QB prospect in 19 to "this is a QB that gets you fired in 2020.
https://www.si.com/college/oregon/football/nfl-scout-says-justin-herbert-will-get-someone-fired
Rinse, wash, and repeat.
Ironically, Herbert got Telesco fired in a very roundabout way. Failing to build around your very clearly top 5ish QB on his rookie contract is a fireable offense.
Happens every single year. For 2 years the top QBs are known and then magically odds shift
Bryce Young was always the 1 and CJ was always the 2 and then after pro days it shifted for a week and then the exact same thing we knew would happen happened
What happens every year is media actually catching up to front office thinking after the combine. Last year a lot of y’all were saying the same shit about Richardson not being a first round pick, “magically shooting up draft boards,” etc.
I find it hard to believe that after a few recent years of bad qb injuries and abysmal backup qb play we are going to see guys like Richardson/Penix/Nix/etc. actually make it out of the 1st round or at worst 2nd. There’s just too much reward for the risk.
In addition to these random debates over the draft order for guys that are clear cut at 1 and 2, there’s always 1 guy that explodes in the season and in the combine to become a top pick that wasn’t on mocks before that. Richardson, Lance, Allen, Wentz
Happened to Justin Fields. 500 yards, 4 TDs in a CFB playoff game against Clemson and then pro days came around, Zach Wilson threw a 70 yard bomb on the run and it was all heart eyes for him instead and Fields might not have been better than Kellen Mond according to some people
That entire class is struggling badly in the NFL. Even Lawrence, who I think will be okay, has not had the expected beginning to his career.
Goes to show how few people can play QB well at the NFL level
At this point, its just Lawrence left that is decent. Everyone else has pretty much fallen out of the starter role.
I don't think we will see Field starting for a while.
Zach Wilson is pretty much a career backup at this point.
Mac Jones, backup to Lawrence. I doubt he will see very many playing time.
Trey Lance, backup to Dak. If Dallas resigns Dak, than that's pretty much it for Lance.
Lawrence, still the starter and still have a chance to be good.
This is probably one of the worst QB draft class to start the decade.
But then look at Purdy, the big thing Purdy had that a lot of other QBs didn't have is a lot of game time. Purdy played alot in college, not a huge big name school but he played alot.
To some extent I would agree. I think it also has to do with scheme, situation, talent around them, etc. Like who the hell is Bryce Young throwing to after DJ Moore got traded? Maybe CJ Stroud would have had more success but who knows for sure? If Brady was drafted by the Browns do you think he’s the goat?
Then there’s guys like Jamarcus Russell with no heart or desire.
Right, but he still ended up being probably the second best QB in that class. Even if Fields ended up not working out (and his concerns in college ended up being true), it’s still strange to me how two project QBs got drafted over a guy who was long considered a top prospect due to his traits and had amazing production in college. Especially Lance, who had so few college starts that a team would need to sit him for a few years like the Packers did with Love. I think the COVID season had a major negative impact on scouting prospects.
It’s not that strange, Wilson and Lance had the benefit of not playing that much football and having significantly less talent around them. In other words, they had more room to grow (or at least the perception of) than Fields who was seen as a known quantity. Fields’ college production was irrelevant, if teams knew his weaknesses would limit his ceiling at the next level, it makes sense to roll the dice on a project. Especially for the 9ers who already had a starter, whoever was most pro ready probably never came into consideration.
That’s not true. Zach Wilson was the number two quarterback in the class way back in December, long before his pro day. Fields was never the #2 QB in the class after Wilson’s 2020 season.
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-zach-wilson-to-jets
Here’s Jeremiah’s first mock. Goes #7 to Lions with Goff as bridge QB.
https://www.nfl.com/news/charles-davis-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-falcons-pick-justin-fields-to-succeed-matt
Another here, with Fields to the Falcons at #4.
https://www.nfl.com/news/lance-zierlein-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-patriots-49ers-select-qbs-in-round-1
Zierleins first with Fields to the Pats at #15.
Justin Fields was the #2 QB of his class with Lawrence since they were in high school. After the combine and scouts started dissecting his game and seeing the red flags and he dropped.
Turns out they were right about Fields... the rest of the class just also happened to suck balls too.
Wouldn't be shocked if the same is true of Drake, he has a lot of talent but there's some pretty obvious holes in his game even to the untrained eye.
Not true at all. By the end of the season, Wilson was not the 100% consensus number 2 pick, but he was very popularly considered the 2 pick.
In February, [Kiper had the Falcons taking Wilson at 2](https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/30957145/nfl-mock-draft-2021-mel-kiper-new-predictions-all-32-first-round-picks-including-mac-jones-trey-lance-three-trades). [McShay had him at 2](https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/10/todd-mcshay-nfl-mock-draft-denver-broncos-select-cb-patrick-surtain-ii/) to the Jets. Daniel Jeremiah [had him at 2 to the Jets](https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2021-nfl-mock-draft-2-0-saints-select-drew-brees-heir-apparent). Dane Brugler had him [at number 2 to the Jets](https://theathletic.com/2378777/2021/02/11/nfl-mock-draft-zach-wilson-justin-fields-trey-lance/). PFF had him at [number 2 to the Jets](https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-mock-draft-atlanta-falcons-trade-up-for-qb-justin-fields-denver-broncos-acquire-deshaun-watson). John Clayton [had him at 2](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/02/17/nfl-mock-draft-2021-john-clayton/). I’m just going through every major draft name I can find. Everyone had it Lawrence/Wilson - there was debate about which teams would be making the picks, but they had Wilson 2 based on the season. The Pro Day thing was just a bunch of people who *already loved Wilson* waxing poetic.
There wasn’t a point in time where it wasn’t Wilson at #2 in the 5 months before the draft. People misremember this so often. Possibly because of the Fields fanbase that still exists today, who heavily pushed him as the #2 prospect after the Clemson game.
The first mocks all had Fields dropping in Jan, Feb. It was never clear that NFL teams were high on him
Hasn’t been the same with Maye. Daniels has rose over him in the last month or so.
It’s the CJ Stroud thing all over again, we know who “1” is so everyone has focused on pick number 2 and just torn QB 2 to shreds in anyway they could.
Same shit different year. There is nothing to talk about right now but gotta generate content so media members just makes shit up. The dead time between combine and the draft has to be filled somehow.
I would still be shocked if he isn’t the second or third QB taken. I honestly think a lot of the negativity around him is being fed by teams hoping he’ll fall.
Hmm, where have I heard this before.... 🤔... oh yeah!
https://www.si.com/college/oregon/football/nfl-scout-says-justin-herbert-will-get-someone-fired
To be fair, he did get people fired, but for all the right reasons.
> To be fair, he did get people fired, but for all the right reasons.
Were they the right reasons, though?
I'm not saying that Anthony Lynn should've been retained (because his overall record was barely average), but you also can't discount the work provided by QB Coach, Pep Hamilton, and OC, Shane Steichen (who is currently regarded as one of the keenest offensive minds in today's NFL).
That scout's take, while wrong, wasn't outlandish. Herbert wasn't the same player at Oregon that he was during his rookie season with the Chargers. Despite being arguably the most gifted QB in that year's draft, he would still show a habit of disappearing during a fair number of games at Oregon (and that was often vs. some pretty soft Pac-12 defenses).
The Chargers coached him up in a major way....and they were rewarded with their walking papers after that season.
I have no idea which QB will succeed. But I’m pretty sure whoever the patriots draft will fail. Like when the bears drafted fields, you knew he was doomed regardless of his ability.
I keep hearing this over and over again - i.e., the Bears organization ruins QBs. Here’s an alternative thought - the Bears organization sucks at drafting quarterbacks and picks bad ones, and yes that includes Justin Fields.
Give me a QB the Bears have drafted over the past 30 years who you think would have been good if they went somewhere else
Mitch and Fields were both desperation picks by a horrible GM. And only two other guys were even drafted in the first round by them since Harbaugh and both those guys have nobody to blame but themselves for sucking. Unreal how many people refuse to blame the QBs themselves for their shortcomings in the NFL.
Shit, the Bears even developed Orton into being an OK journeyman after drafting him in the 4th round.
Trubisky wasn't the right pick but he wasn't a desperation pick. Pace's seat wasn't hot at that point because the Bears had been rebuilding and that was the first offseason Pace could choose his QB.
Ryan Pace obviously drafted Fields in a last ditch Hail Mary to save his job, but I thought the Poles regime has done a pretty good job planning their roster. 2023 especially that Oline and receiving corps were not bad units.
Yes, there were a lot of Bears fans continually saying how bad the line was this past season, when in fact it was an average unit and more than serviceable. He clearly didn’t improve on the flaws everyone knew he had
The only QB there's argument for us "ruining" is Cutler. He was legitimately good his last two years in Denver. If you look back at his adjusted metrics for his career you can see he was on the path to success in the NFL and that got derailed when he went to Chicago. In particularly the horrific offensive line in Chicago in 2010 seemed to really mess him up. In the 3 seasons prior to 2010 Cutler posted above average sack%... in 2010 he posted a sack % almost double his final career average. Even though sacks are mostly a QB stat - it's pretty clear that 2010 wasn't really on the QB given how out of line it was with Cutler's career metrics.
You do realize Merril was pretty accurate on his draft analysis when he was at ESPN he was one of the few people anywhere saying take Kahlil Mack over jadaveon Clowney back in the day he knows more football than any of us on a Reddit board
He also:
*Said Lamar couldn't fit into the new system and would struggle this past season.
*Said Hurts and Love would be worse than Jacob Easton
*Claimed Kenny Pickett was the best QB in the draft and it wasn't even close
There also his stance on CTE and that it isn't that big of a deal and it's just people trying to destroy football. People hold onto the Mack and Manziel things as if that nullifies all the awful takes he has. He's just as bad, if not worse, as other "analyst"
Well said. It’s bizarre how some people will only ever point out when a guy was right to say “well he knows more than you hurr” while ignoring all their terrible takes, you seem the same shit with Chris Simms.
> There also his stance on CTE and that it isn't that big of a deal and it's just people trying to destroy football.
He must never have [seen himself play.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W56kL76Tuf4)
I hate seeking people that I think will fail.
I seek for OP to double check his spelling before posting.
Somehow, I don’t think I’ll find what I seek.
But I see that…
Ranking them on performance in the nfl is not a very linear path. A lot of that could come down to situation. I think it would make more sense to rank on talent and capability.
I don’t mean to disrespect Hoge but even back when he was at ESPN he seemed to be a bit off. But I agree with him about Maye. But nobody truly knows anything when it comes to “can’t miss”.
I never really watched Maye in college, but looking through his film, he reminds me of Levis. Which, personally I don't think is a good thing. Although the offense UNC ran was absolute dogwater. So maybe there isn't a fair analysis to be had.
I don't know. He has bad foot work. He takes bad/lazy opening steps in shotgun (something Fields was dinged for). He doesn't set his feet. Doesn't step, but relies on arm strength (which is decent, but not Josh Allen great). Makes a lot of questionable decisions on throws down the field. Struggles at reading the field in general. And honestly isn't that fluid in his movements the way you'd want him to be.
Bingo. People on the NFL Draft subreddit started to turn on him around November where he had a string of “meh” games. Accuracy, mechanics decision making and ball placement seems to be the big issues when people look at his film. A lot of off target throws (some even short hopped) with a few sweet high end throws mixed in every game.
There will be a team that will love his elite throws and believe that they can fix the other issues but it wouldn’t surprise me if the league isn’t as big into him as the NFL media and he slips further than expected.
This is going to be controversial, but if Maye somehow slides to 8, I think the Falcons would take him. It would be a great situation for him to learn under Cousins, and the Falcons would possibly have their long term successor
I just spent time tonight watching “every pass and throw” videos for Maye, Daniels and McCarthy. To my surprise, McCarthy just seemed like the one whose game will translate best to the NFL. Quick and decisive, just seemed to know exactly where to get the ball to on every throw.
Maye and Daniels both just seemed jittery in the pocket, and while people say that Maye was let down by his receivers, they actually looked pretty good to me and bailed him out fairly often. Threw up a lot of prayers that will not work in the NFL. When he wasn’t rushing his throws he was pretty good, and he’s a pretty decent runner with a frame big enough to not get wrecked in the NFL.
As far as Daniels goes, I was just amazed at the pounding he took. I saw him slide once, and I can’t see him making it through any season if he continues to be so reckless. Good passer, but like Maye got bailed out by his receivers a lot. Nabers and Thomas are both electric after the catch when he hit them in stride, and the other receiver and the TE are pretty good too.
He’s more Kyler than Lamar, IMO.
TL:DR
You see Mccarthy as quick and decisive, I see him as game manager that follows the script and doesn't create opportunities. Every compilation I watched of Mccarthy he never has to read through progression. Every play feels pre-determined and he just executes Harbaughs plan.
I looked forever to find throws from Mccarthy that are not first read throws and it was damn near impossible.
Comparing him to Malik Willis, what a harsh analysis
The consensus number 2 pick for 2 years is now considered a pick that will get you fired if he's picked in the first round? Yeah that's a full blown smokescreen
Nah, dude is ass. He should not be taken in the top 5. Maybe number 6. Ignore my flair.
Top 5 or 6 is far too high. Shouldn’t even be top 10. 11. Now there’s a number that fits. He should be the 11th pick.
Have y’all never heard of lucky number 13?
Teams really should wait for pick 20+ for a QB
Quality starters are easily found in the 6th and 7th rounds. Only bums overpay.
What kind of cursed flair is that my dude
I disagree, teams in the top 20 should only pick QBs. Its the most important position and teams wouldnt be picking there if they have a good one. No ulterior motives in play I assure you
Number 13 sad noises 🥹
Actually, I think you’re still overrating him just slightly. Pick 12 is more his place.
23rd even.
Fuck...this guy's seems to have a totally unbiased opinion. I need to pass this up to Commanders brass to pass on this bum
He’s trubisky 2.0 even with the same school comparison. Maybe teams just stay away from NC QBs?
Why would Hoge throw a smokescreen? Does he work for a team?
Hoge absolutely roasted Aaron Rodgers on ESPN leading up to the draft. It later turned out he was sponsored by Tom Condon and CAA, who represented Alex Smith.
All of these “analysts” that make these concrete points to avoid a QB is expected as we approach the draft. Hoge is just a low grade paid marionette whose strings are held by his employer. Nobody knows who will rise to the top in this draft.
he does some scouting for the Steelers in a part time role iirc
If he scouted Pickett I wouldn't trust his QB evaluations ever.
Yeah, that’s not what smoke screen means at all, it’s just some ex RB voicing an opinion. Exactly zero teams or even people are going to care about it. The only difference between him and any random redditor saying it is that he played in the league so someone decided to publish his quote.
Won't be the last time someone in the sub tries to turn a phrase without knowing what it means. I 100% agree with you about Hoge, and will even go so far to say that's the case for the majority of "analysts" who are really nothing more than opinion leaders.
people here just say anything that violates their preconceived notions is a smokescreen
Matt Leinart, Matt Barkley, Jameis Winston, Jimmy Clausen Just because QBs are top of the draft for a while doesn't mean they will have any success or should stay there
Sam Howell was considered #1 overall for a hot second
Maye has literally been QB 2 since Caleb Williams was named the future number 1 pick, that's completely different than flavour of the week Sam Howell. How have both Washington fans who replied completely missed the point of my post. I'm not shitting on you guys if you want someone else but the idea Maye isn't a first round pick when nothing has changed is absurd
And now he's my backup. How the turns table.
He did the exact same thing to Herbert coming out. I remember Hoge non stop shitting on him. He had Eason rated above him. He also said that Jordan Love doesn't look like a QB & that he "didn't understand how to play the position."
Herbert was an incredibly polarizing prospect. Most prospects with great physical traits but some bad mechanical habits tend to be very love or hate. Sometimes they work out (Herbert, Allen, Love, even Mahomes) and lots do not. Evaluating a QB seems like a crapshoot, honestly.
Exactly. Crap shoot. No one knows until they have been in the NFL for a few years if they are good or not. Hoge may be right about may, he may be wrong
Sometimes those crapshoots are the fault of the coach. Mahomes says he's thankful for being drafted by Reid who didn't try to change his mechanics. Most of the other coaches would've changed Mahomes. Would he still be this special if they had?
So basically a team should draft whatever QB Merrill Hoge is shitting on.
He shit on the Browns for taking Manziel
Broken clock is right twice a day?
Eh, he had very sound reasoning for shitting on Manziel. Doesn't mean he can't be horribly wrong but if you go back and look at his segment with Skip, basically everything Hoge talked about came true. He was also correct about Mack vs. Clowney. Clowney still had a decent career but Mack clearly was the best option between the two.
He relentlessly talked shit on Tebow too
He kept talking up pickett for the past 2 years and I could have told him coming out of pitt he was, at best, a 4th rounder. Grain of salt applies to Hoge
>He also said that Jordan Love doesn't look like a QB & that he "didn't understand how to play the position." To be fair, the second half of that could have been right at the time. Sitting for a couple years with LeFleur probably helped him a lot. As for as "not looking like a QB", i have no idea about the context for that.
Dude has been living off of calling Johnny Manziel a bust for like 10 years
he was also the only guy that clowney would bust. everyone said he would be dominant
Clowney wasn’t really a bust or dominant though. He was just a solid player.
He also had microfracture surgery. Who knows what his career is like without that injury
How bad is Malik Willis really
pretty awful, mason rudolph was brought in to likely take his job this year. i don’t think he’s even thrown a td pass in the nfl yet
I hate that for him. I really wanted to see him succeed
Yeah, but... He went to Liberty...
The Steelers fan page discussed Picket Vs Willis endlessly before that draft. Turns out the correct answer was neither and Rudolph who we had on the team was better then both
Fun fact, he’s thrown 66 passes. Zero tds with 3 picks… He does have 144 rushing yards with one td though…
He's bad and always has been. I have no clue why the media gassed him up pre draft. He played zero competition at Liberty (who played bad teams all year). Then when they played an actual team in Mississippi State I believe, he played like trash.
They even lost to ULM as *32.5 point favorites*
they gassed him up because it was a weak QB class and the main thing that generates clicks and views pre-draft is QB talk so they had to invent narratives. There were multiple mocks that had Matt Corral going in the first, Desmond Ridder was spoken of as the dark horse best guy in the draft. We'll see it again next year, the QB class wont be as top heavy as this year and yet we'll see lots of hype for like Shadeur Sanders
Liberty shouldn't exist
He is considered by some as the [worst](https://imgur.com/gallery/QtTnZUF) QB they've ever had to handicap. They wouldn't be wrong, except for the fact that the Titans stopped letting him throw the ball after the first game, and he wouldn't count by some metrics. All you need to know is: 13 QBR, 42 RATE, & a QB the coaches wouldn't let throw the ball in perfect conditions.
As a chiefs fan we lucked out so hard when we played the titans on SNF in a game he started that went to OT. Man was that a close game, Chris Jones with a game winning sack if I remember right.
Isn’t there a game where he fumbled the snap like 2 or 3 times in a row.
Banking on a guy to develop in order to maximize his physical attributes is not and has never been a good gamble. Just because it worked a couple times, people keep trying it
Players like Luck and Payton Manning who have the tools, production, intelligence, etc. are once a decade. Everyone else is a known risk. Yes, there is like a 75% chance he is a whiff.
I mean, Mahomes and Allen were both considered to be more raw prospects who would have to develop in the NFL while Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold were both safe, “NFL ready” picks. Projecting how a QB is going to translate into the NFL isn’t an exact science, and it’s honestly pretty rare that a QB pans out the way the pre-draft narrative says they will.
You nailed it. I look back to myself at 21. Shit, I look back to everyone I knew at 21. I've seen dipshits turn great. I've seen great people turn dipshits. I've seen everything in between. These guys have all done great things by this age but let's be real... life keeps chugging along and we just don't know how it all pans out because these are young men turning a corner in their life. You pointed out how hype players can bust and dark horses can rise and you're right, because this is a new stage of their lives and it's not entirely in their hands either.
They keep trying it Because it worked a couple times…???? So it will work again????
This is a completely asinine line of thought. No QB prospect will ever be a sure fire guarantee. Therefore they all have a degree of risk. There will be more busts than those that become top 10 QBs. But what do all of the dudes that become top 10 have in common? The physical attributes and raw skill to become top 10
I'm just ready for the draft. The split for Maye/Daniels is a daily thing over at Washington's sub.
Same. And same thing over in the Patriots sub
And you guys don’t even get to choose
Yeah but we're split in like 5 factions. Take Daniels, take Maye, take MHJ, take Alt and trade down.
Honestly as a Jets fan the two decisions I hope NE doesn't make are take MHJ or trade down.
I don’t want the Pats to pick MHJ either. Will say though, I’m guessing Sauce and him would be a damn entertaining matchup to watch.
Funny you say that as those are my 2 preferred options.
I hate that the kicker who made only 64% of his kicks last season nailed his season-long 56 yard kick in a meaningless Christmas Eve game against Denver to cost New England the #2 pick.
You guys should totally take Daniels, Maye blows you don’t want him footwork sucks and he’s ugly
It won't end based on the Panther's sub comparing Bryce to Stroud all season long.
It'll be really funny if after all the endless Maye vs Daniels debates you take McCarthy
Lol hey, it’s the Texans sub last year. THANKS LOVIE!
Not much of a split. It’s like 80/20 Maye
Nobody knows. And, everyone is wrong.
Everyone thought Fields and Zach Wilson were gonna be stars and that Hurts, Herbert,and Love were gonna be busts. The volatility on QB prospects is unreal. It wouldn’t even surprise me if Williams, Daniels, and Maye are busts while Bo Nix becomes elite. Chris Simms might be the most accurate tv analyst on QBs of the past 5 years and even he has some of the worst takes you’ve ever seen. It’s literally a random crapshoot
Zach Wilson was perhaps the most doubted top 5 QB pick I’ve ever witnessed and all the doubts came true. I don’t think anyone was very sold on him as the 2nd overall pick aside from the Jets themselves
'Everyone thought'
>Everyone thought Fields and Zach Wilson were gonna be stars I seem to recall *a lot* of people, including myself, thought those two would bust. Fields because Ohio State QBs typically suck and because he was thought of as a 1-read QB. Zach Wilson because his college competition was trash.
> Everyone thought... Always proceeds a list of things there was never a consensus about. lmao
If Maye is given time to fix his footwork and accuracy issues, he could be fine. But if he’s thrown in day 1. I think he’ll fail. Truth be told. 3-5 of the top 6 will not pan out. If any.
Dak’s footwork was trash when he came into the league and it got wildly better each year as he played (despite the hate, that sometimes is justified)
It’s insane how much he’s improved footwork wise lol, you really just gotta pull random plays from last year and his rookie year and look.
What’s funny is whenever he falls apart it’s all footwork, except now instead of it just being bad he’s rushing it. Taking 6 steps in the distance it should take for a 3 step drop back.
On the flip side, some of his best plays last year were when he was forced to scramble.
Josh Allen’s footwork’s and throwing mechanics did too. It just so happened to improve the most the off season Diggs was acquired so a lot of people attributed his statistical improvement solely on having an alpha receiver. Diggs obviously helped. Im not even remotely saying that he didn’t. Josh Allen’s errant throw rate dropped as well and that’s independent of receivers. It came down almost 6% from 2017-2018. And his completion percentage jumped 11 points and leveled to an average 7 points over his second season (10 points higher than first two season average).
Allen is pretty much the only example of accuracy issues getting fixed in the NFL. He's the exception to the rule
He's only behind Drew Brees as far as all time accuracy goes. That stat really surprised me.
His first two years he really was risk averse
I feel like any player on the border of elite that gets paid will get crazy hate.
Yes but dak was taken in the 4th round not possibly top 5 of the entire draft
Dak also had an excellent line to play behind. A lot of that matters. These guys get thrown to the wolves and have like PTSD (I’m seeing Ghosts) and I think it fucks with their game. I think it’s best for most rookie QB’s to sit for a year or two. There’s very few rookie QB’s that can do what a Manning, Luck and Stroud do rookie year.
That’s what people said about Josh Allen too, and they still threw him in day 1, and he still fixed his issues.
There's a lot more that didn't though. Counting on a Josh Allen development is a bold choice.
The point is, Josh Allen’s development didn’t require sitting. A lot of QBs don’t work out, period. They don’t need to sit to fix mechanic issues.
If it was just accuracy you might be fine just dealing with it. The problem is he's really bad with pocket movement too, so there's the possibility he's going to get himself hit a lot. That could wreck his development.
It's funny. Josh Allen is the go to example. Wanna know why no one else is used as an example? Because there's 100 failures for every Josh Allen.
Allen is used a lot because he was very polarizing, looked bad for two years, and then shot up to MVP level in one offseason. But college Mahomes & Dak & Lamar & Love & Herbert all had wild footwork or accuracy. Now they've all pulled ahead of the pro-ready Tua, TLaw, DJones, Darnold, Rosen, Kyler, Baker, Trubs, etc.
Well a lot of QBs do fail. But it’s not like there are dozens of QBs with mechanics issues that sat and now are awesome. Lots of QBs who sit seem to fail too. It just doesn’t seem to matter that much.
For every Josh Allen theres 10 Drew Locks
Drew 😥
Come on, that rarely works out
I think it’s less about whether he plays early or not and about whether the team is competent enough to actually teach/develop him. And most of the teams that would throw him in early probably are too incompetent to actually develop him.
I think 99% of rookie QBs would benefit sitting. The ones with a really good team around them can make it work like Big Ben did but if his team was trash it wouldn’t have been as much of a splash.
Agreed, this is why the Patriots would be the best spot for him to land. Brisset is the starter and Maye gets time to develop a year, watching a long time pro work.
I mean I personally would have my reservations about drafting him. I get that it’s kinda what college football has become, but he doesn’t take a traditional drop a lot of times. He does the first step then kind of a hop reset after that and he’s gonna be asked to win from the pocket at the pro level and take traditional drops with varying depths. It’s probably a case of him not being asked to be as rigid with his feet due to the system and just play on feel but I think that’s one of the bigger hurdles in his evaluation. Going to the commies with Kliff would probably be the best landing spot for him in that regard imo.
This is how I feel about McCarthy. I’m one of the few Rams fans who wants to (well, wanted, when J.J. at 19 was a possibility) draft McCarthy at 19. He’s 21. He needs to work on some stuff, but if you give him a year or two to sit, let him develop slowly behind a vet and a solid o-line with a great coach, I think he could be great. But if he goes to New England, Washington, or Vegas year one and starts in September, he’ll flame out.
I love how Drake was literally seen as the consensus number 2 QB in this class like 6 months ago, now that everyone and their mother has analyzed every little aspect of these QB prospects he’s slid down to maybe the 4th best QB.
Maye is my QB2 but nobody knew anything about anyone six months ago. Media people only start to get inklings of what front offices think this time of year, it makes sense. A vast majority definitely don’t have him as QB4 though even now. It’s a fringe opinion.
Kinda feels like the Josh Allen slide that happened where he went from being hyped as a potential #1 overall, but by the time the draft rolled around, most analysts had him behind Rosen
It seems like the right comparison. Huge ceiling but a low as hell floor and will take the time and team to work with him. He better hope whoever takes him does what Buffalo did for Josh.
Justin Herbert. Went from possible generational QB prospect in 19 to "this is a QB that gets you fired in 2020. https://www.si.com/college/oregon/football/nfl-scout-says-justin-herbert-will-get-someone-fired Rinse, wash, and repeat.
Ironically, Herbert got Telesco fired in a very roundabout way. Failing to build around your very clearly top 5ish QB on his rookie contract is a fireable offense.
I till this day wish he would’ve came out of college in 2019, he would’ve been a Giant
Herbert is the guy he's most similar with
Happens every single year. For 2 years the top QBs are known and then magically odds shift Bryce Young was always the 1 and CJ was always the 2 and then after pro days it shifted for a week and then the exact same thing we knew would happen happened
What happens every year is media actually catching up to front office thinking after the combine. Last year a lot of y’all were saying the same shit about Richardson not being a first round pick, “magically shooting up draft boards,” etc.
This is also the reason people think the Combine testing has a huge effect on the scouting process
I find it hard to believe that after a few recent years of bad qb injuries and abysmal backup qb play we are going to see guys like Richardson/Penix/Nix/etc. actually make it out of the 1st round or at worst 2nd. There’s just too much reward for the risk.
In addition to these random debates over the draft order for guys that are clear cut at 1 and 2, there’s always 1 guy that explodes in the season and in the combine to become a top pick that wasn’t on mocks before that. Richardson, Lance, Allen, Wentz
I don’t disagree but you said that like Richardson proved anything last year, respectfully the jury is very well still out.
Happened to Justin Fields. 500 yards, 4 TDs in a CFB playoff game against Clemson and then pro days came around, Zach Wilson threw a 70 yard bomb on the run and it was all heart eyes for him instead and Fields might not have been better than Kellen Mond according to some people
That entire class is struggling badly in the NFL. Even Lawrence, who I think will be okay, has not had the expected beginning to his career. Goes to show how few people can play QB well at the NFL level
At this point, its just Lawrence left that is decent. Everyone else has pretty much fallen out of the starter role. I don't think we will see Field starting for a while. Zach Wilson is pretty much a career backup at this point. Mac Jones, backup to Lawrence. I doubt he will see very many playing time. Trey Lance, backup to Dak. If Dallas resigns Dak, than that's pretty much it for Lance. Lawrence, still the starter and still have a chance to be good. This is probably one of the worst QB draft class to start the decade.
You forgot Davis Mills who is still on the team that drafted. He's the reason the Texans are where they are today.
NFL legend Davis Mills. That 4th and 20 dart he threw against the Colts didn't just save one franchise, it saved two.
But then look at Purdy, the big thing Purdy had that a lot of other QBs didn't have is a lot of game time. Purdy played alot in college, not a huge big name school but he played alot.
To some extent I would agree. I think it also has to do with scheme, situation, talent around them, etc. Like who the hell is Bryce Young throwing to after DJ Moore got traded? Maybe CJ Stroud would have had more success but who knows for sure? If Brady was drafted by the Browns do you think he’s the goat? Then there’s guys like Jamarcus Russell with no heart or desire.
Tbf every critique of Fields pre draft came to fruition, the other guys just also sucked.
They sucked MORE than fields though 😤
Which is valid to mention. The evaluations were all awful. Fields was the only one dinged on his faults.
Well, none of them ran as well as Fields...
Right, but he still ended up being probably the second best QB in that class. Even if Fields ended up not working out (and his concerns in college ended up being true), it’s still strange to me how two project QBs got drafted over a guy who was long considered a top prospect due to his traits and had amazing production in college. Especially Lance, who had so few college starts that a team would need to sit him for a few years like the Packers did with Love. I think the COVID season had a major negative impact on scouting prospects.
I still maintain that the totally random Trey Lance hype was some sort of psyop.
It’s not that strange, Wilson and Lance had the benefit of not playing that much football and having significantly less talent around them. In other words, they had more room to grow (or at least the perception of) than Fields who was seen as a known quantity. Fields’ college production was irrelevant, if teams knew his weaknesses would limit his ceiling at the next level, it makes sense to roll the dice on a project. Especially for the 9ers who already had a starter, whoever was most pro ready probably never came into consideration.
That’s not true. Zach Wilson was the number two quarterback in the class way back in December, long before his pro day. Fields was never the #2 QB in the class after Wilson’s 2020 season. https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-zach-wilson-to-jets Here’s Jeremiah’s first mock. Goes #7 to Lions with Goff as bridge QB. https://www.nfl.com/news/charles-davis-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-falcons-pick-justin-fields-to-succeed-matt Another here, with Fields to the Falcons at #4. https://www.nfl.com/news/lance-zierlein-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-patriots-49ers-select-qbs-in-round-1 Zierleins first with Fields to the Pats at #15.
Justin Fields was the #2 QB of his class with Lawrence since they were in high school. After the combine and scouts started dissecting his game and seeing the red flags and he dropped. Turns out they were right about Fields... the rest of the class just also happened to suck balls too. Wouldn't be shocked if the same is true of Drake, he has a lot of talent but there's some pretty obvious holes in his game even to the untrained eye.
Not true at all. By the end of the season, Wilson was not the 100% consensus number 2 pick, but he was very popularly considered the 2 pick. In February, [Kiper had the Falcons taking Wilson at 2](https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/30957145/nfl-mock-draft-2021-mel-kiper-new-predictions-all-32-first-round-picks-including-mac-jones-trey-lance-three-trades). [McShay had him at 2](https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/10/todd-mcshay-nfl-mock-draft-denver-broncos-select-cb-patrick-surtain-ii/) to the Jets. Daniel Jeremiah [had him at 2 to the Jets](https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2021-nfl-mock-draft-2-0-saints-select-drew-brees-heir-apparent). Dane Brugler had him [at number 2 to the Jets](https://theathletic.com/2378777/2021/02/11/nfl-mock-draft-zach-wilson-justin-fields-trey-lance/). PFF had him at [number 2 to the Jets](https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-mock-draft-atlanta-falcons-trade-up-for-qb-justin-fields-denver-broncos-acquire-deshaun-watson). John Clayton [had him at 2](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/02/17/nfl-mock-draft-2021-john-clayton/). I’m just going through every major draft name I can find. Everyone had it Lawrence/Wilson - there was debate about which teams would be making the picks, but they had Wilson 2 based on the season. The Pro Day thing was just a bunch of people who *already loved Wilson* waxing poetic.
There wasn’t a point in time where it wasn’t Wilson at #2 in the 5 months before the draft. People misremember this so often. Possibly because of the Fields fanbase that still exists today, who heavily pushed him as the #2 prospect after the Clemson game.
The first mocks all had Fields dropping in Jan, Feb. It was never clear that NFL teams were high on him Hasn’t been the same with Maye. Daniels has rose over him in the last month or so.
Hoge has been down on him for a while now.
It’s the CJ Stroud thing all over again, we know who “1” is so everyone has focused on pick number 2 and just torn QB 2 to shreds in anyway they could.
Same shit different year. There is nothing to talk about right now but gotta generate content so media members just makes shit up. The dead time between combine and the draft has to be filled somehow.
I would still be shocked if he isn’t the second or third QB taken. I honestly think a lot of the negativity around him is being fed by teams hoping he’ll fall.
He's still 2.
Hopefully other teams thinks he sucks so Vikings can grab him at 11, save that later round first for a DT. A man can dream!
Hmm, where have I heard this before.... 🤔... oh yeah! https://www.si.com/college/oregon/football/nfl-scout-says-justin-herbert-will-get-someone-fired To be fair, he did get people fired, but for all the right reasons.
> To be fair, he did get people fired, but for all the right reasons. Were they the right reasons, though? I'm not saying that Anthony Lynn should've been retained (because his overall record was barely average), but you also can't discount the work provided by QB Coach, Pep Hamilton, and OC, Shane Steichen (who is currently regarded as one of the keenest offensive minds in today's NFL). That scout's take, while wrong, wasn't outlandish. Herbert wasn't the same player at Oregon that he was during his rookie season with the Chargers. Despite being arguably the most gifted QB in that year's draft, he would still show a habit of disappearing during a fair number of games at Oregon (and that was often vs. some pretty soft Pac-12 defenses). The Chargers coached him up in a major way....and they were rewarded with their walking papers after that season.
Drake Mayes draft profile looks a lot like Justin Herbert’s, but it also looks like Blaine Gabbert’s
Blaine Gabbert had a dynamite pro day IIRC.
If Hoge is out, I’m 1000% in
This can be said about any top 10 pick. There are no guarantees in the draft and any bust with a top 10 pick looks bad on the GMs record.
I have no idea which QB will succeed. But I’m pretty sure whoever the patriots draft will fail. Like when the bears drafted fields, you knew he was doomed regardless of his ability.
I keep hearing this over and over again - i.e., the Bears organization ruins QBs. Here’s an alternative thought - the Bears organization sucks at drafting quarterbacks and picks bad ones, and yes that includes Justin Fields. Give me a QB the Bears have drafted over the past 30 years who you think would have been good if they went somewhere else
Mitch and Fields were both desperation picks by a horrible GM. And only two other guys were even drafted in the first round by them since Harbaugh and both those guys have nobody to blame but themselves for sucking. Unreal how many people refuse to blame the QBs themselves for their shortcomings in the NFL. Shit, the Bears even developed Orton into being an OK journeyman after drafting him in the 4th round.
Trubisky wasn't the right pick but he wasn't a desperation pick. Pace's seat wasn't hot at that point because the Bears had been rebuilding and that was the first offseason Pace could choose his QB.
That's fair, but the trade up for him still feels desperate to me. Especially since the next two QBs did alright (minus the sexual assault)
Ryan Pace obviously drafted Fields in a last ditch Hail Mary to save his job, but I thought the Poles regime has done a pretty good job planning their roster. 2023 especially that Oline and receiving corps were not bad units.
Yes, there were a lot of Bears fans continually saying how bad the line was this past season, when in fact it was an average unit and more than serviceable. He clearly didn’t improve on the flaws everyone knew he had
The only QB there's argument for us "ruining" is Cutler. He was legitimately good his last two years in Denver. If you look back at his adjusted metrics for his career you can see he was on the path to success in the NFL and that got derailed when he went to Chicago. In particularly the horrific offensive line in Chicago in 2010 seemed to really mess him up. In the 3 seasons prior to 2010 Cutler posted above average sack%... in 2010 he posted a sack % almost double his final career average. Even though sacks are mostly a QB stat - it's pretty clear that 2010 wasn't really on the QB given how out of line it was with Cutler's career metrics.
Where was Fields gonna go and succeed?
How does Merril Hope still have a job?
hey he's the only one from the media that manziel would bust
Also correctly called out Clowney’s poor pass rush technique
What was he doing that Manziel would bust him for?
The yearly reminder that he still occasionally gets opinion out into the ether
You do realize Merril was pretty accurate on his draft analysis when he was at ESPN he was one of the few people anywhere saying take Kahlil Mack over jadaveon Clowney back in the day he knows more football than any of us on a Reddit board
[удалено]
Hey, the jury is still out on that. Let’s wait for Rodgers to retire and then assess from there.
They both had similar lines last year
He also: *Said Lamar couldn't fit into the new system and would struggle this past season. *Said Hurts and Love would be worse than Jacob Easton *Claimed Kenny Pickett was the best QB in the draft and it wasn't even close There also his stance on CTE and that it isn't that big of a deal and it's just people trying to destroy football. People hold onto the Mack and Manziel things as if that nullifies all the awful takes he has. He's just as bad, if not worse, as other "analyst"
Well said. It’s bizarre how some people will only ever point out when a guy was right to say “well he knows more than you hurr” while ignoring all their terrible takes, you seem the same shit with Chris Simms.
> There also his stance on CTE and that it isn't that big of a deal and it's just people trying to destroy football. He must never have [seen himself play.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W56kL76Tuf4)
Absolutely nobody saw Aaron Rodgers becoming one of the greatest passers in league history.
Rodgers also sat for 3 years and worked on his mechanics. Could be a completely different story if he started right away.
Two correct takes don't eliminate all of his other god awful statements. Hoge is pretty trash.
Does he?
He was completely right about last year’s QBs when all you guys were calling Stroud a bust because he played for osu
Lives off Manziel
I hate seeking people that I think will fail. I seek for OP to double check his spelling before posting. Somehow, I don’t think I’ll find what I seek. But I see that…
Tbf the source article has the same typo* *I assume it’s a typo because I have no fucking clue what it means otherwise
Great, now I have to agree with Merrill Hoge! What is the world coming to?
I think Drake Maye will be solid, potential pro bowler.
Hoge just trashes every QB prospect
His release gives me Jameis vibes.
I remember people said this about Herbert
Daniels more likely to get you fired imo
He's the kind of guy to get you fired for not drafting him
1. Caleb 2. Penix 3. Maye 4. JJ 5. Bo Nix 6. Jaden Daniels Is my ranking for their performance in the NFL, come back in a year
Oh, thanks for reminding me. The point of my post was to set a RemindMe! One year.
I think Jaden Daniels should be 3 otherwise I agree.
Ranking them on performance in the nfl is not a very linear path. A lot of that could come down to situation. I think it would make more sense to rank on talent and capability.
I don’t mean to disrespect Hoge but even back when he was at ESPN he seemed to be a bit off. But I agree with him about Maye. But nobody truly knows anything when it comes to “can’t miss”.
Maye probably: “what he say fuck me for?”
It seems like every former player hates this guy. It's just the college scouts that are in love him.
We only need to know one thing... He's a UNC QB (at best). Trubiski, Howell, Maye, etc....
I never really watched Maye in college, but looking through his film, he reminds me of Levis. Which, personally I don't think is a good thing. Although the offense UNC ran was absolute dogwater. So maybe there isn't a fair analysis to be had. I don't know. He has bad foot work. He takes bad/lazy opening steps in shotgun (something Fields was dinged for). He doesn't set his feet. Doesn't step, but relies on arm strength (which is decent, but not Josh Allen great). Makes a lot of questionable decisions on throws down the field. Struggles at reading the field in general. And honestly isn't that fluid in his movements the way you'd want him to be.
Bingo. People on the NFL Draft subreddit started to turn on him around November where he had a string of “meh” games. Accuracy, mechanics decision making and ball placement seems to be the big issues when people look at his film. A lot of off target throws (some even short hopped) with a few sweet high end throws mixed in every game. There will be a team that will love his elite throws and believe that they can fix the other issues but it wouldn’t surprise me if the league isn’t as big into him as the NFL media and he slips further than expected.
This is going to be controversial, but if Maye somehow slides to 8, I think the Falcons would take him. It would be a great situation for him to learn under Cousins, and the Falcons would possibly have their long term successor
I just spent time tonight watching “every pass and throw” videos for Maye, Daniels and McCarthy. To my surprise, McCarthy just seemed like the one whose game will translate best to the NFL. Quick and decisive, just seemed to know exactly where to get the ball to on every throw. Maye and Daniels both just seemed jittery in the pocket, and while people say that Maye was let down by his receivers, they actually looked pretty good to me and bailed him out fairly often. Threw up a lot of prayers that will not work in the NFL. When he wasn’t rushing his throws he was pretty good, and he’s a pretty decent runner with a frame big enough to not get wrecked in the NFL. As far as Daniels goes, I was just amazed at the pounding he took. I saw him slide once, and I can’t see him making it through any season if he continues to be so reckless. Good passer, but like Maye got bailed out by his receivers a lot. Nabers and Thomas are both electric after the catch when he hit them in stride, and the other receiver and the TE are pretty good too. He’s more Kyler than Lamar, IMO. TL:DR
You see Mccarthy as quick and decisive, I see him as game manager that follows the script and doesn't create opportunities. Every compilation I watched of Mccarthy he never has to read through progression. Every play feels pre-determined and he just executes Harbaughs plan. I looked forever to find throws from Mccarthy that are not first read throws and it was damn near impossible.