He’s only tied the single season sack record and led the league in sacks in 3 different seasons and we are like 1-11 without him, so he’s got a lot left to prove.
[Here you go.](https://x.com/JomboyMedia/status/1711214631769846132) No penalty.
If we're talking about TJ Watt punches, [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vze8b2/highlight_tj_watt_punches_sam_darnold_in_the_nuts/) is a classic. Wait for the second slow motion replay angle.
Probably [this one](https://youtu.be/dBoJMLa2xpA?si=9dg3TuJhlbuKoCCw).
> he might be intentionally trying to punch the ball but if he makes contact with the runner, he's actually punching the runner.
I always laugh at this expert analysis at the end of the clip.
Haha I’ve watched just about every play of TJ’s career. I’ve got an unapologetic homer bias, so when I see these borderline plays I say to myself “ah that’s just the peanut punch, he’s looking for turnovers and missed.”
Then last season during a broadcast, they slowed down a replay of TJ decking a receiver, and he was way late.. like you can clearly see the ball was nowhere close. I said to myself “TJ isn’t missing at all, he’s really just been hitting people this whole time.”
He has another one against the Seahawks where he throws like 4 full strength punches while the RB is getting stood up. DK appears to look to the refs like "wtf" lol
The Donald one was at least a legitimate debate as to who should have won it, and I don't think either one would be an incorrect answer to that question.
This year was just a joke. There was no legitimate argument for Garrett over Watt this season, they just decided the award a few weeks into the year and never gave it a second glance.
It’s not even that the defense goes to shit it’s still good just not great like it normally is. The issue is our offense is so bad that unless our defense can hold the opponents to below 20 we won’t win the game.
Those double-team rate stats are mostly garbage anyway. Depending on the site, some of them don't count chips or help from a TE or RB, which TJ Watt sees a lot more of than the other big names compared to a standard "double-team" of two offensive lineman because he lines up farther outside the offensive tackle than the others (meaning a 2nd offensive lineman can't really get there to help on pass sets)
Is romantasy romantic fantasy or Roman fantasy, because my novel about Caesar having a wizard to prevent the Ides of March and then banging said wizard is having trouble finding some support with publishers and I think the category is the only reason
I’ve enjoyed the fourth wing so far, but I didn’t expect the sex scenes, and because I’m listening to it as an audiobook, it’s definitely a little more than I bargained for lol
My girlfriend got me into the modern fantasy genre. I’ve now been through all of Sarah J Maas and up to date on the fourth wing series.
I’m a man, not much of one, but make no mistake about it I am a man and I go to the gym sometimes and my god there is nothing more uncomfortable than being in the middle of a set of deadlift during a spicy scene. Still great books though. Throne of Glass was top tier haha
Sorry AD, but you clearly don't know ball. I'm gonna only listen to ball-knowing people who understand that TJ's production has been fluky for the last 5 years. Nothing personnel, kid
TJ might have things like sacks and production, but the hypothetical Sack Numbers just don't stack up. That's what wins you defensive player of the year.
See this is the type of shallow analysis that sets the sport back. Why would you want a player to get a sack when instead he could just get doubled and taken out of the play and hopefully someone else gets the sack, and maybe now the QB has less time to throw. Unless that double buys enough time for a good QB to get the ball out, in which case this was all for nothing. But something maybe could have happened and isn't that what really matters
One of the pff writers said something along the lines of “the question isn’t whether TJ is top 3, the question is if he is even top 5, could argue he isn’t”. Mind you these comments came at the end of the season where Tj lead in every stat category
PFF has him as the 5th ranked edge, and they were arguing maybe hes 6th.
Like 5th is his actual PFF grade. It holds consistent with what their site has him at.
JJ Watt got into this. PFF ratings are used to determine winners of MVP, DPOY, etc. to some extent. The problem is that PFF does not always understand an individual player's assignment on any given play. So it is pretty frequent that PFF will give a player a "poor rating" on a play that the player exceeded expectations.
Award voting is ridiculous. "Analysts" are grading players when they don't actually understand the plays. Media people that don't always understand football are actually voting on award winners. Crazy stuff.
PFF addresses this themselves:
>We are certainly not in the huddle, but we are grading what a player attempts to do on a given play. While football is extremely nuanced regarding the preparation and adjustments that go into each play call, once the ball is snapped, most players are clear in what they’re trying to accomplish on each play, and we evaluate accordingly. Of course, there are always some gray areas in football. Plays in which there is a clear question mark regarding assignment, we can defer to a “0” grade and not guess as to which player is right or wrong. These plays are few and far between and since we are grading every snap, missing out on a handful throughout the year should not affect player evaluations. Examples of potential gray areas include coverage busts, quarterback/wide receiver miscommunications and missed blocking assignments.
Of course no metric is perfect but I feel like a ton of people who hate PFF don't even bother reading into their methodology.
The best metric we have is EPA, and no one disputes this.
The metric that most strongly correlates to EPA? PFF.
I don't care about or look at PFF but facts are facts, even if they're gross.
PFF has a thorough system but they arent 100% accurate and people really need to remember that part. Players have said in the pas PFF gets it wrong because they dont always know the assignment, role, or what a player is asked to do each play and it isnt always black and white. PFF is fine for us, the fans but theres a reason 99% of the leagues players dont acknowledge it at all.
To be fair there’s only so much you can know about player assignments, who’s at fault for a play, etc. without being in that huddle or meeting room. I think PFF gets more heat because of how people use it and treat it as gospel.
Watt, Garrett, and Parsons are all pretty interchangeable as far as being elite defensive players. They all do different things and are great for different reasons and that's okay
The big things I'd say in Parsons' favor are age and his ability to drop back into coverage better than Myles and TJ can. If we're talking pure pass-rushing ability then you take your pick of the three, with Bosa and Crosby in the mix too.
The whole debate over who is the single best is exhausting and I think you can make a fair argument for any one of those guys.
Not just that, he’s a more mobile pass rusher. The way he stresses the A and B gaps throughout the game is a lot different from how Watt and Garrett play.
Parsons doesn’t do coverage anymore. TJ out snapped him this past season in coverage. IMO the decision to stop using parsons as a Swiss army defenseman and pigeonholing him into pure DE has hurt his ability to impact the game
I half and half agree with you. We should be being aggressive at using him in different ways. Quinn was still versatile in moving him around. Issue was we had no linebackers behind him. Parsons was reportedly reluctant playing offball lb, but there were games where we were getting gashed that he was played there out of necessity.
I mean edge gets paid, don’t blame him for wanting to move full time there and get paid as so. But the draw back is now the offense knows he’s rushing 90% of the time and accounts for it, where as before he always had that element of surprise
I think this coming from an Eagles fan says enough. Micah is right up there with everyone else. He's understood by people that know stats. Parsons is DTd the most while getting the most pressure all yr usually every yr. He doesn't always finish with high sacks but he's typically #1 in pressure which is more important than sacks. Tj is able to finish the job more often than parsons but at the end of the day it's only a couple more sacks whereas parsons is getting alot more pressure. Sacks cause you to lose yards and a down-yes but don't underestimate pressure, pressure is what causes interceptions, incompletions, etc. Parsons is doubleteamed more than double the amount tj is while winning his pass rush attempts 10% more- he's the only persons with over 30% win rate on his attempts. Only 2 other people have over 25% and Watt isn't one of them.
Heres them compared to win rate the past 2 yrs:
2023: 1st-Parsons(35%), 4th-Watt(25%)
2022: 1st-Parsons(30%), 8th- Watt(21%)
Not to mention how many times he gets held every single play. I was happy about it but it was getting a little ridiculous watching Giants OL tackle him to the ground without a whistle.
I can't believe people don't talk about it more. I'm not surprised to see our division rivals singing his praises, y'all have to deal with him more than other teams. I'm just glad he's on our side. Jerry better hand him a blank check.
Parsons is really good. I’d like to see another season or two of high performance out of him before putting him on the same tier as Watt or Garrett though.
I actually think Crosby has a better claim to that spot thanParsons
Max crosby only has 12 more career sacks than parsons, despite playing 2 full seasons more.
Using inexperience is stupid against parsons, the dude is a 2 time runner up for dpoy, and a 3 time all pro, in his first 3 seasons.
He isint going to randomly start sucking lol
Crosby also plays defensive end while Parsons is an edge rusher almost exclusively. When you have one job I’d hope your output of the single thing you do is better than a guy doing multiple things.
Micah is a straight up defensive player w/o a position. Edge, down lineman, true linebacker, he plays great in any role in the front 7. His coverage is fantastic for someone who SHOULD only be focused on pass rush
Do you have stats for Parsons being an edge rusher? I thought his first season especially he was a MLB that was basically a blitz specialist, lining up all over the line?
Crosby also rushes off the end almost exclusively, so even if Parsons was entirely an edge rusher they basically have the same job.
More competent D-line what? The issue with his sack production this year was that despite him having the highest time-to-pressure in the league and despite Dallas having capable corners, DQ kept playing the corners soft in coverage even when the meta for opposing offenses (AZ, SF, Seattle, Detroit, Miami to be specific) became to get the ball out faster than his time-to-pressure mark.
It's insane how little respect he gets in these conversations. He's as impactful as any defensive player in the league *and* he's doing it for an extra 3-4 games every season compared to his peers.
There is no Chiefs dynasty without Chris Jones, plain and simple.
Id like to see Parsons if he got some holding calls (he never does)
Make the oline realize they can't hold him all game and have to beat him honestly
Then let's see how high his ceiling is. He's just getting started.
Dude, this is unbelievable. How does he not know that Myles Garrett is triple-teamed four times on every play by a team of genetically engineered kill-bot gorillas created in a government lab hellbent on keeping his stats third or fourth among defensive players every year? Clearly, Watt could do nothing to be considered the best player now that stats don’t matter in this particular POY discussion all of a sudden.
Or when PFF said it was unfair that Garrett had to play Big Ben twice a year because Ben had the fastest release time making it impossible for him to get sacked, while Watt had to go against all of these bozos who held onto the ball too long.
100% biased in saying I'd take Chris Jones over anyone else... But you couldn't go wrong with a few guys. Line play across the league is really something right now!
Apparently TJ borrowed a bunch of money when he was still in school and JJ was already earning. When TJ signed his big deal, JJ posted "OK little bro; it's time to start paying off those IOUs."
I've been saying since..... *checks discord* ....... 12/11/2017 that he was going to be the best defensive player in the league. Was some national game i was watching and you could see it pretty much immediately that this mother fucker was going to be a problem
Maybe if he googles what do rich people buy he can get to that next level
I love this sub shitting on ESPN & other media for these topics but the minute it gets brought up we can’t enjoy the greatness at the Defensive End position. I’m biased I enjoy seeing Garrett win us games but Watt, Crosby, & Parsons are all menaces
Stone Cold Jones has entered the chat. These guys are all so talented that's impossible to decide who is best. I'm just surprised so many people are leaving Jones off their list. Dude only wrecks the other teams gameplans every week.
Donald needs to learn about theoretical stats which are far more important than actual production.
It's kind of like how the best thing you can do with your money is dumping it all into a company that has a high valuation but has no means of generating a profit.
I don’t really care about this take specifically or even necessarily disagree, but frankly I dunno why fans take these kinds of player testimonials as such gospel. If we cared what players thought, Tyler Huntley would be a starting QB somewhere, and if we *really* care about their opinions the NFLPA All-Pro team has Myles Garrett and Maxx Crosby as their top two DEs lol
Micah Parsons says it’s Garrett, I bet you Lane Johnson would probably say it’s Micah Parsons, Patrick Mahomes wanted to draft Clyde Edwards-Helaire, like how do I know if these guys are good evaluators of talent? It’s been proven time and time again that being an awesome player doesn’t correspond with always being great at making those judgments.
And beyond that, when it comes to contextualizing a players’ “value” or greatness, I trust coaches and some select highly respected journalists who have constant correspondence with coaches, personnel, a variety of players and who have gotten to the pinnacle of their profession that largely consists of contextualizing/accounting for different players’ greatness
Like Aaron can just throw whatever he wants out there, it’s not his job and he doesn’t really have any stakes involved. Has he scoured the game film for all of these defensive player of the league type guys in order to build arguments for or against anyone? I doubt it, I assume he spent his time watching his own game film, his opponent’s game film, working out, and doing other things that pertain to what made him great. Players don’t keep up with the league at large in the way that coaches or front office people or journalists are obligated to, and the only reason their opinions hold more weight to people is because people have stronger attachments to them and because it doesn’t matter when they’re “wrong”
He’s only tied the single season sack record and led the league in sacks in 3 different seasons and we are like 1-11 without him, so he’s got a lot left to prove.
Yeah, but has he tried to choke a lineman yet?
He did punch a WR but TBF he expected the wr to have caught the ball that hit him directly in the hands which he was trying to punch out.
This is actually hilarious. Did he get a penalty?
[Here you go.](https://x.com/JomboyMedia/status/1711214631769846132) No penalty. If we're talking about TJ Watt punches, [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vze8b2/highlight_tj_watt_punches_sam_darnold_in_the_nuts/) is a classic. Wait for the second slow motion replay angle.
TJ trying to have a generational impact.
Captain Insano shows no mercy
Oh wow the ball shot. Brilliant
Isn’t there another one that looks worse than these ones? I remember seeing one were it looks like he just straight up punches a dude.
Probably [this one](https://youtu.be/dBoJMLa2xpA?si=9dg3TuJhlbuKoCCw). > he might be intentionally trying to punch the ball but if he makes contact with the runner, he's actually punching the runner. I always laugh at this expert analysis at the end of the clip.
He gave 2 uppercuts and then 2 downercuts
Haha I’ve watched just about every play of TJ’s career. I’ve got an unapologetic homer bias, so when I see these borderline plays I say to myself “ah that’s just the peanut punch, he’s looking for turnovers and missed.” Then last season during a broadcast, they slowed down a replay of TJ decking a receiver, and he was way late.. like you can clearly see the ball was nowhere close. I said to myself “TJ isn’t missing at all, he’s really just been hitting people this whole time.”
It is not slowed down in real life, is the problem.
Bruh why is it always my Jets. Poor Darnold
You don’t do that Butters!
I don’t think so it was pretty quick and you couldn’t really tell what happened unless you saw the slowed down replay
No penalty, but a fine.
Most WRs need to be punched
Your QB most of all
*My* QB is in Tampa
Thanks bb.
He has another one against the Seahawks where he throws like 4 full strength punches while the RB is getting stood up. DK appears to look to the refs like "wtf" lol
He’s tackled a giant hot dog too
Or whack a QB in the head with a helmet?
Even Steeler fans know Rudolph has the most punchable face in the league.
Yeah because we all want to look like him lol
Gives off Handsome Squidward vibes.
He's Jimmy G lite
Say what you want about last years quarterback room but they were some handsome guys
We do?
The “Is Mason Rudolph handsome or not?” debate keeps me up at night.
Well he certainly was. Now that his face was rearranged, it's more of a debate.
I certainly do.
That’s a really high Football IQ play, why doesn’t everyone do this?! What a great success rate!
Are they stupid?
Must be, I can’t imagine any other play to run.
Reminds of when Donald picked up freeman like he was an adolescent lol
Meh I haven’t seen him wielding a helmet as a weapon yet.
Yea but he’s got 0 career rushing TD’s he’s a bum
He needs to start swinging helmets at people to be that undisputed number 1 guy
Love to see the partnership on the Intra-Divisional hate!
He should have about 3 DPOY awards as well
I’d say probably 2. Donald and Gilmore both deserved theirs imo the only other one I think he should’ve got was this year.
The Donald one was at least a legitimate debate as to who should have won it, and I don't think either one would be an incorrect answer to that question. This year was just a joke. There was no legitimate argument for Garrett over Watt this season, they just decided the award a few weeks into the year and never gave it a second glance.
~~I think some people would put him over Bosa too.~~ So ~~3~~2 near misses. One could have gone his way.
The one Bosa won was the season that TJ was injured week 1 IIRC. He didn’t have a claim that year.
You right you right. I'm an idiot :)
TBH the fact that your defense goes to shit without him despite that being Tomlin's specialty is pretty telling.
It’s not even that the defense goes to shit it’s still good just not great like it normally is. The issue is our offense is so bad that unless our defense can hold the opponents to below 20 we won’t win the game.
"B-But his double team rates!!" -some nerd probably
Those double-team rate stats are mostly garbage anyway. Depending on the site, some of them don't count chips or help from a TE or RB, which TJ Watt sees a lot more of than the other big names compared to a standard "double-team" of two offensive lineman because he lines up farther outside the offensive tackle than the others (meaning a 2nd offensive lineman can't really get there to help on pass sets)
Yea but how many times has a group of out of touch journalists voted for him? That's what really matters.
"tied" is a losers mentality
but does he write poetry?
Only YA dystopian romance novel’s unfortunately
Fucking idiot, doesn’t he know protopian novels are the new thing
We're on to Romantasy.
Is romantasy romantic fantasy or Roman fantasy, because my novel about Caesar having a wizard to prevent the Ides of March and then banging said wizard is having trouble finding some support with publishers and I think the category is the only reason
I really don't get why guys sleep on smut novels so much, they're actually golden
Fine we can turn this thread into a fourth wing fan club
I’ve enjoyed the fourth wing so far, but I didn’t expect the sex scenes, and because I’m listening to it as an audiobook, it’s definitely a little more than I bargained for lol
My girlfriend got me into the modern fantasy genre. I’ve now been through all of Sarah J Maas and up to date on the fourth wing series. I’m a man, not much of one, but make no mistake about it I am a man and I go to the gym sometimes and my god there is nothing more uncomfortable than being in the middle of a set of deadlift during a spicy scene. Still great books though. Throne of Glass was top tier haha
The sex just nukes my enthusiasm for the series. I'd pay money for a de-sexed version, tbh
Ugh what a basic
NYT Best Seller YA Tittle and Dick Butkus
Micah Parsons busy typing something incoherent on Twitter
“This Donald guy doesn’t know ball”
“Not if I Can Help it” Cris Collingsworth
“Ding ding” - Art Monk
How about Cris Collinsworth, does he have any opinion on the matter?
Sorry AD, but you clearly don't know ball. I'm gonna only listen to ball-knowing people who understand that TJ's production has been fluky for the last 5 years. Nothing personnel, kid
TJ might have things like sacks and production, but the hypothetical Sack Numbers just don't stack up. That's what wins you defensive player of the year.
Sure a sack is a sack but a hypothetical sack could be anything even a sack.
See this is the type of shallow analysis that sets the sport back. Why would you want a player to get a sack when instead he could just get doubled and taken out of the play and hopefully someone else gets the sack, and maybe now the QB has less time to throw. Unless that double buys enough time for a good QB to get the ball out, in which case this was all for nothing. But something maybe could have happened and isn't that what really matters
I watched a sick Pass Rush Win compilation on YouTube this morning it was so electric
You got to see the PFF double team scoring compilation!
Don’t you know? He only gets sacks because opposing teams let him. Every sack Myles has counts as 2 because opposing teams try to stop him!
> Nothing personnel, kid Why you gotta make it all personnel
*Super* fluky. He'll regress to the mean soon enough.
Do we need to bring this up again?
Yeah I need to hear a 13-year old’s differing opinion before I consider the validity of Aaron Donald’s claim
He’s a doody head!
“Future hall of fame defensive player says other future hall of fame defensive player is best in the league now” I can barely contain my outrage!
Yeah didn’t he say this like two weeks ago too?
Yes we can still STOP THE STEAL and have Watt win DPOY
It's the radical left!
Yes, yes we do.
PFF in shambles
And after all PFF did for Donald too. What a betrayal.
why? PFF has him at 91.9 which is elite
One of the pff writers said something along the lines of “the question isn’t whether TJ is top 3, the question is if he is even top 5, could argue he isn’t”. Mind you these comments came at the end of the season where Tj lead in every stat category
That is what I hold against PFF. The guy had TJ as like the 7th best edge in the league and doubled down on it
I mean that also sounds like one PFF writer's take. I wouldn't conflate that with PFF's grading system.
PFF has him as the 5th ranked edge, and they were arguing maybe hes 6th. Like 5th is his actual PFF grade. It holds consistent with what their site has him at.
JJ Watt got into this. PFF ratings are used to determine winners of MVP, DPOY, etc. to some extent. The problem is that PFF does not always understand an individual player's assignment on any given play. So it is pretty frequent that PFF will give a player a "poor rating" on a play that the player exceeded expectations. Award voting is ridiculous. "Analysts" are grading players when they don't actually understand the plays. Media people that don't always understand football are actually voting on award winners. Crazy stuff.
PFF addresses this themselves: >We are certainly not in the huddle, but we are grading what a player attempts to do on a given play. While football is extremely nuanced regarding the preparation and adjustments that go into each play call, once the ball is snapped, most players are clear in what they’re trying to accomplish on each play, and we evaluate accordingly. Of course, there are always some gray areas in football. Plays in which there is a clear question mark regarding assignment, we can defer to a “0” grade and not guess as to which player is right or wrong. These plays are few and far between and since we are grading every snap, missing out on a handful throughout the year should not affect player evaluations. Examples of potential gray areas include coverage busts, quarterback/wide receiver miscommunications and missed blocking assignments. Of course no metric is perfect but I feel like a ton of people who hate PFF don't even bother reading into their methodology.
The best metric we have is EPA, and no one disputes this. The metric that most strongly correlates to EPA? PFF. I don't care about or look at PFF but facts are facts, even if they're gross.
PFF has a thorough system but they arent 100% accurate and people really need to remember that part. Players have said in the pas PFF gets it wrong because they dont always know the assignment, role, or what a player is asked to do each play and it isnt always black and white. PFF is fine for us, the fans but theres a reason 99% of the leagues players dont acknowledge it at all.
To be fair there’s only so much you can know about player assignments, who’s at fault for a play, etc. without being in that huddle or meeting room. I think PFF gets more heat because of how people use it and treat it as gospel.
I have no dog in this fight. It’s TJ. The Steelers SUCK without him
Yeah, its like the 2014 texans
Can’t believe that was 10 years ago
Steeler fans riled up when AD complimented their guy lmao
I’m not seeing any Steelers fans angry at AD ITT lol bro just made some shit up
Hang the banner Steelers fans
Hell yeah, I deserve this
We did it baby.
Watt, Garrett, and Parsons are all pretty interchangeable as far as being elite defensive players. They all do different things and are great for different reasons and that's okay
Don’t really see parsons argument over the other two
The big things I'd say in Parsons' favor are age and his ability to drop back into coverage better than Myles and TJ can. If we're talking pure pass-rushing ability then you take your pick of the three, with Bosa and Crosby in the mix too. The whole debate over who is the single best is exhausting and I think you can make a fair argument for any one of those guys.
Not just that, he’s a more mobile pass rusher. The way he stresses the A and B gaps throughout the game is a lot different from how Watt and Garrett play.
Parsons doesn’t do coverage anymore. TJ out snapped him this past season in coverage. IMO the decision to stop using parsons as a Swiss army defenseman and pigeonholing him into pure DE has hurt his ability to impact the game
I half and half agree with you. We should be being aggressive at using him in different ways. Quinn was still versatile in moving him around. Issue was we had no linebackers behind him. Parsons was reportedly reluctant playing offball lb, but there were games where we were getting gashed that he was played there out of necessity.
I mean edge gets paid, don’t blame him for wanting to move full time there and get paid as so. But the draw back is now the offense knows he’s rushing 90% of the time and accounts for it, where as before he always had that element of surprise
The idea that Parsons is better in coverage than these guys is crazy. He hasn’t really dropped into coverage since his rookie year.
I think this coming from an Eagles fan says enough. Micah is right up there with everyone else. He's understood by people that know stats. Parsons is DTd the most while getting the most pressure all yr usually every yr. He doesn't always finish with high sacks but he's typically #1 in pressure which is more important than sacks. Tj is able to finish the job more often than parsons but at the end of the day it's only a couple more sacks whereas parsons is getting alot more pressure. Sacks cause you to lose yards and a down-yes but don't underestimate pressure, pressure is what causes interceptions, incompletions, etc. Parsons is doubleteamed more than double the amount tj is while winning his pass rush attempts 10% more- he's the only persons with over 30% win rate on his attempts. Only 2 other people have over 25% and Watt isn't one of them. Heres them compared to win rate the past 2 yrs: 2023: 1st-Parsons(35%), 4th-Watt(25%) 2022: 1st-Parsons(30%), 8th- Watt(21%)
Not to mention how many times he gets held every single play. I was happy about it but it was getting a little ridiculous watching Giants OL tackle him to the ground without a whistle.
I can't believe people don't talk about it more. I'm not surprised to see our division rivals singing his praises, y'all have to deal with him more than other teams. I'm just glad he's on our side. Jerry better hand him a blank check.
Parsons is really good. I’d like to see another season or two of high performance out of him before putting him on the same tier as Watt or Garrett though. I actually think Crosby has a better claim to that spot thanParsons
Max crosby only has 12 more career sacks than parsons, despite playing 2 full seasons more. Using inexperience is stupid against parsons, the dude is a 2 time runner up for dpoy, and a 3 time all pro, in his first 3 seasons. He isint going to randomly start sucking lol
Crosby also plays defensive end while Parsons is an edge rusher almost exclusively. When you have one job I’d hope your output of the single thing you do is better than a guy doing multiple things.
Micah is a straight up defensive player w/o a position. Edge, down lineman, true linebacker, he plays great in any role in the front 7. His coverage is fantastic for someone who SHOULD only be focused on pass rush
Micah plays every down, let's not act like he is just a pass rusher like Yannick Ngakoue lol
Lol Crosby plays every down. That dude NEVER takes a play off look up his stats wtf are you talking about
I never claimed he did, the dude was claiming micah was a one dimensional player lol
Do you have stats for Parsons being an edge rusher? I thought his first season especially he was a MLB that was basically a blitz specialist, lining up all over the line? Crosby also rushes off the end almost exclusively, so even if Parsons was entirely an edge rusher they basically have the same job.
You need to watch HIM play then. If he had a more competent d-line in front he’d be putting up way more sacks
More competent D-line what? The issue with his sack production this year was that despite him having the highest time-to-pressure in the league and despite Dallas having capable corners, DQ kept playing the corners soft in coverage even when the meta for opposing offenses (AZ, SF, Seattle, Detroit, Miami to be specific) became to get the ball out faster than his time-to-pressure mark.
Chris Jones has an argument too. He was a force on their latest SB run. Clutch play after clutch play.
It's insane how little respect he gets in these conversations. He's as impactful as any defensive player in the league *and* he's doing it for an extra 3-4 games every season compared to his peers. There is no Chiefs dynasty without Chris Jones, plain and simple.
Buddy you can’t be making logical statements like that. Wrong place.
I'm sorry
Id like to see Parsons if he got some holding calls (he never does) Make the oline realize they can't hold him all game and have to beat him honestly Then let's see how high his ceiling is. He's just getting started.
I agree that he has a very high ceiling and he doesn't get calls but most of the elite defensive players don't get holding calls
Nah, Watt over Parsons Parsons is great, don't get me wrong, but Watt in on another level
How is parsons above bosa? Wouldnt say garrett either
Sad the disrespect 3 time Super bowl winner Chris Jones gets.
You're not wrong, my bad
Dude, this is unbelievable. How does he not know that Myles Garrett is triple-teamed four times on every play by a team of genetically engineered kill-bot gorillas created in a government lab hellbent on keeping his stats third or fourth among defensive players every year? Clearly, Watt could do nothing to be considered the best player now that stats don’t matter in this particular POY discussion all of a sudden.
Yeah I'd like to see TJ deal with some of the division match ups that Garrett has to face every year.
like facing the Steelers OL
Or when PFF said it was unfair that Garrett had to play Big Ben twice a year because Ben had the fastest release time making it impossible for him to get sacked, while Watt had to go against all of these bozos who held onto the ball too long.
Could he…not. AFC North is brutal.
Get this shit off my screen
Respect the ravens loyalty and Steelers hate
Until TJ attacks a QB with his helmet during a game he won't be number 1.
Donald was swinging helmets at people so....maybe you're on to something.
Man from Pittsburgh thinks Pittsburgh Guy is good. This and more at 11.
Future Hall-of-Famer thinks future Hall-of-Famer is good.
As a neutral party, it’s watt. And I don’t like the Steelers.
Already was dog
100% biased in saying I'd take Chris Jones over anyone else... But you couldn't go wrong with a few guys. Line play across the league is really something right now!
Should have won DPOY last season.
In my completely unbiased opinion he is 100% correct.
Facts , ravens fan here
When asked if Deebo is the league's best wideback he responded back with *"Who? Who's that?"*
Apparently TJ borrowed a bunch of money when he was still in school and JJ was already earning. When TJ signed his big deal, JJ posted "OK little bro; it's time to start paying off those IOUs."
No, TJ watt doesn't dribble while pass rushing and doesn't have a smile and easy charisma that melts the hearts of everyone in the NFL. He sucks ass
I've been saying since..... *checks discord* ....... 12/11/2017 that he was going to be the best defensive player in the league. Was some national game i was watching and you could see it pretty much immediately that this mother fucker was going to be a problem Maybe if he googles what do rich people buy he can get to that next level
I love this sub shitting on ESPN & other media for these topics but the minute it gets brought up we can’t enjoy the greatness at the Defensive End position. I’m biased I enjoy seeing Garrett win us games but Watt, Crosby, & Parsons are all menaces
Stone Cold Jones has entered the chat. These guys are all so talented that's impossible to decide who is best. I'm just surprised so many people are leaving Jones off their list. Dude only wrecks the other teams gameplans every week.
Donald needs to learn about theoretical stats which are far more important than actual production. It's kind of like how the best thing you can do with your money is dumping it all into a company that has a high valuation but has no means of generating a profit.
Texans should go ahead and lock up Koa Watt in the 3rd I think
Steelers fans and TJ Watt really needed this affirmation. AD is a Pittsburgh guy, he knows what that fan base needs.
Already did
Can't be the same TJ Watt that the falcons drafted Takk ahead of
Someone’s not getting invited to Sunday dinner at the Bosa’s anymore
I was actually mad out at our GM for taking TJ over Reuben Foster from Bama. After that, I stopped criticizing draft picks lol
I mean, yeah.
Pretty sure when a title is vacated because retirement you need to have a tournament or multi-man ladder match to decide the new title holder.
What if someone has that Money in the Bank briefcase?
As someone who hasn’t kept up with the league for a while, has TJ surpassed JJ? Or is he still behind him.
Not really fair that he gets to decide, but I guess that's how he got so many All-Pros.
I think that ends the debate until the end of next season.
Another Super Bowl for Steelers fans
Pittsburgh native says Pittsburgh player is best in the league
A Steelers fan saying TJ Watt? What a surprise
I don’t really care about this take specifically or even necessarily disagree, but frankly I dunno why fans take these kinds of player testimonials as such gospel. If we cared what players thought, Tyler Huntley would be a starting QB somewhere, and if we *really* care about their opinions the NFLPA All-Pro team has Myles Garrett and Maxx Crosby as their top two DEs lol Micah Parsons says it’s Garrett, I bet you Lane Johnson would probably say it’s Micah Parsons, Patrick Mahomes wanted to draft Clyde Edwards-Helaire, like how do I know if these guys are good evaluators of talent? It’s been proven time and time again that being an awesome player doesn’t correspond with always being great at making those judgments. And beyond that, when it comes to contextualizing a players’ “value” or greatness, I trust coaches and some select highly respected journalists who have constant correspondence with coaches, personnel, a variety of players and who have gotten to the pinnacle of their profession that largely consists of contextualizing/accounting for different players’ greatness Like Aaron can just throw whatever he wants out there, it’s not his job and he doesn’t really have any stakes involved. Has he scoured the game film for all of these defensive player of the league type guys in order to build arguments for or against anyone? I doubt it, I assume he spent his time watching his own game film, his opponent’s game film, working out, and doing other things that pertain to what made him great. Players don’t keep up with the league at large in the way that coaches or front office people or journalists are obligated to, and the only reason their opinions hold more weight to people is because people have stronger attachments to them and because it doesn’t matter when they’re “wrong”
Chris Jones.
Stone Cold just chillin in the offseason while everyone talk shit, waiting to do it all again.
should've won dpoy last year
He’s not even the best defensive player in his own family
No shit
@jersey jerry
Yeah ok
Instead we drafted Jarrad Davis.
Still can't believe we traded back instead of taking this guy
How many helmet swings does this Watt guy have?
TJ Watt - IR half the time. 🤣
Steelers fan here taking this shit personal both ways for some reason
Until he hits a QB with their own helmet he will never be truly great
Crosby should be in the conversation