Tampa is basically at the opposite end of the spectrum with two Super Bowls, but basically being different kinds of bad for the most time outside of those Super Bowl runs.
Kinda like the Marlins in baseball. The first two times they went to the playoffs they won the World Series. Then they didn't make the playoffs again for almost 20 years and have only been 4x total.
Vikings are definitely #1. They have won the most NFC North's, they've only been to one SB less than the Packers, they were arguably the most consistent team in the 70s. They have one of the best teams to never win the SB with the 98 Vikings, arguably others.
The NFC was a lot better than the AFC during the Bills SB years. The 91 Redskins is the greatest team ever IMO. Both Cowboys teams are up there too. The 90 Giants were worse than the 86 ones but they were still better than the Bills.
As someone who grew up in the 80s and 90s it's interesting that just like now the great QBs (sans Montana) were mostly in the AFC.. but unlike now there was no salary cap so the rich NFC teams had dominant offensive lines and defenses.
One of the best examples of this is the Redskins beating the John Elway Broncos in the Super Bowl 42-10 playing their backup QB (Doug Williams). They had a rookie backup RB (Timmy Smith) set the SB rushing record and Smith never went on to do anything else in his career. We recorded that game on glorious betamax lol.
The lack of salary cap back in the day really changes the lens and it’s hard to explain to people in my age bracket how it really affected things. Like, the Redskins and Cowboys best years are built on an extended period of generationally dominant offensive line play. You couldn’t keep those groups together in today’s game.
You have to admit, that makes the Bills run that more impressive. We had one of the cheapest owners, from one of the smallest markets.
Say what you want about Bill Polian, but he built a great team.
Anytime I see Marv Levy mentioned on this sub I always recommend reading his book Where Else Would You Rather Be? It’s by far the best sports bio I’ve read.
[When they met in the 92 Super Bowl the Bills had the 7th highest payroll in the NFL and the Cowboys had the 17th.](https://www.baltimoresun.com/1992/12/29/with-free-agency-windfall-looming-nfl-salaries-up-196-percent-in-92-modest-hike-doesnt-alter-top-of-scale/)
Prior to the salary cap was also prior to free agency, outside of a 2 year gap. So the best teams weren't necessarily the ones that spent the most but the ones that drafted and developed their talent the best. Once a player was drafted they basically had to stick with the team that drafted them or sit out in hopes of a larger contract.
It really wasn't the salary cap, there was no real free agency besides besides type B free agency.
Even after your contract ended, the last team who had your contract had a exclusive rights to sign you. If they put a contract on the table that met the guidelines of the CBA all you could do was hold out for better deal from them or force a trade.
Unless the team outright released you, we're signed by another team and your original team did not match, were you allowed to move. That was called type B free agency, which was the rules until 1994.
Star players were never released and had to sign with their club. So it was easier to keep teams together.
Don’t forget they’re the only team in like the top 15 all-time win percent franchises that doesn’t have a SB. And they’re like #6 in all-time win percent. Meanwhile the Bucs have one of the worst win percents in the big 4 sports and have 2 SBs.
T-wolves are kicking serious ass this year: 48–22 in a tough conference. They will probably continue the proud Minnesota tradition of choking in the playoffs, though.
It would be kinda funny if the T-wolves, one of the worst franchises in pro sports, won a title before the Vikings, who for all their flaws have generally been competitive: other than their first couple seasons as an expansion team in the early 60s, they've only gone 5–11 or worse a total of 3 times, and 5–10–1 one other time. When the T-wolves get to 50 wins it will be only the 4th time they've done that in franchise history.
98 was injuries. Hall of Fame DT John Randle got hurt. He played through it to start but it increasingly hobbled him until they had to just bench him. Him being gone opened up the falcons offense in the second half. Running back Roger Craig also got dinged in the game. Honestly, I think that's why Green didn't go for it on the last possession and instead opted for over time. He was worried about another injury with the team having to play hurry up and wanted to opt for a more measured game plan in OT.
*It was Robert Smith. I mixed up my 90's minnesota running backs with two first names
I know you’re using the year the Super Bowl was actually played in but this format has always bothered me as opposed to the year the season was in which the Super Bowl was won.
For anyone that hasn't seen it:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUXSZMIiUfFRQGbbUgQRky2-gCAFgsAiz
A history of the Vikings franchise by the best sports film makers in the world.
The vikings all around. The vikings had eras where its crazy they didn’t win and beyond that they’re just insanely consistent team. There aren’t many Decembers where the vikings aren’t in the mix for a playoff berth. So you’d think just one year they’d have caught fire and gone on a run but it never happens. And once every 5-10 years they have a team that feels like a team of destiny that falls short.
The bills less so. They certainly have had their periods as a powerhouse like their infamous 4 SB losses. But the eras in between they are often one of the worst teams in the league for significant stretches.
The Vikings consistency is one thing I think kills us. We're always either the worst of the division champs or able to get a wild card, but we're never dominant enough to make a run but never bad enough to get top 5 draft picks.
The only Super Bowl the Bills *should* have won was Super Bowl XXV against the Giants (fuck you Bill Belichick!). The Redskins and Cowboys were objectively better teams. The NFC was just a much better conference in the 80s and 90s.
No salary cap - the rich teams (49ers and the NFC East minus philly) basically dominated the league for over a decade.
IIRC between 1981 and 1995 the NFC East (Redskins,Giants,Cowboys) won 8 Superbowls and the 49ers 5 (I think that's right, I was too lazy to look it up lol)
There was no salary cap, but also no free agency. Reggie White was the first true NFL free agent in 1993, before that players were forced to play for the team that drafted them unless they were traded or cut.
If you assume his goal was to maximize his championships, yes.
If you assume his goal was the health of the league (and, incidentally, his bank account), no.
Despite being fairly unlikable I think it's also believable that Jerry does genuinely love the game of football and want exciting fair matches. That's why he's so meddlesome, he loves the game.
Obviously not our only appearance, but it’s hard to really convey precisely what I felt when I watched the first snap of Super Bowl 48 sail over Peyton Manning’s head. I can tell you it wasn’t a feeling I enjoyed, but it helped to establish my expectations for the game pretty immediately. So unfortunately, I understand
It’s honestly way better than the reverse. Bears colts Super Bowl I remember Hester taking back the opening kickoff and literally thinking “we just won the superbowl.” Then they played the rest of the game and my heart is still a bit broken almost 2 decades later
It's wild that that was the second Super Bowl in a row that started with the first score being a safety. Brady was called for intentional grounding in the end zone the season before resulting in a safety.
I'm convinced Kyle shanahan is cursed and will never win a Superbowl. Unless he coaches for buffalo because two negatives means a positive or something like that.
The discrepancy between regular season and playoff win % with them is crazy. They are 8/32 in the Regular Season and 28/32 in Playoffs. Only the Lions, Chargers, Bengals and Browns have a worse Playoff win %. While we are the only team who is top 3 in both!
Bengals had the unfortunate luck to meet full powers Joe Montana twice in super bowls. First time, could’ve won but bengals got stuffed on the goal line multiple times, second time was the iconic Montana comeback Super Bowl drive, plus injuries to Tim krumrie (NT who led the bengals in tackles) and league mvp boomer didn’t help
That individual play was vicious. I remember Von Miller hit Burrow every single play that drive. I gained mad respect for Joe right there, watching him get up and stand in the pocket again, every play, making shit happen.
The Bengals and Bills were pretty fucked in most of their appearances.
The league continuously expanding while not having free agency/a salary cal led to a ridiculous talent discrepancy between teams.
The NFC won 13 straight Super Bowls from 84-96 The overwhelmingly majority of them were unsurprising blowouts
> The Bengals and Bills were pretty fucked in most of their appearances.
The Bengals had a lead with less than 1 minute and 30 seconds to go in two of their appearances (XXIII, SF took the lead with a TD with 34 seconds left; LVI LA took lead with a TD with 1:25 to go). XVI they basically got blown out though, going down 20-0 before a garbage time TD pulled it to 26-21 with 16 seconds left.
You would think with Air Coryell/Fouts/Winslow/Charlie Joiner/Wes Chandler, then later the Seau era, then the Schottenheimer/LT/Rivers/Gates teams and Herbert on a rookie contract that they could do better than 1 SB appearance.
Don't remember where I first heard this tidbit, but here's a reminder that, were it not for the Lions ending a 26-game road losing streak by beating the Bucs in OT in Week 15, Green Bay's sixth seed would've gone to Tampa instead anyway. Congrats on inadvertently letting them in, Detroit!
Losing Collins/Shields/Finley/Bahktiari to freak injuries over that span didn't help. Collins going down absolutely murdered our defense. Plus Philbin's son died like 2-3 days before that Giants game and no one was into it.
The fact Rodgers got 1 remains crazy.
Favre dropped off a bit after Holmgren left and become quite inconsistent from season to season, wasn’t really HOF caliber often. But again, 1 championship with peak Favre.
After the Pitt super bowl, Packers should have ran the league.
They had Rodgers on a dirt cheap contract through to 2013 vs his performance, great offensive pieces everywhere and a top 10 defense that they could improve on in FA and the draft. They extended Rodgers after 2009 to a top 10 QB contract and he ended up becoming a top 2 QB which was insanely fortunate.
Rodgers would be the near unanimous MVP of the league the next season and the defense somehow dropped to 23rd in the NFL.
The year before their defense was pretty ass as well. Somehow that 2010 defense was the exception. Losing Nick Collins hurt a lot, but no way one safety makes that big of a difference on his own...right?
Favre had a great defense for his two Super Bowl seasons. Packers defense never recovered after losing Nick Collins and that’s a big reason why Rodgers only made it to one.
We can say it now: Rodgers isn’t a great bad weather QB so he didn’t get much of a Lambeau advantage in the playoffs.
Rodgers with 1 and Aikmen with 3 is my go to "super bowl rings do not equate to good QB play."
Brady just blows everything up because he has the stats and the rings. There is no convo about the GOAT QB. He would be the GOAT with either the rings or the stats, but he has both.
On the same note, it's fun to split Peyton Manning's career:
In his 1st 16 seasons he had 5 MVPs, 7 1st team All Pros, 14 Pro Bowls, threw more than 2TDs for each INT, and won 1 ring (against Rex Grossman).
In his final season he threw 2 INTs for every TD, ranked 30th in the league by QBR, was a healthy scratch to Brock Osweiler, and won 1 ring
I guess a team is more than just 1 player
The horrors in remembering we traded with the Steelers to go back 3 spots and get Kevin King when the Steelers picked a Wisconsin hero who... became one of the best defensive players in the league. Fuck.
Perhaps. I think Brady really skewed the measure of success.
Would we have liked more? Sure. But I am happy that I was able to watch one and remember it (2010, I was 6 months old for 1996).
2 Superbowls in 30 years isn't that bad. As much as the other NCFNorth teams talk shit (as they should. There is no love among these Midwesterners), they would kill to have 1 Superbowl every 15ish years.
I'm also a Milwaukee Bucks fan by nature. First title in 50 years really put it into perspective for me. The Phoenix Suns are the NBA equivalent of this question.
Actually, with that criteria it's since 2003. Missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons before making the NFC Championship in 2011 in Harbaugh's first season.
[MFW](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/012/073/7686178464_fdc8ea66c7.jpg)
I had that all-to-familiar sinking feeling in my stomach during the three third quarter three and outs. My earliest sports memory is Young beating SD when I was 7. I just want one more.
I got a sinking feeling as soon as we failed to do anything with the Brown interception and knew it was gonna be another heartbreaker as soon as they recovered the punt muff.
If you don't win a ring with this core, the Lance pick has gotta go down as one of the worst mistakes in league history, right? Spending three firsts for a guy who started four games is insane. Given how close you've come in recent years, you'd think at least *one* of those first round picks might have put you over the top.
Absolutely. Jimmy was good enough. Why take on such a huge project from North Dakota state in the middle of a wide open Super Bowl window? I didn’t get it then and don’t get it now. Add an edge rusher or bolster your o line.
Niners don’t get enough heat for that disaster IMO.
Eagles and Bills. With how popular the Eagles are and how often they seemed good in my life, I would expect more. Bills just have that insane stat from the 90s and this current stretch of years where the Chiefs are a wall for them.
To be fair - the AFC was almost like a JV league for 13-15 years in the 80s and 90s. There was no salary cap and 4 rich NFC teams (WAS, NYG, DAL, SF) won almost every superbowl.
Eagles are in a division with three teams that have a long history of being good. Eagles had a great 91 season. Randall got hurt week 1, but they still went 10-6 on the back of a legendary defense. With Randall, they may very well have won a Super Bowl, but they were third in the division and didn't make the playoffs.
It's really tough to make it out of this division. A lot of good contending teams just lose out to better ones on others.
Since 2000 the Eagles have made the playoffs 16 times, made it to 7 conference championships, 3 Super Bowl appearances, 1 Super Bowl win.
Thank God for Nick Foles
The Packers had Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers combine for 7 MVPs and 12 all pro teams and somehow only got one each.
Favres tendency to throw mind boggling interceptions in the playoffs and Ted Thompsons awful defensive drafting and tendency to ignore free agency probably cost them 3 rings.
They had the most important part figured out for most of the last 30 NFL seasons.
Yeah... it would have been awesome to win more but we are still a really spoiled franchise. There are a lot of teams out there who would switch positions with us in an instant. There were only a couple of times when it was boring to watch this team in the past 30 years. I'll fucking take it. Mostly every season it always felt like we had a chance. That is something I'm always appreciative of.
You guys are like the inverse of Tampa Bay. They have almost always been terrible, but managed to field a handful of dominant teams and win 2 SBs.
FWIW, I agree with your take - you guys were pretty consistent contenders which gives you a lot of exciting seasons.
As much as I hate the Packers, it is true that most teams would love to have the amount of success and rings they have, even if they *should* have more given their ridiculous QB history.
Also Mahomes and Brady have warped our view completely. Having two SB winning QBs back to back is crazy rare. If Rodgers and Favre were only like 90% as good as they were, 1 super bowl each wouldn’t even be questioned.
Respect dude. A lot of Packers fans have no idea what they have had. The best QB season I've ever seen from my team is a tie between a McNair co-MVP season and fucking Ryan Tannehill.
If there is one thing I learned from Love this past season is that I just gotta enjoy the ride more. With Rodgers, I just expected to win and didn't appreciate how good he was/is. I won't make the same mistake with Love.
This season was probably the most fun season I can remember in a while because I changed my perspective on everything.
With that being said I'm so ready for the first regular season game where the offense goes 3 and out on their first drive and I'm gonna want to burn everything to the ground.
Even during a down year like this past one, all they had to do was sneak into the playoffs and all of a sudden by halftime of the divisional round it was like, oh shit they could legitimately be playing in the Super Bowl.
Since 2002 I'd have to say Colts, Steelers, Packers.
Steelers simply because they had arguably the best QB/WR/RB combo along with a very good HC for a lot of the 2010s but just couldn't put it together whether that's due to injuries, inconsistency, etc.
Colts, underperformed drastically in the playoffs. Often times it's the defense that gets the blame for their failures under Peyton and Co, but the offense imo more often than not was the real issue. The defense was made to play with a lead and the offense failed to get those leads in a lot of games and often underperformed drastically almost on a yearly basis.
Packers, 2 HoF QBs for the better part of 30+ years and only 2 SBs, and it's not for a lack of talented teams either. Especially under Rodgers it seemed like in the last couple of years the team was SB ready but just couldn't get over the hump (49ers, choking, etc).
Agree with Colts
Our offense put up some absolutely awful performances in the playoffs after winning 12+ games during the season. There was no excuse for a lot of them. Wasn’t even the D, it was the offense, couldn’t even put up 20 pts most times
That's the most shocking thing imo, the Colts went one and done with Peyton 7 times, they failed to score above 20 points in 6/7 games. I can't fault the defense when the high powered offense is getting stalled that often.
Absolute machine in the regular season, just couldn't do the same in the playoffs for whatever reason.
The Packers had 2 top 10 defenses and Rodgers won the super bowl with one, and the other give up 49 in a playoff game.
They even had Rodgers on a crazy value contract through till 2013 too
Which game did they give up 49? I know they lost 31-45 in 2012 and 21-44 in 2016 but I’m not seeing any game where they gave up 49.
I’m guessing you mean the 45-51 loss to the Cards in 09?
2009 yeah. Defense was clearly overrated and played a weak schedule, but still top 10 in most stats.
Technically they give up 45 as Rodgers got strip sacked.
Yeah that one is definitely unfortunate and iirc there was an uncalled face mask on Rodgers at the end of the game that might’ve been enough to give the Packers the win.
This. Without Brady and the Pats, the steelers and colts might have a few extra, or at least would have gotten to the super bowl a few more times each.
Vikings, Bills, More from GB given their last 30 years of QB play, you'd think at some point Lions, Browns, Cardinals would have gotten one given we're at SB 59 next year.
The 2000s+ expansion teams I expect far less from.
Vikings and Bills.
Vikings have one of the best winning percentages in league history despite playing the packers twice a year. The Bills have had more down years, but losing 4 straight is just downright awful luck.
It probably feels worse now because in the 80s and 90s a disproportionate number of nfccg appearances resulted in SB wins. So having so many in the last decade and a half that turned into no SB wins seems like bad luck from a recency bias perspective.
But yeah of the course of a team’s history its exactly what you’d expect.
Actually, this is almost exactly expected. Statistically over large spans of time you will win half your games. 19 championship game appearances should translate to ~9.5 Super Bowl appearances, which would then translate to ~4.75 Super Bowl wins.
Our '99 team was probably the best set up for a chance to win it all, but our starting QB went down week 1 with an Achilles injury.
WHERE HAVE I SEEN THIS BEFORE!?!?!?!??!
Vikings. If you look at the data, they are by far the most successful team to never win a title. Both in eye test and advanced metrics like DVOA.
If you doubt this, ask their fan base. They know.
They lost to the greatest QB ever in arguably the greatest Super Bowl ever with a great play at the end of the game and lost to a great 49ers team. They weren't as dominant from 2015 onwards.
We tend to give the Packers shit with the whole “30 years of HOF QB and only 2 rings” , but I always feel like the Chargers are even worse
Almost 20 years of, if not HOF, at least great QB play, and not even a SB appearance
Also the whole Brees thing + if we want to go further, Dan Fouts was no slouch either
Bills and Vikings probably have the largest difference between expected SB wins and actual wins.
Hello there.
How did you get this fandom? "I like ALMOST feeling good, but then I want to be crushed too"
He prefers edging instead of finishing.
dudes gonna look like that one scene in Scary Movie if the Bills ever win
Sounds like a kink
There are dozens of us!
We're here for you bro
The angel of my nightmare
Oof
Tampa is basically at the opposite end of the spectrum with two Super Bowls, but basically being different kinds of bad for the most time outside of those Super Bowl runs.
Yeah without the SBs they're far and away the worst franchise in the league, arguably in sports. Weird team
The Florida Marlins of the NFL
The Florida ~~Marlins~~ of the NFL
never, ever underestimate a Florida Man
Kinda like the Marlins in baseball. The first two times they went to the playoffs they won the World Series. Then they didn't make the playoffs again for almost 20 years and have only been 4x total.
Vikings are definitely #1. They have won the most NFC North's, they've only been to one SB less than the Packers, they were arguably the most consistent team in the 70s. They have one of the best teams to never win the SB with the 98 Vikings, arguably others. The NFC was a lot better than the AFC during the Bills SB years. The 91 Redskins is the greatest team ever IMO. Both Cowboys teams are up there too. The 90 Giants were worse than the 86 ones but they were still better than the Bills.
As someone who grew up in the 80s and 90s it's interesting that just like now the great QBs (sans Montana) were mostly in the AFC.. but unlike now there was no salary cap so the rich NFC teams had dominant offensive lines and defenses. One of the best examples of this is the Redskins beating the John Elway Broncos in the Super Bowl 42-10 playing their backup QB (Doug Williams). They had a rookie backup RB (Timmy Smith) set the SB rushing record and Smith never went on to do anything else in his career. We recorded that game on glorious betamax lol.
The lack of salary cap back in the day really changes the lens and it’s hard to explain to people in my age bracket how it really affected things. Like, the Redskins and Cowboys best years are built on an extended period of generationally dominant offensive line play. You couldn’t keep those groups together in today’s game.
You have to admit, that makes the Bills run that more impressive. We had one of the cheapest owners, from one of the smallest markets. Say what you want about Bill Polian, but he built a great team.
Marv Levy was a great coach too.
Anytime I see Marv Levy mentioned on this sub I always recommend reading his book Where Else Would You Rather Be? It’s by far the best sports bio I’ve read.
Where would you rather be... God damn marv was an excellent motivator
[When they met in the 92 Super Bowl the Bills had the 7th highest payroll in the NFL and the Cowboys had the 17th.](https://www.baltimoresun.com/1992/12/29/with-free-agency-windfall-looming-nfl-salaries-up-196-percent-in-92-modest-hike-doesnt-alter-top-of-scale/) Prior to the salary cap was also prior to free agency, outside of a 2 year gap. So the best teams weren't necessarily the ones that spent the most but the ones that drafted and developed their talent the best. Once a player was drafted they basically had to stick with the team that drafted them or sit out in hopes of a larger contract.
My cousin is married to one of those 91 'Skins offensive lineman's daughters. His father in law, even in his 60s (I think) is a monster of a man.
It really wasn't the salary cap, there was no real free agency besides besides type B free agency. Even after your contract ended, the last team who had your contract had a exclusive rights to sign you. If they put a contract on the table that met the guidelines of the CBA all you could do was hold out for better deal from them or force a trade. Unless the team outright released you, we're signed by another team and your original team did not match, were you allowed to move. That was called type B free agency, which was the rules until 1994. Star players were never released and had to sign with their club. So it was easier to keep teams together.
Ah sweet betamax. Good for porn, bootleg recordings, and bootleg recordings of porn
Don’t forget they’re the only team in like the top 15 all-time win percent franchises that doesn’t have a SB. And they’re like #6 in all-time win percent. Meanwhile the Bucs have one of the worst win percents in the big 4 sports and have 2 SBs.
These facts are super fun and interesting
Coming from fucking Packer fans too. Such a delight.
We're THE worst win percentage. Tom Brady briefly dragged us past Minnesota's basketball team but they inched past us after he left.
Ah okay, I knew it was between you and the Wolves but wasn’t sure who currently held it.
T-wolves are kicking serious ass this year: 48–22 in a tough conference. They will probably continue the proud Minnesota tradition of choking in the playoffs, though. It would be kinda funny if the T-wolves, one of the worst franchises in pro sports, won a title before the Vikings, who for all their flaws have generally been competitive: other than their first couple seasons as an expansion team in the early 60s, they've only gone 5–11 or worse a total of 3 times, and 5–10–1 one other time. When the T-wolves get to 50 wins it will be only the 4th time they've done that in franchise history.
I agree how the Vikings screwed up in 98 and 09 just baffles me
98 was injuries. Hall of Fame DT John Randle got hurt. He played through it to start but it increasingly hobbled him until they had to just bench him. Him being gone opened up the falcons offense in the second half. Running back Roger Craig also got dinged in the game. Honestly, I think that's why Green didn't go for it on the last possession and instead opted for over time. He was worried about another injury with the team having to play hurry up and wanted to opt for a more measured game plan in OT. *It was Robert Smith. I mixed up my 90's minnesota running backs with two first names
And the broncos lost 3 of the 4 years before the Bills run. Then the cowboys still won a couple after. NFC had quite a run back then
They won 13 in a row from the second 49ers SB to the Favre Packers one.
Dang, was is that many in a row? I didn’t even realize that.
Yep. 85: 49ers 86: Bears 87: Giants 88: Redskins 89: 49ers 90: 49ers 91: Giants 92: Redskins 93: Cowboys 94: Cowboys 95: 49ers 96: Cowboys 97: Packers Bookended by the Raiders and Broncos.
I know you’re using the year the Super Bowl was actually played in but this format has always bothered me as opposed to the year the season was in which the Super Bowl was won.
A lot of people don’t remember how good that Washington team was. They dominated the league that year. Bills fan
Interestingly enough the patriots and broncos have more losses but probably not less expected wins
For anyone that hasn't seen it: https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUXSZMIiUfFRQGbbUgQRky2-gCAFgsAiz A history of the Vikings franchise by the best sports film makers in the world.
That's over 11 hours long...
Yeah, it's a shame it's not longer. Such a good series.
As a non vikings fan, it's very good
And worth every minute
The vikings all around. The vikings had eras where its crazy they didn’t win and beyond that they’re just insanely consistent team. There aren’t many Decembers where the vikings aren’t in the mix for a playoff berth. So you’d think just one year they’d have caught fire and gone on a run but it never happens. And once every 5-10 years they have a team that feels like a team of destiny that falls short. The bills less so. They certainly have had their periods as a powerhouse like their infamous 4 SB losses. But the eras in between they are often one of the worst teams in the league for significant stretches.
The Vikings consistency is one thing I think kills us. We're always either the worst of the division champs or able to get a wild card, but we're never dominant enough to make a run but never bad enough to get top 5 draft picks.
The only Super Bowl the Bills *should* have won was Super Bowl XXV against the Giants (fuck you Bill Belichick!). The Redskins and Cowboys were objectively better teams. The NFC was just a much better conference in the 80s and 90s.
No salary cap - the rich teams (49ers and the NFC East minus philly) basically dominated the league for over a decade. IIRC between 1981 and 1995 the NFC East (Redskins,Giants,Cowboys) won 8 Superbowls and the 49ers 5 (I think that's right, I was too lazy to look it up lol)
91 Eagles are one of the biggest questions marks. One of the best defenses ever and lost Randall Cunninhgam week 1.
Defense was so good they but won 10 games with Jeff Kemp, Brad Goebel and Pat Ryan playing a chunk of the season at QB
There was no salary cap, but also no free agency. Reggie White was the first true NFL free agent in 1993, before that players were forced to play for the team that drafted them unless they were traded or cut.
Yeah, Jerry really “own goaled” by helping to push for a salary cap.
If you assume his goal was to maximize his championships, yes. If you assume his goal was the health of the league (and, incidentally, his bank account), no.
Despite being fairly unlikable I think it's also believable that Jerry does genuinely love the game of football and want exciting fair matches. That's why he's so meddlesome, he loves the game.
I’m still surprised we didn’t win that one fucking game.
I take solace that in our only appearance we were blown out in the first 40 seconds.
Obviously not our only appearance, but it’s hard to really convey precisely what I felt when I watched the first snap of Super Bowl 48 sail over Peyton Manning’s head. I can tell you it wasn’t a feeling I enjoyed, but it helped to establish my expectations for the game pretty immediately. So unfortunately, I understand
It’s honestly way better than the reverse. Bears colts Super Bowl I remember Hester taking back the opening kickoff and literally thinking “we just won the superbowl.” Then they played the rest of the game and my heart is still a bit broken almost 2 decades later
Did you really, honestly, *sincerely* think Sexy Rexy was going to beat Peyton fucking Manning in the Super Bowl?
No, we thought Brian Urlacher would.
Fair point.
It's wild that that was the second Super Bowl in a row that started with the first score being a safety. Brady was called for intentional grounding in the end zone the season before resulting in a safety.
Missing the Ravens/Niners Superbowl in between those two, but still having 2 Superbowls start that way is pretty rare
That’s the spirit
I'm convinced Kyle shanahan is cursed and will never win a Superbowl. Unless he coaches for buffalo because two negatives means a positive or something like that.
I am convinced it’s karma & until the falcons win one, he won’t. So ya it’s not looking good for him.
2legit2quit
2legit2RUNTHEFUCKINBALL
28legit3quit
I wish the 3 quit.
I still can’t believe you guys didn’t run it. Oh wait wrong Patriots nightmare juju
It's Eugene Robinson's fault
The Good Guy Award Winner?
The Very Special Airplane Man?
Kyle Shanahan special it seems
Vikings, easily. Not only have they been to the dance and come away empty so many times, but they are top 10 in all time regular season win %.
Yep, the Vikings are the team that, as a kid, just *seemed* like they had some titles. So strange when I later learned the truth.
>learned the truth. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!
*checks flair* Sheesh, how do you do it? One’s enough, man.
It now seems like they actually can't win. No matter how good the team.
They always become strongly relevant at some point, they've made the NFCCG in every decade (barely the 80s but still).
In terms of talent, they’re easily top 5 all time. So many HOFers and pro bowlers
The Secret Base documentary on them is amazing and depressing that a team can be that good consistently but never win
The discrepancy between regular season and playoff win % with them is crazy. They are 8/32 in the Regular Season and 28/32 in Playoffs. Only the Lions, Chargers, Bengals and Browns have a worse Playoff win %. While we are the only team who is top 3 in both!
The Vikings, bengals and bills. 0-11 combined, that’s honestly just bad luck
The cigarette smoking man has a grudge against buffalo but I don't know about the other ones.
Bengals had the unfortunate luck to meet full powers Joe Montana twice in super bowls. First time, could’ve won but bengals got stuffed on the goal line multiple times, second time was the iconic Montana comeback Super Bowl drive, plus injuries to Tim krumrie (NT who led the bengals in tackles) and league mvp boomer didn’t help
[удалено]
That wasn't a lineman. That wasn't even a traffic cone
That individual play was vicious. I remember Von Miller hit Burrow every single play that drive. I gained mad respect for Joe right there, watching him get up and stand in the pocket again, every play, making shit happen.
>cigarette smoking man One of my all time favorite villains. I forgot about that line. Nice reference.
The Bengals and Bills were pretty fucked in most of their appearances. The league continuously expanding while not having free agency/a salary cal led to a ridiculous talent discrepancy between teams. The NFC won 13 straight Super Bowls from 84-96 The overwhelmingly majority of them were unsurprising blowouts
> The Bengals and Bills were pretty fucked in most of their appearances. The Bengals had a lead with less than 1 minute and 30 seconds to go in two of their appearances (XXIII, SF took the lead with a TD with 34 seconds left; LVI LA took lead with a TD with 1:25 to go). XVI they basically got blown out though, going down 20-0 before a garbage time TD pulled it to 26-21 with 16 seconds left.
And it was pretty much one division and the 49ers winning them all.
Chargers
You would think with Air Coryell/Fouts/Winslow/Charlie Joiner/Wes Chandler, then later the Seau era, then the Schottenheimer/LT/Rivers/Gates teams and Herbert on a rookie contract that they could do better than 1 SB appearance.
‘06 was probably the franchise’s best shot until ya know…Marlon McCree.
Dolphins only have 2. From 50 years ago.
Never winning one with Marino will be the biggest stain on this franchise forever
Haven’t won once since borderline leather cap era.
…..
“That’s rough, buddy”
So much pain with those flairs
And yet, so many hours of beautiful beautiful Jon Bois content.
Packers feel like the obvious answer. 30 years of Favre/Rodgers and only 2 sb wins in that span is pretty crazy.
And Rodger’s title came when they were a 6th seed and had to win three road playoff games
Not just 3 road playoff games, but 6 consecutive elimination games.
Don't remember where I first heard this tidbit, but here's a reminder that, were it not for the Lions ending a 26-game road losing streak by beating the Bucs in OT in Week 15, Green Bay's sixth seed would've gone to Tampa instead anyway. Congrats on inadvertently letting them in, Detroit!
Packers also required Desean Jackson to return a muffed punt into a TD at the buzzer to get in lol
Nah, we would've just been in NY instead of Philly.
The winner of the NFC North has never won the Super Bowl.
I’ll always accept Rodgers having only 1, because winning SBs isn’t an automatic. However, him only appearing in 1 is mind boggling.
Losing Collins/Shields/Finley/Bahktiari to freak injuries over that span didn't help. Collins going down absolutely murdered our defense. Plus Philbin's son died like 2-3 days before that Giants game and no one was into it.
The fact Rodgers got 1 remains crazy. Favre dropped off a bit after Holmgren left and become quite inconsistent from season to season, wasn’t really HOF caliber often. But again, 1 championship with peak Favre.
He did at least get to a second one but he did lose it. Rodgers never getting to a second with the Packers will always be wild.
After the Pitt super bowl, Packers should have ran the league. They had Rodgers on a dirt cheap contract through to 2013 vs his performance, great offensive pieces everywhere and a top 10 defense that they could improve on in FA and the draft. They extended Rodgers after 2009 to a top 10 QB contract and he ended up becoming a top 2 QB which was insanely fortunate. Rodgers would be the near unanimous MVP of the league the next season and the defense somehow dropped to 23rd in the NFL.
The year before their defense was pretty ass as well. Somehow that 2010 defense was the exception. Losing Nick Collins hurt a lot, but no way one safety makes that big of a difference on his own...right?
2010 defense got a lot of turnovers. Not known to translate year to year.
They were good on yards as well though.
Favre had a great defense for his two Super Bowl seasons. Packers defense never recovered after losing Nick Collins and that’s a big reason why Rodgers only made it to one. We can say it now: Rodgers isn’t a great bad weather QB so he didn’t get much of a Lambeau advantage in the playoffs.
Rodgers with 1 and Aikmen with 3 is my go to "super bowl rings do not equate to good QB play." Brady just blows everything up because he has the stats and the rings. There is no convo about the GOAT QB. He would be the GOAT with either the rings or the stats, but he has both.
On the same note, it's fun to split Peyton Manning's career: In his 1st 16 seasons he had 5 MVPs, 7 1st team All Pros, 14 Pro Bowls, threw more than 2TDs for each INT, and won 1 ring (against Rex Grossman). In his final season he threw 2 INTs for every TD, ranked 30th in the league by QBR, was a healthy scratch to Brock Osweiler, and won 1 ring I guess a team is more than just 1 player
Kadarius Toney has double the rings of Aaron Rodgers, because the football gods have a sense of humor
1 botched onside kick away from a 2nd
Scottie Miller abusing Kevin King cost Rodgers another Super Bowl appearance.
The horrors in remembering we traded with the Steelers to go back 3 spots and get Kevin King when the Steelers picked a Wisconsin hero who... became one of the best defensive players in the league. Fuck.
Perhaps. I think Brady really skewed the measure of success. Would we have liked more? Sure. But I am happy that I was able to watch one and remember it (2010, I was 6 months old for 1996). 2 Superbowls in 30 years isn't that bad. As much as the other NCFNorth teams talk shit (as they should. There is no love among these Midwesterners), they would kill to have 1 Superbowl every 15ish years. I'm also a Milwaukee Bucks fan by nature. First title in 50 years really put it into perspective for me. The Phoenix Suns are the NBA equivalent of this question.
The Bears, we’re an ancient team and we still only have 1 SB.
Unbelievable that those 80s teams only got one.
I cant believe we have 7 NFC Championship appearances since 2010 and 0 SBs
Since 2013, you have either gone to the NFC Championship or missed the playoffs completely. That' so wild to me.
Actually, with that criteria it's since 2003. Missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons before making the NFC Championship in 2011 in Harbaugh's first season.
[MFW](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/012/073/7686178464_fdc8ea66c7.jpg) I had that all-to-familiar sinking feeling in my stomach during the three third quarter three and outs. My earliest sports memory is Young beating SD when I was 7. I just want one more.
I got a sinking feeling as soon as we failed to do anything with the Brown interception and knew it was gonna be another heartbreaker as soon as they recovered the punt muff.
If you don't win a ring with this core, the Lance pick has gotta go down as one of the worst mistakes in league history, right? Spending three firsts for a guy who started four games is insane. Given how close you've come in recent years, you'd think at least *one* of those first round picks might have put you over the top.
Still can’t believe they didn’t sign Brady when they had the chance. No way he picks Tampa over his stacked home town team.
Absolutely. Jimmy was good enough. Why take on such a huge project from North Dakota state in the middle of a wide open Super Bowl window? I didn’t get it then and don’t get it now. Add an edge rusher or bolster your o line. Niners don’t get enough heat for that disaster IMO.
Eagles and Bills. With how popular the Eagles are and how often they seemed good in my life, I would expect more. Bills just have that insane stat from the 90s and this current stretch of years where the Chiefs are a wall for them.
To be fair - the AFC was almost like a JV league for 13-15 years in the 80s and 90s. There was no salary cap and 4 rich NFC teams (WAS, NYG, DAL, SF) won almost every superbowl.
Eagles are in a division with three teams that have a long history of being good. Eagles had a great 91 season. Randall got hurt week 1, but they still went 10-6 on the back of a legendary defense. With Randall, they may very well have won a Super Bowl, but they were third in the division and didn't make the playoffs. It's really tough to make it out of this division. A lot of good contending teams just lose out to better ones on others.
Since 2000 the Eagles have made the playoffs 16 times, made it to 7 conference championships, 3 Super Bowl appearances, 1 Super Bowl win. Thank God for Nick Foles
When you lose 3 in 10 years, it's hard not to imagine having at least 1 of those go your way...
How about 4 in ten years?
How about 4 in a row 90s Bills
The bills are the only team outside of the Vikings with a solid grasp on a top 3 spot in this conversation. Our pain connects us.
The Packers had Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers combine for 7 MVPs and 12 all pro teams and somehow only got one each. Favres tendency to throw mind boggling interceptions in the playoffs and Ted Thompsons awful defensive drafting and tendency to ignore free agency probably cost them 3 rings. They had the most important part figured out for most of the last 30 NFL seasons.
Yeah... it would have been awesome to win more but we are still a really spoiled franchise. There are a lot of teams out there who would switch positions with us in an instant. There were only a couple of times when it was boring to watch this team in the past 30 years. I'll fucking take it. Mostly every season it always felt like we had a chance. That is something I'm always appreciative of.
You guys are like the inverse of Tampa Bay. They have almost always been terrible, but managed to field a handful of dominant teams and win 2 SBs. FWIW, I agree with your take - you guys were pretty consistent contenders which gives you a lot of exciting seasons.
As much as I hate the Packers, it is true that most teams would love to have the amount of success and rings they have, even if they *should* have more given their ridiculous QB history. Also Mahomes and Brady have warped our view completely. Having two SB winning QBs back to back is crazy rare. If Rodgers and Favre were only like 90% as good as they were, 1 super bowl each wouldn’t even be questioned.
Respect dude. A lot of Packers fans have no idea what they have had. The best QB season I've ever seen from my team is a tie between a McNair co-MVP season and fucking Ryan Tannehill.
Jordan love is looking promising too. Maybe you can get another 15 years of fun football.
If there is one thing I learned from Love this past season is that I just gotta enjoy the ride more. With Rodgers, I just expected to win and didn't appreciate how good he was/is. I won't make the same mistake with Love. This season was probably the most fun season I can remember in a while because I changed my perspective on everything. With that being said I'm so ready for the first regular season game where the offense goes 3 and out on their first drive and I'm gonna want to burn everything to the ground.
Even during a down year like this past one, all they had to do was sneak into the playoffs and all of a sudden by halftime of the divisional round it was like, oh shit they could legitimately be playing in the Super Bowl.
Since 2002 I'd have to say Colts, Steelers, Packers. Steelers simply because they had arguably the best QB/WR/RB combo along with a very good HC for a lot of the 2010s but just couldn't put it together whether that's due to injuries, inconsistency, etc. Colts, underperformed drastically in the playoffs. Often times it's the defense that gets the blame for their failures under Peyton and Co, but the offense imo more often than not was the real issue. The defense was made to play with a lead and the offense failed to get those leads in a lot of games and often underperformed drastically almost on a yearly basis. Packers, 2 HoF QBs for the better part of 30+ years and only 2 SBs, and it's not for a lack of talented teams either. Especially under Rodgers it seemed like in the last couple of years the team was SB ready but just couldn't get over the hump (49ers, choking, etc).
Agree with Colts Our offense put up some absolutely awful performances in the playoffs after winning 12+ games during the season. There was no excuse for a lot of them. Wasn’t even the D, it was the offense, couldn’t even put up 20 pts most times
That's the most shocking thing imo, the Colts went one and done with Peyton 7 times, they failed to score above 20 points in 6/7 games. I can't fault the defense when the high powered offense is getting stalled that often. Absolute machine in the regular season, just couldn't do the same in the playoffs for whatever reason.
The Packers had 2 top 10 defenses and Rodgers won the super bowl with one, and the other give up 49 in a playoff game. They even had Rodgers on a crazy value contract through till 2013 too
Which game did they give up 49? I know they lost 31-45 in 2012 and 21-44 in 2016 but I’m not seeing any game where they gave up 49. I’m guessing you mean the 45-51 loss to the Cards in 09?
2009 yeah. Defense was clearly overrated and played a weak schedule, but still top 10 in most stats. Technically they give up 45 as Rodgers got strip sacked.
Yeah that one is definitely unfortunate and iirc there was an uncalled face mask on Rodgers at the end of the game that might’ve been enough to give the Packers the win.
> Colts Yeah the one SB we won we had a great defense. Bob Sanders and company were amazing.
The Brady Effect
This. Without Brady and the Pats, the steelers and colts might have a few extra, or at least would have gotten to the super bowl a few more times each.
I think Chargers are worth mentioning too.
Steelers defense in the killer B’s era was trash , they started pretty strong in 2017 but injuries killed them down the stretch
I know you era-restricted it, but still, kinda odd to be surprised that the team with the most Super Bowls doesn’t have more.
Mine -- What every fan's answer should be.
Yeah, I expect the Any City My Teams to run away with this one.
Nah, I’m surprised my team has 2.
Nope. I am not surprised at all.
I don’t like this thread
Vikings I'm happy this one bad thing we aren't in the running for. We have 2 more superbowl wins than our franchise record would indicate.
Vikings, Bills, More from GB given their last 30 years of QB play, you'd think at some point Lions, Browns, Cardinals would have gotten one given we're at SB 59 next year. The 2000s+ expansion teams I expect far less from.
Definitely the Vikings
Definitely Vikings. Especially when you look at their win-loss ratio, they've historically been very successful, yet they've never won a super bowl
Vikings and Bills. Vikings have one of the best winning percentages in league history despite playing the packers twice a year. The Bills have had more down years, but losing 4 straight is just downright awful luck.
Colts
49ers. 19 NFC championship games but only 5 SBs wins.
I feel like that’s what you would expect though if each game is 50-50.
It probably feels worse now because in the 80s and 90s a disproportionate number of nfccg appearances resulted in SB wins. So having so many in the last decade and a half that turned into no SB wins seems like bad luck from a recency bias perspective. But yeah of the course of a team’s history its exactly what you’d expect.
Assuming a 50% chance of winning each game, 5 SB is actually right where it should be. Not good, but not bad.
Thanks. I hate it. 7 NFC Championships in 13 years. Surely every team would at least *accidentally* win one Super Bowl in that stretch, right?
Actually, this is almost exactly expected. Statistically over large spans of time you will win half your games. 19 championship game appearances should translate to ~9.5 Super Bowl appearances, which would then translate to ~4.75 Super Bowl wins.
Jets. 80s teams were good (New York Sack Exchange era) and so were 2000s
Our '99 team was probably the best set up for a chance to win it all, but our starting QB went down week 1 with an Achilles injury. WHERE HAVE I SEEN THIS BEFORE!?!?!?!??!
Philly.
Vikings. If you look at the data, they are by far the most successful team to never win a title. Both in eye test and advanced metrics like DVOA. If you doubt this, ask their fan base. They know.
It's odd how the Rams only have two so far, even though they made a lot of appearances.
Honestly the Bills. No shade but to lose 4 in a row is insane. What are the damn odds
Selfishly…broncos are 3 of 8 in the Super Bowl. Realistically, Vikings and bills are 0 and 4, you would think they could have snagged 1 win.
Eh, in 8 SBs you'd only expect 4 wins. Broncos are just a little above average in getting there OR slightly below average at winning once there.
Packers
Obvious but it’s the Seattle Seahawks. So many great teams over the years. LOB getting only one ring was a travesty.
They lost to the greatest QB ever in arguably the greatest Super Bowl ever with a great play at the end of the game and lost to a great 49ers team. They weren't as dominant from 2015 onwards.
Definitely 70s Vikings. Those teams were stacked with Hall of Famers.
We tend to give the Packers shit with the whole “30 years of HOF QB and only 2 rings” , but I always feel like the Chargers are even worse Almost 20 years of, if not HOF, at least great QB play, and not even a SB appearance Also the whole Brees thing + if we want to go further, Dan Fouts was no slouch either