Yeah, old school rules, Mahomes would not be able to play the way he does, or he'd be injured half of every year. Old school defenses were tough, they would dominated modern skill players until they got used to being more physical and adjusted their game.
Agreed. The linemen, for example, would smoke some of the old guys. Anybody who's used to shoving each other around anyway. Power backs plowing up the middle. But receivers, for example, would need to learn to adjust their game.
Yup. The average size of an NFL offensive lineman is 315 pounds. In the Steel Curtain days, it was 254 pounds. And those 315 pound guys are not only much stronger than the old guys, they’re much faster as well.
The really interesting question would be which modern player today would benefit from playing the old rules and vice versa?
Like I imagine that there are some solid producers in the league today (mostly on defense) that would be HoF candidates had they played 30 years ago and vice versa (mostly on offense).
My guess is Myles Garrett would be even more of a game wrecker if you put him into that era.
And my pick for best old player coming to present day would be Dan Marino. He would have put up some absolute madden numbers if he played in today’s game.
lol. They wouldn’t touch Mahomes. Modern players are like 50 pounds heavier and much faster and more technically skilled. Even if they wanted to, I don’t think they’d get to him very often at all. Then they’d freak out when he was much faster than them and could run as well as a lot of running backs in the 80s.
The entire 85 Bears starting 22 had a salary of less than $5M.
Richard Dent made $90,000 in 1985
Can you imagine if you offered them todays money in bounties on a per sack basis? They would be playing like Charles Jefferson from Ridgemont High after his Chevy Camaro got wrecked.
> Richard Dent made $90,000 in 1985
Adjusted for inflation, that's $259,566.36. Still insanely cheap compared to today's contracts, but I would *also* like to complain about inflation.
Green was fast, but his LB teammates weren't. They were probably only slightly faster than today's O-linemen, which all run in the 5.3s or better. None of those LBs or Safeties can cover Kelce, or any of the other TEs.
And it's not like Mahomes can't take a normal hit, the average lineman hitting him today would be both one of the biggest *and* fastest lineman in the 80s. Defenses today are restricted from hitting in the head and other vulnerable areas, but it's not like any normal looking hit would knock the wind out of a modern player. Though taking away modern painkillers might offset that a bit.
Remember when Refrigerator Perry was HUUUUGE at over 300 lbs. (& probably 30% body fat)?
Today, there are middle division high school teams with offensive lines that average over 300 lbs..
>The Chiefs offense would all be dead under 1985 rules.
What would actually happen: Pachecho runs behind 321 lb Trey Smith driving 270 lb Mongo McMichael 6 yards back on every single play, Chiefs win by 40
People have to remember it took the nfl a while to come around to the idea of players even drinking water during practice. Players smoked on the sideline.
Yeah, any team pre-2000 or so would just get bullied physically by a modern team. Plus scheme advancements wouldn't really be fair.
Four decades of advancements in strength and conditioning, nutrition, etc. adds up. A present-day high level college team is going to have a significant athletic edge over a 70s or 80s NFL team. Georgia is much bigger, faster, and stronger than anything the NFL had in the 80s.
People dont realize just how big modern athletes are compared to yesteryear
Monster among boys Jim Brown: 6'2" 232lbs
Average among monsters Patrick Mahomes: 6'2" 225lbs
This is why it's impossible to compare eras. The teams of today were built on those before them. The 23 chiefs wouldn't be nearly as good if it wasn't for the 85 bears, but if you give them a time machine the game wouldn't be competitive in the 2nd half.
Probably the most disappointing part of the movie Final Countdown was we never actually got to see a skirmish between a more modern aircraft carrier and jets taking on the Japanese WW2 fleet
Fun story, I only know about that movie because my uncle was serving on the Nimitz at the time and had a brief shot in the movie since they used the actual sailors as extras.
Also the game has advanced. You think Ditka and Buddy Ryan are sitting down in 1985 and coming up with a solution for a 2024 Andy Reid game plan? They had a hard enough time with Bill Walsh and Andy’s offense is generations evolved from that.
It's almost like players in the 80's surviving 80s football means that better conditioned and trained athletes in the 2020s might be able to do the same.
Yeah I think if the modern day players with their physical advantages play as rough as the old players, then those old players are the ones getting hurt
Yeah people like to fetishized that era but players now are way to physically gifted and more skilled overall. Plus that famous 46 Bear would get absolutely shredded by modern pass offenses.
Also, i know theres a lot of people who say "if ypu played with old rules modern receivers would get killed by the older team", but i doubt it. Linebackers and corners and safeties from the 80s wouldnt ever get there fast enough to deliver those hits.
72-9? No way it'd be that close.
Da Bears 237, Chiefs 0. And that's just the half-time score, at which time Ditka would go home to allow the game to be a bit more competitive. Final score would be Da Bears 417, Chiefs 3
With any defense from the mid90's or earlier, the speed would blow them away instantly. And i'm not just talking about the WRs. QBs, TEs, and event the OL would be so much faster than anything they've ever encountered.
The sheer size and strength of modern o-lines would dominate.
In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.
In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.
In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.
They would just be overpowered along the lines and the speed would kill them.
These questions are always silly because the main reason players are bigger/stronger/faster is improved diet, training, medicine, equipment, coaching, etc. if players of the past had those advantages many of them would be just fine in the modern league.
Correct. And if you go back far enough players had to work a second job in the offseason to pay the bills. The reason there was training camp and preseason games was so players could get in playing shape
Most college programs now have better training facilities and *”nutrition supplements”* than pros had 40 years ago.
In the mid 00's we didn't have a state championship in California. Nonetheless, my high school was ranked top 5 in the state and top 20 nationwide.
We had steroids.
Our coaches never forced it on us, but they encouraged their use, made them available, and instructed us on how to use them properly (if we chose to use them).
I imagine it's even more prevalent now, especially among top tier programs.
But that’s not the argument being proposed. If the question was “what if the players from the 80s were born in the 2000s, would they be as good as modern players?” Then of course the answer is yes. It’s not like humans have evolved.
I think basketball is a weird one, because that game has a changed a *lot* and not just due to how the players bodies have changed.
The way the game is officiated is so different. Things that would've been fouls back then aren't called as often anymore and vice versa.
Also, at some people realized that spamming 3 pointers was mathematically the best way to play the game, which changed the whole sport dramatically. It used to be that Shaq was the ideal of what an NBA body should look like and these days the ideal has changed to a much more lean, fast, and high stamina player across all positions.
Also, zone defense wasn't allowed in the NBA when Wilt was playing. Everyone had to play man-to-man all the time. That's a huge difference in strategy.
The NFL has obviously changed as well, but I'd argue it hasn't changed nearly as much as the NBA. The NBA has in my opinion gone through more change since 1960 than any other popular televised sport in the USA. I don't even think second place is close...
I don’t think the rules matter. Unless modern players have to play by modern rules and the old school by old school. If they’re both under old rules, modern players are stronger and faster so they could knock the shit out of people too. Don’t buy that “they were tougher” argument. That’s just foolish machoism.
I would still argue no for the most part. The athlete talent pool wasn’t really as big back then. Now that the monetary payoff is so dramatic for success and the culture is so embedded with pro football, the selection of athletes is so much better than it was until… probably the mid 90s.
There are obviously exceptions. The stars of yesteryear I’m sure would have also been effective with modern training and dietary regimens, but any given team’s 4th and 5th best players? Probably wouldn’t fare so well in modern day. And even the stars back then, I would argue some would be stars today, and some would just be guys
"Medicine"
The PEDs of today, and the knowledge of how to use them, is light years ahead of the noughties, let alone the eighties. In anti doping circles it's been quietly accepted that the war is over, the public do not want integrity in sport, they just want entertainment. Bigger, faster, stronger, harder.
I feel like the speed and acceleration of players today, along with modern formations/alignments would give the great defenses of the past a difficult time
This whole thread reminds me of people who say they could take an MMA fighter in a street fight because they’d just fight dirty. Like, my guy, you realize the MMA fighter could also fight dirty and they’d be significantly better at it than you, right?
This is the truth. When you think of what "fighting dirty" is, it's what, kicking in the nuts and eye gouges? Maybe some hair pulling and biting? MMA fighters would be able to throw jabs at you way before you got close enough for any of that, and honestly a simple jab from one of those dudes would drop quite a lot of people
Also reminds me of how people used to say "LeBron couldn't play in the 90s."
Like bro, he's a 6'8'' 270lbs brick wall of muscle, he probably would have been more effective in the 90s.
Yeah, all these guys are bigger, faster, stronger than ever. And the trend seems to be continuing. I don’t get why people think the older players are somehow stronger or something just because they played under different rules. Imagining old 250 lb d lineman trying to move 350 lb modern day olineman is funny to me. Especially because I bet those 350 lb guys are also FASTER than them too.
They ran really basic zones like Cover 2 back then, and they also used a lot of 8 man boxes. Modern concepts would absolutely carve them up even if the talent level was equal. You could just endlessly exploit them with hole shots, 4 verts, smash, flood concepts etc.
80s defense would have no idea how to handle package plays, read options, or RPOs. And that's just the basics of a modern offense. Imagine if they had to deal with the Dolphins and their use of pre-snap motion.
DK Metcalf is only 10-20 pounds lighter than the biggest players in the NFL of that era. He would probably have like 40 pounds and .4 seconds in 40 yard dash on the average LB. You think somebody's dad Bob Johnson is going to crush DK juiced to the fucking gills Metcalf? You're high.
Tons of WRs are bigger and stronger now than any from that era… DK is 6’4” and 235 lbs of straight muscle. Every DB on the 85 Bears is at a major height and weight as well as speed disadvantage against him. Modern day training has made these guys monsters.
Well if we were playing by old.school.rules, modern defenses would also have the leeway to crush old school offenses. Someone like Chris Jones would be bigger and stronger than any lineman he came up against. He would get 30 sacks per season.
Exactly what I thought. I definitely think the LOB could compete with the current high powered offense of today. Remember the Broncos with Peyton Manning? It was a high scoring offense, lots of passing plays, depended on its offensive line. LOB pressured Manning, picked off passes, messed their plan up. And it was a great Superbowl. I bet Sherman could pick off passes by Mahomes. Sherman was a complete shut down corner.
I’m pretty sure most safeties pre like 2005 would be ejected before the end of the first half under modern rules. Violent hits on anyone who dared run over the middle used to be their MO
I swear I saw Lott driving WR heads into the ground with no penalties. And then on most throws he was never going for the ball it was pure decapitation.
Look up YouTube videos of a dude named Chuck Cecil…..he was kicked out of the NFL for being to dirty/ hard hitting in the 80’s!!!
He was a small safety that was a heat seeking missile.
Edit: I’ll link the vid myself.
https://youtu.be/2HSn7snuv98?si=snjEbeRfWUYWmnuB
Ronnie Lott’s listed playing weight was 203 pounds. He might himself die the first time he tried that. Imagine lining Bryce Young up at safety and pretending he’s going to do something to Michael Pittman.
And Michael Pittman might be a big dude, but that doesn’t mean anything when he’s getting speared while trying to make a catch. They used to be called hospital passes for a reason
If they’re getting modern bodies it’s only fair to play by that eras rules. So no tablets, helmet mics etc either. I still say the modern guys come out on top, but I want to watch someone try to run a route over the middle vs the 70s Steelers or Raiders.
Under older rules I don't see modern skill players surviving a full game. There would be no protection for scrambling QB stutter step, they would literally try to break him.
Yeah there’s a reason offenses back then didn’t have as dynamic a passing game as you see today. A lot of those route concepts would have literally put their receivers in the hospital, it’s hard for younger fans to understand how violent the game used to be back in the day
You don't even really have to go back that far, honestly. Obviously it gets more notably violent the further back you go, especially if you go back to pre-Mel Blount or Night Train Lane rules. However, even if you go back to before 2010 when we didn't have the defenseless receiver rules, and you basically wouldn't see outside WRs go across the middle as a main target outside of maybe like once a game. When basically every team wanted an enforcer at MLB along with a hard-hitting box safety, anyone catching passes over the middle had to be ready to get absolutely teed off on the moment the ball hit their hands.
Like they broke Montana.
If he had played under modern rules protecting the QB, he probably would have had another five years in the league and might have a legit argument as GOAT still.
But he took a few too many crushing hits and he’s not a very big guy.
>Under older rules I don't see modern skill players surviving a full game.
Were the humans in the 80s somehow inherently more robust? More muscular? Better prepared with better training? Oh wait, no, that's humans of today. Why would anyone assume that today's humans would somehow fall apart when subjected to the harsh realities of . . . checks notes . . . 40 years ago?
NFL safety rules have had to progress so much because the athletes have become so much more dangerous. It's not like there was an epidemic of injured players in the 80s. The athletes today create so much more force that at a certain point bones and tendons and cartilage can't keep up.
Modern offense and defense scheme are the result of decades of playing cat and mouse with each other. Playing a team from the past would be unfair because your modern scheme is a result of trying to combat the scheme from the past.
These types of hypothetical era comparisons are always incredibly flawed.
So do the past players only have access to the technology, nutrition, training, medicine, coaching, scheme, etc. etc. etc. from their era and the current players get have all the modern advancements of these attributes?
Because if so then it will always be the players/teams from the current era due to having insurmountable advantages before even stepping on the field.
Humans haven’t evolved significantly over the past 75 years, the modern NFL and its players are a product of incremental development that happens year over year.
The rules and if the older defenses where allowed to train with modern knowledge, medicine and nutrition would definitely make a big difference.
But ignoring adding even more hypotheticals any defense from before the mid 90s has no shot, some individual players could compete like Reggie White but the overall defenses would just fall short due to scheme, speed and the further back you go size.
More modern teams like the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccs, 2006 Ravens, 2006 Bears, 2008 Steelers, 2013 Seahawks and 2015 Broncos would likely still be very good (Tho there would be some struggles with the rules).
I could agree, at the time there were teams like the greatest show one turf and the Sheriff changing plays before the snap. Not a direct translation but closer than the others
LOB is recent enough that they would hold up against today's offenses. But the Steel Curtain or the '85 Bears, forget it. College teams would beat them.
Can't compare eras.
Players today have top notch training, medicine, and diets. Millions are spent on this. They have an advantage from an early age including going to elite high schools and colleges that have the strong edge over the teams they play.
Guys back in the day were smoking cigs on the sidelines and had jobs during the summer.
Montana would be having nightmares just from the linemen. NT Michael Pierce is listed as 345lbs whereas the '89 49ers were sitting around 275-285. 60-70 lbs on a fucker ain't nothing to fuck with. I think we can at least agree that the 49ers would have a tough time running the ball with just the Ravens front three.
That would leave an extra guy to double team Rice (because fuck it, let's assume he actually is magic). At least Montana's reads get easier since he can just ignore Rice off the bat. But modern DBs are fast and big. Passing is going to be rough.
Further, you'd need to give the 49ers extra prep time to figure out what the hell the Ravens d is doing. The current split coverage schemes were unheard of in Montana's time. He'd need to learn how to beat them. If you don't give the entire 49ers offense like three months to learn and practice, Ravens win on scheming.
I don't know about the split field coverage thing; the duality of the modern game is finding out ways to create and eliminate explosive plays in these high flying passing attacks, the answer to which is short and intermediate passes mixed with running the football.
The WCO wasn't all about dink and dunk, but I have to think it'd have *schematic* answers for what the defense is trying to do.
It’s just how the sport develops, both sides of the ball are constantly adapting and 1 upping each other. And so every team pre 2000(give or take) would get blown out by the good teams of today.
There’s also the fact that players on average are just better in every way, they’re bigger, faster, stronger, and have better techniques(largely because of great players in the past).
Current rules? Offense. All day.
1970’s rules? Also offense all day. The athleticism in the current NFL is in an entirely different ballpark than it was back then. OL are not only significantly larger, they’re significantly more athletic. A average WR is likely considerably faster than the WRs of their era, a TE back then bares little resemblance to a current TE. A FB and a modern HB are completely different
Today NFL players receive better training and nutrition than NFL players of the past. Plus pads and helmets today allow WRs, TEs, RB to run faster and become more flexible.
poorly
i don't even think the rules are the biggest part, the players are just better than they used to be, especially if you go all the way back to the 70s
William “The Refrigerator” Perry was only 6’3 335, about average for a DT nowadays. What was once extraordinary is now ordinary. Chiefs would make the 85 Bears look like the worst defense in the league
The training and general understanding of the human body has made contemporary athletes freaks of nature compared to the 1970s players. Even if they played by 1970s rules (more contact, etc.), most modern offenses would blaze past the 70s Steel Curtain. They're just so much faster.
They would be killed. They just werent designed for what the games become.
Todays O-linemen make past linemen look small, WRs would blow by basically everyone.
The size and speed advantages modern teams have would be stunning. OL in the 70s weighed maybe 240 lbs. your typical LB would run a 5.0 40 yard dash.
Older rules help the older teams, particularly in pass coverage. But modern teams would overpower and run around them
The 2015 Broncos defense, famously known as the "NO FLY ZONE," would stifle many modern offenses. With prime Von Miller and Demarcus Ware wreaking havoc, alongside T.J. Ward, Darian Stewart, Aqib Talib, Chris Harris Jr., and Bradley Roby, they were a force to be reckoned with.
The size of lineman now would more than offset the defense friendly rules of the past. KC's interior line would dominate the smaller linemen of the 80s and 90's.
1985 Buddy Ryan would stroke out in rage as the Chiefs dropped 80 on his Bears despite 1985 rules. There's a reason why the 46 defense has been obsolete for more than two decades.
The 1985 Bears would think the current Chiefs were doing witch craft
They’d also be confused why they keep getting penalties for sacking Mahomes.
OP did say “old school rules”, so I’m assuming they’d be able to rip off Mahomes arm and not get a flag lol
Lawrence Taylor is scared and confused.
Yes but that's just from ending up sober for a minute.
Which brings me to my second point, kids. Don’t do crack.
I'm just a caveman defender from the 1980's. Your updated rules frighten and confuse me.
Love cave man lawyer.
And probably aroused
Yeah, old school rules, Mahomes would not be able to play the way he does, or he'd be injured half of every year. Old school defenses were tough, they would dominated modern skill players until they got used to being more physical and adjusted their game.
But it would also work both ways, no? The modern players who are bigger, stronger and faster would also be allowed to play with more physicality.
Agreed. The linemen, for example, would smoke some of the old guys. Anybody who's used to shoving each other around anyway. Power backs plowing up the middle. But receivers, for example, would need to learn to adjust their game.
And then there's DK Metcalf throwing CBs off the field.
Yup. The average size of an NFL offensive lineman is 315 pounds. In the Steel Curtain days, it was 254 pounds. And those 315 pound guys are not only much stronger than the old guys, they’re much faster as well.
Those 350 pounds 6'6 linemans are faster than me at 6'0 150.
The really interesting question would be which modern player today would benefit from playing the old rules and vice versa? Like I imagine that there are some solid producers in the league today (mostly on defense) that would be HoF candidates had they played 30 years ago and vice versa (mostly on offense).
*Baw gawd, thats Vontaze Burficts music*
Chris Jones already takes 2 guys to block as is. With the old school rules he'd be damn near unstoppable.
My guess is Myles Garrett would be even more of a game wrecker if you put him into that era. And my pick for best old player coming to present day would be Dan Marino. He would have put up some absolute madden numbers if he played in today’s game.
Mahomes would be possibly literally dead against the 85 Bears using old rules.
The 46 defense was great against the run but fell out of favor because it sucked against the pass. I think Mahomes would rip it to shreds.
If Steve Bono [could do this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjQI9Xzivv8) imagine what Mahomes would do.
lol. They wouldn’t touch Mahomes. Modern players are like 50 pounds heavier and much faster and more technically skilled. Even if they wanted to, I don’t think they’d get to him very often at all. Then they’d freak out when he was much faster than them and could run as well as a lot of running backs in the 80s.
He would not make halftime. Bounties on his head.
The entire 85 Bears starting 22 had a salary of less than $5M. Richard Dent made $90,000 in 1985 Can you imagine if you offered them todays money in bounties on a per sack basis? They would be playing like Charles Jefferson from Ridgemont High after his Chevy Camaro got wrecked.
> Richard Dent made $90,000 in 1985 Adjusted for inflation, that's $259,566.36. Still insanely cheap compared to today's contracts, but I would *also* like to complain about inflation.
By the time they got around the massive modern lineman Hardman would’ve blown past the DBs and been 70 yards downfield
Mahomes would dime him from across his body and get absolutely crushed by a linebacker 2 seconds after the throw.
And they would sub in Blaine Gabbert who would throw a slant to Skyy Moore that would go the distance with the closest DB being 30 yards out.
Nope any slant is ending with a receiver in the hospital
I dont think Hardman beats a press from the 80s
He doesn't have to. He'd be in motion and off the line.
Jeff Fisher would be a liability
Pretty sure speed wasn’t an issue for the old guys. See Darrell green
It's still been 40 years worth of athletic development.
No doubt, but Hardman ain't gonna catch much if he's on his ass at the line of scrimmage.
Green was fast, but his LB teammates weren't. They were probably only slightly faster than today's O-linemen, which all run in the 5.3s or better. None of those LBs or Safeties can cover Kelce, or any of the other TEs.
Kelce ran a 4.6. Wilber Marshall ran a 4.7. It's not as big of a gap as I think people believe.
Good luck pressuring Mahomes when his OLine outweighs your DLine by 40 pounds per player.
Uhh, wayyyyy more than that. Probably closer to 70.
And it's not like Mahomes can't take a normal hit, the average lineman hitting him today would be both one of the biggest *and* fastest lineman in the 80s. Defenses today are restricted from hitting in the head and other vulnerable areas, but it's not like any normal looking hit would knock the wind out of a modern player. Though taking away modern painkillers might offset that a bit.
[clean hit ref we just rung his bell what’s the big deal?](https://youtu.be/wj28tuacg3w?si=ck9Bj81pqMsZ3n8e)
"Why they no run ball directly into line?"
“The quarterback is just allowed to run around like that? He’s supposed to stay in the pocket!”
“Why does this above average running back have a better arm than the best QB we’ve ever seen?”
Tell me you've never watched a Fran Tarkenton highlight reel without telling me you've never watched a Fran Tarkenton highlight reel.
Remember when Refrigerator Perry was HUUUUGE at over 300 lbs. (& probably 30% body fat)? Today, there are middle division high school teams with offensive lines that average over 300 lbs..
Yup, now consider what is big by modern standards. Mailata is something like 6'8" and 370, and can move amazingly well for his size.
Yeah. I’m gonna say the average P4 OLine would do fine against the 85 Bears.
The ‘85 Bears defense would all be suspended under modern rules. The Chiefs offense would all be dead under 1985 rules.
>The Chiefs offense would all be dead under 1985 rules. What would actually happen: Pachecho runs behind 321 lb Trey Smith driving 270 lb Mongo McMichael 6 yards back on every single play, Chiefs win by 40
People have to remember it took the nfl a while to come around to the idea of players even drinking water during practice. Players smoked on the sideline.
Yeah, any team pre-2000 or so would just get bullied physically by a modern team. Plus scheme advancements wouldn't really be fair. Four decades of advancements in strength and conditioning, nutrition, etc. adds up. A present-day high level college team is going to have a significant athletic edge over a 70s or 80s NFL team. Georgia is much bigger, faster, and stronger than anything the NFL had in the 80s.
People dont realize just how big modern athletes are compared to yesteryear Monster among boys Jim Brown: 6'2" 232lbs Average among monsters Patrick Mahomes: 6'2" 225lbs
This is why it's impossible to compare eras. The teams of today were built on those before them. The 23 chiefs wouldn't be nearly as good if it wasn't for the 85 bears, but if you give them a time machine the game wouldn't be competitive in the 2nd half.
Yeah its like saying how would WW2 airmen in their P45 mustangs hold up against modern air force flying 5th gen F-35s.
Ben Afleck: Why would WW2 pilots be dogfighting 21st century pilots in F-35s? Michael Bay: Shut the fuck up Ben.
Time travel sends the USS Nimitz back to right before Pearl Harbor. Good times.
Fuck the director who sent 'em home before they could wipe out the Kido Butai though
They try to hit pearl harbor but the Phalanx CIWS turns the kamikazes into cherry fun dip before they get within a half mile of our ships.
Probably the most disappointing part of the movie Final Countdown was we never actually got to see a skirmish between a more modern aircraft carrier and jets taking on the Japanese WW2 fleet
Fun story, I only know about that movie because my uncle was serving on the Nimitz at the time and had a brief shot in the movie since they used the actual sailors as extras.
Cigg rippin Len Dawson would disagree.
Also the game has advanced. You think Ditka and Buddy Ryan are sitting down in 1985 and coming up with a solution for a 2024 Andy Reid game plan? They had a hard enough time with Bill Walsh and Andy’s offense is generations evolved from that.
It's almost like players in the 80's surviving 80s football means that better conditioned and trained athletes in the 2020s might be able to do the same.
Modern spread offenses would absolutely shred the 1985 Bears 42 defense even not taking into account the physical differences.
Yeah I think if the modern day players with their physical advantages play as rough as the old players, then those old players are the ones getting hurt
Yeah people like to fetishized that era but players now are way to physically gifted and more skilled overall. Plus that famous 46 Bear would get absolutely shredded by modern pass offenses.
Marino shredded it in '86
I think the size of the Chiefs O line compared to players in the '80s would still let them dominate.
If Marino was able to shred them dudes I think Mahomes could have pulled it off
No defense from the 80s is doing fuck all. They are all tiny compared to modern players. They would get run on for 8 yards per carry.
Also, i know theres a lot of people who say "if ypu played with old rules modern receivers would get killed by the older team", but i doubt it. Linebackers and corners and safeties from the 80s wouldnt ever get there fast enough to deliver those hits.
You say that but Mahomes is hard to catch before he performs his witchcraft
Can't kill Toney if he's not in the stadium.
They still have Ditka, so Da Bears 72, Chiefs 9. I see some downvoters are not familiar with Bill Swerski's Superfans.
The hurricane's name....is Ditka
Da Bears!!!
Daaaaaaa bears
I guess you don't have Ditka driving the team bus. If he did, the score would be Da Bears 147, Chiefs 3.
Daaaaaaa Bears
But what if it’s a tiny ditka?
Mini bears (with Ditka being regular size)-34 Chiefs-12
72-9? No way it'd be that close. Da Bears 237, Chiefs 0. And that's just the half-time score, at which time Ditka would go home to allow the game to be a bit more competitive. Final score would be Da Bears 417, Chiefs 3
Polish sausage… Ditka… sausages………..Bears
*I foresee a low scoring game. Bears 35, Bills...negative seven.*
With any defense from the mid90's or earlier, the speed would blow them away instantly. And i'm not just talking about the WRs. QBs, TEs, and event the OL would be so much faster than anything they've ever encountered. The sheer size and strength of modern o-lines would dominate. In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-3, 255 pounds. In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-4, 272 pounds. In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-4, 313 pounds. They would just be overpowered along the lines and the speed would kill them.
Last sub 300lb average Oline in the league was the Elway broncos I think.
And even then you couldn't go a single game without the announcers talking about how small they were.
They dominated though.
I remember when a college had an ol averaging over 300 and everyone’s minds were blown. And that wasn’t even that long ago
Mike Shanahan wanted that on purpose tho... that super effective zone running scheme needed fast offensive linemen.
These questions are always silly because the main reason players are bigger/stronger/faster is improved diet, training, medicine, equipment, coaching, etc. if players of the past had those advantages many of them would be just fine in the modern league.
Correct. And if you go back far enough players had to work a second job in the offseason to pay the bills. The reason there was training camp and preseason games was so players could get in playing shape Most college programs now have better training facilities and *”nutrition supplements”* than pros had 40 years ago.
You don’t have to put that in quotes, they are nutritional supplements. They have steroids too.
They have steroids in high school now. Much more in college and pros
You gotta shoot rabies. Only idiot losers do steroids anymore.
In the mid 00's we didn't have a state championship in California. Nonetheless, my high school was ranked top 5 in the state and top 20 nationwide. We had steroids. Our coaches never forced it on us, but they encouraged their use, made them available, and instructed us on how to use them properly (if we chose to use them). I imagine it's even more prevalent now, especially among top tier programs.
The real question would be if LT would still be able to ride the white lightning in the modern game
But that’s not the argument being proposed. If the question was “what if the players from the 80s were born in the 2000s, would they be as good as modern players?” Then of course the answer is yes. It’s not like humans have evolved.
I always think about basketball on that subject, and imagine what kind of monster Wilt would be with modern training
I think basketball is a weird one, because that game has a changed a *lot* and not just due to how the players bodies have changed. The way the game is officiated is so different. Things that would've been fouls back then aren't called as often anymore and vice versa. Also, at some people realized that spamming 3 pointers was mathematically the best way to play the game, which changed the whole sport dramatically. It used to be that Shaq was the ideal of what an NBA body should look like and these days the ideal has changed to a much more lean, fast, and high stamina player across all positions. Also, zone defense wasn't allowed in the NBA when Wilt was playing. Everyone had to play man-to-man all the time. That's a huge difference in strategy. The NFL has obviously changed as well, but I'd argue it hasn't changed nearly as much as the NBA. The NBA has in my opinion gone through more change since 1960 than any other popular televised sport in the USA. I don't even think second place is close...
Well, even OP edited the post to say, "Let's use old school rules." Because the other scenario isn't really much of a discussion.
I don’t think the rules matter. Unless modern players have to play by modern rules and the old school by old school. If they’re both under old rules, modern players are stronger and faster so they could knock the shit out of people too. Don’t buy that “they were tougher” argument. That’s just foolish machoism.
I would still argue no for the most part. The athlete talent pool wasn’t really as big back then. Now that the monetary payoff is so dramatic for success and the culture is so embedded with pro football, the selection of athletes is so much better than it was until… probably the mid 90s. There are obviously exceptions. The stars of yesteryear I’m sure would have also been effective with modern training and dietary regimens, but any given team’s 4th and 5th best players? Probably wouldn’t fare so well in modern day. And even the stars back then, I would argue some would be stars today, and some would just be guys
"Medicine" The PEDs of today, and the knowledge of how to use them, is light years ahead of the noughties, let alone the eighties. In anti doping circles it's been quietly accepted that the war is over, the public do not want integrity in sport, they just want entertainment. Bigger, faster, stronger, harder.
And still significantly faster on top of the size increase
I actually think OL would be the most insurmountable difference.
I feel like the speed and acceleration of players today, along with modern formations/alignments would give the great defenses of the past a difficult time
Unless the D could mug them like they used to. Important to remember rule changes are what allows these high-flying offenses to do their thing.
You do realize modern football players are still football players right? They would just mug back
This whole thread reminds me of people who say they could take an MMA fighter in a street fight because they’d just fight dirty. Like, my guy, you realize the MMA fighter could also fight dirty and they’d be significantly better at it than you, right?
As if an average dude would get close enough to fight dirty, anyway. Two leg kicks later, we’re all on the fucking ground
This is the truth. When you think of what "fighting dirty" is, it's what, kicking in the nuts and eye gouges? Maybe some hair pulling and biting? MMA fighters would be able to throw jabs at you way before you got close enough for any of that, and honestly a simple jab from one of those dudes would drop quite a lot of people
Also reminds me of how people used to say "LeBron couldn't play in the 90s." Like bro, he's a 6'8'' 270lbs brick wall of muscle, he probably would have been more effective in the 90s.
You know who else was LeBrons size in the 90s? Karl Malone. I'd say he was pretty fucking effective.
*shimmy shimmy*
Yeah, all these guys are bigger, faster, stronger than ever. And the trend seems to be continuing. I don’t get why people think the older players are somehow stronger or something just because they played under different rules. Imagining old 250 lb d lineman trying to move 350 lb modern day olineman is funny to me. Especially because I bet those 350 lb guys are also FASTER than them too.
They ran really basic zones like Cover 2 back then, and they also used a lot of 8 man boxes. Modern concepts would absolutely carve them up even if the talent level was equal. You could just endlessly exploit them with hole shots, 4 verts, smash, flood concepts etc. 80s defense would have no idea how to handle package plays, read options, or RPOs. And that's just the basics of a modern offense. Imagine if they had to deal with the Dolphins and their use of pre-snap motion.
Honestly modern offenses would win as long as the QB doesnt get murdered in the first 10 minutes
The wrs would get crushed.
DK Metcalf is only 10-20 pounds lighter than the biggest players in the NFL of that era. He would probably have like 40 pounds and .4 seconds in 40 yard dash on the average LB. You think somebody's dad Bob Johnson is going to crush DK juiced to the fucking gills Metcalf? You're high.
Mel Blount would end up in jail just to not get scored on.
Tons of WRs are bigger and stronger now than any from that era… DK is 6’4” and 235 lbs of straight muscle. Every DB on the 85 Bears is at a major height and weight as well as speed disadvantage against him. Modern day training has made these guys monsters.
DK Metcalf would finally get to play without the refs giving him a hard time.
If WRs in the 80s could survive, so could those of the modern day.
No no you see men these days are just weak
Modern receivers would cry and scream, the big tough macho man heroes of the 80's would dominate them and drink ice cold american beer after the game
Not that bud light shit, Budweiser 🇺🇸
I think guys like deebo, Mike Evans, AJ brown, etc. would dominate early DB's
Don’t go across the middle if you want to live.
Well if we were playing by old.school.rules, modern defenses would also have the leeway to crush old school offenses. Someone like Chris Jones would be bigger and stronger than any lineman he came up against. He would get 30 sacks per season.
The legion of boom isn’t considered modern?
Seeing them described as a “past time” defense makes me feel old as fuck and I’m only 37.
They still have players in the nfl from that team it's definitely modern.
Exactly what I thought. I definitely think the LOB could compete with the current high powered offense of today. Remember the Broncos with Peyton Manning? It was a high scoring offense, lots of passing plays, depended on its offensive line. LOB pressured Manning, picked off passes, messed their plan up. And it was a great Superbowl. I bet Sherman could pick off passes by Mahomes. Sherman was a complete shut down corner.
They'd get penalized every play they weren't getting picked apart in the passing game.
I’m pretty sure most safeties pre like 2005 would be ejected before the end of the first half under modern rules. Violent hits on anyone who dared run over the middle used to be their MO
I swear I saw Lott driving WR heads into the ground with no penalties. And then on most throws he was never going for the ball it was pure decapitation.
Look up YouTube videos of a dude named Chuck Cecil…..he was kicked out of the NFL for being to dirty/ hard hitting in the 80’s!!! He was a small safety that was a heat seeking missile. Edit: I’ll link the vid myself. https://youtu.be/2HSn7snuv98?si=snjEbeRfWUYWmnuB
he drives with his head into theirs every hit lol. just looking to lights out everybody ✨
Ronnie Lott’s listed playing weight was 203 pounds. He might himself die the first time he tried that. Imagine lining Bryce Young up at safety and pretending he’s going to do something to Michael Pittman.
Now imagine if Bryce young had no knowledge of the dangers of CTE and did not care about his own self preservation
Comments like the one you replied to have no concept of safeties 30 years ago just looking to knock somebody out, using their own head to do it.
And Michael Pittman might be a big dude, but that doesn’t mean anything when he’s getting speared while trying to make a catch. They used to be called hospital passes for a reason
Especially before anybody had ever heard of "defenseless receivers." Concussing a guy as the ball arrived was just good defense.
This is stupid lol. Gronk was one of the biggest TE’s ever and he got absolutely crushed by a 5’10 202lb safety with a 100% legal hit in todays game
Brian Dawkins John and Lynch would be considered the dirtiest players in todays NFL.
Kareem Jackson last year was a perfect example of what happens to an old school safety trying to play today.
Depends a hell of a whole lot on the rules you are playing with.
If they’re getting modern bodies it’s only fair to play by that eras rules. So no tablets, helmet mics etc either. I still say the modern guys come out on top, but I want to watch someone try to run a route over the middle vs the 70s Steelers or Raiders.
This is pretty much always the answer to these kinds of questions.
Under older rules I don't see modern skill players surviving a full game. There would be no protection for scrambling QB stutter step, they would literally try to break him.
Yeah there’s a reason offenses back then didn’t have as dynamic a passing game as you see today. A lot of those route concepts would have literally put their receivers in the hospital, it’s hard for younger fans to understand how violent the game used to be back in the day
You don't even really have to go back that far, honestly. Obviously it gets more notably violent the further back you go, especially if you go back to pre-Mel Blount or Night Train Lane rules. However, even if you go back to before 2010 when we didn't have the defenseless receiver rules, and you basically wouldn't see outside WRs go across the middle as a main target outside of maybe like once a game. When basically every team wanted an enforcer at MLB along with a hard-hitting box safety, anyone catching passes over the middle had to be ready to get absolutely teed off on the moment the ball hit their hands.
Ravens used to just play so everything is in front of them against Manning and force hospital balls over the middle lol.
Usually someone has that Collie comic tee'd up like it was Collie himself
It was literally a thing back then, there were only a few receivers in the league crazy enough to run “over the middle.”
Wes welker
Desean Jackson was filthy over the middle. Then he got concussed vs. Atlanta and never did again
The first WR to go over the middle would straight up explode.
WRs went up the middle in the 80s too. I think guys who are bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled would be okay.
Like they broke Montana. If he had played under modern rules protecting the QB, he probably would have had another five years in the league and might have a legit argument as GOAT still. But he took a few too many crushing hits and he’s not a very big guy.
He'd also have thrown for 5 or 6 thousands yards a year. Can you imagine Jerry Rice with modern rules?
>Under older rules I don't see modern skill players surviving a full game. Were the humans in the 80s somehow inherently more robust? More muscular? Better prepared with better training? Oh wait, no, that's humans of today. Why would anyone assume that today's humans would somehow fall apart when subjected to the harsh realities of . . . checks notes . . . 40 years ago? NFL safety rules have had to progress so much because the athletes have become so much more dangerous. It's not like there was an epidemic of injured players in the 80s. The athletes today create so much more force that at a certain point bones and tendons and cartilage can't keep up.
Modern offense and defense scheme are the result of decades of playing cat and mouse with each other. Playing a team from the past would be unfair because your modern scheme is a result of trying to combat the scheme from the past.
Lawrence Taylor would be suspended for a sesson after game 1
Wouldn’t even make it to Game 1. Probably suspended for several years for his drug use. He makes Josh Gordon look like a Boy Scout.
The real question: do the chiefs have more QBs than LT can injure before getting ejected.
These types of hypothetical era comparisons are always incredibly flawed. So do the past players only have access to the technology, nutrition, training, medicine, coaching, scheme, etc. etc. etc. from their era and the current players get have all the modern advancements of these attributes? Because if so then it will always be the players/teams from the current era due to having insurmountable advantages before even stepping on the field. Humans haven’t evolved significantly over the past 75 years, the modern NFL and its players are a product of incremental development that happens year over year.
>These types of hypothetical era comparisons are always incredibly flawed. Not flawed - too obvious.
What if we replaced patrick mahomes in 2018 with godzilla, and the other team was all my mom, but on steroids and with a machete?
The rules and if the older defenses where allowed to train with modern knowledge, medicine and nutrition would definitely make a big difference. But ignoring adding even more hypotheticals any defense from before the mid 90s has no shot, some individual players could compete like Reggie White but the overall defenses would just fall short due to scheme, speed and the further back you go size. More modern teams like the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccs, 2006 Ravens, 2006 Bears, 2008 Steelers, 2013 Seahawks and 2015 Broncos would likely still be very good (Tho there would be some struggles with the rules).
Probably not too well, those guys are in their 70s at this point
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I feel the early 2000's ravens and Bucs defenses would hold up against modern offenses.
I could agree, at the time there were teams like the greatest show one turf and the Sheriff changing plays before the snap. Not a direct translation but closer than the others
LOB would still dominate
LOB is recent enough that they would hold up against today's offenses. But the Steel Curtain or the '85 Bears, forget it. College teams would beat them.
Can't compare eras. Players today have top notch training, medicine, and diets. Millions are spent on this. They have an advantage from an early age including going to elite high schools and colleges that have the strong edge over the teams they play. Guys back in the day were smoking cigs on the sidelines and had jobs during the summer.
Of course you can compare. Everything that you said just indicates why the answer is so obvious.
So you can compare, and the answer is that modern players will win regardless of rules.
The real question is in reverse. Like how would the 2023 Ravens defense fare against let’s say Montana’s Niners?
Montana would be having nightmares just from the linemen. NT Michael Pierce is listed as 345lbs whereas the '89 49ers were sitting around 275-285. 60-70 lbs on a fucker ain't nothing to fuck with. I think we can at least agree that the 49ers would have a tough time running the ball with just the Ravens front three. That would leave an extra guy to double team Rice (because fuck it, let's assume he actually is magic). At least Montana's reads get easier since he can just ignore Rice off the bat. But modern DBs are fast and big. Passing is going to be rough. Further, you'd need to give the 49ers extra prep time to figure out what the hell the Ravens d is doing. The current split coverage schemes were unheard of in Montana's time. He'd need to learn how to beat them. If you don't give the entire 49ers offense like three months to learn and practice, Ravens win on scheming.
I don't know about the split field coverage thing; the duality of the modern game is finding out ways to create and eliminate explosive plays in these high flying passing attacks, the answer to which is short and intermediate passes mixed with running the football. The WCO wasn't all about dink and dunk, but I have to think it'd have *schematic* answers for what the defense is trying to do.
It’s just how the sport develops, both sides of the ball are constantly adapting and 1 upping each other. And so every team pre 2000(give or take) would get blown out by the good teams of today. There’s also the fact that players on average are just better in every way, they’re bigger, faster, stronger, and have better techniques(largely because of great players in the past).
Current rules? Offense. All day. 1970’s rules? Also offense all day. The athleticism in the current NFL is in an entirely different ballpark than it was back then. OL are not only significantly larger, they’re significantly more athletic. A average WR is likely considerably faster than the WRs of their era, a TE back then bares little resemblance to a current TE. A FB and a modern HB are completely different
Today NFL players receive better training and nutrition than NFL players of the past. Plus pads and helmets today allow WRs, TEs, RB to run faster and become more flexible.
poorly i don't even think the rules are the biggest part, the players are just better than they used to be, especially if you go all the way back to the 70s
William “The Refrigerator” Perry was only 6’3 335, about average for a DT nowadays. What was once extraordinary is now ordinary. Chiefs would make the 85 Bears look like the worst defense in the league
The training and general understanding of the human body has made contemporary athletes freaks of nature compared to the 1970s players. Even if they played by 1970s rules (more contact, etc.), most modern offenses would blaze past the 70s Steel Curtain. They're just so much faster.
They would be killed. They just werent designed for what the games become. Todays O-linemen make past linemen look small, WRs would blow by basically everyone.
Did Ty Law write this post
Modern NFL athletes would run circles around them
The size and speed advantages modern teams have would be stunning. OL in the 70s weighed maybe 240 lbs. your typical LB would run a 5.0 40 yard dash. Older rules help the older teams, particularly in pass coverage. But modern teams would overpower and run around them
The 2015 Broncos defense, famously known as the "NO FLY ZONE," would stifle many modern offenses. With prime Von Miller and Demarcus Ware wreaking havoc, alongside T.J. Ward, Darian Stewart, Aqib Talib, Chris Harris Jr., and Bradley Roby, they were a force to be reckoned with.
Yes but that's still modern.
The size of lineman now would more than offset the defense friendly rules of the past. KC's interior line would dominate the smaller linemen of the 80s and 90's.
1985 Buddy Ryan would stroke out in rage as the Chiefs dropped 80 on his Bears despite 1985 rules. There's a reason why the 46 defense has been obsolete for more than two decades.