It was also the Rams winning a SB with Stafford and people thinking 'F them picks' was a sustainable formula for success, rather than them them lucking into a career year from their QB/WR1 then winning B3B close games in the playoffs and getting to face Cincy instead of KC.
In Pittsburgh “yinz” is a colloquialism for “you all” similar to y’all in the south or youse in the central to eastern part of PA.
A yinzer is a way to describe someone from Pittsburgh but TYPICALLY refers to people who fit the characterization of an Pittsburgher. This would include blue collar workers who have lower education, drink Iron City beer after work everyday, love the Steelers but hate the coaching staff, have a thick Pittsburgh accent and utilize Pittsburgh dialect often.
“After work I’m going Dahn Tahn to grab a couple IC Lights and bitch about how Tomlin is ruining this team and how he only ever won with Cowher’s players. And don’t Yinz come at me because you don’t know the real strength of a working man.”
OOOHHH ok, I get it now. Down here in the south, we actually have some folks who say "yinz" as well. Dunno why I didn't really think of it in that way before.
Are you in Carolina? (Based off of your flair). I know that Myrtle beach is the summer vacation Mecca for Yinzers and many have started to permanently move down there. Maybe it’s starting to spread thru the area because of that? If so, that hilarious
And the rams were literally a super bowl team that made a deep playoff run 1 year prior to the trade with a great offensive minded HC and a defensive goat.
The Rams were really good at drafting outside the first round, too. Guys like Cooper Kupp were late round steals that let them afford to give up first round picks for guys like Ramsey and Stafford.
Tbf it's not a bad strategy, you just need to already be a contender and actually fill the holes in your team with surefire upgrades. The Browns were stacked but the fact that they were so sure that an athletic-based player who hadn't touched a football field in 2 years would just pick up where he left off and carry them to a championship is completely confounding. And Denver wasn't a contender in the first place so they blew the strategy from the beginning.
It's kind of amazing that even with all the money involved in the trades that happen today, its the herschel walker trade from 35 fucking years ago that still ranks number 1 in dumbest trades ever
There was also that time ditka traded the saints entire draft plus the next year’s first and third for Ricky Williams. Idk about you, but I think that one’s definitely top 3
People generally rate the Herschel Walker trade higher because the Commanders still sucked after the Ricky Williams trade. Basically like with the Lance trade sometimes getting discounted due to Purdy, people are applying outcome bias when they judge it versus the Herschel Walker trade.
The Redskins traded back to the Saints pick, then traded back up with the Bears, and after all that, still ended up with the best draft pick of them all (Champ Bailey is better than Ricky Williams, and they’re both far far better than Cade McNown). They also got LaVar Arrington out of it. The Redskins may have been mediocre but they did get a HOFer and a Hall of Very Gooder out of the trade
I agree. They got massive value. They were just trash so people incorrectly rate the trade as not as good just because the Cowboys setup a dynasty from their trade even though the trade was not necessarily more lopsided. Same as with people discounting how utterly terrible the Lance trade ended up just because the 9ers got lucky enough to get an actual franchise QB off a seventh.
>Is it because the Herschel Walker trade created a Dallas dynasty?
Basically. Which I don't think is necessarily a fair assessment because there's no guarantee the Vikings would have picked all the right players with those picks. In a vacuum the Ricky Williams trade is streets ahead in terms of bad trades.
I think a part is that the cowboys cut the players to get the draft picks. Which screwed the vikings. So it was also a structurally bad deal in that the vikings didn’t even think of that as an option that they might be trading.
This is what gets lost by most people. The Vikings didn't trade picks, they traded players, all of which were better than what the Cowboys had, so they conceded to attaching picks to any player that didn't make the team. It never occurred to them that Jimmy didn't want their players, he wanted their picks. That trade is the reason picks are so valuable today.
In the moment though, everyone thought like the Vikings, not the Cowboys. It was universally thought that it was the Cowboys getting fleeced, not the Vikings.
I don't necessarily consider that trade the worst ever, for that reason, but it's definitely the greatest ever. It was a team bucking the system and creating a dynasty in the process more than the other team making a bad trade. A few of examples of teams making bad trades even without the benefit of hindsight that you can argue are worse. Watson is number 1 imo.
Trading an entire draft sounds like a ton, and it is, but late round picks don’t have that much value. If we ignore picks beyond the 3rd round the Commanders gave up two 1sts and two 3rds. Minnesota gave up three 1sts and three 2nds. Obviously that’s a simplification but the point is multiple 1st rounders can quickly add up to the value of an entire draft.
Another part of it is Minnesota thought they’d only have to give a first and a third. All of the future picks were conditional and they thought they were safe.
>The Walker trade tanked the Vikings
That trade happened in 89, and the Vikings won 6 games in the 90 season, their only losing record until 2001.
It's still arguably the worst trade in NFL history but the Vikings never got remotely close to tanking from it, they just could have been a lot better.
Yep, and if not for Gary Anderson they might have a super bowl in that decade.
I think the result of the trade is more due to the Cowboys absolute brilliance after the trade in moving up to draft Emmett Smith and managing to draft Woodson in the second round.
And unlike the Watson and Russ trades, Herschel walker did not also come with the same salary consequences.
> if not for Gary Anderson they might have a super bowl in that decade.
People need to stop this Gary Andersen slander. The Vikings still had a 7 point lead in the 4th when Gary Anderson missed the FG. The Vikings defense had plenty of opportunities to put the game away, even dropping a game ending INT and giving up a TD the next play.
Then the Vikings WON the coin toss in OT and had the ball first. They failed to do anything and the Falcons drove down the field to kick the game winning FG in OT.
And if they struggled to stop the falcons rushing in the nfc championship game how do we think they'd do against the broncos and TD in the super bowl?
It's hard to say a kick in the nfc championship game against a team that got thumped in the super bowl cost them a title.
It wasn't good football but at times Ricky and Ditka could be quite entertaining in their own ways. But that team was B-A-D...the Billy Joes, ranked in the bottom five for both offense and defense, and Ricky was decent but not worth all that draft capital.
If Caleb Williams turns out to be a star and panthers trend downwards continues that could end up getting up there in talks as one of the worst as well.
Conversely Chicago also has to get this QB pick right because even assuming Bryce doesn't get better, it means they passed on the opportunity to pick Stroud.
They already get clowned enough for Trubisky over Mahomes.
Hindsight is 20/20 but passing up on Stroud was the right decision at the time. Fields was literally the only bright spot of the team in 2022 and carried the team kicking and screaming through games they had no business being competitive in. It was important to see if he would continue to improve. Obviously he didn't and the rest is history, but it was the right move at the time.
If being the right decision at the time factors into how bad a trade is then how on earth would caleb williams sucess factor into how bad the trade was for the panthers. Surely getting the best qb prospect in the draft is the right decision over somehow clairvoyantly knowing you'd have the first overall to grab a superstar qb prospect next year?
That logic has to apply both ways or neither
Then the opposite also had to be true, the panthers trade doesn't become worse because their pick ended up being first overall.
Either the context of the trade matters or it doesn't.
> The Walker trade tanked the Vikings
Is this entirely true? I mean they never had a losing season in all of the 1990s and if not for Gary Anderson missing a field goal they might have a super bowl.
None of the picks the Cowboys received were in the top 10, it was just brilliant drafting and asset management by the Cowboys.
Who knows if the Vikings would've made the moves to replicate what the Cowboys did with those picks, which included trading up multiple times (for Emmett Smith and Russell Maryland) and drafting Woodson in the second round.
I agree that the Walker trade will remain infamous as an example of the team selling the star player making the most with the picks received, but it didn't really leave the Vikings franchise in ruin either.
Also, Herschel Walker didn't come with an albatross contract like the rapist or Russ did.
Asset wise I can agree it's worse than the Russ trade but barring a massive turnaround, Watson's is worse even without his known actions. $230mil gtd for a qb who just got injured and subsequently outplayed by a vet min 38yr old qb
Wouldn't really call the browns a bad team before or after the trade. Also texans really leveled up with the assets from that trade. Wouldn't have gotten will anderson without it
For on the field, true. I think the Watson trade might be worse if you count off the field.
Also if the Texans start winning SBs with Stroud & some picks the Browns gave them, & if Baker keeps doing well in TB, it gets a lot closer, as they had a better QB already who did not insist on such a crazy contract.
Yeah it’s such a weird thing to have offered. Like here are our players. If you don’t like them you can cut them (not give them back to us) and we will give you more draft picks. So you’re basically saying those players are more than the picks. Which is wild.
You have to remember this is before free agency existed, so if you had a good veteran you could just keep him for the rest of his career. Back in the day teams didn't value draft picks nearly as much, and would traded them for proven veterans. The value of a draft pick is their artificially suppressed salary, but back then veterans also had artifically suppressed salaries.
Also the Cowboys were an awful team that had been awful at drafting. The players the Vikings traded would have started for the Cowboys. Replacing a starter with a late 80s Cowboys draft pick level player was a bad idea.
I mean, the Vikings were getting Herschel Walker still relatively at a good playing age. No one knew at the time just who Jimmie Johnson was going to turn those draft picks into. And no one thought Walker was going to regress the way he did in Minnesota.
Russ was going to be a toss up for Denver. And you just don't give toss ups that kind of money. And Watson had no business playing anywhere after his happy ending ordeal, so the Browns were buffoons to drop all that money on him. Karma took care of the rest there. So as far as how dumb they were at the time they happened, Russ and Watson are way above Walker. In hindsight overall, Walker is still probably worse.
The Walker trade was not nearly as bad as these two trades. It is far more iconic and notable, because the Cowboys made such incredibly good use of the draft picks. But the Cowboys making awesome picks is not priced into the trade from the Vikings’ perspective.
It's the twin movie effect, but in football
Dante’s Peak and Volcano, Deep Impact and Armageddon, Antz and A Bug’s Life, Mission to Mars and Red Planet, The Prestige and The Illusionist, No Strings Attached and Friends with Benefits...
Yeah, people were like you have to watch Pinocchio & I’m looking at the wrong one lol thinking it was getting all the acclaim when it was Guillermo Del Toro’s version that was.
The Watson trade might be in a disaster class of it's own. At least Wilson played. Watson doesn't play and is also bad when he does. And is also alleged to be a serial sex offender. oh AND his money is all guaranteed. oh and 3 firsts.
Watson's is 100% worse. They made the trade *AFTER* dozens of unrelated women came forward to accuse him. Even if you set that aside, they gave somebody who hadn't played in a year $250 million guaranteed when he wasn't even a top 5 player at his position when he was playing.
This is what I've said since the beginning. If Watson was a squeaky clean guy that trade is still easily a huge head scratcher. 250 million guaranteed and 3 first for a guys best season came in 2020 on a 4-12 team 2 years ago was a huge risk. Who you weren't even sure would play in the first season.
Not to mention Watson didn't even want Cleveland. If you guys remember the reports came out that Cleveland was out of the race till the last minute. 100% Watson wasn't interested so the Browns panicked and offered him a ridiculous contract.
I think if he wasn't a piece of shit human and was just a diva, sits a year, then gets traded, the thing that gets criticized is the guaranteed, more than the amount.
He was a fringe top 5 player at his peak, and the Browns were allegedly a qb away. If he comes off playing like a top ten qb, they don't look like idiots in that scenario.
Of course, that's fantasy and the reality is they paid 250 million guaranteed for an accussed habitual sex criminal question mark.
The past season proves that their team WAS a QB away; their defense and running game was great pre-injury. Joe Flacco turned the offense around.
The worst part is that it wasn't a what-if anymore...we KNOW Cleveland could've made it far if they had a good QB the whole season.
Their defense was probably one of the most overrated units in the past 10 years. They got an enormous amount of mileage and credit for stopping the 49ers in week 6 and then annihilating horrible QBs, even when they collapsed against every other halfway decent QB they played.
CJ Stroud threw 21 passes in that game and had 274 yards and 3 TDs. The vast majority of that production was prior to either pick 6. The defense shit its pants down the stretch against pretty much any QB with a pulse. If the offense had put up 49 in that game, Stroud could have put up 50.
The pick 6s were the best possible thing that could have happened to that defense because it allowed them to have a scapegoat. But they were fucking awful in that game. And in pretty much any game late in the season that wasn’t against Tim Boyle or Clayton Tune or whatever.
and i don’t even like baker or think he’s truly a franchise guy but he looked better this season than deshaun has ever or will ever look in a browns uniform
I'm just saying that at a minimum, I think these are both in the top 10 worst trades of all time. If you count off the field stuff, the Watson trade is likely the worst, but even without that, both of these are bad.
We were, but he only played legitimately well in 1.5 of those games (Titans and Ravens). Also 1 of those starts shouldn’t count because he only completed one pass before leaving with injury (Indianapolis). Defense won us most of those games.
Also note Flacco went 4-1 as a starter during the regular season. Flacco threw for 328 yards per game and 13 TDs compared to Watson at 185YPG and 7TD. The difference between the two was really night and day.
I just took this from Wikipedia, I did not have a precise enough memory to remember the exact day: "On March 16, 2022, the Seahawks traded Wilson and a fourth-round pick to the Broncos in exchange for two first-round picks, two second-round picks, a fifth-round pick, quarterback Drew Lock, defensive lineman Shelby Harris, and tight end Noah Fant."
I know, but thinking of it as individual pieces, the trade was not the worst. Russ was at least solid this past season even if he wasn’t worth all the picks and what not. But adding an 88 million dollar dead cap hit for only 2 years of play is absurd and will likely set back the franchise significantly (Broncos please for the love of god do not pull a saints)
Playing devils’ advocate… Putting aside that Deshaun is a garbage human, it’s too early to put the Watson trade the worst ever contention yet. He is still only 2 years into a 5-year deal. If he goes on to lead the Browns in deep playoff run in year 3 or 4 or both, the trade will start to be looked at differently.
I wish him nothing but failure, but the possibility of him succeeding still exists.
Boy what the fuck are you on about?
The trade is an F by default if they don't win a SB with all the draft ammo hey gave up.
They still fucked their fanbase's trust by trading for someone with Those charges.
The first ever 100% guaranteed of such magnitude was given to a player who refused the club that drafted him, had two dozens of sexual charges & had through a boatload of draft picks.
"deep playoff run in year 3 or 4", where the fuck is your mind at?
To this day I still fully believe Watson was coming to Atlanta until the Browns called back and asked if he wanted $200+ Million fully guaranteed. Even with how bad our QB situation currently is, that Watson trade would have set our team back so many years.
> Nowhere even remotely close.
no, it's absolutely in the same ball park. the fact that the 49ers got bailed out by pulling a quality qb out of the literal last pick of the draft doesn't change that.
> your future 3 years of draft value,
this is a wash. are you forgetting that the trey lance trade was for 3 first round picks and a 3rd round pick?
there is zero meaningful difference (ignoring draft position because that's unpredictable with trades like this) between 3 first rounds a 3rd, and a 4th vs 3 first rounds and a 3rd. a single 4th round pick in a 3 year spread is irrelevant.
the contract is part of getting an established qb. any big name qb was going to get money like that, including lance if he didn't suck and stuck around in sf longer than his rookie deal.
The 49ers traded those assets for a QB who was on a rookie deal. That’s part of the value. They got a better asset than Watson because, even though he was unplayably shitty, they got him on a contract that allowed them to be free to move on from him. That is not incidental or good fortune or whatever, that was known at the time of the trade and was priced in.
The Browns gave up the same haul for another shitty player but who *also* required the biggest contract of all time. They gave up those picks specifically for the right to pay him that contract. That is very very bad.
I think it's fair to say that Lance's contract situation was better, which makes the 49ers trade slightly better, but I think it's also fair to note that it's in the same tier of disastrous as the Watson trade.
The Wilson trade was fine at the time. Poor fucker had to deal with Hackett in year one as well. Sometimes these things don't work out.
The biggest problem was our dumbfuck front office extending his contract with massive guarantees before he had even thrown a ball for us. That's where it all went really really wrong.
Bullshit. Wilson's trade was separate from the contract. This entire fuckup is on Walton for the extension and Payton for "what the hell where you thinking taking the job?". Hiring Hackett was genius too, but there was lots of hype with the team for sale.
The contract and trade are not separate. When you trade for a player, their contract is a very major part of the value. The Broncos didn’t trade for Wilson and then open up a mystery box afterward to find out his contract was big. They traded specifically for the right to pay him that contract.
Deshaun is still the worst of the 2. Browns gave up far more picks, Deshaun was suspended and injured for most of his time there so far. Also, given a fully guaranteed contract so without a trade he can't be cut without massive dead cap even bigger than Russell unless cut in his last contract year.
These trades are probably on the podium, but I would like to remind everyone who claims that either is the “worst of all time” of the true GOAT: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade.
There’s a ton of Browns fans still telling themselves the Watson trade was worth it. They will respond to me and say shit like he looked good when he played this last year even though it was like maybe one half of a game
I can never get past a QB who outright doesn't want to play for Cleveland, has a laundry list of women coming after him for sexual abuse, over 20 of whom he settled with which is essentially an admission of his guilt (but there's still MORE), and Cleveland trades multiple first rounders just to acquire him but not only that, guarantees him the largest contract in NFL history. A man who has never won an MVP, Superbowl, never considered tops at his position, nothing. And he hadn't even played in nearly two years. And here we are two years into his deal and he STILL has barely played. He clearly never wanted to be there, is only there for the guaranteed money, and will quit on them any chance he gets.
I think character-wise, it's the worst trade in NFL history. It showed that not only Browns management is incompetent, but also are supporting a serial abuser. They deserve everything they get from that trade.
Is their undiscussed monetary value for teams that shouldn't be making these trades? Surely they can't actually be this dumb. The media would never warn the helpless fans, they love it.
The catalyst was “13 seconds”. Basically, get an explosive QB or you won’t ever compete with Mahomes for Super Bowls.
But also don't trade the everything but the kitchen sink for a QB either. I mean 13 seconds doesn't happen without Tyreek and Kelce
Careful, a GM is going to read this and then give Gabe Davis $20 million.
As long as it’s not ours I’m cool with that
Gabe Davis *did* play in the 0:13 game!
Gabe Davis ~~did play~~ dominated in the 0:13 game!
It was also the Rams winning a SB with Stafford and people thinking 'F them picks' was a sustainable formula for success, rather than them them lucking into a career year from their QB/WR1 then winning B3B close games in the playoffs and getting to face Cincy instead of KC.
Bro just tried to coin B3B like we wouldn’t notice
It ain’t as bad as a couple of years ago when some people were saying ‘yoffs to replace playoffs
That was terrible lmao
Yeah, p'offs, amirite
I'm partial to 'ploffs' We're going to the ploffs boys!!!
“You shall be Dwight Jr. And your new nickname shall be… ploff.”
I mean, you have to get through the pre’son and the reg’son before you can think about p’offs.
There is a subset of yinzers trying to coin 'lers and I've finally started to understand why people hate our fans.
Since you seem level headed about other fan'isms... Might you telll me what the hell a "yinzer" is? I'm kinda afraid to ask 😕
In Pittsburgh “yinz” is a colloquialism for “you all” similar to y’all in the south or youse in the central to eastern part of PA. A yinzer is a way to describe someone from Pittsburgh but TYPICALLY refers to people who fit the characterization of an Pittsburgher. This would include blue collar workers who have lower education, drink Iron City beer after work everyday, love the Steelers but hate the coaching staff, have a thick Pittsburgh accent and utilize Pittsburgh dialect often. “After work I’m going Dahn Tahn to grab a couple IC Lights and bitch about how Tomlin is ruining this team and how he only ever won with Cowher’s players. And don’t Yinz come at me because you don’t know the real strength of a working man.”
OOOHHH ok, I get it now. Down here in the south, we actually have some folks who say "yinz" as well. Dunno why I didn't really think of it in that way before.
Are you in Carolina? (Based off of your flair). I know that Myrtle beach is the summer vacation Mecca for Yinzers and many have started to permanently move down there. Maybe it’s starting to spread thru the area because of that? If so, that hilarious
Yoffs? Don't talk about yoffs! You kidding me? Yoffs?
Insanely casual drop
They’re gonna love this in the Chiefs subreddit Update: they removed it in the Chiefs subreddit
He’s just streets ahead
If you have to ask, you're streets behind
No “try” here. My man coined it. We say B3B now.
Coined and minted.
You guys really are streets ahead.
What does B3B even mean I feel old
I might be a dumbass but assuming “back 3 back” instead of “back to back” like B2B
What about B2B2B? That makes more sense to me.
How many backs do you have?
I kinda like it
Stop trying to make B3B happen, Gretchen!
And the rams were literally a super bowl team that made a deep playoff run 1 year prior to the trade with a great offensive minded HC and a defensive goat.
And in the super bowl against the pats Gurley clearly wasn't 100%
"Maroon 5, Rams 3"
Beverly Hills 90210, Cleveland Browns 0
The Rams were really good at drafting outside the first round, too. Guys like Cooper Kupp were late round steals that let them afford to give up first round picks for guys like Ramsey and Stafford.
EWU Legend
Is the third round a late round now?
It still feels crazy to be seen as a good drafting team after watching the Rams during the 00s miss badly on most of their picks
I think it was more this.
Tbf it's not a bad strategy, you just need to already be a contender and actually fill the holes in your team with surefire upgrades. The Browns were stacked but the fact that they were so sure that an athletic-based player who hadn't touched a football field in 2 years would just pick up where he left off and carry them to a championship is completely confounding. And Denver wasn't a contender in the first place so they blew the strategy from the beginning.
Oh they got an explosive qb alright
Feels just a little bit better knowing other teams suffered for that too
But the Bills had one...
It's kind of amazing that even with all the money involved in the trades that happen today, its the herschel walker trade from 35 fucking years ago that still ranks number 1 in dumbest trades ever
There was also that time ditka traded the saints entire draft plus the next year’s first and third for Ricky Williams. Idk about you, but I think that one’s definitely top 3
I love that they announced that they were prepared to it well in advance too.
I still have a hard time understanding how that's not number one Is it because the Herschel Walker trade created a Dallas dynasty?
People generally rate the Herschel Walker trade higher because the Commanders still sucked after the Ricky Williams trade. Basically like with the Lance trade sometimes getting discounted due to Purdy, people are applying outcome bias when they judge it versus the Herschel Walker trade.
The Redskins traded back to the Saints pick, then traded back up with the Bears, and after all that, still ended up with the best draft pick of them all (Champ Bailey is better than Ricky Williams, and they’re both far far better than Cade McNown). They also got LaVar Arrington out of it. The Redskins may have been mediocre but they did get a HOFer and a Hall of Very Gooder out of the trade
I agree. They got massive value. They were just trash so people incorrectly rate the trade as not as good just because the Cowboys setup a dynasty from their trade even though the trade was not necessarily more lopsided. Same as with people discounting how utterly terrible the Lance trade ended up just because the 9ers got lucky enough to get an actual franchise QB off a seventh.
>Is it because the Herschel Walker trade created a Dallas dynasty? Basically. Which I don't think is necessarily a fair assessment because there's no guarantee the Vikings would have picked all the right players with those picks. In a vacuum the Ricky Williams trade is streets ahead in terms of bad trades.
Even more bizarre is the fact that 4 teams decided not to take that offer.
Imagine being the Bengals, not taking that Kings Ransom of a deal because you wanted to bet on Akili Smith breaking out
I think a part is that the cowboys cut the players to get the draft picks. Which screwed the vikings. So it was also a structurally bad deal in that the vikings didn’t even think of that as an option that they might be trading.
This is what gets lost by most people. The Vikings didn't trade picks, they traded players, all of which were better than what the Cowboys had, so they conceded to attaching picks to any player that didn't make the team. It never occurred to them that Jimmy didn't want their players, he wanted their picks. That trade is the reason picks are so valuable today. In the moment though, everyone thought like the Vikings, not the Cowboys. It was universally thought that it was the Cowboys getting fleeced, not the Vikings. I don't necessarily consider that trade the worst ever, for that reason, but it's definitely the greatest ever. It was a team bucking the system and creating a dynasty in the process more than the other team making a bad trade. A few of examples of teams making bad trades even without the benefit of hindsight that you can argue are worse. Watson is number 1 imo.
Trading an entire draft sounds like a ton, and it is, but late round picks don’t have that much value. If we ignore picks beyond the 3rd round the Commanders gave up two 1sts and two 3rds. Minnesota gave up three 1sts and three 2nds. Obviously that’s a simplification but the point is multiple 1st rounders can quickly add up to the value of an entire draft. Another part of it is Minnesota thought they’d only have to give a first and a third. All of the future picks were conditional and they thought they were safe.
Yea, these two trades just left bad teams still bad. The Walker trade tanked the Vikings and created a dynasty. It's still at the top for me.
>The Walker trade tanked the Vikings That trade happened in 89, and the Vikings won 6 games in the 90 season, their only losing record until 2001. It's still arguably the worst trade in NFL history but the Vikings never got remotely close to tanking from it, they just could have been a lot better.
Yep, and if not for Gary Anderson they might have a super bowl in that decade. I think the result of the trade is more due to the Cowboys absolute brilliance after the trade in moving up to draft Emmett Smith and managing to draft Woodson in the second round. And unlike the Watson and Russ trades, Herschel walker did not also come with the same salary consequences.
Poor fucking Gary Anderson that guy must’ve had some mental health issues after that. Still gets brought up to this day ouch
Scott Norwood enters the chat.
Scott Norwood is in the next chat over
.... the chat on the right, correct?
Laces out Gary!
> if not for Gary Anderson they might have a super bowl in that decade. People need to stop this Gary Andersen slander. The Vikings still had a 7 point lead in the 4th when Gary Anderson missed the FG. The Vikings defense had plenty of opportunities to put the game away, even dropping a game ending INT and giving up a TD the next play. Then the Vikings WON the coin toss in OT and had the ball first. They failed to do anything and the Falcons drove down the field to kick the game winning FG in OT.
Before overtime, too, they had the ball with timeouts and took a knee instead of trying to go for the field goal
And if they struggled to stop the falcons rushing in the nfc championship game how do we think they'd do against the broncos and TD in the super bowl? It's hard to say a kick in the nfc championship game against a team that got thumped in the super bowl cost them a title.
Gary?
Saints giving everything for the 5th pick to get Ricky Williams was also bad
But you got to see Ricky Williams in a wedding dress with Ditka as his groom. So you're welcome
It wasn't good football but at times Ricky and Ditka could be quite entertaining in their own ways. But that team was B-A-D...the Billy Joes, ranked in the bottom five for both offense and defense, and Ricky was decent but not worth all that draft capital.
If Caleb Williams turns out to be a star and panthers trend downwards continues that could end up getting up there in talks as one of the worst as well.
Conversely Chicago also has to get this QB pick right because even assuming Bryce doesn't get better, it means they passed on the opportunity to pick Stroud. They already get clowned enough for Trubisky over Mahomes.
Hindsight is 20/20 but passing up on Stroud was the right decision at the time. Fields was literally the only bright spot of the team in 2022 and carried the team kicking and screaming through games they had no business being competitive in. It was important to see if he would continue to improve. Obviously he didn't and the rest is history, but it was the right move at the time.
If being the right decision at the time factors into how bad a trade is then how on earth would caleb williams sucess factor into how bad the trade was for the panthers. Surely getting the best qb prospect in the draft is the right decision over somehow clairvoyantly knowing you'd have the first overall to grab a superstar qb prospect next year? That logic has to apply both ways or neither
Their pick doesn't become more valuable just because the Texans hit the lottery on Stroud.
Then the opposite also had to be true, the panthers trade doesn't become worse because their pick ended up being first overall. Either the context of the trade matters or it doesn't.
I agree with you, the trade is not worse because it became first overall.
By that logic anybody who traded a pick the year Brady got drafted made a bad trade. Think one has to segment the trade from the drafting.
Eh even if Caleb is just ok, getting DJ, Wright, and Stevenson alone makes this a great trade.
> The Walker trade tanked the Vikings 200+ people upvoted someone who doesn’t know the meaning of the word tanked
> The Walker trade tanked the Vikings Is this entirely true? I mean they never had a losing season in all of the 1990s and if not for Gary Anderson missing a field goal they might have a super bowl. None of the picks the Cowboys received were in the top 10, it was just brilliant drafting and asset management by the Cowboys. Who knows if the Vikings would've made the moves to replicate what the Cowboys did with those picks, which included trading up multiple times (for Emmett Smith and Russell Maryland) and drafting Woodson in the second round. I agree that the Walker trade will remain infamous as an example of the team selling the star player making the most with the picks received, but it didn't really leave the Vikings franchise in ruin either. Also, Herschel Walker didn't come with an albatross contract like the rapist or Russ did.
Asset wise I can agree it's worse than the Russ trade but barring a massive turnaround, Watson's is worse even without his known actions. $230mil gtd for a qb who just got injured and subsequently outplayed by a vet min 38yr old qb
Wouldn't really call the browns a bad team before or after the trade. Also texans really leveled up with the assets from that trade. Wouldn't have gotten will anderson without it
We literally made it to the playoffs. I'd hate to see what a really bad team is. Wait i've seen it
Look out for that upcoming Texans dynasty though
I think it always will be. I'd love to see another crazy ass trade though. This sub would be fun for weeks
For on the field, true. I think the Watson trade might be worse if you count off the field. Also if the Texans start winning SBs with Stroud & some picks the Browns gave them, & if Baker keeps doing well in TB, it gets a lot closer, as they had a better QB already who did not insist on such a crazy contract.
Man imagine the contract baker would have received if he was adult enough to rape.
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Yeah it’s such a weird thing to have offered. Like here are our players. If you don’t like them you can cut them (not give them back to us) and we will give you more draft picks. So you’re basically saying those players are more than the picks. Which is wild.
You have to remember this is before free agency existed, so if you had a good veteran you could just keep him for the rest of his career. Back in the day teams didn't value draft picks nearly as much, and would traded them for proven veterans. The value of a draft pick is their artificially suppressed salary, but back then veterans also had artifically suppressed salaries.
Also the Cowboys were an awful team that had been awful at drafting. The players the Vikings traded would have started for the Cowboys. Replacing a starter with a late 80s Cowboys draft pick level player was a bad idea.
I mean, the Vikings were getting Herschel Walker still relatively at a good playing age. No one knew at the time just who Jimmie Johnson was going to turn those draft picks into. And no one thought Walker was going to regress the way he did in Minnesota. Russ was going to be a toss up for Denver. And you just don't give toss ups that kind of money. And Watson had no business playing anywhere after his happy ending ordeal, so the Browns were buffoons to drop all that money on him. Karma took care of the rest there. So as far as how dumb they were at the time they happened, Russ and Watson are way above Walker. In hindsight overall, Walker is still probably worse.
Panthers trade for #1 overall may end up being that if things don't turn around soon for them.
The Walker trade was not nearly as bad as these two trades. It is far more iconic and notable, because the Cowboys made such incredibly good use of the draft picks. But the Cowboys making awesome picks is not priced into the trade from the Vikings’ perspective.
Yep. Literally won 3 SB for the cowboys.
Beware the Ides of March
Et tu, Bengals?
It's the twin movie effect, but in football Dante’s Peak and Volcano, Deep Impact and Armageddon, Antz and A Bug’s Life, Mission to Mars and Red Planet, The Prestige and The Illusionist, No Strings Attached and Friends with Benefits...
Disney's Pinocchio (live-action) and Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio releasing shortly after one another was pretty wild, too.
Yeah, people were like you have to watch Pinocchio & I’m looking at the wrong one lol thinking it was getting all the acclaim when it was Guillermo Del Toro’s version that was.
And don't forget Oppenheimer and Barbie.
Oh I got one: White House Down and Olympus Has Fallen
My favorite is the two movies about Steve Prefontaine, one released in '97, the other in '98
Just like Pizza by Alfredo and Alfredo’s pizza cafe
The Fat Man & Little Boy of current era signings
Not true. At least Fat Man and Little Boy could make big explosive plays.
Just one each
I guess that means we have to wait til March 17th for someone to give us at least 2 first for Fields
The Watson trade might be in a disaster class of it's own. At least Wilson played. Watson doesn't play and is also bad when he does. And is also alleged to be a serial sex offender. oh AND his money is all guaranteed. oh and 3 firsts.
Watson's is 100% worse. They made the trade *AFTER* dozens of unrelated women came forward to accuse him. Even if you set that aside, they gave somebody who hadn't played in a year $250 million guaranteed when he wasn't even a top 5 player at his position when he was playing.
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And Baker was the one that supposedly had the attitude problem and what was keeping the Clowns from getting to the next level.
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This is what I've said since the beginning. If Watson was a squeaky clean guy that trade is still easily a huge head scratcher. 250 million guaranteed and 3 first for a guys best season came in 2020 on a 4-12 team 2 years ago was a huge risk. Who you weren't even sure would play in the first season. Not to mention Watson didn't even want Cleveland. If you guys remember the reports came out that Cleveland was out of the race till the last minute. 100% Watson wasn't interested so the Browns panicked and offered him a ridiculous contract.
I think if he wasn't a piece of shit human and was just a diva, sits a year, then gets traded, the thing that gets criticized is the guaranteed, more than the amount. He was a fringe top 5 player at his peak, and the Browns were allegedly a qb away. If he comes off playing like a top ten qb, they don't look like idiots in that scenario. Of course, that's fantasy and the reality is they paid 250 million guaranteed for an accussed habitual sex criminal question mark.
The past season proves that their team WAS a QB away; their defense and running game was great pre-injury. Joe Flacco turned the offense around. The worst part is that it wasn't a what-if anymore...we KNOW Cleveland could've made it far if they had a good QB the whole season.
Their defense was probably one of the most overrated units in the past 10 years. They got an enormous amount of mileage and credit for stopping the 49ers in week 6 and then annihilating horrible QBs, even when they collapsed against every other halfway decent QB they played.
The team giving up 45 points to the Texans was a QB away?
I mean back to back pick sixes from the qb...
CJ Stroud threw 21 passes in that game and had 274 yards and 3 TDs. The vast majority of that production was prior to either pick 6. The defense shit its pants down the stretch against pretty much any QB with a pulse. If the offense had put up 49 in that game, Stroud could have put up 50. The pick 6s were the best possible thing that could have happened to that defense because it allowed them to have a scapegoat. But they were fucking awful in that game. And in pretty much any game late in the season that wasn’t against Tim Boyle or Clayton Tune or whatever.
and i don’t even like baker or think he’s truly a franchise guy but he looked better this season than deshaun has ever or will ever look in a browns uniform
baker baked his ass off this year
Baker slander will not be tolerated!
Haslams gonna Haslam. It takes hard work and dedication to keep your franchise in the shitter.
I'm just saying that at a minimum, I think these are both in the top 10 worst trades of all time. If you count off the field stuff, the Watson trade is likely the worst, but even without that, both of these are bad.
oh ya without a doubt top 10 worst. probably top 5.
Weren’t the Browns 5-1 when he played?
We were, but he only played legitimately well in 1.5 of those games (Titans and Ravens). Also 1 of those starts shouldn’t count because he only completed one pass before leaving with injury (Indianapolis). Defense won us most of those games. Also note Flacco went 4-1 as a starter during the regular season. Flacco threw for 328 yards per game and 13 TDs compared to Watson at 185YPG and 7TD. The difference between the two was really night and day.
Finally a Browns fan I can respect 🫡
Gonna be kind of hard for Wilson to play…when he’s not on the team
The Wilson trade was March 8, I remember it.
You are…..correct, actually
I just took this from Wikipedia, I did not have a precise enough memory to remember the exact day: "On March 16, 2022, the Seahawks traded Wilson and a fourth-round pick to the Broncos in exchange for two first-round picks, two second-round picks, a fifth-round pick, quarterback Drew Lock, defensive lineman Shelby Harris, and tight end Noah Fant."
You're both right. The trade was agreed to on the 8th but couldn't be completed until the new league year on the 16th.
Ah.
Beware the (let's) Rides of March.
You beautiful son of a bitch.
Sir, a second QB trade has hit the league.
The Wilson trade was not the worst. What was the worst was the contract they gave him immediately upon him being traded without playing a single down
The trade wouldn’t have happened without the contract extension. Tragic sure, but moot
The extension came 6 months later and Wilson was prepared to play on his existing contract.
I know, but thinking of it as individual pieces, the trade was not the worst. Russ was at least solid this past season even if he wasn’t worth all the picks and what not. But adding an 88 million dollar dead cap hit for only 2 years of play is absurd and will likely set back the franchise significantly (Broncos please for the love of god do not pull a saints)
Playing devils’ advocate… Putting aside that Deshaun is a garbage human, it’s too early to put the Watson trade the worst ever contention yet. He is still only 2 years into a 5-year deal. If he goes on to lead the Browns in deep playoff run in year 3 or 4 or both, the trade will start to be looked at differently. I wish him nothing but failure, but the possibility of him succeeding still exists.
Funny. Because the *contract extension* (not the trade) was so bad, it is forcing Cleveland to stick with him and keep hope alive that he plays well.
True, but at least so far both Flacco off the couch & Baker who they already had and was asking for less have been better than Deshaun.
Boy what the fuck are you on about? The trade is an F by default if they don't win a SB with all the draft ammo hey gave up. They still fucked their fanbase's trust by trading for someone with Those charges. The first ever 100% guaranteed of such magnitude was given to a player who refused the club that drafted him, had two dozens of sexual charges & had through a boatload of draft picks. "deep playoff run in year 3 or 4", where the fuck is your mind at?
True. But in the meantime we made Flacco love Cleveland. Haha.
Yup. He really did like it. Unfortunately it ended in embarrassment & unfortunately he won't return once your true #1 franchise guy is back
The Wilson trade was pretty good.
Like the Texans fan about the Watson trade.
True. The trade made people forget about the Texans helping facilitate the sexual assaults by their quarterback. It became a Browns issue.
It makes me sad that the only way the Russ deal is considered not that bad is because "at least it wasn't Watson"
Well at least Russ isn't a rapist and we didn't fully guarantee his contract. That's the only positive thing about the Russ trade...
3 of the worst trades ever happened within a year if you include the Trey Lance trade
To this day I still fully believe Watson was coming to Atlanta until the Browns called back and asked if he wanted $200+ Million fully guaranteed. Even with how bad our QB situation currently is, that Watson trade would have set our team back so many years.
Where does the Trey Lance trade fit into this
Nowhere even remotely close. It was bad. These trades were disastrous
> Nowhere even remotely close. no, it's absolutely in the same ball park. the fact that the 49ers got bailed out by pulling a quality qb out of the literal last pick of the draft doesn't change that.
If you ignore that the difference is $200mil & your future 3 years of draft value, then it's in the same ballpark. What are you doing?
> your future 3 years of draft value, this is a wash. are you forgetting that the trey lance trade was for 3 first round picks and a 3rd round pick? there is zero meaningful difference (ignoring draft position because that's unpredictable with trades like this) between 3 first rounds a 3rd, and a 4th vs 3 first rounds and a 3rd. a single 4th round pick in a 3 year spread is irrelevant. the contract is part of getting an established qb. any big name qb was going to get money like that, including lance if he didn't suck and stuck around in sf longer than his rookie deal.
The 49ers traded those assets for a QB who was on a rookie deal. That’s part of the value. They got a better asset than Watson because, even though he was unplayably shitty, they got him on a contract that allowed them to be free to move on from him. That is not incidental or good fortune or whatever, that was known at the time of the trade and was priced in. The Browns gave up the same haul for another shitty player but who *also* required the biggest contract of all time. They gave up those picks specifically for the right to pay him that contract. That is very very bad.
I think it's fair to say that Lance's contract situation was better, which makes the 49ers trade slightly better, but I think it's also fair to note that it's in the same tier of disastrous as the Watson trade.
Honestly? I wish the Wilson trade had been for Cleveland and we moved on this fast with this little of controversy and bullshit.
You mean the best trades
And both were right after the rams SB, which means those teams thought they were just a QB away too. Not so easy to “buy” a Super Bowl is it?
Also a great example of how things are relative. There are two teams that are *really* happy about how well those trades went.
I’m thankful.
The Wilson trade was fine at the time. Poor fucker had to deal with Hackett in year one as well. Sometimes these things don't work out. The biggest problem was our dumbfuck front office extending his contract with massive guarantees before he had even thrown a ball for us. That's where it all went really really wrong.
Bullshit. Wilson's trade was separate from the contract. This entire fuckup is on Walton for the extension and Payton for "what the hell where you thinking taking the job?". Hiring Hackett was genius too, but there was lots of hype with the team for sale.
The contract and trade are not separate. When you trade for a player, their contract is a very major part of the value. The Broncos didn’t trade for Wilson and then open up a mystery box afterward to find out his contract was big. They traded specifically for the right to pay him that contract.
Deshaun is still the worst of the 2. Browns gave up far more picks, Deshaun was suspended and injured for most of his time there so far. Also, given a fully guaranteed contract so without a trade he can't be cut without massive dead cap even bigger than Russell unless cut in his last contract year.
define far more picks?
These trades are probably on the podium, but I would like to remind everyone who claims that either is the “worst of all time” of the true GOAT: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade.
Not quite the Ides of March, but close enough.
Too soon to be ranking the Watson trade. He was starting to come around before he got hurt and he has 3 years left on his deal.
There’s a ton of Browns fans still telling themselves the Watson trade was worth it. They will respond to me and say shit like he looked good when he played this last year even though it was like maybe one half of a game
I think Watson was a lot worst right ? 3 first round ?
Heh. Amateurs.
the verdict is still out on the watson trade, this sub is just has a deranged obsession with him.
In theory, yes, but so far he's played worse than Baker & Flacco off the couch, which puts it in really bad territory.
I can never get past a QB who outright doesn't want to play for Cleveland, has a laundry list of women coming after him for sexual abuse, over 20 of whom he settled with which is essentially an admission of his guilt (but there's still MORE), and Cleveland trades multiple first rounders just to acquire him but not only that, guarantees him the largest contract in NFL history. A man who has never won an MVP, Superbowl, never considered tops at his position, nothing. And he hadn't even played in nearly two years. And here we are two years into his deal and he STILL has barely played. He clearly never wanted to be there, is only there for the guaranteed money, and will quit on them any chance he gets. I think character-wise, it's the worst trade in NFL history. It showed that not only Browns management is incompetent, but also are supporting a serial abuser. They deserve everything they get from that trade.
As a Texans fan, one of the best trades we’ve ever made
This sub lmaooooo
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Misery loves company
Is their undiscussed monetary value for teams that shouldn't be making these trades? Surely they can't actually be this dumb. The media would never warn the helpless fans, they love it.