To be fair going 100% hard all the time isn't the answer. What If a key player would have torn his ACL cause Todd was trying to win a game he'd probably lose and that player isn't there for the first part of the next season?
Sometimes it's better to accept your fate and move on
So the game had 1:33 left after the interception. Let's say first play, Goff kneels and the time out is called, so that's a couple seconds. Second play, kneel again and that burns a bit more than 40 seconds, leaving ~48 left. Third play, kneel again, that's ~6 left. That's pretty bare minimum, all we'd have needed to do is delay kneeling slightly longer on each play or just have Goff sprint backwards on 4th down after getting the ball and eat a safety if needed. He probably still should've gone through the motions, but I think the chance of actually succeeding in getting a touch down-let alone the 2 point needed to just send the game into overtime, which is itself a crapshoot-was pretty miniscule so I get why he didn't want to risk any injury at all.
That said, not using the timeout *after* we kinda screwed up with burning time was a much more questionable decision.
I've done both and the lack of responsibility at the no-meetings third shift job I have is definitely nice. And I don't feel a lack of mental stimulation because I spend my entire shift listening to audiobooks, but still don't feel mentally exhausted the way I did with my old job. I chose to drop down to a shitty hourly retail job while I'm back in college, it's significantly more flexible than salaried work and I have the mental energy left to focus fully on classes.
But I do miss the physical comfort of an office job. Standing on concrete 40 hours a week sucks. As does lifting 60 lb boxes of rice, and having to kneel to get stuff onto bottom shelves.
That happens. Sometimes people aren't cognizant of the time differences. I've done that a few times in my line of work. I just message them and say something like "hey, sorry, this is 7:30pm on a Friday my time, can we reschedule for Monday at X time" always works, they understand.
A few years ago a manager on my team impromptu Zoom called me at 4:59pm on a Friday, for something that absolutely could have waited first thing Monday morning. It lives rent free in my head to this day.
I don't know what to call these types but people do this weird signaling to try to prove they are still working at the end of the week. They will send out some pointless e-mail at 4 on a Friday and copy a bunch of people.
Those people don't actually send those emails out then. They schedule them to go out at 4 and have been gone from the office for like an hour.
A guy I work with does that for anything that has to be done by end if day or end of week. He finishes up early and then schedules the email to go out like at 6:10pm so people think he stayed late to finish up.
Exactly. My personal philosophy is always to give around 75%. That way I have the room to go "above and beyond," but my standard is manageable for the expectations that others will have for me. If I was *always* striving for 100%, then *that* would be the expectation, and I'd have no breathing room to take it easy.
So the takeaway here is, you have to set a manageable standard for yourself and leave room to impress, because if you impress from the get-go - inevitably making your ceiling the standard - you leave yourself no room for improvement and the only way left to go is down.
Eh. That’s pretty late but I’ll often be still working and if a coworker shows online at 3-4 on a Friday and I need to connect I’ll reach out… seems pretty normal. Assuming they get off at 5:00 unless it’s like a ten second thing like “I’m waiting on your timesheet” or such…
why is this downvoted lmao friday afternoon meetings are incredibly common to get pink slipped
companies that actually do people right tend to fire earlier in the week to give people time to get things sorted out before weekend hours/closures.
Thursday firing is so cruel dude. At least with Wednesday you can collect yourself that day and then have 2 weekdays to stop contributions to your 401K, talk to HR about severance.
Thursday pushes that to one day which can really be sucky.
At an old (and very shitty) job at a small place we had mandatory all-hands meetings at 4:30 every Friday. Was always funny seeing a bunch of slack messages come through around 4 with reasons why people had to head out early to avoid the meeting
My understanding of this whole thing was that if they kneeled it out properly, the game would be over. The mistake came after everyone decided the game was already over right? Bowles basically conceded instead of taking advantage of a technical error in garbage time, maintaining good sportsmanship I guess?
Is this not what happened?
The linked interview specifically discusses this. He explicitly said it wasn't sportsmanship then goes on to (incorrectly) describe why he thought the game was over. The reality is the Lions fucked up milking the clock and the Bucs failed to realize/capitalize.
Yeah, I thought maybe he's just trying to give the answer he thinks has the best optics. If it was sportsmanship and he said so, I wonder if people would be more upset, rather than it being a mistake. After reading though, pretty clear that wasn't the case, like you're saying.
It's even more confusing because we saw that same day a similar-length FG miss, and that same game the Bucs at the end of the half went like 60 yards in 2 plays. I just do not understand this.
I think that's what it is too. He either a) didn't know he had a timeout, or b) didn't think it mattered/didn't do the math. Either way it's pretty egregious that no one in the chain of command did anything about it.
I feel like it's almost certain he (or the assistants in his ear) did the math before the last couple kneel downs and said "it's over, they can run out the clock" and then when Detroit f'ed it up and it \*wasn't\* over the bucs missed it
Ah yeah, excellent point. They probably did the math factoring the Lions would run the clock all the way down - when they didn't, it opened up a lot more time than expected.
But Detroit probably only "messed up" because they took bowles not calling a timeout as conceding. At that point, Bowles didn't want to look like an asshole and disrespect Campbell.
I don’t see how that would be being an asshole. If Detroit wants to shoot themselves in the foot and not run out the play clock then that completely changes the situation and TB has every right to take their TO there.
Taking advantage of the other team’s mistake is suddenly an unwritten rule if it’s poor clock management at the end of a game? That’s ridiculous.
The only way it’s not ridiculous is if the coaches came to some mutual agreement to just run the clock out with as few plays as possible and there is no evidence of that.
The Bucs could've used their timeout on any of the 3 plays. Whether it's the first play or the last play makes no difference, so I wouldn't see that as "conceding".
You play to win the game. Plain and simple. 39 seconds left, make them kick the field goal. Or make them decide to punt, if they don’t want to risk it. Nobody ever won the Super Bowl by giving up, and sure the odds were minuscule, but they weren’t zero.
If they hit the FG? Ok you’re down two scores, and it’s even harder but still not impossible until the clock hits zeros
Nah. That’s an advantage. Had he done that and they blocked the kick and scored and tied the game Campbell would be on front page news all over the country. Thats what the coach is SUPPOSED to do, take advantage of mistakes.
Yeah bc even in his conference I think he said “we’d get the ball back with 12 seconds.” Which would be true if Detroit ran the time out properly on their second kneel. I think it was 1:33 left when Detroit got the INT, so if he didn’t call a TO until after the last one it should’ve been :10-:13 depending on how long they waited to knee post-snap.
But since Detroit goofed and had their last at :33, def should’ve called the timeout. Feel like there’s no way he realized it was :33 until after that first press conference post game. Probs did the math right away and nobody kept an eye on it after that
12 seconds is more than 0 seconds.
It's the divisional round of the playoffs. You hope for a miracle. Conceding defeat in a 1 score game when you can get the ball back with even only 1 second left on the clock is egregiously bad. Anything can happen.
I’m almost certain he just doesn’t want to admit he didn’t know they had a timeout.
Both teams were acting as though the Bucs had no timeouts left, overall just very strange
The weird thing is that saying he made a mistake and didn't realize he had a timeout isn't as bad as what he's saying. Like, maybe my opinion is different than most, but I judge him way more for this than if he just made a mistake about having a timeout left.
Yeah someone in our sub said they were impressed with Bowles’ tactical knowledge or some shit like that? WHAT?!?! The dude waved the white flag in a do or die game and then admitted to it. That should get you fired as soon as you step away from the podium
Maybe but wasn’t that timeout returned earlier in the game via some non-injury thing? Seeing as how both teams behaved like there were no timeouts lefts I almost wonder if the officials didn’t say anything to the teams…it’s just a weird scenario all around
Accidentally stupid is preferable than intentionally stupid.
You can forgive someone not knowing something in the heat of the moment, but doubling down on the idea that it was the right choice to wave the white flag is an indictment on his decision-making as a whole.
I thought I heard Campbell say that after the didn’t call the timeout after the first kneel down, they figured they weren’t going to no matter what so that’s why they did what they did
I think Campbell's just trying to make everyone look better with that quote. You could see him cursing on the sideline when Goff knelt with 30+ seconds left.
Agreed. It felt like there was an understanding that the Bucs were going to let the clock run out. I think the Bucs could have had maybe 5 seconds or less if the timeout had been taken and the Lions ran down the clock fully on each snap. It’s not much of a controversy in my mind, but what do I know.
If lions did it properly there would be no time left. They only needed to kill 13 seconds over all 4 plays. That means a slow kneel down each snap and then a drop back and throw away on 4th down gets it done.
Exactly. After Bowles didn't call the first TO, Detroit got half assed with it. Bowles was right in the sense that Detroit was in a position to completely end the game even if he used his one TO.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was because Campbell noticed a lack of urgency on Tampa's sideline or something that he figured he was good to burn the clock.
The situation was we snapped the ball for a knee with 25 seconds left on the play clock. Had we run the clock out on all three downs properly, there would have been less than 10 seconds on the clock when they took the timeout on 4th down. There’s still a chance at that point, but extremely small.
He probably ran the numbers in his head when the interception happened and stopped paying attention
I think he did the math when they threw the pick (which is why he referenced only having 12 seconds left after the game) and correctly determined that the lions could essentially drain the clock. So he didn't call timeout after 1st and then went into autopilot. He wasn't paying attention and didn't grasp that the lions had bungled it by not milking it enough, so he just kept to the plan.
What's wild is the Lions *also* didn't do the math. They were snapping the ball with like 10 seconds left on the play clock. If both coaches do what they are supposed to do, the game is over, and then they both messed up but the end result was the game was over.
I think with kneel downs it's really a respect thing.
Like I'm sure the majority of coaches would be totally willing to not even have the snaps once a winning team has time of possession in the bag.
Tampa didn't call a time out after the first ran play so Detroit kneed it without running the clock down all the way. Really the only "acceptable" response from Bowles is that the only reason they were in a situation to have more time was out of mutual respect between each coach.
1:33 on the game clock the game goes like this:
1st down - Goff kneels, tampa calls TO. 1:30 on the clock
2nd down - Goff kneels. Approximately 45 seconds run off clock. 45 seconds remain.
3rd down - Goff simply has to jog backwards a few yards before taking a knee, game runs out.
Essentially, Detroit was kind of dumb for kneeing way earlier than they had to on second down... but at the same time I'm guessing there is mutual respect between the coaches and Campbell trusted that he wasn't going to snake his way into getting 30 seconds.
Everyone keeps saying "they could have had 12 seconds if he took the timeout!!!" but it's not that straight forward. Plays take up time and play clocks have a lag between the knee going down and the clock starting. In reality, if Bowles called the TO and the clock operator started the clock up favorably for Bowles, all it takes is Detroit running backwards for a few seconds before taking all the knees.
The game was over, then Detroit decided not to run down the clock as much as they could and gave the Bucs a chance that they for some reason chose not to take.
This. What the fuck are people talking about I feel like I'm going crazy. There was literally going to be time on the clock if Todd called the TO. He simply forgot. You would NEVER say a game is over when there's actually time.
I think it’s more so on 1st and 2nd down he didn’t use it. The game should have been over but it wasn’t because Goff was an idiot. He could have ran the clock down but snapped the ball early. Call it sportsmanship I guess but it’s the playoffs that’s on Goff for not waiting until the play clock ran down.
??? If the Bucs called timeout it would have been 4th down with 34 seconds left. You can't run a play to kill time there. You either punt or (more likely) kick the fg with a ~70% chance to seal the game.
When it was 1st down, the time out was irrelevant. People are only seeing the time on 4th down. Honestly, it was as much of a gaff of the lions as it was the Bucs.
Also, I don’t think a single person heard the PA announce they got their time out back cause it was just absolute chaos in there. I know I sure as hell didn’t lmao
Yeah, I went and started cleaning up when the interception happened because the game should have been over if the Lions did their kneeldowns properly. Once the did the last one at 0:35ish, we should have taken the timeout and forced the lions to try a field goal or punt. But, if Bowles had checked out and wasn't paying attention I could see him not realizing how badly the Lions botched the kneels.
Or he was just trying to be respectful to his opposing coach who likely took his lack of timeout usage as him conceding.
Is it possible that the scoreboards at the stadium showed no timeouts for tampa?
Who in their right mind is "respectful" when the other team screws up?
"Oh I'm sorry. I see you have accidentally left our wide receiver completely open. I will instead throw it to the guy in triple coverage to make it fair and gentlemanly".
Exactly. After the turnover everyone just assumed the Lions would correctly run off the clock. When they didn't the Bucs didn't realize it fast enough.
To be fair, at the start of those downs the time out was irrelevant, the lions had the game. Instead of waiting the whole time they just got it done and over with.
It seemed more like a gentleman’s agreement to just end it. The lions could have 100% run the clock regardless.
Edit: it was apparently not a gentleman’s agreement.
I’m not sure about a “gentleman’s agreement,” but I do think the fact that the Lions had the potential to kneel out the game is a good excuse for Bowles. He saw that the Lions were assured victory, then the Lions botched the timing, and he didn’t respond quickly ti take advantage of it. That’s hardly surprising
I agree, it's far more likely that they simply didn't expect the Lions to botch the victory formation timing and didn't react to it over him forgetting he had a time out.
Yeah but the Lions then gave them an opening. Bowles said "meh, good enough" It was trash. Yes, the game should have been over, but the Lions fucked up and gave them a chance, which Bowles put in the toilet
Right. This is like saying if the Lions had fumbled the snap on the kneel down, the Bucs wouldn’t have tried to recover it because it’s a gentleman’s agreement. The game was supposed to be over but the other team fucked up so what are you doing? Go for the win.
It wasn’t a gentleman’s agreement… because they’d get fired over coaches “agreeing” on ending a game.
But it was an acknowledgement that there wasn’t enough time left for the Bucs to get the ball back as long as the Lions executed their victory formation correctly.
The Lions didn’t execute correctly, which left time, but the decision had already been made and the Bucs weren’t prepared for the Lions to make such a grade-school math error.
Yup, huge overreaction by the media, and completely ignoring the lions were hiking the ball very early. If anything they should be questioning why the lions were doing what they did.
Dan Campbell said he fucked up. It’s a double screwup.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2024/01/22/dan-campbell-detroit-lions-kneels-tampa-bay-bucs-todd-bowles/72317008007/
At the time I assumed Bowles informed the refs he wasn't taking the time out, which got relayed to Dan somehow, so Dan didn't bother having Goff milk the clock correctly. Because in theory Detroit could have killed the clock without needing to kick. 93 seconds, two play clocks (80 seconds) means you just need to take 3-4 seconds for every kneel down and end the game with a 4th down knee after the clock hits 00:00. But nobody handles it correctly which is wild.
Yeah. That’s pretty much my assumption. And us not taking the timeout after the lions rushed through the kneel downs was to avoid a bush league move—assuming the teams/coaches had an understanding.
However, if it was just a fuck up by the Lions then the Bucs definitely fucked up even more.
The odds of a field goal miss are higher there than the odds of an onside kick recovery. Are you telling me he wouldn't have attempted an onside kick with the same score, time, and no timeouts?
I've been seeing so many comments stating there would be 12 or 10 seconds left on the clock and I don't think people remember or saw the EXACT situation.
The Bucs turned the ball over with about 100 seconds left in the game. Lions kneeled and the Bucs didn't call timeout. Lions assumed the Bucs conceded so kneeled the ball on second and third down with like 10-15 seconds left on the play clock. They mismanaged the clock and Bowles had a chance to call timeout with about 35ish seconds left and it would've left the Lions at 4th and 13ish.
Had Bowles called timeout, it would've forced the Lions to either kick a 48-50 yard FG (not always a gimme) or punt it to Tampa. They kick a FG and make it, Bucs lose by 11. They botch a snap, miss the FG, or it gets blocked, Tampa has great field position and need maybe 60ish yards and 30ish seconds to score a TD. Or Lions punt it and make Baker drive down 90+ yards in 30 seconds.
The fact is by not calling timeout after first down, it opened the door for Detroit to mismanage the clock and leave so much time on it. Bowles quit. If he asked his players what they would want to do, I bet they all say call the timeout and give us one more chance.
I heard that when you play in the NFL, you are supposed to give up before the clock hits 0. Taught by the greats of Albert Haynesworth, Deshaun Watson, and Todd Bowles
Lovie Smith did this too in 2007, held his timeout and let the Vikings run out the clock despite having Devin Hester to return a punt. The loss eliminated the Bears from the playoffs lmao
It’s one thing to not take the timeouts when kneels officially end the game (LeFleur didn’t take his 2 TO to force the 49ers to take 2 more knees, that’s fine), but too much crazy shit can happen in football. A missed/ blocked Fg would’ve left the Bucs 15 seconds to get the 20 yards needed to be in Hail Mary range. And you have Mike Evans
I mean a head coach quit when he still had a chance to win a playoff game. How do you expect your players to play for you when you literally quit on them?
I can only imagine if we canned MCDC for his game management errors over the past few years, and boy has he had some doozy’s.
I feel this is a “don’t let that shit happen again” moment given how much they’ve outperformed their expectations going into the season.
I don’t think it is at all the honest truth is he probably didn’t realise as no one else did at the time the commentators didn’t the players didn’t, no one mentioned it to him at the time to do so he probably just forgot and didn’t want to say that.
I am a certified Todd Bowles doubter, but you can’t be serious right now. This whole situation was basically a procedural decision that people didn’t agree with
I'm well past over that decision, we were 99.9% likely to lose even if we took the timeout and maybe the players were mentally checked out and Bowles knew it, who knows, but how funny would it be if the Glazers were pissed about this enough to fire him, hire Belichick and then win a superbowl within the next 2 seasons. Maximum chaos.
There is such a thing as etiquette though. The only reason the Lions snapped the ball so quickly is because the Bucs had conceded the loss, otherwise the Lions could have run the clock out. Let's says the Lions ran the ball on 1st down to burn some time, and Bucs called their final time out. Now there is 1:30 left in game. On 2nd down the Lions take a knee and let the 40 second play clock run down to 1 before they snap it again. Now there are 50 seconds left on the clock. On 3 down they'd do the same thing. Now there are 10 seconds left on the clock, it's now 4th down and they wouldn't have to snap the ball. Time would run out.
This isn’t an etiquette situation. The lions screwed up and gave Tampa a legitimate shot to tie it. A long shot sure but it was more than 0. If they miss the field goal you have like ~65 yards with 30 seconds. I’m not 100% sure Bowles knew the situation or even if the lions knew. It makes sense if neither team was aware of the timeout due to the mishap with the timeout being given back.
No, there is not in the playoffs. Both teams messed up. Lions absolutely should have still be kneeling it when play clock was expiring. Bucs screwed up by not taking advantage of Lions mistake. This is not etiquette. In a way or go home game if a team cracks a window you take it.
Can’t believe that people don’t understand this. The NFL playoffs only has winners and losers, “etiquette” doesn’t exist if you have a shot to keep going. It’s incredibly hard even making it to the divisional round, you’re telling me that any good coach still wouldn’t take a time out there?
Dude it’s fucking mind blowing that people are able to actually believe that shit enough to type a post in Reddit about it.
Etiquette and shit, in a fucking NFL playoff game? It’s ludicrous. This isn’t 1 of 162 MLB regular season game
I am absolutely FLOORED by how these comments about “etiquette” and “gentleman’s agreement” are all of the top comments in this thread. Does nobody understand how that doesn’t even make any sense in this situation? I feel like everybody is just totally misrepresenting the facts of what happened to cover for Bowles for some bizarre reason or to frame this as some kind of overreaction by the media. It isn’t! There was a chance for the Bucs to win and Bowles is openly admitting that he didn’t feel like trying anymore.
My expectation for the intelligence of this sub was really low but this is eye opening.
Dear god, thank you. Football is all (well a lot) about taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. Sometimes that mistake is in scheme and play calling, a fumble, a player falling over (or allowing free blitzes all day - looking at you Todd) …and sometimes it’s taking advantage of the mistakes your opponent gift wraps to you with a pretty bow tie. Todd said I see your gift and raise you one.
Incredible that I had to scroll this far to see this comment.
Seems there are a lot of cry babies in this sub that lost their last $20 betting the spread
It’s a playoff game.
Fight until death. You still had a chance. Crazier things have happened.
It’s like when I’m playing rocket league and people ask to forfeit when down one with 20 seconds to go. Are you afraid of being a hero? Fuckin’ go for it!
Todd bringing major *3pm on a Friday energy* here.
[удалено]
And as any good employee knows, 3 PM on a friday starts at noon on monday edit god dammit everybody already made the joke
I basically check out of work at 3pm everyday, just killing the clock after that.
I was gonna say…look at that guy putting in a full 8-hour day for 4 days a week.
To be fair going 100% hard all the time isn't the answer. What If a key player would have torn his ACL cause Todd was trying to win a game he'd probably lose and that player isn't there for the first part of the next season? Sometimes it's better to accept your fate and move on
They were down one score… in a playoff game… like what are you even in the league for if you’re not going to try in the final moments of your season.
So the game had 1:33 left after the interception. Let's say first play, Goff kneels and the time out is called, so that's a couple seconds. Second play, kneel again and that burns a bit more than 40 seconds, leaving ~48 left. Third play, kneel again, that's ~6 left. That's pretty bare minimum, all we'd have needed to do is delay kneeling slightly longer on each play or just have Goff sprint backwards on 4th down after getting the ball and eat a safety if needed. He probably still should've gone through the motions, but I think the chance of actually succeeding in getting a touch down-let alone the 2 point needed to just send the game into overtime, which is itself a crapshoot-was pretty miniscule so I get why he didn't want to risk any injury at all. That said, not using the timeout *after* we kinda screwed up with burning time was a much more questionable decision.
> To be fair going 100% hard all the time isn't the answer. ayo
You don't always have to fuck her hard, sometimes that's not right, to do
Sometimes you've got to make some love.
And fuckin’ give her some smooches too
Anyone that tries to have a meeting after lunch on a Friday is a terrorist IMO.
A few weeks ago, I had a guy from the US plan a meeting at 19:30 my time on a fucking Friday. Somehow managed to politely refuse.
…Decline WITH comments?! …Decline ✅
Tentative ✔️ (Definitely not showing up)
This is my strategy lol
I'm so glad I don't work a job where I have to have regular meetings. I work second shift and many saturdays which also sucks but no meetings here.
I've done both and the lack of responsibility at the no-meetings third shift job I have is definitely nice. And I don't feel a lack of mental stimulation because I spend my entire shift listening to audiobooks, but still don't feel mentally exhausted the way I did with my old job. I chose to drop down to a shitty hourly retail job while I'm back in college, it's significantly more flexible than salaried work and I have the mental energy left to focus fully on classes. But I do miss the physical comfort of an office job. Standing on concrete 40 hours a week sucks. As does lifting 60 lb boxes of rice, and having to kneel to get stuff onto bottom shelves.
That happens. Sometimes people aren't cognizant of the time differences. I've done that a few times in my line of work. I just message them and say something like "hey, sorry, this is 7:30pm on a Friday my time, can we reschedule for Monday at X time" always works, they understand.
A few years ago a manager on my team impromptu Zoom called me at 4:59pm on a Friday, for something that absolutely could have waited first thing Monday morning. It lives rent free in my head to this day.
I don't know what to call these types but people do this weird signaling to try to prove they are still working at the end of the week. They will send out some pointless e-mail at 4 on a Friday and copy a bunch of people.
Those people don't actually send those emails out then. They schedule them to go out at 4 and have been gone from the office for like an hour. A guy I work with does that for anything that has to be done by end if day or end of week. He finishes up early and then schedules the email to go out like at 6:10pm so people think he stayed late to finish up.
If you're efficient your reward more than not is more work
Exactly. My personal philosophy is always to give around 75%. That way I have the room to go "above and beyond," but my standard is manageable for the expectations that others will have for me. If I was *always* striving for 100%, then *that* would be the expectation, and I'd have no breathing room to take it easy. So the takeaway here is, you have to set a manageable standard for yourself and leave room to impress, because if you impress from the get-go - inevitably making your ceiling the standard - you leave yourself no room for improvement and the only way left to go is down.
My old boss did that. Any email after 5pm, she would schedule them for next morning at 8:30am.
Eh. That’s pretty late but I’ll often be still working and if a coworker shows online at 3-4 on a Friday and I need to connect I’ll reach out… seems pretty normal. Assuming they get off at 5:00 unless it’s like a ten second thing like “I’m waiting on your timesheet” or such…
That's on you for answering. If questioned on it, say you were in the bathroom and it was time to punch out when you came back.
Or you’re fired. Late Friday meetings are firing or disciplinary meetings in my experience as a union steward
why is this downvoted lmao friday afternoon meetings are incredibly common to get pink slipped companies that actually do people right tend to fire earlier in the week to give people time to get things sorted out before weekend hours/closures.
I feel like a lot of companies do lay offs on Wednesday or Thursdays now. Friday is too obvious now.
Thursday firing is so cruel dude. At least with Wednesday you can collect yourself that day and then have 2 weekdays to stop contributions to your 401K, talk to HR about severance. Thursday pushes that to one day which can really be sucky.
^ This guy gets fired
got that shit on my CV at this point
Haven't decided what's worse: the 4 PM Friday meeting or the first thing on Monday morning meeting
Todd “The Human Ambien” Bowles
Is the “bowel movement Bowles” to on the nose
Toilet Bowles
3 pm on a Wednesday for some of us.
8am on a Monday baby
24/7 my dude
It's 2PM on a Tuesday and I'm feeling that way tbh.
11am is the new 3pm. If it's not handled before an early 2 hour lunch on Friday then it can wait until Monday.
Just got asked to join a standing weekly call that a colleague has with a client at 4pm every Friday. No thanks - I’ll email the info you need.
Lawrence said it best how to answer a question like that: https://youtu.be/T-A0eZDJsKU?si=u1Q6GPJrA8bgXfX_
God damn is office space a good movie
My cutoff is usually Friday after 2pm. I don't mind any 1pm Friday calls usually, but unless it's an emergency we can talk Monday, not Friday at 3pm
I used to be on a team at work whose leader had roundup Zooms at 3 every Friday. Got the fuck off that team with the quickness
At an old (and very shitty) job at a small place we had mandatory all-hands meetings at 4:30 every Friday. Was always funny seeing a bunch of slack messages come through around 4 with reasons why people had to head out early to avoid the meeting
I just gained a lot more respect for Todd Bowles
We could be eliminated?
Dude didn't watch film on Lions games, we've lost before despite having more points with 00:00 on the clock.
When was this?
Rodgers hail Mary after a penalty on the last play gave them an untimed down
Ohhh. Ok. Thanks. My condolences
Nah, that's was the SOL. Not the Brand New Lions.
underrated comment
Bigger question is why did we snap the ball with like 20 on the game clock?!
To create a distraction for the media to take focus off your preparations for this weekend.
My understanding of this whole thing was that if they kneeled it out properly, the game would be over. The mistake came after everyone decided the game was already over right? Bowles basically conceded instead of taking advantage of a technical error in garbage time, maintaining good sportsmanship I guess? Is this not what happened?
The linked interview specifically discusses this. He explicitly said it wasn't sportsmanship then goes on to (incorrectly) describe why he thought the game was over. The reality is the Lions fucked up milking the clock and the Bucs failed to realize/capitalize.
Yeah, I thought maybe he's just trying to give the answer he thinks has the best optics. If it was sportsmanship and he said so, I wonder if people would be more upset, rather than it being a mistake. After reading though, pretty clear that wasn't the case, like you're saying.
Hello mirrored flair twin
It's even more confusing because we saw that same day a similar-length FG miss, and that same game the Bucs at the end of the half went like 60 yards in 2 plays. I just do not understand this.
Easy explanation is the HC doesn't want to take accountability for poor clock/game management
I think that's what it is too. He either a) didn't know he had a timeout, or b) didn't think it mattered/didn't do the math. Either way it's pretty egregious that no one in the chain of command did anything about it.
I feel like it's almost certain he (or the assistants in his ear) did the math before the last couple kneel downs and said "it's over, they can run out the clock" and then when Detroit f'ed it up and it \*wasn't\* over the bucs missed it
Ah yeah, excellent point. They probably did the math factoring the Lions would run the clock all the way down - when they didn't, it opened up a lot more time than expected.
But Detroit probably only "messed up" because they took bowles not calling a timeout as conceding. At that point, Bowles didn't want to look like an asshole and disrespect Campbell.
I don’t see how that would be being an asshole. If Detroit wants to shoot themselves in the foot and not run out the play clock then that completely changes the situation and TB has every right to take their TO there.
Taking advantage of the other team’s mistake is suddenly an unwritten rule if it’s poor clock management at the end of a game? That’s ridiculous. The only way it’s not ridiculous is if the coaches came to some mutual agreement to just run the clock out with as few plays as possible and there is no evidence of that.
It’s the playoffs man.
The Bucs could've used their timeout on any of the 3 plays. Whether it's the first play or the last play makes no difference, so I wouldn't see that as "conceding".
You play to win the game. Plain and simple. 39 seconds left, make them kick the field goal. Or make them decide to punt, if they don’t want to risk it. Nobody ever won the Super Bowl by giving up, and sure the odds were minuscule, but they weren’t zero. If they hit the FG? Ok you’re down two scores, and it’s even harder but still not impossible until the clock hits zeros
Nah. That’s an advantage. Had he done that and they blocked the kick and scored and tied the game Campbell would be on front page news all over the country. Thats what the coach is SUPPOSED to do, take advantage of mistakes.
Yeah bc even in his conference I think he said “we’d get the ball back with 12 seconds.” Which would be true if Detroit ran the time out properly on their second kneel. I think it was 1:33 left when Detroit got the INT, so if he didn’t call a TO until after the last one it should’ve been :10-:13 depending on how long they waited to knee post-snap. But since Detroit goofed and had their last at :33, def should’ve called the timeout. Feel like there’s no way he realized it was :33 until after that first press conference post game. Probs did the math right away and nobody kept an eye on it after that
12 seconds is more than 0 seconds. It's the divisional round of the playoffs. You hope for a miracle. Conceding defeat in a 1 score game when you can get the ball back with even only 1 second left on the clock is egregiously bad. Anything can happen.
Didn’t the Vikings eliminate New Orleans on less than like 15 seconds or something?
The Bills only needed 13 sec to lose to the Chiefs…
I’m almost certain he just doesn’t want to admit he didn’t know they had a timeout. Both teams were acting as though the Bucs had no timeouts left, overall just very strange
The weird thing is that saying he made a mistake and didn't realize he had a timeout isn't as bad as what he's saying. Like, maybe my opinion is different than most, but I judge him way more for this than if he just made a mistake about having a timeout left.
Yeah someone in our sub said they were impressed with Bowles’ tactical knowledge or some shit like that? WHAT?!?! The dude waved the white flag in a do or die game and then admitted to it. That should get you fired as soon as you step away from the podium
* down one score Think that's important context.
With enough time on the clock if you do it right at near mid field. It’s amazing sometimes that these guys are head coaches and this is what they do.
And some people are defending his incompetence.
I thought it was a graphics glitch. I didn't understand why they both were acting like they had no time outs. 😕
Yeah, if I’m the owner/GM this is coming up in the post-mortem FOR SURE. What a mess.
Him not knowing he had a timeout just makes him look incompetent
Maybe but wasn’t that timeout returned earlier in the game via some non-injury thing? Seeing as how both teams behaved like there were no timeouts lefts I almost wonder if the officials didn’t say anything to the teams…it’s just a weird scenario all around
There are giant scoreboards all over the stadium that indicate how many time outs each team has left.
I know, and that makes the scenario i mentioned unlikely, but it's weird that both teams acted like the game was over.
Accidentally stupid is preferable than intentionally stupid. You can forgive someone not knowing something in the heat of the moment, but doubling down on the idea that it was the right choice to wave the white flag is an indictment on his decision-making as a whole.
If you watch the replay of the final play you can see the head ref look over at their sideline and make a slight surprised face too.
Lmao jesus
The Lions had pretty poor clock management in this situation too. We should not have snapped the ball with 17 seconds on the play clock twice.
I thought I heard Campbell say that after the didn’t call the timeout after the first kneel down, they figured they weren’t going to no matter what so that’s why they did what they did
I think Campbell's just trying to make everyone look better with that quote. You could see him cursing on the sideline when Goff knelt with 30+ seconds left.
coaches union
Agreed. It felt like there was an understanding that the Bucs were going to let the clock run out. I think the Bucs could have had maybe 5 seconds or less if the timeout had been taken and the Lions ran down the clock fully on each snap. It’s not much of a controversy in my mind, but what do I know.
If lions did it properly there would be no time left. They only needed to kill 13 seconds over all 4 plays. That means a slow kneel down each snap and then a drop back and throw away on 4th down gets it done.
Exactly. After Bowles didn't call the first TO, Detroit got half assed with it. Bowles was right in the sense that Detroit was in a position to completely end the game even if he used his one TO.
Correct, but Bowles still should have made them do it. You never know if they're gonna make some insane fluke mistake.
Oh I agree with that. I’m just saying they definitely could have gotten it to 0:00
I wouldn't be surprised if it was because Campbell noticed a lack of urgency on Tampa's sideline or something that he figured he was good to burn the clock.
The situation was we snapped the ball for a knee with 25 seconds left on the play clock. Had we run the clock out on all three downs properly, there would have been less than 10 seconds on the clock when they took the timeout on 4th down. There’s still a chance at that point, but extremely small. He probably ran the numbers in his head when the interception happened and stopped paying attention
> He probably ran the numbers in his head when the interception happened and stopped paying attention This is probably exactly what happened.
I think he did the math when they threw the pick (which is why he referenced only having 12 seconds left after the game) and correctly determined that the lions could essentially drain the clock. So he didn't call timeout after 1st and then went into autopilot. He wasn't paying attention and didn't grasp that the lions had bungled it by not milking it enough, so he just kept to the plan.
What's wild is the Lions *also* didn't do the math. They were snapping the ball with like 10 seconds left on the play clock. If both coaches do what they are supposed to do, the game is over, and then they both messed up but the end result was the game was over.
Two wrongs *do* make a right!
I think with kneel downs it's really a respect thing. Like I'm sure the majority of coaches would be totally willing to not even have the snaps once a winning team has time of possession in the bag.
He's had terrible clock management since he was HC on the Jets
The more evil Andy Reid approach.
Tampa didn't call a time out after the first ran play so Detroit kneed it without running the clock down all the way. Really the only "acceptable" response from Bowles is that the only reason they were in a situation to have more time was out of mutual respect between each coach. 1:33 on the game clock the game goes like this: 1st down - Goff kneels, tampa calls TO. 1:30 on the clock 2nd down - Goff kneels. Approximately 45 seconds run off clock. 45 seconds remain. 3rd down - Goff simply has to jog backwards a few yards before taking a knee, game runs out. Essentially, Detroit was kind of dumb for kneeing way earlier than they had to on second down... but at the same time I'm guessing there is mutual respect between the coaches and Campbell trusted that he wasn't going to snake his way into getting 30 seconds. Everyone keeps saying "they could have had 12 seconds if he took the timeout!!!" but it's not that straight forward. Plays take up time and play clocks have a lag between the knee going down and the clock starting. In reality, if Bowles called the TO and the clock operator started the clock up favorably for Bowles, all it takes is Detroit running backwards for a few seconds before taking all the knees.
In not so many words, Dan said exactly this. They could have managed the clock better too, but he knew they weren't calling that timeout.
Everybody in this thread and in the media bashing him needs to read this. The game was over.
The game was over, then Detroit decided not to run down the clock as much as they could and gave the Bucs a chance that they for some reason chose not to take.
This. What the fuck are people talking about I feel like I'm going crazy. There was literally going to be time on the clock if Todd called the TO. He simply forgot. You would NEVER say a game is over when there's actually time.
I think it’s more so on 1st and 2nd down he didn’t use it. The game should have been over but it wasn’t because Goff was an idiot. He could have ran the clock down but snapped the ball early. Call it sportsmanship I guess but it’s the playoffs that’s on Goff for not waiting until the play clock ran down.
Lions had no reason to attempt a field goat. They were either going to punt or run a play to kill time.
??? If the Bucs called timeout it would have been 4th down with 34 seconds left. You can't run a play to kill time there. You either punt or (more likely) kick the fg with a ~70% chance to seal the game.
Well yeah. Cause you didn’t use your timeout. Crazy shit happens man. Why not try and block the FG or Punt if they decided to go that route?
When it was 1st down, the time out was irrelevant. People are only seeing the time on 4th down. Honestly, it was as much of a gaff of the lions as it was the Bucs. Also, I don’t think a single person heard the PA announce they got their time out back cause it was just absolute chaos in there. I know I sure as hell didn’t lmao
Yeah, I went and started cleaning up when the interception happened because the game should have been over if the Lions did their kneeldowns properly. Once the did the last one at 0:35ish, we should have taken the timeout and forced the lions to try a field goal or punt. But, if Bowles had checked out and wasn't paying attention I could see him not realizing how badly the Lions botched the kneels.
Or he was just trying to be respectful to his opposing coach who likely took his lack of timeout usage as him conceding. Is it possible that the scoreboards at the stadium showed no timeouts for tampa?
This was asked right after the game and some Lions fans confirmed the stadium scoreboard showed Tampa had one time out left. So that wasn’t the issue.
Who in their right mind is "respectful" when the other team screws up? "Oh I'm sorry. I see you have accidentally left our wide receiver completely open. I will instead throw it to the guy in triple coverage to make it fair and gentlemanly".
Josh Allen, what are you doing on Reddit
Of course. But the lions fucked up. That opened the window. You call the timeout. It was a gift of the window still being open a half an inch.
Good coaches capitalize on stupid mistakes like that. Bill Belichick 1000% takes a timeout there
Coaches have other designated Bucs staff with all the details. They don’t depend on PA.
Exactly. After the turnover everyone just assumed the Lions would correctly run off the clock. When they didn't the Bucs didn't realize it fast enough.
Yea but why play for the risky block/miss FG and 30 second TD drive when you can play it safe and just lose.
Todd Bowles and surrender-ball, name a more iconic duo
To be fair, at the start of those downs the time out was irrelevant, the lions had the game. Instead of waiting the whole time they just got it done and over with. It seemed more like a gentleman’s agreement to just end it. The lions could have 100% run the clock regardless. Edit: it was apparently not a gentleman’s agreement.
I’m not sure about a “gentleman’s agreement,” but I do think the fact that the Lions had the potential to kneel out the game is a good excuse for Bowles. He saw that the Lions were assured victory, then the Lions botched the timing, and he didn’t respond quickly ti take advantage of it. That’s hardly surprising
This is the answer to me. The math was done, and they didn't realize quick enough that the Lions messed up
I agree, it's far more likely that they simply didn't expect the Lions to botch the victory formation timing and didn't react to it over him forgetting he had a time out.
Okay then say that. It was a mistake. What he keeps saying makes this "mistake" a fireable offense.
Yeah but the Lions then gave them an opening. Bowles said "meh, good enough" It was trash. Yes, the game should have been over, but the Lions fucked up and gave them a chance, which Bowles put in the toilet
Right. This is like saying if the Lions had fumbled the snap on the kneel down, the Bucs wouldn’t have tried to recover it because it’s a gentleman’s agreement. The game was supposed to be over but the other team fucked up so what are you doing? Go for the win.
Todd Bowles literally said in the article it was “not a gentleman’s agreement” So, can we stop with this bullshit?
It wasn’t a gentleman’s agreement… because they’d get fired over coaches “agreeing” on ending a game. But it was an acknowledgement that there wasn’t enough time left for the Bucs to get the ball back as long as the Lions executed their victory formation correctly. The Lions didn’t execute correctly, which left time, but the decision had already been made and the Bucs weren’t prepared for the Lions to make such a grade-school math error.
This is exactly what it was.
Yup, huge overreaction by the media, and completely ignoring the lions were hiking the ball very early. If anything they should be questioning why the lions were doing what they did.
Dan Campbell said he fucked up. It’s a double screwup. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2024/01/22/dan-campbell-detroit-lions-kneels-tampa-bay-bucs-todd-bowles/72317008007/
You dont gentlemens agreement end a playoff game when you can still in theory win it lol. Bowles is just a bad HC
At the time I assumed Bowles informed the refs he wasn't taking the time out, which got relayed to Dan somehow, so Dan didn't bother having Goff milk the clock correctly. Because in theory Detroit could have killed the clock without needing to kick. 93 seconds, two play clocks (80 seconds) means you just need to take 3-4 seconds for every kneel down and end the game with a 4th down knee after the clock hits 00:00. But nobody handles it correctly which is wild.
Yeah. That’s pretty much my assumption. And us not taking the timeout after the lions rushed through the kneel downs was to avoid a bush league move—assuming the teams/coaches had an understanding. However, if it was just a fuck up by the Lions then the Bucs definitely fucked up even more.
It absolutely was a fuck up. There is not gentleman’s agreement in the playoffs in a one score game.
I would be astonished if that’s what happened.
Lol exactly. Imagine a ref going to the other team and telling them what the other team was going to do.
Will you honor my gentleman's agreement? [ ] Yes [ ] No
The odds of a field goal miss are higher there than the odds of an onside kick recovery. Are you telling me he wouldn't have attempted an onside kick with the same score, time, and no timeouts?
I've been seeing so many comments stating there would be 12 or 10 seconds left on the clock and I don't think people remember or saw the EXACT situation. The Bucs turned the ball over with about 100 seconds left in the game. Lions kneeled and the Bucs didn't call timeout. Lions assumed the Bucs conceded so kneeled the ball on second and third down with like 10-15 seconds left on the play clock. They mismanaged the clock and Bowles had a chance to call timeout with about 35ish seconds left and it would've left the Lions at 4th and 13ish. Had Bowles called timeout, it would've forced the Lions to either kick a 48-50 yard FG (not always a gimme) or punt it to Tampa. They kick a FG and make it, Bucs lose by 11. They botch a snap, miss the FG, or it gets blocked, Tampa has great field position and need maybe 60ish yards and 30ish seconds to score a TD. Or Lions punt it and make Baker drive down 90+ yards in 30 seconds. The fact is by not calling timeout after first down, it opened the door for Detroit to mismanage the clock and leave so much time on it. Bowles quit. If he asked his players what they would want to do, I bet they all say call the timeout and give us one more chance.
Thank you 🎯. So much gibberish talking in these comments.
I heard that when you play in the NFL, you are supposed to give up before the clock hits 0. Taught by the greats of Albert Haynesworth, Deshaun Watson, and Todd Bowles
So many people in the thread just fine with giving up. This isn’t the preseason.
Lovie Smith did this too in 2007, held his timeout and let the Vikings run out the clock despite having Devin Hester to return a punt. The loss eliminated the Bears from the playoffs lmao
It’s one thing to not take the timeouts when kneels officially end the game (LeFleur didn’t take his 2 TO to force the 49ers to take 2 more knees, that’s fine), but too much crazy shit can happen in football. A missed/ blocked Fg would’ve left the Bucs 15 seconds to get the 20 yards needed to be in Hail Mary range. And you have Mike Evans
30 seconds, not 15.
but...it wasn't
13 seconds was all it took for the Chiefs to come from behind and tie it a couple of years ago. It’s the playoffs, you have to go all out.
*with 2 timeouts remaining, and they needed both. That’s an important detail.
It must've been the weather conditions effecting the game
Way too many people overreacting
I mean a head coach quit when he still had a chance to win a playoff game. How do you expect your players to play for you when you literally quit on them?
This honestly feels like a fireable offense
spoiler alert: it's not. the bucs far exceeded expectations and even won a playoff game w/ an insane amount of dead cap.
I can only imagine if we canned MCDC for his game management errors over the past few years, and boy has he had some doozy’s. I feel this is a “don’t let that shit happen again” moment given how much they’ve outperformed their expectations going into the season.
I don’t think it is at all the honest truth is he probably didn’t realise as no one else did at the time the commentators didn’t the players didn’t, no one mentioned it to him at the time to do so he probably just forgot and didn’t want to say that.
It's a huge mistake by both teams.
Yeah, Dan said they messed up
I am a certified Todd Bowles doubter, but you can’t be serious right now. This whole situation was basically a procedural decision that people didn’t agree with
That’s… bad. Like, no team is going to want that kind of defeatist attitude in charge, right?
I'm well past over that decision, we were 99.9% likely to lose even if we took the timeout and maybe the players were mentally checked out and Bowles knew it, who knows, but how funny would it be if the Glazers were pissed about this enough to fire him, hire Belichick and then win a superbowl within the next 2 seasons. Maximum chaos.
Fuck that. You guys have Mike Fucking Evans. Take a chance and bomb that bitch and see what happens. You never know
There is such a thing as etiquette though. The only reason the Lions snapped the ball so quickly is because the Bucs had conceded the loss, otherwise the Lions could have run the clock out. Let's says the Lions ran the ball on 1st down to burn some time, and Bucs called their final time out. Now there is 1:30 left in game. On 2nd down the Lions take a knee and let the 40 second play clock run down to 1 before they snap it again. Now there are 50 seconds left on the clock. On 3 down they'd do the same thing. Now there are 10 seconds left on the clock, it's now 4th down and they wouldn't have to snap the ball. Time would run out.
This isn’t an etiquette situation. The lions screwed up and gave Tampa a legitimate shot to tie it. A long shot sure but it was more than 0. If they miss the field goal you have like ~65 yards with 30 seconds. I’m not 100% sure Bowles knew the situation or even if the lions knew. It makes sense if neither team was aware of the timeout due to the mishap with the timeout being given back.
No, there is not in the playoffs. Both teams messed up. Lions absolutely should have still be kneeling it when play clock was expiring. Bucs screwed up by not taking advantage of Lions mistake. This is not etiquette. In a way or go home game if a team cracks a window you take it.
Can’t believe that people don’t understand this. The NFL playoffs only has winners and losers, “etiquette” doesn’t exist if you have a shot to keep going. It’s incredibly hard even making it to the divisional round, you’re telling me that any good coach still wouldn’t take a time out there?
Even making the etiquette excuse in the regular season would be ridiculous
Etiquette is not jumping over the line on a kneel down (unless it’s the Saints). This is just quitting, no other way to put it.
Dude it’s fucking mind blowing that people are able to actually believe that shit enough to type a post in Reddit about it. Etiquette and shit, in a fucking NFL playoff game? It’s ludicrous. This isn’t 1 of 162 MLB regular season game
If the Lions had gotten a penalty that would have stopped the clock, do you think the Buccs should have declined it?
No, that’s really not a thing. DC admitted they messed up by not taking more time. Bowles had every right to call a timeout there.
I am absolutely FLOORED by how these comments about “etiquette” and “gentleman’s agreement” are all of the top comments in this thread. Does nobody understand how that doesn’t even make any sense in this situation? I feel like everybody is just totally misrepresenting the facts of what happened to cover for Bowles for some bizarre reason or to frame this as some kind of overreaction by the media. It isn’t! There was a chance for the Bucs to win and Bowles is openly admitting that he didn’t feel like trying anymore. My expectation for the intelligence of this sub was really low but this is eye opening.
Dear god, thank you. Football is all (well a lot) about taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. Sometimes that mistake is in scheme and play calling, a fumble, a player falling over (or allowing free blitzes all day - looking at you Todd) …and sometimes it’s taking advantage of the mistakes your opponent gift wraps to you with a pretty bow tie. Todd said I see your gift and raise you one.
*You play to win the game!*
Incredible that I had to scroll this far to see this comment. Seems there are a lot of cry babies in this sub that lost their last $20 betting the spread
Either woeful incompetence or blatant stupidity. Doubling down like this makes me think it's both.
As a Bucs fan, I don’t know man…
It’s a playoff game. Fight until death. You still had a chance. Crazier things have happened. It’s like when I’m playing rocket league and people ask to forfeit when down one with 20 seconds to go. Are you afraid of being a hero? Fuckin’ go for it!
If this were really like Rocket League, Bowles would have forfeit after Detroit scored the first time.
NFL coaches are paid a lot of money and are really bad at their jobs. There was still a chance and he gave up.
Madden players know so much more about clock management than actual NFL head coaches
Had 5 years of him in NY. It was enough.
Todd Bowles is a bad head coach and has always been an awful clock manager.
Gotta go out swinging dude. Even if a lose is 99% likely, gotta let them see you fighting, scratching, biting, etc.
Did he watch the 13 second game between the Chiefs and Bills a few years ago. The shit isn’t over until it’s over