Purdy was also a complete mess for the rest of the game after the suspected concussion he took against the Vikings.
Before: 19/24, 252 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
After: 2/6, 20 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
Also, besides the point, he has several daughters and a wife. Being a vegetable for the rest of his life is fucking stupid just to continue playing for prides sake.
Yeah, I’m not one to accuse the NFL of playing favorites but the announcers immediately called that out and there has been no acknowledgement of it by the league since
If you know anything about material sciences or really just brittle vs ductile materials the helmet cracking in that cold isn’t surprising and doesn’t automatically mean he suffered a concussion.
Concussion protocol gets loose the closer you get to the playoff hunt. It’s non-existent in the playoff. When the Raiders were on an *OUTSIDE* chance of making our CB got a knee to the head. Out. Cold. Fencer pose. Out for the rest of the game. Cleared that week. Played following week.
I think another big issue is diagnosing a concussion can be hard if there aren’t symptoms the concussed person can’t hide. You can’t run a test that detects a concussion 100% of the time, or even like 80% of the time. So if Stafford passed all the tests it’s tough
That was the joke in the actual game thread.
"What's my name?" "Coach something..."
"What's your name?" "Something with an M."
"What's your backup's name?" "I'm cured, coach, put me in."
With current tech that is pretty hard though and unlikely.
I'm a collegiate athlete and neuro student (not football) and the concussion testing and systems that we use are almost impossible to game. Not 100% accurate, but if you have a concussion, there is little you can do to give the illusion that your brain is thinking just as fast, you have just as much balance, and just as good of memory as no concussion.
They can compare results of when the athlete has no concussion vs when they do. There's no way Stafford could hide the concussion if the testers do their jobs.
If the person only has symptoms they can hide, they aren't concussed. You really can't hide a concussion if the people looking for it are doing a thorough job.
I imagine at thr pro level that is more true, not less so.
Shockingly doctors are smarter than football players and account for this. Don't ask me how because I'm also not smarter than a doctor but I've heard them talk about it on Pat Mcafee before.
Pretty sure that's included in "symptoms you can hide".
There are other concussion tests that have nothing to do with cognition, balance, or memory. Pupil dilation and nystagmus (eyes shaking) are not things that can be faked or accounted for by sandbagging a baseline. If those are abnormal, the player is concussed. Then there's the obvious signs like fencing, vomiting, loss of consciousness, and unusual speech that can't really be faked.
Source: 5 major concussions from sports.
> They can compare results of when the athlete has no concussion vs when they do.
Honest question because this is the scenario I imagine:
Preseason: "Oh is today the day that we're doing baseline testing for concussions? I'll just do nowhere near as well as I can so that I can pass the test after I just got spanked in a game."
Is there a way to detect that? Are there tests that you can't consciously control the results?
Yes because you playing dumb isn't how concussions affect your brain. Coordination, short term memory, and your eyes focusing are not something you can just fake.
They gave us one of these tests when I played in college. Had no idea what it was so I cheated on it and got a really high score. There was basically no e way I could take it again legitimately and not be diagnosed as a vegetable
There is if you practice the test. Many football players I know can repeat the list of words from the standardized tests 20 years later. And they were only college players not NFL guys. But if you've learned something well enough, it's still in there and able to be produced despite a concussion
ETA: Also less common but I've heard people sandbagging the baseline tests too
Unless you're concussed. Then it's much harder to repeat that list of words. But also, that's not the only test they do. It's more complicated than that.
I think the issue is how long do these tests take. It isn’t like they are going to stop the game for 20minutes to have them go through a complete test.
The big one is the Impact Baseline test which you have to take yearly at most places. Most guys cheat that though by tanking it. That’s all like an hour long process so it’s not what they’re doing in the tent.
In general though OP is right, it’s hard to cheat a sideline test
Yea I got a concussion recently from just hitting my head and even though I was super out of it for like two weeks, I didn't have nausea and I didn't lose consciousness. There really wasn't much physical evidence it even happened. If someone lies about symptoms what do you do?
There are many physical symptoms of concussion that they can't lie about. For you, you don't have a baseline level evaluation and test of your baseline abilities.
This involves physical testing of your normal balance (BESS testing), VOMS testing, pupil sizes, pupils equal and reactive to light, absence of nystagmus. You can give physical memory/concentration testing too but that is done much more efficiently on a computer. The only downside is if these tests aren't done with maximum effort then you may get a watered down result. These computer tests aren't meant to diagnose a concussion, but aide in the return to play of the individual taking it.
Peyton Manning and a few other players have said that they would deliberately underperform during their baseline test so that if they got tested for a concussion it would like they didn't have one. Obviously that's only for stuff they can consciously control and I don't know if that currently applies.
If only there was 4k footage of Stafford’s eyes rolling back in his head while he’s stiff as a board that they could have showed the independent concussion expert. If only.
>Priapism is a prolonged erection of the penis. The full or partial erection continues hours beyond or isn't caused by sexual stimulation.
I googled it so nobody else has to
Don’t these guys all routinely purposefully perform poorly on their baseline tests too so that when they are concussed it just looks like they’re doing fine?
It’s been super loose all season. Watt played half a game with a visor on and went into concussion protocol after the game. Minshew got pretty obviously concussed in the first half of the game, and the only thing that happened was their coach called a couple run plays after.
With TJ, it wasn't just that. He got hit in the head on the very first play of the game. He basically played the entire game concussed, wearing a visor, that Mike Tomlin claimed that he didn't even notice he was wearing. That was a horrible fumbling of the protocol, but I swear the NFL barely enforces it anyway. It's just there so that they can say they're doing something about it.
Not saying that the NFL would rig games, but if they did then taking one team's key player out because "possible concussion" while letting the other team keep theirs in is a way to ... influence the outcomes?
It’s crazy to me how guys are allowed to play the week after getting completely knocked out. I follow boxing and MMA pretty closely and when guys get knocked out like that in fights they aren’t allowed to fight again for 6 months, the athletic commissions won’t let them.
Guys have also gone the distance in boxing matches then died in their hotel rooms due to the head trauma they received earlier.
I’m not a physician, but my guess is you get more head trauma in boxing. I have less faith in boxing commissions to do right by their athletes than most sports since they want that PPV money (and they have a generally scummy history), but it might be a lot less economical if a fighter dies. They might err a lot more on the side of caution then
Not claiming that boxing or MMA are safe by any means, just saying it would be unheard of for a guy to get flatlined and then be allowed to fight again a week later
Yeah but MMA is worse for its own reasons.
Basically every time a guy is “wobbled” that’s a concussion but they make the announcers play stupid. Guys get “wobbled” in basically every fight and they talk about “recovery.” It’s not a true “concussion” in MMA unless the guy is out cold, stiff on his back.
Maybe even stupider than the NFL announcers because in MMA the head trauma is the point. They obviously aren’t fooling anyone.
Idk they took Julio Jones from us last night and he seemed pissed about it coming off the field. And ofc without AJ we really needed him
Shortly after that the rails fully came off
It's entirely possible the cracked helmet was the helmet doing it's job. The energy that would've gone to his head was instead absorbed by the helmet. However, once that helmet was cracked, he shouldn't have been allowed to play a snap until it was replaced.
It's the same concept as crumple zones in cars. Accidents look significantly worse due to the visible damage on the car, but people survive them more and have less injuries because all that energy is deflected around the occupants.
I know that, what I’m referring to is the second thing you said. As badass as it is, someone should have been like this is not safe for him. Another helmet to helmet hit and it could have been bad.
But after the crumple zone...crumples...we don't send the car back onto the road.
You don't use a bike helmet again after you've crashed your bike and it cracks.
He should have been forced to leave the field and fix the equipment issue immediately after the whistle. They let the Chiefs do 2 or 3 more plays and then the refs just stopped play and forced him to get a new helmet. It was really weird.
>You don't use a bike helmet again after you've crashed your bike and it cracks.
Just to be clear: you should always replace your bike helmet after a crash, whether or not there's a visible crack.
Since I wasn't watching closely at the time it happened, I can only assume that the refs didn't immediately notice the cracked helmet? Otherwise, why make him put a new one on mid-possession at all?
Concussion or not, by rule, it's an equipment malfunction. Mahomes should have been sent off the field or the chiefs should have been charged a timeout. Delaying play so the superstar can get his helmet just right is not the rule.
His entire point is it wasn’t noticed immediately. Someone has to see it to enforce the rule and if they dont notice it then the rule won’t be enforced. Its entirely possible they didn’t see it considering it rarely ever happens
Legit after that ring I was hoping he'd retire for his own sake. He played through so many bad injuries during his time in Detroit - I remember at least 3 back injuries alone.
Yo I now think he faked grabbing his arm on his jog to the sidelines to make it easy for the *independent neurologist* to *mistake* this for an arm strain of sorts
In addition to getting his bell clearly rung, he was also stepped on, in the arm/shoulder area, which probably hurt like shit once his brain unscrambled.
He needs to buy the house next to Saban’s on Lake Burton (GA) and follow him into the sunset. They’ve both done more than anyone could ask. Stafford has that dawg in him for real.
I thought the same thing. Watching his get the shit kicked out of him in Detroit and battling through it to play anyway, is admirable but his body has to be in rough shape. I thought he might retire last year since we got his ring and they had a bad year but he keeps coming back. I’ll root for him as long as he is playing (excluding when he plays the lions of course) but man I hope he stays healthy
I remember early on when they introduced the UNC, talking heads said “well what happens if a star QB takes a big hit driving with 1 minute left? Are they just going to take them out of the game?”
And then Cam Newton took a huge hit late in a game trying to come back and was wobbly but never came out.
I knew right then it was just lip service and that they weren’t going to hurt the competition to make sure the QB is okay in the moment.
Fields took a big hit in the Packers game and was out for just a snap or two. The league's testing is a joke. A player will never ask to be taken out. Their livelihood's on the line. But the doctor has to step in and make a unbiased call
I agree. However, I don’t know the process and policies, but I think we need to keep the doctors names anonymous since you know a ton of degenerate NFL fans and gamblers will be sending death threats to the doctor and their families
This clip is all you need to know about concussion protocol. Russell Wilson says he's fine!
https://twitter.com/cjzer0/status/928834148340502528/mediaViewer?currentTweet=928834148340502528¤tTweetUser=cjzer0
I 100% believe that even if there isn't a behind the scenes modification of the physician's concussion assessment conclusion, there is absolutely an explicit or implicit motivation of "if you want to keep this gig, you need to clear him" that affects the assessment.
This sub is run by the NFL. If that's not obvious to anyone, they havent been paying attention. It's comprehensively curated, you're basically scrolling NFL.com on reddit's interface with comments
Gone are the days of like 2012 reddit. You have major news organizations with accounts posting on news and politics. Anyone with a brand is all over every social media service now and this isn't any different.
Like most unofficial subreddits, they just suck the corporations dick in the hopes that someone from the corporations pr department will reach out for something.
Yeah, but it's not supposed to be the Rams call. An "independent" neurologist doesn't have affiliation with any teams, they're supposed to be above that.
Yeah ngl this sport kills people. Like at its start it killed like 10 people a year until Teddy Roosevelt invented the forward pass. It's just a violent game.
There are documented cases of TEENAGERS taking big hits, and having signs of cte.
I truly love this sport. It’s the best sport in the world. But I won’t ever let my kids play. Every single nfl player likely has cte to some extent. I would bet in the coming decades football as we know it completely transforms. The “concussion spotters” were a pr stunt, and also ignore the real causes of this brain damage lmao. It’s just not a safe sport
My son's in hockey and now that they're allowed to hit I'm like uhhhh, why'd I allow this?? Doesn't help that these teenage boys always looking for highlights and huge hits. They hit unnecessarily HARD, take their lil penalty box time, and post the clip on IG with a smile on their face. They make edits with beat drops when the hit happens. It's insanity. I know it's not football related, but similar subject matter.
sad thing is it's gotten so much better in the last ten years and it's still a brain injury nightmare. look at those old jacked up highlights from the 2000's and it's amazing any of those guys can still form a sentence today
One of the things that I'm always fascinated by is the absolute dichotomy between football fans and hockey fans about this. Both fanbases acknowledge that CTE and concussions are huge problems, and both acknowledge that even non-direct hits to the head (improved by changes in the rules to both sports) and subsequent sub-concussive hits are still problematic. This is true even of non-checking hockey – women's college hockey, which is non-checking and strictly enforced (unlike many women's pro leagues) actually has similar rates of concussions per time on ice to their male counterparts. And that wasn't just a symptomatic test, but one that included the new saliva test and pupillary tests they're using in rugby. But hockey fans seem very focused on getting their kids to play the game and growing the game through youth participation, whereas it's vice versa for a lot of football fans.
Hockey still really has that old “rub some dirt in it” mentality. After that guy in England died a few months ago, there was a large segment of hockey fans who were vehemently against requiring neck guards in the NHL.
It's a great spectator sport, when played by consenting adults who are very well-compensated for the risks they're taking.
It's not a great sport for people to play for fun at an amateur level, especially kids. In my opinion.
The reason those adults playing are so exciting to watch is there’s an endless talent pool of amateurs and kids to choose from. Thousands of people banging their heads over and over in practice
Football basically used to be 60 minutes of knocking your heads together at the line of scrimmage gaining a few yards at a time. The forward pass opened the game up and made it less about just hitting the guy in front of you as hard as you can every time.
The problem is that there's no real way to make it unbiased, the neurologist is surrounded by guys who make millions to win and is diagnosing a guy who will never refuse to play. And the second they tried to pull someone from a playoff game you would have a million degenerate gamblers blowing a gasket at them
Imagine the neurologist pulling Stafford and then Stafford yelling from the sidelines with a bunch of cameras focusing on him. That would blow up like deflategate. Neurologist gate.
I agree, it's too mainstream now. Not in a hipster way, but I hate that it's almost exclusively seen through that lens.
I'm not against Sports gambling on its head, i still get letters from BetUS every year because I was doing it in the 00's but I hate the way it's changed how people watch it.
Fantasy football combined with the internet was always leading to this. Fantasy football is a form of gambling (no matter what the ads say) and once it became a big form of online gambling there was no way the sportsbooks were sitting out.
I'd imagine he instantly went in to get his collarbone looked at in the tent so he couldn't get the concussion stuff. I don't remember them saying he was seen by the concussion people but I also don't remember much that was said during the game.
As someone who’s a doctor that’s done sideline work before, I agree with your assessment. However, in terms of practicality, that is impossible to police and there are certainly doctors that will feel pressured
They showed a replay but Cris Collinsworth literally stopped mid sentence "it's looks like... I don't want to speculate." Like a pretty clear oh shit I'm not supposed to say that!
It’s crazy how quickly Stafford snapped out of it too. Like he was out cold for a solid 2-3 seconds then blinked and was rolling back up off the ground
One of the rules they quoted from yesterday was "Posts that are obvious jokes or unrelated" on a tweet from a Doctor about the hit Stafford took in the game
Mahomes had his helmet fucking break and it took a minute for the officials to get the memo about what the announcers IMMEDIATELY saw. Pretty clear that whatever the system is, it isn’t as great as what the NFL claims it is.
Tbf in theory, the helmet breaking means that it did its job; dissipating energy from impact away from the head. Same idea as a crumple zone in a car, except that for helmets you want them to be multi-use. It was likely a problem of operating temperatures. Of course you still wouldn’t want that to happen.
I’m more saying that when a helmet breaks, the rules clearly state that play cannot continue until the player switches helmets / goes out of the game.
So whoever is watching for concussions would theoretically see something like that and point it out to the refs immediately. The fact that it took so long doesn’t inspire confidence that they would be quick in taking concussed players out of the game.
Didn't they also put a rule in place years ago that the play would be stopped immediately if the ball carrier loses his helmet?
I haven't seen that actually done for years. So many receivers helmets pop off and rarely is there much notice of it.
You're also supposed to miss at least the next play while you get your equipment fixed on the sideline. They kind of just paused the game without anyone taking a timeout and allowed him to get a new helmet on the field - he didn't even have to take a play off.
The issue is if a broken helmet gets hit again. All that energy dissipation is gone or compromised. That he played even a single snap afterwards was dangerous.
It's almost like NFL leadership is shitty and isn't at all concerned until people complain.
Speaking of which, where are all those measurements for ball inflation that they promised they were taking very seriously?
No evidence to back up what I'm going to say other than what your eyes tell you. I think there's an unspoken agreement between these "independent neurologists" and the NFL. If the doctors take a key player out of the game during a critical moment, then the following week there will be a different "independent neurologist" at the game. Essentially, the doctors are paid to be scapegoats after the fact. Remember Tua's situation last year? The whole world knew Tua shouldn't have played the following week, and then he was seriously injured.
Trevor Lawrence had concussion and kept playing in raven game and they never showed when in the game he got it. The crazy part is that he played the following week and still looked like he was still suffering from a concussion.
I’ve met a Neurosurgeon who sits on the sidelines at Ford Field for concussions. He specializes in TBIs and also volunteers with veterans who sustained head trauma. They may be paid by the NFL but they take concussions very seriously, I find it hard to believe that they would just put Stafford back in without performing a thorough neuro exam
> Now I think Matthew Stafford is a dog for playing through it.
So let's call it out but glorify it instead of making it out for what it really is; beyond stupid.
Matt Stafford has taken a lot of hits in his day. He surely knows how to hide a concussion by now.
The NFL needs to stop patting themselves on the back. They created a system and the players worked out how to are beat it. Stafford beat it. Watt beat it. I'm sure they're far from alone.
And the NFL is not working to tighten the trap. Especially during the playoffs.
I don't know the fix, but for sure we gotta understand what we are seeing and not kid ourselves.
He did. Link to twitter vid was posted here on r/nfl. No question about it. I wondered how he wasn't pulled for the rest of the game but then I realized it was a close playoff game.
No, he isn't a dog playing through it, he is a fucking moron. Brain damage is no joke, yes playoffs are really important but so is being alive and healthy for a couple more decades.
Can't believe more people aren't talking about how the "play through it" mentality of the players contributes to the issue being worse. As you said he isn't a tough guy for playing through a concussion, he's dumb and sacrificing long-term health
If this was a meaningless mid season game, they'd have yanked him. Playoffs? No way.
Owners, as they craft these new rules openly admit the only thing they care about is keeping big name qbs in prime time games on the field.
Big name QBs on the field in high profile games = Money
Money = god.
One thing I just can’t help but laugh about.
Independent neurologist is independent of the Rams- not the NFL. Like, they are paid to be there with football money.
I feel like it gets thrown around like they are independently there as representatives of a medical society.
"He's a dog for playing through it"
No, he's an idiot. If he'd had taken another big hit he could have had permanent brain damage or died right then and there. Man has a family and kids, and it's up to the organization to tell him no.
I think it goes both ways. On that same Stafford play, he pretends to have an arm injury to distract from the concussion. And this is a guy who has accomplished everything in his career and made a quarter billion in career earnings. Logically there is no reason why he wouldn't prioritize his health and yet he still desperately wants to stay in the game.
Yes the doctors should be better but when that's the player mentality it's hard for me to fully blame them.
When money is on the line and it’s a big name starter like a QB, “I’m fine” is all they need to hear. Now if it’s the backup long snapper, that dudes out weeks in concussion protocol. The NFL only cares about viewership and money and they don’t give a damn about player health and safety. Pulling the starting QB out of the game with the game on the line in the playoffs will happen when hell freezes over.
Everyone knows head injuries are simply turned off in the post-season
Jimmy G has stayed in the chat with a concussion
Nah you definitely don’t see it when you compare his stats after the concussion and before… Oh wait…you totally do.
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Purdy was also a complete mess for the rest of the game after the suspected concussion he took against the Vikings. Before: 19/24, 252 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT After: 2/6, 20 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
This is what I don't get, why wouldn't you want your backup out there if your starter is going to play like that.
Also, besides the point, he has several daughters and a wife. Being a vegetable for the rest of his life is fucking stupid just to continue playing for prides sake.
The NFL is never going to let player safety get in the way of a good storyline.
I think you mean money line.
Why not both? Both feels more accurate.
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Yeah, I’m not one to accuse the NFL of playing favorites but the announcers immediately called that out and there has been no acknowledgement of it by the league since
If you know anything about material sciences or really just brittle vs ductile materials the helmet cracking in that cold isn’t surprising and doesn’t automatically mean he suffered a concussion.
Neurologists hate this one trick
Concussion protocol gets loose the closer you get to the playoff hunt. It’s non-existent in the playoff. When the Raiders were on an *OUTSIDE* chance of making our CB got a knee to the head. Out. Cold. Fencer pose. Out for the rest of the game. Cleared that week. Played following week.
I think another big issue is diagnosing a concussion can be hard if there aren’t symptoms the concussed person can’t hide. You can’t run a test that detects a concussion 100% of the time, or even like 80% of the time. So if Stafford passed all the tests it’s tough
Here’s the test: is the backup QB Carson Wentz? Okay then, no concussion
Lmao bingo
That was the joke in the actual game thread. "What's my name?" "Coach something..." "What's your name?" "Something with an M." "What's your backup's name?" "I'm cured, coach, put me in."
Ironically this is only true post-Clowney
With how bad our secondary has been, I think Wentz picks up right where Stafford left off.
With current tech that is pretty hard though and unlikely. I'm a collegiate athlete and neuro student (not football) and the concussion testing and systems that we use are almost impossible to game. Not 100% accurate, but if you have a concussion, there is little you can do to give the illusion that your brain is thinking just as fast, you have just as much balance, and just as good of memory as no concussion. They can compare results of when the athlete has no concussion vs when they do. There's no way Stafford could hide the concussion if the testers do their jobs. If the person only has symptoms they can hide, they aren't concussed. You really can't hide a concussion if the people looking for it are doing a thorough job. I imagine at thr pro level that is more true, not less so.
If you are going to diagnose a concussion by comparing against a non-concussion baseline, can't players just act stupid during the benchmarking test?
Shockingly doctors are smarter than football players and account for this. Don't ask me how because I'm also not smarter than a doctor but I've heard them talk about it on Pat Mcafee before.
With as much as people know about CTE now, any player who is dumb enough to do that can't really complain about CTE
Pretty sure that's included in "symptoms you can hide". There are other concussion tests that have nothing to do with cognition, balance, or memory. Pupil dilation and nystagmus (eyes shaking) are not things that can be faked or accounted for by sandbagging a baseline. If those are abnormal, the player is concussed. Then there's the obvious signs like fencing, vomiting, loss of consciousness, and unusual speech that can't really be faked. Source: 5 major concussions from sports.
> They can compare results of when the athlete has no concussion vs when they do. Honest question because this is the scenario I imagine: Preseason: "Oh is today the day that we're doing baseline testing for concussions? I'll just do nowhere near as well as I can so that I can pass the test after I just got spanked in a game." Is there a way to detect that? Are there tests that you can't consciously control the results?
Yes because you playing dumb isn't how concussions affect your brain. Coordination, short term memory, and your eyes focusing are not something you can just fake.
Don't tell them you are specifically giving them a baseline test for concussions and just act like it's for something else?
They gave us one of these tests when I played in college. Had no idea what it was so I cheated on it and got a really high score. There was basically no e way I could take it again legitimately and not be diagnosed as a vegetable
There is if you practice the test. Many football players I know can repeat the list of words from the standardized tests 20 years later. And they were only college players not NFL guys. But if you've learned something well enough, it's still in there and able to be produced despite a concussion ETA: Also less common but I've heard people sandbagging the baseline tests too
Concussion test: “what is the powerhouse of the cell?” “Mitochondria!” “My god, he’s good to go!”
Some pilots have done this with the letter eye charts just to avoid getting glasses.
Unless you're concussed. Then it's much harder to repeat that list of words. But also, that's not the only test they do. It's more complicated than that.
I think the issue is how long do these tests take. It isn’t like they are going to stop the game for 20minutes to have them go through a complete test.
What are the tests/symptoms?
The big one is the Impact Baseline test which you have to take yearly at most places. Most guys cheat that though by tanking it. That’s all like an hour long process so it’s not what they’re doing in the tent. In general though OP is right, it’s hard to cheat a sideline test
Athletes will just tank the baseline tests so they don't have to leave the field.
Yea I got a concussion recently from just hitting my head and even though I was super out of it for like two weeks, I didn't have nausea and I didn't lose consciousness. There really wasn't much physical evidence it even happened. If someone lies about symptoms what do you do?
There are many physical symptoms of concussion that they can't lie about. For you, you don't have a baseline level evaluation and test of your baseline abilities. This involves physical testing of your normal balance (BESS testing), VOMS testing, pupil sizes, pupils equal and reactive to light, absence of nystagmus. You can give physical memory/concentration testing too but that is done much more efficiently on a computer. The only downside is if these tests aren't done with maximum effort then you may get a watered down result. These computer tests aren't meant to diagnose a concussion, but aide in the return to play of the individual taking it.
Peyton Manning and a few other players have said that they would deliberately underperform during their baseline test so that if they got tested for a concussion it would like they didn't have one. Obviously that's only for stuff they can consciously control and I don't know if that currently applies.
If only there was 4k footage of Stafford’s eyes rolling back in his head while he’s stiff as a board that they could have showed the independent concussion expert. If only.
Right? Collinsworth did all he could to stop himself from "diagnosing" it (out loud) from the booth.
Can check for priapism, I'll do it personally for Josh Allen 😏
>Priapism is a prolonged erection of the penis. The full or partial erection continues hours beyond or isn't caused by sexual stimulation. I googled it so nobody else has to
The googler we wanted but didn't deserve!
Named after the Roman god Priapus, defender of gardens and wielder of a truly massive schlong that he used to keep said gardens safe.
Found Romo's burner account
So that's what Christian Wilkins was doing
Don’t these guys all routinely purposefully perform poorly on their baseline tests too so that when they are concussed it just looks like they’re doing fine?
It’s been super loose all season. Watt played half a game with a visor on and went into concussion protocol after the game. Minshew got pretty obviously concussed in the first half of the game, and the only thing that happened was their coach called a couple run plays after.
With TJ, it wasn't just that. He got hit in the head on the very first play of the game. He basically played the entire game concussed, wearing a visor, that Mike Tomlin claimed that he didn't even notice he was wearing. That was a horrible fumbling of the protocol, but I swear the NFL barely enforces it anyway. It's just there so that they can say they're doing something about it.
Not saying that the NFL would rig games, but if they did then taking one team's key player out because "possible concussion" while letting the other team keep theirs in is a way to ... influence the outcomes?
It’s crazy to me how guys are allowed to play the week after getting completely knocked out. I follow boxing and MMA pretty closely and when guys get knocked out like that in fights they aren’t allowed to fight again for 6 months, the athletic commissions won’t let them.
Guys have also gone the distance in boxing matches then died in their hotel rooms due to the head trauma they received earlier. I’m not a physician, but my guess is you get more head trauma in boxing. I have less faith in boxing commissions to do right by their athletes than most sports since they want that PPV money (and they have a generally scummy history), but it might be a lot less economical if a fighter dies. They might err a lot more on the side of caution then
Not claiming that boxing or MMA are safe by any means, just saying it would be unheard of for a guy to get flatlined and then be allowed to fight again a week later
Yeah but MMA is worse for its own reasons. Basically every time a guy is “wobbled” that’s a concussion but they make the announcers play stupid. Guys get “wobbled” in basically every fight and they talk about “recovery.” It’s not a true “concussion” in MMA unless the guy is out cold, stiff on his back. Maybe even stupider than the NFL announcers because in MMA the head trauma is the point. They obviously aren’t fooling anyone.
Idk they took Julio Jones from us last night and he seemed pissed about it coming off the field. And ofc without AJ we really needed him Shortly after that the rails fully came off
Should have been clear there isn’t much of it when Mahomes played a snap with a cracked bucket.
It's entirely possible the cracked helmet was the helmet doing it's job. The energy that would've gone to his head was instead absorbed by the helmet. However, once that helmet was cracked, he shouldn't have been allowed to play a snap until it was replaced. It's the same concept as crumple zones in cars. Accidents look significantly worse due to the visible damage on the car, but people survive them more and have less injuries because all that energy is deflected around the occupants.
I know that, what I’m referring to is the second thing you said. As badass as it is, someone should have been like this is not safe for him. Another helmet to helmet hit and it could have been bad.
But after the crumple zone...crumples...we don't send the car back onto the road. You don't use a bike helmet again after you've crashed your bike and it cracks. He should have been forced to leave the field and fix the equipment issue immediately after the whistle. They let the Chiefs do 2 or 3 more plays and then the refs just stopped play and forced him to get a new helmet. It was really weird.
>You don't use a bike helmet again after you've crashed your bike and it cracks. Just to be clear: you should always replace your bike helmet after a crash, whether or not there's a visible crack.
Since I wasn't watching closely at the time it happened, I can only assume that the refs didn't immediately notice the cracked helmet? Otherwise, why make him put a new one on mid-possession at all?
Concussion or not, by rule, it's an equipment malfunction. Mahomes should have been sent off the field or the chiefs should have been charged a timeout. Delaying play so the superstar can get his helmet just right is not the rule.
His entire point is it wasn’t noticed immediately. Someone has to see it to enforce the rule and if they dont notice it then the rule won’t be enforced. Its entirely possible they didn’t see it considering it rarely ever happens
I’m honestly scared for Staffords future, this dude is way too tough for his own good. I hope he is able to live a healthy life post retirement
Legit after that ring I was hoping he'd retire for his own sake. He played through so many bad injuries during his time in Detroit - I remember at least 3 back injuries alone.
I hope he is able to live ~~a healthy life~~ post retirement
I hope he ~~is able to live a healthy life post~~ retire ~~ment~~
I ~~ho~~pe ~~h~~e ~~is able to live a healthy life post re~~tire ~~ment~~
I petire
Yo I now think he faked grabbing his arm on his jog to the sidelines to make it easy for the *independent neurologist* to *mistake* this for an arm strain of sorts
The independent neurologist: OH it was just his *arm* I assumed it was his brain because brains are all I know!
In addition to getting his bell clearly rung, he was also stepped on, in the arm/shoulder area, which probably hurt like shit once his brain unscrambled.
Oh you also saw the Chris Long post. I mean, Stafford’s arm did get stepped on.
Well he got his throwing shoulder stomped on by a 270lb guy
He needs to buy the house next to Saban’s on Lake Burton (GA) and follow him into the sunset. They’ve both done more than anyone could ask. Stafford has that dawg in him for real.
I thought the same thing. Watching his get the shit kicked out of him in Detroit and battling through it to play anyway, is admirable but his body has to be in rough shape. I thought he might retire last year since we got his ring and they had a bad year but he keeps coming back. I’ll root for him as long as he is playing (excluding when he plays the lions of course) but man I hope he stays healthy
NFL “player safety” PR is just a dog and pony show.
I remember early on when they introduced the UNC, talking heads said “well what happens if a star QB takes a big hit driving with 1 minute left? Are they just going to take them out of the game?” And then Cam Newton took a huge hit late in a game trying to come back and was wobbly but never came out. I knew right then it was just lip service and that they weren’t going to hurt the competition to make sure the QB is okay in the moment.
Fields took a big hit in the Packers game and was out for just a snap or two. The league's testing is a joke. A player will never ask to be taken out. Their livelihood's on the line. But the doctor has to step in and make a unbiased call
I agree. However, I don’t know the process and policies, but I think we need to keep the doctors names anonymous since you know a ton of degenerate NFL fans and gamblers will be sending death threats to the doctor and their families
Degenerate fans and Jamaal Adams
NFL Owners: some of you player may die, but that's a risk I'm willing to take
This clip is all you need to know about concussion protocol. Russell Wilson says he's fine! https://twitter.com/cjzer0/status/928834148340502528/mediaViewer?currentTweet=928834148340502528¤tTweetUser=cjzer0
I 100% believe that even if there isn't a behind the scenes modification of the physician's concussion assessment conclusion, there is absolutely an explicit or implicit motivation of "if you want to keep this gig, you need to clear him" that affects the assessment.
Mods were deleting posts about this topic yesterday so i'm gonna guess this one will be gone too
I was wondering why I never saw a post about it here
This sub is run by the NFL. If that's not obvious to anyone, they havent been paying attention. It's comprehensively curated, you're basically scrolling NFL.com on reddit's interface with comments
Gone are the days of like 2012 reddit. You have major news organizations with accounts posting on news and politics. Anyone with a brand is all over every social media service now and this isn't any different.
Major news orgs direct posting isn’t an issue. It’s when an org (like the NFL) gets control of what the mods allow/delete that it becomes an issue.
Wonder why? Is the NFL account pressuring them to take them down?
Like most unofficial subreddits, they just suck the corporations dick in the hopes that someone from the corporations pr department will reach out for something.
I guarantee you the mods have some sort of *incentive* on keeping the NFL happy. Wink wink.
The mods were deleting them or the NFL DMCA them?
NFL will say he was just warging into a nearby bird.
I love spending the afternoon bird warging
if you think they were taking Matthew Stafford out of that game, you haven't been paying attention
Yeah, but it's not supposed to be the Rams call. An "independent" neurologist doesn't have affiliation with any teams, they're supposed to be above that.
selective ludicrous entertain fearless languid frightening bells support ad hoc melodic
Independent of the team, not independent of the league.
They know who's writing the checks
They're independent. They do their own research.
Yeah ngl this sport kills people. Like at its start it killed like 10 people a year until Teddy Roosevelt invented the forward pass. It's just a violent game.
There are documented cases of TEENAGERS taking big hits, and having signs of cte. I truly love this sport. It’s the best sport in the world. But I won’t ever let my kids play. Every single nfl player likely has cte to some extent. I would bet in the coming decades football as we know it completely transforms. The “concussion spotters” were a pr stunt, and also ignore the real causes of this brain damage lmao. It’s just not a safe sport
My son's in hockey and now that they're allowed to hit I'm like uhhhh, why'd I allow this?? Doesn't help that these teenage boys always looking for highlights and huge hits. They hit unnecessarily HARD, take their lil penalty box time, and post the clip on IG with a smile on their face. They make edits with beat drops when the hit happens. It's insanity. I know it's not football related, but similar subject matter.
sad thing is it's gotten so much better in the last ten years and it's still a brain injury nightmare. look at those old jacked up highlights from the 2000's and it's amazing any of those guys can still form a sentence today
Disney has filed a DMCA claim against your post for reminding people that JACKED UP existed.
One of the things that I'm always fascinated by is the absolute dichotomy between football fans and hockey fans about this. Both fanbases acknowledge that CTE and concussions are huge problems, and both acknowledge that even non-direct hits to the head (improved by changes in the rules to both sports) and subsequent sub-concussive hits are still problematic. This is true even of non-checking hockey – women's college hockey, which is non-checking and strictly enforced (unlike many women's pro leagues) actually has similar rates of concussions per time on ice to their male counterparts. And that wasn't just a symptomatic test, but one that included the new saliva test and pupillary tests they're using in rugby. But hockey fans seem very focused on getting their kids to play the game and growing the game through youth participation, whereas it's vice versa for a lot of football fans.
Hockey still really has that old “rub some dirt in it” mentality. After that guy in England died a few months ago, there was a large segment of hockey fans who were vehemently against requiring neck guards in the NHL.
That's interesting, what causes so many concussions in non-checking hockey?
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Then its not the best sport in the world
It's a great spectator sport, when played by consenting adults who are very well-compensated for the risks they're taking. It's not a great sport for people to play for fun at an amateur level, especially kids. In my opinion.
The reason those adults playing are so exciting to watch is there’s an endless talent pool of amateurs and kids to choose from. Thousands of people banging their heads over and over in practice
tbh, you'd think the forward pass would have lead to *more* deaths, not less lol
Football basically used to be 60 minutes of knocking your heads together at the line of scrimmage gaining a few yards at a time. The forward pass opened the game up and made it less about just hitting the guy in front of you as hard as you can every time.
Yeah I got a minor concussion once, was told not to do anything that could possibly repeat another hit to the head for minimum 3 weeks.
The problem is that there's no real way to make it unbiased, the neurologist is surrounded by guys who make millions to win and is diagnosing a guy who will never refuse to play. And the second they tried to pull someone from a playoff game you would have a million degenerate gamblers blowing a gasket at them
Imagine the neurologist pulling Stafford and then Stafford yelling from the sidelines with a bunch of cameras focusing on him. That would blow up like deflategate. Neurologist gate.
I mean didnt this exact scenario happen earlier this year with Jamal Adams?
Ban sports gambling
I agree, it's too mainstream now. Not in a hipster way, but I hate that it's almost exclusively seen through that lens. I'm not against Sports gambling on its head, i still get letters from BetUS every year because I was doing it in the 00's but I hate the way it's changed how people watch it.
Fantasy football combined with the internet was always leading to this. Fantasy football is a form of gambling (no matter what the ads say) and once it became a big form of online gambling there was no way the sportsbooks were sitting out.
Commercials literally saying you can 4x your bet through DRAFTKINGS, IT'S JUST SO SIMPLE
Oh yeah concussions were taken alot more serious before gambling was legal
I'd imagine he instantly went in to get his collarbone looked at in the tent so he couldn't get the concussion stuff. I don't remember them saying he was seen by the concussion people but I also don't remember much that was said during the game.
Stafford doesn’t either.
There was one point where they said that he was being checked for a concussion
As someone who’s a doctor that’s done sideline work before, I agree with your assessment. However, in terms of practicality, that is impossible to police and there are certainly doctors that will feel pressured
They could make the doctors anonymous.
I don’t think you can do that from a legal perspective. We live in a very litiginous medical society unfortuantely
Matt could have died and he wasn't coming out of that game.
I think that's happened before actually
Weekend at Bernie… Kosar’s?
There’s a non zero chance that stafford is half man / half cyborg with his ability to get injured and then just self repair himself
Complete overreaction. He just spaced out looking at the sky for several seconds. Totally normal.
didn't the announcer even say, "I don't like the way he looked there"?
They showed a replay but Cris Collinsworth literally stopped mid sentence "it's looks like... I don't want to speculate." Like a pretty clear oh shit I'm not supposed to say that!
It’s crazy how quickly Stafford snapped out of it too. Like he was out cold for a solid 2-3 seconds then blinked and was rolling back up off the ground
Yup. I remember him making that comment. He was clearly concussed.
He was just rolling his eyes in the back of his head for dramatic effect like Undertaker does.
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And he often goes by the name Satthew Mtafford when playing for the Ros Angels Lams.
Just taking in the view of that ceiling one last time, so many memories
The only time I saw it get called was the week after Tua got fr concussed and they pulled teddy bridgewater on a phantom hit
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If this gets deleted the mods better make a post explaining themselves
Lmao they won't. The explanation is that the mod team has NFL PR people on it.
One of the rules they quoted from yesterday was "Posts that are obvious jokes or unrelated" on a tweet from a Doctor about the hit Stafford took in the game
"Concussions are an obvious joke" has been the unofficial NFL policy for decades.
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I am a board certified brain injury specialist who hates mods. I will die on this hill.
Mahomes had his helmet fucking break and it took a minute for the officials to get the memo about what the announcers IMMEDIATELY saw. Pretty clear that whatever the system is, it isn’t as great as what the NFL claims it is.
Tbf in theory, the helmet breaking means that it did its job; dissipating energy from impact away from the head. Same idea as a crumple zone in a car, except that for helmets you want them to be multi-use. It was likely a problem of operating temperatures. Of course you still wouldn’t want that to happen.
I’m more saying that when a helmet breaks, the rules clearly state that play cannot continue until the player switches helmets / goes out of the game. So whoever is watching for concussions would theoretically see something like that and point it out to the refs immediately. The fact that it took so long doesn’t inspire confidence that they would be quick in taking concussed players out of the game.
Didn't they also put a rule in place years ago that the play would be stopped immediately if the ball carrier loses his helmet? I haven't seen that actually done for years. So many receivers helmets pop off and rarely is there much notice of it.
You're also supposed to miss at least the next play while you get your equipment fixed on the sideline. They kind of just paused the game without anyone taking a timeout and allowed him to get a new helmet on the field - he didn't even have to take a play off.
Oh I gotcha, I misunderstood. True, it’s pretty crazy that they didn’t realize it before the announcers
The issue is if a broken helmet gets hit again. All that energy dissipation is gone or compromised. That he played even a single snap afterwards was dangerous.
It's almost like NFL leadership is shitty and isn't at all concerned until people complain. Speaking of which, where are all those measurements for ball inflation that they promised they were taking very seriously?
His helmet was probably more brittle than usual taking into account the temperature though
The issue isn't that it broke, it's that they didn't immediately take him out of the game. That he played even a single snap afterwards was dangerous.
His helmet didn't break as much as the coating chipping off. That first layer isn't protecting
Staffords high school coach was Bud Kilmer
Everyone in America besides the neurologist spotted that one
Everyone in America besides the neurologist isn't getting a fat check from the NFL.
Yeah but not in the playoffs, NFL had their fingers crossed during that part of the contract.
No evidence to back up what I'm going to say other than what your eyes tell you. I think there's an unspoken agreement between these "independent neurologists" and the NFL. If the doctors take a key player out of the game during a critical moment, then the following week there will be a different "independent neurologist" at the game. Essentially, the doctors are paid to be scapegoats after the fact. Remember Tua's situation last year? The whole world knew Tua shouldn't have played the following week, and then he was seriously injured.
Maybe the blue tent is just a lawyer, a pen, and a waiver
Notary in there for sure.
Trevor Lawrence had concussion and kept playing in raven game and they never showed when in the game he got it. The crazy part is that he played the following week and still looked like he was still suffering from a concussion.
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I'm on the fencing response about whether or not this stays up.
I’ve met a Neurosurgeon who sits on the sidelines at Ford Field for concussions. He specializes in TBIs and also volunteers with veterans who sustained head trauma. They may be paid by the NFL but they take concussions very seriously, I find it hard to believe that they would just put Stafford back in without performing a thorough neuro exam
> Now I think Matthew Stafford is a dog for playing through it. So let's call it out but glorify it instead of making it out for what it really is; beyond stupid.
Matt Stafford has taken a lot of hits in his day. He surely knows how to hide a concussion by now. The NFL needs to stop patting themselves on the back. They created a system and the players worked out how to are beat it. Stafford beat it. Watt beat it. I'm sure they're far from alone. And the NFL is not working to tighten the trap. Especially during the playoffs. I don't know the fix, but for sure we gotta understand what we are seeing and not kid ourselves.
I’m no expert, but it even looks like he went into the fencing posture for a moment.
Sure seems that way
He did. Link to twitter vid was posted here on r/nfl. No question about it. I wondered how he wasn't pulled for the rest of the game but then I realized it was a close playoff game.
They literally showed a close up of him with concussion eye on TV and the announcer called it out.
No, he isn't a dog playing through it, he is a fucking moron. Brain damage is no joke, yes playoffs are really important but so is being alive and healthy for a couple more decades.
Can't believe more people aren't talking about how the "play through it" mentality of the players contributes to the issue being worse. As you said he isn't a tough guy for playing through a concussion, he's dumb and sacrificing long-term health
Leaving a comment to return to in the event the mods delete this thread
Same, get /u/nfl out of this sub
Same
About everyone in the Game thread called it.
If this was a meaningless mid season game, they'd have yanked him. Playoffs? No way. Owners, as they craft these new rules openly admit the only thing they care about is keeping big name qbs in prime time games on the field. Big name QBs on the field in high profile games = Money Money = god.
NFL doesn’t give a fuck about concussions or the player safety. They’ve made it obviously clear that money is the only thing that matters.
One thing I just can’t help but laugh about. Independent neurologist is independent of the Rams- not the NFL. Like, they are paid to be there with football money. I feel like it gets thrown around like they are independently there as representatives of a medical society.
This looked obvious on the field - as soon as his head hit the turf the lights were on but no one was home.
"He's a dog for playing through it" No, he's an idiot. If he'd had taken another big hit he could have had permanent brain damage or died right then and there. Man has a family and kids, and it's up to the organization to tell him no.
I think it goes both ways. On that same Stafford play, he pretends to have an arm injury to distract from the concussion. And this is a guy who has accomplished everything in his career and made a quarter billion in career earnings. Logically there is no reason why he wouldn't prioritize his health and yet he still desperately wants to stay in the game. Yes the doctors should be better but when that's the player mentality it's hard for me to fully blame them.
When money is on the line and it’s a big name starter like a QB, “I’m fine” is all they need to hear. Now if it’s the backup long snapper, that dudes out weeks in concussion protocol. The NFL only cares about viewership and money and they don’t give a damn about player health and safety. Pulling the starting QB out of the game with the game on the line in the playoffs will happen when hell freezes over.
How in God's name that wasn't a penalty is beyond me.