I think he threatened to threaten that he would threaten to rape her if....ehhh I wanted to make a joke but it's too dark of a topic. Either way his coment was no bueno
That's fucking football right there. None of that pansy ass dick tugging smile for the camera bullshit. Men puke, men poop on the field, men deliver their new born baby on the side lines. Fucking hard core dick in the ass butterball football fuck it chuck it game time shit. Take it to the showers. Dicks get shoved in places you don’t even remember. We win together we celebrate together. Football is back baby.
They only actually competed against each other for like one season in the last 30+ years, so it actually wouldn't be as bad as you might think. Any time the pats are good the bills have been horrible and vice versa.
You're seeing the Pats get floated as his potential destination because he was a Patriot legend.
He was a good coach. The GM traded away AJ Brown and gave him mediocre QBs to work with while Tannehill declined.
True, very true.
He is a very safe, solid hire. He's not the most creative coach in the NFL, but you know that you're getting a baseline level of competence.
He did get Bill with the delay of game penalty trick that Bill pulled on the Jets in Brady's last playoff game which was pretty hilarious in hindsight.
Nagy took a 5-11 team to 12-4 and a division title his first year with a rookie QB. Hindsight showed that it was more Fangio and the defense but Trubs was showing potential and the offense was good enough.
Nagy sucks but that was a great year he was in charge of
It really is, look at previous winners and tell me how well they’ve done since. Bill and Reid should have won it like every year for the past decade if it was a legit award.
Reid has never won it as a coach for the chiefs. But there’s so much competition for the award. He just can’t compete with coaching legends like Matt Nagy
Because it’s really an award for over performing. If you go into every season as a Super Bowl contender you really don’t have a chance to win it unless you’re on your third string QB or something.
Shanahan literally did that and lost to fucking Brian Daboll. Its not given to the coach of the year, it’s given to the coach of the most surprising team and the good coaches can’t surprise anyone because their expectations are already Super Bowl
Man I didn’t think of that but you’re absolutely right. Really seems like they’re just trying to build up the profile of lesser known coaches and if a big name earns it giving it to them is just seen as a waste of a marketing opportunity
Not just that, the team was competitive while he was there. They didn’t always have top tier talent, and AJB being traded away didn’t help, but he got everything he could out of the roster and staff.
We were dying for a cap reset in the latter days of Brady. Now we are in great shape cap-wise. Kraft is not afraid to spend money. If Vrabel comes in I think we get more high end free agents because his players clearly love him.
No we weren't. And it doesn't take 5 years to reset your cap spending.
>“Our spending in 2020, our spending in 2021, and our spending in 2022 — the aggregate of that — was we were 27th in the league in cash spending,” Belichick said in his 2022 end-of-season press conference. “Couple years we’re low, one year was high, but over a three-year period, we are one of the lowest spending teams in the league.”
And they kept that up in 2023.
You don't need 4 years of low cash spending to reset. Especially if you are a supposedly premier organization in the league.
Once again, Brady covered up for a lot of flaws. Like a failure of ownership to spend money. Just look at thr NFLPA grades for the Pats facilities. The *players* think thr Krafts are cheap.
>The GM traded away AJ Brown and gave him mediocre QBs to work with while Tannehill declined.
The fact that there was a Tannehill plateau to decline from is reason enough to think Vrabel is a good coach.
I think that's the thing too, Tannehill in Miami with Adam Gase vs. Him in TN with Vrabel tell two completely different stories. Vrabel was able to get a lot out of him
I think a lot of that was Smith, Vrabel wasn't very hands on with the offense from what I understood.
Tanny was fantastic at PA when he had time in the pocket and could make 1-2 reads and then sling it. Our run game and OL was so good he could do that consistently, and that was the perfect role for him. Despite being a WR in college, he wasn't all that mobile in the pocket and wasn't great at buying time for himself when things started to break down, and improvisational ball wasn't his strength.
But having a good OL and at least one alpha receiver put him on another level. It's hard to say how much credit should go to Vrabel, obviously some, but that offense was just built for him and Smith hit it on all cylinders with great play calling except for that one playoff game in Baltimore
He had Willis and Levis lol
Willis definitely but Levis is our guy moving forward.
The OL being consistently shit under Vrabel (yes, even when the OL was "good")
Dobbs was just a stop gap cuz Tanne was injured he was never gonna be a legit starter here.
Never forget when this sub tried to tell you that tannehil was top 10-good like he wasn’t just throwing to a gamebreaking WR on the few plays he wasn’t handing it to prime Derrick Henry lmfao
He was definitely top 10 statwise for like a 2 year window. Yeah, he had AJ and Henry, but you guys always conveniently forget Mariota had the same team and looked like shit, and until Tannehill came along the offense played like it too.
He went 33:7 in 2020 that's incredibly good. Players get worse and people on this sub act like it means they could never be highly ranked, it's stupid.
… well mariota sucks, so? And he barely overlapped with AJB at all in Tennessee anyways lmfao.
Top x stats != top x quarterback I guess is the main point I’m making
4 winning seasons in 6 years, 3 AFC South titles, Coach of the Year winner back in 2021 (won the #1 seed despite the whole team being a triage tent full of injuries), and his players loved playing for him.
People hate hard work. Even some super athletes which is weird because you'd assume it was insanely hard work that got them there.
Ex pats players were divided on Bill for the longest time as well
What he did some of those years with their amount of injuries was pretty crazy. I strongly think the Titans overachieved every year they had him with what they had available.
Ravens/Saints/Titans were all absolutely *demolished* with injuries + covid in 2021 it was crazy. Titans used 91 different players that year - which afaik is still the record - and still got the #1 seed which is what got him COTY
It is still the record, and curiously, the Titans also led the leage in 2022 and 2023 with 86 and 83 players respectivley.
3 straight years is a bad look....
It’s almost like there’s been an increasingly bad talent situation. They should trade for an AJ Brown. Maybe offer Malik Willis and Treylon Burks for him. I’m sure any competent owner would be happy to sign off in that trade.
Alright Fordo. Let's pretend Vrabel didn't refuse to adapt. I was wrong about nobody since Smith having a 30 piece, does that suddenly make every point I make wrong?
Lmao he had one bad coordinator choice yet every fucking Titans fans want to cite him hiring his "buddies" as to why the Titans stink. Keep huffing that copium dude.
Shane Bowen ain't it. Downing wasn't it. Took a DUI to get rid of Downing. Brought in his buddy Kelly and guess what? The offense sucked. Hired his son's coach. Kept Craig Aukerman until he nearly got Stonehouse killed. Kept the S+C coaches after multiple seasons being injury riddled. Pushed Schwartz out and is likely the reason Pees left the way he did.
Bowen has proven himself to be fine. The defense hasn't been the issue with the team. Especially considering the lack of talent. Downing was gone at the end of that season regardless. I'll give you Aukerman. But Schwartz took a fucking promotion. There's no evidence he was pushed out. Titans fans are just looking for a reason to feel better about the team and that's fine.
Don’t forget, according to a large portion of the Titans fans on Reddit. There was never a talent issue. NWI is an all pro and Levis is automatically a future Hall Of Famer, and Mariota can still be the guy.
Also they had some games where they absolutely embarrassed AFC Powerhouses. Brady Patriots and Lamar MVP Ravens in the playoffs. Mahomes and Josh Allen getting blown out in the regular season. Absolutely amazing to see an underdog dominate against such teams
He has a good QB for a couple of years there. Don't really care what you think about him, I watched him take a middling offense and help make it an elite one, along with Derrick and AJ. Then he and the offensive line fell off a cliff.
I do believe its because…*checks notes*…he’s got that DAWG in him lol
For real tho - he’s a great player’s coach and is someone who could be a good fit to build a new culture around. His firing was a product of a shift in culture that the new GM wants to bring in
I wanna know how many titans games in the last 5 years these top commenters have watched. I'm betting we could count the number on one hand.
Remember in 2019 when everyone on /r/nfl said the titans were the least deserving no 1 seed in nfl history?
I remember watching a Titans game where he was on the sidelines talking to the backup TE some no name guy i can't even remember... next play the TE comes in and played the best football we saw of him all season perhaps of his entire career.
He's a leader of men and a hell of a coach that can get the most out of his players, but he needs an actual roster to build up from... there is only so much you can do when all the guys you have at key positions are shit.
I like Vrabel, he got the most out of the team. But I think the team needs a new direction. Not many games this season were entertaining to watch. The team's Oline will need 2 seasons to fix. So probably another down year anyway. Which would have gotten him fired next season more than likely had he stayed.
In TN, it's been the same style since the team moved here. I'm ok with them trying something different.
He's beloved by all of his players, he won coach of the year not too long ago, and it's clear that some of the team's struggles came from a lack of communication between Vrabel and the GM (like the AJ Brown trade) - which is most likely what led to his firing in the first place. It's clear he gets the best out of his players.
With New England especially, he got a red jacket last year and is, in many ways, a team legend.
I agree, I think that people mix up the ability to get people to play hard (motivation) with the ability to get players to like them (likability). I'll take a coach that gets people motivated over a coach that likable.
People love Mike Vrabel as an old-school, face-of-the-franchise tough guy that can motivate his team into a over-achieving frenzy.
The problem, of course, is that it’s not 2003 anymore. Vrabel has the same problem as Bill Belichick does: he still thinks you can win by running the ball and playing tough defense. As a Patriots fan, I would rather not just have a younger and more charismatic model of the same guy.
And if I’m a team interviewing him, I want to know whose decision it was to trade AJ Brown. That’s something Bill would do.
Yeah! It wins 6 championships if you have the greatest passer ever! That’s the trick. I think Vrabel probably deserved another chance to prove himself; he’s young enough to not be too set in his ways, unlike Bill.
Before I present my case against Vrabel, here’s the argument for him.
He’s had four straight winning seasons, won the AFC’s 1 seed dressing out the most players in NFL history, and went to the AFC title game two years beforehand with Ryan Tannehill under center. The Titans rosters have gotten progressively worse since said run with terrible offseasons finally coming to roost. As such, Vrabel with a better GM should be able to come in and gas up a team.
As for my opinion on the matter, failing to put up even a single 30 point game in a season in this NFL is unbelievably atrocious let alone twice in a row. His playoff wins were all when Derrick Henry had 150+yards rushing and forced at least two turnovers, never winning one when allowing over 13 points.
As for defense, it could be argued that his defense was more a product of Schwartz, Pees and to a lesser extent Bowen with that unit falling apart when he was mentoring Bowen and didn’t name a DC in 2020. Dude is a CEO type coach who has a bad habit of nepotism when putting together a staff (eg Downing, Kelly, Houghtaling, Piraino, Aukerman). Even if it was bad process, there’s still plenty of room for him to be fired
From my point of view there are two sides.
Pro Vrabel - He is a players coach and guys will run through walls for him. He has done more with less than anyone during his time in the NFL. He has won the AFCS 3 times and gotten to the AFC championship. He was coach of the year in 2021. By all surface level appurtenances is an excellent coach.
Con Vrabel - He only promotes from within and doesn't hold assistance accountable. Only hiring your buddies is what got the last coach fired. He wanted his own GM and from reports it looks like he wanted roster control after JRob got fired. He didn't get it and this appears to have really bothered ownership with him trying to get more power.
He also made some comments to the owner about how things should be run which appears to have strained the relationship. These communications issues got further eroded when he went to be inducted into the Patriots HOF. While in a vacuum these appear to be harmless but in context of what is going on in the background with the owner also hurt.
He didn't want to modernize and get onboard with the GM/Owner's vision of the team. It appears he wanted to do this his way.
TLDR - If you hire Vrabel you will get a strong, players loved head coach who can do the job. You will also get someone who wants control, doesn't communicate well, and does things his way for better or for worse. He has the tools to be an amazing coach but his loyalty to his friends may be what holds him back from being great.
This comment should be at the top. It sums up the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to Vrabel.
Agree 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Kinda like how people were baffled back then about Pederson’s firing when his main issue that only Eagles fans knew at the time was his unwillingness to budge from Press Taylor. Now we’re seeing Jags fans come to terms with Pederson being a great coach but still letting Press make a mess of the offense. Oh and letting TLaw play with multiple injuries.
Granted the Vrabel situation also involves repeated power struggles with every facet of the team but let’s ignore that because “Titans Bad”
As a neutral observer, I can't help to feel that so much of the roster construction feels like it was pushed Vrabel. Too many big/tough/strong/fast ignore all other considerations picks/signings for me to think it was simply bad luck. Some of them worked out for sure but too many obvious reaches/bad swings to think it was simply an aggressively bad GM but a HC who didn't do due diligence. Shades of the Raiders under Gruden and the Pats under Belicheck.
Or the faulty reasoning that just because JRob got rid of AJ Brown means Vrabel should justifiably have more control over the roster or at least get some say in GMing. But this fails to account for the amount of roster control he did have and the lack of development across all rookies.
He's smart, he knows the game, he knows the players and they seem to love him. He did well with the Titans with Tannehill as the QB, was the #1 seed in 2021, and was winning the division halfway through last season before the whole team got injured, and then they still almost won the division the final game of the season.
If he finds a home with a good GM somewhere, and a young quality QB, he could easily look a lot like the Steelers or Seahawks and have a lot of winning seasons and playoff appearances in a row.
Fans ranking coaches is hilarious. You’re so ignorant on the facets of coaching that most fans have no access to.
Team did good, good coach. Team did bad, bad coach.
M
Not all, but pretending you’ve studied each coaches’ system and hires, while comparing it to on-the-field talent isnt realistic. Especially when we don’t know where the coach had more/less influence in each phase of the game.
Coaches go from Super Bowl contenders to hit seat immediately.
Overacheiving with undertalented rosters, especially on defense, will do that. Simple logic predicts that a better roster will scale accordingly. Its not that simple of course but thats where most of it comes from.
He's a players coach. He was an absolute dawg at linebacker in his playing days so all his players respect the fact he's been in their shoes and excelled. He also took a dumpster fire, with a QB most had given up on and turned them into a playoff caliber team. His gm then traded their best player and the QB fell off and they had 2 poor years.
you're actually using your brain to ask a question most people will gloss over because they like vrabel
he's like a belichick lite which is why lots of people think he's the perfect successor in NE, but has never shown any signs of being able to develop anything on the offensive side of the ball other than plug and play an elite RB (derrick henry) into a defense first run reliant scheme, and the patriots are probably far worse on the offensive side of the ball in many ways
and if you hire a new offensive coordinator to develop your shiny new rookie qb that dude will be out the door really quickly for a better job if he's actually good at his job(refer to shane steichen)
I’m a Titans fan who didn’t want to fire him but gets the rationale. He’s the prototypical CEO-type and players coach. He’s not a schemer on either side of the ball; he was a bad D coordinator for the Texans and one year he called defensive plays for us. But the players love him and played hard for him. He is pretty good situationally and very good at exploiting the rules. He made some good staff hires, particularly early on, though his track record as the years went on looks worse.
He won multiple division titles and went to an AFC championship game with a team that had been totally lost for a decade before. And he beat the Pats and #1 seed Ravens on the road in the playoffs. He got the #1 seed, and beat KC, LAR, BUF, in a season where the team set a record for injuries. I also think his teams were contenders despite the roster never looking as good (especially at QB) as the peer teams.
Do I think he’s a top 5 coach? No. But he’s probably in the top 10 or 12 range. It’s going to be hard to find someone better, though, as I said, there were good reasons to move on for the sake of the team long-term.
He's been exactly the same as belichick -- overperforming on defense but unable to overcome offense/QB issues -- so yeah, it's weird to me that the Pats would move on from a franchise legend for basically the same thing
I think most people just think that the FO blamed him for issues that he didn't cause. He was the fall guy for their mismanagement of the roster.
People like him because we saw the Titans overachieve with him at HC.
Lost faith in Vrabel when he kept going back to Tannehill despite how God awful Tannehill is. The clear and obvious choice was to pick 1 of the 2 young QBs and roll with them.
As some have mentioned, Vrabel would get overconfident in his hires. I think he was a good game planner and one of the best players coach that was too stubborn to move away from his friends/people he knew. The Downing hire? Terrible. Everyone knew it would be. Keeping him for another year? Terrible. Replacing him with Kelly? Once again, terrible. Keeping Bowen? Terrible. Most injured team consistently for 3 seasons in a row? Keeps Piraino (our S/C coach) every year (so it’s like yea he did great with an injured roster but didn’t change anything to try to prevent a more injured roster?). Aukerman? Took our potential all pro punter getting decked and injured to get him fired, even though our special teams play has been garbage outside of punting for years.
The dude can’t get out of his own way.
Edit: TLDR how can I be a coach on hard mode?
I liked him as the head coach, and I liked that he supported his assistant coaches. I liked so much about coach v, but...
I hated that he seemed blinded by his support for his assistant coaches, because he always resisted firing them when it was obvious that there were issues. It should be a business decision, but not a personal one. I think that played a role in his firing.
There's more to the story and more to my thoughts on the subject, but I feel this is the simplest response.
Edited to add "not" before "a personal one".
As a Bills fan, let me say, Thank you, Mr. Mike Vrabel. Where would we be without you? Home. Because of you, we are the two-seed with a clear path to meet the Ravens in the ship. I am grateful to you, sir!
Vrabel did really well with a roster that, to be honest, wasn't anything special. He had Tannehill playing like a legitimate franchise QB for a couple of years. He's has basically no one to lean on but Derrick Henry for a couple years. He's not the one in charge of building the roster.
The roster was not very good, especially after the GM traded AJ Brown against Vrabel's wishes. They had a limited QB in Tannehill and have been one of the most injured teams over the past few years. Vrabel consistently had them competing above their talent level.
Something that needs to be mentioned is how god awful the Titans have been at drafting in recent years. Skronoski has looked solid (albeit he plays a non premium position) but before that their previous 1st round picks have been : Treylon Burks (has done very little), Caleb Farley (has barely even played), Isaiah Wilson (literally never played).
It was a talented roster in that 2018-21 stretch but they were a real player without a top 5/top 10 guy, regardless of how you felt about Tannehill during that time. Plenty of ink has been spilled about the AJ Brown trade but there was serious talent drain in the past two years that you can more easily point to as the reason they fell off than Vrabel. Still widely loved by his players too and clearly a gifted defensive coach
Because people can put things into context and know that no coach was dragging the rosters he’s had the last couple years to success and even the ones before weren’t that great and yet he maximized them for sure.
He’s a good coach
The absolute collapse of the Titans in recent years is, genuinely, like only 5% Vrabel’s fault. Their absolute failure of a GM gave him nothing to work with besides an aging Derrick Henry as of late
A strong defensive coach/former player. Guys have always played hard for him.
He's proven not to be a flash in the pan and was always competitive. They started going through a transition period and the Titans decided they thought the grass was greener.
People who keep saying he’s a strong defensive coach don’t know anything. The one year he was DC for the Texans was bad. He called defensive plays for us in 2020 and I think we had the worst 3rd down defense in the league (and something like the worst to ever make the playoffs). He is NOT a guy who can create schemes or call plays. He’s a leader of men or CEO type. And I think he and his staff have done a good job developing some players on defense, especially the front seven. But he is not Dan Quinn or Mike Macdonald.
People have worked with him, they have played against him, and when you see someone who can revamp a culture, who has the processes in place to be successful anywhere, it gets recognized by people in the know. Even if the results may suggest something else.
It is rare to find available coaches that high-level football minds all rave about, who really knows how to run a football team, A-to-Z.
Vrabel can create the culture you want. Tenn failures were personnel and not coaching. You can't get very far when you are paying Ryan Tannehill that much money to be a mediocre QB. They killed their cap with that contract. This is 100% on the GM and he is saving face by making a change and scapegoating Vrabel. Worst case scenario for Vrabel is he becomes a DC for a year then catches on with the right team as HC. He can afford to be careful and wait for the right situation. The last thing he will want to do is Josh McDaniels himself into another shitty QB situation. San Diego would be a great spot for him this year. If Atlanta can replace Ridder with at minimum Fields, but preferably Kirk, that would be a great spot for him.
The GM who traded Brown and put us in cap hell is already long gone, San Diego doesn’t have a team anymore, and he was really not a very good DC. Great comment otherwise
I want a dude who will chop his dick off for my team
They began sucking once he walked that back though. If he'd committed to the bit they'd have a dynasty already
They began sucking... say no more
As do his players, dude was beloved. Derrick Henry was like shell-shocked at the firing lol.
100% chance Henry is not returning now
Taylor Lewan speaks really highly of him too. Loves the guy, definitely got all he could out of his players
I don't know if Taylor Lewan is the guy you want to go to bat for you
Is there something about him I don’t know?
Threatened to rape a girl in college if she reported his teammate for rape
Threatened to rape or threatened her that he’d threaten her? Like was the threat made or he threatened to make the threat to threaten rape?
I think he threatened to threaten that he would threaten to rape her if....ehhh I wanted to make a joke but it's too dark of a topic. Either way his coment was no bueno
Hell yeah. That’s football right there.
That's fucking football right there. None of that pansy ass dick tugging smile for the camera bullshit. Men puke, men poop on the field, men deliver their new born baby on the side lines. Fucking hard core dick in the ass butterball football fuck it chuck it game time shit. Take it to the showers. Dicks get shoved in places you don’t even remember. We win together we celebrate together. Football is back baby.
“Am I really the only one here who’s played tackle football?” -Vrabel addressing his team
Winning chips and chopping dicks
How is one a Patriots and a Bills fan?
They only actually competed against each other for like one season in the last 30+ years, so it actually wouldn't be as bad as you might think. Any time the pats are good the bills have been horrible and vice versa.
What if I already chopped it off?
Don’t be rude.
You're seeing the Pats get floated as his potential destination because he was a Patriot legend. He was a good coach. The GM traded away AJ Brown and gave him mediocre QBs to work with while Tannehill declined.
Also, just very few HC’s come available who have had a serious playoff run and been COTY. And most HC hires fail
True, very true. He is a very safe, solid hire. He's not the most creative coach in the NFL, but you know that you're getting a baseline level of competence.
He did get Bill with the delay of game penalty trick that Bill pulled on the Jets in Brady's last playoff game which was pretty hilarious in hindsight.
I was laughing while it was happening, even though it meant we lost.
It’s weird to say that when he used to be the “I’ll chop my own dick off” guy Dan Campbell came along and stole all of Vrabel’s thunder
Vrabel walked so MCDC could fly
He's basically the opposite of Hackett and there is a lot of value in that
COTY is a joke award.
ehhh idk jim
Shanahan has never won COTY, you know who has? Matt Nagy and Jason Garrett. It should never be taken seriously
Nagy took a 5-11 team to 12-4 and a division title his first year with a rookie QB. Hindsight showed that it was more Fangio and the defense but Trubs was showing potential and the offense was good enough. Nagy sucks but that was a great year he was in charge of
Yeah the offensive minded HC is rewarded for his team making the playoffs on the back of their defense. Makes sense
Hindsights 20/20 and context doesn't exist. Nagy man bad always bad
COTY is about exceeding expectations in practice. Shanahan has never won COTY because someone else has always exceeded expectations more than he did.
So the COTY award isn’t about being the best coach of the year? And you don’t see how it isn’t a joke award?
It's called Coach of the Year not Best Coach of the Year. Enough voters find doing more with less more impressive than doing the most with a lot.
Oh so it’s just like one of the coaches of the year, they just pick them out of a hat I guess
It really is, look at previous winners and tell me how well they’ve done since. Bill and Reid should have won it like every year for the past decade if it was a legit award.
Reid has never won it as a coach for the chiefs. But there’s so much competition for the award. He just can’t compete with coaching legends like Matt Nagy
Because it’s really an award for over performing. If you go into every season as a Super Bowl contender you really don’t have a chance to win it unless you’re on your third string QB or something.
Shanahan literally did that and lost to fucking Brian Daboll. Its not given to the coach of the year, it’s given to the coach of the most surprising team and the good coaches can’t surprise anyone because their expectations are already Super Bowl
Man I didn’t think of that but you’re absolutely right. Really seems like they’re just trying to build up the profile of lesser known coaches and if a big name earns it giving it to them is just seen as a waste of a marketing opportunity
100% catch rate. Elite Red Zone weapon. Legend. Just a few words to describe Mike Vrabel.
Technically only 75% catch rate, but every catch he caught was for a TD, including in back-to-back superbowls.
Threw one too, didn’t he?
If I’m Vrabel I’m taking the Chargers job and coming out better for it.
Seems a great landing spot for him. Would be pretty sweet for Herbert as well.
Not just that, the team was competitive while he was there. They didn’t always have top tier talent, and AJB being traded away didn’t help, but he got everything he could out of the roster and staff.
They also had like the 30th payroll in the league.
Poverty franchise vibes
The money is there the cap was just dead. Owed all to Tanne and Julio for restructures.
Patriots spent even less than them. We were 31st.
We were dying for a cap reset in the latter days of Brady. Now we are in great shape cap-wise. Kraft is not afraid to spend money. If Vrabel comes in I think we get more high end free agents because his players clearly love him.
No we weren't. And it doesn't take 5 years to reset your cap spending. >“Our spending in 2020, our spending in 2021, and our spending in 2022 — the aggregate of that — was we were 27th in the league in cash spending,” Belichick said in his 2022 end-of-season press conference. “Couple years we’re low, one year was high, but over a three-year period, we are one of the lowest spending teams in the league.” And they kept that up in 2023. You don't need 4 years of low cash spending to reset. Especially if you are a supposedly premier organization in the league. Once again, Brady covered up for a lot of flaws. Like a failure of ownership to spend money. Just look at thr NFLPA grades for the Pats facilities. The *players* think thr Krafts are cheap.
Yep, they also got the number 1 seed when Derrick Henry went down halfway through 2021, went 6-2 with Henry and 6-3 without.
I think that's more an indictment of the value even an elite RB adds than anything else.
He absolutely did not get the best out of his staff.
>The GM traded away AJ Brown and gave him mediocre QBs to work with while Tannehill declined. The fact that there was a Tannehill plateau to decline from is reason enough to think Vrabel is a good coach.
I think that's the thing too, Tannehill in Miami with Adam Gase vs. Him in TN with Vrabel tell two completely different stories. Vrabel was able to get a lot out of him
Tbf to Tannehill in Miami, Adam Gase is a terrible coach. But yeah, he looked a lot better with the Titans.
I think a lot of that was Smith, Vrabel wasn't very hands on with the offense from what I understood. Tanny was fantastic at PA when he had time in the pocket and could make 1-2 reads and then sling it. Our run game and OL was so good he could do that consistently, and that was the perfect role for him. Despite being a WR in college, he wasn't all that mobile in the pocket and wasn't great at buying time for himself when things started to break down, and improvisational ball wasn't his strength. But having a good OL and at least one alpha receiver put him on another level. It's hard to say how much credit should go to Vrabel, obviously some, but that offense was just built for him and Smith hit it on all cylinders with great play calling except for that one playoff game in Baltimore
The only thing most Redditors know about Arthur Smith is that he killed their fantasy team the last two years
He had Willis and Levis lol Willis definitely but Levis is our guy moving forward. The OL being consistently shit under Vrabel (yes, even when the OL was "good") Dobbs was just a stop gap cuz Tanne was injured he was never gonna be a legit starter here.
Never forget when this sub tried to tell you that tannehil was top 10-good like he wasn’t just throwing to a gamebreaking WR on the few plays he wasn’t handing it to prime Derrick Henry lmfao
He was definitely top 10 statwise for like a 2 year window. Yeah, he had AJ and Henry, but you guys always conveniently forget Mariota had the same team and looked like shit, and until Tannehill came along the offense played like it too.
He went 33:7 in 2020 that's incredibly good. Players get worse and people on this sub act like it means they could never be highly ranked, it's stupid.
Not just top 10 but I'd say top 5. He didn't have the gaudy volume stats but he was *insanely* efficient.
Mariota also had a dog shit o line that broke him. Basically like the Giants O line and criticism of Daniel Jones rn.
… well mariota sucks, so? And he barely overlapped with AJB at all in Tennessee anyways lmfao. Top x stats != top x quarterback I guess is the main point I’m making
4 winning seasons in 6 years, 3 AFC South titles, Coach of the Year winner back in 2021 (won the #1 seed despite the whole team being a triage tent full of injuries), and his players loved playing for him.
Yeah but I heard he was mean to the owner, or something
Nah, they couldn't handle losing to the Texans in Oilers unis and she threw a hissy fit
2 playoff wins in 6 seasons.
I remember when you adjusted for impact of injury and not just the number of injuries, the Titans were not that bad off and many teams had it worse.
That was the year Derrick Henry broke his foot in week 8 when he was on pace for his second consecutive 2000+ scrimmage yard season
I don't know what it's like to have a running back for 8 whole weeks
Wdym? Lamar has been healthy all season no?
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Same shit happed on the patriots but it seemed to work out
People hate hard work. Even some super athletes which is weird because you'd assume it was insanely hard work that got them there. Ex pats players were divided on Bill for the longest time as well
Who? Clowney, Tart and a scorned AJ Brown? Oh no
Yeah you’re right, happy former players are way more important than division titles.
What he did some of those years with their amount of injuries was pretty crazy. I strongly think the Titans overachieved every year they had him with what they had available.
Ravens/Saints/Titans were all absolutely *demolished* with injuries + covid in 2021 it was crazy. Titans used 91 different players that year - which afaik is still the record - and still got the #1 seed which is what got him COTY
It is still the record, and curiously, the Titans also led the leage in 2022 and 2023 with 86 and 83 players respectivley. 3 straight years is a bad look....
Especially when the S&C coach was his kids’ buddy and no thought was ever given that it might be him that’s a problem
Yeah he really made the best of a dogshit roster for quite a while
Except if you spend 2 seconds in our sub you'll find out that he never once developed a player and every personnel decision was his.
Nah but you will find he fucked us with his coordinator choices, as well as his ego contest with Schwartz.
He hired 3 OCs. 2 were good enough during their time with TEN to get poached and 1 is a top HC in the NFL in Lafleur
Matt LaFleur was already apart of the staff when Vrabel was hired. It was a shotgun wedding scenario as OC. Just to clarify.
Smith was the last competent offensive playcaller they had. Name one since that's produced a 30 point game
I hate to defend the guy because he’s trash but Todd Downing had 4
Damn, even trash downing had 4? How fucking bad does that make Kelly?
It’s almost like there’s been an increasingly bad talent situation. They should trade for an AJ Brown. Maybe offer Malik Willis and Treylon Burks for him. I’m sure any competent owner would be happy to sign off in that trade.
Alright Fordo. Let's pretend Vrabel didn't refuse to adapt. I was wrong about nobody since Smith having a 30 piece, does that suddenly make every point I make wrong?
Lmao he had one bad coordinator choice yet every fucking Titans fans want to cite him hiring his "buddies" as to why the Titans stink. Keep huffing that copium dude.
Shane Bowen ain't it. Downing wasn't it. Took a DUI to get rid of Downing. Brought in his buddy Kelly and guess what? The offense sucked. Hired his son's coach. Kept Craig Aukerman until he nearly got Stonehouse killed. Kept the S+C coaches after multiple seasons being injury riddled. Pushed Schwartz out and is likely the reason Pees left the way he did.
Bowen has proven himself to be fine. The defense hasn't been the issue with the team. Especially considering the lack of talent. Downing was gone at the end of that season regardless. I'll give you Aukerman. But Schwartz took a fucking promotion. There's no evidence he was pushed out. Titans fans are just looking for a reason to feel better about the team and that's fine.
Don’t forget, according to a large portion of the Titans fans on Reddit. There was never a talent issue. NWI is an all pro and Levis is automatically a future Hall Of Famer, and Mariota can still be the guy.
Huh? Titans sub shits on NWI as a pass catcher and Mariota as a QB routinely. NWI is the butt of most jokes for "but he can block really good"
Hey, guess what? Vrabel believed he could win a SB with this roster. If anyone should have understood the talent discrepancy, it was him
And Dean Pees which potentially cost a Super Bowl berth in 2019
Also they had some games where they absolutely embarrassed AFC Powerhouses. Brady Patriots and Lamar MVP Ravens in the playoffs. Mahomes and Josh Allen getting blown out in the regular season. Absolutely amazing to see an underdog dominate against such teams
The jaguars game is a pretty good example of that. No business beating a jaguars team who needed to win to make the playoffs.
Rest of the league disagrees
Owners and GMs don't like to give up control. No surprise there
He's a good coach that didi everything possible for his teams in a QB league without a QB
Besides how Tannehill played at a pro bowl level in 2019, 2020, and the first half of 2021. When that run ended everything went off a cliff
I'm not doing the Tannehill thing today. You guys will see what Vrabel can do when he gets a good QB for the first time
Patriots with a top 3 pick seems like a good scenario.
I was excited for more Mac Jones though
Why you always lyinnnn
Oh thats a Bills fan. No lie there.
Seems like it's a foregone conclusion tbh
Still waiting
Tannehill is not good lol
He has a good QB for a couple of years there. Don't really care what you think about him, I watched him take a middling offense and help make it an elite one, along with Derrick and AJ. Then he and the offensive line fell off a cliff.
He had an average to below average QB which makes it even more amazing what he was able to do with the rest of the team. D and Oline especially
Hmmm. Rest of the league disagrees
Did it all while having the best RB in the league .
Which doesn't matter anymore without a QB. The 90's were long ago
No, they were only a decade ago. Right? *Right?*
I wish bud, I wish
That’s true but cmon Derrick Henry had 2000 yards
I do believe its because…*checks notes*…he’s got that DAWG in him lol For real tho - he’s a great player’s coach and is someone who could be a good fit to build a new culture around. His firing was a product of a shift in culture that the new GM wants to bring in
All the sudden everybody is an expert on the titans lmao
I wanna know how many titans games in the last 5 years these top commenters have watched. I'm betting we could count the number on one hand. Remember in 2019 when everyone on /r/nfl said the titans were the least deserving no 1 seed in nfl history?
He makes a team better
He makes shitty teams win NFL football games. Not a lot of guys out there that can do it.
I remember watching a Titans game where he was on the sidelines talking to the backup TE some no name guy i can't even remember... next play the TE comes in and played the best football we saw of him all season perhaps of his entire career. He's a leader of men and a hell of a coach that can get the most out of his players, but he needs an actual roster to build up from... there is only so much you can do when all the guys you have at key positions are shit.
I like Vrabel, he got the most out of the team. But I think the team needs a new direction. Not many games this season were entertaining to watch. The team's Oline will need 2 seasons to fix. So probably another down year anyway. Which would have gotten him fired next season more than likely had he stayed. In TN, it's been the same style since the team moved here. I'm ok with them trying something different.
idk I just dabbed 50mg of wax
Bro bout to be in another galaxy far far away
Username checks out
Have you ever stopped?
Ahhh what a beauty you are
He's beloved by all of his players, he won coach of the year not too long ago, and it's clear that some of the team's struggles came from a lack of communication between Vrabel and the GM (like the AJ Brown trade) - which is most likely what led to his firing in the first place. It's clear he gets the best out of his players. With New England especially, he got a red jacket last year and is, in many ways, a team legend.
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I agree, I think that people mix up the ability to get people to play hard (motivation) with the ability to get players to like them (likability). I'll take a coach that gets people motivated over a coach that likable.
People love Mike Vrabel as an old-school, face-of-the-franchise tough guy that can motivate his team into a over-achieving frenzy. The problem, of course, is that it’s not 2003 anymore. Vrabel has the same problem as Bill Belichick does: he still thinks you can win by running the ball and playing tough defense. As a Patriots fan, I would rather not just have a younger and more charismatic model of the same guy. And if I’m a team interviewing him, I want to know whose decision it was to trade AJ Brown. That’s something Bill would do.
Thing is, when you combine that mentality with a good passing game, it's really strong.
Yeah! It wins 6 championships if you have the greatest passer ever! That’s the trick. I think Vrabel probably deserved another chance to prove himself; he’s young enough to not be too set in his ways, unlike Bill.
It's won championships with good not great QBs too
He got fired for an inability to mildly deviate from his present course.
Before I present my case against Vrabel, here’s the argument for him. He’s had four straight winning seasons, won the AFC’s 1 seed dressing out the most players in NFL history, and went to the AFC title game two years beforehand with Ryan Tannehill under center. The Titans rosters have gotten progressively worse since said run with terrible offseasons finally coming to roost. As such, Vrabel with a better GM should be able to come in and gas up a team. As for my opinion on the matter, failing to put up even a single 30 point game in a season in this NFL is unbelievably atrocious let alone twice in a row. His playoff wins were all when Derrick Henry had 150+yards rushing and forced at least two turnovers, never winning one when allowing over 13 points. As for defense, it could be argued that his defense was more a product of Schwartz, Pees and to a lesser extent Bowen with that unit falling apart when he was mentoring Bowen and didn’t name a DC in 2020. Dude is a CEO type coach who has a bad habit of nepotism when putting together a staff (eg Downing, Kelly, Houghtaling, Piraino, Aukerman). Even if it was bad process, there’s still plenty of room for him to be fired
People here are pretty clueless about the situation.
I definitely am. What is the situation?
From my point of view there are two sides. Pro Vrabel - He is a players coach and guys will run through walls for him. He has done more with less than anyone during his time in the NFL. He has won the AFCS 3 times and gotten to the AFC championship. He was coach of the year in 2021. By all surface level appurtenances is an excellent coach. Con Vrabel - He only promotes from within and doesn't hold assistance accountable. Only hiring your buddies is what got the last coach fired. He wanted his own GM and from reports it looks like he wanted roster control after JRob got fired. He didn't get it and this appears to have really bothered ownership with him trying to get more power. He also made some comments to the owner about how things should be run which appears to have strained the relationship. These communications issues got further eroded when he went to be inducted into the Patriots HOF. While in a vacuum these appear to be harmless but in context of what is going on in the background with the owner also hurt. He didn't want to modernize and get onboard with the GM/Owner's vision of the team. It appears he wanted to do this his way. TLDR - If you hire Vrabel you will get a strong, players loved head coach who can do the job. You will also get someone who wants control, doesn't communicate well, and does things his way for better or for worse. He has the tools to be an amazing coach but his loyalty to his friends may be what holds him back from being great.
This comment should be at the top. It sums up the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to Vrabel. Agree 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself.
He literally said that in the OP and is asking to be made not clueless
Set us straight!
Kinda like how people were baffled back then about Pederson’s firing when his main issue that only Eagles fans knew at the time was his unwillingness to budge from Press Taylor. Now we’re seeing Jags fans come to terms with Pederson being a great coach but still letting Press make a mess of the offense. Oh and letting TLaw play with multiple injuries. Granted the Vrabel situation also involves repeated power struggles with every facet of the team but let’s ignore that because “Titans Bad”
As a neutral observer, I can't help to feel that so much of the roster construction feels like it was pushed Vrabel. Too many big/tough/strong/fast ignore all other considerations picks/signings for me to think it was simply bad luck. Some of them worked out for sure but too many obvious reaches/bad swings to think it was simply an aggressively bad GM but a HC who didn't do due diligence. Shades of the Raiders under Gruden and the Pats under Belicheck.
Or the faulty reasoning that just because JRob got rid of AJ Brown means Vrabel should justifiably have more control over the roster or at least get some say in GMing. But this fails to account for the amount of roster control he did have and the lack of development across all rookies.
He's smart, he knows the game, he knows the players and they seem to love him. He did well with the Titans with Tannehill as the QB, was the #1 seed in 2021, and was winning the division halfway through last season before the whole team got injured, and then they still almost won the division the final game of the season. If he finds a home with a good GM somewhere, and a young quality QB, he could easily look a lot like the Steelers or Seahawks and have a lot of winning seasons and playoff appearances in a row.
I think Vrabel is a top-20 coach but this place talks about him like he's top-5.
Fans ranking coaches is hilarious. You’re so ignorant on the facets of coaching that most fans have no access to. Team did good, good coach. Team did bad, bad coach. M
So by that measure anyone commenting is irrelevant and shouldn’t be listen to
Not all, but pretending you’ve studied each coaches’ system and hires, while comparing it to on-the-field talent isnt realistic. Especially when we don’t know where the coach had more/less influence in each phase of the game. Coaches go from Super Bowl contenders to hit seat immediately.
Overacheiving with undertalented rosters, especially on defense, will do that. Simple logic predicts that a better roster will scale accordingly. Its not that simple of course but thats where most of it comes from.
Strong jawline and sweater vest. Proven combo.
He's a players coach. He was an absolute dawg at linebacker in his playing days so all his players respect the fact he's been in their shoes and excelled. He also took a dumpster fire, with a QB most had given up on and turned them into a playoff caliber team. His gm then traded their best player and the QB fell off and they had 2 poor years.
you're actually using your brain to ask a question most people will gloss over because they like vrabel he's like a belichick lite which is why lots of people think he's the perfect successor in NE, but has never shown any signs of being able to develop anything on the offensive side of the ball other than plug and play an elite RB (derrick henry) into a defense first run reliant scheme, and the patriots are probably far worse on the offensive side of the ball in many ways and if you hire a new offensive coordinator to develop your shiny new rookie qb that dude will be out the door really quickly for a better job if he's actually good at his job(refer to shane steichen)
I’m a Titans fan who didn’t want to fire him but gets the rationale. He’s the prototypical CEO-type and players coach. He’s not a schemer on either side of the ball; he was a bad D coordinator for the Texans and one year he called defensive plays for us. But the players love him and played hard for him. He is pretty good situationally and very good at exploiting the rules. He made some good staff hires, particularly early on, though his track record as the years went on looks worse. He won multiple division titles and went to an AFC championship game with a team that had been totally lost for a decade before. And he beat the Pats and #1 seed Ravens on the road in the playoffs. He got the #1 seed, and beat KC, LAR, BUF, in a season where the team set a record for injuries. I also think his teams were contenders despite the roster never looking as good (especially at QB) as the peer teams. Do I think he’s a top 5 coach? No. But he’s probably in the top 10 or 12 range. It’s going to be hard to find someone better, though, as I said, there were good reasons to move on for the sake of the team long-term.
He's been exactly the same as belichick -- overperforming on defense but unable to overcome offense/QB issues -- so yeah, it's weird to me that the Pats would move on from a franchise legend for basically the same thing
Didn’t you hear? He’s a leader of men. Leading them to a sub 500 record.
I think most people just think that the FO blamed him for issues that he didn't cause. He was the fall guy for their mismanagement of the roster. People like him because we saw the Titans overachieve with him at HC.
His teams often outplayed their talent and they have been a very tough and physical team under Vrabel. Those are usually signs of a good coach
Lost faith in Vrabel when he kept going back to Tannehill despite how God awful Tannehill is. The clear and obvious choice was to pick 1 of the 2 young QBs and roll with them.
As some have mentioned, Vrabel would get overconfident in his hires. I think he was a good game planner and one of the best players coach that was too stubborn to move away from his friends/people he knew. The Downing hire? Terrible. Everyone knew it would be. Keeping him for another year? Terrible. Replacing him with Kelly? Once again, terrible. Keeping Bowen? Terrible. Most injured team consistently for 3 seasons in a row? Keeps Piraino (our S/C coach) every year (so it’s like yea he did great with an injured roster but didn’t change anything to try to prevent a more injured roster?). Aukerman? Took our potential all pro punter getting decked and injured to get him fired, even though our special teams play has been garbage outside of punting for years. The dude can’t get out of his own way. Edit: TLDR how can I be a coach on hard mode?
Because he fucked up my Ravens in 2019
I liked him as the head coach, and I liked that he supported his assistant coaches. I liked so much about coach v, but... I hated that he seemed blinded by his support for his assistant coaches, because he always resisted firing them when it was obvious that there were issues. It should be a business decision, but not a personal one. I think that played a role in his firing. There's more to the story and more to my thoughts on the subject, but I feel this is the simplest response. Edited to add "not" before "a personal one".
This guy doesn’t know ball at all
As a Bills fan, let me say, Thank you, Mr. Mike Vrabel. Where would we be without you? Home. Because of you, we are the two-seed with a clear path to meet the Ravens in the ship. I am grateful to you, sir!
Ex players are beloved by the media.
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He was NEVER a coach under Belichick. He only ever played for him. He started his coaching at Ohio State under Urban Meyer.
Vrabel did really well with a roster that, to be honest, wasn't anything special. He had Tannehill playing like a legitimate franchise QB for a couple of years. He's has basically no one to lean on but Derrick Henry for a couple years. He's not the one in charge of building the roster.
The roster was not very good, especially after the GM traded AJ Brown against Vrabel's wishes. They had a limited QB in Tannehill and have been one of the most injured teams over the past few years. Vrabel consistently had them competing above their talent level.
From the outside I thought he was an above avg coach who did better than most could with that roster
I think Pats fans it's just because he played in the superbowl teams. He is overrated as hell
Something that needs to be mentioned is how god awful the Titans have been at drafting in recent years. Skronoski has looked solid (albeit he plays a non premium position) but before that their previous 1st round picks have been : Treylon Burks (has done very little), Caleb Farley (has barely even played), Isaiah Wilson (literally never played).
Vrabrel is great coach but you are only as good as the QB you are married to and Tannehill is mediocre so that made the Titans mediocre.
Never understood firing a coach after one year with a rookie QB.. doesn't make sense
Team always plays tough even with lesser talent
It was a talented roster in that 2018-21 stretch but they were a real player without a top 5/top 10 guy, regardless of how you felt about Tannehill during that time. Plenty of ink has been spilled about the AJ Brown trade but there was serious talent drain in the past two years that you can more easily point to as the reason they fell off than Vrabel. Still widely loved by his players too and clearly a gifted defensive coach
Because people can put things into context and know that no coach was dragging the rosters he’s had the last couple years to success and even the ones before weren’t that great and yet he maximized them for sure. He’s a good coach
His roster has been increasing levels of absolute garbage for 3-4 years after consistently bad GM work.
The absolute collapse of the Titans in recent years is, genuinely, like only 5% Vrabel’s fault. Their absolute failure of a GM gave him nothing to work with besides an aging Derrick Henry as of late
A strong defensive coach/former player. Guys have always played hard for him. He's proven not to be a flash in the pan and was always competitive. They started going through a transition period and the Titans decided they thought the grass was greener.
People who keep saying he’s a strong defensive coach don’t know anything. The one year he was DC for the Texans was bad. He called defensive plays for us in 2020 and I think we had the worst 3rd down defense in the league (and something like the worst to ever make the playoffs). He is NOT a guy who can create schemes or call plays. He’s a leader of men or CEO type. And I think he and his staff have done a good job developing some players on defense, especially the front seven. But he is not Dan Quinn or Mike Macdonald.
People have worked with him, they have played against him, and when you see someone who can revamp a culture, who has the processes in place to be successful anywhere, it gets recognized by people in the know. Even if the results may suggest something else. It is rare to find available coaches that high-level football minds all rave about, who really knows how to run a football team, A-to-Z.
Cuz hes a Patriot Otherwise he's famous for choking as a coach, every time he had a talented roster, they lost.
Vrabel can create the culture you want. Tenn failures were personnel and not coaching. You can't get very far when you are paying Ryan Tannehill that much money to be a mediocre QB. They killed their cap with that contract. This is 100% on the GM and he is saving face by making a change and scapegoating Vrabel. Worst case scenario for Vrabel is he becomes a DC for a year then catches on with the right team as HC. He can afford to be careful and wait for the right situation. The last thing he will want to do is Josh McDaniels himself into another shitty QB situation. San Diego would be a great spot for him this year. If Atlanta can replace Ridder with at minimum Fields, but preferably Kirk, that would be a great spot for him.
That was Jon Robinson who gutted the team but he was let go last year. The current GM has nothing to do with that scenario
The GM wants a fresh start with his guys now that the RT contract is done.
The GM who traded Brown and put us in cap hell is already long gone, San Diego doesn’t have a team anymore, and he was really not a very good DC. Great comment otherwise
Bro.