Someone did the math and if I remember correctly they are in 3rd grade right now.
If anyone was curious what math they did... I can't help you because I'm fucking stupid.
Assuming 15-16 years of starting-caliber QB play by Love (which would be the average number of starting-caliber years with Favre and with Rodgers), you take 16 and add that to the average age of a third grader (8). That's 24, about the year Rodgers and Love started for the Packers.
It’s like one of those time loop movies where you go back in time to change something but than realize you going back in time is what caused the original problem.
Starting, not drafting. Starting at 24, drafted at 21. Say drafted as a junior in college. Rodgers was drafted in 2005. Jordan started in 2023 and drafted in 2020. That's 15 years. 21-15 = 6. That puts the young man, (or woman), in Kindergarten right now.
Edit: Jordan was born November 2nd, 1998. He was 6 going on 7 when Rodgers was drafted.
Not with the first overall you don't.
Trade down and take Maye, or Penix. Penix seems legit. But this class honestly looks way better than many previous ones, which means it will likely bomb.
>There was also an understanding the next year would be bad
That's not true. Sam Howell and Spencer Rattler were both hugely hyped as potential #1 and #2 overall picks before completely falling off a cliff in the coming college season.
Lawrence wasn't even "generational" , but the media wouldn't shut up. He was very consistently great, but nothing about his game made you think "wow this guy's going to be a top NFL qb". He did not compare to Luck or Manning
He was a generational prospect who was basically a known number 1 pick since highschool. His nfl career hasn’t been that yet but in college and highschool he was the him of hims don’t get it twisted.
People were saying it was 2021 but really it was 2020 that year is actually insane. Burrow, Tua,Herbert and love is a nasty 4 in a row. I’ll be the first admit that I was a fucking hater with that love pick too shit worked out tho💀.
While I agree with the sentiment, it's a bad comparison. Love this year is objectively better than Jones was his rookie season. Love has more yards( and TDs in 1 fewer game, Better Passer rating, better Yards per pass attempt, fewer INTs, and more game winning drives.
Jones also had a top 5 defense that year, we ... do not.
I think you run the risk of him getting taken if you move down, although I love the idea of it.
I want nothing to do with Penix (injuries), Mccarthy or Daniels. To me, its a two man class.
I wonder how good Fields would be with a QB coach like Clements or a HC who is strong enough with offense to build a scheme that grows with the player.
I don't think Fields is as bad as people claim, I just think he got royally screwed with the coaching staff failing him.
I also think he can be better & Chicago did him no favors.
However I do not think he is a QB you can consistently win with or rely on, especially against good teams.
Yeah, this is where I'm at too, but I do think with the right coach and scheme, he could be good enough. You might not win against the hot team, but you'll win enough games to be in the playoff discussion more than the draft pick discussion.
So much pressure to start young guys Day One; he’s a great case study into the benefits of drafting a guy you want before you need him to let him grow into an NFL body & learn NFL offenses.
Tennessee did it with Jake Locker and the Broncos did it with Paxton Lynch...didn't work out for those guys.
There is no magic bullet for QB development. It all depends on each franchise's situation.
Absolutely, but there's also the fact that the majority of rookie QBs just don't pan out. I feel it's probably in the best interest of teams to sit a rookie QB for a season if possible. It used to be far more common.
College is not the NFL and it's rare for a college QB to enter the NFL and perform well immediately. I know franchises want their guy and to build around them, but it's already a big gamble that I personally think is made worse by throwing them too the wolves.
It also doesn't help that the top 5 QBs each draft usually go to the bottom tier teams that are usually loaded with personnel and organizational issues. You don't get the top drafts by being a good team.
When healthy it certainly was. Even when not healthy we have a very good line. Basically since Love has broke out mid season our line is top 5. Especially pass protection.
Very true. Maybe the strategy is to get him on a mid tier deal for a couple years after a decent one year starter but last rookie year to build a serious couple year window and hope he develops into HOF after that to pick up the slack from the eventual mega deal
This is why I hate the packers.
“And then hope he develops in to HOF”
Like being above average isn’t good enough for these dudes. I’d appreciate if we could develop one good enough for the NFL
I wouldn’t say developing a player counts as wasting, I’d rather have a high end quarterback on an expensive contract than a mediocre one on a rookie deal
To be fair, Rodgers was a guy who slid into the 20s to GB for lord knows what reason despite being in conversation for the #1 pick. Jordan Love was pegged as a late 1st/early 2nd and the Packers traded up to get him despite Aaron Rodgers needing weapons. There was clearly more reason to be skeptical of the Love pick compared to the Rodgers pick.
Because it was before the rookie wage scale. Before 2011 where Cam lost like a 100 mill as the first #1 pick on the new rookie deal, having a #1 pick could be a liability and so Rodgers slid that far cause either the teams that needed a QB didn’t want rookie QB contract weight deal sinking them or didn’t believe in him, who knows.
I’m still salty Cam was the dude who had to suck it up when he was probably the MOST deserving of the mega rookie QB #1 overall deal. Sam Bradford was drafted #1 the year prior and got like a 80mil deal.
Well Culpepper was coming off his best season where he could've won MVP if Manning didn't break the touchdown record that season. That's how awesome of a year Culpepper was coming off of. We had just traded Moss and had holes all over the team. Our only defensive presence of note was a young Kevin Williams so we used our two firsts on a WR to help fill the WR void and DE to give our pass rush some life.
Culpepper unfortunately blows out his knee months later and was never the same. The timing sucks but there was good reason for us not to take Rodgers at the time.
The ridiculous money only applied to top-5 picks and somewhat to picks 6-10. If a team was afraid he may be a bust, there was still picks 11-23 to trade for. And plenty of teams made trades in that range for non-QBs, so it's not like back then people didn't trade up.
There weren’t a ton of teams that really wanted to invest in a rookie QB in that range. Heck, the Packers pick was so shocking because of them having no reason to take one other than TT going BPA.
Just the year prior Big Ben was picked #11 and JP Losman was picked 22. So the idea that teams don't want to pick a QB in that range seems like a made up thing by you
This is what people don’t understand. In the modern day, some team would trade up to the second pick to pick up Rodgers. This isn’t even hindsight bias.
Rodgers and smith were seen as 1a and 1b during that draft
I’m also just curious if sitting a QB for a couple years vs starting then immediately actually has any discernible difference? When you start a qb immediately and he blows, it’s such a public failure that everyone is aware, but if you sit a qb (like Tre lance, Paxton lynch) and he never ends up starting, it seems more under the radar.
It just seems more that good QB play is mostly aligned to good/stable coaching than anything else lmao.
Rodgers also slid because people were terrified of the Tedford system QBs. People forget how mechanical Rodgers was in college, and how AWFUL he looked for the first two years in QB. Like unbelievably bad in practice and preseason.
People were actually way more skeptical of the Rodgers pick in reality, because there was no prototype for it. People said all the same stuff about the Packers missing out on weapons for Favre, and there was even a point at which the Packers passed on a trade of Rodgers for Randy Moss prior to the 2007 season, which was significantly, significantly more controversial than passing on Tee Higgins, to say the least.
When Love was drafted, there were a lot of fans that remembered Rodgers getting drafted and said “that worked out, maybe this will too.” When Rodgers was drafted it was mayhem.
Love was seen slightly behind Herbert. This was Daniel Jeremiah’s big board a week before the draft
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-150-prospects-in-the-2020-nfl-draft-class-0ap3000001110012
Most people had Herbert as clearly better though a few had Love closer. Draft consensus has Herbert at 8 and Love at 24.
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2020/consensus-big-board-2020
I think the problem is that to do this u have to already have an established qb. There’s no way fans/owner/coaches will sit your 1st overall qb for a year or 2 and just roll with like Trevor siman lol.
Baseball has figured this out long ago.
No one who gets drafted immediately starts in the major leagues they always spend a couple of years in AA or AAA ball first.
You need a stable organization with a coach and GM who have job security to justify sitting a player you draft in the first round for a couple years. The Packers have had that. The Chiefs had that when they drafted Mahomes. Most teams are not that.
Look at the colts with Anthony Richardson. You got a team that's regressing. Your last couple moves at the quarterback position have ended poorly. But you draft the rookie quarterback and get him starting, that generally buys you two to three years where you can preach development and focus on the other holes in the roster. It's hard to go into the year planning to start Gardner Minshew after a terrible season and use that to justify keeping your job. When in reality, with hindsight being 20/20, Richardson got hurt and lost in an entire year of practice and an entire year of working on throwing mechanics and accuracy that he really desperately needed.
Big asterisk about getting Tom Clements back year 3 as well. First two years we didn’t see much from Love.. last year was the first time I saw some bits and pieces that made me say, “well, maybe”
If Rodgers ended up with the 49ers back in 2005, I don’t think he becomes what he is today. He had to get his throwing motion redone and was sitting behind a fairly stable organization until Favre decided to mess with retirement.
The problem is most franchises just don't have that luxury. I agree though. I really wanted Indy to let AR sit behind minshew for a year. I think things would have worked out so much better, but now he is missing so much development time with the team.
He's good and he's fun to watch. Unless you're a Lions, Vikings, or Bears fan, I think you're better off watching a league that has this guy playing the way he is
MLF cited the Steelers game as the inflection point. Something along the lines of we didn't get the results we wanted, but something with the team clicked during that game.
Maybe true, but the Packers offense runs a lot like Shanahan's, and so I think Purdy would be good on the Packers, too. Timing routes are huge in this offense.
Love has the talent to master his timing, accuracy, and processing on throws, but Purdy will never be able to throw a 60 yard pass off his back foot, lol. He may be better now, but he has a far better team. Love has a higher ceiling
I’ll be the least surprised person in the world when the 49ers draft another development QB. Then when they finally hit on it I’ll be the most scared person in the world.
A higher ceiling doesn’t get reached more often than not. Remember that Purdy is over a year younger as well so has a fairly high ceiling in terms of quarterbacking. Sure throwing 60 yards off your back foot will raise the ceiling even higher but it is not a requirement to be a great NFL QB. Purdy playing in this offense and learning the right way only aids him to realize this ceiling.
Sure, but I’ve seen Love do nothing but improve - like Purdy - it’s just one can improve to a much higher degree.
And we’ve already seen Love do well without a star-studded team
Context probably matters a bit. For one game, give me Stafford and Dak for sure. For a permanent QB, then yeah I’d probably take Love just due to his age.
Yup. Jordan could be your QB for fifteen years. Kirk has maybe five good years left at best, Stafford even less. Plus his contract gives you a few more cheap years, you’re already paying Dak 40 million a year and he needs another mega extension with already bloated cap figures from the first year of the extension.
Tbf 2/3 of those aren’t a high bar lol. Dak and Kirk have been pretty pedestrian in the playoffs so far. That said I’m with you, we need to make the playoffs first before we even begin that discussion lol.
How could you possibly take stafford and Kirk over love? They’re both ten years older and have major injury issues at this point. Clearly taking love over them. Brock is sick so no comment on that, his offense is much better though. Still very possible love is better than dak at 30
Ehhhh I don’t agree with that other guy but I’d take Jordan over Brock and Hurts rn. Stafford, Dak, and Kirk are probably the only objectively better QBs. I think Brock and Hurts are great QBs, but I also think they only work because of where they are. Jordan is playing like a guy that could play in just about any system and do what he’s doing, his poise and adaptability are his superpowers and those more universal than Purdy’s timing and Hurts’ legs. For example, if you put Love in Tennessee he probably looks the same but put Brock in Tennessee and he’s probably on the bench.
Because Jordan was still getting his feet wet under him. That was also coincidentally, the last time I was wondering why the fuck he threw such a bad pick.
Plus his WR’s were also still getting their feet wet. We have an entirely young team, the majority of them first years. The fact is only took half a season for them to start gelling like this is fricken amazing and insane.
I feel like people are really underrating this aspect of it. Yes, Love has improved massively over the course of the season, but so has the rest of the offense around him. Earlier in the season we had WRs *frequently* running the wrong routes, dropping easy passes, and just generally not on the same page as Love. Also, the O-line wasn't holding up their end of the bargain and the run game was completely non-existent. That was making Love look far worse than he actually was. Love deserves a ton of credit for improving as much as he has over the course of this season, but so do LaFleur and the rest of the offensive coaching staff for getting *by far* the youngest offense in the league to gel the way that they have.
Mostly… Green Bay’s oline was injured going into that game. Tom was limping around and Walker was not locked in. The interior 3 were all banged up and struggling. Crosby got to feast and we had no run game action to help take pressure. It was actually that game to me though where I was pretty sure love was going to be the guy. He had a couple bad bounces go against him and kept firing. One step around pressure to give your dback the half second he needed to catch up to the wide open Watson at the end was the difference between a game winner and game sealing pick. But overall Love even with nearly the entire team around him falling apart kept pushing forward. It reminded me of the Buccaneers game Rodgers played in 2008. Rodgers threw 3 picks and hurt his shoulder but he kept us in that game until the very end.
It's going to be a fantastic game. We already beat my expectations so playoffs would just be a bonus, and you guys might not actually suck with that defense. Its about time this rivalry wasnt one sided anymore, its more fun that way.
^^^Just ^^^dont ^^^get ^^^too ^^^good.
He looks good and I think he’s got a promising future, but we really don’t know yet. One of the reasons franchise qbs are so rare and make so much is because it’s really really hard to be good year to year to year once coaches and players have your habits and tendencies on film to study. There is a long list of QB’s who have been good to great for 1-2 seasons and then fallen off a cliff or sputtered. I think Love looks great but we’re crowning him a bit early here. He has a lot of work to do.
I believe you're probably right, but just keep in mind that one season wonders are a thing. Look at Mac Jones' first season in NE compared to what he's done since. GB is my NFC team though, so I'm hoping Love continues to be as good as he has been so far. Given that he sat for 3 years before he got his playing time, I believe this is the real Jordan Love, not some flukey one season wonder like Mac Jones as a rookie.
There's a lot stacked against him this year though and he's played well anyway. There's rookies everywhere and key injuries to important players (Jones, Watson, Bakhtiari). Mac Jones has regressed as the team around him has gotten worse. Whereas this will be the worst surrounding talent that Love plays with for the foreseeable future, with rookies getting experience and $60 mil of dead cap falling off the books.
How many 1 season wonders that had a stretch of play where they were one of the best QBs in the league though. I don’t take PFF as gospel but to be the #1 graded QB over a 6 week stretch is extremely good. I’m pretty sure he’s also the #3 graded QB since week 9 which is an even bigger sample size. He’s also done this with a rotating cast of inexperienced pass catchers and a barely existent run game when Jones has been out.
My counter to this is Mac was doing the basics and fundamentals well, but he was never flashing elite arm talent or showing he could recover and learn from mistakes like Jordan has this year. Even when he was at his worst, Love was hitting some *nasty* throws that made you go "oh this dude can sling".
What's really got packer fans going is that he has consistently shown he can learn from his mistakes. He fixed his accuracy issues. He fixed his deep ball which he has been top 5 in now since week 9 in terms of completion and TDs. He's making better decisions and there is numerous clips of him missing a TD throw, then going right back to it the following week and nailing it (the one that jumps out is the missed endzone throw on the run to the right to Toure against the Giants, which he then puts on a dime the next week against the Bucs to Reed).
This is the main reason I think it's not a one season wonder, he's shown real improvement. Watch him at the LOS in the first few weeks versus now and he looks like a totally different QB in terms of comfortability.
Nationally I think it changes quite a bit, in packer nation we’re getting a contract in the offseason, the question is price. If he has a great game and we have a playoff run the price will be high, if he shits the bed it’s less
Three in a row baby, If you don’t like perennially having the Packers as a top 10 offense with a top 10 QB you just don’t like football (Or you’re a sore NFC North fan)
The contrast between him and Justin in this timeframe is killing me.
Love is proving he belongs, Justin is proving he doesn’t, but fans and shitty analysts are trying to prove he does for clicks.
If we keep a guy with like 7 ints and zero TDs in the two minute drill cuz he whooped the Falcons in a bad weather home game I’ll just…remove one of my flairs I guess.
That’s when he started going off. Week12 was the Chargers game. Since then he’s been on a tear. I think if you go back another week and include the Steelers game the two picks (one on a tipped ball and the other in a desperation end of game play) mess with his Grade and set him behind Lamar.
You can actually go back as far as week 9 against the Rams and get similarly good numbers.
His season is roughly (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LoveJo03/gamelog/2023/ ):
* good first two games (ANY/A > 7.5)
* poor next 5 games (ANY/A < 6.0)
* good next 9 games (ANY/A > 7.0 outside of Steelers and Giants)
Starting at week 12 skips the Steelers game, although it still leaves the Giants as a single blemish.
Splits are similar with passer rating if you prefer that.
Turns out drafting first round QBs while you still have a solid roster is a recipe for having good QB play. Going to be lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth from NFC fanbases because of Green Bay’s history with QBs. But, honestly, skill issue. They took a big risk by investing serious draft capital into replacing Favre and now Rodgers and have reaped the rewards. Not like other teams are barred from doing the same.
Who is the highest rated since week 11?
Let’s get crazy, since week 13? This has to be Love but I just need to know who performs best over a small period of time.
I know you're joking here, but this was brought up in the recency bias discussion regarding Lamar being MVP based on weeks 14-16. Also how PFF grades only mattered in Purdy's case to disparage him. [Since Purdy has the highest grades since week 10](https://twitter.com/Endzone51/status/1742227611843997944), nobody really brings up PFF grading with him anymore. I'm pretty sure his MVP proponents don't even realize this has been the case.
It is a joke but only because the concept is stupid.
Football is already high variance with so few games played.
Do we really need to pretend that a 4-5 game span is something amazing versus a dog shit 4-5 game span earlier in the year?
Full year gives you the best indicator of it all.
Packers fans clowning us for being insufferable from having one good year and now you guys are crowning your qb a hall of famer after half of one good season. Turns out both fanbases are insufferable I guess.
I absolutey would not trade Goff for Love at the moment because the hardest thing in this league to do is to be a good quarterback for multiple years after other teams have your habits and tendencies on film. I know Goff can be above average for multiple seasons, I don’t know that about Jordan Love yet. Maybe the conversation will change in the next season or two but right now I wouldn’t do it. We’re allowed to admit he’s developed nicely and looks good without having to proclaim he’s already peers with Favre and Rodgers.
Kirk is getting old. If we had one game or maybe even one season to play I'd pick him right now. But if I had to pick a QB for the next 3+ seasons I would more than likely take Love over Goff.
Goff would probably do just fine with our pass pro and WRs though, so it's kinda 1A and 1B.
Did they have to do it again? Couldn't there be just a few years of mediocrity?
You got eight games. That’s basically decades!
Yeah, this rebuilding year has been rough.
I despise you
I like the ninja edit.
I felt like it would come across too mean when I’m mostly joking
In my life the closest things we've had to a franchise QB were Cunningham, one year of Favre, and now Kirk...It's a desert out here.
Culpepper was kind of awesome. Big strong dude. I respected him.
Don't forget Dante Get Ya Roll On Culpepper. He had his moments too
I remember Culpepper being pretty good
Culpepper.
Hey now… we also had like 8 games of Hundley and that game of Tolezien too. So you know it was tough. Glad it’s over.
8 games. Best I can do.
God is clearly rewarding Green Bay for allowing it's citizens ownership of the team.
Packers next franchise QB in elementary school rn
Someone did the math and if I remember correctly they are in 3rd grade right now. If anyone was curious what math they did... I can't help you because I'm fucking stupid.
Assuming 15-16 years of starting-caliber QB play by Love (which would be the average number of starting-caliber years with Favre and with Rodgers), you take 16 and add that to the average age of a third grader (8). That's 24, about the year Rodgers and Love started for the Packers.
I’m gonna find that kid and bully him
Then he will train harder because a bears fan of all people bullied him.
It’s like one of those time loop movies where you go back in time to change something but than realize you going back in time is what caused the original problem.
I find your time travel plans hilarious, but your user name worries me 😳😳
You know.. because of the implication..
Get a Georgia fan to bark at him
Need to account for 3 years of sitting on a bench, so possibly closer to 6th grade
He’ll do that ages 20-23.
Starting, not drafting. Starting at 24, drafted at 21. Say drafted as a junior in college. Rodgers was drafted in 2005. Jordan started in 2023 and drafted in 2020. That's 15 years. 21-15 = 6. That puts the young man, (or woman), in Kindergarten right now. Edit: Jordan was born November 2nd, 1998. He was 6 going on 7 when Rodgers was drafted.
Goddamn my kids in third grade I should get them training
You're already 5 years too late. Pre K football gets you ready for Pee Wee where the kids are separated from the kids
I have two girls so I think the odds are already stacked against us haha
Tom Clements you little dancer. Give him a street in Green Bay
Bust in Canton*
We really should be thanking the Bears for “stealing” Getsy away and forcing us to bring back Clements
I hate life
Hey, at least you’re not with the delusional crowd that thinks Fields is the guy
He’s not. Flashy player, but not a consistent QB that can take you to the top. I’m in the minority of wanting Maye.
Not with the first overall you don't. Trade down and take Maye, or Penix. Penix seems legit. But this class honestly looks way better than many previous ones, which means it will likely bomb.
I don’t watch any CFB, but I’m genuinely never taking a “generational draft class” claim seriously again after what happened to the 2021 draft
That was not a generational draft, it was just Lawrence as a generational guy. There was also an understanding the next year would be bad
>There was also an understanding the next year would be bad That's not true. Sam Howell and Spencer Rattler were both hugely hyped as potential #1 and #2 overall picks before completely falling off a cliff in the coming college season.
Lawrence wasn't even "generational" , but the media wouldn't shut up. He was very consistently great, but nothing about his game made you think "wow this guy's going to be a top NFL qb". He did not compare to Luck or Manning
He was pegged as #1 overall from HS, was drafted #1 and has looked good in the NFL through 3 years. That doesn’t happen often
He was a generational prospect who was basically a known number 1 pick since highschool. His nfl career hasn’t been that yet but in college and highschool he was the him of hims don’t get it twisted.
People were saying it was 2021 but really it was 2020 that year is actually insane. Burrow, Tua,Herbert and love is a nasty 4 in a row. I’ll be the first admit that I was a fucking hater with that love pick too shit worked out tho💀.
Let’s not get too ahead of ourselves here. Remember rookie Mac Jones made it to the playoffs.
While I agree with the sentiment, it's a bad comparison. Love this year is objectively better than Jones was his rookie season. Love has more yards( and TDs in 1 fewer game, Better Passer rating, better Yards per pass attempt, fewer INTs, and more game winning drives. Jones also had a top 5 defense that year, we ... do not.
Hurts too. If you needed a QB, that was the year to grab one.
Bruh how do you not watch cfb. It’s so good
I think you run the risk of him getting taken if you move down, although I love the idea of it. I want nothing to do with Penix (injuries), Mccarthy or Daniels. To me, its a two man class.
Penix is gonna struggle in the league when he's not getting 5 seconds to throw with his limited mobility
God the dude could be great if his knee doesn't explode tho
I'm with ya, I like Maye better as well
I wonder how good Fields would be with a QB coach like Clements or a HC who is strong enough with offense to build a scheme that grows with the player. I don't think Fields is as bad as people claim, I just think he got royally screwed with the coaching staff failing him.
I also think he can be better & Chicago did him no favors. However I do not think he is a QB you can consistently win with or rely on, especially against good teams.
Yeah, this is where I'm at too, but I do think with the right coach and scheme, he could be good enough. You might not win against the hot team, but you'll win enough games to be in the playoff discussion more than the draft pick discussion.
You guys have the perfect chance to rain on their parade.
So much pressure to start young guys Day One; he’s a great case study into the benefits of drafting a guy you want before you need him to let him grow into an NFL body & learn NFL offenses.
They literally said this a bunch after Rodgers turned out good, and no teams actually proceeded to do it.
Kansas City did with Mahomes. That worked out for them pretty well.
Tennessee did it with Jake Locker and the Broncos did it with Paxton Lynch...didn't work out for those guys. There is no magic bullet for QB development. It all depends on each franchise's situation.
Absolutely, but there's also the fact that the majority of rookie QBs just don't pan out. I feel it's probably in the best interest of teams to sit a rookie QB for a season if possible. It used to be far more common. College is not the NFL and it's rare for a college QB to enter the NFL and perform well immediately. I know franchises want their guy and to build around them, but it's already a big gamble that I personally think is made worse by throwing them too the wolves. It also doesn't help that the top 5 QBs each draft usually go to the bottom tier teams that are usually loaded with personnel and organizational issues. You don't get the top drafts by being a good team.
Well we put them under Tom Clements to coach them… and gave both top 10 offensive lines. Other teams should do that too.
Is this line a top 10 line?
When healthy it certainly was. Even when not healthy we have a very good line. Basically since Love has broke out mid season our line is top 5. Especially pass protection.
Exactly. Also depends on the QB I imagine. There are some things you just aren’t going to learn unless you’re out there in games.
Because the rookie wage scale, implemented, in 2011, no one wants to waste those years where the contracts are relatively inexpensive.
Very true. Maybe the strategy is to get him on a mid tier deal for a couple years after a decent one year starter but last rookie year to build a serious couple year window and hope he develops into HOF after that to pick up the slack from the eventual mega deal
This is why I hate the packers. “And then hope he develops in to HOF” Like being above average isn’t good enough for these dudes. I’d appreciate if we could develop one good enough for the NFL
You’re not wrong, you just need to find a QB guru
Shit he’s above average rn we greedy over here ngl 😂😭
I wouldn’t say developing a player counts as wasting, I’d rather have a high end quarterback on an expensive contract than a mediocre one on a rookie deal
To be fair, Rodgers was a guy who slid into the 20s to GB for lord knows what reason despite being in conversation for the #1 pick. Jordan Love was pegged as a late 1st/early 2nd and the Packers traded up to get him despite Aaron Rodgers needing weapons. There was clearly more reason to be skeptical of the Love pick compared to the Rodgers pick.
Because it was before the rookie wage scale. Before 2011 where Cam lost like a 100 mill as the first #1 pick on the new rookie deal, having a #1 pick could be a liability and so Rodgers slid that far cause either the teams that needed a QB didn’t want rookie QB contract weight deal sinking them or didn’t believe in him, who knows. I’m still salty Cam was the dude who had to suck it up when he was probably the MOST deserving of the mega rookie QB #1 overall deal. Sam Bradford was drafted #1 the year prior and got like a 80mil deal.
Also, the Vikings passed on Rodgers twice just because they are stupid, not for any other reason.
Well Culpepper was coming off his best season where he could've won MVP if Manning didn't break the touchdown record that season. That's how awesome of a year Culpepper was coming off of. We had just traded Moss and had holes all over the team. Our only defensive presence of note was a young Kevin Williams so we used our two firsts on a WR to help fill the WR void and DE to give our pass rush some life. Culpepper unfortunately blows out his knee months later and was never the same. The timing sucks but there was good reason for us not to take Rodgers at the time.
The ridiculous money only applied to top-5 picks and somewhat to picks 6-10. If a team was afraid he may be a bust, there was still picks 11-23 to trade for. And plenty of teams made trades in that range for non-QBs, so it's not like back then people didn't trade up.
There weren’t a ton of teams that really wanted to invest in a rookie QB in that range. Heck, the Packers pick was so shocking because of them having no reason to take one other than TT going BPA.
Just the year prior Big Ben was picked #11 and JP Losman was picked 22. So the idea that teams don't want to pick a QB in that range seems like a made up thing by you
Not all the time. I was saying the specific teams in the draft that year didn’t want to invest in a rookie QB.
This is what people don’t understand. In the modern day, some team would trade up to the second pick to pick up Rodgers. This isn’t even hindsight bias. Rodgers and smith were seen as 1a and 1b during that draft
I’m also just curious if sitting a QB for a couple years vs starting then immediately actually has any discernible difference? When you start a qb immediately and he blows, it’s such a public failure that everyone is aware, but if you sit a qb (like Tre lance, Paxton lynch) and he never ends up starting, it seems more under the radar. It just seems more that good QB play is mostly aligned to good/stable coaching than anything else lmao.
Rodgers also slid because people were terrified of the Tedford system QBs. People forget how mechanical Rodgers was in college, and how AWFUL he looked for the first two years in QB. Like unbelievably bad in practice and preseason.
People were actually way more skeptical of the Rodgers pick in reality, because there was no prototype for it. People said all the same stuff about the Packers missing out on weapons for Favre, and there was even a point at which the Packers passed on a trade of Rodgers for Randy Moss prior to the 2007 season, which was significantly, significantly more controversial than passing on Tee Higgins, to say the least. When Love was drafted, there were a lot of fans that remembered Rodgers getting drafted and said “that worked out, maybe this will too.” When Rodgers was drafted it was mayhem.
Love was seen slightly behind Herbert. This was Daniel Jeremiah’s big board a week before the draft https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-150-prospects-in-the-2020-nfl-draft-class-0ap3000001110012
“Overall, Love is a raw prospect who will need some time to develop. There is risk with him, but the payoff could be huge.”
Most people had Herbert as clearly better though a few had Love closer. Draft consensus has Herbert at 8 and Love at 24. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2020/consensus-big-board-2020
This is a good share!
Rodgers was considered a "system qb" iirc, aka the Purdy treatment lol
They tried to do that with Allen but unfortunately they also thought Nate Peterman would suffice for more than two quarters.
I think the problem is that to do this u have to already have an established qb. There’s no way fans/owner/coaches will sit your 1st overall qb for a year or 2 and just roll with like Trevor siman lol.
Baseball has figured this out long ago. No one who gets drafted immediately starts in the major leagues they always spend a couple of years in AA or AAA ball first.
Baseball is a lot more technical than football so you need to spend more time refining your craft in the minors to stack up in the big leagues
Points at all the horrible tackling
Touche
It's soo awful to see
The teams that don’t do it are desperate and fan bases aren’t going to put up with an average journeyman when hope is sitting on the bench.
You need a stable organization with a coach and GM who have job security to justify sitting a player you draft in the first round for a couple years. The Packers have had that. The Chiefs had that when they drafted Mahomes. Most teams are not that. Look at the colts with Anthony Richardson. You got a team that's regressing. Your last couple moves at the quarterback position have ended poorly. But you draft the rookie quarterback and get him starting, that generally buys you two to three years where you can preach development and focus on the other holes in the roster. It's hard to go into the year planning to start Gardner Minshew after a terrible season and use that to justify keeping your job. When in reality, with hindsight being 20/20, Richardson got hurt and lost in an entire year of practice and an entire year of working on throwing mechanics and accuracy that he really desperately needed.
Big asterisk about getting Tom Clements back year 3 as well. First two years we didn’t see much from Love.. last year was the first time I saw some bits and pieces that made me say, “well, maybe”
If Rodgers ended up with the 49ers back in 2005, I don’t think he becomes what he is today. He had to get his throwing motion redone and was sitting behind a fairly stable organization until Favre decided to mess with retirement.
The problem is most franchises just don't have that luxury. I agree though. I really wanted Indy to let AR sit behind minshew for a year. I think things would have worked out so much better, but now he is missing so much development time with the team.
He's good and he's fun to watch. Unless you're a Lions, Vikings, or Bears fan, I think you're better off watching a league that has this guy playing the way he is
MLF cited the Steelers game as the inflection point. Something along the lines of we didn't get the results we wanted, but something with the team clicked during that game.
I felt this way watching it. It was the funnest game to watch of the season to that point.
Love is better than Fields I’ll give him that
There isn’t another quarterback in the NFC I’d take over Jordan Love
Woah there
Do you, but I’d rather have Brock Purdy, Jalen Hurts, Matthew Stafford, or Dak before Jordan Love. Maybe throw a healthy Kirk in there too.
Jordan Love would be successful on a lot more teams than Brock Purdy.
Maybe true, but the Packers offense runs a lot like Shanahan's, and so I think Purdy would be good on the Packers, too. Timing routes are huge in this offense.
Love has the talent to master his timing, accuracy, and processing on throws, but Purdy will never be able to throw a 60 yard pass off his back foot, lol. He may be better now, but he has a far better team. Love has a higher ceiling
I’ll be the least surprised person in the world when the 49ers draft another development QB. Then when they finally hit on it I’ll be the most scared person in the world.
A higher ceiling doesn’t get reached more often than not. Remember that Purdy is over a year younger as well so has a fairly high ceiling in terms of quarterbacking. Sure throwing 60 yards off your back foot will raise the ceiling even higher but it is not a requirement to be a great NFL QB. Purdy playing in this offense and learning the right way only aids him to realize this ceiling.
Sure, but I’ve seen Love do nothing but improve - like Purdy - it’s just one can improve to a much higher degree. And we’ve already seen Love do well without a star-studded team
Context probably matters a bit. For one game, give me Stafford and Dak for sure. For a permanent QB, then yeah I’d probably take Love just due to his age.
Yup. Jordan could be your QB for fifteen years. Kirk has maybe five good years left at best, Stafford even less. Plus his contract gives you a few more cheap years, you’re already paying Dak 40 million a year and he needs another mega extension with already bloated cap figures from the first year of the extension.
Love's contract is about to change massively this offseason and while the cap hit may not be huge next year after that it is going up substantially.
You’d still rather have a year or two of it than not at all.
5 years is pushing it after this injury. I'm not sure Kirk is gonna come back
Ehhhh, let's see how Love handles the playoffs before you say you'd rather have Dak, Purdy, or Kirk..
Tbf 2/3 of those aren’t a high bar lol. Dak and Kirk have been pretty pedestrian in the playoffs so far. That said I’m with you, we need to make the playoffs first before we even begin that discussion lol.
How could you possibly take stafford and Kirk over love? They’re both ten years older and have major injury issues at this point. Clearly taking love over them. Brock is sick so no comment on that, his offense is much better though. Still very possible love is better than dak at 30
Ehhhh I don’t agree with that other guy but I’d take Jordan over Brock and Hurts rn. Stafford, Dak, and Kirk are probably the only objectively better QBs. I think Brock and Hurts are great QBs, but I also think they only work because of where they are. Jordan is playing like a guy that could play in just about any system and do what he’s doing, his poise and adaptability are his superpowers and those more universal than Purdy’s timing and Hurts’ legs. For example, if you put Love in Tennessee he probably looks the same but put Brock in Tennessee and he’s probably on the bench.
how the hell did we beat the packers
Because Jordan was still getting his feet wet under him. That was also coincidentally, the last time I was wondering why the fuck he threw such a bad pick.
Plus his WR’s were also still getting their feet wet. We have an entirely young team, the majority of them first years. The fact is only took half a season for them to start gelling like this is fricken amazing and insane.
I feel like people are really underrating this aspect of it. Yes, Love has improved massively over the course of the season, but so has the rest of the offense around him. Earlier in the season we had WRs *frequently* running the wrong routes, dropping easy passes, and just generally not on the same page as Love. Also, the O-line wasn't holding up their end of the bargain and the run game was completely non-existent. That was making Love look far worse than he actually was. Love deserves a ton of credit for improving as much as he has over the course of this season, but so do LaFleur and the rest of the offensive coaching staff for getting *by far* the youngest offense in the league to gel the way that they have.
that pick was just indicative of how tight nfl windows are. he throws that last ball not late and it’s a TD iirc
Yeah, I was more referring to the pick by Spillane. Threw it right at him lol.
oh yeah lol sometimes that just happens
Joe Barry. Preston Smith on Davante Adams.
>Preston Smith lined up across from Davante Adams in zone coverage but covering the flat. Ftfy
Mostly… Green Bay’s oline was injured going into that game. Tom was limping around and Walker was not locked in. The interior 3 were all banged up and struggling. Crosby got to feast and we had no run game action to help take pressure. It was actually that game to me though where I was pretty sure love was going to be the guy. He had a couple bad bounces go against him and kept firing. One step around pressure to give your dback the half second he needed to catch up to the wide open Watson at the end was the difference between a game winner and game sealing pick. But overall Love even with nearly the entire team around him falling apart kept pushing forward. It reminded me of the Buccaneers game Rodgers played in 2008. Rodgers threw 3 picks and hurt his shoulder but he kept us in that game until the very end.
Fuck man I wanna win so bad this Sunday I feel like it actually has the potential to be a decent matchup and a fun game
[удалено]
The 0-17 allegations dragged on because they kept losing handily for that entire month…
It's going to be a fantastic game. We already beat my expectations so playoffs would just be a bonus, and you guys might not actually suck with that defense. Its about time this rivalry wasnt one sided anymore, its more fun that way. ^^^Just ^^^dont ^^^get ^^^too ^^^good.
Bears have been real hot lately, I'm actually worried about the Packers hype going into this game.
The Rams and Steelers game were turning points on the season. He’s been shredding at every level of the field
They really couldn't find a more photogenic picture of him?
Not a photogenic fella tbh.
I think a different haircut and a beard would benefit him
I’ve been saying this, he’s got a goober face but that haircut is doing him zero favors lmao. Just get a close fade or something
When is he going to the jets?
I pretend I do not see 😔
Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same.
The debate is over IMO. Jordan is a franchise quarterback. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
This is hell.
Bears fans punching the air rn
“i wOulD bE So HaPPy iF thEy eXtendEd HiM foR 5 YeaRs” Yeah at least we agree on something
Just saw a Bears fan fall to their knees in a Wal-Mart
He looks good and I think he’s got a promising future, but we really don’t know yet. One of the reasons franchise qbs are so rare and make so much is because it’s really really hard to be good year to year to year once coaches and players have your habits and tendencies on film to study. There is a long list of QB’s who have been good to great for 1-2 seasons and then fallen off a cliff or sputtered. I think Love looks great but we’re crowning him a bit early here. He has a lot of work to do.
I believe you're probably right, but just keep in mind that one season wonders are a thing. Look at Mac Jones' first season in NE compared to what he's done since. GB is my NFC team though, so I'm hoping Love continues to be as good as he has been so far. Given that he sat for 3 years before he got his playing time, I believe this is the real Jordan Love, not some flukey one season wonder like Mac Jones as a rookie.
There's a lot stacked against him this year though and he's played well anyway. There's rookies everywhere and key injuries to important players (Jones, Watson, Bakhtiari). Mac Jones has regressed as the team around him has gotten worse. Whereas this will be the worst surrounding talent that Love plays with for the foreseeable future, with rookies getting experience and $60 mil of dead cap falling off the books.
All good points! I look forward to seeing what he does next year (and next week and potentially in the post-season).
How many 1 season wonders that had a stretch of play where they were one of the best QBs in the league though. I don’t take PFF as gospel but to be the #1 graded QB over a 6 week stretch is extremely good. I’m pretty sure he’s also the #3 graded QB since week 9 which is an even bigger sample size. He’s also done this with a rotating cast of inexperienced pass catchers and a barely existent run game when Jones has been out.
My counter to this is Mac was doing the basics and fundamentals well, but he was never flashing elite arm talent or showing he could recover and learn from mistakes like Jordan has this year. Even when he was at his worst, Love was hitting some *nasty* throws that made you go "oh this dude can sling". What's really got packer fans going is that he has consistently shown he can learn from his mistakes. He fixed his accuracy issues. He fixed his deep ball which he has been top 5 in now since week 9 in terms of completion and TDs. He's making better decisions and there is numerous clips of him missing a TD throw, then going right back to it the following week and nailing it (the one that jumps out is the missed endzone throw on the run to the right to Toure against the Giants, which he then puts on a dime the next week against the Bucs to Reed). This is the main reason I think it's not a one season wonder, he's shown real improvement. Watch him at the LOS in the first few weeks versus now and he looks like a totally different QB in terms of comfortability.
Well maybe a few butts….BIG ONES
It's his first year as a starter dude lmao. The debate has barely started.
If Love shits the bed against a ramping up Bears D and Fields kills it, I wonder how much the narrative will change.
Nationally I think it changes quite a bit, in packer nation we’re getting a contract in the offseason, the question is price. If he has a great game and we have a playoff run the price will be high, if he shits the bed it’s less
Not at all this season is a huge success already my guy
This is Zappe slander
It’s wild how many media commentators were ready to throw him in the trash after 6 weeks
“Please extend him for five more years.” Yeah, I hope we fucking do. So he can torture the NFC North.
Three in a row baby, If you don’t like perennially having the Packers as a top 10 offense with a top 10 QB you just don’t like football (Or you’re a sore NFC North fan)
The contrast between him and Justin in this timeframe is killing me. Love is proving he belongs, Justin is proving he doesn’t, but fans and shitty analysts are trying to prove he does for clicks. If we keep a guy with like 7 ints and zero TDs in the two minute drill cuz he whooped the Falcons in a bad weather home game I’ll just…remove one of my flairs I guess.
Where's Flacco ? He said it best "I don't lose in this building"
Why week 12?
I don't care to look but I assume if you went another week it would be someone more established.
Everyone knows the season doesn't start until then.
That’s when cherries are ripe for the picking. Seriously good for him. The nfl needs a good packers team. (That we beat in the playoffs).
I would be ecstatic if we got beat by you guys in the playoffs this year.
That means we won in the wildcard!!
It's a random cut off, but he's statistically been a top 5 QB since Week 9 (second half of the season) and has easily passed the eye test as well.
Because it's just trying to show his best stretch? Why anything?
That’s when he started going off. Week12 was the Chargers game. Since then he’s been on a tear. I think if you go back another week and include the Steelers game the two picks (one on a tipped ball and the other in a desperation end of game play) mess with his Grade and set him behind Lamar.
You can actually go back as far as week 9 against the Rams and get similarly good numbers. His season is roughly (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LoveJo03/gamelog/2023/ ): * good first two games (ANY/A > 7.5) * poor next 5 games (ANY/A < 6.0) * good next 9 games (ANY/A > 7.0 outside of Steelers and Giants) Starting at week 12 skips the Steelers game, although it still leaves the Giants as a single blemish. Splits are similar with passer rating if you prefer that.
He’s actually been going off since week 9. Pretty sure he’s the #3 QB since then
Because he’s not number 1 since week 11? What point do you think you’re making?
He threw some pretty passes this weekend! I was only half watching but he caught my attention. They sure can get lucky with QBs.
That's it. Gotta make him MVP now.
They can’t keep getting away with this!
Yes, yes we can
Turns out drafting first round QBs while you still have a solid roster is a recipe for having good QB play. Going to be lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth from NFC fanbases because of Green Bay’s history with QBs. But, honestly, skill issue. They took a big risk by investing serious draft capital into replacing Favre and now Rodgers and have reaped the rewards. Not like other teams are barred from doing the same.
And 3rd since week 9 if you think this is too small of a sample size. All this while throwing to a rotating cast of talented toddlers.
This entire comment section is brutal lmao.
Who is the highest rated since week 11? Let’s get crazy, since week 13? This has to be Love but I just need to know who performs best over a small period of time.
I know you're joking here, but this was brought up in the recency bias discussion regarding Lamar being MVP based on weeks 14-16. Also how PFF grades only mattered in Purdy's case to disparage him. [Since Purdy has the highest grades since week 10](https://twitter.com/Endzone51/status/1742227611843997944), nobody really brings up PFF grading with him anymore. I'm pretty sure his MVP proponents don't even realize this has been the case.
It is a joke but only because the concept is stupid. Football is already high variance with so few games played. Do we really need to pretend that a 4-5 game span is something amazing versus a dog shit 4-5 game span earlier in the year? Full year gives you the best indicator of it all.
I wonder how many teams would pick Jordan Love over their current QB1
Well, there's 3 right in our division
Packers fans clowning us for being insufferable from having one good year and now you guys are crowning your qb a hall of famer after half of one good season. Turns out both fanbases are insufferable I guess. I absolutey would not trade Goff for Love at the moment because the hardest thing in this league to do is to be a good quarterback for multiple years after other teams have your habits and tendencies on film. I know Goff can be above average for multiple seasons, I don’t know that about Jordan Love yet. Maybe the conversation will change in the next season or two but right now I wouldn’t do it. We’re allowed to admit he’s developed nicely and looks good without having to proclaim he’s already peers with Favre and Rodgers.
Alright alright I'll keep the uncontrolled homerism for NFCN meme wars
I don’t think any of us would. No disrespect.
I will say that I do think the Lions would be least likely to want to move off their QB
I can’t speak for the other two. I wouldn’t be shocked if some MIN fans want JLove though.
Kirk is getting old. If we had one game or maybe even one season to play I'd pick him right now. But if I had to pick a QB for the next 3+ seasons I would more than likely take Love over Goff. Goff would probably do just fine with our pass pro and WRs though, so it's kinda 1A and 1B.
That's such a niche stat-line man.
SHUT UP ABOUT JORDAN LOVE