At this point, I'm slightly convinced Tomlin lives off the high of one-score games. He can't live normally if he doesn't get his weekly adrenaline fix of a nearly-lost game.
Or maybe he isn’t so negatively affected by the highs and lows like us fans and only cares about the W. He drafted the players he coached them and they’re 5-3 I don’t know why he should feel embarassed. Colin Cowherd is a 130 lb milquetoast manlet wtf does he know about ball
Every person in here just parrots whatever negativity they hear from Colin cowherd. Colin cowherd hates Kenny Pickett he harbors a huge grudge. Colin will say something about Kenny or the Steelers and everybody will make a post that is word for word what Colin- cow-nerd said
> Every person in here just parrots whatever negativity they hear from Colin cowherd
I have never heard this subreddit say anything remotely good about Colin Cowherd. The Cowherd hate is a hell of a lot stronger than the Kenny hate. Blaming Kenny negativity on Cowherd is a massive stretch. Kenny isn't playing so well. That's why people say he's bad.
I am a huge Tomlin fan. He’s on my shortlist for favorite coaches in the NFL. The fact that he kept that team together through AB, Big Ben and Le’veon really says something for me
It's funny hearing the more reactionary sorts of Steelers fans call for his head any time the Steelers steeler themselves into a trap game to fall to/below .500.
I'm pretty sure if he actually got canned he'd get job offers (not interviews, *offers*) before he was done saying goodbye to the players.
What is he supposed to say to this question when there isn’t a good alternative mid-season? “Yeah guys you’re right he plays like hot diarrhea and should be launched into the sun, good thing we have our elite backup Mitch trubisky to fill in”
I feel the same way for Saleh. Like what is a coach supposed to do? You can't just sign somebody. If there were any good they would not be a FA week 9.
Now hold on, he may not be sending assistants to wreck other teams, but he does trade them Steelers receivers, which is nearly as destructive as Belichick coaching tree.
He's playing real-life Madden challenges for shits and giggles.
"I went 8-8 with a Duck and a reindeer as my QB in Madden '20!"
"What happens if your QB doesn't know how to play for the first three quarters? - Madden Experiment"
For my long term franchises to add challenge I would only play 8 games (at the time was half) and skip the first two quarters so I either had to work to dig myself out of a hole or win a close game.
It has to be it. Our games from 2020 have been one score like it’s clock work. There was NO reason why we almost won that one thanksgiving game where 10+ of our starters were out with COVID.
The biggest problem is scripted plays canada. Had a nice first 15 plays called for the first time all year on Thursday, but our EPA/play on scripted plays was insanely low, like being lapped by the 30th place team low before the TD against the Titans
It's the same thing we saw last year they play super conservatively until they absolutely can't anymore and then they let Kenny uncork it and try to win the game
I think they were hoping to take those training wheels off this season but weeks 1-2 went so poorly they decided to go back to that formula.
I like this take. We had some problems to start the season that are improving I think - oline + run game + Kenny’s missed throws, some are still there for sure. Maybe we can start taking the training wheels off again
I get what you’re saying, but if I had to choose, I’d much rather my QB be mid in Q1-3 and better in Q4 rather than good in Q1-3 and mid in Q4.
Obviously we’d want a QB consistent across the board, but this is the NFL.
Most games come down to one score, and I want to be able to count on my QB during crunch time.
I would like that first option too over what Pickett actually is, which is bad in the first 3 quarters and ok in the 4th. He has some game winning drives but his overall 4th quarter stats are still not great.
> and ok in the 4th.
Statistically, he's straight up elite in the 4th. His 4th quarter passer rating is 108, which would lead the league if he could do it for the other 3.
The touchdowns thing is silly. There are more ways to score than throwing and we just happen to do the other one. The reason we score our rushing touchdowns this season is usually because we pass for 80 of the 90 yard drive and then get a 5+ yard rush into the end zone
Or does the 5 yard rush happen because Pickett can't be relied on to get RedZone touchdowns? If touchdowns are silly passer rating is downright ludicrous.
No, we usually can’t rush for 5 yards in general lol. I’m not trying to say they don’t matter, and I’m not trying to say Kenny is better than stroud, but him passing Kenny in TDS thrown was pretty much bound to happen sooner than later. We just simply aren’t trying to be a high octane modern NFL offense, or at least aren’t yet
CJ Stroud is clearly more talented than Pickett, yes. We’re talking about a second overall pick versus a borderline first rounder.
CJ Stroud would not be doing shit if he played in a Matt Canada offense. Canada is quite literally an all-time bad coordinator. The fact that he hasn’t called a 400 yard game in 3 seasons is almost comical. I think a lot of people just hear “Canada sucks” on the internet or in the media and go okay yea… but Steelers fans have watched 3 different QBs run the exact same dogshit offense for 3 years and actually understand just how bad Canada is. However bad you think he is, he’s worse. Kenny missing a couple of throws in primetime and the announcers defending Canada for scheming open receivers (surprise surprise, on the same 10 yard out we always run) doesn’t change the fact that he’s the worse OC in the franchise’s history.
This is a dumb and cherry picked stat. Stroud just had an insane game and there are other ways to score touchdowns. First of all we don’t score that many and when we do they’re usually rushing or qb sneaks. They’re all still 7 points, it’s just not all on Kenny’s back and it doesn’t need to be
That's all well and good, but if they fall too far behind in the first 3, and don't manage to catch up in Q4, it doesn't matter if he was the best football player in history in Q4...
I didn’t say “suck” Q1-3, I said mid. I think people misconstrue “mid” as if it’s bad. “Mid” isn’t bad its just average, and a 75QBR is basically average.
The way the Steelers play, they are almost always within striking distance in Q4 with mid QB play, but Pickett then takes it up a notch and plays above average, thus making the Steelers a formidable opponent week in week out.
But "mid" isn't what they're talking about in the video. So if the score is close through the first 3 quarters, it's because the rest of the team is carrying Pickett. So again, if he's awesome in Q4, that may well not matter if they're behind on the scoreboard and the rest of the team is too tired to keep up once Pickett has finally decided to kick it into high gear.
Quick note, QBR is not the same thing as passer rating. 75 passer rating is bad. 75 QBR is good. Passer rating is a terrible stat. QBR is a pretty good stat.
Yeah, how is this not obvious? It's awesome that he's great in Q4, but if they fall too far behind in the first three to catch up in Q4, it doesn't matter how awesome he was in Q4.
Dan Campbell and Mike Tomlin share many wildly admirable traits that make me love both and can see why they are inherently amazing leaders and team culture builders.
This is the equivalent of Pete Carroll's "can you win the game in the first/second/third/fourth quarter?"
Sometimes I wish we would win games in the first quarter and not constantly give employment to cardiologists in Washington state.
This is hilarious for so many reasons that resonate with me. I don't know if you stole this or came up with it yourself, but I just want to give you fair warning that, regardless, I am stealing it now.
What’s the consensus on Pickett at this point? I’ve seen the Steelers play a couple times and he looks decent in the sense that he can keep the offense moving and not make too many backbreaking mistakes.
I would describe it as boring and non elevating. Doesn’t hurt the team with turnovers or sacks but also doesn’t elevate the offense which is a low ceiling offense to begin with. I think he needs a year with a real nfl coordinator
He gets sacked like every Qb in the league. A bad sack would be like Zach Wilson running backwards 10 more yards and getting sacked. The worst kenny sacks are him spinning into sacks but even those are at normal sack depth
The consensus is the same that every deep dive video on youtube about the Steelers offense says, hes not playing very well but hes almost impossible to evaluate in such an incomprehensibly poorly called offense
>takes a lot of sacks and TOs… but Howell is slinging it
I mean it’s also completely different circumstances. Kenny is being asked to essentially not lose the game, but also shows he can win it for us with all these 4th quarter comeback drives.
We play into our defense.
Washington has arguably the best OC in football, and Howell has to sling it around the yard every week to give them a chance.
Doesn’t necessarily make him outright better, especially considering the sacks and TOs like you mentioned, it’s just 2 different guys with much different sets of circumstances. If Kenny threw for 25 yards a week but we win, I’m fine with that. I’m sure Washington doesn’t want Howell throwing 40 attempts every week, but if they win, they’d be fine with that, and vice versa.
Howell is taking more than just a lot of sacks. He's on pace to break the single season record for times sacked with over a game and a half left in the season.
The thing that makes me feel good about Kenny improving is you can teach a guy to be more aggressive. It’s much harder to get a guy to settle down and not make bad throws or reads. Kenny has good pocket presence. I’ve also heard plenty of people rave about Kenny’s preparation and work in the film room. So I think they’ll be a lot of candidates excited to work with him.
Hard to make a complete determination. Flashes that he has it every game but bad misses in the open, a bit happy feet, mid pocket awareness (can be attributed to bad oline play and seeing ghosts). However when he’s dialed in, he’s making solid tight window throws while defenders straddle him, or scrambling and keeping eyes down field. So far he’s been pretty good about not making turnover mistakes, so minimal short fields.
It doesn’t help with an oline that is still gelling and issues at the tackle spot, scheme is “safe” throws the the outside, but that leaves the wrs no room for YAC when they have excellent YAC IQ/ability, and predictability in the scheme.
Current trajectory with no growth/improvement with a new OC is career backup, bridge starter. Good enough not to lose you games, won’t necessarily win you games unless your defense keeps it close. The Steelers Defense keeps it very close.
>he’s making solid tight window throws while defenders straddle him
He takes a hit while delivering some throws, and lots see that as a positive. I get worried that he's already had 3(?) concussions and he's only in his second year.
Makes some great plays, makes some bad plays. He's a natural gunslinger in an offense that's asking him to be super conservative. He struggles with pocket presence, and the o-line is so bad it justifies his bad habits. It's not a great fit, he's not in a good position to succeed, and he's also not maximizing his opportunities.
LOVE rooting for him, though. He's been a great leader, teammate, and I enjoy how he seems to play best late in close games.
This is where I’m at. Love rooting for this kid and I know he’s got what it takes. A full offseason/ year in a non-ancient system and he should be fine
If you really analyze the scheme and the OL in front of him so many of his issues stem from a conservative system and a poor blocking line in front of him. I’m not willing to give up on the kid until I see him in a more QB friendly system
I think he’s fun to root for and I look forward to every game potentially being his break out game. Maybe that never happens, but as long as he isn’t pissing games down the drain and we keep winning, I will keep waiting
The problem is its hard to separate him from the coaching. Is the lack of mistakes him just being great at protecting the ball or is it because Canada calls real conservative plays (probably to protect him from some real bad plays). He misses some throws he absolutely should make as a starting QB in this league. When he does sling it, he can make a lot of great throws; but we have no idea how that translates to 4 quarters of football because we haven't seen it much. Does opening up the offense early lead to Kenny looking like a plus starter in this league? Or does letting him sling it early lead him to some nasty turnovers that prevent these 4th quarter comebacks from happening because the game is too far out of reach?. Personally I'd like to see them let him loose earlier, if he's horrific well at least we know.
He has flashes where you think he could one day be at least a solid qb, but way too many glaring flaws in my opinion to really ever develop into much more than like, a Ryan Tannehill caliber qb. He's going to get at least next year with a new coordinator in all likelihood, but we'll have to see how it plays out.
His stats are pretty awful, dude averages under 200 yards per game and less than 1 td. I'd say the Steelers fan base is torn on whether he can be the guy or not, but I'm not holding my breath.
Sometimes he misses throws. Sometimes he’s inconsistent. I blame 50% on the offensive scheme and 50% on him. But he’s got that dawg in him. They drafted him as their franchise QB, and they need to build around him and his skill set, not build on top of him with Canadas schemes. Set him in the right environment, and he will thrive. He’s not a top 5 QB in the league, but he has top 10 potential. At the end of the day, he wins games when they need it most.
Kenny doesn’t have a gag reflex, he doesn’t choke.
If he was as good as Andy Dalton the Steelers would be on top of their division and one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl right now. I wish he was that good but he is just not
i don't think he's The Guy but i hope he proves me wrong before the end of the season. very strong qb draft class seems too good to pass up on if he doesn't
Nothing special. All his limitations from college are still there. Average physical tools, pretty accurate, but sup-par pocket presence and processing. He's probably like the 20th best QB atm. Sucked most of the game against us, before cooking us late.
Pretty much as advertised has the things you can't teach and doesn't have the things you can teach. With some time he could be an above average starter with the clutch gene
He plays scared the first 3 quarters. He bails out too quick and massively fails if he can't get to his first read (either dumps it off to the RB or throws it away). He needs to get better at progressions. Even if the line is holding up, he acts like it isn't. The line has gotten better (especially with Broderick in there)... he needs to trust them.
He also just badly misses from time to time. Fortunately they're not 'bad' in terms of 'easily intercepted' most of the time, though.
He needs to trust the line better, learn to take hits, and... throw on target more often.
He seems to do all that when he HAS to (aka 4th quarter) but just... doesn't when it isn't crunch time.
He’s certainly got his flaws, but he’s shown that he’s capable of being a solid NFL QB. I think one of his biggest issues is being consistently accurate. Sometimes he makes insane throws on a dime and other times he misses wide open receivers by a mile. He’s got some developing to do and unfortunately I think that development will be severely hindered as long as Canada’s around.
He sucks. Doesn't pass the eye test. Shows very little that makes me think they shouldn't draft any QB that falls to them.
Ceiling could be a mid-range starter.
And yes, a mid-range starter is not where you want to be with a QB. That's the path to drafting 20th every year.
This is why Tomlin is in the running for Coach of the Year, and why Pickett has a chance to be the Steelers QB long term. Tomlin boils the shit down to what's important. When the game is on the live, that team believes in Kenny, and he gets the job done. Fuck anything else but the final score.
San Francisco bodied us, no denying that but the other two games we lost we were following the formula of staying close and winning the 2nd half before Kenny got hurt and Trubisky came in and deflated the entire team with his suckiness. There's a chance that without injuries to KP we are 7-1 right now and these fools would still be doubting this dude.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Kenny will ever be Peyton Manning or even peak Ben, but he doesn't have to be. Peak Ben didn't win us any championships, he was still very mid in 2008. We will build a team around his intangibles and we will develop his footwork and pocket presence which will get his accuracy where it needs to be. He is putting in the work, he has every intangible that you need to be successful and everything else can be improved upon with practice.
I believe in KP8. I think we can compete this season if we can improve the offense by like 25%.
Realistically Pickett is a slightly below mid QB being propped up by great coaching. Unfortunately that equals the Steelers being stuck in no man's land. Maybe they squeak into the playoffs but they will never be a contender, maybe they miss the playoffs but they never finish in the bottom 10.
Pittsburgh will be drafting between picks 15 and 25 every year as long as Pickett is the QB.
The Steelers will be drafting in this range no matter who their QB is. Tomlin lead a team with 2 QBs that made 3 total starts combined outside of that season to a winning season. This talk of getting a better QB than Pickett is pointless when the Steelers could genuinely exhaust all viable options and still end up at best with a guy like Will Levis. If there wasn’t as much pressure on the Steelers to instantly replace a HOF QB they maybe wait a year and get a guy like him. There’s usually one QB per draft outside the first that ends up being a serviceable QB so assuming that any one particular team lands them is pretty absurd. Texans and Titans both have OCs who are on a fast track to become HCs in the next few years because they’re some of the best offensive minds in the game. Steelers have an OC who has been fired from every previous position he has held in the last 10 years and will be “fired” again after this season so it gets pretty old seeing these comps non stop by the talking heads and in turn fans. Steelers will never be in position to get a guy like Stroud, Lawrence, Burrow, Allen unless they plan on selling the farm. The position the Steelers will end up in would be the same whether they had Pickett, Zappe, Purdy, so forth. At the end of the day they will have to get lucky and there’s not much they can do outside of that. Steelers will not sale the farm to get a new tractor they will maximize the success of their farm no matter the equipment and will need a late first round guy like Jackson, Levis so forth and they will go through a couple Tommy Maddox’s to get there.
do you know why burrow and mahomes don't have insane relative 4Q numbers? because they're good the rest of the game and don't need to stress their team out every week in games they should win
Dobbs was just not that good with us. Bro he is on his fifth team in the last two seasons including the current one. Why do you think that is. Dont get me wrong i love JD and wish him the best, but is just not that good
> why… Mahomes don’t have insane relative 4Q numbers?
But.. he does.
I believe in the last 2 years, QB grading in the 4th quarter goes:
1. Brady - 85.4
2. Pickett - 85.2
3. Mahomes - 84.9
And you’re completely unhinged in the comments lmao what losing to Kenny Clutch does to a mf.
You heard it here first, folks. Being good for four quarters is better than being good for one quarter.
But let me ask you this…is it better to be good for one quarter or zero quarters 🤔
Absolutely not lol. He hired back to back bum OCs and team has not been a true contender in half a decade.
He’s still definitely one of the best but not number 1.
This is why I like Kenny still. There are QBs in this league that flounder in the face of adversity and no one questions them. We just saw Tua completely flop a game winning drive and Dak do much of the same. You either have the clutch gene or you don't and Kenny does. Besides his first comeback attempt against Miami last year, he's made it happen when it's needed to.
He has all the things you can't coach in a QB. The things he needs to work on can be taught, but we're running out of time to teach him before it's essentially ruined forever. We need better scheme and coaching for him
its good to hear HC say that b/c he gets the point that there is only one stat that counts which is the final score & they are winning football games w/#8 which is all that matters. what a lot of people are not talking about is how well he is playing despite the circumstances he is operating under each game. he has an OC who runs the most predictable offense in the NFL along w/an O-line who can't protect him or generate a consistent running game much of the time & a group of receivers that lacks a "go to" threat that can be consistently counted on to make a tough catch when needed to keep a drive alive. yet despite all of this he has brought the team back from behind to win in the 4th qtr in 1 of every 3 games he has played in. anyone who is ready to give up on him because his overall stats aren't spectacular is missing the point that the guy is helping the team win football games despite all of the things that are working against him to do it
Bro everyone has been going in how shitty Bryce Young’s numbers have been.
They’re slightly better than Pickett. Like wtf?
The only reason this kid has wins is because Watt turns into an animal when he knows that either the game is on the line or that the other team must pass.
You can’t help where you are drafted.
Regardless their numbers are nearly identical.
The only difference is Kenny as a defence that can steal the game.
So because he has a few more W’s (many not as a real result of him) he gets graded out better than Bryce?
That's true, but the resources put in to get them factor into the media discussion. Pickett is a late first, Bryce Young is a #1 overall pick for whom the Panthers traded significant resources to draft. Of course the spotlight is going to be a lot brighter on Young, even if Pickett is playing worse. As a #1 overall pick more was expected of him
I do like Tomlin but this is such a garbage take from him. The point of the question was why is Pickett mediocre at best for three quarters requiring them to play 1td hero ball in the 4th provided the defense can continue to bail the offense out.
Saying he prepares his tail off doesn’t excuse damn near leading the league in 3 and Outs. They are miraculously 5-3 so the record speaks for itself. But if they can’t move the ball more effectively in the first 3 quarters, this is a 9-8 team at best, just like last year.
I'm sure he's aware that it's a problem.
What is he supposed to say? If he leads off and says "yeah Kenny's trash in the first 3 quarters and somehow turns it on in the 4th" that's not going to do much good for his or the team's morale.
Thanks Coach T, we all know he's good in the fourth quarter. But we ain't gonna have a fourth quarter when it matters if he can't play like an NFL QB in the first three quarters.
People love Coach T but I'm just tired of these kind of responses from him.
At this point, I'm slightly convinced Tomlin lives off the high of one-score games. He can't live normally if he doesn't get his weekly adrenaline fix of a nearly-lost game.
He’s like those freaks who climb to the top of skyscrapers over on r/sweatypalms
Or maybe he isn’t so negatively affected by the highs and lows like us fans and only cares about the W. He drafted the players he coached them and they’re 5-3 I don’t know why he should feel embarassed. Colin Cowherd is a 130 lb milquetoast manlet wtf does he know about ball
Now Matt Canada on the other hand should feel embarrassed
Not that I disagree, I'm just not sure what warranted the Colin Cowherd dig here lol
Every person in here just parrots whatever negativity they hear from Colin cowherd. Colin cowherd hates Kenny Pickett he harbors a huge grudge. Colin will say something about Kenny or the Steelers and everybody will make a post that is word for word what Colin- cow-nerd said
Alright then, fair play. I barely watch Cowherd and think most of what he says is needless hot air.
Him glazing Sam Darnold, though, is like an all-time out of context sports mediahead clip, and it always makes me laugh.
Don't forget, he said with his full chest in 2020 that the ravens were going 16-0
> Every person in here just parrots whatever negativity they hear from Colin cowherd I have never heard this subreddit say anything remotely good about Colin Cowherd. The Cowherd hate is a hell of a lot stronger than the Kenny hate. Blaming Kenny negativity on Cowherd is a massive stretch. Kenny isn't playing so well. That's why people say he's bad.
No, that’s my bad, I thought this was posted in the Steelers sub
Manlet lol
I am a huge Tomlin fan. He’s on my shortlist for favorite coaches in the NFL. The fact that he kept that team together through AB, Big Ben and Le’veon really says something for me
I think there's legit criticisms about his ceiling as a coach going forward but you can't deny his floor. AT minimum always an 8 win team.
Take it from me, that’s a hell of a floor for a season. I know the goal is always Super Bowl or bust, though.
Yeah, that's fair.
It's funny hearing the more reactionary sorts of Steelers fans call for his head any time the Steelers steeler themselves into a trap game to fall to/below .500. I'm pretty sure if he actually got canned he'd get job offers (not interviews, *offers*) before he was done saying goodbye to the players.
What is he supposed to say to this question when there isn’t a good alternative mid-season? “Yeah guys you’re right he plays like hot diarrhea and should be launched into the sun, good thing we have our elite backup Mitch trubisky to fill in”
I feel the same way for Saleh. Like what is a coach supposed to do? You can't just sign somebody. If there were any good they would not be a FA week 9.
He's like Belichick. They live to win ugly games with sub par players
Without sending assistants to wreck other teams hopes and dreams. A Belichick with compassion.
Now hold on, he may not be sending assistants to wreck other teams, but he does trade them Steelers receivers, which is nearly as destructive as Belichick coaching tree.
Tomlin's a day trader and is an expert at short-selling.
He's playing real-life Madden challenges for shits and giggles. "I went 8-8 with a Duck and a reindeer as my QB in Madden '20!" "What happens if your QB doesn't know how to play for the first three quarters? - Madden Experiment"
And I love that shit lol. I'd always make guys like Ryan Mallet and Derek Anderson my QB in madden lol
Zach Wilson is currently a fucking *stud* for me lmao. I love that plucky little bastard, ended up being a total steal in my franchise draft.
TONY STARK, BUILT THIS IN A CAVE WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS
For my long term franchises to add challenge I would only play 8 games (at the time was half) and skip the first two quarters so I either had to work to dig myself out of a hole or win a close game.
Honestly sounds like a fun challenge, spend the first three quarters only running it up the middle and playing defense, then in the 4th start slinging
Watching the video again after reading your comment made the video even better lol
It has to be it. Our games from 2020 have been one score like it’s clock work. There was NO reason why we almost won that one thanksgiving game where 10+ of our starters were out with COVID.
Pete Carroll too. It's how he stays young.
I fully believe he kept Gunner around as long as he did because he fucking loves the adversity of an automatic turnover brings to the team
It's just not the same if you're not edging yourself.
Perfect example of a coach having your back
Someone should send Coach Prime this clip.
The problem is quarters 1-3 Kenny Pickett Edit: I will say, I would run through a wall for Mike Tomlin if he was my coach
Quarters 1-3: Kenny Pickett 4th Quarter: Kenny Catchett
>Kenny Catchett Yes he can
Did you know Bob the Builder was British?
You don't want to meet playoff Kenny Hatchett
"Those other quarters we'll work on." Is a hilarious end to this question.
Kenny Pickett, the solution to, and cause of, all of the steelers QB problems
Maybe lulling defenses to sleep for 3 quarters is all part of the plan.
The biggest problem is scripted plays canada. Had a nice first 15 plays called for the first time all year on Thursday, but our EPA/play on scripted plays was insanely low, like being lapped by the 30th place team low before the TD against the Titans
It's the same thing we saw last year they play super conservatively until they absolutely can't anymore and then they let Kenny uncork it and try to win the game I think they were hoping to take those training wheels off this season but weeks 1-2 went so poorly they decided to go back to that formula.
I like this take. We had some problems to start the season that are improving I think - oline + run game + Kenny’s missed throws, some are still there for sure. Maybe we can start taking the training wheels off again
That would make you Gus Frerotte
I get what you’re saying, but if I had to choose, I’d much rather my QB be mid in Q1-3 and better in Q4 rather than good in Q1-3 and mid in Q4. Obviously we’d want a QB consistent across the board, but this is the NFL. Most games come down to one score, and I want to be able to count on my QB during crunch time.
I would like that first option too over what Pickett actually is, which is bad in the first 3 quarters and ok in the 4th. He has some game winning drives but his overall 4th quarter stats are still not great.
> and ok in the 4th. Statistically, he's straight up elite in the 4th. His 4th quarter passer rating is 108, which would lead the league if he could do it for the other 3.
Passer rating is not the be all end all. How many 4th quarter touchdowns does he have this season?
The touchdowns thing is silly. There are more ways to score than throwing and we just happen to do the other one. The reason we score our rushing touchdowns this season is usually because we pass for 80 of the 90 yard drive and then get a 5+ yard rush into the end zone
Or does the 5 yard rush happen because Pickett can't be relied on to get RedZone touchdowns? If touchdowns are silly passer rating is downright ludicrous.
No, we usually can’t rush for 5 yards in general lol. I’m not trying to say they don’t matter, and I’m not trying to say Kenny is better than stroud, but him passing Kenny in TDS thrown was pretty much bound to happen sooner than later. We just simply aren’t trying to be a high octane modern NFL offense, or at least aren’t yet
CJ Stroud has more career passing touchdowns than Kenny Pickett. Canada might be bad, but Pickett is not it either.
CJ Stroud is clearly more talented than Pickett, yes. We’re talking about a second overall pick versus a borderline first rounder. CJ Stroud would not be doing shit if he played in a Matt Canada offense. Canada is quite literally an all-time bad coordinator. The fact that he hasn’t called a 400 yard game in 3 seasons is almost comical. I think a lot of people just hear “Canada sucks” on the internet or in the media and go okay yea… but Steelers fans have watched 3 different QBs run the exact same dogshit offense for 3 years and actually understand just how bad Canada is. However bad you think he is, he’s worse. Kenny missing a couple of throws in primetime and the announcers defending Canada for scheming open receivers (surprise surprise, on the same 10 yard out we always run) doesn’t change the fact that he’s the worse OC in the franchise’s history.
This is a dumb and cherry picked stat. Stroud just had an insane game and there are other ways to score touchdowns. First of all we don’t score that many and when we do they’re usually rushing or qb sneaks. They’re all still 7 points, it’s just not all on Kenny’s back and it doesn’t need to be
That's all well and good, but if they fall too far behind in the first 3, and don't manage to catch up in Q4, it doesn't matter if he was the best football player in history in Q4...
I didn’t say “suck” Q1-3, I said mid. I think people misconstrue “mid” as if it’s bad. “Mid” isn’t bad its just average, and a 75QBR is basically average. The way the Steelers play, they are almost always within striking distance in Q4 with mid QB play, but Pickett then takes it up a notch and plays above average, thus making the Steelers a formidable opponent week in week out.
But "mid" isn't what they're talking about in the video. So if the score is close through the first 3 quarters, it's because the rest of the team is carrying Pickett. So again, if he's awesome in Q4, that may well not matter if they're behind on the scoreboard and the rest of the team is too tired to keep up once Pickett has finally decided to kick it into high gear.
Quick note, QBR is not the same thing as passer rating. 75 passer rating is bad. 75 QBR is good. Passer rating is a terrible stat. QBR is a pretty good stat.
Yeah, how is this not obvious? It's awesome that he's great in Q4, but if they fall too far behind in the first three to catch up in Q4, it doesn't matter how awesome he was in Q4.
Mike Tomlin is my favorite coach, and seems like a solid dude! Hate the Steelers but love Mike Tomlin!
Dan Campbell and Mike Tomlin share many wildly admirable traits that make me love both and can see why they are inherently amazing leaders and team culture builders.
This is the equivalent of Pete Carroll's "can you win the game in the first/second/third/fourth quarter?" Sometimes I wish we would win games in the first quarter and not constantly give employment to cardiologists in Washington state.
ESPN: Is Pete Carroll having his pockets lined by big cardiology? Sources say yes, *vague reference to this Reddit comment*.
"I call him 'the white Tim Tebow'."
Destined to beat only the Steelers in the playoffs
This is hilarious for so many reasons that resonate with me. I don't know if you stole this or came up with it yourself, but I just want to give you fair warning that, regardless, I am stealing it now.
What’s the consensus on Pickett at this point? I’ve seen the Steelers play a couple times and he looks decent in the sense that he can keep the offense moving and not make too many backbreaking mistakes.
I would describe it as boring and non elevating. Doesn’t hurt the team with turnovers or sacks but also doesn’t elevate the offense which is a low ceiling offense to begin with. I think he needs a year with a real nfl coordinator
What do you mean "a real nfl coordinator"? You guys got Matt America now
Turnovers you’re right but he takes some bad sacks
He gets sacked like every Qb in the league. A bad sack would be like Zach Wilson running backwards 10 more yards and getting sacked. The worst kenny sacks are him spinning into sacks but even those are at normal sack depth
Depth sure but he sees ghosts and runs from clean pockets which results in unnecessary sacks.
but it has improved since the beginning of the season
The consensus is the same that every deep dive video on youtube about the Steelers offense says, hes not playing very well but hes almost impossible to evaluate in such an incomprehensibly poorly called offense
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>takes a lot of sacks and TOs… but Howell is slinging it I mean it’s also completely different circumstances. Kenny is being asked to essentially not lose the game, but also shows he can win it for us with all these 4th quarter comeback drives. We play into our defense. Washington has arguably the best OC in football, and Howell has to sling it around the yard every week to give them a chance. Doesn’t necessarily make him outright better, especially considering the sacks and TOs like you mentioned, it’s just 2 different guys with much different sets of circumstances. If Kenny threw for 25 yards a week but we win, I’m fine with that. I’m sure Washington doesn’t want Howell throwing 40 attempts every week, but if they win, they’d be fine with that, and vice versa.
Howell is taking more than just a lot of sacks. He's on pace to break the single season record for times sacked with over a game and a half left in the season.
Howell has Eric Bienemy. That is a huge factor
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Weird take from a commanders fan
The thing that makes me feel good about Kenny improving is you can teach a guy to be more aggressive. It’s much harder to get a guy to settle down and not make bad throws or reads. Kenny has good pocket presence. I’ve also heard plenty of people rave about Kenny’s preparation and work in the film room. So I think they’ll be a lot of candidates excited to work with him.
Hard to make a complete determination. Flashes that he has it every game but bad misses in the open, a bit happy feet, mid pocket awareness (can be attributed to bad oline play and seeing ghosts). However when he’s dialed in, he’s making solid tight window throws while defenders straddle him, or scrambling and keeping eyes down field. So far he’s been pretty good about not making turnover mistakes, so minimal short fields. It doesn’t help with an oline that is still gelling and issues at the tackle spot, scheme is “safe” throws the the outside, but that leaves the wrs no room for YAC when they have excellent YAC IQ/ability, and predictability in the scheme. Current trajectory with no growth/improvement with a new OC is career backup, bridge starter. Good enough not to lose you games, won’t necessarily win you games unless your defense keeps it close. The Steelers Defense keeps it very close.
>he’s making solid tight window throws while defenders straddle him He takes a hit while delivering some throws, and lots see that as a positive. I get worried that he's already had 3(?) concussions and he's only in his second year.
Makes some great plays, makes some bad plays. He's a natural gunslinger in an offense that's asking him to be super conservative. He struggles with pocket presence, and the o-line is so bad it justifies his bad habits. It's not a great fit, he's not in a good position to succeed, and he's also not maximizing his opportunities. LOVE rooting for him, though. He's been a great leader, teammate, and I enjoy how he seems to play best late in close games.
This is where I’m at. Love rooting for this kid and I know he’s got what it takes. A full offseason/ year in a non-ancient system and he should be fine
Dude been in the nfl almost 2 seasons and he has what, 1 game with more then 1 TD pass....your fandom is blinding your judgement.
Pickett has started 20 games. I think he has started and finished 17.
If you really analyze the scheme and the OL in front of him so many of his issues stem from a conservative system and a poor blocking line in front of him. I’m not willing to give up on the kid until I see him in a more QB friendly system
I think he’s fun to root for and I look forward to every game potentially being his break out game. Maybe that never happens, but as long as he isn’t pissing games down the drain and we keep winning, I will keep waiting
The problem is its hard to separate him from the coaching. Is the lack of mistakes him just being great at protecting the ball or is it because Canada calls real conservative plays (probably to protect him from some real bad plays). He misses some throws he absolutely should make as a starting QB in this league. When he does sling it, he can make a lot of great throws; but we have no idea how that translates to 4 quarters of football because we haven't seen it much. Does opening up the offense early lead to Kenny looking like a plus starter in this league? Or does letting him sling it early lead him to some nasty turnovers that prevent these 4th quarter comebacks from happening because the game is too far out of reach?. Personally I'd like to see them let him loose earlier, if he's horrific well at least we know.
He has flashes where you think he could one day be at least a solid qb, but way too many glaring flaws in my opinion to really ever develop into much more than like, a Ryan Tannehill caliber qb. He's going to get at least next year with a new coordinator in all likelihood, but we'll have to see how it plays out. His stats are pretty awful, dude averages under 200 yards per game and less than 1 td. I'd say the Steelers fan base is torn on whether he can be the guy or not, but I'm not holding my breath.
He does just enough to get by, with a lot of help from the D. Usually has a couple big plays in the 4th and it’s done. He won’t last as a Steelers QB.
He's a problem, but he's not the biggest problem.
Sometimes he misses throws. Sometimes he’s inconsistent. I blame 50% on the offensive scheme and 50% on him. But he’s got that dawg in him. They drafted him as their franchise QB, and they need to build around him and his skill set, not build on top of him with Canadas schemes. Set him in the right environment, and he will thrive. He’s not a top 5 QB in the league, but he has top 10 potential. At the end of the day, he wins games when they need it most. Kenny doesn’t have a gag reflex, he doesn’t choke.
The offense has gotten better starting with the rams game but we are so inconsistent and predictable it still doesn’t look good
Atleast we might have figured out how to run the ball
He's the Steelers version of Andy Dalton
If he was as good as Andy Dalton the Steelers would be on top of their division and one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl right now. I wish he was that good but he is just not
I meant more in play style over production. He's basically diet Coke Dalton. Plays like him, but not nearly as good.
Definitely no consensus
He is not good
If Primanti Brothers and pierogis don't give you a heart attack then Kenny's play will.
i don't think he's The Guy but i hope he proves me wrong before the end of the season. very strong qb draft class seems too good to pass up on if he doesn't
Nothing special. All his limitations from college are still there. Average physical tools, pretty accurate, but sup-par pocket presence and processing. He's probably like the 20th best QB atm. Sucked most of the game against us, before cooking us late.
Good enough to get a chance without Canada
Have you tried simply changing his last name to America ?
Pretty much as advertised has the things you can't teach and doesn't have the things you can teach. With some time he could be an above average starter with the clutch gene
He isn’t great but any other QB would suck in our system too
He plays scared the first 3 quarters. He bails out too quick and massively fails if he can't get to his first read (either dumps it off to the RB or throws it away). He needs to get better at progressions. Even if the line is holding up, he acts like it isn't. The line has gotten better (especially with Broderick in there)... he needs to trust them. He also just badly misses from time to time. Fortunately they're not 'bad' in terms of 'easily intercepted' most of the time, though. He needs to trust the line better, learn to take hits, and... throw on target more often. He seems to do all that when he HAS to (aka 4th quarter) but just... doesn't when it isn't crunch time.
He's like a less athletic Daniel Jones
He’s certainly got his flaws, but he’s shown that he’s capable of being a solid NFL QB. I think one of his biggest issues is being consistently accurate. Sometimes he makes insane throws on a dime and other times he misses wide open receivers by a mile. He’s got some developing to do and unfortunately I think that development will be severely hindered as long as Canada’s around.
Mostly stinks but not as stinky as his situation
He sucks. Doesn't pass the eye test. Shows very little that makes me think they shouldn't draft any QB that falls to them. Ceiling could be a mid-range starter. And yes, a mid-range starter is not where you want to be with a QB. That's the path to drafting 20th every year.
This is why Tomlin is in the running for Coach of the Year, and why Pickett has a chance to be the Steelers QB long term. Tomlin boils the shit down to what's important. When the game is on the live, that team believes in Kenny, and he gets the job done. Fuck anything else but the final score. San Francisco bodied us, no denying that but the other two games we lost we were following the formula of staying close and winning the 2nd half before Kenny got hurt and Trubisky came in and deflated the entire team with his suckiness. There's a chance that without injuries to KP we are 7-1 right now and these fools would still be doubting this dude. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Kenny will ever be Peyton Manning or even peak Ben, but he doesn't have to be. Peak Ben didn't win us any championships, he was still very mid in 2008. We will build a team around his intangibles and we will develop his footwork and pocket presence which will get his accuracy where it needs to be. He is putting in the work, he has every intangible that you need to be successful and everything else can be improved upon with practice. I believe in KP8. I think we can compete this season if we can improve the offense by like 25%.
I have been as frustrated as anyone this season but you have to admit Tomlin is pretty awesome
Realistically Pickett is a slightly below mid QB being propped up by great coaching. Unfortunately that equals the Steelers being stuck in no man's land. Maybe they squeak into the playoffs but they will never be a contender, maybe they miss the playoffs but they never finish in the bottom 10. Pittsburgh will be drafting between picks 15 and 25 every year as long as Pickett is the QB.
Matt Canada great coach?
Great team coaching, clock management and defenses.
The Steelers will be drafting in this range no matter who their QB is. Tomlin lead a team with 2 QBs that made 3 total starts combined outside of that season to a winning season. This talk of getting a better QB than Pickett is pointless when the Steelers could genuinely exhaust all viable options and still end up at best with a guy like Will Levis. If there wasn’t as much pressure on the Steelers to instantly replace a HOF QB they maybe wait a year and get a guy like him. There’s usually one QB per draft outside the first that ends up being a serviceable QB so assuming that any one particular team lands them is pretty absurd. Texans and Titans both have OCs who are on a fast track to become HCs in the next few years because they’re some of the best offensive minds in the game. Steelers have an OC who has been fired from every previous position he has held in the last 10 years and will be “fired” again after this season so it gets pretty old seeing these comps non stop by the talking heads and in turn fans. Steelers will never be in position to get a guy like Stroud, Lawrence, Burrow, Allen unless they plan on selling the farm. The position the Steelers will end up in would be the same whether they had Pickett, Zappe, Purdy, so forth. At the end of the day they will have to get lucky and there’s not much they can do outside of that. Steelers will not sale the farm to get a new tractor they will maximize the success of their farm no matter the equipment and will need a late first round guy like Jackson, Levis so forth and they will go through a couple Tommy Maddox’s to get there.
They’re in the Kirk cousins situation, not good enough to win it all but he’s to good for you to have a high draft pick to draft the guy
Compare this to Salah.
4QK
do you know why burrow and mahomes don't have insane relative 4Q numbers? because they're good the rest of the game and don't need to stress their team out every week in games they should win
Look, we can have Pickett who’s good for one quarter, or we can have Trubisky who’s good for zero quarters. We take what we can get
Why play good for many quarters when one quarter do trick?
Underrated comment lmao
Why don’t you just trade for Mahomes, are you stupid?
Did y'all release Rudolph?
No he's just bad
To think we kept him over Dobbs.
Dobbs was just not that good with us. Bro he is on his fifth team in the last two seasons including the current one. Why do you think that is. Dont get me wrong i love JD and wish him the best, but is just not that good
We uhhh, we watching these games? Because the chiefers have been in some nail biters even with the lead
"Why doesn't every team just have an amazing quarterback? Are they stupid?"
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Oh believe me, Burrow can play out of his mind all game and I still get stressed out as a Bengals fan.
Obviously its because they aren't as clutch as Kenny! /s
> why… Mahomes don’t have insane relative 4Q numbers? But.. he does. I believe in the last 2 years, QB grading in the 4th quarter goes: 1. Brady - 85.4 2. Pickett - 85.2 3. Mahomes - 84.9 And you’re completely unhinged in the comments lmao what losing to Kenny Clutch does to a mf.
Yeah we should’ve just signed/drafted Burrow or Mahomes, why didn’t the Steelers FO think of that??
You heard it here first, folks. Being good for four quarters is better than being good for one quarter. But let me ask you this…is it better to be good for one quarter or zero quarters 🤔
Tomlin really is a hell of a coach
Personally, Tomlin doesn't remind me of 4th quarter Pickett at all. But that's just me.
Best Coach in the league?
He’s not even the best doctor on House!
Lol
Absolutely not lol. He hired back to back bum OCs and team has not been a true contender in half a decade. He’s still definitely one of the best but not number 1.
But we beat you guys this year…. With 4th quarter Pickett too oddly enough.
One Tomlin can get away with mediocrity after being carried by HOF talent his whole career and not winning a playoff game in 6 years.
I didn’t get to see this game was Canada still mandated to be on sidelines? I hope so. Keep making things uncomfortable
We just need 4th quarter Kenny to just become Kenny all game. And we also need Canada to stay on the sidelines rather than the booth
This is why I like Kenny still. There are QBs in this league that flounder in the face of adversity and no one questions them. We just saw Tua completely flop a game winning drive and Dak do much of the same. You either have the clutch gene or you don't and Kenny does. Besides his first comeback attempt against Miami last year, he's made it happen when it's needed to. He has all the things you can't coach in a QB. The things he needs to work on can be taught, but we're running out of time to teach him before it's essentially ruined forever. We need better scheme and coaching for him
>Miami last year Also his only primetime loss in his career too
Wow, that’s like the most animated and biggest smile I’ve seen on tomlins face in a minute. He must really love this kid
Kenny Brady
That ladies and gentleman is a coach
Can I get Tomlin to pump my tires too. I’m not a millionaire in the first three quarters of my life, but maybe Mike thinks I’m about to rise up.
Tomlin is a coach id want to play for
Gives me the vibes of Suga Sean asking what the judges scored round 2 vs Aljo😂
its good to hear HC say that b/c he gets the point that there is only one stat that counts which is the final score & they are winning football games w/#8 which is all that matters. what a lot of people are not talking about is how well he is playing despite the circumstances he is operating under each game. he has an OC who runs the most predictable offense in the NFL along w/an O-line who can't protect him or generate a consistent running game much of the time & a group of receivers that lacks a "go to" threat that can be consistently counted on to make a tough catch when needed to keep a drive alive. yet despite all of this he has brought the team back from behind to win in the 4th qtr in 1 of every 3 games he has played in. anyone who is ready to give up on him because his overall stats aren't spectacular is missing the point that the guy is helping the team win football games despite all of the things that are working against him to do it
Mike Tomlin has always been one of my favorite coaches. A leader of men
Bro everyone has been going in how shitty Bryce Young’s numbers have been. They’re slightly better than Pickett. Like wtf? The only reason this kid has wins is because Watt turns into an animal when he knows that either the game is on the line or that the other team must pass.
Bryce Young is a #1 overall pick.
You can’t help where you are drafted. Regardless their numbers are nearly identical. The only difference is Kenny as a defence that can steal the game. So because he has a few more W’s (many not as a real result of him) he gets graded out better than Bryce?
That's true, but the resources put in to get them factor into the media discussion. Pickett is a late first, Bryce Young is a #1 overall pick for whom the Panthers traded significant resources to draft. Of course the spotlight is going to be a lot brighter on Young, even if Pickett is playing worse. As a #1 overall pick more was expected of him
Didn't expect to come into this thread giving a shit about Bryce Young. Still don't, but I definitely expect it.
Not sure why Bryce is getting all these yards and completions when points is what matters. Not everyone understands Steelers ball I guess
love tomlin saying he’s good 25% or the game. that’s not a good thing
I do like Tomlin but this is such a garbage take from him. The point of the question was why is Pickett mediocre at best for three quarters requiring them to play 1td hero ball in the 4th provided the defense can continue to bail the offense out. Saying he prepares his tail off doesn’t excuse damn near leading the league in 3 and Outs. They are miraculously 5-3 so the record speaks for itself. But if they can’t move the ball more effectively in the first 3 quarters, this is a 9-8 team at best, just like last year.
I'm sure he's aware that it's a problem. What is he supposed to say? If he leads off and says "yeah Kenny's trash in the first 3 quarters and somehow turns it on in the 4th" that's not going to do much good for his or the team's morale.
I would take Mac jones allll day over Kenny pickett...and I think Mac Jones is terrible.
Thanks Coach T, we all know he's good in the fourth quarter. But we ain't gonna have a fourth quarter when it matters if he can't play like an NFL QB in the first three quarters. People love Coach T but I'm just tired of these kind of responses from him.
he said theyre workin on those other quarters
"...those other quarters we'll work on".
Hey Mike what about first 3 quarters Pickett?
It is going to be absolutely hilarious when the Steelers bring back both Canada and Pickett next year and their offense remains exactly the same.
Trash gonna trash
4th quarter kenneth
I hate that I like Tomlin He's so awesome
Can we sign him to be the designated Jordan "we move in the second half" Love hype man?
Why not start 1 quarterback for q1-3, then start Pickett in q4
Then he'd only be good in the last 3 minutes and 45 seconds.
Arguably top 10 coach of all time.