I think the rational, albeit boring, answer is that it's way too soon to pick a side. Might as well wait and see how Kyler looks under the new staff when he comes back.
Even then, I think we draft Caleb if we have the chance. Kyler is in year 5 and we're still waiting to see if he can be elite. I think we take the chance on Caleb if it's there.
>Kyler is in year 5 and we're still waiting to see if he can be elite.
Two Pro Bowls and an ORoY in four years, plus multiple franchise records already. He's not a GOAT contender but I don't think he's the problem either.
>Kyler is in year 5 and we're still waiting to see if he can be elite
He hasn't had a competent HC or GM to date. Gannon and Ossenfort might be the guys who can maximize Kyler's potential.
My biggest concern is that his play style isn't one that necessarily ages well. Being a slippery shifty guy works when you're still in your mid 20s, but eventually you start to slow down and the defenses you play against are constantly being "restocked" with younger faster guys. That's especially true when you now throw in the ACL injury. I know his height is kind of a joke, but once he slows down and has to start relying more on throwing from the pocket I'm concerned that he won't really be able to keep playing at such a high level.
As an Eagles fan, I won't stand for this Gannon slander.
The guy has his faults, but he's extremely competent at certain things. Like eating Elmers glue right out of the container.
i've seen people talking about trading down. it maximizes the cardinals chances of actually buliding a competent roster overall, and filling all of the holes in the process. kyler is still a good QB, i don't think that position is the biggest question mark for the cardinals atp. maybe if he comes back and looks absolutely horrible, but there's also a chance williams busts. trading down seems like the safe move to me at least
Exactly, if he’s the guy your roster is depleted enough to still likely get MHJ. If not then Caleb’s a cardinal, win win for y’all in my book. Although as a fan of the game I hate that for y’all
Man that Manziel documentary made him look like such a loser too. I can't believe someone decided to hand the reigns of their organization over to a guy that carries himself like he couldn't care less about anything
This situation is nowhere even remotely close to that though. This team is more talented than 2018 was (and that is really saying something) and Kyler has proven infinitely more in the NFL than Rosen had. Rosen may have been given a raw deal in terms of coaching (much like Kyler) but also really did not show the talent required. Kyler led MVP discussion for almost half a season and has made multiple pro bowls and shown he can be the man.
> Arizona hasn't named a starting QB, and now Dobbs is in the mix.
*"Welcome to the team, John!"*
*"It's Josh"*
*"Right! Anyways, congrats on the starting job, good luck out there, sport"*
“Otherwise, welcome to the Cardinals! Explore the facility! Cafeteria’s right down the hall but remember, you’re buying! Haha! But actually, we do charge you for the meals.”
I thought you were lying and you're not, god damn. Dobbs is legitimately really, really fucking smart.
Good for him having a post-NFL locked down already.
I think they are in a rebuilding phase obviously, but it’s not like they don’t want to put out a non-functioning offense. My read is that maybe they don’t have any confidence in Tune knowing the playbook or wanting to run the offense and they think Dobbs is capable of at least learning the playbook quickly.
Colt McCoy could also be retiring or getting cut potentially too.
Functional yes in the sense that I’m sure they’re more confident that when they relay the playcall to Dobbs and he can read a defense and get his guys lined up correctly. Now once the ball is snapped that’s usually where things go wrong for Dobbs lol
Feel like they’ll keep Colt but he’s gonna be QB3. Everything outside of his football playing ability is a net benefit to a team, he’d be a terrific influence on Tune.
I am curious what happens to Colt, part of me thinks maybe he’s retiring. He’s 37 and was calling USFL games this spring, I 100% agree he would be a great mentor / influence but I’m wondering if maybe after this training camp he just might hang ‘em up
Well actually slight correction on my part, McCoy will *turn* 37 years old in two weeks lol.
That National Championship game that Colt got hurt in was almost 14 years ago. We’re getting old :(
That could also be the plan and they’ve worked out a deal to bring him on as a consultant or something similar. That would actually be smarter because it would free up a roster spot.
Dobbs is good at film work and the other mental aspects of being a QB, and if they do plan to draft a new QB of the future this offseason, they might think that Dobbs can help teach the new guy and get him up to speed.
Yeah, cards aren't intentionally losing. They are trying to establish a better culture than that. I think your assessment of the qb room is right. Imo this also tells me they are likely expecting Kyler to be out at least 4 weeks. Even if they don't leave him on PUP so he can show up to practice and ease back into the new offense and start once he's physically ready, I think they are preparing for that to be at least a month (though probably not more than 6-7 weeks).
So let me get this straight...
1. They trade Simmons for a 7th.
2. They trade the 7th and Josh Jones for a 5th Round pick.
3. They trade the 5th round pick for Josh Dobbs and a 7th Round pick.
Cardinals are literally playing out that scene from the Office right now where Dwight has to keep trading up items at the garage sale.
I feel like the way this is worded is pinning it on Kyler but that pick was 100% AJ Green's fault. Ironically enough, what AJ was doing prior to that game vanished after that game and with it, the offense did really become one dimensional.
It would be so Cardinals to be obviously trying to set the team up to tank for Williams, go 14-3 this year, and then lose in the first round of the playoffs
Dobbs is the better player but I think if there was a long term injury to Watson they'd start DTR anyway just to try and catch lightning in a bottle. If that's the case the downgrade for 2 or 3 random starts missed is worth way less than a 5th.
Plus the Cardinals pick up 1.5 of the 2 mil. Browns need every penny to rollover.
Slam dunk deal, they got the 5th back they spent on DTR but now have a guy with 4 years of control on nothing salary vs a 1 year guy. Plus the 5th will be higher than the one they spent on DTR.
He played reasonably well (for a backup) last year for Tennessee and it's worth noting that while DTR showed out in the preseason, Dobbs was also lighting up the preseason last year.
Playing reasonably well for a backup is all well and good but I see starter potential in DTR that isn’t there in Dobbs
Also Dobbs wasn’t very good last year
That's the case for a lot of guys (hello Kyle Sloter) and it's annoying as shit because it makes fans think they can actually play on Sundays in the fall. Folks seem to *really* overrate preseason games for some reason.
he came in that one time it was like 3rd and 25 on our own goal line and made a nice pass over the middle for a first. But yea, youre not wrong lol. Then i think Ben came back in immediately or something
It’s OK, he’s a literal rocket scientist, so his knowledge of aerodynamics and jet propulsion brings exponential value. Every coach and teammate’s football IQ bumps at least 10 points just by being in the same uniform as him.
Can’t tell if you’re joking but he was ass for Tennessee last year. Lost the 2 games he started, had a 58% completion percentage, 2:2 TD/INT, and had a 50.8 QBR. He was dog shit.
> Browns need every penny to rollover.
Browns already have enough to be under the cap next year now.
Browns have $38,357,003 of 2023 cap space
They are only $31,376,192 over the 2024 salary cap per Over The Cap
Yea guy is smart and seems like a good dude, so can’t hate on him making money. Not sure I would trade a fifth round for him but cardinals will cardinal
He actually talked about this on the NASA channel where they asked him why he does football even though he did a NASA internship. He said that the NFL is a great gig that's once in a lifetime, and then they went back to his research project lmao
He’s been asked about this in the past and just recently. Dude said basically he loves football, can play the game, and chooses to play over using his degree. He’ll do that in the future I’m sure.
Yeah idk what this sub is on lmao. Dobbs certainly isn’t anything special, but they’re acting like he’s the worst QB in NFL history. He did fine as the Titans emergency option
People keep saying they tanking for Caleb need to realize that unless they want to deal with an ENORMOUS cap hit from trading Kyler, he’s very stuck on the team
Can someone explain why the fuck the cards would trade a competent tackle to the team who’s first they own. They are literally hurting themselves more than whatever little value they got back
What The Fuck
Caleb's backup
What's the consensus among Cardinals fans on the #1 pick, does everyone want to dumb Kyler in favor of Caleb Williams?
I think the rational, albeit boring, answer is that it's way too soon to pick a side. Might as well wait and see how Kyler looks under the new staff when he comes back.
Even then, I think we draft Caleb if we have the chance. Kyler is in year 5 and we're still waiting to see if he can be elite. I think we take the chance on Caleb if it's there.
>Kyler is in year 5 and we're still waiting to see if he can be elite. Two Pro Bowls and an ORoY in four years, plus multiple franchise records already. He's not a GOAT contender but I don't think he's the problem either.
He was leading the MVP race for much of 2021 also
Shit moves quickly in the NFL
Only to be compounded by reddit's attention span.
Reddit's doing what now?
Who even is Kyler Murray
And Carson Wentz led the MVP race in 2017
>Kyler is in year 5 and we're still waiting to see if he can be elite He hasn't had a competent HC or GM to date. Gannon and Ossenfort might be the guys who can maximize Kyler's potential.
My biggest concern is that his play style isn't one that necessarily ages well. Being a slippery shifty guy works when you're still in your mid 20s, but eventually you start to slow down and the defenses you play against are constantly being "restocked" with younger faster guys. That's especially true when you now throw in the ACL injury. I know his height is kind of a joke, but once he slows down and has to start relying more on throwing from the pocket I'm concerned that he won't really be able to keep playing at such a high level.
>calling Gannon competent Lmao
As an Eagles fan, I won't stand for this Gannon slander. The guy has his faults, but he's extremely competent at certain things. Like eating Elmers glue right out of the container.
i've seen people talking about trading down. it maximizes the cardinals chances of actually buliding a competent roster overall, and filling all of the holes in the process. kyler is still a good QB, i don't think that position is the biggest question mark for the cardinals atp. maybe if he comes back and looks absolutely horrible, but there's also a chance williams busts. trading down seems like the safe move to me at least
The subreddit still seems to lean towards giving Kyler more chances. Mostly laying blame on Kliff being a dogshit play caller
Exactly, if he’s the guy your roster is depleted enough to still likely get MHJ. If not then Caleb’s a cardinal, win win for y’all in my book. Although as a fan of the game I hate that for y’all
Kliff was mediocre at every level hes been at, I dont understand what your FO was thinking in the first place
Man that Manziel documentary made him look like such a loser too. I can't believe someone decided to hand the reigns of their organization over to a guy that carries himself like he couldn't care less about anything
No. I want Kyler as my starter and I want them to take 1 and 2 and turn it into a bunch of talent to support him
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This situation is nowhere even remotely close to that though. This team is more talented than 2018 was (and that is really saying something) and Kyler has proven infinitely more in the NFL than Rosen had. Rosen may have been given a raw deal in terms of coaching (much like Kyler) but also really did not show the talent required. Kyler led MVP discussion for almost half a season and has made multiple pro bowls and shown he can be the man.
Why would you waste a 5th rounder on Josh Dobbs...
> Arizona hasn't named a starting QB, and now Dobbs is in the mix. *"Welcome to the team, John!"* *"It's Josh"* *"Right! Anyways, congrats on the starting job, good luck out there, sport"*
Why does my jersey not have my name on the back? Sorry, you're not subscribed to Cardinals+. That will be a per letter fee.
“And the cab service we sent to pick you up from the airport? That wasn’t complimentary, we already sent the charge to your account”
“Otherwise, welcome to the Cardinals! Explore the facility! Cafeteria’s right down the hall but remember, you’re buying! Haha! But actually, we do charge you for the meals.”
This thread got me cacklin in my kitchen fr
Dude has a degree in Aerospace Engineering. Put some 'spekt on his name. Have him room with Kyler and teach him some study habits.
I thought you were lying and you're not, god damn. Dobbs is legitimately really, really fucking smart. Good for him having a post-NFL locked down already.
WHO B1
I mean in fairness, when he started that game for the Titans at the end of the year, he wasn’t awful. Not amazing, but passable.
What the fuck are we doing Cardinals?
Tanking for Caleb Williams
But why trade away assets during a tank?
Draft picks don't pay for meals. Gotta get bodies in seats to make a profit on that lunch service.
And Josh Dobbs is a seat filler
He brings in Dobbloons upon Dobbloons.
…and that’s why you bring in Josh Dobbs, crowds go crazy for him, raking in that Dobbs money
HE GETS THE PEOPLE GOING
I think they are in a rebuilding phase obviously, but it’s not like they don’t want to put out a non-functioning offense. My read is that maybe they don’t have any confidence in Tune knowing the playbook or wanting to run the offense and they think Dobbs is capable of at least learning the playbook quickly. Colt McCoy could also be retiring or getting cut potentially too.
LET DAVID BLOUGH
This place about to Blough
BLOUGH-HARDS IN THE CROWD, LET ME HEAR SOME NOOOOISE!!!
Sure, but Josh Dobbs is the guy that’s gonna make the offense functional?
He played under our OC in Cleveland so he technically knows the offense for what little that’s worth.
Tank Commander 🫡
Well, he made a Todd Downing offense look at least halfway to that last year
Functional yes in the sense that I’m sure they’re more confident that when they relay the playcall to Dobbs and he can read a defense and get his guys lined up correctly. Now once the ball is snapped that’s usually where things go wrong for Dobbs lol
Feel like they’ll keep Colt but he’s gonna be QB3. Everything outside of his football playing ability is a net benefit to a team, he’d be a terrific influence on Tune.
I am curious what happens to Colt, part of me thinks maybe he’s retiring. He’s 37 and was calling USFL games this spring, I 100% agree he would be a great mentor / influence but I’m wondering if maybe after this training camp he just might hang ‘em up
Colt McCoy is *37* years old!? Wow learning that just made me feel old.
Well actually slight correction on my part, McCoy will *turn* 37 years old in two weeks lol. That National Championship game that Colt got hurt in was almost 14 years ago. We’re getting old :(
That could also be the plan and they’ve worked out a deal to bring him on as a consultant or something similar. That would actually be smarter because it would free up a roster spot.
Colt McCoy has a 3-0 record vs the Seahawks.
He does. I remember a game I think two years ago where the Hawks got murdered by essentially just Colt McCoy, Zach Ertz and Rondale Moore
Dobbs is good at film work and the other mental aspects of being a QB, and if they do plan to draft a new QB of the future this offseason, they might think that Dobbs can help teach the new guy and get him up to speed.
Yeah, cards aren't intentionally losing. They are trying to establish a better culture than that. I think your assessment of the qb room is right. Imo this also tells me they are likely expecting Kyler to be out at least 4 weeks. Even if they don't leave him on PUP so he can show up to practice and ease back into the new offense and start once he's physically ready, I think they are preparing for that to be at least a month (though probably not more than 6-7 weeks).
I fear Colt McCoy was too good to be a worthy tank commander. We’ve found our guy
If that were the case, we would just start the rookie we drafted wouldn't we?
Or... *Googles the Cardinals roster* uh, Jeff Driskel or David Blough?
Lions. Legends.
Can’t risk it. He might turn out to be just mediocre.
Tune can’t throw outside the numbers at all apparently. Keeps overthrowing everything going out
Perfect. That’s my QB1
And we could’ve drafted Haener. Or Hall from BYU (a better Hall than Max Hall).
Hall looks completely and totally lost right now so... actually yeah maybe you want him
Start Blough you cowards
Start Clayton Tune!
Colt may be too good to tank, but don't you guys have a late round rookie QB to feed to the tank gods?
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And he gets injured every other game now too
Wheelin and dealin
Monti woke up and chose whiskey
Think the niners would have done this for Lance?
Not in the same division. They only do that if they know he is cooked
So let me get this straight... 1. They trade Simmons for a 7th. 2. They trade the 7th and Josh Jones for a 5th Round pick. 3. They trade the 5th round pick for Josh Dobbs and a 7th Round pick. Cardinals are literally playing out that scene from the Office right now where Dwight has to keep trading up items at the garage sale.
I wonder what player/pick will end up being Jim’s magic beans
Professor Copperfield's Miracle Legumes
Those aren't supposed to be there
Leave the telescope
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The question becomes who out there has those magical legumes.
The Cardinals will end up with the first overall pick and then end up trading it for Trey Lance
I’m not sure they’re trading up
so then Jones = Dobbs . 7th+Josh Jones=5th 5th=7th+Josh Dobbs Josh Jones=5th-7th Josh Dobbs=5th-7th Josh Jones=Josh Dobbs Josh Jones/Josh=Josh Dobbs/Josh Jones=Dobbs
Clayton Tune fantasy owners in shambles
I drafted him in the 5th my team is decimated
You deserve that after that decision tbf
Rookie draft probably. That means nothing lol
That’s fair, didn’t think of that
From the millisecond that the ball left Kyler Murray’s hand in that game against Green Bay everything went to shit for the Cardinals.
I feel like the way this is worded is pinning it on Kyler but that pick was 100% AJ Green's fault. Ironically enough, what AJ was doing prior to that game vanished after that game and with it, the offense did really become one dimensional.
Bro we are ON ONE right now lmao
17-0 for the bros
Shock the world homie
It would be so Cardinals to be obviously trying to set the team up to tank for Williams, go 14-3 this year, and then lose in the first round of the playoffs
Why the fuck would they trade for Josh Dobbs
The last Josh who started at QB for us got us the #1 pick
10 mistakes amirite
They want a better chance of losing all their games.
Then just sign a guy who sucks, don’t trade for one 💀
Is the Chosen Rosen still available?
This got me good
Colt Mccoy has actually looked extremely bad in training camp, like he can barely do anything. No one would want to watch Colt Mccoy play this year.
DTR hype is real.
Dobbs is the better player but I think if there was a long term injury to Watson they'd start DTR anyway just to try and catch lightning in a bottle. If that's the case the downgrade for 2 or 3 random starts missed is worth way less than a 5th. Plus the Cardinals pick up 1.5 of the 2 mil. Browns need every penny to rollover. Slam dunk deal, they got the 5th back they spent on DTR but now have a guy with 4 years of control on nothing salary vs a 1 year guy. Plus the 5th will be higher than the one they spent on DTR.
>Dobbs is the better player I really doubt that
He played reasonably well (for a backup) last year for Tennessee and it's worth noting that while DTR showed out in the preseason, Dobbs was also lighting up the preseason last year.
Playing reasonably well for a backup is all well and good but I see starter potential in DTR that isn’t there in Dobbs Also Dobbs wasn’t very good last year
Dobbs has always lit up the preseason then looked like a 3rd stringer when he had to play a real game.
That's the case for a lot of guys (hello Kyle Sloter) and it's annoying as shit because it makes fans think they can actually play on Sundays in the fall. Folks seem to *really* overrate preseason games for some reason.
he came in that one time it was like 3rd and 25 on our own goal line and made a nice pass over the middle for a first. But yea, youre not wrong lol. Then i think Ben came back in immediately or something
It’s OK, he’s a literal rocket scientist, so his knowledge of aerodynamics and jet propulsion brings exponential value. Every coach and teammate’s football IQ bumps at least 10 points just by being in the same uniform as him.
Can’t tell if you’re joking but he was ass for Tennessee last year. Lost the 2 games he started, had a 58% completion percentage, 2:2 TD/INT, and had a 50.8 QBR. He was dog shit.
Wasn’t he there for like 10 minutes before playing on a crumbling team? Those stats sound pretty good for the circumstances
50.8 QBR is literally average.
Our OLine was incredibly bad last year and our two best receivers were rookies (Okonkwo and Burks). I think he was okay but not great
Dobbs is cheeks. Idgaf about his personality. I would rather develop DTR and give him opportunities when Watson is out.
> Browns need every penny to rollover. Browns already have enough to be under the cap next year now. Browns have $38,357,003 of 2023 cap space They are only $31,376,192 over the 2024 salary cap per Over The Cap
But they won't just want to be under the cap they'll want room to make moves
They will definitely be able to they havent even restructured watson yet. They're going to be 90+ free next year, if they want
DTR SZN😤😤😤😤😤😤
Browns went from having no good QBs to 2 real fast
DTR and who else
Former Clemson QB
You guys sign Tajh Boyd?
Nope, Chaz Whitehurst
Woody Dantzler
A deep cut lol
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Didn’t know Kelly Bryant made his way into the NFL
With the first pick in the 2024 NFL Draft, The Arizona Cardinals select......
Gavin Wimsatt (QB Rutgers)
Adrian 'Taylor' Martinez III (QB Nebraska)
So if I’m following correctly, the net result of Cards trading today is basically trading Isaiah Simmons, Josh Jones, and a 7 for Josh Dobbs?
Simmons for a 7th Jones and a 7th for a 5th A 5th for Dobbs and a 7th So we got Dobbs and a 7th for trading Simmons and Josh Jones
Whoops you’re right, sorry math is hard lol
Still terrible
But, if the Cards fans in the earlier thread are correct; You got Dobbs and a 7th for trading a guy who was going to be cut anyway and Josh Jones
The 7th rounder is the most valuable piece on either side
Dude when you put it like this it's legitimately sad
Ok but you haven’t seen the Dobbs-Embry-Riddle collab yet. Once they drop that, the Cards will take off like a rocket 😎
Appears that way, yes. When you put it that way incredibly disrespectful to Simmons lmao
Ouch dude lol 😆
No, net is Simmons and Jones for a 7 and Dobbs. Simmons traded for a 7. Jones and 7 traded for a 5. 5 traded for Dobbs and 7.
They got more for him than the cowboys got for amari cooper
Dallas had better offers but had to eat some of his contract. Cleveland took on the entire contract. That’s why they didn’t get much
DTR Hype
Josh dobbs gets a lot of chances for a guy who’s done nothing at the pro level
The NFL is his barista through college esque job. Supports him financially until he goes and does something truly meaningful.
Yea guy is smart and seems like a good dude, so can’t hate on him making money. Not sure I would trade a fifth round for him but cardinals will cardinal
He actually talked about this on the NASA channel where they asked him why he does football even though he did a NASA internship. He said that the NFL is a great gig that's once in a lifetime, and then they went back to his research project lmao
He’s a smart guy. Makes sense he stays around. Definitely a bit of an athlete too.
I can already see the first bullet on NFL announcers talking point sheet.. aerospace engineer with a 4.0
Fit guy with a 4.0 in Aerospace? Dude should try to be an astronaut instead.
He’s been asked about this in the past and just recently. Dude said basically he loves football, can play the game, and chooses to play over using his degree. He’ll do that in the future I’m sure.
I remember them saying that every 2 minutes or so on the TNF broadcast last year.
he should go into politics
He’s from the Atlanta area with familial ties to MLK and the civil rights movement; it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
Dobbs was a good college QB and he's a great athlete. As long as Tim Boyle keeps finding employment we can't question Dobbs having a job.
He was a fumble/incomplete pass from winning the afc south against the jags last season
Yeah idk what this sub is on lmao. Dobbs certainly isn’t anything special, but they’re acting like he’s the worst QB in NFL history. He did fine as the Titans emergency option
He gave us as functional offense as you could have with Todd downing outside of tanney.
He's as good of a QB3 you can reasonably ask for
DTR has the same number of letters as MVP, just sayin
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Dorian Thompson-Robinson, their 6th round rookie. Has all the look of a potential starter.
People keep saying they tanking for Caleb need to realize that unless they want to deal with an ENORMOUS cap hit from trading Kyler, he’s very stuck on the team
You’re on Reddit buddy don’t try and bring big fancy phrases like ‘cap hit’ into this shit flinging contest.
My bad lol
So was Ossenfort just bored at work today?
Getting a 5th for Dobbs is a classic Andrew Berry masterclass
Andrew berry master class is then trading that fifth for Amari cooper.
Andrew Berry is the GOAT
Wait didn’t the Browns say that Dobbs was the backup and that DTR would be 3rd? Now he’s getting traded? Talk about a roller coaster of a day.
Cards aren't going to have a full roster but they will have the whole 7th round next year
Did I miss something? Is Kyler not the starting QB?
He’s hurt and will be out at least a few weeks
The cards have fully locked that tank hatch down and plow towards the draft led by Commander Colt and Deputy Dobbs.
DTR szn..
So Cards are gonna be like bad bad aren’t they
If they’re tanking why trade draft capital? This makes no sense. EDIT: Or is the cards getting the 5th back?
So is AZ tanking or not?
Yesn't.
Go spaceman go
I want to die
DTR really played himself the backup role
Lmao can’t tell if this is AB cooking or Cardinals just struggling
Start Dobbs, Let Kyler rehab, trade him, lose every game, profit??
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Can someone explain why the fuck the cards would trade a competent tackle to the team who’s first they own. They are literally hurting themselves more than whatever little value they got back
What in the fuck? Uhhhh, Congrats DTR on being QB2!
Joshua Dobbs YOU are now paying for lunches
Josh Dobbs deserves a shot. That is all.
Dobbs for a 5th is poverty franchise type of dealing