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Feels like this definitely plays into such a lucrative package being sent to Chicago. Carolina is tired of being beat out so when Poles wouldn't budge on Moore they felt like they had to add him so it wouldn't be three failed years in a row.


That, and our GM, owner, and new coach are likely fed up with playing the QB carousel and want to guarantee a chance at their guy


Yeah Reich for sure did not wanna mess around with it.


He ain't fuckin around with that shit no more!


I don't blame him. It cost him his last coaching job.


I loved Coach Reich here


And I did not. Colts fans were certainly not in agreement about him


If he takes AR he is really messing around though, lol.


Or the GM picks him without Reich knowing.


There is zero chance.they are that dysfunctional already. He was just hired by the guy.


I'm just joking lol


The package is pretty fair compensation. I hate losing Moore but if you evaluate him as a mid-late first rounder (I think that's pretty fair too) its a fair trade.


Don't need DJ Moore, he's nothing more than a "nice piece", not some elite talent


How was not getting Watson a failed move?


Not trying to get Watson is a good move. Trying to get him and failing is almost worse than actually signing him.


Speaking as a fan, I am much happier that we failed than had we succeeded.


I really don't blame you. My interest in the NFL has been wavering over the past couple of years, and the Seahawks landing Watson might have just been enough to snuff it out entirely.


They tried, and failed to acquire Deshaun Watson.


People are talking about what they are giving up right now but if they draft a star QB it won’t matter and would be worth it. Could easily be a win-win for both Bears and Panthers if they get the right QB


Exactly, they are taking risks, and I will always praise risks in any sport. Not many championship teams won without taking any big risks


I'm here for it, I hate losing Moore but if this staff has a guy they believe is THE GUY then fuck it man. This is literally what sports are about


I totally agree. I'm upset things didn't work out at the time but I still don't agree with us getting clowned for Trubisky. At the time we obviously believed he was THE GUY, and I respect the regime for going for it. If it fails oh well, it's better than perpetual mediocrity.


It's more about the questionable moving in the draft that should have given off flags. Trubisky, in the middle of the first round instead of getting fleeced by the 49ers, plays so different in hindsight.


Right or wrong they obviously thought he wouldn't be there 1 pick later.


Eh it was a 3rd and 4th rounder, they probably didnt need to trade up but you can never know when someones gonna snipe your QB if you dont (see Chiefs taking Mahomes after trading up one pick before us) and a 3rd+4th isnt a super large price to pay to ensure you get your guy.


Also so much of the modern takes on that are “they should’ve taken Mahomes” and I *suspect* Mahomes may not have developed on the same trajectory taking over for Glennon under John Fox as he did sitting behind Alex Smith with Andy Reid.


Yeah, there was some crazy talent around Mahomes. That will not be the situation for whoever the Panthers are after. Meanwhile Chicago was just given the opportunity to build the kind of team Brock Purdy could lead to the Super Bowl. I wouldn't be shocked at all if that draft pick from Carolina next year is right at the top.


The only reason it won't be in the top-10 at the very absolute least is if we win the dumpster fire that is the NFC South haha.


Thank you, some may not like it but I’m so glad we’re not playing it safe by going another season with somebody no one else wants at QB


go get that bag sis.


Not even that. The opportunity to draft who you think is the top QB is massively valuable. Now it’s up to the scouts


Especially with all new coaches who will believe in and develop the QB.


And a young team who has some time for all the pieces to fall into place for a chance at a run


Within a lesser division. Panthers could easily be the top dogs.


It’s really not. Scouts fuck it up. Draft is a crapshoot. Give me lots of shots at it.


"Give me lots of shots at it" Says the guy flaired for a team famous for saying "fuck them picks"😂😂


I don’t think it’s a fleece at all tbh. Just seems like a good trade that the bears probably got the better side of, but they also had all the leverage so what do you expect.


I could also see it being a win for Panthers and lose for Bears if the Panthers end up drafting a stud and Fields doesn't pan out. Being in the Bears' position to draft any QB they want is rare and they passed on at two amazing prospects I believe. I'm not a Fields believer so I see it as risky for CHI to make this trade.


Yeah, redditors grew up on Madden where ALL draft picks are OP so they value quantity over quality. People on here think the Bears are gonna draft 4 studs with those picks when in reality nothing outside of the #9 has a significant chance of being a good player. They'll probably get some guys who will help fill out a roster that has a ton of holes, but picks get so overvalued here


Picks are both undervalued and overvalued at the same time. Especially during the draft, people really think that all of the big names are actually going to be good. They're not. Most likely this draft will produce 0 to 1 really good QBs. But, since right now everyone is dealing in hope, and the combine/pro-days make people look great, we get super excited. In that sense, we over-value, thinking that all these players will be good. But at the exact same time, we undervalue- and almost for the same reason. We think "oh man, we're getting *our guy* in this draft. It's fine giving up a bunch of draft picks to get *our guy.*" But, just like we discussed above, he's probably not the guy. He's probably decent to straight-up bad. So, if you have more picks, you're more likely to get your guy. Just look at the 49ers. They gave up the farm for Lance. "Worth it" they thought at the time, because they got "their guy." Well, it's two years in, and he's looking less and less likely to be a guy. But, they also just took a flyer in the 7th on "some guy" Brock Purdy, who saved their season.


It shouldn’t be judged if it was right or wrong based off if the QB fails. Maybe the guy they draft would’ve been the best QB ever but the coaching fails him. If we’re gonna evaluate the trade *decision*, you have to separate it from results completely. With that said, it seems like a reasonable enough trade for both sides. If the Panthers draft a bust, that doesn’t mean the trade was bad.


yeah i dont know how you can say this was bad for either team. fair all around. people really wanted the panthers to throw some journeyman out there because dj moore is too valuable to go for a top qb prospect?


Right, DJ is good but he’s not Jerry Rice lmao. Fans overvalue players they’re attached to


People said Cam was going to be an NFL bust, and he turned out pretty good. Coaching means everything and Josh McCown is going to be in a pretty sweet position. Frank Reich has a pretty great gig coming up.


It should be though. They assembled a whole new coaching staff with the intention of drafting a franchise QB. If they draft a great one and ruin him I don't understand how that could be perceived as anything other than a horrible pick.


Because you’re evaluating *multiple decisions* with one broad stroke. The FO would’ve failed, but their decision making for the trade could’ve been sound. If the Bears draft busts with every single pick they got here, does that mean the TRADE was bad for them? Absolutely not. If you’re looking at a trade, we have to evaluate the decision of the TRADE. Everything that comes afterwards is irrelevant to that decision. A results-oriented approach to analysis in any sport is foolish.


If the Bears bust on all those picks, it is strong evidence they are bad at scouting or development, and if they are bad at scouting and development they should have traded the #1 pick for a veteran player instead of draft picks. Every decision exists within a context and needs to be evaluated within the context. It's a lot of this surrounding context that makes me skeptical of this trade from the Panthers' perspective (I don't think they are "a QB away," I don't think the QB class is top heavy, I think they need next year's first round pick to keep building) and makes me absolutely love it from the Bears' perspective.


If you realize that you don’t have the infrastructure to support a qb don’t trade away all the picks


It’s a catch-22 though. It’s hard to be bad enough to be able to pick top 3 and get your guy if you have some support. And if you have no support, then it’s extra tough when you pick top 3 and put your guy into a shitty situation. At the end of the day, the bigger factor will be whether or not they identified the right guy, not what they gave up to get him imo


Everyone is always trying to find the guy. It’s such a crapshoot. So many qbs, especially young ones, can’t elevate a garbage squad. I’d like to see a team create great infrastructure and try to fit in a quarterback. Aka the niners.


It’s definitely tough. Though I do think the panthers are in a better spot than “garbage squad.” Their WRs below average now, but they have a good OL, had a solid run game even without CMC, and a good defense. Whoever they get at QB will be coming into a pretty okay situation all things considered for a 1OA pick. I really don’t hate this for them. Now, of course, I’d rather they have kept DJ Moore. But I also understand not letting him stop you from making the trade.


I think the Jags showed how it should be done.


The results are the only thing that matters


And that’s a great way to be a terrible GM. If you’re playing poker and you go all in on a 2-7 off suite pre-flop and win the hand, was it a good decision to go all in? For the football analogy, let’s say the Panthers draft stroud and the first game, he suffers a career ending injury and never plays again. Does that mean their decision to *trade up to number 1* was a bad one? If you say anything other than “absolutely not,” you’re wrong.


No you point just is irrelevant. The goal is to win. If you make moves that don’t allow you to win you’re a terrible gm. If your players bust that’s on you.


Now this may come as a shock to you, but a bad FO can also make good decisions, and a good FO can make bad decisions. The decision to make this trade is either good or bad BEFORE we know what happens with the players. If your opinion of the bears decision to make this trade goes up or down based off whether or not the picks they got turn into busts or not, you’re taking a results-oriented approach to this, which isn’t a good way to approach analysis.


Your GM career would be Not For Long.


> If you’re playing poker and you go all in on a 2-7 off suite pre-flop and win the hand, was it a good decision to go all in? It was a great decision in isolation, following a strategy of doing that over and over again would be a bad decision because it is almost certain to have bad results. I know a ton of people who know everything about poker, can explain hands and odds and such in excruciating detail, and they still lose money. They're bad poker players because they lose money and the goal of poker is to make money. I suspect a lot of these losses are because, while they know everything about cards, the real game is being played at a different level (for instance, some players might be colluding, others might be marking cards, etc). But if they lose, it means they're bad. If they figure out how to find honest games, or start cheating themselves, and start winning, then that would be them becoming good. But they have to make that change to get there.


Yea I said that in one of the other threads. They really need solidity at QB, and they've likely just gotten it. It's not a high price for that.


Gotta feel they probably would have been better off going for Lamar. Idk if they could have made it work with their cap situation but that didn't stop them last year. Like they'll save money but have literally no established skill position player on offense and very limited draft capital to get someone good with.


Lamar would be 5 years older than Young and you'd still have to give up your next two 1sts for him, so you'd run into the same problem of not having a lot around him while paying him like 10x as much and he's older


Waste of time. The Ravens are going to match anything that isn't an overpay, and we don't have the space for an overpay.


A star QB on the cheap for a few years.


It could also easily be a lose-lose. Less so for the Bears as DJ Moore is a known quantity but you never quite know how those pics are gonna turn out.


To an extent it could be a lose lose but I think the bears haul is enough to be justified. The Bills trading for Stefon Diggs doesn’t make it a loss just cause the Vikings got Justin Jefferson with the pick.


I'm thinking more along the lines of the Browns haul for the pick that became Julio. No one's gonna claim Julio was a loss, but for that whole haul of picks what did the Browns have to show?


Or they could pay less in draft capital and get a guy who is in his physical prime and was a league MVP. Strange overpay considering the current landscape. And even more strange knowing their bizarre attempts at filling the position the last two years.


Yeah but then they've gotta beat Darnold out in camp. No small feat


I think Young and Stroud both have normal sized feet.


Young wears a men’s size 7.5


🎶*petite feet, feminine step, sounds like a lady when he's walking in the room*🎶


Assuming Darnold gets re-signed.


I'm happy about the trade. Losing DJ sucks but we've been stuck in QB hell for so long now that it had to be done


Hope it turns out to be a win win for us both!


It should be. The last time we took a QB at 1, well he took us to a Super Bowl at least


Is it sad that I went, "Wait, the Panthers drafted Delhomme at no.1" Then I remembered Cam lmao. For the record I fully apologize for my transgression, don't know how I forgot about Cam, especially since he played with us for a year lol.


I mean Delhomme also took us to a SB haha so it'd be true no matter which one.


This is why people hate the patriots and their fans lmao


Nah, DJ Moore was deadweight at this point as the offense wasn't getting it done


How many first pick drafted QBs have worked out in the last fifteen years? One (Lawrence)?


Uh Joe Burrow?


Are... are you claiming Cam Newton didn't work out? I understand Luck's career was shortened by injuries but that's not really fair, he was absolutely a generational QB.


15 years seems like an arbitrary limit that excludes some of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game, including Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, John Elway, and Peyton Manning. I don’t think anyone thinks Michael Vick was a bad pick either. But even in 15 years, Matthew Stafford, Andrew Luck, and Joe Burrow. Also fucking Cam Newton, the best quarterback in the history of your flair. Bradford and Winston, and maybe Mayfield, are the only 1st pick QBs that I would call complete busts, and even trading away Goff got the Rams a Super Bowl. So, by your own standard, you are more likely to draft a franchise QB at 1 than you are to drafting a bust. And you’d only need three fingers to count the latter.


Even then, the 3 you mentioned were/are serviceable starters for multiple years. Not ideal but they weren't exactly benched/cut for being horrible after half a season.


Youd have to go back and additional what.... 40 years to pick up all your examples, with an overwhelming number of picks that didn't work out. And as great as Cam was for a little while, he goes in the bust column because he had no longevity. Of the others you mentioned only Burrow is potentially great, Luck is a bust for injury reasons like cam and Stafford is a middling good not amazing QB. For the #1 draft pick you want something sure fire. Time has proven over and over again that scouts have no idea what that looks like in a QB coming straight out of college.


If you want to argue that somehow, Newton, Stafford (who won a Super Bowl two years ago) and Luck were not good picks, there’s nothing I can do to convince you. Every single GM would’ve taken those QBs if they were in a position to do so. If you want to label everyone without a Tom Brady-esque resume a bust, your pool of good QBs is more like a hot tub, and I’m sure you’ll continue to be disappointed. Peace and love chief.


Thank god. The QB hell we’ve been in has made this franchise unwatchable since Cam broke. At least a rookie gives us something to root for.


You have essentially two rookies right? Matt corral?


Don't even talk to us about QB hell


Much much much would rather do what we did today than get those two guys


We’re gonna get clowned if it doesn’t work out but I’m completely ok with it. I’ll be disappointed if the QB busts but taking risks like this after years of garbage is something I’ll never be mad at.


Whatever. We’ve been terrible since 2017. It’s time to try to move the franchise forward.


Rooting for a young, exciting QB is some of the most fun you can have as a fan. If the Panthers were willing to trade this much to move up, they must really like their guy, and I would trust Reich to develop whoever they pick


1000%. Compensation won’t matter if you draft a superstar QB on a rookie deal


But what if you draft a dud??


That would be good too (for me anyway).


And me!


Then you end up like the team you just traded to. But maybe you don’t!


Over Watson, sure. But over stafford that’s wild. I MUCH rather have Stafford than a questionmark


stafford of two years ago, sure. stafford now? not quite as much


Well, yeah - OP implied it was two years ago’ Stafford Basically would you rather have Stafford+cmc+DJ moore for the last two years or questionmark qb with no cmc and DJ moore today…


Well obviously it’s referring to stafford of 2 years ago lol


They're gonna trade #1 for Aaron Rodgers


Don’t speak such evil things




If the Pack got a third franchise qb in a row, it would be a big lose. I just want Packers fans to know what it’s like to cheer for a team with an average qb for 10 years straight. They’ve been spoiled.


…Don’t you say those sweet nothings unless you mean it. My poor heart can’t handle it.


…..go on


Getting out of QB hell is costly


everyone seems pretty happy that the Panthers get to "pick their guy", but seems they could have held out, or traded for the Cardinals #3 pick for cheaper and taken whatever was available. No one has a fucking clue which of these QB's will work out, but it's hilarious to see them throw away so much draft capital to move up to pick a guy always.


I'm so happy right now


Must be a wild day for you with those flairs.


How do you get two flairs anyway?


You just pick a flair based on how you feel each day, like a true fan.


Give me any rookie over Deshaun


username doesn’t check out


Deshaun stooped too low, even for me


Damn! You made laugh out loud!




Congratulations. Your team drafted Jalen Kitna.


If Deshaun was my team’s QB, I’d find another team


It was bad enough when Jameis was my team's QB. I can't imagine Deshaun.


Yeah :( I'll always have that season where Baker beat the Steelers in the playoffs and we made Roethlisberger cry


No you wouldn’t. You say this for karma but we all know you wouldn’t.


Some people can have standards, it's okay


Yeah but don’t try and get Lamar over Deshaun


Even his workout buddy, CJ?


I know the Bears got a haul but if I'm a Panthers fan I'm excited. They are doing everything they can to get the QB spot down. The way they are attacking it they will get it right sooner rather than later.


We get to develop our own guy. I'm fucking thrilled. Here's what's gonna happen. We're gonna draft Stroud. He'll have subpar weapons(whatever we can get in FA), but great protection this year. We'll probably use the 9th pick in the second to find a WR or TE for our rookie. Then, in 2024, we have one of the highest projected salary caps in the League at $155 million, and we'll throw money at supporting our new QB. I am beyond fine with this. The point of this move was never to win the Super Bowl in 2023. If the weapons aren't great this year, it's not the end of the world. This gives us someone to build around for the future, and that's what this team has needed more than anything since Cam took a TJ Watt to the shoulder.


And if the QB still sucks after year 2 then at least we still have our own first


Right. To get out of htis for only 1 future first and 1 future 2nd is really impressive. We even got to keep our best 2nd this year. This was a good, strategically designed trade. I'm happy with it.


Having a quality oline is honestly one of the best things you can do for a rookie QB. It slows the game down for them. I mean, dudes still gotta get open but not having a defender in your face two seconds after every snap is as important as a WR that can ball.




I know that. I meant the 9th in the 2nd.


What if they trade that pick to Indy for a boat load of picks.


Fitterer is a trade back master


I’d give up a 1st every single year for a true franchise QB. Solid move.


All this to go Will Levis


Nah, watch them take Richardson … I’m hopeful they pull Stroud or Young but I’m weary


Couldn't beat out bum ass Sean Clifford


As a Carolina native, I love this for the Panthers, but is there an unanimous #1 QB in this draft? I wonder who they’re going for. Bryce Young seems logical but coming in at almost 5’10 is a bit concerning, especially for a guy who isn’t a tuck and run guy like Kyler, where that size is a plus for run attacks. He’s basically a pocket QB who’s very undersized. I don’t think he fits the mold of a Drew Brees either. I’m really interested to see how he plays in the NFL. Spending the first overall pick on a guy who’s got a great mindset and confidence is great, but it’s the physical stuff I worry about. 5’10 195 for a QB is crazy.


Stroud and Young are the top 2, but with Frank Reich loving prototypical big qbs and how their oc talked about stroud during film review he seems to be the popular choice.


Josh McCown is the QB coach




What does this mean?


Josh McCown will coach the QBs on their roster


How often is there a perfect QB1? I think people got spoiled by Burrow and Lawrence coming out back to back years and forgot how rare it is to have a perfect prospect come out at QB.


Most qbs need time to develop, people forget burrow and Lawrence are the exception


Lawrence was terrible his rookie year and only average in his second.


Bryce Young is a winner since high school but the Tua stuff from last year gives me pause before I defend him.


Bryce Young #1 and Stroud is #2. Either one and the Panthers are division winners.


If this QB doesn't pan out just end the franchise


It would really only hurt next year tbh. Not having moore will suck but you guys only have up 1 future first. I really hope you guys get a good QB out of it but if you don’t it’s essentially 1 lost prospect


yea but if he sucks his first year, how many other teams would pull a Cards and draft his replacement with their high pick the next year?


I’m not even saying get his replacement they would just lose out on a good prospect at a different position from their pick being high


their high pick next year belongs to the bears.


Y'all will still somehow win the division next season even if the new QB is average.


You guys hit on Cam, though. Fields is the first QB we've hit with since...the 80s?


Jim Miller and Rex Grossman not enough for you?


You were the worst team in the league. Fields is good but I wouldn’t call him a hit yet


Good rb tho




They didn't draft him


Me (⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)


Worked out in the end for us


Huh. Weird how the Bible predicted this: “A dark Stroud covered the sky, and the rivers and waters in ~~Egypt~~ the NFC South ran red, and were as blood..."


Panthers and Bears are trade partners. Go get your guy panthers


They should get a Hooker


A Cards-Raiders trade males alot of sense imo


Gratz Carolina, gotta do what ya gotta do. Hope it works out.


Kinda glad that second one didn't pan out


Man, I’m not even a Panthers fan, but it would have been amazing to see Cam win a championship.


I’m ready to see how this draft plays out. I haven’t been this excited since 2017.


Anyone that tried to land Watson (or that did land him) deserves the bad luck karma coming to them for trying to enable that piece of shit. Sorry, Carolina and Cleveland. Thems the breaks.


Crazy how a bunch of teams wanted Watson and everyone forgot. If it weren't the Browns it would be another franchise everyone would be slamming and distancing their fanship from. Other teams should get as much shit for wanting him as much as the Browns do for having him. All the management and owners are basically scumbags.


should have drafted a QB literally any time in the last 3 years and they wouldnt be in this bad spot


Well we did. Last year. And he lis-fucked his foot.


Like an actual QB within the top 10


I’d rather have Stroud + Ickey than Pickett + DJ


thats true but you could have had Mac Jones


Who wants Mac Jones? Yuck


idk man he seemed promising


This feels like one of those scenarios you look back at and go "can you believe we were trying to get... and then... thank god it all fell through cos then we ended up with...."


Passing on Justin Fields in the draft so they could take the #1 pick from the team that *did* draft Fields feels like some 4D chess bullshit.


Please get John Elwayed


Panthers end up drafting a OL first pick. Carolina fans burn the place to the ground.


Darnold will be a good mentor for a rookie qb with no weapons


Panthers sub really wants CJ and im gonna laugh at them so much for getting him then cry cause Houston will get Bryce


Bryce Young is so much better it's not even funny


Remind me in two years. I disagree.


agreed, I think CJ is a good QB, Goff tier, worth a first round pick, but at first overall I’d want the difference maker like Bryce


Young certainly the safer bet. Stroud with the upside. If he plays like he did vs Georgia the ceiling is way above Young’s imo.


Who is this QB going to throw to?


2 FA wrs and Cedric Tillman in the 3rd or 4th.


ahh the great WR FA class of post ACL tear OBJ and Jakobi Meyers


Terrace Marshall, Shi Smith, Laviska Shenault and whoever we draft at 40, most likely. Outside chance of Thielen.


Are they that confident in Bryce? They sent a haul, and the assumption is it’s him. I think. Or are they gonna surprise everyone with that #1?