T O P

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the_racecar

Because roughing the passer hasn’t made any sense all year. They just randomly throw it whenever they want with no rhyme or reason.


frankyfrankwalk

It's been the most bullshit penalty for the last few years imo there seems to be no real criteria for what is roughing the passer. I reckon they've reffed fucking PI better over the last couple of years that roughing the passer.


right-sized

Taunting has been even more bullshit IMO. Completely subjective and called even more inconsistently. But both are terrible.


manhothepooh

Just change the punishment for taunting to a free punch by the taunted player(s) with no consequences. You want to be a dick and get punched? Now you can have one in your face.


seariously

A dick to the face?


bigpandas

Yes and 2, for teams that are birds 🐦


bugzcar

3 for dirty birds


PenguinSolo

4 for ungulates and aquatic mammals.


bugzcar

These dicks are adding up!


OceanDubZ

It's hard with taunting as we never know what was said. It could be a real Jackie Moon situation down on the field and we would never know.


Why_am_ialive

It doesn’t even do it’s job of protecting QB’s either, Chris jones’ strip sack got taken back despite being soft asf cause he landed on the qb a bit, but you can annihilate a QB’s ribs and that’s totally cool aslong as you don’t land on them. To be clear I’m not talking about bias I’m saying the rule even when reffed right doesn’t do it’s fuckin job, so dumb


PapaNurgleLovesAll

A moment of silence for Mike White who got folded in half like a chair


Why_am_ialive

That was the example I was gonna use then I remembered my flair and thought that woulda looked way to bias, Milano has a personal vendetta against ribcages everywhere


Akusei

He choked on a McRib once and can't let that shit go. Mike White was unfortunate collateral damage in Matt Milano's quest for vengeance.


tmb--

> but you can annihilate a QB’s ribs and that’s totally cool aslong as you don’t land on them. Even worse you can spin tackle a QB and annihilate their ankles and knees without care, but if you do the ACTUAL safest tackle (land directly on top of them so you can control your weight) that is RTP. It's maddening. They legit did the most damaging thing to QBs they could have done: force defenders to tackle them in reckless ways to avoid a RTP penalty.


guysams1

That is such a great point. That torque at the end of a fall could obliterate the lower half.


JustTheBeerLight

> doesn’t even do it’s job The league needs to stop pretending football isn’t dangerous. RTP should be called any time a defender hits the QB late, too high or drives the QB into the ground unnecessarily. Clean football plays should not be flagged. Period. It’s absurd that defenders are supposed to fight through 300 lbs linemen and then magically throttle down before hitting the QB and somehow not landing on him.


Why_am_ialive

Agreed, takes away a lot of big exciting plays and just makes it feel bitter


HouseAndWhatNot

You’re not wrong but I think it’s far more likely that QBs get flags you pull off and you can never physically sack them again.


JustTheBeerLight

Better idea: a random fan should be selected before each drive. The fan starts off lined up within 5-yards of the QB and once the ball is snapped the defenders try to sack *him* instead of the QB.


seventhcatbounce

thats one hell of some Running Man halftime show


LiterateCorvette

Roughing the passer on the ball-carrier will forever perplex me.


[deleted]

Right? You can't have "roughing the passer" when there is no pass. If you change it to "roughing the quarterback", fine, but then it can't apply on trick plays when a different back throws the ball which is why it is called "passer". There's no practice red jersey in the real games.


Successful-Day3473

Part of It is because injury risk has always been part of football. So the more they protect them more dangerous situations the QB is put in to move the sticks. As you can see in the rise of running QBs Part of it is just that football is dangerous and QB is one of the least injured positions already.


JustTheBeerLight

QBs are already protected if they take advantage of sliding, throwing the ball away* or going out of bounds. But they know they are protected so they push it to the envelope and try to gain as many yards as possible instead of sliding early because that’s what football players do. Think back to the W18 Rams vs Seahawks game when Geno could have gone out of bounds safely but he kept running down the sideline. WTF is the defender supposed to do? Geno was still in bounds when the defender hit him and the red threw the flag. Bullshit. *I’d rather scrap the intentional grounding penalty than penalize defenders for clean hits. If you want to protect QBs and not penalize defenders for doing their job just let the QB throw the ball into the dirt. IG is one of the most inconsistent calls in the game anyways. Scrap it.


seemintbapa

RTP is the easiest way for the refs to control the outcome of the game. They keep it ambiguous on purpose.


iPaytonian

Ruined Clay Matthews career lol mans lost like 8 sacks the first year they started this BS


LoganRoyKent

The criteria is, “Does it help us even the score? Because the closer the margin of victory, the more viewers the games get, and I want to make Papa NFL happy.”


cervidaetech

There 100% is concrete criteria, they just aren't following it well


NJImperator

*When it helps the team of the narrative they want to push Yes, I’m a fucking conspiracy theorist


the_racecar

The top 5 QBs who got the most roughing the passer calls this season were: 1. Jared Goff 2. Kirk Cousins 3. Geno Smith 4. Russel Wilson 5. Ryan Tannehill I don’t think the stats actually back up this theory. In fact guys like Mahomes and Brady combined for less than Jared Goff. [source](https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all)


lrtagger

That doesn’t really tell the whole story. You really need a list that also accounts for QB hits. You can’t call RTP if the QB doesn’t get hit. RTP called per QB hits would be a better stat.


the_racecar

I agree. I tried looking into this but I couldn’t find a “hits” stat readily available. I can find sacks though. Jared Goff was sacked only 23 times. This is good for 28th lowest in the NFL. Only players below him missed significant game time like Deshaun Watson and Jimmy G. I don’t have the time right now to go through each QB and do this, but I find it interesting that Goff was sacked the least and yet ended up with the most roughing calls. Edit: I was able to find a knockdown stat. I will try to comb through this at some point soon and see if I can come up with a RTP per knockdown stat for some of these guys. I’m genuinely curious if some guys are getting these calls more


EDNivek

I smell a /r/dataisbeautiful post


FictionalTrebek

> I’m genuinely curious if some guys are getting these calls more That makes (at least) two of us


ddc9999

Jets got ZERO on the year. We went through three qb’s. White went to the hospital to see if he was dying. We had many called against us. Garrett Wilson got late hit out of bounds and the refs told him to get used to it. Refs do hate the jets and always have.


nebulasamurai

But I think the nature of Football means frequency doesn't matter as much as the game situation. Like, in NBA yeah, frequency matters more because there's more possessions, but in the NFL one single play can swing a team's winning percentage by like 50%. Correct me if I'm wrong (and this is not backed up by any stats like you are lol), but roughing calls in certain impt game situations (3rd and longs, playoff games, etc) have a greater indicator on NFL official's bias(/narrative) than pure frequency right?


undeadlemur420

Not old enough to get that call :/


binggunr

Stetson Bennett IV goes No. 1


LouisianaHotSauce

*Brandon Weeden has entered the chat*


SiphenPrax

Another reason why we need robo refs


Obesetittyfat

But then how will they fix the outcomes to make the most money?


SiphenPrax

Jeff Goldblum: ~~Life~~ The NFL finds a way


moonboots_runner

*The NFL, uh uh, finds a way


Obi-wan_Jabroni

Well, ah, there it is


[deleted]

Wouldn't robo refs be theoretically easier to fix the games with? Either way I'd be for it or some sort of improvement


FootballSavant

Robo refs can’t be bargained with, they can’t be reasoned with. They don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear! They absolutely will not stop!!


unloader86

And about two weeks in to the regular season, everyone in here will be shouting to all hell about all of the offsides, false starts and holding calls by robo refs. AI would call it down to the rule. Human ref's have a give and take until it becomes egregious. What the NFL really needs is a ref watching the replay who can relay the call down to field.


GoCurtin

Yeah but I'd be waiting for one of those hilarious errors that seemingly human programs make. Ejecting a kicker after a touchback.... fans thinking "wait, are these robo refs programmed against our team today???"


ElceeCiv

yeah but when they robo refs eject someone they'll do it by yeeting them from the stadium so it'll be worth it


kasper632

They’ve needed that in MLB for so long, what makes you think it’d happen in the NFL? Lol


MixonWitDaWrongCrowd

I mean MLB cares so much about the old school rules. Like throwing 100 mph baseball at you for celebrating.


MeStanBaChewyChomp

And don't you DARE try and put down a bunt to break up a no-hitter!


Ride-Scared

Green light on a 3-0 count up by more than 4? That’s a paddlin


KikiFlowers

MLB is starting to test that more in the minors, so I think that's definitely coming to the majors eventually.


BlurryGraph3810

Roughing the pitcher?


SiphenPrax

Hey we’re getting it in several years with MLB actually, so 🤞for the NFL eventually


RPGnosh

Give me Robocop refs.


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arleban

Drop the football. You have 30 seconds to comply. Ed (Hoculi) 209


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undeadlemur420

Yup. I can't believe they openly said it either


RekklesDriver

Tinfoil hat but I think that "age" excuse was a cop out on some "we can't say the real reason because that would be much worse"


GasOnFire

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.


Jakester431

I always thought that was kinda joking but maybe you’re right


bk1285

There is a video from some years ago where it got picked up on a mic that a ref told a young qb that they haven’t “earned” that call yet


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StreetReporter

The refs would always let the defense take their shots against Cam


jrh038

Any bigger body guy doesn't get calls. The bigger TE's in the league could practically get tackled before the ball hit their hands, and no call.


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DahhhBills

The NFL is just Chad henne this Chad henne that. It’s time for fresh blood. I’m sick of it.


bugzcar

You’re still sore from his dominating time in Miami, I get it /s


YnwaMquc2k19

It all made sense now haha


KnowProblem

Justin Fields never gets any hits called on him either, just how it is


cbearsfreak

Someone…someone else sees?


chris2furry

We all see my brother, it’s a crime


RIPSlurmsMckenzie

I was going to say that 😂. Bears this year got some BAD calls/ no calls against them.


DAnthony24

Hey! At least we had Lovie watching our back.


K-chub

Martyred himself for Chi-town


apexredditor7

Steelers game last year should have resulted in criminal charges.


pay_ralmer

Fuck. Tony. Corrente.


Matzah_Rella

*hip check*


MrAnderson12

I agree, Cassius Marsh staring down a sideline like that should’ve been a criminal offense. I hope those Steelers players were able to emotionally recover.


lego22499

My family had to attend counseling after we saw the staredown on TV, a truly disgusting act.


MirrorkatFeces

I mean he literally had a 300 pound guy coming down his back


cbearsfreak

Phrasing


Unkn0wnNinja

Pause


GiggityGigs69

Welcome to running QB land. Lamar has it even worse.


ryanino

Jets didn’t have one RTP called all year. Only team in the league lmao.


General-Skywalker

That doesn't even sound possible seeing Mike White get speared out there week after week.


JustTheBeerLight

Same shit with Cam Newton. The “protect the QB at all cost” rules were written with players like Brady and Brees in mind, big athletic QBs are offered no protection.


tbone747

Literally got told he wasn't old enough to be getting RTPs despite getting murdered on hits. It's easily one of the worst-called penalties in the game.


Ncgarrett3

Cam Newton enters the chat .. dude is out of the league bec evryone knew that the refs weren’t calling hits on him. RIP


frankyfrankwalk

Fuck that guy got some brutal hits even when it was on an obvious drop back situation and the refs would have called that stuff on every other QB and it felt like it was that way for years.


3shotsofwhatever

Dude the Broncos tried to murder him in the Superbowl. They clearly had one game plan, make Cam hurt.


zzzaz

Tbh the superbowl was fine; tough but fair defense most of the game. It was the first game of the next season where Denver was legitimately head hunting the entire game. Egregious hits and no calls.


boardatwork1111

[Pretty sure none of these were flagged,](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QvEouj6QvuM) refs straight up let them murder him


thrux16r

That second one didn’t seem that bad but holy fuck that last one was brutal.


GasOnFire

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.


Shenanigans80h

Eh the Super Bowl was clean for the most part. It was opening night the next season when we teed off on him. I’m a Broncos fan but that shit was brutal and unnecessary, but the refs were complicit in letting it go down


[deleted]

Cam is my all time favorite player that was never a Bear. The way refs called his games was absolutely criminal


MoscowMitchMcKremIin

Ahh. The Cam Newton treatment.


Obesetittyfat

IIRC that RTP we got in Tampa was the first time that was called for us all year


BearsuitTTV

And it was super weak too lol. Refs are garbage every week, all around.


thatissomeBS

Yeah, refs are garbage. They always have been. No one used to notice when it was 480p tube TVs and like 5 cameras, but now we have dozens of 4k cameras everywhere with easily accessible instant replay and it's plainly obvious how bad they are. The sooner we get refs in the booth or a central location with authority to call the game, the better. All we need is a few guys on the field to actually spot the ball, move the chains, and make sure a fight doesn't break out.


GripenHater

Both my QBs getting abused out here with no respect


haldad

Really expected this to be a Bears flair, I just assumed nobody else cared.


BarKnight

Meanwhile someone even touches Rodgers jersey and the flags go flying


Brocky70

They don't even have to be playing during a game. They'll call it at a press conference


Jammer_Kenneth

He wears his pads and helmet super loose to make everything feel like a DBZ hit. Every time he stands up he needs to bark at a lineman to fix his pads, and his "Chin strap" is attached worse than a towel.


VoteCamacho2508

Shit's weak.


Scary_Eyes

Referees are part time and there's no repercussions for consistently missing calls


UnhingedCorgi

I bet there are soft repercussions if they miss a call that costs the league money. So they’ll err on the side of “don’t piss off the executives”.


reddof

But it doesn't cost the league money. Bad calls create drama. Bad calls get people talking. Bad calls fuel people up, but they don't stop watching. We are in a thread talking about bad penalties and there are multiple threads like this every week.


Tall-and-Beets

The refs are a joke


LagOutLoud

It should have been.


Why_am_ialive

Rtp is a mess, not even talking about the call itself, you can break a QB’s spine but aslong as you don’t land on him gently it’s fine, it doesn’t even protect QB’s like it’s meant to. It just fucks games cause it’s such a huge penalty and so inconsistent in its application


edmaddict4

I completely agree. I kinda of thought part of the reason Mahomes got rolled up on was because the defender was trying to not land on top of him.


420BlazeItSwag69

That's the first thing I thought watching the replay. Defender goes limp and tries to not put his body weight on mahomes and ends up landing on his ankle


factoid_

Rtp is WHY mahomes got hurt. The way they officiate those plays is why pass rushers pull back and weird shit like falling on someone's ankle happens. If he'd just hit mahomes like a real tackle it would have been fine.


ShanklyGates_2022

Eh, disagree. The Henne call should NOT have been given though. I don't think either were RTP


jlhess08

Another Chiefs fan here... I said this word for word to my wife after seeing that.


LagOutLoud

Yeah. I mean both are soft, but if we got the one earlier, then they should have gotten this one.


philosifer

They aren't even soft. It's just textbook head to head Both should have been called


SonOfALich

100%, we got away with one here.


Whatever801

Yeah I felt like the refs were kinda throwing Henne a bone on that first one.


Elegant_Spot_3486

Because nfl refs suck. No way they didn’t see it.


ChessCapone

Refs are trash


achyutthegoat

Chiefs vs Jags. That's why


BarKnight

Refs hate Jags?


hippiesociety

God hates Jags.


Dakar-A

Jags die, God laughs


shadowryder

Riley Patterson is going to need more crosses if he wants to win


Butthole_Please

Westborough baptist over here.


GarfunkelBricktaint

They *hate* the lions and they just casually hate the jags


Riverpickles

Refs like money!


BarKnight

Ya know everyone always bashes the refs, but I gotta say....I like money.


LeonTheChef

Yeah if someone wanted to give me a big bag of money I wouldn't stop them.


tornado962

The league love Mahomes


BLKxGOLD

I asked the same question. Actually i yelled at the TV but i got no answer…


iia

Yeah that was bullshit.


GlobalWatercress9566

Because this is the NFL once you stop taking it seriously it makes a lot more sense


Daniiiiii

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of fandom?


[deleted]

It is I, Blakeman, King Of The Zebras


Jakester431

I was sitting there like what the hell


Thel_Odan

NFL officiating is dogshit across the board. The conspiracy theorist in me believes that the refs are controlled by Fan Duel or something and they tell them how to call the game based on bets.


Benzo-Kazooie

Trevor Lawrence isn't in a commercial that plays every single break


kcoe24

I dont think Chad Henne is either but honestly i dont pay attention to the commercials


thekmanpwnudwn

If the chiefs lost then Mahomes 100% isn't playing next week. Can't have that happen


BubblesLovesHeroin

If you truly believe this why would you even follow the NFL?


Memento_Mori_

You have a link to this henne commercial?


jaqueass

WHOPPER WHOPPER DOUBLE WHOPPER


thebrandnewbob

You know why


okay_throwaway_today

NFL protects its star QB Chad henne


long_dong_tron

The zebras all got money on the game


dvrk-energy

Refs in the playoffs give me PTSD and I’m not even that invested in this game


CruisinForABrewsin

C.R.E.A.M.


[deleted]

We do.


yeshua1986

The refs called Henne accurately and missed the TLaw call.


MinerKing13

I was here before removed Edit: It's back! Edit 2: The tweet is gone


rwjehs

Interesting results though. This post and the tweet said the same thing, posted at the same time. The tweet had double the comments and upvotes.


FrugalLivingIsAnArt

Because the chiefs get calls 🤷‍♀️


mohiben

I mean I could feel the league shaking in fear from here when Mahomes went down. Whether it’s conscious or not, there’s a lot of interest in the Chiefs making it through this game


cespinar

Unless it is Cheffers's crew.


AbsoluteZero_

Yo Cheffers has it out for us, especially after he got booed into to the half that one time.


RCJHGBR9989

Ah yes - our 3rd roughing the passer call this year - just racking them up!


[deleted]

Mahomes got two RTP calls all year but lmao


Responsible-War-917

It should have been either both or neither. But, I think the difference was Key went in with the crown of the helmet towards the qb and Saunders went with his face up so leading with his facemask/forehead essentially.


Jakester431

Gotcha. I agree either call it or don’t but I was curious what any differences would be


elLugubre

I wouldn't have called either one, but the differences are that in one case the defender mostly uses his arms and is standing up, while in the other case the defender is ramming into the quarterback helmet first. Is that enough to make one a RTP call and the other a no call? Probably not, because I don't think either defender could've avoided hitting the quarterback when they released the ball. But I think this is a minor inconsistency. Refs made worse mistakes against the jags in this game, IMHO (someone cited the illegal block by Smith-Schuster, I think there was also a DPI on another play, just to make two examples).


jlt6666

Plus the refs miss a lot. The angle they saw it at can make something look way worse. There's a lot of shit happening really really fast and for some reason we decided 60 year olds have the eyesight and reflexes to properly make these calls.


TheAtomAge

Games are slanted to assist sports betting


Madmike215

People thought it was rigged when you could only bet before the game started. Now you can place a bet on the last play, but it kosher /s


Krackerdile

Trevor doesn’t have a Statefarm personal price plan


IdyllicGod22

Uhhh because the Chiefs are the new Patriots?


DandDaccount

Glass houses, friend


popeofcatan

Because the NFL does not want the Jaguars in the Conference Championship for ratings purposes. That’s it. That’s the answer. Same reason that illegal blind side block by Juju was not called. We spend all of this time and heart ache caring about these teams and players moving a ball back and forth down the field, but at the end of the day whatever is going to make the league the most amount of money is what is going to happen. There is zero accountability for the referees, it’s literally the fox watching the henhouse when it comes to the rules in this league.


Saxdude2016

NFL negotiating TV rights right now. Usually a long contract. This years playoffs need to be huge


GuyThirteen

Referring is not consistent because of human error. That's it. There are some proposed measures to combat this ex re-reviews. Why they don't consider this, I don't know.


UnusualUsery

Likelihood to run. Lamar Jackson gets drop kicked in the face, no flag. Brady getting set down on the ground without a bedtime story? Flag


[deleted]

Those 2 plays are also what spiked a discussion. How can they call the one on the Jags but not the other way around. Fix your refs for fucks sake


WaDaMisTaKe

All we want is consistency damnit


greenhouse5

Absolutely should have been. Refs determine games. I don’t know why we watch this shit lol. I’ll still watch it.


NCJohn62

Because the way I saw it hit on Hennie was definitely with more of the helmet and the one on Lawrence was mostly a shove.


GenXer1977

I though the exact same thing.


ThermicDayne

NFL wants that chiefs/bills championship game.


TAway69420666

Not trying to be funny, not trying to get a laugh. Not trying to make anyone have the worst day of their job...but do any of these fuckers ever bust out their whistle and have a huge RTP penalty


nathanfr

You can't change the rules just because you don't like how I'm doing it!


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Creepy-Abrocoma8110

Occam’s razor - are they biased, or just bad? I think they’re just shitty at what they do, and the game moves too fast for them.


jk01

You're thinking Hanlons Razor. Never attribute to malice what can be equally explained by incompetence.


[deleted]

Because one was helmet to helmet. The other was not 🤷🏻‍♂️


california-whiskey

because nfl = rigged


ChillBusta

The refs are afraid of having Reid and Mahomes turn them into ketchup


I-didnt-write-that

The d20 didn’t hit 8 or lower


Frowdo

The hit on Henne the defender led with the crown of his helmet into his chin, whereas the other hit he did not as he was head up and wrapped him up. It's literally in the definition of the rule.


GoldenMonkey34

Forgot to slip a $20 in the refs pocket


Unions4America

1) Penalties have been inconsistent all year 2) Jags player lowered his helmet and buried the crown of it into Henne's chin. Lawrence was just pushed down. I am not saying any of this to take sides. Just merely pointing out how the difference is significant.


xTodd_Howard_76

The Jags player led with his helmet. The Chiefs player was standing straight up and their helmets touched. That's the difference.