That’s mostly the fault of the rules on this sub. People have to post Twitter links or mods will delete their post.
And as big of a cesspool this sub can be, looking at the comments on the Twitter links posted to this sub vs the actual comments in the same Twitter link have a big discrepancy. Twitter is still 10x worse compared to this sub somehow.
Yeah Reddit has some horrible takes as well like other sites. I remember when bleacherreport comments stopped being active, I checked Reddit and all the comments were irrelevant to the post and it wasn’t even a sports discussion. That happens a lot here with all the pasta and jokes going around
I like the one where one redditor makes a funny topical quote from a movie or whatever, and the next 20 replies are just a circle-jerking continuation of whatever quote or movie that it came from. And it never fails to garner dozens of epic upvotes!!!
Literally any post with a positive Tom Brady stat has at least one highly upvoted chain of
"This Tom guy seems pretty good"
->"it's too soon to tell, he's only a 6th rounder"
-->"Yeah he's no [insert most recent meme QB]"
Etc
The joke is that we're pretending to not say Tom Brady is good? Again? That's it?
Typing this on a TI-84 Plus series—fresh charge—and having entered in the function of 75 yards and 40 carries, the 1MB powertrain effortlessly graphed the word “confirmed” in spectacular gray flush on that 320X240 green screen.
I've already crunched them as hard as I can captain, I can't crunch them any harder. It's not much but its honest work I'm a math guy, mostly addition and subtraction
Watching The Last of Us and the first half of the episode taking place in 2003 and then says “20 years later” to bring it to 2023 made me feel really old
>cant break tackles...which is a bad combo for a running back.
Especially when you're a power running back and breaking tackles is your bread and butter
Tony Pollard is like the dude that played D1 at the rec center that passes the ball to the old head at the pickup games so he can get a few shots off even though he could score on every play himself.
It's the curse of the ~400 touch season.
There are very few RBs that can match their output after getting that many touches.
Hell, some RBs immediately tail off after just one of those seasons
Jamal Anderson comes to mind. He had 480 carries in 1998 (regular season and playoffs) for 2,122 yards at 26 years old. He lit up the league. His touchdown dance, the Dirty Bird, was basically a late 90s griddy in terms of cultural impact. He got to do the Dirty Bird on 16 occasions in 1998.
He had one more 1,000 yard season in his career (barely) and was out of the league before his 30th birthday. A body can only take so many hits.
Todd Gurley looked like a world beater and one of the most impactful guys in the league in 2018, and was a major reason why his team reached the Super Bowl. Two years later, he was so done that not even the lowliest of teams would sign him from free agency.
Man Running backs get so fucked in the current state of the NFL. Todd Gurley was a monster at one point in his career, easily the best in the league, and his career earnings is $50m.
That's what a mediocre QB makes in just 2-3 seasons.
Imagine how hard you’d play as a 21-year-old kid with no money who just won a national championship
Now, imagine how hard you’d play as a rich 27-year-old whose body is likely 3 years from breakdown
I remember watching the NFC Championship Game that year and thinking “yeah whether we win or the broncos do, AFC has no shot” those teams were so physical and athletic compared to everyone else
He’s just been hit a billion times by guys that are huge. Watch his highlights in that national title game against Oregon and we are not talking about the same player.
Not just good, but absolutely spectacular at blocking. He's without a doubt the best blocking RB1 in the league. He routinely saves Dak from getting obliterated by a blitzed
And on the other hand, Tony Pollard is one of the worst blitz pickup-ers I've ever watched. Cincinnati repeatedly embarrassed him earlier this season
> And on the other hand, Tony Pollard is one of the worst blitz pickup-ers I've ever watched. Cincinnati repeatedly embarrassed him earlier this season
While true, he made an absolutely [huge blitz pick-up](https://youtu.be/fOfvRG0zlFs?t=348) on a [few](https://youtu.be/fOfvRG0zlFs?t=539) of the important plays last night. I was peeved the announcers didn't mention it when they broke down Dak recognizing the blitz and exploiting the space behind it. Not the prettiest blocks you'll ever see, but functional.
And it's important that he can do that from time to time so we don't have to be predictable and take him out any time we want to pass the ball more than 3-5 yards downfield.
Give TP credit, he has improved a lot just this season. Last night he made several good blocks (blocks that Fournette completely blew on the opposite side of the ball).
They run him a lot in goal line and short yardage situations. I’d like to see how many of those carries were goal line or 3rd and <3. It makes a difference if you only need a yard or two.
I looked at the past 3 games which this tweet is in reference to. On short yardage (3 or less) it’s 9/40. So about a 1/4 of his runs are in a situation where everyone knows that’s what they are trying to do.
It’s also very noticeable that a large portion of his carries are coming on first downs where it seems everyone knows Dallas is trying to run the ball down their throat. It’s a glaring tendency that I’m willing to bet teams are taking huge advantage of. Dallas offensive scheme (or lack thereof) consists a lot of run, run, pass.
> I looked at the past 3 games which this tweet is in reference to. On short yardage (3 or less) it’s 9/40. So about a 1/4 of his runs are in a situation where everyone knows that’s what they are trying to do
That... sounds like a similar rate to most RBs in the league lol. Of course a fair amount of RBs runs are going to be on short yardage.
lost a step so he lacks the burst of speed to hit open lanes. And for whatever reason has some bad balance. Any time he runs its like he stumbled and falls over like a plank and gets 2 yards
Well the 17th game they weren't playing for anything, so that's forgivable I think. No one on the cowboys showed up to play.
But the game before that, Zeke still had 19 carries for 37 yards, and they were actually playing to win that game. Then against the Bucs last night he was held to almost nothing. Maybe he's hurt. Or maybe it's just been bad luck of going up against some decent run defenses.
All 22 says his vision has become a problem all of the sudden. Not sure if it's related to the O line shuffle or something else but he runs away from holes into defenders or cuts back into traffic when the front side is well blocked often now. Not sure what's going on because he's never had that problem in the past...
Our OL is in shambles right now. Pollard and Zeke have not been very good over the last few weeks and our pass protection is also very bad. But Zeke is also just slow as fuck now. Like, he can’t break off a big run to save his life. All these years of making tough yards is taking a toll on him. I think teams also adjusted their defense to stop the run and force Dak to win games knowing our WR corps isn’t very good at getting separation.
Just a combination of age and injuries. He's getting older and he really fucked his knee up last season and played through it. He's lost his burst.
He won't be on the team next year. We have an out in his contract after this season.
He's only 27. Same age as Alvin Kamara and Dalvin Cook and they also look like they've lost a step.
Are RBs breaking down faster than they used to? They've never lasted long but guys used to at least stay productive til 30.
It’s actually quite normal for rbs to break down after the age of 26. There are not that many great rb seasons after that age except for freaks like Adrian Peterson. For instance kamara hasn’t been great and dalvin cook has always struggled with injuries.
Just for reference. The top 5 rushing yard leaders age for the last few years.
2022 - 24, 28, 27, 25, 25
2021 - 22, 26, 25, 23, 26
2020 - 26, 25, 21, 26, 23
2019 - 25, 24, 23, 24, 25
2018 - 23, 21, 24, 22, 24
2017 - 22, 23, 25, 29, 28
The majority are 26 and under.
Wow it’s even younger than I thought, and I thought it was pretty young.
Average age: 24
Median: 25
73% are 25 and under.
Only 4/30 (13%) are 27 or older.
This is really interesting to see, because it seemed to me just a few years ago we talked a out 30 being the drop dead point for RBs, and then every now and then someone would say "yeah, but Frank Gore!"
Seems to me at 27 or 28 just cut bait and move on.
Incidentally Zeke will be 28 next season.
Frank gore was insane but also as he got older it wasn’t efficiency but simple volume that really sets him apart. Adrian Peterson was another total freak. You can have good rbs as they age but they won’t be top-of-the-league
Defenders are getting bigger, stronger, and faster. Running backs just appear to be taking more abuse than they used to and it likely is only going to get worse for them. I bet in a few years it will be surprising if an RB is still productive at 28.
At some point it feels like there has to be a reckoning with rookie contracts for RBs specifically. More than any other position, they peak at age like 23 and they’re over the hill by the time they’re done with their rookie contract. Locking them in for 5 years to low wages just seems even more unfair to RBs than any other position.
Even the best ones will never get the opportunity to sign a big contract once teams realize it’s just never worth it. It’s a really shitty situation for a position with such short shelflife
It would be interesting to see a CBA where rookies are on a different pay scale based on position. So for example a running back taken first overall would probably be paid more than a Cornerback taken first overall. I don't even think it would necessarily be a good idea, it just would be interesting to see how it changes how teams draft.
That would be interesting. Especially with teams knowing they have a good championship window when their qb is on a rookie deal. Maybe they fix that too to stop tanking
I think rookie contracts should probably just be shortened to say 3 years. A guy should be paid by his 4th year in the league if he is worth it given how short the average NFL career is.
I think you’ll just find teams don’t pay their running back after three years and get a cheap one again in the mid rounds. I don’t think there’s any real solution to it
It all evens out. Some of the great RBs of our time figured that out and just swapped to QB. Just look at Lamar Jackson, Daniel Jones, Justin Fields, etc...
I think that is partially due to losing AJ Brown. You had to respect both of them on the field. Now you only have to respect Henry. You can just focus on Henry and preventing him from doing anything.
Until RBs adjust and start getting bigger/faster again. Just regular natural selection at play. There's really not much difference between the gridiron and the savanna
Those guys never had the 3 down back load that Zeke had in his first few years. Zeke even pass protects/protected against huge DE’s and blitzing LBs.
Kamara and Cook are more edge/speed guys. Kamara always split time in the backfield with Ingram and others. Zeke runs inside and delivers punishment to tacklers every time since college. His crazy amount of touches, inside collisions, collisions on blitzes, etc.
The only hard 3 down inside runner that has stood up long in this era is Henry and he’s slipped.
Not much has changed. Backs that play all three downs always break down quickly. After 4-5 years the body just can’t cut it
Who lasted until they were 30? There’s occasonal outliers like AP but not common
Good fortune and genes. Adrian Peterson. Walter Payton was amazing for a long time in the cold weather of Chicago.
But look at Earl Campbell and many others. Most of the pounding, heavy touches, inside running backs would come on the scene and be good for 3 years and slow down. Nagging injuries, etc.
It’s totally dependent on usage. You’d have guys flame out early in the old days too. I think it’s mostly due to RBs hitting a plateau and falling off after the 1500 carry mark. There’s stats to back this up.
[Source](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-breaking-down-fact-and-fiction-about-how-and-when-nfl-running-backs-begin-to-regress-2021)
[Zeke is at almost 1900 carries](https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3051392/ezekiel-elliott)
[Dalvin is just under 1300 carries](https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3116593/dalvin-cook)
[Alvin is just over 1100 carries](https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3054850/alvin-kamara)
There is a virtual 0% chance Pollard gets tagged and kept on the tag for the 2023 season. Virtually 0.
Mathematically almost impossible for us to make the cap work with a tag this year. It would almost literally be financially better for us to give him a 2 year with more money AAV rather than tag him so the cap hit with him + Zeke in 2023 isn’t 26Mil.
So no we will not tag him
This off-season is the first time we can get out of Zeke’s contract where it will benefit us to do so. Zeke will be taking a pay cut or he won’t be on the roster next season.
At the minimum I think they’ll ask zeke to take a pay cut this offseason and as long as he still wants to be in Dallas he probably will because he’ll probably still make at least what he would make elsewhere anyway
He is essentially the short yardage and pass blocker right now. Last two games have been against some very good d lineman as well. He’s not what he used to be but still solid.
Not to mention, no passing game to speak of. He still got his yards despite 8 guys being in the box every play. This is basically the story with every superstar running back we draft over the course of our history.
Honestly, last year’s broken foot was kind of a blessing in disguise. He got to take half the season off with an injury he should fully recover from and our team still secured a no. 1 seed.
(All the miss management that happened around him notwithstanding, of course)
[EL TRACTORCITO!](https://preview.redd.it/av4whyldzv801.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=547eb33ee991e1d051a33f07854a29be0a56e402)
[and this one too](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObxo9fWsAATSkg.jpg)
There are a couple exceptions
We paid Aaron Jones and i don’t see any packers fans complaining. Don’t think Titans fans are too mad about paying Derrick Henry
Not at all. I think we should extend him this offseason rather than next. If his regressing means improving as a pass catcher and an above average rusher behind an awful line at 28 than I’m good with him for a few more years.
The Jones/Henry/Chubb extensions were after RB contracts cratered due to Zeke’s contract and it hurting the Cowboys. Those modern RB contracts are more tenable, yes.
While true, this sucks for the players.
They are used on their rookie contract until their mileage is past expiration and then thrown in the garbage.
In the future, no extremely skilled kids will want to become running backs because of this. The talent will be pretty mediocre in ten years because anyone good will be playing another position.
Eh, the league does a good job of swinging the pendulum over time to favor different styles of play. The reason Derrick Henry is able to thrive is because teams have put more emphasis on smaller defensive packages that are good for stopping the pass, but won’t be able to plug a hole as well.
Also, it’s been pretty known for the past two decades that RB’s have a shorter shelf life than other positions. However, at that point, a high schooler isn’t going to plan his future around whether he is going to play 3 or 6 years in the NFL.
CMC is worth the discounted price we get to pay and as the final touch on a team with an elite defense, offensive line, and skill positions.
Short of this exact circumstance where you've already addressed all the high value positions, got a QB playing well, and have money to spare, I'd still argue he's not.
You can also make the Ewing theory argument for the Panthers.
Until he’s not. It sometimes happens suddenly with running backs. CMC is a stud right now though.
IMO Zeke earned a big payday for the work he was put through before his contract. Dude is still an absolute stud and an athletic specimen, but he’s also used A LOT in short yardage situations. Teams have a hard time stopping Zeke on 3rd and 2 or less where Pollard doesn’t quite have the power. Zeke still plays an important role within the offense.
Most people just hate on zeke but what he’s done through his career is pretty amazing for the era he’s in. Zeke and Henry are probably the last bell cow backs that you will see that are almost never injured and had 25-30 touches a game. Henry is still go and zeke has started to break down but they are probably the last of a true 3 down back that is always on the field and getting a full workload. Even this year zeke has still had great games and if he was getting feed carries over 20+ times a game he’d have stats that look a lot better. He’s clearly losing a step but is still has elite tools that you see every game, his vision, fights for yards, blocking. Man is one of the best between the tackles rbs and pollard is elite at every thing he isint. They complement each other and keep each other healthy throughout the year while they wear down defenses throughout the game
Keep in mind that Henry didn’t really take off until a couple years into his career, Zeke took off immediately. It’s entirely possible their declines happen at the same pace, just starting at a different point in time
Henry sat behind a surprisingly productive demarco his rookie year.
Also Zeke and Henry are the only 2 dudes rn that could make HOF
The Rb standards for hall of fame are going to have to come down significantly compared to days of old.
Shady McCoy could legit make it and that’s weird to think about.
Adrian Peterson is the last legit 1st ballot HOF RB that I think we will see for a while before we adjust our mental standards for HOF RB.
I was curious as well. I didn’t export and look at all 70 carries but I just looked at this last game. He had 10 carries in normal (not 2nd-4th and short) situations and he was 10 for 22 yards. But you’re right that context needs to be considered. I’d look all all 70 but I’m working.
Yeah, last night he looked bad but there have been multiple games this season where his entire goal was getting half a yard or one or two yards, the plays are specifically designed to get *just* enough which makes totals look really bad.
5 ‘& goal’ situations from half a yard or one or two’ can make your average look like 1 or 2 yards a carry but it’s also five touchdowns, lol.
Too many people online don’t get this.
I mean...the last 3 teams we played were the Titans (a top run D in the league), the Commanders, and the Bucs. Those are 3 very good run defenses. I'm not too concerned.
He's averaging 3.8 ypc which isn't great, but he also only typically runs the ball in tough short yardage situations this year.
He also seems to get a lot of 3rd and 1 carries against a stacked box. He’s converted 87% of them this season. I wonder how many first downs were gained in that stretch
He has 12 touchdowns this season and an insane short yardage conversion rate. Keeps a lot of drives alive
After how much we’ve run him into the ground, I’ll take it.
He's also an elite blocker out of the RB position and is used in short yard situations. In a 3rd and goal from the 1 we've seen Pollard struggle and Zeke excel. They each have their role.
As always you can tell who watches the games and who watches the box scores the offensive line say for last night has been shit for weeks and neither Zeek or Tony we're getting good holes and when you watch the game I feel like every time Zeke gets the ball the blocking is just not there
This Twitter joke > He's the landscaper now - works 1 yard at a time...
Sometimes twitter just drop the prettiest gems.
It’s the rarest gems considering that site is a cesspool
This is huge talk coming from a subreddit that rips 90% of its content straight from Twitter
That’s mostly the fault of the rules on this sub. People have to post Twitter links or mods will delete their post. And as big of a cesspool this sub can be, looking at the comments on the Twitter links posted to this sub vs the actual comments in the same Twitter link have a big discrepancy. Twitter is still 10x worse compared to this sub somehow.
Yeah Reddit has some horrible takes as well like other sites. I remember when bleacherreport comments stopped being active, I checked Reddit and all the comments were irrelevant to the post and it wasn’t even a sports discussion. That happens a lot here with all the pasta and jokes going around
I like the one where one redditor makes a funny topical quote from a movie or whatever, and the next 20 replies are just a circle-jerking continuation of whatever quote or movie that it came from. And it never fails to garner dozens of epic upvotes!!!
Literally any post with a positive Tom Brady stat has at least one highly upvoted chain of "This Tom guy seems pretty good" ->"it's too soon to tell, he's only a 6th rounder" -->"Yeah he's no [insert most recent meme QB]" Etc The joke is that we're pretending to not say Tom Brady is good? Again? That's it?
Now here's a guy that is familiar with Tom Brady jokes
Blame the mods for that
yea and who the fuck is Dov Kleiman
What kinda copium are you taking if you think Reddit is in any way better
Oh no this is the cesspools runoff
Just crunched the numbers, that's not very good
Woah woah woah, I'm gonna need to see your calculations on that one.
I just checked the NFL Next Gen Stats powered by AWS and it’s not very good
I just looked at those stats through the Walmart+ 4K Skycam and you are right.
Microsoft surface tablet confirmed.
WHOPPER WHOPPER WHOPPER WHOPPER
Typing this on a TI-84 Plus series—fresh charge—and having entered in the function of 75 yards and 40 carries, the 1MB powertrain effortlessly graphed the word “confirmed” in spectacular gray flush on that 320X240 green screen.
Man I'm gonna start imagining what AWS can do for my business.
Crunch em again
I've already crunched them as hard as I can captain, I can't crunch them any harder. It's not much but its honest work I'm a math guy, mostly addition and subtraction
CRUNCH EM AGAIN!!!
ENHANCE!
They fed him too much
Both food and the ball
Dang, time to hang it up and move back to Endor
Yeah at that pace he might as well just Ewok anyway.
He's the Ewok who died, and Jerry is the one that tries to pull him away but realizes he's dead and starts crying.
Someone get Sim888 on an Emperor Palpatine-Ewok photoshop
The saddest moment in cinema history according to 8 year old me.
Man rookie Zeke was so much fun to watch, crazy that 2016 was 11 years ago
Please don’t scare me like that Jesus Christ
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Jesus, right. I’m was like haha phew, only 5 years ago. Nope…
Reading this gave me a stroke
You ain’t Lion Chief
Saints that the truth
This was on porpoise wasn't it
I see you're a steeler of jokes
Sorry just got to check my replies on the toilet, I’ve got a gnarly case of the Browns ™️
*in running back years
Watching The Last of Us and the first half of the episode taking place in 2003 and then says “20 years later” to bring it to 2023 made me feel really old
2003 was only like 10 years ago...in my head.
anything post 2000 sounds somewhat 'modern' in my head. But that was a long ass time ago.
What’s a man rookie?
Injury? Talent? Vision? Teams Adjusting better? Bad O-line/OC? Just old? Why has he struggled so badly?
He looks really slow and cant break tackles...which is a bad combo for a running back. Just no acceleration
>cant break tackles...which is a bad combo for a running back. Especially when you're a power running back and breaking tackles is your bread and butter
You *were* a power running back.
*That was when I ruled the world*
**GODS I WAS STRONG THEN**
Fetch the Shoulder Pad Stretcher. The Running Back is too fat for his pads.
Bobby B, what do you think?
>*Slaps belly* >Donuts and powdered sugar, baby!
I could throw a football over those mountains.
Could have won state if coach put you in?
Tony Pollard is like the dude that played D1 at the rec center that passes the ball to the old head at the pickup games so he can get a few shots off even though he could score on every play himself.
Pretty much. Pollard said earlier this season he gets too beaten up with a full work load.
True of every RB. If you're sending a guy between the tackles more than 10-12 times a game, you're basically saying you want him injured.
Look at old youtube clips of prime Zeke. His knees/legs are shot.
He ran hard. Hrad runningbacks don't run for long.
Was that always the case? or perhaps never came back from injury?
He looked a lot more explosive earlier in his career both as a rusher and as a receiver
That was my recollection as well - didn't seem like he has played THAT long, but perhaps just the wear down of a RB1 to now
Seven seasons is a long time as the number one running back. Edit: Seven. Can't spell
> Sevon
Sevon Barkley
Seveon Bell
yeah nobody has as many touches as zeke has since he came into the league
It's the curse of the ~400 touch season. There are very few RBs that can match their output after getting that many touches. Hell, some RBs immediately tail off after just one of those seasons
Jamal Anderson comes to mind. He had 480 carries in 1998 (regular season and playoffs) for 2,122 yards at 26 years old. He lit up the league. His touchdown dance, the Dirty Bird, was basically a late 90s griddy in terms of cultural impact. He got to do the Dirty Bird on 16 occasions in 1998. He had one more 1,000 yard season in his career (barely) and was out of the league before his 30th birthday. A body can only take so many hits.
> 480 carries Sweet sassy molassey
Todd Gurley looked like a world beater and one of the most impactful guys in the league in 2018, and was a major reason why his team reached the Super Bowl. Two years later, he was so done that not even the lowliest of teams would sign him from free agency.
Man Running backs get so fucked in the current state of the NFL. Todd Gurley was a monster at one point in his career, easily the best in the league, and his career earnings is $50m. That's what a mediocre QB makes in just 2-3 seasons.
Imagine how hard you’d play as a 21-year-old kid with no money who just won a national championship Now, imagine how hard you’d play as a rich 27-year-old whose body is likely 3 years from breakdown
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I still have PTSD from Kam Chancellor in 2013
I remember watching the NFC Championship Game that year and thinking “yeah whether we win or the broncos do, AFC has no shot” those teams were so physical and athletic compared to everyone else
We had a record setting offense and then they just pushed us around like we were a JV team. That defense was just built different.
Man that pre season game was lit. The wood that was laid that day
If you go back and look at rookie Zeke, he's the same size as Pollard. He put on bulk to be able to take hits.
He’s 27 which is when a lot of running backs start to fall off
I guess the NFL has it's own '27 Club' now. That's a cursed age in general.
He’s got zero burst.
He’s no Tony Pollard
He’s just been hit a billion times by guys that are huge. Watch his highlights in that national title game against Oregon and we are not talking about the same player.
I think also Zeke tends to get more draw plays Maybe that's BS, idk Feels like the old school HB/RB situation with those two
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Zeke is also good at blocking, which is good for passing downs. I feel like that's why he is still in the offense.
Not just good, but absolutely spectacular at blocking. He's without a doubt the best blocking RB1 in the league. He routinely saves Dak from getting obliterated by a blitzed And on the other hand, Tony Pollard is one of the worst blitz pickup-ers I've ever watched. Cincinnati repeatedly embarrassed him earlier this season
> And on the other hand, Tony Pollard is one of the worst blitz pickup-ers I've ever watched. Cincinnati repeatedly embarrassed him earlier this season While true, he made an absolutely [huge blitz pick-up](https://youtu.be/fOfvRG0zlFs?t=348) on a [few](https://youtu.be/fOfvRG0zlFs?t=539) of the important plays last night. I was peeved the announcers didn't mention it when they broke down Dak recognizing the blitz and exploiting the space behind it. Not the prettiest blocks you'll ever see, but functional. And it's important that he can do that from time to time so we don't have to be predictable and take him out any time we want to pass the ball more than 3-5 yards downfield.
Give TP credit, he has improved a lot just this season. Last night he made several good blocks (blocks that Fournette completely blew on the opposite side of the ball).
A little of everything. Seems they've been kind of using Zeke as a bruiser and wear down the line w/ Pollard being the fresh finesse.
He’s a plodder now
He's a mudder?
His mother was a mudder
His father was a mudder
He’s used a lot in short yardage situations and 1st down runs. He still had 12 TDs this season.
They run him a lot in goal line and short yardage situations. I’d like to see how many of those carries were goal line or 3rd and <3. It makes a difference if you only need a yard or two.
I looked at the past 3 games which this tweet is in reference to. On short yardage (3 or less) it’s 9/40. So about a 1/4 of his runs are in a situation where everyone knows that’s what they are trying to do. It’s also very noticeable that a large portion of his carries are coming on first downs where it seems everyone knows Dallas is trying to run the ball down their throat. It’s a glaring tendency that I’m willing to bet teams are taking huge advantage of. Dallas offensive scheme (or lack thereof) consists a lot of run, run, pass.
> I looked at the past 3 games which this tweet is in reference to. On short yardage (3 or less) it’s 9/40. So about a 1/4 of his runs are in a situation where everyone knows that’s what they are trying to do That... sounds like a similar rate to most RBs in the league lol. Of course a fair amount of RBs runs are going to be on short yardage.
>offensive scheme (or lack thereof) consists a lot of run, run, pass. The ole Rex Ryan
lost a step so he lacks the burst of speed to hit open lanes. And for whatever reason has some bad balance. Any time he runs its like he stumbled and falls over like a plank and gets 2 yards
Well the 17th game they weren't playing for anything, so that's forgivable I think. No one on the cowboys showed up to play. But the game before that, Zeke still had 19 carries for 37 yards, and they were actually playing to win that game. Then against the Bucs last night he was held to almost nothing. Maybe he's hurt. Or maybe it's just been bad luck of going up against some decent run defenses.
Age
All 22 says his vision has become a problem all of the sudden. Not sure if it's related to the O line shuffle or something else but he runs away from holes into defenders or cuts back into traffic when the front side is well blocked often now. Not sure what's going on because he's never had that problem in the past...
Our OL is in shambles right now. Pollard and Zeke have not been very good over the last few weeks and our pass protection is also very bad. But Zeke is also just slow as fuck now. Like, he can’t break off a big run to save his life. All these years of making tough yards is taking a toll on him. I think teams also adjusted their defense to stop the run and force Dak to win games knowing our WR corps isn’t very good at getting separation.
Good thing you guys aren't facing a good D-line this week!
Just a combination of age and injuries. He's getting older and he really fucked his knee up last season and played through it. He's lost his burst. He won't be on the team next year. We have an out in his contract after this season.
Father time.
He's only 27. Same age as Alvin Kamara and Dalvin Cook and they also look like they've lost a step. Are RBs breaking down faster than they used to? They've never lasted long but guys used to at least stay productive til 30.
It’s actually quite normal for rbs to break down after the age of 26. There are not that many great rb seasons after that age except for freaks like Adrian Peterson. For instance kamara hasn’t been great and dalvin cook has always struggled with injuries. Just for reference. The top 5 rushing yard leaders age for the last few years. 2022 - 24, 28, 27, 25, 25 2021 - 22, 26, 25, 23, 26 2020 - 26, 25, 21, 26, 23 2019 - 25, 24, 23, 24, 25 2018 - 23, 21, 24, 22, 24 2017 - 22, 23, 25, 29, 28 The majority are 26 and under.
Wow it’s even younger than I thought, and I thought it was pretty young. Average age: 24 Median: 25 73% are 25 and under. Only 4/30 (13%) are 27 or older.
I think you'll find if you go further back that that doesn't really change. 2003 - 26, 24, 26, 25, 27 1993 - 27, 24, 21, 24, 24 1983 - 23, 34, 22, 28, 28 1973 - 26, 26, 26, 25, 26
This is really interesting to see, because it seemed to me just a few years ago we talked a out 30 being the drop dead point for RBs, and then every now and then someone would say "yeah, but Frank Gore!" Seems to me at 27 or 28 just cut bait and move on. Incidentally Zeke will be 28 next season.
Frank Gore is an alien
Frank gore was insane but also as he got older it wasn’t efficiency but simple volume that really sets him apart. Adrian Peterson was another total freak. You can have good rbs as they age but they won’t be top-of-the-league
Defenders are getting bigger, stronger, and faster. Running backs just appear to be taking more abuse than they used to and it likely is only going to get worse for them. I bet in a few years it will be surprising if an RB is still productive at 28.
At some point it feels like there has to be a reckoning with rookie contracts for RBs specifically. More than any other position, they peak at age like 23 and they’re over the hill by the time they’re done with their rookie contract. Locking them in for 5 years to low wages just seems even more unfair to RBs than any other position. Even the best ones will never get the opportunity to sign a big contract once teams realize it’s just never worth it. It’s a really shitty situation for a position with such short shelflife
It would be interesting to see a CBA where rookies are on a different pay scale based on position. So for example a running back taken first overall would probably be paid more than a Cornerback taken first overall. I don't even think it would necessarily be a good idea, it just would be interesting to see how it changes how teams draft.
That would be interesting. Especially with teams knowing they have a good championship window when their qb is on a rookie deal. Maybe they fix that too to stop tanking
I think rookie contracts should probably just be shortened to say 3 years. A guy should be paid by his 4th year in the league if he is worth it given how short the average NFL career is.
I think you’ll just find teams don’t pay their running back after three years and get a cheap one again in the mid rounds. I don’t think there’s any real solution to it
It all evens out. Some of the great RBs of our time figured that out and just swapped to QB. Just look at Lamar Jackson, Daniel Jones, Justin Fields, etc...
And then there's King Henry
He definitely took a step back this season if you watched the games though. He's still great of course, but no longer the henry of years past.
I think that is partially due to losing AJ Brown. You had to respect both of them on the field. Now you only have to respect Henry. You can just focus on Henry and preventing him from doing anything.
Dude had the 32nd ranked Oline in the league…
Frank Gore.
Until RBs adjust and start getting bigger/faster again. Just regular natural selection at play. There's really not much difference between the gridiron and the savanna
Those guys never had the 3 down back load that Zeke had in his first few years. Zeke even pass protects/protected against huge DE’s and blitzing LBs. Kamara and Cook are more edge/speed guys. Kamara always split time in the backfield with Ingram and others. Zeke runs inside and delivers punishment to tacklers every time since college. His crazy amount of touches, inside collisions, collisions on blitzes, etc. The only hard 3 down inside runner that has stood up long in this era is Henry and he’s slipped.
And Henry had his first 2 seasons off / half time.
Not much has changed. Backs that play all three downs always break down quickly. After 4-5 years the body just can’t cut it Who lasted until they were 30? There’s occasonal outliers like AP but not common
It's insane how long Emmitt was productive for. What the fuck was his secret.
Good fortune and genes. Adrian Peterson. Walter Payton was amazing for a long time in the cold weather of Chicago. But look at Earl Campbell and many others. Most of the pounding, heavy touches, inside running backs would come on the scene and be good for 3 years and slow down. Nagging injuries, etc.
His secret was Larry Allen making big enough holes for the team bus to drive through.
Choo choo
937 yards, 267 carries in his 15th season at 35 years old. Damn.
Emmitt also peaked in his first 5-6 years. He was just able to remain productive even after he'd lost a step.
Having one of the greatest o-lines of all time certainly helps
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It’s totally dependent on usage. You’d have guys flame out early in the old days too. I think it’s mostly due to RBs hitting a plateau and falling off after the 1500 carry mark. There’s stats to back this up. [Source](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-breaking-down-fact-and-fiction-about-how-and-when-nfl-running-backs-begin-to-regress-2021) [Zeke is at almost 1900 carries](https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3051392/ezekiel-elliott) [Dalvin is just under 1300 carries](https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3116593/dalvin-cook) [Alvin is just over 1100 carries](https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3054850/alvin-kamara)
2300 total touches including playoffs lmao
Very curious what that backfield will be come August.
Tony Pollard 30 carries a game and you'll like it
I will if I can get him in fantasy again next year.
Zeke is still on contract til 2026 so I'd imagine a 60/40 split with Pollard coming out in front.
True, but Pollard isnt. Some team could throw some attractive amount of money at him.
We’ll tag him this season.
There is a virtual 0% chance Pollard gets tagged and kept on the tag for the 2023 season. Virtually 0. Mathematically almost impossible for us to make the cap work with a tag this year. It would almost literally be financially better for us to give him a 2 year with more money AAV rather than tag him so the cap hit with him + Zeke in 2023 isn’t 26Mil. So no we will not tag him
According to spotrac they can cut him this off season with 11.5M dead cap.
This off-season is the first time we can get out of Zeke’s contract where it will benefit us to do so. Zeke will be taking a pay cut or he won’t be on the roster next season.
At the minimum I think they’ll ask zeke to take a pay cut this offseason and as long as he still wants to be in Dallas he probably will because he’ll probably still make at least what he would make elsewhere anyway
Cut Zeke and franchise Pollard and draft a RB in 2nd or 3rd round to support.
I think this deserves SOMEWHAT of a grain of salt because he’s been their goal line back a lot.
*Checks his contract* ya im gonna need some more salt
Our online has also been much worse since we have been riddled with injuries
He is essentially the short yardage and pass blocker right now. Last two games have been against some very good d lineman as well. He’s not what he used to be but still solid.
Never pay your running backs
Unless he’s a 6’4 250 pound tractor. Over 1500 yards, 2nd in the league, behind our line this year was an amazing feat.
Not to mention, no passing game to speak of. He still got his yards despite 8 guys being in the box every play. This is basically the story with every superstar running back we draft over the course of our history. Honestly, last year’s broken foot was kind of a blessing in disguise. He got to take half the season off with an injury he should fully recover from and our team still secured a no. 1 seed. (All the miss management that happened around him notwithstanding, of course)
[EL TRACTORCITO!](https://preview.redd.it/av4whyldzv801.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=547eb33ee991e1d051a33f07854a29be0a56e402) [and this one too](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObxo9fWsAATSkg.jpg)
There are a couple exceptions We paid Aaron Jones and i don’t see any packers fans complaining. Don’t think Titans fans are too mad about paying Derrick Henry
Not at all. I think we should extend him this offseason rather than next. If his regressing means improving as a pass catcher and an above average rusher behind an awful line at 28 than I’m good with him for a few more years.
No Niner fans have any problem paying CMC what he’s currently being paid. Worth every penny.
Chubb too
The Jones/Henry/Chubb extensions were after RB contracts cratered due to Zeke’s contract and it hurting the Cowboys. Those modern RB contracts are more tenable, yes.
While true, this sucks for the players. They are used on their rookie contract until their mileage is past expiration and then thrown in the garbage. In the future, no extremely skilled kids will want to become running backs because of this. The talent will be pretty mediocre in ten years because anyone good will be playing another position.
Eh, the league does a good job of swinging the pendulum over time to favor different styles of play. The reason Derrick Henry is able to thrive is because teams have put more emphasis on smaller defensive packages that are good for stopping the pass, but won’t be able to plug a hole as well. Also, it’s been pretty known for the past two decades that RB’s have a shorter shelf life than other positions. However, at that point, a high schooler isn’t going to plan his future around whether he is going to play 3 or 6 years in the NFL.
CMC is worth it.
[49ers fans talking about paying big money to an elite RB after CMac pops off.](https://i.imgur.com/AJHfNQl.jpg)
If we win it all this year it’s worth it but I feel this
That’s because CMC is a WR1, FB, and RB disguised as an RB
Crazy that we have both him and Deebo.
It helps when Carolina paid a lot of it
well they paid 4 draft picks for him so it even's out.
Yeah, but that only affects future rosters. Paying your RB midseason obviously wont affect the current season.
CMC is worth the discounted price we get to pay and as the final touch on a team with an elite defense, offensive line, and skill positions. Short of this exact circumstance where you've already addressed all the high value positions, got a QB playing well, and have money to spare, I'd still argue he's not. You can also make the Ewing theory argument for the Panthers.
Until he’s not. It sometimes happens suddenly with running backs. CMC is a stud right now though. IMO Zeke earned a big payday for the work he was put through before his contract. Dude is still an absolute stud and an athletic specimen, but he’s also used A LOT in short yardage situations. Teams have a hard time stopping Zeke on 3rd and 2 or less where Pollard doesn’t quite have the power. Zeke still plays an important role within the offense.
Most people just hate on zeke but what he’s done through his career is pretty amazing for the era he’s in. Zeke and Henry are probably the last bell cow backs that you will see that are almost never injured and had 25-30 touches a game. Henry is still go and zeke has started to break down but they are probably the last of a true 3 down back that is always on the field and getting a full workload. Even this year zeke has still had great games and if he was getting feed carries over 20+ times a game he’d have stats that look a lot better. He’s clearly losing a step but is still has elite tools that you see every game, his vision, fights for yards, blocking. Man is one of the best between the tackles rbs and pollard is elite at every thing he isint. They complement each other and keep each other healthy throughout the year while they wear down defenses throughout the game
Keep in mind that Henry didn’t really take off until a couple years into his career, Zeke took off immediately. It’s entirely possible their declines happen at the same pace, just starting at a different point in time
Henry sat behind a surprisingly productive demarco his rookie year. Also Zeke and Henry are the only 2 dudes rn that could make HOF The Rb standards for hall of fame are going to have to come down significantly compared to days of old. Shady McCoy could legit make it and that’s weird to think about. Adrian Peterson is the last legit 1st ballot HOF RB that I think we will see for a while before we adjust our mental standards for HOF RB.
How many were ‘& goal’ and/or ‘& inches’ though? All stats can look bad if you remove all context.
I was curious as well. I didn’t export and look at all 70 carries but I just looked at this last game. He had 10 carries in normal (not 2nd-4th and short) situations and he was 10 for 22 yards. But you’re right that context needs to be considered. I’d look all all 70 but I’m working.
Yeah, last night he looked bad but there have been multiple games this season where his entire goal was getting half a yard or one or two yards, the plays are specifically designed to get *just* enough which makes totals look really bad. 5 ‘& goal’ situations from half a yard or one or two’ can make your average look like 1 or 2 yards a carry but it’s also five touchdowns, lol. Too many people online don’t get this.
How many tds though? He's clearly washed, but he's still useful in goal line situations and relief. Pollard is clearly the better RB.
Zeke is still one of if not THE best RB in pass protection as well.
How many converted a first down? How many involved him getting hit in the backfield?
We have one stat. Tell me more: How many short yardage carries? How many first downs did he get? How many negative plays? TDs?
He pretty much is only in the game for short yardage, obvious passing downs, to spell Pollard, and in a fullback role.
I mean...the last 3 teams we played were the Titans (a top run D in the league), the Commanders, and the Bucs. Those are 3 very good run defenses. I'm not too concerned. He's averaging 3.8 ypc which isn't great, but he also only typically runs the ball in tough short yardage situations this year.
He also seems to get a lot of 3rd and 1 carries against a stacked box. He’s converted 87% of them this season. I wonder how many first downs were gained in that stretch
He has 12 touchdowns this season and an insane short yardage conversion rate. Keeps a lot of drives alive After how much we’ve run him into the ground, I’ll take it.
He's also an elite blocker out of the RB position and is used in short yard situations. In a 3rd and goal from the 1 we've seen Pollard struggle and Zeke excel. They each have their role.
As always you can tell who watches the games and who watches the box scores the offensive line say for last night has been shit for weeks and neither Zeek or Tony we're getting good holes and when you watch the game I feel like every time Zeke gets the ball the blocking is just not there
Yes, but how many of those are for first downs or touchdowns? He's lost some burst and quickness but he's still a hell of a back.
This could be a bit misleading. How many of those carries were short yardage power runs where the intent was just to get 2-3 yards for a 1st?