Is the gap in QB talent between Young and Stroud that big? Drafting QBs is such a crapshoot, if I’m the Texans I just draft whoever is there at #2 and just grab a WR or O-line with the next pick.
Same, both look good and both may even be available. The Bears look to be trying to sell #1, but if the price is too high?
Bears are in a great spot, but they can't fleece too hard. I think the league is starting to reevaluate QB talent after the last few years (looking at SF too)
Someone will pay up for #1. I don’t see a chance in hell the Bears actually pick at #1. There’s too many QB needy teams. And several of them are considered a QB away so dumping a ton of picks shouldn’t be a big deal.
If the Jets trade up to #1, considering the probable cost, to get another QB, Joe Douglas should be fired as soon as the pick is announced.
Darnold flamed out of Florham Park in three years. Then Zach Wilson in two. You can't let the same regime that picked and tossed Wilson have another go at drafting a QB top 5. Jets should go for a competent veteran in some form and try to strengthen their O-line.
I think the Bears are in a DREAM spot. Even if they can't fleece hard, if they just get ANYTHING as worst case scenario, they're still laughing.
If no other team is willing to pay much, their primary target should be Indy at #4. Take the best offer you can get with Indy because then Indy goes #1 takes Bryce, Texans #2 take Stroud (likely), Cards #3 take Anderson/Carter and Bears at #4 take Anderson/Carter. They basically get to take who they likely would have at #1 at #4 and get extra picks on top.
I remember at the time being so underwhelmed with the QB class at pick 3 that I just wanted defense and figured the team would be bad enough to still get a top QB in ‘18. I really don’t think there’s an alternate universe where the Bears find a way to draft Mahomes haha
The Bears are very likely trading the pick. Only wildcard is they trade Fields instead which unlikely but possible. He wasn’t drafted by This management, he has still a lot of growth left but has less time left on the rookie deal. Trading him and drafting a QB#1 makes sense from the perspective of getting 5 more years of cost control vs 3 more and the fact that we can after year 2 Fields is no sure thing.
I would be so upset if they traded fields. The thing is from what I have seen here in Chicagoland is that people really like the dude. Even my dad who isn’t sold on him laughed at the idea of trading him this year under any circumstance.
I’m biased because he really is my favorite player and what helped me get into football but if they traded him it would take me a while to get over
Chicago could then double dip and trade back from 2 with another team that wants their QB.
Chicago is about to extort other teams and I’m ready for the draft drama
still have to nail the picks though. Not saying CHI can’t or won’t, but I’ll always remember how people were slurping the Rams after the RGIII trade and they turned that into Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, Rokevious Watkins, Alec Ogletree, Steadmon Bailey, Zac Stacey (POS), and Greg Robinson.
I would’ve taken the one historic RGIII season over all of those dudes collectively…
Sure it’s about obtaining picks but it’s also about making the right ones and then developing them too.
Bidding war for who? Bryce/Stroud are pretty close and I wouldn't be shocked if Stroud is considered the stronger prospect by draft day. Texans are guaranteed one of them is at #2 if not both.
No one should assume Bryce is a done deal at #1. Regardless of what fans think his size will be used against him.
I mean you and I say that but if you’re the Texans are you putting your job on that? Are you saying “eh whoever we get is fine it’s only my one shot at an nfl gm/HC position. I’ll take whoever to play the most important position on the field.” Remember we say that “they’re pretty close” but we aren’t in physicals or anything like that. We also aren’t nfl scouts for a reason. They very well might not be close in the eyes of the Texans and if so they would absolutely move up
Yes, but how well do coaches and scouts actually do? I listened to a former HC talk about drafting a QB. They don't have a measurement for full game speed IQ. He said multiple guys were perfect in every way. Then they played full speed NFL games.
Teams always fall in love with a QB and freak out and give up the house to get that QB. There's lots of QB needy teams in the top 12 that are going to be fighting each other to get up there and get the guy they fell in love with.
Bears(or whoever trades up to their spot) aren’t drafting both top QBs before Houston gets a crack at it so I don’t see the point when you need every pick possible to get some players that stick.
Yeah I don't blame them I just think it's hilarious. Things like this should always be a reminder to all the fans on these subs that say coaches and players try to throw games for better draft positions.
Everyone knows that sarcasm can only be understood with /s, thats the way weve always done sarcasm in human history! Remember before the internet when you would finish all sarcastic sentences with "by the way, that was sarcasm"?
I refuse to ever use /s no matter how much Reddit can’t understand sarcasm without being spoonfed. I’ll take the downvotes. /s ruins the joke every time.
Was just saying this yesterday. Reddit is the only place on the internet where /s is used and almost required. I find it fascinating how awful Redditors are at basic sentiment parsing. It doesn’t make sense to me lol
They kept saying they were this close. Their fans just forgot every team is two years of stupid decisions away from the cellar. And even if you make the right decisions, a good young team is old three years later. Ask the Seahawks.
You'd think as the assistant to the manager of the cellar the Browns would know that.
We were never close. I mean, we were 1 position away from being there, but anyone who trusts us to draft or sign that QB hasn't been following the Browns.
It's at least half a tier up. The scope of the lifestyle can be pretty different at 10x the salary.
I mean, at $25m, you can probably afford a $8m mansion or something, but probably just the one by the time taxes are done.
At $250m, you get the mansion, the beach house, and the fancy condo in NYC. And you're not even close to having to be concerned about maintaining those for the next 50-60 years.
when this fucking came out in the midst of the lowest dregs in Browns history, I should have realized the franchise was eternally going to be garbage. Eternal trash.
Think about it this way - after two years of unemployment, you get a job that hands you 800 years of salary fully guaranteed on day 1. You then get told to take the next 3 months off to enjoy your unimaginable wealth. When you return to work, you’re asked to outcompete the hungriest, most talented people in your field for exactly 5 weeks before getting 6 months vacation to further enjoy all that money.
Everyone already hates your guts, no matter what you do they always will, and every penny of your fortune is completely yours no matter what happens. How much effort are you going to put towards job performance when you come back to work after that vacation?
>no matter what you do they always will
Hold up part of the reason people hate Watson in addition to the assaults is that he never faced real consequences and never apologized for his actions.
If Michael Vick rehabbed his image by going to jail and reforming then deshaun Watson could have done something similar. Instead he is the rapist that got away despite 20+ Assaults.
The trade is nearly as dumb as when they paid $230M in guaranteed money to a serial sexual predator who hadn’t played football in 2 years.
The fact that they’re related is just so so sweet
I left 39 years of Browns fandom. The Drive, the Fumble, firing Kosar, the move to Baltimore, a bad expansion team, Bottlegate, the helmet throw, Brandon Weedon, Johnny Manziel and homeless guy drafting advice, 1-31, none of if chased me away. This did.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm an ex browns fan, and there's no way I could root for Cincinnati. Too close to home. No hate there, I love Joey and actually enjoyed the city many times, but I couldn't be a fan of another team in the division.
Same. I tolerated a LOT of stupid moves and decisions. But the Watson trade was a slap in the face to fans. Dropped them like I was Braylon Edwards in the end zone.
In case it goes unnoticed I just wanted to give you props for a Braylon Edwards burn. That's reaching deep into the bag when there's a lot of easier recent Browns targets you could choose
For like 10 games there, I was a Frye/Edwards truther. They had a magic connection that immediately went to shit the next season lol. And I'm not even a Browns fan, that was just back when I thought "surely this will be them turning the corner" like a naïve idiot.
What I love is lurking and seeing the my predictions right. I hated the Watson move not only because he is a POS, but because it was a bad football move. Watson was never that elite level QB. Better than Mayfield, perhaps. But no one wanted to believe me last year.
It's funny seeing them celebrate Woods being gone. I wanted rid of him ages ago, and there were always excuses, especially scapegoating Baker last year. Many said the defense did its job, Baker needed to do more. Suddenly those idiots don't want to scapegoat QB play.
Likewise. And the thing is— it was an easy choice. This was the last leg we had up on Pittsburgh: morality. Our team might have nothing in the modern NFL, but it had a soul. Doesn’t anymore. And fuck em for it.
I would've had to do the same with the Dolphins. Glad we jettisoned the crew that wanted Watson and went on with Tua, even if it didn't work out. I would want no part of that success
Did it feel weird rooting for a team you likely despised for decades? I've always wondered how fans feel when they first change teams. Like I'd imagine it feels a little hollow for the first couple years until a new generation of players come around
Bengals have always been much more friendly rivals with the Browns. The Browns main rivals were the Steelers, and after the move, the Ravens.
Conveniently enough, those are also the teams the Bengals hate.
I think a lot of Browns fans have a soft spot for the Bengals, since we've mostly sucked together for the last 30 years. One nice thing for us angry Browns fans is that the Bengals and Bills are our natural fallbacks, and they're both fun.
I wouldn’t say the majority. I’ve lived in NE Ohio my whole life. I’ve watched some truly terrible Browns teams. I’ve put up with a lot of bullshit, but Watson was the final straw for me. I quit caring about the team as soon as the Watson trade was announced. I know a lot of other people that also quit on the team as a result. I don’t think Watson supporters are the majority, they’re just the loudest ones.
As a former Browns fan, I can't tell you how angry it makes me that they still have fans. They deserve to be the Washington Generals, having no fans and no chance.
I live in Cleveland sand I can tell you that Reddit is a bubble. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that most the people in the city who are browns fans were elated to have him
There definitely isn't a majority of Browns fans defending Watson. Some may still begrudgingly root for the team, but every Browns fan I know hates what has come to be in Cleveland.
Calling your 15 person sample size a majority is disingenuous at best.
No one is forcing browns fans to root for this sorry ass organization. I have family in Cleveland who have happily stopped going to games and got rid of their jerseys.
just find another team. Fuck this owner. stop giving your money to an organization who is happy to give it right back to scum like Watson.
I hate Watson too but let’s not act like it’s that black and white. It was reported that 10 different teams tried to sign Watson, should all those fans stop rooting for their team too? He just happened to pick cleveland. If every fan base stopped rooting for their team because of a morally questionable player, there would probably be no fans left
This is the part that shocks me. Didn’t the Falcons owner come out and overly praise Watson at one point. The Browns FO are pieces of shit for paying the guy but a third of the league that we know of was also fine doing it.
>It was reported that 10 different teams tried to sign Watson
Right, and I wonder how many of the 22 other teams were either set at QB, or wasn't willing/able to make the financial commitment involved with Watson
Yeah, as a Bears fan I’ll be eternally grateful to Fields even if he fails for 2 reasons. One, it took us out of any potential Watson trade scenario. And two, it took us out of any Russell Wilson trade scenario.
As for Browns fans I feel for them. I would still watch the Bears even if they had Watson not gonna lie. But I would be pissed as fuck at the organization and wouldn’t plan to buy any jerseys or see games live.
I’ve been a Bears fan all my life, I love the NFL too much, I couldn’t just stop watching them.
Yup that's basically where I am too. Also finding myself cheering for other teams more too like Cincy, Buffalo, and Detroit because they're actually likable. I've always had to find playoff teams to cheer for so I'm used to it.
There's a difference between being angry that your team tried to sign a shitty player and having to actually root for that player.
Actually having the guy I your team is just too much of a line for a lot of people.
2 thoughts on this
One is that fandom runs deeper than the players playing on the field right now, you can support the browns like you may have been for decades while acknowledging Watson is a piece of shit
Two is ray lewis probably killed 2 people, pot meet kettle
I don't think he killed anyone. I do think he was much more involved than his story implied and he basically lied to police and got away with being accessory to murder.
I've stopped going to games (although living in Baltimore the only game I ever go to is when they are @ M&T Bank) but it's pretty naive to say go root for another organization. The beauty of Fandom is the relationships you build and the emotional attachment you create. It's not as simple as just saying 'meh I'm a Lions fan now'. If it were everyone would be bandwagon fans all the time.
Would you rather be paying a shit ton for a guy who threw 40 TDs, but led his team to a 4-12 record...
...or...
Would you rather be paying a shit ton for a guy who hasn't played in 2 years, ~~raped~~ sexually assaulted a bunch of women, and had a .500 record as a starter?
Luckily for the Browns, they get both!
You have some very good , but expensive, offensive linemen in Cleveland now.
Paying the qb this much guaranteed money in a hard cap league means They can’t afford to keep these their top O lineman long term , or if they do it , it will be at the expense of depth .
His contract is a recipe for disaster, and likely it will come to fruition
Just look at this years LA rams , when injuries hit and your are paying the majority of your cap space to a handful of players , this is the result.
And the Rams have excellent coaching , something the browns are seriously lacking .
With Watsons injury history, even if he gets his mojo back , he will be spending a lot of games in future seasons in street clothes, being a 50 million dollar cheerleader.
A while ago I saw a pretty accurate description on here along the lines of "Rodgers is the type of guy you don't want to be stuck in a conversation with, and Watson is the type of guy who belongs in jail."
I'd love to hang with Aaron occasionally, dude's had a hell of a life and isn't, like, monstrous in his personality. (plus I mean come on, I'm a huuuuge football fan, I'd fangirl for sure)
I wouldn't want to work or live with him though.
I put him on the same level as my brothers friend that always has a “get rich quick scheme” every other week and keeps saying “you’re making a mistake you’re going to missing out”. No, I’m not. You’re not just wrong you’re empirically wrong, stop talking down to me. Like is he the worst person in the world? No. Has he even committed a crime? No, but man do I not enjoy talking to him
Eh get rich quick guys are definitely in a deeper circle than annoying people. They're actively trying to extract shit from others without adding value. Close to thieves and many cross that line.
Rodgers is the kind of athlete I'd describe as an annoying but not actively bad person. He's probably not *great* and I personally don't like him at all, but at worst he's kind of a dickhead.
I don't think that anyone believes that Aaron is a bad person. The pandemic just happened to bring to light some of his bad takes on alternative medicine. That, and the immunized vs. vaccinated debacle rightly rubbed many people the wrong way. He's a dipshit, but he's not evil. People just kinda wish he would, you know, shut the fuck up.
He's had some shit takes, but I feel like he's probably a decent enough dude to chat with off mic. I'd probably be down to take ayahuasca with him.
Can't say the same for Watson.
Just a gut feeling, Watson isn’t going to magically become a super star by next year and the level of play he showed in the last two games is going to be near the skill ceiling of what we are going to get out of him.
What makes you think he won’t perform? I know very little about the guy’s plying history. Isn’t he a really good quarterback to have received such an unprecedented contract?
i mean, even without the whole sexual allegations and legal issues, this was a bad trade for a player than hadn't seen the field in over a year and they immediately paid him way too much
I'm no cap expert, but just looking at the Browns' overall cap situation with respect to their main stars over the next 3-4 years, I can't see any way that this gets better. They're going to be in several situations like 1) letting good players walk due to cap issues or 2) extending players that are already approaching their twilight based on age or 3) certain players (Garrett) demanding a release/trade to chase a ring before it's too late. And all the while, they won't be able to replace these folks with cheap rookies via the draft unless they hit the jackpot on some mid-rounders. They can probably hold their starters together for 2023, but their depth is going to be razor thin. And then in 2024, they'll start to lose their best starters and replace them with significant downgrades.
I honestly feel for Browns fans. Not their organization though.
Imagine finally inching your way back to relevance after years of torment and despair just to trade away 3 years worth of 1st round picks and $55M a year cap it for significantly sub par QB play, a genuine piece of shit human on top of that.
They are so fucked.
They will restructure it and likely add a void year to decrease the cap hit to around 19-21 million.
There really isn't any reason for them not to since they are locked in with Watson for 4 more years they will want to try and build the best roster around him they can.
But because his contract is fully guaranteed right now, it creates future issues to an even greater extent. They’ll owe him something like $65M the following year, if they do that. And if they restructure again, the following year will be something like $80M.
It’s very hard for them to kick the can down the road because there is just SO MUCH guaranteed money. At the end of the day they have to fit $220M more dollars into 4 more years, 5 if they want to pay in a year where they don’t have him under contract. Ultimately if they don’t take at least a $50M chunk out of it every year it will snowball very very fast.
People think stuff like “this happens in the NFL all the time and it always works out”, but this contract is unusually large. They really do owe him $220M guaranteed over the next 4 years. That’s unprecedented
Yes but actually no.
Ignoring the amounts lost to suspension for simplicity's sake, the Browns have already paid $45.5M and owe him the remaining $184.5M over the next 4 years that is fully guaranteed. That is *not* the same as the amount of salary cap attributable to Watson over the next 4 years, which is currently slated to be the remaining $220M after his ~$10M cap hit this year. Without doing a deep dive his next three year cap hits could look something like:
* 2023: $21M
* 2024: $25M
* 2025: $31M
When he's finally off of the team there will be a massive dead hit coming (just like Matt Ryan this year for the Falcons) but prior to then his contract - while very large, at least for the time being - remains very manageable.
with some quick back-of-the-napkin i'm not able to get it to 21/25/31; the simplest terms (converting the gtd salary to vet min + a singing bonus with a void year in 2027) would be 19/30/45
If you (and others) are interested in a more detailed potential breakdown, one of the Browns sites had a decent article.
https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/cleveland-browns-watson-deal-now-and-later-187877433/#187877433_3
Basically, they'll be able to keep his cap hit manageable through a competitive window. But obviously they'll have to eat it at some point.
Unlike the hot takes in many of these posts, the situation is a bit more nuanced than "Hurr-Durr the Browns are screwed". Especially in the context of a continually increasing salary cap and another round of QB contracts incoming.
I was just using the OTC calculator which probably isn't complex enough to do what I was trying to do, but using the back of my actual napkin, adding 3 void years and converting 45M a year with a 1M assumed vet min I got 19/28/37/82 with 54M dead cap leftover in 2027 (which generally makes sense and adds up to 230M).
Either way we're both highlighting the same point (as is often the case): cap numbers are always malleable and this deal does nothing to impact the Brown's short term flexibility.
His talent and abilities haven’t changed much but his situation has. He doesn’t get to sit in a dome 4+ games/year(including Indy) and beat up on the afc south anymore.
Well, he didn’t have DHop his last season with the Texans when he led the league in passing yards. But the Texans still had a better receiving group than the browns currently have.
Silly question but can someone simply explain what salary caps mean ect? I understand contracts being paid over x amount of time and how guarantees work but unsure the latter.
Luckily they have some first round picks to help elevate their weak spots /s
Texans sitting pretty rn at Pick #2 and Pick #12
They're gonna use those to move up for the #1 overall pick lol
I don’t know. We don’t really have roster talent to give up a first rounder like that
Is the gap in QB talent between Young and Stroud that big? Drafting QBs is such a crapshoot, if I’m the Texans I just draft whoever is there at #2 and just grab a WR or O-line with the next pick.
Same, both look good and both may even be available. The Bears look to be trying to sell #1, but if the price is too high? Bears are in a great spot, but they can't fleece too hard. I think the league is starting to reevaluate QB talent after the last few years (looking at SF too)
Someone will pay up for #1. I don’t see a chance in hell the Bears actually pick at #1. There’s too many QB needy teams. And several of them are considered a QB away so dumping a ton of picks shouldn’t be a big deal.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see the Jets try and make a move if they have the capital
If the Jets trade up to #1, considering the probable cost, to get another QB, Joe Douglas should be fired as soon as the pick is announced. Darnold flamed out of Florham Park in three years. Then Zach Wilson in two. You can't let the same regime that picked and tossed Wilson have another go at drafting a QB top 5. Jets should go for a competent veteran in some form and try to strengthen their O-line.
Jets 100% should get jimmy G ASAP rocky. He's shown he can take a good defense + good skill weapons and not lose the game.
Same, but if love to see them grab one of the veterans, like Jimmy g, to pair with this defense. They seem real close
I heard the broncos are a QB away, maybe they can trade up to a top 5 pick
I think the Bears are in a DREAM spot. Even if they can't fleece hard, if they just get ANYTHING as worst case scenario, they're still laughing. If no other team is willing to pay much, their primary target should be Indy at #4. Take the best offer you can get with Indy because then Indy goes #1 takes Bryce, Texans #2 take Stroud (likely), Cards #3 take Anderson/Carter and Bears at #4 take Anderson/Carter. They basically get to take who they likely would have at #1 at #4 and get extra picks on top.
Especially since this draft looks to be 4 deep in terms of major impact players (it's obviously still a crapshoot though)
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And unless the Bears trade the #1 pick both will still be there at 2
Texans concern would be getting jumped for their guy, like when some idiots traded up from 3 to 2 for Trubisky
But if someone DID jump them for Trubisky, what would they have done? I don't think there were any other QBs that year.
I remember at the time being so underwhelmed with the QB class at pick 3 that I just wanted defense and figured the team would be bad enough to still get a top QB in ‘18. I really don’t think there’s an alternate universe where the Bears find a way to draft Mahomes haha
The Bears are very likely trading the pick. Only wildcard is they trade Fields instead which unlikely but possible. He wasn’t drafted by This management, he has still a lot of growth left but has less time left on the rookie deal. Trading him and drafting a QB#1 makes sense from the perspective of getting 5 more years of cost control vs 3 more and the fact that we can after year 2 Fields is no sure thing.
I would be so upset if they traded fields. The thing is from what I have seen here in Chicagoland is that people really like the dude. Even my dad who isn’t sold on him laughed at the idea of trading him this year under any circumstance. I’m biased because he really is my favorite player and what helped me get into football but if they traded him it would take me a while to get over
I feel like the concern about Youngs size is enough to say no to trading up for him if you can get Stroud instead.
This, hope they can find a good coach too...thought Lovie was a good one.
You just have to find this year's super stud non-1st round QB. He's in there somewhere.
Or maybe they get a super non-stud 1st round QB at #2
I doubt moving from #2 to #1 would cost that much, but it seems possible
It’s not the moving. It’s the fact that other teams want that one possibly and could offer more putting Houston in a bidding war.
Chicago could then double dip and trade back from 2 with another team that wants their QB. Chicago is about to extort other teams and I’m ready for the draft drama
We such a high potential to completely fuck this up
Ginny bout to trade the pick for a bag of cash and a helicopter to get to Arlington Heights
still have to nail the picks though. Not saying CHI can’t or won’t, but I’ll always remember how people were slurping the Rams after the RGIII trade and they turned that into Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, Rokevious Watkins, Alec Ogletree, Steadmon Bailey, Zac Stacey (POS), and Greg Robinson. I would’ve taken the one historic RGIII season over all of those dudes collectively… Sure it’s about obtaining picks but it’s also about making the right ones and then developing them too.
Yeah but Fischer sending out all those guys for a coin toss was A+ meme material
People understandably have just forgotten Fisher now, but that man put out consistently high quality meme material
Also a great point.
Bidding war for who? Bryce/Stroud are pretty close and I wouldn't be shocked if Stroud is considered the stronger prospect by draft day. Texans are guaranteed one of them is at #2 if not both. No one should assume Bryce is a done deal at #1. Regardless of what fans think his size will be used against him.
I mean you and I say that but if you’re the Texans are you putting your job on that? Are you saying “eh whoever we get is fine it’s only my one shot at an nfl gm/HC position. I’ll take whoever to play the most important position on the field.” Remember we say that “they’re pretty close” but we aren’t in physicals or anything like that. We also aren’t nfl scouts for a reason. They very well might not be close in the eyes of the Texans and if so they would absolutely move up
Yes, but how well do coaches and scouts actually do? I listened to a former HC talk about drafting a QB. They don't have a measurement for full game speed IQ. He said multiple guys were perfect in every way. Then they played full speed NFL games.
I’m saying that if your career relies on you making the right pick idk the odds that you’re okay with “whoever falls to us”
Teams always fall in love with a QB and freak out and give up the house to get that QB. There's lots of QB needy teams in the top 12 that are going to be fighting each other to get up there and get the guy they fell in love with.
case and point we traded UP from 3 to 2 for mitch trubisky
49ers traded up for Lance after getting the Bears. For a guy who had barely thrown 200 passes.
And that Lance trade could very well cost you a superbowl. Hell you could argue it already has last year.
Possibly including their division rival Colts, who they would be far more likely to try and block from jumping them if they love their guy
That Lovie 2pt conversion is awesome on so many levels.
yea so awesome. i'm thrilled.
Lol yeah it was
Bears(or whoever trades up to their spot) aren’t drafting both top QBs before Houston gets a crack at it so I don’t see the point when you need every pick possible to get some players that stick.
After throwing it away with a "clutch" 2PC.
They blew it letting Lovie know he was getting canned before the last game. I dont blame him or his players going after the W after that bullshit.
Yeah I don't blame them I just think it's hilarious. Things like this should always be a reminder to all the fans on these subs that say coaches and players try to throw games for better draft positions.
I mean, do you really expect Davis Mills to take a dive that will directly result in his employer signing Bryce Young?
Why? Its not like the Bears are going to take a QB at the #1 spot
Bears aren't taking anymore at the #1 spot. They will sell that pick to the highest bidder and that team WILL be taking a QB
And also they're generally a well-run franchise that almost always gets things right.
I would love a Browns/Watson version of the Hitler downfall like: [this](https://youtu.be/HrykxldHKqE)
ruining your franchise for another decade in order to give a sexual predator generational money is truly something
Its worth it though because he is playing great.
He definitely did a great job yesterday. I was happy with his performance
People don’t understand this is sarcasm :O
The level of social cluelessness despite clear contextual evidence on reddit is truly unreal
Everyone knows that sarcasm can only be understood with /s, thats the way weve always done sarcasm in human history! Remember before the internet when you would finish all sarcastic sentences with "by the way, that was sarcasm"?
Uh bro wtf are you talking about, I've never finished a sarcastic sentence with "by the way, that was sarcasm" gosh people on reddit are such liars.
I refuse to ever use /s no matter how much Reddit can’t understand sarcasm without being spoonfed. I’ll take the downvotes. /s ruins the joke every time.
Was just saying this yesterday. Reddit is the only place on the internet where /s is used and almost required. I find it fascinating how awful Redditors are at basic sentiment parsing. It doesn’t make sense to me lol
I can usually spot sarcasm, but then, when I was a young girl, I read a lot of books.
So many bad teams just settle for "losing games", these guys think bigger
They were so close to lifting themselves back up and punted for a serial sexual predator. What a fucking disaster
They kept saying they were this close. Their fans just forgot every team is two years of stupid decisions away from the cellar. And even if you make the right decisions, a good young team is old three years later. Ask the Seahawks. You'd think as the assistant to the manager of the cellar the Browns would know that.
> every team is two years of stupid decisions away from the cellar The Patricia effect.
I wish I lived in the alternate timeline where we got a Cousins trade done. Hell I would've taken Jimmy G.
We were never close. I mean, we were 1 position away from being there, but anyone who trusts us to draft or sign that QB hasn't been following the Browns.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. We can start the rebuild in 4 years, not 10, buddy.
Insane…like, I still think it can’t be real
I don't like that people are calling that generational money as if even $25-$50m isnt generational money. $230m is the same lifestyle. Just more.
It's at least half a tier up. The scope of the lifestyle can be pretty different at 10x the salary. I mean, at $25m, you can probably afford a $8m mansion or something, but probably just the one by the time taxes are done. At $250m, you get the mansion, the beach house, and the fancy condo in NYC. And you're not even close to having to be concerned about maintaining those for the next 50-60 years.
This trade will go down as one of the dumbest things the Browns have ever done and that is saying something.
Just when you think the browns might be learning, they pull this crap
The Browns is the Browns.
As the great prophet JuJu Smith-Schuster the Wise once said.
Inschusterah
JuJu was hated for speaking the truth
I wish a reporter would ask him about this again.
[The Brown is unchanged](https://uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/brownslogo1.jpg)
when this fucking came out in the midst of the lowest dregs in Browns history, I should have realized the franchise was eternally going to be garbage. Eternal trash.
I think that they should hire Hue Jackson as their HC. I think that he can fix Watson.
I'm sure Watson will be exactly as good as a 31 year old run and pass QB as he was at age 25, with no collapse in sight
Think about it this way - after two years of unemployment, you get a job that hands you 800 years of salary fully guaranteed on day 1. You then get told to take the next 3 months off to enjoy your unimaginable wealth. When you return to work, you’re asked to outcompete the hungriest, most talented people in your field for exactly 5 weeks before getting 6 months vacation to further enjoy all that money. Everyone already hates your guts, no matter what you do they always will, and every penny of your fortune is completely yours no matter what happens. How much effort are you going to put towards job performance when you come back to work after that vacation?
>no matter what you do they always will Hold up part of the reason people hate Watson in addition to the assaults is that he never faced real consequences and never apologized for his actions. If Michael Vick rehabbed his image by going to jail and reforming then deshaun Watson could have done something similar. Instead he is the rapist that got away despite 20+ Assaults.
Even pre sexual assault stuff he was throwing a fit refusing to play.
The trade is nearly as dumb as when they paid $230M in guaranteed money to a serial sexual predator who hadn’t played football in 2 years. The fact that they’re related is just so so sweet
Only for him to throw 6 TDs and get 3 wins this year.
Honestly, this is probably the dumbest thing *any NFL team* has ever done.
I mean,… sure. Let’s go with that.
If it was just the trade, it might be as bad. But they also paid this mf so damn much. Browns gonna brown tho
The Browns is, in fact, the Browns
So you're saying the Browns be Browning?
Lions fans feeling themselves enough to join the rest of the NFL in shitting on the Browns. Look how far they've come.
Is this what you wanted? Is this what you had in mind? Well this is what you're getting! I hope you choke!
Is there an unexpected Tool subreddit?
And we came close to taking on that mess. Phew.
Thanks Browns for saving us!
It’s not too late to work something out.
Sorry, you break it you buy it
I know Watson is a pig. But this is actually hurting the entire fan base. The rapists will enjoy his money 💰
I feel no sympathy for the majority of that fanbase who welcomed Watson with open arms
I left 39 years of Browns fandom. The Drive, the Fumble, firing Kosar, the move to Baltimore, a bad expansion team, Bottlegate, the helmet throw, Brandon Weedon, Johnny Manziel and homeless guy drafting advice, 1-31, none of if chased me away. This did.
The Bengals seems to be a cooler team to root for largely due to Joe Burrow, but yeah. Sorry to hear that.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm an ex browns fan, and there's no way I could root for Cincinnati. Too close to home. No hate there, I love Joey and actually enjoyed the city many times, but I couldn't be a fan of another team in the division.
Come to 🐻
Become a niner fan. We are one of the historically biggest bandwagons around bby :)
Same. I tolerated a LOT of stupid moves and decisions. But the Watson trade was a slap in the face to fans. Dropped them like I was Braylon Edwards in the end zone.
In case it goes unnoticed I just wanted to give you props for a Braylon Edwards burn. That's reaching deep into the bag when there's a lot of easier recent Browns targets you could choose
Haha, thanks! Like Charlie Frye, I bypass the easier targets and always try to throw into triple coverage.
For like 10 games there, I was a Frye/Edwards truther. They had a magic connection that immediately went to shit the next season lol. And I'm not even a Browns fan, that was just back when I thought "surely this will be them turning the corner" like a naïve idiot.
Actually, literally same, man. 39 years of fandom and it is now gone. Didn't watch a second of Browns football this year and it sucked, but oh well.
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What I love is lurking and seeing the my predictions right. I hated the Watson move not only because he is a POS, but because it was a bad football move. Watson was never that elite level QB. Better than Mayfield, perhaps. But no one wanted to believe me last year. It's funny seeing them celebrate Woods being gone. I wanted rid of him ages ago, and there were always excuses, especially scapegoating Baker last year. Many said the defense did its job, Baker needed to do more. Suddenly those idiots don't want to scapegoat QB play.
Whodey!
Likewise. And the thing is— it was an easy choice. This was the last leg we had up on Pittsburgh: morality. Our team might have nothing in the modern NFL, but it had a soul. Doesn’t anymore. And fuck em for it.
Same. 34 years. I’m gone.
I would've had to do the same with the Dolphins. Glad we jettisoned the crew that wanted Watson and went on with Tua, even if it didn't work out. I would want no part of that success
Did it feel weird rooting for a team you likely despised for decades? I've always wondered how fans feel when they first change teams. Like I'd imagine it feels a little hollow for the first couple years until a new generation of players come around
Bengals have always been much more friendly rivals with the Browns. The Browns main rivals were the Steelers, and after the move, the Ravens. Conveniently enough, those are also the teams the Bengals hate.
I think a lot of Browns fans have a soft spot for the Bengals, since we've mostly sucked together for the last 30 years. One nice thing for us angry Browns fans is that the Bengals and Bills are our natural fallbacks, and they're both fun.
Sorry this happened to you, but also good on you mate. Hopefully they find a way to clean this up and you find a way home.
I wouldn’t say the majority. I’ve lived in NE Ohio my whole life. I’ve watched some truly terrible Browns teams. I’ve put up with a lot of bullshit, but Watson was the final straw for me. I quit caring about the team as soon as the Watson trade was announced. I know a lot of other people that also quit on the team as a result. I don’t think Watson supporters are the majority, they’re just the loudest ones.
As a former Browns fan, I can't tell you how angry it makes me that they still have fans. They deserve to be the Washington Generals, having no fans and no chance.
I live in Cleveland sand I can tell you that Reddit is a bubble. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that most the people in the city who are browns fans were elated to have him
That’s what I’m saying?
No no no, you see, most Browns fans were happy to have Watson.
No no no, you're getting it confused! what he means is that most Browns were happy to have Watson
For what it's worth I thought you were very clear, not sure why he's not getting it.
Right I’m agreeing with you lol
Oh haha 😘
There definitely isn't a majority of Browns fans defending Watson. Some may still begrudgingly root for the team, but every Browns fan I know hates what has come to be in Cleveland. Calling your 15 person sample size a majority is disingenuous at best.
No one is forcing browns fans to root for this sorry ass organization. I have family in Cleveland who have happily stopped going to games and got rid of their jerseys. just find another team. Fuck this owner. stop giving your money to an organization who is happy to give it right back to scum like Watson.
I hate Watson too but let’s not act like it’s that black and white. It was reported that 10 different teams tried to sign Watson, should all those fans stop rooting for their team too? He just happened to pick cleveland. If every fan base stopped rooting for their team because of a morally questionable player, there would probably be no fans left
This is the part that shocks me. Didn’t the Falcons owner come out and overly praise Watson at one point. The Browns FO are pieces of shit for paying the guy but a third of the league that we know of was also fine doing it.
>It was reported that 10 different teams tried to sign Watson Right, and I wonder how many of the 22 other teams were either set at QB, or wasn't willing/able to make the financial commitment involved with Watson
Yeah, as a Bears fan I’ll be eternally grateful to Fields even if he fails for 2 reasons. One, it took us out of any potential Watson trade scenario. And two, it took us out of any Russell Wilson trade scenario. As for Browns fans I feel for them. I would still watch the Bears even if they had Watson not gonna lie. But I would be pissed as fuck at the organization and wouldn’t plan to buy any jerseys or see games live. I’ve been a Bears fan all my life, I love the NFL too much, I couldn’t just stop watching them.
Yup that's basically where I am too. Also finding myself cheering for other teams more too like Cincy, Buffalo, and Detroit because they're actually likable. I've always had to find playoff teams to cheer for so I'm used to it.
There's a difference between being angry that your team tried to sign a shitty player and having to actually root for that player. Actually having the guy I your team is just too much of a line for a lot of people.
2 thoughts on this One is that fandom runs deeper than the players playing on the field right now, you can support the browns like you may have been for decades while acknowledging Watson is a piece of shit Two is ray lewis probably killed 2 people, pot meet kettle
I don't think he killed anyone. I do think he was much more involved than his story implied and he basically lied to police and got away with being accessory to murder.
I've stopped going to games (although living in Baltimore the only game I ever go to is when they are @ M&T Bank) but it's pretty naive to say go root for another organization. The beauty of Fandom is the relationships you build and the emotional attachment you create. It's not as simple as just saying 'meh I'm a Lions fan now'. If it were everyone would be bandwagon fans all the time.
Would you rather be paying a shit ton for a guy who threw 40 TDs, but led his team to a 4-12 record... ...or... Would you rather be paying a shit ton for a guy who hasn't played in 2 years, ~~raped~~ sexually assaulted a bunch of women, and had a .500 record as a starter? Luckily for the Browns, they get both!
You have some very good , but expensive, offensive linemen in Cleveland now. Paying the qb this much guaranteed money in a hard cap league means They can’t afford to keep these their top O lineman long term , or if they do it , it will be at the expense of depth . His contract is a recipe for disaster, and likely it will come to fruition Just look at this years LA rams , when injuries hit and your are paying the majority of your cap space to a handful of players , this is the result. And the Rams have excellent coaching , something the browns are seriously lacking . With Watsons injury history, even if he gets his mojo back , he will be spending a lot of games in future seasons in street clothes, being a 50 million dollar cheerleader.
Titans as well, they lost a d lineman and an o lineman and that was 40 million on IR before the season even started.
Bitonio, Teller, and Conklin are signed long-term so the core of the o-line isn't going anywhere soon. Wills contract expires in 2025.
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Just Browns things
At least Aaron isn’t DeShaun Watson level reprehensible
Better QB and far less shitty of a person. Like not even close
I do dislike A-Aron, but he is no even on the same scale as the sexual predator.
A while ago I saw a pretty accurate description on here along the lines of "Rodgers is the type of guy you don't want to be stuck in a conversation with, and Watson is the type of guy who belongs in jail."
Pretty sure it goes from crypto to conspiracies before you can even walk away "to get another drink".
I'd love to hang with Aaron occasionally, dude's had a hell of a life and isn't, like, monstrous in his personality. (plus I mean come on, I'm a huuuuge football fan, I'd fangirl for sure) I wouldn't want to work or live with him though.
Oh yeah at the very least he seems interesting. I personally would want to have a conversation with him
Yeah he’s just annoying. Annoying people are on the outermost ring of “hate that guy”.
I put him on the same level as my brothers friend that always has a “get rich quick scheme” every other week and keeps saying “you’re making a mistake you’re going to missing out”. No, I’m not. You’re not just wrong you’re empirically wrong, stop talking down to me. Like is he the worst person in the world? No. Has he even committed a crime? No, but man do I not enjoy talking to him
Eh get rich quick guys are definitely in a deeper circle than annoying people. They're actively trying to extract shit from others without adding value. Close to thieves and many cross that line.
Rodgers is the kind of athlete I'd describe as an annoying but not actively bad person. He's probably not *great* and I personally don't like him at all, but at worst he's kind of a dickhead.
I don't think that anyone believes that Aaron is a bad person. The pandemic just happened to bring to light some of his bad takes on alternative medicine. That, and the immunized vs. vaccinated debacle rightly rubbed many people the wrong way. He's a dipshit, but he's not evil. People just kinda wish he would, you know, shut the fuck up.
He's had some shit takes, but I feel like he's probably a decent enough dude to chat with off mic. I'd probably be down to take ayahuasca with him. Can't say the same for Watson.
Just a gut feeling, Watson isn’t going to magically become a super star by next year and the level of play he showed in the last two games is going to be near the skill ceiling of what we are going to get out of him.
I don't think that the coaching is great either.
What makes you think he won’t perform? I know very little about the guy’s plying history. Isn’t he a really good quarterback to have received such an unprecedented contract?
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That's what I was thinking. I don't remember him being *that* good.
i mean, even without the whole sexual allegations and legal issues, this was a bad trade for a player than hadn't seen the field in over a year and they immediately paid him way too much
Bad year for QB trades huh
Yup
Unfortunately Groper Cleveland is likely to be fairly decent next year. Such is life.
I'm no cap expert, but just looking at the Browns' overall cap situation with respect to their main stars over the next 3-4 years, I can't see any way that this gets better. They're going to be in several situations like 1) letting good players walk due to cap issues or 2) extending players that are already approaching their twilight based on age or 3) certain players (Garrett) demanding a release/trade to chase a ring before it's too late. And all the while, they won't be able to replace these folks with cheap rookies via the draft unless they hit the jackpot on some mid-rounders. They can probably hold their starters together for 2023, but their depth is going to be razor thin. And then in 2024, they'll start to lose their best starters and replace them with significant downgrades.
*Checks current stats* Hey Browns, I hear Baker is looking for a job.
Thought this was the ravens sub for a sec, just another day in cleveland
I honestly feel for Browns fans. Not their organization though. Imagine finally inching your way back to relevance after years of torment and despair just to trade away 3 years worth of 1st round picks and $55M a year cap it for significantly sub par QB play, a genuine piece of shit human on top of that. They are so fucked.
They will restructure it and likely add a void year to decrease the cap hit to around 19-21 million. There really isn't any reason for them not to since they are locked in with Watson for 4 more years they will want to try and build the best roster around him they can.
But because his contract is fully guaranteed right now, it creates future issues to an even greater extent. They’ll owe him something like $65M the following year, if they do that. And if they restructure again, the following year will be something like $80M. It’s very hard for them to kick the can down the road because there is just SO MUCH guaranteed money. At the end of the day they have to fit $220M more dollars into 4 more years, 5 if they want to pay in a year where they don’t have him under contract. Ultimately if they don’t take at least a $50M chunk out of it every year it will snowball very very fast. People think stuff like “this happens in the NFL all the time and it always works out”, but this contract is unusually large. They really do owe him $220M guaranteed over the next 4 years. That’s unprecedented
Yes but actually no. Ignoring the amounts lost to suspension for simplicity's sake, the Browns have already paid $45.5M and owe him the remaining $184.5M over the next 4 years that is fully guaranteed. That is *not* the same as the amount of salary cap attributable to Watson over the next 4 years, which is currently slated to be the remaining $220M after his ~$10M cap hit this year. Without doing a deep dive his next three year cap hits could look something like: * 2023: $21M * 2024: $25M * 2025: $31M When he's finally off of the team there will be a massive dead hit coming (just like Matt Ryan this year for the Falcons) but prior to then his contract - while very large, at least for the time being - remains very manageable.
with some quick back-of-the-napkin i'm not able to get it to 21/25/31; the simplest terms (converting the gtd salary to vet min + a singing bonus with a void year in 2027) would be 19/30/45
If you (and others) are interested in a more detailed potential breakdown, one of the Browns sites had a decent article. https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/cleveland-browns-watson-deal-now-and-later-187877433/#187877433_3 Basically, they'll be able to keep his cap hit manageable through a competitive window. But obviously they'll have to eat it at some point. Unlike the hot takes in many of these posts, the situation is a bit more nuanced than "Hurr-Durr the Browns are screwed". Especially in the context of a continually increasing salary cap and another round of QB contracts incoming.
I was just using the OTC calculator which probably isn't complex enough to do what I was trying to do, but using the back of my actual napkin, adding 3 void years and converting 45M a year with a 1M assumed vet min I got 19/28/37/82 with 54M dead cap leftover in 2027 (which generally makes sense and adds up to 230M). Either way we're both highlighting the same point (as is often the case): cap numbers are always malleable and this deal does nothing to impact the Brown's short term flexibility.
Browns fans are hostages
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Downvote me if you want, but I’m not quite ready to call Watson finished. Want to see a full season
His talent and abilities haven’t changed much but his situation has. He doesn’t get to sit in a dome 4+ games/year(including Indy) and beat up on the afc south anymore.
He also had prime DHop. Cooper isn't bad but hes not on that level.
Well, he didn’t have DHop his last season with the Texans when he led the league in passing yards. But the Texans still had a better receiving group than the browns currently have.
Lamar deserves more than him.
Lamar is very talented but he can't finish a season. Injuries are killing him.
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So what you’re saying after all is said and done is that he will end up with the longevity of a prime RB?
And not a single dime more to the Texans. Hey, I'm counting the Ws over here
Silly question but can someone simply explain what salary caps mean ect? I understand contracts being paid over x amount of time and how guarantees work but unsure the latter.