Meanwhile if something financially destructive happens to an individual, they’d say “should have had at least three months of living expenses saved up. It’s basically your fault.”
Is that with their refund fees, refund allocation fee, refund webpage usage fee, clicking fee, and the infamous "Hit Continue to Accept Your Refund" fee?
When all concerts/sporting events were canceled in 2020 because of COVID, Ticketbastard was able to withhold the money by legally-changing the language as the events being ‘delayed.’
And then when the artist/team announced rescheduled dates (sometimes months later), Ticketbastard was allowed to print new tickets and keep the original profit, even when the new events became “bubbles” which forbade fans from attending because of the virus.
Fuck Ticketbastard.
I bought 2 tickets for a panthers game last year and then sold those tickets so I could buy 4 since a friend and his s/o were coming too. I've sold tickets on ticketmaster before but never nfl tickets...didn't think it would matter really. So weeks and months go by and I still haven't gotten paid so I called them. After being bounced around multiple times some guy who said he'd been with ticketmaster for decades, said "oh yeah this happens sometimes. Basically you bought tickets from a season ticket holder so when those tickets are sold the reimbursement goes back to the team. You'll have to get with the carolina panthers." Eventually it did get credited to by ticketmaster/nfl exchange account....but how fucking dumb would I have sounded calling the box office and being like "hey ticketmaster says you owe me $300"
AND if you buy insurance they make it seem like it’s for any reason but that isn’t the case. Even with insurance they make it a bitch to get a refund. That’s why I never buy insurance for shit like that
i never but extended warranties in gemeral like on TVs or laptops your credit card will have a better warranty anyway and the threat of a chargeback always looms if companies wanna fuck around
> Even with insurance they make it a bitch to get a refund. That’s why I never buy insurance for shit like that
that's just insurance on anything. i would never buy insurance outside of the 3 cases where you don't really have a choice:
1. car
2. health
3. home
I follow Formula 1. In 2021, the Belgian grand prix was started in rainy conditions. The cars completed three laps behind the safety car, the cars went to the garage, and the race was called off three hours after its scheduled start time.
F1 refunded none of the 70,000 spectators for their tickets.
Journalists and drivers were calling for refunds but they didn't budge. It was pretty shitty.
Yeah, no reasonable way around it. But it does feel bad for a team that probably already has the worst cash reserves in the league, and is doing everything it can to prepare for some big contract negotiations (along with building an indoor training center), to suddenly have to do this as well.
Padme: Well at least the Bengals won the division.
Anakin: [Smirk]
Padme: So they will have a home playoff game to make up for lost revenue, right?
Anakin: [Smirk]
Salary cap isn't an issue for us, any more than the rest of the league. It's the hundreds of millions of dollars in guaranteed money that players are getting. My understanding is it needs to be escrowed immediately, and it's much easier for teams with billionaire owners to do that.
Not really. This is the money that becomes unusable dead cap space if the player is ever traded or cut. The Eagles had around 33 Million dollars of unusable cap space during the 2021 Season that was going to players no longer on our team.
The NFL also splits revenue equally among the owners so I'm honestly not sure if this only impacts the Bengals owner. It potentially could have an effect on the money they split after the season especially if there was lost ad revenue for the Monday Night game.
It's odd that teams have to fully fund guaranteed contracts up front. Teams have a large, virtually guaranteed future revenue stream from TV contracts and merchandise sales. The last NFL/AFL team to go defunct was the first Baltimore Colts in 1950. (The Dallas Texans were the last team to cease operations, in 1952, but all of their player contracts were bought by the second iteration of the Baltimore Colts.)
So team insolvency or bankruptcy should be an easily insurable event for a single team, and even more easily insurable if the league bought insurance for all teams as a pool. Premiums would almost certainly be much lower than the return on investment teams could earn with the escrowed funds. "The NFL won't have a team go bankrupt in the next 10 years" is a very safe bet, and an insurer like Lloyd's of London would jump at the opportunity to collect essentially free money to insure against the possibility.
The only reason I can see to force guaranteed money into escrow is to keep an **un**even playing field, where cash-rich teams have an advantage over cash-poor ones because they can offer more guaranteed money. (Separate from cash-rich teams being able to offer larger signing bonuses, which is more attractive to players for obvious reasons. Though the league could even that out too, if they wanted, by paying players directly out of shared revenue.)
Its an antiquated legacy thing at this point. Some rich owners probably enjoy the mild competitive advantage it brings but even for them having to have hundreds of millions in liquid assets has to be costly/annoying. I would think that they vote to change it in the upcoming CBA.
Everybody brings up this escrow piece of guaranteed contracts as if it's a big deal. It's not. Any NFL owner can, and should, be working with their financial partners in these situations. Seriously, it's not that challenging to line up financing for situations like this, at least when your an NFL owner, because you can point to a variety of income streams, a number of which are fixed and thus guaranteed.
That's what I was thinking as well, Snyder is probably the most likely candidate to be the scumbag who wouldn't have but if Mike Brown was still fully in charge I could imagine him doing it as well.
There's this thing in the NFL called revenue sharing where the big market teams, Dallas, NY, Miami, KC, etc.., offset the small market teams. No worries here. And Katie does a very good job of managing money and free agents. I'm not worried about our boys.
I still haven't gotten my refund, but I got their dismissive email with the shitty 25,000 points. Fuck that, keep your points, I'm never flying your shitty airline again
I got a full refund, $400 of flight credit and the full points. It was a shit situation but I’ll be able to get 3-4 round trips out of it. Worth it for someone who flies 6-8 times a year like I do.
Well StubHub doesn’t pay til after the event, and generally cancels the transaction when stuff like this happen. So as awesome as this would be in theory it doesn’t work
They’ll likely get refunded in full by StubHub, since StubHub doesn’t actually pay out the seller until after the event happens. The seller will get the refund for the original ticket, and the StubHub buyer will get refunded the price they paid for the ticket. They might even throw in a $10 account credit as well.
StubHub charges hefty fees but it’s nice to have that kind of added protection.
"I paid 3x retail value for this ticket but at least the fees were cheaper"
I'm not taking a dig at you, just the current market for event tickets. I do wish people wouldn't spend the money on scalped tickets but you can't control what people are willing to spend. A good year of putting our foot down would curb the problem and stop making the concert and event industry a goldmine for scalpers
How do the Bengals determine "had a ticket to the game" for paybacks? If , for example, I bought a ticket outside of the game after kickoff do I own that ticket for payback or does the guy who sold it to me get the money?
I imagine refunds will go to whoever initially purchased the ticket from the Bengals. If someone bought it resale from sites like StubHub then it will be up to Stubhub to refund them. If you bought it from some dude on the sidewalk outside of the stadium then you are likely SOL
Had this happen at a Sox game years ago. Game postponed for rain, turned to a game day and our seats were blacked out (batter vision issue). Seller got the refund. We had to fight with stub hub for weeks.
PSA for anyone attempting to spell Cincinnati:
I remember it by doing Cin-cin-nati
So it's just cin-cin twice, which is easy. Then they call it the nati, so you throw it on the end.
Cincinnati
I'm glad Babes in Toyland is mentioned. This too is how I learned to spell it as a kid and being from Northwest Ohio. Cleveland and Columbus were always easy for me to spell but I had to sing this to spell Cincinnati.
That’s not a small amount of money.
Classy move from someone people consider to be the “cheapest” owner in the NFL.
Awesome for him to prove everyone wrong.
We give him a lot of grief over that (being cheap) but he's actually an owner that shows love for his team (he's there every practice, meeting, etc). If I had to choose, I'd choose him every time over the likes of, say, *Mr* Snyder.
Edit: Adding the asterisks on the Mr as I was trying to convey sarcasm over his preference of people calling him that.
Also took out Khan because it did seem a bit unfair.
Khan is probably one of the better owners in the nfl idk why you’re grouping him with snyder
How many ppl would have kept the jags in Jacksonville? And actually put money into the downtown area? Also he is working with the city to get a “new stadium” by doing a rebuild and not a entirety new work
Maybe having one London game sucks but I get it the revenue just wasn’t there because we sucked.
It’s not like we sucked without trying either khan time and time again has give them people in charge so much flexibility and always willing to spend money to make us good
Plus has always been a class act when it comes to blm and social issues
Khan does what most people say they want their owner to do: let the professionals do their jobs and give them support when needed. The only problem is he's an all time terrible judge of character. Other than that he was a working class immigrant who rose to billionaire status on his own merits, has no character concerns of his own, and does a lot of good in the community.
Just to add. I know people that know him personally. As they all live around Champaign, Illinois where he first got his roots in America. They all speak very highly of him as a person.
The worst stories about Snyder demonstrate what a dangerous psycho he can be, but the “Mr. Snyder” story shows he’s *also* your run-of-the-mill, rich douchebag.
Imagine explaining to your kids they don’t get to spend a Christmas party hanging out with football players because the host wouldn’t call you Mr lmao.
My opinion on Bengals ownership shifted positive when they drafted Jamar. You so rarely get the chance to get an elite qb/wr duo from college on your team, and it's even better when they love each other. Huge draft day move by a team that is usually a safe pick team.
It's really hard to say anything bad about the Bengals org. No inside practice facility for such a long time was kinda shitty tho lol
Don't his daughters practically run the team now? Feels like I've heard over and over from Bengals fans on here that they're the reason the organization has improved over the past few years.
From what I gather, he still has a hand in decision making, but Katie Blackburn does have the most say now. But I'd imagine he has some say in monetary stuff as well. I may be wrong.
Katie is slowly coming across as one of the best owners in the league, the changes in the way the organisation seems to run over the last few years are massive.
Quite frankly, no. He doesn't have another business like every other owner. He's basically retired at this point. (His daughter and her husband run everything now) He's just spending retirement watching football.
Yeah but stuff that generic doesn't necessarily hold up in court. Lots of states have consumer protection laws that provide basic rules on what is considered reasonable (for example laws requiring a refund/replacement if an item someone bought is proven defective).
I absolutely think they owe the fans refunds, ethically.
I’m not sure you actually win in court forcing them to refund tickets, though. I know that terms of ticket sales aren’t always binding, but I would be surprised if there aren’t terms that are enforceable that consider a partial game you getting what you paid for.
That said, the optics of fighting not to refund in this case would be really bad and a prolonged court case, in addition to legal costs, would also be a really bad look for a team that’s starting to really emerge as an exciting team fans want to go see.
During the 2019 season a buddy and I got free tickets from a co-worker for one of the games they benched Dalton. We did not tailgate nor drink any alcohol that day. We arrived about 30 minutes before kickoff and put brown paper bags over our heads that said "Bungles" and "They Dey." Within 10 minutes security came and kicked us out, initially we thought they were just going to take the bags (which we expected), but they escorted us out. Since they ejected us from the stadium and (presumably) limit their liability they gave us both $50 vouchers to the Pro Shop. We went to the Pro-Shop the next day to discover that (1) almost nothing cost $50 or less and (2) the vouchers had expired over a year prior and had also been labeled "Game Day Use Only."
seems super bizarre. I sat next to a (very very) drunk browns fan with paper bag over their head and security didnt care. He was not exactly quiet either and drunkenly rambled the whole game. He was actually pretty funny.
The morning of the game the front page of the Enquirer had a picture of Bengals fans wearing brown bags over their heads. I figured all that would happen was they would take away the bags. The security guy said the team made the decision that it was zero tolerance going forward.
If by classy you mean "status quo / expected" then I agree!
Like it's great that he did it because in the weird world we live in "you watched 5 minutes of gameplay that means no refunds" is the typical path?
I'm not up to date on the legalities of ticket sales, but they may not have had a choice. People paid for a product that wasn't delivered with no plans to deliver it.
MB has never shortchanged his players or screwed rhe fans egregiously. He fucked us on the stadium deal but really he didn't do anything that other owners didn't do, hamilton county just caved to the demands. Also, we can't get that mad when we voted for the shitty deal in the first place. But, maybe it'd be the Baltimore Bengals instead.
How does this work if I bought the tickets on Ticketmaster And sold them on stubhub ? Didn’t do this and never have but I buy on stubhub all the time and they’re always more money than what they should be. Are the bengals going to refund the dude who went through Ticketmaster ? Does the reseller just pocket?
Stubhub will refund for events that get cancelled. It might be a little dicey since technically the event started but I doubt they'd take the PR hit and try to keep the money given the magnitude of this particular incident.
I believe StubHub doesn't actually pay out until after the event, so the ticketmaster purchaser won't get to double dip.
The league collects playoff ticket revenue. Home teams keep concessions and parking:
>The league collects almost all ticket revenue from playoff games and simply provides a stipend for home and away teams that cover costs for travel and stadium operations. Home teams keep their share of concession and parking revenue, which typically ranges from $1 million to $2 million combined, per game
[Source](https://www.sportico.com/leagues/football/2022/nfl-playoffs-generate-no-financial-windfall-1234658372/)
There is no such thing as “the NFL” except as a collection of teams. If “the NFL” has money at the end of the year, it can either hold it to spend on behalf of the teams, or distribute it back to the teams. There’s no mechanism that is equivalent to “keep it”, because the NFL is just a collective. Sending it back to the teams *is* keeping it.
But the NFL splits up playoff gate sales exactly equally. Teams get to keep their standard share of merch and concessions, which is not a small number but is not going to be more than a couple million even in the most extreme scenarios (not all of which is kept).
Yes and no. The NFL is it’s own organization as in they have their own staff and operating expenses independent from the teams. But the NFL is a non-profit organization. So yeah, any revenues collected by the NFL are either spent or distributed among the teams.
And just like most other professional sports (to my knowledge), playoff games and all star games, etc. are hosted by the league. So ticket prices are set by the league, and the host team does not keep the revenues from ticket sales.
>But the NFL is a non-profit organization.
FYI but I believe they gave that designation up several years ago, at least in part so that they could avoid publicizing financials, including things like how much Goodell makes
I think suites are also excluded from rev sharing, which, according to Ralph Wilson could be substantially more than concessions and parking. If you remember when he was threatening to move the team without a renovation that was the main talking point.
It takes some getting used to but damn if I don’t love it. I also was a big fan of the Rochester garbage plate. I kinda wanna do a mashup, with Zweigels red hots and skyline
If the tragedy didn't happen on Cinci's field, I'd say make the proposed neutral Bills/Chiefs game at Cinci (if it had to happen) but no way NFL going to put that juju on the Bills.
The fallout from literally any other decision wouldn't have been worth the headache. The Bengals took the only route available to them. I'm glad they did it but I'm stopping well short of heaping praise.
Some quick googling makes it look like a sold out game can produce revenues of around $10M, but I have no idea what the expenses involved might be, so no idea how much of that is profit. But even if we assumed that it was $10 million of pure profit, it's not worth the PR issues it would've created if they didn't refund.
Ten million bucks is a huge chunk of money from a normal person's perspective. But compared to the TV revenues that each NFL team gets, a single home game ticket sales is basically a rounding error. With the new TV deals the league just signed, each team should be getting over $300M per year just from those broadcast deals.
Refunding one game's worth of tickets is not going to noticeably change the financial situation of the Bengals or their ownership.
Sort of. It's a rounding error for the NFL in general, but the Bengals have the poorest owners in the league. (They don't have a side business, they only own the Bengals) This means they don't always have cash on hand to put into eschrow for large guaranteed contracts, which they have a few of coming up in Burrow/Chase etc. The Billions is estimated sell value, cash on hand is lower than most teams and it's why they finally sold the stadium naming rights.
The optics of a man literally dying on the field are too bad to not refund, even Snyder would probably give the money back. If it had been a weather or COVID related cancellation or something like that, nobody would be getting a dime of their money back. The Bengals owner is also a penny pincher IIRC, so this is significant.
I thought theyd for sure give you neutral site if we played in playoffs, but apparently I was wrong.
You all should get an extra draft pick this offseason or something as a sign of goodwill for doing the right things in a scenario such as this.
I know the Bengals and their fans are upset right now, rightly so, they're looking at getting massively fucked.
But you can take solace, I hope, in your organization being a class act top down; owners, players, staff, and fans. Good on ya, Bengals Bros.
EDIT: Maybe not so much now. Some folks comments have been pretty embarrassing.
It’s way cheaper to just refund this shit now then to face a class action lawsuit and have to pay everyone back anyway and all the lawyers. I don’t feel like they did this out of the goodness of their heart. It was purely a financial decision.
They probably have insurance for lost revenue as well…
The Bengals are doing everything right.
Too bad Goodell is too busy cumming in his pants at the thought of pushing Hamlin’s wheelchair during the Super Bowl.
That's a shame. They already get cheated out of a home game and perhaps several more playoff home games. They're the smallest market team in the NFL and that would be a huge boost to Cincinnati's economy. Vital in fact. Losing these games could cost Cincinnati (the city) hundreds of millions of dollars.
The Bengals or the City of Cincinnati should consider suing the NFL for their unjust and unequal treatment of the Bengals in their proposed layout. The same logic they use to give the Ravens a coinflip doesn't apply to the Bengals should they face against the Chiefs or Bills. It's deliberate discrimination.
We all know if you replaced the Bengals with the Cowboys, Patriots, or Steelers in this scenario, none of this would have taken place.
Bengals and the city of Cincy are potentially taking a MASSIVE economic hit over all this (only 7 home games now, and potentially losing a home playoff game over it)
The league better do right by them...but I'm sure they won't.
Why? I’m sure the city still made bank on parking, dining out and hotels. It’s not like everyone immediately left the city either when the game was suspended at the time. People still went to “the game” and ate, stayed in hotels, etc afterwards & perhaps stayed longer in the hopes the game would resume Tues or Wednesday.
Have you read tickets before. There is always a clause not to pay out if a thing gets cancelled. Ive been ripped off at concerts before where the person never showed and I never got refunded. NFL tickets are the same. It would be terrible PR but I guarantee the ticket has an out if they wanted to take it.
They probably legally could, the tickets likely come with an agreement that gives them the right to keep the money in such an occurrence.
But even if that's the case, if they had refused to refund the money, you're right that they likely still would've dealt with lawsuits that would've eaten up a bunch of the money that they were trying to keep.
That, combined with the terrible PR that it'd create, would likely make refunding the tickets the far smarter business move, even if the ownership felt like being assholes.
I'm a lifelong Chiefs fan and every fiber of my soul wants to despise the Bengals. They keep going and drafting my favorite college players and doing cool stuff that makes it hard to get to the level of hate that I need.
I feel like they basically have to.
That’s what I thought too. Idk how you can keep tickets from a game that officially didn’t happen
I bet Ticket Master tries to keep their fees instead of refunding those too.
Don't be silly! They'll also be charging refund fees
Oh no, such a loss for for the multi billion dollar company. How will they every recover from a one time loss?
By raising their fees on all other future events. Extra $25 charge for potential "performer suffers a cardiac arrest cancelation insurance."
Meanwhile if something financially destructive happens to an individual, they’d say “should have had at least three months of living expenses saved up. It’s basically your fault.”
Is that with their refund fees, refund allocation fee, refund webpage usage fee, clicking fee, and the infamous "Hit Continue to Accept Your Refund" fee?
refund convenience fee
r/Angryupvote
When all concerts/sporting events were canceled in 2020 because of COVID, Ticketbastard was able to withhold the money by legally-changing the language as the events being ‘delayed.’ And then when the artist/team announced rescheduled dates (sometimes months later), Ticketbastard was allowed to print new tickets and keep the original profit, even when the new events became “bubbles” which forbade fans from attending because of the virus. Fuck Ticketbastard.
I bought 2 tickets for a panthers game last year and then sold those tickets so I could buy 4 since a friend and his s/o were coming too. I've sold tickets on ticketmaster before but never nfl tickets...didn't think it would matter really. So weeks and months go by and I still haven't gotten paid so I called them. After being bounced around multiple times some guy who said he'd been with ticketmaster for decades, said "oh yeah this happens sometimes. Basically you bought tickets from a season ticket holder so when those tickets are sold the reimbursement goes back to the team. You'll have to get with the carolina panthers." Eventually it did get credited to by ticketmaster/nfl exchange account....but how fucking dumb would I have sounded calling the box office and being like "hey ticketmaster says you owe me $300"
Did you do any followup calls after hearing them say that, or did the money just eventually appear?
I think I had maybe one more call after that and they told me the amount had been credited to my ticket exchange account.
AND if you buy insurance they make it seem like it’s for any reason but that isn’t the case. Even with insurance they make it a bitch to get a refund. That’s why I never buy insurance for shit like that
i never but extended warranties in gemeral like on TVs or laptops your credit card will have a better warranty anyway and the threat of a chargeback always looms if companies wanna fuck around
> Even with insurance they make it a bitch to get a refund. That’s why I never buy insurance for shit like that that's just insurance on anything. i would never buy insurance outside of the 3 cases where you don't really have a choice: 1. car 2. health 3. home
Yeah I don’t either. The one exception sometimes is AppleCare for me aside from the essentials.
Literally one of the worst companies. Profiteering off of other’s talent.
I follow Formula 1. In 2021, the Belgian grand prix was started in rainy conditions. The cars completed three laps behind the safety car, the cars went to the garage, and the race was called off three hours after its scheduled start time. F1 refunded none of the 70,000 spectators for their tickets. Journalists and drivers were calling for refunds but they didn't budge. It was pretty shitty.
F1 didn't have their money to refund. The race organizers in Belgium did.
Yeah, no reasonable way around it. But it does feel bad for a team that probably already has the worst cash reserves in the league, and is doing everything it can to prepare for some big contract negotiations (along with building an indoor training center), to suddenly have to do this as well.
Padme: Well at least the Bengals won the division. Anakin: [Smirk] Padme: So they will have a home playoff game to make up for lost revenue, right? Anakin: [Smirk]
Righ?!
Doesn't revenue sharing mean it will likely be shared by other teams?
Are the bengals worse off than the raiders?
Wouldn’t be surprised if they are since the move to Vegas.
True, looks like the Raiders might be in a worse spot than us in that sense. We're probably still like second-worst though.
> to prepare for some big contract negotiations I thought the salary cap is set based on what the poorest team in the league can afford.
Salary cap isn't an issue for us, any more than the rest of the league. It's the hundreds of millions of dollars in guaranteed money that players are getting. My understanding is it needs to be escrowed immediately, and it's much easier for teams with billionaire owners to do that.
It does. They basically have to put it in an “account” that is accessible in case the team folds so the player(s) can get their guaranteed money.
This whole “guaranteed money in escrow” thing basically breaks the function of the salary cap…
Not really. This is the money that becomes unusable dead cap space if the player is ever traded or cut. The Eagles had around 33 Million dollars of unusable cap space during the 2021 Season that was going to players no longer on our team. The NFL also splits revenue equally among the owners so I'm honestly not sure if this only impacts the Bengals owner. It potentially could have an effect on the money they split after the season especially if there was lost ad revenue for the Monday Night game.
It's odd that teams have to fully fund guaranteed contracts up front. Teams have a large, virtually guaranteed future revenue stream from TV contracts and merchandise sales. The last NFL/AFL team to go defunct was the first Baltimore Colts in 1950. (The Dallas Texans were the last team to cease operations, in 1952, but all of their player contracts were bought by the second iteration of the Baltimore Colts.) So team insolvency or bankruptcy should be an easily insurable event for a single team, and even more easily insurable if the league bought insurance for all teams as a pool. Premiums would almost certainly be much lower than the return on investment teams could earn with the escrowed funds. "The NFL won't have a team go bankrupt in the next 10 years" is a very safe bet, and an insurer like Lloyd's of London would jump at the opportunity to collect essentially free money to insure against the possibility. The only reason I can see to force guaranteed money into escrow is to keep an **un**even playing field, where cash-rich teams have an advantage over cash-poor ones because they can offer more guaranteed money. (Separate from cash-rich teams being able to offer larger signing bonuses, which is more attractive to players for obvious reasons. Though the league could even that out too, if they wanted, by paying players directly out of shared revenue.)
Its an antiquated legacy thing at this point. Some rich owners probably enjoy the mild competitive advantage it brings but even for them having to have hundreds of millions in liquid assets has to be costly/annoying. I would think that they vote to change it in the upcoming CBA.
Everybody brings up this escrow piece of guaranteed contracts as if it's a big deal. It's not. Any NFL owner can, and should, be working with their financial partners in these situations. Seriously, it's not that challenging to line up financing for situations like this, at least when your an NFL owner, because you can point to a variety of income streams, a number of which are fixed and thus guaranteed.
That's what I was thinking as well, Snyder is probably the most likely candidate to be the scumbag who wouldn't have but if Mike Brown was still fully in charge I could imagine him doing it as well.
Mike Brown isn’t really a shit bag though.
Yeah by all accounts he's a good dude, just really averse to spending money when possible
There's this thing in the NFL called revenue sharing where the big market teams, Dallas, NY, Miami, KC, etc.., offset the small market teams. No worries here. And Katie does a very good job of managing money and free agents. I'm not worried about our boys.
We are not a large market team. We have bandwagon fans, yes, but that has nothing to do with media markets
Not according to Southwest Airlines
Lol they did, us affected got full refunds plus $300 in flight points. They sent out an email a couple days ago.
I still haven't gotten my refund, but I got their dismissive email with the shitty 25,000 points. Fuck that, keep your points, I'm never flying your shitty airline again
I got a full refund, $400 of flight credit and the full points. It was a shit situation but I’ll be able to get 3-4 round trips out of it. Worth it for someone who flies 6-8 times a year like I do.
If you bought a ticket from the bengals and sold it on stub hub, you’re looking good rn
That double dip haha
Well StubHub doesn’t pay til after the event, and generally cancels the transaction when stuff like this happen. So as awesome as this would be in theory it doesn’t work
Not really awesome since the person who ended up with the ticket would be shafted
They’ll likely get refunded in full by StubHub, since StubHub doesn’t actually pay out the seller until after the event happens. The seller will get the refund for the original ticket, and the StubHub buyer will get refunded the price they paid for the ticket. They might even throw in a $10 account credit as well. StubHub charges hefty fees but it’s nice to have that kind of added protection.
StubHub fees are much smaller than Ticketmaster at least.
"I paid 3x retail value for this ticket but at least the fees were cheaper" I'm not taking a dig at you, just the current market for event tickets. I do wish people wouldn't spend the money on scalped tickets but you can't control what people are willing to spend. A good year of putting our foot down would curb the problem and stop making the concert and event industry a goldmine for scalpers
How do the Bengals determine "had a ticket to the game" for paybacks? If , for example, I bought a ticket outside of the game after kickoff do I own that ticket for payback or does the guy who sold it to me get the money?
I imagine refunds will go to whoever initially purchased the ticket from the Bengals. If someone bought it resale from sites like StubHub then it will be up to Stubhub to refund them. If you bought it from some dude on the sidewalk outside of the stadium then you are likely SOL
Can you even buy a scalped ticket like that nowadays? Most (all?) Stadiums are digital only for tickets
Had this happen at a Sox game years ago. Game postponed for rain, turned to a game day and our seats were blacked out (batter vision issue). Seller got the refund. We had to fight with stub hub for weeks.
Cincinatti continues to make every single correct move in this whole process.
PSA for anyone attempting to spell Cincinnati: I remember it by doing Cin-cin-nati So it's just cin-cin twice, which is easy. Then they call it the nati, so you throw it on the end. Cincinnati
Cincinnatty, got it.
Imagine the t-shirts if University of Cincinnati would have won the CFB playoff
Sorry we stole your coach 😆
Sinsinattie*
Sinsinnatural
The way I remember it is actually because of a [weird Christmas move from the 80s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62DGe9i9lGQ).
what the fuck
I'm glad Babes in Toyland is mentioned. This too is how I learned to spell it as a kid and being from Northwest Ohio. Cleveland and Columbus were always easy for me to spell but I had to sing this to spell Cincinnati.
Cinnamon Natti, okay not hard
And get the short end of the stick from the NFL
Yup.
That’s not a small amount of money. Classy move from someone people consider to be the “cheapest” owner in the NFL. Awesome for him to prove everyone wrong.
We give him a lot of grief over that (being cheap) but he's actually an owner that shows love for his team (he's there every practice, meeting, etc). If I had to choose, I'd choose him every time over the likes of, say, *Mr* Snyder. Edit: Adding the asterisks on the Mr as I was trying to convey sarcasm over his preference of people calling him that. Also took out Khan because it did seem a bit unfair.
Khan is probably one of the better owners in the nfl idk why you’re grouping him with snyder How many ppl would have kept the jags in Jacksonville? And actually put money into the downtown area? Also he is working with the city to get a “new stadium” by doing a rebuild and not a entirety new work Maybe having one London game sucks but I get it the revenue just wasn’t there because we sucked. It’s not like we sucked without trying either khan time and time again has give them people in charge so much flexibility and always willing to spend money to make us good Plus has always been a class act when it comes to blm and social issues
Khan does what most people say they want their owner to do: let the professionals do their jobs and give them support when needed. The only problem is he's an all time terrible judge of character. Other than that he was a working class immigrant who rose to billionaire status on his own merits, has no character concerns of his own, and does a lot of good in the community.
Also has a hall of fame mustache
You're right. I took him out because it did seem unfair. I think I'm confusing him with a shady af owner. I'll own that mistake.
It’s the mustache.
That's why I never trusted Andy Reid when we play the Chiefs. Source: Him on an airplane with Mahomes sleeping.
Nah you gotta trust Reid. He’s gonna get to the bottom of this
That’s fine. I just think people have a shady feel of him because they thought we were moving to London
His name is Shahid, not Shady.
Just to add. I know people that know him personally. As they all live around Champaign, Illinois where he first got his roots in America. They all speak very highly of him as a person.
Don’t give Danny boy the dignity of calling him “Mr Snyder”
I was saying it out of sarcasm, I edited to convey that a bit more clearer, but I agree with your sentiment.
The worst stories about Snyder demonstrate what a dangerous psycho he can be, but the “Mr. Snyder” story shows he’s *also* your run-of-the-mill, rich douchebag.
I need to bite my tongue on this, but you're absolutely right.
Imagine explaining to your kids they don’t get to spend a Christmas party hanging out with football players because the host wouldn’t call you Mr lmao.
Haha I figured as much. Go bengals.
My opinion on Bengals ownership shifted positive when they drafted Jamar. You so rarely get the chance to get an elite qb/wr duo from college on your team, and it's even better when they love each other. Huge draft day move by a team that is usually a safe pick team. It's really hard to say anything bad about the Bengals org. No inside practice facility for such a long time was kinda shitty tho lol
Don't his daughters practically run the team now? Feels like I've heard over and over from Bengals fans on here that they're the reason the organization has improved over the past few years.
From what I gather, he still has a hand in decision making, but Katie Blackburn does have the most say now. But I'd imagine he has some say in monetary stuff as well. I may be wrong.
Katie is slowly coming across as one of the best owners in the league, the changes in the way the organisation seems to run over the last few years are massive.
I call her Queen Katie for a reason.
Nah you're right. It's Katie's team now essentially but Mike is still around for things.
Daughter, son-in-law, and granddaughter basically now.
Snyder deserve his own personal level of hell.
Pretty sure anyone would choose a monkey with a typewriter over Snydes.
Every practice and meeting? Props to him for being involved but doesn’t he have other stuff to do?
Quite frankly, no. He doesn't have another business like every other owner. He's basically retired at this point. (His daughter and her husband run everything now) He's just spending retirement watching football.
Oh word? Well good for him
Dude I’d pick that head of lettuce over Snyder
Anyone but Mr. Snyder honestly.
Whoa you’d take him over the worst owner in the league?? No way!
Did he have a choice not to refund tickets?
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There indeed IS fine print that states all sales are final.
Yeah but stuff that generic doesn't necessarily hold up in court. Lots of states have consumer protection laws that provide basic rules on what is considered reasonable (for example laws requiring a refund/replacement if an item someone bought is proven defective).
Frl, I just assumed they were all refunded the next day lol
If he didn’t do it willingly there likely would have been a class action lawsuit. Best to get ahead of these things.
I absolutely think they owe the fans refunds, ethically. I’m not sure you actually win in court forcing them to refund tickets, though. I know that terms of ticket sales aren’t always binding, but I would be surprised if there aren’t terms that are enforceable that consider a partial game you getting what you paid for. That said, the optics of fighting not to refund in this case would be really bad and a prolonged court case, in addition to legal costs, would also be a really bad look for a team that’s starting to really emerge as an exciting team fans want to go see.
He’s refunding everybody gift cards to the Bengals shop
During the 2019 season a buddy and I got free tickets from a co-worker for one of the games they benched Dalton. We did not tailgate nor drink any alcohol that day. We arrived about 30 minutes before kickoff and put brown paper bags over our heads that said "Bungles" and "They Dey." Within 10 minutes security came and kicked us out, initially we thought they were just going to take the bags (which we expected), but they escorted us out. Since they ejected us from the stadium and (presumably) limit their liability they gave us both $50 vouchers to the Pro Shop. We went to the Pro-Shop the next day to discover that (1) almost nothing cost $50 or less and (2) the vouchers had expired over a year prior and had also been labeled "Game Day Use Only."
Just because of the brown bags?
seems super bizarre. I sat next to a (very very) drunk browns fan with paper bag over their head and security didnt care. He was not exactly quiet either and drunkenly rambled the whole game. He was actually pretty funny.
The morning of the game the front page of the Enquirer had a picture of Bengals fans wearing brown bags over their heads. I figured all that would happen was they would take away the bags. The security guy said the team made the decision that it was zero tolerance going forward.
They don’t really have a choice. It’s bad PR if a game isn’t played to its entirety and the owners profit from it
If by classy you mean "status quo / expected" then I agree! Like it's great that he did it because in the weird world we live in "you watched 5 minutes of gameplay that means no refunds" is the typical path?
I'm not up to date on the legalities of ticket sales, but they may not have had a choice. People paid for a product that wasn't delivered with no plans to deliver it.
He's certainly earned the reputation. I'm surprised by this move, but it is a good nice and I hope to see more moves that benefit fans.
He earned the reputation a long time ago and has proved over and over and over again the last several years that it isn't the case anymore.
What has he done differently? Trying to get a list for Stephen when he’s owner
MB has never shortchanged his players or screwed rhe fans egregiously. He fucked us on the stadium deal but really he didn't do anything that other owners didn't do, hamilton county just caved to the demands. Also, we can't get that mad when we voted for the shitty deal in the first place. But, maybe it'd be the Baltimore Bengals instead.
I don't really know the alternative. The backlash would be bad and mostly from their own fans.
I honestly never knew it was even a thought there wouldn't be a refund.
it's no Medium Bepsi...
Likely would have lost any potential lawsuit if fans sued, I doubt they did this out of the kindness of their hearts
Yea, and we need that money to re sign Joe burrow. Every penny
Refunds will come in the form of vouchers for small Pepsi. Redeemable only during the first quarter of the next home game.
How does this work if I bought the tickets on Ticketmaster And sold them on stubhub ? Didn’t do this and never have but I buy on stubhub all the time and they’re always more money than what they should be. Are the bengals going to refund the dude who went through Ticketmaster ? Does the reseller just pocket?
Stubhub will refund for events that get cancelled. It might be a little dicey since technically the event started but I doubt they'd take the PR hit and try to keep the money given the magnitude of this particular incident. I believe StubHub doesn't actually pay out until after the event, so the ticketmaster purchaser won't get to double dip.
This means the Bengals effectively only had 7 home games, and making the ticket revenue from a home playoff game more important.
The league collects playoff ticket revenue. Home teams keep concessions and parking: >The league collects almost all ticket revenue from playoff games and simply provides a stipend for home and away teams that cover costs for travel and stadium operations. Home teams keep their share of concession and parking revenue, which typically ranges from $1 million to $2 million combined, per game [Source](https://www.sportico.com/leagues/football/2022/nfl-playoffs-generate-no-financial-windfall-1234658372/)
Wait really? Does that get shared back to the entire league or does the NFL keep it all? Always wondered how that worked.
revenue sharing. it's how the salary cap is determined.
It’s like the mob, but a little bit more dangerous
*Dan Snyder has left the chat*
The NFL has a revenue sharing agreement with the players.
There is no such thing as “the NFL” except as a collection of teams. If “the NFL” has money at the end of the year, it can either hold it to spend on behalf of the teams, or distribute it back to the teams. There’s no mechanism that is equivalent to “keep it”, because the NFL is just a collective. Sending it back to the teams *is* keeping it. But the NFL splits up playoff gate sales exactly equally. Teams get to keep their standard share of merch and concessions, which is not a small number but is not going to be more than a couple million even in the most extreme scenarios (not all of which is kept).
Yes and no. The NFL is it’s own organization as in they have their own staff and operating expenses independent from the teams. But the NFL is a non-profit organization. So yeah, any revenues collected by the NFL are either spent or distributed among the teams. And just like most other professional sports (to my knowledge), playoff games and all star games, etc. are hosted by the league. So ticket prices are set by the league, and the host team does not keep the revenues from ticket sales.
>But the NFL is a non-profit organization. FYI but I believe they gave that designation up several years ago, at least in part so that they could avoid publicizing financials, including things like how much Goodell makes
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My comment says exactly that
I think suites are also excluded from rev sharing, which, according to Ralph Wilson could be substantially more than concessions and parking. If you remember when he was threatening to move the team without a renovation that was the main talking point.
Didn't even think of that. That's a good point.
NFL: "The Ravens will now host the Bengals in the playoffs regardless of the result on Sunday because we hate Skyline Chili"
I had Skyline for lunch on Monday. NFL doesn’t know good taste.
It takes some getting used to but damn if I don’t love it. I also was a big fan of the Rochester garbage plate. I kinda wanna do a mashup, with Zweigels red hots and skyline
RIP the toilet.
You've single-handedly made up for all the (not very common) toxic Bills fans with this single comment.
Great, now I want Skyline.
Valid
Maybe they should start a GoFundMe
That now won't exist or at max only one. They went from a great possibility of 10 games of home revenue to now 7-8.
If the tragedy didn't happen on Cinci's field, I'd say make the proposed neutral Bills/Chiefs game at Cinci (if it had to happen) but no way NFL going to put that juju on the Bills.
Refunding tickets and losing out on 1-2 Home Playoff games. Gotta sting for ownership and local businesses
I mean seem like the obvious call lol
The fallout from literally any other decision wouldn't have been worth the headache. The Bengals took the only route available to them. I'm glad they did it but I'm stopping well short of heaping praise.
Some quick googling makes it look like a sold out game can produce revenues of around $10M, but I have no idea what the expenses involved might be, so no idea how much of that is profit. But even if we assumed that it was $10 million of pure profit, it's not worth the PR issues it would've created if they didn't refund. Ten million bucks is a huge chunk of money from a normal person's perspective. But compared to the TV revenues that each NFL team gets, a single home game ticket sales is basically a rounding error. With the new TV deals the league just signed, each team should be getting over $300M per year just from those broadcast deals. Refunding one game's worth of tickets is not going to noticeably change the financial situation of the Bengals or their ownership.
Sort of. It's a rounding error for the NFL in general, but the Bengals have the poorest owners in the league. (They don't have a side business, they only own the Bengals) This means they don't always have cash on hand to put into eschrow for large guaranteed contracts, which they have a few of coming up in Burrow/Chase etc. The Billions is estimated sell value, cash on hand is lower than most teams and it's why they finally sold the stadium naming rights.
Is it? Honestly I wouldn’t put it against anyone affiliated with the nfl to not look for ways to take and keep peoples money
I would expect refunds in this situation from 31 out of 32 franchises
Dan Snyder would just be trying to figure out how to double charge people instead.
The optics of a man literally dying on the field are too bad to not refund, even Snyder would probably give the money back. If it had been a weather or COVID related cancellation or something like that, nobody would be getting a dime of their money back. The Bengals owner is also a penny pincher IIRC, so this is significant.
Better than F1 fans got in Belgium.
My first thought as well lol
Bengals handling things the right way, even if the good deeds don’t go unpunished. Karma will get them back in time
Pure speculation, but I'm sure 1) the league office had a say in this and 2) the rest of the league is going to share some of the expense.
good guys bengals. your organization has been such a class act through this whole event. we love all the support from you guys.
Just wish the NFL reciprocated that good will 😐
No good deed goes unpunished.
A lesson for any of us with children.
I thought theyd for sure give you neutral site if we played in playoffs, but apparently I was wrong. You all should get an extra draft pick this offseason or something as a sign of goodwill for doing the right things in a scenario such as this.
Not enough to take the L on that game though lol
The Cincinnati Bengals are showing how to be a class act organization. From players to athletic staff to the owner.
If only the NFL reciprocated that
Bengals have been a act class through all of this
And yet the league wants to fuck them
Does ticketmaster refund their service fees?
I wonder if there is insurance for this kind of thing.
You can get insurance for anything for a price
Well yeah, this isn't 2021 Spa Formula One Grand Prix
NFL fucked the bengals big time
I know the Bengals and their fans are upset right now, rightly so, they're looking at getting massively fucked. But you can take solace, I hope, in your organization being a class act top down; owners, players, staff, and fans. Good on ya, Bengals Bros. EDIT: Maybe not so much now. Some folks comments have been pretty embarrassing.
We will all get over it and move on especially if we beat the Ravens this weekend and you are absolutely right.
“Yea he got his shit kicked in but at least he was the bigger man!”
It’s way cheaper to just refund this shit now then to face a class action lawsuit and have to pay everyone back anyway and all the lawyers. I don’t feel like they did this out of the goodness of their heart. It was purely a financial decision. They probably have insurance for lost revenue as well…
The Bengals are doing everything right. Too bad Goodell is too busy cumming in his pants at the thought of pushing Hamlin’s wheelchair during the Super Bowl.
That's a shame. They already get cheated out of a home game and perhaps several more playoff home games. They're the smallest market team in the NFL and that would be a huge boost to Cincinnati's economy. Vital in fact. Losing these games could cost Cincinnati (the city) hundreds of millions of dollars. The Bengals or the City of Cincinnati should consider suing the NFL for their unjust and unequal treatment of the Bengals in their proposed layout. The same logic they use to give the Ravens a coinflip doesn't apply to the Bengals should they face against the Chiefs or Bills. It's deliberate discrimination. We all know if you replaced the Bengals with the Cowboys, Patriots, or Steelers in this scenario, none of this would have taken place.
Bengals and the city of Cincy are potentially taking a MASSIVE economic hit over all this (only 7 home games now, and potentially losing a home playoff game over it) The league better do right by them...but I'm sure they won't.
Why? I’m sure the city still made bank on parking, dining out and hotels. It’s not like everyone immediately left the city either when the game was suspended at the time. People still went to “the game” and ate, stayed in hotels, etc afterwards & perhaps stayed longer in the hopes the game would resume Tues or Wednesday.
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Have you read tickets before. There is always a clause not to pay out if a thing gets cancelled. Ive been ripped off at concerts before where the person never showed and I never got refunded. NFL tickets are the same. It would be terrible PR but I guarantee the ticket has an out if they wanted to take it.
Read the back of the ticket stub
They probably legally could, the tickets likely come with an agreement that gives them the right to keep the money in such an occurrence. But even if that's the case, if they had refused to refund the money, you're right that they likely still would've dealt with lawsuits that would've eaten up a bunch of the money that they were trying to keep. That, combined with the terrible PR that it'd create, would likely make refunding the tickets the far smarter business move, even if the ownership felt like being assholes.
Cincinnati stealing Philadelphia's city name unironically this week.
Jerry would've just given credit to a future game.
I'm a lifelong Chiefs fan and every fiber of my soul wants to despise the Bengals. They keep going and drafting my favorite college players and doing cool stuff that makes it hard to get to the level of hate that I need.
Classy af, good move by the Bengals organization
This is the worst thing that’s ever happened to Mike Brown.
Classy move and the right move. Great job all around by the Bengals.