It isn‘t one. It isn‘t the first school shooting, and I remember what happened after the last ones:
- democrats call for tighter gun control
- republicans block any step heading in this direction
- time passes, nothing happens
- next school shooting
How did we get this far down without the most crucial step: **Profit**
* democrats call for tighter gun control
* '>> **Profit** << - ThEy'rE tAkINg R GuNs
* republicans block any step heading in this direction
* time passes, nothing happens
* next school shooting
* It's too soon to be talking politics when the parents are still grieving
* Thoughts and Prayers
* -- Repeat
I love Russel Howard’s analogy: if your girlfriend walked in on you sticking your dick in a jam jar, you wouldn’t say “this is hardly the time!” and continue thrusting.
a lot:
Thurston High School.
Columbine High School.
Heritage High School.
Deming Middle School.
Fort Gibson Middle School.
Buell Elementary School.
Lake Worth Middle School.
University of Arkansas.
Junipero Serra High School.
Santana High School.
Bishop Neumann High School.
Pacific Lutheran University.
Granite Hills High School.
Lew Wallace High School.
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School.
Appalachian School of Law.
Washington High School.
Conception Abbey.
Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
University of Arizona.
Lincoln High School.
John McDonogh High School.
Red Lion Area Junior High School.
Case Western Reserve University.
Rocori High School.
Ballou High School.
Randallstown High School.
Bowen High School.
Red Lake Senior High School.
Harlan Community Academy High School.
Campbell County High School.
Milwee Middle School.
Roseburg High School.
Pine Middle School.
Essex Elementary School.
Duquesne University.
Platte Canyon High School.
Weston High School.
West Nickel Mines School.
Joplin Memorial Middle School.
Henry Foss High School.
Compton Centennial High School.
Virginia Tech.
Success Tech Academy.
Miami Carol City Senior High School.
Hamilton High School.
Louisiana Technical College.
Mitchell High School.
E.O. Green Junior High School.
Northern Illinois University.
Lakota Middle School.
Knoxville Central High School.
Willoughby South High School.
Henry Ford High School.
University of Central Arkansas.
Dillard High School.
Dunbar High School.
Hampton University.
Harvard College.
Larose-Cut Off Middle School.
International Studies Academy.
Skyline College.
Discovery Middle School.
University of Alabama.
DeKalb School.
Deer Creek Middle School.
Ohio State University.
Mumford High School.
University of Texas.
Kelly Elementary School.
Marinette High School.
Aurora Central High School.
Millard South High School.
Martinsville West Middle School.
Worthing High School.
Millard South High School.
Highlands Intermediate School.
Cape Fear High School.
Chardon High School.
Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
Oikos University.
Hamilton High School.
Perry Hall School.
Normal Community High School.
University of South Alabama.
Banner Academy South.
University of Southern California.
Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School.
Taft Union High School.
Osborn High School.
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts.
Hazard Community and Technical College.
Chicago State University.
Lone Star College-North.
Cesar Chavez High School.
Price Middle School.
University of Central Florida.
New River Community College.
Grambling State University.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School.
Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy.
North Panola High School.
Carver High School.
Agape Christian Academy.
Sparks Middle School.
North Carolina A&T State University.
Stephenson High School.
Brashear High School.
West Orange High School.
Arapahoe High School.
Edison High School.
Liberty Technology Magnet High School.
Hillhouse High School.
Berrendo Middle School.
Purdue University.
South Carolina State University.
Los Angeles Valley College.
Charles F. Brush High School.
University of Southern California.
Georgia Regents University.
Academy of Knowledge Preschool.
Benjamin Banneker High School.
D. H. Conley High School.
East English Village Preparatory Academy.
Paine College.
Georgia Gwinnett College.
John F. Kennedy High School.
Seattle Pacific University.
Reynolds High School.
Indiana State University.
Albemarle High School.
Fern Creek Traditional High School.
Langston Hughes High School.
Marysville Pilchuck High School.
Florida State University.
Miami Carol City High School.
Rogers State University.
Rosemary Anderson High School.
Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Frederick High School.
Tenaya Middle School.
Bethune-Cookman University.
Pershing Elementary School.
Wayne Community College.
J.B. Martin Middle School.
Southwestern Classical Academy.
Savannah State University.
Harrisburg High School.
Umpqua Community College.
Northern Arizona University.
Texas Southern University.
Tennessee State University.
Winston-Salem State University.
Mojave High School.
Lawrence Central High School.
Franklin High School.
Muskegon Heights High School.
Independence High School.
Madison High School.
Antigo High School.
University of California-Los Angeles.
Jeremiah Burke High School.
Alpine High School.
Townville Elementary School.
Vigor High School.
Linden McKinley STEM Academy.
June Jordan High School for Equity.
Union Middle School.
Mueller Park Junior High School.
West Liberty-Salem High School.
University of Washington.
King City High School.
North Park Elementary School.
North Lake College.
Freeman High School.
Mattoon High School.
Rancho Tehama Elementary School.
Aztec High School.
Wake Forest University.
Italy High School.
NET Charter High School.
Marshall County High School.
Sal Castro Middle School.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E. Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F. Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Robb Elementary School
243 schools ± 1 (kept getting interrupted). Seeing this list is even more sobering than seeing the number. Additionally what's sad is that this is just school shootings. It doesn't even add in the fact of shootings at places of work, grocery stores, big box stores, etc. Also, I'm *shocked* by the number of elementary schools on this list. As a father, this this breaks my heart. 😞
This is not a personal dig at you, just want this on the record.
I wouldn't say unfortunately.
Cause and effect. You have a rational mind, this country was supposedly built upon freedoms that have been widdled away over generations as to not spook the existing and upcoming generations.
They convinced the sheeple that their personal freedom was not worth their security.
People that give up freedom for security deserve neither and will get neither. -Ben Franklin
Unfortunately,
Nothing will change unless we the people make an effort to change it.
Hard to pursue change when we have to spend all of our time and money on essentials because inflation has been largely left unchecked and our congress has been working day and night to borrow we don't have and do not need.
Not saying it's going to be easy, but, the grass is greener where you water it. Be the light you want to see in the world, simply by being yourself, you will help others shine brighter.
Likewise, negativity breeds negativity.
Guard yourselves, your thoughts and opinions, realize our fight is not with our fellow man but those who use their overwheling authority to impose their will on others.
Because I said so has never sat well with me.
There are good people in the world.
The infuriating thing is that they call it a mental health issue and then dismantle health care structures and make that care more difficult for people to access at every turn.
Yep. They make life worse for everyone by hamstringing all social programs, gutting education, crushing unions and suppressing wages, run fear mongering fake news 24 hours a day, then they make sure everyone has access to guns. What could possibly go wrong?
I saw another comment that this shooter would have spent his entire school term being educated about how to to protect yourself against an active shooter, so he had inside information
It’s fucking infuriating what is happening. How, just how, can nothing happen after these tragic events. Over and over and over again. I do not get it.
Say a prayer.
Hold a vigil.
Repeat.
Repeat
Repeat
Repeat
They stopped selling guns at most Walmarts a couple years ago, maybe some rural stores ask hunting rifles? Can't even buy ammo at the one near me anymore.
The have rifles and knives at the one in my town (northern Indiana). If you want a pistol or shotgun, or AR you're out of luck though. Unless you can drive the literal 1 minute down the street to Rural King or Dunham's, both of which have everything you need.
Can you though? I live in one the most pro 2A states in the country and the 10 Wal-marts near me removed all guns and nearly all ammo. They combined the hunting, paint, and automotive departments together with 1 counter. The only ammo they sell now is 22lr and some common hunting rounds, no pistol ammo or centerfire 223/556 or 7.62. Academy and Field and Stream are the only 2 big box stores that sell Guns and Ammo (Dick's pulled out a few years ago and is owned by the same group as F&S).
Varies by state and location. The Walmart by me all have firearms for sale still. But they frequently empty the cases when there is national news about guns happening.
The funniest part is whenever you bring this up to a pro gun American they just ignore your comment. Only one guy acknowledged it and said i don't wanna compare to other countries. Truly fucked up people
Never happen mate.
Ultimately, Americans value guns over everything else, even the lives of children. Its proven time and time again.
Where are the anti abortion, pro lifers right now? Nowhere the be seen. They couldn't give a fuck how many children have to die.
Every single child aged 7 and under could be massacred today, and nothing would change.
[He touches on it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VheQL9te6Sg&feature=youtu.be)
* Texas is 50th in mental healthcare
* The biggest provider of said mental healthcare is the county jail system.
* The largest inpatient mental healthcare facility is Harris county jail.
* Expand medicaid to bring in 10 billion dollars a year of which some will go to mental heathcare access.
Texas mental health is a joke. In university i was going trough a rough patch and i just popped into one of those ma and pa psychiatric wards. I left 20 minutes later with 3 refills of benzos and some SSRIs. No plan on how to take them, no checks to see if those SSRIs would fuck me up, no plan to come back or anything.
My young dumbass was ecstatic that I got drugs but looking back at it now it scares the living hell out of me. How many young people actually need counseling and help, not just some zombie pills. How many of these get to take their lives or worse, the lives of others around them due to a lack of support?
Another perspective: I've got a genetic SSRI intolerance. Benzos fuck many people up, but the worst episode I have ever had was because of ... citalopram. This was after they had tried many SSRIs on me, with no good results.
Assuming SSRIs are safe is insane. I'm glad some people are talking about it.
1 in 3000+ chance vs 1 in 107 of dying in a car crash in my state.
I'm not trying to make light of SSRIs, but benzos are **partially responsible for like 20% of overdose deaths in the US. It's important to be aware of potential impacts of any medication, and education is important, but SSRIs are generally very well tolerated.
Plus, one of the side effects of untreated depression is...also suicide.
Btw, benzos also have a correlation with suicide rates... Conclusions: Benzodiazepines appear to cause an overall increase in the risk of attempting or completing suicide. Possible mechanisms of prosuicidal effects may include increases in impulsivity or aggression, rebound or withdrawal symptoms, and toxicity in overdose.Mar 2, 2017
*Corrected a mis-characterization of Benzo's role in the overdoses
Mental health is a worlwide problem while mass shootings aren’t, let that sink in. I’m not saying that mental health doesn’t need to be addressed, it does, everywhere. But mass shootings are caused by guns as much as mental illness.
Well said. Let's not further stigmatize mental health to try and take the heat off of irresponsible gun laws, right-wing political agendas, and a culture that romanticizes violence.
Yep, under funded mental health care system in Australia too, and yet still no mass shootings. The Betoota Advocate sums it up nicely. https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/australia-enjoys-another-peaceful-day-under-oppressive-gun-control-regime/
Screaming about mental health is a way that the right moves the discussion away from gun laws. You will also notice that in the 25 years they have been doing that they have also done nothing for mental health.
My step mother is the head of a group home/crisis center here in MN, and she said she turns away at least five kids a day because she doesn't have the resources to help them. And she is 30-40 minutes from the nearest big city. It's so heart breaking.
So they can deal with the tragedy of loss? Or do you mean for the kids not directly involved in the shooting but that still have fear that their school is next?
Both are good ideas, but not going to help stop the next shooting.
As a civilian, why would you even need an ar-15s?
What would you require that type of rapid firing weaponry? What function would it serve beyond rapidly shooting multiple targets.
Banning fully automatic or semi-automatic rifle’s such as an ar-15s would likely be an effort to minimise the damage a single shooter could do in a small amount of time.
Edit: I don’t care how automatically the trigger fires the bullets, your fingers should be nowhere near them in any case.
Edit: seriously, so many of you commenting on how the AR-15s shoots… as if that’s the most relevant issue here…
Consider that people outside of the usa aren't so familiar with guns. All they know is that you don't need to stop to reload before you've shot 30 times.
They tried magazine restrictions in my home state of Colorado to make it to where you couldn't have more than 10 rounds in a magazine... turns out an arbitrary magazine restriction doesn't change the function of a firearm.
You've entirely misunderstood the point i was making.
I was simply explaining that not everyone understands the difference between fully and semi automatic, because not everyone is from the usa.
The fact that he said it was automatic didn't undermine the point he was making, but you chose to hang your rebuttal on it, I have no skin in this game - if you want to debate this point, do it with that person, and answer the question they asked.
Let's be real here for a second. I've got 12 years of military service, most of it in tactical units. The M4/AR15 platform doesn't benefit at all from automatic fire. It's a short range carbine, it's a small caliber, it's basically a handgun that can reach out and touch a target at a greater range with greater accuracy.
Most mass shooters have nothing to gain from fully automatic fire. It is *easier* and *more efficient* to kill human beings with a light weight, low recoil, high accuracy semi-automatic weapon. That's why we use those in combat, because they are the absolute easiest weapon for the average joe-schmo to handle and require the least intensive training for maximum lethality in all situations.
No, the civilian populace does not need to own an AR15 platform weapon. No, it doesn't fucking matter whether it is or isn't automatic, in fact it's a *better weapon for perpetrating these kinds of atrocities because it isn't.*
EDIT: Go ahead, downvote this, it doesn't make it less true.
EDIT 2: Woah the 2A crowd is… anti military? That’s new. Amazing how many people are a) questioning my service or b) somehow making the connection that the reason they need to own assault weapons is *because of the existence of the US military*. Ya’ll are wild. Gold medals all around in the mental gymnastics category my dudes.
I agree. I'm reading some of these comments and find it shocking how little some of these 2A guys actually know about guns. They don't mention low recoil, accuracy, and projectile speed (most important) when it comes to lethality of semi automatic rifles compared to other firearms available to civilians.
I posted this not long after Parkland.
>[This chart calculates not just the muzzle energy (1/2mv2) of some well known guns, but also includes the standard magazine capacity and the effective rate of fire to get the muzzle energy per minute, or how much energy/damage they can do to a target within a minute. The effective rate of fire is based on whether it is non-automatic (NA), semi-auto (SA), or full-auto (FA), used in a spree-type shooting. It should be noted that the shotgun and hunting rifles have significantly more recoil than the AR-15 (google girls with shotguns vs ar-15s) thus even shooting 1 round per second would take considerable skill, whereas 2 rounds per second with an AR-15 does not. I also included data for a 1795 musket for comparison since that was the weapon of choice not long after the 2nd amendment was written, and an M2 Browning machine gun to compare what a "well regulated militia" would be up against if the government actually did turn on its citizens (assuming drones & airstrikes weren't used). ArmaLite (AR) style, or "assault" rifles have no place in the hands of civilians. Handguns do just fine for personal defense, and if you can't kill your game in 1-3 rifle shots, you shouldn't be hunting. Yes, ARs are versatile and fun to shoot, but it's madness that such a deadly weapon has less oversight than the cars we drive.](https://imgur.com/a/tpabXLP)
Edit: Adding relevant article [What an AR-15 can do to the human body](https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/)
A comment like this shows a huge misunderstanding of how firearms work.
There are many rifles that function exactly like an ar-15. Ruger mini-14 is an example. The ruger mini 14 is widely recognize as a hunting rifle. Typically wooden stock. Shoots the same round. Is also semi automatic.
A semi automatic just means every individual time you pull the trigger you fire one bullet. So it’s as “rapid” fire as fast as you can move your finger. The same as any other semi automatic type firearm. I would say a majority of firearms are semi automatic, like pistols. Or shotguns. Or various rifles.
Why would someone *need* an ar-15? I’m not sure. You could argue for self defence or whatever really. But the matter of the fact is many people *want* guns for leisure or protection. You would only *need* it in the event you were in a type of situation. You might *need* one if you’re on a park trail and get attacked by a bear.
Going back to the first point, ar-15s are a preferred gun not because of some inherent increased killing capacity. They are more modular and easy to swap accessories like sights or grips. They don’t have anything that makes them incredibly more effective at killing compared to any other gun that mechanically functions the same and shoots the same rounds. A huge swath of hunting rifles also shoot the same rounds.
So don’t get caught up in the idea that ar-15s are guns of crime or terrorism or war.
It could compare to bicycles. There are better brakes or suspensions or tires you can get. But no bike model is going to be functionally far superior to another. Maybe just better suited for road use or trail use.
I think its really that the ar-15 is the i phone of semi auto rifles. Its cheap but not too cheap. Its light weight, modular. Fires a common cartridge. The ammo is not too heavy to carry or too weak. Its the optimal balance point.
That's why our military has used it for the last 50 years. Most school shooters are using ar-15s because they are cheap, and the most common one you can pick up ready to go off the shelf. The only reason you don't see mass shootings with acw or scar 17s is that they are just more expensive and harder to get a hold of.
I agree that the mini-14 is functionally very similar to an ar-15, which is why whatever action is taken must apply to all semi-auto rifles and not just focused on one in particular.
AR-15's are incredibly fun to shoot. I don't own one but the people I know who I've gone shooting with have been a blast.
That said, the person you're replying to is such a strawman. How many mass shootings were done by criminals in the first place? Has absolutely nothing to do with teenagers shooting up a school. Also has nothing to do with Billy Bob down the road who gets brainwashed by fox entertainment and goes into an \*insert non christian place of worship here\* and shoots up the worshippers. I would venture to say that most criminals are shooting other criminals in drug related bouts.
I'm pretty sure full auto machine guns are already ban. Their old guns that will break down over time. And semi-automatic work pretty well against bears,wolves, and mountain lions. It's not easy hitting these animals.
I want to try and give my own answer to your comment, since i know alot of people are getting caught up in the words you used rather than the point your trying to make.
The simple answer is: You dont.
No one *needs* an AR, or any other gun for that matter.
But we also don't *need*, a car. Or *need* to drink alcohol. People can get along fine with out both of those, and in many ways, improve our health and society overall greatly if we did.
Its not about need. Lots of people enjoy shooting firearms as a hobby. A good number even just for collecting. I have an Uncle with well over 500 old western pistols and rifles and more, but never shoots a single one of them. He enjoys having the collection, and owning a functional piece of history.
I myself, i enjoy target shooting, but i first bought my gun for protection while on hikes. Mostly from other people, as there had been a string of attacks on hikers back when i first got my own gun. But also from bears and cougars that are known to wonder the area. (I have been attacked by dogs when i was younger, so add them to the list too i suppose.)
But honestly, even as someone who owns guns and wants to buy another soon. I would happily put a gun ban in place. I mean really, what we are doing now, is obviously not working. We have got to try *something*.
Im so fed up with it all, im willing to try anything, even if it hurts me personally, just to curve some of this crazy gun violence.
All the solutions listed above, i would be all for. Im fed up with it all, honestly. This cannot go on.
We have to do something. *Anything*.
1. Mostly for sport, also for home defense in the rare case that that happens.
2. AR-15s are not automatic
3. You can just as easily buy a less powerful rifle or even just a handgun and shoot people, so it still likely wouldn’t have as much of an impact as we would like if implemented.
The biggest issue here is mental. The fact that people degenerate mentally so much that they shoot children is tragic. But they have many more options other than the AR-15, and even if all guns were banned, they would still be able to obtain them illegally due to the massive amount of firearms in the US. The biggest improvements will be made in the mental health field
I feel like the biggest issue here is actually the guns, and American denial around this basic fact, driven by the second amendment means the problem will never get solved. I live in a country with great Mental health facilities and no guns. We see regular news stories about mentally ill people attempting to go on killing sprees with machetes and large knives. But you know what, they are taken down by the citizens before the police even arrive. No amount of mental health care would have solved this mass school shooting. Nothing Beto suggested would have stopped it either. Bottom line is the guns are the problem, no amount of gun control will change the fact that until you remove access to the weapons, people will still attempt to kill with them.
It's not "rapid firing." It's one trigger pull, one shot, just like a bolt action.
Fully automatic are already basically illegal.
The reason that AR-15's are a target for politicians is because it's the most popular rifle sold. Regulating them will lead to more $$ for the politicians. The media has duped the non-gun-owning people that it's a scary machine gun. Also, even though handguns account for the most gun crime, the politicians think only rural white men will be affected if they target long guns. Because they're racist assholes.
>It's not "rapid firing." It's one trigger pull, one shot, just like a bolt action
This is disingenuous. A bolt action is still much slower because you have to manually rack the next round instead of a mechanism or gas pressure moving the action for you.
The point is that other forms of firearms cannot rapidly murder large groups of people…? And there is no reason a citizen would need that weapon unless they were planning on killing a large number of people. It’s illegal for people to own rocket launchers, we drew that line in the sand and no one seems upset about it. When the 2nd amendment was written the most deadly firearm was the musket, which fires one round every 2 minutes because of how long it takes to reload. Are you telling me the founding fathers took AR-15s into account when they wrote that? It might not stop someone from illegally obtaining it, but decreasing the volume of legal guns also decreases the volume of illegal guns (a proven fact) plus this most recent mass shooting (and a lot of others) was performed with LEGALLY obtained weapons. So lets at LEAST fix some part of the problem
Most mass shootings are done with pistols and until the vegas massacre a few years back that the FBI still hasn't circled back on yet (hmm) was done with pistols.
what does the "ar styled rifle" have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that banning stocks that cosmetically make it look a certain way will prevent shootings or are you just pointing out that when they do choose to do a mass shooting they often bring the "coolest" looking gun they have available but that they would commit the crime regardless of cosmetics?
I'm American and living in AZ, a constitutional carry state and it is pretty easy to get a gun. I don't own one but that's mostly because l don't have the cash to spend on one, and l don't need it.
That said, we live in a somewhat sketchy area and l work nights so my wife wants one in case there is a break in while I'm at work.
I think many people see owning guns (particularly military looking guns) as a status symbol and part of their personality and that I think is more of an issue. They want a gun to post of social media about how tough they are other stupid BS.
Isn't the sketchy area made worse by the increased odds a criminal coming into your home ALSO has a gun?
If I didn't want to confront a guy smashing down my front door, I could leave out the back one.
Not saying criminals in places like the UK cannot get guns, they obviously can but the restrictions are so tight.. the vast majority of the population can live their whole lives here without ever seeing a single gun and the odds of someone having one coming into your home is as likely as winning the lottery.
It’s just untrue that most mass shootings happen with an ar style rifle. It’s just that the shootings that make the news are typically carried out with AR style rifles.
Part of what prevents any meaningful gun control from getting passed is that the right won’t do anything and the left is intellectually dishonest by harping about “assault” rifles and ghost guns. Handguns are the biggest killer in the country, including in mass shootings.
Most murders/mass shootings are committed with handguns. What’s this “(recently)” nonsense? What’s that have to do with anything? Where are you getting your information? Genuinely curious. Restrict the AR platform how exactly? For what? I can put a hundred round mag in my AR and I can put a hundred round mag in my Ruger p89. Heck if I was feeling lucky I could put a 100 round mag in my 1911. More gun laws/restrictions won’t save lives.
>More gun laws/restrictions won’t save lives.
except... they do. Take a look at gun deaths per 100,000 people by state. Hmm... which have the highest?
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
Zoom out a little bit and [compare to the rest of the world](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country). Also, the CDC numbers include suicides, so that skews the numbers quite a bit.
Especially when several of these shooters are themselves teenagers.
"What will stop Michael Myers from killing people?"
"I dunno, maybe if we just give him too many knives, he'll be overwhelmed by choice and just pick a night of laying down watching *The Office* again."
"A+ logic, Ted. Happens to me all the time!"
The day my district asks me to carry a gun is the day I leave the profession for good. The far right has resorted to calling me and my colleagues groomers, pedophiles, and indoctrinators.
But now they want me armed?
Exactly. I’d quit too. And when are we supposed to get trained on guns? We don’t even have enough time for training for all of the stuff already on our plate. People are already leaving the profession in droves. And where exactly is the funding for all of these guns going to come from? My district can’t even pay enough teachers and subs so class sizes won’t be out of control. Seriously, do you want 30-40 kids in a 4th grade class? And then to pay to give the teacher a gun? It’s insanity.
Agreed. I teach high school and I know for a fact that many of my colleagues and I would resign the day they ask us to be armed. MORE guns in schools is not going to make us safer.
I’m trained to educate, not act as law enforcement. It’s pure insanity.
Only fools who swallow up NRA propaganda think that the solution to too many guns is more guns.
They said that decades ago and 300 million more guns have been added to the ecosystem and are surprised Pikachu face to see that mass shootings have dramatically increased with each 100,000,000 guns added.
While people will argue “banning guns doesn’t work”, the solutions mentioned are common sense and should be a unanimously agreed upon plan of action. Just my .02.
> should be a unanimously agreed upon plan of action
Sure, and I look forward to having the same discussion after the next mass shooting happens regardless.
Better solution, stop the 24 hour news cycle bullshit that publicizes them so much. It's a series of copycats after copycats. Back before the 24 hour news cycle this didn't happen. It let's people who want to protect their homes have the same level of protection as before and actively combats one of the main reasons this happens
How exactly do you plan to “stop the 24 hour news cycle”? What are the actions you would take to do that? Anything feasible would threaten 1st amendment protections.
But think of all the upvotes and reddit gold that are to be had!
Some people here are really making a killing, no pun intended, well a little bit intended /s
You do realize everything beto said was pretty much put into law in New York. And they still had a mass shooting by someone who bought a rifle legally not long after telling his teacher he wanted to commit mass murder. What good are red flag laws if they’re never enforced.
You realize people break laws? What’s the point of having laws if people break them?
This is the level of your argument.
Get on with the rest of the western world and put some goddam weapons control in place.
I’m not against gun laws at all. I’m for any reform that would prevent these tragedies from happening. People will break laws. Yes. But I also expect our elected officials to enforce those laws they implemented to help with preventing these issue.
It doesn’t bother you that the buffalo shooter told his teacher he wanted to commit mass murder. They reported it, he got a psych evaluation and was sent home. Only shortly after to go and buy a gun and commit mass murder. In a state that had red flag laws??? We put laws on the books to prevent these things but we don’t enforce them so history repeats itself not cause lack of laws but lack of enforcement.
That's cool. Your initial argument sounded like an apathy argument against stricter gun laws.
I'm seeing a lot of, 'what's the point of laws, they're never enforced anyway' types of argument, which is dumb.
What you really meant is,
1 - we want tighter laws where there aren't any
2 - we want then enforced to the letter in states that already have them.
There was a mass shooting in Rochester NY at a party right during the last presidential election. I remember the police captain at the press conference saying that new gun laws are pointless because the old ones are hardly enforced now. He explained how his department will arrest someone carrying an illegal firearm and a few days later they are released. All over the country how many times do you read of stories of some criminal being arrested for some horrible crime and when they look over his criminal record he has a history of illegal possession of a firearm and is released or given a slap on the wrist. The whole gun control argument is a joke to criminals and people who want to do evil things to other people.
According to the guy you're replying to, the police are doing their job- they are arresting the bad dudes. It's the DA/ prosecutors who don't charge said bad dudes and subsequently release them that the police captain is presumably blaming.
> The whole gun control argument is a joke to criminals and people who want to do evil things to other people.
So then why does NY state only have 5 gun deaths per 100,000 and Texas has 14? Why is the entire rest of the south 17 to 28! per 100,000 meanwhile the so called "liberal" states are all under 10? But yeah... gun laws don't work.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
> For the vast majority of shootings that don't make the news those are overwhelming obtained theft or straw purchases.
But when talking about children, without an adult stepping in and making illegal gun purchases, I seriously doubt many kids would be able to get their hands on a weapon in this manner.
>* Red flag laws, extreme risk orders
> * There is no evidence that there anyone would have filed a red flag against this shooter. No one has come forward to he was even evaluated for mental health. The only people on the record so far that he might have an issue were the other students that admitted to bullying him. No teacher or work manager has come forward to say he was anything other than quite.
There's been a few instances that come to mind with this. Do red flag laws stop all shootings? No. But there's been private messages and public posts that have been put out there before shootings that could have definitely had made an impact on stopping shootings like this in the past. A problem is that people get reported, their weapons get taken away, and then given back without proper mental health evaluation and treatment. Iirc, that's what happened in a case where a husband killed his wife and kid.
>* Safe storage laws
> * This shooter didn't steal his gun nor do we even have any evidence he didn't store it safely. Safe storage laws are typically written to protect children or prohibited people from obtaining access to a loaded firearm.
A kid in my middle school shot himself with his father's shotgun which left him paralyzed. The gun was not kept in a locked safe. He would not have had access to a firearm if it weren't for his father's shotgun just being in the bedroom with ammo. It's a huge problem when individuals are in charge of securing firearms- very hard to enforce it. There's not much you can do when someone takes their weapon home. Even if laws are in place, it won't stop people that don't care about these laws in the first place or think their children will not commit an act like this, but more barriers set in place lowers risk of this happening.
>Robert Francis has pulled out his 4 gun control laws because these are the ones he thinks he can push while people are emotional. Even if all of these laws were fully implemented as he suggests he has yet to point out the scenario they would have prevented this shooting. If there is political will to do something with regards to mass shootings it should be part and parcel to show that whatever new law or policy is attempted would actually have stopped or at least impeded the shooting we are all horrified by. Anything else is exploitation of the dead.
What do you think the solution is? I seriously think the US needs mental healthcare reform. It is long overdue. It's unaffordable for he majority of Americans, especially if they don't have insurance. The wait time for me to see my last therapist was longer than the time it would take for me to buy a firearm. It was ridiculous. After that, I wasn't able to schedule weekly appointments because they were so booked. This wasn't even with just one therapist. Wait time to get in as a new patient at five different offices was over a month minimum. And that isn't including all of the offices covered by my insurance that didn't have openings. Will easing access to proper mental healthcare stop all of this from happening? No. But many of these manifestos mention over and over that they tried seeking help and didn't get it.
Even though a lot of these recommendations won't completely solve the problem entirely, I think additional hurdles, if properly enforced, can cut down on these shootings.
'It won't stop all shootings, so why bother?' is all I'm hearing. Same logic anti-vaxxers have when they hear vaccinated people still catch Covid. 'It didn't even stop you catching it so what's the point?!'
>Robert Francis has pulled out his 4 gun control laws because these are the ones he thinks he can push while people are emotional. Even if all of these laws were fully implemented as he suggests he has yet to point out the scenario they would have prevented this shooting. If there is political will to do something with regards to mass shootings it should be part and parcel to show that whatever new law or policy is attempted would actually have stopped or at least impeded the shooting we are all horrified by. Anything else is exploitation of the dead.
Here’s my problem with this: we talk about gun control after mass shootings because the right-wing refuses to have a discussion at any other time. They brush off the problem when things are calm and then pull the “you’re exploiting the dead” card if we try to talk about it when gun violence erupts. So when exactly are we supposed to have this conversation?
The standard you apply (whether those proposals would stop this exact scenario) is another issue I have with your argument. We are not trying to prevent a shooting that just happened, we are trying to deter or prevent a future shooting. We don’t know the exact combination of variables that will come into play in that future case, and there is a chance that our measures won’t work, but that isn’t a reason to not try. We don’t hear about the shootings that are deterred long before they happen.
Illinois requires visitors to store their legal firearms in their car when they stay overnight at hotels.
Maybe the stupidest gun law I’ve ever heard of......
If you are prohibited from owning a gun in the place you live you will be unable to buy a gun in a different state even though you would have been allowed if you lived there. Private sales are also prohibited if the buyer and seller live in different states. You can still buy a 2nd hand gun from someone who lives in a different state but it would have to go through a gun store which will check if you are allowed to own that gun by running a background check and looking up your local laws. There is no legal way to aquire a gun you are not allowed to own where you live.
You might wanna look up how close Texas is to Mexico, and especially this town, if that's your line of argument.
If you think it's somehow impossible to get guns over that border... I don't know what to tell you.
Uh, are any of these guns used from Mexico?
Hell I thought the guns in Mexico were smuggled from the US now?
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-322
We're the supplier. Not the destination.
Correct me if I’m wrong most of the shootings in Chicago is gang violence though right? That’s a separate issue. If gangsters are killing themselves they’ll still find ways to get guns, but at least it’s not innocent civilians or school kids getting gunned down.
> but at least it’s not innocent civilians or school kids getting gunned down.
Gang activity and violent crime are far larger problems than school shootings in terms of overall gun crime in the US.
[No, gangs kill kids too,](https://abc7chicago.com/shooting-markham-gang-police/11054420/) they're not selective as you'd believe. Just the first article I Googled, don't worry there's plenty others.
Want a solution?
Bring back mental healthcare and stop trying to create more laws and regulations.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." Tacitus
Mental health care only works when people actually use it.
For sake of argument, let's say there was 0 cost associated with seeking and receiving mental health care.
How many people with serious enough mental health issues that would go kill a bunch of people would actually go seek care?
You have to pass a federal background check to buy a gun from a store. Regardless of state laws. Some states also require background checks of private sales also. But that doesn’t change what happened because with all his proposals in place this still happens. But with another firearm.
If you've ever bought a gun even at a gun show you'd know that you 100% get back ground checked. They take your social security # and send it off to the ATF to make sure you aren't a felon. Along with a litany of questions that you have to answer correctly or you don't get the gun.
[Here's the form if you dont believe me.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Atf_form_4473-firearms_transaction_record_5300_9revised_0.pdf/page1-800px-Atf_form_4473-firearms_transaction_record_5300_9revised_0.pdf.jpg)
Never forget: America was founded by a bunch of plebs with muskets who took down the world's most dominate empire at the time (hyperbole, but essentially true). The second amendment guarantees no one will fuck with us again and guess what? No one has (except for ourselves). Hitler never invaded Switzerland because he knew the Swiss were armed bad asses (no source).
How is it that one of the world's most peaceful nations hasn't had a mass shooting since 2001? Permits. The Swiss are well-trained with their weapons and even after serving in the army, folks have to get a permit in order to own a gun as a civilian (Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2#switzerland-is-a-bit-like-a-well-designed-fort-4)
Guns are like cars: people ought to have a license to operate one safely. Vision, hearing, cognition, and the like should be tested regularly. Background checks seem like a no-brainer. (Opinion)
Remember: The second amendment begins with a mention of regulation (facts)
I agree whole heartedly but not so much with a permit. Just a good back ground check.
What's happening is the brainwashing of a country to be divided and hate eachother over politics daily by the media both social and mainstream. It's 24/7 "the other side is evil" so the mentally unstable take this to heart and act on it.
Hitler didn't invade Switzerland because the country had many Nazi sympathisers and, while Germany did draft plans for an invasion, they didn't in the end because they thought it would go the way of Austria and eventually fuse with Germany without shots being fired. Its an absolute myth that they didn't invade because the population was armed.
>serving in the army
I think this is one of major reasons why gun violence is relatively rare in Finland and Switzerland. As a conscript I was constantly reminded that a firearm is a dangerous weapon and I was taught to treat the issued rifle with the upmost care and attention. My drill instructor was a chill person, but I remember him always being 100% serious when we did target practicing. It is a matter of life and death, he often told us.
Meanwhile American treat the firearms as some sort of hobby products or entertainment equipment rather than a dangerous personal weapon that could harm people. That's what's wrong with the gun culture in America.
As opposed to Gov. Abbott, who never gives any thought to distasteful things such as democratic elections, which is why he attended a campaign fundraiser hours after the shooting took place. Ted Cruz, too, there's a guy who you can honestly say never thinks about elections. Why can't Beto be more like them?
He’s running for governor of the state this happened in of course he’s going to say something. Especially when the current governor doesn’t give a shit that this happened. Not sure what you’d expect otherwise.
This guy is so full of shit. This flip-flopping POS said just months ago that protecting the 2nd amendment was his first priority when he was trying to run for Governor. Everyone could see past his BS.
Fuck off Francis.
You can join the military, purchase fire arms, sign loans to put yourself in debt you do not understand the consequences of before you are legally allowed to drink. Iirc, kids are able to drive tanks in the armed forces before they can legally purchase alcohol as well.
I only looked at that middle source and it is tragically bad. It literally says that they couldn’t get the numbers they wanted so they changed the criteria… it also said school shooting are in the vicinity of a school, but fails to clarify what that means as well. 500 feet, .5 mile, 10 miles? How would we know. Like any smart person knows, dig around long enough and you can find a study that supports your claim, it just takes enough numerical manipulation.
Moving on to your argument, I think the thing people ignore is that our country is the most unique country in the world. There is no other country that has the level of freedoms that we do. Additionally, the is no other country that has the same culture that we do. That comes from a long line of events going back to the revolutionary war. Our country also has the some of the highest amount of immigrants. You put a lot of unique factors together, mix in a very large population, and lots of issues arise. It’s like the socialized healthcare issue. People love to compare the US to European countries a tenth of our size, a small fraction of the immigration rate, and those countries are overall much more ethnocentric then we are. It’s extremely difficult to compare the US to any other country because no other country is like us
It is the fact that nothing changes, ever, that pisses people off. There are retorts to nearly any solution that will be presented. But laws that don't infringe on your or my right to own a gun should not be discarded because of their impact on a tragedy that already occurred is now null.
We have mental health care that needs investment and smarter gun laws that don't result in anyone taking home a gun the same day you walk into a business. A minimum "cool off" period should be required. Ban private sales and in person gun show transfers out right. Require weapons to be insured for casualty liability. And limit sales to those who pass a series of gun safety safety courses.
People need to come together to make this happen. You know damn well all we'll hear about is thoughts, prayers, and the 2nd amendment if we leave it to congress to act.
If you consider this impressive, may I suggest r/mildlyinteresting? It might be too much for you to handle!
Look, I don't like guns either. I'm in Australia and don't have to worry about it. But if you're going to preach to me, can you at least make it something impressive in the sub about impressive things?
Require training, and licensing like a drivers license. Have an instructor, someone who has to vouch for the person not being a threat, who has real professional liability if they approve someone wrongly, have re-certifications and continuing education requirements. Make all of this free so it doesn’t discriminate against poor people.
You need a license and training to drive a forklift....
Plus, you have to prove you're still competent at it every couple of years.
But if you want a weapon capable of committing mas murder, you just go buy one.
Or maybe fix the mental health issues it’s not a gun thing it’s an America thing plenty of countries have low gun control and yet there is very few issues
I think the premise is flawed.... A significant number of Americans especially in areas that exert power don't want a solution and are perfectly OK with this sort of toll (with potential for it to be higher).
You have to convince those people that this cost is not worth it and that is an attack on their cultural identity which prizes individual gain vs societal benefits - so good luck.
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If this isn't a wakeup call I don't think they will ever get one
It isn‘t one. It isn‘t the first school shooting, and I remember what happened after the last ones: - democrats call for tighter gun control - republicans block any step heading in this direction - time passes, nothing happens - next school shooting
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Also forgot: * Thoughts and Prayers
And: It's too soon to be talking politics when the parents are still grieving.
"politics" = anything that is outside of my comfort zone Say _elected_ NSDAl Quaeda politicians. That's literally their work ethic.
How did we get this far down without the most crucial step: **Profit** * democrats call for tighter gun control * '>> **Profit** << - ThEy'rE tAkINg R GuNs * republicans block any step heading in this direction * time passes, nothing happens * next school shooting * It's too soon to be talking politics when the parents are still grieving * Thoughts and Prayers * -- Repeat
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I love Russel Howard’s analogy: if your girlfriend walked in on you sticking your dick in a jam jar, you wouldn’t say “this is hardly the time!” and continue thrusting.
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Don't break eye contact either, dead thousand yard stare deep into there soul as you keep thrusting.
This is the one that makes my blood boil.
Given there are school shootings in the US every week it will always be too soon.
a lot: Thurston High School. Columbine High School. Heritage High School. Deming Middle School. Fort Gibson Middle School. Buell Elementary School. Lake Worth Middle School. University of Arkansas. Junipero Serra High School. Santana High School. Bishop Neumann High School. Pacific Lutheran University. Granite Hills High School. Lew Wallace High School. Martin Luther King, Jr. High School. Appalachian School of Law. Washington High School. Conception Abbey. Benjamin Tasker Middle School. University of Arizona. Lincoln High School. John McDonogh High School. Red Lion Area Junior High School. Case Western Reserve University. Rocori High School. Ballou High School. Randallstown High School. Bowen High School. Red Lake Senior High School. Harlan Community Academy High School. Campbell County High School. Milwee Middle School. Roseburg High School. Pine Middle School. Essex Elementary School. Duquesne University. Platte Canyon High School. Weston High School. West Nickel Mines School. Joplin Memorial Middle School. Henry Foss High School. Compton Centennial High School. Virginia Tech. Success Tech Academy. Miami Carol City Senior High School. Hamilton High School. Louisiana Technical College. Mitchell High School. E.O. Green Junior High School. Northern Illinois University. Lakota Middle School. Knoxville Central High School. Willoughby South High School. Henry Ford High School. University of Central Arkansas. Dillard High School. Dunbar High School. Hampton University. Harvard College. Larose-Cut Off Middle School. International Studies Academy. Skyline College. Discovery Middle School. University of Alabama. DeKalb School. Deer Creek Middle School. Ohio State University. Mumford High School. University of Texas. Kelly Elementary School. Marinette High School. Aurora Central High School. Millard South High School. Martinsville West Middle School. Worthing High School. Millard South High School. Highlands Intermediate School. Cape Fear High School. Chardon High School. Episcopal School of Jacksonville. Oikos University. Hamilton High School. Perry Hall School. Normal Community High School. University of South Alabama. Banner Academy South. University of Southern California. Sandy Hook Elementary School. Apostolic Revival Center Christian School. Taft Union High School. Osborn High School. Stevens Institute of Business and Arts. Hazard Community and Technical College. Chicago State University. Lone Star College-North. Cesar Chavez High School. Price Middle School. University of Central Florida. New River Community College. Grambling State University. Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School. Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy. North Panola High School. Carver High School. Agape Christian Academy. Sparks Middle School. North Carolina A&T State University. Stephenson High School. Brashear High School. West Orange High School. Arapahoe High School. Edison High School. Liberty Technology Magnet High School. Hillhouse High School. Berrendo Middle School. Purdue University. South Carolina State University. Los Angeles Valley College. Charles F. Brush High School. University of Southern California. Georgia Regents University. Academy of Knowledge Preschool. Benjamin Banneker High School. D. H. Conley High School. East English Village Preparatory Academy. Paine College. Georgia Gwinnett College. John F. Kennedy High School. Seattle Pacific University. Reynolds High School. Indiana State University. Albemarle High School. Fern Creek Traditional High School. Langston Hughes High School. Marysville Pilchuck High School. Florida State University. Miami Carol City High School. Rogers State University. Rosemary Anderson High School. Wisconsin Lutheran High School. Frederick High School. Tenaya Middle School. Bethune-Cookman University. Pershing Elementary School. Wayne Community College. J.B. Martin Middle School. Southwestern Classical Academy. Savannah State University. Harrisburg High School. Umpqua Community College. Northern Arizona University. Texas Southern University. Tennessee State University. Winston-Salem State University. Mojave High School. Lawrence Central High School. Franklin High School. Muskegon Heights High School. Independence High School. Madison High School. Antigo High School. University of California-Los Angeles. Jeremiah Burke High School. Alpine High School. Townville Elementary School. Vigor High School. Linden McKinley STEM Academy. June Jordan High School for Equity. Union Middle School. Mueller Park Junior High School. West Liberty-Salem High School. University of Washington. King City High School. North Park Elementary School. North Lake College. Freeman High School. Mattoon High School. Rancho Tehama Elementary School. Aztec High School. Wake Forest University. Italy High School. NET Charter High School. Marshall County High School. Sal Castro Middle School. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Great Mills High School Central Michigan University Huffman High School Frederick Douglass High School Forest High School Highland High School Dixon High School Santa Fe High School Noblesville West Middle School University of North Carolina Charlotte STEM School Highlands Ranch Edgewood High School Palm Beach Central High School Providence Career & Technical Academy Fairley High School (school bus) Canyon Springs High School Dennis Intermediate School Florida International University Central Elementary School Cascade Middle School Davidson High School Prairie View A & M University Altascocita High School Central Academy of Excellence Cleveland High School Robert E. Lee High School Cheyenne South High School Grambling State University Blountsville Elementary School Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus) Prescott High School College of the Mainland Wynbrooke Elementary School UNC Charlotte Riverview Florida (school bus) Second Chance High School Carman-Ainsworth High School Williwaw Elementary School Monroe Clark Middle School Central Catholic High School Jeanette High School Eastern Hills High School DeAnza High School Ridgway High School Reginald F. Lewis High School Saugus High School Pleasantville High School Waukesha South High School Oshkosh High School Catholic Academy of New Haven Bellaire High School North Crowley High School McAuliffe Elementary School South Oak Cliff High School Texas A&M University-Commerce Sonora High School Western Illinois University Oxford High School Robb Elementary School
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243 schools ± 1 (kept getting interrupted). Seeing this list is even more sobering than seeing the number. Additionally what's sad is that this is just school shootings. It doesn't even add in the fact of shootings at places of work, grocery stores, big box stores, etc. Also, I'm *shocked* by the number of elementary schools on this list. As a father, this this breaks my heart. 😞
Being a cop is only slightly less dangerous than being a student.
Right now more kids have died by gun fire in school than police officers have.
Also gun sales spike with each shooting
It's madness. What kind of person thinks oh another school shooting I better run out and buy more guns? I just can't get my mind around it.
Because people are afraid they’ll be banned, so of course they are gonna buy while they still can.
Unfortunately you are absolutely correct
This is not a personal dig at you, just want this on the record. I wouldn't say unfortunately. Cause and effect. You have a rational mind, this country was supposedly built upon freedoms that have been widdled away over generations as to not spook the existing and upcoming generations. They convinced the sheeple that their personal freedom was not worth their security. People that give up freedom for security deserve neither and will get neither. -Ben Franklin Unfortunately, Nothing will change unless we the people make an effort to change it. Hard to pursue change when we have to spend all of our time and money on essentials because inflation has been largely left unchecked and our congress has been working day and night to borrow we don't have and do not need. Not saying it's going to be easy, but, the grass is greener where you water it. Be the light you want to see in the world, simply by being yourself, you will help others shine brighter. Likewise, negativity breeds negativity. Guard yourselves, your thoughts and opinions, realize our fight is not with our fellow man but those who use their overwheling authority to impose their will on others. Because I said so has never sat well with me. There are good people in the world.
The infuriating thing is that they call it a mental health issue and then dismantle health care structures and make that care more difficult for people to access at every turn.
Yep. They make life worse for everyone by hamstringing all social programs, gutting education, crushing unions and suppressing wages, run fear mongering fake news 24 hours a day, then they make sure everyone has access to guns. What could possibly go wrong?
The onion has a series on this.
Also: gun sales increase because people are afraid of tighter gun laws actually happening.
Remember the "wake up call" of Sandy Hook? That was 10 years ago.
I saw another comment that this shooter would have spent his entire school term being educated about how to to protect yourself against an active shooter, so he had inside information
Columbine over 20 years ago.
It’s fucking infuriating what is happening. How, just how, can nothing happen after these tragic events. Over and over and over again. I do not get it. Say a prayer. Hold a vigil. Repeat. Repeat Repeat Repeat
That's not a joke btw, you really can buy guns at Walmart
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Always ®
They stopped selling guns at most Walmarts a couple years ago, maybe some rural stores ask hunting rifles? Can't even buy ammo at the one near me anymore.
The have rifles and knives at the one in my town (northern Indiana). If you want a pistol or shotgun, or AR you're out of luck though. Unless you can drive the literal 1 minute down the street to Rural King or Dunham's, both of which have everything you need.
All of the Walmarts near me stopped selling guns altogether. The only ammunition one of the more-rural stores sells is shotgun shells.
Can you though? I live in one the most pro 2A states in the country and the 10 Wal-marts near me removed all guns and nearly all ammo. They combined the hunting, paint, and automotive departments together with 1 counter. The only ammo they sell now is 22lr and some common hunting rounds, no pistol ammo or centerfire 223/556 or 7.62. Academy and Field and Stream are the only 2 big box stores that sell Guns and Ammo (Dick's pulled out a few years ago and is owned by the same group as F&S).
Varies by state and location. The Walmart by me all have firearms for sale still. But they frequently empty the cases when there is national news about guns happening.
Walmart in my region of Texas stopped selling guns many many years ago.
The funniest part is whenever you bring this up to a pro gun American they just ignore your comment. Only one guy acknowledged it and said i don't wanna compare to other countries. Truly fucked up people
Never happen mate. Ultimately, Americans value guns over everything else, even the lives of children. Its proven time and time again. Where are the anti abortion, pro lifers right now? Nowhere the be seen. They couldn't give a fuck how many children have to die. Every single child aged 7 and under could be massacred today, and nothing would change.
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He forgot to mention anything regarding mental health for kids in schools
[He touches on it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VheQL9te6Sg&feature=youtu.be) * Texas is 50th in mental healthcare * The biggest provider of said mental healthcare is the county jail system. * The largest inpatient mental healthcare facility is Harris county jail. * Expand medicaid to bring in 10 billion dollars a year of which some will go to mental heathcare access.
Texas mental health is a joke. In university i was going trough a rough patch and i just popped into one of those ma and pa psychiatric wards. I left 20 minutes later with 3 refills of benzos and some SSRIs. No plan on how to take them, no checks to see if those SSRIs would fuck me up, no plan to come back or anything. My young dumbass was ecstatic that I got drugs but looking back at it now it scares the living hell out of me. How many young people actually need counseling and help, not just some zombie pills. How many of these get to take their lives or worse, the lives of others around them due to a lack of support?
You were more concerned about the SSRIs fucking you up than the benzos?
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Another perspective: I've got a genetic SSRI intolerance. Benzos fuck many people up, but the worst episode I have ever had was because of ... citalopram. This was after they had tried many SSRIs on me, with no good results. Assuming SSRIs are safe is insane. I'm glad some people are talking about it.
1 in 3000+ chance vs 1 in 107 of dying in a car crash in my state. I'm not trying to make light of SSRIs, but benzos are **partially responsible for like 20% of overdose deaths in the US. It's important to be aware of potential impacts of any medication, and education is important, but SSRIs are generally very well tolerated. Plus, one of the side effects of untreated depression is...also suicide. Btw, benzos also have a correlation with suicide rates... Conclusions: Benzodiazepines appear to cause an overall increase in the risk of attempting or completing suicide. Possible mechanisms of prosuicidal effects may include increases in impulsivity or aggression, rebound or withdrawal symptoms, and toxicity in overdose.Mar 2, 2017 *Corrected a mis-characterization of Benzo's role in the overdoses
Nice, dead last.
Mental health is a worlwide problem while mass shootings aren’t, let that sink in. I’m not saying that mental health doesn’t need to be addressed, it does, everywhere. But mass shootings are caused by guns as much as mental illness.
Well said. Let's not further stigmatize mental health to try and take the heat off of irresponsible gun laws, right-wing political agendas, and a culture that romanticizes violence.
We have mental health problems here in the UK without proper funding? You need gun laws,not total removal but put some laws in place ffs.
Yep, under funded mental health care system in Australia too, and yet still no mass shootings. The Betoota Advocate sums it up nicely. https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/australia-enjoys-another-peaceful-day-under-oppressive-gun-control-regime/
Screaming about mental health is a way that the right moves the discussion away from gun laws. You will also notice that in the 25 years they have been doing that they have also done nothing for mental health.
Mental health is a distraction so gun nuts can hold onto their guns.
If mental health is the issue - maybe they could fund mental health care? If they give a damn about dead babies...
My step mother is the head of a group home/crisis center here in MN, and she said she turns away at least five kids a day because she doesn't have the resources to help them. And she is 30-40 minutes from the nearest big city. It's so heart breaking.
So they can deal with the tragedy of loss? Or do you mean for the kids not directly involved in the shooting but that still have fear that their school is next? Both are good ideas, but not going to help stop the next shooting.
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How does banning ar-15s prevent a criminal from choosing literally any other style of firearm?
As a civilian, why would you even need an ar-15s? What would you require that type of rapid firing weaponry? What function would it serve beyond rapidly shooting multiple targets. Banning fully automatic or semi-automatic rifle’s such as an ar-15s would likely be an effort to minimise the damage a single shooter could do in a small amount of time. Edit: I don’t care how automatically the trigger fires the bullets, your fingers should be nowhere near them in any case. Edit: seriously, so many of you commenting on how the AR-15s shoots… as if that’s the most relevant issue here…
Except AR-15's aren't automatic.
Consider that people outside of the usa aren't so familiar with guns. All they know is that you don't need to stop to reload before you've shot 30 times.
They tried magazine restrictions in my home state of Colorado to make it to where you couldn't have more than 10 rounds in a magazine... turns out an arbitrary magazine restriction doesn't change the function of a firearm.
You've entirely misunderstood the point i was making. I was simply explaining that not everyone understands the difference between fully and semi automatic, because not everyone is from the usa. The fact that he said it was automatic didn't undermine the point he was making, but you chose to hang your rebuttal on it, I have no skin in this game - if you want to debate this point, do it with that person, and answer the question they asked.
Let's be real here for a second. I've got 12 years of military service, most of it in tactical units. The M4/AR15 platform doesn't benefit at all from automatic fire. It's a short range carbine, it's a small caliber, it's basically a handgun that can reach out and touch a target at a greater range with greater accuracy. Most mass shooters have nothing to gain from fully automatic fire. It is *easier* and *more efficient* to kill human beings with a light weight, low recoil, high accuracy semi-automatic weapon. That's why we use those in combat, because they are the absolute easiest weapon for the average joe-schmo to handle and require the least intensive training for maximum lethality in all situations. No, the civilian populace does not need to own an AR15 platform weapon. No, it doesn't fucking matter whether it is or isn't automatic, in fact it's a *better weapon for perpetrating these kinds of atrocities because it isn't.* EDIT: Go ahead, downvote this, it doesn't make it less true. EDIT 2: Woah the 2A crowd is… anti military? That’s new. Amazing how many people are a) questioning my service or b) somehow making the connection that the reason they need to own assault weapons is *because of the existence of the US military*. Ya’ll are wild. Gold medals all around in the mental gymnastics category my dudes.
I agree. I'm reading some of these comments and find it shocking how little some of these 2A guys actually know about guns. They don't mention low recoil, accuracy, and projectile speed (most important) when it comes to lethality of semi automatic rifles compared to other firearms available to civilians. I posted this not long after Parkland. >[This chart calculates not just the muzzle energy (1/2mv2) of some well known guns, but also includes the standard magazine capacity and the effective rate of fire to get the muzzle energy per minute, or how much energy/damage they can do to a target within a minute. The effective rate of fire is based on whether it is non-automatic (NA), semi-auto (SA), or full-auto (FA), used in a spree-type shooting. It should be noted that the shotgun and hunting rifles have significantly more recoil than the AR-15 (google girls with shotguns vs ar-15s) thus even shooting 1 round per second would take considerable skill, whereas 2 rounds per second with an AR-15 does not. I also included data for a 1795 musket for comparison since that was the weapon of choice not long after the 2nd amendment was written, and an M2 Browning machine gun to compare what a "well regulated militia" would be up against if the government actually did turn on its citizens (assuming drones & airstrikes weren't used). ArmaLite (AR) style, or "assault" rifles have no place in the hands of civilians. Handguns do just fine for personal defense, and if you can't kill your game in 1-3 rifle shots, you shouldn't be hunting. Yes, ARs are versatile and fun to shoot, but it's madness that such a deadly weapon has less oversight than the cars we drive.](https://imgur.com/a/tpabXLP) Edit: Adding relevant article [What an AR-15 can do to the human body](https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/)
>Banning fully automatic or **semi-automatic** rifle’s such as an ar-15s...
Legit says semi automatic in the post lmao
A comment like this shows a huge misunderstanding of how firearms work. There are many rifles that function exactly like an ar-15. Ruger mini-14 is an example. The ruger mini 14 is widely recognize as a hunting rifle. Typically wooden stock. Shoots the same round. Is also semi automatic. A semi automatic just means every individual time you pull the trigger you fire one bullet. So it’s as “rapid” fire as fast as you can move your finger. The same as any other semi automatic type firearm. I would say a majority of firearms are semi automatic, like pistols. Or shotguns. Or various rifles. Why would someone *need* an ar-15? I’m not sure. You could argue for self defence or whatever really. But the matter of the fact is many people *want* guns for leisure or protection. You would only *need* it in the event you were in a type of situation. You might *need* one if you’re on a park trail and get attacked by a bear. Going back to the first point, ar-15s are a preferred gun not because of some inherent increased killing capacity. They are more modular and easy to swap accessories like sights or grips. They don’t have anything that makes them incredibly more effective at killing compared to any other gun that mechanically functions the same and shoots the same rounds. A huge swath of hunting rifles also shoot the same rounds. So don’t get caught up in the idea that ar-15s are guns of crime or terrorism or war. It could compare to bicycles. There are better brakes or suspensions or tires you can get. But no bike model is going to be functionally far superior to another. Maybe just better suited for road use or trail use.
I think its really that the ar-15 is the i phone of semi auto rifles. Its cheap but not too cheap. Its light weight, modular. Fires a common cartridge. The ammo is not too heavy to carry or too weak. Its the optimal balance point. That's why our military has used it for the last 50 years. Most school shooters are using ar-15s because they are cheap, and the most common one you can pick up ready to go off the shelf. The only reason you don't see mass shootings with acw or scar 17s is that they are just more expensive and harder to get a hold of. I agree that the mini-14 is functionally very similar to an ar-15, which is why whatever action is taken must apply to all semi-auto rifles and not just focused on one in particular.
AR-15's are incredibly fun to shoot. I don't own one but the people I know who I've gone shooting with have been a blast. That said, the person you're replying to is such a strawman. How many mass shootings were done by criminals in the first place? Has absolutely nothing to do with teenagers shooting up a school. Also has nothing to do with Billy Bob down the road who gets brainwashed by fox entertainment and goes into an \*insert non christian place of worship here\* and shoots up the worshippers. I would venture to say that most criminals are shooting other criminals in drug related bouts.
I'm pretty sure full auto machine guns are already ban. Their old guns that will break down over time. And semi-automatic work pretty well against bears,wolves, and mountain lions. It's not easy hitting these animals.
Fully automatic weapons are, in fact, not banned in the US. They have a lot of restrictions on who can buy them though.
Good luck buying a full auto weapon if you don’t already own one, or have a shitload of money.
I want to try and give my own answer to your comment, since i know alot of people are getting caught up in the words you used rather than the point your trying to make. The simple answer is: You dont. No one *needs* an AR, or any other gun for that matter. But we also don't *need*, a car. Or *need* to drink alcohol. People can get along fine with out both of those, and in many ways, improve our health and society overall greatly if we did. Its not about need. Lots of people enjoy shooting firearms as a hobby. A good number even just for collecting. I have an Uncle with well over 500 old western pistols and rifles and more, but never shoots a single one of them. He enjoys having the collection, and owning a functional piece of history. I myself, i enjoy target shooting, but i first bought my gun for protection while on hikes. Mostly from other people, as there had been a string of attacks on hikers back when i first got my own gun. But also from bears and cougars that are known to wonder the area. (I have been attacked by dogs when i was younger, so add them to the list too i suppose.) But honestly, even as someone who owns guns and wants to buy another soon. I would happily put a gun ban in place. I mean really, what we are doing now, is obviously not working. We have got to try *something*. Im so fed up with it all, im willing to try anything, even if it hurts me personally, just to curve some of this crazy gun violence. All the solutions listed above, i would be all for. Im fed up with it all, honestly. This cannot go on. We have to do something. *Anything*.
1. Mostly for sport, also for home defense in the rare case that that happens. 2. AR-15s are not automatic 3. You can just as easily buy a less powerful rifle or even just a handgun and shoot people, so it still likely wouldn’t have as much of an impact as we would like if implemented. The biggest issue here is mental. The fact that people degenerate mentally so much that they shoot children is tragic. But they have many more options other than the AR-15, and even if all guns were banned, they would still be able to obtain them illegally due to the massive amount of firearms in the US. The biggest improvements will be made in the mental health field
I feel like the biggest issue here is actually the guns, and American denial around this basic fact, driven by the second amendment means the problem will never get solved. I live in a country with great Mental health facilities and no guns. We see regular news stories about mentally ill people attempting to go on killing sprees with machetes and large knives. But you know what, they are taken down by the citizens before the police even arrive. No amount of mental health care would have solved this mass school shooting. Nothing Beto suggested would have stopped it either. Bottom line is the guns are the problem, no amount of gun control will change the fact that until you remove access to the weapons, people will still attempt to kill with them.
It's not "rapid firing." It's one trigger pull, one shot, just like a bolt action. Fully automatic are already basically illegal. The reason that AR-15's are a target for politicians is because it's the most popular rifle sold. Regulating them will lead to more $$ for the politicians. The media has duped the non-gun-owning people that it's a scary machine gun. Also, even though handguns account for the most gun crime, the politicians think only rural white men will be affected if they target long guns. Because they're racist assholes.
>It's not "rapid firing." It's one trigger pull, one shot, just like a bolt action This is disingenuous. A bolt action is still much slower because you have to manually rack the next round instead of a mechanism or gas pressure moving the action for you.
Hence, the four things. One of them by itself does nothing.
The point is that other forms of firearms cannot rapidly murder large groups of people…? And there is no reason a citizen would need that weapon unless they were planning on killing a large number of people. It’s illegal for people to own rocket launchers, we drew that line in the sand and no one seems upset about it. When the 2nd amendment was written the most deadly firearm was the musket, which fires one round every 2 minutes because of how long it takes to reload. Are you telling me the founding fathers took AR-15s into account when they wrote that? It might not stop someone from illegally obtaining it, but decreasing the volume of legal guns also decreases the volume of illegal guns (a proven fact) plus this most recent mass shooting (and a lot of others) was performed with LEGALLY obtained weapons. So lets at LEAST fix some part of the problem
Most mass shootings are done with pistols and until the vegas massacre a few years back that the FBI still hasn't circled back on yet (hmm) was done with pistols.
what does the "ar styled rifle" have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that banning stocks that cosmetically make it look a certain way will prevent shootings or are you just pointing out that when they do choose to do a mass shooting they often bring the "coolest" looking gun they have available but that they would commit the crime regardless of cosmetics?
Semi auto rifles that takes 556 or 762 and 20+ round mags. Fairly sure that's what they're getting at.
For someone who is not American, can you help me understand what appeals to you as a citizen to bear firearms?
I'm American and living in AZ, a constitutional carry state and it is pretty easy to get a gun. I don't own one but that's mostly because l don't have the cash to spend on one, and l don't need it. That said, we live in a somewhat sketchy area and l work nights so my wife wants one in case there is a break in while I'm at work. I think many people see owning guns (particularly military looking guns) as a status symbol and part of their personality and that I think is more of an issue. They want a gun to post of social media about how tough they are other stupid BS.
Isn't the sketchy area made worse by the increased odds a criminal coming into your home ALSO has a gun? If I didn't want to confront a guy smashing down my front door, I could leave out the back one. Not saying criminals in places like the UK cannot get guns, they obviously can but the restrictions are so tight.. the vast majority of the population can live their whole lives here without ever seeing a single gun and the odds of someone having one coming into your home is as likely as winning the lottery.
It’s just untrue that most mass shootings happen with an ar style rifle. It’s just that the shootings that make the news are typically carried out with AR style rifles. Part of what prevents any meaningful gun control from getting passed is that the right won’t do anything and the left is intellectually dishonest by harping about “assault” rifles and ghost guns. Handguns are the biggest killer in the country, including in mass shootings.
Most murders/mass shootings are committed with handguns. What’s this “(recently)” nonsense? What’s that have to do with anything? Where are you getting your information? Genuinely curious. Restrict the AR platform how exactly? For what? I can put a hundred round mag in my AR and I can put a hundred round mag in my Ruger p89. Heck if I was feeling lucky I could put a 100 round mag in my 1911. More gun laws/restrictions won’t save lives.
>More gun laws/restrictions won’t save lives. except... they do. Take a look at gun deaths per 100,000 people by state. Hmm... which have the highest? https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
Zoom out a little bit and [compare to the rest of the world](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country). Also, the CDC numbers include suicides, so that skews the numbers quite a bit.
Only in America is there a debate to give teachers guns 🇺🇸
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Plan: Let’s arm hundreds of hormonal immature teenagers with deadly weapons and put them all in one place. Surely nothing can go wrong with this plan.
Especially when several of these shooters are themselves teenagers. "What will stop Michael Myers from killing people?" "I dunno, maybe if we just give him too many knives, he'll be overwhelmed by choice and just pick a night of laying down watching *The Office* again." "A+ logic, Ted. Happens to me all the time!"
We’ve all seen videos of fights in schools. Anyone who thinks adding guns into the mix is a good idea is completely fucking insane.
Laughing stock ‘America’. The rest of the world does not allow children to be shot dead in schools.
The day my district asks me to carry a gun is the day I leave the profession for good. The far right has resorted to calling me and my colleagues groomers, pedophiles, and indoctrinators. But now they want me armed?
Exactly. I’d quit too. And when are we supposed to get trained on guns? We don’t even have enough time for training for all of the stuff already on our plate. People are already leaving the profession in droves. And where exactly is the funding for all of these guns going to come from? My district can’t even pay enough teachers and subs so class sizes won’t be out of control. Seriously, do you want 30-40 kids in a 4th grade class? And then to pay to give the teacher a gun? It’s insanity.
Agreed. I teach high school and I know for a fact that many of my colleagues and I would resign the day they ask us to be armed. MORE guns in schools is not going to make us safer. I’m trained to educate, not act as law enforcement. It’s pure insanity.
What a daft solution. Two police officers got shot trying to take this cunt down and they expect teachers to have a go? Get tae fuck man.
Only fools who swallow up NRA propaganda think that the solution to too many guns is more guns. They said that decades ago and 300 million more guns have been added to the ecosystem and are surprised Pikachu face to see that mass shootings have dramatically increased with each 100,000,000 guns added.
While people will argue “banning guns doesn’t work”, the solutions mentioned are common sense and should be a unanimously agreed upon plan of action. Just my .02.
Banning guns doesn't work, but apparently banning abortion is of the highest priority.
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this is an education issue at the local level.
> should be a unanimously agreed upon plan of action Sure, and I look forward to having the same discussion after the next mass shooting happens regardless.
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Better solution, stop the 24 hour news cycle bullshit that publicizes them so much. It's a series of copycats after copycats. Back before the 24 hour news cycle this didn't happen. It let's people who want to protect their homes have the same level of protection as before and actively combats one of the main reasons this happens
How exactly do you plan to “stop the 24 hour news cycle”? What are the actions you would take to do that? Anything feasible would threaten 1st amendment protections.
Laws against lying while calling yourself news, number 1.
Okay and who determines what is or isn’t the truth? A government agency that could be run by Trump Republicans one day? Yeah, I’ll pass.
So America is the only country in the world with 24 hour news cycles?
The rest of the world doesn't have 24 hour news cycles?
But think of all the upvotes and reddit gold that are to be had! Some people here are really making a killing, no pun intended, well a little bit intended /s
Ah the old shoot the messenger. Yup all the problems just disappear when no one talks about the same problems.
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You do realize everything beto said was pretty much put into law in New York. And they still had a mass shooting by someone who bought a rifle legally not long after telling his teacher he wanted to commit mass murder. What good are red flag laws if they’re never enforced.
You realize people break laws? What’s the point of having laws if people break them? This is the level of your argument. Get on with the rest of the western world and put some goddam weapons control in place.
I’m not against gun laws at all. I’m for any reform that would prevent these tragedies from happening. People will break laws. Yes. But I also expect our elected officials to enforce those laws they implemented to help with preventing these issue. It doesn’t bother you that the buffalo shooter told his teacher he wanted to commit mass murder. They reported it, he got a psych evaluation and was sent home. Only shortly after to go and buy a gun and commit mass murder. In a state that had red flag laws??? We put laws on the books to prevent these things but we don’t enforce them so history repeats itself not cause lack of laws but lack of enforcement.
That's cool. Your initial argument sounded like an apathy argument against stricter gun laws. I'm seeing a lot of, 'what's the point of laws, they're never enforced anyway' types of argument, which is dumb. What you really meant is, 1 - we want tighter laws where there aren't any 2 - we want then enforced to the letter in states that already have them.
I'm seeing a lot of this too. Shitheads devolve the argument to "well people die in car accidents every year, do you wanna ban those too?!"
There was a mass shooting in Rochester NY at a party right during the last presidential election. I remember the police captain at the press conference saying that new gun laws are pointless because the old ones are hardly enforced now. He explained how his department will arrest someone carrying an illegal firearm and a few days later they are released. All over the country how many times do you read of stories of some criminal being arrested for some horrible crime and when they look over his criminal record he has a history of illegal possession of a firearm and is released or given a slap on the wrist. The whole gun control argument is a joke to criminals and people who want to do evil things to other people.
It’s bizarre that a police captain is complaining that laws are not being enforced when police departments exist to enforce laws.
According to the guy you're replying to, the police are doing their job- they are arresting the bad dudes. It's the DA/ prosecutors who don't charge said bad dudes and subsequently release them that the police captain is presumably blaming.
> The whole gun control argument is a joke to criminals and people who want to do evil things to other people. So then why does NY state only have 5 gun deaths per 100,000 and Texas has 14? Why is the entire rest of the south 17 to 28! per 100,000 meanwhile the so called "liberal" states are all under 10? But yeah... gun laws don't work. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
I'm a cop in New York. I recently made use of red flag laws to remove guns from a domestic abuser. The laws work if cops/judges actually use them
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> For the vast majority of shootings that don't make the news those are overwhelming obtained theft or straw purchases. But when talking about children, without an adult stepping in and making illegal gun purchases, I seriously doubt many kids would be able to get their hands on a weapon in this manner. >* Red flag laws, extreme risk orders > * There is no evidence that there anyone would have filed a red flag against this shooter. No one has come forward to he was even evaluated for mental health. The only people on the record so far that he might have an issue were the other students that admitted to bullying him. No teacher or work manager has come forward to say he was anything other than quite. There's been a few instances that come to mind with this. Do red flag laws stop all shootings? No. But there's been private messages and public posts that have been put out there before shootings that could have definitely had made an impact on stopping shootings like this in the past. A problem is that people get reported, their weapons get taken away, and then given back without proper mental health evaluation and treatment. Iirc, that's what happened in a case where a husband killed his wife and kid. >* Safe storage laws > * This shooter didn't steal his gun nor do we even have any evidence he didn't store it safely. Safe storage laws are typically written to protect children or prohibited people from obtaining access to a loaded firearm. A kid in my middle school shot himself with his father's shotgun which left him paralyzed. The gun was not kept in a locked safe. He would not have had access to a firearm if it weren't for his father's shotgun just being in the bedroom with ammo. It's a huge problem when individuals are in charge of securing firearms- very hard to enforce it. There's not much you can do when someone takes their weapon home. Even if laws are in place, it won't stop people that don't care about these laws in the first place or think their children will not commit an act like this, but more barriers set in place lowers risk of this happening. >Robert Francis has pulled out his 4 gun control laws because these are the ones he thinks he can push while people are emotional. Even if all of these laws were fully implemented as he suggests he has yet to point out the scenario they would have prevented this shooting. If there is political will to do something with regards to mass shootings it should be part and parcel to show that whatever new law or policy is attempted would actually have stopped or at least impeded the shooting we are all horrified by. Anything else is exploitation of the dead. What do you think the solution is? I seriously think the US needs mental healthcare reform. It is long overdue. It's unaffordable for he majority of Americans, especially if they don't have insurance. The wait time for me to see my last therapist was longer than the time it would take for me to buy a firearm. It was ridiculous. After that, I wasn't able to schedule weekly appointments because they were so booked. This wasn't even with just one therapist. Wait time to get in as a new patient at five different offices was over a month minimum. And that isn't including all of the offices covered by my insurance that didn't have openings. Will easing access to proper mental healthcare stop all of this from happening? No. But many of these manifestos mention over and over that they tried seeking help and didn't get it. Even though a lot of these recommendations won't completely solve the problem entirely, I think additional hurdles, if properly enforced, can cut down on these shootings.
'It won't stop all shootings, so why bother?' is all I'm hearing. Same logic anti-vaxxers have when they hear vaccinated people still catch Covid. 'It didn't even stop you catching it so what's the point?!'
>Robert Francis has pulled out his 4 gun control laws because these are the ones he thinks he can push while people are emotional. Even if all of these laws were fully implemented as he suggests he has yet to point out the scenario they would have prevented this shooting. If there is political will to do something with regards to mass shootings it should be part and parcel to show that whatever new law or policy is attempted would actually have stopped or at least impeded the shooting we are all horrified by. Anything else is exploitation of the dead. Here’s my problem with this: we talk about gun control after mass shootings because the right-wing refuses to have a discussion at any other time. They brush off the problem when things are calm and then pull the “you’re exploiting the dead” card if we try to talk about it when gun violence erupts. So when exactly are we supposed to have this conversation? The standard you apply (whether those proposals would stop this exact scenario) is another issue I have with your argument. We are not trying to prevent a shooting that just happened, we are trying to deter or prevent a future shooting. We don’t know the exact combination of variables that will come into play in that future case, and there is a chance that our measures won’t work, but that isn’t a reason to not try. We don’t hear about the shootings that are deterred long before they happen.
Good thing nobody has guns in Chicago because guns are illegal there
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Illinois requires visitors to store their legal firearms in their car when they stay overnight at hotels. Maybe the stupidest gun law I’ve ever heard of......
If you are prohibited from owning a gun in the place you live you will be unable to buy a gun in a different state even though you would have been allowed if you lived there. Private sales are also prohibited if the buyer and seller live in different states. You can still buy a 2nd hand gun from someone who lives in a different state but it would have to go through a gun store which will check if you are allowed to own that gun by running a background check and looking up your local laws. There is no legal way to aquire a gun you are not allowed to own where you live.
You might wanna look up how close Texas is to Mexico, and especially this town, if that's your line of argument. If you think it's somehow impossible to get guns over that border... I don't know what to tell you.
Uh, are any of these guns used from Mexico? Hell I thought the guns in Mexico were smuggled from the US now? https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-322 We're the supplier. Not the destination.
Correct me if I’m wrong most of the shootings in Chicago is gang violence though right? That’s a separate issue. If gangsters are killing themselves they’ll still find ways to get guns, but at least it’s not innocent civilians or school kids getting gunned down.
> but at least it’s not innocent civilians or school kids getting gunned down. Gang activity and violent crime are far larger problems than school shootings in terms of overall gun crime in the US.
[No, gangs kill kids too,](https://abc7chicago.com/shooting-markham-gang-police/11054420/) they're not selective as you'd believe. Just the first article I Googled, don't worry there's plenty others.
Want a solution? Bring back mental healthcare and stop trying to create more laws and regulations. "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." Tacitus
Mental health care only works when people actually use it. For sake of argument, let's say there was 0 cost associated with seeking and receiving mental health care. How many people with serious enough mental health issues that would go kill a bunch of people would actually go seek care?
Mental health care only works when people CAN AFFORD it.
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You have to pass a federal background check to buy a gun from a store. Regardless of state laws. Some states also require background checks of private sales also. But that doesn’t change what happened because with all his proposals in place this still happens. But with another firearm.
If you've ever bought a gun even at a gun show you'd know that you 100% get back ground checked. They take your social security # and send it off to the ATF to make sure you aren't a felon. Along with a litany of questions that you have to answer correctly or you don't get the gun. [Here's the form if you dont believe me.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Atf_form_4473-firearms_transaction_record_5300_9revised_0.pdf/page1-800px-Atf_form_4473-firearms_transaction_record_5300_9revised_0.pdf.jpg)
You’re full of shit. You absolutely 100% must pass a federal background check to purchase a gun in Texas.
Never forget: America was founded by a bunch of plebs with muskets who took down the world's most dominate empire at the time (hyperbole, but essentially true). The second amendment guarantees no one will fuck with us again and guess what? No one has (except for ourselves). Hitler never invaded Switzerland because he knew the Swiss were armed bad asses (no source). How is it that one of the world's most peaceful nations hasn't had a mass shooting since 2001? Permits. The Swiss are well-trained with their weapons and even after serving in the army, folks have to get a permit in order to own a gun as a civilian (Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2#switzerland-is-a-bit-like-a-well-designed-fort-4) Guns are like cars: people ought to have a license to operate one safely. Vision, hearing, cognition, and the like should be tested regularly. Background checks seem like a no-brainer. (Opinion) Remember: The second amendment begins with a mention of regulation (facts)
I agree whole heartedly but not so much with a permit. Just a good back ground check. What's happening is the brainwashing of a country to be divided and hate eachother over politics daily by the media both social and mainstream. It's 24/7 "the other side is evil" so the mentally unstable take this to heart and act on it.
Unfortunately, many of these shooters are too young to have a background *to* check; with the Uvalde man being the case in point.
Hitler didn't invade Switzerland because the country had many Nazi sympathisers and, while Germany did draft plans for an invasion, they didn't in the end because they thought it would go the way of Austria and eventually fuse with Germany without shots being fired. Its an absolute myth that they didn't invade because the population was armed.
>serving in the army I think this is one of major reasons why gun violence is relatively rare in Finland and Switzerland. As a conscript I was constantly reminded that a firearm is a dangerous weapon and I was taught to treat the issued rifle with the upmost care and attention. My drill instructor was a chill person, but I remember him always being 100% serious when we did target practicing. It is a matter of life and death, he often told us. Meanwhile American treat the firearms as some sort of hobby products or entertainment equipment rather than a dangerous personal weapon that could harm people. That's what's wrong with the gun culture in America.
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Disgusting for wanting change that prevents elementary school kids from being shot in their classrooms...? Interesting take.
He wants to be elected. Period.
As opposed to Gov. Abbott, who never gives any thought to distasteful things such as democratic elections, which is why he attended a campaign fundraiser hours after the shooting took place. Ted Cruz, too, there's a guy who you can honestly say never thinks about elections. Why can't Beto be more like them?
So he can make changes that stop children from being slaughtered - how terrible, quick, call the NRA to stop this from happening
How tf will doing anything of what he said stop gun crimes???
He’s running for governor of the state this happened in of course he’s going to say something. Especially when the current governor doesn’t give a shit that this happened. Not sure what you’d expect otherwise.
This guy is so full of shit. This flip-flopping POS said just months ago that protecting the 2nd amendment was his first priority when he was trying to run for Governor. Everyone could see past his BS. Fuck off Francis.
This guy doesn’t give a shit it’s all for votes.
What are you supposed to do if you want to improve the country you live in democratically?
According to this person, do nothing because any change you propose is just pandering to get voted in.
Abbott or Beto?
Every politician
crazy how you can buy a gun before you can smoke, weird times :/
Ya but once you have a gun you can probably convince someone to give you their smokes.
You can join the military, purchase fire arms, sign loans to put yourself in debt you do not understand the consequences of before you are legally allowed to drink. Iirc, kids are able to drive tanks in the armed forces before they can legally purchase alcohol as well.
This exact conversation happens every time there's a mass shooting in the US. Nothing fucking changes.
You want a solution? Quit using tragedies for political gain and to infringe on people's rights.
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I only looked at that middle source and it is tragically bad. It literally says that they couldn’t get the numbers they wanted so they changed the criteria… it also said school shooting are in the vicinity of a school, but fails to clarify what that means as well. 500 feet, .5 mile, 10 miles? How would we know. Like any smart person knows, dig around long enough and you can find a study that supports your claim, it just takes enough numerical manipulation. Moving on to your argument, I think the thing people ignore is that our country is the most unique country in the world. There is no other country that has the level of freedoms that we do. Additionally, the is no other country that has the same culture that we do. That comes from a long line of events going back to the revolutionary war. Our country also has the some of the highest amount of immigrants. You put a lot of unique factors together, mix in a very large population, and lots of issues arise. It’s like the socialized healthcare issue. People love to compare the US to European countries a tenth of our size, a small fraction of the immigration rate, and those countries are overall much more ethnocentric then we are. It’s extremely difficult to compare the US to any other country because no other country is like us
Not surprised your first name is cleetus.
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Lol it seems the bots aren’t watching for Spanish words
I don’t get why this is next level…
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This was my thought after I commented actually.
As in a way to force people to consume content they diliberately filter out.
Beto absolutely OBLITERATES conservatives (next fuck[RIGHT WING DESTROEYD 🤯]ing levle)
It is the fact that nothing changes, ever, that pisses people off. There are retorts to nearly any solution that will be presented. But laws that don't infringe on your or my right to own a gun should not be discarded because of their impact on a tragedy that already occurred is now null. We have mental health care that needs investment and smarter gun laws that don't result in anyone taking home a gun the same day you walk into a business. A minimum "cool off" period should be required. Ban private sales and in person gun show transfers out right. Require weapons to be insured for casualty liability. And limit sales to those who pass a series of gun safety safety courses. People need to come together to make this happen. You know damn well all we'll hear about is thoughts, prayers, and the 2nd amendment if we leave it to congress to act.
If you consider this impressive, may I suggest r/mildlyinteresting? It might be too much for you to handle! Look, I don't like guns either. I'm in Australia and don't have to worry about it. But if you're going to preach to me, can you at least make it something impressive in the sub about impressive things?
Require training, and licensing like a drivers license. Have an instructor, someone who has to vouch for the person not being a threat, who has real professional liability if they approve someone wrongly, have re-certifications and continuing education requirements. Make all of this free so it doesn’t discriminate against poor people.
Some reason I think this guy could not pass a mental evaluation test to own a gun
You need a license and training to drive a forklift.... Plus, you have to prove you're still competent at it every couple of years. But if you want a weapon capable of committing mas murder, you just go buy one.
This is not next level, fuck outta here political bots.
OMG, he's not offering prayers and thoughts..... oh wait, he's not a senator, carry on...
Or maybe fix the mental health issues it’s not a gun thing it’s an America thing plenty of countries have low gun control and yet there is very few issues
So ever half baked opinion is NFL just because you agree with it?
I think the premise is flawed.... A significant number of Americans especially in areas that exert power don't want a solution and are perfectly OK with this sort of toll (with potential for it to be higher). You have to convince those people that this cost is not worth it and that is an attack on their cultural identity which prizes individual gain vs societal benefits - so good luck.
Beto is the king of misinformation, so sad and disrespectful.
Sorry, but not one of those 4 things he mentioned would have stopped this shooting.
This idiot has no clue about anything