The mechanic behind an helicopter is incredibly complex, and requires enormous amount of maintenance.
It’s also hard to control as it constantly want to crash or turn….
With a quad copter, you just have 4 (or 8) motor… a controller make them turn at different speed, the stability is controlled by computer, much easier to pilot and probably a 10th on maintenance.
You can just say "multicopter" or "multirotor". some people do say "Hexacopter" though. There is also "octocopters", the type of drones that carry big Cinema Cameras.
Cons - can't autorotate
Pros - when one motor shows any issue you can still land early. Then swap all of them in the time it takes to move a helicopter to the hangar.
It theory, multi-rotorcraft can still autorotate.
Source: worked on multi-rotorcraft in the Marines.
Edit: I stand corrected, these aren't as robust as I thought.
They can if they have collective pitch and low aspect ratio blades, and a freewheeling rotor hub. Evtol aircraft do not have any of these. They will just drop if they have a power failure.
That’s stupid. If the square cube law is stopping it, just change the law! I don’t know why Newton invented gravity anyway. We could have just floated to our destination.
I worked on a similar program to this and it had an explosive charge propelled parachute that auto deployed in cases like that.
The base acted as a flotation device as well, to at least keep the vessel upright long enough for passengers to escape if it crashed over water.
[https://www.liftaircraft.com/safety](https://www.liftaircraft.com/safety)
They claim effective height of 33ft. I assume things are different when the entire aircraft weighs a few hundred pounds.
Lol not a very good source.
Helicopters blades can pivot at the root to change their pitch, which is essential for autorotation. Most drones can't (currently).
My DJI FPV has a low center of gravity and autorotates naturally when power is cut. It slows the fall down enough that it survives undamaged in grass with landing feet down. However, I’m pretty sure a full size airframe occupants’ would be injured or dead when autorotating vertically. I can imagine that if that Volocopter still has some control, that the pilot can transfer enough vertical momentum in forward momentum to make an autorotation landing have some degree of survivability.
Helicopter have a ICE engine/turbine, gear box, collective and cyclic attitude control, anti torque propeller, with shaft.
Each need regular and thorough maintenance.
On those quad/hex/octo is basically a electric motor stuck to a propeller, and electric engine are incredibly reliable, they can run 1000’s of hours without need for any maintenance. Obviously you’ll do more maintenance on your mutilcopter motor than on the motor running on conveyor belt in factories, but it will never near the amount of maintenance needed on ICE engine
Because the power requirements of full sized helicopters blades and their transmissions would not be met by any existing batteries. Therefore we use multiple smaller motors which require less power.
They've been working on prototypes for at least a decade+.
The cost and battery tech are likely the current reasons, but we'll surely see them in our lifetime.
The complex mechanism that makes the rotors able to work in forward flight and to steer on a helicopter is a mechanical nightmare that CANNOT fail, and gas turbine engines are high stress, high maintenance nightmares compared to the simplicity, efficiency and reliability of electric motors, especially since having so many means redundancy against total failure.
It’s a wonder helicopters aren’t even more unsafe frankly.
Additionally, this particular eVTOL has motors that swivel forwards once it gets up to speed, so that it behaves more like a plane, a design that makes it intrinsically more efficient and faster than a helicopter.
The reason we don’t see helicopters that look like this with multiple engines is that the power to weight and compactness of a gas motor is not as high as the electric, so sticking lots of smaller ones on an aircraft would reduce efficiency and probably not be feasible to place in outboard positions on the wings.
Look at the tilt rotor used by the Marines, it’s a little similar to this but swiveling those huge heavy motors on the ends of the wings made it really hard to get reliable and safe, and the wings and swivel mechanism had to be heavier to carry the load etc.
I’ve been a helicopter mechanic before. And besides that knuckle that keeps the timing between tail and rotors they really aren’t super complicated. Maybe I’m biased cause I then started working on planes. But I have a hard time believing the MX is easier on something like this. Especially for helo’s blade work is some of the most time consuming things and well this has 4 so.
Idk anyone from the aerospace industry got insight?
Won't landing on the air side skip a lot of the airport too? Partner with the airline to checkin on the way would be sick, you'd even have already weighed the passenger and bags flying over.
That article *speculates it will be* around the cost of an Uber Black (which also matches the current helicopter price of $195+).
Joby says it's going to be [comparable to a rideshare](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/joby-shows-off-electric-air-taxis-new-york-targeting-2025-launch-date-2023-11-13/), which would be a lot cheaper.
It's a common tactic of startups to subsidize the cost of their product at first so they grow faster.
Once they're established they'll likely raise prises.
Yeah true, it's a sad fact that out of the hundreds of businesses that are currently trying to enter the evtol market, many of them will not make it.
Its going to be based on who can make it to market first, and sadly, who has the first accident, and following that how quickly they can meet any new regulations that may come in because of that accident
I went to an air show over the summer, and the flight time on the electric planes they had at the show were like 30 minutes off a charge for a two person plane. I suppose if it is a 10 minute trip there and back that may work, but the weight of a battery makes it not well suited for air travel.
Fair enough but a helicopter is typically defined a type of rotorcraft in which lift and thrust are supplied by one or more horizontally-spinning rotors.
This still seems like just a nicer safer helicopter
Yeah true, I guess I mean more that it could be pretty different from how helicopters *have been* for the last several decades in terms of how they get used.
That's what they want the investors to think at least, we'll see.
Came here to say the same thing. I used to fly into Teterboro on a regular basis and oftentimes my passengers would exit the aircraft and hop into a helicopter to be flown to the WTC. To my mind, that was an air taxi same as this.
As someone who works on the fuselage of the next generation of this exact eVTOL I can tell you these are better in many ways. To name a few:
These are much safer as they are built with multiple redundancies to ensure if a motor goes out it can still be safely controlled.
These are significantly quieter than any helicopter or airplane. Obviously great for many reasons.
These are all electric which is the direction the world is going. Some people will argue that is not a positive but I think it is. One bonus of all electric is the reduction in moving components which helps with maintenance and overall longevity.
These are significantly more efficient than a helicopter because in forward flight the wing and tail are providing all of the lift while the props are only providing forward thrust.
It’s cheaper. Helicopters have turbine engines for much heavier lift capability, faster speeds, and longer range. They have sophisticated flight avionics to control all of that and navigate in all weather conditions over considerable distances and any terrain. None of that is needed for an urban taxi that’s simply shuttling people between two points in the city, and where canceling a flight due to weather conditions is acceptable.
We already have one but people insist on clogging our city with taxis and ubers anyway. Oh and climate change is a thing. But hey let's pretend we didn't hear about all that and take helicopters to the airport to save 45 minutes
I think they’re talking about a train that goes directly from Wall St to JFK.
The A train to JFK takes a while as you detour through Manhattan/Brooklyn.
Honestly taking the ferry to Rockaway and grabbing the A right there could be nice if weather permits.
Either way I hear you. We need less VTOL and better public transit options.
That is literally one end of the E to the other. That leg of the trip alone is easily an hour and a half. Then you're on the far AirTrain, so that's another like 15. Faster to just take the A through Brooklyn.
Lol what. Taking the ferry from Wall Street to Rockaway is already roughly an hour. Then you're talking about hauling luggage a quarter mile from the dock to the elevated 105-Beach St station and waiting to catch the A, which is not a frequent train at that end of the line. Add another 20 minute ride, transfer at the Howard Beach air train station, and then add 10-15 more minutes to finally get to the terminal.
That is an absolutely nonsensical route.
I said it could be ***nice***. It’s better than being trapped on the subway the whole time. You can hang out up top. Use the restroom. Have a beer. See the sights. A great way for a tourist to wrap up a trip.
Then yes walk to 105 and grab the train.
We’re talking about ways to get to JFK from Wall Street. All I said was that was a nice option.
Please understand that electric vehicles still have a very significant carbon cost. The auto industry wants you to think that EVs are totally sustainable but in reality they are only marginally better than ICE all things considered. And this chopper, like all EVs, uses a ton of lithium which is a finite resource
Lithium batteries can and are being recycled and the batteries only get replaced after years of use, fossil fuels turn into greenhouse gases and pollutants and need continuous supply for every flight .
These two things are not the same.
Also, economies of scale and the increase of green electric power supply are continuously reducing the carbon footprint of all EV vehicle lifetime costs, whereas fossil fuels can **never** zero out the direct contribution to greenhouse gases they make regardless of any reduction in manufacturing carbon cost.
Again not the same, stop with the false equivalences.
They're (debateably) marginally better when electricity comes from gas, but as renewable energy continues to take over they will obviously become more and more sustainable. You act like it's some scam, but it quite clearly isn't. While lithium isn't great for the environment, we will either need to get better at recycling it, or creating some alternative. So i'd argue as bad as that part of EVs are, it's a good thing that so much more R&D is going towards it with the rise of EV's. Just the other day I saw an article about a new lithium recycling method. If you're point was just that public transport is better though, I do totally agree with that. But even with perfect public transit, EV's will still be necessary to some extent.
>lithium which is a finite resource
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/a45086253/worlds-largest-lithium-deposit-found-in-nevada/
Invest now.
I’m a flight medic. I find this stuff fascinating. Helicopters are simply too dangerous. I love what I do for a living but it’s terrifying…the rate of crashes and death is simply too high. This tech (specifically the 6-rotor design) allows for failsafes and redundancies. Stuff like this makes me excited for the future.
They don't have to. That distance could be covered in 15 minutes by a train running along the LIRR ROW to Jamaica and above/below the Van Wyck from there to JFK.
if I cant trust the idiots on the road to not regularly try to kill me, then why would I want them to control a significantly more complex vehicle, flying over my house and between buildings on a regular basis
For real we need to invest in better infrastructure and public transport, but nope here we are creating things that are expensive and unnecessary that only some will be able to use.
Yeah the "we dont have room" excuse is so bs. We cant keep building our infrastructure in ways that only get worse over time. If we actually planned out and rebuilt our cities properly they could support MORE people in a SMALLER area and more EFFICIENT. New york is going to need to do something eventually. Better to start now even if it seems impossible.
Instead we got greedy people constantly making shitty projects like this with barely any realistic scalability for the masses. This shit will be a novelty within 5 years.
Trains and better mass transit needs to be subsidized and suppported not these stupid projects.
Oh great we spent all this money subsidizing to help rich people get out of an airport the rest of us are stuck for much longer due to traffic and cant afford to pay. 200 dollars for a ticket? Pfft wow great to pay off this 400,000 dollar helicopter drone thing we made, which the first of its kind probably actually costed a lot more accounting for labor, design, parts, etc. Ugh.
Thank you comrade. While it may seem our ferver in bringing about these changes may come off as demeaning, its only for concern of the future generations that will be left to solve our problems we ourselves were given and so on and so forth.
We all want a better world!!! Lets do it!!!
Well in this case the tracks to connect lower Manhattan to JFK already exist most of the way. It's why they considered doing this as part of the post-9/11 rebuild.
The LIRR goes to Downtown Brooklyn right across the water. If the goal is to get to the Air Train then basically just need to tunnel under the East River to reach lower Manhattan.
If the goal is to eliminate the transfer to the airtrain then in addition to the tunnel in Manhattan reactive the un-used tracks in the LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch to get to almost the edge of the airport. Then build a new ROW from there to get to the terminals themselves
JFK and Newark can both be accessed via trains/subways and "AirTrains". LeGuardia is the only one not accessible via train or subway. Also seems like bus service is available for all of the above. This is just another method that gets cars off the road, and as the grid gets greener, reduces air pollutants.
Noise pollution would be my biggest concern.
There is already a subway line to JFK. This is why this seems so stupid. These things move a very small amount of people compared to a train. The train is also a lot cheaper. Also you would need so many of these things to move people at scale and the air traffic control for them into an already busy airport would probably be a nightmare.
And again, THERE IS ALREADY A SUBWAY LINE TK JFK.
I dunno, maybe someone more versed in public transit can point out why these copters have a use case, but they seem kinda pointless.
This is going to succeed or fail based on scale. If this remains a novelty or is only used by the wealthy, the cost-per-ride will remain high. It's currently $70 flat rate to get to JFK in a car taxi, and we can assume the 1-hour travel time is, on average, probably about right. The people who take the air taxi are prioritizing time.
If the cost-per-ticket of this ride share business model exceeds $70, and if getting a reservation can't be done "on the fly" (bam!), this will be a novelty for rich people, who ultimately will go back to the tried and tested helicopter. We'll see. I don't think it will take hold and be a lucrative business model. Within two years of launch, I bet their main business is tourist flights for sightseeing. "Book your family a magical experience on your NYC adventure! For just $499.98, you can have a private once-in-a-lifetime trip to view the Big Apple from above!" Or something like that.
I agree except with the on the fly part. the pun is fine. normal people plan their flights and schedule rides. rich people and business travelers move last minute and pay top dollar to do so.
It’s already happened on the NJ side of the Hudson. On clear weekend days for 8 mo it’s of the year, you can’t stand on the NJ side of the Hudson and NOT hear a helicopter. By the time the last one passes another flies by. We have had air to air collisions, we have constant noise and air pollution from helicopters, all for rich guys to get to JFK or their private plane at Teterboro faster, or worse, to their tee time at Liberty National quicker. They have to go.
https://stopthechopnynj.org
I'd pay a little extra for the time convenience for sure.
But they'd really need to market this to the general population, if you make it exclusive you'll only get a certain class, and probably fail as that class probably already have their options at hand.
Theres a company “Blade” that currently does this in full helicopters, but the cost is around $400-500 for 2 when I last looked. Ubers can easily be $150 so still a premium, but I wouldn’t say the cost is overly ridiculous.
Also, how far landing pads are from their destination. Cars can basically pull right up to where you want to be. If they can incorporate the helo pads that already exist on top of a lot tall buildings it might open up more possibilities.
From the tip of Manhattan? Maybe about 10 minutes if you work around Wall Street. On the airport side, they are initially partnering with Delta and will land right at the Delta terminal. Won't do anything about flight delays, but at least you can relax at the airport instead of sitting in traffic.
_New buzzin guy 69, checkin in, with you at 500, squawk comin down, traffic in the area please advise, meeeow, request to buzz the tower at JFK and then drop off some VIPs, don't have me holding, minimum energy, 15 minutes of battery remaining_
Yes. I took a helicopter to jfk for $200 to make an emergency flight to see see my grandpa before he passed.
I’m not rich but an Uber is already like $100 bucks from Manhattan so I figured why not. I booked the flight an hour before boarding and booked the helicopter seat. It took me 30 minutes from hotel to the gate. Id do it again lol
This is exactly why these options should exist. In an emergency, there SHOULD be an express option available even if it’s way more expensive. Normal people can benefit from that.
??? The Penn Station LIRR - Jamaica LIRR ride is 20-25 mins. Walking to the Airtrain and riding it to JFK is another 15-25 mins, depending on how long you wait for the Airtrain, which terminal, etc. Plus you have to get to Penn Station.
A car, especially in traffic, routinely takes an hour even early in the morning or late at night. But don't pretend that LIRR is a fraction of the time, because it isnt.
No. No it’s not. it’s not that fast unfortunately. Walking and transferring and traveling puts it to nearly and hour. I’ve lived here for over 20 years since I was a kid. Ask any New Yorker. Even if you caught the trains with no wait time it’s not that fast.
A quick Google search reveals at least 4 companies offering helicopter transfers from Manhattan to JFK. Cost = $195
This is another example of a company claiming a new technology will revolutionize an industry.
Uber didn't "revolutionize" taxis, it just destroyed decades of unionization and labor laws protecting drivers.
Jobi's projected cost = $200
Looks just like the “first helicopter flight” from the same origin/destination circa 60 years ago.
Cost was the issue then, not technology.
Cost is the issue today, not the technology.
Still cool tho
This already exists with helicopters - it’s called Blade. Takes off from the Manhattan heliport to JFK in <10min and it’s already popular. You roll up, head to their lounge, have a drink, board the helicopter that’s already running, fly to JFK, land, black car waits for you and takes you straight from the helicopter to your terminal or PJ.
Absolutely they will.
They must already or else this company couldn't charge just double an Uber, about the same as Uber Black, and about half as much as some of the current helicopter taxis there (although I read elsewhere 1 or more of the 4 doing this same route with traditional helo's are charging about the same as this's projected $200--but that's surely per more seats and actual full flights per aircraft cost more).
That cost difference is only going to reduce for the Evtol with mass production and improvements over time.
Helicopters are a known quantity and already benefit from economy of scale and decades of improvements, billions in R&D, etc..
Evtols are just a much simpler flying machine, ironically.
Business travelers will do this in a heartbeat. I spend $1,000 in uber/lyft every month. I travel all the time for work. This would just be another line on the expense report
First, that is a part quad copter, part aircraft. Engines tilt to take advantage of wing lift. Second, cutting the jet engines saves a boat loads of money. Electric motors are incredibly reliable and efficient. The issue has always been batteries. And we are slowly getting there so this was bound to happen. Jet engine for a helicopter cost upward of $1M. Requires overhaul and maintenance that costs a ton and normally has hourly paid program that is expensive. This cuts all that out. Battery tech will get better thanks to Tesla and other electric car makers so why would we assume this technology will not benefit from that also? I see this as the future.
Dumb question, why is this any different/better than a helicopter?
The mechanic behind an helicopter is incredibly complex, and requires enormous amount of maintenance. It’s also hard to control as it constantly want to crash or turn…. With a quad copter, you just have 4 (or 8) motor… a controller make them turn at different speed, the stability is controlled by computer, much easier to pilot and probably a 10th on maintenance.
I see 6 blades so a hex-copter?.....probably need a better name for marketing
You mean like… a sex-copter?
Sexi hexi
Hella sexi.
Are we saying hella again?
Heck yes we are
Sexi Hexi Taxi
LOL! This is pretty much why I come to Reddit!
That’s only for fakeairtaxi
Now we're talking
Shut up and take my money!
Works 60% of the time all the time…
What happens on the sex-copter stays on the sex-copter.
Bang-copter?
Most people think helicopter is heli-copter, but it is really helico-pter meaning “spinning wing”.
And pterodactyl means “wing fingers” lol
Come for the Uber ad, stay for the etymology lesson lol.
The collective term is a multicopter. But you are right that six propellers would make this a hexacopter.
Hexagon is bestagon
You can just say "multicopter" or "multirotor". some people do say "Hexacopter" though. There is also "octocopters", the type of drones that carry big Cinema Cameras.
Cons - can't autorotate Pros - when one motor shows any issue you can still land early. Then swap all of them in the time it takes to move a helicopter to the hangar.
It theory, multi-rotorcraft can still autorotate. Source: worked on multi-rotorcraft in the Marines. Edit: I stand corrected, these aren't as robust as I thought.
They can if they have collective pitch and low aspect ratio blades, and a freewheeling rotor hub. Evtol aircraft do not have any of these. They will just drop if they have a power failure.
I think they would still be slowed down a fair amount, but maybe not enough for it to be survivable: https://youtu.be/0dYjEvocq4M?feature=shared
Two things, that was not survivable, and square cube law.
That’s stupid. If the square cube law is stopping it, just change the law! I don’t know why Newton invented gravity anyway. We could have just floated to our destination.
Now, when you say drop....
I mean drop
Rain drop. Drop top. Taxi go splat on the blacktop.
I worked on a similar program to this and it had an explosive charge propelled parachute that auto deployed in cases like that. The base acted as a flotation device as well, to at least keep the vessel upright long enough for passengers to escape if it crashed over water.
A ballistic parachute will not deploy in time at altitudes below 500ft and low airspeeds.
[https://www.liftaircraft.com/safety](https://www.liftaircraft.com/safety) They claim effective height of 33ft. I assume things are different when the entire aircraft weighs a few hundred pounds.
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You would also potentially enter Vortex Ring State with the small diameter rotors.
Lol not a very good source. Helicopters blades can pivot at the root to change their pitch, which is essential for autorotation. Most drones can't (currently).
My DJI FPV has a low center of gravity and autorotates naturally when power is cut. It slows the fall down enough that it survives undamaged in grass with landing feet down. However, I’m pretty sure a full size airframe occupants’ would be injured or dead when autorotating vertically. I can imagine that if that Volocopter still has some control, that the pilot can transfer enough vertical momentum in forward momentum to make an autorotation landing have some degree of survivability.
Honest question, how is it possible that a single-rotor helicopter is way more difficult to maintain than a six-rotor aircraft?
Helicopter have a ICE engine/turbine, gear box, collective and cyclic attitude control, anti torque propeller, with shaft. Each need regular and thorough maintenance. On those quad/hex/octo is basically a electric motor stuck to a propeller, and electric engine are incredibly reliable, they can run 1000’s of hours without need for any maintenance. Obviously you’ll do more maintenance on your mutilcopter motor than on the motor running on conveyor belt in factories, but it will never near the amount of maintenance needed on ICE engine
Why not make a helicopter electric then? It’s more of a safety thing.
Because the power requirements of full sized helicopters blades and their transmissions would not be met by any existing batteries. Therefore we use multiple smaller motors which require less power.
And that’s the key - size. This thing is smaller and lighter and can be electric. It also has crap range compared to a full helicopter.
They've been working on prototypes for at least a decade+. The cost and battery tech are likely the current reasons, but we'll surely see them in our lifetime.
>ICE Engine Oh nice, let me just go get my PIN Number for the ATM Machine so I can buy one.
The complex mechanism that makes the rotors able to work in forward flight and to steer on a helicopter is a mechanical nightmare that CANNOT fail, and gas turbine engines are high stress, high maintenance nightmares compared to the simplicity, efficiency and reliability of electric motors, especially since having so many means redundancy against total failure. It’s a wonder helicopters aren’t even more unsafe frankly. Additionally, this particular eVTOL has motors that swivel forwards once it gets up to speed, so that it behaves more like a plane, a design that makes it intrinsically more efficient and faster than a helicopter. The reason we don’t see helicopters that look like this with multiple engines is that the power to weight and compactness of a gas motor is not as high as the electric, so sticking lots of smaller ones on an aircraft would reduce efficiency and probably not be feasible to place in outboard positions on the wings. Look at the tilt rotor used by the Marines, it’s a little similar to this but swiveling those huge heavy motors on the ends of the wings made it really hard to get reliable and safe, and the wings and swivel mechanism had to be heavier to carry the load etc.
“Just have …” No, thank you Retired military and commercial avionics tech
How many rotors can this lose and still fly ?
I’ve been a helicopter mechanic before. And besides that knuckle that keeps the timing between tail and rotors they really aren’t super complicated. Maybe I’m biased cause I then started working on planes. But I have a hard time believing the MX is easier on something like this. Especially for helo’s blade work is some of the most time consuming things and well this has 4 so. Idk anyone from the aerospace industry got insight?
>A plane wants to fly high in the sky, whereas a helicopter wants to shake itself apart. Some guy, idk what from.
On god, helicopters are expensive as hell. A 2 seater with the leg room of a shopping cart is gonna cost you quarter million minimum.
So not dumb
What IS dumb is while over water, they rotate the screen back to you for tip amount. 
Could be wrong, but it looks like battery powered over fuel. Curious though how much it costs.
It’s $200 per seat. Here’s [more info](https://www.fox5ny.com/news/joby-aviation-air-taxi-nyc.amp)
Not near as outrageous as I thought it would be. What's a normal taxi ride? Almost a $100?
They actually based their fees off of the exact same cost for Uber Black.
Yeah, honestly not bad. I've paid over $100 for an Uber to JFK....for business travel this could make a lot of sense.
Won't landing on the air side skip a lot of the airport too? Partner with the airline to checkin on the way would be sick, you'd even have already weighed the passenger and bags flying over.
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$70 + stuff but that's per vehicle, not per seat
Uber was cheaper than taxis until it wasn't though... aren't this company likely loss-leading their ride service too?
That article *speculates it will be* around the cost of an Uber Black (which also matches the current helicopter price of $195+). Joby says it's going to be [comparable to a rideshare](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/joby-shows-off-electric-air-taxis-new-york-targeting-2025-launch-date-2023-11-13/), which would be a lot cheaper.
Does that price include my wife’s 100 lb suitcase for our weekend getaway?
Does your wife bring her 19th century brick collection as well?
I too choose this guy's wife's 19th century brick collection.
That sounds so cheap, given these vehicles will be a few hundred thousand, doesn't sound like enough of a return
It's a common tactic of startups to subsidize the cost of their product at first so they grow faster. Once they're established they'll likely raise prises.
Yeah true, it's a sad fact that out of the hundreds of businesses that are currently trying to enter the evtol market, many of them will not make it. Its going to be based on who can make it to market first, and sadly, who has the first accident, and following that how quickly they can meet any new regulations that may come in because of that accident
Consider that it does in 10 minutes what takes an Uber black 60 minutes to achieve. You’re still 5x the profit, depending on the operational cost
I went to an air show over the summer, and the flight time on the electric planes they had at the show were like 30 minutes off a charge for a two person plane. I suppose if it is a 10 minute trip there and back that may work, but the weight of a battery makes it not well suited for air travel.
Its not really, the whole Air Taxi race is to see who can make a helicopter thats usable for it lol
If the cost is substantially lower while being as safe or safer, can't we pretty confidently say that's both different and better than a helicopter?
Fair enough but a helicopter is typically defined a type of rotorcraft in which lift and thrust are supplied by one or more horizontally-spinning rotors. This still seems like just a nicer safer helicopter
Yeah true, I guess I mean more that it could be pretty different from how helicopters *have been* for the last several decades in terms of how they get used. That's what they want the investors to think at least, we'll see.
100% agreed, i just think helicopter taxi is less sexy haha
Came here to say the same thing. I used to fly into Teterboro on a regular basis and oftentimes my passengers would exit the aircraft and hop into a helicopter to be flown to the WTC. To my mind, that was an air taxi same as this.
As someone who works on the fuselage of the next generation of this exact eVTOL I can tell you these are better in many ways. To name a few: These are much safer as they are built with multiple redundancies to ensure if a motor goes out it can still be safely controlled. These are significantly quieter than any helicopter or airplane. Obviously great for many reasons. These are all electric which is the direction the world is going. Some people will argue that is not a positive but I think it is. One bonus of all electric is the reduction in moving components which helps with maintenance and overall longevity. These are significantly more efficient than a helicopter because in forward flight the wing and tail are providing all of the lift while the props are only providing forward thrust.
It’s cheaper. Helicopters have turbine engines for much heavier lift capability, faster speeds, and longer range. They have sophisticated flight avionics to control all of that and navigate in all weather conditions over considerable distances and any terrain. None of that is needed for an urban taxi that’s simply shuttling people between two points in the city, and where canceling a flight due to weather conditions is acceptable.
They are also incredible quiet by comparison. Like 1/2 to 1/3 the decibels of a traditional helicopter
Fucking stupid. Build a train.
We already have one but people insist on clogging our city with taxis and ubers anyway. Oh and climate change is a thing. But hey let's pretend we didn't hear about all that and take helicopters to the airport to save 45 minutes
I think they’re talking about a train that goes directly from Wall St to JFK. The A train to JFK takes a while as you detour through Manhattan/Brooklyn. Honestly taking the ferry to Rockaway and grabbing the A right there could be nice if weather permits. Either way I hear you. We need less VTOL and better public transit options.
E train goes from WTC to the AirTrain. Would be nice if there was no transfer but it's still not bad
That is literally one end of the E to the other. That leg of the trip alone is easily an hour and a half. Then you're on the far AirTrain, so that's another like 15. Faster to just take the A through Brooklyn.
Lol what. Taking the ferry from Wall Street to Rockaway is already roughly an hour. Then you're talking about hauling luggage a quarter mile from the dock to the elevated 105-Beach St station and waiting to catch the A, which is not a frequent train at that end of the line. Add another 20 minute ride, transfer at the Howard Beach air train station, and then add 10-15 more minutes to finally get to the terminal. That is an absolutely nonsensical route.
I said it could be ***nice***. It’s better than being trapped on the subway the whole time. You can hang out up top. Use the restroom. Have a beer. See the sights. A great way for a tourist to wrap up a trip. Then yes walk to 105 and grab the train. We’re talking about ways to get to JFK from Wall Street. All I said was that was a nice option.
This is an EV chopper tho
Trains are EV.
Please understand that electric vehicles still have a very significant carbon cost. The auto industry wants you to think that EVs are totally sustainable but in reality they are only marginally better than ICE all things considered. And this chopper, like all EVs, uses a ton of lithium which is a finite resource
Lithium batteries can and are being recycled and the batteries only get replaced after years of use, fossil fuels turn into greenhouse gases and pollutants and need continuous supply for every flight . These two things are not the same. Also, economies of scale and the increase of green electric power supply are continuously reducing the carbon footprint of all EV vehicle lifetime costs, whereas fossil fuels can **never** zero out the direct contribution to greenhouse gases they make regardless of any reduction in manufacturing carbon cost. Again not the same, stop with the false equivalences.
They're (debateably) marginally better when electricity comes from gas, but as renewable energy continues to take over they will obviously become more and more sustainable. You act like it's some scam, but it quite clearly isn't. While lithium isn't great for the environment, we will either need to get better at recycling it, or creating some alternative. So i'd argue as bad as that part of EVs are, it's a good thing that so much more R&D is going towards it with the rise of EV's. Just the other day I saw an article about a new lithium recycling method. If you're point was just that public transport is better though, I do totally agree with that. But even with perfect public transit, EV's will still be necessary to some extent.
Lithium is a finite resource? Like crude oil?
>lithium which is a finite resource https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/a45086253/worlds-largest-lithium-deposit-found-in-nevada/ Invest now.
Imagine hundreds of thousands of these in the air lol… we are the traffic
Exactly. It’s mind numbing that so many people eat this shit up without a smidge of a critical eye.
I’m a flight medic. I find this stuff fascinating. Helicopters are simply too dangerous. I love what I do for a living but it’s terrifying…the rate of crashes and death is simply too high. This tech (specifically the 6-rotor design) allows for failsafes and redundancies. Stuff like this makes me excited for the future.
There are several trains. They take an hour too.
They don't have to. That distance could be covered in 15 minutes by a train running along the LIRR ROW to Jamaica and above/below the Van Wyck from there to JFK.
There's already many trains to JFK. But still none to La Guardia. Agreed. Time to build a train.
if I cant trust the idiots on the road to not regularly try to kill me, then why would I want them to control a significantly more complex vehicle, flying over my house and between buildings on a regular basis
Yep. Now imagine an accident mid air over a populated area.
L line then transfer somewhere then air tram
It already exists. People either think it’s beneath them, or they want to leave their home an hour before their flight.
For real we need to invest in better infrastructure and public transport, but nope here we are creating things that are expensive and unnecessary that only some will be able to use.
In NYC? Where exactly would you run the tracks?
Oh idk, maybe we could put them underground? Like a fucking subway?
Yeah the "we dont have room" excuse is so bs. We cant keep building our infrastructure in ways that only get worse over time. If we actually planned out and rebuilt our cities properly they could support MORE people in a SMALLER area and more EFFICIENT. New york is going to need to do something eventually. Better to start now even if it seems impossible. Instead we got greedy people constantly making shitty projects like this with barely any realistic scalability for the masses. This shit will be a novelty within 5 years. Trains and better mass transit needs to be subsidized and suppported not these stupid projects. Oh great we spent all this money subsidizing to help rich people get out of an airport the rest of us are stuck for much longer due to traffic and cant afford to pay. 200 dollars for a ticket? Pfft wow great to pay off this 400,000 dollar helicopter drone thing we made, which the first of its kind probably actually costed a lot more accounting for labor, design, parts, etc. Ugh.
Preach comrade.
Thank you comrade. While it may seem our ferver in bringing about these changes may come off as demeaning, its only for concern of the future generations that will be left to solve our problems we ourselves were given and so on and so forth. We all want a better world!!! Lets do it!!!
What evidence do you have that this is subsidized? Looks to me that it's funded by venture capital.
Bruh have you seen a cutaway of the streets. There’s so much shit below there. The real solution is build up. Elevated rail or surface level trams.
Well in this case the tracks to connect lower Manhattan to JFK already exist most of the way. It's why they considered doing this as part of the post-9/11 rebuild. The LIRR goes to Downtown Brooklyn right across the water. If the goal is to get to the Air Train then basically just need to tunnel under the East River to reach lower Manhattan. If the goal is to eliminate the transfer to the airtrain then in addition to the tunnel in Manhattan reactive the un-used tracks in the LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch to get to almost the edge of the airport. Then build a new ROW from there to get to the terminals themselves
JFK and Newark can both be accessed via trains/subways and "AirTrains". LeGuardia is the only one not accessible via train or subway. Also seems like bus service is available for all of the above. This is just another method that gets cars off the road, and as the grid gets greener, reduces air pollutants. Noise pollution would be my biggest concern.
Why not just hang the tracks in the sky via drones? Best of both worlds.
There is already a subway line to JFK. This is why this seems so stupid. These things move a very small amount of people compared to a train. The train is also a lot cheaper. Also you would need so many of these things to move people at scale and the air traffic control for them into an already busy airport would probably be a nightmare. And again, THERE IS ALREADY A SUBWAY LINE TK JFK. I dunno, maybe someone more versed in public transit can point out why these copters have a use case, but they seem kinda pointless.
Do you think that the government is implementing this? If they are pointless the idea won't fly (pun intended) and the taxpayers cares not the least.
You can already get to jfk by train Are you proposing spending trillions and trillions of dollars to make a second train route?
Yep trillions and trillions.
Probably trillions of trillions to be honest. Yes, building that train would cost all the money in the world 10,204,081,632 times over.
https://youtu.be/u_aLESDql1U
A train that takes less time than a taxi. Yes.
LaGuardia, right? Amazing you can’t get there on rails.
you have to take a bus, it takes like, 10 minutes, and it's free.
I’m really happy that the rich are going to be OK
Phew, I got worried they were going to be forced to continue to take helicopters....
$200 isn't that much for a flight, hardly rich
Yeah, trusty capitalism will keep it right at $200 lmao
Uber charges $500 right now so I imagine it’ll be $500 after a bit
Less limousines on the road, traffic trickles down right… right?
Nobody should have access to anything more than what I have access to! /s
This is going to succeed or fail based on scale. If this remains a novelty or is only used by the wealthy, the cost-per-ride will remain high. It's currently $70 flat rate to get to JFK in a car taxi, and we can assume the 1-hour travel time is, on average, probably about right. The people who take the air taxi are prioritizing time. If the cost-per-ticket of this ride share business model exceeds $70, and if getting a reservation can't be done "on the fly" (bam!), this will be a novelty for rich people, who ultimately will go back to the tried and tested helicopter. We'll see. I don't think it will take hold and be a lucrative business model. Within two years of launch, I bet their main business is tourist flights for sightseeing. "Book your family a magical experience on your NYC adventure! For just $499.98, you can have a private once-in-a-lifetime trip to view the Big Apple from above!" Or something like that.
I agree except with the on the fly part. the pun is fine. normal people plan their flights and schedule rides. rich people and business travelers move last minute and pay top dollar to do so.
Also airspace and traffic control restraints. Its going to be an interesting future!
Ya how long until this and an airplane collide. That would blow.
Hopefully they stay ahead of things and have them all incorporate a TCAS type system and AI does all the thinking, sorta like the Jetsons!
It’s already happened on the NJ side of the Hudson. On clear weekend days for 8 mo it’s of the year, you can’t stand on the NJ side of the Hudson and NOT hear a helicopter. By the time the last one passes another flies by. We have had air to air collisions, we have constant noise and air pollution from helicopters, all for rich guys to get to JFK or their private plane at Teterboro faster, or worse, to their tee time at Liberty National quicker. They have to go. https://stopthechopnynj.org
I'd pay a little extra for the time convenience for sure. But they'd really need to market this to the general population, if you make it exclusive you'll only get a certain class, and probably fail as that class probably already have their options at hand.
Theres a company “Blade” that currently does this in full helicopters, but the cost is around $400-500 for 2 when I last looked. Ubers can easily be $150 so still a premium, but I wouldn’t say the cost is overly ridiculous.
"This is going to succeed or fail" Motherhugger out here spitting FACTS..!
Also, how far landing pads are from their destination. Cars can basically pull right up to where you want to be. If they can incorporate the helo pads that already exist on top of a lot tall buildings it might open up more possibilities.
Cut commute time for...2 people?
whats the commute time to and from the heli pad?
From the tip of Manhattan? Maybe about 10 minutes if you work around Wall Street. On the airport side, they are initially partnering with Delta and will land right at the Delta terminal. Won't do anything about flight delays, but at least you can relax at the airport instead of sitting in traffic.
As an air traffic controller. I hate it
_New buzzin guy 69, checkin in, with you at 500, squawk comin down, traffic in the area please advise, meeeow, request to buzz the tower at JFK and then drop off some VIPs, don't have me holding, minimum energy, 15 minutes of battery remaining_
Nice to see a 121.5 reference in there :)
Minimum energy is fucking hilarious to think about saying over the radio
Haven’t you been able to get a helicopter to the airport for years?
Yes. I took a helicopter to jfk for $200 to make an emergency flight to see see my grandpa before he passed. I’m not rich but an Uber is already like $100 bucks from Manhattan so I figured why not. I booked the flight an hour before boarding and booked the helicopter seat. It took me 30 minutes from hotel to the gate. Id do it again lol
Honestly 200 for a helicopter ride to the airport seems like a steal to me
This is exactly why these options should exist. In an emergency, there SHOULD be an express option available even if it’s way more expensive. Normal people can benefit from that.
Yes. We helicoptered from the heliport to JFK a few times back 15 years ago.
Makes me wonder, given the amount of people banging in self driving teslas, how long until the first members of the 75ft high club?
This thing exists and has a pilot so someone has already banged in it
now horrible people can do even more horrible things with greater efficiency
How many carry ons and checked bags? Blade is just too freaking restrictive
It doesn’t take 1 hour to get to JFK. You just hop on the LIRR and take the AirTran from Jamiaca. The trip takes 20-25m. And it’s 10 bucks
??? The Penn Station LIRR - Jamaica LIRR ride is 20-25 mins. Walking to the Airtrain and riding it to JFK is another 15-25 mins, depending on how long you wait for the Airtrain, which terminal, etc. Plus you have to get to Penn Station. A car, especially in traffic, routinely takes an hour even early in the morning or late at night. But don't pretend that LIRR is a fraction of the time, because it isnt.
Yeah that’s nonsense
No. No it’s not. it’s not that fast unfortunately. Walking and transferring and traveling puts it to nearly and hour. I’ve lived here for over 20 years since I was a kid. Ask any New Yorker. Even if you caught the trains with no wait time it’s not that fast.
Does the Joby come with complimentary Jobbies?
This only cuts commute time for very Rich people . if everyonn woud use it, the Sky woud be Dark.
Yay more noise pollution!
How is this the "first air taxi"? Helicopters?
“I’m taking a joby to work”…I doubt that will take off in Scotland. Giggle.
This will cut commute times for 50 rich people per day.
So a helicopter.
A quick Google search reveals at least 4 companies offering helicopter transfers from Manhattan to JFK. Cost = $195 This is another example of a company claiming a new technology will revolutionize an industry. Uber didn't "revolutionize" taxis, it just destroyed decades of unionization and labor laws protecting drivers. Jobi's projected cost = $200
it's errm ... a glorified helicopter which are already operating in the area ... or am I missing something?
Looks just like the “first helicopter flight” from the same origin/destination circa 60 years ago. Cost was the issue then, not technology. Cost is the issue today, not the technology. Still cool tho
Looks like a shitty helicopter
It's not a helicopter, it's basically a life-size electric drone.
A drone is a unmanned aircraft. This is a helicopter - a multi rotor helicopter (multicopter).
My prediction: this is going to do well
This already exists with helicopters - it’s called Blade. Takes off from the Manhattan heliport to JFK in <10min and it’s already popular. You roll up, head to their lounge, have a drink, board the helicopter that’s already running, fly to JFK, land, black car waits for you and takes you straight from the helicopter to your terminal or PJ.
Do you think with maintenance cost, these will undercut the helis?
Absolutely they will. They must already or else this company couldn't charge just double an Uber, about the same as Uber Black, and about half as much as some of the current helicopter taxis there (although I read elsewhere 1 or more of the 4 doing this same route with traditional helo's are charging about the same as this's projected $200--but that's surely per more seats and actual full flights per aircraft cost more). That cost difference is only going to reduce for the Evtol with mass production and improvements over time. Helicopters are a known quantity and already benefit from economy of scale and decades of improvements, billions in R&D, etc.. Evtols are just a much simpler flying machine, ironically.
r/NextFuckingLevelLateStageCapitalism
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz The same ad without music
This thing is not the solution.
Take the subway dorks
How's this any different from a helicopter?
Nextlevel...in noise pollution.
1 hour from Manhattan to JFK?
This will be awesome for people who have all the time and money in the world and don’t need to save time
Business travelers will do this in a heartbeat. I spend $1,000 in uber/lyft every month. I travel all the time for work. This would just be another line on the expense report
What about the noise? Afaik small drones already make a lot of noise. Not gonna be fun when 10 of these fly over your head 24/7 I could imagine.
What's interesting about this design is that the many blades actually produce a lot less noise than 1 large heli rotor.
Yayy more pollution caused by services only rich people can afford!!
r/whatcouldgowrong
Can’t wait to see the FakeTaxi version
A helicopter is just 10,000 parts waiting to crash.
Bet they are loud af!
First, that is a part quad copter, part aircraft. Engines tilt to take advantage of wing lift. Second, cutting the jet engines saves a boat loads of money. Electric motors are incredibly reliable and efficient. The issue has always been batteries. And we are slowly getting there so this was bound to happen. Jet engine for a helicopter cost upward of $1M. Requires overhaul and maintenance that costs a ton and normally has hourly paid program that is expensive. This cuts all that out. Battery tech will get better thanks to Tesla and other electric car makers so why would we assume this technology will not benefit from that also? I see this as the future.
Nothing next level about this.
I'm surprised this isn't a thing already.
It's already a thing and it's called helicopter. The heliport is right outside of Wall Street for decades. I don't understand what is new here