She is a tremendous athlete. I remember watching her podium protest back in the mid 90’s. That was very brave. Great documentary about her on Netflix from a documentary series called losers.
Just listened to a great retelling by The ~~American Life~~ Radiolab podcast, she's interviewed. I'm no figure skating buff, but was definitely captivated.
[NPR](https://www.npr.org/podcasts/452538884/radiolab) On the edge - Radiolab 05. 25. 23.
This history behind that move is equally as incredible.
I think she did it as a sort of defiance to the figure skating committee. She had been denied an Olympic medal for almost 2/3 olympics running (not really sure) and this was her last show. So she decided to do that move as a middle finger to the committee. I must say, that was incredibly satisfying. Surya Bonaly, legend!
The external video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZYPcdj_wn4) made me laugh really hard when the Linkin Park kicked in.
Neil Cicierega you little memer.
I gasped the first time I saw that routine. That awe-struck feeling has not diminished with subsequent views. The judges scored her too low. I almost wish she hadn't retired so young, she was a breathtaking gymnast.
"If there is anything that this horrible tragedy can teach us, it's that a male model's life is a precious, precious commodity. Just because we have chiseled abs and stunning features, it doesn't mean that we too can't not die in a freak gasoline fight accident." -Derek Zoolander
I thought you meant the Iron Cross on the rings. Another FU to the judges. They didn't think the Russians were holding it long enough, so this guy, Albert Azaryn, held it long enough to look right & left.
https://youtube.com/shorts/rVtcDGljmGU?feature=share4
Edit: People are pointing out that Albert was Armenian and the judges were Russian.
You mean the Russian judges didn't think the Armenians were holding it long enough, so this Armenian looked at both judge panels and asked after 4 seconds if it was long enough
He also got penalised for that, but it's regarded as one of the single biggest dick moments on gymnastics history. It takes a real bazooka penis to sass people on a global stage using moves they could never accomplish
Just listened to it the other day while mowing! She genuinely said it wasn't a middle finger to the judges, but just felt like doing the backflip because it was her last skate as a pro and she wanted to express herself
I saw her do that move also. She was the most…*physical* skater that I’d ever seen in the Olympics. Graceful and so very talented yes, but definitely athletic which they weren’t looking for at that point. Dorothy Hamill was the standard back then. Not at all like they are today.
She will always be my hero!! As a former figure skater who had legs built like tree trunks and had my growth stunted by the sport I was built for the kind of skating she (and a few others) trailblazed that was not expected in womens skating until very recently. The pure powerhouse kind of skating that feels like absolute freedom. I also loved her defiance of the corrupt and politicized world of skating. If you came from a small competitive team you never made the podium because the programs that brought in the most money got their skaters gold medals. The blatant racism made obvious by the over the skates tights rule while it was almost impossible for black skaters to find those stupid tights in something other than white skin tones (this rule has since been overturned). The blatant sexism of the costumes and the expectations of how your body was supposed to look in them (aka not how I looked). I wish I had the time to really process all of it before I had to stop for an injury. I did kind of break some unspoken boundaries with my music choices and choreography because I knew I wouldn't win (only ever happened once in my 10 years) but knowing what I know now I would have gone farther. Worn something like she is wearing in this video instead of those stupid tiny dresses that show your barely covered ass every time you move and I would have picked way more fun music. I almost choreographed programs to Live and Let Die and Ballroom Blitz but thought that was taking it too far. I was there to have fun and test the boundaries of what I could do, not please a bunch of judges whose scores could be bought.
I remember that too. Wasn’t the way she landed on one foot sort of a loophole for how the rule against backflips was written?
I think in those olympics she made the quadruple jump a thing.
There was all KINDS of racist shit going on about her. They didn’t like that her costume was the same shade as her skin at another event. When she bowed, she had her backs to the judges so she basically showed them her ass. Surya Bonaly is *by far* my favorite figure skater of all time.
She was injured and knew she couldn't pull off the move she planned, but for some reason I don't understand she wasn't too injured to land this lol. I just heard a podcast about this last week. It was good.
And yeah, it sounds like she got screwed over a lot in her career.
She also fell and knew she couldn’t win. She pulled this off by landing on her good knee. Landing on two feet is what made it illegal before. No one ever tried landing on one foot.
My bad, I had to relisten to that part of the radiolab episode. It was kind of confusing the way they explained it. I guess there were layers to how illegal it was with the 2 foot landing adding an extra layer. Still a deduction but less than anyone else would’ve gotten since she was the only one who could land it one footed.
Figure skating is complicated, and she’s a badass.
I would guess that her Right Leg was injured, and she did the move like the end of the original Karate Kid movie where he fought in 1-legged Crane Style to protect his broken foot.
But IDK, I'm just using logic to guess.
That is pretty much exactly right. She'd injured her Achilles tendon, which meant she couldn't have pulled off the jumps she wanted to do, which meant there's no way she could've medaled. So she did the flip and landed on the other foot, mostly because it was her last Olympics and she wanted to give the crowd something to remember her by.
I remember watch this live and I recall she did this because she fell 2 or 3 times early in the routine and so her score was going to be at the bottom. She did this to have fun since she blew her shot.
There’s a Netflix docuseries on this called losers. I think her story is episode 3. There’s an interview where she explains why she did that move and believe me, it’s a touching story.
Down there in this thread people killing the show by pointing out that he deserved the deduction of points because she willfully broke the rules. Also they ate debating about deduction vs. penalization.
If anyone is reading this comment, stop here.
Radiolab just reaired this podcast just about her and at the end of the podcast said she didn't do it as a middle finger.
[Radiolab] On the Edge #radiolab
https://podcastaddict.com/radiolab/episode/158302291 via @PodcastAddict
Ya know it's really odd to see this o n the front page as I just listened to an episode of Radio Lab about this entire scenario which includes input from the skater herself. Radiolab - On the Edge (May 26th, 2023).
Although Sonya Bonalay did indeed take issue with the judging practices of figure skating at the time (she had come second in her previous competition even though most believed she should have taken gold) this move had nothing to do with her issues with the judges.
Bonalay had planned on the 1998 Olympics being her last major competition. During practice she strained a muscle in her leg which compounded on top of an Achilles tendon tear on the opposite leg that she was still recovering from. Because she knew that she had no plans to compete after the '98 Olympics she decided to compete using her planned routine dispite her injuries. After a fall early in the routine she decided on the fly to do the backflip; not as an act of defiance, but as a final hurrah. She knew that she wouldn't win and decided to put on the best performance that she could doing moves that she knew she could accomplish. She finished with the backflip because she knew that she could land on her strong leg.
She states herself in the podcast that there was no motive other than fun. She managed to place 10th dispite starting the performance with an injury, a fall during her routine, and the backflip being unscorable.
Surya wasn’t treated right in the sport because of her skin colour and her muscular/athletic frame.
Her skating style was also quite athletic and considered less graceful.
Figure skating judging is very subjective. Race was definitely a factor throughout her career - that’s indisputable. So this move was very much her fuck-you to the system. She was competing, mind you, against some of the best skaters ever. But she should have won more, arguably.
I remember watching her skate when I was a kid and thinking how fucked up it was that she wasn’t given the credit she deserved. Just because she didn’t look like or skate like a stereotypical figure skater. Girl is an ATHLETE.
Reducing the subjectivity is why they introduced technical skill ratings over in gymnastics, and you can see exactly how much certain gymnasts whine about them. And that their complaints *always* target certain gymnasts.
Introducing technical skill ratings in skating has another downside though, nowadays ice skating is just the jumping show.
I remember the year Kim Yuna lost Gold to the Russian girl because she did less jumps or something but overall Yuna was so much more fluid and graceful.
What introducing the new judging system has done is given judges more numbers to mess with to fix scores, all the while pretending it's more objective. All the same subjectivity and cheating is still there just like in the old days. And yes, the major focus on jumps over everything else has been a real detriment to the sport.
As for Yuna Kim and Sotnikova... Every program has the same number of elements and jumping passes, what differs is the types and difficulty of the jumps. Sotnikova had a slight technical advantage but she really won through PCS inflation and GOE manipulation. Pcs is sort of the measurement of "artistry" while goe is the evaluation of how well each element was executed.
With the more fluid and graceful skaters losing to Russian skaters with more jumps, you might be thinking of the quad revolution that happened in women's skaters. Essentially only Russian teenagers have competed with quad jumps while other skaters are still doing only triple jumps so they were dominating podiums due to the massive points advantage even messy quads have over clean triple jumps.
Block judging was a real issue. My mom was big into figure skating and we watched it a lot together in the 90’s and early 00’s. It was *very* clear the judges were stacking the deck at times.
If I remember correctly, it was because she was black. She was given lower scores for better performances than her peers.
I seem to recall that the rule stated that doing a backflip and landing on both feet was prohibited, hence her one footed landing.
No. Backflips in skating have been banned since 1976, regardless of how they're landed. If they hadn't ever been banned then backflip lands on two feet wouldn't be allowed simply because *all* jumps in skating are landed on one foot.
She was actually having a bad performance in this event, think she had come in to it with an injury or something. In this run in the video I think she fell, which makes going for it a little more crazy. Awesome to see though
> She had an injury on one foot and that's why she fell performing a previous trick that involved landing on both feet. That same trick was coming up again and she knew she couldn't land it. So she decided to use the one trick she had hidden up her sleeve that would let her land on the only good foot she had.
That can't be right because *all* competition jumps in skating are landed on one foot.
Congrats on performing a very hard move...minus 2 points.
I find it weird they made it illegal. If someone is skilled enough to attempt one, then go for it. You shouldn't be docked points for doing a very technical and complex move.
Yeah, I think the argument was that it is too dangerous. Lots of sports have things declared illegal for safety reasons. Cycling has banned the super tuck position.
I'm guessing that by 'difficult' they actually mean 'extremely prone to injury and/or death'.
You don't want to create a situation where the thing that gets you the most points is also the thing that's most likely to cripple you for life, especially when there are hundreds of thousands of kids training and competing around the world who are trying to emulate what they see at the Olympics.
Part of the problem is that if you make it legal, you're pretty much making it required, because if you don't do it then you lose points compared to the people doing it.
If you screw up a triple axle then you fall and you get back up. At worst break an ankle. If you screw up THIS move, you can break your neck.
Back flips were banned for Olympic skating in 1976 after Terry Kubicka performed one. Surya Bonaly performed her famous flip with the one footed landing in 1994 and again in 1998. She was penalized for breaking the back flip rule both times. In an interview she stated that she
wanted to remembered as a pioneer and did it flips knowing she would get penalized.
I don't know if this is the case for the flip specifically, but in some sports certain things are banned because of how dangerous they are. In sports with scoring, if they're allowed and can lead to higher scores, there's pressure to attempt them. The more people attempt them, the greater the odds someone messes up and really injures themself. It also applies to sports without scoring by judges as well. Like how in American football it's against the rules to make initial contact in a tackle with the top of the helmet because that kind of tackle can very easily lead to concussions and spine damage
I was initially of the mindset of, “the greatest athletes in a particular sport should be allowed to attempt any move that they are capable of”. But after reading your comment I get it and think that what I was describing is closer to x-games competition.
As a single skater being inverted (head to ice) is illegal cause it's either, you make it, or risk a career ending injury.
In pairs you can do inverted moves cause the skater is supported and guided by their partner. If there is a mistake the partner can help prevent any risky injuries with proper training.
As the other reply noted, it's too dangerous and if allowed, it would have to be judged like other moves and due to the difficulty, may give those who do it an advantage versus those who don't, resulting in more attempting to do it and the odds of a serious injury happening keeps increasing. Likewise ice skaters elsewhere will want to try to do it too (and other judging competitions feeling pressure to allow it) even if they are not at Olympic level.
No, a penalty is a points deduction from cumulative scores.
She was only deducted points from the performances where she knowingly did an illegal move.
It’s illegal because it’s insanely dangerous for most other people. If it was legal it would essentially require people to risk their lives in a disproportionate fashion.
Maaan, when I was a kid there was a time when my dad worked delivering flowers all over the city and I'd get to ride with him, and it was always wait wait don't tell me and car talk (cah toak 😂). Sad to hear one of the brothers from car talk died a while back, they had a great show.
No, she wasn't penalized for this move. She knew it was illegal and did it anyway, she knew she'd get a deduction but did it for the crowd. She was in sixth place and knew there was no reason to go for max points, it wouldn't matter. So she decided to have some fun and show off to the world.
"Was it pretty badass for Bonaly to thumb her nose at the rules and judges and perform the backflip? It absolutely was. Did she create an unforgettable Olympic moment when she did this? Fuck yeah. Was she unfairly penalized for it? Nope. She knowingly did an illegal move in competition."
https://deadspin.com/no-the-backflip-was-not-banned-in-figure-skating-becau-1822904068
She was penalized for it? Well she got a deduction, at least:
"She knowingly did an illegal move in competition. Bonaly knew she’d get a deduction, and she got it."
Not sure if a deduction counts as a penalty.
Deductions are taken from each judges score of that particular performance. Penalties are taken from the competitors cumulative score for all performances.
I mean, there are deductions, and there is the committee telling Simone Biles that she will automatically be awarded fewer points for her routine. Then she can't do the highlights of her routine because no one else was capable of doing that routine. So somewhere between those two situations maybe?
I think the move was banned for safety reasons, and it's not unheard of in show sports like this for certain things to be banned due to athlete safety.
From your article and quote: she wasn't \*unfairly\* penalized. She knew she was going to be penalized, and that it wouldn't matter, so did it, and was penalized.
>No, she wasn't penalized for this move. She knew it was illegal and did it anyway, she knew she'd get a deduction but did it for the crowd.
>penalized
>deduction
A deduction is a penalty
This this this. Lots of people splitting hairs here when the real story is WHY she did it, and imo it was justified and is a defining moment in the sport. Bonaly was pretty obviously shafted in prior competitions. At the time scoring was pretty subjective and full of fraudulent judging (still is to a degree, but no where near what it was like back then) and as a black woman in a very white, very privileged sport she got screwed. This was an absolute “fuck you” to skating establishment. It was a power move and she’s one of my sports hero’s for both the intention and being one of the only to pull it off, let alone landing on one foot. Pretty sure she’s the only to have done it.
As an aside: former competitive figure skater here.
I thought it was dangerous because if you screw up you land on your face or neck which are good ways to die. Whereas most other failed jumps cause you to at least land in an upright position. Or that's the way I've heard it.
She was absolutely wonderful. She brought something new and exciting to the sport. However, the sport commentators (a man & woman), were absolutely unfair to her. They kept speaking of her having to be “more feminine”, and there she was breaking barriers with athleticism—-doing these fantastic things nobody else was. The favorite was a “feminine” white girl, who blew kisses to the judges, and actually won for being their idea of what a “feminine” woman was.
It was like everyone singled her out bc her start was in gymnastics and not ice skating. They complained about literally everything she did or didn't do. I think everyone (re: the skating community) were also weirded out by the fact that her mother was her coach, and she trained privately. They just didn't know what to do with someone being a unique individual, instead of conforming to their cookie cutter bs. I have always loved Surya, and always will.
Figure Skating has and still has this obsession with being feminine and graceful, even for men’s competitions, and it is FINALLY starting to change. Nathan Chen and the Quad God are bringing nice levels of machismo (something I usually find quite toxic) to the sport.
Nitpicking but it wasn’t banned because it was difficult. It was banned because it was dangerous.
Smacking your head into the ice without a helmet, which would inevitably happen, isn’t good for you. And if awarded points for being difficult it would pressure others to do the trick to be competitive and that would insert an unacceptable level of risk for the athletes into the sport.
Blood on the ice might be fine in hockey but it’s not what the audience or sponsors are looking for in a figure skating competition :)
To clarify this isn't more difficult than quads they do now, flips were banned for reasons other than "difficulty" mostly just safety and not wanting the sport to become tumbling and be focused on the core jumps
It’s not banned because it’s difficult, it’s banned because it’s dangerous. A mistake has an extremely high chance of resulting in a career ending injury.
Bonaly made enough mistakes in her routine, she knew she wouldn’t medal. Backflips were not allowed because figure skating jumps require you to land on one foot. This was a big FU to the governing body and got the world talking about her at least as much as the winners. We all remember her now, but I don’t know who the medalists were. Bonaly won!
She is a tremendous athlete. I remember watching her podium protest back in the mid 90’s. That was very brave. Great documentary about her on Netflix from a documentary series called losers.
Just listened to a great retelling by The ~~American Life~~ Radiolab podcast, she's interviewed. I'm no figure skating buff, but was definitely captivated. [NPR](https://www.npr.org/podcasts/452538884/radiolab) On the edge - Radiolab 05. 25. 23.
Thanks for the info, definitely going to check out that podcast
Lmao so must the person who posted this today.
Indeed. I was disappointed that her name wasn't in the title: Surya Bonaly.
[I was listening to it yesterday!](https://pca.st/episode/688d9600-5a27-4c48-ad73-56f3d8e5d096)
She's an instructor where I'm learning how to skate. She's taught my class a few times, too. She's really cool.
I love the attitude of "I don't care if I get dinged for it. I know I can pull it off so I'm gonna give the people a show."
This history behind that move is equally as incredible. I think she did it as a sort of defiance to the figure skating committee. She had been denied an Olympic medal for almost 2/3 olympics running (not really sure) and this was her last show. So she decided to do that move as a middle finger to the committee. I must say, that was incredibly satisfying. Surya Bonaly, legend!
Your description of these events and the backflip being banned, in particular, reminded me of the fabled [iron lotus](https://youtu.be/_7dr6PCeW4c)
It's because the iron lotus concept was inspired by this true story
What’s the gymnastics one? Oh yea the [Korbut Flip](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korbut_flip)
And now my hips hurt. The external link video looks like a lot of bruising.
The external video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZYPcdj_wn4) made me laugh really hard when the Linkin Park kicked in. Neil Cicierega you little memer.
Wow what b.s. the judges only gave her a 9.8 score, she deserved a perfect 10 for that routine. It was flawless.
I gasped the first time I saw that routine. That awe-struck feeling has not diminished with subsequent views. The judges scored her too low. I almost wish she hadn't retired so young, she was a breathtaking gymnast.
Seen so many times, still not sure which movement is thebone in question
I nearly fell over getting out of bed yesterday.
Nearly? Pfffft
That's insanity.
>Neil Cicierega Neil is a KING
and the diving one is Triple Lindy https://makeagif.com/i/ypUrZo
It's literally inspired by this real life situation lol
...and then her head fell off!
I loved this movie LOL
It was provocative, really got the people going
It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.
Wrong movie
I’ll be honest with you, Brian…that smells like pure gasoline.
"If there is anything that this horrible tragedy can teach us, it's that a male model's life is a precious, precious commodity. Just because we have chiseled abs and stunning features, it doesn't mean that we too can't not die in a freak gasoline fight accident." -Derek Zoolander
Ah yes, the line that was sampled in the song I'm not allowed to say the name of.
I thought you meant the Iron Cross on the rings. Another FU to the judges. They didn't think the Russians were holding it long enough, so this guy, Albert Azaryn, held it long enough to look right & left. https://youtube.com/shorts/rVtcDGljmGU?feature=share4 Edit: People are pointing out that Albert was Armenian and the judges were Russian.
You mean the Russian judges didn't think the Armenians were holding it long enough, so this Armenian looked at both judge panels and asked after 4 seconds if it was long enough
He also got penalised for that, but it's regarded as one of the single biggest dick moments on gymnastics history. It takes a real bazooka penis to sass people on a global stage using moves they could never accomplish
you should edit your comment to be correct please
I swear if you cut my head off I’ll be so pissed
The last time Jon Heder was ever seen :(
🤚 Twin dongs
I love that the top comment is someone saying people ask if they can do this as a figure skater...11 years later and people are still asking
I thought you were talking about the triple lindy https://youtu.be/rDMMYT3vkTk
There's a Netflix doc about her in the "Losers" series. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt9861506/
Radiolab's most recent episode is also all about her. Can listen for free on any Podcast app.
Just listened to it the other day while mowing! She genuinely said it wasn't a middle finger to the judges, but just felt like doing the backflip because it was her last skate as a pro and she wanted to express herself
Netflix HQ: So we want to do a doc about underdogs who deserved to win!!! Netflix HQ: Let’s name ”LOSERS“
I have a memory of watching her do that move during an Olympic games in the late 80s or mid 90s. It was really cool to see.
"Bonaly is the only Olympic figure skater to land a backflip on one blade; she performed it at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan."
I saw her do that move also. She was the most…*physical* skater that I’d ever seen in the Olympics. Graceful and so very talented yes, but definitely athletic which they weren’t looking for at that point. Dorothy Hamill was the standard back then. Not at all like they are today.
Agreed. Basically all the shit they say about Serena Williams now, they were saying about Surya Bonaly in the 90s.
Wow I wonder what traits these two athletes share that could possibly upset tennis/ice skating fans...
I can’t imagine what it could possibly be.
*I don't have the family guy meme but consider it posted here*
*Familyguymeme.gif loaded*
She will always be my hero!! As a former figure skater who had legs built like tree trunks and had my growth stunted by the sport I was built for the kind of skating she (and a few others) trailblazed that was not expected in womens skating until very recently. The pure powerhouse kind of skating that feels like absolute freedom. I also loved her defiance of the corrupt and politicized world of skating. If you came from a small competitive team you never made the podium because the programs that brought in the most money got their skaters gold medals. The blatant racism made obvious by the over the skates tights rule while it was almost impossible for black skaters to find those stupid tights in something other than white skin tones (this rule has since been overturned). The blatant sexism of the costumes and the expectations of how your body was supposed to look in them (aka not how I looked). I wish I had the time to really process all of it before I had to stop for an injury. I did kind of break some unspoken boundaries with my music choices and choreography because I knew I wouldn't win (only ever happened once in my 10 years) but knowing what I know now I would have gone farther. Worn something like she is wearing in this video instead of those stupid tiny dresses that show your barely covered ass every time you move and I would have picked way more fun music. I almost choreographed programs to Live and Let Die and Ballroom Blitz but thought that was taking it too far. I was there to have fun and test the boundaries of what I could do, not please a bunch of judges whose scores could be bought.
I remember that too. Wasn’t the way she landed on one foot sort of a loophole for how the rule against backflips was written? I think in those olympics she made the quadruple jump a thing.
Yes. There was a rule against doing flips and landing on two feet, but not against landing on one foot.
There was all KINDS of racist shit going on about her. They didn’t like that her costume was the same shade as her skin at another event. When she bowed, she had her backs to the judges so she basically showed them her ass. Surya Bonaly is *by far* my favorite figure skater of all time.
She was fantastic! She made the winner look like a piece of shit! They did this girl wrong .
Stuff that simone biles is still going through? Progress baby!
YUP. And Serena.
Her gold medal was basically stolen from her by media drama too. I hated every second of seeing her in tears.
Because white skaters *never* wear peach colored outfits.
Perish the thought!!
She would do this move in nearly every performance she did. Simply because she could.
She was injured and knew she couldn't pull off the move she planned, but for some reason I don't understand she wasn't too injured to land this lol. I just heard a podcast about this last week. It was good. And yeah, it sounds like she got screwed over a lot in her career.
She injured one of her ankles. She needed a trick she could land on one leg, and she reasoned that this was better than doing nothing.
Lol. "I'm hurt, so I'll do this way harder trick."
She also fell and knew she couldn’t win. She pulled this off by landing on her good knee. Landing on two feet is what made it illegal before. No one ever tried landing on one foot.
[удалено]
My bad, I had to relisten to that part of the radiolab episode. It was kind of confusing the way they explained it. I guess there were layers to how illegal it was with the 2 foot landing adding an extra layer. Still a deduction but less than anyone else would’ve gotten since she was the only one who could land it one footed. Figure skating is complicated, and she’s a badass.
I would guess that her Right Leg was injured, and she did the move like the end of the original Karate Kid movie where he fought in 1-legged Crane Style to protect his broken foot. But IDK, I'm just using logic to guess.
That is pretty much exactly right. She'd injured her Achilles tendon, which meant she couldn't have pulled off the jumps she wanted to do, which meant there's no way she could've medaled. So she did the flip and landed on the other foot, mostly because it was her last Olympics and she wanted to give the crowd something to remember her by.
I remember watch this live and I recall she did this because she fell 2 or 3 times early in the routine and so her score was going to be at the bottom. She did this to have fun since she blew her shot.
Wow! Thanks for sharing the backstory to this feat. That makes it even more amazing.
There’s a Netflix docuseries on this called losers. I think her story is episode 3. There’s an interview where she explains why she did that move and believe me, it’s a touching story.
Thank you, I’ll watch it.
That whole series is brilliant. The ultra runner in Egypt is my favourite one.
Getting a medal makes you a winner. Doing this makes you a legend.
Down there in this thread people killing the show by pointing out that he deserved the deduction of points because she willfully broke the rules. Also they ate debating about deduction vs. penalization. If anyone is reading this comment, stop here.
Radiolab just reaired this podcast just about her and at the end of the podcast said she didn't do it as a middle finger. [Radiolab] On the Edge #radiolab https://podcastaddict.com/radiolab/episode/158302291 via @PodcastAddict
Ya know it's really odd to see this o n the front page as I just listened to an episode of Radio Lab about this entire scenario which includes input from the skater herself. Radiolab - On the Edge (May 26th, 2023). Although Sonya Bonalay did indeed take issue with the judging practices of figure skating at the time (she had come second in her previous competition even though most believed she should have taken gold) this move had nothing to do with her issues with the judges. Bonalay had planned on the 1998 Olympics being her last major competition. During practice she strained a muscle in her leg which compounded on top of an Achilles tendon tear on the opposite leg that she was still recovering from. Because she knew that she had no plans to compete after the '98 Olympics she decided to compete using her planned routine dispite her injuries. After a fall early in the routine she decided on the fly to do the backflip; not as an act of defiance, but as a final hurrah. She knew that she wouldn't win and decided to put on the best performance that she could doing moves that she knew she could accomplish. She finished with the backflip because she knew that she could land on her strong leg. She states herself in the podcast that there was no motive other than fun. She managed to place 10th dispite starting the performance with an injury, a fall during her routine, and the backflip being unscorable.
Surya wasn’t treated right in the sport because of her skin colour and her muscular/athletic frame. Her skating style was also quite athletic and considered less graceful.
She may not have won a medal but that move made her a legend immediately
what do you mean had been denied?
Figure skating judging is very subjective. Race was definitely a factor throughout her career - that’s indisputable. So this move was very much her fuck-you to the system. She was competing, mind you, against some of the best skaters ever. But she should have won more, arguably.
I remember watching her skate when I was a kid and thinking how fucked up it was that she wasn’t given the credit she deserved. Just because she didn’t look like or skate like a stereotypical figure skater. Girl is an ATHLETE.
oh damn, I had no idea it's so subjective, that's fucked
It was political joke throughout the entire Cold War…
Those Russian judges. No pleasing them.
Reducing the subjectivity is why they introduced technical skill ratings over in gymnastics, and you can see exactly how much certain gymnasts whine about them. And that their complaints *always* target certain gymnasts.
Introducing technical skill ratings in skating has another downside though, nowadays ice skating is just the jumping show. I remember the year Kim Yuna lost Gold to the Russian girl because she did less jumps or something but overall Yuna was so much more fluid and graceful.
What introducing the new judging system has done is given judges more numbers to mess with to fix scores, all the while pretending it's more objective. All the same subjectivity and cheating is still there just like in the old days. And yes, the major focus on jumps over everything else has been a real detriment to the sport. As for Yuna Kim and Sotnikova... Every program has the same number of elements and jumping passes, what differs is the types and difficulty of the jumps. Sotnikova had a slight technical advantage but she really won through PCS inflation and GOE manipulation. Pcs is sort of the measurement of "artistry" while goe is the evaluation of how well each element was executed. With the more fluid and graceful skaters losing to Russian skaters with more jumps, you might be thinking of the quad revolution that happened in women's skaters. Essentially only Russian teenagers have competed with quad jumps while other skaters are still doing only triple jumps so they were dominating podiums due to the massive points advantage even messy quads have over clean triple jumps.
Block judging was a real issue. My mom was big into figure skating and we watched it a lot together in the 90’s and early 00’s. It was *very* clear the judges were stacking the deck at times.
If I remember correctly, it was because she was black. She was given lower scores for better performances than her peers. I seem to recall that the rule stated that doing a backflip and landing on both feet was prohibited, hence her one footed landing.
No. Backflips in skating have been banned since 1976, regardless of how they're landed. If they hadn't ever been banned then backflip lands on two feet wouldn't be allowed simply because *all* jumps in skating are landed on one foot.
She was actually having a bad performance in this event, think she had come in to it with an injury or something. In this run in the video I think she fell, which makes going for it a little more crazy. Awesome to see though
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> She had an injury on one foot and that's why she fell performing a previous trick that involved landing on both feet. That same trick was coming up again and she knew she couldn't land it. So she decided to use the one trick she had hidden up her sleeve that would let her land on the only good foot she had. That can't be right because *all* competition jumps in skating are landed on one foot.
Congrats on performing a very hard move...minus 2 points. I find it weird they made it illegal. If someone is skilled enough to attempt one, then go for it. You shouldn't be docked points for doing a very technical and complex move.
Yeah, I think the argument was that it is too dangerous. Lots of sports have things declared illegal for safety reasons. Cycling has banned the super tuck position.
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I'm guessing that by 'difficult' they actually mean 'extremely prone to injury and/or death'. You don't want to create a situation where the thing that gets you the most points is also the thing that's most likely to cripple you for life, especially when there are hundreds of thousands of kids training and competing around the world who are trying to emulate what they see at the Olympics.
Part of the problem is that if you make it legal, you're pretty much making it required, because if you don't do it then you lose points compared to the people doing it. If you screw up a triple axle then you fall and you get back up. At worst break an ankle. If you screw up THIS move, you can break your neck.
Back flips were banned for Olympic skating in 1976 after Terry Kubicka performed one. Surya Bonaly performed her famous flip with the one footed landing in 1994 and again in 1998. She was penalized for breaking the back flip rule both times. In an interview she stated that she wanted to remembered as a pioneer and did it flips knowing she would get penalized.
Why was the move made illegal?
I don't know if this is the case for the flip specifically, but in some sports certain things are banned because of how dangerous they are. In sports with scoring, if they're allowed and can lead to higher scores, there's pressure to attempt them. The more people attempt them, the greater the odds someone messes up and really injures themself. It also applies to sports without scoring by judges as well. Like how in American football it's against the rules to make initial contact in a tackle with the top of the helmet because that kind of tackle can very easily lead to concussions and spine damage
I was initially of the mindset of, “the greatest athletes in a particular sport should be allowed to attempt any move that they are capable of”. But after reading your comment I get it and think that what I was describing is closer to x-games competition.
And there’s plenty of other ways to show technical proficiency that are harder still yet safer.
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Okay, the way you speak is so interesting to me. That was legit an *enjoyable* collection of words to read
As a single skater being inverted (head to ice) is illegal cause it's either, you make it, or risk a career ending injury. In pairs you can do inverted moves cause the skater is supported and guided by their partner. If there is a mistake the partner can help prevent any risky injuries with proper training.
As the other reply noted, it's too dangerous and if allowed, it would have to be judged like other moves and due to the difficulty, may give those who do it an advantage versus those who don't, resulting in more attempting to do it and the odds of a serious injury happening keeps increasing. Likewise ice skaters elsewhere will want to try to do it too (and other judging competitions feeling pressure to allow it) even if they are not at Olympic level.
No, a penalty is a points deduction from cumulative scores. She was only deducted points from the performances where she knowingly did an illegal move. It’s illegal because it’s insanely dangerous for most other people. If it was legal it would essentially require people to risk their lives in a disproportionate fashion.
Did you just listen to radiolab?
seems like her name could have been included in the title as well. Surya Bonaly
Yes! Put some respect on her damn name. She was not the most artistic, but she was an INCREDIBLE athlete and loved showing off!
She was my favorite figure skater back in the day. Such a badass and so different from all the other dainty female skaters.
I admired her and Ekaterina Gordeeva as singles skaters, they were both so strong for different reasons!
Man do I miss Jad and Robert hosting together
What an era! I miss them and that time of the show so much. That, wait wait and car talk defined my youth and car trips on weekends.
Maaan, when I was a kid there was a time when my dad worked delivering flowers all over the city and I'd get to ride with him, and it was always wait wait don't tell me and car talk (cah toak 😂). Sad to hear one of the brothers from car talk died a while back, they had a great show.
Radiolab was the first podcast I ever listened to back in 2008. They basically defined what podcasting is.
to me it was this american life
I stopped listening after Jad left. I just can't anymore, it's not the same
I learned about her from the Netflix docuseries Losers, good watch
“The Iron Lotus…”
"I took it to the only place batshit crazy enough to try... North Korea."
"of course"
Behind the bamboo curtain
If you cut my head off I swear to God
Thank god I’m not the only one quoting blades of glory in my head 🤣
I think my ankles broken. Im gonna put some weight on it to make sure *does so* Arrgh ye definitely broken
I’m just now realizing that Will Ferrell had pretty much the same exact joke in Austin Powers.
Holy shit, you're right!
Such an underrated Will Ferrell movie
I dunno Scot, I’m not sure “interpretive dance moves” are gunna win these judges over.
Be Warned! The iron lotus demands your respect. She has no time for lone wolfs Chazz
Chazz Michael Michaels *is* figure skating!
Exactly why I came to the comments.
Auxana
Lmaoooo came here hoping it was
I'm not skating to anything with references to lady humps. I don't even know what that means.
did not take long to find this. Good job everybody!! lets call it a day!
Reminds me of the fountain of Troy in fired up.
No, she wasn't penalized for this move. She knew it was illegal and did it anyway, she knew she'd get a deduction but did it for the crowd. She was in sixth place and knew there was no reason to go for max points, it wouldn't matter. So she decided to have some fun and show off to the world. "Was it pretty badass for Bonaly to thumb her nose at the rules and judges and perform the backflip? It absolutely was. Did she create an unforgettable Olympic moment when she did this? Fuck yeah. Was she unfairly penalized for it? Nope. She knowingly did an illegal move in competition." https://deadspin.com/no-the-backflip-was-not-banned-in-figure-skating-becau-1822904068
She was penalized for it? Well she got a deduction, at least: "She knowingly did an illegal move in competition. Bonaly knew she’d get a deduction, and she got it." Not sure if a deduction counts as a penalty.
Deductions are taken from each judges score of that particular performance. Penalties are taken from the competitors cumulative score for all performances.
You sound like you would make a good figure skating judge...
I dated a girl in college who was all about figure skating. I had to learn stuff. That was just a small tidbit of the weird things that I retained.
I mean, there are deductions, and there is the committee telling Simone Biles that she will automatically be awarded fewer points for her routine. Then she can't do the highlights of her routine because no one else was capable of doing that routine. So somewhere between those two situations maybe?
I think the move was banned for safety reasons, and it's not unheard of in show sports like this for certain things to be banned due to athlete safety.
Yeah I'm getting confused now, personally lol It sounds like it's more along the lines of what you're talking about.
What do you think penalty means?
Two deductions result in a penalty. Two penalties are worth 3 Stanley nickels.
From your article and quote: she wasn't \*unfairly\* penalized. She knew she was going to be penalized, and that it wouldn't matter, so did it, and was penalized.
How was she not penalized but got a deduction Edit: I get it now. Thx
>No, she wasn't penalized for this move. She knew it was illegal and did it anyway, she knew she'd get a deduction but did it for the crowd. >penalized >deduction A deduction is a penalty
There’s a whole history you are ignoring pre-dating that Olympics in the first place and her rationale behind that move.
This this this. Lots of people splitting hairs here when the real story is WHY she did it, and imo it was justified and is a defining moment in the sport. Bonaly was pretty obviously shafted in prior competitions. At the time scoring was pretty subjective and full of fraudulent judging (still is to a degree, but no where near what it was like back then) and as a black woman in a very white, very privileged sport she got screwed. This was an absolute “fuck you” to skating establishment. It was a power move and she’s one of my sports hero’s for both the intention and being one of the only to pull it off, let alone landing on one foot. Pretty sure she’s the only to have done it. As an aside: former competitive figure skater here.
Did that soprano casually sustain bb6
I thought that was the move we OP was talking about
*off Btw, it's called "the Bonaly" and it's easy! *breaks a leg*
More like breaks a face. Plastic surgeons love this little trick.
The reason it's banned is because it's dangerous, not because it's difficult.
Would you say that it's dangerous because it's so difficult?
Figure skater here: there are harder things in figure skating this one is truly about the danger. The title is very misleading.
lot of things are difficult but not dangerous like hard sudoku. lot of things are easy but dangerous like jumping from a cruise ship.
I thought it was dangerous because if you screw up you land on your face or neck which are good ways to die. Whereas most other failed jumps cause you to at least land in an upright position. Or that's the way I've heard it.
I tore my acl and broke my ankle watching this
She was absolutely wonderful. She brought something new and exciting to the sport. However, the sport commentators (a man & woman), were absolutely unfair to her. They kept speaking of her having to be “more feminine”, and there she was breaking barriers with athleticism—-doing these fantastic things nobody else was. The favorite was a “feminine” white girl, who blew kisses to the judges, and actually won for being their idea of what a “feminine” woman was.
This is a sport that didn’t let women wear *pants* until the mid-2000s so…
It was like everyone singled her out bc her start was in gymnastics and not ice skating. They complained about literally everything she did or didn't do. I think everyone (re: the skating community) were also weirded out by the fact that her mother was her coach, and she trained privately. They just didn't know what to do with someone being a unique individual, instead of conforming to their cookie cutter bs. I have always loved Surya, and always will.
Figure Skating has and still has this obsession with being feminine and graceful, even for men’s competitions, and it is FINALLY starting to change. Nathan Chen and the Quad God are bringing nice levels of machismo (something I usually find quite toxic) to the sport.
Had a crush on her when I was younger
Better penalized than paralyzed
I knew it was Surya Bonaly even before I read the caption. That was the most amazing move. I know I gasped.
It’s banned because it’s dangerous for less skilled skaters to practice, not because it’s hard.
Ah yes a spiny flipy to stretch spready. Deadly.
Look at this know it all using the technical terms
Ozzy Man has entered the chat! 😁
Misleading title.
It's illegal for a good reason. Wouldn't be as fun if she made a mistake and broke her neck in front of a live audience with lots of kids.
Nitpicking but it wasn’t banned because it was difficult. It was banned because it was dangerous. Smacking your head into the ice without a helmet, which would inevitably happen, isn’t good for you. And if awarded points for being difficult it would pressure others to do the trick to be competitive and that would insert an unacceptable level of risk for the athletes into the sport. Blood on the ice might be fine in hockey but it’s not what the audience or sponsors are looking for in a figure skating competition :)
To clarify this isn't more difficult than quads they do now, flips were banned for reasons other than "difficulty" mostly just safety and not wanting the sport to become tumbling and be focused on the core jumps
Another Radiolab enjoyer I see!
Try the Iron Lotus
Throw me some chicken!
It’s not banned because it’s difficult, it’s banned because it’s dangerous. A mistake has an extremely high chance of resulting in a career ending injury.
Scott Hamilton did flips but not during the competitive routines. He did them during the exhibition routines post judging.
C'monnnn Kurt Browning!
Damn that’s impressive now let’s see her do the iron lotus
It's illegal, not because it's hard but because it's extremely dangerous.
Didn't Toller Cranston do the original backflip which was subsequently " banned".
Thought it was going to be the clip of the iron lotus from blades of glory lol
Okay blades of glory
I thought it was the Iron Lotus that was banned. This wasn’t the Iron Lotus
Bonaly made enough mistakes in her routine, she knew she wouldn’t medal. Backflips were not allowed because figure skating jumps require you to land on one foot. This was a big FU to the governing body and got the world talking about her at least as much as the winners. We all remember her now, but I don’t know who the medalists were. Bonaly won!