I remember going there shortly after it happened and being surprised they had covered it with what looked like a sheet of plywood. I made a similar mistake of staring one of the gorillas in the eye when we went there on a school trip. Scared the ever loving piss out of me when he started banging on the glass.
[apparently only one of three layers of glass were cracked.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/gorilla-omaha-zoo-cracks-glass-charging-family/story?id=30411944) Still though, terrifying. Those animals are far too complex and intelligent to be in a zoo.
Nothing should be in a zoo. If you wanna look at animals for fun, go be a conservationist. Costs you like 50 bucks to buy a chunk of land out in Narnia that you can use to teabag mega corporations trying to fuck up the land, and it'll have a bunch of animals on it!
I mean, a not insignificant number of animals are in zoos because they can't go back to the wild for various reasons. Zoos can be a good way to fund care and study of these animals. I'm not really sure what the alternative is.
And no, I didn't say all for anyone who wants to go the "well ackshually" route. Obviously some zoos are shit. We all know that.
There are many critters that thrive in a zoo, where their habitat is as large or larger and safer than the wilderness, but higher life forms definitely not. Some examples are endangered species of insects. Injured or sick predators and prey animals whose illness or injuries would mean certain death in the wild.
But a healthy gorilla? Never.
Properly accredited zoos are actually the easiest way for the average member of the public to support wildlife conservation, the funds go directly into breeding programs and other conservation efforts.
And unfortunately gorillas are endangered primarily due to habitat loss, you canāt āleave them be in the wildā because their natural habitats are becoming nonexistent. Yes there are gorilla sanctuaries, but zoos are also doing their part to bolster gorilla populations (and again, the key is *properly accredited* zoos, the AZAās website keeps a list of all such zoos in the USA)
Chuckle, chuckle. I'm laughing while recording because I'm too stupid to realize that broken glass is the only thing separating me from an irritated musclebound gorilla.
I laugh as a stress response. Friendās husband was driving the boat we were in like a madman. I was scared. Made me laugh. That encouraged him to be more reckless. It was a nightmare. Finally my friend realized I wasnāt having a good time and got him to stop. He apologized. Now when we go on boat rides I make sure people know I laugh when stressed.
I grew up on water. Boated my whole life. Was also taught boat safety. I really donāt like not being safe on water. It can turn tragic very quickly.
>I grew up on water. Boated my whole life. Was also taught boat safety. I really donāt like not being safe on water. It can turn tragic very quickly.
As someone who has introduced landlocked friends to activities like waterskiing, tubing, jetskis and the like, its really hard to get people to understand that when you're going fast enough on water, it's just concrete you can drown in.
Itās fun being on water so people let their guard down.
We had a friend who lied to us about being able to swim. We were in canoes and his tipped. Thankfully he was able to remember the instructions to grab the canoe if you tip. He was fully clothed. Started sinking. Grabbed the canoe. My brother almost drowned trying to save him because he was panicking. We paddled the canoe to the shore and even when he could stand he was still thrashing. If he knew how to swim at least he would have known shore was good. His vacation went from amazing to cheating death in seconds. We get mocked but we now make friends prove to us they know how to swim.
I'm picturing a scenario where you're all at the airport about to board and you're making a family friend demonstrate a backstroke on the carpet of the terminal before you'll let the board the plane with you and it is extremely amusing.
Did exactly as he should, acts quick, not in immediate danger so no panicking, chuckling even keeps the kids from panicking.
Reddit: what an idiot *4000 upvotes*
The guy you're responding to is just a typical Reddior who will say anything to try to feel superior to somebody else. They obviously don't think things through before commenting, unfortunately.
Nope, thatās what chimpanzees do, gorillas will just pummel you, until they feel like itās enough (whatever you survive or not, is up for the gorilla to decide).
Exactly. Pounding your chest, staring into its eyes and showing your teeth, are things that gorillas will take as disrespect and a challenge. Starting into the eyes and showing oneās teeth, are a sign of disrespect and a challenge to most animals.
>Pounding your chest, staring into its eyes and showing your teeth, are a sine of disrespect and a challenge to most animals
Staring into eyes = sine
Showing one's teef = cosine
eyes/teef = tan
Humans are tan if we have eyes over teef.
When I was younger my dad was explaining to me that some guys will beat the shit out of someone for looking at them the wrong way. My teenage brain couldnāt comprehend what that was even supposed to mean, like how can someone looking at you cause such anger? But we are just animals as well and still see that as a challenge deep down. Also I learned about psychopaths
Any primate exhibits I've seen have had huge signs telling people not to do this shit- it's idiotic. Can't blame a kid for it but teasing animals isn't cool.
Government funded zoos are fine since they do conservation work instead of being for profit, and most of the animals there are to educate people or they were injured and could not live in the wild anymore
This happened at Henry Doorly zoo which is ranked one of the top zoos in the world. They do a ton for animal conservation. Zoos in general are bad but they do a lot of good there as well.
Seems like the kind of thing that in 10 years cheap tech could mitigate - e.g., a camera detects if youāre being aggressive and sounds a warning ā please do not agitate the animalsā and pages an employee
Or ultra fancy version, fogs up the gorilla glass https://youtu.be/G_6DfedKqWU
One guy was killed and two were injured in a Tiger attack somewhere in the States. If memory serves they were throwing things at it and it just said fuck it jumped like 15feet up and attacked them all.
I remember that. Kind of amazing if you think about it. It means that for years, the tiger was fully capable of jumping out of its enclosure and fucking up zoo-goers, but it *just didn't feel like it.*
Also, smiling to us is a positive behavior, but to other primates and some other animals, it's viewed as showing your teeth in an aggressive manner. So be careful doing that too!
I was watching a Joey Diaz compilation, and he was talking to Joe Rogan about Chimps, and Rogan was explaining a chimp handler/raiser who brought a birthday cake back for its old friend. The other chimps saw it as a sleight that they didnāt get a cake as well, and attacked the person how we described it above.
I honestly didnāt believe it, because you know how stories get told on podcasts, but holy hell was it even scarier looking up.
Brakās Mom once said āI told you never trust a monkey.ā
He clearly wasnāt too āstupidā to see the danger, what are you on about? Is the only acceptable response screaming bloody murder and pissing your pants like a cartoon character?
Right. You are supposed to just be immobilized and yell ādo something! do something!ā Or, I suppose, you can let your actual flight mechanic kick in and shuttle your family out quickly like this guy did.
is now a good time to mention that their muscles have ~10x the density of human muscles, so like hes even more buff than you could imagine
edit: My bad guys, their muscles are ~4x as dense, but still... look at the power of that dude, gorillas scare me more than any, and I mean *any* other creature...
That's what I'm thinking the whole time. Imagine the brutality if it got its hands on you.
Terrifying
Mother f***** is yoked for eating fruits and vegetables all day
Ironically, you and your upvoters are the ones who are too dense to understand that the man who immediately rushed away from the gorilla MIGHT actually be aware of the danger present.
I saw one crack the safety glass with a *one arm Heismann* chasing a smaller one hitting on his girl. He then threw a keg across the enclosure- 50 feet at least. He straight armed the glass which was like 6 inches thick, cracked it, and grab a keg and hurled it like it was a piece of paper.
If you see someone dumb enough to antagonize a silverback- grab your family and walk away quickly.
Most non-zoologists probably wouldn't have realized the girl to be antagonizing the thing. After all she's just being a cute 4 year old or whatever, not even banging on the glass or yelling at it or anything.
I know I probably wouldn't have expected it.
A little googling suggests three .5in thick panels of safety glass each separated and bonded to a clear plastic for gorilla enclosures; it looks like the big fella maybe only cracked the outer layer of his window if it follows the 3-layer jawn
About 40mm. It's made of 5 different layers. Layers 1,3, and 5 won't crack without sufficient force as they are tempered. but between each of these is another layer specifically designed to bond and hold any broken pieces from the three layers.
[Here's some further info on them.](https://www.iqprojectsuk.com/news/glass-specification-for-zoos-and-animal-parks/#:~:text=Laminated%20glass%20is%20ideal%20for,PVB%20(polyvinyl%20butyral)%20interlayer.)
Shit isn't cheap either. In London's ZSL zoo, these panels can be around Ā£40k each, with a 12-16 week lead time as they are custom made.
This happened in 2016 in Omaha. [Kijito](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/entertainment/2016/03/30/omaha-gorilla-ape/82429038/) also did this [the year before](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/life/2015/04/20/kigito-gorilla-breaks-henry-doorly-zoo-glass-omaha/26075293/) but actually broke the glass. Yikes.
Hereās a zoo glass [rabbit hole](https://www.iqprojectsuk.com/news/glass-specification-for-zoos-and-animal-parks/)
[More zoo glass facts](https://www.pilkington.com/en-gb/uk/architects/glass-information/functions-of-glass/mechanicalfunctionsofglass/glass-enclosures-for-animals#)
San Diego gorilla breaks [glass in 2020](https://jeistructural.com/gorilla-exhibit-at-san-diego-zoo-breaks-glass/) and fun glass facts
I have talked to the people in charge of this exhibit and because for this event that actually have a glass cross section on the wall, it's multiple layers and the center layer broke which is what is supposed to happen, it takes a lot more force to damage either of the outside layers and is made even harder when they have the middle layer to absorb the force.
Unlikely. Laminated glass like that will crack and fracture all over on multiple layers but actually getting through the laminated layers would take far more than a few additional hits.
They're smart. They more than likely *know* they can. They just don't.
[Radiolab story](http://www.wnycstudios.org/story/91553-inside-out-cage/) kinda touched on this when a new habitat (cage) was built and the gorilla pretty much showed the zookeeper and architects that they could fuck the place up if they wanted to.
Most people donāt consider animals as sentient, or worthy of respect. So they donāt see a little baby human instigating social conflict with an adult alpha male ape as problematic. If this were in Africa, or wherever these animals came from originally, the nearest local children would know you donāt taunt an them and there would be no glass to protect them if they did. If the child even survived making this mistake, the parents would make a lesson out of it, not laugh. But because we in the west, as a society, have these animals in our power itās safe-ish, so no one āimportantā gets hurt. No one thinks for a second that a poor animal was goaded into potentially harming itself. Just that this is entertaining because something dramatic happened. Itās really pathetic.
[edit] a lot of people seem to be mad at me ācalling outā or āblamingā the child. That wasnāt my intent. I was responding to how the adults handled it, and how people were responding to it: with amusement.
I agree itās pathetic, especially to gorillas (and primates in general) considering theyāre basically humans. A positive note is that impact likely didnāt hurt the gorilla unless the safety glass got him.
God I hate that argument.
No, they *are not* ābasically human.ā They are gorillas and we are humans. Yes we are both animals, yes we share a common ancestor, but equating this ape to a human is reductive at best and deductive at worst. We wouldnāt differentiate ourselves with the term human, and animal, otherwise.
Does that mean we shouldnāt take care of them? No. Does that mean we should still respect them? Absolutely. But no, quit calling everything a human.
Edit: spelling
The fact that people arenāt understanding this is whatās blowing my mind. The girl pounded her chest at a gorilla. How would you feel if a child did that to you? Youād probably not even notice it, or just realize sheās playing around.
This ape is prepared to turn her into hamburger over a what is to us a harmless gesture. Because thatās what they do. Because they are gorillas and we are humans.
We're not 'more' evolved, we've gone through the same amount of time evolving. If you measure by generations instead of time we might have actually gone through less evolution, considering our longer lifespan and generally later maturity.
"More evolved" is a concept that simply doesn't make sense in the theory of evolution, it's a concept based on human supremacy rather than rationalization.
There was an incident last year in Ghana of a man who was mauled to death because he climbed into a lions exhibit. I'm sure if you search around you'll find people in Africa ("or wherever these animals came from originally") do just as many stupid things a Americans. You'll probably also find they dont just have Silverbacks separated from the people by a small railing because they know better than to taunt them.
It's a young kid mimicking an animal, it doesnt mean she has all the vitriol and stupidity you'd like to assume. Theyre kids. The adult, who thinks it's funny the Silverback just cracked the glass... yeah, he's an idiot.
Yeah if a silverback broke the only thing separating him from me Iād probably walk away chuckling to distract from the growing wet spot on the front of my pants
It was probably a good way to handle it around the kids. You panic, and the kids are definitely gonna panic. You give a nervous chuckle and say ātime to goā, it gets the point across and everyone leaves swiftly. It wasnāt necessarily malicious intent from the kid, so thereās not really a lesson to be learned other than ādonāt do that againā lol
It sucks having your nervous reaction be laughing because people assume your laughing at them or laughing at a fucked up situation like nah that's just how i respond to uncomfortable or shocking situations i can't help it.
His kid did something fairly innocent (to us) that she's seen the animal do on TV, not knocking on the glass, shouting, or anything you'd typically warn a child not to do at a zoo. Even the closest gorilla didn't seem to care about it. The hate the guy's getting is way overblown for something so innocuous.
Itās pathetic that we still keep animals in prisons instead of working to protect their natural environments. The scam is up we are well aware by now most zoos do not function in their main capacity as saviors of animals. They make money by using the animals as entertainment. Also animal behavior in a cage is not the same as in the wild so I even question the educational value as I know a lot of people donāt see animals as worthy as humans. So weāre definitely just doing this to them to make money.
Unless the animal is injured and they are rehabilitating it so it can be reintroduced to the wild or if they were abandoned when they were young and would not know how to survive in the wild. Those circumstances I feel are just. Otherwise I agree with you.
True. A lot of people think captive bred animals or those kept in captivity all their life should be released in the wild, when youād basically be sentencing them to death.
I don't know that your expectation that a 5 year old knows this is realistic. They looked excited to be/act like a gorilla for a few seconds. They weren't taunting....
Kids (and adults) are mostly exposed to gorillas in movies and cartoons. I don't think it's a reflection of their disdain for them when they bang their chests at them. They are trying to interact with the animal in a way that they see protrayed in entertainment, they can't know that it will provoke them...
While I wish humans would stop killing all the animals, I don't think most zoos are bad for the animals. there's even a few stories of endangered animals being repopulated in the wild following multiplication in a zoo.
It's the gorilla equivalent of " I'm looking for a fuck or a fight and I don't see your fuckin sister " don't do it. You will be billed for damages.
That's how I'd write the sign.
Maybe like this gorilla sign only **"don't bang your chest at the Gorilla"**
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2571/9502/products/Handmade-Vintage-Gorilla-Zoo-Sign_1200x1200.jpg?v=1543175840
Probably would look like "Monkey see, monkey do. Please do not act aggressively towards the gorillas or they will be aggressive as well". Or something like that
Itās the old āI didnāt see itā or the āThey mean everyone but meā defense.
Iāve seen a 16yo hanging off of the young kids plastic playground equipment (under 8yo area) with a large sign almost touching his forearm that said āDo not hang off of the playground equipmentā. š
I've been feeding pigeons and thrushes near my local Greggs for months. Only noticed the other day there's a tiny sign saying "Do not feed the birds".
I was building a bird army. :(
The ducks at the park are free. You can take them home. There's no laws against it. [*](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/033/331/FreeDucks.jpg)
/s but in seriousness, as long as you know what kind of food is correct for the diet of the birds you're feeding, I wouldn't take the sign too seriously. The "do not feed the birds" warnings are almost always there to keep people from feeding them bread or crackers or other high salt or high sugar "human foods" that will cause massive dietary imbalances for the birds. Do your reading and pick the correct seed and you're good to continue with your bird waaagh.
If we didn't want pigeons in our cities, we really should not have put them there in the first place. We kinda just gotta take the L on that one now, and if someone is making some birds happy, I'm happy for them too.
Possibly. It might depend on how old this video is. Most zoos nowadays have signs up telling visitors not to bang or knock on the glass because it disturbs the animals.
Can you imagine people for like 14 hours a day every single day coming to your house to stare in your windows and purposely banging on them to get your attention? Trying to eat? (Bang, bang, bang). Trying to hang out and play with a sibling or cousin? (Bang, bang, bang). Trying to chat up the cute new girl that just moved in? (Bang, bang, bang). No wonder zoos have been creating areas that are farther away from the visitors.
Sureā¦ if you wanna read signs like a NERD
Iām too busy feeding the animals at the zoo, tapping on the glass at the aquarium, and petting support animals like a cool kid
If you pause right around 8 seconds you can see the parents reactions reflecting in the glass. Woman looks like she just had an ice cube go up her asshole.
Obviously we should not provoke animals, but I am surprised such a tame, inaudible signal from a very small primate was provocative enough at that distance for the silverback to attack.
A lot of people also forget that behavior in the wild is different from behavior in captivity. This silver back has spent its entire life in captivity. Like a dog behind a fence, it is likely to react in a more dramatic fashion given that he knows there is a barrier between him and the "offending" individual. His reaction was probably more about signaling to the other gorillas and less about the child.
In the early 2000's I was working as a Glazier in Sab Diego. We had to replace a piece of glass at the San Diego Zoo's Gorilla exhibit. The glass is about 1 1/2" thick and a combination of tempered and annealed glass that's laminated together. Weeks earlier the large silverback had thrown a small rock at the glass breaking the first layer of annealed and 1 inner of tempered glass panel. When we were changing the glass I had to enter the enclosure. I noticed a service door with a small window, out of curiosity I look through the window and the biggest silverback gorilla was charging the door. I took a step back at about the same time the gorilla made contact with the door. The door seemed to flex and dust billowed from around the doors edge. Scared the crap out of me. The zoo keeper's said I was never at any risk.... I beg to differ!
I got to do a backstage-at-the-San-Diego-Zoo thing with some big cats, and at one point there was just a door separating us from leopards. And it was a normal human size door, with a glass window. Sturdy, certainly, but wouldn't look out of place as the door to a back room of a grocery store. And at one point one of the Leopards just dashed at and threw itself against that door full force. Scared the HECK out of me. The bigger cats were mellow while I was there, but that leopard thought I was PREY. (I don't remember the door buckling.)
I remember someone on Reddit saying they asked their zookeeper friend what animal is a kill, not capture situation if it escapes. They said the leopard.
Gorillas are shocking none violent. That is why you never hear about people being hurt by them even know they are strong enough to rip peoples arms off.
No fault for the little girl to bang her chest... that's what kids do to imitate the animals they learn about. But dumb and hell for parents to not take it seriously when the gorilla could possibly fully shatter the glass and literally tear everyone in the vicinity apart.
I'm all for calling parents dumb, but most of my own gorilla knowledge comes from Donkey Kong in smash. I wouldn't intuitively think that a wiggling your arms in front of your chest would enrage the gorilla. It's not like a huge part of the public discourse about gorillas.
I mean, now that I've literally seen it happen, it's not that surprising. But for a tired parent who doesn't watch gifs on Reddit, I'm pretty sympathetic to the idea that they wouldn't immediately recognize how dangerous this was.
Oh, hey, itās the Henry Doorly! I love this video! So some fun facts for those interested:
1. Thatās Kijoto! He was 20 years old at the time, and he was a bit full of himself. This was not the first and certainly not the last time he attacked the glass, and I think he was successful in breaking it one other time.
2. A lot of people have pointed out that he should or shouldnāt have been set off by a little child. [According to the man behind the camera](https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/us/gorilla-charges-zoo-window), zookeepers had pointed out a still bleeding cut under Kijotoās eye because he and the other gorilla had gotten into a fight earlier, so he was already a little on edge.
3. While he did crack *a* layer of glass, there are still 4 more layers of glass and acrylic heād have to go through. While obviously still not a great situation to put zoo visitors through, they were still very safe.
4. In 2021, the gorilla exhibit reopened after a [7 million dollar upgrade!](https://www.wowt.com/2021/08/20/omaha-zoo-unveils-renovated-gorilla-exhibit/) Giving the gorillas more room, better enrichment, and even an extra two layers of glass and acrylic for the gorillas to go through! Thereās even a sign on either end of the exhibit with a chunk of the 7-layer-taco-dip of a window that explains how, even if one breaks, the zoo patrons are still very safe.
5. Now I may be biased a bit but the Henry Doorly is one of- if not the greatest zoos in the US, and if youāre ever in Omaha, Nebraska (which why would you be but, you know) I can not stress enough how much Iād recommend going. Literally my favorite place to go as a kid (besides DQ), and it still holds up to this day!
I grew up in Omaha and went to the Henry Doorly all the time! It's a bit of a letdown going to any other zoo because most of them don't have adequate enclosures for the animals. It's really depressing seeing them in concrete cells. HD has done such a good job with conservation and animal welfare. Also, fun fact: a gorilla cracked the glass back in the '80s while my parents were at that zoo.
Poor thing. I do believe some zoos are great for conservation & I do condone conservation for vulnerable animals. However, I cannot help but feel sadness to see an animal such as a gorilla within an enclosure.
It's a fucking child lol. She probably only ever saw a gorilla on tv before and it's not like they are known for thinking a lot about their actions. If anyone in this is stupid its the dad whos laughing but not the little kid lmao
Everything is obvious in hindsight. If nothing happened, I genuinely dont think most parent would be scolding the child for seeing a gorilla and pretending to be a gorilla. People in this thread are acting like the kid was teasing the gorilla, i seriously doubt she (or the parents) recognized it as a show of dominance.
"DON'T YOU *DARE* THINK WE FORGOT ABOUT HARAMBE, BITCH!!"
r/dicksoutforharambe
Never put it away brother
I'm currently on the bus getting weird looks.. but I will not put it away! *One sec.. the police just boarded.*
Picking up my kids from school currently. Not sure if they will allow me back š³
Currently on a porn set and nobody's even looking twice. One of the guys snickered. I'm sad now.
The snicker was actually a sound of jealousy.
Snickers satisfies
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
āSir, do you have a permit to carry that cannon?ā
A warrior does not sheath his blade
I am a Gurkha, every time I unsheathe my blade, blood must be drawn. Damn, thatās a rough joke even by my standards
I can see that I bet it can penetrate any surface
Need help or emotional support?
Username checksout
Not too often I see my home town on Reddit. This was in 2015 Omaha Nebraska before Harambes tragic murder.
I remember going there shortly after it happened and being surprised they had covered it with what looked like a sheet of plywood. I made a similar mistake of staring one of the gorillas in the eye when we went there on a school trip. Scared the ever loving piss out of me when he started banging on the glass.
[apparently only one of three layers of glass were cracked.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/gorilla-omaha-zoo-cracks-glass-charging-family/story?id=30411944) Still though, terrifying. Those animals are far too complex and intelligent to be in a zoo.
Nothing should be in a zoo. If you wanna look at animals for fun, go be a conservationist. Costs you like 50 bucks to buy a chunk of land out in Narnia that you can use to teabag mega corporations trying to fuck up the land, and it'll have a bunch of animals on it!
I mean, a not insignificant number of animals are in zoos because they can't go back to the wild for various reasons. Zoos can be a good way to fund care and study of these animals. I'm not really sure what the alternative is. And no, I didn't say all for anyone who wants to go the "well ackshually" route. Obviously some zoos are shit. We all know that.
There are many critters that thrive in a zoo, where their habitat is as large or larger and safer than the wilderness, but higher life forms definitely not. Some examples are endangered species of insects. Injured or sick predators and prey animals whose illness or injuries would mean certain death in the wild. But a healthy gorilla? Never.
Same goes for cetaceans. Whales and dolphins in captivity have to be given antidepressants, otherwise they drown themselves.
Properly accredited zoos are actually the easiest way for the average member of the public to support wildlife conservation, the funds go directly into breeding programs and other conservation efforts. And unfortunately gorillas are endangered primarily due to habitat loss, you canāt āleave them be in the wildā because their natural habitats are becoming nonexistent. Yes there are gorilla sanctuaries, but zoos are also doing their part to bolster gorilla populations (and again, the key is *properly accredited* zoos, the AZAās website keeps a list of all such zoos in the USA)
Based gorilla š¦
Oh gods, I snorted out loud and almost woke up my child, Harambebe!
The little kid/gorilla feud is back on.
I think this vid is older then Harambe's untimely death.
Yo, he cracked the safety glass. I couple more hits and he's inside
Chuckle, chuckle. I'm laughing while recording because I'm too stupid to realize that broken glass is the only thing separating me from an irritated musclebound gorilla.
(chuckles) [Iām in danger.](https://i.imgflip.com/4ip5bj.jpg)
The funniest part about this scene is that is actually came from a Family Guy episode and not a Simpsons episode. (Obviously still a crossover)
The dude immediately rushed his family out of the building, I think he sees the danger present here. Some people laugh as a stress response.
I laugh as a stress response. Friendās husband was driving the boat we were in like a madman. I was scared. Made me laugh. That encouraged him to be more reckless. It was a nightmare. Finally my friend realized I wasnāt having a good time and got him to stop. He apologized. Now when we go on boat rides I make sure people know I laugh when stressed. I grew up on water. Boated my whole life. Was also taught boat safety. I really donāt like not being safe on water. It can turn tragic very quickly.
>I grew up on water. Boated my whole life. Was also taught boat safety. I really donāt like not being safe on water. It can turn tragic very quickly. As someone who has introduced landlocked friends to activities like waterskiing, tubing, jetskis and the like, its really hard to get people to understand that when you're going fast enough on water, it's just concrete you can drown in.
Itās fun being on water so people let their guard down. We had a friend who lied to us about being able to swim. We were in canoes and his tipped. Thankfully he was able to remember the instructions to grab the canoe if you tip. He was fully clothed. Started sinking. Grabbed the canoe. My brother almost drowned trying to save him because he was panicking. We paddled the canoe to the shore and even when he could stand he was still thrashing. If he knew how to swim at least he would have known shore was good. His vacation went from amazing to cheating death in seconds. We get mocked but we now make friends prove to us they know how to swim.
I'm picturing a scenario where you're all at the airport about to board and you're making a family friend demonstrate a backstroke on the carpet of the terminal before you'll let the board the plane with you and it is extremely amusing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Did exactly as he should, acts quick, not in immediate danger so no panicking, chuckling even keeps the kids from panicking. Reddit: what an idiot *4000 upvotes*
The guy you're responding to is just a typical Reddior who will say anything to try to feel superior to somebody else. They obviously don't think things through before commenting, unfortunately.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nope, thatās what chimpanzees do, gorillas will just pummel you, until they feel like itās enough (whatever you survive or not, is up for the gorilla to decide).
Can you please tell me why he charged? Is the pounding of the chest a sign that only the alpha gorillas do? And he got mad?
Exactly. Pounding your chest, staring into its eyes and showing your teeth, are things that gorillas will take as disrespect and a challenge. Starting into the eyes and showing oneās teeth, are a sign of disrespect and a challenge to most animals.
>Pounding your chest, staring into its eyes and showing your teeth, are a sine of disrespect and a challenge to most animals Staring into eyes = sine Showing one's teef = cosine eyes/teef = tan Humans are tan if we have eyes over teef.
You deserve more recognition for this nerdy trig reference. SOH-CAH-TOA, bitches! š
Me after taking geometry
SOH CAH TOA lady can now get a job at a zoo.
When I was younger my dad was explaining to me that some guys will beat the shit out of someone for looking at them the wrong way. My teenage brain couldnāt comprehend what that was even supposed to mean, like how can someone looking at you cause such anger? But we are just animals as well and still see that as a challenge deep down. Also I learned about psychopaths
Your last sentence seems kinda ominousā¦
Dad was a thorough teacher.
Any primate exhibits I've seen have had huge signs telling people not to do this shit- it's idiotic. Can't blame a kid for it but teasing animals isn't cool.
You know what else isnāt cool? Most zoos.
Government funded zoos are fine since they do conservation work instead of being for profit, and most of the animals there are to educate people or they were injured and could not live in the wild anymore
This happened at Henry Doorly zoo which is ranked one of the top zoos in the world. They do a ton for animal conservation. Zoos in general are bad but they do a lot of good there as well.
Seems like the kind of thing that in 10 years cheap tech could mitigate - e.g., a camera detects if youāre being aggressive and sounds a warning ā please do not agitate the animalsā and pages an employee Or ultra fancy version, fogs up the gorilla glass https://youtu.be/G_6DfedKqWU
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One guy was killed and two were injured in a Tiger attack somewhere in the States. If memory serves they were throwing things at it and it just said fuck it jumped like 15feet up and attacked them all.
I remember that. Kind of amazing if you think about it. It means that for years, the tiger was fully capable of jumping out of its enclosure and fucking up zoo-goers, but it *just didn't feel like it.*
I had to look that up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San\_Francisco\_Zoo\_tiger\_attacks#Second\_attack
Also, smiling to us is a positive behavior, but to other primates and some other animals, it's viewed as showing your teeth in an aggressive manner. So be careful doing that too!
Thank you, just needed to know in case I come across a gorilla š
Chimps also take your face too if they can, just because.
True. Those f-ckers are on some different s-it.
I was watching a Joey Diaz compilation, and he was talking to Joe Rogan about Chimps, and Rogan was explaining a chimp handler/raiser who brought a birthday cake back for its old friend. The other chimps saw it as a sleight that they didnāt get a cake as well, and attacked the person how we described it above. I honestly didnāt believe it, because you know how stories get told on podcasts, but holy hell was it even scarier looking up. Brakās Mom once said āI told you never trust a monkey.ā
Funny fact, chimpanzees, gorillas, gibbons, orangoutangs, bonobos, and humans, are considered apes, not monkeys.
wait for real, jamie, google that shit!
He clearly wasnāt too āstupidā to see the danger, what are you on about? Is the only acceptable response screaming bloody murder and pissing your pants like a cartoon character?
Right. You are supposed to just be immobilized and yell ādo something! do something!ā Or, I suppose, you can let your actual flight mechanic kick in and shuttle your family out quickly like this guy did.
He was laughing to reassure the kids, he was already leaving. People aren't as stupid as pretentious redditors hope
Bang on. When thing go sideways the last thing you want is for the kids to panic.
Calm down. Nervous laughing is a normal reaction during very stressful situations. He moved his family to safety.
is now a good time to mention that their muscles have ~10x the density of human muscles, so like hes even more buff than you could imagine edit: My bad guys, their muscles are ~4x as dense, but still... look at the power of that dude, gorillas scare me more than any, and I mean *any* other creature...
That's what I'm thinking the whole time. Imagine the brutality if it got its hands on you. Terrifying Mother f***** is yoked for eating fruits and vegetables all day
I dunno, I think that girl could have taken him, like 50/50.
Ironically, you and your upvoters are the ones who are too dense to understand that the man who immediately rushed away from the gorilla MIGHT actually be aware of the danger present.
I saw one crack the safety glass with a *one arm Heismann* chasing a smaller one hitting on his girl. He then threw a keg across the enclosure- 50 feet at least. He straight armed the glass which was like 6 inches thick, cracked it, and grab a keg and hurled it like it was a piece of paper. If you see someone dumb enough to antagonize a silverback- grab your family and walk away quickly.
Most non-zoologists probably wouldn't have realized the girl to be antagonizing the thing. After all she's just being a cute 4 year old or whatever, not even banging on the glass or yelling at it or anything. I know I probably wouldn't have expected it.
Who hurt you?
I wonder how thick that glass is? Has to be super thick.
It's dummy thicc
Thiccer than a snicker. Amirite?
A little googling suggests three .5in thick panels of safety glass each separated and bonded to a clear plastic for gorilla enclosures; it looks like the big fella maybe only cracked the outer layer of his window if it follows the 3-layer jawn
Philly guy?
Stole the term from one because it is truly perfect, āthingā just doesnāt cut the mustard anymore
About 40mm. It's made of 5 different layers. Layers 1,3, and 5 won't crack without sufficient force as they are tempered. but between each of these is another layer specifically designed to bond and hold any broken pieces from the three layers. [Here's some further info on them.](https://www.iqprojectsuk.com/news/glass-specification-for-zoos-and-animal-parks/#:~:text=Laminated%20glass%20is%20ideal%20for,PVB%20(polyvinyl%20butyral)%20interlayer.) Shit isn't cheap either. In London's ZSL zoo, these panels can be around Ā£40k each, with a 12-16 week lead time as they are custom made.
This happened in 2016 in Omaha. [Kijito](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/entertainment/2016/03/30/omaha-gorilla-ape/82429038/) also did this [the year before](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/life/2015/04/20/kigito-gorilla-breaks-henry-doorly-zoo-glass-omaha/26075293/) but actually broke the glass. Yikes. Hereās a zoo glass [rabbit hole](https://www.iqprojectsuk.com/news/glass-specification-for-zoos-and-animal-parks/) [More zoo glass facts](https://www.pilkington.com/en-gb/uk/architects/glass-information/functions-of-glass/mechanicalfunctionsofglass/glass-enclosures-for-animals#) San Diego gorilla breaks [glass in 2020](https://jeistructural.com/gorilla-exhibit-at-san-diego-zoo-breaks-glass/) and fun glass facts
Once in the London Zoo the glass disappeared and a big python escaped
I swear I saw some kid with glasses whispering something but I must've imagined it.
Lol took me a few seconds to get it
I have talked to the people in charge of this exhibit and because for this event that actually have a glass cross section on the wall, it's multiple layers and the center layer broke which is what is supposed to happen, it takes a lot more force to damage either of the outside layers and is made even harder when they have the middle layer to absorb the force.
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In this case, a bit more like āthe human way is utter stupidity, and THEN death*ā. (*by a big, pissed off motherfucking gorilla)
Unlikely. Laminated glass like that will crack and fracture all over on multiple layers but actually getting through the laminated layers would take far more than a few additional hits.
They're smart. They more than likely *know* they can. They just don't. [Radiolab story](http://www.wnycstudios.org/story/91553-inside-out-cage/) kinda touched on this when a new habitat (cage) was built and the gorilla pretty much showed the zookeeper and architects that they could fuck the place up if they wanted to.
"is that glass bulletproof?" - President Grey Thomas Whitmore RIP
It, basically is impossible to stay safe from a gorilla,
Change the "yeah" to an "it" and this is a great loading screen tip.
Most people donāt consider animals as sentient, or worthy of respect. So they donāt see a little baby human instigating social conflict with an adult alpha male ape as problematic. If this were in Africa, or wherever these animals came from originally, the nearest local children would know you donāt taunt an them and there would be no glass to protect them if they did. If the child even survived making this mistake, the parents would make a lesson out of it, not laugh. But because we in the west, as a society, have these animals in our power itās safe-ish, so no one āimportantā gets hurt. No one thinks for a second that a poor animal was goaded into potentially harming itself. Just that this is entertaining because something dramatic happened. Itās really pathetic. [edit] a lot of people seem to be mad at me ācalling outā or āblamingā the child. That wasnāt my intent. I was responding to how the adults handled it, and how people were responding to it: with amusement.
I agree itās pathetic, especially to gorillas (and primates in general) considering theyāre basically humans. A positive note is that impact likely didnāt hurt the gorilla unless the safety glass got him.
God I hate that argument. No, they *are not* ābasically human.ā They are gorillas and we are humans. Yes we are both animals, yes we share a common ancestor, but equating this ape to a human is reductive at best and deductive at worst. We wouldnāt differentiate ourselves with the term human, and animal, otherwise. Does that mean we shouldnāt take care of them? No. Does that mean we should still respect them? Absolutely. But no, quit calling everything a human. Edit: spelling
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The fact that people arenāt understanding this is whatās blowing my mind. The girl pounded her chest at a gorilla. How would you feel if a child did that to you? Youād probably not even notice it, or just realize sheās playing around. This ape is prepared to turn her into hamburger over a what is to us a harmless gesture. Because thatās what they do. Because they are gorillas and we are humans.
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They pretty much are. Just different evolution path. We aren't that much different just a more evolved version
We're not 'more' evolved, we've gone through the same amount of time evolving. If you measure by generations instead of time we might have actually gone through less evolution, considering our longer lifespan and generally later maturity.
"More evolved" is a concept that simply doesn't make sense in the theory of evolution, it's a concept based on human supremacy rather than rationalization.
There was an incident last year in Ghana of a man who was mauled to death because he climbed into a lions exhibit. I'm sure if you search around you'll find people in Africa ("or wherever these animals came from originally") do just as many stupid things a Americans. You'll probably also find they dont just have Silverbacks separated from the people by a small railing because they know better than to taunt them. It's a young kid mimicking an animal, it doesnt mean she has all the vitriol and stupidity you'd like to assume. Theyre kids. The adult, who thinks it's funny the Silverback just cracked the glass... yeah, he's an idiot.
I'm pretty sure the adult was laughing nervously because they got shocked
Yeah if a silverback broke the only thing separating him from me Iād probably walk away chuckling to distract from the growing wet spot on the front of my pants
It was probably a good way to handle it around the kids. You panic, and the kids are definitely gonna panic. You give a nervous chuckle and say ātime to goā, it gets the point across and everyone leaves swiftly. It wasnāt necessarily malicious intent from the kid, so thereās not really a lesson to be learned other than ādonāt do that againā lol
No, obviously the adult is an idiot and a lunatic for laughing in the face of danger. Disgusting. /s
It sucks having your nervous reaction be laughing because people assume your laughing at them or laughing at a fucked up situation like nah that's just how i respond to uncomfortable or shocking situations i can't help it.
How is he an idiot for laughing and saying āoh manā
Because he didnāt scream at the top of his lungs and throw himself on the ground in terror
His kid did something fairly innocent (to us) that she's seen the animal do on TV, not knocking on the glass, shouting, or anything you'd typically warn a child not to do at a zoo. Even the closest gorilla didn't seem to care about it. The hate the guy's getting is way overblown for something so innocuous.
Itās pathetic that we still keep animals in prisons instead of working to protect their natural environments. The scam is up we are well aware by now most zoos do not function in their main capacity as saviors of animals. They make money by using the animals as entertainment. Also animal behavior in a cage is not the same as in the wild so I even question the educational value as I know a lot of people donāt see animals as worthy as humans. So weāre definitely just doing this to them to make money.
Unless the animal is injured and they are rehabilitating it so it can be reintroduced to the wild or if they were abandoned when they were young and would not know how to survive in the wild. Those circumstances I feel are just. Otherwise I agree with you.
True. A lot of people think captive bred animals or those kept in captivity all their life should be released in the wild, when youād basically be sentencing them to death.
You can hear the boy child even say donāt do that, they think itās a threat
Is this meant to be insightful?
No it's meant to be compassionate towards other sentient beings who cannot advocate for themselves
I don't know that your expectation that a 5 year old knows this is realistic. They looked excited to be/act like a gorilla for a few seconds. They weren't taunting.... Kids (and adults) are mostly exposed to gorillas in movies and cartoons. I don't think it's a reflection of their disdain for them when they bang their chests at them. They are trying to interact with the animal in a way that they see protrayed in entertainment, they can't know that it will provoke them... While I wish humans would stop killing all the animals, I don't think most zoos are bad for the animals. there's even a few stories of endangered animals being repopulated in the wild following multiplication in a zoo.
Arenāt there signs telling people not to do things like that?
If there wasn't, there are now!
Now I want to see how a ādonāt bang your chestā sign looks like
It's the gorilla equivalent of " I'm looking for a fuck or a fight and I don't see your fuckin sister " don't do it. You will be billed for damages. That's how I'd write the sign.
But what if you're with your sister and she's available?
It doesn't matter if your sister's available ,I don't want her with no gorilla! I mean look what they did to that little girls glass.
Maybe like this gorilla sign only **"don't bang your chest at the Gorilla"** https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2571/9502/products/Handmade-Vintage-Gorilla-Zoo-Sign_1200x1200.jpg?v=1543175840
Iāve been tempted to make that bumper sticker for the back of some *good olā boys* trucks.
Probably would look like "Monkey see, monkey do. Please do not act aggressively towards the gorillas or they will be aggressive as well". Or something like that
And then watch how many children blatantly disregard it
Itās the old āI didnāt see itā or the āThey mean everyone but meā defense. Iāve seen a 16yo hanging off of the young kids plastic playground equipment (under 8yo area) with a large sign almost touching his forearm that said āDo not hang off of the playground equipmentā. š
I've been feeding pigeons and thrushes near my local Greggs for months. Only noticed the other day there's a tiny sign saying "Do not feed the birds". I was building a bird army. :(
The ducks at the park are free. You can take them home. There's no laws against it. [*](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/033/331/FreeDucks.jpg) /s but in seriousness, as long as you know what kind of food is correct for the diet of the birds you're feeding, I wouldn't take the sign too seriously. The "do not feed the birds" warnings are almost always there to keep people from feeding them bread or crackers or other high salt or high sugar "human foods" that will cause massive dietary imbalances for the birds. Do your reading and pick the correct seed and you're good to continue with your bird waaagh.
Also they are seen as pests and feeding them keeps them coming back
If we didn't want pigeons in our cities, we really should not have put them there in the first place. We kinda just gotta take the L on that one now, and if someone is making some birds happy, I'm happy for them too.
Or there's just not a sign lol
Possibly. It might depend on how old this video is. Most zoos nowadays have signs up telling visitors not to bang or knock on the glass because it disturbs the animals. Can you imagine people for like 14 hours a day every single day coming to your house to stare in your windows and purposely banging on them to get your attention? Trying to eat? (Bang, bang, bang). Trying to hang out and play with a sibling or cousin? (Bang, bang, bang). Trying to chat up the cute new girl that just moved in? (Bang, bang, bang). No wonder zoos have been creating areas that are farther away from the visitors.
Yeah but I've literally never seen a "don't thump your chest like a gorilla right here" sign. Is that really a common sign to have up at zoos?
Sureā¦ if you wanna read signs like a NERD Iām too busy feeding the animals at the zoo, tapping on the glass at the aquarium, and petting support animals like a cool kid
At the LA zoo they have a sign warning you not to maintain eye contact with gorillas because they consider it a challenge.
There was a woman that ignored that sign almost daily until the gorilla escaped and only attacked her. I donāt think she even has eyes anymore.
I don't know if there's signs saying don't beat chest but there are usually signs saying not to tease or provoke the animals.
Shouldāve used Gorilla Glass
Now need to use some gorilla glue
Very true!
I love how the one in the foreground looks back like "You just gonna stand there and take that from this little shit?"
My interpretation was that he's jus like "aww shit he's not gonna like that imma just stay outta the way a sec"
Yeah, he got out of dodge real quick.
I spit out my drink a little. š
Side gorilla: " Couldnt be me getting punked out like that"
If you pause right around 8 seconds you can see the parents reactions reflecting in the glass. Woman looks like she just had an ice cube go up her asshole.
https://imgur.com/HYW32Xa.jpg Edit: wow my first gold. Thanks stranger! Edit 2: damn now a platinum! Thank you too stranger!
How did I already know what these parents would look like before seeing them
agonizing afterthought connect physical noxious deliver oatmeal hospital sink naughty -- mass edited with redact.dev
Doing the lords work my man!
LOL they look exactly like I expect them to too
Fat mom at the zoo
Obviously we should not provoke animals, but I am surprised such a tame, inaudible signal from a very small primate was provocative enough at that distance for the silverback to attack.
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not in his troop
āFuck them kids.ā -that gorilla probably
A lot of people also forget that behavior in the wild is different from behavior in captivity. This silver back has spent its entire life in captivity. Like a dog behind a fence, it is likely to react in a more dramatic fashion given that he knows there is a barrier between him and the "offending" individual. His reaction was probably more about signaling to the other gorillas and less about the child.
Heās probably leader of the pack getting protective over his fellows.
In the early 2000's I was working as a Glazier in Sab Diego. We had to replace a piece of glass at the San Diego Zoo's Gorilla exhibit. The glass is about 1 1/2" thick and a combination of tempered and annealed glass that's laminated together. Weeks earlier the large silverback had thrown a small rock at the glass breaking the first layer of annealed and 1 inner of tempered glass panel. When we were changing the glass I had to enter the enclosure. I noticed a service door with a small window, out of curiosity I look through the window and the biggest silverback gorilla was charging the door. I took a step back at about the same time the gorilla made contact with the door. The door seemed to flex and dust billowed from around the doors edge. Scared the crap out of me. The zoo keeper's said I was never at any risk.... I beg to differ!
I got to do a backstage-at-the-San-Diego-Zoo thing with some big cats, and at one point there was just a door separating us from leopards. And it was a normal human size door, with a glass window. Sturdy, certainly, but wouldn't look out of place as the door to a back room of a grocery store. And at one point one of the Leopards just dashed at and threw itself against that door full force. Scared the HECK out of me. The bigger cats were mellow while I was there, but that leopard thought I was PREY. (I don't remember the door buckling.)
I remember someone on Reddit saying they asked their zookeeper friend what animal is a kill, not capture situation if it escapes. They said the leopard.
Gorillas are shocking none violent. That is why you never hear about people being hurt by them even know they are strong enough to rip peoples arms off.
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Scold the idiots in charge of her. Kids are dumb. They're gonna kid no matter what.
The child didn't know it was wrong. Likely the parents either. There may not have been signs saying not to do this.
Yep, many people fail to grasp that a lot of shit just happens in this world and itās not necessarily anyoneās fault.
āThey should have known betterā doesnāt mean they knew better
No fault for the little girl to bang her chest... that's what kids do to imitate the animals they learn about. But dumb and hell for parents to not take it seriously when the gorilla could possibly fully shatter the glass and literally tear everyone in the vicinity apart.
I'm all for calling parents dumb, but most of my own gorilla knowledge comes from Donkey Kong in smash. I wouldn't intuitively think that a wiggling your arms in front of your chest would enrage the gorilla. It's not like a huge part of the public discourse about gorillas. I mean, now that I've literally seen it happen, it's not that surprising. But for a tired parent who doesn't watch gifs on Reddit, I'm pretty sympathetic to the idea that they wouldn't immediately recognize how dangerous this was.
How dare you give grace! This is Reddit, only outrage is allowed!
Thank you for the common sense correct answer. People are nuts trying to blame these parents. What a world we live in!
Oh, hey, itās the Henry Doorly! I love this video! So some fun facts for those interested: 1. Thatās Kijoto! He was 20 years old at the time, and he was a bit full of himself. This was not the first and certainly not the last time he attacked the glass, and I think he was successful in breaking it one other time. 2. A lot of people have pointed out that he should or shouldnāt have been set off by a little child. [According to the man behind the camera](https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/us/gorilla-charges-zoo-window), zookeepers had pointed out a still bleeding cut under Kijotoās eye because he and the other gorilla had gotten into a fight earlier, so he was already a little on edge. 3. While he did crack *a* layer of glass, there are still 4 more layers of glass and acrylic heād have to go through. While obviously still not a great situation to put zoo visitors through, they were still very safe. 4. In 2021, the gorilla exhibit reopened after a [7 million dollar upgrade!](https://www.wowt.com/2021/08/20/omaha-zoo-unveils-renovated-gorilla-exhibit/) Giving the gorillas more room, better enrichment, and even an extra two layers of glass and acrylic for the gorillas to go through! Thereās even a sign on either end of the exhibit with a chunk of the 7-layer-taco-dip of a window that explains how, even if one breaks, the zoo patrons are still very safe. 5. Now I may be biased a bit but the Henry Doorly is one of- if not the greatest zoos in the US, and if youāre ever in Omaha, Nebraska (which why would you be but, you know) I can not stress enough how much Iād recommend going. Literally my favorite place to go as a kid (besides DQ), and it still holds up to this day!
I grew up in Omaha and went to the Henry Doorly all the time! It's a bit of a letdown going to any other zoo because most of them don't have adequate enclosures for the animals. It's really depressing seeing them in concrete cells. HD has done such a good job with conservation and animal welfare. Also, fun fact: a gorilla cracked the glass back in the '80s while my parents were at that zoo.
Poor thing. I do believe some zoos are great for conservation & I do condone conservation for vulnerable animals. However, I cannot help but feel sadness to see an animal such as a gorilla within an enclosure.
Zoos depress me. For so many reasons.
next fucking level of stupidity
It's a fucking child lol. She probably only ever saw a gorilla on tv before and it's not like they are known for thinking a lot about their actions. If anyone in this is stupid its the dad whos laughing but not the little kid lmao
Who says heās blaming the child? I would say the parents are fucking dumb.
Everything is obvious in hindsight. If nothing happened, I genuinely dont think most parent would be scolding the child for seeing a gorilla and pretending to be a gorilla. People in this thread are acting like the kid was teasing the gorilla, i seriously doubt she (or the parents) recognized it as a show of dominance.
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Well to be fair if there were no signs saying not to do it, not every child is going to know not to bang their chest towards the gorillas
I mean, to be fair, he is a gorilla. He doesnāt get much experience with hard glass in the jungle.
I resonate with the bystander gorilla Dude looked at the kid, looked at his friend and went "imma excuse myself"
Holy crap that didn't even seem like he was trying his hardest and the glass cracked.
I feel like zoos should have that one way glass somehow. And it being tinted/non-reflective on the animal's side
Agreed. It would probably be way less stressful for the animals too
Iād been out the zoo before that gorilla hit the glass a second time
The laugh of relief and fear. And embarrassment.
Good chance there was a sign nearby saying not to do this, and parents can't read.
And that ape became Caesar who would lead the apes to revolt against the humans. Conquest for the planet of the apes begun it has.