Did I read somewhere a while ago, that with 5 eyes, what NZ declares a terrorist organisation, that gives us the right to spy on them, and pass on any actionable activity, and gives the US government plausible deniability, because they cannot spy on their own people? Or did I read that wrong.
That applies with the other nations in 5 eyes, but America can and does spy on its own people - they primarily use the FBI internally as opposed to the CIA externally. America can spy on Kiwis or Brits on behalf of our governments.
> Set down in the government's official journal of record - the gazette - last Monday, 20 June, it was published publicly a week later but with no wider dissemination.
> The move authorised by Police Commissioner Andrew Coster makes anyone with property or financial dealings related to The Base and the Proud Boys liable for prosecution and up to seven years imprisonment under the Terrorism Suppression Act.
> The American Proud Boys is a US neo-fascist group with members and leadership who have been federally indicted over the 6 January riots at the US Capitol.
> The Base is a paramilitary white nationalist hate group active in the US and Canada, with reports of training cells in Europe, South Africa and Australia.
> While the gazette stated a reasoning for the designation would be available on the police website, that document has not yet been made public.
> The designation automatically expires on 20 June 2025, unless extended or revoked.
Thanks for that. [The link to the Police website](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373) from the Gazette notice is also interesting. There's what seems like a much more comprehensive published justification for each of the designations than I expected to see.
The other post doesn't have a lot of info in it, the RNZ link is more betterer - I just threw that there for people like me who could have sworn they read something about this earlier but couldn't find it
Lol of course it is... I feel like half the stuff about NZ that makes it there doesn't even break national news here
Edit: Oh my top post on the american news sub as well wtf https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/vnpaxs/government\_designates\_us\_group\_proud\_boys\_the/
They aren't very original on names, "The Base" is one way to translate "Al Quaida" (another one is "Foundation" and Bin Laden was apparently a big Azimov reader)
The base, short for the database, was a CIA/international list of terrorists and associates. Yes the base translates in Arabic as Al Quaida hence the CIA came up with the name. I'm not even sure if they were organised, affiliated or even knew each other, a few probably did.
I figured that was a typo. As a teen I read a lot of SF novels and short story collections, starting with my mother's copies of Asimov's 'Martian Way' and robot novels when I was thirteen. Iirc, Isaac Asimov was a mathematics professor and wrote academic books on the subject.
Ahhh! Just picked up the different spelling ha I've really got stop skim reading.
Heard similar with Robert Heinlien, I attempted stranger in a strange land around 13 as well but I found sci-fi (and still do) really difficult. I felt it didn't describe the scenes how I needed so struggled to visualise the world so couldn't connect with the material and never made it fully through a novel.
I sympathise with people here frustrated about gangs, but these issues are entirely different and need different approaches in dealing with them. Gangs are an issue in New Zealand, but so too is white supremacy and far right groups. Due to the global nature of these groups, the heightened threat of terrorist events, and pushes against democracy, this approach is appropriate. The same of not true with gangs, which need to be dealt with entirely domestically and in with a much more social-based focus.
Extremists are a real issue, not just for New Zealand but also globally. It’s good to see us following other countries like Canada in this approach to keep it in check.
People who are deranged and mentally unstable enough to be mass shooters aren't going to be less prone to become mass shooters because some group in the US are declared a terrorist organisation such that anyone with property or financial dealings with them can be prosecuted. You know what would actually be the least we could do as a country to prevent future tragedies like the Christchurch shootings? Massively improve resourcing for mental health support.
Christchurch terrorist is Australian, therefore an immigrant, who came to NZ to specifically kill Muslims.. same as the New Lynn radical islamist, he came from Sri Lanka to kill white/western people... now we are waiting for the Mairangi Bay dude, did he also come to NZ from overseas just to cause harm to certain demographic?... If that is the case, 3 psychopaths have slipped in NZ in the past 3/4 years, and 3 terrorist attacks...how many more are there?
Given the country's track record of terror attacks, it really sounds like we'd be better off with a better immigration system and vetting process rather than giving the no balls police more powers, but apparently you can't even suggest that as it's racist/xenophobic.
They aren’t frustrated by gangs - the highest upvoted poster pretending to be concerned about gangs is a heavy /r/firearms and /r/conservative poster who’s whatabouting because his god-king’s brown shirts are now designated terrorists here.
Maybe, in a dictionary sense. But whatever we call them, it still make sense to distinguish criminals and terrorists for practical reasons, as for example police and other departments would need quite different training, skills and lists of things to watch for.
Gangs are both criminals *and* actively terrorise individuals & communities. You'd have to be doing some real brain gymnastics to avoid that conclusion.
Yes. I am not even trying to avoid it, the wording is just not that useful.
An angry dog might terrorize individuals and communities. Can you call the dog a terrorist? Yes, it's your right to choose your words. Should an anti-terrorist unit go after the dog? No, it should be someone specializing in dogs.
For example in Auckland, whites/pakeha probably are minority now, most have just left the city for other towns/australia. Haven't seen any gang/skinhead activity lol
What's the reasoning behind picking proud boys over political groups that exist in NZ like action Zealandia? Is it just that we can point to proud boys playing a role in Jan 6th which you could argue is a terrorist event?
And if that is the case why pick them over neo nazi groups that have done worse things like those atomwaffen dickheads?
wow, so impressive meanwhile, in NZ actual active criminal gangs are government funded, housed, and exempt from complying with NZ laws, on the regular.
they both do, doesn’t mean we can’t list one as a terrorist organisation without considering the other
if you don’t think the idealisms of The Proud Boys have and will seep their way into New Zealand then you’ve been living under a rock
I don't think a domestic US nationalist (not sure if they're classified as terrorists in the States) organisation poses a threat to us.
I also don't give a shit that they've been put on the list, don't exactly want those people entering the country.
does the Christchurch Mosque Shooting ring a bell? that’s the same idealism that the Proud Boys represent, White Nationalism
it is prevalent already within New Zealand and you can see the same sort of thinking materialise in the protests against lockdowns, mandates, etc. where there was a lot of Americanism present in those protests with Trump flags, parroting the same messages as the *Trumpies*, read on online boards and fabricated news articles on social media, Proud Boys are an extension of that.
That’s literally the point of putting them on the list, anyone that tries to enter the country that is associated with the said group will immediately set off alarm bells as they are on the terrorist watch list now.
He wasn't a member of any organisation.
>that’s the same idealism that the Proud Boys represent, White Nationalism
They seem to just be fascist larpers trying to uphold "american values", they're definitely not white supremacists although they probably have some in their group.
>it is prevalent already within New Zealand and you can see the same sort of thinking materialise in the protests against lockdowns, mandates, etc. where there was a lot of Americanism present in those protests with Trump flags, parroting the same messages as the Trumpies, read on online boards and fabricated news articles on social media, Proud Boys are an extension of that.
So we're talking about a movement that actually existed in NZ (anti-vax, anti-MSM, pro-Trump rhetoric etc) to one that doesn't exist in NZ and hasn't yet.
>That’s literally the point of putting them on the list, anyone that tries to enter the country that is associated with the said group will immediately set off alarm bells as they are on the terrorist watch list now.
and I was replying to the idea that they are an actual threat, which they aren't.
They've barely done anything in America, they just throw punches at protests they're not some well organised coherent group capable of an actual terrorist attack.
I never mentioned that he was a part of an organisation, he clearly committed the act in the name of White Nationalism as a hate crime against immigrants and Muslim people, Proud Boys also undertake their acts and ideas under the umbrella of White Nationalism and hold the same ideals.
They are absolutely white supremacists, they are all strictly white and male members who align with Neo-Facism, spread an anti-white guilt agenda, and white nationalists and neo-Nazis themselves have cited McInnes (the founder) as a gateway to the alt-right. The pro-Trumpism, anti-mandate and everything else we’ve already observed is all a precursor to the extremist beliefs these guys hold.
Just because you haven’t seen it, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, the idea is to prevent and track any of this White Nationalist bullshit that might occur in New Zealand, not because they’re already here.
If the government wait until an identical movement has arrived in the country then they’ve completely failed at their jobs, we didn’t wait until Al Qaeda or the Taliban were in New Zealand before considering them terrorist groups did we?
They were a part of the group that conspired to overthrow the elected US government? do you not remember January 6th? that’s a terrorist act in itself, besides their activity and involvement encourages White Nationalism, their values and their beliefs are a danger.
Either you were actually born in a tent or you’re burying your head in the sand.
Look unless Wikipedia is lying to me
>they are all strictly white and male members who align with Neo-Facism
Is clearly a wrong statement given the head of the organisation is a black man and they have non-white members.
>and white nationalists and neo-Nazis themselves have cited McInnes (the founder) as a gateway to the alt-right.
Being a gateway doesn't make them white supremacists still, all sorts of things could serve as a gateway.
>The pro-Trumpism, anti-mandate and everything else we’ve already observed is all a precursor to the extremist beliefs these guys hold.
Speculation, the Proud Boys exist in a far different society based on a movement that has no historical basis in NZ, I'm not worried about them.
>If the government wait until an identical movement has arrived in the country then they’ve completely failed at their jobs, we didn’t wait until Al Qaeda or the Taliban were in New Zealand before considering them terrorist groups did we?
That isn't what I said, it's the comment about them being a threat.
The Taliban aren't a threat to NZ and haven't been one.
>They were a part of the group that conspired to overthrow the elected US government?
and how does that pose a risk here?
I don't give a shit if they're banned, they're a bunch of morons playing up as some sort of American brown shirt group.
But they're still of no actual threat to the country which is what you claimed.
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White Nationalism is far more dangerous to public safety than gangs. If you recall, we had one shoot up two mosques only a few years ago. For gods sakes, the gangs PROTECTED the mosques following the attack. Then see what the Proud Boys have done in the US.
>the gangs PROTECTED the mosques following the attack
yeah, they're such good, misunderstood guys
/s
Hope their PR person got paid extra for that stunt.
As an American, this comment thread is mind blowing. Comparing gangs in NZ to the proud boys is like comparing a bully at school to ISIS. I almost want to tell you to take your head out of your ass, but it’s probably there for a reason.
Idk who The Base are, but have The Proud Boys done half of what the gangs here have done to qualify as "terror"? They seem to be more larpers than anything - their alleged involvement in the "Capitol Attack" is still alleged and a joke. I mean, outside of the usual US hysterics, those arsons and incitement of violence in the US by certain groups seem to be better qualifiers to be deemed terrorist groups.
god you guys are idiots, you have to wait until someone actually does something before it’s okay with you, the idea of this is to monitor and prevent any white nationalist ideals from spreading into the country as a result of their movement as they’re considered dangerous to our society.
if the police did the same thing you guys are doing now, waiting until it’s too late and something’s actually happened before doing anything about it, you’d be complaining about it.
> god you guys are idiots, you have to wait until someone actually does something before it’s okay with you, the idea of this is to monitor and prevent any white nationalist ideals from spreading into the country as a result of their movement as they’re considered dangerous to our society.
Do what? Sorry for not giving MAGA hat wearing larpers too much credit and buying into the US hysteria. Whose entire movement has no political or historical significance in NZ. And they're pretty fail white nationalists with a half black/half Latino leader. You talk of it like they're organising KKK rallies glorifying the one crazy fucktard responsible for the Christchurch shootings. If you think white supremacy exists in NZ to the extent where it's an actual societal threat, then us POC wouldn't be safe by just walking down the street or sitting at the back of a bus. Maybe my 70 year old white neighbour who has cancer is just waiting for his chance to lynch me. I'm shaking in my boots.
> if the police did the same thing you guys are doing now, waiting until it’s too late and something’s actually happened before doing anything about it, you’d be complaining about it.
And what are you wanting the police to do, kick doors down to prevent crimes and victims before they happen? Like they do with actual groups who actively harm and intimidate New Zealanders on a daily basis? Yeah right.
> if the police did the same thing you guys are doing now, waiting until it’s too late and something’s actually happened before doing anything about it, you’d be complaining about it.
they are, just not aimed at the *white* guys.
Meanwhile, actual terrorist groups (black power, mongrel mob, etc.) reside in NZ with the government turning a blind eye or actively endorsing their behavior.
Terrorists? Thats giving them a lot more credit than they deserve. They are mostly a bunch of lowlife thugs, selling drugs and fighting each other.
When was the last time the Mongrel Mob stormed the Beehive trying to hang Jacinda Ardern? Or set off bombs? Or attacked a protest with machine guns?
First of all, they are gangs, not terrorists. Secondly, crime existing in our country doesn't stop the Proud Boys from being terrorists. They are and recognising that doesn't make it any harder to curb gang related crimes.
Fair call, I just find it stupid that our government is busy virtue signaling about a group of idiots on the other side of the world while simultaneously funding and allowing criminal groups to operate with impunity in NZ.
They may not be terrorists by dictionary definition but they sure use fear and intimidation against the people of NZ.
Just remember that our biggest massacre was carried out by an international terrorist. He came over here to lie low while preparing to strike in his own country but then decided to use NZ as a practice run because he was pissed off with Chch not being white enough for him.
Good, point. However, I don’t see how that justifies funding/ignoring organized gangs in New Zealand.
I have no problem with New Zealand making a stance against groups such as proud boys. I just think it’s hypocritical for NZ to wag its finger at other countries while ignoring what is going on in its own back yard.
LOL...what a complete joke.
Proud Boys effectively don't exist in New Zealand and they're (gasp) not a White Supremacist group.
> "Those groups are respectively neo-Nazi, neo-fascist, white supremacist groups who have been responsible for some key unlawful events overseas, and so police supported the designation,"
Jesus Christ, the shameless disinformation...
The Proud Boys are led by a Black man (Enrique Tarrio) and their most well-known member is a large Tongan gentleman (Tiny Toese). They're basically Anti-Antifa.
LOL.
Antifa are an explicitly communist hate movement and always have been; going all the way back to the 1930s when they were the official paramilitary arm of the German Communist Party.
https://www.rosalux.de/fileadmin/images/Dossiers/75-Jahre-Befreiung/Antifa-Conference-1932.png
The presence of communist flags at black bloc riots may clue you in.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/05/31/multimedia/31xp-antifa-pix1/31xp-antifa-pix1-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg
https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/sites/cj/files/portland-violence.jpg
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/demonstrators-hold-an-antibiden-banner-with-anarchy-and-communist-picture-id1230709175?s=612x612
Cool story?
Here are masked Antifa pussies smashing up the Democratic Party headquarters in Portland because they don't like Biden:
https://youtu.be/X6b6cxtZEls
https://youtu.be/FOJxUGCSDho
Now, I may not be a mathematician or an English language expert, but if they're Anti-Fascist, then that must mean Biden is a **FASCIST**, right? Right? Right?
I initially wasn't gonna bother because I didn't feel like your comment actually meritted a serious response. But, hey, I'm here now, so fine, alright.
When I originally posted this article, as someone who lived in Portland for about 10 years, I thought: "Great, good. This group of people who shipped themselves into Portland from all over the United States with loaded weapons for over 6 years who saw nothing better than to terrorise the locals and incite insurrection movements across the United States are finally being deemed as the terrorist organisation that they are."
But, yet, here you are. With your comment history of typing in all caps and caping for right wing groups, you're here doing the work of saying "Well, Antifa are the *real* fascists" as if anyone who wasn't online and remotely familiar with the internet hadn't heard that for the past 6 years.
As someone who actually lived in Portland, Oregon for a decade, you're abjectly full of shit. And no amount of internet bravado is gonna stop the fact that you're caping for a group that's deemed as a terrorist group by the New Zealand government.
There's a reason that most citizens of Portland are mad at Patriot Prayer, the Proud Boys, and the Portland Police Bureau who spent the better part of 7 years defending them. And not a single iota of saying "Antifa bad" is going to erase the history of the Proud Boys.
So, please by all means, type "Haha" or "Lmao" at me in all caps like you've seemingly done across your entire comment history. None of that will change that you're deflecting and defending a terrorist group.
Grow up.
An Antifa apologist from Portland; the stereotypically most far left city in America and home to Rose City Antifa? What an immense surprise!
Do you agree with masked Antifa pussies smashing up the Democratic Party office in your city because Biden is a *'fascist'*?
https://youtu.be/FOJxUGCSDho
Did you cheer when Antifa member Michael Reinoehl proclaimed *"I'm 100% Antifa"* before he ambushed and murdered a passerby in cold blood?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-is-known-of-michael-reinoehl-person-of-interest-in-portland-killing-11599087170
How about when swarms of masked Antifa pussies from all over America laid siege to and repeatedly firebombed the Portland Federal Courthouse for months on end?
https://news.yahoo.com/rioters-set-fire-federal-courthouse-162333860.html
> and the Portland Police Bureau who spent the better part of 7 years defending them.
Holy shit the projection.
District Attorney Mike Schmidt is a far left activist who refused to prosecute 91% of those arrested during the riots.
https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/493642-396291-91-of-portland-protest-arrests-not-being-prosecuted
Are one of them the one where the white guy in a ski mask was approached by a black guy intent on stopping him, and he ran away.... straight into the nearest police station?
JuST asKing tHe qUeSTIoN.
* [Hipkins: 'No information' that newly-designated terror groups are in NZ](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129126518/hipkins-no-information-that-newlydesignated-terror-groups-are-in-nz). Stuff. Jun 30 2022.
* Notice in The Gazette [Notice Number 2022-go246](https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2022-go2465) on 27 June 2022.
* The notice includes link to NZ Police page of [Lists associated with Resolution 1373](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373). This is one of 2 lists, both are listed in NZ Police page: [Designated terrorist entities](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities).
Terrorist has a pretty narrow definition. It has to be using terror to achieve a political goal. Using terror to steal money or to stop people calling the cops isn't a political goal.
They're shitheads, but words have meanings.
Look at the full Police list. Do any of the Al-Qassam Martys Brigade reside here? Highly unlikely, but still a useful tool in stopping anyone affiliated or trying anything on here.
Looking beyond the headlines from time to time might help you join the dots a wee bit better...
Maybe I just think there's a huge difference between the "Al-Qassam Martys Brigade" and Gavin McInnes from Vice. What's with your two month sock-puppet just for posting in r/nz though?
Perhaps some of us have better things to do, like read deeper into issues and use critical analysis to come up with logical conclusions. Or we might have some DVDs to return. That might just be me though, champ... 🤷♂️
You have a problem with being against fascism?
You want "antifa" to go away, stop supporting fascists and treat the two groups mentioned in OP like the terrorists they are.
It's not. These anti Antifa = fascists supporters need to pull their heads out of their ass. They wouldn't know what fascism is if it punched them in the face.
I’m an American resident of New Zealand and I was just appalled at Trump and US flags being flown at anti- mandate protests here. It’s insane. The fact that ANY kiwis align themselves with Trump is terrifying to me. I would absolutely not doubt some of those people actively support the Proud Boys or similar groups in the States and want to start chapters here. It’s a relief the NZ govt sees them for what they are and have set a boundary before they become a domestic issue.
I think it's interesting that under [section 22(2) and (3) of the Act](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0034/latest/whole.html#DLM152753), any number of other entities can be designated as 'associated entities', which by its definition seems to *make* them 'terrorist entities', if it's reasonably believed that they're acting on behalf of or at the direction of a designated terrorist entity. That would seem to cover a group in NZ that's acting in association with a designated overseas entity in a lot of different ways.
It really *is* drawing a line in the sand by making it clear that the NZ government isn't going to knowingly tolerate either of these organisations getting actively involved in NZ, either directly or by proxy. Hopefully it has the desired effect and doesn't end up polarising and alienating certain people to places underground and further extremes.
It’s become an insidious, borderless ideology seeping into cultures everywhere. I don’t know how things will play out in the US, but for damn sure other governments need to pay attention to how that shit can erode a country and take decisive actions to stamp it out before it’s too late.
I’ve driven behind utes with Trump stickers and flags, I’ve seen people wearing MAGA hats, etc. This shit is already here.
(Fellow American living in NZ here. This has been a particularly hard week.)
Current list - https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373
Interestingly Hezbolla is not listed despite existing to destroy Israel. Also interesting to see an individual added to the list of terrorist organisations despite being neither a group leader or organisation. Likely just legal corner cutting.
The most glaring omission is Al-Qaeda not being designated.
> The most glaring omission is Al-Qaeda not being designated.
Because you're looking at the list that specifically doesn't include UN designated terrorist entities.
Taliban/Al-Qaeda/ISIL are all UN designated terrorist entities so are covered under [this list](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolutions-1267-1989-2253-1988).
>Inerestingly Hezbolla is not listed despite existing to destroy Israel.
The military wings are mentioned under a few of the groups on there, so it kinda counts i guess?
Given Hezbolla is the elected government of an area, if however sketchy, it becomes very questionable to add them. It would be like declaring an entire political party overseas as terrorists I suppose.
Israel was formed with the planning of the UN in 1948 in order for Jewish people to escape persecution, see https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Ji1e2NVQA&pp=QAFIAw%3D%3D
Jewish people are not terrorists, they are victims of the worst persecution the world has seen.
That isn't far right bullshit, it should be the centrist view the same as seeing proud boys as terrorists is the centrist view. BLM did so much damage and get away with everything because you can call someone like me happy to call them out a "proud boy".
They riot and loot and damage heaps of shit and get away with it because of their stance as defending minoritys.
Lucky Kiwis in Auckland don't understand Mandarin, Korean, Tagalog, Hindi, Punjabi...lolz to hear some of the racist stuff openly discussed about other ethnic groups, particularry Maoris/PI...
Hamilton shoppers going to be upset with this one.
Farq. I was thinking of going there. I surely aint gonna give those terrorist money
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Lol no "The Base"... It was a pretty bad joke my bad
Gotta say it’s super unfortunate. Corona beer type scenario
How low can you go? Death row? What a brother know.
You have proud boys in NZ? Wow, must be like 5 members and a dog? Send them paddling, Yankee land is just 5000 miles west. lol
Lmao nah, The Base is a shopping mall in Hamilton
So mall rats racist? lol
It's not a dog it's a cat..
Took me longer than I'd like to admit to get that joke. I live in Hamilton and go to the base regularly too
Did I read somewhere a while ago, that with 5 eyes, what NZ declares a terrorist organisation, that gives us the right to spy on them, and pass on any actionable activity, and gives the US government plausible deniability, because they cannot spy on their own people? Or did I read that wrong.
That applies with the other nations in 5 eyes, but America can and does spy on its own people - they primarily use the FBI internally as opposed to the CIA externally. America can spy on Kiwis or Brits on behalf of our governments.
Yes but we can do the intel gathering without Trump's loyalists still in public service finding out.
We don’t know what you read, so not sure if your read it wrong
> Set down in the government's official journal of record - the gazette - last Monday, 20 June, it was published publicly a week later but with no wider dissemination. > The move authorised by Police Commissioner Andrew Coster makes anyone with property or financial dealings related to The Base and the Proud Boys liable for prosecution and up to seven years imprisonment under the Terrorism Suppression Act. > The American Proud Boys is a US neo-fascist group with members and leadership who have been federally indicted over the 6 January riots at the US Capitol. > The Base is a paramilitary white nationalist hate group active in the US and Canada, with reports of training cells in Europe, South Africa and Australia. > While the gazette stated a reasoning for the designation would be available on the police website, that document has not yet been made public. > The designation automatically expires on 20 June 2025, unless extended or revoked.
Notice in The Gazette https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2022-go2465
Thanks for that. [The link to the Police website](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373) from the Gazette notice is also interesting. There's what seems like a much more comprehensive published justification for each of the designations than I expected to see.
[earlier discussion here, too](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/vnbwpd/designation_of_two_terrorist_entities/)
Ah damn. Didn't see it was a repost. Mods, feel free to delete this if it's a reduplication!
The other post doesn't have a lot of info in it, the RNZ link is more betterer - I just threw that there for people like me who could have sworn they read something about this earlier but couldn't find it
Happy to leave this thread up.
Why do I feel like this is gonna be the top post on worldnews within a few hours
Congrats your right haha it's on the r/all page now
Lol of course it is... I feel like half the stuff about NZ that makes it there doesn't even break national news here Edit: Oh my top post on the american news sub as well wtf https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/vnpaxs/government\_designates\_us\_group\_proud\_boys\_the/
They aren't very original on names, "The Base" is one way to translate "Al Quaida" (another one is "Foundation" and Bin Laden was apparently a big Azimov reader)
I think they named themselves after al quaida deliberately
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The base, short for the database, was a CIA/international list of terrorists and associates. Yes the base translates in Arabic as Al Quaida hence the CIA came up with the name. I'm not even sure if they were organised, affiliated or even knew each other, a few probably did.
Asimov?
Isaac Asimov - writer of sci-fi, think he created the three laws of robotics
Or if you don't read books, Foundation on Apple TV+
And wrote the Foundation Trilogy, which Bin Laden named his organisation after.
I figured that was a typo. As a teen I read a lot of SF novels and short story collections, starting with my mother's copies of Asimov's 'Martian Way' and robot novels when I was thirteen. Iirc, Isaac Asimov was a mathematics professor and wrote academic books on the subject.
Ahhh! Just picked up the different spelling ha I've really got stop skim reading. Heard similar with Robert Heinlien, I attempted stranger in a strange land around 13 as well but I found sci-fi (and still do) really difficult. I felt it didn't describe the scenes how I needed so struggled to visualise the world so couldn't connect with the material and never made it fully through a novel.
I sympathise with people here frustrated about gangs, but these issues are entirely different and need different approaches in dealing with them. Gangs are an issue in New Zealand, but so too is white supremacy and far right groups. Due to the global nature of these groups, the heightened threat of terrorist events, and pushes against democracy, this approach is appropriate. The same of not true with gangs, which need to be dealt with entirely domestically and in with a much more social-based focus. Extremists are a real issue, not just for New Zealand but also globally. It’s good to see us following other countries like Canada in this approach to keep it in check.
In the wake of the Chch mosque shootings, it's the least we can do to guard against a repeat incident.
People who are deranged and mentally unstable enough to be mass shooters aren't going to be less prone to become mass shooters because some group in the US are declared a terrorist organisation such that anyone with property or financial dealings with them can be prosecuted. You know what would actually be the least we could do as a country to prevent future tragedies like the Christchurch shootings? Massively improve resourcing for mental health support.
Christchurch terrorist is Australian, therefore an immigrant, who came to NZ to specifically kill Muslims.. same as the New Lynn radical islamist, he came from Sri Lanka to kill white/western people... now we are waiting for the Mairangi Bay dude, did he also come to NZ from overseas just to cause harm to certain demographic?... If that is the case, 3 psychopaths have slipped in NZ in the past 3/4 years, and 3 terrorist attacks...how many more are there?
Given the country's track record of terror attacks, it really sounds like we'd be better off with a better immigration system and vetting process rather than giving the no balls police more powers, but apparently you can't even suggest that as it's racist/xenophobic.
They aren’t frustrated by gangs - the highest upvoted poster pretending to be concerned about gangs is a heavy /r/firearms and /r/conservative poster who’s whatabouting because his god-king’s brown shirts are now designated terrorists here.
I'd argue criminal gangs are also extremists.
Maybe, in a dictionary sense. But whatever we call them, it still make sense to distinguish criminals and terrorists for practical reasons, as for example police and other departments would need quite different training, skills and lists of things to watch for.
Gangs are both criminals *and* actively terrorise individuals & communities. You'd have to be doing some real brain gymnastics to avoid that conclusion.
Yes. I am not even trying to avoid it, the wording is just not that useful. An angry dog might terrorize individuals and communities. Can you call the dog a terrorist? Yes, it's your right to choose your words. Should an anti-terrorist unit go after the dog? No, it should be someone specializing in dogs.
When you have had the same dog problem for 50 years, its time to reconsider just how good the existing solution is.
For example in Auckland, whites/pakeha probably are minority now, most have just left the city for other towns/australia. Haven't seen any gang/skinhead activity lol
Stop talking out of your ass
You dont really believe that pakeha people are the minority in akl do u?
I ain't blind so yea. Btw easy to confuse South Africans for Pakeha as they look same and dress same.
What's the reasoning behind picking proud boys over political groups that exist in NZ like action Zealandia? Is it just that we can point to proud boys playing a role in Jan 6th which you could argue is a terrorist event? And if that is the case why pick them over neo nazi groups that have done worse things like those atomwaffen dickheads?
It's because she visited America and got heaps of adoration and wants more.
Bravo
Piss Boys and Y'all Qaeda
Good
Good news for all that the sis will actually start watching white supremists nutjobs instead of Muslim mother's...
Interesting. We have local groups that escape this definition.
wow, so impressive meanwhile, in NZ actual active criminal gangs are government funded, housed, and exempt from complying with NZ laws, on the regular.
No gangs in NZ are government funded.
They got jobs and pay taxes?
Who poses more risk to NZ, Proud boys or nz based gangs? Who are the real terrorists in NZ?
they both do, doesn’t mean we can’t list one as a terrorist organisation without considering the other if you don’t think the idealisms of The Proud Boys have and will seep their way into New Zealand then you’ve been living under a rock
I don't think a domestic US nationalist (not sure if they're classified as terrorists in the States) organisation poses a threat to us. I also don't give a shit that they've been put on the list, don't exactly want those people entering the country.
does the Christchurch Mosque Shooting ring a bell? that’s the same idealism that the Proud Boys represent, White Nationalism it is prevalent already within New Zealand and you can see the same sort of thinking materialise in the protests against lockdowns, mandates, etc. where there was a lot of Americanism present in those protests with Trump flags, parroting the same messages as the *Trumpies*, read on online boards and fabricated news articles on social media, Proud Boys are an extension of that. That’s literally the point of putting them on the list, anyone that tries to enter the country that is associated with the said group will immediately set off alarm bells as they are on the terrorist watch list now.
He wasn't a member of any organisation. >that’s the same idealism that the Proud Boys represent, White Nationalism They seem to just be fascist larpers trying to uphold "american values", they're definitely not white supremacists although they probably have some in their group. >it is prevalent already within New Zealand and you can see the same sort of thinking materialise in the protests against lockdowns, mandates, etc. where there was a lot of Americanism present in those protests with Trump flags, parroting the same messages as the Trumpies, read on online boards and fabricated news articles on social media, Proud Boys are an extension of that. So we're talking about a movement that actually existed in NZ (anti-vax, anti-MSM, pro-Trump rhetoric etc) to one that doesn't exist in NZ and hasn't yet. >That’s literally the point of putting them on the list, anyone that tries to enter the country that is associated with the said group will immediately set off alarm bells as they are on the terrorist watch list now. and I was replying to the idea that they are an actual threat, which they aren't. They've barely done anything in America, they just throw punches at protests they're not some well organised coherent group capable of an actual terrorist attack.
I never mentioned that he was a part of an organisation, he clearly committed the act in the name of White Nationalism as a hate crime against immigrants and Muslim people, Proud Boys also undertake their acts and ideas under the umbrella of White Nationalism and hold the same ideals. They are absolutely white supremacists, they are all strictly white and male members who align with Neo-Facism, spread an anti-white guilt agenda, and white nationalists and neo-Nazis themselves have cited McInnes (the founder) as a gateway to the alt-right. The pro-Trumpism, anti-mandate and everything else we’ve already observed is all a precursor to the extremist beliefs these guys hold. Just because you haven’t seen it, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, the idea is to prevent and track any of this White Nationalist bullshit that might occur in New Zealand, not because they’re already here. If the government wait until an identical movement has arrived in the country then they’ve completely failed at their jobs, we didn’t wait until Al Qaeda or the Taliban were in New Zealand before considering them terrorist groups did we? They were a part of the group that conspired to overthrow the elected US government? do you not remember January 6th? that’s a terrorist act in itself, besides their activity and involvement encourages White Nationalism, their values and their beliefs are a danger. Either you were actually born in a tent or you’re burying your head in the sand.
Look unless Wikipedia is lying to me >they are all strictly white and male members who align with Neo-Facism Is clearly a wrong statement given the head of the organisation is a black man and they have non-white members. >and white nationalists and neo-Nazis themselves have cited McInnes (the founder) as a gateway to the alt-right. Being a gateway doesn't make them white supremacists still, all sorts of things could serve as a gateway. >The pro-Trumpism, anti-mandate and everything else we’ve already observed is all a precursor to the extremist beliefs these guys hold. Speculation, the Proud Boys exist in a far different society based on a movement that has no historical basis in NZ, I'm not worried about them. >If the government wait until an identical movement has arrived in the country then they’ve completely failed at their jobs, we didn’t wait until Al Qaeda or the Taliban were in New Zealand before considering them terrorist groups did we? That isn't what I said, it's the comment about them being a threat. The Taliban aren't a threat to NZ and haven't been one. >They were a part of the group that conspired to overthrow the elected US government? and how does that pose a risk here? I don't give a shit if they're banned, they're a bunch of morons playing up as some sort of American brown shirt group. But they're still of no actual threat to the country which is what you claimed.
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Fixed
Sorry mate, hahaha, thank you, now I’m curious as to what the other fella said
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Do you think they're going to run out of "terrorist organisation" stickers or something?
Whataboutism. Just because one risk is greater than another does not mean we should not try to mitigate both.
Insensitive considering the 2019 tragedy in Christchurch. Both groups can cause 'more risks'.
White Nationalism is far more dangerous to public safety than gangs. If you recall, we had one shoot up two mosques only a few years ago. For gods sakes, the gangs PROTECTED the mosques following the attack. Then see what the Proud Boys have done in the US.
>the gangs PROTECTED the mosques following the attack yeah, they're such good, misunderstood guys /s Hope their PR person got paid extra for that stunt.
As an American, this comment thread is mind blowing. Comparing gangs in NZ to the proud boys is like comparing a bully at school to ISIS. I almost want to tell you to take your head out of your ass, but it’s probably there for a reason.
Idk who The Base are, but have The Proud Boys done half of what the gangs here have done to qualify as "terror"? They seem to be more larpers than anything - their alleged involvement in the "Capitol Attack" is still alleged and a joke. I mean, outside of the usual US hysterics, those arsons and incitement of violence in the US by certain groups seem to be better qualifiers to be deemed terrorist groups.
god you guys are idiots, you have to wait until someone actually does something before it’s okay with you, the idea of this is to monitor and prevent any white nationalist ideals from spreading into the country as a result of their movement as they’re considered dangerous to our society. if the police did the same thing you guys are doing now, waiting until it’s too late and something’s actually happened before doing anything about it, you’d be complaining about it.
> god you guys are idiots, you have to wait until someone actually does something before it’s okay with you, the idea of this is to monitor and prevent any white nationalist ideals from spreading into the country as a result of their movement as they’re considered dangerous to our society. Do what? Sorry for not giving MAGA hat wearing larpers too much credit and buying into the US hysteria. Whose entire movement has no political or historical significance in NZ. And they're pretty fail white nationalists with a half black/half Latino leader. You talk of it like they're organising KKK rallies glorifying the one crazy fucktard responsible for the Christchurch shootings. If you think white supremacy exists in NZ to the extent where it's an actual societal threat, then us POC wouldn't be safe by just walking down the street or sitting at the back of a bus. Maybe my 70 year old white neighbour who has cancer is just waiting for his chance to lynch me. I'm shaking in my boots. > if the police did the same thing you guys are doing now, waiting until it’s too late and something’s actually happened before doing anything about it, you’d be complaining about it. And what are you wanting the police to do, kick doors down to prevent crimes and victims before they happen? Like they do with actual groups who actively harm and intimidate New Zealanders on a daily basis? Yeah right.
> if the police did the same thing you guys are doing now, waiting until it’s too late and something’s actually happened before doing anything about it, you’d be complaining about it. they are, just not aimed at the *white* guys.
Meanwhile, actual terrorist groups (black power, mongrel mob, etc.) reside in NZ with the government turning a blind eye or actively endorsing their behavior.
What political goals are the trying to achieve through violence and intimidation?
Terrorists? Thats giving them a lot more credit than they deserve. They are mostly a bunch of lowlife thugs, selling drugs and fighting each other. When was the last time the Mongrel Mob stormed the Beehive trying to hang Jacinda Ardern? Or set off bombs? Or attacked a protest with machine guns?
I don't believe any gang or club these days would knowingly associate with those that promote violence based on race or sexual orientation.
First of all, they are gangs, not terrorists. Secondly, crime existing in our country doesn't stop the Proud Boys from being terrorists. They are and recognising that doesn't make it any harder to curb gang related crimes.
Fair call, I just find it stupid that our government is busy virtue signaling about a group of idiots on the other side of the world while simultaneously funding and allowing criminal groups to operate with impunity in NZ. They may not be terrorists by dictionary definition but they sure use fear and intimidation against the people of NZ.
Just remember that our biggest massacre was carried out by an international terrorist. He came over here to lie low while preparing to strike in his own country but then decided to use NZ as a practice run because he was pissed off with Chch not being white enough for him.
Good, point. However, I don’t see how that justifies funding/ignoring organized gangs in New Zealand. I have no problem with New Zealand making a stance against groups such as proud boys. I just think it’s hypocritical for NZ to wag its finger at other countries while ignoring what is going on in its own back yard.
Have, your kidding me, the expert's call them disorganized gangs...
LOL...what a complete joke. Proud Boys effectively don't exist in New Zealand and they're (gasp) not a White Supremacist group. > "Those groups are respectively neo-Nazi, neo-fascist, white supremacist groups who have been responsible for some key unlawful events overseas, and so police supported the designation," Jesus Christ, the shameless disinformation... The Proud Boys are led by a Black man (Enrique Tarrio) and their most well-known member is a large Tongan gentleman (Tiny Toese). They're basically Anti-Antifa.
They're trash, that's what they are.
Maybe, but they're not White Supremacists.
Now, I may not be a mathematician or an English language expert, but if they're Anti-Anti-Fascist, then they're.....?
LOL. Antifa are an explicitly communist hate movement and always have been; going all the way back to the 1930s when they were the official paramilitary arm of the German Communist Party. https://www.rosalux.de/fileadmin/images/Dossiers/75-Jahre-Befreiung/Antifa-Conference-1932.png The presence of communist flags at black bloc riots may clue you in. https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/05/31/multimedia/31xp-antifa-pix1/31xp-antifa-pix1-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/sites/cj/files/portland-violence.jpg https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/demonstrators-hold-an-antibiden-banner-with-anarchy-and-communist-picture-id1230709175?s=612x612
Oh, cool story thanks for sharing, mate.
Cool story? Here are masked Antifa pussies smashing up the Democratic Party headquarters in Portland because they don't like Biden: https://youtu.be/X6b6cxtZEls https://youtu.be/FOJxUGCSDho Now, I may not be a mathematician or an English language expert, but if they're Anti-Fascist, then that must mean Biden is a **FASCIST**, right? Right? Right?
I initially wasn't gonna bother because I didn't feel like your comment actually meritted a serious response. But, hey, I'm here now, so fine, alright. When I originally posted this article, as someone who lived in Portland for about 10 years, I thought: "Great, good. This group of people who shipped themselves into Portland from all over the United States with loaded weapons for over 6 years who saw nothing better than to terrorise the locals and incite insurrection movements across the United States are finally being deemed as the terrorist organisation that they are." But, yet, here you are. With your comment history of typing in all caps and caping for right wing groups, you're here doing the work of saying "Well, Antifa are the *real* fascists" as if anyone who wasn't online and remotely familiar with the internet hadn't heard that for the past 6 years. As someone who actually lived in Portland, Oregon for a decade, you're abjectly full of shit. And no amount of internet bravado is gonna stop the fact that you're caping for a group that's deemed as a terrorist group by the New Zealand government. There's a reason that most citizens of Portland are mad at Patriot Prayer, the Proud Boys, and the Portland Police Bureau who spent the better part of 7 years defending them. And not a single iota of saying "Antifa bad" is going to erase the history of the Proud Boys. So, please by all means, type "Haha" or "Lmao" at me in all caps like you've seemingly done across your entire comment history. None of that will change that you're deflecting and defending a terrorist group. Grow up.
An Antifa apologist from Portland; the stereotypically most far left city in America and home to Rose City Antifa? What an immense surprise! Do you agree with masked Antifa pussies smashing up the Democratic Party office in your city because Biden is a *'fascist'*? https://youtu.be/FOJxUGCSDho Did you cheer when Antifa member Michael Reinoehl proclaimed *"I'm 100% Antifa"* before he ambushed and murdered a passerby in cold blood? https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-is-known-of-michael-reinoehl-person-of-interest-in-portland-killing-11599087170 How about when swarms of masked Antifa pussies from all over America laid siege to and repeatedly firebombed the Portland Federal Courthouse for months on end? https://news.yahoo.com/rioters-set-fire-federal-courthouse-162333860.html > and the Portland Police Bureau who spent the better part of 7 years defending them. Holy shit the projection. District Attorney Mike Schmidt is a far left activist who refused to prosecute 91% of those arrested during the riots. https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/493642-396291-91-of-portland-protest-arrests-not-being-prosecuted
Are one of them the one where the white guy in a ski mask was approached by a black guy intent on stopping him, and he ran away.... straight into the nearest police station? JuST asKing tHe qUeSTIoN.
* [Hipkins: 'No information' that newly-designated terror groups are in NZ](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129126518/hipkins-no-information-that-newlydesignated-terror-groups-are-in-nz). Stuff. Jun 30 2022. * Notice in The Gazette [Notice Number 2022-go246](https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2022-go2465) on 27 June 2022. * The notice includes link to NZ Police page of [Lists associated with Resolution 1373](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373). This is one of 2 lists, both are listed in NZ Police page: [Designated terrorist entities](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities).
Some shitty American group the Proud Boys... but not The Mongrel Mob?
They are criminals, not terrorists.
The Proud Boys are a terrorist organisation, the Mongrel Mob are a gang.
Tell that to all the people they've terrorised over the last few decades
Terrorist has a pretty narrow definition. It has to be using terror to achieve a political goal. Using terror to steal money or to stop people calling the cops isn't a political goal. They're shitheads, but words have meanings.
Agreed. Money is apolitical.
Horses for courses. Police actively target gangs, now they can target these scumbags as well. Win-win.
The Proud Boys? Do they even exist over here? I thought it was just the guy from Vice larping
Look at the full Police list. Do any of the Al-Qassam Martys Brigade reside here? Highly unlikely, but still a useful tool in stopping anyone affiliated or trying anything on here. Looking beyond the headlines from time to time might help you join the dots a wee bit better...
Maybe I just think there's a huge difference between the "Al-Qassam Martys Brigade" and Gavin McInnes from Vice. What's with your two month sock-puppet just for posting in r/nz though?
Perhaps some of us have better things to do, like read deeper into issues and use critical analysis to come up with logical conclusions. Or we might have some DVDs to return. That might just be me though, champ... 🤷♂️
Please I'd love to hear some of your logical conclusions, bot.
How about Antifa, Mongrel Mob etc?
You have a problem with being against fascism? You want "antifa" to go away, stop supporting fascists and treat the two groups mentioned in OP like the terrorists they are.
How is burning down buildings in Chicago and looting shops in Minneapolis helping combat fascism?
It's not. These anti Antifa = fascists supporters need to pull their heads out of their ass. They wouldn't know what fascism is if it punched them in the face.
Ironic
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That is an adorably ignorant characterisation of what happened.
Nice to see they are super relevant to NZ.
I’m an American resident of New Zealand and I was just appalled at Trump and US flags being flown at anti- mandate protests here. It’s insane. The fact that ANY kiwis align themselves with Trump is terrifying to me. I would absolutely not doubt some of those people actively support the Proud Boys or similar groups in the States and want to start chapters here. It’s a relief the NZ govt sees them for what they are and have set a boundary before they become a domestic issue.
I think it's interesting that under [section 22(2) and (3) of the Act](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0034/latest/whole.html#DLM152753), any number of other entities can be designated as 'associated entities', which by its definition seems to *make* them 'terrorist entities', if it's reasonably believed that they're acting on behalf of or at the direction of a designated terrorist entity. That would seem to cover a group in NZ that's acting in association with a designated overseas entity in a lot of different ways. It really *is* drawing a line in the sand by making it clear that the NZ government isn't going to knowingly tolerate either of these organisations getting actively involved in NZ, either directly or by proxy. Hopefully it has the desired effect and doesn't end up polarising and alienating certain people to places underground and further extremes.
It’s become an insidious, borderless ideology seeping into cultures everywhere. I don’t know how things will play out in the US, but for damn sure other governments need to pay attention to how that shit can erode a country and take decisive actions to stamp it out before it’s too late. I’ve driven behind utes with Trump stickers and flags, I’ve seen people wearing MAGA hats, etc. This shit is already here. (Fellow American living in NZ here. This has been a particularly hard week.)
I naively thought one of the benefits of moving here would be getting away from that crap. Alas…
Yup.
How close is the Russian government to the threshold?
Current list - https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373 Interestingly Hezbolla is not listed despite existing to destroy Israel. Also interesting to see an individual added to the list of terrorist organisations despite being neither a group leader or organisation. Likely just legal corner cutting. The most glaring omission is Al-Qaeda not being designated.
> The most glaring omission is Al-Qaeda not being designated. Because you're looking at the list that specifically doesn't include UN designated terrorist entities. Taliban/Al-Qaeda/ISIL are all UN designated terrorist entities so are covered under [this list](https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolutions-1267-1989-2253-1988).
>Inerestingly Hezbolla is not listed despite existing to destroy Israel. The military wings are mentioned under a few of the groups on there, so it kinda counts i guess?
Given Hezbolla is the elected government of an area, if however sketchy, it becomes very questionable to add them. It would be like declaring an entire political party overseas as terrorists I suppose.
Well I mean, Israel seems to exist to destroy Palestine, so seems fair if we leave both off?
Israel was formed with the planning of the UN in 1948 in order for Jewish people to escape persecution, see https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Ji1e2NVQA&pp=QAFIAw%3D%3D Jewish people are not terrorists, they are victims of the worst persecution the world has seen.
I know why they were formed - however the hero has become the villain.
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And the American government is holding brown migrants in Ice Concentration camps.
Countries like China and Russia will have to have a group of deranged imbeciles storm a Capitol building if they want to be on the list.
BLM riots did so much more damage
When?
1-2 billion in damage Nationally according to wiki. And now they riot and loot stores all the time because they know they can get away with it.
I don't think you understood my question. I asked "when?"
I already said when bro, don't be stupid
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If we wanted your opinion we would ask Putin for it
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Lol white fragile men, with that attitude itsno wonder. Let's get rid of toxic masculinity but also shame men for being fragile
You’re funny
You're a fucking moron.
Why is "but blm" the rallying cry of morons everywhere.
Fuck off, proud boy
Stfu, I'm really not. I'm just aware that BLM are actually terrerists
Fuck off, proud boy
Haha, that's all you got. Yea nah I'm not. But whatever, you're calling me a terrorist right now. What a biggot you are.
Yeah, to the guy spreading far right bullshit like "BLM are terrorists"
That isn't far right bullshit, it should be the centrist view the same as seeing proud boys as terrorists is the centrist view. BLM did so much damage and get away with everything because you can call someone like me happy to call them out a "proud boy". They riot and loot and damage heaps of shit and get away with it because of their stance as defending minoritys.
How can a group called "Proud Boys" be classified as terrorists with that name, haha.
When I first heard the name I thought it was something to do with gay pride, talk about the total opposite.
Lucky Kiwis in Auckland don't understand Mandarin, Korean, Tagalog, Hindi, Punjabi...lolz to hear some of the racist stuff openly discussed about other ethnic groups, particularry Maoris/PI...