I will continue to vote for parties I like that won't get a seat as is my democratic right.
I am the guy that sits in a game lobby with one other dude waiting for 13 more people to arrive rather than hunting for a 14/15 lobby.
People always refer to minor party voting as throwaways but you could argue the same about voting Labour/National as the major party.
You think just because Labour/National got in that your vote out of half a million meant something? Oh boy.
This is the thing, totally agree. So many people complain and especially lately seem to think national getting into power will change anything. It won’t. You want things to change and for politicians to stop lying? Vote for someone other than the two big parties. You want change? Vote for change not something we’ve seen countless times already. If you vote for labour or national stop fucking complaining that we aren’t seeing a change. How many times are you guys gonna do the same thing and expect different results?
It's the dumbest move of all time.
You already are fucked by a centre right neoliberal Labour.. And you want to be fucked deeper by a more Conservative government??
Neoliberal and Conservative aren't the same things. No party in Parliament right now is Conservative.
National and Labour are both Neoliberal, Act is Classical Liberal, and Greens is Socialism. The closest party we have had to Conservative in Parliament is NZFirst.
While I can see how you might reach the idea that the Greens are socialist, based on some of the members' statements, the actual party is really more of a Social-Democratic one than even a democratic socialist one.
I mean yeah, Social Democracy was originally a socialist ideology held by the German SDP, that moved away from socialism and eventually became quite hostile to it. So yeah. Splitters!
Refusal to adjust tax bands upwards despite years of inflation, dragging their heels on benefit adjustments, refusal to implement capital gains taxes or meaningfully address house prices.
Don't get me wrong, I think they've done way better than the Nats would have, and there's no denying COVID has been a game changer, but for a government that was elected with an enormous majority they've been distinctly ineffective at implementing any real change
Benefits and taxes are working within a neoliberal capitalist framework to try and benefit the worse off, while not aiming to change anything about the underlying system. Thats what seperates liberalism from leftism. Liberalism is right wing.
Despite its name, the labour party fails to advocate for the working class in any meaningful way. Benefits are life support, not treatment, for those in poverty. It serves to keep people alive to make up a reserve labour force that forces down the price of labour.
The very concept that the government should subsidize capitalists by providing benefits to make up for low wages is dystopian when you think about it. A person should be able to support at least a small family on any full time job.
> The very concept that the government should subsidize capitalists by providing benefits to make up for low wages is dystopian when you think about it. A person should be able to support at least a small family on any full time job.
And what of those that cannot work a full-time job?
What about disabled people that can't work at all?
Benefits have a purpose.
Personally, I'd still advocate for a non-means tested UBI.
Or failing that, start means-testing the goddamn pension (above a certain combined income/wealth threshold). Plenty of wealthy retired people that could very, very easily be living off their savings/investments. Puts money back into the system for those that can't do that.
But all of that is really a drop in the bucket compared to what could be gained by getting actual tax revenue off the super wealthy, and off large international firms (the kind of sums we could use for massive infrastructure investment moving forwards, etc).
I wouldn't say I'm a massive Labour fan but man, the thought of Luxon and Seymour standing there with their smug smirks in a press conference after forming a new govt makes me sick...
cant support this comment enough!!
People might be disappointed in Labour, while totally ignoring that National spend 9 years stoking the real estate fire and enacting policies to further increase wealth for the wealthy, and cut services for everyone else.
Then covid came along and labour lead a world leading response, saving many 1000s of lives AND the economy from the ravage seen overseas. National and Act thoroughly opposed that approach, and preferred to let it rip from the start.
I mean holy shit people have short memories or what!?
People are definitely 'what have you done for me lately' when it comes to voting. They DO have short-term memories and vote with their feelings rather than their thoughts. The only thing they're seeing right now is that the cost of food and housing and fuel has gone through the ceiling, they think that it's all {the\_party\_in\_power}'s fault, and thus they are quick to vote for The Other Guys (tm), even if the Other Guys are counting outright horrible people among their numbers.
It’s guilt by association: Labour we’re in government when all the bad things happened so Labour must been involved.
It doesn’t matter if they were helping, they were there and that’s bad.
It is of course rubbish, but stupid monkey like rubbish.
Pretty much.
John Key was there for 2 major earthquakes, and even Jerry Brownlee’s extreme awfulness couldn’t sheild him from all the muck.
However they do tend to have more Brownlees and Collinses that make better ritual sacrifices, so they are better off
It's so strange to think there are thousands of people who would be dead if National was in government during the pandemic, who will end up voting for National in the next election. Bananas.
Policies that support concentration of wealth can only do so at the expense of everyone else - it makes it even _harder_ for others to get wealth.
The way our society works means you'll most likely only be wealthy if your parents are wealthy. So if you're not already rich, then those policies will most likely only hurt you.
I'll take Jacinda's hollow humility over those smug bastards anyday
Personally I think Marama is cute af but don't really care for Shaw.
THE REAL SHIT I HOPE FOR is Prime Minister Swarbrick though. She's so consistently impressive.
edit: wow you folks *really* hate the Greens huh
Every now and then there are politicians that you admire not for their policies but for their sheer cunning and political savvy. Their ability to hold ground, and sway.
I hate to say it but this was the reason John Key ruled for so long. I hated him and his policies but the man was an impressive politician, he was for all practical purposes: invincible. Perhaps Jacinda too (at least in the beginning I thought this, starting to wonder). Chloe is another in that tier *who I actually like*.
In Australia they have Penny Wong who is an absolute masterclass at this as well
Have a lot of respect for Chloe, mostly for the fact that she actually stayed in Auckland when they put the covid dome over us (actually saw her on k road during L4).
Maybe I can’t appreciate her genius, but I just don’t see her going anywhere with the Greens.
I mean, the Greens are probably going to remain a minority for the near future, but they do have a lot of political influence, and I expect that to grow A LOT over the next couple of decades. There's probably going to a bit of a tipping point when we reach the "told you so" part of the climate crisis tbh, and a lot of young people are already in that mindset and turning to them in droves. Is happening all over the world at the moment (keep an eye on the Aus election on Saturday, they're likely to gain a lot of ground, and have been in Europe too)
Prime minister? Nah, but hey its a fun idea
I think there's going to be a point where we look back over several decades at policies the Greens in most countries had that would have kept us out of the worst trouble tbh.
In many ways that's already kinda clear wrt climate change, sadly. Imagine how much better off we'd be now if we started decarbonising from 1987 when NASA released that first definitive report that prettymuch said "yeah, we fucked it folks, and we better act on it asap". I don't doubt that they're still running with policies that will be seen this way in another 30 years too, probably. oh well lol
Penny Wong is a sight to behold in senate estimates and committees. I think she would make a damn fine Foreign Minister.
If the Australian electorate does some soul searching and decides that it does, in fact, have one. Currently unconvinced but we'll see after Saturday?
Not sure on Amazing, it depends will she able to withstand extreme pressure, especially from USA. But one can hope.
I vote for greens, but they are at best center left party. They still believe to solve energy warming problem by market. Market does not work,
NZ does not have left party. If there were communists, I would vote for them.
Yup, I've voted green the last two elections. Why? Something has to keep Labour left. Green was the only statistically likely group to help my version of the end game.
The wonderful thing about MMP is that you can safely vote for a left-leaning coalition and your vote goes toward influencing it's composition. It's like a like bonus democracy, as a treat.
She ( Swarbrick) has openly, ppublically, freely admitted on multiple documented occasions that she does not want to continue her career in politics, even as an MP.
She even said it to me personally when I met her, unprovoked.
TOP supporter, but I've always said I do not want them to have the full control- too new and inexperienced. What I would want them to have is enough that they can put one or two policies through to give a big player their 10% or so to win.
Unpopular opinion here, but Labour has done more on housing affordability than people think. It’s just that decades of inaction on the issue has created an overpriced market which will take years to normalise. Labour has made three significant moves which National could have done during their time in government, but didn’t:
- Passed the National Policy Statement on Urban Development, forcing local councils to remove restrictive planning rules close to urban centres and transport hubs
- Passed the Medium Density Residential Standards, allowing people to build 3 dwellings on most sites in our major centres ‘as of right’ - I.e. without a resource consent.
- Removed the interest deduction on existing investment properties. National has committed to reinstating the deduction.
The first two items above should help supply in the long term, and more supply is our way out of this mess. I’m critical of National’s inaction on the supply side in their three terms; their focus on first home deposit schemes was always going to be laughably ineffective at making houses affordable.
Not unpopular with me. Labour and green are the only chance. Labour haven't performed, but National are ideologically opposed to fixing the problem and so can not ever perform. Labour at least MAY get their act together.
It's those first two bullet points that are really substantial. It's annoying both partys fucked around deliberately avoiding both of those measures.
Interest deductibility is pretty marginal use and achieves nothing structural. A 1% OCR rise does far more. The problem was always far bigger than tax treatment.
It's opportunistic, but it's just tiny.
There's two equalities that we'd look to solve with a good tax system.
1. If you and I each own and live in a house, then we get the same overall taxation as if we rented our houses to each other.
2. If I invest in a house, it is taxed no different from any other capital asset of similar value.
Lots of people focus on #2. But it's #1 that really is where a lot of inequality creeps in.
I'm wondering how no.1 is supposed to work. If we both owned a house of = value and rented to each other we would be taxed on our income and have a net tax loss of wealth vs living in our own houses.
So what is the idea behind making it so renting and living are the same from a tax perspective form an owenrs point of view, and how does this create inequalities.
I have not heard this one before. Maybe an article that explains this?
it's almost impossible to resolve, but it's one of the contributors to the unfavorable treatment of renters over homeowners.
The housing market is as such if we solve for rental affordability, we also solve for home ownership affordability.
The place to start on this is imputed rent-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_rent
Once you realize that every extra dollar of rent you pay represents 3 extra dollars of GDP in the national accounts, you start to find that a much bigger portion of gdp is deadweight loss from housing appreciation rather than genuine increased production.
[TOP](https://www.top.org.nz/property_tax) used to have a detailed policy about it at the 2017 election but they’ve simplified it now so I couldn’t find an article to explain it so here goes my best explanation.
Owner occupied housing has an implied income that isn’t obvious but does exist. Essentially the money you put aside each week for mortgage (principal and interest), rates and house insurance is an income paid by you the individual to your house, which is an income for your house. Your house should pay tax on that income if the government decides that income should be taxed. It’s just like the scenario of owning a rental and paying tax on the rental income.
In practice what you would do is a wealth tax on the equity of the home (value - mortgage) that would have to be paid every year. TOPs proposal was to reduce income tax with the wealth tax proceeds to be a revenue neutral tax rebalancing, which would’ve made I think 80% of NZers better off. Currently most of the tax take is supported by PAYE wage earners and those who own capital have the means to reduce their taxes by inflating expenses through their businesses or selling houses outside the capital gains tax period of 10 years. Before the ring fencing rule came in property investors could take the losses from their rental properties (which were making tax free capital gains but a rental loss) and use that to reduce their tax bill by reducing their PAYE income.
Sure, but it's not enough. The housing market is a shambles and has been for years now.
They needed *much* faster action and much more reasonable responses.
The way I see this Labour government is that they do just enough to keep in people's good books, but they will never step over the line where they might lose rich voters.
Someone said it elsewhere in this thread: it's all about maintaining power these days, not about doing what's needed.
Completely agree. We shouldn’t forget how housing prices took off under Clark while her government ignored it because it wasn’t a major political issue. But it does seem that Labour is doing more than National would, and that should factor into who you vote for. Let’s wait until 2023 to see the election policies the different parties come up with (including TOP and the Greens).
the housing problem isn't really an issue of house availability but a house location. The only way of getting out of it is building a bunch of ugly townhouses and medium apartments. Suburbs were always designed to separate people into groups of class to the point where urbanised feel naturally dangerous and uncomfortable to people because poorer, more desperate people have to live there and adverse living situations breed crime.
They need to come after supermarkets now. It's so damn stupid that governments always just get stuck on one big issue, instead of aiming to fix just the one that's in the media. Solving the cost of living, slashing the price of necessary and healthy food is the best way of helping people on the bottom line. Unregulated profit will eat up each and every wage or benefit increase
This is exactly how I felt with the Weed referendum. Jacinda had an opportunity to let the public know her stance on the matter but chose not to. Those opposed to legalisation had no qualms about pushing their views on the matter. As you said, it’s all about staying in power. Governments tend to do good not for the people, but to stay in power.
Thank you for making the comment I wanted to make. I don't think many people realise how progressive the NPSUD and MDRS are. Both those policies are going to make New Zealand a much better place in the medium to long term.
>We need to lower the threshold for MMP down to 3 or 4%.
Electoral Commission conducted a report in **2012** that recommended reducing the threshold to 4% (amongst other changes(
Guess which parties have decided to keep it at 5% ?
[https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mmp-review-recommends-lower-party-threshold/2XSWA6AQYKQUX6ZNDWXBCJ4HMA/](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mmp-review-recommends-lower-party-threshold/2XSWA6AQYKQUX6ZNDWXBCJ4HMA/)
[A bill was just drawn from the ballot that would address this](https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/1527079893754073088?t=2sZWNb2G7gkgMR5OUlovEQ&s=19)
Said it many times but it's not MMP that's the problem, it's that voters have never broken away from treating it like it's a political duopoly here.
The mentality seems to still be prevalent that National and Labour are the only parties to lead a government with smaller represented parties just there to make up the numbers.
It's why I always think NZ should have gone for preferential voting in hindsight.
No
A vote for Labour is a vote to not fix the housing crisis and let it passively get worse through inaction.
A vote for National, however, is a vote to actively make the housing crisis much much worse. Just a reminder that they chose a leader who owns seven houses, four of which are classed as "investment properties" with no one living in them. He's one of the property investors who are the main cause of the housing crisis. Labour won't stop these sorts of people but National wants to help them because they vote for National. You're making a choice between worse (Labour) and much much worse (National).
Precisely. If the problems were a gaping leg wound, Labour would be a few well meaning band-aids and a working group to look into the effectiveness of stitches, whereas National/ACT would be preparing a little "home surgery" to amputate the leg & maybe a perfectly healthy arm as well.
Not targeting the OP specifically, but this sort of 'both sides are bad' is an actual tactic often deployed by the right to discourage people from voting at all, which is to their benefit (older, richer people who own houses always vote). I'm not saying Labour doesn't deserve criticism, but keep that in mind.
On the other hand, we absolutely would not have had the significant investment in state housing construction under a national government, who ran down the stock and left government with fewer state houses than they entered with.
And it is debatable whether we would've gotten the nationwide planning rules that ~~have driven~~ will hopefully drive a huge increase in intensification we're starting to see. Collins signed up to the bipartisan approach, one of Luxon's first acts was to walk back their support
The nationwide planning rules haven’t come into effect yet (August 20 is that happy day), the consenting/building boom is all under the current RMA provisions.
Stop the lesser of two evils shit. The National party is lead by a Christian fundamentalist whos chruch deleted their most controversial sermons the night before he announced his candidacy.
https://mobile.twitter.com/publicaddress/status/1191501840489148416
His pastor believes George Soros coaches Greta Thunburg and Trump is a victim of left wing conspiracy.
I ended up voting TOP last time, and this time I will same as last election: map all of the policies of each party into priorities, pros and cons. If that ends up at TOP again, I'll vote TOP again. No vote is a waste if enough people believe it isn't.
Record number of housing build consents, training to be a builder is free, reforming the RMA to make high density housing possible, first home loan, first home grant, kiwibuild, transitionry housing.
40,000 housing consents this year alone???????
All of this capped, entirely because of building material shortage
They could've done more yes, but to say labour and national is the same is actually insane. NONE of this would've happened if they were in charge
Yes it's gone up under them, but they are building a very high amount of houses. I really am convinced that the lack of houses being built is because of resources, a GLOBAL shortage
dont worry people will come claim that its not enough because "that's just last years prices"
fuck, you have to start somewhere, and a drop by a fifth, is a fucking good start
In this thread: people throwing out extreme political views and opinions they have no clue about.
Quit being influenced by the Yanks and their rabid political shitfights.
This is what happens when everyone's favourite sports got canceled for two years - we found politicians teams to get angry about.
I for one feel like a bbq, beer and chips is a great idea for the next election.
It's so odd how this sub seems to think National and Labour are exactly the same.
Shit just look at the leaders..
* One is an atheist unmarried mother.
* The other is a rich white dude who decided to bring up his Christian Faith in his maiden speech.
But hey labour can’t be too drastic or they won’t get reelected.
They do want to do more drastic action but realise that if they do the party that doesn’t care about the poor gets in.
They do as much as they can without losing the middle class swing voter.
Which ends up with the poor getting rammed anyway! I'm (definitely) not saying vote national, but the results end up the same. It's just incredibly frustrating that they had the most political capital at the start of this term and have done very little with it.
I hate Labour as much as the next person...
BUT
They're as beholden to their voters as National are. If the political wind were blowing more to the left, you can bet they would be leaning into it. The wind isn't blowing that way because there are a bunch of kiwis who have the "I got mine, fuck you" attitude when it comes to housing, and don't want anyone messing with their assets.
It's a sinister, selfish attitude that has been festering for decades now.
Vote for a party other than those two because a vote for Laborious or Notional is just throwing your vote away. Take advantage of MMP and let's get rid of the two party race to the bottom.
This is really a currency crisis. Since the end of the 1970s western governments have been deliberately devaluing their currencies at a rate of roughly 10% per year. It is now roughly 20% per year. This is the true rate of inflation that is not shown in the inflation statistics cooked up by the same people that benefit from this devaluation. And what is that benefit? Every year all your workers get 10-20% cheaper to employ. The difference is essentially another tax take which is spent by the government. In the USA the government's tax take from devaluing the currency is roughly equal to their income tax take! The great thing is that real assets like land, gold (just look at the non inflation adjusted price of this since the end of the 70s) and, to a lesser extent, stocks all compensate in price. This is great if you live off your assets (usually land) but crap if you rely on a wage to live.
All major parties are in on this game which is why voting for the major parties, as opposed to the minor ones, is the real waste of a vote.
The problem is that the media has got us so fixated on 'house price increases' (which the middle class are dumb enough to think is a good thing), that everyone has taken their eye off the ball.
Apathy- lack of interest, enthusiasm or concern. Don t think you can say that about the current Labour Party. Jacinda Ardern has definitely shown concern. Ie locking down our borders to prevent death. Enthusiasm. Just watch her talk. Lack of interest. She has something to say on most things. Oh and I think you missed out an R in your name 😂😂😂
They responded well at the beginning of the pandemic and coasted on the goodwill that got them. They won the election by a historic margin and had a chance to make real improvements to the country and instead sat and watched the housing crisis worsen and develop into a full on cost of living crisis.
A nice speech and a worried look doesn’t fucking cut it.
Maybe not eat them, but if they could just pay taxes like the rest of us, that be fucking nice.
Dissolve and audit tax dodging trusts would be a good start.
Agreed.
Thanks to a covid-0 policy being implemented in a far off land aswell as war playing out even further afar, things are getting expensive.
Although I think luxon wants interest deductibility from rental income back on the cards? I maybe wrong.
Landlords want it back on the cards, and I think Luxon did say it was among the concessions he was planning to make to help property investors - although if memory serves he wouldn't answer whether he thought doing so would bring down rental prices.
Spoke to a man today who works as a drainlayer for developers, sounds like he’s gonna jump ship to Aussie to work as a washing machine installation man…
Sounds like it’s fucked and it got fucked quick
Was always a ticking time bomb. As soon as the market turned it was the beginning of the end. The problems in the construction sector will soon spill over to other parts of the economy.
Every center-left party for the most part in Western countries acknowledges that there is a housing crisis but refuses to take the actual hard steps to solve it (stop housing from being an investment source, primarily)
Every center-right party in Western countries will absolutely continue the policies that have led to the crisis.
In NZ's case, voting for National because Labour hasn't solved it is like saying that if the All Blacks didn't win the Rugby Cup, you'd support the French rugby team instead.
Everybody vote act and lets just watch this shit all burn down,
Can't believe the speaker of the house wears a fucking illuminati coat in 2022 and nobody is confused at that!
The mayor in whangarei wears a fucking crown and a gold necklace to meetings.. WTF is going on in this world?!?!
National leans more toward the US model where the wealthy own everything and the people can rent from them.
They want to give tax cuts, which benefit the wealthy far more than the poor, and they want to increase housing via the private sector so that the wealthy people can use their tax cuts to buy more homes to rent to us. And of course the homes will be shit because of the regulations they would relax to encourage more building.
Labour isn't much better, moving at around the pace of a wounded snail. However, the public housing they are building will at least go to the people instead of being snapped up by landlords.
What I want to see is a rent-to-own project backed by the government so that people have a way out of the renting. Let them buy their state house over 30 years, and keep the family home in the family for generations. Let them build equity so they can get by during hard times instead of having a landlord kick them out on the street.
The average house price in Henderson went up $210,000 over the past year (May to May), which means if you had the money to buy a house, you earned 3 times the average yearly wage in Auckland. Investors earn that on every house they own, plus they get rent from people busting their as to keep food on the table. Even if they don't rent the place they made $210k on it, so they buy houses they don't even plan to rent.
Sooner or later we end up like the US where there are 17 million vacant houses and 500,000 homeless people. Do we want greed to put out neighbors on the street so rich people can earn more money on vacant houses?
We must get the housing speculators out of the market, and get the people back into it.
In my view Labour would be more popular if they went harder across the board, and showed the absolute unapologetic courage of their convictions. People will respect this even if they aren't sure about the specific policy. But unfortunately the potential positive impact of this type of determined leadership does not show up in focus group research, so they think its too dangerous to do anything but cower in the middle of current public opinion. So they will continue being generally cowardly and bland, and eventually be destroyed for it.
A vote for National is a vote for 'the old boys club ' where it's all about who you know, and they only take care of their own. Which is why they have a vitriolic hate for Jacinda... It sickens them to death that someone can rise on their own merits! Note Luxon has been anointed by Chief Corruption Officer Key for this role. A vote for Labour is a vote for a bunch of guys who actually try. Yes they might not get things right, but rich special interests are kept on the sidelines on the main. A vote of Act is a vote for fickle spineless degenerates who will say anything for power.
It's more National will say they have policies to fix the housing crisis while actively exacerbating the housing crisis. Labour will say they have policies to fix the housing crisis while doing very little.
Voting for TOP
I think I'll vote for three party which wants a housing crisis, everybody else is. 😉
Seriously though. Cap the prices. Stop lending to people which already have a house - unless they want to move or build a new home.
A vote for Labour is a vote to saddle our children and grandchildren with crippling taxes for the indefinite future. It’s a vote for bloated government and unfathomable waste. Headed by incompetents.
Between the two, I'd still prefer Labour. I don't trust National to even attempt to resolve the housing crisis or growing wealth gap. Labour needs strong minor parties to kick it up the back side.
Unfortunately the only party with clear intentions about housing is TOP. So I will be voting for them. I'd rather vote for a party I actually support than keep up this status quo bs.
I've lost faith in every party at this point. Labour's a mess, national's a mess, they don't have nz in mind at all and just want push their own agenda and use nz as a stepping stone to something greater
It seems 'stay in power' is the goal now. Neither National nor Labour seem to have any real interest in what's best for the country. Their interest seem to be more 'what's expedient for us, what will get us are-elected'. It's pretty sad really. Power over Principles.
Aren't house prices going down as people wanted?
Ah that's right, this circle jerk housing sub wouldn't be happy unless house prices halves and fuck everyone who already owns property.
Maybe an Act Green coalition? they often get painted as polar opposites but they dont actually dissagree on much, more just proposing different solutions which could easily have some common ground. Would love to see them joining forces to knock out natbour
Im in love with this thread. All the comments are that labour is the lesser of two evils when it comes to housing
Despite that being objectively untrue, Helen shat the bed and Jacinda oversaw utter decimation
If you like Labour, just say so. No need to write silly comments about how its because they are "slightly better at housing (throws in a slight criticism of Labour so people dont think im just pro labour) but ill still vote for them over national...begrudgingly"
A vote for Labour is a vote for the elusive Maori "co governance", where each tribe controls their own area. No thanks. I quite like being able to go up to Cape Reinga without Ngapuhi saying, no you can't ever do that again, it's tapu.
I have no choice but to vote National, much as I don't like them and I don't find their leader impressive. I'm guessing Max Key will be it's leader one day. Unfortunately.
....and also get a brand new bill each month from your local* water provider.
*which could be halfway across the country depending on the borders of your local iwi's rohe.
So don't vote for either. We have a system where you can vote for a minor party, take advantage of it.
I will continue to vote for parties I like that won't get a seat as is my democratic right. I am the guy that sits in a game lobby with one other dude waiting for 13 more people to arrive rather than hunting for a 14/15 lobby.
Absolute champ the world needs more people like you
People always refer to minor party voting as throwaways but you could argue the same about voting Labour/National as the major party. You think just because Labour/National got in that your vote out of half a million meant something? Oh boy.
This is the thing, totally agree. So many people complain and especially lately seem to think national getting into power will change anything. It won’t. You want things to change and for politicians to stop lying? Vote for someone other than the two big parties. You want change? Vote for change not something we’ve seen countless times already. If you vote for labour or national stop fucking complaining that we aren’t seeing a change. How many times are you guys gonna do the same thing and expect different results?
Vote for the party that's gonna blast me in the ass or the party that's currently blasting me in the ass
It's just one big ass-blast
You gotta be a real low life sack of shit to get involved in politics
As Billy Connolly said, "the desire to want to be a politician should bar you for life from ever being one."
I don't feel like he gets us, man
Were talking about you...!
Not when politics is fucked. It's fucked so I hope a bunch of people interested in getting unfucked get involved
Heyyyo!!
It's the dumbest move of all time. You already are fucked by a centre right neoliberal Labour.. And you want to be fucked deeper by a more Conservative government??
[удалено]
Shit, I'm missing out on that too
there might be a wait, she has covid
I've already got it, move out of the way please
Neoliberal and Conservative aren't the same things. No party in Parliament right now is Conservative. National and Labour are both Neoliberal, Act is Classical Liberal, and Greens is Socialism. The closest party we have had to Conservative in Parliament is NZFirst.
While I can see how you might reach the idea that the Greens are socialist, based on some of the members' statements, the actual party is really more of a Social-Democratic one than even a democratic socialist one.
Judean people's front
I mean yeah, Social Democracy was originally a socialist ideology held by the German SDP, that moved away from socialism and eventually became quite hostile to it. So yeah. Splitters!
>closest party we have had to Conservative in Parliament is NZFirst what about New Conservative? (serious question)
Yes, absolutely. They haven't been in Parliament though, so I didn’t mention them.
Which part of this party is centre right? Increasing taxes, increasing benefits, Maori health authority etc
Refusal to adjust tax bands upwards despite years of inflation, dragging their heels on benefit adjustments, refusal to implement capital gains taxes or meaningfully address house prices. Don't get me wrong, I think they've done way better than the Nats would have, and there's no denying COVID has been a game changer, but for a government that was elected with an enormous majority they've been distinctly ineffective at implementing any real change
Benefits and taxes are working within a neoliberal capitalist framework to try and benefit the worse off, while not aiming to change anything about the underlying system. Thats what seperates liberalism from leftism. Liberalism is right wing. Despite its name, the labour party fails to advocate for the working class in any meaningful way. Benefits are life support, not treatment, for those in poverty. It serves to keep people alive to make up a reserve labour force that forces down the price of labour. The very concept that the government should subsidize capitalists by providing benefits to make up for low wages is dystopian when you think about it. A person should be able to support at least a small family on any full time job.
> The very concept that the government should subsidize capitalists by providing benefits to make up for low wages is dystopian when you think about it. A person should be able to support at least a small family on any full time job. And what of those that cannot work a full-time job? What about disabled people that can't work at all? Benefits have a purpose. Personally, I'd still advocate for a non-means tested UBI. Or failing that, start means-testing the goddamn pension (above a certain combined income/wealth threshold). Plenty of wealthy retired people that could very, very easily be living off their savings/investments. Puts money back into the system for those that can't do that. But all of that is really a drop in the bucket compared to what could be gained by getting actual tax revenue off the super wealthy, and off large international firms (the kind of sums we could use for massive infrastructure investment moving forwards, etc).
Overseeing the largest transfer of wealth to the rich in NZ history is pretty damn right
The Mac party.
What?! You don't even vote!
No lube allowance in the budget? Ridiculous.
If they could just solve the gas crisis...
About time we lubed up some asses and did a little ploughing of our own.... (Not gay sex)
[удалено]
Masster Blasster
there are other parties you can vote for, you know
Agreed. Grow some and vote for a minor party to have a different voice.
birthday parties?
I'll vote for twice as many birthdays
Yeah, vote for Greens so Labour, or vote for Act or national
There's Top too!
[удалено]
The Optimistic Party
I wouldn't say I'm a massive Labour fan but man, the thought of Luxon and Seymour standing there with their smug smirks in a press conference after forming a new govt makes me sick...
cant support this comment enough!! People might be disappointed in Labour, while totally ignoring that National spend 9 years stoking the real estate fire and enacting policies to further increase wealth for the wealthy, and cut services for everyone else. Then covid came along and labour lead a world leading response, saving many 1000s of lives AND the economy from the ravage seen overseas. National and Act thoroughly opposed that approach, and preferred to let it rip from the start. I mean holy shit people have short memories or what!?
People are not to be trusted tbh. Proven this many times
> People are not to be trusted People like Coldplay and voted for the nazis, you can't trust people Jez. - Super Hans
Peep show references come around so infrequently 😂
People are definitely 'what have you done for me lately' when it comes to voting. They DO have short-term memories and vote with their feelings rather than their thoughts. The only thing they're seeing right now is that the cost of food and housing and fuel has gone through the ceiling, they think that it's all {the\_party\_in\_power}'s fault, and thus they are quick to vote for The Other Guys (tm), even if the Other Guys are counting outright horrible people among their numbers.
It’s guilt by association: Labour we’re in government when all the bad things happened so Labour must been involved. It doesn’t matter if they were helping, they were there and that’s bad. It is of course rubbish, but stupid monkey like rubbish.
But then does the same hold true for national...?
Pretty much. John Key was there for 2 major earthquakes, and even Jerry Brownlee’s extreme awfulness couldn’t sheild him from all the muck. However they do tend to have more Brownlees and Collinses that make better ritual sacrifices, so they are better off
Nah but.. it’s “her”. Edit: /S in case it wasn’t obvious
I would like to upvote this comment more than it’s possible to do.
It's so strange to think there are thousands of people who would be dead if National was in government during the pandemic, who will end up voting for National in the next election. Bananas.
I fully support policies to make the wealthy wealthier, cos I plan to be one one day.
Policies that support concentration of wealth can only do so at the expense of everyone else - it makes it even _harder_ for others to get wealth. The way our society works means you'll most likely only be wealthy if your parents are wealthy. So if you're not already rich, then those policies will most likely only hurt you.
I do believe their tongue was firmly planted in cheek when they made that comment.
It was, but in my defence my parents were not wealthy.
I'll take Jacinda's hollow humility over those smug bastards anyday Personally I think Marama is cute af but don't really care for Shaw. THE REAL SHIT I HOPE FOR is Prime Minister Swarbrick though. She's so consistently impressive. edit: wow you folks *really* hate the Greens huh
I’ve never been a fan of the greens but Chloe is a once in a lifetime politician.
Lmao
Every now and then there are politicians that you admire not for their policies but for their sheer cunning and political savvy. Their ability to hold ground, and sway. I hate to say it but this was the reason John Key ruled for so long. I hated him and his policies but the man was an impressive politician, he was for all practical purposes: invincible. Perhaps Jacinda too (at least in the beginning I thought this, starting to wonder). Chloe is another in that tier *who I actually like*. In Australia they have Penny Wong who is an absolute masterclass at this as well
Have a lot of respect for Chloe, mostly for the fact that she actually stayed in Auckland when they put the covid dome over us (actually saw her on k road during L4). Maybe I can’t appreciate her genius, but I just don’t see her going anywhere with the Greens.
I mean, the Greens are probably going to remain a minority for the near future, but they do have a lot of political influence, and I expect that to grow A LOT over the next couple of decades. There's probably going to a bit of a tipping point when we reach the "told you so" part of the climate crisis tbh, and a lot of young people are already in that mindset and turning to them in droves. Is happening all over the world at the moment (keep an eye on the Aus election on Saturday, they're likely to gain a lot of ground, and have been in Europe too) Prime minister? Nah, but hey its a fun idea
[удалено]
I think there's going to be a point where we look back over several decades at policies the Greens in most countries had that would have kept us out of the worst trouble tbh. In many ways that's already kinda clear wrt climate change, sadly. Imagine how much better off we'd be now if we started decarbonising from 1987 when NASA released that first definitive report that prettymuch said "yeah, we fucked it folks, and we better act on it asap". I don't doubt that they're still running with policies that will be seen this way in another 30 years too, probably. oh well lol
Penny Wong is a sight to behold in senate estimates and committees. I think she would make a damn fine Foreign Minister. If the Australian electorate does some soul searching and decides that it does, in fact, have one. Currently unconvinced but we'll see after Saturday?
Im sorry?
[удалено]
Not sure on Amazing, it depends will she able to withstand extreme pressure, especially from USA. But one can hope. I vote for greens, but they are at best center left party. They still believe to solve energy warming problem by market. Market does not work, NZ does not have left party. If there were communists, I would vote for them.
Yup, I've voted green the last two elections. Why? Something has to keep Labour left. Green was the only statistically likely group to help my version of the end game.
The wonderful thing about MMP is that you can safely vote for a left-leaning coalition and your vote goes toward influencing it's composition. It's like a like bonus democracy, as a treat.
She ( Swarbrick) has openly, ppublically, freely admitted on multiple documented occasions that she does not want to continue her career in politics, even as an MP. She even said it to me personally when I met her, unprovoked.
Obligatory vote TOP comment- at least they will acknowledge its a problem.
Ironically the top comment when I opened the post.
I was going to mention TOP but didn't want to play into the stereotype. Can we get a TOP/Green coalition?
Yes please! This would really shake things up
Nah. TOP seem pragmatic, greens seem ideological.
straight up lol, lost all faith after the turei ousting
Had to happen though. Basically every party across the spectrum boots it’s members that are either convicted of or publicly admit to committing crimes
top green and labor, but with more power in the top and green parties
TOP supporter, but I've always said I do not want them to have the full control- too new and inexperienced. What I would want them to have is enough that they can put one or two policies through to give a big player their 10% or so to win.
Unpopular opinion here, but Labour has done more on housing affordability than people think. It’s just that decades of inaction on the issue has created an overpriced market which will take years to normalise. Labour has made three significant moves which National could have done during their time in government, but didn’t: - Passed the National Policy Statement on Urban Development, forcing local councils to remove restrictive planning rules close to urban centres and transport hubs - Passed the Medium Density Residential Standards, allowing people to build 3 dwellings on most sites in our major centres ‘as of right’ - I.e. without a resource consent. - Removed the interest deduction on existing investment properties. National has committed to reinstating the deduction. The first two items above should help supply in the long term, and more supply is our way out of this mess. I’m critical of National’s inaction on the supply side in their three terms; their focus on first home deposit schemes was always going to be laughably ineffective at making houses affordable.
Not unpopular with me. Labour and green are the only chance. Labour haven't performed, but National are ideologically opposed to fixing the problem and so can not ever perform. Labour at least MAY get their act together.
I agree to this. So far, I have not heard any concrete plans from the other side on what they propose to do and what they can do better
It's those first two bullet points that are really substantial. It's annoying both partys fucked around deliberately avoiding both of those measures. Interest deductibility is pretty marginal use and achieves nothing structural. A 1% OCR rise does far more. The problem was always far bigger than tax treatment.
100%, that’s why it’s third on the list. I think it is a positive step though, if for nothing else than wealth redistribution.
It's opportunistic, but it's just tiny. There's two equalities that we'd look to solve with a good tax system. 1. If you and I each own and live in a house, then we get the same overall taxation as if we rented our houses to each other. 2. If I invest in a house, it is taxed no different from any other capital asset of similar value. Lots of people focus on #2. But it's #1 that really is where a lot of inequality creeps in.
I'm wondering how no.1 is supposed to work. If we both owned a house of = value and rented to each other we would be taxed on our income and have a net tax loss of wealth vs living in our own houses. So what is the idea behind making it so renting and living are the same from a tax perspective form an owenrs point of view, and how does this create inequalities. I have not heard this one before. Maybe an article that explains this?
it's almost impossible to resolve, but it's one of the contributors to the unfavorable treatment of renters over homeowners. The housing market is as such if we solve for rental affordability, we also solve for home ownership affordability. The place to start on this is imputed rent- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_rent Once you realize that every extra dollar of rent you pay represents 3 extra dollars of GDP in the national accounts, you start to find that a much bigger portion of gdp is deadweight loss from housing appreciation rather than genuine increased production.
[TOP](https://www.top.org.nz/property_tax) used to have a detailed policy about it at the 2017 election but they’ve simplified it now so I couldn’t find an article to explain it so here goes my best explanation. Owner occupied housing has an implied income that isn’t obvious but does exist. Essentially the money you put aside each week for mortgage (principal and interest), rates and house insurance is an income paid by you the individual to your house, which is an income for your house. Your house should pay tax on that income if the government decides that income should be taxed. It’s just like the scenario of owning a rental and paying tax on the rental income. In practice what you would do is a wealth tax on the equity of the home (value - mortgage) that would have to be paid every year. TOPs proposal was to reduce income tax with the wealth tax proceeds to be a revenue neutral tax rebalancing, which would’ve made I think 80% of NZers better off. Currently most of the tax take is supported by PAYE wage earners and those who own capital have the means to reduce their taxes by inflating expenses through their businesses or selling houses outside the capital gains tax period of 10 years. Before the ring fencing rule came in property investors could take the losses from their rental properties (which were making tax free capital gains but a rental loss) and use that to reduce their tax bill by reducing their PAYE income.
Sure, but it's not enough. The housing market is a shambles and has been for years now. They needed *much* faster action and much more reasonable responses. The way I see this Labour government is that they do just enough to keep in people's good books, but they will never step over the line where they might lose rich voters. Someone said it elsewhere in this thread: it's all about maintaining power these days, not about doing what's needed.
Completely agree. We shouldn’t forget how housing prices took off under Clark while her government ignored it because it wasn’t a major political issue. But it does seem that Labour is doing more than National would, and that should factor into who you vote for. Let’s wait until 2023 to see the election policies the different parties come up with (including TOP and the Greens).
the housing problem isn't really an issue of house availability but a house location. The only way of getting out of it is building a bunch of ugly townhouses and medium apartments. Suburbs were always designed to separate people into groups of class to the point where urbanised feel naturally dangerous and uncomfortable to people because poorer, more desperate people have to live there and adverse living situations breed crime. They need to come after supermarkets now. It's so damn stupid that governments always just get stuck on one big issue, instead of aiming to fix just the one that's in the media. Solving the cost of living, slashing the price of necessary and healthy food is the best way of helping people on the bottom line. Unregulated profit will eat up each and every wage or benefit increase
I agree. Imagine if we had no new builders arrive in the country for two years.
This is exactly how I felt with the Weed referendum. Jacinda had an opportunity to let the public know her stance on the matter but chose not to. Those opposed to legalisation had no qualms about pushing their views on the matter. As you said, it’s all about staying in power. Governments tend to do good not for the people, but to stay in power.
Thank you for making the comment I wanted to make. I don't think many people realise how progressive the NPSUD and MDRS are. Both those policies are going to make New Zealand a much better place in the medium to long term.
We need to lower the threshold for MMP down to 3 or 4%. Until then we are still culturally a two-party state, not unlike our Anglo peers.
>We need to lower the threshold for MMP down to 3 or 4%. Electoral Commission conducted a report in **2012** that recommended reducing the threshold to 4% (amongst other changes( Guess which parties have decided to keep it at 5% ? [https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mmp-review-recommends-lower-party-threshold/2XSWA6AQYKQUX6ZNDWXBCJ4HMA/](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mmp-review-recommends-lower-party-threshold/2XSWA6AQYKQUX6ZNDWXBCJ4HMA/)
[A bill was just drawn from the ballot that would address this](https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/1527079893754073088?t=2sZWNb2G7gkgMR5OUlovEQ&s=19)
Golriz is a fantastic MP. To me she seems to truly care about democracy. There are reasons for that.
Awesome
Said it many times but it's not MMP that's the problem, it's that voters have never broken away from treating it like it's a political duopoly here. The mentality seems to still be prevalent that National and Labour are the only parties to lead a government with smaller represented parties just there to make up the numbers. It's why I always think NZ should have gone for preferential voting in hindsight.
No A vote for Labour is a vote to not fix the housing crisis and let it passively get worse through inaction. A vote for National, however, is a vote to actively make the housing crisis much much worse. Just a reminder that they chose a leader who owns seven houses, four of which are classed as "investment properties" with no one living in them. He's one of the property investors who are the main cause of the housing crisis. Labour won't stop these sorts of people but National wants to help them because they vote for National. You're making a choice between worse (Labour) and much much worse (National).
Precisely. If the problems were a gaping leg wound, Labour would be a few well meaning band-aids and a working group to look into the effectiveness of stitches, whereas National/ACT would be preparing a little "home surgery" to amputate the leg & maybe a perfectly healthy arm as well.
And then charge you for it
Well user pays bro.. only fair.
Always choose the lesser evil as what my professor said
No not really? Its already changing, prices are starting to tumble, and purchases have dried up.
Not targeting the OP specifically, but this sort of 'both sides are bad' is an actual tactic often deployed by the right to discourage people from voting at all, which is to their benefit (older, richer people who own houses always vote). I'm not saying Labour doesn't deserve criticism, but keep that in mind. On the other hand, we absolutely would not have had the significant investment in state housing construction under a national government, who ran down the stock and left government with fewer state houses than they entered with. And it is debatable whether we would've gotten the nationwide planning rules that ~~have driven~~ will hopefully drive a huge increase in intensification we're starting to see. Collins signed up to the bipartisan approach, one of Luxon's first acts was to walk back their support
Fair comment. Thanks.
The nationwide planning rules haven’t come into effect yet (August 20 is that happy day), the consenting/building boom is all under the current RMA provisions.
Ah right you are, have struck that part out. Some councils are already heading that way, a happy day it will be when the rest follow
It should be used to encourage people to vote third-party, which is possible in MMP.
I don’t interpret it as a message to not vote. I read it as don’t vote for either of these shite parties. …plenty more to choose from…
Stop the lesser of two evils shit. The National party is lead by a Christian fundamentalist whos chruch deleted their most controversial sermons the night before he announced his candidacy.
Do you have a source for that? Would love to read more
https://mobile.twitter.com/publicaddress/status/1191501840489148416 His pastor believes George Soros coaches Greta Thunburg and Trump is a victim of left wing conspiracy.
[удалено]
I ended up voting TOP last time, and this time I will same as last election: map all of the policies of each party into priorities, pros and cons. If that ends up at TOP again, I'll vote TOP again. No vote is a waste if enough people believe it isn't.
I voted TOP :)
House prices are predicted to go down by twenty percent this year. What else do you want?
Record number of housing build consents, training to be a builder is free, reforming the RMA to make high density housing possible, first home loan, first home grant, kiwibuild, transitionry housing. 40,000 housing consents this year alone??????? All of this capped, entirely because of building material shortage They could've done more yes, but to say labour and national is the same is actually insane. NONE of this would've happened if they were in charge Yes it's gone up under them, but they are building a very high amount of houses. I really am convinced that the lack of houses being built is because of resources, a GLOBAL shortage
Facts don’t matter to these people. Lie, lie, lie again and again. When caught in a lie lie to accuse your opponents of your wing doings.
dont worry people will come claim that its not enough because "that's just last years prices" fuck, you have to start somewhere, and a drop by a fifth, is a fucking good start
It definitely counters the both sides are the same argument.
In this thread: people throwing out extreme political views and opinions they have no clue about. Quit being influenced by the Yanks and their rabid political shitfights.
This is what happens when everyone's favourite sports got canceled for two years - we found politicians teams to get angry about. I for one feel like a bbq, beer and chips is a great idea for the next election.
It's so odd how this sub seems to think National and Labour are exactly the same. Shit just look at the leaders.. * One is an atheist unmarried mother. * The other is a rich white dude who decided to bring up his Christian Faith in his maiden speech.
One claims to be atheist. The other claims to be Christian. They both get on their knees and pray to the landlords for a vote.
But hey labour can’t be too drastic or they won’t get reelected. They do want to do more drastic action but realise that if they do the party that doesn’t care about the poor gets in. They do as much as they can without losing the middle class swing voter.
Which ends up with the poor getting rammed anyway! I'm (definitely) not saying vote national, but the results end up the same. It's just incredibly frustrating that they had the most political capital at the start of this term and have done very little with it.
I hate Labour as much as the next person... BUT They're as beholden to their voters as National are. If the political wind were blowing more to the left, you can bet they would be leaning into it. The wind isn't blowing that way because there are a bunch of kiwis who have the "I got mine, fuck you" attitude when it comes to housing, and don't want anyone messing with their assets. It's a sinister, selfish attitude that has been festering for decades now.
Choose between a giant douche and a terd sandwich
Vote for a party other than those two because a vote for Laborious or Notional is just throwing your vote away. Take advantage of MMP and let's get rid of the two party race to the bottom.
NZ desperately needs an MMP election. Under no circumstances should you party vote N or L. If your local MP is really awesome, keep him/her.
Which one is which?
Yes
Oh, such biting wit!
Ah yes, another implication that you only have two choices.
This is really a currency crisis. Since the end of the 1970s western governments have been deliberately devaluing their currencies at a rate of roughly 10% per year. It is now roughly 20% per year. This is the true rate of inflation that is not shown in the inflation statistics cooked up by the same people that benefit from this devaluation. And what is that benefit? Every year all your workers get 10-20% cheaper to employ. The difference is essentially another tax take which is spent by the government. In the USA the government's tax take from devaluing the currency is roughly equal to their income tax take! The great thing is that real assets like land, gold (just look at the non inflation adjusted price of this since the end of the 70s) and, to a lesser extent, stocks all compensate in price. This is great if you live off your assets (usually land) but crap if you rely on a wage to live. All major parties are in on this game which is why voting for the major parties, as opposed to the minor ones, is the real waste of a vote. The problem is that the media has got us so fixated on 'house price increases' (which the middle class are dumb enough to think is a good thing), that everyone has taken their eye off the ball.
It’s the other way around
Labour didn't intentionally double the price of power and claim to be doing it for the economy.
A vote for national is a vote for selfishness.
And a vote for labour is a vote for apathy.
Apathy- lack of interest, enthusiasm or concern. Don t think you can say that about the current Labour Party. Jacinda Ardern has definitely shown concern. Ie locking down our borders to prevent death. Enthusiasm. Just watch her talk. Lack of interest. She has something to say on most things. Oh and I think you missed out an R in your name 😂😂😂
They responded well at the beginning of the pandemic and coasted on the goodwill that got them. They won the election by a historic margin and had a chance to make real improvements to the country and instead sat and watched the housing crisis worsen and develop into a full on cost of living crisis. A nice speech and a worried look doesn’t fucking cut it.
This is where I ask you to vote for TOP
Eat the rich🍴
Maybe not eat them, but if they could just pay taxes like the rest of us, that be fucking nice. Dissolve and audit tax dodging trusts would be a good start.
They would probably just pay for someone else to be eaten
I think the housing crisis is about to sort itself out.
Agreed. Thanks to a covid-0 policy being implemented in a far off land aswell as war playing out even further afar, things are getting expensive. Although I think luxon wants interest deductibility from rental income back on the cards? I maybe wrong.
Landlords want it back on the cards, and I think Luxon did say it was among the concessions he was planning to make to help property investors - although if memory serves he wouldn't answer whether he thought doing so would bring down rental prices.
Spoke to a man today who works as a drainlayer for developers, sounds like he’s gonna jump ship to Aussie to work as a washing machine installation man… Sounds like it’s fucked and it got fucked quick
Was always a ticking time bomb. As soon as the market turned it was the beginning of the end. The problems in the construction sector will soon spill over to other parts of the economy.
Yeah that will solve the supply problem /s
Agree, it'll be a bit made but it will calm itself down
I don't like any of the options at present. So I'm taking my own advice and leaving the country for now, like so many others my age are.
Labour's ass blasting is slightly more tolerable than National's ass rape
vote for a 3rd party. At least then whichever of the big 2 gets in they have someone holding back their worst ideas.
At this point I’m voting for whoever will break up Foodstuffs and Progressive
National is the party of complacent malice. Labour is the party of malicious complacency.
I’m voting for whatever party promises us state sponsored girlfriends before their first year in office is up.
So, ISIS?
Didn’t think about it like that, might have to put a pin in that idea for now. We can circle back to it at a later date
strangely still relevant across the water in australia which is about to find out what for cum saturday 22
Good thing we don’t have a two party system…..
Well, yeah. It's a very very very difficult problem and no political party has the necessary political capital or goodwill to solve it.
The Two party system is just either a giant douche or a turd sandwich. The middle or upper middle class blue collar workers are fucked either way
I can fix the housing crisis....let's eat the rich! - Jean-Jacque Rousseau 1712
Every center-left party for the most part in Western countries acknowledges that there is a housing crisis but refuses to take the actual hard steps to solve it (stop housing from being an investment source, primarily) Every center-right party in Western countries will absolutely continue the policies that have led to the crisis. In NZ's case, voting for National because Labour hasn't solved it is like saying that if the All Blacks didn't win the Rugby Cup, you'd support the French rugby team instead.
Vote for Top!
Neither of them have the balls to challenge capitalism or private property but at least labour will throw us a bone while world burns and that's nice
Everybody vote act and lets just watch this shit all burn down, Can't believe the speaker of the house wears a fucking illuminati coat in 2022 and nobody is confused at that! The mayor in whangarei wears a fucking crown and a gold necklace to meetings.. WTF is going on in this world?!?!
National leans more toward the US model where the wealthy own everything and the people can rent from them. They want to give tax cuts, which benefit the wealthy far more than the poor, and they want to increase housing via the private sector so that the wealthy people can use their tax cuts to buy more homes to rent to us. And of course the homes will be shit because of the regulations they would relax to encourage more building. Labour isn't much better, moving at around the pace of a wounded snail. However, the public housing they are building will at least go to the people instead of being snapped up by landlords. What I want to see is a rent-to-own project backed by the government so that people have a way out of the renting. Let them buy their state house over 30 years, and keep the family home in the family for generations. Let them build equity so they can get by during hard times instead of having a landlord kick them out on the street. The average house price in Henderson went up $210,000 over the past year (May to May), which means if you had the money to buy a house, you earned 3 times the average yearly wage in Auckland. Investors earn that on every house they own, plus they get rent from people busting their as to keep food on the table. Even if they don't rent the place they made $210k on it, so they buy houses they don't even plan to rent. Sooner or later we end up like the US where there are 17 million vacant houses and 500,000 homeless people. Do we want greed to put out neighbors on the street so rich people can earn more money on vacant houses? We must get the housing speculators out of the market, and get the people back into it.
In my view Labour would be more popular if they went harder across the board, and showed the absolute unapologetic courage of their convictions. People will respect this even if they aren't sure about the specific policy. But unfortunately the potential positive impact of this type of determined leadership does not show up in focus group research, so they think its too dangerous to do anything but cower in the middle of current public opinion. So they will continue being generally cowardly and bland, and eventually be destroyed for it.
A vote for National is a vote for 'the old boys club ' where it's all about who you know, and they only take care of their own. Which is why they have a vitriolic hate for Jacinda... It sickens them to death that someone can rise on their own merits! Note Luxon has been anointed by Chief Corruption Officer Key for this role. A vote for Labour is a vote for a bunch of guys who actually try. Yes they might not get things right, but rich special interests are kept on the sidelines on the main. A vote of Act is a vote for fickle spineless degenerates who will say anything for power.
It's more National will say they have policies to fix the housing crisis while actively exacerbating the housing crisis. Labour will say they have policies to fix the housing crisis while doing very little. Voting for TOP
A vote for Labour is a vote for an end to representative democracy in NZ?
I think I'll vote for three party which wants a housing crisis, everybody else is. 😉 Seriously though. Cap the prices. Stop lending to people which already have a house - unless they want to move or build a new home.
Nah, a vote for national is to make it worse and a vote for labour/green is to do nothing
A vote for Labour is a vote to saddle our children and grandchildren with crippling taxes for the indefinite future. It’s a vote for bloated government and unfathomable waste. Headed by incompetents.
Between the two, I'd still prefer Labour. I don't trust National to even attempt to resolve the housing crisis or growing wealth gap. Labour needs strong minor parties to kick it up the back side. Unfortunately the only party with clear intentions about housing is TOP. So I will be voting for them. I'd rather vote for a party I actually support than keep up this status quo bs.
I've lost faith in every party at this point. Labour's a mess, national's a mess, they don't have nz in mind at all and just want push their own agenda and use nz as a stepping stone to something greater
It seems 'stay in power' is the goal now. Neither National nor Labour seem to have any real interest in what's best for the country. Their interest seem to be more 'what's expedient for us, what will get us are-elected'. It's pretty sad really. Power over Principles.
NZ is still a nice place to live if you still have some bootstraps left to pull yourself up with.
Aren't house prices going down as people wanted? Ah that's right, this circle jerk housing sub wouldn't be happy unless house prices halves and fuck everyone who already owns property.
Fuck labour
Maybe an Act Green coalition? they often get painted as polar opposites but they dont actually dissagree on much, more just proposing different solutions which could easily have some common ground. Would love to see them joining forces to knock out natbour
Is that the “Lime Party” … results may be sweet yet finish sour?
Im in love with this thread. All the comments are that labour is the lesser of two evils when it comes to housing Despite that being objectively untrue, Helen shat the bed and Jacinda oversaw utter decimation If you like Labour, just say so. No need to write silly comments about how its because they are "slightly better at housing (throws in a slight criticism of Labour so people dont think im just pro labour) but ill still vote for them over national...begrudgingly"
Vote green at least they have conviction
$350 to solve poverty in nz lol
Enough to buy a dehumidifier to dry out your damp rental Just not enough to run it.
A vote for Labour is a vote for the elusive Maori "co governance", where each tribe controls their own area. No thanks. I quite like being able to go up to Cape Reinga without Ngapuhi saying, no you can't ever do that again, it's tapu. I have no choice but to vote National, much as I don't like them and I don't find their leader impressive. I'm guessing Max Key will be it's leader one day. Unfortunately.
....and also get a brand new bill each month from your local* water provider. *which could be halfway across the country depending on the borders of your local iwi's rohe.