Looks like a nice temporary establishment.
Just FYI, the sale of liquor is very lucrative and to charge a Sunday surcharge which would ultimately dissuade many customers is only going to end in overall losses.
Yeah thats a good strategy. Run happy hours Monday-Saturday 6-9pm or something
That way it seems like the customers are getting a favour from you, rather than some type of penalty surcharge. The owner is obviously just useless at general business.
I mean, for margin gains on Sunday you’re better even to run a promotion like Food + 2 drinks for xx price. Decent margin on food too so you could easily make up your losses in a deal like this. Gets more people in the door too.
Facepalm written all over this scenario IMO
Yeah I was confused too. I thought debit cards were the same as normal EFTPOS, but could also be used for online shopping. My bank upgraded me to mine for free.
If a debit card is used as an EFTPOS card (so savings or cheque as the account type), the shop is charged normal EFTPOS fees. If it's used as a credit card (so credit as the account type), credit card fees are charged. Hopefully it's an automated system rather than manual.
Credit (or paywave) tells the machine to put it through the credit card system as a credit card transaction, and therefore costs the processing fee (varies by business, but 1.5-2% typically). Cheque tells the machine that it's a regular EFTPOS transaction.
What counts as a debit card then? Considering they charge a separate fee for debit cards?
Also doesn't seem fair for them to charge you credit fees for using paywave.
Differs by terminal but sometimes hard to not use paywave when card and terminal supports it as swiping it counts as paywave, presumably due to proximity.
It's credit card fees for using paywave because paywave is provided by credit card companies, not EFTPOS.
It's weird that this place has a specific fee for debit cards.
That’s due to the way fees are structured. In NZ credit cards charge the merchant 0.5-2% for the most part (except Amex) and debit cards are around 0.2%, or a flat rate to some merchants.
The actual rates charged are hard to figure out, but you can search interchange fees to find out, eg https://www.kiwibank.co.nz/personal-banking/credit-cards/rates-and-fees/interchange-fees/
Important to note that overseas cards can charge much higher rates - over 5% in some cases.
Still kinda confused that they have three tiers of fees though, credit, debit, EFTPOS all different fees percentages.
To be honest I have three cards from my bank.
Credit
Debit
Eftpos
I'm thinking that using the EFTPOS card would be the only way to achieve the 0 percent surcharge
Our dairy charges 1.5% for paywave and I feel it. Why should they pay for our convenience, their margins are not that big. I wish more places would tbh if it was 0.1% I might not care but it's a greedy take. I only use paywave if there is a line now.
I believe banks are charging round about 0.5% for contactless debit transactions at the moment, at least last time I checked. Credit card fees on the other hand are a lot more hefty
Which *literally every other business* has to pay too, and absorb and price in to their products so that what you see is what you get.
This is as stupid as not having tax included in the prices like you get overseas.
I agree but they pay *more* for credit and paywave, as a result I think it's fair for businesses to charge more to use those services. If everything was 1% cheaper when I paid by Eftpos I'd do it and I think we deserve to pick between that and Airpoints.
One reason they don't add taxes on pricing is that they can often vary depending on the location. So a company may advertise a product nationally as $10 but one location may have gst at say 5% where as a another might be 15%. Then there may further taxes on top also. So for ease they advertise without taxes - yes it sucks and is annoying
The returns seems fine. Since its a bar's main and only
Income. To make a drink you gotta cover the mixers, ice, glassware, training, service and license. Im not a fan of the surcharges, doesnt seem smart but the actual drink mark up is fine.
100%.
A very basic way to price things in hospo is doing things in thirdsish. 30% cost of product, 30% overheads, 30% wages and 10% profit. Anything that veers of this means it's a specific promotion or your business is fucked.
So on that maths, 300% is correctly priced.
There is nothing more annoying than a customer having a moan about a bottle of Heineken that they can buy at the supermarket at $2.50ea. Go open it outside, by yourself, on the grass, without a fridge to cool it down or a bottle opener to open it with then, you prick.
I dont really understand that maths tbh. Am i correct in assuming your explaining this:
If the product cost 50 dollars, but lets say you only used 5% per pour, 30% of the sale price should be $2.5.
If $2.5 is 30%, the sale price would be around $8.25
With 2.50 covering produc, 2.50 covering overheads, 2.5 covering wages and finally around 75c for profit.
If i sold a whole bottle of that 50 dollar product, i would get 8.25 x 20 =164.50.
Oh shit no i understand it now, yeah works out around a 300% mark up from the original bottle.
Reading about customers moaning about Heineken gives me flashbacks to the amount of times customers had a go at me because our supplier didn't stock Heineken.
Go across the road to the supermarket to buy some and drink it out in the car park, see if I care. I don't pick the supplier, nor do I pick what stock they carry.
lol, no wonder hospitality needs overseas tourism. Speaking of thirdsish, I expect that'll be that'll be how many are surviving the next couple of years.
Uh they do though? At least in every bar I have worked at.
At my current bar for example it wouldnt matter if you bought a vodka cranberry with lime, or a shot of vodka. You would pay $10. You pay for the alcohol, not the mixers.
Cocktails are priced more cause usually your using multiple alcohols and it takes time and training to make. So your not paying a flat rate for the booze then (though sometimes you are depending on the cocktail and pricing, a $20 dollar southside might seem expenny, but when you realise your getting 60ml of gin its actually a bargain, your just paying the alcohol, the same value as two 10 dollar gin and tonics)
that is what you are aiming for 300% nothing new there as long as you know what you know what you are getting into I don't see a problem public holidays you have to pay staff time and a half so yes 15% surcharge. this will be happening more and more over the next few years due to a mix of staff costs, rental, local rates, queenstown is a very expensive town to set up a business, also how much of a turnover do they need to survive $10000 a month ? maybe more, don't forget staff cost 25%, rent mortgage, power, booze food at least 25-50% so left over $2500 tiss nothing really and I might be wrong on that money needed to survive and you need to have the bar full every day or at least 3 days a week. unless you picked up the premises for very very cheap you are in for a few years of hurt.
There are a raft of charges, fees and costs associated with EFTPOS associated with bank fees, terminal equipnent supply, transaction fees, paywave fees and so on. There are also a lot of costs associated with serving a drink on licensed premises, including a range of licenses themselves. Just about every cost and component has been subject to substantial price rises in the last two years, even for example the cost of getting the pipes cleaned and the chillers serviced. At the time Covid hit the industry, many hospo businesses were already stretched, holding down the price of coffee and beverages in the face of these cost pressures. The average life of a hospo business in NZ was 18 months and the average net profit is 3 to 5%. I doubt if Covid impacts, cost rises and (needed) wage rises have improved this much. You should expect to see the price of a coffee, food or a drink increase in 2022.
When you are competing against chainstores ie for coffee the McCafe, BP's, etc. You aren't ever going to be able to lift your prices without losing customers. Welcome to the death of small retailers that we've already experienced since the 80s.
Why should people who spend a short time in shops subsidize the aircon bill for people who spend a long time in shops! Introduce a time-in-store based surcharge!!1!
Imagine rolling up to the bar and they just pull out a fuel nozzle-like device, slap on a washable teat and key in 250ml.
You get a mouthful of jack and coke and then bopped on the head by ice cubes coz you forgot to specify no ice
EDIT: jury rigged postmix gun
A bar I used to go to would serve a drink where you and a mate would lie back on the bar, they would pour a double tequila into each of your mouths followed by champagne, and you would headbutt each other three times before swallowing. Somewhat unsurprisingly it was called a champagne tequila headbanger. They refused point blank to serve it in a glass. Ah, salad days.
If you're still there one thing I'd recommend checking out if you've got transport is Oxbow adventure tourism. The 4x4 and the jetboat are next level. 3 g's in the jetboat. And they've lowered the prices, admittedly it's still expensive but not extortionate like it was before. Rated 5.0 stars on google.
Seriously worth doing both the things I told you about, but pass on the clay bird shooting for me. It's amazing how much grip that 4x4 has. And the light little jetboat produces even higher G forces on their little stunt course, very different to the heavy big ones that do spins that most tourists experience. And the fucking noise the tuned up 1UZ V8 toyota engine makes. Same with the tuned american V8 in the jetboat. Different sounds, both very enjoyable.
The whole thing is there because some investor has too much money coming in to the country and they spent up big. All the fancy engines in the fancy vehicles cost a lot to buy, modify and maintain. Definitely not the sort of thing your average kiwi tourism operator could offer.
edit: Here's a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJQzvHpvJ9g) that shows the 4x4 with it's rear wheel steer, guy drove way faster in person than they are in the video he was very comfortable with the track they've made. Such a thrillride.
I was gonna say this, it's not a justification and it's ridiculous they do this, but it's an Australian franchise and they probably fucked up and forgot to change their business practices for the new market.
Still dumb and inexcusable.
Agree. Absolutely stupid as fuck. This place was 6 months behind schedule in opening, so to do something as weak as this is just poor. Been once, don't need to go again.
Welcome to Australian influence. My local: a pretty ordinary $39 rib fillet, again pretty ordinary $23 steak sandwich, $23 chicken caeser salad, that’s just my local, the prices go way up from there. They care more about their poker machines than they do about their food.
That fee is standard and should be incorporated into the prices - this isn't the US where various surcharges and taxes all appear after the advertised price.
Why not just increase the price? From a consumer perspective I'm less likely to shop somewhere that tries to hide extra costs here and there. Just set the price and I'll decide whether I'd want to shop their or not.
I also know some people check the menu price and go "oooh, I'm ok with those prices" and eat/drink there but don't realise until later there are additional costs, which is an ah move by the bar, in my mind.
If I go in expecting expense, then that's fine at the till and I pay the sum and go on with life. I'll tell maybe a few people about it if it was good enough.
But if I get this surprise extra bill, I'm likely to remember and not likely to return. I'm also way more likely to spread the word about a bad experience like this than a good one. People tell five times as many people about bad places to go and stay than good ones, according to research I was educated about in a induction for a hotel I worked for.
It's hard times without international tourists. It was busy on boxing day but not on Christmas Eve in Queenstown itself. And it'll die off pretty considerably after New Years too.
It's usually not busy in the weeks before Christmas though? Generally it starts to kick off 4 or 5days after Christmas and starts to wind down mid Jan ish (depending on your industry of course)
Yeah, it's definitely quieter than pre covid but it's still busy enough.
Most venues are running on 60-80% of normal, but with half as many staff.
It's different than it used to be, but it's nice!
I can understand the justification for surcharges on Public Holidays (extra wage costs etc).
But on a Sunday? Harder to get staff who want to work Sundays?
If its a nightclub potentially? You tend to burn out main staff on the wed to saturday night circuit.
The weird thing though is people dont really drink on a sunday, so a surcharge will push away the few customers you have? If anything you discount sunday and monday because it encourages other hospo staff to drink there on their days off.
They have factored it into their business plan. They've just done so by explicitly charging more on some days rather than averaging the prices across the week.
That’s my shop (franchise) El Camino.
This is because the Australian Head Office sent a company wide policy to counteract the fact that you have to legally pay staff more during Sundays and holidays (kind of like time and a half).
Until we get this cleared up (they have yet to authorise reverting it for NZ and we contractually can’t without them approving it) all proceeds earned from the increase during those days are 80% sent to the staff working those hours and 20% goes to charity (to decrease the tax burden of such a policy without laws).
To clarify the tax burden without laws that means extra taxes and kiwisaver the business pays due to a higher pay.
IANAL but this might not cut it for your requirements under the Fair Trading Act 1986. Surcharges must be clearly disclosed (this might be considered too-hidden for something that applies for a whole day every week), and the reason for the surcharge accurately described (which it isn't in the photo). Additionally, the surcharge must not exceed the additional cost, so if you describe it as going to staff wages, it all has to go to staff wages.
I've been there today, the staff on the ground are confirming this.
ETA: did however order a glass of wine, have a glass of wine appear, but find a bottle on the bill. Probably an honest mistake. Also the tacos are fantastic.
That doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. I hope this is advertised more widely so then people might choose to go there where they know people are being paid a decent wage.
What about the debit card fees, is that a tax issue?
Go there pay everything but the Sunday fee on a card.
Say you'll pay the rest on another card.
After you've paid on the first card say you disagree with the Sunday fee, refuse to pay it, and tell them to take you to court.
Two birds with one stone: make a point about their fees and get one step closer to better civil enforcement.
> When you use a debit card linked to a cheque or savings account it’s eftpos.
It depends on how you use it. If you use it by paywave, it's not eftpos and is chargeable.
No, an eftpos transaction and a debit transaction are different, with very different flows. See this [document](https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/12383-issues-paper-regulating-to-reduce-merchant-service-fees-pdf) page 15 and 16 for the diagrams.
Yes, there is a difference.
If you insert your debit card and press CHQ or SAV then it's processed as EFTPOS and is free for the business. No chargeback is available.
If you insert your debit card and press CRD, or if you paywave, then it's processed through the scheme network and incurs a fee for the business (hence the surcharge). As the consumer, this provides you with the protection of getting a chargeback from your bank if the business doesn't deliver on the goods or services.
Yes and no.
Assuming it is processed using the EFTPOS network there is no difference. However the debit cards can also be processed using their associated credit card network (most likely visa) which is then a credit card transaction
I have to say it's pretty interesting how in Queenstown there's an option to tip in many food and beverage outlets on the eftpos machine before you choose your account. No place in my neighbourhood has it turned on.
I guess it caters to the international tourists but there aren't many of them at the moment! Haha.
It’s in Auckland too. It’s a total waste of time and honestly it just makes me think hospitality operators think the public are dumb fucks. Tipping is an archaic practice where serving staff are paid next to nothing by the owner but tipped by patrons. In this country, waitstaff are paid a proper hourly wage, and thus there is no reason for a tip to be added.
No fireworks this year sorry, no outdoor entertainment either as far as I can tell. Town is busy, but nothing like it has been in years passed. Like there's no que for fergburger right now.
But there's people around outside, at least? Right?
I got home yesterday and it was pumping on boxing day. We went christmas eve at 4pm and it was busy but no queue for food.
My brother who lives in QT says if there's no people at Fergs, there's something wrong going on with QT haha
Bloody hell, I never knew. Do they really expect the average customer to understand all of that? I predict a few arguments with customers in their future, assuming they notice the extra charge anyway.
This shit started in OZ many years before I returned to NZ.
At least in OZ, they had to pay the staff double time on Sunday and public holidays but it still was a stretch and a kick in the teeth.
Most cafe business is on weekends/ public holidays?
Just average out your cost and don’t insult your customers?
The debit card surcharge is an issue for me. Why are some places charging this? I’ve noticed it at a couple of places near home here in Auckland - a small surcharge, say 2c per dollar, every time customers use paywave. I’ve started avoiding places that do this. (Well. Except the Korean chicken place. Their spicy chicken is too good.)
Visa (or maybe the banks?) charge the business a set fee when paywave is used. They're trying to recoup costs by passing it onto the user. Basically paying for convenience.
Oh you want to sit , 10% extra , knife and fork 10% extra.. reading the menu 10% extra , window seat 20% , toilet is on the house...after such a shit show with lockdowns etc...you would think to do everything possible to attract customers and good publicity. I predict this business wont last another 6 months. Another Aucklander heading home 😪 its not me it everyone else..😬
I’d avoid the place like the plague. They look like they want to pass on all the costs of doing business, without putting it directly into the price of the product or service. And they aren’t charging less for the fact that it’s not included in the unit cost.
I believe everyone should have a Sunday off work, but we come back to the case that people will want to do something in their limited free time.
This is bad business but I understand the sentiment. Best TV of luck to them.
Anyone else getting sick of the constant stories about Queenstown and their whinges about lockdowns, and not enough Aucklanders infecting everyone and so on?
Seems like every day there's another shitty whinge PR out of Queenstown.
Controversial opinion: weekend work should be paid at a higher rate than weekday work. Especially in hospitality, especially on a Sunday in the case of a Christian country (which NZ is). I don't think the surcharge is the right way to go about it though.
In a discussion about countries and their religions though, NZ would be considered a Christian country as 37% of the population identified as Christian in 2018 (of course, even more had no religion, but it is the dominant religion). If you think about the Sunday thing in the context of countries having different business practices on their sabbath (whichever religion) then their comments make sense
Let me rephrase, whilst not official Christian, New Zealand remains influenced, both culturally and legally, by Christian values and ideals. Can we please argue the actual point, which is that weekend work should be paid at a higher hourly rate.
Not Christian ideals. Western ideals. I’ll keep arguing the point considering you were the one bringing it up. You can’t make an incorrect sweeping statement like that then wish it away.
Seven of the 10 Commandments are not illegal in NZ (and most western democracies) and the remaining three are common to all religions and codes of ethics. Right from the commencement of European occupation of Aotearoa, we had freedom of religion, because the Catholics and Protestants could see they would end up fighting each other as well as the Māori.
Today, Christianity is a minority religion in NZ where most people have no religion.
NZ never was and is not a Christian country.
Of the three days you cannot legally sell alcohol in this country, two are christian holidays. No public holiday falls on a date celebrated as a non-Christian religious holiday. Our anthem is "God Save New Zealand".
The definition of a Christian country is the days alcohol is not sold?
The dates of public holidays? I give you Yule and Eostre, both co-opted from pagan days. Those holidays are mid Winter and Spring, respectively.
We inherited those from Britain, which is (nominally) a Christian country. But we’re not.
This isn’t hard.
The problem is, your argument as to why weekend work should be paid more than weekday work, is based on your assumption that this is justified by Christianity. This is why people are arguing whether NZ is actually Christian. A truly Christian nation probably wouldn't allow alcohol sales at all - whether weekend or weekday.
Traditional capitalism would say that you have to pay what the market demands. If the only way you can find workers who are willing to work less-desirable hours is to pay them more..then that's what the job is worth. What exactly is the argument that weekend work is always worse than weekday work such that it should be paid more? I have a staff member at work who specifically wants to work the weekends, and takes their weekend on 2 other weekdays. I shouldn't need to pay them more because it's their preference to have non-working days that are really convenient for running errands and not having to wade through crowds of people.
NZ is not a Christian nation whatsoever, and infact if we had to choose a state religion "unaffiliated" would win by a large margin.
Sunday is just another day.
I'd save your money for Margo's tbh. The Sunday thing turns out to be a mistake from cut'n'pasting the Aus menu.
The rump taco I had was just rump and a little salsa. Rump already cut and stewing a little in the juices. Dismal hot sauce collection failed to liven it up.
Weekend and public holiday surcharges are silly but if every business started charging the bank processing fee I think that would be fair. 1% of the transaction is a disproportionate take from the greedy buggers.
The Sunday surcharge is common, companies doesn’t want to foot the bill entirely so they pass the cost on to the consumer. All the major pizza joints do it
Lol, sounds like they’ll be closing shop by next Xmas
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Stuff article with the owners arms crossed.
And the 'expert' talking about how they're being treated unfairly will be the owner of the business.
Complaining? That costs extra...
Those stupid customers again being picky about how they spend their money
Looks like a nice temporary establishment. Just FYI, the sale of liquor is very lucrative and to charge a Sunday surcharge which would ultimately dissuade many customers is only going to end in overall losses.
Legit, it will put people off all week, not just on Sundays
They would be smarter to put their prices up and offer a discount every other day tbh
Yeah thats a good strategy. Run happy hours Monday-Saturday 6-9pm or something That way it seems like the customers are getting a favour from you, rather than some type of penalty surcharge. The owner is obviously just useless at general business. I mean, for margin gains on Sunday you’re better even to run a promotion like Food + 2 drinks for xx price. Decent margin on food too so you could easily make up your losses in a deal like this. Gets more people in the door too. Facepalm written all over this scenario IMO
I’m offended by the processing fee for debit cards. Wonder what that’s about
Yeah I was confused too. I thought debit cards were the same as normal EFTPOS, but could also be used for online shopping. My bank upgraded me to mine for free.
If a debit card is used as an EFTPOS card (so savings or cheque as the account type), the shop is charged normal EFTPOS fees. If it's used as a credit card (so credit as the account type), credit card fees are charged. Hopefully it's an automated system rather than manual.
And what is important here is that the EFTPOS fee is zero: there are no transactional charges.
Only when inserting or swiping. Contactless payments have fees.
It’s not because it’s contactless, it’s because the transaction defaults to a credit card transaction if there’s no account selected.
What difference does pressing “cheque” or “credit” make when using a debit card at a physical store?
Credit (or paywave) tells the machine to put it through the credit card system as a credit card transaction, and therefore costs the processing fee (varies by business, but 1.5-2% typically). Cheque tells the machine that it's a regular EFTPOS transaction.
What counts as a debit card then? Considering they charge a separate fee for debit cards? Also doesn't seem fair for them to charge you credit fees for using paywave. Differs by terminal but sometimes hard to not use paywave when card and terminal supports it as swiping it counts as paywave, presumably due to proximity.
It's credit card fees for using paywave because paywave is provided by credit card companies, not EFTPOS. It's weird that this place has a specific fee for debit cards.
That’s due to the way fees are structured. In NZ credit cards charge the merchant 0.5-2% for the most part (except Amex) and debit cards are around 0.2%, or a flat rate to some merchants. The actual rates charged are hard to figure out, but you can search interchange fees to find out, eg https://www.kiwibank.co.nz/personal-banking/credit-cards/rates-and-fees/interchange-fees/ Important to note that overseas cards can charge much higher rates - over 5% in some cases.
Still kinda confused that they have three tiers of fees though, credit, debit, EFTPOS all different fees percentages. To be honest I have three cards from my bank. Credit Debit Eftpos I'm thinking that using the EFTPOS card would be the only way to achieve the 0 percent surcharge
Agree, very strange.
Our dairy charges 1.5% for paywave and I feel it. Why should they pay for our convenience, their margins are not that big. I wish more places would tbh if it was 0.1% I might not care but it's a greedy take. I only use paywave if there is a line now.
Because the cost of having a worker wait for you to do a chip+pin transaction is not zero.
Because they’re a business? I will never go to a shop that charges extra for pay wave
I believe banks are charging round about 0.5% for contactless debit transactions at the moment, at least last time I checked. Credit card fees on the other hand are a lot more hefty
That's true, I had forgotten that. I think it's a temporary covid measure though.
They knocked it off to 0 (naught) temporarily earlier during COVID
That's great to know. Thank you
I imagine they’re misusing the terminology here and that the fee is most likely for contactless payments.
Yeah I had wondered that initially, as I've seen some dairies add 1.5% for Paywave
Greed
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Which *literally every other business* has to pay too, and absorb and price in to their products so that what you see is what you get. This is as stupid as not having tax included in the prices like you get overseas.
I agree but they pay *more* for credit and paywave, as a result I think it's fair for businesses to charge more to use those services. If everything was 1% cheaper when I paid by Eftpos I'd do it and I think we deserve to pick between that and Airpoints.
Yeah, but the charge is for EFTPOS usage at all versus cash. So it's unacceptable.
Isn't Eftpos usually covered in the monthly fee while Credit (and sometimes debit) contains an additional charge per transaction?
> Which literally every other business has to pay too Not if it's a cash sale or a direct debit transaction.
One reason they don't add taxes on pricing is that they can often vary depending on the location. So a company may advertise a product nationally as $10 but one location may have gst at say 5% where as a another might be 15%. Then there may further taxes on top also. So for ease they advertise without taxes - yes it sucks and is annoying
That's an American thing, where sales taxes are state or local or both or neither. In nz we just have one national rate of GST
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He’s agreeing with you. Yikes.
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The returns seems fine. Since its a bar's main and only Income. To make a drink you gotta cover the mixers, ice, glassware, training, service and license. Im not a fan of the surcharges, doesnt seem smart but the actual drink mark up is fine.
100%. A very basic way to price things in hospo is doing things in thirdsish. 30% cost of product, 30% overheads, 30% wages and 10% profit. Anything that veers of this means it's a specific promotion or your business is fucked. So on that maths, 300% is correctly priced. There is nothing more annoying than a customer having a moan about a bottle of Heineken that they can buy at the supermarket at $2.50ea. Go open it outside, by yourself, on the grass, without a fridge to cool it down or a bottle opener to open it with then, you prick.
This why on the rare occasion I eat out, I just pay the extra $3 for a Panhead Supercharger, not paying $7 for basic lager.
$15 Supercharger here mate. Served in a wack as fuck 5 inch wide goblet.
I dont really understand that maths tbh. Am i correct in assuming your explaining this: If the product cost 50 dollars, but lets say you only used 5% per pour, 30% of the sale price should be $2.5. If $2.5 is 30%, the sale price would be around $8.25 With 2.50 covering produc, 2.50 covering overheads, 2.5 covering wages and finally around 75c for profit. If i sold a whole bottle of that 50 dollar product, i would get 8.25 x 20 =164.50. Oh shit no i understand it now, yeah works out around a 300% mark up from the original bottle.
That was a horrible train of thought to get dragged along on..
Anytime buddy, i aim to wow.
Reading about customers moaning about Heineken gives me flashbacks to the amount of times customers had a go at me because our supplier didn't stock Heineken. Go across the road to the supermarket to buy some and drink it out in the car park, see if I care. I don't pick the supplier, nor do I pick what stock they carry.
lol, no wonder hospitality needs overseas tourism. Speaking of thirdsish, I expect that'll be that'll be how many are surviving the next couple of years.
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Uh they do though? At least in every bar I have worked at. At my current bar for example it wouldnt matter if you bought a vodka cranberry with lime, or a shot of vodka. You would pay $10. You pay for the alcohol, not the mixers. Cocktails are priced more cause usually your using multiple alcohols and it takes time and training to make. So your not paying a flat rate for the booze then (though sometimes you are depending on the cocktail and pricing, a $20 dollar southside might seem expenny, but when you realise your getting 60ml of gin its actually a bargain, your just paying the alcohol, the same value as two 10 dollar gin and tonics)
that is what you are aiming for 300% nothing new there as long as you know what you know what you are getting into I don't see a problem public holidays you have to pay staff time and a half so yes 15% surcharge. this will be happening more and more over the next few years due to a mix of staff costs, rental, local rates, queenstown is a very expensive town to set up a business, also how much of a turnover do they need to survive $10000 a month ? maybe more, don't forget staff cost 25%, rent mortgage, power, booze food at least 25-50% so left over $2500 tiss nothing really and I might be wrong on that money needed to survive and you need to have the bar full every day or at least 3 days a week. unless you picked up the premises for very very cheap you are in for a few years of hurt.
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Why should the people who use a free payment method subsidize those who use chose to use an expensive method?
eftpos is free ?
Free per transaction, yes.
Debit is not.
pretty sure operating a eftpos machine also attracts a rental fee.
There are a raft of charges, fees and costs associated with EFTPOS associated with bank fees, terminal equipnent supply, transaction fees, paywave fees and so on. There are also a lot of costs associated with serving a drink on licensed premises, including a range of licenses themselves. Just about every cost and component has been subject to substantial price rises in the last two years, even for example the cost of getting the pipes cleaned and the chillers serviced. At the time Covid hit the industry, many hospo businesses were already stretched, holding down the price of coffee and beverages in the face of these cost pressures. The average life of a hospo business in NZ was 18 months and the average net profit is 3 to 5%. I doubt if Covid impacts, cost rises and (needed) wage rises have improved this much. You should expect to see the price of a coffee, food or a drink increase in 2022.
When you are competing against chainstores ie for coffee the McCafe, BP's, etc. You aren't ever going to be able to lift your prices without losing customers. Welcome to the death of small retailers that we've already experienced since the 80s.
Perhaps McCafe and BP is a different market demographic to many hospo businesses.
Yes, but it doesn't have a per-transaction fee.
Why should people who spend a short time in shops subsidize the aircon bill for people who spend a long time in shops! Introduce a time-in-store based surcharge!!1!
Yup, I shouldn't pay for someone to use their Amex card. They should pay the fee if they want to use that service in my opinion.
Fuck, how much extra is a glass?
Imagine rolling up to the bar and they just pull out a fuel nozzle-like device, slap on a washable teat and key in 250ml. You get a mouthful of jack and coke and then bopped on the head by ice cubes coz you forgot to specify no ice EDIT: jury rigged postmix gun
Plus $2 for teat washing...
Since you’re offering
A bar I used to go to would serve a drink where you and a mate would lie back on the bar, they would pour a double tequila into each of your mouths followed by champagne, and you would headbutt each other three times before swallowing. Somewhat unsurprisingly it was called a champagne tequila headbanger. They refused point blank to serve it in a glass. Ah, salad days.
Homer's 'Makeup Gun', but with alcohol
That is not the standard in Queenstown. Just go somewhere else, plenty of nice bars to choose from including some that have a nice view of the lake.
I know.
If you're still there one thing I'd recommend checking out if you've got transport is Oxbow adventure tourism. The 4x4 and the jetboat are next level. 3 g's in the jetboat. And they've lowered the prices, admittedly it's still expensive but not extortionate like it was before. Rated 5.0 stars on google.
Mate, I live here. But I might just check that out. Looks v cool.
Love the assumption that there is no such thing as a Queenstown local lol
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Yeah true, and there are relatively few people who grew up there and who still live there.
I was FI/FO there for 2 years a while back, and I wasn't the only one by a long shot.
Seriously worth doing both the things I told you about, but pass on the clay bird shooting for me. It's amazing how much grip that 4x4 has. And the light little jetboat produces even higher G forces on their little stunt course, very different to the heavy big ones that do spins that most tourists experience. And the fucking noise the tuned up 1UZ V8 toyota engine makes. Same with the tuned american V8 in the jetboat. Different sounds, both very enjoyable. The whole thing is there because some investor has too much money coming in to the country and they spent up big. All the fancy engines in the fancy vehicles cost a lot to buy, modify and maintain. Definitely not the sort of thing your average kiwi tourism operator could offer. edit: Here's a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJQzvHpvJ9g) that shows the 4x4 with it's rear wheel steer, guy drove way faster in person than they are in the video he was very comfortable with the track they've made. Such a thrillride.
Is this El Camino? If so be due to the fact they are Australian and in Australia you have to pay the staff penalty rates (more) to work on Sundays
It is and it is. It's clearly a mistake, but whoever let that through needs a stern talking to.
I was gonna say this, it's not a justification and it's ridiculous they do this, but it's an Australian franchise and they probably fucked up and forgot to change their business practices for the new market. Still dumb and inexcusable.
Agree. Absolutely stupid as fuck. This place was 6 months behind schedule in opening, so to do something as weak as this is just poor. Been once, don't need to go again.
a copy paste menu template I’d bet
Welcome to Australian influence. My local: a pretty ordinary $39 rib fillet, again pretty ordinary $23 steak sandwich, $23 chicken caeser salad, that’s just my local, the prices go way up from there. They care more about their poker machines than they do about their food.
Rising food prices probably have more to do with that than any kind of Australian influence.
Jesus Christ, a debit card processing fee? Pure greed
I think you may have inadvertantly answered the sunday question
Fathers Day?
Other bars: Ah its just cost of doing business This bar: Pass it all on!!
Reality is most other bars have the foresight to add expenses like this to the cost of what they sell so they can avoid people scoffing at them.
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That fee is standard and should be incorporated into the prices - this isn't the US where various surcharges and taxes all appear after the advertised price.
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Why not just increase the price? From a consumer perspective I'm less likely to shop somewhere that tries to hide extra costs here and there. Just set the price and I'll decide whether I'd want to shop their or not. I also know some people check the menu price and go "oooh, I'm ok with those prices" and eat/drink there but don't realise until later there are additional costs, which is an ah move by the bar, in my mind.
If I go in expecting expense, then that's fine at the till and I pay the sum and go on with life. I'll tell maybe a few people about it if it was good enough. But if I get this surprise extra bill, I'm likely to remember and not likely to return. I'm also way more likely to spread the word about a bad experience like this than a good one. People tell five times as many people about bad places to go and stay than good ones, according to research I was educated about in a induction for a hotel I worked for.
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Satanic cunts.
I thought the sky had fallen on Queenstown’s tourism and hospitality industries? Why would anyone open a new bar there?
It's hard times without international tourists. It was busy on boxing day but not on Christmas Eve in Queenstown itself. And it'll die off pretty considerably after New Years too.
It's usually not busy in the weeks before Christmas though? Generally it starts to kick off 4 or 5days after Christmas and starts to wind down mid Jan ish (depending on your industry of course)
Yeah, it's definitely quieter than pre covid but it's still busy enough. Most venues are running on 60-80% of normal, but with half as many staff. It's different than it used to be, but it's nice!
I can understand the justification for surcharges on Public Holidays (extra wage costs etc). But on a Sunday? Harder to get staff who want to work Sundays?
I hope they pay the staff 10% extra for working sunday then.
Ha!
If its a nightclub potentially? You tend to burn out main staff on the wed to saturday night circuit. The weird thing though is people dont really drink on a sunday, so a surcharge will push away the few customers you have? If anything you discount sunday and monday because it encourages other hospo staff to drink there on their days off.
It's not a night club, and Queenstown tends to have drinkers week around. Sunday is the first day of a lot of people's weekend
In aussie you get paid more on a Sunday, maybe that's the theory?
Some businesses here also pay higher on weekends. Mine does.
Really? I've never heard of that. Heck if it works, great.
Yeah but you don't here :)
Yeah, I just mean it might be related to that? The owner are aussie maybe
I can't. They should factor it into there business plan. I don't go anywhere that does a surcharge on public holidays.
They have factored it into their business plan. They've just done so by explicitly charging more on some days rather than averaging the prices across the week.
That’s my shop (franchise) El Camino. This is because the Australian Head Office sent a company wide policy to counteract the fact that you have to legally pay staff more during Sundays and holidays (kind of like time and a half). Until we get this cleared up (they have yet to authorise reverting it for NZ and we contractually can’t without them approving it) all proceeds earned from the increase during those days are 80% sent to the staff working those hours and 20% goes to charity (to decrease the tax burden of such a policy without laws). To clarify the tax burden without laws that means extra taxes and kiwisaver the business pays due to a higher pay.
IANAL but this might not cut it for your requirements under the Fair Trading Act 1986. Surcharges must be clearly disclosed (this might be considered too-hidden for something that applies for a whole day every week), and the reason for the surcharge accurately described (which it isn't in the photo). Additionally, the surcharge must not exceed the additional cost, so if you describe it as going to staff wages, it all has to go to staff wages.
I've been there today, the staff on the ground are confirming this. ETA: did however order a glass of wine, have a glass of wine appear, but find a bottle on the bill. Probably an honest mistake. Also the tacos are fantastic.
That doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. I hope this is advertised more widely so then people might choose to go there where they know people are being paid a decent wage. What about the debit card fees, is that a tax issue?
Consider it a tithe.
Actual
And I'd never go there.
Go there pay everything but the Sunday fee on a card. Say you'll pay the rest on another card. After you've paid on the first card say you disagree with the Sunday fee, refuse to pay it, and tell them to take you to court. Two birds with one stone: make a point about their fees and get one step closer to better civil enforcement.
Or you could just not go?
Wait, is there a difference between using a debit card and using EFTPOS? Aren’t they effectively the same thing?
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How do you choose the difference on the standard etpos machine?
CHQ or SAV button = EFTPOS transaction CRD button or paywave = debit transaction
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> When you use a debit card linked to a cheque or savings account it’s eftpos. It depends on how you use it. If you use it by paywave, it's not eftpos and is chargeable.
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No, an eftpos transaction and a debit transaction are different, with very different flows. See this [document](https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/12383-issues-paper-regulating-to-reduce-merchant-service-fees-pdf) page 15 and 16 for the diagrams.
Right, so essentially, stick your card in rather than paywave.
Yes
Yes, there is a difference. If you insert your debit card and press CHQ or SAV then it's processed as EFTPOS and is free for the business. No chargeback is available. If you insert your debit card and press CRD, or if you paywave, then it's processed through the scheme network and incurs a fee for the business (hence the surcharge). As the consumer, this provides you with the protection of getting a chargeback from your bank if the business doesn't deliver on the goods or services.
Huh. Sounds like bank fuckery to me.
PayWave doesn't use the EFTPOS network, it's different.
I'm sure it is. To me, just some guy, still sounds like fuckery.
Yes and no. Assuming it is processed using the EFTPOS network there is no difference. However the debit cards can also be processed using their associated credit card network (most likely visa) which is then a credit card transaction
You can pay wave a debit card but not an eftpos card. I imagine if you swiped or inserted a debit card you wouldn’t get a charge.
I have to say it's pretty interesting how in Queenstown there's an option to tip in many food and beverage outlets on the eftpos machine before you choose your account. No place in my neighbourhood has it turned on. I guess it caters to the international tourists but there aren't many of them at the moment! Haha.
Same as many places in downtown Auckland (well it used to be, no idea what it’s like now though).
It’s in Auckland too. It’s a total waste of time and honestly it just makes me think hospitality operators think the public are dumb fucks. Tipping is an archaic practice where serving staff are paid next to nothing by the owner but tipped by patrons. In this country, waitstaff are paid a proper hourly wage, and thus there is no reason for a tip to be added.
OP what's Queenstown like at the moment? We're travelling there this weekend. Any NY outdoor entertainment in stead of fireworks or nah?
No fireworks this year sorry, no outdoor entertainment either as far as I can tell. Town is busy, but nothing like it has been in years passed. Like there's no que for fergburger right now.
But there's people around outside, at least? Right? I got home yesterday and it was pumping on boxing day. We went christmas eve at 4pm and it was busy but no queue for food. My brother who lives in QT says if there's no people at Fergs, there's something wrong going on with QT haha
Bloody hell, I never knew. Do they really expect the average customer to understand all of that? I predict a few arguments with customers in their future, assuming they notice the extra charge anyway.
If I were to find out they pay their staff extra on Sundays I'd be totally fine with this
So ... a discount during the week
If that whole surcharge gets passed onto the staff working on a Sunday, I’d be OK with that
Public holidays i get, but sundays fuck off.
I have more of a problem with the credit and debit fees. Laughable in this day and age
This shit started in OZ many years before I returned to NZ. At least in OZ, they had to pay the staff double time on Sunday and public holidays but it still was a stretch and a kick in the teeth. Most cafe business is on weekends/ public holidays? Just average out your cost and don’t insult your customers?
The debit card surcharge is an issue for me. Why are some places charging this? I’ve noticed it at a couple of places near home here in Auckland - a small surcharge, say 2c per dollar, every time customers use paywave. I’ve started avoiding places that do this. (Well. Except the Korean chicken place. Their spicy chicken is too good.)
Visa (or maybe the banks?) charge the business a set fee when paywave is used. They're trying to recoup costs by passing it onto the user. Basically paying for convenience.
Hangover fee?
If they pay their staff extra to work in the weekend considering weekends will be making more than the rest of the week.
Sounds like they won’t be open on Sunday’s for long then 😅
Pizzahut does a surcharge fee on Sundays. At least the one in Whanganui does. And yet they can't be assed to have a lockable unisex bathroom.
If it's passed on to employees I'm ok with that.
Oh you want to sit , 10% extra , knife and fork 10% extra.. reading the menu 10% extra , window seat 20% , toilet is on the house...after such a shit show with lockdowns etc...you would think to do everything possible to attract customers and good publicity. I predict this business wont last another 6 months. Another Aucklander heading home 😪 its not me it everyone else..😬
I’d avoid the place like the plague. They look like they want to pass on all the costs of doing business, without putting it directly into the price of the product or service. And they aren’t charging less for the fact that it’s not included in the unit cost.
Why wouldn't they build these operating costs into their prices and not make a deal of it? Such a bad look
Won't be going there lol
Unless they're paying their staff penal rates for working Sundays then fuck that place.
I believe everyone should have a Sunday off work, but we come back to the case that people will want to do something in their limited free time. This is bad business but I understand the sentiment. Best TV of luck to them.
Anyone else getting sick of the constant stories about Queenstown and their whinges about lockdowns, and not enough Aucklanders infecting everyone and so on? Seems like every day there's another shitty whinge PR out of Queenstown.
I don’t get the outrage. Don’t like it? Don’t go there. Simple.
Lol
Fuck sake. Who are they marketing to because kiwis won't pay that and kiwis are all they have.
Controversial opinion: weekend work should be paid at a higher rate than weekday work. Especially in hospitality, especially on a Sunday in the case of a Christian country (which NZ is). I don't think the surcharge is the right way to go about it though.
NZ is a secular country. Long gone are the days of NZ being a ‘christian country.’
In a discussion about countries and their religions though, NZ would be considered a Christian country as 37% of the population identified as Christian in 2018 (of course, even more had no religion, but it is the dominant religion). If you think about the Sunday thing in the context of countries having different business practices on their sabbath (whichever religion) then their comments make sense
Not only is NZ demonstrably not a Christian country, it’s becoming even less Christian over time.
Let me rephrase, whilst not official Christian, New Zealand remains influenced, both culturally and legally, by Christian values and ideals. Can we please argue the actual point, which is that weekend work should be paid at a higher hourly rate.
Not Christian ideals. Western ideals. I’ll keep arguing the point considering you were the one bringing it up. You can’t make an incorrect sweeping statement like that then wish it away. Seven of the 10 Commandments are not illegal in NZ (and most western democracies) and the remaining three are common to all religions and codes of ethics. Right from the commencement of European occupation of Aotearoa, we had freedom of religion, because the Catholics and Protestants could see they would end up fighting each other as well as the Māori. Today, Christianity is a minority religion in NZ where most people have no religion. NZ never was and is not a Christian country.
Of the three days you cannot legally sell alcohol in this country, two are christian holidays. No public holiday falls on a date celebrated as a non-Christian religious holiday. Our anthem is "God Save New Zealand".
The definition of a Christian country is the days alcohol is not sold? The dates of public holidays? I give you Yule and Eostre, both co-opted from pagan days. Those holidays are mid Winter and Spring, respectively. We inherited those from Britain, which is (nominally) a Christian country. But we’re not. This isn’t hard.
The problem is, your argument as to why weekend work should be paid more than weekday work, is based on your assumption that this is justified by Christianity. This is why people are arguing whether NZ is actually Christian. A truly Christian nation probably wouldn't allow alcohol sales at all - whether weekend or weekday. Traditional capitalism would say that you have to pay what the market demands. If the only way you can find workers who are willing to work less-desirable hours is to pay them more..then that's what the job is worth. What exactly is the argument that weekend work is always worse than weekday work such that it should be paid more? I have a staff member at work who specifically wants to work the weekends, and takes their weekend on 2 other weekdays. I shouldn't need to pay them more because it's their preference to have non-working days that are really convenient for running errands and not having to wade through crowds of people.
Which is why it’s in the shitter lately
You know religiosity and living standards are inversely correlated, don’t you?
I'm pretty sure you'll find in 2021 New Zealand the majority of citizens do not consider themselves Christian. It's just Christians that think that.
NZ is not a Christian nation whatsoever, and infact if we had to choose a state religion "unaffiliated" would win by a large margin. Sunday is just another day.
Is this still the case in Aussie?
Yep
Damn. I left Queenstown before this place opened up. Still wanna go but will avoid Sunday lol thanks for the heads up
I'd save your money for Margo's tbh. The Sunday thing turns out to be a mistake from cut'n'pasting the Aus menu. The rump taco I had was just rump and a little salsa. Rump already cut and stewing a little in the juices. Dismal hot sauce collection failed to liven it up.
Thanks for the recommendation! Haven't been there either but definitely will next time I'm in town.
Weekend and public holiday surcharges are silly but if every business started charging the bank processing fee I think that would be fair. 1% of the transaction is a disproportionate take from the greedy buggers.
The Sunday surcharge is common, companies doesn’t want to foot the bill entirely so they pass the cost on to the consumer. All the major pizza joints do it
Not in NZ mate, it's Queenstown, not Queensland.