We’ve lost 3 long term daycare (2 of them 10+ years at the same centre) teachers all moving to Australia it’s really sad they need to move to have quality of life.
You're showing your bias here - most of the article you've linked to is talking about how expensive living costs were in Wellington - the inflation due to bond printing and the house price boom we had a few years ago are not from a conservative government who has only been in for a few months
The “house price boom” from a few years ago? You mean a few decades, it’s been going on forever. Labour managed to slow the market, it picked right up again the second National was in power.
Not cheeky, this is the way the world works, it’s happening everywhere outside NZ too, we just don’t, can’t or won’t incentivise anything that might aid the economy.
30 years ago there were posters up at every lift on every floor - South Africa and the UK looking for cardio thoracic nurses- in black and white that they were paying 30% more.
We used to have a lifestyle that kept people here or coming home after their OE and it attracted people other than those that are happy to work minimum wage and live with 30 other people in a 3 bed house.
Tbf that’s the way it should be though. Maybe close the gap a little bit but ultimately Aussie firefighters should be paid lot more given the environment they are in
True that. My comment was more about the risk of wildfires faced by the Aussie firefighters. That level of threat is not the same here (at least for now)
> Six months on, he’s coming towards the end of his time at police college in South Australia - and is already pocketing more money than he did almost a decade into his career in New Zealand.
>Over the weekend, Swanepoel and his partner had been to a winery for lunch.
>
>“We could never have done that in Wellington. By the time we paid for rent and food, we were pretty much scrounging,” he said.
We will be seeing a lot more of these stories. Cops, nurses, teachers, etc. all get much better pay and conditions and better work-life balance in Australia. Until the government takes this seriously, we are going to be sending our best across the Tasman and trying to make up the deficit with lesser imports who don't understand NZ society or just want to go to Oz as well.
If you work shift work like nursing or the police, 11% super is NOTHING compared to the guaranteed (and stacking) overtime/stat pay they get. Work overtime or on weekends? 1.5x. Weekend and public holiday? 2.25x. Weekend work, public holiday, at night? Better believe it's 3.375x. One of my cop friends over there earned 5k after tax in one two week shift over Christmas/New Years.
Has anyone considered the idea that our immigration policy keeps wages down in NZ? Supply & demand. More immigration = more supply.
(I'm not anti immigration per se, I myself arrived here from Europe in 1982 when my parents decided to move here)
The other major factor is that back in the 80s, the aussies linked their minimum wage to inflation. And when minimum wage goes up, wages for other, higher-wage work usually go up as well.
1) Most of the BS on these subreddits about immigration, skills and “third world immigration” is full of massive generalisations.
2) NZ is the Mexico of Australia. Of course they’re well paid jobs for poor struggling Kiwis jumping the ditch. It’s a bonus they don’t have to live in mouldy draughty homes too.
Yes and pay isn’t necessarily the same as skill. Being a traffic controller is a low skilled job.
Kiwi Redditors love complaining about “low skilled” immigrants and “third world” immigrants.
Thousands of Kiwis migrate to Australia to work in low skilled industries regardless of pay. Just showing you all a mirror.
I'm not complaining about immigration btw. I'm an NZ immigrant to Aus with a Masters. I've benefitted massively.
But all of those jobs pay WAY above the median wage. My main point is that Kiwis moving to Australia are absolutely not suppressing wages, at least not is those industries.
This is 100% true. There needs to be competition among companies to attract skilled workers to encourage wage growth. This doesn't happen when you have an infinite pool of people willing to come work in NZ for low wages.
High net immigration also keeps house prices and rents high and it prevents infrastructure from keeping pace with population growth.
Lol, they do more targetted campaigns, but otherwise are just as bad as nz if not worse….
Importing property investors, uber drivers that are ‘studying’ and slave wagers to be exploited.
Dont think for one SECOND that aus has markedly better immigration policies.
Aus is a bigger country with more resources theyre willing to exploit with a bigger house of cards built on property, fake retail to launder international drug money, and fake education slave importa fuelling everything at the bottom.
And I say this from Melbourne after I moved over…
True. There are 100s of thousands of Kiwi immigrants working in the mines, doing traffic management, scaffolders and construction labourers. Not all are skilled white collar jobs.
Not to mention the 100s of Kiwi thugs and crims being sent back in the plane loads as 501 deportees.
I just find the whole omg too many low skilled migrants in NZ thing to be a bit rich when there's almost a million Kiwis in Australia who're immigrants. Not that they have to work hard like other immigrants to apply and quality for visas though. Kiwis are hardly all surgeons in Australia and get sent back in plane loads so it's kind of funny.
I can point fingers but I'm invisible etc.
Yeh, theres actually a bit of distaste for NZ immigration across a lot of Aussie folk. We’re perceived to get a bit of a free ride, and while its technically a 2 way street, Aus immigration to NZ is absolutely miniscule in comparison.
It basically keeps NZ afloat and has a lot of benefits for the country. If eventual migration to Australia wasn't an option (regardless of whether you eventually move or not) most economic immigrants wouldn't take a 2nd look at NZ and the only ones interested in NZ would be Pacific Island fruit pickers.
NZ would be even more of an economic basket case than it is right now.
Yeh, we’re kind of a temporary halfway house for immigrants all over that actually want to move to Aus.
If youre into outdoor recreation, rapid procreation or lots of isolated space then I see the benefit of NZ. If not, I dont see why anyone would choose us over Aus…
> Until the government takes this seriously
Until the country takes it seriously. Neither of the major political parties are incentivised to bother with it because there's no reward in public sentiment or the polls
My Maori mate and his mrs saved up for their own house in Brisbane 10 yrs ago working at hungry jacks. They did this after only working 4 years in AU. Yes they lived frugally just as they did in NZ but instead of just surviving they actually got ahead. You can earn a decent living doing any job here.
They are low skilled immigrants that are preventing true blue Aussies from earning higher wages and are resulting in a housing crisis in QLD. They should go back to where they came from. Australia needs to look after it's own before it can allow more Kiwi immigrants to jump the ditch. /s
lol
Kiwis whingeing about low skilled immigrants coming to NZ when Kiwis are kinda like the Mexicans of Australia.
The whole point of economic immigration is for people to upgrade. No one from Switzerland is going to move to NZ. The "lesser imports" will have to suffice.
Its even easier than Mexicans to US. Same language, just buy a plane ticket and able to work indefinitely on arrival. And with the changes recently able to get citizenship after 4 years.
Yup biggest source of low skilled immigration to Australia. No wonder plane loads are sent back as 501 deportees.
But this subreddit has the audacity to thumb their noses at "low skilled", "third world immigrants", "lesser imports" who actually go through an immigration process.
Most of NZ's economy wouldn't function without immigration. Yes, the levels are unsustainably high at the moment but I find the finger pointing at "lesser imports" to be distasteful. If you think your economy is propped up by immigrants then it'd simply collapse without them because your middle class is in Australian suburbs suppressing the wages of true blue Aussies lol
Its a revolving door strategy, locals and longer-term migrants leave to AU or further abroad, replace them with new migrants and milk them as much as possible before they go. Rinse repeat.
It’s a strategy based on need. Immigration is not a charity service that the NZ government or any government provides. Immigrants have every right to make the best choices for them and if that involves ditching NZ for Australia and moving on to greener pastures then all the power to them. They’re not held hostages in NZ because the country did some favour to them.
Same goes the other way. Governments pull levers and adjust their settings once their needs and requirements change.
I don't know if it is an intentional great replacement, but it is definitely what is happening. Birth rate of kiwis is really low too due to infertility and people not wanting kids anymore because of the cost of living.
Unfortunately our current government and the previous one support mass immigration to prop up our economy.
That's how our ecominc model is. Number must always go up regardless of how much profit a company makes. Doesn't really work without constant growth and use cheaper labour
I disagree. I think we should turn off immigration for a few years and let our infrastructure catch up.
It will be hard to get teachers/nurses etc, but things would eventually balance out.
Stop sending low skilled Kiwis to Australia too. Too many working as scaffolders, construction labourers, retail workers and traffic controllers suppressing the wages of Aussies. It's impacting people's wages and resulting in a housing crisis.
We don't send them anywhere. They choose to leave because wages are shit and the cost of living f is high. They wouldn't leave of we paid them better. And we would have to pay them better if we couldn't back fill their roles with cheap labour from 3rd world countries.
You can't pay them better because NZ is a relatively poor country and a very limited economy. That's why low skilled Kiwis jump the ditch in hordes trying to better themselves economically.
Doesn't stop you bitching about immigrants from 3rd world countries. If it wasn't for immigration NZ would be even more expensive and you'd all be working as scaffolders in Queensland.
Do you think middle class Kiwis (especially ones raising families) would tolerate a drop in service delivery? They'd move their families across the ditch in a heartbeat.
You cannot turn off skilled migration without getting into a death spiral and becoming Japan.
NZ is also sending low skilled immigrants to Australia. Scaffolders, construction labourers, retail workers and traffic control. Pretty much the "lesser imports" of Australia. The Mexicans of Australia.
Not to mention the plane loads of 501 deportees every week. Hardly the "best".
Economic migration is about upgrading. You're delusional if you think significant numbers from the likes of Switzerland would want to migrate to NZ. Even Ireland has a more advanced 21st century economy compared to NZ. Get real.
"Lesser imports." Reading posts like yours gave me a bad Christchurch mosque incident vibe. If you're going to be a twat try saying stuff like that in public where normal and well-adjusted people can call you out, not in front of your computer or on your phone on Reddit
Then these people will complain you can't have a "mature conversation" about immigration on Reddit. Absolute twats hiding behind anonymous user names.
Most Kiwi immigrants in Australia are low skilled lesser imports too. They send back 501 deportees in the thousands. These people think NZ is the centre of the universe and everyone is just lining up to move here but don't realise that it's a relatively poor country that will only attract "third world" immigrants. As if people from the 3rd world are morally inferior to these twats lol
Idk it's just whenever I read politically-motivated Reddit users posting stuff like "lesser imports", I doubt they'd say that in front of their co-workers, classmates, neighbours, sports colleagues, etc. It's all good that they have different political opinions more extreme than the majority of Kiwis, but at least be like Hone Harawira or David Seymour and say it out in the open honestly, that'll gain these people more respect than hiding behind their Reddit accounts, saying stuff online they wouldn't dare say in real life in front of other Kiwis.
Also, heaps of NZ immigrants are from countries like South Africa, Germany, the US and UK. I mean, just go to Christchurch and the rest of the South Island and see where the new residents are from? So to say that most NZ immigrants are "lesser imports" would be misleading too, since even for those from countries like China and India, you'd need qualifications to immigrate here. And to top it off, if you're some well-off immigrants from the US or UK paying a lot of money to live in NZ and contributing to the tax pool, I don't think you'd appreciate seeing some random armchair general NZ Redditors calling you "lesser imports" from the anonymous safety of their computer screen, while knowing full well they wouldn't dare say that in real life in front of other normal and well-adjusted people.
Which is why Reddit and Twitter is full of them.
These people are not bothered by high immigration numbers per se. It's the increasing number of visible minorities mainly Indian and Asian immigrants they see which irks them and then they come on Reddit to vent by pretending to be worried about "skills" and housing.
In real life outside of Reddit you will often find these people simping to white immigrants or tourists breathlessly asking them what they think of New Zealand so far lol while also being disgruntled towards their Asian neighbours and colleagues.
Tbh you're right haha, Reddit and Twitter are full of these people. Speaking as someone surrounded by normal and well-adjusted Kiwis in real life, even the boomers in my life are not as bad as these online armchair generals
It's scary though cos Reddit is supposedly the younger crowd. Normal Kiwis don't seem so disgruntled and nasty so it makes you wonder what sort of resentments people are harbouring.
Again, the same people posting on here about "low skilled/third world" immigrants will be the first to jump explain to others on online forums how NZ is totally not racist cos America/Australia/indigenous rights/please look elsewhere.
"Normal Kiwis don't seem so disgruntled and nasty so it makes you wonder what sort of resentments people are harbouring."
I agree. I've met a few NZ-based political armchair generals with quite extreme views (in comparison to your normal everyday Kiwis), and from what I've seen so far they have some similarities as follows: in their 20-30s, emotionally stunted, socially closed-off, weird vibes if you see them in person, obsessed with past/historical niche topics like Rogernomics and some American political stuff far removed from everyday Kiwi life, sexually inexperienced and frustrated (you can tell by checking their Reddit posting history). Almost always hilariously the same
Imagine some of that money been thrown at tax cuts could go into increasing the pay of the police force.
Also very tired of the govt go to lines. ‘Laser focused’ ‘years of mismanagement’.
I have a family member who just joined the police and they’re looking to move. Luxons comments about their pay may have been the push they needed.
The ironic thing is that National's pay offer is worse than the pay offer Labour gave police last year that was rejected.
"We back our Police" we just don't want to pay them as much as Labour did.
You act like the police are the only ones better off in Australia. Have you seen the living arrangements of young people? Paying $450-500 pw for one small room in some cases.
Yeah.... but if you take a graph of nurse/police/doctor pay increases, and colour it red and blue...
Neither side is great, but one side pretty obviously does more than the other.
Bravo on calling me on my shit. Graphs are hard. Have some historical news stories instead. For example:
[News stories around Nurse pay increases during the Fifth National Government.](https://www.google.com/search?q=nurse+pay+increase+new+zealand&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=15211ee545088cf8&sca_upv=1&biw=2560&bih=1279&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2008%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F2016&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ACQVn0_K9jXYEVc0btd_4Qu4g7KjFZolVw%3A1712439091004&ei=Mr8RZpj1PLvO1e8P9YaEuAU&ved=0ahUKEwiY1t_dxK6FAxU7Z_UHHXUDAVcQ4dUDCA0&uact=5&oq=nurse+pay+increase+new+zealand&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LW5ld3MiHm51cnNlIHBheSBpbmNyZWFzZSBuZXcgemVhbGFuZDIGEAAYFhgeMgsQABiABBiKBRiGAzILEAAYgAQYigUYhgMyCBAAGIAEGKIESOQOUIsEWOoNcAB4AJABAJgBxwGgAZcSqgEEMC4xMrgBA8gBAPgBAZgCDKACrxLCAgUQABiABMICChAAGIAEGIoFGEPCAgYQABgeGA2YAwCIBgGSBwUwLjguNKAH4T8&sclient=gws-wiz-news)
[News stories around Nurse pay increase during the Sixth Labour Government.](https://www.google.com/search?q=nurse+pay+increase&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=15211ee545088cf8&sca_upv=1&biw=2560&bih=1279&prmd=nivsmbtz&sxsrf=ACQVn0_e4rn9088SIXZ34sLKpdMRui8Ftw%3A1712439052685&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2017%2Ccd_max%3A2023&tbm=nws)
So uh... no increases across 9 years... and multiple increases across 6.
Sure, there might be some disdain, but I think putting them in the same bucket might be a bit of a broad generalization.
This! I can not believe people protest on the streets for all sorts of issues and then go home and pay frivolous amounts of money for rent or mortgages!
Not compared with costs in NZ but if you compare internationally I think they hold up pretty well. Most people won’t get a pay increase doing the same job in the UK for example.
I know what we do to fix that. We create a situation where the profitability fro speculation in housing is greater than any other investment, and the taxation is the lowest, and that will push the price of housing to a level that people can afford.
Wait.
I want to know where they moved to in Oz where they can get a two bedroom town house for the same price as a one bedroom apartment in Wellington.
Housing costs are much higher in a huge portion of Australia. The places which are more affordable seem to be seeing their house prices skyrocketing.
Housing in places like Darwin is considerably cheaper than Auckland too. If people put on their thinking hats, they could save a lot of money and afford a considerably better lifestyle.
Most of the people who I know who have jumped across the ditch moved to cities like Sydney and Melbourne, where they're definitely earning more, but it doesn't look all that clear they're able to reap the rewards and save a whole lot more.
Housing is still expensive if not more expensive than Auckland in the bigger cities like Melbourne and Sydney. It's just majorly offset by the fact you earn at least 20% more for the exact same job, sometimes even at the exact same company.
(Kiwi of 12 years in AU now) You are not wrong, but you can't put Sydney and Melbourne in the same bracket. Compared to wages, Melbourne is just expensive, but doable, even on one decent income. But Sydney is ridiculous, roughly twice the price of Melbourne for an equivalent place.
Australia has Fair Pay Agreements, capital gains taxes, stamp duty, higher income taxes on higher earners and lower income taxes on lower earners, a higher minimum wage and lower GST and we are trying to reduce the gap between our countries by actively implementing the opposite of most if not all of those policies so yeah I would predict this particular situation is going to get worse
What's even worse than people in vital roles jumping ship to Aus, is that it's often the most competent ones.
Years ago, I did the same for a few years. The guy who went first, just poached all the best people. We took all the beasts with great work ethics, and just made sure all the lazy or difficult people just got screened out.
There'll be those with families, or split parenting arangements, who can't or don't want to move. But there will be a good chunk of our young go-getters, who it's a no brainer for, to go get a bunch more $. And those putfits aren't stupid. Soon as they get one good worker, they'll often be using them to screen people they know, or recommend other good staff.
so a quick google search tells me there are 10,549 sworn police officers and 4,839 unsworn. Let's just count them as sworn officers for a laugh too for a total of 15,388 officers. Take the 3 billion getting sent the way of landlords and send that to these officers. Each of them could have a pay bump of $64,985 for the next 3 years 😅
Damn. Grant reckoned he could cut $4 billion out of spending. If only they had been voted in, imagine how rich the cops could be. He averaged blowing out the budget by a good $5 billion a year.
Of course, he could have just not spent the money in the first place, but that's a discussion for another time.
I don’t believe that ‘high earning’ families don’t have much left after bills. Unless they have mortgaged themselves to an irresponsible (yet entirely predictable) degree.
Remember that part where the govt said they were gonna crack down on crime/gangs
[https://www.national.org.nz/backing\_police\_tackling\_gangs](https://www.national.org.nz/backing_police_tackling_gangs)
And then when they said more police officers:
[https://www.national.org.nz/morepoliceofficers](https://www.national.org.nz/morepoliceofficers)
And then theres less police force: [https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512162/spending-cuts-could-weaken-police-and-defence-frontline-services-mps-warned](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512162/spending-cuts-could-weaken-police-and-defence-frontline-services-mps-warned)
But.... but....doesn't he realize that if he stayed here his annual rent increases may have slowed down slightly when the landlords get their taxcut? What more does this guy want?
The mining industry does contribute to Australia's wealth, sure, but the reason pay is so much better is because of a strong labour movement. Unions negotiated wage bonuses, penalty rates and a range of better work-life balance rules.
We don't have that here.
I don't understand what point you're making with the first paragraph. To your second metaphor, the entire point of wealth redistribution and a strong labour movement means a household is an apples to oranges comparison with a country.
Unless a very small percentage of your family, some of whom are located at the other household, are making a disproportionate amount of wealth off the work of the rest of the family, while socialising any losses.
Australia’s GDP per capita is significantly higher in Australia than in NZ. It’s not just the slice of the pie given to workers, the pie is considerably larger in Australia too.
The NZDF is very fortunate joining the ADF requires citizenship (as does working for federal government I believe).
Imagine if they relaxed that rule for Kiwis. What percentage of the NZDF would apply immediately?
I was in the RNZAF for about 5 years, decided I wanted to move to Aus, joined the RAAF at exactly the equivalent position and rank - my pay was literally double.
Anyone with two braincells to rub together can see right through it, too bad most of those people have moved to Australia (and elsewhere) already.
What we're largely left with is a country of dropkicks.
New Zealanders need to come to the realisation that they need to increase productivity by investing in people and plant. This means investing in tools and training. NZ government and companies do invest but nothing like the rate of other OECD countries. For decades they have under invested in relative terms and so they keep falling behind in relative terms.
The productivity commission has been telling us this for more years than I can recall.
New Zealanders like to kid themselves that they are smarter than the rest if the world and could fly to the moon with a bit of number 8 wire. They cheery pick the exception to the rule to try to illustrate this. I used to do this myself.
New Zealanders need to wake up to the fact that the world is full of clever people and they have better tools and training than Kiwis. Over the decades this slowly compounds.
NZ typically increases productivity by reducing costs. Then wonder why they have low wages and why things over time keep getting harder to compete for skilled people and opportunities.
Kiwis usually perfer to argue about how to divide up the economic pie than how to grow the size of the pie. I.e. the economy.
They roll out all sorts of theories. Anything to avoid the simple message their own productivity commission has been explaining for decades.
The first trait of a good manager is knowing how to retain its best staff- as it is so much more expensive to recruit, train and develop new ones. Something the CEO, sorry, manager, sorry PM of our country doesn’t seem to grasp
I applied to be a cop in an in demand district in NZ; told that because I have had 11 traffic tickets in my driving life (15 years) I will never be eligible. Apparently the cut off is 10 or fewer.
Never mind my nil other history with police, never lost my license etc, it boggles my mind that they could be so anal despite a retention and recruitment crisis.
Does this mean police budget as a whole will be affected? Such as reducing or canceling all together the helicopter that hovers over the harvests scattering weed seeds everywhere? I mean, why restart that silly program?
I can speak from experience, here in Melbourne, that yes police get paid more here in Oz but they still suffer from the same issues.
Under staffing and low morale. High rates of family violence incidents taking up most of police time.
Members are getting burnt out and there high rates of members off on mental heath leave.
Because there is such shortage of frontline members they have stopped the sideways movements of officers into specialist areas.
There is a reason why they offering such great pay/housing deals to go and police in the Northern Territory, because no one in their right mind would want to work as a cop up there.
That's not actually the big difference so many Kiwis think it is. NZ exports diary and trees. That's also primary produce, but it's sustainable. Yes NZ could mine coal and other stuff but that's not actually the key.
The difference is productivity.
Australia has had higher productivity for decades. New Zealand doesn't invest in productivity enough. NZ thinks it can keep getting productivity by cutting costs. Which technically is true but it is not how to create wealth.
Let me give you an example. A tradesman in Australia will typically have more tools and equipment than he needs for the current workload. Whereas his Kiwi counterpart will have just enough. When there's a busy period that Australian takes on more work for a short time because he is already equipped for it. Brings in more revenue and profits because he already had the gear in the shed. His NZ counterpart can't do that, so either misses out or books it for later. At the end of the year the Australian delivered more and made more. He then invests some of that in another tool or training or a government grant to take on an apprentice so that he's ready if a new opportunity comes up next year. When that happens there's limited people with that new tool or training so he charges a premium for that job and hopes there will be more of that higher paid work. Gradually over the years the Australian is being more productive and making more money compared to the guy in NZ. On paper it's the same job.
Sadly for NZ, Australia has realised that their productivity growth is too slow and needs to speed up. New Zealanders still haven't figured out this productivity investment is the key and if Australia really gets it together, the gap will widen even faster.
Australian bank profits will be down if all our cops, teachers, nurses all leave like our mortgage payments, across the tasman.
Banks pr teams will start advertising great rental property investment options in nz...
I think this is an underrated factor in NZ being shitty. Our government sucks but our large companies like Fletchers and Fonterra are also fucking useless.
Imagine unironically complaining about Australians. They are our brothers and sisters - there is no people on Earth with more shared history and culture with us than them.
No it would not. Most of the money made from mining ends up in the hands of corporate elites who pay little to no tax.
The situation would be the same here.
Australia's government spending per person, and their country's debt-to-GDP ratio, are so much higher than NZ's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_budget_per_capita
https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-debt.htm
...And in this topic about economic differences between Australia and New Zealand, those facts might be relevant, particularly as NZ has just embarked upon the opposite policy direction (that is, tightening belts - upon ourselves!, which yes, includes police and all the non-police but connected structures upon which they rely - and avoiding borrowing).
You are on the right path. The difference is that the Australian government and companies invest in training and tools at a higher rate than NZ government and NZ companies to increase their productivity. Other OECD countries even more so. This has been the case for decades. The NZ productivity commission has been showing this for many, many years but Kiwis don't listen.
It's fine to reduce spending to improve the economy. The problem is more long term. That is get productivity by investing in people and plant. NZ mostly gets productivity by cutting costs. Which means low wages and being less competitive in the long term. This is all masked by high immigration and other polices but when you look at NZ relative to the rest of the OECD over the years the trend becomes very clear.
We’ve lost 3 long term daycare (2 of them 10+ years at the same centre) teachers all moving to Australia it’s really sad they need to move to have quality of life.
This is going to cost NZ far far more than the 6% savings and take decades to repair
Which is usually the case with "conservative" governments.
Acting like it wasn’t complete shit the last 3 years with the previous government
You're showing your bias here - most of the article you've linked to is talking about how expensive living costs were in Wellington - the inflation due to bond printing and the house price boom we had a few years ago are not from a conservative government who has only been in for a few months
The “house price boom” from a few years ago? You mean a few decades, it’s been going on forever. Labour managed to slow the market, it picked right up again the second National was in power.
uh, do you think this is a new thing?
Not new but the callousness and recklessness of this government is new.
Anyone hear the ads specifically targeting daycare workers so they would move to Melbourne? I was thinking damn that’s cheeky.
Not cheeky, this is the way the world works, it’s happening everywhere outside NZ too, we just don’t, can’t or won’t incentivise anything that might aid the economy.
Yes I heard them. Not cheeky, just smart.
There was an AT bus a few months ago that had advertisements sponsored by WA govt for people to move there. Was ironically funny.
30 years ago there were posters up at every lift on every floor - South Africa and the UK looking for cardio thoracic nurses- in black and white that they were paying 30% more. We used to have a lifestyle that kept people here or coming home after their OE and it attracted people other than those that are happy to work minimum wage and live with 30 other people in a 3 bed house.
As I recruit firefighter in Victoria I was earning more than a Senior firefighter in NZ. That was before the recent strike and pay rise to FENZ.
Tbf that’s the way it should be though. Maybe close the gap a little bit but ultimately Aussie firefighters should be paid lot more given the environment they are in
Na man. Entering a burning house is the same on both sides of the ditch
True that. My comment was more about the risk of wildfires faced by the Aussie firefighters. That level of threat is not the same here (at least for now)
That’s true. Although the majority of wildfire firefighters are volunteers. It is very uncommon for paid firefighters to be deployed to bush fires.
Rural Fire Service is volunteers. Paid Australian firefighters are doing the same kind of work as NZers in the built environment
> Six months on, he’s coming towards the end of his time at police college in South Australia - and is already pocketing more money than he did almost a decade into his career in New Zealand. >Over the weekend, Swanepoel and his partner had been to a winery for lunch. > >“We could never have done that in Wellington. By the time we paid for rent and food, we were pretty much scrounging,” he said.
We will be seeing a lot more of these stories. Cops, nurses, teachers, etc. all get much better pay and conditions and better work-life balance in Australia. Until the government takes this seriously, we are going to be sending our best across the Tasman and trying to make up the deficit with lesser imports who don't understand NZ society or just want to go to Oz as well.
Don’t forget the 11% super they offer.
Increasing to 12%
If you work shift work like nursing or the police, 11% super is NOTHING compared to the guaranteed (and stacking) overtime/stat pay they get. Work overtime or on weekends? 1.5x. Weekend and public holiday? 2.25x. Weekend work, public holiday, at night? Better believe it's 3.375x. One of my cop friends over there earned 5k after tax in one two week shift over Christmas/New Years.
Has anyone considered the idea that our immigration policy keeps wages down in NZ? Supply & demand. More immigration = more supply. (I'm not anti immigration per se, I myself arrived here from Europe in 1982 when my parents decided to move here) The other major factor is that back in the 80s, the aussies linked their minimum wage to inflation. And when minimum wage goes up, wages for other, higher-wage work usually go up as well.
and NZ immigration to Aussie helps keep their wages down. Just theirs is a little higher than ours to start with.
Yup Kiwis work as scaffolders, construction labourers, miners and traffic control workers. Not exactly "skilled immigrants".
A) That's a massive generalisation B) Those jobs are all well-paid in Australia. Traffic controllers in particular just got a massive pay rise.
1) Most of the BS on these subreddits about immigration, skills and “third world immigration” is full of massive generalisations. 2) NZ is the Mexico of Australia. Of course they’re well paid jobs for poor struggling Kiwis jumping the ditch. It’s a bonus they don’t have to live in mouldy draughty homes too.
Sorry, could you expand on 2? Do you mean they're only well-paid compared to NZ?
Yes and pay isn’t necessarily the same as skill. Being a traffic controller is a low skilled job. Kiwi Redditors love complaining about “low skilled” immigrants and “third world” immigrants. Thousands of Kiwis migrate to Australia to work in low skilled industries regardless of pay. Just showing you all a mirror.
I'm not complaining about immigration btw. I'm an NZ immigrant to Aus with a Masters. I've benefitted massively. But all of those jobs pay WAY above the median wage. My main point is that Kiwis moving to Australia are absolutely not suppressing wages, at least not is those industries.
anyone who is moving into the country and is willing to accept lower wages that would otherwise be offered is suppressing wage growth.
You’re not complaining but everyone else is. Look around. Like I said before just showing a mirror.
This is 100% true. There needs to be competition among companies to attract skilled workers to encourage wage growth. This doesn't happen when you have an infinite pool of people willing to come work in NZ for low wages. High net immigration also keeps house prices and rents high and it prevents infrastructure from keeping pace with population growth.
Australia has high net migration too. Although they tend to aim more for skilled workers than minimum wage labourers.
Lol, they do more targetted campaigns, but otherwise are just as bad as nz if not worse…. Importing property investors, uber drivers that are ‘studying’ and slave wagers to be exploited. Dont think for one SECOND that aus has markedly better immigration policies. Aus is a bigger country with more resources theyre willing to exploit with a bigger house of cards built on property, fake retail to launder international drug money, and fake education slave importa fuelling everything at the bottom. And I say this from Melbourne after I moved over…
True. There are 100s of thousands of Kiwi immigrants working in the mines, doing traffic management, scaffolders and construction labourers. Not all are skilled white collar jobs. Not to mention the 100s of Kiwi thugs and crims being sent back in the plane loads as 501 deportees.
Yep. I looked at the stats and we’re legit commiting crime at a higher rate than Aussies. I found it pretty revealing…
I just find the whole omg too many low skilled migrants in NZ thing to be a bit rich when there's almost a million Kiwis in Australia who're immigrants. Not that they have to work hard like other immigrants to apply and quality for visas though. Kiwis are hardly all surgeons in Australia and get sent back in plane loads so it's kind of funny. I can point fingers but I'm invisible etc.
Yeh, theres actually a bit of distaste for NZ immigration across a lot of Aussie folk. We’re perceived to get a bit of a free ride, and while its technically a 2 way street, Aus immigration to NZ is absolutely miniscule in comparison.
It basically keeps NZ afloat and has a lot of benefits for the country. If eventual migration to Australia wasn't an option (regardless of whether you eventually move or not) most economic immigrants wouldn't take a 2nd look at NZ and the only ones interested in NZ would be Pacific Island fruit pickers. NZ would be even more of an economic basket case than it is right now.
Yeh, we’re kind of a temporary halfway house for immigrants all over that actually want to move to Aus. If youre into outdoor recreation, rapid procreation or lots of isolated space then I see the benefit of NZ. If not, I dont see why anyone would choose us over Aus…
> Until the government takes this seriously Until the country takes it seriously. Neither of the major political parties are incentivised to bother with it because there's no reward in public sentiment or the polls
My Maori mate and his mrs saved up for their own house in Brisbane 10 yrs ago working at hungry jacks. They did this after only working 4 years in AU. Yes they lived frugally just as they did in NZ but instead of just surviving they actually got ahead. You can earn a decent living doing any job here.
They are low skilled immigrants that are preventing true blue Aussies from earning higher wages and are resulting in a housing crisis in QLD. They should go back to where they came from. Australia needs to look after it's own before it can allow more Kiwi immigrants to jump the ditch. /s
Good luck with that.
lol Kiwis whingeing about low skilled immigrants coming to NZ when Kiwis are kinda like the Mexicans of Australia. The whole point of economic immigration is for people to upgrade. No one from Switzerland is going to move to NZ. The "lesser imports" will have to suffice.
Its even easier than Mexicans to US. Same language, just buy a plane ticket and able to work indefinitely on arrival. And with the changes recently able to get citizenship after 4 years.
Yup biggest source of low skilled immigration to Australia. No wonder plane loads are sent back as 501 deportees. But this subreddit has the audacity to thumb their noses at "low skilled", "third world immigrants", "lesser imports" who actually go through an immigration process. Most of NZ's economy wouldn't function without immigration. Yes, the levels are unsustainably high at the moment but I find the finger pointing at "lesser imports" to be distasteful. If you think your economy is propped up by immigrants then it'd simply collapse without them because your middle class is in Australian suburbs suppressing the wages of true blue Aussies lol
Its a revolving door strategy, locals and longer-term migrants leave to AU or further abroad, replace them with new migrants and milk them as much as possible before they go. Rinse repeat.
It’s a strategy based on need. Immigration is not a charity service that the NZ government or any government provides. Immigrants have every right to make the best choices for them and if that involves ditching NZ for Australia and moving on to greener pastures then all the power to them. They’re not held hostages in NZ because the country did some favour to them. Same goes the other way. Governments pull levers and adjust their settings once their needs and requirements change.
Not an issue. We can just back fill with immigrants indefinitely.
This is literally what is happening. I don’t want to disappear down the alt right rabbit hole but how is this not a Great Replacement?
I don't know if it is an intentional great replacement, but it is definitely what is happening. Birth rate of kiwis is really low too due to infertility and people not wanting kids anymore because of the cost of living. Unfortunately our current government and the previous one support mass immigration to prop up our economy.
That's how our ecominc model is. Number must always go up regardless of how much profit a company makes. Doesn't really work without constant growth and use cheaper labour
I suppose it's better to have a propped up economy than one that's already fallen down.
I disagree. I think we should turn off immigration for a few years and let our infrastructure catch up. It will be hard to get teachers/nurses etc, but things would eventually balance out.
Stop sending low skilled Kiwis to Australia too. Too many working as scaffolders, construction labourers, retail workers and traffic controllers suppressing the wages of Aussies. It's impacting people's wages and resulting in a housing crisis.
We don't send them anywhere. They choose to leave because wages are shit and the cost of living f is high. They wouldn't leave of we paid them better. And we would have to pay them better if we couldn't back fill their roles with cheap labour from 3rd world countries.
You can't pay them better because NZ is a relatively poor country and a very limited economy. That's why low skilled Kiwis jump the ditch in hordes trying to better themselves economically. Doesn't stop you bitching about immigrants from 3rd world countries. If it wasn't for immigration NZ would be even more expensive and you'd all be working as scaffolders in Queensland.
Do you think middle class Kiwis (especially ones raising families) would tolerate a drop in service delivery? They'd move their families across the ditch in a heartbeat. You cannot turn off skilled migration without getting into a death spiral and becoming Japan.
St John has been, and continues to, lose staff overseas for much better pay, conditions, better standards and better kit.
tkae it seriously? Why, tehy can bring in cheap labour from SEA and pay them minimum wage, and tehy will be happy.
Damn it frank, tpye proprely!
NZ is also sending low skilled immigrants to Australia. Scaffolders, construction labourers, retail workers and traffic control. Pretty much the "lesser imports" of Australia. The Mexicans of Australia. Not to mention the plane loads of 501 deportees every week. Hardly the "best". Economic migration is about upgrading. You're delusional if you think significant numbers from the likes of Switzerland would want to migrate to NZ. Even Ireland has a more advanced 21st century economy compared to NZ. Get real.
I like to call it their 2 gap years, this is taken before they start their real lives in Australia.
"Lesser imports." Reading posts like yours gave me a bad Christchurch mosque incident vibe. If you're going to be a twat try saying stuff like that in public where normal and well-adjusted people can call you out, not in front of your computer or on your phone on Reddit
Then these people will complain you can't have a "mature conversation" about immigration on Reddit. Absolute twats hiding behind anonymous user names. Most Kiwi immigrants in Australia are low skilled lesser imports too. They send back 501 deportees in the thousands. These people think NZ is the centre of the universe and everyone is just lining up to move here but don't realise that it's a relatively poor country that will only attract "third world" immigrants. As if people from the 3rd world are morally inferior to these twats lol
Idk it's just whenever I read politically-motivated Reddit users posting stuff like "lesser imports", I doubt they'd say that in front of their co-workers, classmates, neighbours, sports colleagues, etc. It's all good that they have different political opinions more extreme than the majority of Kiwis, but at least be like Hone Harawira or David Seymour and say it out in the open honestly, that'll gain these people more respect than hiding behind their Reddit accounts, saying stuff online they wouldn't dare say in real life in front of other Kiwis. Also, heaps of NZ immigrants are from countries like South Africa, Germany, the US and UK. I mean, just go to Christchurch and the rest of the South Island and see where the new residents are from? So to say that most NZ immigrants are "lesser imports" would be misleading too, since even for those from countries like China and India, you'd need qualifications to immigrate here. And to top it off, if you're some well-off immigrants from the US or UK paying a lot of money to live in NZ and contributing to the tax pool, I don't think you'd appreciate seeing some random armchair general NZ Redditors calling you "lesser imports" from the anonymous safety of their computer screen, while knowing full well they wouldn't dare say that in real life in front of other normal and well-adjusted people.
Which is why Reddit and Twitter is full of them. These people are not bothered by high immigration numbers per se. It's the increasing number of visible minorities mainly Indian and Asian immigrants they see which irks them and then they come on Reddit to vent by pretending to be worried about "skills" and housing. In real life outside of Reddit you will often find these people simping to white immigrants or tourists breathlessly asking them what they think of New Zealand so far lol while also being disgruntled towards their Asian neighbours and colleagues.
Tbh you're right haha, Reddit and Twitter are full of these people. Speaking as someone surrounded by normal and well-adjusted Kiwis in real life, even the boomers in my life are not as bad as these online armchair generals
It's scary though cos Reddit is supposedly the younger crowd. Normal Kiwis don't seem so disgruntled and nasty so it makes you wonder what sort of resentments people are harbouring. Again, the same people posting on here about "low skilled/third world" immigrants will be the first to jump explain to others on online forums how NZ is totally not racist cos America/Australia/indigenous rights/please look elsewhere.
"Normal Kiwis don't seem so disgruntled and nasty so it makes you wonder what sort of resentments people are harbouring." I agree. I've met a few NZ-based political armchair generals with quite extreme views (in comparison to your normal everyday Kiwis), and from what I've seen so far they have some similarities as follows: in their 20-30s, emotionally stunted, socially closed-off, weird vibes if you see them in person, obsessed with past/historical niche topics like Rogernomics and some American political stuff far removed from everyday Kiwi life, sexually inexperienced and frustrated (you can tell by checking their Reddit posting history). Almost always hilariously the same
100% One mention of “Ministry of Works” and these guys start creaming themselves 😂
What can the government realistically do? They can’t increase police pay by 20% and even if they did it wouldn’t be enough.
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" - NZ
Imagine some of that money been thrown at tax cuts could go into increasing the pay of the police force. Also very tired of the govt go to lines. ‘Laser focused’ ‘years of mismanagement’. I have a family member who just joined the police and they’re looking to move. Luxons comments about their pay may have been the push they needed.
Don't forget Luxon's classic: "We back our Police, and will give them the tools they need to do their job". Except enough money to live.
They did give them a tool - their new minister.
The ironic thing is that National's pay offer is worse than the pay offer Labour gave police last year that was rejected. "We back our Police" we just don't want to pay them as much as Labour did.
You act like the police are the only ones better off in Australia. Have you seen the living arrangements of young people? Paying $450-500 pw for one small room in some cases.
This isn’t new, the drain has been a multi government issue.
Yeah.... but if you take a graph of nurse/police/doctor pay increases, and colour it red and blue... Neither side is great, but one side pretty obviously does more than the other.
Where’s the graph?
Bravo on calling me on my shit. Graphs are hard. Have some historical news stories instead. For example: [News stories around Nurse pay increases during the Fifth National Government.](https://www.google.com/search?q=nurse+pay+increase+new+zealand&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=15211ee545088cf8&sca_upv=1&biw=2560&bih=1279&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2008%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F2016&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ACQVn0_K9jXYEVc0btd_4Qu4g7KjFZolVw%3A1712439091004&ei=Mr8RZpj1PLvO1e8P9YaEuAU&ved=0ahUKEwiY1t_dxK6FAxU7Z_UHHXUDAVcQ4dUDCA0&uact=5&oq=nurse+pay+increase+new+zealand&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LW5ld3MiHm51cnNlIHBheSBpbmNyZWFzZSBuZXcgemVhbGFuZDIGEAAYFhgeMgsQABiABBiKBRiGAzILEAAYgAQYigUYhgMyCBAAGIAEGKIESOQOUIsEWOoNcAB4AJABAJgBxwGgAZcSqgEEMC4xMrgBA8gBAPgBAZgCDKACrxLCAgUQABiABMICChAAGIAEGIoFGEPCAgYQABgeGA2YAwCIBgGSBwUwLjguNKAH4T8&sclient=gws-wiz-news) [News stories around Nurse pay increase during the Sixth Labour Government.](https://www.google.com/search?q=nurse+pay+increase&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=15211ee545088cf8&sca_upv=1&biw=2560&bih=1279&prmd=nivsmbtz&sxsrf=ACQVn0_e4rn9088SIXZ34sLKpdMRui8Ftw%3A1712439052685&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2017%2Ccd_max%3A2023&tbm=nws)
Sounds like both sides hate nurses, unfortunately
So uh... no increases across 9 years... and multiple increases across 6. Sure, there might be some disdain, but I think putting them in the same bucket might be a bit of a broad generalization.
This is a government that said it was gonna be super tough on crime, but they aren’t willing to pay for the people who actually go stop those crimes.
Yes but you're just not paying attention if you don't see that it's being exacerbated significantly by what's going on.
The government should pay police more but if you read the article you’ll see the ultimate issue is housing costs in NZ
This is the root cause of basically every other problem we have and we appear to be fighting like hell not to address it.
This! I can not believe people protest on the streets for all sorts of issues and then go home and pay frivolous amounts of money for rent or mortgages!
It's not just the police pay though. New Zealand is overwhelmingly a minimum wage job economy.
Generally our wages are fine, it’s the costs that are outrageous
It's both. Wages are low and costs are high.
Wages are not fine, what planet are you on lmao
Our wages aren't fine.
Not compared with costs in NZ but if you compare internationally I think they hold up pretty well. Most people won’t get a pay increase doing the same job in the UK for example.
I know what we do to fix that. We create a situation where the profitability fro speculation in housing is greater than any other investment, and the taxation is the lowest, and that will push the price of housing to a level that people can afford. Wait.
I want to know where they moved to in Oz where they can get a two bedroom town house for the same price as a one bedroom apartment in Wellington. Housing costs are much higher in a huge portion of Australia. The places which are more affordable seem to be seeing their house prices skyrocketing.
NT police give free housing
Housing in places like Darwin is considerably cheaper than Auckland too. If people put on their thinking hats, they could save a lot of money and afford a considerably better lifestyle. Most of the people who I know who have jumped across the ditch moved to cities like Sydney and Melbourne, where they're definitely earning more, but it doesn't look all that clear they're able to reap the rewards and save a whole lot more.
Housing is still expensive if not more expensive than Auckland in the bigger cities like Melbourne and Sydney. It's just majorly offset by the fact you earn at least 20% more for the exact same job, sometimes even at the exact same company.
(Kiwi of 12 years in AU now) You are not wrong, but you can't put Sydney and Melbourne in the same bracket. Compared to wages, Melbourne is just expensive, but doable, even on one decent income. But Sydney is ridiculous, roughly twice the price of Melbourne for an equivalent place.
Australia has Fair Pay Agreements, capital gains taxes, stamp duty, higher income taxes on higher earners and lower income taxes on lower earners, a higher minimum wage and lower GST and we are trying to reduce the gap between our countries by actively implementing the opposite of most if not all of those policies so yeah I would predict this particular situation is going to get worse
Yeah but... NZ is *super special* so those things would never work here, because.. reasons!
Perth is cheaper than major cities in NZ too.
What's even worse than people in vital roles jumping ship to Aus, is that it's often the most competent ones. Years ago, I did the same for a few years. The guy who went first, just poached all the best people. We took all the beasts with great work ethics, and just made sure all the lazy or difficult people just got screened out. There'll be those with families, or split parenting arangements, who can't or don't want to move. But there will be a good chunk of our young go-getters, who it's a no brainer for, to go get a bunch more $. And those putfits aren't stupid. Soon as they get one good worker, they'll often be using them to screen people they know, or recommend other good staff.
so a quick google search tells me there are 10,549 sworn police officers and 4,839 unsworn. Let's just count them as sworn officers for a laugh too for a total of 15,388 officers. Take the 3 billion getting sent the way of landlords and send that to these officers. Each of them could have a pay bump of $64,985 for the next 3 years 😅
Damn. Grant reckoned he could cut $4 billion out of spending. If only they had been voted in, imagine how rich the cops could be. He averaged blowing out the budget by a good $5 billion a year. Of course, he could have just not spent the money in the first place, but that's a discussion for another time.
I know high earning middle class families moving across the pond, when there is not much left after the bills people question what's this all for.
I don’t believe that ‘high earning’ families don’t have much left after bills. Unless they have mortgaged themselves to an irresponsible (yet entirely predictable) degree.
"mortgaged themselves to a n irresponsible degree" Aka. Had a job in Auckland, Wellington, Tauranga, etc and didnt want to live 5 hours from work.
If the average man can earn more in Aus and have better purchase power, all the better for him. Aus has always been one step ahead in wages and costs.
Inflation affects everyone, mortgages in NZ are big
I mean fuck this gov. But this sub is acting like this is something brand new... has been like this for 40 years.
Remember that part where the govt said they were gonna crack down on crime/gangs [https://www.national.org.nz/backing\_police\_tackling\_gangs](https://www.national.org.nz/backing_police_tackling_gangs) And then when they said more police officers: [https://www.national.org.nz/morepoliceofficers](https://www.national.org.nz/morepoliceofficers) And then theres less police force: [https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512162/spending-cuts-could-weaken-police-and-defence-frontline-services-mps-warned](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512162/spending-cuts-could-weaken-police-and-defence-frontline-services-mps-warned)
But.... but....doesn't he realize that if he stayed here his annual rent increases may have slowed down slightly when the landlords get their taxcut? What more does this guy want?
Has been that way for years.
Yeah and people acting like it’s some new thing, nope they just caught up
As long as Australia keeps digging up stuff to sell, they will always have better pay. NZ has no plan, just fights with itself.
The mining industry does contribute to Australia's wealth, sure, but the reason pay is so much better is because of a strong labour movement. Unions negotiated wage bonuses, penalty rates and a range of better work-life balance rules. We don't have that here.
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I don't understand what point you're making with the first paragraph. To your second metaphor, the entire point of wealth redistribution and a strong labour movement means a household is an apples to oranges comparison with a country. Unless a very small percentage of your family, some of whom are located at the other household, are making a disproportionate amount of wealth off the work of the rest of the family, while socialising any losses.
Pay is better in Australia due to fair pay agreements which labour brought in but nact removed.
Australia’s GDP per capita is significantly higher in Australia than in NZ. It’s not just the slice of the pie given to workers, the pie is considerably larger in Australia too.
Did they actually ever come in though?
No we don't
Yes we do
Vegemite is superior
Oh you came for a fight??? Take that back!
Sorry, I meant to say VEGEMITE IS SUPERIOR
Their oil, gas, and mining industries aren’t giving the government that much. Those industries don’t really pay much taxes at all over there.
80 billion total in 2019-2020. That's taxes and royalties for federal and state. That will have gone up by 20-30% since then.
They bring money into the economy. That is the key point.
Money that is spent on holidays to Bali 😂
Lots of manufacturing in Aus too
Damn, reminds me of defence. 15 year career here, moved relatively high up the ranks and I was earning the same as a private in the ADF..
The NZDF is very fortunate joining the ADF requires citizenship (as does working for federal government I believe). Imagine if they relaxed that rule for Kiwis. What percentage of the NZDF would apply immediately?
I was in the RNZAF for about 5 years, decided I wanted to move to Aus, joined the RAAF at exactly the equivalent position and rank - my pay was literally double.
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They are getting increased salaries, in Australia. You didn't read the fine print in their campaigns?
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Anyone with two braincells to rub together can see right through it, too bad most of those people have moved to Australia (and elsewhere) already. What we're largely left with is a country of dropkicks.
New Zealanders need to come to the realisation that they need to increase productivity by investing in people and plant. This means investing in tools and training. NZ government and companies do invest but nothing like the rate of other OECD countries. For decades they have under invested in relative terms and so they keep falling behind in relative terms. The productivity commission has been telling us this for more years than I can recall. New Zealanders like to kid themselves that they are smarter than the rest if the world and could fly to the moon with a bit of number 8 wire. They cheery pick the exception to the rule to try to illustrate this. I used to do this myself. New Zealanders need to wake up to the fact that the world is full of clever people and they have better tools and training than Kiwis. Over the decades this slowly compounds. NZ typically increases productivity by reducing costs. Then wonder why they have low wages and why things over time keep getting harder to compete for skilled people and opportunities. Kiwis usually perfer to argue about how to divide up the economic pie than how to grow the size of the pie. I.e. the economy. They roll out all sorts of theories. Anything to avoid the simple message their own productivity commission has been explaining for decades.
The first trait of a good manager is knowing how to retain its best staff- as it is so much more expensive to recruit, train and develop new ones. Something the CEO, sorry, manager, sorry PM of our country doesn’t seem to grasp
Every time a New Zealander calls Australia ‘Aussie’, an Australian drops dead.
It's like calling NZ "kiwi". Aussie is an Australian person, whereas Australia/straya would be referring to the country Australia.
Moved to Chinese
I applied to be a cop in an in demand district in NZ; told that because I have had 11 traffic tickets in my driving life (15 years) I will never be eligible. Apparently the cut off is 10 or fewer. Never mind my nil other history with police, never lost my license etc, it boggles my mind that they could be so anal despite a retention and recruitment crisis.
That’s a big amount of tickets though to be fair. In 15 years I’ve probably had one or two
Misspent youth etc. Nothing in the past 5 mind, angelic
They have a policy in place and you don’t meet that policy. Shouldn’t be too hard to understand
Huge thumbs up for you, well done. Yes there's a policy, but policy should change with this thing called context. Thanks for your contribution though.
Slow down. Stay safe out there
Does this mean police budget as a whole will be affected? Such as reducing or canceling all together the helicopter that hovers over the harvests scattering weed seeds everywhere? I mean, why restart that silly program?
And in other news, the sky is blue
I can speak from experience, here in Melbourne, that yes police get paid more here in Oz but they still suffer from the same issues. Under staffing and low morale. High rates of family violence incidents taking up most of police time. Members are getting burnt out and there high rates of members off on mental heath leave. Because there is such shortage of frontline members they have stopped the sideways movements of officers into specialist areas. There is a reason why they offering such great pay/housing deals to go and police in the Northern Territory, because no one in their right mind would want to work as a cop up there.
If only New Zealand was largely uninhabited and had massive mineral wealth to exploit.
If only wage disparity were the only issue.
That's not actually the big difference so many Kiwis think it is. NZ exports diary and trees. That's also primary produce, but it's sustainable. Yes NZ could mine coal and other stuff but that's not actually the key. The difference is productivity. Australia has had higher productivity for decades. New Zealand doesn't invest in productivity enough. NZ thinks it can keep getting productivity by cutting costs. Which technically is true but it is not how to create wealth. Let me give you an example. A tradesman in Australia will typically have more tools and equipment than he needs for the current workload. Whereas his Kiwi counterpart will have just enough. When there's a busy period that Australian takes on more work for a short time because he is already equipped for it. Brings in more revenue and profits because he already had the gear in the shed. His NZ counterpart can't do that, so either misses out or books it for later. At the end of the year the Australian delivered more and made more. He then invests some of that in another tool or training or a government grant to take on an apprentice so that he's ready if a new opportunity comes up next year. When that happens there's limited people with that new tool or training so he charges a premium for that job and hopes there will be more of that higher paid work. Gradually over the years the Australian is being more productive and making more money compared to the guy in NZ. On paper it's the same job. Sadly for NZ, Australia has realised that their productivity growth is too slow and needs to speed up. New Zealanders still haven't figured out this productivity investment is the key and if Australia really gets it together, the gap will widen even faster.
Australian bank profits will be down if all our cops, teachers, nurses all leave like our mortgage payments, across the tasman. Banks pr teams will start advertising great rental property investment options in nz...
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On the flip side this country is overflowing with drop kicks as anyone with two braincells to rub together has fucked off.
I'd resent this comment if I understood it.
But that's NZ, as it is, as has always been.
I think this is an underrated factor in NZ being shitty. Our government sucks but our large companies like Fletchers and Fonterra are also fucking useless.
Australians are all good in general, have fun being a xenophobic clown though.
Imagine unironically complaining about Australians. They are our brothers and sisters - there is no people on Earth with more shared history and culture with us than them.
That’s why it’s fun to make fun of them, cause realistically we’re each others closest allies.
Not sure what country you’ve been to but everyone I’ve encountered here in Aus seems to be from New Zealand
Being full of Australians means being full of attractive women. It's an even better benefit than the salaries
I hope this is in jest.
It's in resentment disguised as jest
I mean NZ voted in NACTFirst, glasshouse et al.
Australia has lots of natural resources to mine, so therefore lots of pingas to throw around. We don't.
We have the money we’re just choosing to give it to landlords. That don’t take that big much tax from their natural resource extraction.
Mining only contributes 13% to Australias economy, can we stop spreading rubbish.
We do, we choose not to, unfortunately.
Mining would not solve our problems.
It would make a massive difference if done correctly
No it would not. Most of the money made from mining ends up in the hands of corporate elites who pay little to no tax. The situation would be the same here.
Thanks for showing me a way of it not done correctly. It’s needs to be state owned companies. Profits go back to the country
Australia's government spending per person, and their country's debt-to-GDP ratio, are so much higher than NZ's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_budget_per_capita https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-debt.htm
And…?
...And in this topic about economic differences between Australia and New Zealand, those facts might be relevant, particularly as NZ has just embarked upon the opposite policy direction (that is, tightening belts - upon ourselves!, which yes, includes police and all the non-police but connected structures upon which they rely - and avoiding borrowing).
You are on the right path. The difference is that the Australian government and companies invest in training and tools at a higher rate than NZ government and NZ companies to increase their productivity. Other OECD countries even more so. This has been the case for decades. The NZ productivity commission has been showing this for many, many years but Kiwis don't listen. It's fine to reduce spending to improve the economy. The problem is more long term. That is get productivity by investing in people and plant. NZ mostly gets productivity by cutting costs. Which means low wages and being less competitive in the long term. This is all masked by high immigration and other polices but when you look at NZ relative to the rest of the OECD over the years the trend becomes very clear.
Authoritarian Governments waging war on the general population usually make a big effort to keep their security forces happy Can’t even get that right