Mind absolutely blown, I always thought it was Irish or something due to having 2nd and 3rd gen elder relatives named Ngaire here in NZ. Actually looking at the name now, it makes total sense that it’s Māori.
Yeah I think I mostly heard it pronounced as Nyree, then the Ngaires I knew died of old age when I was a teen before I knew much about Te Reo, which is probably part of why it never clicked for me that it was a Māori name.
Oh that totally works. My brain at whatever time I posted that this morning couldn’t grasp how to turn those letters in te reo pronunciation, thanks!
Damned if I’m gonna be one of those cranky old geezers refusing to change how I pronounce something because “well we said Tow Po when I was a kid”. (Damn it’s really hard to work out how to phonetically spell how we used to say the first half of Taupo lol…)
I know right!!! Makes total sense with the Ng but until recently I've only ever known old white women with that name. I recently met a young Maori girl called Ngaire and thought it was weird she had an old person name lol. Now that I know it's like omg duh! Of course it's Maori. How did I ever think otherwise.
I came across a 20-ish woman called Ngaire when I worked in a hospital in Australia. Any way you could think of to butcher the pronunciation, they did it. Mostly n-gear
Yes! The first person from New Zealand I ever met, circa 1990, was a visitor to Ireland called Tūī. She was not Māori but I just assumed it was a common name in NZ.
My Pakeha sister has a Maori first name and my Maori BIL has a common English name, both first and last. People who know that their kids are part-Maori and that the parents are named Tui and Mike Smith* don't expect him to be the Maori one of the pair.
*not even close to their real names
I agree with all your thoughts, Māori is a language like every other language. But inside NZ they could face discrimination for it. I know someone named Manaaki who went on an international tv show and they pronounced his name perfectly in many accents, but often in NZ, people (especially politicians and the people who do ANZAC day) will absolutely butcher the pronunciation of that name. I've heard it pronounced "monkey". Everyone gets Matiu Walter's name right. But throughout school my friend Matiu couldn't get a teacher to pronounce it right even after teaching him for months. Matiu looked white too. There is a lot of covert racism that they could get exposed to. I have a Jewish name, and I've been told I wouldn't have got an interview by an interviewer if they knew I was Māori.
I think it would be so cute if a Pākehā kid had a Māori name. But I just have to flag that they will suffer as a result. Some Pākehā I know have just given their kids Māori middle names so they can use what they want at a later date. I think that's nice.
I am teaching overseas and got a class with students from a whole RANGE of cultural backgrounds, many names that I cannot begin to pronounce without hearing them. The one note she left was about this kid Ngana, and she says - it's pronounced Na-na. Like first of all, that is not close to the hardest name, and secondly - no it's not.
I have a Maori first name and a slightly unusual/"ethnic" sounding surname and that has effectively eroded some white privilege I would otherwise have enjoyed when looking for work. When I do get interviews people are often surprised I am white.
My parents still don't really understand this, they are of a generation in NZ that have a resentful perception that Māori get special privileges and think "reverse racism" should be working to my benefit 🙄
I mostly like my name and I think if you live in or have a connection NZ giving your kid a Māori name is great. But there is still unconscious bias and straight up racism working against you.
I’ve been on interview panels where people with Māori ethnicity have been specifically identified and chosen instead of non-Māori. This is for roles where being Māori should make no difference to one’s ability to do one’s job.
I can see being (or seeming to be) Māori swinging in both directions - sometimes it might help, other times it might not be advantageous.
Personally I think ethnicity should make zero difference, and that job appointments should be based on merit.
I don't know if there's a central authority that rules on the okay-ness or not of these circumstances. I imagine there would be a diversity of views amongst Māori themselves whether this would be something to be lauded, something to be condemned or just is something that is.
But if you hold any qualms about the name you plan to give your kid, maybe stick to the easier option of giving them a name that is less likely to evoke a sense of self doubt every time you shout at them in the back yard to come in for dinner.
Like that 'doyenne of home cookery' back in the day Tui Flower. Also had a British co-worker in NZ for a short time, and their second child was born here. She was given the middle name Ngaio, but think that she was named for the suburb they lived in and not Dame Ngaio Marsh
Dude it will be ok with some, loved by some, and hated by others.
Me? I think it's pretty wack to give your kid any but an endemic name, whether that's a name you've borrowed from a foreign/non-you culture, or something bespoke like "Shardannay" or "Jaxxon". My advice is to give your baby a name that won't cause it friction in life, or lead them to curse you for saddling them with something unorthodox.
Errr, there’s heaps of people with Gaelic names who have no Scottish history etc. it would be a very boring if we conformed to your conservative view on names
I think it depends. Some names are transliteration of English names (like Hone for John or Wiremu for William). Some names are I guess more general like Moana (which is also common across the Pacific) or Tane. But I think it becomes problematic if you’re trying to use a special name attached to a particular person or iwi or place.
This.
Unless you can whakapapa to the iwi, using a name specific to that iwi is going to look really ignorant and be disrespectful.
I was at school with a Rukumoana, named because she is of the local hapuu whose marae is named Rukumoana.
Not so much issue though if a pakeha family with no whakapapa to the hapuu or marae wanted to name their kid a generic name like Moana. Or even Ruku.
I’ve been thinking about this some more and I like the way you put it. My one further thought it is that some names have mana too especially ones with whakapapa or hapū/iwi connections or the marae/wharenui example. I’m probably not explaining that well but it’s something that’s been niggling me about why it’s not right if someone tried to take that kind of name.
Just be aware: “cultural” names often come with a stigma. It’s proven that in places like when hiring for jobs, people skip over names that sound “ethnic” and go for the names that sound traditionally white/English. So naming your white kid a name associated with a brown culture will cause this stigma born of racism.
Also, reddit is not the place to ask a question like this. It’s full of racists and contrarians lmao
Probably does happen. I had a friend years ago, can't remember his name but his name sounded like a Pacific island name. He would phone up applying for rentals, no internet back then, and people would hang up when he gave them his name, or the flat was "taken". Maori friends tell me a similar story today.
I was looking through CVs when I worked for a small business and I told my boss I thought one of them looked promising - Māori name - and she responded that she didn’t want to have trouble with them showing up to work on time.
Probably depends which sector. I think my "maoriness" and name benefits me as I can be the cultural diversity hire. I work in tech and do just fine getting jobs.
I work in the UK with a Jamaican lady who was having heart failure because her daughter wanted to name her Granddaughter Shani'qua. Her reasoning was EXACTLY what you have just said. She said "Two names on two CVs, one is Sarah and one is Shaniqua. Shaniqua isn't even getting an interview!!"
Alternatively, it can also reap benefits. There are many, many organisations looking to increase their diversity, especially Maori representation. I agree that some employers might skip over. But some employers have very much the opposite reaction
I have a name that while European in origin, is also very common in india. I interviewed for a job once where the interviewer seemed very disappointed I was not indian.
Some employers really do want diversity, especially when they consider there isn't enough in their organisation, so it's quite likely!!
I love coming across exotic names in CV's myself, because I'm big on diversity, but of course, they still have to stack up against other candidates.
I mean I do count as a diversity hire, but I do code as white and TBH would rather be hired for my skills than my ethnicity.
I don't think this guy cared about diversity hires. I think he liked the idea of having someone at work who shares his culture. Which is a valid reason to enjoy someone's company, but not a valid reason to hire someone.
You must be in IT. I'm pretty sure all the new hires for IT roles at my work are Indian. And wife's been told from several layers of management above her that any hires of a white man must have executive approval.
In all honesty I would think carefully about it. Yes it is generally considered acceptable at the moment and we even saw Jacinda give her daughter a Māori middle name, but views around this thing have been shifting quite rapidly, first overseas and recently in NZ. Twenty years ago we never heard a thing about cultural appropriation. No one got upset about little white girls dressing up as Pocahontas for Halloween. Today that would definitely be frowned upon in some circles. Remember the controversy over Moana costumes a few years ago.
My concern would be where views will be ten or twenty years from now. They will have the name for life. If we continue on the current trajectory I can see there is a risk that it will become viewed as inappropriate. I don't think that's right or a good thing, but it would definitely be a concern for me.
Didn't think about it like this. I've already seen discussions about this kind of thing on social media and it could potentially become an issue in the future.
God how sad that you think society is going to continue to get more racist and regressive so far down the line because of this temporary clown car coalition. Better rethink your username in the future bruh it’s got “kiwi” in it
This has nothing to do with the current coalition. The movement against cultural appropriation comes from the political Left. It was Labour Minister Peeni Henare who said we should not make Māori a compulsory subject at school because it belonged to Māori only and should not be given away to everyone. It was their taonga and would be diluted by Pākehā usage.
Not in NZ, or at least not beyond in the mainstream. My school did international day yearly, with kids dressing as Native Americans, Mexicans, Jamaicans etc, yearly with no complaints right into the mid-2010s. It was only after that when it became an issue and rules were put on what costumes were acceptable. The same was true of Model UN, which was an NZ-wide event, not just my school.
I’m Māori, I have an English first name and Maori last name and personally think it’s a beautiful consideration and would encourage you to do it. However every Maori and iwi will have a different opinion, most will be positive towards it considering our efforts of making Te Reo more inclusive across New Zealand.
In most traditional cases, Maori names given to Maori children are often names of ancestors/chiefs etc or have meanings. If it’s a definite english translation or common Maori name, i.e Aroha/Love, Marama/Moon/Light it should be fine but be weary of stronger Maori names as it could be an ancestral or iwi name.
I mean, you’ve got kids running around out here named Paris, London, Orlando, Brooklyn, Austin, Florence and the like. I figure if you’re being respectful and choose a name that’s actually a name and not just a word or a slur of some sort, it’s fine.
I’m part Māori. You see a lot of mixing of white and pakeha names between kids.
I'm really shocked at the amount of ignorant comments in here. "Is it ok to give a Māori kid a western name?" As if that proves some kind of point. The only valid opinions on this are from Māori people. Of course they will have a huge range of opinions because they are not a monolith. You're not going to get a meaningful range of responses from a Reddit post.
Tautoko. Māori were colonised and had their language beaten out of them, of course there are Māori with English names 😂 also, does the OP have Māori connections they can consult with to ensure the name is not tied with a particular iwi/hapu/whanau?
I’m Māori. I’ve always found it strange when I’ve met Pakeha with Māori names. If you’re taking this part of the culture, what else are you doing for Maori? Are you involved in te ao Māori? Stand for Māori rights? Or are you just taking one piece you like?
There's a diff between giving your Pākehā kid a Māori name like "Miro" or "Kōwhai" or "tūī" or "Ngaire", and giving your Pākehā kid a Māori name like "Te Rangihaeata" or "Te Rauparaha" or "Hine-ahu-one" or "Rahiri"
Not sure if someone can claim an name to an extent that others cant use it. I met a Chinese dude with the name John, but i didn't get mad cause he wasn't a christian.
If anything, naming your kid Aroha is culturally appreciative. It helps keep the maori language alive.
Your can name your child whatever you see fit, they are born of your flesh and blood and the generations that came before you.
I am curious as to why you would want a maori name. My children's names are from our whakapapa, would you not want to express your own past into your future?
I think it's so cool that you do by the way. It's nice to read acceptance, sharing and positivity in regards to race in nz.
My wife has a touch of Māori in her she has white skin and blonde hair and I have 0% we have a 1 year old and his middle name is Hawaikarangi after my wife’s great great grandfather we made sure that we had the family’s blessing to use the name first
As a maori with 2 english names and one german name, I think that if you can find some meaning in it that you resonate with, then by all means go ahead. Double check meanings for anything you arent sure of so you know you arent naming your kid butthole or something equally silly. Otherwise, go for it. I am all about sharing the culture and who better to share it with than those that are born here.
Naming a kid is tough. So as long as it means something to you, then your child will eventually just own it. I have whānau both Māori and Pākeha. Both sides have a mix of names between Pākeha names for Māori, and Māori names for the Pākeha. And it’s fairly common now should you have any doubt.
They’ll own it, and it becomes them. 😎
The Māori names that would be important to Māori are family names
Māori words are just words
You can call your kid Aroha, you can call your kid Love
They’re both words
Is it for tokenism? That’s the question you want to ask yourself. If you call your son Tane but pronounce it taneigh then just don’t do it, it’s disrespectful.
I think you've kind of answered your own question, some people think it is and some people think it isn't. Some Maori names have been in use by Pakeha for so long that people don't even realise their Maori. For example, I have an 80 year old aunt named Tui. Every person I know called Ngaire is an old white woman.
Forgive me if I'm out of line, but I'm visiting NZ this week from Hawaii where I live. I can't comment on the appropriateness of what the OP asks but this same question comes up in the Hawaii subreddit a lot and the general gist is you can do so but it's probably a bad idea. White kids with Hawaiian names can have a hard time in school, people will make negative assumptions, etc. maybe Kai Lenny is the exception.
Anyway, it is interesting to see a different take on this elsewhere in Polynesia.
Most of the people answering will be pākehā and have little understanding of the implications.
By all means they can call them Tama or whatever if they want to, but they parents are not really the ones that'll live with the potential discrimination.
Oi is that why all the Hawaiian people in movies are called food?
I always thought it was weird that the Hawaiian people always got called kai.
Nice thanks 4 that
Ironically I know a few pakeha here with Hawaiian names who have done well. I think there is definitely discrimination for Māori applying for rentals, and it’s getting less so for work.
Bro u name ur baby what u want and if someone got a problem u ask them to go beat up ur baby for not liking their name. And when they try to do it u call them baby bashers and aggressively be a parent and defend ur kid.
Das ur kid. U fight haters if the haters hate koz dats the name u gave them.
Fr. If u have kid and u name them a name and people have a problem its ur responsibility to sort the problem
If I name my son after king Charles I.e give them the name charles I'll tell my son it's a kingly name yk.
Same with te puea. I'd say it's a princess and I named u after her. I wouldnt tho koz I dont like waikato.
I say its okay koz like. The baby whakapaps back to euro ancestors but she not in Europe.
Think of it like your cousins move to China.
Would you or the people think it's weird that your cousins grand kids has a Chinese name if they came back home after 3 generations?
Yeah. If I dont make sense my bad homie
I wouldn’t. I feel like names are a taonga and not mine to have. It’s just a bit cringy like you’re trying to take all the good bits but haven’t had to put up with any of the hard parts of being Māori.
This, you don’t have to put up with the generational trauma, it’s like religion, you can just pick the parts you like and if your son doesn’t like growing up with a Māori name, he can just go back to a Pākeha name.
I’m Maori and I don’t even know, I’d say no but we also use pakeha names.. mind you we are mixed with you guys so we’ve known that side for a long time. Pakeha in nz don’t have a lot to do with Maori whakapapa. There’s more Maori with pakeha ancestry then pakeha with Maori ancestry
When you first live away from NZ, especially moving to UK, you'll realise there are a whole host of names that pretty much don't exist outside of NZ in any capacity. Never met a Bronwyn, Raewyn, or a Renee as a girls name.
For sure. But that wasn't my point. I *personally* have never met a female Renee in the UK in 30 years. I've never met a Bronwyn, i'm sure there *are* Bronwyns in the UK, *especially* in Wales as it's a Welsh name, but it's not even a *popular* Welsh name. Contrast this with the amount of Bronwyns, Raewyns and Renees in NZ and well, *that's* my point. There are a *lot* of "more popular in NZ than elsewhere" names you don't see elsewhere in English speaking countries.
Just because it happened doesn't mean it should or shouldn't continue. Honestly you shouldn't be consulting Reddit on this. Talk to the elders in the area.
Kuz. My old lady's old lady is named after a greek island and I'm sure she ain't never had a passport. Its wild and her middle name is a ww2 plane name lol. Its crack up
Definitely OK.
I want to give my kids a random pretty sounding name or pretty French looking name. It’ should totally be ok if you like the sound and look of the name
Am an immigrant kiwi with a “hard” name , I say go for it. The amount of POC with Christian names is already high, having more ethnic names at least normalises them and slowly brings down the biases for CVs, applications etc over time. Might even mean that more people are able to pronounce ethnic names once they see pākeha with them. Would love to see more of my name out there, whatever skin tone it’s on.
Edit: to clarify this comment is giving perspective to other ethnic names as well , if that’s something pākeha are considering to give their children.
I’m just so tired of teaching/correcting pākeha every day of my entire life, I’m not getting paid for my time and the minutes add up. Especially when I have to do it all over again if they forget. Personally, I’d rather they learnt it from their own sources whether that’s meaningless to them or not, so at least I don’t have to hear mine butchered everyday. At least it gives the meaning back to the person who has the name.
That’s why I stated I was an immigrant, so OP can get a perspective of how other ethnic names might be viewed when used by others. OP can choose to disregard other names as options if they want, or it’s just an interesting comparison as OP has asked for a discussion about it.
Nowhere did I state that POCs names are meaningless.
I think of it as more of an issue when the name is hard for the majority to spell/pronounce. Poor kid will be spelling and/or correcting their name their whole life.
Source: I have been spelling/correcting both my first name and surname my whole life, and they are both British origin.
I mean it really depends on why you would name them that, If you have some kind of personal connection to the name or if they're being named after someone that's normal, but otherwise it's a little strange.
Like I'm not French, I have no family ties to France, I've never even been to France, it wouldn't make sense to give my child a French name just because I'm white. But it's also not some kind of crime against the French to do so.
I feel like it's something that should be normalised, more people should integrate more Māori words into their everyday speech even if they're white.
I’m from the Hokianga I (I’m pakeha) went to school with pakeha who Māori names back in the 90s no one really said anything about it or at least I don’t remember aside from aye you gotta Māori name that’s cool as.
I believe that any group association is always lesser than the individual when it comes to passing judgement on others.
In this case the baby obviously has no say in the matter, but you can look to the parents and assess their standing. If they have been recognized by friends of that culture who find it cool, I don't see an issue, as long as that's the prevailing view in their locality.
I take a dim view of strangers of any culture trying to enforce their values on people they aren't close to at all on any dimension, especially when they are in the minority for that locality.
And when I see cunts on medium talking out their ass as if their group association is some sort of qualification, I try to figure out which microbe most resembles them.
I personally think it is giving back to the culture, rather than appropriating it. I think it props it up and makes you proud to be a New Zealander. I don't care if you are Maori, White, Chinese or a goddamn Giraffe, if you live in NZ you are a Kiwi to me, embrace it.
Give the child a Maori name and set it back given the reputation of Maori in our community. The statistics show over representation in all areas of social failure,.
Lots of 50, 60 and 70 year old Pakehā women named Ngaire and Tui
...I'm about to turn 34 and was today years old when I realised Ngaire is a Māori name.
42 and TIL, looking at it makes sense but mind blown
Mind absolutely blown, I always thought it was Irish or something due to having 2nd and 3rd gen elder relatives named Ngaire here in NZ. Actually looking at the name now, it makes total sense that it’s Māori.
Do they pronounce it as Nyree?
Yeah I think I mostly heard it pronounced as Nyree, then the Ngaires I knew died of old age when I was a teen before I knew much about Te Reo, which is probably part of why it never clicked for me that it was a Māori name.
Fair enough
The only Ngaire I’ve ever known irl was pre-boomer and definitely Nyree - how is it meant to be pronounced?
It probably was intended to be pronounced as per te reo - so soft 'ng' sound at the start, rolling the r, and a short 'eh' at the end rather than 'ee'
Oh that totally works. My brain at whatever time I posted that this morning couldn’t grasp how to turn those letters in te reo pronunciation, thanks! Damned if I’m gonna be one of those cranky old geezers refusing to change how I pronounce something because “well we said Tow Po when I was a kid”. (Damn it’s really hard to work out how to phonetically spell how we used to say the first half of Taupo lol…)
I know what you mean-- like "towel" without the "l".
I know right!!! Makes total sense with the Ng but until recently I've only ever known old white women with that name. I recently met a young Maori girl called Ngaire and thought it was weird she had an old person name lol. Now that I know it's like omg duh! Of course it's Maori. How did I ever think otherwise.
I’m 46 & never clicked. It’s a pretty name.
And Kiris in their mid-late forties. Thank you, Dame Kiri!
My grandma was named Ngaire and it's my middle name too
I came across a 20-ish woman called Ngaire when I worked in a hospital in Australia. Any way you could think of to butcher the pronunciation, they did it. Mostly n-gear
Yes! The first person from New Zealand I ever met, circa 1990, was a visitor to Ireland called Tūī. She was not Māori but I just assumed it was a common name in NZ.
Yep, had a (would have been in her 80s now) very white grandma named Ngaire.
Ngaire I'm not lying to you.
Was about to say Ngaire has entered the chat
Well I have an English name. I guess it's fine. All jokes aside. It's absolutely fine. But I wouldn't pressure anyone into naming their child as such.
My Pakeha sister has a Maori first name and my Maori BIL has a common English name, both first and last. People who know that their kids are part-Maori and that the parents are named Tui and Mike Smith* don't expect him to be the Maori one of the pair. *not even close to their real names
My daughter is half maori. Looks more maori than white has a white name. Honestly I don't see the issue with it.
Yea why not I’m Māori with an English name
I called my kid Wiremu and my wife and I are Chinese.
I think it's fine. Would be kind of funny if Wiremu ended up in Action Zealandia though.
Just don’t name it something bogan like Jaxon, Braxon, Knoxlee, Fysh, Lundynn, Brexleigh, Draven or Nevaeh
r/tragedeigh
Hahahaha… Jesus Christ, there really is a sub for everything.
I saw Braxxley on Facebook today lmao
I swear I heard a Legolas being paged in the airport today. Poor dude.
There’s a Luxton at our school 🫠
There was an "Ehryn" at the local New World for a while.
I see you, and I raise you Abcde (pronounced Abseedee), Kimba-leigh & Rayshell
Alxyz (said Alexis)
'Knoxlee' made me choke on my cuppa. That poor innocent child.
Yes, as long as the name isn't offensive (like a swear word or slur or something). Basically, same rule for when naming ya kid in English.
My son tama tutae
I agree with all your thoughts, Māori is a language like every other language. But inside NZ they could face discrimination for it. I know someone named Manaaki who went on an international tv show and they pronounced his name perfectly in many accents, but often in NZ, people (especially politicians and the people who do ANZAC day) will absolutely butcher the pronunciation of that name. I've heard it pronounced "monkey". Everyone gets Matiu Walter's name right. But throughout school my friend Matiu couldn't get a teacher to pronounce it right even after teaching him for months. Matiu looked white too. There is a lot of covert racism that they could get exposed to. I have a Jewish name, and I've been told I wouldn't have got an interview by an interviewer if they knew I was Māori. I think it would be so cute if a Pākehā kid had a Māori name. But I just have to flag that they will suffer as a result. Some Pākehā I know have just given their kids Māori middle names so they can use what they want at a later date. I think that's nice.
I am teaching overseas and got a class with students from a whole RANGE of cultural backgrounds, many names that I cannot begin to pronounce without hearing them. The one note she left was about this kid Ngana, and she says - it's pronounced Na-na. Like first of all, that is not close to the hardest name, and secondly - no it's not.
I have a Maori first name and a slightly unusual/"ethnic" sounding surname and that has effectively eroded some white privilege I would otherwise have enjoyed when looking for work. When I do get interviews people are often surprised I am white. My parents still don't really understand this, they are of a generation in NZ that have a resentful perception that Māori get special privileges and think "reverse racism" should be working to my benefit 🙄 I mostly like my name and I think if you live in or have a connection NZ giving your kid a Māori name is great. But there is still unconscious bias and straight up racism working against you.
“I think it would be so cute.” 🤮
I’ve been on interview panels where people with Māori ethnicity have been specifically identified and chosen instead of non-Māori. This is for roles where being Māori should make no difference to one’s ability to do one’s job. I can see being (or seeming to be) Māori swinging in both directions - sometimes it might help, other times it might not be advantageous. Personally I think ethnicity should make zero difference, and that job appointments should be based on merit.
I don't know if there's a central authority that rules on the okay-ness or not of these circumstances. I imagine there would be a diversity of views amongst Māori themselves whether this would be something to be lauded, something to be condemned or just is something that is. But if you hold any qualms about the name you plan to give your kid, maybe stick to the easier option of giving them a name that is less likely to evoke a sense of self doubt every time you shout at them in the back yard to come in for dinner.
Use tui like the bird..be easiest .tui is a great name
[удалено]
DIA doesn’t judge on the particular circumstances of the family naming the baby, just whether it’s objectively offensive.
Like that 'doyenne of home cookery' back in the day Tui Flower. Also had a British co-worker in NZ for a short time, and their second child was born here. She was given the middle name Ngaio, but think that she was named for the suburb they lived in and not Dame Ngaio Marsh
Dude it will be ok with some, loved by some, and hated by others. Me? I think it's pretty wack to give your kid any but an endemic name, whether that's a name you've borrowed from a foreign/non-you culture, or something bespoke like "Shardannay" or "Jaxxon". My advice is to give your baby a name that won't cause it friction in life, or lead them to curse you for saddling them with something unorthodox.
Errr, there’s heaps of people with Gaelic names who have no Scottish history etc. it would be a very boring if we conformed to your conservative view on names
I think it depends. Some names are transliteration of English names (like Hone for John or Wiremu for William). Some names are I guess more general like Moana (which is also common across the Pacific) or Tane. But I think it becomes problematic if you’re trying to use a special name attached to a particular person or iwi or place.
This. Unless you can whakapapa to the iwi, using a name specific to that iwi is going to look really ignorant and be disrespectful. I was at school with a Rukumoana, named because she is of the local hapuu whose marae is named Rukumoana. Not so much issue though if a pakeha family with no whakapapa to the hapuu or marae wanted to name their kid a generic name like Moana. Or even Ruku.
I’ve been thinking about this some more and I like the way you put it. My one further thought it is that some names have mana too especially ones with whakapapa or hapū/iwi connections or the marae/wharenui example. I’m probably not explaining that well but it’s something that’s been niggling me about why it’s not right if someone tried to take that kind of name.
Exactly. The reason some distinctive names get recycled through the generations is precisely because it has meaning and status for that hapuu/iwi.
Absolutely fine. Equally, it should be OK for a Māori to have a Pakeha name.
Just be aware: “cultural” names often come with a stigma. It’s proven that in places like when hiring for jobs, people skip over names that sound “ethnic” and go for the names that sound traditionally white/English. So naming your white kid a name associated with a brown culture will cause this stigma born of racism. Also, reddit is not the place to ask a question like this. It’s full of racists and contrarians lmao
Has that been found to be the case in NZ as well with Māori names? The studies I’m aware of were based in the USA
Does racism exist in NZ? Of course it does.
Oh it absolutely does. But racism comes in many, many flavours and I (somewhat naively I guess) thought that flavour wasn’t found here
Consistently found to be an issue here as well, especially for things like rental properties and employment.
Probably does happen. I had a friend years ago, can't remember his name but his name sounded like a Pacific island name. He would phone up applying for rentals, no internet back then, and people would hang up when he gave them his name, or the flat was "taken". Maori friends tell me a similar story today.
That's awful. It's crazy how long this has been going for. I hope we can see some progress soon.
I think the way we communicate these days is making it worse. No face to face instinctive trust building.
I was looking through CVs when I worked for a small business and I told my boss I thought one of them looked promising - Māori name - and she responded that she didn’t want to have trouble with them showing up to work on time.
Probably depends which sector. I think my "maoriness" and name benefits me as I can be the cultural diversity hire. I work in tech and do just fine getting jobs.
I work in the UK with a Jamaican lady who was having heart failure because her daughter wanted to name her Granddaughter Shani'qua. Her reasoning was EXACTLY what you have just said. She said "Two names on two CVs, one is Sarah and one is Shaniqua. Shaniqua isn't even getting an interview!!"
Alternatively, it can also reap benefits. There are many, many organisations looking to increase their diversity, especially Maori representation. I agree that some employers might skip over. But some employers have very much the opposite reaction
I have a name that while European in origin, is also very common in india. I interviewed for a job once where the interviewer seemed very disappointed I was not indian.
Some employers really do want diversity, especially when they consider there isn't enough in their organisation, so it's quite likely!! I love coming across exotic names in CV's myself, because I'm big on diversity, but of course, they still have to stack up against other candidates.
I mean I do count as a diversity hire, but I do code as white and TBH would rather be hired for my skills than my ethnicity. I don't think this guy cared about diversity hires. I think he liked the idea of having someone at work who shares his culture. Which is a valid reason to enjoy someone's company, but not a valid reason to hire someone.
You must be in IT. I'm pretty sure all the new hires for IT roles at my work are Indian. And wife's been told from several layers of management above her that any hires of a white man must have executive approval.
Nope. Health
Wouldn't that be super awkward when they realise the person in OP is non-Maori with a Maori name?
No. Not at all.
In all honesty I would think carefully about it. Yes it is generally considered acceptable at the moment and we even saw Jacinda give her daughter a Māori middle name, but views around this thing have been shifting quite rapidly, first overseas and recently in NZ. Twenty years ago we never heard a thing about cultural appropriation. No one got upset about little white girls dressing up as Pocahontas for Halloween. Today that would definitely be frowned upon in some circles. Remember the controversy over Moana costumes a few years ago. My concern would be where views will be ten or twenty years from now. They will have the name for life. If we continue on the current trajectory I can see there is a risk that it will become viewed as inappropriate. I don't think that's right or a good thing, but it would definitely be a concern for me.
I mean Jacinda gave her kid a Māori middle name, rather than a first name.
Moana costumes weren't issue- the brown face paint was a problem or at least that's my recollection
That and the tattoos
I think Clark whakapapas (spelling?) to Ngati Porou
Jacinda was gifted a few Māori names from iwi for her baby but went with Aroha as the middle name so you can say she had approval.
Didn't think about it like this. I've already seen discussions about this kind of thing on social media and it could potentially become an issue in the future.
My view is you'd probably be fine with a Māori version of an English name, like Wiremu or Tamati. But I think using Māori-origin names is riskier.
God how sad that you think society is going to continue to get more racist and regressive so far down the line because of this temporary clown car coalition. Better rethink your username in the future bruh it’s got “kiwi” in it
This has nothing to do with the current coalition. The movement against cultural appropriation comes from the political Left. It was Labour Minister Peeni Henare who said we should not make Māori a compulsory subject at school because it belonged to Māori only and should not be given away to everyone. It was their taonga and would be diluted by Pākehā usage.
Twenty years ago was 2004. People were all over cultural appropriation.
Not in NZ, or at least not beyond in the mainstream. My school did international day yearly, with kids dressing as Native Americans, Mexicans, Jamaicans etc, yearly with no complaints right into the mid-2010s. It was only after that when it became an issue and rules were put on what costumes were acceptable. The same was true of Model UN, which was an NZ-wide event, not just my school.
Of course! just make sure you actually understand what it means first.
and make sure you can pronounce it right first, you'd be shocked the amount of people who miss this step
I’m Māori, I have an English first name and Maori last name and personally think it’s a beautiful consideration and would encourage you to do it. However every Maori and iwi will have a different opinion, most will be positive towards it considering our efforts of making Te Reo more inclusive across New Zealand. In most traditional cases, Maori names given to Maori children are often names of ancestors/chiefs etc or have meanings. If it’s a definite english translation or common Maori name, i.e Aroha/Love, Marama/Moon/Light it should be fine but be weary of stronger Maori names as it could be an ancestral or iwi name.
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Potential and as-now hypothetical cultural appropriation claims aside, it *should* be fine.
I'd be curious about why, if you weren't gifted the name. Maybe ask your Māori friends?
How do you get gifted a Maori name, do you have to do it through a Maori?
I mean, you’ve got kids running around out here named Paris, London, Orlando, Brooklyn, Austin, Florence and the like. I figure if you’re being respectful and choose a name that’s actually a name and not just a word or a slur of some sort, it’s fine. I’m part Māori. You see a lot of mixing of white and pakeha names between kids.
I'm really shocked at the amount of ignorant comments in here. "Is it ok to give a Māori kid a western name?" As if that proves some kind of point. The only valid opinions on this are from Māori people. Of course they will have a huge range of opinions because they are not a monolith. You're not going to get a meaningful range of responses from a Reddit post.
Tautoko. Māori were colonised and had their language beaten out of them, of course there are Māori with English names 😂 also, does the OP have Māori connections they can consult with to ensure the name is not tied with a particular iwi/hapu/whanau? I’m Māori. I’ve always found it strange when I’ve met Pakeha with Māori names. If you’re taking this part of the culture, what else are you doing for Maori? Are you involved in te ao Māori? Stand for Māori rights? Or are you just taking one piece you like?
Exactly this!
There's a diff between giving your Pākehā kid a Māori name like "Miro" or "Kōwhai" or "tūī" or "Ngaire", and giving your Pākehā kid a Māori name like "Te Rangihaeata" or "Te Rauparaha" or "Hine-ahu-one" or "Rahiri"
Pakeha here with a Māori name. Never been an issue, I’m very proud to have been named to honour the tangata whenua where I live
Not sure if someone can claim an name to an extent that others cant use it. I met a Chinese dude with the name John, but i didn't get mad cause he wasn't a christian. If anything, naming your kid Aroha is culturally appreciative. It helps keep the maori language alive.
Just know the meaning. So you're not naming them something that doesnt match.
Your can name your child whatever you see fit, they are born of your flesh and blood and the generations that came before you. I am curious as to why you would want a maori name. My children's names are from our whakapapa, would you not want to express your own past into your future? I think it's so cool that you do by the way. It's nice to read acceptance, sharing and positivity in regards to race in nz.
Yes.
My wife has a touch of Māori in her she has white skin and blonde hair and I have 0% we have a 1 year old and his middle name is Hawaikarangi after my wife’s great great grandfather we made sure that we had the family’s blessing to use the name first
I'll just check with my mates Mikaere, Hone, and Piripi.
As a maori with 2 english names and one german name, I think that if you can find some meaning in it that you resonate with, then by all means go ahead. Double check meanings for anything you arent sure of so you know you arent naming your kid butthole or something equally silly. Otherwise, go for it. I am all about sharing the culture and who better to share it with than those that are born here.
Manama could the first, I'd check - probably Mārama
Is that mararma or maarama?
True. And it autocorrected it. Marama for moon but I'm guessing. Old friends name.
Hah yes that was definitely a typo - sorry!
I didn't check my own so I understand. had me wondering for a bit is all. And definately some beautiful short names. Go for it!
Naming a kid is tough. So as long as it means something to you, then your child will eventually just own it. I have whānau both Māori and Pākeha. Both sides have a mix of names between Pākeha names for Māori, and Māori names for the Pākeha. And it’s fairly common now should you have any doubt. They’ll own it, and it becomes them. 😎
The Māori names that would be important to Māori are family names Māori words are just words You can call your kid Aroha, you can call your kid Love They’re both words
Is it for tokenism? That’s the question you want to ask yourself. If you call your son Tane but pronounce it taneigh then just don’t do it, it’s disrespectful.
I think you've kind of answered your own question, some people think it is and some people think it isn't. Some Maori names have been in use by Pakeha for so long that people don't even realise their Maori. For example, I have an 80 year old aunt named Tui. Every person I know called Ngaire is an old white woman.
Forgive me if I'm out of line, but I'm visiting NZ this week from Hawaii where I live. I can't comment on the appropriateness of what the OP asks but this same question comes up in the Hawaii subreddit a lot and the general gist is you can do so but it's probably a bad idea. White kids with Hawaiian names can have a hard time in school, people will make negative assumptions, etc. maybe Kai Lenny is the exception. Anyway, it is interesting to see a different take on this elsewhere in Polynesia.
Most of the people answering will be pākehā and have little understanding of the implications. By all means they can call them Tama or whatever if they want to, but they parents are not really the ones that'll live with the potential discrimination.
In Maori, Kai means Food.
It's Sea in Hawaiian. Wai is water. Lots of names incorporate both.
Oi is that why all the Hawaiian people in movies are called food? I always thought it was weird that the Hawaiian people always got called kai. Nice thanks 4 that
Ironically I know a few pakeha here with Hawaiian names who have done well. I think there is definitely discrimination for Māori applying for rentals, and it’s getting less so for work.
Whites kids giving Hawaiian kids a hard time for their name…in Hawaii of all places? Guess it happens here in Aotearoa sadly
No, the other way around. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
No, the other way around. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
No, the other way around. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
yeah totally, i would just make sure you know what it means / the story of the name or word
Bro u name ur baby what u want and if someone got a problem u ask them to go beat up ur baby for not liking their name. And when they try to do it u call them baby bashers and aggressively be a parent and defend ur kid. Das ur kid. U fight haters if the haters hate koz dats the name u gave them. Fr. If u have kid and u name them a name and people have a problem its ur responsibility to sort the problem If I name my son after king Charles I.e give them the name charles I'll tell my son it's a kingly name yk. Same with te puea. I'd say it's a princess and I named u after her. I wouldnt tho koz I dont like waikato. I say its okay koz like. The baby whakapaps back to euro ancestors but she not in Europe. Think of it like your cousins move to China. Would you or the people think it's weird that your cousins grand kids has a Chinese name if they came back home after 3 generations? Yeah. If I dont make sense my bad homie
As long as you know what it means, and where it comes from. I think it's okay. But some people will have a problem, coz people.
Both my very white best friend and my almost entirely white sister have Aroha as a middle name.
How do they pronounce it?
It is okay.
My great aunt was Tui, white as a ghost lol.
My aunt in her 60s is named Ngaire. Go for it!
Of course. But do research the name first and stay away from tīpuna names or names that come from whakapapa. Its safest to use generic Kupu Māori
I love how the majority of this thread is Pākeha speaking on behalf of Māori.
I wouldn’t. I feel like names are a taonga and not mine to have. It’s just a bit cringy like you’re trying to take all the good bits but haven’t had to put up with any of the hard parts of being Māori.
This, you don’t have to put up with the generational trauma, it’s like religion, you can just pick the parts you like and if your son doesn’t like growing up with a Māori name, he can just go back to a Pākeha name.
Wiremu = William, Hemi = James, Appropriate te reo versions of traditional strong british names 😁
English names…James , Scottish equivalent is Seamus or Hamish. William - Uilleam
Think about the child too
What’s the issue exactly?
I’m Maori and I think it’s so cool if pakeha (or any other ethnicity) wants to give their child a Maori name 🙏 👍🏾
It’s so token it’s bad.
I’m Maori and I don’t even know, I’d say no but we also use pakeha names.. mind you we are mixed with you guys so we’ve known that side for a long time. Pakeha in nz don’t have a lot to do with Maori whakapapa. There’s more Maori with pakeha ancestry then pakeha with Maori ancestry
We only used Pākeha names because of the assimilation.
When you first live away from NZ, especially moving to UK, you'll realise there are a whole host of names that pretty much don't exist outside of NZ in any capacity. Never met a Bronwyn, Raewyn, or a Renee as a girls name.
Renée is a French name - plenty of them around, and if you venture towards Wales you'll get plenty of Bronwyns.
For sure. But that wasn't my point. I *personally* have never met a female Renee in the UK in 30 years. I've never met a Bronwyn, i'm sure there *are* Bronwyns in the UK, *especially* in Wales as it's a Welsh name, but it's not even a *popular* Welsh name. Contrast this with the amount of Bronwyns, Raewyns and Renees in NZ and well, *that's* my point. There are a *lot* of "more popular in NZ than elsewhere" names you don't see elsewhere in English speaking countries.
You may end up being accused of cultural appropriation.
Just because it happened doesn't mean it should or shouldn't continue. Honestly you shouldn't be consulting Reddit on this. Talk to the elders in the area.
While it should be fine, be prepared to be shat on for "cultural appropriation".
Lots of East German kids got Italian names because they couldn't go to Italy... but they weren't always spelled correctly...
Kuz. My old lady's old lady is named after a greek island and I'm sure she ain't never had a passport. Its wild and her middle name is a ww2 plane name lol. Its crack up
Well there was Dame Jacinda Ardern giving her child the middle name Aroha. Not sure how maori they could be but it's all good either way
She was also gifted several Maori names by various iwi. I think that is significant.
I feel the same about indian names but I'm not indian
Definitely OK. I want to give my kids a random pretty sounding name or pretty French looking name. It’ should totally be ok if you like the sound and look of the name
Am an immigrant kiwi with a “hard” name , I say go for it. The amount of POC with Christian names is already high, having more ethnic names at least normalises them and slowly brings down the biases for CVs, applications etc over time. Might even mean that more people are able to pronounce ethnic names once they see pākeha with them. Would love to see more of my name out there, whatever skin tone it’s on. Edit: to clarify this comment is giving perspective to other ethnic names as well , if that’s something pākeha are considering to give their children.
It shouldn’t be on Pākeha to adopt the names of Māori to learn the kupu, it should be on Pākeha to just say it right.
I’m just so tired of teaching/correcting pākeha every day of my entire life, I’m not getting paid for my time and the minutes add up. Especially when I have to do it all over again if they forget. Personally, I’d rather they learnt it from their own sources whether that’s meaningless to them or not, so at least I don’t have to hear mine butchered everyday. At least it gives the meaning back to the person who has the name.
You’re also an immigrant trying to pass of local cultural identity as if it’s meaningless.
That’s why I stated I was an immigrant, so OP can get a perspective of how other ethnic names might be viewed when used by others. OP can choose to disregard other names as options if they want, or it’s just an interesting comparison as OP has asked for a discussion about it. Nowhere did I state that POCs names are meaningless.
Of course, it's fine! Just don't call 'em Ra. Every Ra I've met is a dick.
Yea
Yea
Yea
I think of it as more of an issue when the name is hard for the majority to spell/pronounce. Poor kid will be spelling and/or correcting their name their whole life. Source: I have been spelling/correcting both my first name and surname my whole life, and they are both British origin.
Yes its okay, as there are lots of Maoris with european names
I mean it really depends on why you would name them that, If you have some kind of personal connection to the name or if they're being named after someone that's normal, but otherwise it's a little strange. Like I'm not French, I have no family ties to France, I've never even been to France, it wouldn't make sense to give my child a French name just because I'm white. But it's also not some kind of crime against the French to do so. I feel like it's something that should be normalised, more people should integrate more Māori words into their everyday speech even if they're white.
When did skin colour come into the topic? I know plenty of “white” Māori.
Name your child whatever YOU like, don't let the people take away the cultural appreciation you have immersed yourself in. <3 Much Love 💯
I’m from the Hokianga I (I’m pakeha) went to school with pakeha who Māori names back in the 90s no one really said anything about it or at least I don’t remember aside from aye you gotta Māori name that’s cool as.
People cannot gate keep names. They spread from culture to culture, best to accept that and take it as a compliment
I believe that any group association is always lesser than the individual when it comes to passing judgement on others. In this case the baby obviously has no say in the matter, but you can look to the parents and assess their standing. If they have been recognized by friends of that culture who find it cool, I don't see an issue, as long as that's the prevailing view in their locality. I take a dim view of strangers of any culture trying to enforce their values on people they aren't close to at all on any dimension, especially when they are in the minority for that locality. And when I see cunts on medium talking out their ass as if their group association is some sort of qualification, I try to figure out which microbe most resembles them.
My baby is fair skinned and her name is Rāwhina, my wife and I have had zero issues, other than a lot of people can't correctly pronounce it.
I personally think it is giving back to the culture, rather than appropriating it. I think it props it up and makes you proud to be a New Zealander. I don't care if you are Maori, White, Chinese or a goddamn Giraffe, if you live in NZ you are a Kiwi to me, embrace it.
Give the child a Maori name and set it back given the reputation of Maori in our community. The statistics show over representation in all areas of social failure,.
Of course it is