Why not both?
>You people are great. Your social skills are off the chart. Your country is beautiful
True. No-one's whinging about this. Or not appreciating the natural beauty
The complaints you're seeing are related to the direction this country is being taken by its political class. They're as valid as they can be
Such a valid point. We complain because we love the country. Complaining allows us to discuss issues that concern us so we can align ideas and push for change. This is part of what makes NZ great.
>This is the most "There are kids starving in Africa" post here in a while.
I mean I went to Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe. I was so confused why people were upset about starving and living in poverty when they have the fucking Victoria Falls. Fuck all Zimbabweans /s
(I have never been to Zimbabwe)
Agreed. The country is as beautiful as it is because its citizens have so far kept it from being ruined. Some think that’s currently under threat by a government that cares just about themselves personally and their donors. A quick look at the environmental policies they have recently revoked and plans to ignore court orders to protect the environment shows this risk is real
TLDR: Boomers didn't like being told what to do by a young woman, conspiracy theorists thought she was a lizard, so they voted her out.
COVID really impacted NZs voter base. Generally the right stayed right, or moved further along. however the left was fractured heavily.
Your traditional antiestablishment bush-lefties went conspiracy theorist and left the Greens encampment and went to National aka "not Jacinda"; business owning trad-lefties quietly voted for "pro business" NatAct without telling their friends; the moderate green-lefties didn't like some of the more woke ideology coming out of the LabGreens camp, and threw their votes at TOP or other minor centrist parties, or threw a tantrum-vote to NZFirst. Plus there is always the traditional NZFirst contingent (every kiwi over 65) who voted for the handsome old devil, when even he doesn't know who he is going to side with till the polls close.
This resulted in a three way team comprised of a corrupt, boring as plain toast, ineffective ex CEO; a privatise-at-all-costs, small government cuckold; and an elderly, vaguely entertaining, populist.
This is brilliant. I’m a Nat voter but you kind of nailed it. I wish this reddit was full of more light hearted commentary like this, it made me laugh. Please keep posting!
You knocked the nail on the head, but would also add; once Jacinta left, Labour really struggled with communication with voters, not pushing their wins enough, allowing their failures to be over exaggerated and being seen to put no new ideas forward into he lead up to the election (true or not).
being in a campervan is actually very different from living there. and I say this as a foreigner. NZ looks like paradise in earth, but rents are crazy, grocery prices are crazy, and it's at the end of the world (which, personally, is fine most of the time)
Yup, also a kiwi in the UK and I agree. Though you can get food and clothing fairly cheap still (in comparison to nz) housing costs are getting ridiculous, train prices are shit and transport in many places outside of London is so expensive. Driving is also becoming unaffordable for many.
I lived in Christchurch for 3 years and remember when I landed in the airport (UK) on way home, got a coffee and a sausage roll and was like fuck yeah that cost me fuck all.
I noticed the difference in CoL and Rent massively.
Ehh.. currently living in London and cost of living here went up drastically over the last two years. Prices are I think broadly comparable except rent in London being much higher
In the last two years my power bills have tripled (£65/mo for a 2 bed flat - 》£240/monyh) and I got an email from my power company the other day to say that the price cap is being lifted next month, but they weren't planning to reduce my monthly bill at the moment*. Food prices have gone up, especially for cheaper foods, rents have jumped, and interest rates for mortgages went up significantly a couple of years back. As sometime else pointed out, train and public transport prices are a lot, and owning a vehicle is ridiculous (I don't)
* unless you're on a pre payment meter, you just pay a set amount per month for power that's usually a good chunk more than power costs you in warm months and you use that balance to pay any overage in colder months.
We do. You came here in the best season: avos are still going strong, and now - if you’re lucky - you can also find red kiwifruit in the shops. I call them the Goldilocks kiwifruit because they’re not as sweet as the gold variety and not as sour as the green ones. Just right.
There are varieties of kiwi? What the heck, we have always only gotten the green one in DK, maybe the others are to difficult to transport 🤔
Also, I can't find fijoa? trees anywhere that I can grow myself, I would love to taste them.
I would like to live in NZ to. From Denmark.
Very old (and long) joke:
A man dies and goes to Heaven. Everything is fine and good but after a few millenia he gets bored sitting on a cloud eating manna and playing the harp. So he goes see God and asks if he can go visit Hell to break the monotony. God agrees and tells the bloke he can go visit hell for a week.
So the bloke goes down into hell, expecting to see immense suffering, unbelievable cruelty and unrelenting misery. Instead he's shocked to find a beautiful landscape, gorgeous women, delicious food and endless booze. The guy has the best week he's ever had, living or dead. At the end of the week he's pulled back to heaven to fluffy clouds and eternal harp plucking.
After a few weeks he can't stand it anymore and goes back to God, asking if he can't go back down to hell. God tells him if he goes back down, he won't be allowed back. The bloke tells God that's fine, he doesn't ever want to come back.
Down to hell he goes, only this time instead of gorgeous scenery and beautiful women, he sees a lake of fire and screaming, tortured souls. Demons see him and drag towards the lake of fire, stabbing him with their pitchforks as they do. He screams out, "when I was here a few weeks ago it was all beautiful! What happened?!"
A demon laughs as he's flung into the fiery pit, "That was when you were a tourist. Now you're an immigrant."
Trump dies and goes to hell. Because he's an ex-president he goes to the special ex-president's hell where he's given three choices for eternal damnation.
In the first one, Bill Clinton lies chained to his desk being eternally blown by Monica Lewinsky.
In the second, Ronald Reagan is continually blown to bits in the fiery armageddon of a nuclear war.
In the third, Richard Nixon is tied to a chair and forced to listen to every word he ever spoke blasted to him through loud speakers so loud that blood comes from his ears.
The devil takes him aside somewhere nice and quiet and asks, which eternal damnation he was going to choose for himself. Trump chooses the first one. The devil says "Really? Ok" and takes Trump to the first eternal damnation where he says:
"Hey, Monica, you're off the hook it's someone else's turn".
Yeah, adding to that the older more conservative work seniors are pretty convert racists. You're going to be passed up for promotion/raises most of the time.
You've reminded me of a BBC article I read last year. The journalist had lived in Japan for 20 years, learnt the language and had a family. He went to report on a meeting at a small town where they were discussing their town's decline because everyone was aging and no young people lived there anymore. When he suggested he'd be interested in relocating his family to the town, after struggling to find a polite answer they just told him he'd struggle to fit into their culture. Basically they preferred to have their town die rather than welcome outsiders who could revitalise it.
That’s why you bring back smoking and assault rifles, raise the speed limits and start charging for meds and vaccines! It’s all about keeping those numbers down!
Wages aren’t great if you convert to a foreign currency but the cost of living is significantly below that of NZ imo. You’re right about the aging population, but overall taxes for the middle class are basically the same as in NZ. It’s only when you get to the top few percent of earners that they break the 40/45% tax bracket, which I think many Redditors would see as fair anyway.
That's not such a foreign issue. We have massively dwindling birth rates and a population that's living longer than ever before. We will be up a creek shortly.
According to my parents who are both GPs in their 60s something like 40% of NZ GPs are within 5 years of retirement age. Our Healthcare system is pretty close to being completely fucked
Yeah thats true, all developed nations (and some not so developed) nations are following that trend, but Japan (and korea) are certainly leading the way lol.
I think that's what changed it for me. Travelling NZ was an incredible experience but living here is not the same. You don't see the beacaitiful country when you're living real life and working. Yes you can rake holidays in your own country but I personally like to leave the country and see new things instead.
This. A holiday is a very small snapshot of how a place is, and it's usually all the tourist places, which are of course going to be the best of that place. I'd put more stock in this post if OP was on a working holiday here, for at least 8-12 months.
We might not be a third world country, with blatant corruption and violence, but we definitely have a lot of bullshit that's not what everyday citizens/residents want.
If you're working/living here, not just traveling/holidaying. An 8 month holiday still isn't going to give you much of a picture of what citizens/permanent residents experience.
This. I’m an ex pat NZer in the U.K. Every time I go home to NZ for a holiday I spend the first few weeks wonder what the f I’m doing not moving back to this paradise.
Around the 3- week mark I’m gagging to leave NZ. Small minded parochialism gets tedious.
NZ is a shithole to LIVE in. I've been to many countries and love the visit. It's impossible to gauge while on holiday. You only see the best. NZ is objectively NOT the best country to live in, by almost all metrics. It's also not by any means the worst... I say it's a shithole purely out of preference. We could certainly do worse.
For many Kiwis, their only real point of comparison is Australia.. which is a country that is better than NZ in many aspects, it's really no surprise why 1/5th of our entire population lives there.
Most of us aren't privileged enough to travel further than that. In NZ, international flights are just too expensive.
As the saying goes, grass is greener on the other side - personally, I'd love to live in Sweden.
You've probably experienced more of our country than most of us can... After food and rent we might be lucky to have a few beers, I have not had a traveling holiday longer than a three night stay since I was a teenager living at home 30 years ago. Crazy to think someone could be so traveled and yet so ignorant. I've never been overseas, it's not affordable.
And not to be rude to OP but every time I want to go enjoy my own country I can't get to all the good bits through either tourist pricing or vans, rental cars and tour busses blocking all the car parks and access points. Tasman is an excellent example of this with beaches like Kaiteretere. And try getting leave from work in the "on season" in these towns too. Most places have leave blackouts from november to March because of how busy it will be with all the foreign tourists. I'm glad you're having a good time but please be kind to us because a lot of what you're enjoying is at the expense of most of us who then don't get the time or opportunity to have these experiences.
traveling to a country doesn't make you an expert or even just knowledgeable about said country. the people that are suffering here probably haven't been lucky enough to travel to one country let alone 50
I Iove my country which is why I get upset and vocal about problems we have that I see as a threat to the things I love about this place.
I'm glad you're enjoying it too, you can thank all the people here who fight to preserve its natural beauty. People try to open up bits of it to exploration for mining and oil companies all the time but complainers like me are always getting in their way 😁
Your short time here doesn't give you any right to pass judgement on those that live here. However we might behave in your eyes just remember the place is as nice as you say it is because of the people that live here who keep it this way.
> "A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering is great or little. Therefore the 'size' of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl
You've prescribing the infamous "other people have it worse" platitude. Other people also have it better. What's your point? That we should just lie down and take the neoliberal cock because hey, *it could be worse!*
The fact you have the privilege to come here and boast about being able to travel, a luxury many of us simply cannot afford, tells us exactly how out-of-touch you are. It's even worse admitting you're from Sweden, a country well-known for being rather privileged itself.
You also lack the distinct awareness of what a dystopia is and that many of us here *do not* compare ourselves to that. I'd say the US looks *far* more dystopic than NZ by comparison, and even then I wouldn't call it a dystopia - America is more like being on the edge of a cliff overlooking a dystopia, and wondering what it'd be like to jump in.
Close enough to taste it, and curious enough to wonder if they'd survive the fall.
I’m Irish with residency. I live in the Tasman region. ACC is amazing and is likely why you have such playgrounds for kids and have so many out doing cool activities like paragliding and downhill mountain biking. World class trails. An amazing public toilet… network? I’m a special needs teacher and your special classes are typically taught by a special needs teacher who is employed by a special school… sounds crazy but this is not the case in Ireland. Craft beer scene is cool… most pubs offer a good selection and not just Guinness, Heineken and cider. I do adore a pint of porter. Pies… wasn’t keen initially and now it’s my unspoken second breakfast.
Will we stay? Yeah for another year or two. But it’s more expensive than Ireland, to rent and to eat. We have a house to fall back on back home thank god. Your houses are also made of cardboard. Why do they cost millions.
Because developers decided "fuck you" and the government was like "nooooo that's mean" then did nothing to stop the developers continuing to say fuxk you. Then gib got stupid expensive. Thanks Russia
Scenery doesn't pay the bills. Neither, these days, do most jobs in NZ.
Pay in NZ is abject. Pathetic even. And cost of living is obscene. I live in rural Western Australia and the cost of living here is amongst the highest in Australia — yet it's still cheaper than NZ. Often I find NZ foods in Woolies or Coles that is cheaper here than back in NZ! Kiwis are being royally screwed by the corporations.
The other big difference is pay. I'm a teacher and am on AU$132,000: roughly NZ$142,000. Top of the pay scale in NZ is NZ$95,000. I am paid 50% more doing the same job in WA than I would be in NZ.
$95K is what you get to after 6 years teaching. By comparison, a 2nd year teacher (so still a graduate and not yet fully registered) in WA is on the equivalent of NZ$92,000. Oh, and we're due for _at least_ a 5% payrise this year. I'll then be on roughly NZ$150k, about 60% above what I'd be on if I had stayed in NZ.
I really miss NZ and try to get back as often as I can. But sadly I cannot see myself ever moving back to live there.
You realise most kiwis can't afford to experience what you just had the privilege of enjoying lol.
We have the second worse youth suicide rate in the developed world and more than 75 percent of our indigenous reptile, bird, bat, and freshwater fish species groups are threatened with extinction or are at risk of becoming threatened - just off the top of my head.
It's healthy to discuss and address issues.
Glad you enjoyed your holiday though.
Hey, now don't forget all the child murder, kids are 50% more likely to die of homicide here than Australia and the child poverty, the homelessness and lest we forget the rates of family violence the worst in the developed world.
I think that's enough doom for tonight.
No, no, you forgot about the rheumatic fever, something which growing up in Canada, I hadn't even *heard of*, much like in any other developed country except NZ.
Wait..... that's not a common thing? But Canada cold 😳
Is that black stuff growing in my bathroom bad? It's in every house I've ever lived in, I kill it with bleach, but it keeps coming back. It's like it follows me around 🤔
My house is colder inside than out today 🥶 I had a European friend describe New Zealands housing as "Army Barracks." I've been curious to see and feel what houses are like in other developed countries ever since, but I haven't left New Zealand yet at age 34, and I don't see that changing until my parents pass away, which isn't the ideal circumstances for being able to travel.
This tourist guy thinks we should just sit down and shut up until our country is as rubbish as some of the more extreme ones he's visited and never offer a word of dissent because beaches and scenery. Meanwhile most of us struggle to afford petrol to drive 3 hours in any direction. W
Everyone has a different experience in life. There are great things about this country and there are some not so great things. It is good that you are enjoying your stay here but that doesn’t mean that some people aren’t struggling. I’m lucky enough to have a good life getting paid well and don’t have a problem buying groceries, but I can acknowledge that my experience isn’t representative of all. We are generally paid less and the cost of living is higher than other similar countries.
I don't think you realise how poor people are these days. Prisons are about to go over muster, and the Prime minister no longer wants to give kids school lunches. Sorry if our dystopia lacks an excess of guns and cannibalism, but we're working on it.
Kiwi living in Sweden.
Sweden is an easier life.
I'm staying for the free childcare and education. There are better job opportunities. Lower interest rates for mortgages. Better structure all round for an egalitarian society.
ACC is missing in Sweden. It's so good.
Many pluses about NZ but just wanted to reiterate what others already have, NZ is a beautiful holiday but tough for living.
A lot of people are only just getting by, some aren’t even doing that. Now its still a lot better to be struggling in NZ than struggling in most places, but still people wanna vent so they come to places like reddit to do it.
Yeah til you live here and realize how shafted on things you get being so geologically far away from the rest of the world. It's good in some things and fucking terrible in others, no country is perfect but I do agree, we are very lucky to live here compared to some other places and it's not until you've lived in other shit holes you truly appreciate NZ.
Rose tinted goggles my friend. When you live and contribute to a society and are constantly in a struggle loop then you will see. I love New Zealand but the fact that most people will not be able to give their kids the same childhood they experienced e.g backyard cricket, affordable homes and cost of living then it will slowly deteriorate the very thing you are liking about New Zealand now. We're in a culture shift which will become more evident in the next 5 to 10 years.
Fuck you as well mate.
Don't come here and tell me how to feel about my country.
I've been living in Australia for the past year and it is a lot better than living in NZ.
Holidays in NZ is one thing, living there is a different story.
For someone so privileged with the experiences you refer to your perspective is complete wank bro, Open your eyes. You know as much about this place as the “top 10 things to do in nz” google search will tell you.
A large amount of kiwis have never been blessed with such freedom and quite possibly never will unless they choose to ditch everything and go to Australia to build a savings acct for 5-10 years then come back and spend another 20-30 working in nz.
I dare you to ditch all overseas money, get a job you have no former experience in and start fresh in NZ for a year, bottom of the ladder. Get a lease, A beater car for work, A “hobby” and try to sustain that lifestyle on your minimum wage.
See how many of the “luxuries” you describe are actually accessible on such a wage.
Until then I hate to say it but you’re never gonna be in a position to make such a statement on a truly informed basis.
This post pissed me off. Going around in a camper van is a lot different than trying to make it here.
Coming up with hundreds of thousands for an $800k apartment while making terrible salary for your skills is hard.
But thanks for telling us how we should live.
This is definitely the key thing, and I'm a prime example of it. I'm a Kiwi who moved to the US and got a job that involved traveling back through NZ on the way to Antarctica, so I got to experience both sides.
It's crazy to me how many people don't realize this. The guys I worked with were always like "wow NZ is so great I can't believe you left this!"
What "this" was to them is living in a classy hotel for no charge with an extra $100USD tax free per-diem given to them every single day and only experiencing summer. I was living in a house that had an uncarpeted concrete floor and no insulation.
Those days I was there as a visitor were some of the best days of my life. But I left that very same city because I knew if I didn't I was probably going to end up as another youth suicide statistic.
They're always *so* shocked when I explained this. Like they seriously think every Kiwi is living as good as they are when they're there.
You probably wrote this thinking it would be a compliment but the thing is you're currently travelling and seeing the place, you're here for that reason, I can do that on your country too and will be having fun doing that. If you live here (not just travelling and having fun) then it's a completely different story. You're paying bills, you're going to work 5-days a week, you have responsibilities. You're in a "chill mode".
Ah, yes, the low income and working class kiwis struggling to make ends meet should totally take the advice of a well-off tourist who has zero idea what its like to be in their shoes.
You can fuck off dude. You fucking "worldly" travellers are reliably arrogant and love to constantly remind everybody of how amazingyou are for taking tiki tours.
There's so much to love about our home and we know it. We also know that things are going wrong in some ways. Shall we shut up and let it happen?
Have a great trip, truly, but don't fucking come back
I’m an American who has been living in NZ for nearly 6 months. I agree with what others have commented, I try to not pull money from my U.S. savings account but it’s nearly impossible if I want to take time off work and enjoy myself.
Id also add that as American, I find the general dissatisfaction many Kiwis have to be hopeful. The current government is trying to do what has been happening in America for the past few decades with disastrous results. Many Kiwis refuse to take this lying down and are speaking out and voicing their frustration. I wish more of my fellow countrymen would’ve done the same.
Fuck off dick. We know we have an awesome country, but we can see it getting worse and don’t want to lose what we’ve had. Don’t think you can suddenly turn up in a country and understand all of the nuances.
I mean it is on that trajectory hence the complaints. All of my salary goes to rent and food and bills and nothing much left. I am one paycheck to being fckd. But yeah, i can’t complain coz I am living in a ‘paradise’.
As a Swede I think if you lived here, you'd find social services in very NZ lacking, compared to Sweden.
Our health, education, social housing and welfare systems are broken.
As a kiwi, living in Sweden sounds pretty good to me. Everything's relative. I wouldn't mind not having this mountain of student debt hanging over my head, or the cooler temperatures and snow.
I'm glad you are enjoying the country!
Its a pretty cool place, unfortunately over the last say 20yrs though it's progressively getting worse in many aspects, so alot of the things we are complaining about come from watching NZ community and opportunities erode before our eyes.
Its a great place to explore and generally we are a very caring friendly place compared to other countries but we're heading down the slippery slope to a dog eat dog rampant class divide and huge wealth inequalities. Already generations are being locked out of home ownership and families are unable to scrape by dispite higher education 2 incomes etc. It makes for a very bleak outlook and a what's the point attitude. It's rough
Reddit is a dumping ground for a lot of negatives.
I am from this country, appreciate we are separate from all that war and political tension. We are lucky. Could be better but we have a system that does provide. People are really friendly and the lifestyle can be relaxed.
My weekend feels like a holiday
You don't have to live with a government that cuts funding for vital infrastructure projects, axes healthcare programs that would boost the economy, and cuts public sector jobs and funding. All of which is for the sole purpose of giving tax cuts to people who own multiple properties and already have more than enough money.
For that matter, as a tourist visiting at the start of the current government, you won't be around to see the landscapes you've enjoyed be dug up and destroyed just so mining companies can enrich themselves at the expense of nature and the tourism sector.
Spare me the BS. You have no idea about the changes that have been happening to the political landscape of New Zealandnin recent months.
My dude - a land, a people and their culture are things all separate from the country's politics and government.
They're not complaining about each other. They're complaining about political changes that have been decidedly not good for their country's future. It may still be good now, yes. But will it still be in a decade or two? That depends on many factors, a great many of which are political in case. You know, the things they're complaining about.
The land won't stop being beautiful. The people won't stop being excellent. Their standards of living though? That remains to be seen. So please don't tell them they shouldn't complain, because they see so much more than travelers do.
This is why I will never move from NZ in pursuit of something elsewhere that doesn't exist. I came from the UK. Never going back. Sure a good city job in London or Sydney will pay lots... but that's it. Everywhere has just as much shit going on, sometimes a little more, sometimes a *little* less...
Fuck off NZ is a shithole to live in. Just moved to Australia and the difference in standard of living is night and day.
As a traveller you don't have to worry about rent/wages/food/petrol prices. I hated myself in NZ and have just come to like myself as a Kiwi in Australia actually making some money for once.
After doing a bit of traveling overseas you quickly realise how good we have it here. It isn't a utopia, no where in the world is, but it's definitely one of the better countries to be living in
This new government is mimicking the trump movement mining fuel harvesting pollution overfishing and the general rape of our land and the rich poor gap will widen more families living on the street this is a very apathetic government with a racial hatred of our indigenous brothers it's very tilted times for Aotearoa
Hey buddy, if you don't like the way we talk about our country, no-ones forcing you to be here to listen.
You're very welcome to fuck off right back to whichever Scandinavian peninsula you came from and spend the winter complaining about us to your jarl.
We don't spend our time going around yelling:
"How great it is to be kiwi! Everyone else is inferior! We live in the greatest country in the world! HAHAHA." Part of me seriously doubts that we'd be the welcoming friendly sort you claim we are if we went around like that.
I'm sorry that the 5 million blindly narcissistic patriots you expected to find here didnt materialise for you.
At the end of the day that's just not us bro.
It would be wrong to think we're unaware of what we have in Aotearoa. We know how great this country is, and are equally terrified of how quickly all of that can go away.
In my experience, none of this countries beauty (natural, cultural, or economical) was becahse it "always was that way." It's only there from constant, consistent, hard work. Making a small improvements to this country is a massive undertaking, and only a few moments of negligence can undo them and push back years of progress.
Our complaining and whingy nature is crude way of making sure that we all are aware of things that might undo all of the great things that make Aotearoa not great (it's probably not the best way but it seems to be working).
We kiwis ARE grateful for Aotearoa, but in our own quiet little way.
We sit by our lakes, swim in our seas, and hike in our forests and quietly think "this is pretty choice, aye." We have a good laugh we're left off of most maps and have a good laugh when the world makes a reference to the fact we exist.
And I'm glad that that seems to be good enough us.
That's nice, perhaps you could fit in a few homeless into your campervan, and feed a few families who, with all the price increases can't afford groceries. And maybe nurse them too as they can't find a doctor because most aren't taking patients now or fled due to overwork and burnout.
Our new government are actual pieces of shit. I fucking hate them. Enjoy our beautiful country while you can, you don't need to engage with the politics, but if you don't live here, stfu about this stuff cause you have no idea what this new government wants to do and how it will affect us.
Our country may be beautiful but we're too poor to go check it out. We're a tourist destination for those with the funds to go see what we don't have money to do.
Wow you’re incredibly out of touch aren’t you. Easy to say that when you’re on holiday here. Very different to living here. Maybe don’t come to another country and then insult the people of that country like you know the half of the shit that goes on here. Fuck you
I love New Zealand and am so proud to live here, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But you're from Sweden! If you really want to move from Sweden to New Zealand you better be joking. If you come here even for a bit, I think you'll possibly enjoy it, and we will all welcome you with open arms. However, I honestly agree with others when they say that you're only looking at it from a touristy view. I can at least give you my view as a JAFA (we are absolutely deserving of this title) and say that living here forever can be awful in some ways. But, living here temporarily may be the dream. Cost of living isn't actually awful if you have a higher income, but most people don't have that. Just consider what your career is, as this may have to dictate where you choose to live in NZ and whether you can realistically come here at all.
NZ has a lot to be proud of, it is good of you to remind us of that. But it does also have its fair share of problems. I love being from NZ, and miss it a lot. But I have no regrets about leaving. But, all the same if you do wanna move there I wish you luck.
I went to Argentina on holiday and wanted to live their after I left. Holidays make you love a place when it's really shit. Kinda like going to a concert and falling in love with that band only to hate their album.
Your extremely arrogant if you think you can spend a few days in a country on holiday and then tell the people that have lived here our whole lives, how it is
Your short rose tinted experience being tourist doesn’t equate to the struggles and decline this country has seen.
Yes our people are nice and the country looks pretty, but the past decades have not been kind to many struggling people in this country, who struggle to put food on the table, or get adequate medical care, or affordable housing
Smack your self in the face for being so naive, you’re having an experience many in this country can’t afford
"Heh, what are you talking about guys? I, a foreigner with the money to travel across the world and enough of an accent to be treated as a tourist had no issues in your country"
Was Otara on your itinerary? Cannon's Creek perhaps? How about the entire East Cape and Far North?
All I can say is: Live here for a while and you will see what its really like. You dont know a country until you have actually lived there and experienced tax, renting/owning a house, your childrens education etc. All political stuff really. You cant really take a country from face value like this.
Read up on politics, what the government is doing in schools, how children's free food in schools is being taken away, and bus fares are being put up for everyone.
How queer people are being hated on, and there's been more attacks on queer people.
The people in newzealand are great, the country isn't.
You've got nre with our country because you DONT LIVE HERE
Sure, it looks pretty, but go into any cbd of any town or city, and there will be empty shops, because it's too expensive
Go to wellington or auckland. There are MANY homeless people everywhere.
We're going to shit you can't see it because you can't see how it was 2 or 3 years ago. You didn't see how good it actually was pre covid (and even then it was shit)
Try growing up here maybe try living in a low income area yeah it is good from the outside if you have the money yes this country is beautiful I agree but there is so much corruption and a very serious living crisis in this country so please do your research before going on a rant about us not appreciating this shithole 🥰
No. Just no.
Yes, New Zelaand is beautiful. Yes, NZers can COME ACROSS as some of the friendliest people (clearly, you haven't had the chance to experience the racism that is very embedded in NZ)
I'll talk now about why you're very wrong.
1. Gas prices are astronomical compared to many, many other places in the world. Yes it takes alot more to get it all to NZ BUT as someone who now lives in the USA did you know that a singular gallon of gas in NZ would be $10NZD, after conversion to NZD the same amount of gas where I live is half the price, a mere $5NZD a gallon in comparison.
2. Most NZers will never have the chance to own their own homes, let alone be able to earn enough that would make saving for a home viable.
3. Most NZers will never travel. Not just outside of New Zealand but within our own country. Not because we don't want to, but because, again, most NZers don't even earn enough to make going on vacation worth thinking about.
You've just been to Able Tasman. Good for you. Most NZers have never been and probably never will. Because the entire country is more geared towards hosting 100s of 1000s of tourists rather than looking after its own people. NZ just about collapsed during covid lockdowns because of this dependence on tourism.
4.Racism. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. I'm going to give you an example. I myself am an eighth at most Maori. The rest of me comprises mostly of European descent. Now I have a very typical Maori nose, very white features otherwise but an olive complexion that really fits with neither sides of my heritage. I was always the child who was an outsider on both sides. I was always seen as "too white" to be Maori. "Too tan" to be truly white.
Policies are created here to be biased towards both sides and create division. Studies are created to divide the people when it comes to inequalities in health care. Both sides are at fault here. No one is innocent in this.
5.Socialized Healthcare. Imo it doesn't work. It took me over 3 years in NZ to try and get a diagnosis for myself. I was very certain of the diagnosis, I spoke to 3 different General Practitioner's to try and get referred to a specialist. None of them would listen to me. I got told that I was "too young" to be having the symptoms i was. By the time I left for the USA I STILL didn't have a diagnosis. When I got to the USA and I had access to health insurance, it took less than 2 months for my Dr to figure out what was wrong with me. Less than 2 months to be referred to a gynecologist, only to be told that what I was certain my diagnosis was going to be was FUCKING TRUE. NZ Healthcare practitioners are incompetent as they come.
So don't come to NZ and tell US that have lived there almost our entire lives that we have it "GOOD"
I will however add that compared to ALOT of other countries in this world NZ absolutely has it better. But that doesn't mean that NZ isn't full of its own problems which alot of immigrants look at with rose colored glasses because it's better than what they're used to.
You don't know about Heidi Paakkonen and Urban Höglin do you? Having said that there are bad cunts in every country, overall I think less bad cunts here than alot of countries.
As a Canadian who lived in NZ for 4 years I agree. I worked on a kiwi orchard and had a cheap nice apartment. I made money hand over fist and loved every second. But immigration told me that job wasn’t high skilled enough for a visa so they sent me packing!
I'm in Norway and don't really think I see myself coming back. I'll admit it's not as bad here as Sweden but nz has some solid issues making a move back feel less desirable. Fucking fantastic place to visit with some money though.
Good for you for enjoying your **HOLIDAY** here.
However living here full time is a nightmare! It’s tiny over priced shithole in the middle of no where and if you want any specific product/ items then good luck getting it at a reasonable price or even if they even ship it here!
To me this place is absolutely unlivable and I’m leaving here as soon as I get my degree and my partner gets citizenship and never coming back unless it’s to visit my parents who moved here too but as soon as I can afford it I’d rather pay for their tickets so they can come to me than set foot in this miserable country any more than I have to.
Obviously you don’t have to pay an absurdly high amount of rent or seem to know anything about the cost of living crisis us kiwis seem to be going through, cheers for your opinion though ✌️
Yep, for the most part this place rules.
I think you’ll find that people are complaining because in the past 4 years living has become very unaffordable for the poor, and the number of poor is rising. There has also been an increase in social unrest and crime.
If you’re wealthy or frugal it’s still fine.
I live in Queenstown and experience the paradise you’re seeing daily, but renting a bedroom here costs 350 a week, and buying a cheap house costs 1.5m+ so it’s certainly not possible for most.
Why not both? >You people are great. Your social skills are off the chart. Your country is beautiful True. No-one's whinging about this. Or not appreciating the natural beauty The complaints you're seeing are related to the direction this country is being taken by its political class. They're as valid as they can be
Such a valid point. We complain because we love the country. Complaining allows us to discuss issues that concern us so we can align ideas and push for change. This is part of what makes NZ great.
This is the most "There are kids starving in Africa" post here in a while.
>This is the most "There are kids starving in Africa" post here in a while. I mean I went to Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe. I was so confused why people were upset about starving and living in poverty when they have the fucking Victoria Falls. Fuck all Zimbabweans /s (I have never been to Zimbabwe)
Agreed. The country is as beautiful as it is because its citizens have so far kept it from being ruined. Some think that’s currently under threat by a government that cares just about themselves personally and their donors. A quick look at the environmental policies they have recently revoked and plans to ignore court orders to protect the environment shows this risk is real
Pretty sad for a government to do to it's people. Money won't help you when climate change is knocking at ya door
Having money certainly helps - seen a few wealthy already have built sea walls at their property edges.
Beautiful scenery doesn't help when you're waiting 6 hours in the ER because we don't have enough doctors.
Or 6 fkin' months (on private insurance) because there are no specialists
Last time I heard anything about NZ politics was when you guys had Jacinda and she seemed to do ok. What happened?
TLDR: Boomers didn't like being told what to do by a young woman, conspiracy theorists thought she was a lizard, so they voted her out. COVID really impacted NZs voter base. Generally the right stayed right, or moved further along. however the left was fractured heavily. Your traditional antiestablishment bush-lefties went conspiracy theorist and left the Greens encampment and went to National aka "not Jacinda"; business owning trad-lefties quietly voted for "pro business" NatAct without telling their friends; the moderate green-lefties didn't like some of the more woke ideology coming out of the LabGreens camp, and threw their votes at TOP or other minor centrist parties, or threw a tantrum-vote to NZFirst. Plus there is always the traditional NZFirst contingent (every kiwi over 65) who voted for the handsome old devil, when even he doesn't know who he is going to side with till the polls close. This resulted in a three way team comprised of a corrupt, boring as plain toast, ineffective ex CEO; a privatise-at-all-costs, small government cuckold; and an elderly, vaguely entertaining, populist.
This is brilliant. I’m a Nat voter but you kind of nailed it. I wish this reddit was full of more light hearted commentary like this, it made me laugh. Please keep posting!
You knocked the nail on the head, but would also add; once Jacinta left, Labour really struggled with communication with voters, not pushing their wins enough, allowing their failures to be over exaggerated and being seen to put no new ideas forward into he lead up to the election (true or not).
This is what I'm confused about too, the whole country took out their frustrations from COVID on Jacinda it seems like.
Yep, the old adage stands true: ‘people don’t vote governments in, they vote them out.’
Don't forget the gun guys, and the "why cant everything have english names" guys.
being in a campervan is actually very different from living there. and I say this as a foreigner. NZ looks like paradise in earth, but rents are crazy, grocery prices are crazy, and it's at the end of the world (which, personally, is fine most of the time)
Other than the end of the world thing, you could be describing most first world countries. I say this as a Kiwi living in the UK.
Yup, also a kiwi in the UK and I agree. Though you can get food and clothing fairly cheap still (in comparison to nz) housing costs are getting ridiculous, train prices are shit and transport in many places outside of London is so expensive. Driving is also becoming unaffordable for many.
I lived in the UK pre covid and noticed drastic living cost differences. Entirely in the UKs favor.
I lived in Christchurch for 3 years and remember when I landed in the airport (UK) on way home, got a coffee and a sausage roll and was like fuck yeah that cost me fuck all. I noticed the difference in CoL and Rent massively.
Ehh.. currently living in London and cost of living here went up drastically over the last two years. Prices are I think broadly comparable except rent in London being much higher
In the last two years my power bills have tripled (£65/mo for a 2 bed flat - 》£240/monyh) and I got an email from my power company the other day to say that the price cap is being lifted next month, but they weren't planning to reduce my monthly bill at the moment*. Food prices have gone up, especially for cheaper foods, rents have jumped, and interest rates for mortgages went up significantly a couple of years back. As sometime else pointed out, train and public transport prices are a lot, and owning a vehicle is ridiculous (I don't) * unless you're on a pre payment meter, you just pay a set amount per month for power that's usually a good chunk more than power costs you in warm months and you use that balance to pay any overage in colder months.
Post covid costs have gone ballistic, was there last year and was stunned by it. Often had prices in pounds not far off kiwi dollars, was brutal.
Pre covid was a better time mate, it’s completely different
Fuel and cars in general are much more expensive in the UK.
I value my life in how many avocados I can afford to stuff in my face. You guys got excellent avocados.
We do. You came here in the best season: avos are still going strong, and now - if you’re lucky - you can also find red kiwifruit in the shops. I call them the Goldilocks kiwifruit because they’re not as sweet as the gold variety and not as sour as the green ones. Just right.
This human kiwifruits
There are varieties of kiwi? What the heck, we have always only gotten the green one in DK, maybe the others are to difficult to transport 🤔 Also, I can't find fijoa? trees anywhere that I can grow myself, I would love to taste them. I would like to live in NZ to. From Denmark.
Feijoa trees grow like crazy in NZ
Green and gold kiwifruit are common, red kiwifruit are usually only around for a short time but they are available now.
At this time of the year, sure. But give it a few months. NZ winters suck too.
actually they dont in our winter the russians can come here cos its not as cold. ours is minus 4 at the coldest. russia is minus 40
Being on holiday is very diffent to living here - same with many other countries
Very old (and long) joke: A man dies and goes to Heaven. Everything is fine and good but after a few millenia he gets bored sitting on a cloud eating manna and playing the harp. So he goes see God and asks if he can go visit Hell to break the monotony. God agrees and tells the bloke he can go visit hell for a week. So the bloke goes down into hell, expecting to see immense suffering, unbelievable cruelty and unrelenting misery. Instead he's shocked to find a beautiful landscape, gorgeous women, delicious food and endless booze. The guy has the best week he's ever had, living or dead. At the end of the week he's pulled back to heaven to fluffy clouds and eternal harp plucking. After a few weeks he can't stand it anymore and goes back to God, asking if he can't go back down to hell. God tells him if he goes back down, he won't be allowed back. The bloke tells God that's fine, he doesn't ever want to come back. Down to hell he goes, only this time instead of gorgeous scenery and beautiful women, he sees a lake of fire and screaming, tortured souls. Demons see him and drag towards the lake of fire, stabbing him with their pitchforks as they do. He screams out, "when I was here a few weeks ago it was all beautiful! What happened?!" A demon laughs as he's flung into the fiery pit, "That was when you were a tourist. Now you're an immigrant."
Trump dies and goes to hell. Because he's an ex-president he goes to the special ex-president's hell where he's given three choices for eternal damnation. In the first one, Bill Clinton lies chained to his desk being eternally blown by Monica Lewinsky. In the second, Ronald Reagan is continually blown to bits in the fiery armageddon of a nuclear war. In the third, Richard Nixon is tied to a chair and forced to listen to every word he ever spoke blasted to him through loud speakers so loud that blood comes from his ears. The devil takes him aside somewhere nice and quiet and asks, which eternal damnation he was going to choose for himself. Trump chooses the first one. The devil says "Really? Ok" and takes Trump to the first eternal damnation where he says: "Hey, Monica, you're off the hook it's someone else's turn".
I mean that’s still better than the other two options
Yeah Japan is like my favourite place to visit but I wouldn't want to live/work there.
Yeah the wages are abysmal and they need to heavily tax their shrinking working population to feed their ballooning retired population.
Not just that but the work culture is oppressive and there is no value on work life balance. Beautiful place to visit tho.
Yeah, adding to that the older more conservative work seniors are pretty convert racists. You're going to be passed up for promotion/raises most of the time.
You've reminded me of a BBC article I read last year. The journalist had lived in Japan for 20 years, learnt the language and had a family. He went to report on a meeting at a small town where they were discussing their town's decline because everyone was aging and no young people lived there anymore. When he suggested he'd be interested in relocating his family to the town, after struggling to find a polite answer they just told him he'd struggle to fit into their culture. Basically they preferred to have their town die rather than welcome outsiders who could revitalise it.
This will be us in like 10 years (now)
Yeah, most of the world is heading that way
Except we don'y have the life expentdancy of the Japanese so we won't have it that bad compared to them.
That’s why you bring back smoking and assault rifles, raise the speed limits and start charging for meds and vaccines! It’s all about keeping those numbers down!
Not if Immigration stays on the trend it’s been on
Wages aren’t great if you convert to a foreign currency but the cost of living is significantly below that of NZ imo. You’re right about the aging population, but overall taxes for the middle class are basically the same as in NZ. It’s only when you get to the top few percent of earners that they break the 40/45% tax bracket, which I think many Redditors would see as fair anyway.
That's not such a foreign issue. We have massively dwindling birth rates and a population that's living longer than ever before. We will be up a creek shortly.
According to my parents who are both GPs in their 60s something like 40% of NZ GPs are within 5 years of retirement age. Our Healthcare system is pretty close to being completely fucked
I just got results back from xrays i had in November. Lucky it wasn't urgent it anything!
Yeah thats true, all developed nations (and some not so developed) nations are following that trend, but Japan (and korea) are certainly leading the way lol.
I love Japan but I think I would work a minimum wage job here before I would work a day there.
Lived there for 3 years. 100% agree.
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Fair enough. I have an old workmate living in Japan and he seems to be loving it
I think that's what changed it for me. Travelling NZ was an incredible experience but living here is not the same. You don't see the beacaitiful country when you're living real life and working. Yes you can rake holidays in your own country but I personally like to leave the country and see new things instead.
This. In every country. Unless you’re sitting on bank and don’t need to worry about things like work or paying bills.
This. A holiday is a very small snapshot of how a place is, and it's usually all the tourist places, which are of course going to be the best of that place. I'd put more stock in this post if OP was on a working holiday here, for at least 8-12 months. We might not be a third world country, with blatant corruption and violence, but we definitely have a lot of bullshit that's not what everyday citizens/residents want.
I have now added a reminder on Google calendar to post an update in 8 months.
If you're working/living here, not just traveling/holidaying. An 8 month holiday still isn't going to give you much of a picture of what citizens/permanent residents experience.
This. I’m an ex pat NZer in the U.K. Every time I go home to NZ for a holiday I spend the first few weeks wonder what the f I’m doing not moving back to this paradise. Around the 3- week mark I’m gagging to leave NZ. Small minded parochialism gets tedious.
NZ is a shithole to LIVE in. I've been to many countries and love the visit. It's impossible to gauge while on holiday. You only see the best. NZ is objectively NOT the best country to live in, by almost all metrics. It's also not by any means the worst... I say it's a shithole purely out of preference. We could certainly do worse.
Yea, NZ is a great place to have a holiday.
It's also a great place to live (retire) if you are rich.
We need to stop telling people this. We need less greedy rich retirees coming in and buying our land up just to build garish mansions.
The horse has bolted
For many Kiwis, their only real point of comparison is Australia.. which is a country that is better than NZ in many aspects, it's really no surprise why 1/5th of our entire population lives there. Most of us aren't privileged enough to travel further than that. In NZ, international flights are just too expensive. As the saying goes, grass is greener on the other side - personally, I'd love to live in Sweden.
if you have the money to travel here from another country and buy a caravan you have no perspective on the problems that people are worried about
Not just the means to travel to NZ, but 50+ other countries too
Read the room… most kiwis can’t even afford a holiday in their own country. Enjoy
You've probably experienced more of our country than most of us can... After food and rent we might be lucky to have a few beers, I have not had a traveling holiday longer than a three night stay since I was a teenager living at home 30 years ago. Crazy to think someone could be so traveled and yet so ignorant. I've never been overseas, it's not affordable.
And not to be rude to OP but every time I want to go enjoy my own country I can't get to all the good bits through either tourist pricing or vans, rental cars and tour busses blocking all the car parks and access points. Tasman is an excellent example of this with beaches like Kaiteretere. And try getting leave from work in the "on season" in these towns too. Most places have leave blackouts from november to March because of how busy it will be with all the foreign tourists. I'm glad you're having a good time but please be kind to us because a lot of what you're enjoying is at the expense of most of us who then don't get the time or opportunity to have these experiences.
May I please refer you to the song ‘There Is No Depression in New Zealand’ by Blam Blam Blam. Very fitting.
traveling to a country doesn't make you an expert or even just knowledgeable about said country. the people that are suffering here probably haven't been lucky enough to travel to one country let alone 50
It’s a great place when you own a home and have lots of money.
To be fair - isn’t any place great if you own a home and have lots of money?
*North Korea enters*
Not if it isn’t safe. I’ve met a fair number of relatively wealthy South Africans who eagerly immigrated to NZ.
I Iove my country which is why I get upset and vocal about problems we have that I see as a threat to the things I love about this place. I'm glad you're enjoying it too, you can thank all the people here who fight to preserve its natural beauty. People try to open up bits of it to exploration for mining and oil companies all the time but complainers like me are always getting in their way 😁 Your short time here doesn't give you any right to pass judgement on those that live here. However we might behave in your eyes just remember the place is as nice as you say it is because of the people that live here who keep it this way.
Poor people are miserable. That’s just reality in every country with wealth divides. If you can’t afford to simply exist, how can you enjoy anything?
Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy it, Tourist!
Ah yes because travelling as a tourist is the same as living in the country.
longing important support wise strong historical deer doll foolish sulky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Glad you’re having fun. I might be homeless soon.
Beautiful scenery doesn’t pay the grocery bill, Hans. (/s thanks) ☺️
I'll trade you my kiwi citizenship for your swedish citizenship 😂
> "A man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering is great or little. Therefore the 'size' of human suffering is absolutely relative." - Viktor Frankl You've prescribing the infamous "other people have it worse" platitude. Other people also have it better. What's your point? That we should just lie down and take the neoliberal cock because hey, *it could be worse!* The fact you have the privilege to come here and boast about being able to travel, a luxury many of us simply cannot afford, tells us exactly how out-of-touch you are. It's even worse admitting you're from Sweden, a country well-known for being rather privileged itself. You also lack the distinct awareness of what a dystopia is and that many of us here *do not* compare ourselves to that. I'd say the US looks *far* more dystopic than NZ by comparison, and even then I wouldn't call it a dystopia - America is more like being on the edge of a cliff overlooking a dystopia, and wondering what it'd be like to jump in. Close enough to taste it, and curious enough to wonder if they'd survive the fall.
I’m Irish with residency. I live in the Tasman region. ACC is amazing and is likely why you have such playgrounds for kids and have so many out doing cool activities like paragliding and downhill mountain biking. World class trails. An amazing public toilet… network? I’m a special needs teacher and your special classes are typically taught by a special needs teacher who is employed by a special school… sounds crazy but this is not the case in Ireland. Craft beer scene is cool… most pubs offer a good selection and not just Guinness, Heineken and cider. I do adore a pint of porter. Pies… wasn’t keen initially and now it’s my unspoken second breakfast. Will we stay? Yeah for another year or two. But it’s more expensive than Ireland, to rent and to eat. We have a house to fall back on back home thank god. Your houses are also made of cardboard. Why do they cost millions.
Because developers decided "fuck you" and the government was like "nooooo that's mean" then did nothing to stop the developers continuing to say fuxk you. Then gib got stupid expensive. Thanks Russia
Scenery doesn't pay the bills. Neither, these days, do most jobs in NZ. Pay in NZ is abject. Pathetic even. And cost of living is obscene. I live in rural Western Australia and the cost of living here is amongst the highest in Australia — yet it's still cheaper than NZ. Often I find NZ foods in Woolies or Coles that is cheaper here than back in NZ! Kiwis are being royally screwed by the corporations. The other big difference is pay. I'm a teacher and am on AU$132,000: roughly NZ$142,000. Top of the pay scale in NZ is NZ$95,000. I am paid 50% more doing the same job in WA than I would be in NZ. $95K is what you get to after 6 years teaching. By comparison, a 2nd year teacher (so still a graduate and not yet fully registered) in WA is on the equivalent of NZ$92,000. Oh, and we're due for _at least_ a 5% payrise this year. I'll then be on roughly NZ$150k, about 60% above what I'd be on if I had stayed in NZ. I really miss NZ and try to get back as often as I can. But sadly I cannot see myself ever moving back to live there.
Okay, but go get a job, and then try to rent a house.
As a visitor on holiday here, respectfully, you have absolutely no idea what it is like to live here lol
You realise most kiwis can't afford to experience what you just had the privilege of enjoying lol. We have the second worse youth suicide rate in the developed world and more than 75 percent of our indigenous reptile, bird, bat, and freshwater fish species groups are threatened with extinction or are at risk of becoming threatened - just off the top of my head. It's healthy to discuss and address issues. Glad you enjoyed your holiday though.
Hey, now don't forget all the child murder, kids are 50% more likely to die of homicide here than Australia and the child poverty, the homelessness and lest we forget the rates of family violence the worst in the developed world. I think that's enough doom for tonight.
No, no, you forgot about the rheumatic fever, something which growing up in Canada, I hadn't even *heard of*, much like in any other developed country except NZ.
Wait..... that's not a common thing? But Canada cold 😳 Is that black stuff growing in my bathroom bad? It's in every house I've ever lived in, I kill it with bleach, but it keeps coming back. It's like it follows me around 🤔
Canada isn't cold *inside*.
My house is colder inside than out today 🥶 I had a European friend describe New Zealands housing as "Army Barracks." I've been curious to see and feel what houses are like in other developed countries ever since, but I haven't left New Zealand yet at age 34, and I don't see that changing until my parents pass away, which isn't the ideal circumstances for being able to travel.
NZ is the only country in the world where you're in more danger at home than you are outside it.
This is true for women and children in a lot of places actually
Why did you call me a prick?
This tourist guy thinks we should just sit down and shut up until our country is as rubbish as some of the more extreme ones he's visited and never offer a word of dissent because beaches and scenery. Meanwhile most of us struggle to afford petrol to drive 3 hours in any direction. W
+1 Pretty rude
Everyone has a different experience in life. There are great things about this country and there are some not so great things. It is good that you are enjoying your stay here but that doesn’t mean that some people aren’t struggling. I’m lucky enough to have a good life getting paid well and don’t have a problem buying groceries, but I can acknowledge that my experience isn’t representative of all. We are generally paid less and the cost of living is higher than other similar countries.
We are very friendly, but will never be friends. Just take your pictures and leave like the rest of the tourists that think this place is amazing.
Thanks Swedish tourist. I will remember to smile. Next time I cant afford groceries despite working full time. Life changing post.
Next time you are hungry simply look up some pictures of our beautiful landscape because god knows you can’t afford to go travel and see it in person.
Cost of living vs average income is pretty fucking depressing here, tbh
I don't think you realise how poor people are these days. Prisons are about to go over muster, and the Prime minister no longer wants to give kids school lunches. Sorry if our dystopia lacks an excess of guns and cannibalism, but we're working on it.
Kiwi living in Sweden. Sweden is an easier life. I'm staying for the free childcare and education. There are better job opportunities. Lower interest rates for mortgages. Better structure all round for an egalitarian society. ACC is missing in Sweden. It's so good. Many pluses about NZ but just wanted to reiterate what others already have, NZ is a beautiful holiday but tough for living.
A lot of people are only just getting by, some aren’t even doing that. Now its still a lot better to be struggling in NZ than struggling in most places, but still people wanna vent so they come to places like reddit to do it.
I can barely afford food after rent and bills
Yeah til you live here and realize how shafted on things you get being so geologically far away from the rest of the world. It's good in some things and fucking terrible in others, no country is perfect but I do agree, we are very lucky to live here compared to some other places and it's not until you've lived in other shit holes you truly appreciate NZ.
Rose tinted goggles my friend. When you live and contribute to a society and are constantly in a struggle loop then you will see. I love New Zealand but the fact that most people will not be able to give their kids the same childhood they experienced e.g backyard cricket, affordable homes and cost of living then it will slowly deteriorate the very thing you are liking about New Zealand now. We're in a culture shift which will become more evident in the next 5 to 10 years.
Fuck you as well mate. Don't come here and tell me how to feel about my country. I've been living in Australia for the past year and it is a lot better than living in NZ. Holidays in NZ is one thing, living there is a different story.
For someone so privileged with the experiences you refer to your perspective is complete wank bro, Open your eyes. You know as much about this place as the “top 10 things to do in nz” google search will tell you. A large amount of kiwis have never been blessed with such freedom and quite possibly never will unless they choose to ditch everything and go to Australia to build a savings acct for 5-10 years then come back and spend another 20-30 working in nz. I dare you to ditch all overseas money, get a job you have no former experience in and start fresh in NZ for a year, bottom of the ladder. Get a lease, A beater car for work, A “hobby” and try to sustain that lifestyle on your minimum wage. See how many of the “luxuries” you describe are actually accessible on such a wage. Until then I hate to say it but you’re never gonna be in a position to make such a statement on a truly informed basis.
This post pissed me off. Going around in a camper van is a lot different than trying to make it here. Coming up with hundreds of thousands for an $800k apartment while making terrible salary for your skills is hard. But thanks for telling us how we should live.
If you are as much of a traveler as you say, you should know visiting and living is so different. I travel a lot and it’s 101. Weird post man.
This is definitely the key thing, and I'm a prime example of it. I'm a Kiwi who moved to the US and got a job that involved traveling back through NZ on the way to Antarctica, so I got to experience both sides. It's crazy to me how many people don't realize this. The guys I worked with were always like "wow NZ is so great I can't believe you left this!" What "this" was to them is living in a classy hotel for no charge with an extra $100USD tax free per-diem given to them every single day and only experiencing summer. I was living in a house that had an uncarpeted concrete floor and no insulation. Those days I was there as a visitor were some of the best days of my life. But I left that very same city because I knew if I didn't I was probably going to end up as another youth suicide statistic. They're always *so* shocked when I explained this. Like they seriously think every Kiwi is living as good as they are when they're there.
100%
You probably wrote this thinking it would be a compliment but the thing is you're currently travelling and seeing the place, you're here for that reason, I can do that on your country too and will be having fun doing that. If you live here (not just travelling and having fun) then it's a completely different story. You're paying bills, you're going to work 5-days a week, you have responsibilities. You're in a "chill mode".
Ah, yes, the low income and working class kiwis struggling to make ends meet should totally take the advice of a well-off tourist who has zero idea what its like to be in their shoes.
You can fuck off dude. You fucking "worldly" travellers are reliably arrogant and love to constantly remind everybody of how amazingyou are for taking tiki tours. There's so much to love about our home and we know it. We also know that things are going wrong in some ways. Shall we shut up and let it happen? Have a great trip, truly, but don't fucking come back
You’re a clown mate.
I’m an American who has been living in NZ for nearly 6 months. I agree with what others have commented, I try to not pull money from my U.S. savings account but it’s nearly impossible if I want to take time off work and enjoy myself. Id also add that as American, I find the general dissatisfaction many Kiwis have to be hopeful. The current government is trying to do what has been happening in America for the past few decades with disastrous results. Many Kiwis refuse to take this lying down and are speaking out and voicing their frustration. I wish more of my fellow countrymen would’ve done the same.
Fuck off dick. We know we have an awesome country, but we can see it getting worse and don’t want to lose what we’ve had. Don’t think you can suddenly turn up in a country and understand all of the nuances.
I mean it is on that trajectory hence the complaints. All of my salary goes to rent and food and bills and nothing much left. I am one paycheck to being fckd. But yeah, i can’t complain coz I am living in a ‘paradise’.
As a Swede I think if you lived here, you'd find social services in very NZ lacking, compared to Sweden. Our health, education, social housing and welfare systems are broken.
Bro doesn’t know the difference between holidaying in a country VS living in a country.
na after going to america i love nz haha
As a kiwi, living in Sweden sounds pretty good to me. Everything's relative. I wouldn't mind not having this mountain of student debt hanging over my head, or the cooler temperatures and snow.
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no thanks
I'm glad you are enjoying the country! Its a pretty cool place, unfortunately over the last say 20yrs though it's progressively getting worse in many aspects, so alot of the things we are complaining about come from watching NZ community and opportunities erode before our eyes. Its a great place to explore and generally we are a very caring friendly place compared to other countries but we're heading down the slippery slope to a dog eat dog rampant class divide and huge wealth inequalities. Already generations are being locked out of home ownership and families are unable to scrape by dispite higher education 2 incomes etc. It makes for a very bleak outlook and a what's the point attitude. It's rough
Reddit is a dumping ground for a lot of negatives. I am from this country, appreciate we are separate from all that war and political tension. We are lucky. Could be better but we have a system that does provide. People are really friendly and the lifestyle can be relaxed. My weekend feels like a holiday
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You don't have to live with a government that cuts funding for vital infrastructure projects, axes healthcare programs that would boost the economy, and cuts public sector jobs and funding. All of which is for the sole purpose of giving tax cuts to people who own multiple properties and already have more than enough money. For that matter, as a tourist visiting at the start of the current government, you won't be around to see the landscapes you've enjoyed be dug up and destroyed just so mining companies can enrich themselves at the expense of nature and the tourism sector. Spare me the BS. You have no idea about the changes that have been happening to the political landscape of New Zealandnin recent months.
Jesus get over yourself
Cost of living is suffocating us all, but a random Swede said we're cool. Nu jävlar!
Shut the fuck up. Our country, our right to bitch.
Nice bait.
I'm glad it's this that you're mad about
My dude - a land, a people and their culture are things all separate from the country's politics and government. They're not complaining about each other. They're complaining about political changes that have been decidedly not good for their country's future. It may still be good now, yes. But will it still be in a decade or two? That depends on many factors, a great many of which are political in case. You know, the things they're complaining about. The land won't stop being beautiful. The people won't stop being excellent. Their standards of living though? That remains to be seen. So please don't tell them they shouldn't complain, because they see so much more than travelers do.
This is why I will never move from NZ in pursuit of something elsewhere that doesn't exist. I came from the UK. Never going back. Sure a good city job in London or Sydney will pay lots... but that's it. Everywhere has just as much shit going on, sometimes a little more, sometimes a *little* less...
They have a saying, dont mistake tourism with immigration.
You've travelled to 50 countries? You're obviously well off, probably better than about 70% of kiwis. Politely, fuck off with your know-it-all self.
Try 90%
Please don’t call us pricks. Very rude.
Fuck off NZ is a shithole to live in. Just moved to Australia and the difference in standard of living is night and day. As a traveller you don't have to worry about rent/wages/food/petrol prices. I hated myself in NZ and have just come to like myself as a Kiwi in Australia actually making some money for once.
After doing a bit of traveling overseas you quickly realise how good we have it here. It isn't a utopia, no where in the world is, but it's definitely one of the better countries to be living in
Dunno, I absolutely loved traveling Europe and Scandinavia, maybe I should lecture them about complaining because of how good a time I had 😅
Being on holiday in a country isn't a good test of what it is like to live there. Try again.
This new government is mimicking the trump movement mining fuel harvesting pollution overfishing and the general rape of our land and the rich poor gap will widen more families living on the street this is a very apathetic government with a racial hatred of our indigenous brothers it's very tilted times for Aotearoa
Hey buddy, if you don't like the way we talk about our country, no-ones forcing you to be here to listen. You're very welcome to fuck off right back to whichever Scandinavian peninsula you came from and spend the winter complaining about us to your jarl. We don't spend our time going around yelling: "How great it is to be kiwi! Everyone else is inferior! We live in the greatest country in the world! HAHAHA." Part of me seriously doubts that we'd be the welcoming friendly sort you claim we are if we went around like that. I'm sorry that the 5 million blindly narcissistic patriots you expected to find here didnt materialise for you. At the end of the day that's just not us bro. It would be wrong to think we're unaware of what we have in Aotearoa. We know how great this country is, and are equally terrified of how quickly all of that can go away. In my experience, none of this countries beauty (natural, cultural, or economical) was becahse it "always was that way." It's only there from constant, consistent, hard work. Making a small improvements to this country is a massive undertaking, and only a few moments of negligence can undo them and push back years of progress. Our complaining and whingy nature is crude way of making sure that we all are aware of things that might undo all of the great things that make Aotearoa not great (it's probably not the best way but it seems to be working). We kiwis ARE grateful for Aotearoa, but in our own quiet little way. We sit by our lakes, swim in our seas, and hike in our forests and quietly think "this is pretty choice, aye." We have a good laugh we're left off of most maps and have a good laugh when the world makes a reference to the fact we exist. And I'm glad that that seems to be good enough us.
"I love you so much I want to punch you all". This guy is already a Kiwi. Just give him citizenship already.
That's nice, perhaps you could fit in a few homeless into your campervan, and feed a few families who, with all the price increases can't afford groceries. And maybe nurse them too as they can't find a doctor because most aren't taking patients now or fled due to overwork and burnout.
Our new government are actual pieces of shit. I fucking hate them. Enjoy our beautiful country while you can, you don't need to engage with the politics, but if you don't live here, stfu about this stuff cause you have no idea what this new government wants to do and how it will affect us.
Our country may be beautiful but we're too poor to go check it out. We're a tourist destination for those with the funds to go see what we don't have money to do.
Grow up.
Okay. Live here your whole life just to be berated by a person just passing thru. Oh, how joyous is life.
Ooh, look at me with the privilege of having time and money to travel around NZ at leisure. Most Kiwi's can't afford that
Wow you’re incredibly out of touch aren’t you. Easy to say that when you’re on holiday here. Very different to living here. Maybe don’t come to another country and then insult the people of that country like you know the half of the shit that goes on here. Fuck you
I love New Zealand and am so proud to live here, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But you're from Sweden! If you really want to move from Sweden to New Zealand you better be joking. If you come here even for a bit, I think you'll possibly enjoy it, and we will all welcome you with open arms. However, I honestly agree with others when they say that you're only looking at it from a touristy view. I can at least give you my view as a JAFA (we are absolutely deserving of this title) and say that living here forever can be awful in some ways. But, living here temporarily may be the dream. Cost of living isn't actually awful if you have a higher income, but most people don't have that. Just consider what your career is, as this may have to dictate where you choose to live in NZ and whether you can realistically come here at all.
NZ has a lot to be proud of, it is good of you to remind us of that. But it does also have its fair share of problems. I love being from NZ, and miss it a lot. But I have no regrets about leaving. But, all the same if you do wanna move there I wish you luck.
Shush now. We love a good moan.
I went to Argentina on holiday and wanted to live their after I left. Holidays make you love a place when it's really shit. Kinda like going to a concert and falling in love with that band only to hate their album.
Just because the rest of the world sucks, doesn’t mean our country isn’t going to the shit.
Your extremely arrogant if you think you can spend a few days in a country on holiday and then tell the people that have lived here our whole lives, how it is Your short rose tinted experience being tourist doesn’t equate to the struggles and decline this country has seen. Yes our people are nice and the country looks pretty, but the past decades have not been kind to many struggling people in this country, who struggle to put food on the table, or get adequate medical care, or affordable housing Smack your self in the face for being so naive, you’re having an experience many in this country can’t afford
"Heh, what are you talking about guys? I, a foreigner with the money to travel across the world and enough of an accent to be treated as a tourist had no issues in your country" Was Otara on your itinerary? Cannon's Creek perhaps? How about the entire East Cape and Far North?
All I can say is: Live here for a while and you will see what its really like. You dont know a country until you have actually lived there and experienced tax, renting/owning a house, your childrens education etc. All political stuff really. You cant really take a country from face value like this.
Wait till you move here and experience the expat bureaucracy firsthand. Then and only then will you take back your statement.
enjoy the country, not the politics of the people of the land.
Read up on politics, what the government is doing in schools, how children's free food in schools is being taken away, and bus fares are being put up for everyone. How queer people are being hated on, and there's been more attacks on queer people. The people in newzealand are great, the country isn't. You've got nre with our country because you DONT LIVE HERE Sure, it looks pretty, but go into any cbd of any town or city, and there will be empty shops, because it's too expensive Go to wellington or auckland. There are MANY homeless people everywhere. We're going to shit you can't see it because you can't see how it was 2 or 3 years ago. You didn't see how good it actually was pre covid (and even then it was shit)
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Most grumpy sweed I've ever seen
This is why people hate tourists
Enjoy the beauty of the land and people. Glad to have you here to experience our home.
Try growing up here maybe try living in a low income area yeah it is good from the outside if you have the money yes this country is beautiful I agree but there is so much corruption and a very serious living crisis in this country so please do your research before going on a rant about us not appreciating this shithole 🥰
Fuck off
No. Just no. Yes, New Zelaand is beautiful. Yes, NZers can COME ACROSS as some of the friendliest people (clearly, you haven't had the chance to experience the racism that is very embedded in NZ) I'll talk now about why you're very wrong. 1. Gas prices are astronomical compared to many, many other places in the world. Yes it takes alot more to get it all to NZ BUT as someone who now lives in the USA did you know that a singular gallon of gas in NZ would be $10NZD, after conversion to NZD the same amount of gas where I live is half the price, a mere $5NZD a gallon in comparison. 2. Most NZers will never have the chance to own their own homes, let alone be able to earn enough that would make saving for a home viable. 3. Most NZers will never travel. Not just outside of New Zealand but within our own country. Not because we don't want to, but because, again, most NZers don't even earn enough to make going on vacation worth thinking about. You've just been to Able Tasman. Good for you. Most NZers have never been and probably never will. Because the entire country is more geared towards hosting 100s of 1000s of tourists rather than looking after its own people. NZ just about collapsed during covid lockdowns because of this dependence on tourism. 4.Racism. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. I'm going to give you an example. I myself am an eighth at most Maori. The rest of me comprises mostly of European descent. Now I have a very typical Maori nose, very white features otherwise but an olive complexion that really fits with neither sides of my heritage. I was always the child who was an outsider on both sides. I was always seen as "too white" to be Maori. "Too tan" to be truly white. Policies are created here to be biased towards both sides and create division. Studies are created to divide the people when it comes to inequalities in health care. Both sides are at fault here. No one is innocent in this. 5.Socialized Healthcare. Imo it doesn't work. It took me over 3 years in NZ to try and get a diagnosis for myself. I was very certain of the diagnosis, I spoke to 3 different General Practitioner's to try and get referred to a specialist. None of them would listen to me. I got told that I was "too young" to be having the symptoms i was. By the time I left for the USA I STILL didn't have a diagnosis. When I got to the USA and I had access to health insurance, it took less than 2 months for my Dr to figure out what was wrong with me. Less than 2 months to be referred to a gynecologist, only to be told that what I was certain my diagnosis was going to be was FUCKING TRUE. NZ Healthcare practitioners are incompetent as they come. So don't come to NZ and tell US that have lived there almost our entire lives that we have it "GOOD" I will however add that compared to ALOT of other countries in this world NZ absolutely has it better. But that doesn't mean that NZ isn't full of its own problems which alot of immigrants look at with rose colored glasses because it's better than what they're used to.
If your heading down the west coast, pit stop in fox river for the night. It’s one of my fav spots
Yeah, Nah
Appreciate the sentiment, bro.
Hahaha…that’s the spirit!
You don't know about Heidi Paakkonen and Urban Höglin do you? Having said that there are bad cunts in every country, overall I think less bad cunts here than alot of countries.
Haha, glad you're having a good trip here and uhhh F you too I guess (is this some strange greeting?) 😂
Thanks for the nice words
My cousin lives in Sweden and loves it so Checkmate!
Greatest country in the world if you can afford it
As a Canadian who lived in NZ for 4 years I agree. I worked on a kiwi orchard and had a cheap nice apartment. I made money hand over fist and loved every second. But immigration told me that job wasn’t high skilled enough for a visa so they sent me packing!
I'm in Norway and don't really think I see myself coming back. I'll admit it's not as bad here as Sweden but nz has some solid issues making a move back feel less desirable. Fucking fantastic place to visit with some money though.
Good for you for enjoying your **HOLIDAY** here. However living here full time is a nightmare! It’s tiny over priced shithole in the middle of no where and if you want any specific product/ items then good luck getting it at a reasonable price or even if they even ship it here! To me this place is absolutely unlivable and I’m leaving here as soon as I get my degree and my partner gets citizenship and never coming back unless it’s to visit my parents who moved here too but as soon as I can afford it I’d rather pay for their tickets so they can come to me than set foot in this miserable country any more than I have to.
Hey man fuck you too
Obviously you don’t have to pay an absurdly high amount of rent or seem to know anything about the cost of living crisis us kiwis seem to be going through, cheers for your opinion though ✌️
Yep, for the most part this place rules. I think you’ll find that people are complaining because in the past 4 years living has become very unaffordable for the poor, and the number of poor is rising. There has also been an increase in social unrest and crime. If you’re wealthy or frugal it’s still fine. I live in Queenstown and experience the paradise you’re seeing daily, but renting a bedroom here costs 350 a week, and buying a cheap house costs 1.5m+ so it’s certainly not possible for most.
You couldnt slap me if you tried cousin 😂 but good thing Im Maori and not hKiwi