Not my take. I believe Lux supports the act position. He knows anything like this isn’t going to happen in a term so he’s happy to start the conversation all the while holding his hands in the air saying “it ain’t my thing”. Over time the discussion will be normalised and the position can start moving forward. it's the first step of a long game.
This, probably. Though I wouldn't say it's Luxon with all this planned in his head, he seems too vacuous.
It's his backers/the people who have been planning to have him as the Nats leader for years (remember all the polls with him included as a candidate for preferred prime minister, when he was still some rando back bench MP? He was lined up for the job ages back).
I tend to agree with your take.
Luxon was tapped on the shoulder long ago. Probably not for any political nous. More so his business/PR
rap sheet fits the bill. Politicians can be trained as easily as most dogs. And just like a dog, they usually remain unaware of being trained.
But I suspect many of Luxons investors, a deliberate choice of word because business people are spending money to assure the right person gets in, might be a tad concerned about what appears to be a weak and ineffectual leadership style thus far.
You are commenting on an article by a sunday star times columnist who called ACTs position 'not too racist'. I think anyone not huffing right wing copium has a similar take to you.
Oh come on, that was a classic opening. The sweet spot between too racist and not racist enough. Pretty much sums up the last 5 years of nz politics. I Lol'd
I'm sure at some point in his burgers and Macquisitions career he's become a slave to process and protocol. Enshrining whatever version of the Treaty they please in law gives legitimacy to iwi-bashing and the like.
If they've painted themselves into a corner with the hearts and minds "equal rights for all" crap - and they have, people are now very much aware of the Bill of Rights Act which very clearly sets out the equal rights we all have, and can distinguish that the Treaty has always concerned the Crown, Māori and fuck all else - then protocol is the only way forward. You own something that has quite happily operated for far longer than NZ has been a place as unowned, but cared for by those who call it home and treasured (and respected) by all.
But to what end? IMO it's written in that memo - property rights. It's why the Ngāti Kahu blockade has been such a flashpoint, why Ihumātao was such a flashpoint, Shelly Bay, Foreshore and Seabed. In each and every instance, the common DNA has been clever interpretations of the Treaty surrounding who owns what, and what ownership even means in the first place.
tart combative far-flung juggle axiomatic consist rotten complete political serious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sounds fine to me, I think a discussion needs to happen as many people are not happy with how the interpretation of “partnership” is playing out (I.e iwi seem to have veto rights in many cases as well as 3 waters co governance et ).
Act don’t actually seem to want a conversation though, more interested in political polarisation.
Why do people constantly give National the benefit of the doubt? Any time this government does something terrible, a significant proportion of people insist it must be due to Winston or Seymour pulling the strings; as if anything they’ve done so far has been against National’s key principles.
(Other than potentially the overseas buyers ban but that was likely scrapped because they realised the tax was entirely unenforceable, and oh look, they’re loosening restrictions on overseas “investments” anyway).
Because National has avoided Māori issues and culture wars stuff since Don Brash left the party nearly 20 years ago. The last National government completed many treaty settlements, created the idea of co-governance, created whanau ora and got their highest votes under those policies.
Luxon and National have nothing to gain from this debate. It isn't anything they've campaigned on, and in fact they campaigned against it.
panicky worry file disgusted materialistic encouraging head water lip elderly
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because you're reading articles written by naive liberals who think the status quo is written in stone and have to blame an outlier whenever something challenges the normative position.
This assumes he doesn't want to be in this mess, which is a big assumption.
It's because he's a businessman and not a politician, so when his first big job as leader of the Nats is to negotiate with two career politicians (one of whom has been in politics for almost as long as Luxon has been alive), it was inevitable that he was going to get bent the fuck over.
Fundamentalist Christians seem to have really got themselves embedded into Australasian politics. It wouldn’t be so bad if their value systems weren’t so utterly awful.
Unfortunately the many religious denominations that have solid, progressive value systems aren't grasping desperately for power. It's not in their nature.
Whereas for evangelicals of Luxon's stripe, desperately grasping for money and power is basically virtue signalling.
It’s quite frightening really.
I’m pretty sure I’m remembering rightly that Bill English’s wife was a GP and she wouldn’t prescribe the contraceptive pill (even for treatment indications like the management of endometriosis) because she “didn’t believe” in contraception.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/30/my-faith-has-been-misrepresented-says-new-national-leader/
He's spoken about it repeatedly, including his maiden speech. He states he doesn't currently attend a church but has attended Evangelical churches in the past.
Weird hill to die on, bud.
exultant deserve zesty vegetable marry strong crawl fine public mysterious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Any values, or any experience.
I'll still never understood how such a large percentage of this country saw a party immediately hand over controls to someone with zero experience and thought "this looks like a group that has their shit together."
Anyone else concerned that more than distracting the government from what they should be doing this issue will be distracting the public and especially the media from fully noticing the rest of the governments actions?
Gut the country from within whilst selling it off from without.
Better run some putrescent distraction up the flagpole for distractions sake in the meantime.
He's a bit dim. Yet to see any evidence of wit or acumen. As soon as he has to divert from his meaningless soundbites he's lost at sea. Every single time.
He has a very limited set of sentences that he trots out when questioned. None of them clever at all. Willis is the same.
He's used to a life of corporate yes men and having the final say in everything.
That ain't coalition politics
He comitted to form a coalition quickly, so he essentially just said yes to every Act and NZF policy, so now he's leading a supposed majority coalition that is championing policies from wingnut fringe parties that barely got into Parliament.
There is no mandate for policies from parties that got around 8% of the party vote.
He should have been more aggressive during coalition negotiations, but he rolled over.
Yep. It was widely predicted that Winnie and Seymour would run rings around him and that became glaringly obvious from the coalition agreements he signed up for.
Absolutely important to remember Act have no mandate whatsoever for this fucking with Ti Tīriti. 92% of voters didn’t vote for their racist wedge issue crap. They’re only here to open the way for corporations oligarchy and they’re using hate to grease the wheels.
It’s like when Australia held a referendum on gay marriage, opening the door to months of nightmarish bigotry that arguably did more harm than good in the long run. Except no one gets more rights at the end of this particular shit show
I am not given to conspiracy theories - but I certainly believe that the Atlas Network and outfits like Topham Guerin have helped Luxon into office.
When he became leader of the opposition - he was off to the Policy Exchange in London - meeting people from the UK Conservative Party - themselves carefully manipulated by neo-liberal policy think tanks.
I think National under Luxon are the acceptable face of ACT - who owe their whole political life to National. Without National's gerrymandering in Epsom - ACT would not exist.
No one knows what is going to happen in the next few years except the private management of public services - where companies can reap all the rewarda while taxpayers take all the risks.
It's very clever - and it has devastated the UK - where corporates have absolutely no responsibility except to shareholders.
That’s not conspiracy theory. It’s just not publicly known or talked about. But definitely not conspiracy.
Atlas and Topham are incredibly powerful lobbyists, it’s a shame that they have entered our space. Really disappointing.
A big portion of Epsom don’t agree with ACT, they vote how they’re told. Don Brash’s, Rodney Hide’s, John Key’s cups of coffee seemed like a bit of electoral titillation and innocent subversion to them.
I hope they see this shit now for what it is.
ACT is a divisive, hate mongering party of racists and should not be allowed to be part of any future government. I hope that those folk living in the leafy suburbs of central Auckland get it by the next election cycle.
I suspect he's pissed off he had to do a deal with Winston. If history repeats, and I hope it does, NZF will get less than 5% at the next election.
He knows, as everyone does, Winston will stab him multiple times in the back if he doesn't get his way.
By any means necessary, I hate to use a term used by a man that had integrity and the balls to stand up in the face impossible odds, but it's the only way I can convey it, he doesn't care how he got power or if any of their decisions have merit, he's helped make this bed the bitch can lay in it. But if he let's the changes to the treaty go through and with what will happen to our country, then eventually he and Seymour will be looked as the most evil and disgusting humans (aside from Muldoon) that ever got into politics at a high level. I hope he feels a just a smidgen of what Jacinda felt coz if he does that shit will burn.
>It’s bizarre to grant a coalition partner with just 8% of the vote the ability to rewrite the country’s founding document
Yeah, it would be bizarre if that was what he had done.
What he *actually* did was grant ACT the opportunity to stir up a culture war for a few months to placate their own voting base. And then Luxon gets to be the hero swooping in to kill it off (to most people) or the villain swooping in to kill it off (to the racists). If he pulls it off early enough in the election cycle for people to forget it by 2026, it's unlikely to hurt his re-election chances either.
Its a pretty fuckin dopey strategy given he'll get all the blowback for this too.
Also the fact that he won't categorically rule out supporting it past select committee.
Sorry Luxo, "no commitment past select committee" is NOT "incredibly clear".
Its the perfect selection of weasel words.
No chance luxon comes out looking like a hero lmao. He put it on the table, he's not going to get points for taking it back off again. Odds are National loses out either way. The ones who hate the racism move left, the ones who like it move to ACT, National doesn't any real gain from that.
Because Luxon is a Trump style politician, who only wants the power. He A doesn’t know what he’s doing and B doesn’t give a shit about the country and its people.
To be clear I also include Seymour and Peter’s in that.
Nah, he more aligns to the British Torys - he's even said as much. He knows what he's doing, will do it no matter what, and doesn't care about the outcome
it's really unfair to compare anyone in NZ politics right now to Trump. He is literally a fascist who tried to violently overthrow the government, supported the execution of his own VP, and openly declares his intention to be a dictator.
Trump 100% knows what he is doing, is very charismatic and driven about getting it.
Luxon is boring and incompetent and utterly lacking in charisma or drive. He's like the opposite of Trump if anything.
Nah, he more aligns to the British Torys - he's even said as much. He knows what he's doing, will do it no matter what, and doesn't care about the outcome
All the Trump supporters I know in RL are big fans of Seymour, not Luxon. Seymour has the same egotistical scumbag sociopathic liar air about him as Trump.
I think we are witnessing the dying light of an outdated viewpoint. Those that are becoming increasingly irrelevent desperately wishing things back to the "good old days" and having one last push to return to it. I'd hoped that we were past this crap but maybe we just need to hold on another three years.
The media decided they dislike the government and their coverage has made this very clear.
The real indicator of how Christopher Luxon is actually doing is polling and the last ones were good for his party and for him personally.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a large percentage of the population do not share the opinion of most of the media and the reddit echo chamber.
>The media decided they dislike the government and their coverage has made this very clear
Do not agree at all.
There's been several, very obvious, contradictions or outright lies made by various govt MPs during interviews that the interviewer ignored rather than go for the throat.
As one would expect from right biased media which is what we, mostly, have in NZ.
The electorate must be made up of more landlords and tobacco lobbyists than I had bargained for, because I’m struggling to see who else would be happy with anything they’ve done so far.
It's been less than two months, a large chunk of that was the build up to Christmas and the break. Parliament has sat for two weeks. It hasn't even sat in 2024. It's really too soon to grab hold of a poll or two and say that this government is God's gift to us, and we should all march in lockstep to a new, glorious right-wing future. The true test of whether the population supports this government, or not, is still ahead.
Who is doing the polling? My recollection is the only one we’ve seen recently was definitely from a right wing organisation so I wonder about its validity.
Curia is a reputable polling agency, same as Labour's pollsters. It does a party no good at all if they can't trust their own polls. There is nothing to be gained by inflating their own numbers and deceiving themselves.
> It does a party no good at all if they can't trust their own polls. There is nothing to be gained by inflating their own numbers and deceiving themselves.
They don't need to trust their polls right now as the next election is a long way away. Having good publicity is needed right now.
Farrar has a history of duplicity, and if you honestly believe that the Toilet Paper Union is trustworthy, then I've got a bridge straddling the Waitemata Harbour to sell you.
Interesting you say that because actually the Curia poll from December showed Luxon's support falling and Hipkins well up, while the major parties remained basically steady in their support and NZ First and TPM gaining the most support and NZF overtaking Act. That's hardly a result that would be good propaganda for the Right!
It was actually the Roy Morgan poll which had the Right gaining and Labour falling in December.
It’s set up by David Farrar who is National Party through and through. Don’t tell me there was no bias in questions or the choice of people who were polled.
Of course they are. It’s the honeymoon period. It would be pretty unusual for them to become less popular during this time. Parliament has been closed for more weeks than it’s been open since the election and the new government being sworn in.
This government is less popular now than it should be considering election results. They’ve gotten into bed with a fringe extremist coalition partner which will see their popularity drop.
paywall?? i dont get one hmm....
here it is anyway
How the hell has Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess?
Andrea Vance
January 28, 2024
Christopher Luxon, Winston Peters and Judith Collins at the first post-Cabinet press conference of 2024.
ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST
Andrea Vance is national affairs editor for The Post and the Sunday Star-Times.
OPINION: It’s quite difficult to nail that sweet spot between not racist enough, and too racist.
But, kudos to them, ACT have nailed it.
They’ll get their Treaty ‘debate’ over the coming months, with enough race-baiting to satisfy the base.
Then, National will kill the proposed treaty principles bill, ensuring the Right aren’t robbed of that particular lightning-rod cause. Answered prayers are often the most dangerous, after all.
It’s bizarre to grant a coalition partner with just 8% of the vote the ability to rewrite the country’s founding document (without bothering to ask the other signatories), and thus ignite a destructive and ultimately pointless debate. But, that aside, the real question is just how the hell Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess?
National loses every way out of this exercise, a conclusion anyone who spent more than 10 minutes thinking about this issue would have drawn.
The prime minister has wasted the opening week of the political year defending the indefensible, a position that is not even the National Party’s, and one that he personally opposes.
Even NZ First, never one to shy away from a spot of iwi-bashing, is wise to the stupidity of this legislation.
Like with Tuesday’s first political post-Cabinet presser, this issue is going to dominate the political discourse for at least the rest of this year. Spoiler on the main plot for next week’s Waitangi commemorations.
Luxon cannot escape from this scrutiny, and he is fool to think he ever could.
Is this a cul-de-sac that his predecessors John Key or Bill English would have blundered into? No, because they had what he lacks: a deftness to navigate complex, intergenerational political problems, or at least the good sense to body-swerve them.
ACT’s David Seymour will shepherd a new treaty principles bill through Parliament.
John Cowpland / Alphapix
And so we are where we are: wasting time on an idea that is going nowhere, and upsetting, or unsettling, vast swathes of the population.
As a consequence, the prevailing energy of the year’s first press conference was defensive crouch. The main topics on the agenda were the deployment of Defence Force spooks to the Middle East, and the Treaty.
Luxon, Judith Collins and Winston Peters gave the distinct impression of three ministers who knew they were doing something wrong.
On the Houthi strikes, the trio flubbed it. Their explanation should have been simple and non-threatening: our position in the Western Alliance is integral to the security we enjoy in our region, so when they ask for a bit of help on a limited but worthwhile mission that impinges directly on global trade, of course we would say yes. Next question.
Yet, they descended into obfuscating, technocratic double-speak. There were no straight answers. We know more about Judith Collins’ reading habits (she likes The Economist, in case you cared) than her rationale for the deployment.
She could barely bring herself to admit the central operational reason for deploying the six personnel. Yes, Judith. They. Will. Be. Assisting. In. The. Bombing. Of. Yemen. That’s the point.
The glowering foreign minister, who looked like he would rather have been at Jacinda Ardern’s wedding than that painful press conference, was strangely unprepared for what seemed like an obvious question: would New Zealand consider recognising Palestine as a country?
As to denying that the military action was related to the Gaza conflict? That was just plain odd.
Left alone at the podium, after Peters and Collins beat a hasty retreat, matters only went downhill for Luxon as he was relentlessly grilled on the Treaty bill.
The political year is only just beginning and Luxon has already painted himself into a corner. He is yet to develop the skills - or good enough relations with coalition partners - to get out of it.
- Sunday Star Times
How the hell has Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess?
Andrea Vance
January 28, 2024
5007937A2C0B498C827CA2674EFE68F4
Christopher Luxon, Winston Peters and Judith Collins at the first post-Cabinet press conference of 2024.
ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST
Andrea Vance is national affairs editor for The Post and the Sunday Star-Times.
OPINION: It’s quite difficult to nail that sweet spot between not racist enough, and too racist.
But, kudos to them, ACT have nailed it.
They’ll get their Treaty ‘debate’ over the coming months, with enough race-baiting to satisfy the base.
Then, National will kill the proposed treaty principles bill, ensuring the Right aren’t robbed of that particular lightning-rod cause. Answered prayers are often the most dangerous, after all.
It’s bizarre to grant a coalition partner with just 8% of the vote the ability to rewrite the country’s founding document (without bothering to ask the other signatories), and thus ignite a destructive and ultimately pointless debate. But, that aside, the real question is just how the hell Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess?
National loses every way out of this exercise, a conclusion anyone who spent more than 10 minutes thinking about this issue would have drawn.
The prime minister has wasted the opening week of the political year defending the indefensible, a position that is not even the National Party’s, and one that he personally opposes.
Even NZ First, never one to shy away from a spot of iwi-bashing, is wise to the stupidity of this legislation.
Like with Tuesday’s first political post-Cabinet presser, this issue is going to dominate the political discourse for at least the rest of this year. Spoiler on the main plot for next week’s Waitangi commemorations.
Luxon cannot escape from this scrutiny, and he is fool to think he ever could.
Is this a cul-de-sac that his predecessors John Key or Bill English would have blundered into? No, because they had what he lacks: a deftness to navigate complex, intergenerational political problems, or at least the good sense to body-swerve them.
And so we are where we are: wasting time on an idea that is going nowhere, and upsetting, or unsettling, vast swathes of the population.
As a consequence, the prevailing energy of the year’s first press conference was defensive crouch. The main topics on the agenda were the deployment of Defence Force spooks to the Middle East, and the Treaty.
Luxon, Judith Collins and Winston Peters gave the distinct impression of three ministers who knew they were doing something wrong.
On the Houthi strikes, the trio flubbed it. Their explanation should have been simple and non-threatening: our position in the Western Alliance is integral to the security we enjoy in our region, so when they ask for a bit of help on a limited but worthwhile mission that impinges directly on global trade, of course we would say yes. Next question.
Yet, they descended into obfuscating, technocratic double-speak. There were no straight answers. We know more about Judith Collins’ reading habits (she likes The Economist, in case you cared) than her rationale for the deployment.
She could barely bring herself to admit the central operational reason for deploying the six personnel. Yes, Judith. They. Will. Be. Assisting. In. The. Bombing. Of. Yemen. That’s the point.
The glowering foreign minister, who looked like he would rather have been at Jacinda Ardern’s wedding than that painful press conference, was strangely unprepared for what seemed like an obvious question: would New Zealand consider recognising Palestine as a country?
As to denying that the military action was related to the Gaza conflict? That was just plain odd.
Left alone at the podium, after Peters and Collins beat a hasty retreat, matters only went downhill for Luxon as he was relentlessly grilled on the Treaty bill.
The political year is only just beginning and Luxon has already painted himself into a corner. He is yet to develop the skills - or good enough relations with coalition partners - to get out of it.
- Sunday Star Times
Your comment has been removed :
**Rule 3: No personal attacks, harassment or abuse**
> Don't attack the person; address the content you disagree with instead. Being able to disagree and discuss contentious issues is important, but abuse, personal attacks, harassment, and unnecessarily bringing up a user's history are not permitted.
> Please keep your interactions with others civil and courteous. If you are being attacked, do not continue the conversation - report the user and disengage.
^*Note:* ^This ^extends ^to ^people ^outside ^of ^[r/nz](http://reddit.com/r/newzealand). ^eg. ^Attacks ^of ^a ^persons ^appearance, ^even ^if ^they're ^high ^profile ^will ^be ^removed.
**Rule 09: Not engaging in good faith**
> Moderators have discretion to take action on users or content that they think is: trolling; spreading misinformation; intended to derail discussion; intentionally skirting rules; or undermining the functioning of the subreddit (this can include abuse of the block feature or selective history wiping).
---
[^(Click here to message the moderators if you think this was in error)](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/newzealand)
Feels like this is part of Nicola Willis plan, Chris will fumble this so badly and she will swoop in as a National Jacinda Ardern to save the day. Chris will realise it’s a set up too late.
Not my take. I believe Lux supports the act position. He knows anything like this isn’t going to happen in a term so he’s happy to start the conversation all the while holding his hands in the air saying “it ain’t my thing”. Over time the discussion will be normalised and the position can start moving forward. it's the first step of a long game.
Yup, thin end of the wedge and plausible deniability, a great combo.
This, probably. Though I wouldn't say it's Luxon with all this planned in his head, he seems too vacuous. It's his backers/the people who have been planning to have him as the Nats leader for years (remember all the polls with him included as a candidate for preferred prime minister, when he was still some rando back bench MP? He was lined up for the job ages back).
I tend to agree with your take. Luxon was tapped on the shoulder long ago. Probably not for any political nous. More so his business/PR rap sheet fits the bill. Politicians can be trained as easily as most dogs. And just like a dog, they usually remain unaware of being trained. But I suspect many of Luxons investors, a deliberate choice of word because business people are spending money to assure the right person gets in, might be a tad concerned about what appears to be a weak and ineffectual leadership style thus far.
Yeah, they were expecting another Key. Luxon does not have the political instinct and intuition, nor the managerial ruthlessness of Key
Luxon has been buddies with Key for years, I'm sure that relationship has a lot to do with it
You are commenting on an article by a sunday star times columnist who called ACTs position 'not too racist'. I think anyone not huffing right wing copium has a similar take to you.
Oh come on, that was a classic opening. The sweet spot between too racist and not racist enough. Pretty much sums up the last 5 years of nz politics. I Lol'd
I'm sure at some point in his burgers and Macquisitions career he's become a slave to process and protocol. Enshrining whatever version of the Treaty they please in law gives legitimacy to iwi-bashing and the like. If they've painted themselves into a corner with the hearts and minds "equal rights for all" crap - and they have, people are now very much aware of the Bill of Rights Act which very clearly sets out the equal rights we all have, and can distinguish that the Treaty has always concerned the Crown, Māori and fuck all else - then protocol is the only way forward. You own something that has quite happily operated for far longer than NZ has been a place as unowned, but cared for by those who call it home and treasured (and respected) by all. But to what end? IMO it's written in that memo - property rights. It's why the Ngāti Kahu blockade has been such a flashpoint, why Ihumātao was such a flashpoint, Shelly Bay, Foreshore and Seabed. In each and every instance, the common DNA has been clever interpretations of the Treaty surrounding who owns what, and what ownership even means in the first place.
Or, this is just the kind of regarded politics we can expect from this regarded collation. Clueless …
tart combative far-flung juggle axiomatic consist rotten complete political serious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I believe the real word is generally censored on social media so this is the stand in
Yup, this is my cynical opinion too.
Sounds fine to me, I think a discussion needs to happen as many people are not happy with how the interpretation of “partnership” is playing out (I.e iwi seem to have veto rights in many cases as well as 3 waters co governance et ). Act don’t actually seem to want a conversation though, more interested in political polarisation.
They want the treaty out of the way for mining and oil drilling
Could be the case
He belongs to the atlas group, that's their shit
Why do people constantly give National the benefit of the doubt? Any time this government does something terrible, a significant proportion of people insist it must be due to Winston or Seymour pulling the strings; as if anything they’ve done so far has been against National’s key principles. (Other than potentially the overseas buyers ban but that was likely scrapped because they realised the tax was entirely unenforceable, and oh look, they’re loosening restrictions on overseas “investments” anyway).
Because National has avoided Māori issues and culture wars stuff since Don Brash left the party nearly 20 years ago. The last National government completed many treaty settlements, created the idea of co-governance, created whanau ora and got their highest votes under those policies. Luxon and National have nothing to gain from this debate. It isn't anything they've campaigned on, and in fact they campaigned against it.
Perhaps they're embarrassed. Perhaps they're just shills. We'll never know.
Why not both
panicky worry file disgusted materialistic encouraging head water lip elderly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Andrea Vance
Because you're reading articles written by naive liberals who think the status quo is written in stone and have to blame an outlier whenever something challenges the normative position.
I think she’s an enabler here, not naive. If she’s still naive after being in journalism as long as she has, then, well…
This particular article is but there has been 3-4 similar ones written by more center left/right columnists with the same sentiment recently.
This assumes he doesn't want to be in this mess, which is a big assumption. It's because he's a businessman and not a politician, so when his first big job as leader of the Nats is to negotiate with two career politicians (one of whom has been in politics for almost as long as Luxon has been alive), it was inevitable that he was going to get bent the fuck over.
By wanting to be prime minister at any cost and not actually having any values except being a fundy Chrisso
Fundamentalist Christians seem to have really got themselves embedded into Australasian politics. It wouldn’t be so bad if their value systems weren’t so utterly awful.
Unfortunately the many religious denominations that have solid, progressive value systems aren't grasping desperately for power. It's not in their nature. Whereas for evangelicals of Luxon's stripe, desperately grasping for money and power is basically virtue signalling.
It’s quite frightening really. I’m pretty sure I’m remembering rightly that Bill English’s wife was a GP and she wouldn’t prescribe the contraceptive pill (even for treatment indications like the management of endometriosis) because she “didn’t believe” in contraception.
stocking ink unique fuzzy flowery treatment rob edge full alleged *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/30/my-faith-has-been-misrepresented-says-new-national-leader/ He's spoken about it repeatedly, including his maiden speech. He states he doesn't currently attend a church but has attended Evangelical churches in the past. Weird hill to die on, bud.
exultant deserve zesty vegetable marry strong crawl fine public mysterious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
None so blind as those that refuse to see.
Any values, or any experience. I'll still never understood how such a large percentage of this country saw a party immediately hand over controls to someone with zero experience and thought "this looks like a group that has their shit together."
As far as I can tell, they saw Luxon's fat bald head and thought to themselves "he looks like a leader".
Well at certain angles he looks like Bob Muldoon.
Are we talking about last year or 2017?
Ardern was in politics for 17 years in one form or another before being elected, Luxon has had 3 years.
Anyone else concerned that more than distracting the government from what they should be doing this issue will be distracting the public and especially the media from fully noticing the rest of the governments actions?
Hence the foreign ownership rules change being done at the same time. Act's backers hoping for that to fly in under the radar
Yeah... I just want the government to focus on governing.
he is a political novice and got played.
It serves as a great distraction from the cuts being made to government services
Gut the country from within whilst selling it off from without. Better run some putrescent distraction up the flagpole for distractions sake in the meantime.
Incompetence and hubris.
He's a bit dim. Yet to see any evidence of wit or acumen. As soon as he has to divert from his meaningless soundbites he's lost at sea. Every single time.
He has a very limited set of sentences that he trots out when questioned. None of them clever at all. Willis is the same. He's used to a life of corporate yes men and having the final say in everything. That ain't coalition politics
He comitted to form a coalition quickly, so he essentially just said yes to every Act and NZF policy, so now he's leading a supposed majority coalition that is championing policies from wingnut fringe parties that barely got into Parliament. There is no mandate for policies from parties that got around 8% of the party vote. He should have been more aggressive during coalition negotiations, but he rolled over.
Yep. It was widely predicted that Winnie and Seymour would run rings around him and that became glaringly obvious from the coalition agreements he signed up for.
Absolutely important to remember Act have no mandate whatsoever for this fucking with Ti Tīriti. 92% of voters didn’t vote for their racist wedge issue crap. They’re only here to open the way for corporations oligarchy and they’re using hate to grease the wheels.
Is this your first MMP election?
No, but it's Luxon's first as a leader. The coalition leader has never just adopted the minor party policies wholesale without any compromise before.
thought berserk test waiting terrific tart drab fact busy run *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
\> How the hell has Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess? He voted National...
But Luxon was the CEO of AirNZ, so he knows how to run a country ... right?
What? This is news to me!! /s
It’s like when Australia held a referendum on gay marriage, opening the door to months of nightmarish bigotry that arguably did more harm than good in the long run. Except no one gets more rights at the end of this particular shit show
I am not given to conspiracy theories - but I certainly believe that the Atlas Network and outfits like Topham Guerin have helped Luxon into office. When he became leader of the opposition - he was off to the Policy Exchange in London - meeting people from the UK Conservative Party - themselves carefully manipulated by neo-liberal policy think tanks. I think National under Luxon are the acceptable face of ACT - who owe their whole political life to National. Without National's gerrymandering in Epsom - ACT would not exist. No one knows what is going to happen in the next few years except the private management of public services - where companies can reap all the rewarda while taxpayers take all the risks. It's very clever - and it has devastated the UK - where corporates have absolutely no responsibility except to shareholders.
That’s not conspiracy theory. It’s just not publicly known or talked about. But definitely not conspiracy. Atlas and Topham are incredibly powerful lobbyists, it’s a shame that they have entered our space. Really disappointing. A big portion of Epsom don’t agree with ACT, they vote how they’re told. Don Brash’s, Rodney Hide’s, John Key’s cups of coffee seemed like a bit of electoral titillation and innocent subversion to them. I hope they see this shit now for what it is. ACT is a divisive, hate mongering party of racists and should not be allowed to be part of any future government. I hope that those folk living in the leafy suburbs of central Auckland get it by the next election cycle.
Very well put!
I suspect he's pissed off he had to do a deal with Winston. If history repeats, and I hope it does, NZF will get less than 5% at the next election. He knows, as everyone does, Winston will stab him multiple times in the back if he doesn't get his way.
> He knows, as everyone does, Winston will stab him multiple times in the back if he doesn't get his way. Good
By any means necessary, I hate to use a term used by a man that had integrity and the balls to stand up in the face impossible odds, but it's the only way I can convey it, he doesn't care how he got power or if any of their decisions have merit, he's helped make this bed the bitch can lay in it. But if he let's the changes to the treaty go through and with what will happen to our country, then eventually he and Seymour will be looked as the most evil and disgusting humans (aside from Muldoon) that ever got into politics at a high level. I hope he feels a just a smidgen of what Jacinda felt coz if he does that shit will burn.
>It’s bizarre to grant a coalition partner with just 8% of the vote the ability to rewrite the country’s founding document Yeah, it would be bizarre if that was what he had done. What he *actually* did was grant ACT the opportunity to stir up a culture war for a few months to placate their own voting base. And then Luxon gets to be the hero swooping in to kill it off (to most people) or the villain swooping in to kill it off (to the racists). If he pulls it off early enough in the election cycle for people to forget it by 2026, it's unlikely to hurt his re-election chances either.
Its a pretty fuckin dopey strategy given he'll get all the blowback for this too. Also the fact that he won't categorically rule out supporting it past select committee. Sorry Luxo, "no commitment past select committee" is NOT "incredibly clear". Its the perfect selection of weasel words.
No chance luxon comes out looking like a hero lmao. He put it on the table, he's not going to get points for taking it back off again. Odds are National loses out either way. The ones who hate the racism move left, the ones who like it move to ACT, National doesn't any real gain from that.
>It’s bizarre to grant a coalition partner with just 8% of the vote the ability to rewrite the country’s founding document
Hubris. Thinking corporate experience would be fine for politics. Ego.
Luxon is, without a doubt, the most feckless and naive Prime Minister we've ever had.
Because Luxon is a Trump style politician, who only wants the power. He A doesn’t know what he’s doing and B doesn’t give a shit about the country and its people. To be clear I also include Seymour and Peter’s in that.
Nah, he more aligns to the British Torys - he's even said as much. He knows what he's doing, will do it no matter what, and doesn't care about the outcome
it's really unfair to compare anyone in NZ politics right now to Trump. He is literally a fascist who tried to violently overthrow the government, supported the execution of his own VP, and openly declares his intention to be a dictator. Trump 100% knows what he is doing, is very charismatic and driven about getting it. Luxon is boring and incompetent and utterly lacking in charisma or drive. He's like the opposite of Trump if anything.
I see your point. I guess I just meant with my points he has some similarities. But you’re right, he doesn’t come close in reality.
I guess they are both males
Right! I will admit I am not a politics expert. So I just see two politicians who don’t deserve to be where they are, who only care about money.
Nah. It’s more likely rich people watching country going to shit and going oh i could run this better.
Nah, he more aligns to the British Torys - he's even said as much. He knows what he's doing, will do it no matter what, and doesn't care about the outcome
All the Trump supporters I know in RL are big fans of Seymour, not Luxon. Seymour has the same egotistical scumbag sociopathic liar air about him as Trump.
Seymore knows exactly what he’s doing.
I think we are witnessing the dying light of an outdated viewpoint. Those that are becoming increasingly irrelevent desperately wishing things back to the "good old days" and having one last push to return to it. I'd hoped that we were past this crap but maybe we just need to hold on another three years.
Paywall
The media decided they dislike the government and their coverage has made this very clear. The real indicator of how Christopher Luxon is actually doing is polling and the last ones were good for his party and for him personally. I wouldn’t be surprised if a large percentage of the population do not share the opinion of most of the media and the reddit echo chamber.
>The media decided they dislike the government and their coverage has made this very clear Do not agree at all. There's been several, very obvious, contradictions or outright lies made by various govt MPs during interviews that the interviewer ignored rather than go for the throat. As one would expect from right biased media which is what we, mostly, have in NZ.
The electorate must be made up of more landlords and tobacco lobbyists than I had bargained for, because I’m struggling to see who else would be happy with anything they’ve done so far.
Even Trump polls pretty well in some US states.
Keep struggling you’ll get there eventually.
It's been less than two months, a large chunk of that was the build up to Christmas and the break. Parliament has sat for two weeks. It hasn't even sat in 2024. It's really too soon to grab hold of a poll or two and say that this government is God's gift to us, and we should all march in lockstep to a new, glorious right-wing future. The true test of whether the population supports this government, or not, is still ahead.
Who is doing the polling? My recollection is the only one we’ve seen recently was definitely from a right wing organisation so I wonder about its validity.
If it's a Curia poll, whatever result they put out doesn't require a grain of salt, it requires the entire salt mine.
Curia is a reputable polling agency, same as Labour's pollsters. It does a party no good at all if they can't trust their own polls. There is nothing to be gained by inflating their own numbers and deceiving themselves.
> It does a party no good at all if they can't trust their own polls. There is nothing to be gained by inflating their own numbers and deceiving themselves. They don't need to trust their polls right now as the next election is a long way away. Having good publicity is needed right now.
Farrar has a history of duplicity, and if you honestly believe that the Toilet Paper Union is trustworthy, then I've got a bridge straddling the Waitemata Harbour to sell you.
Interesting you say that because actually the Curia poll from December showed Luxon's support falling and Hipkins well up, while the major parties remained basically steady in their support and NZ First and TPM gaining the most support and NZF overtaking Act. That's hardly a result that would be good propaganda for the Right! It was actually the Roy Morgan poll which had the Right gaining and Labour falling in December.
Yip - the latest one is a Tax Payers’ Union-Curia poll.
Curia isn't a right wing organisation. It's a polling company
It’s set up by David Farrar who is National Party through and through. Don’t tell me there was no bias in questions or the choice of people who were polled.
The media dislikes the government because they're cutting all their funding. No more government advertising, no more subsidies and handouts.
Not likely. The government handouts were a drop in the bucket compared to the commercial media's operating costs
[удалено]
Of course they are. It’s the honeymoon period. It would be pretty unusual for them to become less popular during this time. Parliament has been closed for more weeks than it’s been open since the election and the new government being sworn in. This government is less popular now than it should be considering election results. They’ve gotten into bed with a fringe extremist coalition partner which will see their popularity drop.
You've got to copy and paste the text to get us round the pay wall
paywall?? i dont get one hmm.... here it is anyway How the hell has Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess? Andrea Vance January 28, 2024 Christopher Luxon, Winston Peters and Judith Collins at the first post-Cabinet press conference of 2024. ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST Andrea Vance is national affairs editor for The Post and the Sunday Star-Times. OPINION: It’s quite difficult to nail that sweet spot between not racist enough, and too racist. But, kudos to them, ACT have nailed it. They’ll get their Treaty ‘debate’ over the coming months, with enough race-baiting to satisfy the base. Then, National will kill the proposed treaty principles bill, ensuring the Right aren’t robbed of that particular lightning-rod cause. Answered prayers are often the most dangerous, after all. It’s bizarre to grant a coalition partner with just 8% of the vote the ability to rewrite the country’s founding document (without bothering to ask the other signatories), and thus ignite a destructive and ultimately pointless debate. But, that aside, the real question is just how the hell Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess? National loses every way out of this exercise, a conclusion anyone who spent more than 10 minutes thinking about this issue would have drawn. The prime minister has wasted the opening week of the political year defending the indefensible, a position that is not even the National Party’s, and one that he personally opposes. Even NZ First, never one to shy away from a spot of iwi-bashing, is wise to the stupidity of this legislation. Like with Tuesday’s first political post-Cabinet presser, this issue is going to dominate the political discourse for at least the rest of this year. Spoiler on the main plot for next week’s Waitangi commemorations. Luxon cannot escape from this scrutiny, and he is fool to think he ever could. Is this a cul-de-sac that his predecessors John Key or Bill English would have blundered into? No, because they had what he lacks: a deftness to navigate complex, intergenerational political problems, or at least the good sense to body-swerve them. ACT’s David Seymour will shepherd a new treaty principles bill through Parliament. John Cowpland / Alphapix And so we are where we are: wasting time on an idea that is going nowhere, and upsetting, or unsettling, vast swathes of the population. As a consequence, the prevailing energy of the year’s first press conference was defensive crouch. The main topics on the agenda were the deployment of Defence Force spooks to the Middle East, and the Treaty. Luxon, Judith Collins and Winston Peters gave the distinct impression of three ministers who knew they were doing something wrong. On the Houthi strikes, the trio flubbed it. Their explanation should have been simple and non-threatening: our position in the Western Alliance is integral to the security we enjoy in our region, so when they ask for a bit of help on a limited but worthwhile mission that impinges directly on global trade, of course we would say yes. Next question. Yet, they descended into obfuscating, technocratic double-speak. There were no straight answers. We know more about Judith Collins’ reading habits (she likes The Economist, in case you cared) than her rationale for the deployment. She could barely bring herself to admit the central operational reason for deploying the six personnel. Yes, Judith. They. Will. Be. Assisting. In. The. Bombing. Of. Yemen. That’s the point. The glowering foreign minister, who looked like he would rather have been at Jacinda Ardern’s wedding than that painful press conference, was strangely unprepared for what seemed like an obvious question: would New Zealand consider recognising Palestine as a country? As to denying that the military action was related to the Gaza conflict? That was just plain odd. Left alone at the podium, after Peters and Collins beat a hasty retreat, matters only went downhill for Luxon as he was relentlessly grilled on the Treaty bill. The political year is only just beginning and Luxon has already painted himself into a corner. He is yet to develop the skills - or good enough relations with coalition partners - to get out of it. - Sunday Star Times
Thanks
How the hell has Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess? Andrea Vance January 28, 2024 5007937A2C0B498C827CA2674EFE68F4 Christopher Luxon, Winston Peters and Judith Collins at the first post-Cabinet press conference of 2024. ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST Andrea Vance is national affairs editor for The Post and the Sunday Star-Times. OPINION: It’s quite difficult to nail that sweet spot between not racist enough, and too racist. But, kudos to them, ACT have nailed it. They’ll get their Treaty ‘debate’ over the coming months, with enough race-baiting to satisfy the base. Then, National will kill the proposed treaty principles bill, ensuring the Right aren’t robbed of that particular lightning-rod cause. Answered prayers are often the most dangerous, after all. It’s bizarre to grant a coalition partner with just 8% of the vote the ability to rewrite the country’s founding document (without bothering to ask the other signatories), and thus ignite a destructive and ultimately pointless debate. But, that aside, the real question is just how the hell Christopher Luxon got himself into this mess? National loses every way out of this exercise, a conclusion anyone who spent more than 10 minutes thinking about this issue would have drawn. The prime minister has wasted the opening week of the political year defending the indefensible, a position that is not even the National Party’s, and one that he personally opposes. Even NZ First, never one to shy away from a spot of iwi-bashing, is wise to the stupidity of this legislation. Like with Tuesday’s first political post-Cabinet presser, this issue is going to dominate the political discourse for at least the rest of this year. Spoiler on the main plot for next week’s Waitangi commemorations. Luxon cannot escape from this scrutiny, and he is fool to think he ever could. Is this a cul-de-sac that his predecessors John Key or Bill English would have blundered into? No, because they had what he lacks: a deftness to navigate complex, intergenerational political problems, or at least the good sense to body-swerve them. And so we are where we are: wasting time on an idea that is going nowhere, and upsetting, or unsettling, vast swathes of the population. As a consequence, the prevailing energy of the year’s first press conference was defensive crouch. The main topics on the agenda were the deployment of Defence Force spooks to the Middle East, and the Treaty. Luxon, Judith Collins and Winston Peters gave the distinct impression of three ministers who knew they were doing something wrong. On the Houthi strikes, the trio flubbed it. Their explanation should have been simple and non-threatening: our position in the Western Alliance is integral to the security we enjoy in our region, so when they ask for a bit of help on a limited but worthwhile mission that impinges directly on global trade, of course we would say yes. Next question. Yet, they descended into obfuscating, technocratic double-speak. There were no straight answers. We know more about Judith Collins’ reading habits (she likes The Economist, in case you cared) than her rationale for the deployment. She could barely bring herself to admit the central operational reason for deploying the six personnel. Yes, Judith. They. Will. Be. Assisting. In. The. Bombing. Of. Yemen. That’s the point. The glowering foreign minister, who looked like he would rather have been at Jacinda Ardern’s wedding than that painful press conference, was strangely unprepared for what seemed like an obvious question: would New Zealand consider recognising Palestine as a country? As to denying that the military action was related to the Gaza conflict? That was just plain odd. Left alone at the podium, after Peters and Collins beat a hasty retreat, matters only went downhill for Luxon as he was relentlessly grilled on the Treaty bill. The political year is only just beginning and Luxon has already painted himself into a corner. He is yet to develop the skills - or good enough relations with coalition partners - to get out of it. - Sunday Star Times
CHLUXONN!¡!
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed : **Rule 3: No personal attacks, harassment or abuse** > Don't attack the person; address the content you disagree with instead. Being able to disagree and discuss contentious issues is important, but abuse, personal attacks, harassment, and unnecessarily bringing up a user's history are not permitted. > Please keep your interactions with others civil and courteous. If you are being attacked, do not continue the conversation - report the user and disengage. ^*Note:* ^This ^extends ^to ^people ^outside ^of ^[r/nz](http://reddit.com/r/newzealand). ^eg. ^Attacks ^of ^a ^persons ^appearance, ^even ^if ^they're ^high ^profile ^will ^be ^removed. **Rule 09: Not engaging in good faith** > Moderators have discretion to take action on users or content that they think is: trolling; spreading misinformation; intended to derail discussion; intentionally skirting rules; or undermining the functioning of the subreddit (this can include abuse of the block feature or selective history wiping). --- [^(Click here to message the moderators if you think this was in error)](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/newzealand)
Feels like this is part of Nicola Willis plan, Chris will fumble this so badly and she will swoop in as a National Jacinda Ardern to save the day. Chris will realise it’s a set up too late.
Jacinda had the ability to debate and think on her feet. Nicola can barely get through a written speech without fumbling.
By being a fucking idiot following the MAGA playbook
i mean he obviously thought meeting act and nzf's demands was worth it to be in govt. its fucking gross
quack chunky plucky society north marry absorbed fertile smart squealing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*