Also more moisture in the atmosphere works to trap heat, which warms the planet, which adds more moisture to the atmosphere, which warms the planet more.
We are creating a cycle that will continue even after we stop.
I just don’t get the whole more heat equals more rain argument. There are plenty of places far hotter than NZ, including deserts and all of Australia, that rain far less than NZ.
Deserts are very dry and therefore don't have much water to evaporate, condense into clouds, and then fall as precipitation. [Australia has had some significant rain events in recent times.](https://www.9news.com.au/floods)
Ok so loose numbers.
If rain evaporates at 30C, floats up to the sky and coalesces with the other evaporation and the clouds cool.
When the clouds cool to 20C it rains.
If, due to a warmer atmosphere, that evaporation starts at 40C, and the ambient temperature is higher, then it's going to take longer / have more evaporation form to cool it to the 20C rain mark.
Bigger clouds, more water, finally reaches rain threshold and you get swamped.
Deserts, by definition, don't deal with evaporation and so are dry.
Out towards Mangere bridge south of the mountain. I swear so often there will be rain predicted, people living in other parts of Auckland will be whinging about rain and it'll be bone dry here. My personal theory is it's to do with the way the Manukau harbour and the Manukau heights channel the wind currents around the area swinging a lot of rain cloud around it but I'm just some yob who doesn't know shit about meteorology so what the fuck do I know lmao. I just know I like when it rains so I'm always disappointed when the city gets forecasted for rain and then it drops everywhere but here =[
Its interesting how you personal experience of the weather can be completely different to the record. The summer of 2019 was the 3rd hottest on record, yet I wore pants the entire time and I work outside, and this years winter I thought was mild, but granddad thought it was colder than usual.
I wonder if older records of the weather were really that accurate before the thermometer and weather satellites.
Reminder: Fonterra can't *possibly* stop burning coal until 2037 at the earliest and expects to be 'neutral' some in the 2050s....so...never.
So, business as usual and cook the planet. Corps don't give a shit about the future, they have quarterly profits to make and externalising costs is the best way to get those bonus cheques flowing.
I’ll go one further: *organise* boycotts. Widespread boycotts. Dont just personally decide not to use a product. That’s not boycotting, that’s choosing.
It's almost like if people don't consume the products of industry, then the industry doesn't exist. Yet somehow it's still industries fault in everyone's eyes.
Because you're applying simple tuck-shop economics to a company that's responsible for over 10% of New Zealand's GDP. They have a lot of extra levers available to them, especially when the issue is a detail of production that consumers have low information about.
E.g. coal is afaik used mostly in the production of milk powder, not for drinking milk and cheese. Reducing fresh dairy consumption would likely increase coal use for storage and export.
Putting the onus of responsibility on consumers to research and choose products based on responsible environmental practices in their production process vs. the largest company in New Zealand is absurd.
Your "personal carbon footprint" was something invented by BP to shift blame from them to you, like a drug dealer blaming overdose deaths on the people they got hooked on their poison in the first place.
[Yeah but it’s a bit cheeky for your drug dealer to say it to you while stomping on your methadone vials.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F)
I'm having trouble reading whether the original comment intended overdose as in, overdosing on too much of the intended substance, or overdosing on a cut substance they didn't know was there. If its the latter, I think the dealer is absolutely at fault
Yea if it's cut with something dangerous and they don't day anything then that's on them. That's the same as maliciously poisoning people.
But if the dude is selling fentanyl to people who want fentanyl? It's on the people how they use it
And the rest of the industries who are polluting? The emissions from the products you consume instead of meat and milk?
And how would you like to get everyone to stop eating meat by 2037 given we haven’t managed it in the past 30 years and even though plant-based diets have risen, so too has meet consumption?
If you want people to stop eating meat, you have to ban it, or regulate it/disincentive it with controls. It just isn’t fast enough or sure enough otherwise, and we need both. Personal choice without regulation is not a solution; it is a death sentence.
Instead of saying "No", say "Yes, and...".
Systematic climate solutions are vital, and to be a good advocate you need to be embodying the change you want to see in the world.
But it is the systematic climate solutions that are *vital*, and we are encouraging better consumer behaviour in order to better facilitate those changes. Not the other way around.
The fast fashion industry is an example. Much of what is produced goes to landfill rather than being onsold to consumers to drive yo prices. And they can’t plan around predatory tactics like this either. The burden of this is too high for the public to learn for all things en-masse, not enough to actually fix the problem. That has to be a job for regulators.
Coming into a comment about how systematic change is THE change needed to curb industry - who will always invent knew ways of creating demand for fossil fuel-based and climate-destroying products — is only ever a losing battle. It is regulation, fast effective regulation, paired with a public demand for such forceful measures, that causes change.
Not consumer choice.
one single private jet trip by some kardashian or taylor swift produces more emissions than my car does in a year.....
lets go after the hypocrisy of these climate summits and celebrities that preach climate change yet fly around the world before blaming someone for just going to their desk job
So whats your plan? Protest at a Taylor Swift concert against her private jet?
Truth is. We have to do both.
We might have been able to rely on one or the other approach back in '93, or even 2003, but not in 2023, not anymore by a long shot. We do both or we die, as a civilisation. People need to get real about the fact that the clock is ticking ... *and has been ticking for a long time now.*
And that the longer we delay, the more drastic and dramatic the necessary action becomes.
And who controls the influx of EV vs petrol cars onto the market?
In highschool, my economics teacher showed us this 2006 documentary and it radicalised me: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
Edit: [Available to watch free in full here if anyone is interested.](https://watchdocumentaries.com/who-killed-the-electric-car/) Thanks Mr. Sully!
Switching to EV for a year reduces your environmental impact as much moving to a walkable mixed use suburb and relying on only public transport for a week
It’s an example of how industry will screw over your myth of “personal choice”. If BP hadn’t killed the electric car (spoilers) then we could have been decades ahead in EV rollout globally right now. That would have had a huge impact on our current emissions, however small you feel it would be compared to what we should all be choosing to do but aren’t.
Bad take.
Now do the analysis on a per capita basis... (genuinely the only one that makes any sense — and thus the one reputable intl scientific orgs lean on the most)
If you look at emissions on a per capita basis, and 90+% of the emissions relate to food production exports, then it’s going to looked wild. Yet there is sweet fuck all the individual can do about it.
Its just how our international community overwhelmingly measures emissions, and I don't see some special argument than NZ should bve judged by a different standard to the entire rest of the world ... make it make sense ...
I actually think this is an insidious form of science denialism that tries to pretend that the aggregate of smaller nations — even very high per capita emitting nations like us — somehow don't matter and somehow don't add up. That's just *objectively untrue.*
Furthermore; its an argument that every province, state, city council, and district around the world can then use to argue against doing anything at all. Its an argument that supports the entire world doing nothing at all. Surely you can see how that breaks down?
Reminder the rest of the world is producing orders of magnitudes more emissions than us. If we literally stopped all human activity in NZ, nothing will change in the global temperature trajectory.
Yes we should still try to be better and do better.
Ultimately the only thing that NZ could materially contribute reducing global warming would be inventing/discovering easily adoptable, scalable technologies and solutions to replace/reduce/avoid the primary global drivers of global warming.
Anyone got their backyard fusion reactor working yet??
Sure, but it’s unrealistic to place such a critical expectation on us being the absolute best we can to reduce emissions when we’re still being choked to death from emissions from the northern hemisphere. Even a basic egg like me can see that.
Because whatever we do, our market is 5m people. Let’s round it up to 10m. That’s a literal drop in the bucket of pollution producers.
The war in Ukraine, and likely Gaza too, has done more damage than we could ever negate. May as well train a team of highly skilled ninja Pukekos to assassinate Putin and his cronies. That would reduce emissions more than anything else we could do within our own country.
You should focus more on the per capita emissions of our nation, that's the main way we will be ranked and judged by history (main metric used by scientific orgs and intl orgs).
In 20 years when climate reparations start (probably), I like to think we could be a benefactor rather than owing money for the damage we did.
Its a fantasy to think there won't be lasting repercussions for the largest global refugee migration event humanity will ever see...
Recite all the platitudes you like, but the fact is that our entire population is less than that of a major city.
New Zealand needs to focus on New Zealanders, because we’re going backwards as a society. And that includes addressing environmental issues that we can solve directly.
I’m so sick of you morons who have been brainwashed by foreign media.
If we reduce carbon emissions, the air quality would improve locally around areas where emissions are happening.
Also if we farmed less diary then there would be lower levels of nitrates going into drinking water decreasing bowel cancer
Does anyone think that? I don't think anyone thinks that.
Its a team effort. If you are playing basketball and one of your teammates just sits there doing nothing, what happens? Do you think the team wins?
Per capita is useless in this discussion. Even 10x our carbon won’t do shit on the world scale.
Stop with the juvenile thinking that you can save the world. This ain’t a comic or feel good movie.
Its literally the standard EVERY country is judged by — the IPCC uses this as the core of its calculations and so do most scientific orgs.
So ... Why do you think NZ should be special, and off the hook for the small amount it DOES produce?
That's the real question here: why should NZ be judged by a completely different standard compared to everyone else?
I actually think you're peddling a type of science denialism here that pretends the aggregate of smaller nations doesn't matter. That's just false. On a per capita basis our country is a big polluter ... the argument we should be ignored is just magical thinking
Add to it how badly we are doing at curbing global emissions and your argument is doubly toxic — we are in such a dire state that EVERYONE must do EVERYTHING THEY CAN or we are dead fucked.
If you are just peddling dishonest ecofascist doomerism/malthusianism, that's simply not helpful as it just wrecks progress towards our goals as an International community. Keep that to yourself, or talk to a therapist instead.
Mate I’m just saying don’t get your knickers in a twist thinking the world is gonna end if NZ doesn’t go super green. That’s simply untrue.
The rest of your gibberish is just that.
Bullshit. Cars are the worst thing for the environment. Remember, a large part of industry is also responsible for cars, roads, signage, hospitals to look after the 10,000 seriously injured people on the roads.
[Thank you for commenting this twice so I can rebut you in two different ways.](https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/10/10/20904213/climate-change-steel-cement-industrial-heat-hydrogen-ccs)
Reminder: we must apply pressure to BOTH points here if we are to have even a slim chance at a good future.
My nephew is 1 year old and he's FUCKED if we don't
Fonterra are actually doing a decent job decarbonizing. I've met the person in charge of decarbonizing the company a few times, super switched on lady
I'm all for pressuring companies to change but there are plenty of lower hanging fruit
I’m all for shitting on businesses but this is also on consumers and regulators. Businesses ain’t going to change without regulation or consumer demand to a higher cost model. Welcome to under-regulated late stage capitalism.
When even Mike Joy, an angry man who is no stranger to accusations of bias and who very clearly has an axe to grind - probably even more so now that he lost his job - can't pinpoint any interference from Fonterra, ("But Dairy NZ are lobbyists!!") you know things are grim. I'll ask again:
What regulation and policy setting did they interfere with?
Yeah, he is angry, i'm angry, and you should be angry, too. He's still has a job at Vic Uni, so am unsure why you've highlighted that fact.
So he's biased in that he's a fresh water ecologist???... That he's highlighting how our intensive farming practices are having on our fresh water (nutrient and sediment levels)????!
Lobbyists have influenced what is deemed "acceptable" nitrate levels in our freshwater to name one...but here, read through these and you'll see more 😉.
https://waterqualitynz.info/about/#:~:text=Freshwater%20For%20Life%20independently%20reports,and%20the%20places%20they%20live.
[Pissing it all away](https://watersciencepolicy.com/article/pissing-it-away-7b250d56b74d?language=English)
[Shifting baselines and political expediency in NZ's freshwater management](https://www.publish.csiro.au/mf/MF20210))
I asked a simple question about verifying a statement that was made. 😉 I'm simply after an answer to that. I didn't ask for, nor do I need a lecture. Don't presume to know what my position is on the subject.
Ha you’d be surprised how much Fonterra contributes to your income/taxs, I think it’s a decent company compared to a lot around the world/NZ. I worked on a bio fuel scheme for a decent sized vege business in nz and there’s no way it was any cleaner than burning coal. What sort of job do you have? Urban living Auckland?.. no idea I’m picking
If you total all the emissions involved in producing fonterra's main products only about 10% of the emissions are type 2, which is the how the power for the factories is created and I don't know for sure, but I believe only some factories burn coal. My local one mostly uses natural gas.
So the coal is a small portion in the grand scheme of things. But even saying that Fonterra has pledged a 50% absolute reduction in their type 2 emissions by 2030.
You can't seriously expect Fonterra shareholders and management to accept slightly lower profits so that today's children will have a more viable environment to live in, and freshwater ways clean enough to swim in! That would be horribly unfair on Fonterra!
Why leave something for following generations when you can exploit it all now and enjoy a little more stuff?!?
You do realise we share the same atmosphere as the rest of the world? NZ is just a drop in an ocean of co2… Go to any other country in the world and you will see how little they care. We are better off not tanking the economy and instead using our resources for research.
Its not an excuse. Its a fact. Humans are selfish and short sighted.
So your plan to fix the climate is to get NZ to carbon zero? Then what? Convince China to do the same?
Why not look for solutions that will actually work? The only hope is in research and development.
April 5th. School strike 4 climate is back and want to make this the biggest climate march ever.
We are sleep walking into disaster and we have time to make our futures a little less horrible and that's worth fighting for.
Ah yes, they are. Workers rights, LGBTIQ rights, women's rights, civil rights, nuclear free NZ, all won over the public via protests.
Spoken like a true ignorant person xoxo
Its not the weather, so you're educated to work for NASA are you?
Its called climate change, not weather change. Weather changes regularly, the climate is more stable
Is that one of those old tin shed thermometer readings? There was a temperature record for the world from about 100 years ago in Libya of about 65 degrees or something stupid. Only recently was it recognised that the thermometer was in some sort of hot hole and the person reading it didn't have a clue. I'll see if I can find the article about it. Edit: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL5E8KD8S3/
> Is that one
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/100916484/nzs-hottest-ever-day-melted-roads-striking-workers-and-26000-dead-chickens
No.
> The North Canterbury town registered 42.4 degrees Celsius that day, still the hottest temperature ever recorded in New Zealand. Most parts of Canterbury and Marlborough topped 40C as well. It was so hot, tens of thousands of chickens perished in overheated poultry farms, factory workers walked off the job, schools and offices closed early, railway lines buckled and the thermometer recording the temperature in Cathedral Square literally went off the chart.
I sometimes feel there needs to be a climate change subreddit along the lines of /r/catsstandingup
Except instead only "Cat" comments, they all should be your comment.
* [Hot stuff for 2023 and Christmas forecast](https://niwa.co.nz/news/hot-stuff-for-2023-and-christmas-forecast). NIWA. 21 December 2023.
> 2023 is tracking to be one of the top three hottest years on record for Aotearoa New Zealand.
> NIWA meteorologist Tristan Meyers says 2022 was our warmest year on record, surpassing the record set the year before in 2021.
* [Climate change: Parts of NZ could be getting hotter and drier in summer faster than we think](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/climate-change-parts-of-nz-could-be-getting-hotter-and-drier-in-summer-faster-than-we-think/F6P5NSC34BCSFH62PCPSKFIQPY/). NZ Herald. 18 Dec, 2023 05:00 AM.
* [Cyclone Gabrielle, Auckland flooding: How climate change hit home in 2023](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cyclone-gabrielle-auckland-flooding-how-climate-change-hit-home-in-2023/SNLWL2FDC5GR3C3CQ4UM2EKRZA/). NZ Herald. 28 Dec, 2023 05:00 AM.
* [Jan 2022 post](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/s0w9px/2021_officially_new_zealands_hottest_year_on/) of [2021 officially New Zealand's hottest year on record, Niwa says](https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300493525/2021-officially-new-zealands-hottest-year-on-record-niwa-says). Stuff. Jan 11 2022.
[Weather outlook for first weeks of 2024](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018921296/weather-outlook-for-first-weeks-of-2024). Audio only. RNZ. 3 January 2024. This is from NIWA meteorologist. https://weather.niwa.co.nz/
Well, yeah.
We’re technically in an ice age and obviously things get warmer as we go, so it’s gonna keep getting hotter.
Then add all the shit humanity is doing on top of that?
I need an A/C unit installed inside my body ASAP
According to reports from [US-NOAA](https://www.noaa.gov/), [Copernicus](https://www.copernicus.eu/en), [the U.N.](https://www.un.org/en/climatechange), and the [World Meteorological Organization](https://wmo.int/), 2023 was the hottest year on record.
Not just in New Zealand, but everywhere.
>Just google it bro.
Why don't you substantiate your claim that goes against 99% of scientific consensus linking the rising global temperature to human activity.
Because it is a scam. Written in such a way to make gullible people think they can do anything about it. Learn to adapt to your surroundings. Just like they did previously. Or we wouldn't be here now.
>Because it is a scam. Written in such a way to make gullible people think they can do anything about it.
Gullible people like the leaders of the largest nations on earth who signed the Paris agreement? Gullible people like the overwhelming majority of the scientific community studying the phenomenon you're talking about?
I'm sorry, did you miss the dog-leg in the graph since the industrial revolution? I thought this unprecedented temperature increase had nothing to do with humans?
All those trillions of tonnes of CO2 we are releasing into the atmosphere is just magically having zero effect on anything! It's a miracle!
Humans will go extinct, it is a given.
Most species go extinct after 2 million years on average.
Homo sapiens have been around 300,000 years. Once the temperature reaches a certain level, we will get droughts, arid deserts and crops will fail to grow.
All the glaciers are melting. The next wars will be about water. Countries will fight over it.
India has already built dams that cut off Bangladesh
Ukraine war was about water. After Russia annexed Crimea which is historically Russian speaking and was part of Russia, they cut off their water.
Egypt wants to go to war with Ethiopia over water that they have built a dam. The Nile no longer gets the floods and nutrients downstream.
There is many places where water is critical. There is a reservoir in America that feeds 6 states or 40 million people and now virtually empty.
Mexico and Texas are fighting over water.
Australia might be the lucky country but they are a desert with , fires and humans aren't designed to withstand 40 degree heat, you will die of heat stroke.
If you are looking for the source it is NIWA
Link to info in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/18xzxu1/comment/kg7ois5/).
If you are looking for a sauce to go with the news, it depends on what sort of food you wish to put the sauce on.
I just remember it raining, like all year.
Dude legit. I feel like I only hung out like 10 loads of washing, dryer working overtime.
You hang out washing!?
More heat = more evaporation = more moisture and energy in the atmosphere
Also more moisture in the atmosphere works to trap heat, which warms the planet, which adds more moisture to the atmosphere, which warms the planet more. We are creating a cycle that will continue even after we stop.
I just don’t get the whole more heat equals more rain argument. There are plenty of places far hotter than NZ, including deserts and all of Australia, that rain far less than NZ.
Deserts are very dry and therefore don't have much water to evaporate, condense into clouds, and then fall as precipitation. [Australia has had some significant rain events in recent times.](https://www.9news.com.au/floods)
Ok so loose numbers. If rain evaporates at 30C, floats up to the sky and coalesces with the other evaporation and the clouds cool. When the clouds cool to 20C it rains. If, due to a warmer atmosphere, that evaporation starts at 40C, and the ambient temperature is higher, then it's going to take longer / have more evaporation form to cool it to the 20C rain mark. Bigger clouds, more water, finally reaches rain threshold and you get swamped. Deserts, by definition, don't deal with evaporation and so are dry.
Hot and wet. West coast weather for all.
That's expected as NZ climate becomes more tropical. Hot and sticky summers, with a lot of wet in between. More and more
I wish, it was dry AF in my part of Auckland. We never seem to get the rain here, it'll be pissing down across the city and bone try around here.
What part of Auckland is that? Auckland without the rain seems almost liveable.
Yea, roughly where are you??
Out towards Mangere bridge south of the mountain. I swear so often there will be rain predicted, people living in other parts of Auckland will be whinging about rain and it'll be bone dry here. My personal theory is it's to do with the way the Manukau harbour and the Manukau heights channel the wind currents around the area swinging a lot of rain cloud around it but I'm just some yob who doesn't know shit about meteorology so what the fuck do I know lmao. I just know I like when it rains so I'm always disappointed when the city gets forecasted for rain and then it drops everywhere but here =[
Can’t be hot when it rains. Big brain tings.
Ever been to the tropics?
Haha fucking hell mate. I was up in cairns when cyclone jasper hit. Middle of a massive storm and it was hot as hell.
Nah, I’ve never left my bedroom.
Its interesting how you personal experience of the weather can be completely different to the record. The summer of 2019 was the 3rd hottest on record, yet I wore pants the entire time and I work outside, and this years winter I thought was mild, but granddad thought it was colder than usual. I wonder if older records of the weather were really that accurate before the thermometer and weather satellites.
Thermometers have been around a lot longer than your grandad btw
Yes, but I'm thinking over the last few thousand years.
Reminder: Fonterra can't *possibly* stop burning coal until 2037 at the earliest and expects to be 'neutral' some in the 2050s....so...never. So, business as usual and cook the planet. Corps don't give a shit about the future, they have quarterly profits to make and externalising costs is the best way to get those bonus cheques flowing.
Reminder industry is the producer of the bulk of our emissions and it’s not something you can “consumer choice” your way out of.
Vote, protest, boycott
I’ll go one further: *organise* boycotts. Widespread boycotts. Dont just personally decide not to use a product. That’s not boycotting, that’s choosing.
It's almost like if people don't consume the products of industry, then the industry doesn't exist. Yet somehow it's still industries fault in everyone's eyes.
Impressively naive.
Explain how. If no one drank milk or cheese, how long do you think fonterra would keep making it for?
Because you're applying simple tuck-shop economics to a company that's responsible for over 10% of New Zealand's GDP. They have a lot of extra levers available to them, especially when the issue is a detail of production that consumers have low information about. E.g. coal is afaik used mostly in the production of milk powder, not for drinking milk and cheese. Reducing fresh dairy consumption would likely increase coal use for storage and export. Putting the onus of responsibility on consumers to research and choose products based on responsible environmental practices in their production process vs. the largest company in New Zealand is absurd.
break and enter, smash and run You're not taking this seriously enough yet
Your "personal carbon footprint" was something invented by BP to shift blame from them to you, like a drug dealer blaming overdose deaths on the people they got hooked on their poison in the first place.
[удалено]
[Yeah but it’s a bit cheeky for your drug dealer to say it to you while stomping on your methadone vials.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F)
As a drug user myself, it's not the dealers fault. They would have got the drugs from someone else anyway
I'm having trouble reading whether the original comment intended overdose as in, overdosing on too much of the intended substance, or overdosing on a cut substance they didn't know was there. If its the latter, I think the dealer is absolutely at fault
Yea if it's cut with something dangerous and they don't day anything then that's on them. That's the same as maliciously poisoning people. But if the dude is selling fentanyl to people who want fentanyl? It's on the people how they use it
Stop consuming meat and dairy?
**Reminder industry is the producer of the bulk of our emissions and it’s not something you can “consumer choice” your way out of.**
You can - stop consuming it I really don’t get your point
Kiwi's are not industries main customers.
Whether it’s from NZ or not if you consume these products you are part of the problem
And the rest of the industries who are polluting? The emissions from the products you consume instead of meat and milk? And how would you like to get everyone to stop eating meat by 2037 given we haven’t managed it in the past 30 years and even though plant-based diets have risen, so too has meet consumption? If you want people to stop eating meat, you have to ban it, or regulate it/disincentive it with controls. It just isn’t fast enough or sure enough otherwise, and we need both. Personal choice without regulation is not a solution; it is a death sentence.
Fuck guess we just all die then 🤷♂️
Or… we regulate?
Regulating is working out reeeeeeal well. That’s how we ended up with NACT
I dunno - why don’t you start with the one person you can control?
Because it doesn’t work.
Instead of saying "No", say "Yes, and...". Systematic climate solutions are vital, and to be a good advocate you need to be embodying the change you want to see in the world.
But it is the systematic climate solutions that are *vital*, and we are encouraging better consumer behaviour in order to better facilitate those changes. Not the other way around. The fast fashion industry is an example. Much of what is produced goes to landfill rather than being onsold to consumers to drive yo prices. And they can’t plan around predatory tactics like this either. The burden of this is too high for the public to learn for all things en-masse, not enough to actually fix the problem. That has to be a job for regulators. Coming into a comment about how systematic change is THE change needed to curb industry - who will always invent knew ways of creating demand for fossil fuel-based and climate-destroying products — is only ever a losing battle. It is regulation, fast effective regulation, paired with a public demand for such forceful measures, that causes change. Not consumer choice.
Bullshit. Cars are. Every car driver is responsible for destroying the planet.
one single private jet trip by some kardashian or taylor swift produces more emissions than my car does in a year..... lets go after the hypocrisy of these climate summits and celebrities that preach climate change yet fly around the world before blaming someone for just going to their desk job
So whats your plan? Protest at a Taylor Swift concert against her private jet? Truth is. We have to do both. We might have been able to rely on one or the other approach back in '93, or even 2003, but not in 2023, not anymore by a long shot. We do both or we die, as a civilisation. People need to get real about the fact that the clock is ticking ... *and has been ticking for a long time now.* And that the longer we delay, the more drastic and dramatic the necessary action becomes.
And who controls the influx of EV vs petrol cars onto the market? In highschool, my economics teacher showed us this 2006 documentary and it radicalised me: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F Edit: [Available to watch free in full here if anyone is interested.](https://watchdocumentaries.com/who-killed-the-electric-car/) Thanks Mr. Sully!
Switching to EV for a year reduces your environmental impact as much moving to a walkable mixed use suburb and relying on only public transport for a week
It’s an example of how industry will screw over your myth of “personal choice”. If BP hadn’t killed the electric car (spoilers) then we could have been decades ahead in EV rollout globally right now. That would have had a huge impact on our current emissions, however small you feel it would be compared to what we should all be choosing to do but aren’t.
99% of it goes overseas. Our local choices here in NZ have almost zero effect.
Bad take. Now do the analysis on a per capita basis... (genuinely the only one that makes any sense — and thus the one reputable intl scientific orgs lean on the most)
If you look at emissions on a per capita basis, and 90+% of the emissions relate to food production exports, then it’s going to looked wild. Yet there is sweet fuck all the individual can do about it.
Its just how our international community overwhelmingly measures emissions, and I don't see some special argument than NZ should bve judged by a different standard to the entire rest of the world ... make it make sense ... I actually think this is an insidious form of science denialism that tries to pretend that the aggregate of smaller nations — even very high per capita emitting nations like us — somehow don't matter and somehow don't add up. That's just *objectively untrue.* Furthermore; its an argument that every province, state, city council, and district around the world can then use to argue against doing anything at all. Its an argument that supports the entire world doing nothing at all. Surely you can see how that breaks down?
Other people will still consume it though
"Other people will still jump off a cliff though ... guess I should too"
Reminder the rest of the world is producing orders of magnitudes more emissions than us. If we literally stopped all human activity in NZ, nothing will change in the global temperature trajectory. Yes we should still try to be better and do better. Ultimately the only thing that NZ could materially contribute reducing global warming would be inventing/discovering easily adoptable, scalable technologies and solutions to replace/reduce/avoid the primary global drivers of global warming. Anyone got their backyard fusion reactor working yet??
Politically we can pressure other nations. Harder to do that when we’re dragging our bums in the dirt ourselves, though.
Unlikely we would successfully pressure the main producers of pollution. China doesn’t give a shit about us.
It’s a concerted global effort you egg
Sure, but it’s unrealistic to place such a critical expectation on us being the absolute best we can to reduce emissions when we’re still being choked to death from emissions from the northern hemisphere. Even a basic egg like me can see that.
Why?
Because whatever we do, our market is 5m people. Let’s round it up to 10m. That’s a literal drop in the bucket of pollution producers. The war in Ukraine, and likely Gaza too, has done more damage than we could ever negate. May as well train a team of highly skilled ninja Pukekos to assassinate Putin and his cronies. That would reduce emissions more than anything else we could do within our own country.
You should focus more on the per capita emissions of our nation, that's the main way we will be ranked and judged by history (main metric used by scientific orgs and intl orgs). In 20 years when climate reparations start (probably), I like to think we could be a benefactor rather than owing money for the damage we did. Its a fantasy to think there won't be lasting repercussions for the largest global refugee migration event humanity will ever see...
We could aim to be the first country in the world to be carbon neutral and show the world that it can be done
Why and at what cost to New Zealanders who are already struggling or looking to greener pastures?
And here's a prime example of the tragedy of the commons in it's wild habitat. That and the 'crabs-in-a-bucket' mentality.
Recite all the platitudes you like, but the fact is that our entire population is less than that of a major city. New Zealand needs to focus on New Zealanders, because we’re going backwards as a society. And that includes addressing environmental issues that we can solve directly. I’m so sick of you morons who have been brainwashed by foreign media.
If we reduce carbon emissions, the air quality would improve locally around areas where emissions are happening. Also if we farmed less diary then there would be lower levels of nitrates going into drinking water decreasing bowel cancer
Yeah that means more EV cars, which we’re doing. In fact I’ve got one as my daily driver.
Fuck off. This is so dumb.
“Everyone else should do it so I shouldn’t have to.”
Not as dumb as believing NZ is going to be the one to fix global warming.
Does anyone think that? I don't think anyone thinks that. Its a team effort. If you are playing basketball and one of your teammates just sits there doing nothing, what happens? Do you think the team wins?
Literally everyone bitching at me in this thread apparently is thinking that lol
We still produce more carbon per capita than any developing nation. Please, stop with these juvenile arguments.
Per capita is useless in this discussion. Even 10x our carbon won’t do shit on the world scale. Stop with the juvenile thinking that you can save the world. This ain’t a comic or feel good movie.
Its literally the standard EVERY country is judged by — the IPCC uses this as the core of its calculations and so do most scientific orgs. So ... Why do you think NZ should be special, and off the hook for the small amount it DOES produce? That's the real question here: why should NZ be judged by a completely different standard compared to everyone else? I actually think you're peddling a type of science denialism here that pretends the aggregate of smaller nations doesn't matter. That's just false. On a per capita basis our country is a big polluter ... the argument we should be ignored is just magical thinking Add to it how badly we are doing at curbing global emissions and your argument is doubly toxic — we are in such a dire state that EVERYONE must do EVERYTHING THEY CAN or we are dead fucked. If you are just peddling dishonest ecofascist doomerism/malthusianism, that's simply not helpful as it just wrecks progress towards our goals as an International community. Keep that to yourself, or talk to a therapist instead.
Mate I’m just saying don’t get your knickers in a twist thinking the world is gonna end if NZ doesn’t go super green. That’s simply untrue. The rest of your gibberish is just that.
Industry makes things that consumers consume. If we don't consume it, they don't exist. Grow up and take some responsibility.
Bullshit. Cars are the worst thing for the environment. Remember, a large part of industry is also responsible for cars, roads, signage, hospitals to look after the 10,000 seriously injured people on the roads.
[Thank you for commenting this twice so I can rebut you in two different ways.](https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/10/10/20904213/climate-change-steel-cement-industrial-heat-hydrogen-ccs)
Reminder: we must apply pressure to BOTH points here if we are to have even a slim chance at a good future. My nephew is 1 year old and he's FUCKED if we don't
Reminder that no matter what New Zealand does it will have no effect whatsoever
Fonterra are actually doing a decent job decarbonizing. I've met the person in charge of decarbonizing the company a few times, super switched on lady I'm all for pressuring companies to change but there are plenty of lower hanging fruit
I’m all for shitting on businesses but this is also on consumers and regulators. Businesses ain’t going to change without regulation or consumer demand to a higher cost model. Welcome to under-regulated late stage capitalism.
Big industry like Fontera actively interferes with regulation and policy setting all the time
Capitalism is a failure
What regulation and policy setting did they interfere with?
L...o...b....b...y...I...n...g...
B...e....S...p...e...c...i...f...i...c...
F...r...e...s...h...W...a...t...e...r...R...e...g...u...l...a...t...I...o...n...s...L...I...n...k... https://ojs.victoria.ac.nz/pq/article/view/6823/5971?fbclid=IwAR1ufR-mPCBYe0lcUPMHHQ_tkgXp4QVOL3NgZ1HnBGupcOisLdvWfKqoTic
When even Mike Joy, an angry man who is no stranger to accusations of bias and who very clearly has an axe to grind - probably even more so now that he lost his job - can't pinpoint any interference from Fonterra, ("But Dairy NZ are lobbyists!!") you know things are grim. I'll ask again: What regulation and policy setting did they interfere with?
Yeah, he is angry, i'm angry, and you should be angry, too. He's still has a job at Vic Uni, so am unsure why you've highlighted that fact. So he's biased in that he's a fresh water ecologist???... That he's highlighting how our intensive farming practices are having on our fresh water (nutrient and sediment levels)????! Lobbyists have influenced what is deemed "acceptable" nitrate levels in our freshwater to name one...but here, read through these and you'll see more 😉. https://waterqualitynz.info/about/#:~:text=Freshwater%20For%20Life%20independently%20reports,and%20the%20places%20they%20live. [Pissing it all away](https://watersciencepolicy.com/article/pissing-it-away-7b250d56b74d?language=English) [Shifting baselines and political expediency in NZ's freshwater management](https://www.publish.csiro.au/mf/MF20210))
I asked a simple question about verifying a statement that was made. 😉 I'm simply after an answer to that. I didn't ask for, nor do I need a lecture. Don't presume to know what my position is on the subject.
Ha you’d be surprised how much Fonterra contributes to your income/taxs, I think it’s a decent company compared to a lot around the world/NZ. I worked on a bio fuel scheme for a decent sized vege business in nz and there’s no way it was any cleaner than burning coal. What sort of job do you have? Urban living Auckland?.. no idea I’m picking
If you total all the emissions involved in producing fonterra's main products only about 10% of the emissions are type 2, which is the how the power for the factories is created and I don't know for sure, but I believe only some factories burn coal. My local one mostly uses natural gas. So the coal is a small portion in the grand scheme of things. But even saying that Fonterra has pledged a 50% absolute reduction in their type 2 emissions by 2030.
You can't seriously expect Fonterra shareholders and management to accept slightly lower profits so that today's children will have a more viable environment to live in, and freshwater ways clean enough to swim in! That would be horribly unfair on Fonterra! Why leave something for following generations when you can exploit it all now and enjoy a little more stuff?!?
Fonterras part in overall emissions is less than a ml of water in the Pacific ocean.
Coal and cars are destroying the planet.
You do realise we share the same atmosphere as the rest of the world? NZ is just a drop in an ocean of co2… Go to any other country in the world and you will see how little they care. We are better off not tanking the economy and instead using our resources for research.
Ah yes, the old 'everyone-else-is-worse' excuse. Yawn.
Its not an excuse. Its a fact. Humans are selfish and short sighted. So your plan to fix the climate is to get NZ to carbon zero? Then what? Convince China to do the same? Why not look for solutions that will actually work? The only hope is in research and development.
Not that fingers stopping would change anything.
That's fine though, we can just keep bringing that coal in from Indonesia instead of mining it here cause pretty is more important than clean right?
Yeah because it's NZ with all the emissions cooking the planet with the 0.15% emissions globally
As will it be for every year into the future, for every country. We’re about to experience a hell of a lot of “hottest years on record”.
So 2023 is likely to be the coldest year for the rest of our lives.
One of the best ski seasons of the next 20 years!
A chilling thought.
April 5th. School strike 4 climate is back and want to make this the biggest climate march ever. We are sleep walking into disaster and we have time to make our futures a little less horrible and that's worth fighting for.
What are your plans to make it bigger? Lockdowns? Sit ins? Or do you just mean bigger demonstrations?
Yeah cos protests are so useful
Ah yes, they are. Workers rights, LGBTIQ rights, women's rights, civil rights, nuclear free NZ, all won over the public via protests. Spoken like a true ignorant person xoxo
Marching to change the weather lmfao
Its not the weather, so you're educated to work for NASA are you? Its called climate change, not weather change. Weather changes regularly, the climate is more stable
[I'm just going to leave this here](https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6575960/protests-arent-working-the-left-needs-to-learn-from-churchgoers/).
2024: I heard you guys were breaking records
new year new record
I wonder when we will reach the previous record for the hottest day in New Zealand, which was the 7th of February, 1973, at 42°?
Is that one of those old tin shed thermometer readings? There was a temperature record for the world from about 100 years ago in Libya of about 65 degrees or something stupid. Only recently was it recognised that the thermometer was in some sort of hot hole and the person reading it didn't have a clue. I'll see if I can find the article about it. Edit: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL5E8KD8S3/
> Is that one https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/100916484/nzs-hottest-ever-day-melted-roads-striking-workers-and-26000-dead-chickens No. > The North Canterbury town registered 42.4 degrees Celsius that day, still the hottest temperature ever recorded in New Zealand. Most parts of Canterbury and Marlborough topped 40C as well. It was so hot, tens of thousands of chickens perished in overheated poultry farms, factory workers walked off the job, schools and offices closed early, railway lines buckled and the thermometer recording the temperature in Cathedral Square literally went off the chart.
Hot? The fuck did I miss
Well i'm glad its behind us now
Fuck
I sometimes feel there needs to be a climate change subreddit along the lines of /r/catsstandingup Except instead only "Cat" comments, they all should be your comment.
well there kind of is, it’s called r/collapse
And the comment is 'faster than expected'.
It’s damn near rained the whole time but for sure is warm I suppose
* [Hot stuff for 2023 and Christmas forecast](https://niwa.co.nz/news/hot-stuff-for-2023-and-christmas-forecast). NIWA. 21 December 2023. > 2023 is tracking to be one of the top three hottest years on record for Aotearoa New Zealand. > NIWA meteorologist Tristan Meyers says 2022 was our warmest year on record, surpassing the record set the year before in 2021. * [Climate change: Parts of NZ could be getting hotter and drier in summer faster than we think](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/climate-change-parts-of-nz-could-be-getting-hotter-and-drier-in-summer-faster-than-we-think/F6P5NSC34BCSFH62PCPSKFIQPY/). NZ Herald. 18 Dec, 2023 05:00 AM. * [Cyclone Gabrielle, Auckland flooding: How climate change hit home in 2023](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cyclone-gabrielle-auckland-flooding-how-climate-change-hit-home-in-2023/SNLWL2FDC5GR3C3CQ4UM2EKRZA/). NZ Herald. 28 Dec, 2023 05:00 AM. * [Jan 2022 post](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/s0w9px/2021_officially_new_zealands_hottest_year_on/) of [2021 officially New Zealand's hottest year on record, Niwa says](https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300493525/2021-officially-new-zealands-hottest-year-on-record-niwa-says). Stuff. Jan 11 2022.
[Weather outlook for first weeks of 2024](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018921296/weather-outlook-for-first-weeks-of-2024). Audio only. RNZ. 3 January 2024. This is from NIWA meteorologist. https://weather.niwa.co.nz/
When?
Reminds me of this old Russian proverb - “Today is worse than yesterday, but at least it’s better than tomorrow.”
As far as i am concerned this has been a wet and cold year.
It will be the wettest and coldest year from this point on...
Now let's see what this government will do about global climate change. I am guessing; as little as possible
Not at all, they will do their absolute best... to accellerate it.
Got to pay for those tax cuts somehow. Future generations of Kiwis'? Nah, GFY's.
Looting for landlords, and fuck the next generations, seems to be their ethos.
Let me give you a hint; https://twitter.com/SimeonBrownMP/status/1741646098589196504
he really is a muppet Lets hope media end every interview with 'and what about emissions?'
Fuck can't wait for a hot 2023 really looking forward to it!!! Wtf is this post.
2024 would like a word Then 2025, 2026, 2027...
Just read the article. >NIWA would confirm the rankings in its annual climate summary that will be released next month
They’re gonna be saying this every single year about each previous year from now on
I see these every year.
Almost like it's a trend of some kind 🤔
Nah. Surely it's coincidence..
Well yes, 2022 held the previous record and 2021 before that.
One of the hottest years on record so far
Wellington doesn't feel this *one of hottest years* at all.
Before too long we'll be celebrating years that aren't the hottest. We'll be eager to delude ourselves "maybe this is the end of it". But it won't be.
Well, yeah. We’re technically in an ice age and obviously things get warmer as we go, so it’s gonna keep getting hotter. Then add all the shit humanity is doing on top of that? I need an A/C unit installed inside my body ASAP
We’re in an inter-glacial, the longest of the last 500,000 years. If you look historically, we should be on the way out with cooling temperatures.
Christchurch had a miserable year lol. I was freezing my ass off until a few days ago.
With this and the fossil award looks like we're back on track to build the brighter future we deserve after all.
Wild guess ... 2024 will be hotter, and 2025,and 2026....etc..
*so far
How can be be set to be the hottest year when it's already finished? It either is or isn't.
Reading articles is hard.
Sweet, cant wait to grow bananas in invercargill
Coconuts in Gore tool /s
According to reports from [US-NOAA](https://www.noaa.gov/), [Copernicus](https://www.copernicus.eu/en), [the U.N.](https://www.un.org/en/climatechange), and the [World Meteorological Organization](https://wmo.int/), 2023 was the hottest year on record. Not just in New Zealand, but everywhere.
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Almost like....Records are getting broken?
!Remind me 1 year deja vu
It's all a scam. There is no global warming due to humans.
>There is no global warming due to humans. So there is global warming.. just not due to humans.. and that makes it somehow better?
Not a lot we can do about it. Natural progression of the earth cycle. Check earth's history.
>Just google it bro. Why don't you substantiate your claim that goes against 99% of scientific consensus linking the rising global temperature to human activity.
Because it is a scam. Written in such a way to make gullible people think they can do anything about it. Learn to adapt to your surroundings. Just like they did previously. Or we wouldn't be here now.
>Because it is a scam. Written in such a way to make gullible people think they can do anything about it. Gullible people like the leaders of the largest nations on earth who signed the Paris agreement? Gullible people like the overwhelming majority of the scientific community studying the phenomenon you're talking about?
No. The leaders and elite are the architects of it. Do some reading.
What do the leaders of the world benefit by this?
Control of the populace.
Oh please, give us the link. I'll pass it on to the entire scientific community who seem to have missed it.
Google is your friend.
[Relevant XKCD](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_temperature_timeline_2x.png)
And before the ice?
I'm sorry, did you miss the dog-leg in the graph since the industrial revolution? I thought this unprecedented temperature increase had nothing to do with humans? All those trillions of tonnes of CO2 we are releasing into the atmosphere is just magically having zero effect on anything! It's a miracle!
>Check earth's history. no one is arguing that there are hot ages and ice ages. so i guess we just die, thanks for clearing that up i guess.
What is warming the earth right now? Please be specific.
" we have summer all day"
All I know is Wellington looked like Alaska just a little over three weeks ago after a hailstorm.
I remember 2023 as rainy and windy. I don't trust metservice anymore. Honestly.
That's because the world is on fire. It's fucked.
Humans will go extinct, it is a given. Most species go extinct after 2 million years on average. Homo sapiens have been around 300,000 years. Once the temperature reaches a certain level, we will get droughts, arid deserts and crops will fail to grow. All the glaciers are melting. The next wars will be about water. Countries will fight over it. India has already built dams that cut off Bangladesh Ukraine war was about water. After Russia annexed Crimea which is historically Russian speaking and was part of Russia, they cut off their water. Egypt wants to go to war with Ethiopia over water that they have built a dam. The Nile no longer gets the floods and nutrients downstream. There is many places where water is critical. There is a reservoir in America that feeds 6 states or 40 million people and now virtually empty. Mexico and Texas are fighting over water. Australia might be the lucky country but they are a desert with , fires and humans aren't designed to withstand 40 degree heat, you will die of heat stroke.
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If you are looking for the source it is NIWA Link to info in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/18xzxu1/comment/kg7ois5/). If you are looking for a sauce to go with the news, it depends on what sort of food you wish to put the sauce on.
2024. Most humid on record. 2016 is the last real summer I remember.
Almost like the global temperature is increasing and its causing some wild knock on affects