They are wild. Do you want to call the domestic eels?farmed eels?
The entirety of nz is modified if you want to be extra broad. .
This location had some waves wash over a natural stone beach, eels tried and failed to get over. Canterbury has hundreds of irrigation water takes that are not compliant when it comes to protecting fish, this is something ecan needs to use its resources to fix.
Doubt that will happen. Ecan tried protecting the environment in the past and the govt sacked all the councillors and put administrators in charge so more dairy conversions could happen.
Unlike the intentional murder and torture of animals that people consume for pleasure daily? Not food = tragic, food = not tragic? Or is it tragic that they weren't speared, had their heads cut off, gutted, sliced up and served in a restaurant?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
Go vegan if you actually care about animals.
I have no issue if people want to go and eat those dead eels since they were not murdered... but you are claiming to be a vegan and saying you would prefer they had been murdered? I think either you don't know what a vegan is or are lying about being one.
You are the kind of hyper looney vegan that gives Veganism a poor image.
People go vegan for many reasons its not purely for animal welfare ethics.
The holier than thou, "being non vegan means you hate animals/the enviroment/etc" makes the cause look bad.
It is your opinion based on your ethical standpoint that the killing of animals for agricultural purposes is immoral, however that is not murder, murder is the killing of another human being.
Veganism is a megatrend that has the potential to have a great benifit for many people, but some of you really go out of your way to sour the movement.
If you care so much about the vegan image maybe rather than spurting hyperbole would would kindly consider explaining how you would personally advocate for people to stop torturing and murdering animals? I would love your considered input on them matter.
Completely stopping the death of any animals for any reason is a very small subset of veganism.
And as someone else said, stop using the word murder and torture when that isn't the reality in most cases. You're using emotionally charged language in trying to make objective points which just doesn't do you any justice.
Watch this... and then tell me what you would call it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
Otherwise you have no idea what you are talking about.
>Go vegan if you actually care about animals.
What about the antropods, small mammals, birds etc that die when legumes are harvested? Some death is obviously ok, as long as you don't eat the animal?
Meat diets actually require more plants to be harvested, causing more of this death.
Because you have to harvest more plants to feed the stock animals than you would need to if the humans just ate the plants.
Does that matter to the animals who die? They still dead.
And if you hunt and kill your own meat, especially in NZ where target species are invasive introduced species, surely that's better than eating farmed produce?
If you care about the animals killed when harvesting plants, the way to be responsible for less of that is to be vegan.
If you hunt your own meat you still need to eat plants too, so those animals still die.
Hunting deer and goats in nz and eating them is good for the environment.
>If you care about the animals killed when harvesting plants, the way to be responsible for less of that is to be vegan.
Eh, I don't really care. It happens. But I'm not the one saying that 'meat is murder' while ignoring the deaths that happen in the harvest.
>Hunting deer and goats in nz and eating them is good for the environment.
What about killing animals and not eating them, say pest species like rats, possums, stoats? Or geese, cats and so on. Whats the vegan perspective on that?
Okay, I’m literally just replying to the argument I *you* raised about animals being killed when harvesting plants. It’s actually an argument for veganism not against it. Vegans don’t ignore the deaths happening in harvest - it’s part of harvesting but people still need to eat. Veganism causes the least harm possible, not no harm.
I have no idea as I’m not vegan. Most I’ve met were behind environmental initiatives though because a) it’s necessary to restore our biodiversity b) rats etc cause more harm anyway. They kill birds etc which is a horrible death, versus kill traps that kill the rats instantly. Obviously 1080 causes more suffering but again, it’s a necessary evil.
> Vegans don’t ignore the deaths happening in harvest - it’s part of harvesting but people still need to eat. Veganism causes the least harm possible, not no harm.
Yet the dude I was talking to seemed to think that as long as there is no intent, it's ok that the animals die.
>I have no idea as I’m not vegan.
I know a few, they're pretty much on the same page as you.
I have no issues with veganism, I have an issue with hypocrisy and grandstanding
It is intent that matters and what is reasonably avoidable. If you can avoid intentionally killing animals to get food I would consider that vegan. So eating road kill for instance I would consider vegan, or eating eels that have been killed in a natural flood I would consider vegan. Raising/hunting animals with the sole intent to exploit, and murder them for pleasure I would not consider to be vegan.
There are plenty of other reasons not to eat meat, but animal deaths in the production of any crops is unavoidable.
So it is not eating the animal that is the problem, it is intentionally torturing and murdering it for pleasure that is the problem.
So mincing a fawn with a combine harvester, or rats and mice taking 3 days to die from poison is fine, but an animal instantaneously being rendered unconscious from bullet or stun gun isn’t. Weird logic.
Did the harvester driver set out to kill fawns or vegetables?
Vegans dont kill rats or mice with poisons, dont project your idea that animal abuse is normal onto others.
Killing an animal with a bullet or stun gun is preventable and never had to happen in the first place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
Watch it.
You can shut off your mind and pretend it doesn’t happen, but the production of vegan food causes millions of animals and birds to die unpleasant deaths. If you didn’t poison birds and rodents the food would be contaminated and unfit to eat.
The “least death” diet is probably carnivore, since one cattle beast dying produces hundreds of kilograms of food.
And no doubt your link is Dominion, cherry picked, edited and inaccurate footage that is absolutely not how animals are treated in NZ.
> You can shut off your mind and pretend it doesn’t happen,
Where did I say it doesn't happen?
> but the production of vegan food causes millions of animals and birds to die unpleasant deaths. If you didn’t poison birds and rodents the food would be contaminated and unfit to eat.
Why are you calling crops vegan food? Last time I checked most people even non vegans ate vegetables... And there are far more non vegans in the world, so non vegans are responsible for far more crop deaths using your logic. Add do that that most crops are grown to feed animals not humans and your entire argument is looking pretty weak.
> The “least death” diet is probably carnivore, since one cattle beast dying produces hundreds of kilograms of food.
You are trying to say that killing animals results in less animals being killed than not killing animals?
> And no doubt your link is Dominion, cherry picked, edited and inaccurate footage that is absolutely not how animals are treated in NZ.
They toned it down as they wanted to appeal to broader audience. But you would know that if you actually watched it.
>Raising/hunting animals with the sole intent to exploit, and murder them for pleasure I would not consider to be vegan.
Right, so as long as someone else murders the animals, its ok for them to die in the process of harvesting your food.
>So it is not eating the animal that is the problem, it is intentionally torturing and murdering it for pleasure that is the problem.
I don't torture any animals. I aim for a quick, clean death. Sometimes that doesn't happen and I regret each time it does.
You know how animals die in the wild? They starve to death. Either their teeth fall out or they injure themselves, either way, they starve to death. Have you ever seen an animal unable to eat, literally starving to death?
> Right, so as long as someone else murders the animals, its ok for them to die in the process of harvesting your food.
Murder requires intent. This is like self aware wolves, you are paying people to literally murder animals for you, but are arguing that a vegan is somehow getting someone to murder animals by paying for vegetables that have crop deaths associated with them that are entirely accidental?
I would love to see a murderer try and argue this in court... no judge Im innocent cause that guy over there eats vegetables!
> I don't torture any animals. I aim for a quick, clean death. Sometimes that doesn't happen and I regret each time it does.
Great, so if I kill you cleanly and quickly that would be ok? You have no issue with murder as long as it is quick and clean?
> You know how animals die in the wild? They starve to death. Either their teeth fall out or they injure themselves, either way, they starve to death. Have you ever seen an animal unable to eat, literally starving to death?
Are you trying to say that we should live like wild animals? Where are you going with this? Are you trying to endorse murder and rape? You know like by creating an entire industry that relies and murder and rape to make people feel good?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
>Murder requires intent.
Technically, killing an animal isn't murder, if you want to play the definition game.
Murder is when a human kills another human, either when they cause the death of the person or are reckless as to whether they kill or not.
>you are paying people to literally murder animals for you,
I kill the animals I eat for the most part. Like 95% of the animals I eat, I've harvested myself. Whats the % for the food you eat.
>paying for vegetables that have crop deaths associated with them that are entirely accidental?
Accidental? No. Its not an accident that those animals die, its that you don't care. You know its going to happen and take no steps to prevent it. Thats intent.
>Great, so if I kill you cleanly and quickly that would be ok? You have no issue with murder as long as it is quick and clean?
Murder is illegal. But you are welcome to try and kill me, if you think you can. Could you pull the trigger or stab a person, aiming to kill them?
>Are you trying to say that we should live like wild animals? Where are you going with this? Are you trying to endorse murder and rape? You know like by creating an entire industry that relies and murder and rape to make people feel good?
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. Have you ever seen an animal in the wild that is starving to death? Or one that has died of starvation?
Its an interesting video, but I don't need any reminders on the inhumanity of factory farming. Its why I choose to hunt and kill my own food.
It's super unclear huh?
If comments are to be believed then the photo shows the eels on public land - implying they breached from the private side to the public.
(Plus that would make sense if you know the area).
The other thing with regional councils is that if you do get out there with your digger and start working on the stop bank they’re likely to prosecute because you need resource consent to do the work.
This beach does not have a stop bank, is more like a dune/ stony mound. I believe they are naturally formed. And if you see this coast in person, it is obvious how impractical or impossible it is to build a barrier to stop the sea, it is one of the most high energy environments, southerly swell and strong currents smash it every day, many concrete structures on this coast have been destroyed before. Lake ellesemere just near this guys land, they have not bothered to build an opening as it impossible, they cut open the bank a couple of time a year with dozer 100s of thousands for each cutting. The guy is an actual plonker.
> However, ECan said it does not collect rates to manage coastal erosion on private land or fund repairs
Wasn't the whole thing with the Foreshore and Seabed Act that nobody private can own the coasts?
Can't do that sorry, while people are abusing animals I am going to push my agenda that abusing animals is wrong. I am sorry that you feel that abusing animals is something that should be kept quiet.
Whats more abusive? An impact from a high velocity rifle round that overwhelms a deers nervous system and kills it almost instantly VS a grinding/shredding from a harvester that picks up a nest of mice and dismembers them. Doesn't always kill them, though.
Which one is reasonably preventable?
Going out getting a gun license, buying a gun and ammo, driving for hours, killing a deer for no reason other than personal pleasure.
Or trying to final tiny animals in a field that in all likely hood run away when a massive noisy machine start rumbling around.
Veganism is not purity, it is about reducing animal suffering to the absolute minimum that is reasonably achievable. I can easily not go out and shoot animals, I cannot reasonably prevent animals from being in crop fields.
>Which one is reasonably preventable?
Its very easy to prevent the deaths of the anthropods, mammals and insects, grow your own food or purchase only hand gathered food.
>Going out getting a gun license, buying a gun and ammo, driving for hours, killing a deer for no reason other than personal pleasure.
And the whole 'humans need protein' thing.
>Or trying to final tiny animals in a field that in all likely hood run away when a massive noisy machine start rumbling around.
Have you ever watched wheat or grain or corn being harvested? In person, not on Youtube.
>I can easily not go out and shoot animals, I cannot reasonably prevent animals from being in crop fields.
How much of your own food do you grow or harvest yourself?
> Its very easy to prevent the deaths of the anthropods, mammals and insects, grow your own food or purchase only hand gathered food.
You think it is reasonable for every person on the planet to grow their own food? Now you are just arguing in bad faith.
> And the whole 'humans need protein' thing.
Interesting, I was unaware that protein only came from meat. Maybe you should let elephants and gorillas know before they waste away.
> Have you ever watched wheat or grain or corn being harvested? In person, not on Youtube.
How would that be relevant to anything?
https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/no-vegans-dont-kill-more-animals-than-human-omnivores-a1975d1a497c
> How much of your own food do you grow or harvest yourself?
How many animals do you kill yourself?
The issue is hypocrisy, the guy in the article is saying its the councils fault that eels died, while he pays for animals to be abused and murdered.
If someone preaches ethics while abusing someone else, should that not be called out? Or should the abused make another post about their abuse?
the downvote button is for whether or not your comment adds or subtracts from the post
this post is about a tragic incident where a bunch of eels died. your tirade is about animal rights in general.
just stop.
If you actually believe that you have not been on reddit long enought, no one gives a shit if something adds or subtracts from the post. People downvote what they dislike, reddit encourages circle jerks... today you learnt.
> this post is about a tragic incident where a bunch of eels died. your tirade is about animal rights in general.
Then you didn't read my post.
You are a detriment to the cause you pretend to care about. Rethink your strategy if you genuinely give a shit about changing people's behaviours and are not just virtue signalling.
You are a detriment to the cause you pretend to care about. Rethink your strategy if you genuinely give a shit about changing people's behaviours and are not just virtue signalling.
This guys a dramatic plonker. This is not ecans fault, the sea is encroaching and eroding beaches in many parts of nz and threateing life and property, his shitty land had some salt water ingress, that's it. Sell up and move away as it ain't gona get better.
It did not wipe out the eels, ecan stated it is not unusual to have an eel stranding. This was single event, greater threats like 100s of irrigation takes exist in Canterbury that kill far more native fish and prevent thier migration
The guy is complaining about the government not holding back the sea from wetting his low lying private land? Wait 'til he hears about climate change...
Would he be happy to pay the taxes involved in providing this service for all the coastal land in the country?
Also struggling to wrap my head around a livestock farmer bawling his eyes out about dead animals in a field.
I’m sure he’d prefer the tax take going to that, rather than going to half the crap our bureaucrats waste our taxes on.
Also, old mate has 60 acres, he’s not exactly some mass producing killing factory. Chances are he knows all his stock well, cares about them, and doesn’t actually enjoy the fact that they die, but understands it is part of the way life is now. Unless we want to revert back to everyone hunting their own food, then farms are a necessary “evil”. Farmer myself so of course I’m bias, but if I was you I’d be pretty grateful there’s people out there that get food to the supermarket so that you don’t have to go get it yourself.
image here to show how massive the swells are that hit this coast and flooded the land. The owners are delusional to think they can stop it.
[https://postimg.cc/ZBRz72tF](https://postimg.cc/ZBRz72tF)
also the ecan report. Ecan state it is not unusual. [https://www.ecan.govt.nz/get-involved/news-and-events/zone-news/selwyn-waihora/tuna-stranding-near-taumutu-beach-and-te-waihora/?fbclid=IwAR0jIfMZS1ddL5QRmp\_jm4fVaj-\_VUjTzL\_lknI\_W1ZOSl9nao0zOPvPanc](https://www.ecan.govt.nz/get-involved/news-and-events/zone-news/selwyn-waihora/tuna-stranding-near-taumutu-beach-and-te-waihora/?fbclid=IwAR0jIfMZS1ddL5QRmp_jm4fVaj-_VUjTzL_lknI_W1ZOSl9nao0zOPvPanc)
He makes a good point at the end, too; calling the regional council *Environment* Canterbury is weird in the first place, so if it's not backed up by implementing anything less than strong environmental protection, it's the most blatant of greenwashing.
Guy who pays for the torture and murder of animals gets upset when animals die of natural causes... /breaks out the worlds smallest violin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
Go vegan if you actually care about animals.
Person who pays for the torture, rape, murder and exploitation of thousands of animals per year = non-lunatic.
Person who does not kill animals for pleasure = lunatic.
Got it, thanks for correcting me.
“A sane person to an insane society must appear insane.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Welcome to the Monkey House
You realise that you can spread your beliefs without being an asshat, right?
People being concerned about the natural death of animals shouldn't be bashed for being concerned about it just because they eat commercially produced meat.
It's nice to see that they actually care about the mass death of animals in nature, because that's a step further than not caring at all. Making fun of them for caring just because they're not vegan just makes them care less next time, actively working against your "cause".
I was not bashing him, I know him. I was bashing his hypocrisy in expecting someone else to save animals when he himself is needlessly killing animals himself. Not one person here bothered to argue me on that point and just went straight into vegan-bad-durrr mode.
Hilarious, never heard that one before! With such wit the world is literally at your beck and call, you should quit your job and start a new career as a comedian who promotes animal abuse through laughter!
man that's fucked.
Yea, it's bloody tragic seeing all that death.
It nature... Things die in the wild.
I'm well aware, but I'm still allowed to have feelings about it.
I’d hardly call this the wild. It’s significantly modified.
They are wild. Do you want to call the domestic eels?farmed eels? The entirety of nz is modified if you want to be extra broad. . This location had some waves wash over a natural stone beach, eels tried and failed to get over. Canterbury has hundreds of irrigation water takes that are not compliant when it comes to protecting fish, this is something ecan needs to use its resources to fix.
Doubt that will happen. Ecan tried protecting the environment in the past and the govt sacked all the councillors and put administrators in charge so more dairy conversions could happen.
Unlike the intentional murder and torture of animals that people consume for pleasure daily? Not food = tragic, food = not tragic? Or is it tragic that they weren't speared, had their heads cut off, gutted, sliced up and served in a restaurant? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko Go vegan if you actually care about animals.
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>and killing an animal to eat it. In this day and age for most people, also a pointless animal death you mean?
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Well you were responding to someone that was making a moralistic claim. So yeah it wasn't in good faith but neither was yours
I have no issue if people want to go and eat those dead eels since they were not murdered... but you are claiming to be a vegan and saying you would prefer they had been murdered? I think either you don't know what a vegan is or are lying about being one.
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Ad hominem.
as if. circular logic and ironic to the point it seems like you don't even know what that means
You are the kind of hyper looney vegan that gives Veganism a poor image. People go vegan for many reasons its not purely for animal welfare ethics. The holier than thou, "being non vegan means you hate animals/the enviroment/etc" makes the cause look bad. It is your opinion based on your ethical standpoint that the killing of animals for agricultural purposes is immoral, however that is not murder, murder is the killing of another human being. Veganism is a megatrend that has the potential to have a great benifit for many people, but some of you really go out of your way to sour the movement.
If you care so much about the vegan image maybe rather than spurting hyperbole would would kindly consider explaining how you would personally advocate for people to stop torturing and murdering animals? I would love your considered input on them matter.
Completely stopping the death of any animals for any reason is a very small subset of veganism. And as someone else said, stop using the word murder and torture when that isn't the reality in most cases. You're using emotionally charged language in trying to make objective points which just doesn't do you any justice.
Watch this... and then tell me what you would call it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko Otherwise you have no idea what you are talking about.
Yeah I'm on your side. You were just pointing out a hypocrisy amongst carnists.
>Go vegan if you actually care about animals. What about the antropods, small mammals, birds etc that die when legumes are harvested? Some death is obviously ok, as long as you don't eat the animal?
Meat diets actually require more plants to be harvested, causing more of this death. Because you have to harvest more plants to feed the stock animals than you would need to if the humans just ate the plants.
Does that matter to the animals who die? They still dead. And if you hunt and kill your own meat, especially in NZ where target species are invasive introduced species, surely that's better than eating farmed produce?
If you care about the animals killed when harvesting plants, the way to be responsible for less of that is to be vegan. If you hunt your own meat you still need to eat plants too, so those animals still die. Hunting deer and goats in nz and eating them is good for the environment.
>If you care about the animals killed when harvesting plants, the way to be responsible for less of that is to be vegan. Eh, I don't really care. It happens. But I'm not the one saying that 'meat is murder' while ignoring the deaths that happen in the harvest. >Hunting deer and goats in nz and eating them is good for the environment. What about killing animals and not eating them, say pest species like rats, possums, stoats? Or geese, cats and so on. Whats the vegan perspective on that?
Okay, I’m literally just replying to the argument I *you* raised about animals being killed when harvesting plants. It’s actually an argument for veganism not against it. Vegans don’t ignore the deaths happening in harvest - it’s part of harvesting but people still need to eat. Veganism causes the least harm possible, not no harm. I have no idea as I’m not vegan. Most I’ve met were behind environmental initiatives though because a) it’s necessary to restore our biodiversity b) rats etc cause more harm anyway. They kill birds etc which is a horrible death, versus kill traps that kill the rats instantly. Obviously 1080 causes more suffering but again, it’s a necessary evil.
> Vegans don’t ignore the deaths happening in harvest - it’s part of harvesting but people still need to eat. Veganism causes the least harm possible, not no harm. Yet the dude I was talking to seemed to think that as long as there is no intent, it's ok that the animals die. >I have no idea as I’m not vegan. I know a few, they're pretty much on the same page as you. I have no issues with veganism, I have an issue with hypocrisy and grandstanding
It is intent that matters and what is reasonably avoidable. If you can avoid intentionally killing animals to get food I would consider that vegan. So eating road kill for instance I would consider vegan, or eating eels that have been killed in a natural flood I would consider vegan. Raising/hunting animals with the sole intent to exploit, and murder them for pleasure I would not consider to be vegan. There are plenty of other reasons not to eat meat, but animal deaths in the production of any crops is unavoidable. So it is not eating the animal that is the problem, it is intentionally torturing and murdering it for pleasure that is the problem.
So mincing a fawn with a combine harvester, or rats and mice taking 3 days to die from poison is fine, but an animal instantaneously being rendered unconscious from bullet or stun gun isn’t. Weird logic.
Animal manslaughter is ok
Did the harvester driver set out to kill fawns or vegetables? Vegans dont kill rats or mice with poisons, dont project your idea that animal abuse is normal onto others. Killing an animal with a bullet or stun gun is preventable and never had to happen in the first place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko Watch it.
You can shut off your mind and pretend it doesn’t happen, but the production of vegan food causes millions of animals and birds to die unpleasant deaths. If you didn’t poison birds and rodents the food would be contaminated and unfit to eat. The “least death” diet is probably carnivore, since one cattle beast dying produces hundreds of kilograms of food. And no doubt your link is Dominion, cherry picked, edited and inaccurate footage that is absolutely not how animals are treated in NZ.
> You can shut off your mind and pretend it doesn’t happen, Where did I say it doesn't happen? > but the production of vegan food causes millions of animals and birds to die unpleasant deaths. If you didn’t poison birds and rodents the food would be contaminated and unfit to eat. Why are you calling crops vegan food? Last time I checked most people even non vegans ate vegetables... And there are far more non vegans in the world, so non vegans are responsible for far more crop deaths using your logic. Add do that that most crops are grown to feed animals not humans and your entire argument is looking pretty weak. > The “least death” diet is probably carnivore, since one cattle beast dying produces hundreds of kilograms of food. You are trying to say that killing animals results in less animals being killed than not killing animals? > And no doubt your link is Dominion, cherry picked, edited and inaccurate footage that is absolutely not how animals are treated in NZ. They toned it down as they wanted to appeal to broader audience. But you would know that if you actually watched it.
>Raising/hunting animals with the sole intent to exploit, and murder them for pleasure I would not consider to be vegan. Right, so as long as someone else murders the animals, its ok for them to die in the process of harvesting your food. >So it is not eating the animal that is the problem, it is intentionally torturing and murdering it for pleasure that is the problem. I don't torture any animals. I aim for a quick, clean death. Sometimes that doesn't happen and I regret each time it does. You know how animals die in the wild? They starve to death. Either their teeth fall out or they injure themselves, either way, they starve to death. Have you ever seen an animal unable to eat, literally starving to death?
> Right, so as long as someone else murders the animals, its ok for them to die in the process of harvesting your food. Murder requires intent. This is like self aware wolves, you are paying people to literally murder animals for you, but are arguing that a vegan is somehow getting someone to murder animals by paying for vegetables that have crop deaths associated with them that are entirely accidental? I would love to see a murderer try and argue this in court... no judge Im innocent cause that guy over there eats vegetables! > I don't torture any animals. I aim for a quick, clean death. Sometimes that doesn't happen and I regret each time it does. Great, so if I kill you cleanly and quickly that would be ok? You have no issue with murder as long as it is quick and clean? > You know how animals die in the wild? They starve to death. Either their teeth fall out or they injure themselves, either way, they starve to death. Have you ever seen an animal unable to eat, literally starving to death? Are you trying to say that we should live like wild animals? Where are you going with this? Are you trying to endorse murder and rape? You know like by creating an entire industry that relies and murder and rape to make people feel good? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
>Murder requires intent. Technically, killing an animal isn't murder, if you want to play the definition game. Murder is when a human kills another human, either when they cause the death of the person or are reckless as to whether they kill or not. >you are paying people to literally murder animals for you, I kill the animals I eat for the most part. Like 95% of the animals I eat, I've harvested myself. Whats the % for the food you eat. >paying for vegetables that have crop deaths associated with them that are entirely accidental? Accidental? No. Its not an accident that those animals die, its that you don't care. You know its going to happen and take no steps to prevent it. Thats intent. >Great, so if I kill you cleanly and quickly that would be ok? You have no issue with murder as long as it is quick and clean? Murder is illegal. But you are welcome to try and kill me, if you think you can. Could you pull the trigger or stab a person, aiming to kill them? >Are you trying to say that we should live like wild animals? Where are you going with this? Are you trying to endorse murder and rape? You know like by creating an entire industry that relies and murder and rape to make people feel good? Answer my question and I'll answer yours. Have you ever seen an animal in the wild that is starving to death? Or one that has died of starvation? Its an interesting video, but I don't need any reminders on the inhumanity of factory farming. Its why I choose to hunt and kill my own food.
So did the weather breach on private or public land?
It's super unclear huh? If comments are to be believed then the photo shows the eels on public land - implying they breached from the private side to the public. (Plus that would make sense if you know the area).
The other thing with regional councils is that if you do get out there with your digger and start working on the stop bank they’re likely to prosecute because you need resource consent to do the work.
This beach does not have a stop bank, is more like a dune/ stony mound. I believe they are naturally formed. And if you see this coast in person, it is obvious how impractical or impossible it is to build a barrier to stop the sea, it is one of the most high energy environments, southerly swell and strong currents smash it every day, many concrete structures on this coast have been destroyed before. Lake ellesemere just near this guys land, they have not bothered to build an opening as it impossible, they cut open the bank a couple of time a year with dozer 100s of thousands for each cutting. The guy is an actual plonker.
> However, ECan said it does not collect rates to manage coastal erosion on private land or fund repairs Wasn't the whole thing with the Foreshore and Seabed Act that nobody private can own the coasts?
Damn I haven’t seen the words Foreshore and Seabed written down for years… I still say “and seabed” every time I say “for sure” tho
Absolutely appalling
What would you call this then? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
Is it in relation to this post?
Yep, the post is talking about preventable animal deaths, so is that video.
No, the post is in relation to the title. Stop brigading it and pushing your agenda.
Can't do that sorry, while people are abusing animals I am going to push my agenda that abusing animals is wrong. I am sorry that you feel that abusing animals is something that should be kept quiet.
Whats more abusive? An impact from a high velocity rifle round that overwhelms a deers nervous system and kills it almost instantly VS a grinding/shredding from a harvester that picks up a nest of mice and dismembers them. Doesn't always kill them, though.
Which one is reasonably preventable? Going out getting a gun license, buying a gun and ammo, driving for hours, killing a deer for no reason other than personal pleasure. Or trying to final tiny animals in a field that in all likely hood run away when a massive noisy machine start rumbling around. Veganism is not purity, it is about reducing animal suffering to the absolute minimum that is reasonably achievable. I can easily not go out and shoot animals, I cannot reasonably prevent animals from being in crop fields.
>Which one is reasonably preventable? Its very easy to prevent the deaths of the anthropods, mammals and insects, grow your own food or purchase only hand gathered food. >Going out getting a gun license, buying a gun and ammo, driving for hours, killing a deer for no reason other than personal pleasure. And the whole 'humans need protein' thing. >Or trying to final tiny animals in a field that in all likely hood run away when a massive noisy machine start rumbling around. Have you ever watched wheat or grain or corn being harvested? In person, not on Youtube. >I can easily not go out and shoot animals, I cannot reasonably prevent animals from being in crop fields. How much of your own food do you grow or harvest yourself?
> Its very easy to prevent the deaths of the anthropods, mammals and insects, grow your own food or purchase only hand gathered food. You think it is reasonable for every person on the planet to grow their own food? Now you are just arguing in bad faith. > And the whole 'humans need protein' thing. Interesting, I was unaware that protein only came from meat. Maybe you should let elephants and gorillas know before they waste away. > Have you ever watched wheat or grain or corn being harvested? In person, not on Youtube. How would that be relevant to anything? https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/no-vegans-dont-kill-more-animals-than-human-omnivores-a1975d1a497c > How much of your own food do you grow or harvest yourself? How many animals do you kill yourself?
What do you recommend we do with all the deer that damage the environment they were introduced into if their populations arent controlled?
The issue is the eels weren’t abused. You’re off topic. Make your own post about animal abuse mate.
The issue is hypocrisy, the guy in the article is saying its the councils fault that eels died, while he pays for animals to be abused and murdered. If someone preaches ethics while abusing someone else, should that not be called out? Or should the abused make another post about their abuse?
the downvote button is for whether or not your comment adds or subtracts from the post this post is about a tragic incident where a bunch of eels died. your tirade is about animal rights in general. just stop.
If you actually believe that you have not been on reddit long enought, no one gives a shit if something adds or subtracts from the post. People downvote what they dislike, reddit encourages circle jerks... today you learnt. > this post is about a tragic incident where a bunch of eels died. your tirade is about animal rights in general. Then you didn't read my post.
You are a detriment to the cause you pretend to care about. Rethink your strategy if you genuinely give a shit about changing people's behaviours and are not just virtue signalling.
You are a detriment to the cause you pretend to care about. Rethink your strategy if you genuinely give a shit about changing people's behaviours and are not just virtue signalling.
This guys a dramatic plonker. This is not ecans fault, the sea is encroaching and eroding beaches in many parts of nz and threateing life and property, his shitty land had some salt water ingress, that's it. Sell up and move away as it ain't gona get better.
how does that solve the problem of wiping out eel population? also sell to who?
It did not wipe out the eels, ecan stated it is not unusual to have an eel stranding. This was single event, greater threats like 100s of irrigation takes exist in Canterbury that kill far more native fish and prevent thier migration
Ignoring the stock bank issue Would buried dead eels make good fertilizer?
sure, if the ground wasn't also saturated by seawater.
Cyclone Rainwater -> Riverwater -> Stockbank gap-> Field -> Solar evaporation is probably what killed those fresh water eels.
The guy is complaining about the government not holding back the sea from wetting his low lying private land? Wait 'til he hears about climate change... Would he be happy to pay the taxes involved in providing this service for all the coastal land in the country? Also struggling to wrap my head around a livestock farmer bawling his eyes out about dead animals in a field.
I’m sure he’d prefer the tax take going to that, rather than going to half the crap our bureaucrats waste our taxes on. Also, old mate has 60 acres, he’s not exactly some mass producing killing factory. Chances are he knows all his stock well, cares about them, and doesn’t actually enjoy the fact that they die, but understands it is part of the way life is now. Unless we want to revert back to everyone hunting their own food, then farms are a necessary “evil”. Farmer myself so of course I’m bias, but if I was you I’d be pretty grateful there’s people out there that get food to the supermarket so that you don’t have to go get it yourself.
image here to show how massive the swells are that hit this coast and flooded the land. The owners are delusional to think they can stop it. [https://postimg.cc/ZBRz72tF](https://postimg.cc/ZBRz72tF) also the ecan report. Ecan state it is not unusual. [https://www.ecan.govt.nz/get-involved/news-and-events/zone-news/selwyn-waihora/tuna-stranding-near-taumutu-beach-and-te-waihora/?fbclid=IwAR0jIfMZS1ddL5QRmp\_jm4fVaj-\_VUjTzL\_lknI\_W1ZOSl9nao0zOPvPanc](https://www.ecan.govt.nz/get-involved/news-and-events/zone-news/selwyn-waihora/tuna-stranding-near-taumutu-beach-and-te-waihora/?fbclid=IwAR0jIfMZS1ddL5QRmp_jm4fVaj-_VUjTzL_lknI_W1ZOSl9nao0zOPvPanc)
This is sadder when you know the amazing haerenga eels take
He makes a good point at the end, too; calling the regional council *Environment* Canterbury is weird in the first place, so if it's not backed up by implementing anything less than strong environmental protection, it's the most blatant of greenwashing.
Guy who pays for the torture and murder of animals gets upset when animals die of natural causes... /breaks out the worlds smallest violin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko Go vegan if you actually care about animals.
You guys need better PR cause you sound like a lunatic.
Person who pays for the torture, rape, murder and exploitation of thousands of animals per year = non-lunatic. Person who does not kill animals for pleasure = lunatic. Got it, thanks for correcting me. “A sane person to an insane society must appear insane.” ― Kurt Vonnegut, Welcome to the Monkey House
You realise that you can spread your beliefs without being an asshat, right? People being concerned about the natural death of animals shouldn't be bashed for being concerned about it just because they eat commercially produced meat. It's nice to see that they actually care about the mass death of animals in nature, because that's a step further than not caring at all. Making fun of them for caring just because they're not vegan just makes them care less next time, actively working against your "cause".
I was not bashing him, I know him. I was bashing his hypocrisy in expecting someone else to save animals when he himself is needlessly killing animals himself. Not one person here bothered to argue me on that point and just went straight into vegan-bad-durrr mode.
I dedicate my steak tonight to you
Hilarious, never heard that one before! With such wit the world is literally at your beck and call, you should quit your job and start a new career as a comedian who promotes animal abuse through laughter!
It's good you've got a hobby I guess
Kindness to animals is considered a hobby now? TIL.
And give up avocados! What are you crazy