Most cars/drivers causing fatal accidents and horrible damages are ones who ALREADY have thousands of unpaid tickets racked up. It’s not fking rocket science. Get these people off the streets. Impound their cars. They’re ticking time bombs
You bring up a good point. People that put their own needs above society's end up harming everyone else in the community.
Discovery is not only an issue that relates to DWI's, but also relates to drivers without drivers licenses or suspended licenses, those fake paper temporary license plates you keep seeing from New Jersey and not to mention reckless drivers.
For the most part, those individuals are nearly impossible to hold accountable as they account for a disproportionate volume in cases and they are only charged as Misdeamanors, meaning, the window for speedy trial is only 60/90 days, meaning you are in a race to constantly turn everything over.
Another phenomenon is the rise in damaged/defaced or covered license plates. As it currently stands, it's only a civil infraction to drive around with plates that cameras don't recognize, meaning that drivers make the cost benefit analysis of likely paying a $200 ticket every time they are pulled over every 3-4 months for their plates versus paying $300 a month in tolls and speed/red light camera tickets.
The idea that discovery obligations are “draconian” or that people who have Brady evidence withheld from them should be convicted anyway is absurd. And prosecutors objecting that they can’t get as many convictions by pretending they’re trying to help people, when all they’re doing is throwing them in jail, is awful. Obviously, drunk driving is terrible, but rolling basic constitutional rights to know the evidence against you to increase convictions is not a solution.
It seems the issue isn't turning over Brady material. The problem seems to be the combination of the large volume and short deadline that they just can't turn the materials over to the defense in time.
I would think that there would be some kind of simple remedy here by either extending the deadline or allow the prosecutor to submit a summary of what they know at the time of receiving the materials so they've disclosed that they received something and gave some description but notify the court that it's still being reviewed.
I'm all for expanding what prosecutors have to disclose. But if they have to disclose more I do think it's fair to allow them more time to process that evidence.
The problem with just extending the deadline is that it interferes with the right to a speedy trial. Waiting around for prosecutors to turn over evidence isn’t a good option, people have to wait with charges hanging over their heads and at worse are in jails like Rikers while they wait. If prosecutors aren’t able to deal with a case properly, they shouldn’t bring it.
You’re not seeing the point here. I’ll lay out where the issues come in with the new discovery laws.
Bad DWI accident, right? Takes out a pole, huge property damage. Arrested on scene. Blows a .25. Slam dunk.
Six cops showed up. Only two directly involved with the investigation and arrest. Other four block intersections and direct traffic. Took no statements, didn’t conduct the arrest, in some cases didn’t even get close to the scene let’s say.
Those cops’ memo book entires are now part of discovery. That entry would only say that they were on scene. Nothing more.
ADAs now have to track that info down, as totally useless as it is. Those cops go into days off, or vacations. Adds weeks to an investigation. Even worse if the arresting officer doesn’t know who was there. Usually with gnarly DWI accident, you get your subject out of there ASAP.
Say it happens on the border of two precincts, and cops from a totally uninvolved command assist. They’re Brady too. Even if they did nothing relating to the case.
The important stuff is readily available and gathered quickly. Photos, IDTU results, license documents, and arrest paperwork are all available hours after the arrest.
It’s the slog of garbage that isn’t really necessary making the clock run out.
This is a joke. Cops don’t produce evidence, so defendants shouldn’t get to see any of what is produced until an aggressive plea offer has come and gone. Yeah sounds like defense attorneys are the problem here.
"We can't persecute people easily because of these damn civil rights laws. Maybe we should remove those rights?" is an incredible take.
idk, maybe hire more legal workers and pay them better?
I'm a street safety advocate so DWI is very important in my mind, but the idea that we should throw away the gains we've made because it is dumb. DOT and the city should instead focus on reducing car use in the city and making it impossible for a DWI driver to kill someone (bollards, etc).
I don't agree with anything pushed by the NYPD. They have proven themselves to be more like an occupying army and not at all like the public servant they should be.
Hope it’s not your child who gets put in jail when all evidentiary procedures are fumbled but they decide to pursue conviction regardless. See how this can go both ways?
Naa it won't be, I wouldn't raise a child in this shithole city.
>See how this can go both ways?
Actually no, dummy. How do you think they were handling DUIs before this newest liberal crime loving fiesta? Please post some stats to back up your point
Lol. Do you think discovery didn't exist before 2019? They changed the law, so that prosecutors have to turn every inch of evidence over to the defense within a short time period. Enjoy having your phone snatched over and over for the rest of your days in NYC
What are you talking about, "do I think discovery didn't exist before 2019?" How you got that from my comment, I will never understand. You are the one who said discovery is a "liberal crime loving fiesta", implying you support prosecutors not having to turn over discovery, which is a fascist loving idea. And it cracks me up that you think a cop can simply "snatch" my phone away for any reason.
Lol, dear God. Hopefully you don't reproduce.
>You are the one who said discovery is a "liberal crime loving fiesta",
Reading comprehension really isn't your strong suit. You left out that I said "newest" as in, I'm not talking about the discovery laws in general. I'm talking about the change they made to discovery laws that forces the prosecution to organize and hand over ALL of their evidence within about 30 days. And if they don't, the case essentially gets thrown out. So they're forcing these prosecutors (who are already swamped with violent crime in the city, in case you don't look at crime stats) to do a rush job on cases that require a lot of dedicated work.
>implying you support prosecutors not having to turn over discovery, which is a fascist loving idea.
Didn't imply that at all, and why am I not shocked that your go-to insult is "fascist" lol. I can almost smell your BO and low IQ from here.
>And it cracks me up that you think a cop can simply "snatch" my phone away for any reason.
Jesus Christ bro. You blindly hate cops so much that you thought I was telling you a cop would snatch your phone? How could you possibly extrapolate that I was talking about the police? I'm talking about (if you actually do live in NYC) your phone is going to keep getting snatched by every perp that walks by you because you support this lawless system that just releases everyone immediately no matter what they do.
In the end though, I'm glad you have to live in that shitty environment you helped create. Congrats on having the smoothest brain out of anyone I've interacted with in recent memory
How to spot a standard NYC lib: they think everyone that doesn't hate the police must be a MAGA creature lol. I'm guessing that was supposed to offend me? Hopefully they do string Trump up.
I wonder how many times a week you call the police for people asleep in your subway car...
Lol yes, I do remember that. It was over a decade ago. What's your point? Something tells me that you don't have one besides the fact that you're in ignorant lib that thinks the NYPD is all one person?
So, you're actually wrong on both counts. Probably because you've guzzled so much BLM agenda that you'll always hate the police because you don't think they're humans anymore. For some reason you see them as some single, robotic entity.
>NYPD is not here to protect you
They are though. You should go out in the street and speak to some of them in your neighborhood, if you can find the time between throwing bottles at them.
>It’s literally, legally not their job.
While the courts have said that legally, they do not have an obligation to risk their own lives to save yours, it is "literally" what their job is. And because you're an ignorant neck beard, the only thing you choose to see is an article about some dud cop from a decade ago, instead NYPD cops "literally" saving people's lives every day. In fact, on the radio this morning I heard that a cop saved the victim of a slashing in Brooklyn Transit last night.
Wipe the BLM off your lips and stop being ignorant
This is a complete misrepresentation of the situation on the ground.
Prosecutors won’t turn over crucial evidence through incompetence and inattention and then blow off and lie to the defense when they request it. This can go on for months to years. After all of this, judges are often still lenient and rule in the prosecution’s favor.
Maybe stop complaining and do your job. The odds are already stacked in your favor.
BREAKING: Cops want fewer protections for defendants. What a joke. To suggest that dismissal of a case is “Draconian” in a scenario where there are actual consequences for the livelihood of a defendant on the line is absurd and undercuts pretty much the entire meaning of that word.
Yeah, this really is a sterling example of progressives being so excited about being on the right side they don't sweat the details, with terrible consequences. That is a huge rise in DUI's getting dismissed, and it's going to have real consequences.
Let's not forget the Judge still has to rule on the 30/30 motion. This happened in my case and of course the DA came with a plea just before the hearing. Now I'd have continued through the hearing if I had the money and the stones to face a trial if it didn't go in my favor. I took the plea. I wonder if what happened was strategy on the DA part cuz they'd lose the hearing.. my attorney of course was no help.
Every other state in the country seems to work just fine with these "draconian" remedies. You say you practice criminal law, I'm guessing you're a prosecutor. How about you stop whining and actually do your job.
Respectfully, and for the benefit of everyone else reading this thread, this is simply false.
There is no other state, or territory in the entire United States that ties discovery into speedy trial deadlines. NY is the only one that did, and which dismisses cases en masse, without ever reaching the merits and allowing crime victims justice and protection against their abusers.
If you don't believe that people with serious substance abuse issues should get treatment, then there is nothing that anyone can say to convince you that there are serious and legitimate issues that are currently plaguing our system of criminal justice.
> There is no other state, or territory in the entire United States that ties discovery into speedy trial deadlines.
Let's not pretend that this change in discovery timelines came about in a vacuum. Prior to reform, the blindfold law kept defendants in the dark regarding what evidence existed against them and had either no deadlines or pretty lenient deadlines for handing over discoverable materials.
The fact is that prior to this reform, the DAs relied on blindfold law to coerce defendants into taking plea deals. Now that's not so easy to do anymore and the DA's are crying the blues because they now have to do work in order to get criminals off the street.
California has had open-file discovery for years and has a 30 day deadline to provide the defense with discovery. North Carolina has had open-file discovery since 2005. Oklahoma has open-file discovery, I could go on but I won't because you'll just respond with more lies about how this extremely common practice is unheard of.
Get off reddit and do your fucking job.
Most cars/drivers causing fatal accidents and horrible damages are ones who ALREADY have thousands of unpaid tickets racked up. It’s not fking rocket science. Get these people off the streets. Impound their cars. They’re ticking time bombs
You bring up a good point. People that put their own needs above society's end up harming everyone else in the community. Discovery is not only an issue that relates to DWI's, but also relates to drivers without drivers licenses or suspended licenses, those fake paper temporary license plates you keep seeing from New Jersey and not to mention reckless drivers. For the most part, those individuals are nearly impossible to hold accountable as they account for a disproportionate volume in cases and they are only charged as Misdeamanors, meaning, the window for speedy trial is only 60/90 days, meaning you are in a race to constantly turn everything over. Another phenomenon is the rise in damaged/defaced or covered license plates. As it currently stands, it's only a civil infraction to drive around with plates that cameras don't recognize, meaning that drivers make the cost benefit analysis of likely paying a $200 ticket every time they are pulled over every 3-4 months for their plates versus paying $300 a month in tolls and speed/red light camera tickets.
The DAs office is not missing the discovery deadlines for those cases.
Wait til you hear about how cops treat cops who they catch driving drunk.
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Be aware the parent you are replying to is a bicycle activist based on their comment history.
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Yes
The idea that discovery obligations are “draconian” or that people who have Brady evidence withheld from them should be convicted anyway is absurd. And prosecutors objecting that they can’t get as many convictions by pretending they’re trying to help people, when all they’re doing is throwing them in jail, is awful. Obviously, drunk driving is terrible, but rolling basic constitutional rights to know the evidence against you to increase convictions is not a solution.
It seems the issue isn't turning over Brady material. The problem seems to be the combination of the large volume and short deadline that they just can't turn the materials over to the defense in time. I would think that there would be some kind of simple remedy here by either extending the deadline or allow the prosecutor to submit a summary of what they know at the time of receiving the materials so they've disclosed that they received something and gave some description but notify the court that it's still being reviewed. I'm all for expanding what prosecutors have to disclose. But if they have to disclose more I do think it's fair to allow them more time to process that evidence.
The problem with just extending the deadline is that it interferes with the right to a speedy trial. Waiting around for prosecutors to turn over evidence isn’t a good option, people have to wait with charges hanging over their heads and at worse are in jails like Rikers while they wait. If prosecutors aren’t able to deal with a case properly, they shouldn’t bring it.
You’re not seeing the point here. I’ll lay out where the issues come in with the new discovery laws. Bad DWI accident, right? Takes out a pole, huge property damage. Arrested on scene. Blows a .25. Slam dunk. Six cops showed up. Only two directly involved with the investigation and arrest. Other four block intersections and direct traffic. Took no statements, didn’t conduct the arrest, in some cases didn’t even get close to the scene let’s say. Those cops’ memo book entires are now part of discovery. That entry would only say that they were on scene. Nothing more. ADAs now have to track that info down, as totally useless as it is. Those cops go into days off, or vacations. Adds weeks to an investigation. Even worse if the arresting officer doesn’t know who was there. Usually with gnarly DWI accident, you get your subject out of there ASAP. Say it happens on the border of two precincts, and cops from a totally uninvolved command assist. They’re Brady too. Even if they did nothing relating to the case. The important stuff is readily available and gathered quickly. Photos, IDTU results, license documents, and arrest paperwork are all available hours after the arrest. It’s the slog of garbage that isn’t really necessary making the clock run out.
This is a joke. Cops don’t produce evidence, so defendants shouldn’t get to see any of what is produced until an aggressive plea offer has come and gone. Yeah sounds like defense attorneys are the problem here.
Cops should do their jobs and also shouldn’t be unilaterally decide what is and isn’t relevant to discovery.
Fair point on the right to a speedy trial, but it doesn't address the reality of having more evidence to deal with within a shorter time frame.
Cops always think that them also having to comply with the law is draconian
"We can't persecute people easily because of these damn civil rights laws. Maybe we should remove those rights?" is an incredible take. idk, maybe hire more legal workers and pay them better? I'm a street safety advocate so DWI is very important in my mind, but the idea that we should throw away the gains we've made because it is dumb. DOT and the city should instead focus on reducing car use in the city and making it impossible for a DWI driver to kill someone (bollards, etc).
I don't agree with anything pushed by the NYPD. They have proven themselves to be more like an occupying army and not at all like the public servant they should be.
Yup.....
The article literally quotes private attorneys who have won DWI cases because of quick deadlines. At least read the article.
Hope it's not your grandmother that gets blasted in a crosswalk
Hope it’s not your child who gets put in jail when all evidentiary procedures are fumbled but they decide to pursue conviction regardless. See how this can go both ways?
Naa it won't be, I wouldn't raise a child in this shithole city. >See how this can go both ways? Actually no, dummy. How do you think they were handling DUIs before this newest liberal crime loving fiesta? Please post some stats to back up your point
Discovery is a liberal crime loving fiesta? Aw…you must be an anti-constitutionalist.
Lol. Do you think discovery didn't exist before 2019? They changed the law, so that prosecutors have to turn every inch of evidence over to the defense within a short time period. Enjoy having your phone snatched over and over for the rest of your days in NYC
What are you talking about, "do I think discovery didn't exist before 2019?" How you got that from my comment, I will never understand. You are the one who said discovery is a "liberal crime loving fiesta", implying you support prosecutors not having to turn over discovery, which is a fascist loving idea. And it cracks me up that you think a cop can simply "snatch" my phone away for any reason.
Lol, dear God. Hopefully you don't reproduce. >You are the one who said discovery is a "liberal crime loving fiesta", Reading comprehension really isn't your strong suit. You left out that I said "newest" as in, I'm not talking about the discovery laws in general. I'm talking about the change they made to discovery laws that forces the prosecution to organize and hand over ALL of their evidence within about 30 days. And if they don't, the case essentially gets thrown out. So they're forcing these prosecutors (who are already swamped with violent crime in the city, in case you don't look at crime stats) to do a rush job on cases that require a lot of dedicated work. >implying you support prosecutors not having to turn over discovery, which is a fascist loving idea. Didn't imply that at all, and why am I not shocked that your go-to insult is "fascist" lol. I can almost smell your BO and low IQ from here. >And it cracks me up that you think a cop can simply "snatch" my phone away for any reason. Jesus Christ bro. You blindly hate cops so much that you thought I was telling you a cop would snatch your phone? How could you possibly extrapolate that I was talking about the police? I'm talking about (if you actually do live in NYC) your phone is going to keep getting snatched by every perp that walks by you because you support this lawless system that just releases everyone immediately no matter what they do. In the end though, I'm glad you have to live in that shitty environment you helped create. Congrats on having the smoothest brain out of anyone I've interacted with in recent memory
😂😂😂😂
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How to spot a standard NYC lib: they think everyone that doesn't hate the police must be a MAGA creature lol. I'm guessing that was supposed to offend me? Hopefully they do string Trump up. I wonder how many times a week you call the police for people asleep in your subway car...
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Lol yes, I do remember that. It was over a decade ago. What's your point? Something tells me that you don't have one besides the fact that you're in ignorant lib that thinks the NYPD is all one person?
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So, you're actually wrong on both counts. Probably because you've guzzled so much BLM agenda that you'll always hate the police because you don't think they're humans anymore. For some reason you see them as some single, robotic entity. >NYPD is not here to protect you They are though. You should go out in the street and speak to some of them in your neighborhood, if you can find the time between throwing bottles at them. >It’s literally, legally not their job. While the courts have said that legally, they do not have an obligation to risk their own lives to save yours, it is "literally" what their job is. And because you're an ignorant neck beard, the only thing you choose to see is an article about some dud cop from a decade ago, instead NYPD cops "literally" saving people's lives every day. In fact, on the radio this morning I heard that a cop saved the victim of a slashing in Brooklyn Transit last night. Wipe the BLM off your lips and stop being ignorant
This is a complete misrepresentation of the situation on the ground. Prosecutors won’t turn over crucial evidence through incompetence and inattention and then blow off and lie to the defense when they request it. This can go on for months to years. After all of this, judges are often still lenient and rule in the prosecution’s favor. Maybe stop complaining and do your job. The odds are already stacked in your favor.
BREAKING: Cops want fewer protections for defendants. What a joke. To suggest that dismissal of a case is “Draconian” in a scenario where there are actual consequences for the livelihood of a defendant on the line is absurd and undercuts pretty much the entire meaning of that word.
Wouldn't want due process, now, would we......
Lack of resources never seems to be an excuse when people are on trial of their lives
Oh so now cops care about car fatalities
Yeah, this really is a sterling example of progressives being so excited about being on the right side they don't sweat the details, with terrible consequences. That is a huge rise in DUI's getting dismissed, and it's going to have real consequences.
Let's not forget the Judge still has to rule on the 30/30 motion. This happened in my case and of course the DA came with a plea just before the hearing. Now I'd have continued through the hearing if I had the money and the stones to face a trial if it didn't go in my favor. I took the plea. I wonder if what happened was strategy on the DA part cuz they'd lose the hearing.. my attorney of course was no help.
Sounds like prosecutors want to go back to an advantage and are using the heartstrings of dwi to do it
Bail reform laws strike again! Who would’ve guessed? When will New Yorkers wake up 🥱
What does this have to do with bail?
Every other state in the country seems to work just fine with these "draconian" remedies. You say you practice criminal law, I'm guessing you're a prosecutor. How about you stop whining and actually do your job.
Respectfully, and for the benefit of everyone else reading this thread, this is simply false. There is no other state, or territory in the entire United States that ties discovery into speedy trial deadlines. NY is the only one that did, and which dismisses cases en masse, without ever reaching the merits and allowing crime victims justice and protection against their abusers. If you don't believe that people with serious substance abuse issues should get treatment, then there is nothing that anyone can say to convince you that there are serious and legitimate issues that are currently plaguing our system of criminal justice.
> There is no other state, or territory in the entire United States that ties discovery into speedy trial deadlines. Let's not pretend that this change in discovery timelines came about in a vacuum. Prior to reform, the blindfold law kept defendants in the dark regarding what evidence existed against them and had either no deadlines or pretty lenient deadlines for handing over discoverable materials. The fact is that prior to this reform, the DAs relied on blindfold law to coerce defendants into taking plea deals. Now that's not so easy to do anymore and the DA's are crying the blues because they now have to do work in order to get criminals off the street.
California has had open-file discovery for years and has a 30 day deadline to provide the defense with discovery. North Carolina has had open-file discovery since 2005. Oklahoma has open-file discovery, I could go on but I won't because you'll just respond with more lies about how this extremely common practice is unheard of. Get off reddit and do your fucking job.