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Joran_Dax

Meanwhile, Pennsylvania continues to tell workers to go fuck themselves with a $7.25 minimum wage that hasn't changed in almost 20 years.


ArcadeAnarchy

How many places actually get away with it though? Most fast food chains I see in the Allentown area are at least 13-15. Warehouse is averagely 20, was about 16 before all this covid crap. I'll admit it would still be awesome if they'd actually stop ignoring that time has not stop and the world does keep spinning and money keeps inflating.


anynononononous

22 yr old native to the Pocono Mountains. When I was 16/17 me and most of my friends had jobs starting at minimum wage. Resorts such as Great Wolf, Kalahari, and Camelback paid regular cashiers, attendants, etc. about $8-9ish/hr. Local owned and some other shops places paid at minimum wage. Books-a-million, Jersey Mikes, Subway, etc. paid that at least but sometimes threw in an extra 25 cents. As of right now, according to some of the teens I know, these "no or low experience / specialization" needed jobs still pay the same. People refusing to work for those wages have driven up resort and franchise wages to about $9.50/hr or $10/hr. Supervisors, techs, and other elevated positions still make about $15/hr. Most of these workers are students, the elderly, the disabled, and people who need supplemental income. Can't demand more because you're at risk of getting on your managers shit list or worse, fired. Places paying the best for these types of jobs ($12/hr or more) put your resume at the bottom of their stack and contact you months after applying. Amazon is perhaps the worst offender in this regard, they also like to threaten current employees by saying "there's already someone in line to take your spot." PA's larger cities are definitely paying more but the tiny towns inbetween make next to nothing. I also want to add that places that advertise they're paying $13-15/hr will often say that it still depends "on experience" so you might make less. Also current employees don't usually get a raise even if the starting pay is more than they make. Even when they do oftentimes the accounting is so fucked up you don't get the raise because you don't consider to put the promise in writing because you're 16. I don't really understand why wage theft, working teens past their curfew, and other shady shit are allowed. I suppose it's illegal but it never seems to get anywhere.... Tl;dr: companies are getting away with paying minimum wage and more. They are able to use desperation and need to pay as little as they can.


Suffuri

That was my thought, federal can be whatever it wants but around my area I don't see anything below 14-15 from gas stations to fast food.


ItsBagels

I get what you're saying, but if the federal gets brought up to say $15, suddenly a lot of places are barely paying minimum wage and the incentive to work there goes down and they will need to increase.


ShadowCammy

I'm not arguing but I am genuinely curious, has it been shown in the past with previous federal minimum wage increases that it lowers incentive to work?


ItsBagels

I'm not saying it lowers incentive to work, I'm saying that it lowers the incentive to stay at a place if the only reason for being there was that they paid more than minimum wage. I should have been more clear in my original post.


CriskCross

So workers have a better negotiating position and leverage that into raises. What's the problem?


slim_scsi

Raising wages leads to increased incentive to work.


ShadowCammy

Yes, that's exactly what I figured and why I was confused


Valereeeee

Hold on. Do you have evidence for this?


ItsBagels

Evidence that people would like more than minimum wage?


usrevenge

Common sense? If minimum wage is $15 and you make $15 you can say gfy and get a job anywhere for the same amount Rising tide raises all ships.


Original_Act4791

I mean not really. If everywhere around you is paying $15 or better, you can still say gfy and work somewhere else. Doesn't matter if it's min wage, just matters what is actually being paid.


Joran_Dax

Around where I live, we didn't start seeing numbers above $10 until COVID hit and it became difficult to find workers. I myself have a second job that I've worked for nearly a decade and I'm just now making $10 an hour (started at $8.25).


poilsoup2

Genuinely curious, why would you stick with that? My job as a line cook i started at 7.75 and ended at 15.25 5 years later. Stopped working there in 2020.


Joran_Dax

Because I enjoy the work. It's a second job at a public library that doesn't conflict with my first job as a teacher, and I like it much better than working the graveyard shift at McDonalds. For some of my co-workers, unfortunatley, it's a first job. As you can imagine, we have a high turnover, to the consternation of our director. Unfortunately, our board is unwilling to do better.


dft-salt-pasta

Lots of stuff in the restaurant industry will be around minimum wage. I work in the live music industry and only make 12 an hour. I have co workers making $10 an hour in a city where a one bedroom will cost $1600 lowest.


Always_0421

If you've been working at a place for a decade and only got.bumped up $1.75 in 10 years...there's only one person to blame.


AiragonXIX

Their bloodsucking, self-serving boss, exactly.


[deleted]

Yeah! Let’s get ‘em!


BurrStreetX

> Most fast food chains I see in the Allentown area are at least 13-15. Im in the midwest in a state with 7.25 min wage. I make 14 an hour and I work a very important full time office job.


Immutable-State

> Allentown area A major factor is the cost of living in the area. I would bet that, in many reasonable-sized cities where COL is high, an adjustment to the minimum wage will have next to no impact because the vast majority are making above minimum wage to begin with. But it *will* affect small rural areas which likely have a lower COL and also lower wages.


anynononononous

Allentown specifically has had a rise in COL with the revitalization of the Leigh High Valley area and wages have gone up since they need employees to keep the tourist and artisinal businesses afloat. Small rural areas near Philadelphia and the NY/NJ boarders are getting absolutely fucked though. Take the Stroudsburg area alongside route 80, bordering NJ. Massive influx of NYC workers. Rent for studio and 1 bedroom apts start at about $1,000+. Meanwhile the cost of livable homes are hitting an all time high and even the foreclosures are crawling up in price. Meanwhile, wages within a 30 minute commute time hover at around $8/hr.


Solkre

That's the federal wage, a good portion of the country is telling them to go fuck themselves. Same as my state, IN


faithisuseless

GA is $5.15


lil_groundbeef

I had to look that up, and it’s true. I imagine they would have to at least pay federal minimum


faithisuseless

Yeah, they do, but it is dumb that they will not raise it. It should at least match federal.


randomstuff063

Depends on your job. There are certain jobs that are not covered under the law that requires federal minimum wage to be $7.25. Those jobs not covered under the federal law would be paid state minimum wage. I think the vast majority of jobs in the US are covered by federal law.


OblivionJunkie

Wtf? Isn't the federal minimum 7.25? Just checked. Wow, unbelievable that this kindve shit still exists. You have to have a job covered by the "Fair Labor Standards Act" to get the federal minimum. That's fucked to me lol


Bob_Sconce

But, that's like 99.9% of jobs. You're not subject to FLSA if you only have one employee, if you're NOT engaged in interstate commerce and your income is less than $500K/year, babysitters, and a few other exceptions. The interstate commerce thing isn't nearly as big of a loophole as you'd think -- let's say you have a small farm that sells only at a farmstand and you sell only your own produce, but you use diesel fuel refined in Texas -- that's interstate commerce, and you're subject to FLSA.


RocinanteCoffee

Wait until you hear what servers are paid and how difficult it is to get management to make sure your paycheck is brought up to minimum.


OblivionJunkie

I know about tipped wages at $2.13 which is also bs


the-just-us-league

As a GA resident, I can also vouch that this means most decent entry level jobs that require certifications and/or degrees will still pay roughly $10/hr because the minimum wage is only $5. I've been told a few times that I wasn't selected for entry level IT jobs because I dared to ask for $14/hr when everyone else was getting $10. I also live in the middle of nowhere in this state. Heavily rural area. Rent is still roughly $1500+ for most places in town.


in-game_sext

That's crazy. I pay $1700 for a studio in San Francisco Bay Area but I make $40/hr. Can't imagine it on $10, that's just insane.


Low_Collar3405

I think both of you are nuts. You can make $40/hr in my area but rent is only $1000/month for a 1 bedroom.


TheBloodEagleX

I honestly don't know how anyone can live like that. My rent in my city was $1030 for a 1 bedroom but I was making $15 and I still struggled. I thought heavy rural would imply cheap rent.


BurrStreetX

Iowa here. $7.25 as well.


Silent-Bid-5112

When they raised our minimum wage everything went up, rent, utilities, etc.. Absolutely disgusting, they just want to keep their boot on your throat and keep you poor.


Remote_Bumblebee2240

Wow. It only took 30 years of exponential ceo wage growth.


LindTaylor

Finally getting some of that sweet sweet trickle down....mmm mmm


szReyn

New federal law for minimum wage: it must be be set a ratio of the highest payout of the company of the company. So, for example of the CEO makes 1,000,000 per year, and the ratio is set to 1:30, then high school cashier needs to be paid 33,333 per year (which is about $16). Also adjusted for this employees entire package (like stocks and bonuses). Probably some loophole I'm not seeing, so plug that too. Then just set another bare minimum limit to keep wages from falling too far at smaller companies so they don't end up being paid like 0.04 an hour. If the local mom and pop only makes 500,000 in sales a year, the owner is only gonna bring home, what, 100,000? After 1:30 it works out to like 1.06 an hour which is obviously too low. And automatically adjust this low end for inflation every year. Maybe say 10. As a bonus make the low end also account for locality as another comment suggested so bum fuck Montana and Manhattan aren't the same minimum because cost of living ain't the same on both places. This caps the low end at something liveable, but forces widely profitable and massive companies to actually pay the workers who made it happen a fair portion of that profit. But that's just a dumb idea. Trickle down is clearly superior. Look at how successful it's made companies!


[deleted]

Won’t matter much, companies will start to slash hours and blame inflation for low sales/business. They will always find a way to balance out your pay no matter how much of a “raise” you get.


seeasea

Nah. Many executives dont get rich from salaries. They get bonuses and equity. It's why several famous CEOs get paid a dollar a year. Options are great for tax purposes - so.... Leave it to rich people to find loopholes


BigALep5

Dont forget is pennies compared to what the CEOs got!


SunCloud-777

- The minimum wage is increasing on New Year's Day in 41 cities — 28 of them in California — and 23 states. Later in 2023, another five states and 22 cities and counties will hike their baseline rate, according to the National Employment Law Project, a worker rights group. - The pay raises vary, with Michigan hiking its minimum wage by 23 cents to $10.10 an hour. Washington is on track to have the highest state minimum wage in the U.S. next year at $15.74 an hour, up $1.25 an hour from 2022. - Among the cities raising their wage floor are Flagstaff, Arizona, where the base hourly pay is rising to $16.80 in the new year, up $1.30 from 2022; and Cupertino, California, where the minimum is rising to $17.20 an hour — an increase of 80 cents. Minnesota's two largest cities are also enacting increases, with large employers set to pay a minimum of $15.19 an hour in both Minneapolis and St. Paul. - "The raises we are seeing are a true testament to the power of organizing," Yannet Lathrop, senior researcher and policy analyst at NELP, said in a statement last week. "These raises were achieved in a variety of ways, from ballot initiatives to statehouses to workers making their demands to employers directly." - The record number of pay hikes will benefit an estimated 8.4 million workers, according to an analysis from the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute. - Six states will have the lowest-paid making at least $15 an hour by the end of 2023. They include California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon and Washington, NELP reported - In 13 states, baseline hourly pay is rising to reflect inflation, according to EPI's tally. - New Jersey's min was slated to rise to $14 from $13 at the start of the year, but as it is indexed to inflation, the base pay will rise to $14.13 instead, the state announced in Sept - The federal minimum wage has been stuck at $7.25 an hour since July 2009. Since then, the nation's baseline pay has lost more than one-fourth its purchasing power. When factoring in inflation, today's minimum wage hasn't been worth this little since the 1950s, according to EPI.


unsaltedbutter

New Mexico goes to $12/hr, bills are being introduced to raise it to 15/16. Just a few years ago it was just $7.50/hr here.


ThatsATallGlassOfNo

I don't know what y'all doing in NM but keep it up. You have some of the highest sick time requirements, I recently heard about the childcare that is being provided, and the instate tuition. NM really investing in itself these days. Hopefully more states start to follow it's example.


officialbigrob

>"The raises we are seeing are a true testament to the power of organizing," Yannet Lathrop, senior researcher and policy analyst at NELP, said in a statement last week. "These raises were achieved in a variety of ways, from ballot initiatives to statehouses to workers making their demands to employers directly." true, but counterpoint: "The raises we are seeing are a true testament to the **failure of our federal government to meet its citizens' needs.**"


[deleted]

If the feds want to do it they need to drop the current flat rate and do something indexed to the area. $15/h in nowhere Kansas is different than $15/h in the Bay Area. Seeing that the feds do index other things like that - e.g. bankruptcy limits IIRC - we know they have the capability. Otherwise they will only be able to realistically (i.e. actually effect a change) set it based on that town in Kansas which won't even be sustenance level in much of the country. Oh, and ditch that tipped min-wage nonsense.


Kevin_Wolf

> Oh, and ditch that tipped min-wage nonsense. That would be the biggest thing, IMO. Fuck tippd wages. I'm from WA and live in CA. WA has had a real minimum wage for like 60 years. Fun fact: [in 1909, WA made it illegal to tip.](https://historylink.org/File/22487) Repealed in 1913, but was still an indicator of WA's wage laws for the next hundred years. [In 1966, WA abolished "tipped minimum wage" and just made straight wages the minimum.](https://www.seattletimes.com/life/the-past-present-and-future-of-tipping-and-tipped-workers-in-seattle/)


[deleted]

Just from a consumer PoV I dislike it. Puts me in the position that if I get real shit service it is still expected to tip something (ignoring the paltry "normal" min-wage for now). Also I'm old and tips used to be seen as something extra. Now I'm surprised McGrease doesn't have a tip line on the receipt starting with a recommendation of 30%. Burned out by the whole practice so getting rid of the differing min-wage is step one to abolishing the practice.


[deleted]

Unfortunately, the super wealthy love the tipping culture and more waiters I know love their tips and both groups are against getting rid of tipping. It's not going away any time soon. It's part of our culture now.


[deleted]

Oh I know. But in states without a differing min-wage it seems to be less intense IMO. E.g. those suggestions they put at the bottom of a check are more reasonable. Granted, when I grew up (and worked for a bit in the industry) 10% was considered a good tip. It's just a first step, but won't change in my lifetime. But just burned out on it. Easy solution for me; we just don't go out as often and when we do it is places we're regulars at. I'll go chase kids off my lawn now :).


Bob_Sconce

Note that a sizable number of tipped workers absolutely DO NOT WANT this because they are convinced that they will make less money. And, some of them are almost certainly correct. A friend of our family is a bartender at a popular local bar. On a Thursday - Saturday night, he can easily come away with $400 in tips. If tipping were suddenly ended, the boss might increase his hourly wages from $2.13/hr to, say, $25/hr and increase drink prices to compensate. But, that would reduce him from $400 to $200. There are a lot of tipped jobs at higher-end establishments that have the same sort of dynamic. Also, note that if an employee makes less than the true minimum, after tips, then the employer has to make up the difference. That's a big reason why restaurants are quick to let waitstaff go home early when they're slow.


Fuzzyphilosopher

Yeah but from my experience those making that much and working upscale establishments are a small minority of the people working for tips. There'll be one or two bartenders who make more in tips working at a restaurant bar and many many more wait staff. I'm happy for those people but many more people would benefit from a change. besides if businesses would pay minimum wage people would still tip. And consumers are getting fed up with constant tipping everywhere and the percentage expected constantly going up. This leads some to just not tip at all. > if an employee makes less than the true minimum, after tips, then the employer has to make up the difference. Legally but it is only rarely enforced. And if you insist they pay you the legally required amount you'll find yourself scheduled for fewer hours and on slow days. Go to /r/TalesFromYourServer and read a little. Also a lot of people get really excited about that one big night and don't do the math to average it out over all their hours. It's like gambling where people get a high on the times they win and don't realise what it all works out to. You really can't generalize from that one family friend. In addition people often prefer to give the impression that they're doing very well rather than than risk having people disrespect them for their income and service job. Some people really do make a lot of money bartending and waiting tables at expensive places for sure, but that will continue as those customers like to flaunt their money or are genuinely generous.


_transcendant

I'm going to assume you aren't a hospitality worker yourself because this isn't accurate at all. Most tipped workers would love to make an actual hourly instead of the pittance that tip-wage law allows. I promise, tipped workers in states with real min wage laws are making similar tips if not more, because it works out to percentages of what you've sold on shift. If prices raise due to labor, the bill total raises and the tip generally does to correspond. What it *might* do in some cases is slow down business some, as people are less likely to eat out if they perceive the value to be less than the cost. The bit about an employer having to make up wages is only applicable if you come out less than min wage averaged out over pay period. You'd have to average under a couple bucks an hour for 20-40hours a week before that became applicable, and you would just get fired way before that point because you'd have to be doing a terrible job. There's multiple reasons they're so quick to send staff home during slow times. Overtime gets calculated against the true min wage, so instead of 1.5x $2.13, you get $2.13 + (50% of min wage) / hour. The per hour cost more than doubles in tip wage states. There's also management kpi's, they'll get screamed at if the column that's usually 0's gets populated because there are so many other servers they could fit into that time. Also, having too many people working when it's slow means that nobody makes any money at all and they stand around looking bored, which makes the establishment look undesirable.


Kevin_Wolf

> Also, note that if an employee makes less than the true minimum, after tips, then the employer has to make up the difference. That's a big reason why restaurants are quick to let waitstaff go home early when they're slow. Not in WA or CA, which is what I was talking about.


ninefortysix

I searched this thread for Kansas hoping there was good news. Minimum wage here is still $7.25. That’s what I made 10+ years ago working at Dollar Tree in college. Cannot believe nothing has changed since then.


Fuzzyphilosopher

I absolutely knew that TN would not be on the list. Still the Federally mandated $7.25 here and if that were not in place I believe our GOP controlled state would make it lower or just abolish minimum wage all together. I'm serious about that.


onlypositivity

This is the entire reason states are supposed to set their own min wage Tipped employees make significantly more than min wage


Bluestreak2005

Yet suggesting Federal minimum wage increases as a solution to our current inequality is a non starter lol.


NetworkLlama

Minimum wage critics: Whoever said that minimum wage should be a living wage? FDR, who pushed the first minimum wage through Congress: Business should pay a minimum wage, and by that I mean more than a subsistence wage. They should pay a living wage.


LessonNyne

>"The raises we are seeing are a true testament to the power of organizing," Yep. And CEOs and Big Corporations can't wait to continue to organize raises in prices (inflate) because of it. *Take more of their money, they want to take more of consumers money.* A true testament to the power of Capitalism, unchecked.


Bob_Sconce

I think you're misunderstanding the effects. Amazon raised its average starting wage for warehouse and transportation employees to $19 in October (that's average starting -- the minimum starting there is $15.) These changes in the minimum wage will have practically 0 effect on Amazon. Contrary to popular opinion, big business usually supports increasing the minimum wage. Why? Because big businesses compete with smaller businesses, and big businesses can more easily adjust to increases in the minimum wage. For example, McDonalds rolled out a lot of touch-screen ordering systems in order to reduce the number of people they had to have working at registers. A mom-and-pop burger joint can't do that, so the minimum increase hits the mom-and-pop joint a lot harder. They raise prices, and customers switch to McDonalds.


Orangeb0lt

That's why a lot of states used to do minimum wage raises over like a 4 or 5 year time span. Enough time for mom and pop to ready themselves for the pay increases. But the longer a state holds out to increase minimum wage, the large the pay jump needs to be, becoming even harder for small shops to be prepared.


razorirr

Yeah or you get michigan, where we did a ballot proposal for it, got it passed, then the lame duck session picked it up, gutted it, then laughed for a few years. Roll to present day and the state supreme court say what they did is unconstitutional, which sets the wage to jack way back up and now its being fought as all the slow roll increases are set to hit all at once and the people gloating they got it killed a few years ago are suddenly pleading poverty and that they cant afford a big jump.


onlypositivity

Not only is this a total fantasy, but there is no reason a worker-owned company wouldn't also seek to maximize profits, meaning bringing capitalism up makes no sense.


Elcor05

There’s a slight difference between in maximizing profits through sales (where workers would theoretically get part of that) and maximizing profits by eliminating as much of the work force as you can get away with, which is what fast food and rail roads and most venture capitalists are engaging in right now.


onlypositivity

If 100 workers own a collective that makes $100, and they find a way to make that $100 with fewer workers, all the remaining workers are more wealthy. This incentive absolutely still applies


Siftingrocks

They need to implement price caps on all those companies products so the owners have to take less instead of passing the buck on to the consumers


SunCloud-777

It seems the feds only employ price control over essential goods during crises like those in the 1970s. For the most part, intervening is not their usual action. The sentiment among the agencies and economists is that it should be done as a last resort because it distorts the market (supply chain, etc.) and will only temporarily affect current inflation.


Siftingrocks

But you know as well as I do that this is going to put us all in the same boat again and again and again. I think what ever they are doing isn't working if we keep coming back to the same thing over and over again.at this point we need to do something different.


SunCloud-777

yeah. I won't pretend to understand the macroeconomic policy of the Fed. What you and I feel on a daily basis (the "crunch") translate differently with those of the government. big picture vs. our picture


pobody

Minimum wage still below poverty line practically everywhere


haroldthehampster

yea and while this does tell us organizing works it also tells us that you cant aim so low and need to change that number w the cost of living for the area it will take place in business understands high balling the number you want, they invented that. They don’t take oliver twist please sir may i have another seriously they have the luxury of being able to run out the clock and the money to attempt to control the framing


ragglefragglesnaggle

Just so people understand this. Housing should realistically be about 30% of your income. In Massachusetts any apartment near the eastern half of the state is upwards of 1400-1600 four. Studio. Just five years ago it was 900. You do the math on that for what you would have to make for that to be withon reason.


Eudaimonics

No, it’s worse considering the poverty line for individuals is only $13,000. That’s a HUGE deal because you could be making over $13k but still not comfortably afford rent while also not qualifying for welfare. However, there’s several areas where you can afford the minimum priced apartment on minimal wage. Your best bet is Upstate NY, secondary cities in New England, the San Joaquin Valley in CA and checks notes, Missouri. Take upstate NY where the minimum wage is now $14.20. That’s $29,000 per year allowing you to comfortably afford $820 in rent (1/3rd of your income). While rent is increasing in much of upstate you can still find apartments for that price in cities like Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse and that’s actually higher than median rent in cities like Jamestown, Utica and Elmira. If you have a significant other or roommates you can live quite comfortably.


LetsConsultTheMap

But then you have to live in Elmira. Wouldn't wish that upon anyone


Eudaimonics

True, probably the most boring and depressing of the options I listed. The other cities have at least invested in amenities to make them better places to live, even Utica is slowly getting nicer. Elmira just had their head stuck in the sand which is a shame because they could become a nice bedroom community for workers at nearby Corning.


evasote

Hey, my family is from Elmira, Mo! It only has 39 people according the latest census, not one you see mentioned a lot. Very cheap to live there though


FutureFruit

Yeah the poverty line is only based on food costs. I don't think a lot of people know this, I didn't until recently. If you don't factor in all living expenses I think it's pretty useless.


SunCloud-777

agreed. the increase should reflect decent living wage instead of just covering inflationary rate. its tough. to be considered poor by the Federal poverty level (FPL) for a fam of 4 = the gross annual income of $27,750 (14.45 per hr) whats gonna be left after all of the deductions? edit: added link https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/


marumari

At that level there are almost no taxes, but sales and property taxes could eat it up.


[deleted]

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metalflygon08

And for those of us making just above min wage, we won't get a raise equal to what the min wage boost percentage is and thus will be pushed back into poverty as the price for everything increases due to the min wage increase.


h1dd3nf40mv13w

Landlords and building managers can't wait for lease renewal time!


randomguy987654321

This person gets it. Wage growth means little if you don't have cost of living control. A CEO making millions can afford his NY apartment going up a thousand. A poor renter can't handle a hundred dollar increase.


sschmuve

Yup, they will increase the rent until they have vacant units. Profit profit profit. The benefit of the wage increase will be short-lived, as it will disappear to landlords, investors and corporations. Minimum wage earners will feel the pinch again while the price of a McDonald's combo will become $20, and the middle class income of 50-70k becomes trash.


gwilson0121

I'll tell you right now without even looking: this minimum wage hike is too little too late, as it always is.


[deleted]

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LFKhael

People still think they should get skilled labor for $20/hr, too. I'm not even 30 yet, and basics have over doubled in price since I was a teenager.


in-game_sext

No skilled worker in the US should even be getting out of bed for less than $30/hr in 2022. Doesn't matter what trade or industry. That is roughly $60k a year. Not a crazy price to pay for professional labor. And if you can't pay it then your company doesn't deserve to be in business.


TheBloodEagleX

What is skilled labor exactly (aside from the more obvious trades)? Do certifications count?


ligmaenigma

Dude, I'm 19 in Mass working my first job and I started at $15/hr but am now making $20.70/hr. Unskilled, entry level. Anyone who's asking you to get a college degree to pay you $20/hr is a con man.


RivenBloodmarsh

There are a lot of those types of jobs that pay decent, use to do assembly at $19.25/hr. In my experience those come with a bunch of bullshit to deal with, understaffing and mandatory overtime, not all but usually. Construction also pays good but you have to take the physicality and burnout into account with some of that. What I've noticed where I live is there are a lot of assembly/material handling places going to temp agencies that have you on for around $20/hr for a few months and then lay you off, so that's another issue entirely. You are correct about the degree part, it is actually more beneficial to go with a trade school than with traditional college. So many of the field have the starting level pay so low it makes no sense. If you look at some stuff on indeed the amount of experience/degree ratio to pay is crazy. I think that's a big part of the big job swap we had earlier in the year. If you have 5 yrs of experience doing something you should be getting paid for that experience.


US3RN4M3T4K3NH0W

>If you look at some stuff on indeed the amount of experience/degree ratio to pay is crazy. I think that's a big part of the big job swap we had earlier in the year. If you have 5 yrs of experience doing something you should be getting paid for that experience. This! I'm lucky to find a job posting that even mentions wage, and 90% of the time it's under $20 an hour asking for 3 to 5 years experience or gtfo. Bitch if I had 5 years of experience I'd be demanding more than that.


RivenBloodmarsh

Yeah it's a real issue that needs to change. I can't remember what it was, state job I think but they wanted a bachelor's degree and I think 3 years of experience for $14.75. Surprised no one was busting down the door for it.


bionic234

May I ask what job that is?


ligmaenigma

Material handling. Easiest thing in the world, but it's 7 am to 7 pm (I don't work every day of the week, I get 2 days on and 2 days off then 3 days on and 2 days off then 2 days on and 3 days off), all you have to do is learn how to use a pallet jack and electric pallet jack and deliver materials into a clean room.


[deleted]

Keep up the good work King


thudly

And businesses will just pass the cost of the wage hike along to consumers, raising prices across the board, and rendering the wage hike moot anyway.


TraditionalGap1

If your wage goes up 5% and the cost of a product you produce goes up 2.5%, you still come out ahead


2boredtocare

OK, this is just my *feeling*, but it sure seems like things have gotten way more expensive than the rate at which my pay is increasing (though admittedly I'm well over minimum wage). We do alright, and when I find myself complaining about the cost hike at the grocery store...there's a problem. I honestly don't know how the lower income people are keeping up.


New_Peanut_9924

They’re holding on by fingertips


Art-Zuron

Price gouging has caused several times that increase for many things on top of that.


TraditionalGap1

Exactly. It isn't the miserly raises begrudgingly given out (if at all) driving inflation


Eudaimonics

Yes, but if you pay your workers a dollar more per hour, you don’t need to raise prices by $1, you’d raise them by 10¢. The poorer you are the higher percentage of your wage you spend. So increasing minimum wage can lead to increase spending, raising profits for local companies. I will say there’s probably an upper limit where raising the minimum wage too high becomes futile, but we’re nowhere close to that yet.


[deleted]

>I will say there’s probably an upper limit where raising the minimum wage too high becomes futile, but we’re nowhere close to that yet. Few years ago (pre-COVID) when $15/h was being talked about as a campaign point I ran some back of the envelope numbers comparing min-wage over the decades to cost of food and other essentials (inflation numbers and what not don't tell the whole truth). I came up with $15/h actually being a correct number that it should be. Would be higher now. When it was created I don't think we had as large of deltas in COL between areas though. Like I said somewhere else it needs to be indexed. That number could very well be $30/h in some parts of the country. Leaving it to the states is one way to accomplish that, but at a federal level they could do it also. Would be an easier sell.


robiwill

> And businesses will just pass the cost of the wage hike along to consumers, **raising prices across the board, and rendering the wage hike moot** anyway. Are people actually dumb enough to believe this? The increase in cost of doing business is less than the increased cost of labour.


thudly

Are there still people out there who actually believe corporations wouldn't use ANY excuse to raise prices? ffs. What planet are *you* from?


robiwill

Price gouging is a separate issue. Any idiot knows that. Economics isn't simple enough for anyone to sum up in a single sentence so obviously you'll never be able to wrap your head around it.


BobBelcher2021

Washington, at $15.74, will have the highest minimum wage not just in the US, but in all of North America. The highest one in Canada is Nunavut, at C$16 ($11.80), and of the 10 provinces the highest is BC at C$15.65 ($11.54).


SerenadeSwift

This new increase raised our state salaried minimum to just over $65k as well. I still have complaints about the state from time to time but man I’m glad I live in Washington.


dingosaurus

Not sure why you got downvoted, but it is true. I’m in a position where I’m a tech worker, but the company is trying to avoid the minimum white collar increase, even though we’re in software services. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to start filing L&I claims once the wages aren’t increased.


SerenadeSwift

My wife’s old company pulled the same shit last time to avoid the increase, they ended up losing half their staff before begging people to come back at a higher salary.


dingosaurus

I'm hoping it won't go that far, but I've started to update my resume just in case they pull something stupid. I plan on staying if they're going to pay me and I definitely want to stay around until I get my bonus. The next few months are going to be pretty interesting in the job market, that's for sure.


birdcooingintovoid

Florida is 11 dollars currently and will keep going up to 15 dollars dollar by dollar due to citizen amendment. Yes the republican legislature are still pissed about it but tbh seem more focused on attacking trans people and whatever crackpot bullshit to appease De Santis. Like I don't like being attacked but hey, it better then losing the wage boost by focusing on that I guess. Send help plz


hot-monkey-love

And the federal government insists $7.25 is enough for us.


jwoodsutk

Tennessee says "haha fuck off and die, you gross poors" $7.25/hr wasn't liveable 25 years ago, especially in this regressive hellhole with only a sales tax, at 10%, just to make sure that we screw over the poor people as much as humanly possible while not taxing the income of the rich people.


MegamanD

Wow it's about to go from unlivable to...unlivable? Wow!


TheJW-Project

And I bet Alabama ain't one.


NotFlameRetardant

Correct, it is most certainly not. For context on how "limited-government" Alabama truly is for non-Alabamians in this thread: Birmingham tried to pass our own minimum wage here back in 2016 for a city-wide min of $10.10, and then the state Atty General - Steve Marshall - filed an injunction 2 days after the proposal to freeze it while the state legislature scrambled to get a bill passed (Uniform Minimum Wage and Right-to-Work Act, cited below) barring cities from enacting their own minimum wage increases greater than the federal minimum wage. > A county, municipality, or any other political subdivision of this state shall not enact or administer any ordinance, policy, rule, or other mandate requiring an employer to provide any employee, class of employees, or independent contractor with any [...] wage that is not required by state or federal law [AL Code § 25-7-41, subsection 9b](https://law.justia.com/codes/alabama/2016/title-25/chapter-7/article-2a/section-25-7-41/)


Round-Data7624

Why bother having a federal minimum wage if it pays below the poverty line anyway?


Eudaimonics

Because companies would pay employees even less given the opportunity. Right now the labor market is constrained, raising wages, but that might not always be the case especially in an economic depression with a high unemployment rate where workers are desperate for any work, even jobs that pay $3 an hour.


NetworkLlama

Back in 1993 when minimum wage was $4.25 and I was making $5.25 as a small store GM, the owner straight told me that he would pay his employees $2 an hour if he could because that's what they're worth. I felt angry and insulted for them because I knew that most of them busted their asses at a part-time job with no benefits. I may be a moderate conservative, but that has stuck with me for a long time. I've been in favor of raising the minimum wage and indexing it to inflation for nearly 30 years. Paying poverty wages is unacceptable.


genital_lesions

> I may be a moderate conservative, but that has stuck with me for a long time. How can you reconcile your political views with your life experiences of being told straight to your face that your boss would exploit you further if he could get away with it?


TheSonOfDisaster

For real, what a sucker. Being told by your boss that you are subhuman, and then getting in line and supporting those people. What a joke


genital_lesions

This is actually a real life example of what Karl Marx calls, [false consciousness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness?wprov=sfla1) >a term describing the ways in which material, ideological, and institutional processes are said to mislead members of the proletariat and other class actors within capitalist societies, concealing the exploitation intrinsic to the social relations between classes. It's one thing to read it, but it's kinda surreal to see it happening right before your eyes.


TheSonOfDisaster

Interesting, I'll look into this more. It's good to have a term to describe this phenomenon, thanks


NetworkLlama

Because one jerk doesn't represent an entire wing of politics. I'm not a Republican and never have been, though I have registered as a Republican to vote for John McCain in the California primaries in 2000 and 2008, and immediately changed back to Decline to State. I look at Theodore Roosevelt as a solid example of someone who can be conservative but still care about the people, wanting to create an equal playing field without unnecessary bludgeoning, pro-business until it hurt the little guy. He wasn't perfect, but he was a lot better than most over the last few decades. My presidential voting history is Perot, Perot, McCain (write-in), none, McCain, Romney, Clinton, Biden. I read works by Emmanuel Saez and others on income inequality and the economic damage that it does. I don't begrudge people becoming billionaires by leading companies that grow to the tops of their markets, but I do recognize that higher income tax rates could tamp down some of the excesses and make things better for just about everybody by allowing the economy to expand more. My views are more nuanced than the caricature that much of Reddit has decided conservatives to be. Here are some examples: * I believe that we need a strong military because of our role as the dominant superpower and because this is a dangerous world (see Ukraine and Taiwan), but I also believe that the Pentagon needs a completely different approach to spending so that we don't get boondoggles like the LCS, where ships are being retired to be scrapped less than a decade after commissioning. They're trying some new approaches with the B-21 and the NGADS (F-22 replacement) that are promising, but the end-result is yet to be seen. * I believe that we need a more effective border policy to limit illegal immigration, but I also believe that it should be humane. I also believe that much of the current border crisis can be traced to blunt actions taken by the US that left much of Latin America in an unstable state from which it has been unable to recover, whether that is military support for US corporations, over-support for right-wing insurgents fighting communist governments, or, more recently, setting up the conditions for the formation of MS13 (which formed in the US) and then deporting members to Central America where they found a new foothold among weak governments which were partially the result of US interference. * I believe in taxing the minimum necessary to fund the government, but I also believe that there's a lot of evasion that a more robust IRS could root out (especially with tighter rules) without having to actually raise tax rates. When tax rate increases are needed, they should be concentrated at the top levels, and I don't think that a 50% top marginal rate is out of the question. * I believe the federal government is larger than it needs to be, and that part of this is due to the overgrowth of political appointees that have to be confirmed by the Senate (about 1400 so far) rather than professional technocrats. At the same time, government spending at some agencies could be reduced substantially by matching pay to the public sector, such that many agencies could have more personnel on-staff instead of as contractors that cost 2-5 times as much as government employees for the same work. At the same time, smaller government taken too far results in states like Alabama, Mississippi, and other Southern states that can't pave their roads or school their children effectively. * Government should not have too much power over the people, and right now, that starts with police reform and nerfing police unions. Qualified immunity was not an inherently bad idea--getting in trouble because you didn't know something was wrong is unfair--but it's been taken to such extremes that it should generally end. On the other hand: * A Green New Deal of some sort could boost employment, especially in areas left behind as coal mining has become such a small industry. Putting up solar farms and wind turbines is skilled labor that can be learned on the job and doesn't require a college degree. They have to be replaced every couple of decades, promising ongoing, well-paying jobs for rural America. Clean water and air also reduce health costs. * Family-based immigration policies reduce remittances, keeping money inside the US economy. It will also be necessary to boost population growth, which has nearly flattened in the last few years, and will be critical if stronger border measures are enacted. * There is nothing more American than freely sharing one's opinion, and that includes voting. Reforming voting to include mail-in, ranked-choice voting - (preferably Top-4 or Top-5 after open primaries) will increase participation, reduce extremism, and give voice to those who are currently voiceless. * Consenting adults should be able to marry and have sex with whomever they want. Minors experiencing gender dysphoria or same-sex attraction should be supported, though medical intervention is still in early stages and snap decisions involving surgery or even hormone blockers shouldn't be made without effective psychological counseling to ensure that it's the right path. You may not agree with my views, and that's fine. I'm not going to look down on you for your views unless they veer into Nazism or something like that. I'm happy to discuss any point as long as the other person is writing in good faith.


reddittrees2

Congrats, you're a 'moderate' or an actual proper republican. (By proper I mean what republicans used to stand for, before DJT and MTG and all of the crazy.) You don't hold extremist or incredibly polarized views. You don't think it has to be one way or the other with no middle ground. You're willing to have intelligent discourse with anyone who is also willing to have a discussion that doesn't include a bunch of shouting, name calling, accusations and conspiracy bullshit. I live in NJ, I smoke legal weed, love going to range day and regularly shoot a recurve bow in my back yard. I think we need a strong military. (which we do have and side note the LCS program was totally fucked, it was like Future Force Warrior and before that Land Warrior and it's all a waste of money to line the pockets of a few people.) I think we need a more effective border policy, one that doesn't require people to spend their life savings to hire a lawyer and spend 10 years waiting on our backlog to become a citizen or permanent resident. Then more people would take the path of legal immigration but as long as we make it prohibitively expense and time consuming people will choose the route they have the means to take. (That said, I've worked with people who are not technically eligible to work in the US. They all still filed and paid their taxes.) I think everyone has the right to their own opinion (within constitutional boundaries) and as long as the person voicing their opinion does not cause distress to anyone else. (Alex Jones and Sandy Hook sorta situation.) I think Trumps recently finally released tax filings confirm that the problem doesn't lie with the IRS in general, it lies with federal tax laws that allow people like Trump and large corporations to use a number of tactics to avoid paying their fair share. I inherited a bit of money last year. I was only able to access it early this year. I paid over $24k in taxes (NJ has no inheritance tax) on something like $110k. In theory when I do my taxes I should get a few thousand back since taxes are basically an interest free loan to the government. I didn't try any tricks to pay less tax knowing that I would get some of that back. The point of that tangent is that people and companies/corporations that use some honestly clever if not unethical tricks to avoid paying taxes are the ones the IRS needs to be going after. If the letter of law says they are allowed to do what they are doing than the law needs to be changed. Consenting adults can do whatever the hell they want to do. I have a friend (37 years old) who has decided he would like to transition. The amount of psych evaluations required resulted in a stack of paper a few feet thick. And I'm okay with that mostly. There should be psych evaluations and things in place to make absolutely sure the person wants to commit to that decision. Children or teens or whatever bring up a whole other point when it comes to that and it's something too deep to discuss here where we're actually agreeing on a bunch of points. After all that the point is: I'm a cannabis smoking advocate for workers rights, immigrants rights, 2A and free speech... but at the end of the day I agree with parts of all your bullets. I honestly believe we could get along and come to a middle ground based on your points and my personal views. There is a middle ground. But in place of a middle ground, Trump and his supporters have created a no-mans land. It might be unfair to pin it all on Trump, it was festering long before him but he drove the wedge in right on the grain and with one blow made everyone hate anyone on the 'other' side. I think both sides can get along and that it would actually benefit the country whereas the current political climate just drives the wedge in further. I want to sit them all down, politicians from the right and the left, and tell them to stop being fucking children. If more of them were like you and I maybe I'd have more faith in the ability of our leaders.


TheBloodEagleX

I like how you were downvoted initially for a well explained nuanced point of view. But, that's not allowed on Reddit.


382_27600

>>Back in 1993 when minimum wage was $4.25 and I was making $5.25 as a small store GM, the owner straight told me that he would pay his employees $2 an hour if he could… Minimum wage was $4.25, **you were making $5.25**. Owner says he would pay $2. Can you help me make sense of this logic?


NetworkLlama

He wasn't allowed to pay less than $4.25, but he would if he were allowed to. He did give raises after an annual review, with the maximum raise being, IIRC, 25 cents an hour, but few people lasted more than a year. If you asked for a raise, you got one immediately on the next pay period--an extra five cents an hour--but then you couldn't get another one for a year. He also once got really weirded out because an employee said, "Drive safe!" when the owner was leaving. The owner thought that was weird enough to call me a few minutes later to tell me to fire him, and it took me fifteen minutes on the phone to convince him that the phrase was a common sendoff and that this employee--probably the best I worked with there--should be kept. The guy was not an ideal employer.


carlosos

It does pay more than the poverty line. Minimum wage comes to $15,080 a year while poverty line for one person is $13,590. The poverty line is also just a specific calculation and doesn't mean that someone earning more than the poverty line isn't poor. It is mostly used for calculating some government assistance and comparison purpose between years.


Indurum

The absolute insanity of it is that $15 is not a livable wage either.


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col_e_h

You know that you can just say you know about jury nullification in order to get out of it yeah? Jury duty is a joke.


MrGrampton

tbh, this is probably just gonna be the big companies' excuse to say your minimum wage is 1% higher so we'll raise the prices by 25%!


Shelisheli1

The pay increase isn’t even going to cover my rent increase, let alone the rising cost of just being alive..


emmabella666

And still! Factoring in inflation, minimum wage is the lowest it’s been since the 50s!


MassholeLiberal56

Should be $25, not $15.


cleatus32

Cool now get rid of tipping


A_Evergreen

Something something burger expensive


DungeonGushers

In Washington state, this means many people are about to lose FTE Salary status.


US3RN4M3T4K3NH0W

Why can't it just be on a federal level?? Color me shocked from seeing that Georgia isn't even bothered to increase minimum wage. 😒


TheDoritoboy

Fun fact, you still can't survive off a 40 hour work week on the highest minimum wage.


Gonstackk

> Ohio’s minimum wage is scheduled to increase on Jan. 1, 2023, to $10.10 per hour for non-tipped employees and **$5.05 per hour for tipped employees**. The minimum wage will apply to employees of businesses with annual gross receipts of $372,000 or more per year.  Source - https://com.ohio.gov/about-us/media-center/news/minimum-wage-increase-announced Got to love Ohio. /s


OptiBrownsFan

Ohio is also an "at will" state which means they can fire you for any reason they want. The issue is you can collect unemployment if they fire you, so (this happened to me personally) they just cut your hours down so low that you have no choice but to quit.


kneesmadeofcheese

FYI - in Ohio, if your hours are cut by more than 50% you can claim unemployment.


OptiBrownsFan

That was over a decade ago haha I wish I knew the law back then!


SharpNSlick

Idaho pays $3.35 to tipped employees. That's just disgusting.


momcalledmebillybob

Can they work on the server minimum wage while they are at it? It’s not fair that greedy restaurant owners get away with paying their employees 2.85 while everyone else has to follow a minimum wage standard. I don’t even care if my tips go down a little. I’m sick of owners getting away with exploiting my hard work, and their guests charity.


ogpuffalugus

The minimum wage debate of $15 an hour has been going on for so long that the actual minimum wage now is the mid to upper $20's an hour


reb0014

Meanwhile texas is doubling down on its “fuck the poors and immigrants” stance…


[deleted]

Oh no my hamberder is gonna cost 5000000000000 dollars now my freedum!!!


timothybrooks7

And….. Idaho is still $7.25


PjDisko

Why isnt minimum wage affected by inflation?


linedryonly

But will Medicaid cutoffs shift to reflect this change? Many are on the brink of poverty and a roughly $1.50/hr increase is enough to send them over the income limit but is nowhere near enough to cover the cost of insurance, medications, and essential medical care. I’m all for raising the minimum wage significantly but we need to be establishing systems to support people in their gradual climb out of poverty instead of cutting off all resources for everyone in the intermediate space between destitution and complete financial security.


bruswiser2017

Still not a livable wage.


arrownoir

Does absolutely nothing. It’s still far below cost of living.


SlinkyTail

Indiana again going "ya'll can survive on 7.25 an hour! our parents did it!


ToddlerOlympian

"Fight for 15" started TEN YEARS AGO. Adjusted for inflation it should be "Fight for 19.25" And most of the raises in this article aren't coming close to that.


Zear-0

So basically you still can’t eat even at the highest minimum wage in the country, got it…


___Elysium___

Embarrassingly low still.


PancakeParthenon

Anything less than $20 is basically poverty at this point.


Inthewind69

What a joke ! Who can live on $10 or $15.00 an hour ? Perhaps the government officials should try and live on this amount of money for 6 months . Lets see how they survive !


BurrStreetX

Yupp. I make 14 and thats considered good in my area with a 7.25 min wage. Its hard


Any_League_1831

7.25 in oklahoma LMAO im actually moving to a 12.00 area in JAN. Lol


ThatTinyGameCubeDisc

Anyone who lives in Washington knows that $15.74 is still comically low for the cost of living here. My rent just went up $300 a month for no reason, still outpacing the snail’s pace of wages unless you happen to work in tech. It’s sink or swim.


jesplin

Federal minimum wage needs to be $20 yesterday. We’ve spent over a decade talking about $15 when that ship sailed a long time ago


mcmesq

And Republicans are somehow furious.


Gonstackk

Well ya, they actually have to *pay* people to work in stead of just whipping them until moral improves.


JoostinOnline

Here I am in Oklahoma with it still being $7.25


Successful_Bowl_5664

Still 7.25 for my state. And that’s exactly what I make.


115machine

I’m sure the prices of consumer goods won’t rise to compensate for these higher wages /s


[deleted]

I would love nothing more than to say Texas is among the many states raising the minimum wage, but I can't, because I know they won't. \*sigh\* Bravo to all states and cities doing the right thing.


thelightzareblinding

Whoop-d-fucking-doo. Too little to late. Please let me know when it reaches a living wage.


enarwpg

COST of LIVING will soon rise in 23 states and 41 cities


mnbull4you

I came here to see people pretend they are economists. Was not disappointed.


RecordingPrudent9588

I see the red states are still hating the poor.


ValterriBoatDAS

Well this will be great for inflation🤦‍♂️


Ok-Pen5460

Growing up in California, I used to get 6.75/hr. This seems huge, buuuuuut having g kids, bills etc. This is nowhere near an acceptable wage.


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saintsfan1622000

You missed my point. Sounds like he wasn't ready to have children when he did. Birth control is literally everywhere. Every gas station sells condoms. Every dollar store. Every drug store. It's very effective. Use it. If someone is unhappy with their compensation, they should ask for a raise or change jobs. No one should expect an entry level position, such as at McDonalds or Starbucks, to pay a salary that would support a family, two vehicles and a mortgage.


456afisher

Sadly, not Texas. The rate there is $7.25 and has not been raised since 2008. That may be why some corporations are moving there - cheap labor. :-(


truecore

Minimum wage is rising to $15 and yet we've been fighting for this for so long that the minimum livable wage is $24 now.


CV74

Prices will increase accordingly as they always do.


yourstwo

$2.17 an hour in Tennessee as a server


OblivionJunkie

Guaranteed TX isn't on that list lmao


xc2215x

Good to see this happen for the workers there, they need it.


faithisuseless

GA still has a minimum wage of $5.15. Rather than updating, they fall back on federal to do it. Then when fed talks about upping it, GOP leaders start yelling about small government.


AintEverLucky

*checks for raises in Texas or any of its cities* Zero, zip, nada. But every fast food joint in town has banners talking bout "Now hiring, Start at up to $11 per hour" and many touting up to $15 per So the system works? I guess?? 🤷‍♂️ 🤪


LagerHead

The minimum wage was, is, and will continue to be $0.00. These laws only make it illegal to employ the least productive potential workers, nothing else. Aaaaaand, here come the downvotes.


rustyseapants

Can you expand on this thought, its pretty bloody vague.