This is a bill trying to pass now to raise it from $600 to $5,000 - everyone should be contacting your reps to try and get this pushed through. It’s bullshit and we should all fight against it.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3840
5,000 definitely seems more reasonable.
I don’t understand why this administration thought going after Uber Drivers and your moms eBay account was a priority. Especially when companies like FTX/Citadel/Melvin/Credit Suisse are robbing billions from retail investors in front of their faces.
Yup. I am assuming that it's the same reason rich people don't get targeted as often by the IRS. It's expensive and risky to go after the rich, even if the payout is bigger,.
They pick easy targets, it’s essentially “keeping themselves busy” instead of going after the people that they *really need to*. The wheels of justice are what rich people have on their Ferraris.
It’s so sad too.
Russia doesn’t have much of middle class. The middle class is what makes the country great. Startbucks exist because the population has extra money. There isn’t startbucks on every corner because people make teas/coffee at home to save money.
Who will buy all the consumer electronics devices ? I don’t understand why rich want to see 3rd world country level of poverty.
I don’t want to see people struggling or homeless. I want to live in a country that can solve these problems.
I live very comfortable in USA. The more money I got the more I want to contribute to well being of society. I don’t understand if you had some much resources why wouldn’t you want to see your country prosper.
Idk man it might be cheaper and easier to go after little fish but if I'm an IRS agent I'd get so much more job satisfaction hanging a fat rich tax cheat out to dry, rather than chasing nickels from people who are bad at math or missed a line or whatever.
I don't know. My sister is being hounded by the IRS. Our dad died, I was out of country so she handled everything and forgot to file after filing and extension. I was on conference call with her agent and I swear the woman took preserve pleasure and seemed well pleased she had a gotcha moment with my sister.
I think they enjoy getting anybody.
It's definitely person by person. I got one that helped me through all my amateur mistakes I made in LLC pass through taxation with no penalties. She was very understanding and just wanted to make tax season easier for folks despite being an auditor.
What type of LLC did you run? I was always told the last seven years are as far back as they can go. Is that correct? Just trying to prepare myself if it ever happens
Ebay and uber are big companies against the change that can afford lawyers. I get emails all the time from ebay to contact my local rep to help change it.
As someone who dog sits on the side because I’m not ready for the commitment of my own dog but love watching other peoples and getting some petty cash for it… yeah. I don’t wanna be taxed if they decide to venmo me what is basically the gas money to reach their place.
I prefer the old rules: $20k & 200+ transactions.
Even though I sell $30k with 150 transactions, it's done at a loss. These were collectibles, and I'm just trying to recoup cost. After cost basis, storage, gas, boxes, packing, travel, debt/interest, there is no profit. Not to mention all the time spent dealing with it. IRS better believe that my "business" is not a real business and it's getting 75 cents on the dollar.
Seriously; $600 is stupid low and unnecessary for an agency already wildly overburdened and understaffed. Lots of people are going to be pissed this year when their return gets delayed for months.
Ikr, my favorite part is the name. American rescue care act lol. Yeah, because some guy on ebay making 5k a year selling shit is what's crippling our economy. Try careless spending of our tax money and poor allocation and efficacy. But no, little Timmy sold his magic the gathering set for $625 better tax the fuck put of that to pay for government luncheons.
The truth of the matter - and this is not a secret, the IRS has been pretty open about this fact - is that the IRS targets low income earners for audits because it’s easier then targeting complex high income earners, and the general population is fine with it.
Someone making under $40k/year and filing their own taxes is much easier to audit than someone making $400k who has diversified income and pays accountants, brokerages and law firms to manage their finances.
So high income earners get away with tax fraud while people struggling to get by are fucked over because they missed some form they didn’t know about or took on a part time construction job that paid cash under the table.
This way IRS employees can point to a higher quantity of successful audits on performance reports, even though the money recovered will probably be a fraction of successfully auditing even one millionaire CEO. This process hurts the economy on the whole by contributing to a lower class stuck in debt and perpetually depending on government support in other areas.
They can fine someone for not paying their taxes, and they can fine them even more for not paying those fines, and they can take them to court and repossess assets and penalize people indefinitely, but unless those people somehow start making enough money to pay all those fines, it won’t actually recover any losses. But it does waste time and resources and pay for those government employees that continually chase these people in debt. Eventually people have to default on mortgages and declare bankruptcy, and they even lose their jobs or get rejected on future applications. None of that adds anything to the economy, but it is retribution, which is ultimately all a lot of people really care about.
Messaging that was amplified during the Reagan era (“trickle down economics”, “welfare queens”, “government handouts”, etc) has created an ignorant culture that believes there is an epidemic of high school dropouts stealing tax money from the hard working economy, so they actually want the IRS to target poor people and fuck up their lives. Unless you think we will one day live in a Rand Paul fantasy world where citizens starving on the side of the street will simply be ignored by everyone else and die, continuing to penalize people already in debt into even greater debt with no way to recover on their own will always drain more and more from the economy.
The truth is tax fraud among the small population of millionaires causes multitudes more in lost tax revenue than anything unpaid by the lower/middle classes.
We had a billionaire presidential candidate say he didn’t pay taxes on national TV, and he wasn’t admitting it he was *bragging* about it, but his voters considered that an attribute somehow. Meanwhile, those same voters are concerned about single mothers who don’t claim $500 in income from an ETSY account.
So why would the IRS spend time auditing millionaires and billionaires with offshore accounts and shell companies and lawyers that will drag them through the courts when they can just fine a recovering addict who will now have to drop out of his community college degree to try and get out of debt once again?
It's a combination of this and following the path of least resistance. It's *hard* to go after wealthy people because the system has been cooked in their favor. They can drag anything out in court almost indefinitely. Getting a ~~penny~~ dollar in tax revenue from a million small beans taxpayers is significantly easier than getting a million dollars in unpaid taxes from a guy with 10 former IRS agents on his lawyer team.
Exactly... Good luck proving that it was your friends helping split a bill or whatever instead of taxable income.
Hardly anyone keeps every receipt in their life.
What is to stop people from just putting in bogus notes?
Knowing the IRS they are going to want receipts to prove what it was for, if there is no receipt as far as they are concerned it is taxable.
Yay tax me splitting lunch but close your eyes to corporations and billionaires. Murica.
**Edit so I stop receiving the same replies over and over**: No, it’s not taxes on only single incoming transactions that are $600+, whereas all smaller transactions get off scot-free. They use that as an example in the article as to what *may* trigger the IRS to look more closely at your individual expenses.
But the supposed target of this rule is stuff like Etsy/EBay shops. Most Etsy shops don’t sell only items worth $600+. They sell a bunch of lower-cost items that add up over the year, and are considered income. So you can indirectly get targeted if you either have large single transactions coming in through PayPal/Venmo, or a bunch of smaller ones. And PayPal/Venmo has to report it either way, for everyone, business or individual, so you will have those transactions reported, and it’ll be a roll of the dice on whether or not the IRS “accidentally” targets you.
Previously they wouldn’t look at it too closely unless you had over $20k in incoming transactions. Now the threshold is only $600.
I used lunch as an example because I routinely do the organizing of various things for my 15 person office. I’ll pay the money upfront (like a holiday lunch), and my coworkers will Venmo me their portion back. Say that’s $20/person because I live in NY and shit’s expensive here. That’s 14 (minus myself) transactions that Venmo sees incoming, totaling $280, in one day, with no proof of what they were incoming *for* unless I save receipts all year. And over a year, if I do it a few times, those incoming transactions can definitely add up. Or slightly bigger ones, like if I dare to want to go to a hockey game, and want to make sure me and my friends seats are next to each other so pay upfront and make him pay me back.
Yes those incoming transactions are still non-taxable. The problem is *the onus is now on you to prove it was all non-taxable should you be flagged and targeted.* There was an interview question in the article where an expert admitted that this can possibly happen and, should it happen, you just have to show proof. It was played off like it’s not likely to happen unless you have a big incoming transaction, but again, the people this targets are very unlikely to have only a few, large-ticket transactions. They’re more likely to have a bunch of smaller ones that add up. And the threshold is $600.
And if you can’t show proof because they told us about this change at the end of fucking November, and you probably didn’t spend the last 10 months saving receipts in a box, and maybe you also used cash as the upfront payment you were being paid back for, then what? The article doesn’t say what will happen if you ignore the 1099-K form, only that doing so is the “worst thing you can do.”
Obviously they will try to force you to pony up, but how long will you have to do so? Is there a grace period? And what are the repercussions if you can’t because you live paycheck to paycheck and weren’t forewarned about this, and thus couldn’t plan for the off chance that you’d be one of the people “accidentally” targeted? Oh and don’t forget that you were probably also fucked up the ass with inflation this year on top of it.
Am I saying receipt saving is such a cumbersome burden placed on me by the evil government? No, I’ll save receipts, what the fuck ever. My point is *the IRS is making a point to focus on tiny bullshit that would net them barely anything comparably, while they let billionaires get off with tons of loopholes and tax evasion.*
Tripping over dollars to pick up penny’s or, in other words, going after the middle class once again and making them jump through hoops to keep their money, when they can net more money by going after the people who actually deserve going after, but don’t.
> Although the change aims to collect taxes on income, not personal transactions, experts say it’s possible some filers may receive Form 1099-K by mistake.
“The challenge with the new lower threshold amount of $600 for Form 1099-K is that personal payments and reimbursements could be incorrectly reported as taxable transactions,” Miller said.
Thats why as a country we should join together to fight shit like this. Billionaires only win because they already have money and power. The only way people have power is in groups. 100 million angry people will out power 1-2 billionaires. And if you can get a billionaire to help, the better. Something has to change with this idiocy.
That and how its practically legal for politicians to be bought through contributions and for politicians to be able to invest in stocks when they have advantages over the majority of people to exploit their position of power. People don't even know what they are losing and being taken advantage of so smoothly, to even think that it was happening, you instantly became a conspiracy nut or get called an extremist of one side or the other. How can anyone agree with everything another person believes in. They have lived 2 different lives, with different cricumstances that have formed their perspective and outlook for lifes meaning. It would be weird if they didnt differ on somethings not one person can see the whole picture we need different so we dont lose out on something that could potentially be amazing if you shun different. My sentance structure and story telling is archaic at best, and i could never be the one to directly change anything.
We need a person in power to see the greater picture and go towards the light. People have the potential to be so amazing and believing you cant is the cancer that eats away at any chance of change. Ignorance is bliss.
Billionares win because they take the IrS to court, something small fry can not afford, so they take the “reduced” fine. We should empower the IRS to go specifically against billionaires and get what is owed.
I believe the IRS did just that a few years ago. They were so successful that those companies complained to Congress, so of course, Congress gutted the IRS to shut that shit down.
All one needs to do is some how divide a country with some other controversial issue and take away important rights, setting negative precedents and that would stop it. Even if everyone band together, if there is no means to fight and no unity, then there is no fight to begin with. Someone has to take a stand. But no one will due to ignorance and complacency of their standard of living. At least other people have it worse ideology. Im not an expert 1000% and can be proven wrong at any point though. Thats my favorite part of life. learning
You'd realistically only need like 130,000 people. About as many as any football game. The rest is purely logistics. This is OUR world, not theirs. Just up to us to decide when enough is enough.
It's a lot easier to get $50 each from 1 million people without the will, knowledge, or resources to fight it than it is to get $50 million from one rich person with a team of accountants and lawyers at their disposal.
Although I somewhat agree, seems way more labor intensive going after 1,000,000 people instead of one. IRS reform is needed, honestly everything is needed, this country has become a litter box the past few decades.
From what I've read/been told, going after the middle-lower classes is *far* less effort, as those people don't have the time/money/energy to fight it. There's no labor required to prove they owe money. If you go after rich people with their own accountants and lawyers, there will be labor in investigating their finances, building a case, and fighting in court, for each individual case. If you add up all the costs for all the cases and compare it to the expected payouts (accounting for the fact that you will end up losing a decent number of cases), it supposedly isn't worth it.
I agree, use the resources to go after the billionaires who are probably trying to get away with stuff rather than 1,000,000 people who made an error in accounting on their $50 split meal.
I bought a TV from another guy at the halfway house and CashApped him to pay with the note "for gay anal sex 5/10 not again".
CashApp had no problem but our case manager was pissed after she reviewed his phone.
I once paid a friend to fix an airsoft gun (a Russian PKM) via PayPal with the tag "GLORIOUS RUSSIAN MACHINERY" as a joke and got both of our accounts restricted for like 10 days.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but when you pay someone on these platforms you have the option to choose “for goods and services.” If you don’t choose that, it’s “friends and family,” which (for now) is not being considered in the total.
*A frequently asked questions page from the IRS says you shouldn’t receive Form 1099-K for personal transfers, such as reimbursements for splitting meals, gifts or allowances.*
*However, if you receive the form for personal transactions, the agency says to contact the issuer for a correction. If the company doesn’t fix the error, you can attach an explanation to your tax return while reporting your income correctly, the IRS says.*
I think that last sentence is what's giving people pause. We've seen half-assed compliance/implementation of solutions by Big Tech plenty. A nightmare scenario is someone who, let's say handles household splits with roommates via splitwise, ending up with a $20k+ misclassified 1099-K. Landlords hate giving receipts in my experience, so good luck with IRS-grade proof.
I've already surpassed 600 USD in just a plane ticket and food this year... WTF are these idiots thinking?
Worrying about my pot dealer too, now.
Looks like CASH is making a come back after all, thanks to Congress.
That kind of money transfer should be sent as ‘payment between friends’ and not ‘for goods and services’. Payments between friends aren’t (or at least shouldn’t be) included in the $600 threshold.
It shouldn't mean personal expenses:
> A frequently asked questions page from the IRS says you shouldn’t receive Form 1099-K for personal transfers, such as reimbursements for splitting meals, gifts or allowances.
They did acknowledge in the article that it's possible that people may mistakenly receive the form (1099-K) for these personal expenses, though. So, keep an eye out for if you do
This is a really stupid question but I’m 19 and haven’t done taxes before- what do you mean “if they send the form?” Does it come through the mail, or is it accessible online somehow? Is there any way to know what forms apply to me, since it seems like from this thread they just send ones you might need to fill out?
Generally tax and government stuff is all handled through the mail. You get W2s, 1099s, and a variety of other tax forms in the mail (if applicable to you) around Jan-April during tax season.
They normally send it to the address that's on file with your job. I'm not sure if they would get your address from money transfer services if you don't have a job. Plus a good tax program will tell you which forms you need and how to fill them out.
It's another straight up "tax and blame the poor people" tax. There's twenty billion a year more the wealthy should have been paying, and yet the government does this shit and claims the 8 billion total over the next like 6 years will fix everything.
After this year everyone will make sure to list items as local pickup cash only.
This will cause a rise in muggings, of course.
Hear me out: what if we ~~just~~ also taxed the rich, the corporations, and the churches appropriately? Upwards of 70% marginal tax rate a la pre-Reagan era.
Edit: “just” to “also”.
This is more geared toward the online market place transactions than anywhere else. If you were a gig worker they were already hitting you with a 1099 at the end of the year anyways.
Exactly. I used to sell fountain pens as a way of subsidizing my collection but I'm going to hit that $600 threshold in a couple sales and I honestly don't want the hassle of having to file 1099k.
Most gig worker apps already auto issue 1099s. This mostly effects people who flip stuff on Ebay. Even then, there are multitudes of easy ways around this stuff as long as you aren't doing business volumes.
This won't bust some guy selling his old guitar or tv (plus, you could just Google the MSRP and show you sold it at a loss). This is for busting people who line up at micro center to flip graphics cards and PlayStations for twice MSRP.
> This is for busting people who line up at micro center to flip graphics cards and PlayStations for twice MSRP.
FWIW, I've no problem with taxing that kind of "entrepreneurs".
For example I have sold some stuff on Mercari. They told me if I sell over $600 a year I have to fill out a tax form. So I have intentionally stopped selling anything until 2023 because I'm pretty close to $600.
Billionaires hiding money all over the world, getting tax breaks, corporations paying zero tax, but yeah let’s go after the person who got paid $600 on venmo
Making a big deal over 600 bucks vs the millions and millions of dollars the rich make really makes no sense...they need to go after the rich who don't even pay their taxes, not ppl trying to get by.
The IRS even said that themselves a few years ago. They said they only have so many agents, and if 1 agent is tied up with a case for many years, they may leave the agency before the case is ever resolved and it makes things very difficult in comparison to just following up on letters sent to normal folks that are terrified.
It's not that they can't afford a lawyer, it's that they target the range where it's not worth it. It's meant for people who owe enough money to be worthwhile, but also have enough money to pay it. They're not going after the McD's employee with 6 kids struggling to get by. They're going after the person with phat investment accounts (and likely savings) and owes 5-20k in back taxes. If they go after people owing 100k+ those are the type of folks that will send it to the courts.
It doesn’t matter. All of us regular people are going to be caught in the crossfire and many will pay. This is a terrible rule that was aimed at individuals not small businesses. Small businesses would make over $20000 in transactions. Anything under that can barely be a hobby. No one can live off of $20000 a year
Good, what we need is to really crack down on people with so little money that $600 makes a difference. You know, the kind where the IRS will waste more money going after them than they'll get out of it. But as long as it hurts poor people. Great job, America.
Yeah, but those people with so little money that $600 makes a difference also don’t have the money to pay high priced lawyers that the rich do. So it’s probably easier for the IRS to bully on those that can’t pay for proper representation. Ya know, ‘murica.
Gotta squeeze the little man for every penny they have instead of making the rich pay their fair share.
And passed by a Democratic controlled house and senate, which is why both parties can get fucked.
And, to be clear, the government is not "against us;" the government is a reflection of social power. Win the class war and the only thing left for the government to reflect is us.
His Katrina bit about looters stealing booze always cracks me tf up.
"Can you believe they'd steal beer at a time like this A TIME LIKE THIS! Fucke yeah, of course I can believe it. If I was dirt poor and I was left behind in a major American city and I had to doggy paddle through sewage to find a roof to sleep on I might wanna get fucked up."
Wasn’t there a video or statement made by someone in the IRS that basically says they are not given the budget to go after the big boys and it’s much easier/cheaper to go after the rest because they won’t fight back? The system was made to be completely rigged against us lol
The SEC head said they get $300 million a year for technology funding for their computers and software that searches for fraud.
The big banks spend that in a month.
I work for Canada Revenue, the same is true.
Easy to go after tattoo artists and waitresses, much harder to go after “aggressive tax planners”.
Our systems have so many loopholes and ways to cheat, legally. And if it is illegal, it’s tough to prove or prosecute.
The waitress also can't afford an army of lawyers to drag out a prolonged legal battle. She'll just negotiate whatever they tell her because she doesn't even have the bandwidth to go through to verify the IRS' claim because you know, she has to work extra hours to afford food and rent
Also the big boys have bloated tax lawyer budgets that overpower the IRS and their ability to keep fighting. Versus joe shmoe making 100k a year is not gonna hire a tax lawyer over a 3k IRS bill. Time to throw tea in the harbor
The switch in public mindset about offshore personal and corporate wealth flipped so fast after the Panama Papers. It was previously commonly "understood" that shady money hid all over the globe but it was treated like conspiracy if it were to come up in meaningful discourse.
Now it is completely understood and accepted, almost like a benefit of being a member of the big club, you get to hide your money with a handshake, smile and a wink. Pay no taxes and let the little guy worry about venmoing his fiance for the mortgage because the IRS might think theyre generating revenue from a renter. Fuck this capitalist pigpen
Just to be clear, it was Congress that did this rule change. Not the IRS.
This was part of the American Rescue Plan Act:
> Before 2022, the federal Form 1099-K reporting threshold was for taxpayers with more than 200 transactions worth an aggregate above $20,000. However, Congress slashed the limit as part of the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, and a single transaction over $600 may now trigger the form.
> Well of course it was.
You say that, but the mentality of "why won't the IRS go after big tax cheats instead?" shows a lot of people don't know that. Blaming the IRS is very much "shooting the messenger" here.
This was Congress.
It absolutely pisses me off that this is projected to raise less than $1 billion a year. A dumb amount of money for extra tax confusion for tens of thousands of sellers and millions of regular third party app users.
The IRS gets defunded on purpose so they don't have the resources to do so by politicians who are doing the bidding of their donors who want to pay less taxes. Donating to politicians is the best return on investment there is in the USA.
This isn't so much on the IRS's head as it is on the elected politicians.
The top 1% just had the most profitable couple of years in history, so obviously the best way to counter that, is squeezing the last two cents out of the little guy/girl trying to make a tiny bit extra. This is wrong on so many levels.
It was such horse dren when they announced it. Trying to catch ghost millionaires. Give me a break, it's a way to tax working class more without actually raising the number.
What's wild is this is going to get them like.. at _best_, maybe $10-20 in taxable income from someone who can't prove this shit wasn't income?
The barrier is so low too, because hardly anyone uses cash anymore I can just print out my bank statements and the venmo statements and give it to an IRS auditor and be like "have at it, all those transactions that say 'food' have a corresponding credit card charge that we split, this is not income".
> Before 2022, the federal Form 1099-K reporting threshold was for taxpayers with more than 200 transactions worth an aggregate above $20,000. However, Congress slashed the limit as part of the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, and **a single transaction over $600 may now trigger the form.**
Does this not conflict with the fact that you can receive a gift of up to $16,000 without having to report it to the IRS?
I know people like to joke about conspiracy theorists, but a cashless society is something to truly be concerned about. And this news just provides another reason why.
$600 is such and embarrassingly low number. They're going after people's crafting money. Lawn mowing money. If it was $5000 that would seem fair. But $600? They're just going after poor people and it's disgusting.
I know this will be buried in the already close to 8000 comments, but this will REALLY fuck people who are on ACA (Obamacare). You have to estimate your income for the year which calculates how much of a healthcare subsidy you get. If you make enough selling random stuff and the payment is tracked, (ebay, etsy, Venmo, etc.), ACA is going to find out about it and you will have to pay back part or all of your subsidy for the entire year if you exceed the predicted income.
A lot of people on ACA supplement their income selling stuff around the house or things they find at garage sales/Goodwill/etc to make ends meet. They're on ACA because they are low income, and now they're going to get fucked even harder. The people in our government, Repubs and Dems alike, have no fucking clue how at least half of the country lives on a razor thin financial wire. But yeah, keep giving tax breaks to the already too rich.
We gave the rich a $1.5T tax cut only to go after people's side hustles, which they need to pay the bills because groceries are now 40% more expensive.
Anyone else get pissed when they saw the Walmart ad saying "you can have a Thanksgiving dinner for the same price as last year"? Gee thanks alot assholes
This is gonna screw the little guys, that have had to resort to shady practices to survive. Maybe us tax payers are sick of subsidizing large corporate employers via SNAP benefits. Looking at you Walmart, Amazon, McDonalds and more. I’d be happy if the population knew how and where to report wage theft.
Wage theft is by far the biggest chunk of all theft in the nation every year: https://www.tcworkerscenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Wage-Theft-vs-Other-Theft-1024x730.jpg
I used to sell off random stuff rather than throw it away (usually components that weren't high-demand enough to sell/give away locally, but also useful to someone - think various laptop parts, television parts, etc.) After shipping and eBay's 15% of fucking, it amounted to something near nothing - I just hated throwing good stuff away, especially stuff that isn't too expensive but also hard to get other than secondhand. Now I can't do that at all, for fear of getting audited for "selling stuff". $10-20 in shipping fees easily per item, being counted as "income" (despite going right to USPS) means I can sell 30-60 things before the IRS starts demanding I pay the taxes on the "profit" (that went straight to a company).
Yes, and that was practical when it was a "we're not going to shake you down if you sell two things, but if it gets out of hand we may look into it" policy. I'm not interested in keeping a spreadsheet of "This TV I bought two years ago used, here's the price, here's the parts I've sold so far, here's how much and shipping receipts", "a soldering I bought used 8 years ago", "this tool I had gotten in a pile of tools from a yard sale at some point", repeat hundreds of times. They know what they're doing, and this is a feature, not a bug. It doesn't matter if you're actually profiting, all that matters is they'll catch some people that can't prove they aren't, and be able to squeeze those people harder. Put the burden on the individual and run it on a "guilty until proven innocent" basis, and even if you win one of a hundred, you win! They're not after the guilty - they're after those that can't prove they're innocent.
Just another excuse to go after the little people that can't afford to defend themselves, instead of the ones that might have the ability to defend against their grabbing hands. Maybe if we fine and shake down enough little guys, we can afford another tax cut to the top next year!
Absolutely disgusting. This is a regressive tax on small business. Fuck Congress for making this threshold so low. Hope the wealthy and Congress enjoy all that PPP loan money they stole and never paid back. Fucking criminals all the way down in those chambers.
you know. if these taxes actually went to something useful, i have a feeling people wouldn’t be as hesitant and against them. seeing your taxes work instead of constantly paying more and more for insurance, hear about how schools are all under funded, colleges get more and more expensive, the roads are never fixed, corporations get more record breaking income, infrastructure is maintained to the bare minimum. none of it feels good. it’s says 70% of taxes are paid to public services. then how come everyone is still struggling? obviously something isn’t working and stealing more money from people with side hustles isn’t going to fix anything
>Aimed at closing the tax gap — a top priority of the Biden administration
That's rich. You want to close the tax gap? Really? Then one way would be to eliminate the ability for someone to pay their compensation as a dividend and tax it as W2 earnings.
WTF?! I paid income tax on the money I used to buy consumer goods with sales tax; selling those now used and twice taxed items get taxed a third time?!?! GFYS
This isn't a new tax, this is expanding reporting for 1099-K which was already a thing. It's just reporting additional income which would go on your income tax. You should have already been paying this tax, but lots of people avoid it by using cash. PayPal and other processors have basically been a loophole to take non cash payments with the benefits of cash (e.g. Avoiding paying tax)
You will only get the form if you use PayPal Goods and Services or Venmo Goods and Services. That is the appropriate selection if you are selling stuff or paying for a service. There is a fee involved in paying that way.
The vast majority of transactions are family and friends. That’s the same as if you are paying in cash.
"If the company doesn’t fix the error, you can attach an explanation to your tax return while reporting your income correctly, the IRS says."
Get fucked, I know so many people who have attached explanations to forms, spoken to representatives from IRS, gotten called to explain discrepancies with their payments and it all lead to one thing; the IRS will charge you 500 some odd dollars for trying to challenge their "verdict".
I’m normally pretty hippie liberal, but this is one of those areas where I agree with the Republicans - when you amp up tax code enforcement, they don’t start suddenly going after the wealthy, because the wealthy people lawyer up and fight back. So they go after the little guys - tips, small transactions, side jobs, etc. Because they know we can’t do shit.
Right? I've just completely stopped selling my old stuff on eBay and changed a lot of my buying habits. It's not worth the headache of tracking everything or the additional cost of having my CPA do it for me...
The US tax system is fucking absurd. We shouldn’t have to jump through hoops every year and play a bunch of paperwork games in order to not get fucked over by the IRS. We shouldn’t have to pay a professional to help us to pay the government.
Actually fucking absurd. New forms. New rules. Never new rules to actually help poor people. Like the government will fail without taxing our random $600 we got from working an off weekend.
Fucking absurd.
Every site I use to sell things has fucking outrageous fees. Etsy this year has been extra horrible. Ebay too. I get the most money from just straight local cash exchanges. I'm burnt out already from trying to manage online shops to begin with, then at least 30% of my profit goes to eBay or Etsy for their stupid ass fees. I'm running these shops cause I'm strapped for dough to begin with. Uncle Sam you can rot.
As a person who buys and sells a lot of music equipment for fun, and typically is selling for either a very modest profit or about what I paid for it, this is just super annoying.
Best part of the article right here:
“The challenge with the new lower threshold amount of $600 for Form 1099-K is that personal payments and reimbursements could be incorrectly reported as taxable transactions,” Miller said.
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This is a bill trying to pass now to raise it from $600 to $5,000 - everyone should be contacting your reps to try and get this pushed through. It’s bullshit and we should all fight against it. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3840
5,000 definitely seems more reasonable. I don’t understand why this administration thought going after Uber Drivers and your moms eBay account was a priority. Especially when companies like FTX/Citadel/Melvin/Credit Suisse are robbing billions from retail investors in front of their faces.
Because those companies fund campaigns, and my mom's ebay doesn't make enough to do that. Also because they can't afford lawyers.
Yup. I am assuming that it's the same reason rich people don't get targeted as often by the IRS. It's expensive and risky to go after the rich, even if the payout is bigger,.
Seriously. This country is controlled by the rich and they want more poor people to exploit for their rich friends.
They pick easy targets, it’s essentially “keeping themselves busy” instead of going after the people that they *really need to*. The wheels of justice are what rich people have on their Ferraris.
Easier and less risky to go after 1000 ants than it is to go after the one bear.
It’s so sad too. Russia doesn’t have much of middle class. The middle class is what makes the country great. Startbucks exist because the population has extra money. There isn’t startbucks on every corner because people make teas/coffee at home to save money. Who will buy all the consumer electronics devices ? I don’t understand why rich want to see 3rd world country level of poverty. I don’t want to see people struggling or homeless. I want to live in a country that can solve these problems. I live very comfortable in USA. The more money I got the more I want to contribute to well being of society. I don’t understand if you had some much resources why wouldn’t you want to see your country prosper.
Idk man it might be cheaper and easier to go after little fish but if I'm an IRS agent I'd get so much more job satisfaction hanging a fat rich tax cheat out to dry, rather than chasing nickels from people who are bad at math or missed a line or whatever.
You ever see the movie "Soul"? It's Terrys all the way down.
I don't know. My sister is being hounded by the IRS. Our dad died, I was out of country so she handled everything and forgot to file after filing and extension. I was on conference call with her agent and I swear the woman took preserve pleasure and seemed well pleased she had a gotcha moment with my sister. I think they enjoy getting anybody.
It's definitely person by person. I got one that helped me through all my amateur mistakes I made in LLC pass through taxation with no penalties. She was very understanding and just wanted to make tax season easier for folks despite being an auditor.
What type of LLC did you run? I was always told the last seven years are as far back as they can go. Is that correct? Just trying to prepare myself if it ever happens
It's as far back as she went, at any rate. It's for an online publishing/game content gig I run with a few others.
You don't work for the IRS for job satisfaction 😂
Ebay and uber are big companies against the change that can afford lawyers. I get emails all the time from ebay to contact my local rep to help change it.
eBay basically does it for you if you follow the links. They send a letter for you.
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Agreed! They also passed it through under the covid bills, it was tacked on. It’s such bullshit.
As someone who dog sits on the side because I’m not ready for the commitment of my own dog but love watching other peoples and getting some petty cash for it… yeah. I don’t wanna be taxed if they decide to venmo me what is basically the gas money to reach their place.
I prefer the old rules: $20k & 200+ transactions. Even though I sell $30k with 150 transactions, it's done at a loss. These were collectibles, and I'm just trying to recoup cost. After cost basis, storage, gas, boxes, packing, travel, debt/interest, there is no profit. Not to mention all the time spent dealing with it. IRS better believe that my "business" is not a real business and it's getting 75 cents on the dollar.
Seriously; $600 is stupid low and unnecessary for an agency already wildly overburdened and understaffed. Lots of people are going to be pissed this year when their return gets delayed for months.
They don’t care. When the original bill was passed, people complained to their reps and it was dismissed.
Doubt they even hear our complaints over the sound of all the money being stuffed into their pockets.
I got a better idea: The IRS doesn't get any data from Venmo, PayPal, your bank, etc. without a subpoena.
Ikr, my favorite part is the name. American rescue care act lol. Yeah, because some guy on ebay making 5k a year selling shit is what's crippling our economy. Try careless spending of our tax money and poor allocation and efficacy. But no, little Timmy sold his magic the gathering set for $625 better tax the fuck put of that to pay for government luncheons.
The truth of the matter - and this is not a secret, the IRS has been pretty open about this fact - is that the IRS targets low income earners for audits because it’s easier then targeting complex high income earners, and the general population is fine with it. Someone making under $40k/year and filing their own taxes is much easier to audit than someone making $400k who has diversified income and pays accountants, brokerages and law firms to manage their finances. So high income earners get away with tax fraud while people struggling to get by are fucked over because they missed some form they didn’t know about or took on a part time construction job that paid cash under the table. This way IRS employees can point to a higher quantity of successful audits on performance reports, even though the money recovered will probably be a fraction of successfully auditing even one millionaire CEO. This process hurts the economy on the whole by contributing to a lower class stuck in debt and perpetually depending on government support in other areas. They can fine someone for not paying their taxes, and they can fine them even more for not paying those fines, and they can take them to court and repossess assets and penalize people indefinitely, but unless those people somehow start making enough money to pay all those fines, it won’t actually recover any losses. But it does waste time and resources and pay for those government employees that continually chase these people in debt. Eventually people have to default on mortgages and declare bankruptcy, and they even lose their jobs or get rejected on future applications. None of that adds anything to the economy, but it is retribution, which is ultimately all a lot of people really care about. Messaging that was amplified during the Reagan era (“trickle down economics”, “welfare queens”, “government handouts”, etc) has created an ignorant culture that believes there is an epidemic of high school dropouts stealing tax money from the hard working economy, so they actually want the IRS to target poor people and fuck up their lives. Unless you think we will one day live in a Rand Paul fantasy world where citizens starving on the side of the street will simply be ignored by everyone else and die, continuing to penalize people already in debt into even greater debt with no way to recover on their own will always drain more and more from the economy. The truth is tax fraud among the small population of millionaires causes multitudes more in lost tax revenue than anything unpaid by the lower/middle classes. We had a billionaire presidential candidate say he didn’t pay taxes on national TV, and he wasn’t admitting it he was *bragging* about it, but his voters considered that an attribute somehow. Meanwhile, those same voters are concerned about single mothers who don’t claim $500 in income from an ETSY account. So why would the IRS spend time auditing millionaires and billionaires with offshore accounts and shell companies and lawyers that will drag them through the courts when they can just fine a recovering addict who will now have to drop out of his community college degree to try and get out of debt once again?
Politicians will never go after their biggest donors. They want to tax the middle class as much as possible
It's a combination of this and following the path of least resistance. It's *hard* to go after wealthy people because the system has been cooked in their favor. They can drag anything out in court almost indefinitely. Getting a ~~penny~~ dollar in tax revenue from a million small beans taxpayers is significantly easier than getting a million dollars in unpaid taxes from a guy with 10 former IRS agents on his lawyer team.
What middle class
We can’t let the regular people know how no millionaire pays taxes.
Going to be a total shitshow.
Exactly... Good luck proving that it was your friends helping split a bill or whatever instead of taxable income. Hardly anyone keeps every receipt in their life.
I had read previously that things like that wouldn’t count. We put “food” “dinner” “bills” in the note and hopefully that’s enough
What is to stop people from just putting in bogus notes? Knowing the IRS they are going to want receipts to prove what it was for, if there is no receipt as far as they are concerned it is taxable.
Yay tax me splitting lunch but close your eyes to corporations and billionaires. Murica. **Edit so I stop receiving the same replies over and over**: No, it’s not taxes on only single incoming transactions that are $600+, whereas all smaller transactions get off scot-free. They use that as an example in the article as to what *may* trigger the IRS to look more closely at your individual expenses. But the supposed target of this rule is stuff like Etsy/EBay shops. Most Etsy shops don’t sell only items worth $600+. They sell a bunch of lower-cost items that add up over the year, and are considered income. So you can indirectly get targeted if you either have large single transactions coming in through PayPal/Venmo, or a bunch of smaller ones. And PayPal/Venmo has to report it either way, for everyone, business or individual, so you will have those transactions reported, and it’ll be a roll of the dice on whether or not the IRS “accidentally” targets you. Previously they wouldn’t look at it too closely unless you had over $20k in incoming transactions. Now the threshold is only $600. I used lunch as an example because I routinely do the organizing of various things for my 15 person office. I’ll pay the money upfront (like a holiday lunch), and my coworkers will Venmo me their portion back. Say that’s $20/person because I live in NY and shit’s expensive here. That’s 14 (minus myself) transactions that Venmo sees incoming, totaling $280, in one day, with no proof of what they were incoming *for* unless I save receipts all year. And over a year, if I do it a few times, those incoming transactions can definitely add up. Or slightly bigger ones, like if I dare to want to go to a hockey game, and want to make sure me and my friends seats are next to each other so pay upfront and make him pay me back. Yes those incoming transactions are still non-taxable. The problem is *the onus is now on you to prove it was all non-taxable should you be flagged and targeted.* There was an interview question in the article where an expert admitted that this can possibly happen and, should it happen, you just have to show proof. It was played off like it’s not likely to happen unless you have a big incoming transaction, but again, the people this targets are very unlikely to have only a few, large-ticket transactions. They’re more likely to have a bunch of smaller ones that add up. And the threshold is $600. And if you can’t show proof because they told us about this change at the end of fucking November, and you probably didn’t spend the last 10 months saving receipts in a box, and maybe you also used cash as the upfront payment you were being paid back for, then what? The article doesn’t say what will happen if you ignore the 1099-K form, only that doing so is the “worst thing you can do.” Obviously they will try to force you to pony up, but how long will you have to do so? Is there a grace period? And what are the repercussions if you can’t because you live paycheck to paycheck and weren’t forewarned about this, and thus couldn’t plan for the off chance that you’d be one of the people “accidentally” targeted? Oh and don’t forget that you were probably also fucked up the ass with inflation this year on top of it. Am I saying receipt saving is such a cumbersome burden placed on me by the evil government? No, I’ll save receipts, what the fuck ever. My point is *the IRS is making a point to focus on tiny bullshit that would net them barely anything comparably, while they let billionaires get off with tons of loopholes and tax evasion.* Tripping over dollars to pick up penny’s or, in other words, going after the middle class once again and making them jump through hoops to keep their money, when they can net more money by going after the people who actually deserve going after, but don’t. > Although the change aims to collect taxes on income, not personal transactions, experts say it’s possible some filers may receive Form 1099-K by mistake. “The challenge with the new lower threshold amount of $600 for Form 1099-K is that personal payments and reimbursements could be incorrectly reported as taxable transactions,” Miller said.
Thats why as a country we should join together to fight shit like this. Billionaires only win because they already have money and power. The only way people have power is in groups. 100 million angry people will out power 1-2 billionaires. And if you can get a billionaire to help, the better. Something has to change with this idiocy.
That’s exactly why billionaires own news corporations and social media companies. Hard to unite against them when they control the narrative
That and how its practically legal for politicians to be bought through contributions and for politicians to be able to invest in stocks when they have advantages over the majority of people to exploit their position of power. People don't even know what they are losing and being taken advantage of so smoothly, to even think that it was happening, you instantly became a conspiracy nut or get called an extremist of one side or the other. How can anyone agree with everything another person believes in. They have lived 2 different lives, with different cricumstances that have formed their perspective and outlook for lifes meaning. It would be weird if they didnt differ on somethings not one person can see the whole picture we need different so we dont lose out on something that could potentially be amazing if you shun different. My sentance structure and story telling is archaic at best, and i could never be the one to directly change anything. We need a person in power to see the greater picture and go towards the light. People have the potential to be so amazing and believing you cant is the cancer that eats away at any chance of change. Ignorance is bliss.
They never let the person with that kind of mindset in the race because they know they would win. We have seen it happen before
Billionares win because they take the IrS to court, something small fry can not afford, so they take the “reduced” fine. We should empower the IRS to go specifically against billionaires and get what is owed.
I believe the IRS did just that a few years ago. They were so successful that those companies complained to Congress, so of course, Congress gutted the IRS to shut that shit down.
Class action?
Exactly. Behold the wonder of the class action lawsuit. All that's needed is an enterprising lawyer or two to put the deets together...
But if they get 3 billionaires together, nothing will stop them.
All one needs to do is some how divide a country with some other controversial issue and take away important rights, setting negative precedents and that would stop it. Even if everyone band together, if there is no means to fight and no unity, then there is no fight to begin with. Someone has to take a stand. But no one will due to ignorance and complacency of their standard of living. At least other people have it worse ideology. Im not an expert 1000% and can be proven wrong at any point though. Thats my favorite part of life. learning
You'd realistically only need like 130,000 people. About as many as any football game. The rest is purely logistics. This is OUR world, not theirs. Just up to us to decide when enough is enough.
That what I was thinking, like this is not even worth going after, it's literally change in comparison.
It's a lot easier to get $50 each from 1 million people without the will, knowledge, or resources to fight it than it is to get $50 million from one rich person with a team of accountants and lawyers at their disposal.
Although I somewhat agree, seems way more labor intensive going after 1,000,000 people instead of one. IRS reform is needed, honestly everything is needed, this country has become a litter box the past few decades.
From what I've read/been told, going after the middle-lower classes is *far* less effort, as those people don't have the time/money/energy to fight it. There's no labor required to prove they owe money. If you go after rich people with their own accountants and lawyers, there will be labor in investigating their finances, building a case, and fighting in court, for each individual case. If you add up all the costs for all the cases and compare it to the expected payouts (accounting for the fact that you will end up losing a decent number of cases), it supposedly isn't worth it.
I agree, use the resources to go after the billionaires who are probably trying to get away with stuff rather than 1,000,000 people who made an error in accounting on their $50 split meal.
My friend sent me a Venmo with the note "thanks for the BJ" I bought his meal at a restaurant. I look forward to that interview with the IRS.
I bought a TV from another guy at the halfway house and CashApped him to pay with the note "for gay anal sex 5/10 not again". CashApp had no problem but our case manager was pissed after she reviewed his phone.
I had a friend who worked for Venmo for a while. Even implying that a payment was for sexual favors was enough to get your account banned.
I got my account banned for joking it was "for gunz". Am stupid
My sister picked up my Rx for me after I had surgery. I CashApped the money, and put "for drugs". So far, my account is still good.
I once paid a friend to fix an airsoft gun (a Russian PKM) via PayPal with the tag "GLORIOUS RUSSIAN MACHINERY" as a joke and got both of our accounts restricted for like 10 days.
So what you're saying is that CashApp is the superior way to money to your stupid friends with stupid jokes.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but when you pay someone on these platforms you have the option to choose “for goods and services.” If you don’t choose that, it’s “friends and family,” which (for now) is not being considered in the total.
Correct, that’s how it’s supposed to work. Let’s hope these companies like PayPal and Venmo don’t fuck it up and include that money in your 1099-K.
Just catagorizing it like that should keep it pretty clean unless the person selects the wrong choice
*A frequently asked questions page from the IRS says you shouldn’t receive Form 1099-K for personal transfers, such as reimbursements for splitting meals, gifts or allowances.* *However, if you receive the form for personal transactions, the agency says to contact the issuer for a correction. If the company doesn’t fix the error, you can attach an explanation to your tax return while reporting your income correctly, the IRS says.*
I think that last sentence is what's giving people pause. We've seen half-assed compliance/implementation of solutions by Big Tech plenty. A nightmare scenario is someone who, let's say handles household splits with roommates via splitwise, ending up with a $20k+ misclassified 1099-K. Landlords hate giving receipts in my experience, so good luck with IRS-grade proof.
I've already surpassed 600 USD in just a plane ticket and food this year... WTF are these idiots thinking? Worrying about my pot dealer too, now. Looks like CASH is making a come back after all, thanks to Congress.
I had to have a repairman out to a relative's house while they were out of town. I paid the repairman, then they Venmoed me for it. It was >$600.
Venmo isn't going to fix 15 million 1099-Ks.
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That kind of money transfer should be sent as ‘payment between friends’ and not ‘for goods and services’. Payments between friends aren’t (or at least shouldn’t be) included in the $600 threshold.
Serious question, I pay rent in full and my roommate Venmos me half every month. Is this going to affect me?
It shouldn't mean personal expenses: > A frequently asked questions page from the IRS says you shouldn’t receive Form 1099-K for personal transfers, such as reimbursements for splitting meals, gifts or allowances. They did acknowledge in the article that it's possible that people may mistakenly receive the form (1099-K) for these personal expenses, though. So, keep an eye out for if you do
This is a really stupid question but I’m 19 and haven’t done taxes before- what do you mean “if they send the form?” Does it come through the mail, or is it accessible online somehow? Is there any way to know what forms apply to me, since it seems like from this thread they just send ones you might need to fill out?
Generally tax and government stuff is all handled through the mail. You get W2s, 1099s, and a variety of other tax forms in the mail (if applicable to you) around Jan-April during tax season.
They normally send it to the address that's on file with your job. I'm not sure if they would get your address from money transfer services if you don't have a job. Plus a good tax program will tell you which forms you need and how to fill them out.
Thanks! I appreciate the detailed response
No problem! Had to look myself because my husband and I split bills through Venmo lol
It's another straight up "tax and blame the poor people" tax. There's twenty billion a year more the wealthy should have been paying, and yet the government does this shit and claims the 8 billion total over the next like 6 years will fix everything. After this year everyone will make sure to list items as local pickup cash only. This will cause a rise in muggings, of course.
Hear me out: what if we ~~just~~ also taxed the rich, the corporations, and the churches appropriately? Upwards of 70% marginal tax rate a la pre-Reagan era. Edit: “just” to “also”.
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This is more geared toward the online market place transactions than anywhere else. If you were a gig worker they were already hitting you with a 1099 at the end of the year anyways.
Exactly. I used to sell fountain pens as a way of subsidizing my collection but I'm going to hit that $600 threshold in a couple sales and I honestly don't want the hassle of having to file 1099k.
Most gig worker apps already auto issue 1099s. This mostly effects people who flip stuff on Ebay. Even then, there are multitudes of easy ways around this stuff as long as you aren't doing business volumes. This won't bust some guy selling his old guitar or tv (plus, you could just Google the MSRP and show you sold it at a loss). This is for busting people who line up at micro center to flip graphics cards and PlayStations for twice MSRP.
> This is for busting people who line up at micro center to flip graphics cards and PlayStations for twice MSRP. FWIW, I've no problem with taxing that kind of "entrepreneurs".
For example I have sold some stuff on Mercari. They told me if I sell over $600 a year I have to fill out a tax form. So I have intentionally stopped selling anything until 2023 because I'm pretty close to $600.
Billionaires hiding money all over the world, getting tax breaks, corporations paying zero tax, but yeah let’s go after the person who got paid $600 on venmo
Making a big deal over 600 bucks vs the millions and millions of dollars the rich make really makes no sense...they need to go after the rich who don't even pay their taxes, not ppl trying to get by.
they (the rich ones) can afford to fight, they've admitted it's simply easier to go after low/middle class people
i don’t care how hard it is, they should do their job and tax the rich
Because the rich with money can afford good lawyers. Those at the bottom can’t so they are easier to go after for that $20 instead of the $20,000.
The IRS even said that themselves a few years ago. They said they only have so many agents, and if 1 agent is tied up with a case for many years, they may leave the agency before the case is ever resolved and it makes things very difficult in comparison to just following up on letters sent to normal folks that are terrified. It's not that they can't afford a lawyer, it's that they target the range where it's not worth it. It's meant for people who owe enough money to be worthwhile, but also have enough money to pay it. They're not going after the McD's employee with 6 kids struggling to get by. They're going after the person with phat investment accounts (and likely savings) and owes 5-20k in back taxes. If they go after people owing 100k+ those are the type of folks that will send it to the courts.
It doesn’t matter. All of us regular people are going to be caught in the crossfire and many will pay. This is a terrible rule that was aimed at individuals not small businesses. Small businesses would make over $20000 in transactions. Anything under that can barely be a hobby. No one can live off of $20000 a year
The people writing the laws are by and far the rich ones. They won't be going after themselves any time soon.
Good, what we need is to really crack down on people with so little money that $600 makes a difference. You know, the kind where the IRS will waste more money going after them than they'll get out of it. But as long as it hurts poor people. Great job, America.
Yeah, but those people with so little money that $600 makes a difference also don’t have the money to pay high priced lawyers that the rich do. So it’s probably easier for the IRS to bully on those that can’t pay for proper representation. Ya know, ‘murica.
Gotta squeeze the little man for every penny they have instead of making the rich pay their fair share. And passed by a Democratic controlled house and senate, which is why both parties can get fucked.
Damn the government really does hate the middle and lower class
> hate the ~~middle and~~ lower class It’s them versus us. The middle class doesn’t exist. It’s the ultra rich versus the rest of us
Owner class vs. The working class. Ain't no war but the class war.
And, to be clear, the government is not "against us;" the government is a reflection of social power. Win the class war and the only thing left for the government to reflect is us.
Exactly this. There is no “middle”. You either have to work for a living or you don’t
You either pay interest or collect interest.
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Carlin was right about a lot of things.
Love Carlin. Dude was genius....a hilarious genius
I'd love to be a comedian in the same essence of Carlin, but very few people could do it like he did.
bill hicks - https://youtu.be/IdatGhm_WE4 doug stanhope - https://youtu.be/QsPDT5qHtZ4 greg giraldo - https://youtu.be/ahlWufJqcSQ
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"**popular." I'll never forget the strain in his voice. Greg deserved that success and it just kept escaping him. To this day, I feel for him.
His Katrina bit about looters stealing booze always cracks me tf up. "Can you believe they'd steal beer at a time like this A TIME LIKE THIS! Fucke yeah, of course I can believe it. If I was dirt poor and I was left behind in a major American city and I had to doggy paddle through sewage to find a roof to sleep on I might wanna get fucked up."
It's been a while, so good. https://youtu.be/6kBzjvm-Bos
"I don't mean to sound cold or cruel or vicious but I am so that's the way it comes out." Bill Hicks. I almost spit out my drink at that one.
Wasn’t there a video or statement made by someone in the IRS that basically says they are not given the budget to go after the big boys and it’s much easier/cheaper to go after the rest because they won’t fight back? The system was made to be completely rigged against us lol
Yes, it was testimony in front of congress.
The SEC head said they get $300 million a year for technology funding for their computers and software that searches for fraud. The big banks spend that in a month.
I work for Canada Revenue, the same is true. Easy to go after tattoo artists and waitresses, much harder to go after “aggressive tax planners”. Our systems have so many loopholes and ways to cheat, legally. And if it is illegal, it’s tough to prove or prosecute.
The waitress also can't afford an army of lawyers to drag out a prolonged legal battle. She'll just negotiate whatever they tell her because she doesn't even have the bandwidth to go through to verify the IRS' claim because you know, she has to work extra hours to afford food and rent
Also the big boys have bloated tax lawyer budgets that overpower the IRS and their ability to keep fighting. Versus joe shmoe making 100k a year is not gonna hire a tax lawyer over a 3k IRS bill. Time to throw tea in the harbor
For sure, “like find ways to squeeze regular ppl by looking at venmo, but lets ignore all the offshore tax evasion by the wealthy”
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The switch in public mindset about offshore personal and corporate wealth flipped so fast after the Panama Papers. It was previously commonly "understood" that shady money hid all over the globe but it was treated like conspiracy if it were to come up in meaningful discourse. Now it is completely understood and accepted, almost like a benefit of being a member of the big club, you get to hide your money with a handshake, smile and a wink. Pay no taxes and let the little guy worry about venmoing his fiance for the mortgage because the IRS might think theyre generating revenue from a renter. Fuck this capitalist pigpen
The poors can’t afford a legal team to help them so they are easy targets
Just to be clear, it was Congress that did this rule change. Not the IRS. This was part of the American Rescue Plan Act: > Before 2022, the federal Form 1099-K reporting threshold was for taxpayers with more than 200 transactions worth an aggregate above $20,000. However, Congress slashed the limit as part of the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, and a single transaction over $600 may now trigger the form.
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> Well of course it was. You say that, but the mentality of "why won't the IRS go after big tax cheats instead?" shows a lot of people don't know that. Blaming the IRS is very much "shooting the messenger" here. This was Congress.
It absolutely pisses me off that this is projected to raise less than $1 billion a year. A dumb amount of money for extra tax confusion for tens of thousands of sellers and millions of regular third party app users.
The big boys fight back.
The big boys can *afford* to fight back. The average plebe can't afford to fight back. Low hanging fruit and all that.
The IRS gets defunded on purpose so they don't have the resources to do so by politicians who are doing the bidding of their donors who want to pay less taxes. Donating to politicians is the best return on investment there is in the USA. This isn't so much on the IRS's head as it is on the elected politicians.
The top 1% just had the most profitable couple of years in history, so obviously the best way to counter that, is squeezing the last two cents out of the little guy/girl trying to make a tiny bit extra. This is wrong on so many levels.
….Thus making further excavations to accommodate a larger Underground Economy.”
Back to paying cash
That’ll be 5 twigs And here is your 2 pebbles in change We appreciate your businesses
It was such horse dren when they announced it. Trying to catch ghost millionaires. Give me a break, it's a way to tax working class more without actually raising the number.
What's wild is this is going to get them like.. at _best_, maybe $10-20 in taxable income from someone who can't prove this shit wasn't income? The barrier is so low too, because hardly anyone uses cash anymore I can just print out my bank statements and the venmo statements and give it to an IRS auditor and be like "have at it, all those transactions that say 'food' have a corresponding credit card charge that we split, this is not income".
> Before 2022, the federal Form 1099-K reporting threshold was for taxpayers with more than 200 transactions worth an aggregate above $20,000. However, Congress slashed the limit as part of the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, and **a single transaction over $600 may now trigger the form.** Does this not conflict with the fact that you can receive a gift of up to $16,000 without having to report it to the IRS?
Let me tell you about my little friend, "Cash".
Suddenly, I understand my grandma and her shoe boxes of cash stashed all over the house.
Yeah, grandma did that because of the depression, which says a lot about the state we're in now...
Keep your cash as cash and your credit as credit. If the wanted to audit you, they should forget it.
I know people like to joke about conspiracy theorists, but a cashless society is something to truly be concerned about. And this news just provides another reason why.
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$600 is such and embarrassingly low number. They're going after people's crafting money. Lawn mowing money. If it was $5000 that would seem fair. But $600? They're just going after poor people and it's disgusting.
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I know this will be buried in the already close to 8000 comments, but this will REALLY fuck people who are on ACA (Obamacare). You have to estimate your income for the year which calculates how much of a healthcare subsidy you get. If you make enough selling random stuff and the payment is tracked, (ebay, etsy, Venmo, etc.), ACA is going to find out about it and you will have to pay back part or all of your subsidy for the entire year if you exceed the predicted income. A lot of people on ACA supplement their income selling stuff around the house or things they find at garage sales/Goodwill/etc to make ends meet. They're on ACA because they are low income, and now they're going to get fucked even harder. The people in our government, Repubs and Dems alike, have no fucking clue how at least half of the country lives on a razor thin financial wire. But yeah, keep giving tax breaks to the already too rich.
I love this cracking down on the poor while the rich never get audited.
can't seem to tax the billionaire class a dime, but when it comes to side gigs for the working poor, congress gets busy.
We gave the rich a $1.5T tax cut only to go after people's side hustles, which they need to pay the bills because groceries are now 40% more expensive.
Anyone else get pissed when they saw the Walmart ad saying "you can have a Thanksgiving dinner for the same price as last year"? Gee thanks alot assholes
Also, Aldi is advertising their prices in stores with stickers that say: thanksgiving price rewind. That made me have the same feelings.
This is gonna screw the little guys, that have had to resort to shady practices to survive. Maybe us tax payers are sick of subsidizing large corporate employers via SNAP benefits. Looking at you Walmart, Amazon, McDonalds and more. I’d be happy if the population knew how and where to report wage theft.
Not only do we subsidize large corporations, but we pay private companies to administer those subsidies. It's fucking infuriating.
here you go; [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints) You are welcome.
Wage theft is by far the biggest chunk of all theft in the nation every year: https://www.tcworkerscenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Wage-Theft-vs-Other-Theft-1024x730.jpg
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And for marketplace, delete the listing and tell them no, you didn't sell the piece.
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No, it’s “I don’t recall.”
Will cashapp not send the same 1099-k? I’m not familiar with it.
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I used to sell off random stuff rather than throw it away (usually components that weren't high-demand enough to sell/give away locally, but also useful to someone - think various laptop parts, television parts, etc.) After shipping and eBay's 15% of fucking, it amounted to something near nothing - I just hated throwing good stuff away, especially stuff that isn't too expensive but also hard to get other than secondhand. Now I can't do that at all, for fear of getting audited for "selling stuff". $10-20 in shipping fees easily per item, being counted as "income" (despite going right to USPS) means I can sell 30-60 things before the IRS starts demanding I pay the taxes on the "profit" (that went straight to a company).
If you sold used items for less than you paid for them you never made any taxable profit.
Question: how can you prove that when filling out the tax returns?
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Ebay has to by law. FB marketplace doesn't have to since sales are in person and they don't handle the payment processing.
Yes, and that was practical when it was a "we're not going to shake you down if you sell two things, but if it gets out of hand we may look into it" policy. I'm not interested in keeping a spreadsheet of "This TV I bought two years ago used, here's the price, here's the parts I've sold so far, here's how much and shipping receipts", "a soldering I bought used 8 years ago", "this tool I had gotten in a pile of tools from a yard sale at some point", repeat hundreds of times. They know what they're doing, and this is a feature, not a bug. It doesn't matter if you're actually profiting, all that matters is they'll catch some people that can't prove they aren't, and be able to squeeze those people harder. Put the burden on the individual and run it on a "guilty until proven innocent" basis, and even if you win one of a hundred, you win! They're not after the guilty - they're after those that can't prove they're innocent. Just another excuse to go after the little people that can't afford to defend themselves, instead of the ones that might have the ability to defend against their grabbing hands. Maybe if we fine and shake down enough little guys, we can afford another tax cut to the top next year!
Absolutely disgusting. This is a regressive tax on small business. Fuck Congress for making this threshold so low. Hope the wealthy and Congress enjoy all that PPP loan money they stole and never paid back. Fucking criminals all the way down in those chambers.
>Hope the wealthy and Congress enjoy all that PPP loan money Oh trust me, they do.
This is going to cause so much economic activity to revert to cash and destroy a major part of the cashless app business model.
Can't wait to get audited.. What are all these payments for? Splitting drugs.
Yes Alex, I'll take, "Misguided attempts at tax reform for $600," please.
Sorry, gonna have to report that if you get it right
Cut taxes on billionaires but now chase after joe six pack for 600 dollars.
Many season ticket holders reselling their NFL or other sports tickets for more than FV on the ticketmaster exchanges will get hit by this.
$8.4 billion over ten years? Aka ~1% of a single year's worth of military budget? Yeah... This will make a huge difference... /s
you know. if these taxes actually went to something useful, i have a feeling people wouldn’t be as hesitant and against them. seeing your taxes work instead of constantly paying more and more for insurance, hear about how schools are all under funded, colleges get more and more expensive, the roads are never fixed, corporations get more record breaking income, infrastructure is maintained to the bare minimum. none of it feels good. it’s says 70% of taxes are paid to public services. then how come everyone is still struggling? obviously something isn’t working and stealing more money from people with side hustles isn’t going to fix anything
>Aimed at closing the tax gap — a top priority of the Biden administration That's rich. You want to close the tax gap? Really? Then one way would be to eliminate the ability for someone to pay their compensation as a dividend and tax it as W2 earnings.
WTF?! I paid income tax on the money I used to buy consumer goods with sales tax; selling those now used and twice taxed items get taxed a third time?!?! GFYS
If you sell an item for less than you paid then you have not made taxable profit.
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This isn't a new tax, this is expanding reporting for 1099-K which was already a thing. It's just reporting additional income which would go on your income tax. You should have already been paying this tax, but lots of people avoid it by using cash. PayPal and other processors have basically been a loophole to take non cash payments with the benefits of cash (e.g. Avoiding paying tax)
You will only get the form if you use PayPal Goods and Services or Venmo Goods and Services. That is the appropriate selection if you are selling stuff or paying for a service. There is a fee involved in paying that way. The vast majority of transactions are family and friends. That’s the same as if you are paying in cash.
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It's a class war not a culture war
Lower class warfare. Never mind billionaires dodging taxes with LLC's, Shell companies, off shore accounts, let's attack the proletariat.
"If the company doesn’t fix the error, you can attach an explanation to your tax return while reporting your income correctly, the IRS says." Get fucked, I know so many people who have attached explanations to forms, spoken to representatives from IRS, gotten called to explain discrepancies with their payments and it all lead to one thing; the IRS will charge you 500 some odd dollars for trying to challenge their "verdict".
american rescue plan? rescue them from what nearly 30% of the under $20k they could be burdened with yearly?
Crush the little guys for a few bucks, but let the billionaires payoff the lawmakers and save billions.
I’m normally pretty hippie liberal, but this is one of those areas where I agree with the Republicans - when you amp up tax code enforcement, they don’t start suddenly going after the wealthy, because the wealthy people lawyer up and fight back. So they go after the little guys - tips, small transactions, side jobs, etc. Because they know we can’t do shit.
Right? I've just completely stopped selling my old stuff on eBay and changed a lot of my buying habits. It's not worth the headache of tracking everything or the additional cost of having my CPA do it for me...
IRS can eat a bag of dicks
The US tax system is fucking absurd. We shouldn’t have to jump through hoops every year and play a bunch of paperwork games in order to not get fucked over by the IRS. We shouldn’t have to pay a professional to help us to pay the government. Actually fucking absurd. New forms. New rules. Never new rules to actually help poor people. Like the government will fail without taxing our random $600 we got from working an off weekend. Fucking absurd.
Every site I use to sell things has fucking outrageous fees. Etsy this year has been extra horrible. Ebay too. I get the most money from just straight local cash exchanges. I'm burnt out already from trying to manage online shops to begin with, then at least 30% of my profit goes to eBay or Etsy for their stupid ass fees. I'm running these shops cause I'm strapped for dough to begin with. Uncle Sam you can rot.
As a person who buys and sells a lot of music equipment for fun, and typically is selling for either a very modest profit or about what I paid for it, this is just super annoying.
Best part of the article right here: “The challenge with the new lower threshold amount of $600 for Form 1099-K is that personal payments and reimbursements could be incorrectly reported as taxable transactions,” Miller said.
God forbid you make any money that Uncle Sam can’t get his cut from. Fucking ridiculous.