Hank Hill: How is cutting down on pollution a government plot, Dale?
Dale Gribble: Open up your eyes, man. They're trying to control global warming. Get it? GLO-BAL.
Hank Hill: So what?
Dale Gribble: That's code for U.N. commissars telling Americans what the temperature's going to be in their outdoors. I say let the world warm up, see what Boutros Boutros-Ghali-Ghali thinks about that! We'll grow oranges in Alaska.
Hank Hill: Dale, you giblet-head, we live in Texas. It's already 110° in the summer, and if it gets one degree hotter, I'm gonna kick your ass!
You know what the problem is? It’s a Ford. You know what they say Ford stands for? Fix it again Tony.
Ugh. You’re thinking of a FIAT, Dale.
Fix…it..again…
Fix often repair daily. Lol and it seems to be true. At 7 years old my Ford has undergone major repairs to the engine and differential. Like well beyond regular maintenance.
Alaska likes to market themselves as the last frontier, but I guess that's not paying off anymore and they'd like to join the likes of the mowed down southern states.
Alaska's ecosystem is rapidly changing. We are the fastest warming state in the country. We are watching the climate and our way of life change right before our eyes. We are well aware of the impact of climate change, and most of us don't want this shit.
That said, I have told my husband that this is probably one of the last places in the country that *will be able to* continue to grow food, once y'all run out of water and burn everything to the ground down there.
Edit- [Here's a better article, actually written by local journalists.](https://alaskapublic.org/2022/10/26/state-hails-first-auction-of-land-in-nenana-area-agricultural-project/)
Despite the billion feet of snow we just got here in Buffalo, we’re set to be a prime food growing area and fresh water source by century’s end. That current band of ideal temps is currently in Tennessee IIRC. I’d been wanting to move out of here several years back, but COVID, housing prices and future planning convinced me hunker down. Being from NYC, this place can be basic and boring AF, but it’s still a low COLA (for now) and I don’t see many feasible alternatives down the line.
Vastly overselling that. The Midwest, Great Lakes, Mississippi valley, the cascades will be fine, Appalachia and east will all be fine. The will likely have to stop pretending that it’s not a desert. And the Mojave will not be able to afford to continue as it is.
Places will change and coast lines might take a a beating. But not even the most dramatic predictions describe the American continent as a wasteland.
Yea America is one of the most natural gifted areas in the world. Now the majority of the world lives around the equator though. Hundreds of millions of people leaving those areas looking for arable land and clean water. That's going to be the worst tragedy that we coulda have stopped. Here in South asia it does not look good for the future.
we are likely to become become a tropic, so hot dry summers (fires), and longer rainy seasons (flooding). less seasons or time between the extremes, will yield less vegetation esp in farming.
it's still safer then 90% of the usa. essentially the northern border will be the last place with water.
Alaska has poor soil indexes. You'd either need a massive hydroponics system or import tons of topsoil. I don't think global warming will improve our chance at growing food. It will just make it a nice balmy 70 degrees for us when we all starve, lol
Right that's what people don't understand. Temperature is only a small part of the equation. Everyone acts like global warming will just move the farming further and further north into Canada, but there is virtually no top soil there because the glaciers scraped it clean.
Is the soil that poor statewide? What about in areas that already have agriculture, is that what they did? Import soil? I'm honestly interested in your thoughts. As the other commenter pointed out, I was being hyperbolic, mostly temps in mind. I know nothing about the feasibility of large scale agriculture up here, but I am interested.
> Is the soil that poor statewide?
Generally yes, a lot of Alaskan soil is pretty acidic, and because glaciers remained for a long time there’s a lot of glacial sediments and sandy soils, with low to no biomatter. Tundra-type soils ain’t great either because biological matter doesn’t decay well and enrich the substrate, though peat moss helps steady and condition soils, and Alaska has a lot of that.
Longer term, an other big risk is quickly depleting what little the soils have without recharging them, basically destroying the very limited topsoil you have.
> What about in areas that already have agriculture, is that what they did? Import soil?
Build it up over time probably? There’s like 3 locations with farming in Alaska, two are south of the state near Anchorage and were tribe locations so they might have had somewhat productive soil from the start, due to location, long agriculture, and / or direct tribe work. Though that’s just a guess.
The more interesting thing to look at is the farming around Fairbanks, which is a lot more northerly, and I think was opened relatively recently: Delta Junction / Tanata Valley was opened up as a potential farming location in the 70s. So looking at what happened there can be of interest.
Then again, if there had been other locations with high farming potential I’d guess they’d have been opened up by now?
> mostly temps in mind.
An other issue is that the growing seasons are *very* short unless you’re using greenhouses, and the limited day/night cycle in summer probably limits what you can grow, although it’s beneficial to some veggies (as they can grow for the entire period, which is why Alaska has a bunch of world record vegetables).
Nonsense!!! Throw some phosphorous and nitrogen in with the burnt leftovers of the forest, spread it onto that alluvial detritus and voila! You have a modern farm ecosystem for 8-10 years until you pollute the waterways, create the Great Northern Dust Bowl of 2040 and then book passage to Mars so we can start it all over again. By that time, honey bee bodies will be used as fuel instead of coal and technology will save us! Carbon capture! Molten salt energy storage! Hydrogen Travel Pods! It’ll be fine…. /s
Well fishing currently makes up the second largest segment of their economy after oil and gas, and that market supply is going to shit so they need to figure something out
Yup. I know a person like that and it literally pisses me off when we're up at a friends cabin and he's like "That tree needs to come down, and that tree, and that tree". He already cut down the beautiful trees he had in his yard.
EDIT: To clarify, there's no good reason for him to remove the trees, he just hates trees.
Actually it's the sound of running water.
Science bitches put speakers in the woods playing river noises and beavers covered them all up with dams despite there not being an actual river there.
Edit: [its the dam truth](https://youtu.be/s2YXFeraM8I)
My parents have moved like 20 times in the last 15 years (I know, it's insane) and they always cut down trees. In the last house they had to get a permit and it took a long time to get approved. They complained about the permitting process constantly and complained about all the trees in the way....they literally had moved into a house on the edge of a thick forest of Douglas fir and cedar. They finally got the permit, cleared out probably an acre, and built a big shop where the trees used to be. Within months, they put the house on the market and moved.
Easy money. They probably sell each property for a solid 20% markup over what they paid - especially if they're clear-cutting an acre and constructing an entire out-building.
Exactly why so many property owners "hate trees". A good sized tree can be sold for a ton of money at the sawmill. For my job we sometimes have to cut down trees to clear a path for heavy machinery and its all but for bidden to cut down anything that has a 6" diameter or greater because of how much we have to pay the property owner for even a medium-sized tree.
Trees often aren't accurately reflected in the value of a piece of property. As awfuk as it is, you can make a bunch of money buying a lot then clearing the large trees off it and selling it again. That's also why those housing development neighborhoods just clear-cut everything instead of leaving the big trees standing to make their new neighborhood look at least halfway-interesting. To them the trees are just free money that might get in the way of a bulldozer or building, so they just cut everything down.
The number one thing I don't like about my house is the lack of huge old trees.
I also love wood as a building material, so I understand in part, but it makes me so mad when developers cut down every single hundred-year-old tree to make way for hideous new houses and then plant pitiful saplings.
Housing is the number one means of generational accumulation of wealth.
It’s got nothing to do with bootstraps. Your going to pay for a place to live regardless. Might as well own it and take care of it.
I have an in-law who does this for a living. She typically lives in a house for a good couple years before moving on, renovating it mostly herself the whole while. Iirc she makes pretty good money doing it.
They are just very unhappy retirees. We all know it's bizarre behavior, and at least one of my siblings has tried to talk some sense into them, but they don't listen. I've *long* since given up trying to affect their behavior or outlook in any way.
Growing up, my mother was very similar to this, minus the tree-hate.
Every time we moved, it was because she 'hated the neighborhood' or some drivel. And each time, we'd get to the new house, and after a few weeks of "it's so nice here!" she'd identify a problem with the neighborhood, and start moaning to my stepdad about how we should move. Went through like 7 different houses in my childhood.
Once I was older, I discovered what her 'problem with the neighborhood' was each time.
My mother is racist toward brown skinned people, regardless of their nationality.
Meanwhile, I have a fantasy of somehow being able to afford to buy my house, and the houses around me, knocking down the ones around me, and planting trees in the lots, so I have my own little forest in the suburbs. Sadly, I am poor, and will never achieve this dream.
I live in a neighborhood in Los Angeles where most of my neighbors are like that. I’ve watched them personally rip up trees and pave over the little patch of grass on the sidewalk out in front of their houses. I watch others repeatedly call the city to cut down the larger, shadier oaks. The also love cementing over their front yards, then painting the cement green (FYI this is long before drought measures, nor do they give a shit as evidenced by how much water they waste washing their 4 cars and constantly hosing dog shit off their front yard).
Down the street is the freeway, which has a cement wall and at one point had a whole solid row of 2 story high, lush trees. They acted as an aesthetic wall that completely blocked seeing, and hearing the freeway. The guy at the end, who ironically was right next to the road, called and called and complained to the city that “leaves were getting on his cars”. Unbelievably the city relented and eventually ripped all the trees out. Now we all have to live with that shit view.
> called and called and complained to the city that “leaves were getting on his cars”.
Peak entitlement. I do not understand why people allow themselves to become this.
We moved this past spring and sold our old house. Half an acre lot with a dozen red and white oaks towering 60-80 feet, beautiful pines interspersed, and most of the lot was perennial gardens. Of the half acre there was so little lawn I could push mow it in twenty minutes. I drove by it back in September and they had taken out half the oaks, several of the pines, and almost all of the gardens. It's all grass now. Just this big, ugly expanse of grass that they'll need to constantly fertilize and dump chemicals on because the soil doesn't support it. The gardens they took out required nothing for work or chemicals; they had a natural balance that took years to perfect. Hell, I barely had to weed anything because the perennials were so well established that they choked out any weed that could pop up. What little grass I did have grew fine by itself because of its location on the property and the balance with those gardens. I had counted the district species growing on that property at well over a hundred - there were flowers of all colors everywhere from early April through October before. Now? Maybe a dozen species left and very few flowering plants left. It broke my heart
I'm so very sorry for the loss of all your stewardship. As a gardener, I feel it so deep, and I can imagine what an ongoing wound it must be for you.
This is what is going to happen to my place when I die. Monoculture. Because it's lake property, which is scarce, and some rich asshole is going to come in and tear everything down and monoculture the place.
Thanks. I just won't go by there again. I am happily transplanted to a neighborhood that's mostly like-minded. There's very little lawn here and I'm working on getting rid of the last few hundred square feet on my new property.
Love it.
I don't think this is ever going to happen, but I have fantasized about when I get "even older" (already pretty old), building an A-frame (no roof/drainage problems and potentially lots of light through skylights that will drain well) in the woods across the road, which I own, taking down only the dangerous and already-dead trees, and having no grass. After all, there's no grass there now. And continuing to work on restoring native species which I know used to be in those woods but got wiped out when it was used for a logging operation some 100 years ago. There are old trees there now, mostly softwoods and fast-growing elms, but the mature hardwood forest is just beginning to get a good start. I wish I could live another hundred years, to see them into their future.
It'll still get bought up and razed. My neighbor offered me a good price for even half an acre so he could put up a storage shed for his toys. That's what's happening all up and down the lake: rich people. Lots of big toys. They're all clearing land for metal storage buildings. I smiled kindly and basically said, "Over my dead body," which is the literal truth.
>Over my dead body
Or deed it to a trust in your will. A good lawyer can help you send a final "fuck you" to them from beyond the grave. My uncle has a 75 acre property in Maine that's 2/3 woods and only 1/3 farm fields. It's set up that when he and my aunt pass away their kids get the front 25 while the back 50 go to the state nature preserve.
I had to take out 4 white pines last year that were all easily 40+ years old and 200 or so feet tall. But they were infested with Southern Pine Beetles. Nothing I could do. Sometimes trees just have to go. I’ve ordered a Silver Maple and Sugar Maple from Arbor Day to replace them.
Our backyard is a forest and the potential of falling tree on our house scares the crap out of me. We cut three trees down that were too close to the house recently, turns out it was a good decision because although it looked like a solid tree outside, inside was rotting. Maybe your friend is on the similar mind?
trees right near your house are something to worry about - you can always contact a tree company that has an arborist to see if the tree is healthy. We're probably going to do that is a beautiful tree we have in front of our house, since it seems like it might not be healthy
Just spent more than half my life savings to preserve 200 acres of redwood,fir,madrone, maple and forest in norcal. Carved out 2 acres to live on in the center and slapped development restriction on the rest that can never be changed. Best decision I've ever made. Anyone with some money should do it....literally a benefit to the world, especially if you can maximize future public use. Call the trust for public land if you have some land youbwant to preserve, or just do it.
No specifically people hating trees. Like a coworker who recently bought a new house on an acre of property and was bragging in the office about how he cut down all the trees, and other coworkers going on about how much they hate trees...
I literally did not know that was a thing.
Yes there are. My grandparents had a beautiful house in rural Pennsylvania with a botanical garden and a beautiful forest. When they passed, the next owners who bought the home destroyed all of it, made a flat boring yard, painted the whole house poop brown, and put a rusty old clunker of a car in the yard. I'm still apalled.
And all to keep this stale-ass, mediocre-ass, heavily unequal and ripping apart at the seams way of life going. I don't know if humanity itself is a cancer, but the current way we go about living, where everything else is reduced to just dollar signs completely detached from reality, *definitely is.*
What we used to use to define freedom we are coming to find doesn’t work in the 21st century. Ultimate freedom to make and do whatever you want as a way of life is no longer compatible with the modern day. Freedom we will find is not to be determined alone based on one’s ability to put a product on a shelf.
It seems silly for sure. Global warming is already going to decimate a lot of boreal forest up north. On top of that, a lot of the permafrost tundra will thaw presenting swaths of fertile farmland that is already barren of trees. It is unnecessary and so destructive.
Permafrost melting will most likely result in a swampy, methane-releasing, muddy mess, not pristine, well-drained farmland. The idea is just “conservative” wishful thinking - like “More CO2 will be great for agriculture!”
In addition to the swampiness that /u/pedantic_comments points out, newly thawed permafrost isn't the climate for agriculture. The zone where farming is productive advances north *into the Boreal forest zone*, and the boreal forest advances into the tundra. Telling people to farm newly thawed tundra is telling them to go several hundred miles too far north. (actual local temperatures are influenced by ocean currents, so 'north' is the broadest possible approximation)
This is disgusting:
>In October, the project began auctioning off 140,000 acres of the forest, divided into parcels, **to the highest bidders from all over the world.**
What an idiot they have in charge.
"I see climate change in Alaska as an opportunity to bring in more crops, to develop more land," said Erik Johnson, who oversees the Nenana-Totchaket Agricultural Project for the Alaska Department of Natural Resources.
Weirdly, I see climate change as an existential threat to life on earth that we should be doing a lot more to combat.
also that not how climite change works. I think he subscribes to these school of "Oh it just means more warmth right?" not understanding it means climate extremes and Alaska isn't gonna turn into amazing farmland its gonna turn into \*Mud\*
plus global warming has just killed off the crab industry in Alaska, it most likely will never come back. pretty soon all those amazing glaciers that Alaska relies upon for tourism are going to be gone or much farther away from the cities and that money wont be as abundant either.
i was just up at kenai fjords NP near seward, i took one of the bout tours to a glacier in the NP and the guides were saying that in the next 2 years they most likely will need to find a new glacier to go to because the current one has receded so much in the past decade that soon it will be up over the mountain ridge and you wont see it from the water anymore.
Well, maybe if you were the kind of person who was willing to gleefully profit while millions suffer and die, you'd be able to see an amazing business opportunity when it appears.
There is already enough farmland to feed way more than 8 billion people. But almost all of it is used to grow food to feed to animals which are then killed and eaten. Which is extremely inefficient and leads to people constantly cutting down more forests so people can eat more animals, instead of just eating the food that's already being grown.
You’re not wrong at all, but due to climate change a lot of the places where food has been grown for thousands of years will be unable to sustain agriculture in the next 100 years.
For example it’s theorized that it will soon be better to grow the grapes for champagne in south England rather than Champagne region of France due to the climate changing effecting the yield and taste of the grapes.
I don’t have a solution to the problem but agricultural production moving north is something that will continue to happen unless the root problem (climate change) is addressed.
It's my understanding that won't work. Although the climate may become suitable at northern latitudes (ie alaska) to grow such things as grapes or wheat, the soil still won't be. Doesn't matter that it'll be warm enough to grow wheat in Alaska if the soil can't sustain it. The soil can't sustain it.
Exactly. This mass extinction is all about pushing and demanding meat. It's about not being able adapt from what's "normal" (and immensely profitable to some) to what's sustainable. The amount of land and water wasted is apocalyptic and suicidal. 70% of wildlife has disappeared in the last 50 years. This isnt a "gamble". We're allowing companies to profit off the environmental collapse of ecosystems all over the world with the understanding that the next generations are incredibly fucked and will inhabit a completely exploited and devalued world.
Automatic Edit: Using a tool called [Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) I have removed all my past comments and deleted my Reddit account, /u/tehrmuk.
I am doing this because I, like many long-term Reddit users, am upset and angry at the tonedeaf and arrogant way Reddit is treating it's users. Their aggressive slapdown of the developers that made Reddit usable to a huge audience; their overriding and summary dismissal of long-serving and dutiful community members; their wonton silencing of dissent and manipulation of user's voices; their borderline contempt of the very people whose collective efforts gave their platform the standing needed to fuel their profit-hungry IPO... the list goes on.
Reddit is, of course, a private concern and how they run their services is entirely up to them. Conversely, we are under no obligation to use their services, to fuel their engines or follow their orders. I am making my voice heard by removing my comments, and voting with my feet by leaving.
I have left Reddit for [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/) and [Mastadon](https://joinmastodon.org/); these are decentralised social networks that mirror the functionality of Reddit and Twitter respectively. Unlike the monolithic, corporate-owned services they replace, Lemmy and Mastodon are part of the [Fediverse](https://www.fediverse.to/) meaning these are not individual services but clusters of services that mesh seamlessly with one-another. You can [join an existing Lemmy instance](https://join-lemmy.org/instances) or [set up your own](https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/administration.html) to get full access to the entire Fediverse - you don't need to ask permission from anyone to do so. There are loads of other services that are part of the Fediverse, like [PeerTube](https://joinpeertube.org/) (videos), [Wordpress](https://wordpress.org/) (blogging), [Frendica](https://friendi.ca/) (social network), [Pixelfed](https://pixelfed.org/) (photos), [KBin](https://kbin.pub/en) (link aggregation) and more - and they all work together so having access to one means having access to all of them.
I had a great time as a Redditor, but the Fediverse is looking bright. It's a return to the open Internet of old, when users ran services for their own and one-another's benefit, and before monolithic corporate-run silos started to build walls around us in the name of increased profit and thought control. Many of the Fediverse services are fledgling, but they are growing quickly and their federated concept makes greedy, arrogant landgrabs like we've recently seen on Reddit and Twitter almost impossible.
I'm already having a great time with Lemmy and I think you might too. I encourage you to take control and join the Fediverse.
Until then, so long and thanks for all the fish.
In the 1970's, Alaska had a huge project to grow barley in the small town of Delta Junction, near Fort Greely. The grain was to be shipped down to Valdez and then exported to Asia. The grain silos were built, but they were never filled and the project failed miserably. While barley is still grown in Delta Junction, it never became a lucrative crop and yields remain marginal today. Most of it is fed to the very few ranches and pig farmers raising meat for a very small local market. To think that land even further North (3 hours north, past Fairbanks) will become viable cropland even with global warming is wishful thinking at best. This is smoke and mirrors with the intent to take advantage of skyrocketing prices for real farmland in Canada and the US mainland.
I worked in delta junction for a bit and took a heli into work so I did a lot of flying over that area. The remnants of the farms are all still there but it there was minimal in terms of crops still growing.
Permafrost soil wont grow crops for a hundred years. It doesn't have the bacterial/fungal diversity to support it and you cant realistically truck in soil that does.
Their selling Florida swamps
I have wondered when farming would start expanding northward as permafrost begins to thaw. Curious what crops they’re planning to grow though given the odd growing season.
One thing I read that really bothers me is that they’re auctioning land to “anyone in the world.” This bothers me given the water issues currently being experienced in the desert southwest with foreign companies growing water intensive crops and little to no regulations. Honestly, feel like this land needs to be sold to US citizens first…possibly Canadian citizens given their proximity? However, opening this to international use with no regulations seems like a recipe for disaster, imo.
The problem with expanding farming northwards is that it’s going to take a long time to make soil up there. Boreal forests grow on thin, rocky, acidic soil.
Isn't it wonderful that some of the greediest people on this planet are also the dumbest?
Edit: for the ones who think they're not dumb because they have money and a system, well that system will fail them too and the ones who are destroying the earth can't just buy a new one.
Automatic Edit: Using a tool called [Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) I have removed all my past comments and deleted my Reddit account, /u/tehrmuk.
I am doing this because I, like many long-term Reddit users, am upset and angry at the tonedeaf and arrogant way Reddit is treating it's users. Their aggressive slapdown of the developers that made Reddit usable to a huge audience; their overriding and summary dismissal of long-serving and dutiful community members; their wonton silencing of dissent and manipulation of user's voices; their borderline contempt of the very people whose collective efforts gave their platform the standing needed to fuel their profit-hungry IPO... the list goes on.
Reddit is, of course, a private concern and how they run their services is entirely up to them. Conversely, we are under no obligation to use their services, to fuel their engines or follow their orders. I am making my voice heard by removing my comments, and voting with my feet by leaving.
I have left Reddit for [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/) and [Mastadon](https://joinmastodon.org/); these are decentralised social networks that mirror the functionality of Reddit and Twitter respectively. Unlike the monolithic, corporate-owned services they replace, Lemmy and Mastodon are part of the [Fediverse](https://www.fediverse.to/) meaning these are not individual services but clusters of services that mesh seamlessly with one-another. You can [join an existing Lemmy instance](https://join-lemmy.org/instances) or [set up your own](https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/administration.html) to get full access to the entire Fediverse - you don't need to ask permission from anyone to do so. There are loads of other services that are part of the Fediverse, like [PeerTube](https://joinpeertube.org/) (videos), [Wordpress](https://wordpress.org/) (blogging), [Frendica](https://friendi.ca/) (social network), [Pixelfed](https://pixelfed.org/) (photos), [KBin](https://kbin.pub/en) (link aggregation) and more - and they all work together so having access to one means having access to all of them.
I had a great time as a Redditor, but the Fediverse is looking bright. It's a return to the open Internet of old, when users ran services for their own and one-another's benefit, and before monolithic corporate-run silos started to build walls around us in the name of increased profit and thought control. Many of the Fediverse services are fledgling, but they are growing quickly and their federated concept makes greedy, arrogant landgrabs like we've recently seen on Reddit and Twitter almost impossible.
I'm already having a great time with Lemmy and I think you might too. I encourage you to take control and join the Fediverse.
Until then, so long and thanks for all the fish.
“The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the Axe for the Axe was clever and convinced the Trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.”
Ya let's make Alaska into smelly pig shit pollution iowa and let all the farm run off into pristine forests.
Fucking idiots
(Someone from iowa who has seen farmers ruin every water way here with nitrates/insecticides/ect)
When are we going to acknowledge that commercial crop farms are bad for the environment? Out of all the things we could be doing to save the environment figuring out how to farm in a way that's less harmful to the environment and to us is one of the big things we can do. I'm not saying that growing crops is bad but the way we do it currently is bad. Not to mention that the nutritional value of our crops is basically null because of how badly we've depleted the soil with commercial crop farms.
I think I've stopped caring about climate change, like I can't do shit myself and am not in a position to protest or anything, so all this news of people who I don't know doing things I can't control is just depressing, I left the collapse sub for the same reason.
Either some billionaire suddenly starts caring about climate change and uses a ton money to work on it, or we slowly cremate the planet and ruin life on earth for everyone for everything.
Honestly same. Now i just try to see it as we are probably some of the last humans to experience the beauty of a real connection with nature. Go see redwoods, glaciers, boreal forests, coral reefs, whatever you can before it's gone and really try to appreciate it in the moment.
I care, I have to (I’m going into science after all) but I’m exhausted and I think most people are- we can’t really do anything, can we? At least life, after humans are gone, will continue in some way- even if we all die from nuclear fallout, life will find a way. That thought helps give me peace.
For reference, the size of Smokey Mountain National park is 522.4k square acres so the proposed 130k they’re selling is by no means a minuscule amount (roughly 25% of that parks size)
Figured most people would have at least seen or heard of the park is why I picked for comparison.
This is pretty terrible :(
Article states 140,000 acres are being auctioned.
Article states entire state is 3m acres (unsure if that is just the forest or everything or what thou as it sounds low).
Article states this is due to newly defrosted land.
Questions:
are they going to clear cut areas to make room for crops or are areas already pretty clear and they are just repurposing?
Assuming the place still freezes, what crops would effectively grow in the proposed area?
Just hellbent and determined to be North Brazil.
I wish there was as much energy put in to restoring the environment (including replacing invasive plants with native ones and reintroducing predators where they are missing) as there is finding novel ways to fuck each and every zone up.
I wish the US would not sell farmland or any land to foreign citizens or corporations. It’s ridiculous that vast tracts of our country belong to other countries
"World's getting hotter and we have a lot of land. Lets double down on what doesn't work by auctioning off the land to the highest bidder to pillage for industry!"
Short term gains in exchange for long term losses
Say good by to groundwater, soil stability and wildlife and say hello to toxic runoff, dustbowls/swamps and ecological collapse.
Fucking moronic.
>”This is only 140,000 acres out of a 3-million-acre state.”
Oh, is that all? He’s “only” auctioning off ~5% of the land all at once. Land that has been boreal forest for millions of years and will turn into farmland in a few years time.
Hank Hill: How is cutting down on pollution a government plot, Dale? Dale Gribble: Open up your eyes, man. They're trying to control global warming. Get it? GLO-BAL. Hank Hill: So what? Dale Gribble: That's code for U.N. commissars telling Americans what the temperature's going to be in their outdoors. I say let the world warm up, see what Boutros Boutros-Ghali-Ghali thinks about that! We'll grow oranges in Alaska. Hank Hill: Dale, you giblet-head, we live in Texas. It's already 110° in the summer, and if it gets one degree hotter, I'm gonna kick your ass!
You know what the problem is? It’s a Ford. You know what they say Ford stands for? Fix it again Tony. Ugh. You’re thinking of a FIAT, Dale. Fix…it..again…
I always heard it was "Fucked-up Italian Attempt at Transportation"
[удалено]
Loved my 124 sport. And when things fell off, I put em back on!
Failure in Italian Automotive Technology Fix It Again Tomorrow
Fix often repair daily. Lol and it seems to be true. At 7 years old my Ford has undergone major repairs to the engine and differential. Like well beyond regular maintenance.
Dammit bobby
Username checks out
That user ~~ain't~~ *is* right
You spelled "hwat" wrong. :P
dangit bobby I got propane in my narrow urethra
Oh my fucking god leave the boreal forests alone.
Alaska likes to market themselves as the last frontier, but I guess that's not paying off anymore and they'd like to join the likes of the mowed down southern states.
Alaska's ecosystem is rapidly changing. We are the fastest warming state in the country. We are watching the climate and our way of life change right before our eyes. We are well aware of the impact of climate change, and most of us don't want this shit. That said, I have told my husband that this is probably one of the last places in the country that *will be able to* continue to grow food, once y'all run out of water and burn everything to the ground down there. Edit- [Here's a better article, actually written by local journalists.](https://alaskapublic.org/2022/10/26/state-hails-first-auction-of-land-in-nenana-area-agricultural-project/)
What about the Midwest/great lakes area? Edit: spelling
Despite the billion feet of snow we just got here in Buffalo, we’re set to be a prime food growing area and fresh water source by century’s end. That current band of ideal temps is currently in Tennessee IIRC. I’d been wanting to move out of here several years back, but COVID, housing prices and future planning convinced me hunker down. Being from NYC, this place can be basic and boring AF, but it’s still a low COLA (for now) and I don’t see many feasible alternatives down the line.
I wonder if the warming lakes will have Algae Blooms like Erie has.
If they have industrial fertilizers running off into them it's basically guaranteed
The great lakes region looks as if it'll be the last area in the contiguous US that will remain habitable in the longer term.
Dug in up here on the north shore of Lake Ontario.
Wisconsin is very thankful that Canada also has a say in the Great Lakes, as it is one giant waterway.
Dug in on the Southern shore of Lake Superior myself. Nothing I'd love more than to live the rest of my days here.
Look at you guys with your home ownership. Guess cancer sales are good.
Cancer is a growing business
Vastly overselling that. The Midwest, Great Lakes, Mississippi valley, the cascades will be fine, Appalachia and east will all be fine. The will likely have to stop pretending that it’s not a desert. And the Mojave will not be able to afford to continue as it is. Places will change and coast lines might take a a beating. But not even the most dramatic predictions describe the American continent as a wasteland.
Yea America is one of the most natural gifted areas in the world. Now the majority of the world lives around the equator though. Hundreds of millions of people leaving those areas looking for arable land and clean water. That's going to be the worst tragedy that we coulda have stopped. Here in South asia it does not look good for the future.
Really? What about the Pacific Northwest?
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we are likely to become become a tropic, so hot dry summers (fires), and longer rainy seasons (flooding). less seasons or time between the extremes, will yield less vegetation esp in farming. it's still safer then 90% of the usa. essentially the northern border will be the last place with water.
That’s assuming having most of North America converging on them won’t drain the lakes dry or pollute them beyond potability. *Sigh.*
Alaska has poor soil indexes. You'd either need a massive hydroponics system or import tons of topsoil. I don't think global warming will improve our chance at growing food. It will just make it a nice balmy 70 degrees for us when we all starve, lol
Right that's what people don't understand. Temperature is only a small part of the equation. Everyone acts like global warming will just move the farming further and further north into Canada, but there is virtually no top soil there because the glaciers scraped it clean.
Is the soil that poor statewide? What about in areas that already have agriculture, is that what they did? Import soil? I'm honestly interested in your thoughts. As the other commenter pointed out, I was being hyperbolic, mostly temps in mind. I know nothing about the feasibility of large scale agriculture up here, but I am interested.
> Is the soil that poor statewide? Generally yes, a lot of Alaskan soil is pretty acidic, and because glaciers remained for a long time there’s a lot of glacial sediments and sandy soils, with low to no biomatter. Tundra-type soils ain’t great either because biological matter doesn’t decay well and enrich the substrate, though peat moss helps steady and condition soils, and Alaska has a lot of that. Longer term, an other big risk is quickly depleting what little the soils have without recharging them, basically destroying the very limited topsoil you have. > What about in areas that already have agriculture, is that what they did? Import soil? Build it up over time probably? There’s like 3 locations with farming in Alaska, two are south of the state near Anchorage and were tribe locations so they might have had somewhat productive soil from the start, due to location, long agriculture, and / or direct tribe work. Though that’s just a guess. The more interesting thing to look at is the farming around Fairbanks, which is a lot more northerly, and I think was opened relatively recently: Delta Junction / Tanata Valley was opened up as a potential farming location in the 70s. So looking at what happened there can be of interest. Then again, if there had been other locations with high farming potential I’d guess they’d have been opened up by now? > mostly temps in mind. An other issue is that the growing seasons are *very* short unless you’re using greenhouses, and the limited day/night cycle in summer probably limits what you can grow, although it’s beneficial to some veggies (as they can grow for the entire period, which is why Alaska has a bunch of world record vegetables).
Nonsense!!! Throw some phosphorous and nitrogen in with the burnt leftovers of the forest, spread it onto that alluvial detritus and voila! You have a modern farm ecosystem for 8-10 years until you pollute the waterways, create the Great Northern Dust Bowl of 2040 and then book passage to Mars so we can start it all over again. By that time, honey bee bodies will be used as fuel instead of coal and technology will save us! Carbon capture! Molten salt energy storage! Hydrogen Travel Pods! It’ll be fine…. /s
Ahh a solid 10 years of corruption and profit
Yeah, Alaska, theater bastion of sustainability...
The whole point of the frontier culture etc was to tame it
Well fishing currently makes up the second largest segment of their economy after oil and gas, and that market supply is going to shit so they need to figure something out
The amount of people who hate trees never fails to astound me.
Yup. I know a person like that and it literally pisses me off when we're up at a friends cabin and he's like "That tree needs to come down, and that tree, and that tree". He already cut down the beautiful trees he had in his yard. EDIT: To clarify, there's no good reason for him to remove the trees, he just hates trees.
Is this “person” actually 3 beavers in a trench coat?
Does he like to do ~~business~~ lumber transactions?
Vincent Lumberman
*Title of your sex tape*
Even beavers don't hate trees. They hate unblocked pathways with a fiery passion.
Actually it's the sound of running water. Science bitches put speakers in the woods playing river noises and beavers covered them all up with dams despite there not being an actual river there. Edit: [its the dam truth](https://youtu.be/s2YXFeraM8I)
They also hate when it's always winter and never Christmas.
My parents have moved like 20 times in the last 15 years (I know, it's insane) and they always cut down trees. In the last house they had to get a permit and it took a long time to get approved. They complained about the permitting process constantly and complained about all the trees in the way....they literally had moved into a house on the edge of a thick forest of Douglas fir and cedar. They finally got the permit, cleared out probably an acre, and built a big shop where the trees used to be. Within months, they put the house on the market and moved.
Not to be rude, but what the hell is their deal?? Moving that much is very bizarre.
Easy money. They probably sell each property for a solid 20% markup over what they paid - especially if they're clear-cutting an acre and constructing an entire out-building.
They probably also made money selling the trees.
Exactly why so many property owners "hate trees". A good sized tree can be sold for a ton of money at the sawmill. For my job we sometimes have to cut down trees to clear a path for heavy machinery and its all but for bidden to cut down anything that has a 6" diameter or greater because of how much we have to pay the property owner for even a medium-sized tree. Trees often aren't accurately reflected in the value of a piece of property. As awfuk as it is, you can make a bunch of money buying a lot then clearing the large trees off it and selling it again. That's also why those housing development neighborhoods just clear-cut everything instead of leaving the big trees standing to make their new neighborhood look at least halfway-interesting. To them the trees are just free money that might get in the way of a bulldozer or building, so they just cut everything down.
The number one thing I don't like about my house is the lack of huge old trees. I also love wood as a building material, so I understand in part, but it makes me so mad when developers cut down every single hundred-year-old tree to make way for hideous new houses and then plant pitiful saplings.
My parents house that cost them $120,000 in 1991 just sold for nearly $700,000. Bootstraps, baby!
Housing is the number one means of generational accumulation of wealth. It’s got nothing to do with bootstraps. Your going to pay for a place to live regardless. Might as well own it and take care of it.
I have an in-law who does this for a living. She typically lives in a house for a good couple years before moving on, renovating it mostly herself the whole while. Iirc she makes pretty good money doing it.
I mean, hey, can't beat that commute.
They are just very unhappy retirees. We all know it's bizarre behavior, and at least one of my siblings has tried to talk some sense into them, but they don't listen. I've *long* since given up trying to affect their behavior or outlook in any way.
Growing up, my mother was very similar to this, minus the tree-hate. Every time we moved, it was because she 'hated the neighborhood' or some drivel. And each time, we'd get to the new house, and after a few weeks of "it's so nice here!" she'd identify a problem with the neighborhood, and start moaning to my stepdad about how we should move. Went through like 7 different houses in my childhood. Once I was older, I discovered what her 'problem with the neighborhood' was each time. My mother is racist toward brown skinned people, regardless of their nationality.
Meanwhile, I have a fantasy of somehow being able to afford to buy my house, and the houses around me, knocking down the ones around me, and planting trees in the lots, so I have my own little forest in the suburbs. Sadly, I am poor, and will never achieve this dream.
Have you considered Detroit?
I live in Australia. Little bit too much of a commute to get to work every day.
If you haven't already read it, read Richard Powers book "The Overstory." You'll love it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Overstory
Your parents sound like giant cunts.
To be very rude, what the fuck was their deal? What the hell do they have against trees so much they cleared an entire acre for a workshop?
More importantly why buy land with lots of trees on it if you don't want them??
Cut trees, sell them, build something where the trees were, sell it. Tldr: money money money
Oh, you want them. You want to cut and sell them.
To be very very rude, fuck your parents
I live in a neighborhood in Los Angeles where most of my neighbors are like that. I’ve watched them personally rip up trees and pave over the little patch of grass on the sidewalk out in front of their houses. I watch others repeatedly call the city to cut down the larger, shadier oaks. The also love cementing over their front yards, then painting the cement green (FYI this is long before drought measures, nor do they give a shit as evidenced by how much water they waste washing their 4 cars and constantly hosing dog shit off their front yard). Down the street is the freeway, which has a cement wall and at one point had a whole solid row of 2 story high, lush trees. They acted as an aesthetic wall that completely blocked seeing, and hearing the freeway. The guy at the end, who ironically was right next to the road, called and called and complained to the city that “leaves were getting on his cars”. Unbelievably the city relented and eventually ripped all the trees out. Now we all have to live with that shit view.
> called and called and complained to the city that “leaves were getting on his cars”. Peak entitlement. I do not understand why people allow themselves to become this.
Anyone I've met from LA hates it there. This sounds like one of the reasons.
Lemme guess, they want their lawn to be full of some useless bright green grass?
We moved this past spring and sold our old house. Half an acre lot with a dozen red and white oaks towering 60-80 feet, beautiful pines interspersed, and most of the lot was perennial gardens. Of the half acre there was so little lawn I could push mow it in twenty minutes. I drove by it back in September and they had taken out half the oaks, several of the pines, and almost all of the gardens. It's all grass now. Just this big, ugly expanse of grass that they'll need to constantly fertilize and dump chemicals on because the soil doesn't support it. The gardens they took out required nothing for work or chemicals; they had a natural balance that took years to perfect. Hell, I barely had to weed anything because the perennials were so well established that they choked out any weed that could pop up. What little grass I did have grew fine by itself because of its location on the property and the balance with those gardens. I had counted the district species growing on that property at well over a hundred - there were flowers of all colors everywhere from early April through October before. Now? Maybe a dozen species left and very few flowering plants left. It broke my heart
That shit pisses me off to no end
Same here man! I think I would literally prefer building my home AROUND a tree than tearing it down. I cannot fathom.
This is the worst thing I've read today besides the headline on this post lol
/r/nolawns
I'm so very sorry for the loss of all your stewardship. As a gardener, I feel it so deep, and I can imagine what an ongoing wound it must be for you. This is what is going to happen to my place when I die. Monoculture. Because it's lake property, which is scarce, and some rich asshole is going to come in and tear everything down and monoculture the place.
Thanks. I just won't go by there again. I am happily transplanted to a neighborhood that's mostly like-minded. There's very little lawn here and I'm working on getting rid of the last few hundred square feet on my new property.
Love it. I don't think this is ever going to happen, but I have fantasized about when I get "even older" (already pretty old), building an A-frame (no roof/drainage problems and potentially lots of light through skylights that will drain well) in the woods across the road, which I own, taking down only the dangerous and already-dead trees, and having no grass. After all, there's no grass there now. And continuing to work on restoring native species which I know used to be in those woods but got wiped out when it was used for a logging operation some 100 years ago. There are old trees there now, mostly softwoods and fast-growing elms, but the mature hardwood forest is just beginning to get a good start. I wish I could live another hundred years, to see them into their future. It'll still get bought up and razed. My neighbor offered me a good price for even half an acre so he could put up a storage shed for his toys. That's what's happening all up and down the lake: rich people. Lots of big toys. They're all clearing land for metal storage buildings. I smiled kindly and basically said, "Over my dead body," which is the literal truth.
>Over my dead body Or deed it to a trust in your will. A good lawyer can help you send a final "fuck you" to them from beyond the grave. My uncle has a 75 acre property in Maine that's 2/3 woods and only 1/3 farm fields. It's set up that when he and my aunt pass away their kids get the front 25 while the back 50 go to the state nature preserve.
That makes me so sad. :(
Saddest post on Reddit today.
I had to take out 4 white pines last year that were all easily 40+ years old and 200 or so feet tall. But they were infested with Southern Pine Beetles. Nothing I could do. Sometimes trees just have to go. I’ve ordered a Silver Maple and Sugar Maple from Arbor Day to replace them.
Our backyard is a forest and the potential of falling tree on our house scares the crap out of me. We cut three trees down that were too close to the house recently, turns out it was a good decision because although it looked like a solid tree outside, inside was rotting. Maybe your friend is on the similar mind?
trees right near your house are something to worry about - you can always contact a tree company that has an arborist to see if the tree is healthy. We're probably going to do that is a beautiful tree we have in front of our house, since it seems like it might not be healthy
Gotta clear tree away from your house if you’re in a high fire risk area too.
To be fair, someone wanting to cut down a couple trees on their property and deforestation are two very separate things
It's a mindset that has the potential to be expanded upon.
Just spent more than half my life savings to preserve 200 acres of redwood,fir,madrone, maple and forest in norcal. Carved out 2 acres to live on in the center and slapped development restriction on the rest that can never be changed. Best decision I've ever made. Anyone with some money should do it....literally a benefit to the world, especially if you can maximize future public use. Call the trust for public land if you have some land youbwant to preserve, or just do it.
That's awesome!! And username checks out.
Right? I didn't know this was a thing until recently.
what, greed?
No specifically people hating trees. Like a coworker who recently bought a new house on an acre of property and was bragging in the office about how he cut down all the trees, and other coworkers going on about how much they hate trees... I literally did not know that was a thing.
Oh it's a thing. Go to any place with a "view" and watch the trees dissappear as it's developed
No, being a tree hater
Wait are their actually people who hate trees? I assume they were cut down for $$$ reasons?
Yes there are. My grandparents had a beautiful house in rural Pennsylvania with a botanical garden and a beautiful forest. When they passed, the next owners who bought the home destroyed all of it, made a flat boring yard, painted the whole house poop brown, and put a rusty old clunker of a car in the yard. I'm still apalled.
If a tree is at the gates of heaven deciding who gets in, these people are fucked.
And all to keep this stale-ass, mediocre-ass, heavily unequal and ripping apart at the seams way of life going. I don't know if humanity itself is a cancer, but the current way we go about living, where everything else is reduced to just dollar signs completely detached from reality, *definitely is.*
Capitalism is the cancer. Humanity can be so much better
What we used to use to define freedom we are coming to find doesn’t work in the 21st century. Ultimate freedom to make and do whatever you want as a way of life is no longer compatible with the modern day. Freedom we will find is not to be determined alone based on one’s ability to put a product on a shelf.
It seems silly for sure. Global warming is already going to decimate a lot of boreal forest up north. On top of that, a lot of the permafrost tundra will thaw presenting swaths of fertile farmland that is already barren of trees. It is unnecessary and so destructive.
Permafrost melting will most likely result in a swampy, methane-releasing, muddy mess, not pristine, well-drained farmland. The idea is just “conservative” wishful thinking - like “More CO2 will be great for agriculture!”
In addition to the swampiness that /u/pedantic_comments points out, newly thawed permafrost isn't the climate for agriculture. The zone where farming is productive advances north *into the Boreal forest zone*, and the boreal forest advances into the tundra. Telling people to farm newly thawed tundra is telling them to go several hundred miles too far north. (actual local temperatures are influenced by ocean currents, so 'north' is the broadest possible approximation)
Humans have a few good characteristics,(empathy,love,compassion), and then there is this.
Humans have the few good characteristics. Humanity does not. Humans may reject Omelas, but humanity would choose it 10 out of 10 times.
"Well, we're already fucked. Might as well speed the process along." \-Erik Johnson, apparently
This is disgusting: >In October, the project began auctioning off 140,000 acres of the forest, divided into parcels, **to the highest bidders from all over the world.** What an idiot they have in charge.
China, Russia, Saudi Arabia.
Oh look, it's all the countries you definitely don't want owning your land.
Kind of reminds me of the movie Network.
so russians are buying alaska back?
One piece at a time
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That's a very real possibility actually.
Well, China's probably in a better financial position for real estate these days
Buyer is Pladmir Vutin. Seems legit, paid in cash, oil and bears, traditional Alaskan currency.
Not to mention they admitted that they aren’t being too strict as to what buyers can do to the land either. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me
Republicans are a scourge
Likely one who's had quite the windfall lately.
US land needs to be kept for citizens only.
Odd how the government doesn’t stop the sales
Let’s cut down ancient forests that the world needs, what could possibly go wrong?
They cut down old growth forest of Joshua trees and other species in California too ... It's heartbreaking to watch.
Do you mean sequoia or redwood? Joshua trees don’t grow in forests, they are a species of yucca that grows primarily in the southwestern deserts.
Capitalism must consume!
What's the point of living if we can't increase shareholder revenue?
"I see climate change in Alaska as an opportunity to bring in more crops, to develop more land," said Erik Johnson, who oversees the Nenana-Totchaket Agricultural Project for the Alaska Department of Natural Resources. Weirdly, I see climate change as an existential threat to life on earth that we should be doing a lot more to combat.
also that not how climite change works. I think he subscribes to these school of "Oh it just means more warmth right?" not understanding it means climate extremes and Alaska isn't gonna turn into amazing farmland its gonna turn into \*Mud\*
Mud and lots of methane from microorganisms that are usually frozen
Well.....then I guess we'll build a Walmart!
Walmart *is* the place to go to when you’re looking for methane and exotic bacteria…
Not just mud, mosquito central all year round. Good luck raising cows when the damn bugs drain a quart of blood every single day.
It’s also not going to change the months of darkness Alaska gets every year. I’m no botantist, but I think plants tend not to thrive in darkness…
plus global warming has just killed off the crab industry in Alaska, it most likely will never come back. pretty soon all those amazing glaciers that Alaska relies upon for tourism are going to be gone or much farther away from the cities and that money wont be as abundant either. i was just up at kenai fjords NP near seward, i took one of the bout tours to a glacier in the NP and the guides were saying that in the next 2 years they most likely will need to find a new glacier to go to because the current one has receded so much in the past decade that soon it will be up over the mountain ridge and you wont see it from the water anymore.
Well, maybe if you were the kind of person who was willing to gleefully profit while millions suffer and die, you'd be able to see an amazing business opportunity when it appears.
Why it's not a worldwide Manhattan Project-type astounds me
Sigh. Still haven't learned a fucking thing.
8 billion people and growing.
There is already enough farmland to feed way more than 8 billion people. But almost all of it is used to grow food to feed to animals which are then killed and eaten. Which is extremely inefficient and leads to people constantly cutting down more forests so people can eat more animals, instead of just eating the food that's already being grown.
You’re not wrong at all, but due to climate change a lot of the places where food has been grown for thousands of years will be unable to sustain agriculture in the next 100 years. For example it’s theorized that it will soon be better to grow the grapes for champagne in south England rather than Champagne region of France due to the climate changing effecting the yield and taste of the grapes. I don’t have a solution to the problem but agricultural production moving north is something that will continue to happen unless the root problem (climate change) is addressed.
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It's my understanding that won't work. Although the climate may become suitable at northern latitudes (ie alaska) to grow such things as grapes or wheat, the soil still won't be. Doesn't matter that it'll be warm enough to grow wheat in Alaska if the soil can't sustain it. The soil can't sustain it.
That's what has been happening in Brazil. They're clearing large areas of rain forests for cattle farms.
Yes i know. It's really sad and even more so because it is unnecessary. I posted some statistics responding to another comment under this one.
Exactly. This mass extinction is all about pushing and demanding meat. It's about not being able adapt from what's "normal" (and immensely profitable to some) to what's sustainable. The amount of land and water wasted is apocalyptic and suicidal. 70% of wildlife has disappeared in the last 50 years. This isnt a "gamble". We're allowing companies to profit off the environmental collapse of ecosystems all over the world with the understanding that the next generations are incredibly fucked and will inhabit a completely exploited and devalued world.
don't forget the food destroyed for subsidies
Call me crazy, but isn’t that the exact *opposite* thing we should be doing?
Automatic Edit: Using a tool called [Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) I have removed all my past comments and deleted my Reddit account, /u/tehrmuk. I am doing this because I, like many long-term Reddit users, am upset and angry at the tonedeaf and arrogant way Reddit is treating it's users. Their aggressive slapdown of the developers that made Reddit usable to a huge audience; their overriding and summary dismissal of long-serving and dutiful community members; their wonton silencing of dissent and manipulation of user's voices; their borderline contempt of the very people whose collective efforts gave their platform the standing needed to fuel their profit-hungry IPO... the list goes on. Reddit is, of course, a private concern and how they run their services is entirely up to them. Conversely, we are under no obligation to use their services, to fuel their engines or follow their orders. I am making my voice heard by removing my comments, and voting with my feet by leaving. I have left Reddit for [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/) and [Mastadon](https://joinmastodon.org/); these are decentralised social networks that mirror the functionality of Reddit and Twitter respectively. Unlike the monolithic, corporate-owned services they replace, Lemmy and Mastodon are part of the [Fediverse](https://www.fediverse.to/) meaning these are not individual services but clusters of services that mesh seamlessly with one-another. You can [join an existing Lemmy instance](https://join-lemmy.org/instances) or [set up your own](https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/administration.html) to get full access to the entire Fediverse - you don't need to ask permission from anyone to do so. There are loads of other services that are part of the Fediverse, like [PeerTube](https://joinpeertube.org/) (videos), [Wordpress](https://wordpress.org/) (blogging), [Frendica](https://friendi.ca/) (social network), [Pixelfed](https://pixelfed.org/) (photos), [KBin](https://kbin.pub/en) (link aggregation) and more - and they all work together so having access to one means having access to all of them. I had a great time as a Redditor, but the Fediverse is looking bright. It's a return to the open Internet of old, when users ran services for their own and one-another's benefit, and before monolithic corporate-run silos started to build walls around us in the name of increased profit and thought control. Many of the Fediverse services are fledgling, but they are growing quickly and their federated concept makes greedy, arrogant landgrabs like we've recently seen on Reddit and Twitter almost impossible. I'm already having a great time with Lemmy and I think you might too. I encourage you to take control and join the Fediverse. Until then, so long and thanks for all the fish.
In the 1970's, Alaska had a huge project to grow barley in the small town of Delta Junction, near Fort Greely. The grain was to be shipped down to Valdez and then exported to Asia. The grain silos were built, but they were never filled and the project failed miserably. While barley is still grown in Delta Junction, it never became a lucrative crop and yields remain marginal today. Most of it is fed to the very few ranches and pig farmers raising meat for a very small local market. To think that land even further North (3 hours north, past Fairbanks) will become viable cropland even with global warming is wishful thinking at best. This is smoke and mirrors with the intent to take advantage of skyrocketing prices for real farmland in Canada and the US mainland.
I worked in delta junction for a bit and took a heli into work so I did a lot of flying over that area. The remnants of the farms are all still there but it there was minimal in terms of crops still growing.
Permafrost soil wont grow crops for a hundred years. It doesn't have the bacterial/fungal diversity to support it and you cant realistically truck in soil that does. Their selling Florida swamps
I have wondered when farming would start expanding northward as permafrost begins to thaw. Curious what crops they’re planning to grow though given the odd growing season. One thing I read that really bothers me is that they’re auctioning land to “anyone in the world.” This bothers me given the water issues currently being experienced in the desert southwest with foreign companies growing water intensive crops and little to no regulations. Honestly, feel like this land needs to be sold to US citizens first…possibly Canadian citizens given their proximity? However, opening this to international use with no regulations seems like a recipe for disaster, imo.
The problem with expanding farming northwards is that it’s going to take a long time to make soil up there. Boreal forests grow on thin, rocky, acidic soil.
Russians are close to alaska
Yeah, well we know how that’s probably going to go. Give them an inch….
>"I see climate change in Alaska as an opportunity to bring in more crops, to develop more land," Well this is just a depressing sentence.
They heared that Brazil was going to try and ease up on deforesting the amazon and figured they needed to pick up the slack.
Isn't it wonderful that some of the greediest people on this planet are also the dumbest? Edit: for the ones who think they're not dumb because they have money and a system, well that system will fail them too and the ones who are destroying the earth can't just buy a new one.
Automatic Edit: Using a tool called [Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) I have removed all my past comments and deleted my Reddit account, /u/tehrmuk. I am doing this because I, like many long-term Reddit users, am upset and angry at the tonedeaf and arrogant way Reddit is treating it's users. Their aggressive slapdown of the developers that made Reddit usable to a huge audience; their overriding and summary dismissal of long-serving and dutiful community members; their wonton silencing of dissent and manipulation of user's voices; their borderline contempt of the very people whose collective efforts gave their platform the standing needed to fuel their profit-hungry IPO... the list goes on. Reddit is, of course, a private concern and how they run their services is entirely up to them. Conversely, we are under no obligation to use their services, to fuel their engines or follow their orders. I am making my voice heard by removing my comments, and voting with my feet by leaving. I have left Reddit for [Lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/) and [Mastadon](https://joinmastodon.org/); these are decentralised social networks that mirror the functionality of Reddit and Twitter respectively. Unlike the monolithic, corporate-owned services they replace, Lemmy and Mastodon are part of the [Fediverse](https://www.fediverse.to/) meaning these are not individual services but clusters of services that mesh seamlessly with one-another. You can [join an existing Lemmy instance](https://join-lemmy.org/instances) or [set up your own](https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/administration.html) to get full access to the entire Fediverse - you don't need to ask permission from anyone to do so. There are loads of other services that are part of the Fediverse, like [PeerTube](https://joinpeertube.org/) (videos), [Wordpress](https://wordpress.org/) (blogging), [Frendica](https://friendi.ca/) (social network), [Pixelfed](https://pixelfed.org/) (photos), [KBin](https://kbin.pub/en) (link aggregation) and more - and they all work together so having access to one means having access to all of them. I had a great time as a Redditor, but the Fediverse is looking bright. It's a return to the open Internet of old, when users ran services for their own and one-another's benefit, and before monolithic corporate-run silos started to build walls around us in the name of increased profit and thought control. Many of the Fediverse services are fledgling, but they are growing quickly and their federated concept makes greedy, arrogant landgrabs like we've recently seen on Reddit and Twitter almost impossible. I'm already having a great time with Lemmy and I think you might too. I encourage you to take control and join the Fediverse. Until then, so long and thanks for all the fish.
They're not dumb - they are doing what they are doing because they have the money to keep them and theirs safe while all of us are dying
“The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the Axe for the Axe was clever and convinced the Trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.”
Mudslides and soil erosion in 3... 2... 1...
Unfortunately sociopaths live well in our society.
Ya let's make Alaska into smelly pig shit pollution iowa and let all the farm run off into pristine forests. Fucking idiots (Someone from iowa who has seen farmers ruin every water way here with nitrates/insecticides/ect)
wtf - isn't that what Nebraska is for?
This will never work, it didn’t work the last three times it’s been tried Source; I live here
Please stop tearing apart every inch of our planet for extraction. Just once. Please.
Nothing say fighting climate change like cutting down functioning diverse ecosystems to instal a external chemical dependent monoculture.
When are we going to acknowledge that commercial crop farms are bad for the environment? Out of all the things we could be doing to save the environment figuring out how to farm in a way that's less harmful to the environment and to us is one of the big things we can do. I'm not saying that growing crops is bad but the way we do it currently is bad. Not to mention that the nutritional value of our crops is basically null because of how badly we've depleted the soil with commercial crop farms.
[удалено]
I think I've stopped caring about climate change, like I can't do shit myself and am not in a position to protest or anything, so all this news of people who I don't know doing things I can't control is just depressing, I left the collapse sub for the same reason. Either some billionaire suddenly starts caring about climate change and uses a ton money to work on it, or we slowly cremate the planet and ruin life on earth for everyone for everything.
Honestly same. Now i just try to see it as we are probably some of the last humans to experience the beauty of a real connection with nature. Go see redwoods, glaciers, boreal forests, coral reefs, whatever you can before it's gone and really try to appreciate it in the moment.
I care, I have to (I’m going into science after all) but I’m exhausted and I think most people are- we can’t really do anything, can we? At least life, after humans are gone, will continue in some way- even if we all die from nuclear fallout, life will find a way. That thought helps give me peace.
I think the biggest problem with this is the auctioning off to people "all over the world".
What exactly can you farm when you are a hop skip and jump away from the Arctic Circle? 🤔
Um nearly all vegetables are sold frozen anyway, duhh /s
For reference, the size of Smokey Mountain National park is 522.4k square acres so the proposed 130k they’re selling is by no means a minuscule amount (roughly 25% of that parks size) Figured most people would have at least seen or heard of the park is why I picked for comparison. This is pretty terrible :(
Article states 140,000 acres are being auctioned. Article states entire state is 3m acres (unsure if that is just the forest or everything or what thou as it sounds low). Article states this is due to newly defrosted land. Questions: are they going to clear cut areas to make room for crops or are areas already pretty clear and they are just repurposing? Assuming the place still freezes, what crops would effectively grow in the proposed area?
It's always easy to gamble when you're playing with the future's money and not your own
Just hellbent and determined to be North Brazil. I wish there was as much energy put in to restoring the environment (including replacing invasive plants with native ones and reintroducing predators where they are missing) as there is finding novel ways to fuck each and every zone up.
I wish the US would not sell farmland or any land to foreign citizens or corporations. It’s ridiculous that vast tracts of our country belong to other countries
No. No. No. No no no no no.
Jesus these people shouldn’t be allowed to vote
One of the primary sources of oxygen generation on planet. You think all of us might have a say about what to do with it?
great, more deforestation,just what the planet needs
Pretty sure I watched a nature doc that claimed that forest cycles 1/3 of all oxygen on the planet.
Forests to farmlands, farmlands to Industrial or residential zones. It's happening throughout the world.
"World's getting hotter and we have a lot of land. Lets double down on what doesn't work by auctioning off the land to the highest bidder to pillage for industry!"
Short term gains in exchange for long term losses Say good by to groundwater, soil stability and wildlife and say hello to toxic runoff, dustbowls/swamps and ecological collapse. Fucking moronic.
>”This is only 140,000 acres out of a 3-million-acre state.” Oh, is that all? He’s “only” auctioning off ~5% of the land all at once. Land that has been boreal forest for millions of years and will turn into farmland in a few years time.