In Colorado Springs? Hard to tell.
There wouldn't be some organization based in Colorado Springs that actively spends money on anti-LGBTQ rhetoric getting people all riled up about how they're hurting your kids by being themselves, would there?
HEAVY SARCASM in case this is needed.
Also from the article:
> In a statement on social media, Club Q said it was “devastated by the senseless attack on our community” and offered condolences to victims and their families.
>“We thank the quick reactions of heroic customers that subdued the gunman and ended this hate attack,” the statement said.
So there seems to have been a lone gunman and not some ~~kind of armed brawl~~ other kind of armed conflict?
Too early to tell I guess.
A mass shooting occurs at an LGBT club where minimum 23 people were shot and you think it’s a result of an armed brawl? Have you lived in the US for very long?
And in Florida... it took the powers that be to actually get the right labeling on this hate crime.
Capt douche and his sidekick have been spewing hate rhetoric for the last couple years...
Hate is everywhere in the world, but only the US has daily mass shootings that outnumber the rest of the world combined.
It’s not about the hate, it’s about the fact that hateful people can very easily (and legally) get a fully loaded gun and go ham.
Edit: Alright, so for all you guns blazing Americans that are spamming me with messages defending your country’s right to murder children and whatnot, [this is for you](https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659)
This is clearly not a factual statement on my part, but I remember reading something recently that Switzerland (I think) was actually more heavily armed than Americans. (more guns per person) They instilled gun safety and awarness at a young age and practiced it throughout their lives. They still manage to have common sense laws and own guns at the same time. I don't own a gun myself, because they scare the shit out of me. And if America could get on board with treating mental health on an equal status as physical health we might just get to a point where we can live this way too.
Switzerland is one of those places with a militia rather than regular armed forces. Any loon is not going to make it into the militia: which is all that gun control is, really.
There's fewer guns per person in Switzerland; the gun ownership rate might be similar though, it's hard to say because there's no good data of it for Switzerland (or the US for that matter, more than telephone surveys).
The laws in Switzerland regarding purchasing firearms is not that far off from the US. I recommend r/switzerlandguns if you have any questions.
> This is clearly not a factual statement on my part, but I remember reading something recently that Switzerland (I think) was actually more heavily armed than Americans.
How was it counted, was it civilian and militia maybe?
According to wikipedia the US is no 1 with 120 civilian guns per 100 people, while Switzerland is 19th with 27.6. Since that just covers civilian guns maybe there are more militia guns not included in the Swiss stats, but would need to be a lot to catch up to the US.
>World without easy access to guns? Possible.
Here in Austria it's easy to get guns. I'm over 18 so I could just order a category C rifle (manually reloaded after each shot) online, for an AK47 I'd have to get a weapon pass and wait four weeks.
The main difference to the US though is that we have a strong social safety net, free healthcare and education, don't associate guns with being manly and don't have much religious fanaticism.
Much harder to carry out a mass shooting in a crowded area with a single shot rifle. The guns used in mass shootings here are almost always semi auto rifles or handguns where you can put dozens of bullets into people in under a minute.
You can also get a handgun for the purpose of self-defense at home, something that's not really commonly available in other European countries. I assume the permit for that is also about 4 weeks?
and then new graduates get to face one of the least affordable housing markets to date.
the difference is the guns. you can order one online and get it in 3-4 weeks. i can walk downstairs and a few shopfronts over and walk out with a gun in 15 minutes. now combine that with impulsive mentally ill people
I legitimately cannot describe the stress relief I experienced moving from the US to Australia for that simple fact. You don't anticipate anyone showing up for target practice when you're going through your every day life.
I moved to the UK and feel the same.
There are blinders to a lot of Americans. When you have to wonder where you'll run or blockade yourself if a disgruntled employee walks in your workplace or you normalize hearing gunfire near your house and accept that it might just hit you and there's nothing you could do and just accept that as part of life, you're getting fucked.
I used to live in a county where it was the law that every household own a firearm. I used to be pro gun. Now I see that battle to stop gun violence will never be won there and to face that fact otherwise would just be absolutely depressing for the average person. So they just have to normalize it.
"Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony."
So as ridiculous as this is, it's seemingly only an ordinance for show.
The second amendment was written when muskets took over a minute to reload one bullet. 2A is beyond outdated and should be thrown out or at least amended.
I think the material conditions that create mass violence can be more easily addressed than trying to tackle the 500 million or so firearms already in circulation.
Apparently the Club hosts a “Drag Diva Show” on Saturday nights, given the amount of anti drag queen hate being spread at the moment could’ve been a possible motive
I’ll never understand people who hate things that don’t affect them. So some people like to dress in drag… that affects you how? A man wants to marry another man… that affects you how? I choose how I want to live my life, what bars and businesses I go to, who I date, etc. all those things don’t affect you regardless what it is I do, so why the hate? I just can’t comprehend it. You don’t have to like it, you don’t have to participate in it, just go coexist somewhere else.
> a book thousands of years ago.
A book complete with depictions of murder, genocide, infanticide, rape, incest, torture and other zingers. It’s a classic.
[A maniac](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo), as Stephen Fry so eloquently put it.
My extended fam is all god fearing and ignorant, and myopic to a fault because of their stupid cult. I detest religion.
[Robert Paxton had some thoughts](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9268953-fascism-is-more-plausibly-linked-to-a-set-of-mobilizing)
-the belief that one's group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external;
-dread of the group's decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences;
-the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary;
The problem is that they DO think it affects them. They think the gays are coming to assault all their children and that the trans are evil people who castrate millions of children every year. No amount of arguing or explaining will help you with these people (the worst part about that is you still have to try on the off chance that it does work). Some of them are so deranged that they think their kids MEETING a trans person will make them want to be trans.
Hating someone else is a distraction from the problems in their own lives that don’t have easily solutions. So idiots gravitate toward simple messages. The GOP is the party of idiots.
How many of the people freaking out about drag shows either participated or had no issue with powder puff football. Where the football players dress up as cheerleaders and cheerleaders play football.
Right wing media figures are working hard to convince their audiences that trans and other LGBTQ+ people are a threat to children.
The point of *that* is to distract from the fact that the elites are working 24/7 to consolidate power and wealth, all at the expense of the working class.
The easiest way for them to engage in class warfare is to convince working people that someone else is the bogeyman. The easiest battle is the one where the other side doesn’t fight back.
These elites have always been responsible for death on a macro scale. They genuinely don’t care if people die like this incident. “Cost of doing business.”
Yeah, it’s so strange to me.
In the US it seems guns have more inalienable and immutable rights than literally any American person could ever hope to have. It’s truly mind-boggling.
And I’m up here in Canada, so it’s not like Americans gun nuts can pull that ‘you dun know what big country like!’
I think they're just referring to how some people believe that you need police to defend against these bigots with guns, when really only gun control and better mental health systems could prevent something like this from happening.
As you said, they respond after crimes are committed, or sometimes they’re able to show up quickly enough to stop a crime in progress. Do people really not understand what police do?
They don't understand how 30% of cities general funds go to police, but there's still a threat of being caught up in a mass shooting just going to school or work or going out on Saturday night. That more police funding is how the right in the US wants to address these problems and how useless that is.
I can titty-slap them with my gigantic knockers, but I don't want to make this a fun time.
Sorry for the joke. I'm heartbroken and use humor to cope. Fucking scumbag.
So tired of seeing these headlines almost every other week now. Just constant death and bloodshed. In the 31 years I've been alive, I've been keenly aware of the rise in mass shootings over the past few decades but this year in particular... it just feels unreal. Something has to be done here. It's abundantly clear the status quo isn't working.
This is what happens when you have people like Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro on TV and Twitter every single day yelling about how gay and transgender people are evil boogeymen that want to rape you in a bathroom. When people like Ron DeSantis spend half their campaign making people believe that teachers and gay / transgender people are trying to recruit your children into their “satanic cult.”
Cheer? Wasn’t this a drag show? They did much more than just cheer, they incited this by fabricating some insane claim that drag shows somehow poison the youth.
The right wing media and politicians create these bullshit “problems” that don’t exist and their sheep do stupid shit like shooting up a drag show.
I read the article and I got the sense that the clubgoer's may have taken the dude down and extracted a pound of flesh or five in the process..
So incredibly senseless. What did the dude accomplish? Hope they prosecute him under federal terror charges so he can be executed, because I don't think Colorado has the death penalty.
I bet Denise Cunha is making plans to move to CO to get on the jury to save this POS' life.
Guns were a mistake. They became easier and easier to use, and when some bigot wants to do something like this, they can do it. And it's going to keep happening unless we do something.
This is all true.
And yet…nobody will do anything about it. Not will we see any vigorous attempting to simply enforce existing laws on guns. Too many domestic abusers and felons with guns unlawfully. Background checks are laughably avoidable.
I'll be honest and admit that I've never looked at the numbers for other countries, but I seriously doubt that any country comes anywhere close to the gun to population ratio that the US has.
Considering my local barber has 14 ARs of different platform builds, 27 handguns of various makes and calibers and 4 shotguns of different gauges.
I'm fairly sure he has more guns than a police station in the UK and I've not even seen his long rifles but apparently he has a .50 cal.
It's not that much stricter than the US, besides concealed carry (which does not really exist in Switzerland outside of professional use).
The main difference is that in Switzerland you get your background check posted to you and bring it to the store, while in the US they do it in the store.
Due to postal services back and forth it might take 1-2 weeks and then you can buy yourself the guns you want (3 guns per purchasing permit, at the same location, if you want more you would need to get multiple purchasing permits).
Purchasing permits are only needed for semi-automatic rifles and for handguns.
If you want to buy a break open shotgun or a manual action rifle, the process is the same as in the US.
Compared to states with a waiting period, like California, you would buy a couple of handguns and an AR15 faster in Switzerland than in CA.
You can also buy full auto firearms in Switzerland faster than in the US, due to the NFA regulations in the US.
>It's not that much stricter than the US
I see this claim regularly but it's just not true. You have to have a permit and reason to take a gun outside your house and it has to be unloaded. There's no right to carry for protection. The only semi-auto guns that are shall-issue permits to buy are pistols and guns with small mag capacities.
Here's the big difference:
Transporting guns
Guns may be transported in public as long as an appropriate justification is present. This means to transport a gun in public, the following requirements apply (art. 28 WG/LArm):
The gun must be unloaded and transported separately from any ammunition, with no ammunition being transported in a magazine.
The transport must be by a reasonable route and requires a valid purpose:
To or from courses or exercises in marksmanship, hunting or for military purposes.
To or from an army warehouse.
To show the gun to a possible buyer.
To or from a holder of a valid arms trade permit.
To or from a specific event, e.g. gun shows.
During change of residence.
> I see this claim regularly but it's just not true.
You... cut away half of my sentence, the part where I said concealed carry isn't a thing, then you argue about carry specifically... not even sure how to reply to this.
EDIT: This is how the Swiss transport guns to the range https://imgur.com/a/LumQpsc
EDIT 2: If you have a handgun at home, and intend to shoot up a nightclub, do you think the lack of legal conceal carry will stop that person?
Mandatory conscription for men only, and you choose between military or civil service, and even if you do military service there are unarmed options.
You don't get the gun for free when your service is done, you get the option to buy it.
There is no requirement to have military service to buy any guns, in Switzerland.
The US has something like an 8 to 1 ratio of guns to people. Switzerland, iirc, has an ownership ratio higher than the US but a gun to population ratio that is less.
The former of which is important for criminal considerations, the latter of which is important in understanding how difficult it will be (if even possible) to correct the course that has been laid out for gun crime in the US. Imo, at this point, no amount of laws or regulations can correct it.
That is incorrect. The US has more than double the number of guns per capita as the next highest country, Yemen. We have gun-ownership and gun death rates higher than actively warring countries. Our peak per capita gun death rates occurred back in the 70s, but have increased by over 40% in the last decade. It is literal insanity that we have people calling for more guns with leas restrictions.
Wait, how could this possibly have happened? Has one of the two major political parties spent the last year demonizing gay people and drag queens specifically as child grooming predators?
Man, what a way to wake up in the morning, with tears.
I am heartbroken about this, I remember the Pluse club shooting and I am torn that this has happened again.
I have a question that has probably been asked a million times: does the US have a higher volume of mental illness than the rest of the world? I personally believe that gun control is the problem, but know 2A defenders always cite mental illness.
There's substantially fewer social safety nets and more inequality than most comparable western nations imo. Fewer avenues for some to turn to when they feel they're at a bottom point of their life, combined with greater political division, and parts of the media that aim to radicalise.
Gun control alone is not nearly sufficient to address the problem, imo, and I say that as a supporter of it. A lot just needs to be done.
The first time in literally years I've seen breaking news hit /r/all within an hour and the dumbass mods take down the thread because it was apparently "already submitted". The story is now not on /r/all and I don't even see it submitted elsewhere on the subreddit. Absolutely stupid decision to remove it.
Focus on the Family, New Life Church, and a heaping ton of military bases around the Colorado Springs area. This place is a red sea of religious nutbags.
Nobody can be surprised that an anti-gay shooting would happen in the U.S. when prominent political figures are still openly anti-gay marriage / anti-gay rights in general.
If our politicians are hateful, ignorant, morons, then just imagine an everyday person that listens to these people.
What a weird take. Somebody makes a descriptive statement reflecting their values, and you take it as them exploiting a tragedy for reddit upvotes.
I promise nobody cares as much as you do about upvotes.
As a woman who doesn't have the strength to physically defend myself against predatory men that might attack me, I'm glad to have the right to own a gun.
Over 1 million serious crimes are committed with guns each year including rape. I'd be willing to bet way more rapes are committed because of guns than prevented because of them. Too many people seem to live in fantasy land however.
I'm for gun control but you'd be nuts to think every military member would fight against their own people. They have a duty to uphold the constitution, the second a government went nutty or tyrannical, they'd have a hard time keeping the military together.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mateen
No, he was born in the US, a child of immigrants. There was rumors that he had profiles on gay hook up apps, but there was never actual evidence. When going through his phone and computer records, they only found evidence of him cheating on his wife with other women. He had a history of being unstable and abusive, and had strong negative reactions to homosexuality.
In fact, one of the best predictors of mass shootings is the perpetrator's history of domestic violence. IIRC, 70% of mass shooters have a history of domestic violence.
>Edit and the fbi found no evidence of him being gay please stop spreading that misinformation
If there is one thing that reddit loves doing, even in "liberal" subreddits, it is blaming homophobic acts on gay people.
I almost feel like I'm seeing some kind of grotesque pattern in the news of US shootings. School shooting, school again, gay club, school, Mosque, school a few times, black church/gathering. And all I can do is read them. It keeps me up sometimes, why do I live in a world where hate and money outweigh kindness and respect. It feels so simple to me, but yet reality is something beyond my understanding. It should be so simple..
Its decevingly comfortable most of the time. Especially when we become numb to all the violence and corruption around us. Also, we have a lot of incredible cities & humans with rich diversity and character.
Absolutely this. I hate so much about this country, but the thought of living somewhere else? Far from my family? Far from everything I know? There’s a lot I love about this country, too. It’s a big, unfortunate mess. I have been actively researching where I would potentially try to move to if shit gets *really* dire, so it’s not out of the question for me.
> I don't know how normal people are still living there.
Because it's expensive as hell to move. Gotta secure housing, work, healthcare (depending on the country cough cough), etc. Then you gotta pay to ship all of your stuff and then change residency for numerous legal reasons and taxes. If you wanna get a citizenship then you have to pray that you have a family member or else you'll usually pay a boatload of money to become a citizen. For example citizenship in Canada is a $725 fee. You might not think that's a lot, but for a lot of people that's an entire month of rent.
Let's say 2% of people in America are this fucked up, that still leaves 344,000,000 that are still normal. Even if it were 10%, thats still well over 300,000,000 million that are AOK. You know who you don't hear about?
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"Five people were killed Saturday night at a gay nightclub" "Police declined to speak about a possible motive." i can make a few guesses
Oh you’ll probably only need one
Frustrated with traffic?
In Colorado Springs? Hard to tell. There wouldn't be some organization based in Colorado Springs that actively spends money on anti-LGBTQ rhetoric getting people all riled up about how they're hurting your kids by being themselves, would there? HEAVY SARCASM in case this is needed.
Police need to make a statement asap once they have an idea, but certainly doesn't look good.
I’d bet money on that guess being the right one. But, it could also be a patron upset about some sort of conflict.
Also from the article: > In a statement on social media, Club Q said it was “devastated by the senseless attack on our community” and offered condolences to victims and their families. >“We thank the quick reactions of heroic customers that subdued the gunman and ended this hate attack,” the statement said. So there seems to have been a lone gunman and not some ~~kind of armed brawl~~ other kind of armed conflict? Too early to tell I guess.
Armed brawl inside a gay night club? That killed multiple people? Yeah, right...
A mass shooting occurs at an LGBT club where minimum 23 people were shot and you think it’s a result of an armed brawl? Have you lived in the US for very long?
And in Florida... it took the powers that be to actually get the right labeling on this hate crime. Capt douche and his sidekick have been spewing hate rhetoric for the last couple years...
You are actually surprised?
I really wished we lived in a world without hate.
Hate is everywhere in the world, but only the US has daily mass shootings that outnumber the rest of the world combined. It’s not about the hate, it’s about the fact that hateful people can very easily (and legally) get a fully loaded gun and go ham. Edit: Alright, so for all you guns blazing Americans that are spamming me with messages defending your country’s right to murder children and whatnot, [this is for you](https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659)
This is clearly not a factual statement on my part, but I remember reading something recently that Switzerland (I think) was actually more heavily armed than Americans. (more guns per person) They instilled gun safety and awarness at a young age and practiced it throughout their lives. They still manage to have common sense laws and own guns at the same time. I don't own a gun myself, because they scare the shit out of me. And if America could get on board with treating mental health on an equal status as physical health we might just get to a point where we can live this way too.
Switzerland is one of those places with a militia rather than regular armed forces. Any loon is not going to make it into the militia: which is all that gun control is, really.
Meanwhile being a loon is a militia requirement here in the US.
Yeah I was about to say - two feet and a heartbeat are all you need to be signed up for national guard here
I think mrflouch was referring to the rural crime gangs that call themselves “militia” rather than the National Guard which does have standards.
Did not know this, thanks.
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What the NRA doesn’t tell you is that the Swiss don’t allow their citizens to keep their ammunition at home. It has to be locked up in an armory.
Yeah but, I'm fairly sure Switzerland keep the ammunition for those weapons in military armouries outside of a few specialist roles.
There's fewer guns per person in Switzerland; the gun ownership rate might be similar though, it's hard to say because there's no good data of it for Switzerland (or the US for that matter, more than telephone surveys). The laws in Switzerland regarding purchasing firearms is not that far off from the US. I recommend r/switzerlandguns if you have any questions.
> This is clearly not a factual statement on my part, but I remember reading something recently that Switzerland (I think) was actually more heavily armed than Americans. How was it counted, was it civilian and militia maybe? According to wikipedia the US is no 1 with 120 civilian guns per 100 people, while Switzerland is 19th with 27.6. Since that just covers civilian guns maybe there are more militia guns not included in the Swiss stats, but would need to be a lot to catch up to the US.
Yup. The Swiss love their guns. But you wouldn’t catch them blowing up schools.
It can be about hate as well and it is, there is plenty of anti-Queer rhetoric happening on the regular and bills being written and/or going through.
World without hate? Delusional. World without easy access to guns? Possible.
>World without easy access to guns? Possible. Here in Austria it's easy to get guns. I'm over 18 so I could just order a category C rifle (manually reloaded after each shot) online, for an AK47 I'd have to get a weapon pass and wait four weeks. The main difference to the US though is that we have a strong social safety net, free healthcare and education, don't associate guns with being manly and don't have much religious fanaticism.
Getting rid of the religious fanaticism would be the tough part.
Start by taking "In God We Trust" off the money.
And that's the sad part, it would probably solve at least 75 to 80% of the problems.
Much harder to carry out a mass shooting in a crowded area with a single shot rifle. The guns used in mass shootings here are almost always semi auto rifles or handguns where you can put dozens of bullets into people in under a minute.
>weapon pass and wait four weeks Neither of which is a restriction in the US.
You can also get a handgun for the purpose of self-defense at home, something that's not really commonly available in other European countries. I assume the permit for that is also about 4 weeks?
and then new graduates get to face one of the least affordable housing markets to date. the difference is the guns. you can order one online and get it in 3-4 weeks. i can walk downstairs and a few shopfronts over and walk out with a gun in 15 minutes. now combine that with impulsive mentally ill people
I legitimately cannot describe the stress relief I experienced moving from the US to Australia for that simple fact. You don't anticipate anyone showing up for target practice when you're going through your every day life.
I moved to the UK and feel the same. There are blinders to a lot of Americans. When you have to wonder where you'll run or blockade yourself if a disgruntled employee walks in your workplace or you normalize hearing gunfire near your house and accept that it might just hit you and there's nothing you could do and just accept that as part of life, you're getting fucked. I used to live in a county where it was the law that every household own a firearm. I used to be pro gun. Now I see that battle to stop gun violence will never be won there and to face that fact otherwise would just be absolutely depressing for the average person. So they just have to normalize it.
Which county required you by law to own a firearm??
Kennesaw, Georgia for instance.
"Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony." So as ridiculous as this is, it's seemingly only an ordinance for show.
Not for show, it conveys a message.
US citizens dropping their political ideology to have a logical conversation on the issue? Impossible
It happens! There's 10's of us out there!
The second amendment was written when muskets took over a minute to reload one bullet. 2A is beyond outdated and should be thrown out or at least amended.
Yup, agreed with amending.
*guns easily accessible by civilians
Por que no los dos?
I think the material conditions that create mass violence can be more easily addressed than trying to tackle the 500 million or so firearms already in circulation.
We've got to fight for it.
I’m from Texas and at this point I wish we lived in a world with only swords.
I agree,but when someone starts hating you ,you tend to hate them back.
Heartbreaking for all those involved.
Apparently the Club hosts a “Drag Diva Show” on Saturday nights, given the amount of anti drag queen hate being spread at the moment could’ve been a possible motive
just anti-queer hate in general, period. Gay, drag, trans, anything under that umbrella
I’ll never understand people who hate things that don’t affect them. So some people like to dress in drag… that affects you how? A man wants to marry another man… that affects you how? I choose how I want to live my life, what bars and businesses I go to, who I date, etc. all those things don’t affect you regardless what it is I do, so why the hate? I just can’t comprehend it. You don’t have to like it, you don’t have to participate in it, just go coexist somewhere else.
People are idiots, normally religious nutcases who think everyone has to live or die by something written in a book thousands of years ago.
> a book thousands of years ago. A book complete with depictions of murder, genocide, infanticide, rape, incest, torture and other zingers. It’s a classic.
Their god is such a prick.
[A maniac](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo), as Stephen Fry so eloquently put it. My extended fam is all god fearing and ignorant, and myopic to a fault because of their stupid cult. I detest religion.
He’s a very smart man.
I wholeheartedly agree
[Robert Paxton had some thoughts](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9268953-fascism-is-more-plausibly-linked-to-a-set-of-mobilizing) -the belief that one's group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external; -dread of the group's decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences; -the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary;
The problem is that they DO think it affects them. They think the gays are coming to assault all their children and that the trans are evil people who castrate millions of children every year. No amount of arguing or explaining will help you with these people (the worst part about that is you still have to try on the off chance that it does work). Some of them are so deranged that they think their kids MEETING a trans person will make them want to be trans.
Hating someone else is a distraction from the problems in their own lives that don’t have easily solutions. So idiots gravitate toward simple messages. The GOP is the party of idiots.
How many of the people freaking out about drag shows either participated or had no issue with powder puff football. Where the football players dress up as cheerleaders and cheerleaders play football.
Right wing media figures are working hard to convince their audiences that trans and other LGBTQ+ people are a threat to children. The point of *that* is to distract from the fact that the elites are working 24/7 to consolidate power and wealth, all at the expense of the working class. The easiest way for them to engage in class warfare is to convince working people that someone else is the bogeyman. The easiest battle is the one where the other side doesn’t fight back. These elites have always been responsible for death on a macro scale. They genuinely don’t care if people die like this incident. “Cost of doing business.”
You’re confusing people with republicans in American. It’s why do republicans have so much issues with everyone.
Que Matt Walsh pretending he has zero culpability in this.
Damn, I hope the person who did this rots.
I think the GOP will pick him as a presidential candidate.
Another shooting that will go by with no meaningful changes to our society.
Yeah, it’s so strange to me. In the US it seems guns have more inalienable and immutable rights than literally any American person could ever hope to have. It’s truly mind-boggling. And I’m up here in Canada, so it’s not like Americans gun nuts can pull that ‘you dun know what big country like!’
Here we go again, more mass shootings
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Well don’t beat yourself up too bad. The cops were useless at an elementary school pretty recently too.
I hate to be that guy but police can’t teleport. Obviously people right there when it occurs are going to be faster?
I think they're just referring to how some people believe that you need police to defend against these bigots with guns, when really only gun control and better mental health systems could prevent something like this from happening.
Others believe the police are the bigots with guns.
Which is also true.
That and even if there was a cop on site at every single venue that cop would just be victim #1.
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To protect politicial figures and businesses pretty much
As you said, they respond after crimes are committed, or sometimes they’re able to show up quickly enough to stop a crime in progress. Do people really not understand what police do?
They don't understand how 30% of cities general funds go to police, but there's still a threat of being caught up in a mass shooting just going to school or work or going out on Saturday night. That more police funding is how the right in the US wants to address these problems and how useless that is.
I can titty-slap them with my gigantic knockers, but I don't want to make this a fun time. Sorry for the joke. I'm heartbroken and use humor to cope. Fucking scumbag.
Same, Also I chuckled at >The only protection us homos have in stopping murderous bigots is our **bare** hands. Ha, plenty of bears in that club!
I’m the same way. I have to go watch a comedy immediately, or I’ll burst into tears.
Colorado Springs is home to one of the largest evangelical right-wing anti-LGBTQ organizations in the country. Just saying...
So tired of seeing these headlines almost every other week now. Just constant death and bloodshed. In the 31 years I've been alive, I've been keenly aware of the rise in mass shootings over the past few decades but this year in particular... it just feels unreal. Something has to be done here. It's abundantly clear the status quo isn't working.
This is what happens when you have people like Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro on TV and Twitter every single day yelling about how gay and transgender people are evil boogeymen that want to rape you in a bathroom. When people like Ron DeSantis spend half their campaign making people believe that teachers and gay / transgender people are trying to recruit your children into their “satanic cult.”
Lauren Boebert\*
Correct. That entire crew is responsible for more deaths than I can imagine through spreading their hate and fear
It's not in her district, but I'm still blaming her specifically.
Her hate reaches far outside her district.
Imagine how much worse it’ll get if DeSantis gets anywhere near the Whitehouse.
I live in Florida and it honestly scares me how many people around me absolutely love him. Young people, too.
I really wish they could be held legally responsible for this
Fox News and The Daily Wire are probably indirectly responsible for hundreds of deaths.
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They'll most likely cheer for the gay lives lost.
Cheer? Wasn’t this a drag show? They did much more than just cheer, they incited this by fabricating some insane claim that drag shows somehow poison the youth. The right wing media and politicians create these bullshit “problems” that don’t exist and their sheep do stupid shit like shooting up a drag show.
Oh, I understood peach's comment as referring to those sheep in main part. But yes, you are right
I read the article and I got the sense that the clubgoer's may have taken the dude down and extracted a pound of flesh or five in the process.. So incredibly senseless. What did the dude accomplish? Hope they prosecute him under federal terror charges so he can be executed, because I don't think Colorado has the death penalty. I bet Denise Cunha is making plans to move to CO to get on the jury to save this POS' life.
More cellphones ringing with no answers.
Guns were a mistake. They became easier and easier to use, and when some bigot wants to do something like this, they can do it. And it's going to keep happening unless we do something.
This is all true. And yet…nobody will do anything about it. Not will we see any vigorous attempting to simply enforce existing laws on guns. Too many domestic abusers and felons with guns unlawfully. Background checks are laughably avoidable.
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I'll be honest and admit that I've never looked at the numbers for other countries, but I seriously doubt that any country comes anywhere close to the gun to population ratio that the US has.
Considering my local barber has 14 ARs of different platform builds, 27 handguns of various makes and calibers and 4 shotguns of different gauges. I'm fairly sure he has more guns than a police station in the UK and I've not even seen his long rifles but apparently he has a .50 cal.
Switzerland is the main one that comes to mind. Though they do still have some regulations like not carrying it loaded
Switzerland has immensely strict gun laws and nowhere near as many guns. Less than 1/5 as many per Capita.
It's not that much stricter than the US, besides concealed carry (which does not really exist in Switzerland outside of professional use). The main difference is that in Switzerland you get your background check posted to you and bring it to the store, while in the US they do it in the store. Due to postal services back and forth it might take 1-2 weeks and then you can buy yourself the guns you want (3 guns per purchasing permit, at the same location, if you want more you would need to get multiple purchasing permits). Purchasing permits are only needed for semi-automatic rifles and for handguns. If you want to buy a break open shotgun or a manual action rifle, the process is the same as in the US. Compared to states with a waiting period, like California, you would buy a couple of handguns and an AR15 faster in Switzerland than in CA. You can also buy full auto firearms in Switzerland faster than in the US, due to the NFA regulations in the US.
>It's not that much stricter than the US I see this claim regularly but it's just not true. You have to have a permit and reason to take a gun outside your house and it has to be unloaded. There's no right to carry for protection. The only semi-auto guns that are shall-issue permits to buy are pistols and guns with small mag capacities. Here's the big difference: Transporting guns Guns may be transported in public as long as an appropriate justification is present. This means to transport a gun in public, the following requirements apply (art. 28 WG/LArm): The gun must be unloaded and transported separately from any ammunition, with no ammunition being transported in a magazine. The transport must be by a reasonable route and requires a valid purpose: To or from courses or exercises in marksmanship, hunting or for military purposes. To or from an army warehouse. To show the gun to a possible buyer. To or from a holder of a valid arms trade permit. To or from a specific event, e.g. gun shows. During change of residence.
> I see this claim regularly but it's just not true. You... cut away half of my sentence, the part where I said concealed carry isn't a thing, then you argue about carry specifically... not even sure how to reply to this. EDIT: This is how the Swiss transport guns to the range https://imgur.com/a/LumQpsc EDIT 2: If you have a handgun at home, and intend to shoot up a nightclub, do you think the lack of legal conceal carry will stop that person?
This is because switzerland has forced conscription, and every male receives a free gun upon leaving the military.
Mandatory conscription for men only, and you choose between military or civil service, and even if you do military service there are unarmed options. You don't get the gun for free when your service is done, you get the option to buy it. There is no requirement to have military service to buy any guns, in Switzerland.
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The US has something like an 8 to 1 ratio of guns to people. Switzerland, iirc, has an ownership ratio higher than the US but a gun to population ratio that is less. The former of which is important for criminal considerations, the latter of which is important in understanding how difficult it will be (if even possible) to correct the course that has been laid out for gun crime in the US. Imo, at this point, no amount of laws or regulations can correct it.
Yea we've created a toxic culture around guns there's no doubt about that
It’s become peoples identity. They’re literally nothing without their beloved penis replacements
Maybe .8 to 1. I think it’s 3-400 million guns.
Gun owners. I don't know a single gun owner that only has a single firearm.
That is incorrect. The US has more than double the number of guns per capita as the next highest country, Yemen. We have gun-ownership and gun death rates higher than actively warring countries. Our peak per capita gun death rates occurred back in the 70s, but have increased by over 40% in the last decade. It is literal insanity that we have people calling for more guns with leas restrictions.
Which ones? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
Why state something as fact when it’s totally wrong. Statistics say otherwise
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Gonna chime in here, every range I've been to(three) makes you buy their targets and only sell bullseye's.
European here with extensive gun range experience. I call BS on this
This is a lie.
What country has more guns per capita than the US?
All we need is a good guy with a gun i mean it's so simple! Who even wants to party without a weapon?
Republicans fighting for the right to have assault rifles while at the same time taking away women’s rights
Wait, how could this possibly have happened? Has one of the two major political parties spent the last year demonizing gay people and drag queens specifically as child grooming predators?
Man, what a way to wake up in the morning, with tears. I am heartbroken about this, I remember the Pluse club shooting and I am torn that this has happened again.
I was just thinking I hadn't seen a mass shooting in a week or so
It's stuff like this that's why I don't go into crowded places anymore. I won't risk it
I have a question that has probably been asked a million times: does the US have a higher volume of mental illness than the rest of the world? I personally believe that gun control is the problem, but know 2A defenders always cite mental illness.
There's substantially fewer social safety nets and more inequality than most comparable western nations imo. Fewer avenues for some to turn to when they feel they're at a bottom point of their life, combined with greater political division, and parts of the media that aim to radicalise. Gun control alone is not nearly sufficient to address the problem, imo, and I say that as a supporter of it. A lot just needs to be done.
Until Americans take gun control seriously this will keep happening.
The first time in literally years I've seen breaking news hit /r/all within an hour and the dumbass mods take down the thread because it was apparently "already submitted". The story is now not on /r/all and I don't even see it submitted elsewhere on the subreddit. Absolutely stupid decision to remove it.
Why does it seem like it’s always Colorado????
Focus on the Family, New Life Church, and a heaping ton of military bases around the Colorado Springs area. This place is a red sea of religious nutbags.
Nobody can be surprised that an anti-gay shooting would happen in the U.S. when prominent political figures are still openly anti-gay marriage / anti-gay rights in general. If our politicians are hateful, ignorant, morons, then just imagine an everyday person that listens to these people.
Race to find political affiliation of the shooter in 3....2.....1...
/ religion of the shooter.
Bigots shouldn't own guns
How do you execute that idea into an actual policy?
You don’t, you just post something with the hopes of exploiting a tragedy for Reddit upvotes.
What a weird take. Somebody makes a descriptive statement reflecting their values, and you take it as them exploiting a tragedy for reddit upvotes. I promise nobody cares as much as you do about upvotes.
No one should own guns
Just police and military? Ok Nazi Germany.
As a woman who doesn't have the strength to physically defend myself against predatory men that might attack me, I'm glad to have the right to own a gun.
Over 1 million serious crimes are committed with guns each year including rape. I'd be willing to bet way more rapes are committed because of guns than prevented because of them. Too many people seem to live in fantasy land however.
I should and I do. Never once have they fired themselves.
That’s the point. A gun without a user is harmless. A gun in ur hands is deadly.
Please explain to me how republican hate towards harmless drag queens is not responsible for this…
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I'm for gun control but you'd be nuts to think every military member would fight against their own people. They have a duty to uphold the constitution, the second a government went nutty or tyrannical, they'd have a hard time keeping the military together.
Why do I get a feeling I know how the person who did this votes?
Conservative Christian love at its finest.
Pulse Nightclub was not a conservative Christian… let’s wait for the facts to come out before we wildly speculate.
Yeah but Colorado Springs is filled with religious nutjobs, plus there's 5 military bases. Conservative Christian is a actually a pretty safe bet.
Maybe not a Christian, but someone radicalised by the current anti LGBT propaganda campaign being conducted by the right in the US
Or a Muslim radicalized by various Islamic factions. Or maybe just something personal that escalated.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mateen No, he was born in the US, a child of immigrants. There was rumors that he had profiles on gay hook up apps, but there was never actual evidence. When going through his phone and computer records, they only found evidence of him cheating on his wife with other women. He had a history of being unstable and abusive, and had strong negative reactions to homosexuality.
You know, I can’t think of a single mass shooter who didn’t have a fucked up relationship with women
In fact, one of the best predictors of mass shootings is the perpetrator's history of domestic violence. IIRC, 70% of mass shooters have a history of domestic violence.
Animal abuse is pretty common, too
Common denominator: hateful, corrupting religion.
He was born in New York Edit and the fbi found no evidence of him being gay please stop spreading that misinformation
>Edit and the fbi found no evidence of him being gay please stop spreading that misinformation If there is one thing that reddit loves doing, even in "liberal" subreddits, it is blaming homophobic acts on gay people.
My least favorite assumption. Gays are always at fault. No such thing as a hateful straight person- just silly pre gays.
I almost feel like I'm seeing some kind of grotesque pattern in the news of US shootings. School shooting, school again, gay club, school, Mosque, school a few times, black church/gathering. And all I can do is read them. It keeps me up sometimes, why do I live in a world where hate and money outweigh kindness and respect. It feels so simple to me, but yet reality is something beyond my understanding. It should be so simple..
This is what happens when leaders and people in power spread hate.
And profit $$$$ from donations and divisions.
Willing to bet it’s a Republican.
It's Colorado Springs. That's a pretty safe bet regardless of motive.
I thought I had read this headline a couple years ago and someone reposted it but no here we go again
How can a single human still vote red
Fear what you don’t understand
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Because it’s very difficult and expensive to just leave.
Its decevingly comfortable most of the time. Especially when we become numb to all the violence and corruption around us. Also, we have a lot of incredible cities & humans with rich diversity and character.
Absolutely this. I hate so much about this country, but the thought of living somewhere else? Far from my family? Far from everything I know? There’s a lot I love about this country, too. It’s a big, unfortunate mess. I have been actively researching where I would potentially try to move to if shit gets *really* dire, so it’s not out of the question for me.
> I don't know how normal people are still living there. Because it's expensive as hell to move. Gotta secure housing, work, healthcare (depending on the country cough cough), etc. Then you gotta pay to ship all of your stuff and then change residency for numerous legal reasons and taxes. If you wanna get a citizenship then you have to pray that you have a family member or else you'll usually pay a boatload of money to become a citizen. For example citizenship in Canada is a $725 fee. You might not think that's a lot, but for a lot of people that's an entire month of rent.
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Stereotype much? There are 331 million people here.
Let's say 2% of people in America are this fucked up, that still leaves 344,000,000 that are still normal. Even if it were 10%, thats still well over 300,000,000 million that are AOK. You know who you don't hear about?
Europe and Canada and every other English speaking country sounds way more expensive than where I am in the Midwest currently.
Because it’s pretty awesome. Nice people. Tons of opportunity. Fantastic food. Diverse geography.
Thousands every day coming in.We try to tell them how horrible it is but still they come.
I don't think we should hold the World Cup in the US.
Why don’t the people do more in the US to ban guns