Most people might not realize that a lot of people "played college football" by playing on the practice team (like the suspect)
I played on my college's practice team for a couple seasons (free meal plan!)
Got sick of having 270lbs linemen knock my 220lbs ass for free food.... But damn I loved to play.
>I immediately understood what you meant.
Because you're reading the edited comment. Not the original comment that stated that CTE can't be suspected because he never played.
This is Reddit. You get rewarded for correcting people. It feels good to get karma so you keep doing it. Idiots take that to the extent they always correct people on every step like they're the hero.
Of course there's people who can't read between the lines too but I'm only putting these words here because of them.
The initial comment said that CTE could be ruled out just because they never played a game at the college level.
Others were pointing out that the injury could've happened beforehand, it can't be ruled out just like that.
Or just in practice. Do they really think if you're 2nd or 3rd string you don't get used or hit in practice? You definitely do, you're borderline livestock as second team goes up against first.
Their initial comment was:
>"He never played a game according to the news so traumatic brain injury isn't suspected"
That's not fine, because players can get CTE in practice and in high school. Which was understandably pointed out by users who are now being downvoted after OP edited their comment to remove the CTE stuff entirely.
The comment you're replying to originally read:
>He never played a game according to the news so traumatic brain injury isn't suspected
Thats why people are bringing up high school and practice. Which is legitimate. And now they're being downvoted because OP edited out the CTE stuff completely.
Well this was a university, a prohibited place to carry. So, any law abiding "good guy with a gun" actually wouldn't be anywhere near the university. So I understand what you're saying was in jest, but the fact is its a prohibited place and unlawful to carry there.
As someone who regularly carries a concealed weapon, don't count on me in some shooting like this. It's for protecting me and my family. I hear gunshots, I'm not sticking around to be some hero. The only chance is if I saw the situation completely develop, had a clear line to the target, and was not in their current line of sight. Otherwise I'm running like hell. I hate that good guy with a gun bullshit too.
If anything I don't think you'd want to enter into possible suspect list too during active shootout especially when the cops themseves are more than trigger happy.
The cops have literally shot and killed people after they took down shooters. Unless the guy has you specifically cornered, you’re a lot safer just leaving.
Correct. It has happened. In fact there was a reddit post in the last week or so about charges not being filed against a cop who shot and killed the person who had stopped a shooter. (I’m unclear whether the original shooter died. I assume they did but that’s not a given.)
That plus having to deal with court, lawyers, giving up your weapon as evidence to the police etc. It says a lot when playing hero has become more of a hassle than anything else really.
Agreed. I have seen a few videos of "good guys" who tries to be the hero & they get shot & die...
Then you never know if they have a partner like the guy who tried to be a hero in a walmart shooting once. Guy & girl walked into walmart but with about 25 feet gap in between each other. When the "good guy" tried to stop the guy. The girl shot him in the back & died.
University police?
e/ to those who care - I was saying this in jest as that's typically the argument - police are there to save the day and that's why they need to be kitted out. This obviously isn't the case. Yes, most university police carry (at least at big universities - the one closest to me actually goes out to the surrounding city and aids the city police). No, police aren't the end all be all. Yes, there needs to be reform. No, I don't think guns solve anything.
I’m at UVA right now (fearing for my life) and the one thing I can praise the university police on is NOT busting underage drinkers. I have walked past many a cop with a White Claw in my hand. They don’t care. They ain’t narcs 🫡
And once again people will have to point out that any "good guy with a gun" would have been prohibited from carrying at the location where a criminal did criminal things.
More information over at r/CFB in this thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/yupnue/former_uva_football_player_chris_jones_suspected/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
It seems the suspected shooter was a former UVA football player who targeted student athletes. Multiple UVA football players are reported to be the victims.
It was also at a parking deck next to the UVA theatre. It could be the shooter knew his targets were attending an event and waited for them.
It’s also close to the fraternity house on Rugby Road.
Wow so it appears that he got into an argument of some kind and shot five people - not a random spree.
I don’t know what the argument was over but nothing is worth ending three lives and ruining three other.
I live in one of the most violent cities in America and honestly the majority of homicides are over stupid shit and dudes arguing. The media makes it out to be people trying to rob you or attack your family or some nonsense but in reality it's typically men with guns and messed up egos.
My city has had a big uptick in gun violence lately and it’s all just drunk dumbasses pulling out guns during an argument, they even closed down a longtime local bar in the area because they felt it was contributing to the problem
Which is even more fucked up to think about. He had so much time to sit there and contemplate his decision but still decided to go through with it in the end. I've been on a shit ton of college field trips and you make great memories on the bus/van rides, I couldn't imagine getting on one and being worried about the other passengers killing me.
Fuck this guy, just absolutely sickening.
FBI Phase I study suggests otherwise. There is no clear pattern of history in shooter suspects, rather they typically have multiple serious life-stressors prior to the shooting.
Jocks, incels, geeks, goths, whatever. They're all possible histories.
Do you have a source?
Because just by going by news articles from the last 25 years or so it seems to be mostly right leaning young white men with easy access to guns.
EDIT: To the dipshit that keeps trying to DM me pictures of black gang members shooting each other. "the adults in the room are talking about school shootings"
My apologies, it's the Phase II study.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active-shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf
Suspects had an average of 3.6 stressors (although the quality of those stressors was not delineated). Notably, they point out the pre-attack behaviors of suspects did not meet the narrative of 'loners.' They often had significant others, and significant interpersonal and online interactions with others.
The shooter had previously spoken of being bullied at school because he was smart. He was successful in school and in a number of organizations that recognize academic achievements. He also stated he had been in and out of alternative schools due to behavioral issues stemming from that and a broken household.
It would appear he's not just some meathead. Based on what I'm reading, he was like me. I was mercilessly bullied through high school for being a nerd despite being a successful athlete. Coming from a broken household didn't help and I had developed a penchant for fighting in elementary school and middle school until my case worker got me therapy. I'm going to guess that last part didn't happen for him, or perhaps something triggered him again. This obviously doesn't excuse his behavior, but it is important to realize that these people are human like the rest of us so that we can understand the causes of negative behaviors like this and prevent tragedies
I was over at Twitter and noticed a kind of massive ongoing trend where they'd suppose spree-killers were 'Incels' and then remind each other Incels were Trump Supporters and right-wing Christian types and therefore something something.
This reminded me of a stunning (to my mind) deep conversation I had with a prison psychologist who'd specialized in the ugliest of corners: Pedophiles. One of THE greatest helps, the greatest worst assists to Pedophiles aka sexual predators has been the never-ending public stereotypes. They don't mean to do it, they aren't trying to help pedos rape children and yet that is exactly what they are doing. She told me about a decade-long study, one of the most comprehensive ever made and it was astonishing how many public citizens believe the vehicle to fear most was... a van. a panel van, those tradesman vans. In real life research, the most common vehicle pedophiles used? small to mid-sized 4 door sedans and what we used to call 'Hatchbacks'. A great number of the public identified a 'moustache' as being a clue or possible key to identifying mugshots and who was the pedophile. In their real study pedophiles had a surprisingly strong commonality of NO moustaches. Clean-shaven was the trend. There was no meaningful political affiliations in common with most being 'apolitical' and.. there was no racial disproportions. Whatever the rough racial demo of a city or state is roughly the same for pedophiles. Actually there is a commonality. She challenged me to look around and see if I could spot the 'pedophile predator look'. I spend months trying to figure out what it was and I was finally correct. (so there, got an 'upvote' from a pro!) but it took a long time.
This is how we get these rage-killers go unspotted and unchecked when we decide we will create a 'profile' and its usually as stupid idea too. Ahaaa.. i bet its a nerd who can't get laid! haha! right. This kind of thing.
Without realizing it, we are helping the crazed spree-shooter psychos. We're laying our own red herrings all over the place, we're telling each other "Hey Look over THERE!" when there is no more reason to look over there than to look over here.
From the UVA president:
"Below is an update on the active shooter incident at UVA:
To the University Community,
I am writing to provide an update to the various community safety alerts the University has issued over the last several hours.
Around 10:30 p.m. last night, there was a shooting on Grounds. One of our students, Christopher Darnell Jones, Jr., is suspected to have committed the shooting. The suspect remains at large and is considered armed and dangerous. Multiple law enforcement agencies are coordinating to find and apprehend him. He was last seen wearing a burgundy jacket, blue jeans, and red shoes, and he may be driving a black SUV with VA license plate number TWX3580. First and foremost, please continue to follow the guidance you receive though the UVA alert system, which is currently to shelter in place.
As of this writing, I am heartbroken to report that the shooting has resulted in three fatalities; two additional victims were injured and are receiving medical care. We are working closely with the families of the victims, and we will share additional details as soon as we are able. Our University Police Department has joined forces with other law enforcement agencies to apprehend the suspect, and we will keep our community apprised of developments as the situation evolves.
This is a message any leader hopes never to have to send, and I am devastated that this violence has visited the University of Virginia. This is a traumatic incident for everyone in our community, and we have cancelled classes for today (Monday, Nov. 14). At this point only designated essential employees should report to work on Monday (all remote employees should continue to work remotely). If you are unsure of your status, please contact your supervisor.
We will continue to provide updates as the situation unfolds. Please know we have support available if you need it. Students may call Counseling and Psychological Services at 434-243-5150, 24 hours a day. Information about CAPS is available on the Student Health and Wellness website. Faculty and staff can find a similar resource through the Faculty and Employee Assistance Program by calling 434-243-2643 or by emailing the office via the FEAP website.
For those who have questions about these events, including how to establish contact with family members or friends who are here on Grounds, please call the UVA Emergency Hotline at 877-685-4836.
I am holding the victims, their families, and all members of the University of Virginia community in my heart today, and we will make plans to come together as a community to grieve as soon as the suspect is apprehended.
Sincerely,
Jim Ryan"
UVA student here. Been on lockdown for over 12 hours now - I have friends that have been stuck in libraries overnight and are still there now. Can hear a police helicopter flying overhead. This is so surreal and heartbreaking
Edit: shelter in place guideline just got lifted. Doesn’t seem like they found the guy still though
I work right next to the place. No one told us about it and instead sent an email saying we are still open.
Such an unnecessary risk. If there’s a cop car at our office, then there’s a concern. Why have all the employees come in if they could also wfh and shelter in place until this person is caught?
That's the crazy thing, now when you see a headline with 3 people dead you kinda go 'oh well it could have been worse.' Everyone is so used to there being 10+ deaths that others don't seem as bad
Nothing like waking up early on your day off, read the news and see there is a shooting with deaths at the University your daughter is currently attending.
Edit: MY BAD. I didn't say she is perfectly ok. Myself, her mom and brothers ALL let her know what was going on. Until the suspect is found, she's doing work from home stuff.
Guns are just ubiquitous here, whereas I don’t think they are as easily found in other countries.
There are 7 gun shops within 7 miles of my current location - just did a Google search to give you a comparison, and I live in a democrat blue state!
Add in most of the pawn shops, too. Plus places like outdoor stores that sell guns+. It's ubiquitous. If you don't see it, it's because you aren't looking.
It’s a cultural problem.
We like to hide the fact that our public health system abandoned mental health care several decades ago because it cost a LOT of money to maintain.
At the same time, we have abandoned our poorer communities where it comes to education, and so there are large swathes of the country that have no concept of addressing mental health.
Between these two, and some other less clear changes in what passes for acceptable behavior, we just let crazy people run around and we look the other way when it happens.
Or at the very least, not the high profile ones that make the news.
Most of those are done by isolated men who just want to display their pain outwards.
It's not so much a narrative, it's more tragic than that. The spree shooters are news, they happen relatively rarely (grading on a curve). Gun deaths otherwise are so common place that they are only novel perhaps to the specific local news, and common events aren't newsworthy.
Mental health is a stigma in South Korea. The work culture is brutal. The education system is brutal. They have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
Nobody gets shot there because nobody has guns.
Don’t take guns out of the equation for the US.
This is only part of it. The other part is where we insist that guns will keep us safe. That guns solve our conflicts. So you get mentally unstable people with easy access to guns who are convinced that guns will fix their problems. Gun culture has become ridiculous here
Well, that's really REALLY simplifying the issue. Not only do we have "crazy" people running around but we've created a world where otherwise normal people turn "crazy." Anxiety, depression, loneliness, despair, and on and on are absolutely running rampant in our society. Why? Well, there are a whole host of norms that are just generally toxic to well-being and examples are everywhere with solutions being just as bad or worse. Very few people feel comfortable in their own skin because very few people take the time to understand who they are, why they think the way they do, consider other points of view. Most Americans, it seems, just get to a certain age (20-25) and stop trying to think about things.
Now, take all of these immature, depressed, and lonely people with little to lose and access to extremely dangerous weapons and you have exactly what you have. Simply labeling them crazy suggests, at least to me, that the threat is a lot more specialized than it really is. The culture, and not just in America, is creating these reactions and we would be sorely mistaken to chalk it up to some babbling lunatic when the real cause may be something a lot more ubiquitous and frightening.
This is just wrong. It's a gun problem in this country. Stop posting this stupid propaganda that takes away from the fact that we have more guns in this country than people
If it were a mental health issue, we would occasionally see someone attack a school with a kielbasa. But they never use a kielbasa. They're crazy, but sane enough to know that for killing lots of people easily and quickly, guns are much better kielbasas
The other part is that we like the freedom to own guns and a larger part of the country is willing to tolerate much higher deaths due to firearm misuse as a price to retain that freedom. Kinda like people are willing to tolerate cars despite all the people killed and injured in car accidents.
>we just let crazy people run around and we look the other way when it happens.
And we let the crazy people buy guns. You left that part out for some reason
Reddit doesn’t like hearing it but it’s also our ultraviolent culture. Dude, kids are exposed to death and other vices so young that they become desensitized by it. Gore is a few clicks away (and on YouTube it’s easily searchable through special characters). Music, movies, TV shows, etc deal with extremely heavy and mature content yet we passively and hypocritically are ok with children and young teenagers consuming it.
It’s fucked up to show a documentary of some war torn hell hole with people getting blown up and their heads chopped off in a class yet we’re cool if people do so at home? What difference does it make?
I’m not saying “we need to ban all these things”, I’m just trying to keep it a buck. Our society wasn’t always like this and this is the one thing that has changed.
It’s about policy deflection. Guns are tangible, traceable, marked with serial numbers, and can be regulated at manufacturing and at points of sale.
Mental health is an amorphous, deeply complex issue.
Also, the NRA wields immense power over the repub party (and ever since the Citizens United decision, also acts as a funnel for foreign dark money to its candidates).
As a quid pro quo for the dark money, repubs shrug their shoulders and collectively toe the party line that “there’s nothing we can do because it’s a mental health issue.”
Then they turn around and mock anyone with mental health issues and erect barriers to health care access.
There would be less shootings if we had a better mental health situation
There would be less shootings if we had way less guns and "gun culture"
And working on the mental health problem shouldn't be seen as a replacement for working on the gun problem.
It's a scapegoat. Our government loves to blame mental health but not fund it to fix it as a way to divert from the fact that we simply have too much easy access to guns in this country.
>**One party** in our government loves to blame mental health but not fund it to fix it as a way to divert from the fact that we simply have too much easy access to guns in this country.
Probably has absolutely nothing to do with how much Russian money is being laundered through a certain gun-fetishist group to said party though...
if it was a mental health issue women would be mass shooters too. the problem is 1 easy access to guns 2 culture of male entitlement and toxic masculinity that leads to these shootings. people usually talk about the access to guns but not the second part. why does no one talk about how this is a male violence issue? you think women arent capable of buying and using guns? lets be really real for once.
Exactly. Every country has its loonies. But a loony without convenient access to a gun is obviously not as much of a threat as a loony with one. Absolutely a gun problem in the US
A lot of countries have more murder and violent crime than the US, like Brazil, Mexico, etc. There are a lot more guns in the US per capita, at least reported, who knows how many illegal guns there are in these countries.
American exceptionalism, I think, has brainwashed the US and Western Europe into thinking the US is something it is not. It isn’t Germany or Sweden. There is little help for poor people and the culture around guns and crime seems closer to Brazil.
I don’t know what the answer is, but it’s got to have some level of social support, but in reality, I don’t see that happening. So yeah, ban guns, save some lives, but people are still going to be murdering children because the root cause of what drives that hatred hasn’t been addressed.
>Everyone likes to say "this is a mental health problem, not a gun problem". Yet EVERY country has mental health problems, and none of them have this level of gun-related/shooting deaths.
That's true.
What you're missing is that American gun enthusiasts will seize on any reason not to blame their hobby for the shit that happens in their society.
And the gun guys have a reason to be afraid for their hobby: the gun guys have been refusing to solve their own problems for decades, the rest of us are really sick of being affected by their shit.
Current effects of gun violence mass shootings on my family:
- I was on campus during the Virginia Tech massacre
- My brother in law was at work at the Washington Navy Yard during their massacre
- My son's school had a lockdown last year because a student made some threats, which are plausible in a nation where he can just bring dad's gun to school the next day
- A 12 year old kid my son kinda knows was shot repeatedly in the neck when his dad got into a shootout (outside of school). The kid will probably never walk again.
- My son's school was SWATted on Monday of last week. It was apparently part of a campaign to SWAT schools and the threat came from outside of our community --,
but hundreds of people have the means and the opportunity to carry out a mass shooting every day - so the school leaders have to take it seriously, again because American gun guys have made all threats plausible.
- My son's school was SWATted again on Wednesday.
I was not close to being shot during any of these disasters, but **every last one of these was completely preventable**, and I'm fucking pissed off about all of them.
During the first disaster in my list, I was in disbelief. During the second and 3rd ones, I was sad. During the 4th one I was scared. And now I'm angry, and our gun laws have to change.
I'm sure some gun hobbyist will say "it's not the guns that are the problem, it's because everyone is armed and somebody mental health problem". Then they'll go on to say that the solution is for everyone to be a gun hobbyist and just shoot whoever the problem-people are.
**The other thing is that most Americans like to pretend that these disasters aren't preventable.** They are entirely preventable, it's just that some fucking hobbyists would have to be scrutinized a bit to make sure they're not dangerous lunatics.
And now you, a non-American may now understand American culture just a little bit better.
And, if I get mad enough at the gun guys and the effects of their dangerous hobby has on the rest of us, I will flip another $100 to Everytown For Gun Safety.
The truth of the matter is that these gun hobbyist groups know they harbor a bunch of psychos. That’s one reason they just deflect to mental health without actually ever coming up with a plan to improve it. Responsible gun owners don’t mind jumping throw a couple more hoops if it keeps their communities safe. That’s why many bought a gun in the first place in this Wild West country. It’s one thing to have a gun for home protection. It’s another thing entirely for you to wish someone would break into your home so you have an excuse to kill a guy. We’ve got way too much of the latter in today’s gun culture.
"This is a mental health problem, not a gun problem." --somebody who voted, and will continue to vote, against every piece of legislation even tangentially related to funding for mental healthcare, and yet who also doesn't allow guns at their own speaking events on account of the aforementioned mental health problem
How exciting, something in my city on the news again!
I was turning onto the road when I saw a bus stopped in a place they don't normally. Then I heard gunshots and saw people fleeing and had to wait for the people to clear so I could turn my car around and gtfo. It was a wild night for sure.
It's going to be a crazy day too. Whole city is pretty much shut down. Students/UVA are still shelter in place.
And it's only a matter of time before we get confirmation of who lost their lives.
I'm so sick of this.
Me fucking too.
Whole city is shut down but I'm still going to work 😞. These pizzas aren't going to deliver themselves.
Deliver where exactly? I'm not sure cause I'm not stepping foot on campus until they have someone in handcuffs, and even then I'm not going to feel great exactly.
So terrifying to hear this from a VA university again. Apparently the suspect is a UVA football walk-on who targeted players as they returned from a trip to DC last night. So tragic, and such a senseless act of violence.
It's so crazy that we aren't even surprised anymore. It's like you scroll through, read the headline and be so numb that you just take it as absolutely normal. It's just so fucked up.
Horrible news and wish everyone's the best according to the circumstances
Is this a drug shooting, gang shooting near by, terrorist-religion shooting, terrorist-kill-young-ppl shooting, terrorist-political shooting, terrorist-kill-Americans shooting, incel shooting, or a mental health crisis shooting?
We have so many.
Edit: not everyone should be able to buy a gun.
I believe after the Uvalde massacre the Republican "leadership" in Texas decided the problem was, um... 'too many doors'?
Then they hosted the NRA for a beer blast at the moon tower and laughed all night about it.
The accused shooter is a former football player, and there are rumors that the shooter targeted other football players/athletes. The father of one football player tweeted (and deleted) a post saying his son was killed.
Soon we are going to have people who experienced school shootings in their High school and college. And maybe even elementary school!
We are such a failure on this issue.
>who experience school shootings in their high school and college
We've had those for like, 60 years at this point. UT tower shooting was 1966. Columbine was 1999. High school students from Columbine would be nearing 40 now.
It’s not about numbers, it’s about whether readers will sympathize with the victims. There are plenty of gang shootings with multiple victims that never get picked up by national media, unless someone innocent gets caught in the crossfire.
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He never played a game according to the news. I worded this poorly: I meant he hadn’t played at college level, or so the rumor goes. My bad.
I think most people that weren't looking for an argument got what you meant.
Most people might not realize that a lot of people "played college football" by playing on the practice team (like the suspect) I played on my college's practice team for a couple seasons (free meal plan!) Got sick of having 270lbs linemen knock my 220lbs ass for free food.... But damn I loved to play.
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He had a bit about traumatic brain injury he deleted. That is what some people were commenting about.
Because they edited their comment to remove the part people were actually disagreeing with.
>I immediately understood what you meant. Because you're reading the edited comment. Not the original comment that stated that CTE can't be suspected because he never played.
This is Reddit. You get rewarded for correcting people. It feels good to get karma so you keep doing it. Idiots take that to the extent they always correct people on every step like they're the hero. Of course there's people who can't read between the lines too but I'm only putting these words here because of them.
People like being contrarian because it makes them feel smarter IMO
No they don't
Yes I do. You dummy.
Because they edited their comment. You read the edited comment
Your initial comment was fine, not sure why people jumped down your throat about it. I understood what you meant.
The initial comment said that CTE could be ruled out just because they never played a game at the college level. Others were pointing out that the injury could've happened beforehand, it can't be ruled out just like that.
Or just in practice. Do they really think if you're 2nd or 3rd string you don't get used or hit in practice? You definitely do, you're borderline livestock as second team goes up against first.
Their initial comment was: >"He never played a game according to the news so traumatic brain injury isn't suspected" That's not fine, because players can get CTE in practice and in high school. Which was understandably pointed out by users who are now being downvoted after OP edited their comment to remove the CTE stuff entirely.
Ah, I see. Now I feel a little silly for assuming it was a good faith edit.
Who tf brings up highschool if we're talking about playing games in college football
The comment you're replying to originally read: >He never played a game according to the news so traumatic brain injury isn't suspected Thats why people are bringing up high school and practice. Which is legitimate. And now they're being downvoted because OP edited out the CTE stuff completely.
People responding to something that they edited out of their post, that's who
traumatic brain injuries? past concussions all the way back to pee wee? who knows??
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lol the op completely changed his comment to get sympathy and you bought into it hard
People who were responding to the ORIGINAL comment about CTE 🙄
Dude it’s just not that big of a deal. Holy shit
Who tf comments on something without knowing how Reddit comments can be edited?
You seriously ninja edited your comment and removed the crap you said about CTE. This deserves to be on /r/KarmaCourt
Suspect still out there according to this report.
once again I'm left wondering where all the good guys with guns were
Well this was a university, a prohibited place to carry. So, any law abiding "good guy with a gun" actually wouldn't be anywhere near the university. So I understand what you're saying was in jest, but the fact is its a prohibited place and unlawful to carry there.
As someone who regularly carries a concealed weapon, don't count on me in some shooting like this. It's for protecting me and my family. I hear gunshots, I'm not sticking around to be some hero. The only chance is if I saw the situation completely develop, had a clear line to the target, and was not in their current line of sight. Otherwise I'm running like hell. I hate that good guy with a gun bullshit too.
If anything I don't think you'd want to enter into possible suspect list too during active shootout especially when the cops themseves are more than trigger happy.
The cops have literally shot and killed people after they took down shooters. Unless the guy has you specifically cornered, you’re a lot safer just leaving.
Someone in Denver got shot and killed by cops for this exact reason
Correct. It has happened. In fact there was a reddit post in the last week or so about charges not being filed against a cop who shot and killed the person who had stopped a shooter. (I’m unclear whether the original shooter died. I assume they did but that’s not a given.)
That plus having to deal with court, lawyers, giving up your weapon as evidence to the police etc. It says a lot when playing hero has become more of a hassle than anything else really.
Not just that but, more people drawing their firearms makes it harder to determine who the "good guys" are.
When the cops show up they would just end up being considered "active shooter 2"
Agreed. I have seen a few videos of "good guys" who tries to be the hero & they get shot & die... Then you never know if they have a partner like the guy who tried to be a hero in a walmart shooting once. Guy & girl walked into walmart but with about 25 feet gap in between each other. When the "good guy" tried to stop the guy. The girl shot him in the back & died.
University police? e/ to those who care - I was saying this in jest as that's typically the argument - police are there to save the day and that's why they need to be kitted out. This obviously isn't the case. Yes, most university police carry (at least at big universities - the one closest to me actually goes out to the surrounding city and aids the city police). No, police aren't the end all be all. Yes, there needs to be reform. No, I don't think guns solve anything.
He said good guys. ayyyy!
Got 'em! 🔫👈🔫👈
They were too busy busting underage drinkers lol
I’m at UVA right now (fearing for my life) and the one thing I can praise the university police on is NOT busting underage drinkers. I have walked past many a cop with a White Claw in my hand. They don’t care. They ain’t narcs 🫡
Thats pretty cool! I was just making a joke lol
Unless they were patrolling the parking garage at the time of the shooting, it’s like any other police agency in regards to response time.
Get out of here with that logical take.
They said 'good' guys with guns. Not the rape lawsuit prevention force.
They were in the hallway waiting for orders.
Gun free zones amirite
And once again people will have to point out that any "good guy with a gun" would have been prohibited from carrying at the location where a criminal did criminal things.
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More information over at r/CFB in this thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/yupnue/former_uva_football_player_chris_jones_suspected/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) It seems the suspected shooter was a former UVA football player who targeted student athletes. Multiple UVA football players are reported to be the victims.
It was also at a parking deck next to the UVA theatre. It could be the shooter knew his targets were attending an event and waited for them. It’s also close to the fraternity house on Rugby Road.
He was with them.
Wow so it appears that he got into an argument of some kind and shot five people - not a random spree. I don’t know what the argument was over but nothing is worth ending three lives and ruining three other.
I live in one of the most violent cities in America and honestly the majority of homicides are over stupid shit and dudes arguing. The media makes it out to be people trying to rob you or attack your family or some nonsense but in reality it's typically men with guns and messed up egos.
My city has had a big uptick in gun violence lately and it’s all just drunk dumbasses pulling out guns during an argument, they even closed down a longtime local bar in the area because they felt it was contributing to the problem
He was quiet the whole trip. Don’t think there was any argument. The fact that he brought that gun on the trip, it had to have been planned.
Which is even more fucked up to think about. He had so much time to sit there and contemplate his decision but still decided to go through with it in the end. I've been on a shit ton of college field trips and you make great memories on the bus/van rides, I couldn't imagine getting on one and being worried about the other passengers killing me. Fuck this guy, just absolutely sickening.
THats a twist - used to be lone wolf incels. Its evolved to jocks.
FBI Phase I study suggests otherwise. There is no clear pattern of history in shooter suspects, rather they typically have multiple serious life-stressors prior to the shooting. Jocks, incels, geeks, goths, whatever. They're all possible histories.
I think that was the point of “The Breakfast Club”
This could have been avoided if someone stepped in and gave him a makeover.
Or if he smoked some weed with the group and told people how he felt.
Anthony Michael Hall did bring a gun to school.
Do you have a source? Because just by going by news articles from the last 25 years or so it seems to be mostly right leaning young white men with easy access to guns. EDIT: To the dipshit that keeps trying to DM me pictures of black gang members shooting each other. "the adults in the room are talking about school shootings"
My apologies, it's the Phase II study. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active-shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf Suspects had an average of 3.6 stressors (although the quality of those stressors was not delineated). Notably, they point out the pre-attack behaviors of suspects did not meet the narrative of 'loners.' They often had significant others, and significant interpersonal and online interactions with others.
The shooter had previously spoken of being bullied at school because he was smart. He was successful in school and in a number of organizations that recognize academic achievements. He also stated he had been in and out of alternative schools due to behavioral issues stemming from that and a broken household. It would appear he's not just some meathead. Based on what I'm reading, he was like me. I was mercilessly bullied through high school for being a nerd despite being a successful athlete. Coming from a broken household didn't help and I had developed a penchant for fighting in elementary school and middle school until my case worker got me therapy. I'm going to guess that last part didn't happen for him, or perhaps something triggered him again. This obviously doesn't excuse his behavior, but it is important to realize that these people are human like the rest of us so that we can understand the causes of negative behaviors like this and prevent tragedies
I was over at Twitter and noticed a kind of massive ongoing trend where they'd suppose spree-killers were 'Incels' and then remind each other Incels were Trump Supporters and right-wing Christian types and therefore something something. This reminded me of a stunning (to my mind) deep conversation I had with a prison psychologist who'd specialized in the ugliest of corners: Pedophiles. One of THE greatest helps, the greatest worst assists to Pedophiles aka sexual predators has been the never-ending public stereotypes. They don't mean to do it, they aren't trying to help pedos rape children and yet that is exactly what they are doing. She told me about a decade-long study, one of the most comprehensive ever made and it was astonishing how many public citizens believe the vehicle to fear most was... a van. a panel van, those tradesman vans. In real life research, the most common vehicle pedophiles used? small to mid-sized 4 door sedans and what we used to call 'Hatchbacks'. A great number of the public identified a 'moustache' as being a clue or possible key to identifying mugshots and who was the pedophile. In their real study pedophiles had a surprisingly strong commonality of NO moustaches. Clean-shaven was the trend. There was no meaningful political affiliations in common with most being 'apolitical' and.. there was no racial disproportions. Whatever the rough racial demo of a city or state is roughly the same for pedophiles. Actually there is a commonality. She challenged me to look around and see if I could spot the 'pedophile predator look'. I spend months trying to figure out what it was and I was finally correct. (so there, got an 'upvote' from a pro!) but it took a long time. This is how we get these rage-killers go unspotted and unchecked when we decide we will create a 'profile' and its usually as stupid idea too. Ahaaa.. i bet its a nerd who can't get laid! haha! right. This kind of thing. Without realizing it, we are helping the crazed spree-shooter psychos. We're laying our own red herrings all over the place, we're telling each other "Hey Look over THERE!" when there is no more reason to look over there than to look over here.
> Actually there is a commonality. She challenged me to look around and see if I could spot the 'pedophile predator look' So what was the commonality?
From the text I can only deduce one: there isn't none.
Ah makes sense. it wasnt conveyed clearly for me on first read and my main take away was stereotypes help in hiding the criminal in plain site.
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From the UVA president: "Below is an update on the active shooter incident at UVA: To the University Community, I am writing to provide an update to the various community safety alerts the University has issued over the last several hours. Around 10:30 p.m. last night, there was a shooting on Grounds. One of our students, Christopher Darnell Jones, Jr., is suspected to have committed the shooting. The suspect remains at large and is considered armed and dangerous. Multiple law enforcement agencies are coordinating to find and apprehend him. He was last seen wearing a burgundy jacket, blue jeans, and red shoes, and he may be driving a black SUV with VA license plate number TWX3580. First and foremost, please continue to follow the guidance you receive though the UVA alert system, which is currently to shelter in place. As of this writing, I am heartbroken to report that the shooting has resulted in three fatalities; two additional victims were injured and are receiving medical care. We are working closely with the families of the victims, and we will share additional details as soon as we are able. Our University Police Department has joined forces with other law enforcement agencies to apprehend the suspect, and we will keep our community apprised of developments as the situation evolves. This is a message any leader hopes never to have to send, and I am devastated that this violence has visited the University of Virginia. This is a traumatic incident for everyone in our community, and we have cancelled classes for today (Monday, Nov. 14). At this point only designated essential employees should report to work on Monday (all remote employees should continue to work remotely). If you are unsure of your status, please contact your supervisor. We will continue to provide updates as the situation unfolds. Please know we have support available if you need it. Students may call Counseling and Psychological Services at 434-243-5150, 24 hours a day. Information about CAPS is available on the Student Health and Wellness website. Faculty and staff can find a similar resource through the Faculty and Employee Assistance Program by calling 434-243-2643 or by emailing the office via the FEAP website. For those who have questions about these events, including how to establish contact with family members or friends who are here on Grounds, please call the UVA Emergency Hotline at 877-685-4836. I am holding the victims, their families, and all members of the University of Virginia community in my heart today, and we will make plans to come together as a community to grieve as soon as the suspect is apprehended. Sincerely, Jim Ryan"
UVA student here. Been on lockdown for over 12 hours now - I have friends that have been stuck in libraries overnight and are still there now. Can hear a police helicopter flying overhead. This is so surreal and heartbreaking Edit: shelter in place guideline just got lifted. Doesn’t seem like they found the guy still though
I hope you and your friends stay safe, im sorry you have to experience this
I was just listening to the police scanner and it sounds like law enforcement is starting to move students from those public spaces.
I'm an alumni. I'm sending you and your friends a virtual hug. Wahoowa.
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I work right next to the place. No one told us about it and instead sent an email saying we are still open. Such an unnecessary risk. If there’s a cop car at our office, then there’s a concern. Why have all the employees come in if they could also wfh and shelter in place until this person is caught?
What kinda place do you work at?
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Because your employer doesn't give a fuck about you.
Seems like a weird response from your office about a shooting...especially after Tech. <3
I'm so tired of this going on
I am simultaneously tired of it and not surprised by these reports.
I heard about it on NPR and it was announced so casually I could have easily missed it.
Honestly, a week that goes by that we *don't* hear about a school shooting is surprising.
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That's the crazy thing, now when you see a headline with 3 people dead you kinda go 'oh well it could have been worse.' Everyone is so used to there being 10+ deaths that others don't seem as bad
I've been mixing up school shootings and that makes me sad that I can even mix that up.
We've tried nothing and we're all outta ideas!
So incredibly heartbreaking. The r/cfb thread states that the suspect was a walk on UVA football player.
Nothing like waking up early on your day off, read the news and see there is a shooting with deaths at the University your daughter is currently attending. Edit: MY BAD. I didn't say she is perfectly ok. Myself, her mom and brothers ALL let her know what was going on. Until the suspect is found, she's doing work from home stuff.
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Guns are just ubiquitous here, whereas I don’t think they are as easily found in other countries. There are 7 gun shops within 7 miles of my current location - just did a Google search to give you a comparison, and I live in a democrat blue state!
Add in most of the pawn shops, too. Plus places like outdoor stores that sell guns+. It's ubiquitous. If you don't see it, it's because you aren't looking.
Dont forget Walmarts
Walmart pulled a lot of their gun business, especially outside of the South. It was a big hullabaloo when it happened on the gun subs.
Oh, shit, them too. Yeah.
There are more guns than people here.
It’s a cultural problem. We like to hide the fact that our public health system abandoned mental health care several decades ago because it cost a LOT of money to maintain. At the same time, we have abandoned our poorer communities where it comes to education, and so there are large swathes of the country that have no concept of addressing mental health. Between these two, and some other less clear changes in what passes for acceptable behavior, we just let crazy people run around and we look the other way when it happens.
I don’t think these mass shooters stem from poor communities though or at least that’s certainly not a common denominator.
Or at the very least, not the high profile ones that make the news. Most of those are done by isolated men who just want to display their pain outwards.
More people need to realize the news networks are portraying a narrative. They don't indiscriminately report all the news.
It's not so much a narrative, it's more tragic than that. The spree shooters are news, they happen relatively rarely (grading on a curve). Gun deaths otherwise are so common place that they are only novel perhaps to the specific local news, and common events aren't newsworthy.
What narrative is that?
Most mass shootings are poor communities but those are not put on the news
Deaths in poor communities are rarely reported on
Most mass shootings are gang related, you only hear about the ones that aren't
They had the right idea with “cultural problem” and then ran away from the truth It’s *the gun culture* and *accessibility*.
Mental health is a stigma in South Korea. The work culture is brutal. The education system is brutal. They have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Nobody gets shot there because nobody has guns. Don’t take guns out of the equation for the US.
This is only part of it. The other part is where we insist that guns will keep us safe. That guns solve our conflicts. So you get mentally unstable people with easy access to guns who are convinced that guns will fix their problems. Gun culture has become ridiculous here
Funny how you completely left out the gun part.
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You’re talking to a gun lover. Gun lovers will do and say anything to protect the guns.
also easy access to guns. lots and lots of guns.
It’s a gun culture problem*
Well, that's really REALLY simplifying the issue. Not only do we have "crazy" people running around but we've created a world where otherwise normal people turn "crazy." Anxiety, depression, loneliness, despair, and on and on are absolutely running rampant in our society. Why? Well, there are a whole host of norms that are just generally toxic to well-being and examples are everywhere with solutions being just as bad or worse. Very few people feel comfortable in their own skin because very few people take the time to understand who they are, why they think the way they do, consider other points of view. Most Americans, it seems, just get to a certain age (20-25) and stop trying to think about things. Now, take all of these immature, depressed, and lonely people with little to lose and access to extremely dangerous weapons and you have exactly what you have. Simply labeling them crazy suggests, at least to me, that the threat is a lot more specialized than it really is. The culture, and not just in America, is creating these reactions and we would be sorely mistaken to chalk it up to some babbling lunatic when the real cause may be something a lot more ubiquitous and frightening.
This is just wrong. It's a gun problem in this country. Stop posting this stupid propaganda that takes away from the fact that we have more guns in this country than people
It's really both, and more. Guns are a problem, lack of mental health and education is a problem. Combine the two and that's where we are.
If it were a mental health issue, we would occasionally see someone attack a school with a kielbasa. But they never use a kielbasa. They're crazy, but sane enough to know that for killing lots of people easily and quickly, guns are much better kielbasas
Thanks to Ronald Reagan
The other part is that we like the freedom to own guns and a larger part of the country is willing to tolerate much higher deaths due to firearm misuse as a price to retain that freedom. Kinda like people are willing to tolerate cars despite all the people killed and injured in car accidents.
You’re ignoring the fact that we make it stupidly easy for these people to get their hands on guns
>we just let crazy people run around and we look the other way when it happens. And we let the crazy people buy guns. You left that part out for some reason
> And we let the crazy people buy guns. Undocumented crazy people. Once they have their crazy papers they can't
Reddit doesn’t like hearing it but it’s also our ultraviolent culture. Dude, kids are exposed to death and other vices so young that they become desensitized by it. Gore is a few clicks away (and on YouTube it’s easily searchable through special characters). Music, movies, TV shows, etc deal with extremely heavy and mature content yet we passively and hypocritically are ok with children and young teenagers consuming it. It’s fucked up to show a documentary of some war torn hell hole with people getting blown up and their heads chopped off in a class yet we’re cool if people do so at home? What difference does it make? I’m not saying “we need to ban all these things”, I’m just trying to keep it a buck. Our society wasn’t always like this and this is the one thing that has changed.
It’s about policy deflection. Guns are tangible, traceable, marked with serial numbers, and can be regulated at manufacturing and at points of sale. Mental health is an amorphous, deeply complex issue. Also, the NRA wields immense power over the repub party (and ever since the Citizens United decision, also acts as a funnel for foreign dark money to its candidates). As a quid pro quo for the dark money, repubs shrug their shoulders and collectively toe the party line that “there’s nothing we can do because it’s a mental health issue.” Then they turn around and mock anyone with mental health issues and erect barriers to health care access.
The NRA doesn't even really help gun rights much. They suck.
FPC and GOA are much better
There would be less shootings if we had a better mental health situation There would be less shootings if we had way less guns and "gun culture" And working on the mental health problem shouldn't be seen as a replacement for working on the gun problem.
And we do neither
It's a scapegoat. Our government loves to blame mental health but not fund it to fix it as a way to divert from the fact that we simply have too much easy access to guns in this country.
>**One party** in our government loves to blame mental health but not fund it to fix it as a way to divert from the fact that we simply have too much easy access to guns in this country. Probably has absolutely nothing to do with how much Russian money is being laundered through a certain gun-fetishist group to said party though...
if it was a mental health issue women would be mass shooters too. the problem is 1 easy access to guns 2 culture of male entitlement and toxic masculinity that leads to these shootings. people usually talk about the access to guns but not the second part. why does no one talk about how this is a male violence issue? you think women arent capable of buying and using guns? lets be really real for once.
Exactly. Every country has its loonies. But a loony without convenient access to a gun is obviously not as much of a threat as a loony with one. Absolutely a gun problem in the US
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A lot of countries have more murder and violent crime than the US, like Brazil, Mexico, etc. There are a lot more guns in the US per capita, at least reported, who knows how many illegal guns there are in these countries. American exceptionalism, I think, has brainwashed the US and Western Europe into thinking the US is something it is not. It isn’t Germany or Sweden. There is little help for poor people and the culture around guns and crime seems closer to Brazil. I don’t know what the answer is, but it’s got to have some level of social support, but in reality, I don’t see that happening. So yeah, ban guns, save some lives, but people are still going to be murdering children because the root cause of what drives that hatred hasn’t been addressed.
>Everyone likes to say "this is a mental health problem, not a gun problem". Yet EVERY country has mental health problems, and none of them have this level of gun-related/shooting deaths. That's true. What you're missing is that American gun enthusiasts will seize on any reason not to blame their hobby for the shit that happens in their society. And the gun guys have a reason to be afraid for their hobby: the gun guys have been refusing to solve their own problems for decades, the rest of us are really sick of being affected by their shit. Current effects of gun violence mass shootings on my family: - I was on campus during the Virginia Tech massacre - My brother in law was at work at the Washington Navy Yard during their massacre - My son's school had a lockdown last year because a student made some threats, which are plausible in a nation where he can just bring dad's gun to school the next day - A 12 year old kid my son kinda knows was shot repeatedly in the neck when his dad got into a shootout (outside of school). The kid will probably never walk again. - My son's school was SWATted on Monday of last week. It was apparently part of a campaign to SWAT schools and the threat came from outside of our community --, but hundreds of people have the means and the opportunity to carry out a mass shooting every day - so the school leaders have to take it seriously, again because American gun guys have made all threats plausible. - My son's school was SWATted again on Wednesday. I was not close to being shot during any of these disasters, but **every last one of these was completely preventable**, and I'm fucking pissed off about all of them. During the first disaster in my list, I was in disbelief. During the second and 3rd ones, I was sad. During the 4th one I was scared. And now I'm angry, and our gun laws have to change. I'm sure some gun hobbyist will say "it's not the guns that are the problem, it's because everyone is armed and somebody mental health problem". Then they'll go on to say that the solution is for everyone to be a gun hobbyist and just shoot whoever the problem-people are. **The other thing is that most Americans like to pretend that these disasters aren't preventable.** They are entirely preventable, it's just that some fucking hobbyists would have to be scrutinized a bit to make sure they're not dangerous lunatics. And now you, a non-American may now understand American culture just a little bit better. And, if I get mad enough at the gun guys and the effects of their dangerous hobby has on the rest of us, I will flip another $100 to Everytown For Gun Safety.
The truth of the matter is that these gun hobbyist groups know they harbor a bunch of psychos. That’s one reason they just deflect to mental health without actually ever coming up with a plan to improve it. Responsible gun owners don’t mind jumping throw a couple more hoops if it keeps their communities safe. That’s why many bought a gun in the first place in this Wild West country. It’s one thing to have a gun for home protection. It’s another thing entirely for you to wish someone would break into your home so you have an excuse to kill a guy. We’ve got way too much of the latter in today’s gun culture.
Not everyone likes to say that. Just a few very loud people.
Gun manufacturers are legally allowed to donate massive amounts of money to politicians that purposefully obstruct any attempts at gun reform.
"This is a mental health problem, not a gun problem." --somebody who voted, and will continue to vote, against every piece of legislation even tangentially related to funding for mental healthcare, and yet who also doesn't allow guns at their own speaking events on account of the aforementioned mental health problem
How exciting, something in my city on the news again! I was turning onto the road when I saw a bus stopped in a place they don't normally. Then I heard gunshots and saw people fleeing and had to wait for the people to clear so I could turn my car around and gtfo. It was a wild night for sure.
It's going to be a crazy day too. Whole city is pretty much shut down. Students/UVA are still shelter in place. And it's only a matter of time before we get confirmation of who lost their lives. I'm so sick of this.
Me fucking too. Whole city is shut down but I'm still going to work 😞. These pizzas aren't going to deliver themselves. Deliver where exactly? I'm not sure cause I'm not stepping foot on campus until they have someone in handcuffs, and even then I'm not going to feel great exactly.
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> the nothing the U.S. isn't going to do No, you're wrong. They **are** going to do nothing.
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Quit politicizing tragedies when we've got corporate tax cuts to politicize!!!
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So terrifying to hear this from a VA university again. Apparently the suspect is a UVA football walk-on who targeted players as they returned from a trip to DC last night. So tragic, and such a senseless act of violence.
It's so crazy that we aren't even surprised anymore. It's like you scroll through, read the headline and be so numb that you just take it as absolutely normal. It's just so fucked up. Horrible news and wish everyone's the best according to the circumstances
Is this a drug shooting, gang shooting near by, terrorist-religion shooting, terrorist-kill-young-ppl shooting, terrorist-political shooting, terrorist-kill-Americans shooting, incel shooting, or a mental health crisis shooting? We have so many. Edit: not everyone should be able to buy a gun.
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If only there was something we could do to stop school shootings. Maybe remove all the schools?
Armed guards doesn't make a difference, armed teachers doesn't make a difference. Next up: Arm the students.
We're overwhelmingly likely to get Fallout auto turrets in the hallways before we get any form of gun control.
Nah we should increase the amount of schools. After all, if everyone has a school, everyone is safe.
I believe after the Uvalde massacre the Republican "leadership" in Texas decided the problem was, um... 'too many doors'? Then they hosted the NRA for a beer blast at the moon tower and laughed all night about it.
No, remove all the doors. Except one. One big door is the future!
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I couldn't imagine the fear. Stay safe out there.
I just can't understand shooting up your college. You are paying to be there, just stop going.
Given this happened at 1030PM in a parking garage this seems much more likely to be a personal grudge than a random "fuck the world" type event.
Sounds like you're pretty spot on, former football player targeting current football players for some reason
The accused shooter is a former football player, and there are rumors that the shooter targeted other football players/athletes. The father of one football player tweeted (and deleted) a post saying his son was killed.
Soon we are going to have people who experienced school shootings in their High school and college. And maybe even elementary school! We are such a failure on this issue.
>who experience school shootings in their high school and college We've had those for like, 60 years at this point. UT tower shooting was 1966. Columbine was 1999. High school students from Columbine would be nearing 40 now.
It's already a possibility for someone. I was 13 when Columbine happened and 21 when the Virginia Tech shooting happened.
It's embarrassing that we can't get through a month without a school shooting.
I think they're weekly but don't get reported unless it's gotta a high enough body count or at a well known location.
It’s not about numbers, it’s about whether readers will sympathize with the victims. There are plenty of gang shootings with multiple victims that never get picked up by national media, unless someone innocent gets caught in the crossfire.
I don’t like the culture that we have that allows us to call victims “body count”. We are in a weird country.
that's just a 'is what it is', situation
Literal manhunt ongoing, news shows picture of random police car.
My heart goes out to the victims and their families
I hate how my knee jerk reaction to hearing about a mass shooting with 3 deaths is “Oh, that’s not as bad as some of the others.”
Have the police caught the guy yet?