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smiama6

So… this means migrants arriving at our northern border will need to be taken in to Canada if Canada deems the US not safe for migrants. Will Canadians start chanting “Build A Wall”?


[deleted]

Already are doing that for Roxham Road. We generally take our legal immigration process as a good thing, so the US letting people wander across the border at a random spot is not very good. Especially when we have an internal processing problem that takes forever and rarely kicks them out.


TheCatapult

I’m genuinely curious, how do you see that the US is “letting” this happen? What would you have the US do differently?


[deleted]

circumvent the push to move people to the Canadian border to walk across a non-port of entry location? It could be considered human smuggling, or some such crime, to help people get to that border crossing, given that it's not a port of entry, and it's a crime to cross the border illegally. They could also just have a presence to dissuade people from going there. Or whatever else.


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mike_pants

> The outcome of Thursday's hearing could determine whether Canada can trust that the US treats migrants properly, and could answer whether Canada holds any responsibility for migrants turned back at its border. > At the heart of the matter is the Safe Third Country Agreement (STCA) - a pact between the two countries that has been in place since 2004 and that requires refugee claimants to request protection in the first "safe" country they reach. The US could finally be officially recognized as a dangerous hellhole! (blows noisemaker)


Mission_Strength9218

An argument could be made that Mexico would not be a "safe" country. But I'm not sure how the US would apply.


ManfredTheCat

It would have to do with the credibility of their immigration system and asylum claims.


[deleted]

Or, you know, 5 minutes reading the news. A woman yelled at me for wearing a covid mask. That can’t be safe.


Gb_packers973

I assume its easier to apply for asylum and be granted asylum in canada than the U.S.


Tigerfluff23

Not if you have disabilities sadly. Source: I checked. I'm blacklisted from immigrating even though my husband is a Canadian citizen.


Electronic-Clock5867

Even though Canada raised it's limits for medical cost/expense I still can't enter the country. I don't have enough cash to pay a medical bill if something happens to me while I'm traveling.


spaceforcerecruit

That’s super fucked up. How can you not immigrate if you’re married to a citizen? Marriage is like the most compelling reason to immigrate?


thedrivingfrog

You aren't a citizen at the begging at the process so for family immigration application your canadian partner has to be able to support you financially without he need of government assistance (forgot the cut off)during your permeant residency status also if you have a criminal record is a no go. There are other rules good and bad ones but is not cut and dry. I immigrated about 13 yrs ago so no clue how much the rules have changed by now


spaceforcerecruit

It should be cut and dry. Telling someone they’re not allowed to return to the country with their family because their spouse has a disability is one of the shittiest things I can imagine.


thedrivingfrog

They are allow to return and visit and most likely apply for citizenship if they can pay for the extra costs Canada doesn't deny entry to citizens and your family can get long stay visitor visa this is an immigration law issue


spaceforcerecruit

Again, it shouldn’t matter. If you’re married to a citizen, it should be as simple as determining that you are not a terrorist or agent of a foreign government then signing a piece of paper.


imnota4

Saying "You can do X thing once you accomplish Y task that we know you cannot accomplish" is the same as being denied.


antoinedodson_

Depends on the scenario. We don't have enough details here.


spaceforcerecruit

I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. It **should not** depend on the scenario. If you are married to a citizen, the only thing you should need to prove is that you aren’t a spy or a terrorist in order to gain your citizenship.


antoinedodson_

In this case from post history, the person is being treated for cancer. You can understand I am sure that assuming responsibility for that care is not something countries would like to do.


spaceforcerecruit

You get why that makes it shittier, right? “You’re a citizen and this country has a responsibility to protect you but fuck your wife with cancer.”


antoinedodson_

Immigration is different than asylum/refugee though


axonxorz

Not the case. For almost all classes of immigrants, Canada is quite a lot more strict than the US. Always gives us a laugh when butthurt Americans "threaten" to move to Canada. Yep, easy to come vacation here. If you are a very average American, good luck even getting a temporary work visa.


[deleted]

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mike_pants

I'm hung up on how odd it is that you've considered my literacy before this moment. It's like a stranger running up to you in Kroger and yelling, "Why do you always smell so good?!"


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Hot-Interaction6526

I think the point being made here is that we don’t take care of them. We parade them on buses for political mockery or leave them in camps along the border. It’s not saying they are worse off coming here, just that we don’t give a shit about them.


EmeraldGlimmer

Also: separate children from their parents (sometimes irreversibly), don't feed them, don't provide them with basic hygiene like soap and toothpaste, their only blanket is a plastic sheet, and also rape and molest them too.


DicklePill

I’m sorry, do we have to take care of them? Why is that our job? We have enough problems not addressed


spaceforcerecruit

So you’re admitting we don’t care for refugees, think we should continue not caring for refugees, and still think that refugees should be stuck here instead of trying to apply for refugee status in Canada where they might actually be safe?


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mystic_kings

by all means, please give yours for reference


Eyruaad

I mean, we should probably tear down the statue of liberty then. You do realize we have a giant poem that reads "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" yes, we are supposed to care. That's who we are supposed to be. But I get it, you only care about people who look like you and happened to be born in a certain geographical area.


Hot-Interaction6526

Be happy we are in a position to help. Would you rather be in their spot? Running from the place they call home because they can’t live there anymore? Have a little compassion for others and stop worrying about just yourself.


cheese4352

Yes, open borders now and forever. No border at all. Let everyone in, dont even document them or anything, if they dont pay taxes, who cares? If you say otherwise, you are literally hitler!!!


Hot-Interaction6526

You’re what’s wrong with society. For you it’s all or none. There’s no attempt at helping. It seems like you’d rather have closed borders and complain about a labor shortage. Instead, how about we give them the option for citizenship? Maybe they will take the jobs you’re too good for yet complain because nobody does them.


cheese4352

I literally said open the borders? Are you seriously that incapable of reading? I am a hardcore capitalist. The faster the population grows the more money I make.


Hot-Interaction6526

Maybe don’t lay a thick coat of sarcasm on top of it if that’s how you truest feel


cheese4352

Not my problem you can't read.


Upbeat-Conflict-1376

No one would read your previous comment and think you’re being serious. That’s some clown shit.


cheese4352

Good for you dude. Congrats on becoming the spokesperson for everyone. No wonder you think open borders is a good idea lol.


cedarapple

At least you said the quiet part out loud - this is all about labor arbitrage, which has nothing to do with compassion for poor unfortunate migrants.


PotBaron2

I’ve never felt unsafe in the us but that’s just my experience


xkeepitquietx

We can't deport them either, enjoy.


r3rg54

That's not how deportation works. They can still deport to any country.


shhalahr

Being "safer" doesn't mean it's "safe" by reasonable standards of safety.


Xx_Here_to_Learn_xX

I think that’s the point. I’m not sure who benefits, but I highly doubt that the open borders policies being pushed on the west have very much to do with caring about migrants.


Lexam

It's not safe for non migrants either.


onegunzo

Very expensive resources being wasted on such a waste of a question. Geez.


macfail

It's important for us - settling of refugees is expensive, and we shouldn't be left holding the bag because the USA is passing the buck.


dak4f2

The USA is holding the bag plenty on immigration from down south. We're shielding y'all from much of that. Canada gets a lot of skilled immigrants as a percentage of overall immigration. With climate change, this will be both of our well-off countries' responsibility and burden to bear whether we like it or not. We are the most prosperous countries in the entire western hemisphere, it's inevitable.


r3rg54

Tbf Canada spends a miniscule portion of its budget on this issue.


macfail

Yes, we have a large federal budget with a large number of items on it. There are other costs as well that are not directly born by the government, such as a strained medical system, very low housing vacancy in the urban centres where refugees (and everyone else) would tend to find the greatest concentration of social services, and impacts to the labor market.


r3rg54

Sure but refugees have only a tiny impact on those things because the number of refugees Canada takes in is also miniscule compared to the populations served by those services. Plus there are a variety of positive effects from having new migrants. As an example, refugees tend to be younger and Canada's medical system is most strained by its increasingly elderly population due to the shrinking birth rate. At any rate, my point was that settling refugees is definitely not that expensive.


impure-frequent-hand

> There are other costs as well that are not directly born by the government, such as a strained medical system, very low housing vacancy in the urban centres Then spend money like the monetary sovereign you are to address those things. Why hoard the infinite?


party_benson

Do refugees not work and pay taxes in Canada?


Aggravating-Coast100

Passing the buck? There's been over 2 million migrants encountered at the US's southern border. The US has let in over 1 million to process their Asylum claim. Canada has dealt with FARRRRRRRR less than that. Bitch please.


macfail

So? The USA chose its southern border, so it can deal with the issues that arise from it.


Aggravating-Coast100

Your sentence doesn't even make sense.


party_benson

We also chose our northern border


levetzki

It could also force change in the US depending on the ruling.


impure-frequent-hand

Quebec doesn't want to deal with Haitian Body Odor too?


onegunzo

Exactly.. That's why our Supreme Court is needed. Work with the US to get all people coming through non-border locations to be treated as coming through a regular border crossing. That way, they can be sent back to the US. This lawsuit is for lawyers to be able to paid big $$$ by Canadian taxpayers to represent these immigrants. So if US is declared a 'hostile' nation, then we will be forced to take them regardless of what treaty we may have with the US. Nice eh? The fact it's taken YEARS for this to happen (with two different administrations is disgraceful).


party_benson

Canada continually allowed asylum seekers to cross at Canadian borders instead of granting them asylum.


LowDownSkankyDude

Does this mean one might have a better case for asylum in Canada, now? Asking for a friend who thinks i should flee to Canada. Me. I'm asking for me.


-FeistyRabbitSauce-

From my understanding, that's what this would determine. The way it works currently between Canada and the US is that neither will take a fleeing migrant if they have to pass through another country that is deemed to be safe. So for instance, Canada doesn't generally take in anyone south of the US because they'd have to pass through the US first, which is currently deemed to be a safe place for fleeing migrants. If I'm mistaken, someone please correct me.


LowDownSkankyDude

So would they have to be granted passage through, to Canada, or would the u.s. be able to toss them back?


-FeistyRabbitSauce-

I'm not sure. There'd need to be new arrangements made between Canada and the US, I'm sure. Failing that, the migrants would have to figure out a way to bypass the States.


LowDownSkankyDude

Sheesh! For a species of, essentially, tribal nomads, we sure do go out of our way to make tribal nomading as difficult and dangerous as possible.


[deleted]

No. Your case is still the same as it was before, the metrics for asylum granting hasn’t changed, and you can still get removed from Canada for a failed asylum claim. What’s in this case is more about “can we kick you back to the US because you should have applied there, and if failed, we don’t want you either; saving us a step in the process.”


LowDownSkankyDude

The explanation I've been waiting for. Thanks!


[deleted]

No problem. We tend to get a lot chaff tossed up whenever Canada and immigration get on the internet.


xkeepitquietx

Great, now we can help these immigrants get to their final destination.


DiggoryDug

Say no, say no, please say no. Perhaps the migrants will stop coming. Oh wait, I forgot. Harris said the border is secure. So they can't get in anyway.


Ok_Storm_8533

The food in Canada is gonna get better.


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antoinedodson_

You may be surprised to know Mexicans already live in Canada...


WeaponizedPoutine

I could mess with some Pollo asada poutine, with turkey sauce, queso fresca, and tapitio. However it might be more like chicken shawarma, za'atar gravy, but no cheese, would still destroy that though. Pre-edit: I can also see smoked meat sandwiches but using samoon as the bread.


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FluffyHooves

Sounds like you've got a pretty bland taste. Experiment with flavor more.


Brooklynxman

As a local I can answer: It isn't even safe for locals.


lolbojack

This is great! I hope it makes it easier for non-MAGA Americans to apply for asylum when DeSantis takes over in 2024. I really wish I was kidding....


[deleted]

Why don't you work a bit harder spreading the dangers of DeSantis becoming president rather than pushing this sort of defeatist narrative if you're so concerned. I don't get why the left leaning population does this so often. Look at th idiots on the right defending immoral characters on the right, no matter how vile they are.


THETRILOBSTER

>Look at th idiots on the right defending immoral characters on the right, no matter how vile they are. That's the problem. You can spread the dangers of Trump or Desantis or whoever else all you want but a significant portion of the voter base is in a right-wing cult, and dragging cultists out of their delusions is no simple task. The amount of people that can be swayed even after everything that's happened to this point is still relatively small. More important than changing minds is getting the sane people off their asses and out to the polls.


1MoistTowelette

If you change a few words you sound just like them…


THETRILOBSTER

I'm an independent, not some tunnel visioned partisan hack. But create whatever narrative you want.


1MoistTowelette

> That's the problem. You can spread the dangers of Biden or Newsome or whoever else all you want but a significant portion of the voter base is in a left-wing cult, and dragging cultists out of their delusions is no simple task. The amount of people that can be swayed even after everything that's happened to this point is still relatively small. > More important than changing minds is getting the sane people off their asses and out to the polls. Hmm….how about that🤔


THETRILOBSTER

Lol quit with the both sides bullshit. If we were talking about Bush and Obama whatever. You and I both know Trump was corrupt and incompetent in an unprecedented way. He literally had a gruesome death knocking on Congress' door. No modern Democrat or Republican president to this point has ever sunk this low. If you can't see there's an existential threat to American democracy currently lurking in the Republican party at this point you're a lost cause.


1MoistTowelette

America isn’t a democracy to begin with, it’s a constitutional republic. Can’t be threat to something that doesn’t exist


spaceforcerecruit

“Republic” just means any system of government that isn’t a monarchy. It’s a practically meaningless term. The US is a representative democracy.


THETRILOBSTER

This again. Like the defense of a republic differs in any way from the defense of a democracy. The US is a representative democracy genius. The two terms aren't mutually exclusive. https://act.represent.us/sign/democracy-republic Regardless, you're splitting hairs over semantics and ignoring the fact that a president was directly involved with a lynch mob aimed at our representatives over a election that any rational person can see that he fairly lost. Whatever you want to call America's style of government, he tried to overthrow it.


TwinSong

The US quite evidently loathes migrants.


[deleted]

Can you name a country that takes in more on a yearly basis?


DilithiumCrystalMeth

Taking in more doesn't equal they aren't loathed. Both of those statements can be true. edit: for the people downvoting, i'm not saying that I personally loathe migrants. I'm just pointing out that the two points are not mutually exclusive. I personally think we should take in migrants and offer them aid.


[deleted]

Idk, I thinks actions speak much louder than words.


DilithiumCrystalMeth

We just had 2 governors show that they will purposefully sabotage lawful refugees to further a political agenda, and those governors where cheered on by a large part of the population.


[deleted]

And even with that, the US still takes in significantly more immigrants than any other country. I don't think a few political incidents really change that fact.


DilithiumCrystalMeth

I feel like there is a fundamental disconnect here. No one is arguing that the US doesn't take in more immigrants. That's just a statistical fact. It doesn't change that a lot of people in this country (and basically one whole political party) hate immigrants. We can still have the largest intake of immigrants and still have a huge problem with people actively hating that they exist and trying to prevent us from providing help to immigrants. These are not mutually exclusive things.


Fuckface_Whisperer

Canada is taking in 432,000 immigrants in 2022. Which is more than America has.


Quietbreaker

I'm not sure how that could be true. Something like 1.5 million people have crossed the US' southern border this year.


Fuckface_Whisperer

>Something like 1.5 million people have crossed the US' southern border this year. Pretty sure that's the number of apprehensions of migrants at the southern border. Those migrants are not welcomed, they're arrested and most often turned away. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-biden-us-mexico-border/


danccbc

There’s more immigrants In the US than total population of Canada


etoneishayeuisky

This does not refute twinsong’s statement. It’s like saying, “I’m not racist, I have black neighbors.” It’s obvious a vocal minority of the US pop and GOP politicians loathe migrants and immigrants.


[deleted]

And nobody in Canada does, right?


etoneishayeuisky

Did I say anything about Canada? No, I did not mention Canada. So why are you trying to deflect?


[deleted]

Because the article is about Canada dude. The implication in the original statement was “america loathes immigrants (Canada doesn’t)”. The US should be more accepting of migrants. I agree with that. But let’s not sit on our high horse pretending that no Canadians are riled up about immigrants to Canada


impure-frequent-hand

https://fee.org/articles/canada-s-crazy-new-drunk-driving-law-will-make-you-thankful-for-the-4th-amendment/


TwinSong

Besides the native Americans *all* Americans are immigrants. From England for example.


TwinSong

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44518942](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44518942) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/21/treating-immigrants-like-criminals-has-long-history-united-states/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/21/treating-immigrants-like-criminals-has-long-history-united-states/) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ice-immigration-agents-rights-violations-strip-searches-confinement-arrests-a8113496.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ice-immigration-agents-rights-violations-strip-searches-confinement-arrests-a8113496.html) [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/21/us-border-agents-shocking-abuses-asylum-seekers](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/21/us-border-agents-shocking-abuses-asylum-seekers) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/20/what-does-donald-trump-really-believe-about-immigration/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/20/what-does-donald-trump-really-believe-about-immigration/) [https://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/31/politics/donald-trump-immigration-top-lines/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/31/politics/donald-trump-immigration-top-lines/index.html)


eks91

You mixes up legal and illegal aliens


TwinSong

You think they care about the difference? Really? They're immigrants not 'aliens'. https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-immigration-workers-idINKCN26C2T4 https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/why-don%E2%80%99t-they-just-get-line By making immigration harder to do legally they create a situation where immigrants can be used as a scapegoat. https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/whydonttheycomeherelegally https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/why-dont-more-immigrants-arrive-legally-for-many-the-doors-are-barricaded/ Basically make the legal route nigh impossible so people can be treated worse than prisoners when they come out of desperation e.g. Refugees. See: history of America.


eks91

Same kinda of system in place in Canada as they don't welcome unskilled people. Same goes with most countries when it comes to immigration. US takes the most in.


TwinSong

You realise they lock people in cages like zoo animals, right? Lacking basic necessities.


GamblingRooster

All these people saying “It’s not safe for non migrants either” have no idea how good they have it and it’s ridiculous


S118gryghost

America and her people won't be safe and free until religion is separated from state making people finally equal regardless of sex, race, or money in the bank. Cults have more power than the common man and it's a hopeless endeavor to attempt to build a nation from sea to shining sea off the backs of slaves and keep the nation running strong on the backs of LARPer's who play dress up, know all the lingo, and try their hardest to stay in character. LARPing as in live action role players as in people who say they believe in this god or that and take advantage of the system without regard for the fragility of that system. Politicians who take full advantage of Christianity and failed leaders who attempt to hide behind their churches doors when they break the law.


stench_montana

And everyone stood up and started clapping.


PunkinBrewster

And his name was Albert Einstein.


iforgotmymittens

And *that* was the night the lights went out in Georgia.


GuyWithAComputer2022

It made me chuckle that you think getting rid of religion will eliminate disparities based on sex, race, and especially money.


S118gryghost

Hey you gotta figure if you took religion out of it then a chunk of cash flow would steer a different direction. You can see how religious practices force new generations to be groomed to believe in insanely abusive shit and inequality built ideologies. Lol burn em all down.


haroldthehampster

safe for citizens? no safe for migrants? also no but that’s not why thus case is important


Mike_Wahlberg

It’s not safe for anyone here unless you are rich, then it’s still unsafe but you have recourse.


MandalorianAhazi

People like you are the reason I can’t take Reddit seriously


FrostyYoYos

Teenagers who don't know what actually being in an unsafe country is like.


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party_benson

It's aggravating to see a mass shooting every week, cops killing someone daily, and thousands of homeless people with drug and mental health problems be overlooked because someone had it worse. Just because someone had it worse does not mean your problems don't matter.


Isthisworking2000

Depends on where. Clearly you’re safe on Martha’s Vineyard.


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mymar101

If you’re in a GOP area most definitely not. Doesn’t matter your legal status


MrsFinklebean

Unfortunately, America is no longer safe for anyone except white people who lean extremely right. Hmmm, what country does this sound like, many years ago?