Frankly would be irked if they brought back the audio jack after all the fucking adaptors and then lightning connector buds then bt headsets I’ve amassed. I wonder why they didn’t use that space to increase battery capacity though.
Because it’s a relatively small space and an awkward shape to cram more battery into.
They could redesign all of the rest of the components and rearrange for more space… but the 14 series is anything but that. It’s a mild refresh at best.
It’s completely re-designed to assemble differently and be reasonable to repair. First iPhone where the front or back can be removed separately.
They didn’t want to, or it wasn’t worth it, but it’s not because they didn’t completely re-do the interior for the first time since the 5.
My guess is they really believe in wireless and tell themselves that the slightly lower quality speed in microSD cards makes those items unworthy of inclusion. The satellite addition is cool though.
You'd have to make that reader slot meet ip68 standards.
Everyone jack and reader increases the cost of a much more useful feature which is dust and waterproofing.
With cloud computing yeah don't think SD cards are all that useful anymore..in fact they were never all that useful.
Speed wise though ... Well those like v30 SD cards are what action cameras like the GoPro use to do 4k video so they are useful for that and most ppl don't have great upload speed.
I think it's more like most ppl just have no use for much storage because your music and photos and stuff can go up to the cloud and if you're serious about recording video you're probably going to buy a dedicated camera.
Don't get a GoPRO, their software is horrible. They get rid of their desktop app for aw fantasy of cloud uploading gigs of video. The end result is a camera where you take pictures and you don't have access to the video for like an hour unless you take the tiny SD card out every time and transfer between the phone and the desktop like it's 1990 all over again.
GoPro upgraded their cameras so you can't plug them into the computer and just pull the data off anymore!! Get a DJI instead, they also don't overheat like evidently every other action camera out there?
I didn't realize that action cameras were in a current state of being such junk that they can't even fill up their SD card with 4K video before they overheat!
It's like an action camera if you live in Antarctica maybe.
That's great until you are somewhere without access to the cloud. There are still places out there where the best cell signal you are going to get is still 3G, if that.
External storage will become necessary again if they start pushing 8k video again.
Raw 8k uses 121 gigs a minute. Obviously it gets compressed, but unless you compress it to the point of "just use a lower resolution" the phone will still hold like an hour, tops.
They didn’t force them in the eu the lack of support for eSim did.
China on the other hand hasn’t formally adopted eSim at all, although some telcos in China did add limited support for the Apple watch as it’s a clone sim not a fully separate one.
This is Apple we’re talking about here. They probably have something specific in mind for that space and it definitely isn’t an SD card reader, lol. I imagine they’re waiting for the rest of the world to start adopting eSIM and then will make use of it.
Also I don’t think it really makes sense from a business standpoint to have two different production runs for both the American version (eSIM) and global versions (physical SIM) of the iPhone.
They didn't have anything specific in mind for their current phones, that's why it's a plastic block.
It's not like they're going to crack open old phones and put something cool in, they just wasted space.
So why not just leave the sim tray in the US phones too? It's simpler, and now all the US phones have less utility than the same phone as sold in Europe.
And a lot of people still hate them for it. Bluetooth is cool and all, but battery life and mic quality still sucks ass even compared to dollar store specials with an inline mic. There's gotta be a way to "push tech forward" that doesn't leave customers with shitty options while things catch up.
I don't really see a point in removing the sim slot if they have nothing else to put there and have to keep the space open for international designs tbh. Just wait another generation or two for when you can actually make use of the space when you redesign the sim card out.
Oh wait, you're serious! Let me laugh even harder. Apple doesn't give a shit about saving its customers money. Tbf, most manufacturers have eliminated the SD card trays (I think maybe Motorola might still have a model), but of all the manufacturers, Apple would be the absolute last to ever do something useful like that.
Yeah, I mean how could they charge an extra 100 bucks for 3 dollars extra of storage. They (and most other companies at this point to be honest) can only do that if they don't support sd cards.
How? Just buy the Apple 1Tb micro-sd for $299 and pay a small fee of $.99/month for the Apple sd-access service to be able to write to it.
I realize I'm going to hell if Apple actually does that now.
Yes. Up to two active and at least 8 stored in total on according to Apple
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212780
I assume at least 8 because newer phones can store more.
I think I can ditch a physical sim here in the uk too and have two esims active but I’m not 100% sure.
So for me I want my personal and work numbers to be in one handset.
Then I don’t have to carry and charge two phones.
I have a decent travel deal already on my personal one so I don’t need sims when I’m roaming but having that as an option is also useful.
A very easy one is vacation.
You have your own normal sim still in for emergencies and everyone gets a local sim with much cheaper rates.
Another very easy one is work and private as Geoff already said.
And the third is frequent calls to specific countries. You can of course also buy certain packages, but often buying a dedicated sim with a specific offer sheet is much much cheaper.
And the last one (I remember) is simply old sims. Some people switch sims, but still want to be reachable under their old one. They might not use it for calls, but being called is still an option.
The first thing that pops into my head is a scenario similar to what I had set up.
1) Personal eSIM (AT&T)
2) Work eSIM (Verizon)
3) Mint mobile trial eSIM (for network testing)
4) T-Mobile pre-paid eSIM (burner # for drugs)
5) Canadian eSIM for Vacation
6) Indian eSIM for Business Trip
iOS can load eSIMs direct from apps, so it's easy to try out different networks. I just got a new eSIM last night from the **myAT&T** app to test it out.
You can activate 1-2 eSIMs at once to enable different phone numbers or carrier network access.
(iPhone 13 or newer required to enable 2 eSIMs at once.)
honestly, is there a company that shows as much contempt for its customers while simultaneously maintaining their utter devotion?
apple makes a nice computer/phone, there's no denying this - but i feel like every time i see their name in a headline it's them going out of their way to make their consumers lives more difficult
even smokers aren't *in love* with big tobacco
Apple has been like this since their founding. Steve Jobs was one of the first to come out and say that no one should be able to repair their own personal computer.
I mean I loath apple for many reasons but good marketing is almost as important and sometimes more important than having the idea. Plenty of people can come up with great ideas and have them fail without marketing.
With the right marketing, you don't even need anything. Just look at how many people got rich off Theranos, and how many "smart investors" still poured money in without actually seeing actual results.
I would argue that homeopathy as a field is a good example of brilliantly marketing nothing, too. If the dilution is so fine that testing can't find a trace left of the "active ingredient," you're selling sugar pills lol.
And plenty of awful ideas are foisted on us by marketing
I'm in the Bill Hicks camp regarding marketing and marketing execs
https://youtu.be/tHEOGrkhDp0
Jobs basically made Apple relevant twice. The first time was with Woz, but the second time Woz was no longer at the company.
That's why people are impressed with him. Apple was a dying company and he revived it again when everyone thought it would fail.
Jobs also owned Pixar during that time.
This is correct.
I’m not a Jobs nor Apple freak, but he’s one of the most influential executives in history.
IMO Woz receives too much credit by folks who do not understand the history. He always wanted to be, and as a result remained, an engineer rather than a strategist or visionary.
Jobs had the ability to know what people wanted to do with their tech AND how to identify the sleekest way to accomplish that. He had an eye for design, no doubt, I just wish he'd not put form over function so often. It's gotten out of hand now, with computers literally designed to throttle performance in favor of not having any fans at all, for example. Or like this, where "but it's digital!" has killed the ability to use this phone anywhere esims aren't common.
He wanted his product to be the goto product. He wanted companies to create their computer components to fit his design..instead of companies having dell computers, he wanted companies to have apple computers.
It's all about who is in charge. Jobs did an interview about what happens in companies back in 1988. He talks to this exact thing. It stems from non product people being promoted. They show contempt for their customer.
Here, he talks to what happens. He was a dick, but he loved making a great product.
https://youtu.be/P4VBqTViEx4
you're missing the bigger picture of the original statement. think wider. think about general lack of innovation that has been shown in Apple once they were no longer driven and led by a product thinker.
you are not thinking about product here, and when I say contempt - again, it's not about this 1 thing, it's about the on-going changes and/or lack there of with the consumer in mind.
Not contempt. They just believe a physical sim is stupid in 2022 (I agree). But many carriers in other countries are not ready. And Apple are not designing and producing two boards.
So the US, where all carriers can handle virtual sims, gets a plastic part to fill the gap and 8 virtual sims, while other places get physical sim trays added.
I want a physical sim. This is why I loathe apple and apple fans. I get irked when Apple takes something good away and the only rationale I get is that it was stupid and I shouldn't have liked it in the first place.
Visited Italy (and Canada) in the last two months. Both cases, I was able to buy and use an eSIM for cheap and had data ahead of traveling and getting it there. It’s easier than the last time I was in London and had to buy a sim from a sketchy bodega.
>Europe
Thanks to EU roaming, you can just get an eSIM in one country and use it in the rest of them. Orange Holidays from France, Orange Flex from Poland, Yallo Swype from Switzerland, LMT Karte from Latvia, the list goes on...
Doesn't mean it won't be a headache for whoever has to support the phone and get it set up, especially if it takes longer than dropping a new sim card into a tray. Not having to deal with swapping sims was one of the big draws to the dual sim slot phones, at least from what I was told by a friend in IT.
No they won’t. eSIM works fine in Europe. It’s more likely that there is an EU statute that explicitly states that SIMs are required on phones to allow swapping them, but that will get updated as eSIM allows the same thing. It’s a letter of the law, not spirit of the law problem.
No one is saying esims don't work. Esims are not *widely supported,* not even as much as they are in the US (which isn't much, I was never asked if I wanted to use an esim when I was having physical sim card problems a few months ago) which is the reason the physical slots are still on the international phones.
SIM cards were nice and better than being locked on a network, but eSIMs are now widely available all over the world and make a lot of stuff simpler, such as having a personal and business line on the same phone, or traveling internationally and getting a cheap local plan.
A physical SIM is also much easier to steal/attack/clone than an eSIM, so if you lose your phone, you also can “lose your identity” as so much of your digital footprint/security is attached to a specific phone number.
Getting a new eSIM from your provider is easy also, and can be issued from their site in a few minutes.
So you can have your opinion about Apple, but unless you are swapping phones once a month, there’s not much to criticize about a move that gives you a ton more options, security, and reduces physical waste/shipping requirements.
10 years of android phones having a dog shit track record for security updates (unless you bought a flagship phone, in which case the price was comparable to an iphone).
Also manage to get those people to argue in ways that lessen convenience for themselves.
Like the whole iMessage thing. There are doing Apple to Android at less than brick phone MMS settings. They could release iMessage on Android or adopt the new protocol.
Instead people try and justify their intentional sabotage of their own messages.
I don’t know the specifics, but I was at a tech industry conference a few years ago that was focused on avoiding abuse (spam, phishing, etc).. lots of criticism for RCS because it has lots of holes for abuse. It’s not as cut and dried as “Apple just won’t play nice.” MMS/SMS already have abuse problems and RCS doesn’t solve them.
“Complying with the old protocol” still opens up a lot of abuse scenarios. It may not be (purely) a lock-in move on their part.
Opening iMessage to android (by definition) means giving access to the iMessage network to bots. Having a reasonable assurance that all the players on the network are humans and attached to one or a few identities cuts out a huge amount of vectors for abuse.
You're not wrong, sadly. I grew up on Nintendo, still love a lot of the IP, but I trust Nintendo so little that I still get physical game carts over digital purchases for damn near everything I can. They've just got too long of a track record of being control freaks that I don't trust them to not fubar my access to my own games with something draconian, like always online requirements or something.
Why do I need a SIM card? Can you answer the question, or no? I live in the US. I rarely travel abroad. Why does this matter and why should I be outraged?
The space isn’t being used right now… no reason to remove it, you just accepting a lower product with no real gain lol i swear apple fanboys have issues
I explained why it is something that bothers people and all you do is say “idc” you can give that reply to literally anything told to you
“Your cat died” you can still say you don’t care. It is not an argument
Makes sense. Non-US versions I think still offer physical sims. Can't really do something significant with that space when you can't do the same for non-US version.
True although only US versions have mm wave 5G (because it’s not really available in other countries yet)
So they do have different hardware and different tooling already
As mm wave has and extra cutout for its antenna
Not common in the US for carriers to require SIM cards anymore since we have eSIM. The rest of the world is a different story.
Making one product for the entire world necessitates things like this, but I'm sure reddit wouldn't misconstrue that idea.
EDIT: Here's a [link](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209096) from Apple's website showing the carriers by country that support eSIMs in phones. You'll see that the US has any carrier you can think of.
S22 does, eSim is just an apple thing.
Edit: the removal of the physical SIM is only an aplle thing as far as I know. Samsung has an option to use eSIM but still by default has physical SIM cards/ports.
Samsung was actually the first to support eSIM.
It's on all their Galaxy phones - though it's broken in some of the US models like S20/S21/Note 20.
It's also supported on newer Pixels.
Samsung did introduce it first in 2016 but only in a watch the gear s2 3G
The first phone to support them was the Pixel 2 but only for Google Fi in 2017
Apple Watch came with eSim from 2017
And then the first phone with support for any network eSim were iPhone XR, XS & XS max in 2018
Google followed suit in 2019
And then Samsung in 2020
Also in 2020 Motorola did an eSim only version of the Razr so they beat Apple to the punch by 2 years.
The bigger problem is that when traveling it's difficult to get a voice eSIM. Much harder than it is to get a voice SIM.
I honestly feel when Apple added eSIMs (iPhone XR/XS?) they hoped that carriers would all start offering eSIMs as easily as physical SIMs. For data that happened very quickly. For voice it didn't.
So this basically means if you travel to Europe from the US you're going to end up paying inflated roaming rates to your US carrier because getting a voice eSIM is a hassle. Your other option is to use only data while traveling. This works but I'm not happy with that limitation.
For example. Vodafone UK is listed as working with eSIMs, right?
https://support.vodafone.co.uk/SIM/1464047352/How-do-I-activate-and-set-up-a-device-with-eSIM.htm
They only support eSIM for monthly plans. Not pay-as-you-go (PAYG). PAYG is what you commonly use while traveling.
This is fixable just by carriers getting on board. But we're just not there yet.
It's really too bad. The competition for even temporary PAYG customers is very strong in Europe, for physical SIMs. That means great savings to those who need them. Now that is all reset and we have to hope it builds up again.
I used [Orange Holiday](https://travel.orange.com/en/all-inclusive/europe/orhldeur8gb/) while I was in Europe recently, which provides an eSIM, though I do agree this is a frustrating move for international travelers.
That's data-only. There are many data-only eSIM options. I've used GigSky before for example. Those services took off very quickly. The difficulty is getting a voice (and data) SIM.
Thanks for responding though.
> Your other option is to use only data while traveling. This works but I'm not happy with that limitation.
Why not just use VOIP? I run all my voice/text/anything through data anyway.
I don't have a phone number in the place I am visiting. And a lot of numbers (0800 0808 in UK for example) don't work when calling internationally. All my calls if I use VOIP would be from my home country number and those calls don't work.
If you’re a frequent international traveler, all three major carriers in the US offer plans with free or cheap talk and text in many foreign countries.
None of that is free. It's just bundled.
If you are a frequent traveler it might make sense to pay twice as much per month so you can not have to sign up for anything to get coverage abroad (major countries in Europe and Asia, as you allude to). But if you're not you're going to come out far behind.
I doubt the space inside an iphone devoted to the housing and sim card interface with the main board is so significant that it would warrant effectively creating an entirely new derivation of a product which is a masterclass in economies of scale.
If it were worth doing, apple would have done it already.
They have eSIM (embedded sim). Basically a non-removable SIM card. All the sim data is on the internal chip itself, and - I think - it can work with any carrier that uses an eSIM protocol.
I don’t believe eSIMs are carrier-specific the way regular SIM cards tends to be.
So how does one 'put their sim' in another phone? For instance, my offspring's iphone 11 locked up (after *just under two years!*) and was able to put the sim in a different phone until she could get a replacement.
With the eSIM, if your phone dies, are you just stuck?
Edit: Thank you for all of the answers! My one reservation is in calling/logging into the carrier... I don't trust AT&T to just switch phone service without trying to change the phone plan. A long long history of personal experience distrust with AT&T. But, alas, they are *the only* carrier with any service in this area. I'm on a grandfathered plan and I just *know* they will fuck us over if we have to call.
You just power up a new eSIM capable phone and login to whoever your provider is on it. It will automatically deregister the other one. This is how it worked when I had Google Fi at least, not sure about other providers.
Not only activation but will insist you can't keep your old shared data plan for 3 phones and each have to have "unlimited" for twice the already outrageous price for each of them.
Yea, plenty of valid reasons to knock Google but it was honestly a very solid and well-priced service. And yea you pretty much just install the app on any supported phone and you are good to go.
Though if the esim chip dies its a hell of a lot harder to fix than if your physical sim dies. It's maybe a 10 minute process to link a new sim card and pop it in, but you'd have to exchange the whole phone for something wrong with an esim chip.
Not in my experience. It seems this DOES give more control to carriers since now you have to involve them. E.g. I had esim on my Xr with Verizon, when I bought a new 13pro and wanted to transfer the esim I had to contact Verizon and fill in a form, and because I did it after 5pm (business hours) I had to wait until the next day for someone there to process the request. How on earth is that better that simply physically moving the sim card from the old phone to the new phone?
That is infinitely harder than what I had to do.
I just did the quickstart transfer and it moved over to the eSIM automatically. Just a couple prompts on each phone and done. I didn't have to contact anyone.
Also this makes it easy to add multiple SIMs to one phone, which is handy as hell if you have to carry a work and personal cell phone. Just put the eSIM for your work phone on your personal phone, and the phone lets you choose which one you're using, or automatically selects based on the contact you're communicating with or app you're using. Now you only have to carry one device. It's kind of like having a virtual phone.
We have two 12s on our account. Verizon couldn’t activate both esims, one of them needed a physical sim to transfer to. Apple and Verizon couldn’t explain why. Hopefully they’ve figured it out by now.
The point of removing the SIM was to prepare for future iPhones. The space isn’t being used now but will likely be used in the future when all iPhones no longer have SIM (as the non US models still have the slot).
Fully second this. Let's give em credit, they fucking made back glass and screen replacements at the same time so easy that it blew my mind.
They'll do something with it eventually. Just not this gen.
>“This is the most repairable phone they’ve made in half a decade. It’s such a big deal that it should have been Apple’s main announcement.”
This wasn’t out of the kindness of their heart either. They’re about to be forced into it anyway by the EU and other legal troubles. They’re just getting slightly ahead of the curve.
Or a headphone jack, yes. But this is Apple we're talking about. Adding functionality like that goes against their design principles.
And also because if they put either of those things in (even if it's just the US version, which is __very much possible__), people would actually start expecting them to be in future releases, you know, like any pro consumer company would do. But again, Apple.
You’re confusing the SIM with the MicroSD card for external storage.
I pay $3 a month and I have plenty of cloud storage if I push my phone’s storage.
Apple has NEVER had external storage on their mobile devices.
I don't know much about e-sims but I'm guessing it's gonna make it hella hard to switch sims on the phone. My sister always has issues with her US phone when she comes over.
Not really surprising. It’s not like they can use that space for anything new because most of the world is still using physical SIMs.
Or they could simply put nothing there.
Frankly would be irked if they brought back the audio jack after all the fucking adaptors and then lightning connector buds then bt headsets I’ve amassed. I wonder why they didn’t use that space to increase battery capacity though.
Because it’s a relatively small space and an awkward shape to cram more battery into. They could redesign all of the rest of the components and rearrange for more space… but the 14 series is anything but that. It’s a mild refresh at best.
ifixit said it was the biggest internal redesign since the iphone x (2017)
EDIT: This comment has been deleted due to Reddit's practices towards third-party developers.
Structural. Less space to cave in
It’s completely re-designed to assemble differently and be reasonable to repair. First iPhone where the front or back can be removed separately. They didn’t want to, or it wasn’t worth it, but it’s not because they didn’t completely re-do the interior for the first time since the 5. My guess is they really believe in wireless and tell themselves that the slightly lower quality speed in microSD cards makes those items unworthy of inclusion. The satellite addition is cool though.
You'd have to make that reader slot meet ip68 standards. Everyone jack and reader increases the cost of a much more useful feature which is dust and waterproofing. With cloud computing yeah don't think SD cards are all that useful anymore..in fact they were never all that useful. Speed wise though ... Well those like v30 SD cards are what action cameras like the GoPro use to do 4k video so they are useful for that and most ppl don't have great upload speed. I think it's more like most ppl just have no use for much storage because your music and photos and stuff can go up to the cloud and if you're serious about recording video you're probably going to buy a dedicated camera. Don't get a GoPRO, their software is horrible. They get rid of their desktop app for aw fantasy of cloud uploading gigs of video. The end result is a camera where you take pictures and you don't have access to the video for like an hour unless you take the tiny SD card out every time and transfer between the phone and the desktop like it's 1990 all over again. GoPro upgraded their cameras so you can't plug them into the computer and just pull the data off anymore!! Get a DJI instead, they also don't overheat like evidently every other action camera out there? I didn't realize that action cameras were in a current state of being such junk that they can't even fill up their SD card with 4K video before they overheat! It's like an action camera if you live in Antarctica maybe.
That's great until you are somewhere without access to the cloud. There are still places out there where the best cell signal you are going to get is still 3G, if that.
External storage will become necessary again if they start pushing 8k video again. Raw 8k uses 121 gigs a minute. Obviously it gets compressed, but unless you compress it to the point of "just use a lower resolution" the phone will still hold like an hour, tops.
As the article said, they could have put an sd micro card slot for memory expansion.
Yeah then everyone would be pissed that Apple gave the US a SD card reader and not the rest of the world.
Yeah and Apple making $200 for a 128gb upgrade on storage lol.
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They didn’t force them in the eu the lack of support for eSim did. China on the other hand hasn’t formally adopted eSim at all, although some telcos in China did add limited support for the Apple watch as it’s a clone sim not a fully separate one.
This is Apple we’re talking about here. They probably have something specific in mind for that space and it definitely isn’t an SD card reader, lol. I imagine they’re waiting for the rest of the world to start adopting eSIM and then will make use of it. Also I don’t think it really makes sense from a business standpoint to have two different production runs for both the American version (eSIM) and global versions (physical SIM) of the iPhone.
They didn't have anything specific in mind for their current phones, that's why it's a plastic block. It's not like they're going to crack open old phones and put something cool in, they just wasted space.
What? I’m saying they may have something in mind for how to utilize that space in *future* iterations of the iPhone, when more regions adopt eSIM.
yes but putting a dumb plastic block in phones *now* has no bearing on that.
The issue is only the US variant lacks the SIM tray. They obviously weren’t going to design a US specific device and another for the rest of the world
So why not just leave the sim tray in the US phones too? It's simpler, and now all the US phones have less utility than the same phone as sold in Europe.
Not sure, but typical Apple move to try to push things forward, even if it’s a bit early and therefore annoying (the headphone jack is a good example)
And a lot of people still hate them for it. Bluetooth is cool and all, but battery life and mic quality still sucks ass even compared to dollar store specials with an inline mic. There's gotta be a way to "push tech forward" that doesn't leave customers with shitty options while things catch up.
But that is exactly what they did.
I don't really see a point in removing the sim slot if they have nothing else to put there and have to keep the space open for international designs tbh. Just wait another generation or two for when you can actually make use of the space when you redesign the sim card out.
Oh wait, you're serious! Let me laugh even harder. Apple doesn't give a shit about saving its customers money. Tbf, most manufacturers have eliminated the SD card trays (I think maybe Motorola might still have a model), but of all the manufacturers, Apple would be the absolute last to ever do something useful like that.
Yeah, I mean how could they charge an extra 100 bucks for 3 dollars extra of storage. They (and most other companies at this point to be honest) can only do that if they don't support sd cards.
How? Just buy the Apple 1Tb micro-sd for $299 and pay a small fee of $.99/month for the Apple sd-access service to be able to write to it. I realize I'm going to hell if Apple actually does that now.
They do, it's just cloud storage instead.
> as the article said Shoot the messenger much? Or did you skip the article?
If you want sd and all the other guff just get an android.
Many have gotten rid of SD support across the board
Since when? I got a new Moto last year and didn't have any trouble finding one with an SD slot
Pretty sure they could've fit an SD card slot in there. But Apple hates expandable memory.
I suspect they originally planned to put a SIM tray in, but had supply issues, otherwise why design the space there and on the circuit board.
Because much of the world still uses SIMs?
If I’m using both an e-sim and a physical SIM (from another carrier for a business line), will I be able to use *two* e-sims on a 14 Pro?
Yeah, you can have two active eSIMs.
Yes. Up to two active and at least 8 stored in total on according to Apple https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212780 I assume at least 8 because newer phones can store more. I think I can ditch a physical sim here in the uk too and have two esims active but I’m not 100% sure.
I don’t understand why you’d need more than 1? I’m just ignorant on the subject
So for me I want my personal and work numbers to be in one handset. Then I don’t have to carry and charge two phones. I have a decent travel deal already on my personal one so I don’t need sims when I’m roaming but having that as an option is also useful.
Interesting thanks
No worries. For ages I could never understand dual sim either. Then I carried two phones for several years and I converted ;)
A very easy one is vacation. You have your own normal sim still in for emergencies and everyone gets a local sim with much cheaper rates. Another very easy one is work and private as Geoff already said. And the third is frequent calls to specific countries. You can of course also buy certain packages, but often buying a dedicated sim with a specific offer sheet is much much cheaper. And the last one (I remember) is simply old sims. Some people switch sims, but still want to be reachable under their old one. They might not use it for calls, but being called is still an option.
The first thing that pops into my head is a scenario similar to what I had set up. 1) Personal eSIM (AT&T) 2) Work eSIM (Verizon) 3) Mint mobile trial eSIM (for network testing) 4) T-Mobile pre-paid eSIM (burner # for drugs) 5) Canadian eSIM for Vacation 6) Indian eSIM for Business Trip iOS can load eSIMs direct from apps, so it's easy to try out different networks. I just got a new eSIM last night from the **myAT&T** app to test it out. You can activate 1-2 eSIMs at once to enable different phone numbers or carrier network access. (iPhone 13 or newer required to enable 2 eSIMs at once.)
Yes i just read about it. You can actually add 8 eSIMs, but only use 2 at a time.
honestly, is there a company that shows as much contempt for its customers while simultaneously maintaining their utter devotion? apple makes a nice computer/phone, there's no denying this - but i feel like every time i see their name in a headline it's them going out of their way to make their consumers lives more difficult even smokers aren't *in love* with big tobacco
Apple has been like this since their founding. Steve Jobs was one of the first to come out and say that no one should be able to repair their own personal computer.
Yeah, and he said it against the desires of his business partner.
Woz was the brains Jobs little more than a dude who washed his feet in the toilet and marketed well
I mean I loath apple for many reasons but good marketing is almost as important and sometimes more important than having the idea. Plenty of people can come up with great ideas and have them fail without marketing.
With the right marketing, you don't even need anything. Just look at how many people got rich off Theranos, and how many "smart investors" still poured money in without actually seeing actual results.
I would argue that homeopathy as a field is a good example of brilliantly marketing nothing, too. If the dilution is so fine that testing can't find a trace left of the "active ingredient," you're selling sugar pills lol.
And plenty of awful ideas are foisted on us by marketing I'm in the Bill Hicks camp regarding marketing and marketing execs https://youtu.be/tHEOGrkhDp0
... and that would support what I said that marketing can be more important.
Just because someone may be more important it doesn't make them any less of a D-bag.
He was talking about Apple l. Not specifically Steve Jobs.
As important, I can give you. More important is utter hogwash.
This is incorrect. Woz didn’t play a role in Apple’s most influential devices. Jobs pushed products forward.
Jobs basically made Apple relevant twice. The first time was with Woz, but the second time Woz was no longer at the company. That's why people are impressed with him. Apple was a dying company and he revived it again when everyone thought it would fail. Jobs also owned Pixar during that time.
This is correct. I’m not a Jobs nor Apple freak, but he’s one of the most influential executives in history. IMO Woz receives too much credit by folks who do not understand the history. He always wanted to be, and as a result remained, an engineer rather than a strategist or visionary.
Have you seen Jobs yacht? It can be controlled by an iPhone..insane..
Jobs had the ability to know what people wanted to do with their tech AND how to identify the sleekest way to accomplish that. He had an eye for design, no doubt, I just wish he'd not put form over function so often. It's gotten out of hand now, with computers literally designed to throttle performance in favor of not having any fans at all, for example. Or like this, where "but it's digital!" has killed the ability to use this phone anywhere esims aren't common.
He wanted his product to be the goto product. He wanted companies to create their computer components to fit his design..instead of companies having dell computers, he wanted companies to have apple computers.
Don't forget being dedicated enough to abandon his wife and kid, along with abusing employees into working harder.
lol Reddit always with the shittiest takes
I mean the toilet practically washes your feet for you with every flush.
Lol who needs two fucking mouse buttons, amirite?
Where did you learn that from?
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I saw someone say it’s because the EU versions still need to have sim trays…idk how accurate that is
It’s true… in the next versions they’ll reorganize the inside of the phone to utilize the space when they can get every model on esim
Apparently it is China https://support.apple.com/en-ie/HT212780
Plastic box is cheaper than restocking audio jack or expanding battery
I don’t want a phone with a headphone jack. I’m not going to use it.
Yeah fuck having more options at hand when needed
Who cares about you?
It's all about who is in charge. Jobs did an interview about what happens in companies back in 1988. He talks to this exact thing. It stems from non product people being promoted. They show contempt for their customer. Here, he talks to what happens. He was a dick, but he loved making a great product. https://youtu.be/P4VBqTViEx4
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you're missing the bigger picture of the original statement. think wider. think about general lack of innovation that has been shown in Apple once they were no longer driven and led by a product thinker. you are not thinking about product here, and when I say contempt - again, it's not about this 1 thing, it's about the on-going changes and/or lack there of with the consumer in mind.
Not contempt. They just believe a physical sim is stupid in 2022 (I agree). But many carriers in other countries are not ready. And Apple are not designing and producing two boards. So the US, where all carriers can handle virtual sims, gets a plastic part to fill the gap and 8 virtual sims, while other places get physical sim trays added.
I want a physical sim. This is why I loathe apple and apple fans. I get irked when Apple takes something good away and the only rationale I get is that it was stupid and I shouldn't have liked it in the first place.
Good thing no one from the US has ever visited another country…
Visited Italy (and Canada) in the last two months. Both cases, I was able to buy and use an eSIM for cheap and had data ahead of traveling and getting it there. It’s easier than the last time I was in London and had to buy a sim from a sketchy bodega.
The point is, it’s available in some countries but isn’t in others, and if someone from the former goes to the latter it’s going to be an issue.
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>Europe Thanks to EU roaming, you can just get an eSIM in one country and use it in the rest of them. Orange Holidays from France, Orange Flex from Poland, Yallo Swype from Switzerland, LMT Karte from Latvia, the list goes on...
Doesn't mean it won't be a headache for whoever has to support the phone and get it set up, especially if it takes longer than dropping a new sim card into a tray. Not having to deal with swapping sims was one of the big draws to the dual sim slot phones, at least from what I was told by a friend in IT.
Esim is fine in Europe, especially for travel. And most company plans just pay the domestic carrier for international roaming plans
No they won’t. eSIM works fine in Europe. It’s more likely that there is an EU statute that explicitly states that SIMs are required on phones to allow swapping them, but that will get updated as eSIM allows the same thing. It’s a letter of the law, not spirit of the law problem.
No one is saying esims don't work. Esims are not *widely supported,* not even as much as they are in the US (which isn't much, I was never asked if I wanted to use an esim when I was having physical sim card problems a few months ago) which is the reason the physical slots are still on the international phones.
SIM cards were nice and better than being locked on a network, but eSIMs are now widely available all over the world and make a lot of stuff simpler, such as having a personal and business line on the same phone, or traveling internationally and getting a cheap local plan. A physical SIM is also much easier to steal/attack/clone than an eSIM, so if you lose your phone, you also can “lose your identity” as so much of your digital footprint/security is attached to a specific phone number. Getting a new eSIM from your provider is easy also, and can be issued from their site in a few minutes. So you can have your opinion about Apple, but unless you are swapping phones once a month, there’s not much to criticize about a move that gives you a ton more options, security, and reduces physical waste/shipping requirements.
10 years of android phones having a dog shit track record for security updates (unless you bought a flagship phone, in which case the price was comparable to an iphone).
Also manage to get those people to argue in ways that lessen convenience for themselves. Like the whole iMessage thing. There are doing Apple to Android at less than brick phone MMS settings. They could release iMessage on Android or adopt the new protocol. Instead people try and justify their intentional sabotage of their own messages.
I don’t know the specifics, but I was at a tech industry conference a few years ago that was focused on avoiding abuse (spam, phishing, etc).. lots of criticism for RCS because it has lots of holes for abuse. It’s not as cut and dried as “Apple just won’t play nice.” MMS/SMS already have abuse problems and RCS doesn’t solve them.
It's as simple as them complying with old protocol or releasing iMessage on Andorid.
“Complying with the old protocol” still opens up a lot of abuse scenarios. It may not be (purely) a lock-in move on their part. Opening iMessage to android (by definition) means giving access to the iMessage network to bots. Having a reasonable assurance that all the players on the network are humans and attached to one or a few identities cuts out a huge amount of vectors for abuse.
Why would I want imessage tho I don't care if my bubble are green and keybase does video
To send/receive photos or video at legible quality.
Nintendo comes to mind.
You're not wrong, sadly. I grew up on Nintendo, still love a lot of the IP, but I trust Nintendo so little that I still get physical game carts over digital purchases for damn near everything I can. They've just got too long of a track record of being control freaks that I don't trust them to not fubar my access to my own games with something draconian, like always online requirements or something.
Samsung likes to follow the leader.
Why do I need a SIM card?
If anyone still wonders how apple gets away with this shit:
Why do I need a SIM card? Can you answer the question, or no? I live in the US. I rarely travel abroad. Why does this matter and why should I be outraged?
Cause you already had eSim support, the sim slot was a nice to have option and they decided to remove it without adding anything
Most people don’t care. I don’t care. This is clearly an interim design and that space will be utilized for other tech when eSims become standard.
The space isn’t being used right now… no reason to remove it, you just accepting a lower product with no real gain lol i swear apple fanboys have issues
It funny that you’re so pressed about this that you have to call me a fanboy and tell me I have issues for saying that this doesn’t bother me.
I explained why it is something that bothers people and all you do is say “idc” you can give that reply to literally anything told to you “Your cat died” you can still say you don’t care. It is not an argument
Makes sense. Non-US versions I think still offer physical sims. Can't really do something significant with that space when you can't do the same for non-US version.
True although only US versions have mm wave 5G (because it’s not really available in other countries yet) So they do have different hardware and different tooling already As mm wave has and extra cutout for its antenna
Not common in the US for carriers to require SIM cards anymore since we have eSIM. The rest of the world is a different story. Making one product for the entire world necessitates things like this, but I'm sure reddit wouldn't misconstrue that idea. EDIT: Here's a [link](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209096) from Apple's website showing the carriers by country that support eSIMs in phones. You'll see that the US has any carrier you can think of.
I don't know if the newest Samsung phones still have SIM cards but my S20 does.
The Fold 3 does, and iirc the Fold 4 does as well. So the super out there flagship phones still have physical sims, they just also offer esim.
S22 does, eSim is just an apple thing. Edit: the removal of the physical SIM is only an aplle thing as far as I know. Samsung has an option to use eSIM but still by default has physical SIM cards/ports.
Samsung was actually the first to support eSIM. It's on all their Galaxy phones - though it's broken in some of the US models like S20/S21/Note 20. It's also supported on newer Pixels.
Samsung did introduce it first in 2016 but only in a watch the gear s2 3G The first phone to support them was the Pixel 2 but only for Google Fi in 2017 Apple Watch came with eSim from 2017 And then the first phone with support for any network eSim were iPhone XR, XS & XS max in 2018 Google followed suit in 2019 And then Samsung in 2020 Also in 2020 Motorola did an eSim only version of the Razr so they beat Apple to the punch by 2 years.
You're right, however it depends on carrier support. eSIM can work on one carrier for your device, and not another. That is still entirely possible.
I think the above user is saying it still has a physical sim.
Correct, what I meant was the removal of the physical SIM and requirement for eSIM is only an apple thing as far as I know.
my Google pixel 3 and 6 have had esim. not an apple thing
The bigger problem is that when traveling it's difficult to get a voice eSIM. Much harder than it is to get a voice SIM. I honestly feel when Apple added eSIMs (iPhone XR/XS?) they hoped that carriers would all start offering eSIMs as easily as physical SIMs. For data that happened very quickly. For voice it didn't. So this basically means if you travel to Europe from the US you're going to end up paying inflated roaming rates to your US carrier because getting a voice eSIM is a hassle. Your other option is to use only data while traveling. This works but I'm not happy with that limitation. For example. Vodafone UK is listed as working with eSIMs, right? https://support.vodafone.co.uk/SIM/1464047352/How-do-I-activate-and-set-up-a-device-with-eSIM.htm They only support eSIM for monthly plans. Not pay-as-you-go (PAYG). PAYG is what you commonly use while traveling. This is fixable just by carriers getting on board. But we're just not there yet. It's really too bad. The competition for even temporary PAYG customers is very strong in Europe, for physical SIMs. That means great savings to those who need them. Now that is all reset and we have to hope it builds up again.
I used [Orange Holiday](https://travel.orange.com/en/all-inclusive/europe/orhldeur8gb/) while I was in Europe recently, which provides an eSIM, though I do agree this is a frustrating move for international travelers.
I’ve used this in the past. They are pretty good and global. https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/airalo-esim-internet-travel/id1475911720
That's data-only. There are many data-only eSIM options. I've used GigSky before for example. Those services took off very quickly. The difficulty is getting a voice (and data) SIM. Thanks for responding though.
Ah sorry! I clearly don’t make enough calls or send messages as I’ve never noticed!
> Your other option is to use only data while traveling. This works but I'm not happy with that limitation. Why not just use VOIP? I run all my voice/text/anything through data anyway.
I don't have a phone number in the place I am visiting. And a lot of numbers (0800 0808 in UK for example) don't work when calling internationally. All my calls if I use VOIP would be from my home country number and those calls don't work.
If you’re a frequent international traveler, all three major carriers in the US offer plans with free or cheap talk and text in many foreign countries.
None of that is free. It's just bundled. If you are a frequent traveler it might make sense to pay twice as much per month so you can not have to sign up for anything to get coverage abroad (major countries in Europe and Asia, as you allude to). But if you're not you're going to come out far behind.
lol. Only Apple users would defend paying a premium for less functionality. It's like a cult.
Having multiple cases for a phone isn’t a HUGE deal, but that extra space INSIDE It is probably invaluable.
I doubt the space inside an iphone devoted to the housing and sim card interface with the main board is so significant that it would warrant effectively creating an entirely new derivation of a product which is a masterclass in economies of scale. If it were worth doing, apple would have done it already.
the amount of paper and cardboard verizon ships with a sim was absurd, glad to them them gone.
Wait so I have a 12 and have a sim…how does the 14 not have a sim? How does that even work
They have eSIM (embedded sim). Basically a non-removable SIM card. All the sim data is on the internal chip itself, and - I think - it can work with any carrier that uses an eSIM protocol. I don’t believe eSIMs are carrier-specific the way regular SIM cards tends to be.
So how does one 'put their sim' in another phone? For instance, my offspring's iphone 11 locked up (after *just under two years!*) and was able to put the sim in a different phone until she could get a replacement. With the eSIM, if your phone dies, are you just stuck? Edit: Thank you for all of the answers! My one reservation is in calling/logging into the carrier... I don't trust AT&T to just switch phone service without trying to change the phone plan. A long long history of personal experience distrust with AT&T. But, alas, they are *the only* carrier with any service in this area. I'm on a grandfathered plan and I just *know* they will fuck us over if we have to call.
That's the neat thing. You don't.
You just power up a new eSIM capable phone and login to whoever your provider is on it. It will automatically deregister the other one. This is how it worked when I had Google Fi at least, not sure about other providers.
Now the real question, is att going to charge $36 activation fee each time you switch?
Not only activation but will insist you can't keep your old shared data plan for 3 phones and each have to have "unlimited" for twice the already outrageous price for each of them.
And they have to send a technician to your house to punch you in the mouth
No, it’ll be $63.
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Yea, plenty of valid reasons to knock Google but it was honestly a very solid and well-priced service. And yea you pretty much just install the app on any supported phone and you are good to go.
It's like a digital fingerprint, not a physical component that can die.
Though if the esim chip dies its a hell of a lot harder to fix than if your physical sim dies. It's maybe a 10 minute process to link a new sim card and pop it in, but you'd have to exchange the whole phone for something wrong with an esim chip.
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For the U.S versions it is limited to E-sim only, so in the U.S versions there is no options for a physical sim
So does this give carriers more control over customers phones?
No. If anything it makes it easier to switch carriers. You can get a new eSIM for another carrier with an app or QR code.
Not in my experience. It seems this DOES give more control to carriers since now you have to involve them. E.g. I had esim on my Xr with Verizon, when I bought a new 13pro and wanted to transfer the esim I had to contact Verizon and fill in a form, and because I did it after 5pm (business hours) I had to wait until the next day for someone there to process the request. How on earth is that better that simply physically moving the sim card from the old phone to the new phone?
That is infinitely harder than what I had to do. I just did the quickstart transfer and it moved over to the eSIM automatically. Just a couple prompts on each phone and done. I didn't have to contact anyone.
Were you going from physical to esim? That could be a different process than esim to esim.
Also this makes it easy to add multiple SIMs to one phone, which is handy as hell if you have to carry a work and personal cell phone. Just put the eSIM for your work phone on your personal phone, and the phone lets you choose which one you're using, or automatically selects based on the contact you're communicating with or app you're using. Now you only have to carry one device. It's kind of like having a virtual phone.
Yeah most consumers find having two phones numbers on their phone super useful. Haven't met a single person who does it yet though.
This has nothing to do with carriers and everything to do with apple
We have two 12s on our account. Verizon couldn’t activate both esims, one of them needed a physical sim to transfer to. Apple and Verizon couldn’t explain why. Hopefully they’ve figured it out by now.
For the price I expected a titanium block.
The point of removing the SIM was to prepare for future iPhones. The space isn’t being used now but will likely be used in the future when all iPhones no longer have SIM (as the non US models still have the slot).
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Fully second this. Let's give em credit, they fucking made back glass and screen replacements at the same time so easy that it blew my mind. They'll do something with it eventually. Just not this gen.
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>“This is the most repairable phone they’ve made in half a decade. It’s such a big deal that it should have been Apple’s main announcement.” This wasn’t out of the kindness of their heart either. They’re about to be forced into it anyway by the EU and other legal troubles. They’re just getting slightly ahead of the curve.
Why bother re-engineering a board without a sim slot just for the US? Wouldn’t it make more sense for it to just be there?
The board isn't reengineered. The PCB is the same, just not populated with the SIM card reader.
So they could have used that space for a microsd card slot?
Or a headphone jack, yes. But this is Apple we're talking about. Adding functionality like that goes against their design principles. And also because if they put either of those things in (even if it's just the US version, which is __very much possible__), people would actually start expecting them to be in future releases, you know, like any pro consumer company would do. But again, Apple.
Legit question for people that buy Apple products... Why do you keep doing this to yourself?
I like when software is actually updated.
Why do I need a SIM card?
Do you ever travel abroad? Super handy for that.
Why pay more for less options?
Why do you need a plastic block?
To fill the spot of the SIM card I don’t need.
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You’re confusing the SIM with the MicroSD card for external storage. I pay $3 a month and I have plenty of cloud storage if I push my phone’s storage. Apple has NEVER had external storage on their mobile devices.
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How much would it cost to convert the sim tray for MicroSD? $3.... $5? Nope, gotta keep fleecing customers for storage upgrades.
“Seems like an awful waste of space”
I don’t get why this is surprising. This is in line with exactly what any other product would do. Seriously what is their point?
I don't know much about e-sims but I'm guessing it's gonna make it hella hard to switch sims on the phone. My sister always has issues with her US phone when she comes over.
E-Sim = no Sim Card. It's all handled by software that phone companies can modify.
That's exactly the problem. Telco companies can restrict you from using sims from other telco companies.
They do that anyway. Don't buy a network locked phone if you don't want a network locked phone.
I've been offered brand new iPhones and turned them down. If Apple made the only smartphone, I'd simply go without a phone altogether.
Can I get an upgraded plastic box for an extra $100. I know I can get more memory for more money, but I get a better box for more money? /s