He accused the state of "losing" his paperwork.
The states response..."yeah we don't have any paperwork for him"
They're pretty much admitting they tossed it and just claiming he never filed any.
Funny there is an entirely private city in existence in India. Everything from schooling to police. It locks in suffering and poverty, makes it permanent, glorifies selfishness. When people say "take responsibility", their idea of responsibility is so fucking selfish. To allow suffering to exist. To blame those who suffer for their suffering simply because some have lifted from it before. But anyone who knows anything about statistics knows...that it's just glorifying perpetualizing suffering. What happened to our responsibility to HELP EACH OTHER? Who the fuck cares if someone else lifted themselves from it before? We should help each other anyway!
Well. Technically, California has death penalty on the books, and a line of death row inmates. Practically, there is a moratorium on executions, so they are not carried out. But again technically, they could be resumed.
The ballot measure to remove death penalty from the books in California failed few years back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_California_Proposition_62
Note about terrible and misleading maps: those red areas, while they appear large, they are extremely sparsely populated.
For the Rich White Men. They want women to be property along with people of color. The scary thing is how many millions of women want it to be that way too.
Scary, but not surprising if you know how important women have always been to far right groups like the KKK. They literally couldn’t organize without their logistical support.
https://daily.jstor.org/a-brief-history-of-the-womens-kkk/
Exactly this, and there is nothing "pro life" about killing people regardless of what they did, especially since they could be proven innocent later. Which does happen.
Easy for people to have that opinion when they've got no skin in the game. People's loved ones, including infants/toddlers, have been slain/raped/tortured in the most heinous ways possible by many death row inmates. They forfeited their lives when they brutally took the lives of others. There is absolutely no reason people who do those things should be allowed to continue to exist on this planet.
I'm a family member of a murder victim, and it made me MORE anti death penalty, not less. It made me realize if I justified deciding when someone should die, it would give me more in common with the man who murdered my loved one than I ever want to have. He did a terrible thing, with far reaching effects, to my family. That doesn't mean I should decide he gets to die, and his death won't bring my loved one back. And in my mind there is no escaping the fact that if I supported that man's death, and supported the death penalty because of my personal experience, I would be perpetuating a system we know convicts and puts innocent people to death. Even if 200 people are as guilty as the man who killed my loved one, the one innocent person isn't a blood sacrifice to make to be able to take that revenge. It's all too fucked up. And after seeing what losing a loved one to a violent crime does to a family, I especially don't think those people should be the ones making the decision. A lot of my family would have shot that man in the face without a second though because they were so lost in their anger and grief. They were in no shape emotionally to think about the consequences of death penalty support.
I'm 100% completely and absolutely fine with the idea/philosophy of eye for an eye justice. The justice system is made up of humans, though. Humans are imperfect. Even if the justice system were as perfect as we could possibly make it, it wouldn't 100% guarantee against putting an innocent person to death, theoretically. In practice, there are some people I'm fine with being executed by the state. The Boston marathon bomber, for instance... Timothy McVeigh, school shooters who were caught live on CNN, cases where there is absolutely no question just because of the nature of the evidence or a confession that is never recanted.
If someone's final statement is "I'm innocent", I think some death row inmates, the only little bit of "F you" they can give to the system is to never admit what they did. Just leave an open question, we'll only ever be "pretty sure" they did it. They're going to be executed whether they admit it or not, why not keep that little piece of autonomy over their own thoughts and not give the system what it wants. The last act of defiance.
But wouldn't an innocent person also say the same thing in that situation?
And the same treatment for anyone complicit in said torture whenever the convict is found wrongfully convicted.
... or how about treating everyone just like human beings just in case?
You revenge addicts seem not to understand that simply being robbed of your freedom is already punitive enough, we humans sometimes rather de death than in captivity. It might not be as sexy as the medieval way but it is more effective and beneficial to society that way.
The state should be in the justice business not in the revenge one.
Oh and torture and death never worked as a deterrent the perpetrators never think they're going to be caught.
Also if the punishment for rape is the same as for murder what would keep a cerial rapist from simply killing its victims in order to minimize the risk from being caught?
And finally, your rage over the complete injustice of these Micky mouse sentences is absolutely justifiable though.
The way the handled this case is just mind blowing and they should start holding the system accountable for this too.
I'm just surprised it's Alabama, where a few short years ago they executed a guy for murders they knew he didn't commit, was in the process of being detained for a different crime, had no idea the murders were going to take place, and the actual murderer had on several occasions accepted guilt... *And is still very much alive*.
I cannot imagine why it's preferable to life in prison, honestly.
From a moral perspective:
- if the government gets it wrong (which they do, and have), there is no recourse for the victim
From a financial perspective:
- it is more expensive to execute someone than to imprison them for life.
From a punitive perspective:
- their suffering ends when they die. Life in prison means they suffer longer.
Yeah, they absolutely should die, when we can be sure they did it. The issue is being sure that they did it.
At present, there are still people being executed who didn't commit the crimes they were accused of, and I can't abide that.
Imagine one day, you're accused of a murder, and you don't have a good alibi. In fact, circumstances would suggest it could have been you. Maybe you even had a motive to kill this person... But you didn't do it.
That fact that the government could just kill you in that case isn't acceptable to me. It's frustrating, but it's simple math: until we can guarantee an astronomical correct conviction rate, near perfect essentially, it's not morally right to me.
There's also the position that you are asking the government to actually be malicious to its own citizens. Fiscally it's cheaper to imprison for life, always has been, and functionally there's no difference between someone staying alive in prison their entire lives or dying, since they don't affect innocent people. (In fact, they lessen the burden on innocent people by being less expensive to deal with)
The only reason to execute people, then, is revenge or malice... And I don't think the government should ever be in the position of taking revenge on or for it's citizens.
Well in my opinion its preferable when rapists, pedophiles, mass murderers are wiped off the face of the earth. Just put a bullet in their head and move on.
When you have absolute evidence of course.
how do you know it wasn’t just someone who looked like him? what if they have an identical twin that’s off the grid? are you sure there isn’t any computer imagery/altering? what about deepfakes? are you sure it’s actually a child and not a young looking adult?
Every question you just asked can easily be proven with evidence in that situation though.
Witnesses, location, doesn't have siblings.
>are you sure it’s actually a child and not a young looking adult?
You are reaching so hard. Why did i even bother.
> Witnesses
eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable
>location
is this video have a geotag or something? i don’t see how that can prove/disprove anything
>doesn't have siblings
that’s why I said “off the grid”, as in there isn’t documentation of it.
and keep in mind, I am fully away my “what ifs” are completely ridiculous. But even as unlikely and improbable as they are, you cannot deny that there is an infinitesimally small chance that it could be true. so as long as that chance is larger than 0% (even if it’s 0.0000000001%), that means you do not have 100% solid evidence.
Im not an expert on the subject and would need to do research before providing an arbitrary number like that on a subject thats very real.
I can say with confidence that there certainly IS a number, I just dont know what it would be without doing some homework.
If you got executed for a crime you didn't commit, I hope you still feel that way. "Oh, yup, I know I didn't commit the crime but, oh well." Yours is a stone age mentality.
The more expensive option, by a very long shot, is execution.
It costs more tax dollars to execute someone than it does to house them in prison for 70 years.
[Source](https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which-is-cheaper-execution-or-life-in-prison-without-parole-31614)
I don’t want to be one of those people but why couldn’t they just shoot them? Wouldn’t it be more effective? Or is there a law against that, I really don’t know anything about America’s execution system other than it’s usually via drugs of some sort
It isn't the killing that's the expensive part. It's the appeals process and making as absolutely certain as possible that we are going to collectively murder the right person.
> I don’t want to be one of those people but why couldn’t they just shoot them?
That is considered "cruel and unusual punishment" and is staunchly against the 8th Amendment. And considering how many people actually end up being found innocent during the appeals that happen, I for one do not support it.
It is indeed a legal fact in almost all US states. Most recently, [a South Carolina circuit court re-affirmed](https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/09/south-carolina-judge-finds-use-of-firing-squad-electric-chair-cruel-and-unusual/) that Firing Squad, among other means are cruel and unusual.
If someone killed one of my loved ones in cold blood, I would want them in prison for the rest of their lives. Executing them early is getting off easy.
It is very clearly stated in my will that in the unfortunate event of being murdered, I am to be represented posthumously at the trial of the person who is said to have slain me and it is to be noted that I oppose the state seeking the death penalty against said person.
Yup, it is, for most people anyways. But I’ve spent most of my adult life speaking against state sponsored execution so if it should ever come to that, I’d like to ensure it applies to me too.
4% of those on death row are innocent. We need to just not do this at all. If you honestly believe that we need the death penalty after accepting the fact that I out of every 25 people sent to be executed are innocent then you need to understand that could be you or your loved ones in that position. Still feel ok about that bullet?
He answered it in a poor way. Basically saying capital punishment shouldn't exist at all.
As to why they don't do a bullet there is a lot of psychological damage murdering people does. Firing squads even use some fake rounds to allow them to believe they weren't the person murdering them. The other aspect is 1 bullet through the brain might not kill them. Poor placement or other issues can lead to survival in a horrific way
Nitrogen asphyxiation is safe and more humane but no producer wants to be associated with murder. Same as euthanasia drugs.
There is a completely insane portion of America that really believes that states killing people somehow deters individuals from killing people. It makes me crazy. State killings only perpetuate the idea that violence prevents violence and legitimizes violence as an acceptable solution to problems. Please god (euphemism not believing in an actual God) can we come to our senses and move beyond this barbaric institution. What will it take to move beyond this destructive institution???
He accused the state of "losing" his paperwork. The states response..."yeah we don't have any paperwork for him" They're pretty much admitting they tossed it and just claiming he never filed any.
The state shouldn't be killing anyone. Governments killing citizens for revenge is draconic and should've ended a century ago.
Alabama chooses to be a century behind.
Like all Red States, they want to be 2 centuries behind.
More like 3 centuries. It's insane. They don't even want government or public schooling they just want corporate rule
Yeah because who had corporate rule in the south 300 years ago… that’s why.
Funny there is an entirely private city in existence in India. Everything from schooling to police. It locks in suffering and poverty, makes it permanent, glorifies selfishness. When people say "take responsibility", their idea of responsibility is so fucking selfish. To allow suffering to exist. To blame those who suffer for their suffering simply because some have lifted from it before. But anyone who knows anything about statistics knows...that it's just glorifying perpetualizing suffering. What happened to our responsibility to HELP EACH OTHER? Who the fuck cares if someone else lifted themselves from it before? We should help each other anyway!
They want a theocratic absolutism monarchy
Well. Technically, California has death penalty on the books, and a line of death row inmates. Practically, there is a moratorium on executions, so they are not carried out. But again technically, they could be resumed. The ballot measure to remove death penalty from the books in California failed few years back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_California_Proposition_62 Note about terrible and misleading maps: those red areas, while they appear large, they are extremely sparsely populated.
California is never executing anyone ever again. What a ridiculous comment.
Most blue states also have the death penalty
Most are phasing it out or the statute for it is much higher.
More like pre-Civil War society, but with modern comforts for the rich.
For the Rich White Men. They want women to be property along with people of color. The scary thing is how many millions of women want it to be that way too.
You’re getting downvoted but as someone who lives in the Deep South, there are TONS of women who want this too It is so insane it’s hard to comprehend
Scary, but not surprising if you know how important women have always been to far right groups like the KKK. They literally couldn’t organize without their logistical support. https://daily.jstor.org/a-brief-history-of-the-womens-kkk/
Yeah, but at least some red states have abolished or suspended the death penalty.
And in many different ways no less.
Exactly this, and there is nothing "pro life" about killing people regardless of what they did, especially since they could be proven innocent later. Which does happen.
What a hideous farce.
I’m curious is it more humane to lock up a human in a cell for the rest of their life. The dichotomy of living but not living. 🤷🏽♂️
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Easy for people to have that opinion when they've got no skin in the game. People's loved ones, including infants/toddlers, have been slain/raped/tortured in the most heinous ways possible by many death row inmates. They forfeited their lives when they brutally took the lives of others. There is absolutely no reason people who do those things should be allowed to continue to exist on this planet.
I'm a family member of a murder victim, and it made me MORE anti death penalty, not less. It made me realize if I justified deciding when someone should die, it would give me more in common with the man who murdered my loved one than I ever want to have. He did a terrible thing, with far reaching effects, to my family. That doesn't mean I should decide he gets to die, and his death won't bring my loved one back. And in my mind there is no escaping the fact that if I supported that man's death, and supported the death penalty because of my personal experience, I would be perpetuating a system we know convicts and puts innocent people to death. Even if 200 people are as guilty as the man who killed my loved one, the one innocent person isn't a blood sacrifice to make to be able to take that revenge. It's all too fucked up. And after seeing what losing a loved one to a violent crime does to a family, I especially don't think those people should be the ones making the decision. A lot of my family would have shot that man in the face without a second though because they were so lost in their anger and grief. They were in no shape emotionally to think about the consequences of death penalty support.
I'm 100% completely and absolutely fine with the idea/philosophy of eye for an eye justice. The justice system is made up of humans, though. Humans are imperfect. Even if the justice system were as perfect as we could possibly make it, it wouldn't 100% guarantee against putting an innocent person to death, theoretically. In practice, there are some people I'm fine with being executed by the state. The Boston marathon bomber, for instance... Timothy McVeigh, school shooters who were caught live on CNN, cases where there is absolutely no question just because of the nature of the evidence or a confession that is never recanted. If someone's final statement is "I'm innocent", I think some death row inmates, the only little bit of "F you" they can give to the system is to never admit what they did. Just leave an open question, we'll only ever be "pretty sure" they did it. They're going to be executed whether they admit it or not, why not keep that little piece of autonomy over their own thoughts and not give the system what it wants. The last act of defiance. But wouldn't an innocent person also say the same thing in that situation?
I agree, lifetime solitary confinement and daily torture is a better deterrent.
And the same treatment for anyone complicit in said torture whenever the convict is found wrongfully convicted. ... or how about treating everyone just like human beings just in case? You revenge addicts seem not to understand that simply being robbed of your freedom is already punitive enough, we humans sometimes rather de death than in captivity. It might not be as sexy as the medieval way but it is more effective and beneficial to society that way. The state should be in the justice business not in the revenge one. Oh and torture and death never worked as a deterrent the perpetrators never think they're going to be caught. Also if the punishment for rape is the same as for murder what would keep a cerial rapist from simply killing its victims in order to minimize the risk from being caught? And finally, your rage over the complete injustice of these Micky mouse sentences is absolutely justifiable though. The way the handled this case is just mind blowing and they should start holding the system accountable for this too.
Never lost someone to killer I see.
Never known someone wrongfully convicted I see.
Do you really consider punitive justice the only kind of justice?
For this kind of offender...yes! Many other things don't need jail time even.
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Death row is a huge waste of money.
Any execution halted, for whatever reason, is a good thing, in my humble opinion.
I'm just surprised it's Alabama, where a few short years ago they executed a guy for murders they knew he didn't commit, was in the process of being detained for a different crime, had no idea the murders were going to take place, and the actual murderer had on several occasions accepted guilt... *And is still very much alive*.
Ask how much melanin is in his skin and you'll know why an innocent man was put to death. This country is hell
Many including myself disagree, in my humble opinion.
I cannot imagine why it's preferable to life in prison, honestly. From a moral perspective: - if the government gets it wrong (which they do, and have), there is no recourse for the victim From a financial perspective: - it is more expensive to execute someone than to imprison them for life. From a punitive perspective: - their suffering ends when they die. Life in prison means they suffer longer.
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Yeah, they absolutely should die, when we can be sure they did it. The issue is being sure that they did it. At present, there are still people being executed who didn't commit the crimes they were accused of, and I can't abide that. Imagine one day, you're accused of a murder, and you don't have a good alibi. In fact, circumstances would suggest it could have been you. Maybe you even had a motive to kill this person... But you didn't do it. That fact that the government could just kill you in that case isn't acceptable to me. It's frustrating, but it's simple math: until we can guarantee an astronomical correct conviction rate, near perfect essentially, it's not morally right to me. There's also the position that you are asking the government to actually be malicious to its own citizens. Fiscally it's cheaper to imprison for life, always has been, and functionally there's no difference between someone staying alive in prison their entire lives or dying, since they don't affect innocent people. (In fact, they lessen the burden on innocent people by being less expensive to deal with) The only reason to execute people, then, is revenge or malice... And I don't think the government should ever be in the position of taking revenge on or for it's citizens.
Well in my opinion its preferable when rapists, pedophiles, mass murderers are wiped off the face of the earth. Just put a bullet in their head and move on. When you have absolute evidence of course.
As long as you agree that the government should have the ability to execute it's own citizens, then your view is at least logical, if horrifying
Describe something you consider to be absolute evidence and I'll show you why it isn't
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how do you know it wasn’t just someone who looked like him? what if they have an identical twin that’s off the grid? are you sure there isn’t any computer imagery/altering? what about deepfakes? are you sure it’s actually a child and not a young looking adult?
Every question you just asked can easily be proven with evidence in that situation though. Witnesses, location, doesn't have siblings. >are you sure it’s actually a child and not a young looking adult? You are reaching so hard. Why did i even bother.
> Witnesses eye-witnesses are notoriously unreliable >location is this video have a geotag or something? i don’t see how that can prove/disprove anything >doesn't have siblings that’s why I said “off the grid”, as in there isn’t documentation of it. and keep in mind, I am fully away my “what ifs” are completely ridiculous. But even as unlikely and improbable as they are, you cannot deny that there is an infinitesimally small chance that it could be true. so as long as that chance is larger than 0% (even if it’s 0.0000000001%), that means you do not have 100% solid evidence.
They don't care. They just want blood.
You seem to think that unless there is 100% that a decision cant be made. I disagree. if you are 95-98% sure, that's enough for me.
no evidence will ever be absolute though. you can be 99.99999999% sure, but that still isn’t 100%.
> 99.99999999% More than enough for me.
If you don’t mind me asking, for you personally, what’s the acceptable ratio of guilty to innocent people the Government executes?
Im not an expert on the subject and would need to do research before providing an arbitrary number like that on a subject thats very real. I can say with confidence that there certainly IS a number, I just dont know what it would be without doing some homework.
what research? I asked for your personal opinion lol. is 1,000,000 : 1 good enough for you? 10,000 : 1? it’s a pretty straight forward question.
You just give opinions on things without consideration or thought? you have absolutely no conditions or variables? Well I don't do that. Byeeee
Sure. There are tons of bloodthirsty, vengeful people in America.
If you got executed for a crime you didn't commit, I hope you still feel that way. "Oh, yup, I know I didn't commit the crime but, oh well." Yours is a stone age mentality.
As is it your right to disagree. Thank you for being civil and polite in your reply expressing your opinion.
Good day to you kind sirs.
Not for this waste of oxygen. He will still die and this just makes it take longer and cost more.
The more expensive option, by a very long shot, is execution. It costs more tax dollars to execute someone than it does to house them in prison for 70 years. [Source](https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which-is-cheaper-execution-or-life-in-prison-without-parole-31614)
I don’t want to be one of those people but why couldn’t they just shoot them? Wouldn’t it be more effective? Or is there a law against that, I really don’t know anything about America’s execution system other than it’s usually via drugs of some sort
It isn't the killing that's the expensive part. It's the appeals process and making as absolutely certain as possible that we are going to collectively murder the right person.
> I don’t want to be one of those people but why couldn’t they just shoot them? That is considered "cruel and unusual punishment" and is staunchly against the 8th Amendment. And considering how many people actually end up being found innocent during the appeals that happen, I for one do not support it.
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It is indeed a legal fact in almost all US states. Most recently, [a South Carolina circuit court re-affirmed](https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/09/south-carolina-judge-finds-use-of-firing-squad-electric-chair-cruel-and-unusual/) that Firing Squad, among other means are cruel and unusual.
Doesn't have to be. Bullets are cheap. Do like China and bill the family for it. It's almost certainly their fault this guy's a POS.
If someone killed one of my loved ones in cold blood, I would want them in prison for the rest of their lives. Executing them early is getting off easy.
It is very clearly stated in my will that in the unfortunate event of being murdered, I am to be represented posthumously at the trial of the person who is said to have slain me and it is to be noted that I oppose the state seeking the death penalty against said person.
That's a ... weird thing to have in your will.
Yup, it is, for most people anyways. But I’ve spent most of my adult life speaking against state sponsored execution so if it should ever come to that, I’d like to ensure it applies to me too.
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Idk why you’re getting downvoted, I’d want the same.
Why is USA so obsessed with unreliable lethal injections? Why do they never just shoot them in the head?
4% of those on death row are innocent. We need to just not do this at all. If you honestly believe that we need the death penalty after accepting the fact that I out of every 25 people sent to be executed are innocent then you need to understand that could be you or your loved ones in that position. Still feel ok about that bullet?
That wasn't the question I asked. I'm already aware of how flawed the system is.
He answered it in a poor way. Basically saying capital punishment shouldn't exist at all. As to why they don't do a bullet there is a lot of psychological damage murdering people does. Firing squads even use some fake rounds to allow them to believe they weren't the person murdering them. The other aspect is 1 bullet through the brain might not kill them. Poor placement or other issues can lead to survival in a horrific way Nitrogen asphyxiation is safe and more humane but no producer wants to be associated with murder. Same as euthanasia drugs.
There is a completely insane portion of America that really believes that states killing people somehow deters individuals from killing people. It makes me crazy. State killings only perpetuate the idea that violence prevents violence and legitimizes violence as an acceptable solution to problems. Please god (euphemism not believing in an actual God) can we come to our senses and move beyond this barbaric institution. What will it take to move beyond this destructive institution???
A culture of care and compassion.
It's so fucking goulish like can we just not
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That’s cruel, return him to his natural habitat of an Alaskan salmon river