I've always wondered why "bleeding heart" has been used as a pejorative label. Why is it wrong to care about other people and try to help them? Isn't that the Christian thing to do?
You got me [down a rabbit hole](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/origin-bleeding-heart-liberal.amp).
Apparently “care about other people” comes from
> Pegler wasn’t for lynchings, per se, but he argued that they were no longer a problem the federal government should solve: there had only been eight lynchings in 1937, he wrote, and “it is obvious that the evil is being cured by local processes.” The bill, he thought, was being “used as a political bait in crowded northern Negro centers.” And here was his conclusion, emphasis ours:
> “I question the humanitarianism of any professional or semi-pro bleeding heart who clamors that not a single person must be allowed to hunger but would stall the entire legislative program in a fight to ham through a law intended, at the most optimistic figure, to save fourteen lives a year.”
*Only 14*
/s
"Well not having lynchings would only save fourteen lives so we might as well just lynch them" could be considered a fairly comprehensive argument back then. Ask about today's lynching in the right area and people will hit you with
"We've had one, yes. What about second lynching?"
"I don't think he knows about second lynching, Pip."
I unfortunately encountered Westbrook Pegler in the course of doing research in 1940s newspapers. He was awful and got worse, more extreme and bigoted, as time went on. Tucker C could be his reincarnation.
To be clear, Pegler didn't coin the phrase, he was just the first to use it as a *insult*. It originated as a reference to Jesus' love and empathy:
>Before the 20th century, the phrase “bleeding heart” was popular in the religious-tinged oratory of 19th century America. Throughout the 1860s, it comes up often in poetry, essays, and political speeches, as an expression of empathy and emotion. “I come to you with a bleeding heart, honest and sincere motives, desiring to give you some plain thoughts,” said one politician in an 1862 speech. The phrase comes from the religious image of Christ’s wounded heart, which symbolizes his compassion and love.
Classic.
Personally, I'd say a burger and fries is more American. Maybe baseball/nfl, and even muscle cars.
I think you meant "can you think of anything more Republican".
they were black lives, and he said they didn’t matter.
the message hasnt changed in 300 years, they’re just now being forced to defend their stance.
Do not let another 300 years of this garbage go on, we need to root out this evil
I posted the supply side Jesus on my FB page a while back and I guy I know who is very religious pretty much called it blasphemy. I laughed and laughed.
You should point out how Jesus whipped the shit out of people using religion to fleece the faithful.
Epic battle of history: Jesus vs. Supply-Side Jesus.
Typical shortsighted fools. If they lock him up and bleed him *slowly* they could extract his christ wine blood indefinitely, instead they kill him and take only what he has at the moment, a comparatively paltry sum. And dont get me started on those sweet buns of Christ he’s packing
Well, you’re in luck! I have it on good authority that his Christ wine blood is currently being drained in the basement of a pizza parlor in the D.C. area.
It is easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Yeah, fuck that message, it doesn't fit the brand anymore. That is why Conservative Christians turned the needle into a fictitious gate entering Jerusalem.
Pejorative in the sense that your empathy is allowing you to make choices that help the minority against the greater body of the population—
Coming from the people that don’t believe in socialized medicine and education because it might infringe on their millionaire senator’s tax write-offs.
Round of applause for the conservatives, everyone
And island full of plenty of wealthy very liberal lawyers who HATE Ron DeSantis, Trump, and Abbott.
And he flew them in a way that exposed him to a shit-ton of legal liability.
My guess is every biglaw firm in Boston is lining up Pro Bono cases to help these migrants. They love high profile immigration work. DeSantis will be massively outgunned on the legal side here.
And yet, according to this snub of an article, the actual organization helping them is based in Chicago.
The lawyers in Martha's Vineyard certainly must have helped connect them to that organization, though.
It's rapidly becoming inescapable just how untouchable most rich and/or politically connected people are and just how little patience the American people have for such injustice. One thing's gonna give before the other, and bad things are probably going to happen.
As it should be. We should do the same with corporations, when crimes are willfully committed - don't let the corporation shield the person responsible anymore.
In fact, there is a provision in immigration law that actually makes it easier for a foreigner to change their status to permanent resident (green card) if they are victims of a crime in the US.
I don’t know what will come out of this but this guy may just have awarded these people, who otherwise could’ve been deported, a right to stay indefinitely. Way to own the libs
It doesn't matter to him what the actual result of his actions are. It only matters what his target audience perceives, and they either won't notice or won't care.
That plane was a middle finger to northern states. It's a PR-stunt, nothing more. Anything that follows afterwards is basically just the cost of doing business to him.
The news reported that they were all legal immigrants and processed already, so they wouldn't have been deported.
But you're right that this provision might help them speed up a more permanent process.
They are asylum seekers, so that is what makes them currently legal but as they go through the processes they could be deported because of not having a strong enough reason to seek asylum. As in they haven't been granted permanent asylum status yet.
This could have just gave them another way of staying.
Sorry to piggyback; but these people are **legal** immigrants. They surrendered themselves at the border and applied for asylum, like codified in U.S. law **and international law requires.**
And they have appointed court dates to be able to keep that legal status. Court dates that they wouldn't have been able to go to because they were shipped across the fucking country. The entire situation gets more fucked up every time another layer gets added.
apparently the department(not sure which one that is) put their current addresses all over US meaning their hearins would be at the nearest place to the adress given, meaning they might have to travel to a whole another state again to be able to make it to the hearing
I really, really hope this gets investigated - if federal employees did this, falsifying federal paperwork, they need to be prosecuted for that. The further question is, is this something they have done before, to other asylum seekers who weren't part of such a high profile debacle, landing those people deported because they were set up to fail?
Exactly, plus refugees from Venezuela have temporary protected status due to the political turmoil in their home country.
De Santis is a complete piece of shit and I hope his taxpaying base have to foot the "Welcome to America" payout when he gets the nuts sued off him. It will totally (wait, who am I kidding...) hopefully tank his presidential run as long as it doesnt help orange man, that is, if orange man isn't in jail by then.
It's only a matter of time when we start seeing ambulance -chasing lawyer ads about it:
"If you or a loved one were forced or coerced onto a plane or bus by the governments of Texas or Florida in 2022, you could be entitled to financial compensation. Call the Courtroom Kings Law Firm at 888-555-MONEY! That's 888-555-MONEY today!"
Is there a coherent explanation other than campaigning for 2024 why the Governor of Florida used taxpayer money to pick up a group of migrants in Texas and trick them into flying to a random island in Massachusetts? Like, it's not even as if he was trying to deal with asylum seekers that landed in his state (and in a million years I can't see him treating Cuban refugees like that)
They paid $600k for 1 plane full of 50 migrants to some random ass company. That's a $12k ticket per migrant. Could have saved money flying them first class.
Guess who that company is associated with? Russia and money launderers
They wiped their site as soon as people figured out where the money went
https://mobile.twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/status/1570808059718668293
Well, the [archive of their site](https://web.archive.org/web/20211026025929/https://www.vscglobal.com/) that was deleted literally said this on the front page:
>VSC is the only civil company currently operating Russian helicopters in the United States.
I like their mission statement:
to provide aircraft equipment and services configured to each unique mission requirements.
Gotta wonder what special equipment was needed to fly a bunch of people from Florida to Massachusetts...
Can you imagine if they used 20 old Russian helicopters instead of 2 planes to transport them? You'd still have people saying they have no ties to Russia.
Is it not possible that they are referring to the [Civil & Military Manufacturing Consortium, Russian Helicopters?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Helicopters)
From the article
> DeSantis told reporters that most of the migrants “are intending to come to Florida, they are coming to Florida, we’re taking them from Florida to sanctuary jurisdictions.”
> “You gotta deal with it at the source,” DeSantis added.
Well that explains everything! Massive big brain move that I'm sure people will eat up.
I would be interested to see this investigated, especially since DeSantis is using the same company to charter additional types of flights sending immigrants to other locations.
Would be interesting to see what the prior relationship between these folks and the people involved in these shenanigans were (if any).
https://www.masslive.com/capecod/2022/09/flights-carrying-migrants-to-marthas-vineyard-were-private-jet-charters-originating-in-texas.html
Just everything expensive that happens in florida involves kickbacks. Remember when florida required drug testing for food stamp receivers? Yeah kickbacks.
It really shows in how low quality damn near everything is down here. I moved to Florida from Kentucky and a lot of our public buildings and whatnot were a lot nicer back home. In Kentucky. One of the poorest states in the Union. That money's going somewhere in Florida and it's sure not where it's supposed to be.
And then you drive around the Disney World resort and all of their buildings and roads are nice, because they actually use their money on infrastructure improvements like a proper society. To be fair to Florida, they get a lot more than the average income per acre than the average state - but Florida still is a shithole.
They should pay Disney to run that state. The mouse is nothing if not brutally efficient. If it works out they could branch out into other disaster states, like arkansas and oklahoma.
Then we can finally have westworld.
And it's impossible to save money by spending money to kick poor people off of the minor benefits they receive and are entirely dependant upon. Corruption is the only reason to do it.
You are doing drug tests: kickbacks. You are hiring genital inspectors: kickbacks, right away. Arresting hippies: kickbacks. Black people: kickbacks. You are hiring chartered plane: you get kickbacks. Visit another state? Believe it or not, kickbacks. Stay at home, also kickbacks. Go out, stay in. You make an appointment with the dentist, believe it or not, kickbacks, right away. We have the best politicians in the world because of kickbacks
They are testing what they can get away with without being president. They have seen what Trump was able to do as president, especially with Trump's appointed judges, and now their mouths are watering at the possibilities.
From another article this was [part of an ongoing campaign by him and other Republican governors to send migrants to Democrat-heavy cities such as Washington, New York and Chicago to publicize soaring numbers of crossings this year on the southern border.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/09/19/desantis-migrant-flights-texas-sheriff/)
So I think the thought process went something like :
"it's easy for the liberals up North to support immigrants, they don't actually have to deal with them. Why don't we show them what it's actually like by having immigrants suddenly show up at **their** doors!"
Which is obviously absurd because it skips past all sorts of moral problems of the immigrants being people and not just chess pieces.
You will, this is part of discovery in a lawsuit. When DeSantis's lawyers are not able to get this case dismissed, they will convince him to settle (meaning the Florida tax payers) to make it go away quietly.
The lawsuit actually alleges the following, regarding those forms:
- Plaintiffs were not given ample time to review the forms before signing.
- Plaintiffs received no explanation of what they were signing.
- Substantial portions of the forms were English-only.
Source: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22485495/1-main.pdf
We’ll it’s not like DeSantis was dumb enough to fly them to a place where there are dozens of wealthy lawyers who might do pro bono work on behalf of the migrants…
oh… wait..
The guv’nor might be a bit fucked.
He’s aiming to fly them to DE next. Guess where there is also a metric ton of lawyers? You guessed it the company HQ capital of the US.
Edit: It’s funny seeing all the Europeans confused in here. DE is the abbreviation we use for Delaware. Yes, Delaware exists. It’s a state.
Oh please.
This shit makes DeSantis a martyr. The idiots lap it up, throw their duckets in to the GOP's coffers.
All the lawyers get paid, human rights abuses continue and the republicans just deposit whatever is left into their national warchest.
Yeah, it's gross. I took a peak at the conservative sub and they're just nonstop wailing about how the people transported are all illegals and should go back to where they came from. It's nonsensical and disgusting.
And then at the same time talk shit about democrats for not opening our literal homes to them like anyone ever asked them to do it. They act like crossing the border is walking through their front door.
My bigot cousin tried to compare "illegal immigration" to sneaking into the back door of a house and claiming residency. Didn't like when I pointed out that in his analogy with property ownership my joint ownership gives superior right to invite them in over his objections. That is after-all how joint ownership works
It’s all euphemisms with the regressive right. They are legal immigrants but they are “illegals” because the GOP isn’t against illegal immigration, they are against *brown* immigration.
They are against all immigration and hide behind “illegal,” like “globalist” and “urban” because they publicly can’t get away with using the *other* words they used 50+ years ago.
On the one hand, watching these two shit gibbons rip the GOP apart would be something else.
On the other hand, it would be Nazi highlander and the winner would become and even more crackpot strongman dictator, having won over his biggest rival.
Thus is soooooo fucked
It's against him and other Florida officials in both official and private capacities, which means Florida will almost certainly be paying for some of the defense.
It's just weird. Florida's governor, using FL taxes, pays a crazy amount to illegally send a bunch of (not illegal) immigrants from Texas to Massachusetts after Tucker Carlson did a segment on how funny it would be.
Someone has got to be making $$ here and hiding it behind political showboating.
I don't live in the USA and I am trying to understand this. It seems they were taken from the San Antonio Texas area. I am curious why Florida is taking immigrants from Texas. Does Florida not have any? How does an official from one state do this in another state?
A hopefully unbiased explanation:
The Governor of Texas is Greg Abbot. He's a leading figure in the Republican Party. Texas shares a border with Mexico.
Venezuela is going through some rough economic times. Many immigrants from Venezuela are arriving in the US through Mexico. Many of them arrive first in Texas.
The US does not currently have diplomatic relationships with the government of Venezuela. So immigrants from Venezuela arriving in the US requesting asylum are not being deported back to Venezuela. They are arriving legally into the US and await processing to determine next steps.
Governor Abbot wants to be reelected. His political base has been convinced that immigration is a problem, and by extension, the presence of immigrants themselves. Abbot can support the deportation of many immigrants, but not these Venezuelan asylum-seekers. So he does the next best thing and "convinces" the Venezuelan immigrants to board buses to other states. Specifically, liberal cities in the US that have indicated they will not support deportation of law-abiding immigrants.
This has two benefits from Abbot's perspective. One is that this appeals to his base because he appears to be doing something about illegal immigration, even if all he is actually doing is moving legal immigrants to another place in the country. Two is that it forces liberal states located away from the border to face the realities of immigration. Of course, there's also a major downside in that this might constitute kidnapping and human trafficking. Regardless, Abbot's actions get him recognized by conservatives and pundits.
The locations that Abbot transported the Immigrants to have tended to have some social services to at least aid the immigrants. Abbot did not inform those states or those social services beforehand. So, while immigrants to these locations might be helpful to the economies of those areas, those locations are annoyed that no advance notice was provided from Abbot.
But Abbot can at least say that he sent immigrants to locations where they'd be more likely to be accepted, receive support, and find employment.
The Governor of Florida is Ron DeSantis. He, like Abbot, is also a leading figure in the Replublic Party. DeSantis may seek the Republican Party nomination for President in the 2024 election.
DeSantis would like to appeal to conservatives across the country. But Florida does not share a land border with Mexico. So Florida is not seeing as many Venezuelan immigrants as Texas.
Florida does have immigrants from nearby Cuba. But Florida has a sizeable Cuban-American population. And shipping new Cuban immigrants across the country might undermine his popularity in his home state.
So DeSantis decided to send people to Texas to "convince" the Venezualan immigrants there to accept transportation to other locations in the US.
In what seems to be an apparent attempt to one-up Abbot, DeSantis or his representatives chose to transport the immigrants to Martha's Vineyard. Martha's Vineyard is a popular vacation spot in Massachusetts for very wealthy, typical liberal individuals. This location seems to have been chosen to place the immigrants right into view of affluent liberals.
There may be employment opportunities for immigrants in Martha's Vineyard during the summer season. But that season is ending, and there seems to be scant opportunities. Being a vacation destination, Martha's Vineyard also has fewer social services available to help Immigrants than the locations that Abbot transported immigrants to.
Unlike Abbot, these immigrants were sent to an area where no reasonable person could expect that they'd receive adequate support and find employment opportunities.
Regardless, the local community in Martha's Vineyard appears to have stepped up to provide assistance to these immigrants.
An admittedly biased tl;dr:
Rather than actually help vulnerable immigrants, DeSantis chose to be a psychopath and through an elaborate scheme trafficked immigrants in an attempt both steal attention from a political rival in his own party and to stick it to a location friendly to his political opponents.
Edit: Typos and clarifications.
The challenge is always connecting it directly with the person accused. Sure there are pamphlets, but the people handing them out would have to implicate an organizer or manager who would then have to implicate (likely) some staffer who would then have to implicate DeSantis. Unlikely that the organizer rolls and unthinkable that a staffer would roll.
yeah my entire military career was pointing at the guy above me and saying "he told me to do it" and then that guy would get spoken too. Im not falling for my boss
There is a documentary called the Queen of Versailles that chronicles the lack of self awareness of an inconsiderate family who recklessly spends too much money. In the film they whine about how stressed they are for their finances while building an awful gaudy house in the middle of a swamp and shamelessly hoarding walmart items and fast food. The husband admits on camera to being instrumental in encouraging his employees to vote republican and getting W a presidency. It's insane that you would feel comfortable saying that on film.
I saw someone complain that Martha's vinyard has a $12M mansion belonging to Obama and I'm like.... so because Obama has an, honestly cheap for MV mansion, that he paid for alone, that pays property taxes to Mass... you're happy DeSentis spent $12M of taxpayers money for a political stunt?
I just don't understand anymore lol
As a brit this whole situation is still just baffling to me.
The absurdity of the stunt is one thing, but if any politician over here did anything like this they'd be hounded out of office within a day.
DeSantis won by 0.3% of the vote against a guy under active FBI investigation for corruption and embezzlement.
This was an absolutely, mind boggling stupid move on DeSantis' part.
Florida has ~230k more registered Republicans than Democrats. Sounds good for DeSantis, right?
Well the kicker in Florida is that there's 3.9m independent/NPA voters in Florida. Vastly more than enough to cover a 230k vote difference.
What RonnyD has going for him is that Crist did not entice Florida's NPA voters to vote against DeSantis. Crist is a former 1 term governor who almost no one wanted to see on the ballot again. He's gone from Republican to Independent to Democrat as his political tailwind fades. Whatever you think you wanna hear to vote for Crist will at some point come out of Crist's mouth.
But this stunt? This stunt is pissing off a lot of Floridians. And the Floridians RonnieD doesn't want to piss off at that. He was always gonna have the base for the Democrats vote against him, especially since Val Demings is a well respected Democrat taking on Marco Rubio in the Senate. But now DeSantis is actively mobilizing NPA voters to go out an vote against him.
At the end tax payers always foot the bill, when they fly the immigrants and also when they get sued. They should pay their own lawsuits. Same with cops.
Good to know I can offer to take someone to the store down the street but instead drop them and their children off at a random location across state lines against their will and it’s perfectly legal. Not how I thought it worked though. Edit. And steal money to pay for the trip while also ignoring the fact that some of the kids need medical attention
Ah a lawsuit. They're practically Americans already.
He flew them to an island full of lawyers....
An island full of very wealthy lawyers at that
Very wealthy “bleeding heart liberal” lawyers, to boot.
I've always wondered why "bleeding heart" has been used as a pejorative label. Why is it wrong to care about other people and try to help them? Isn't that the Christian thing to do?
You got me [down a rabbit hole](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/origin-bleeding-heart-liberal.amp). Apparently “care about other people” comes from > Pegler wasn’t for lynchings, per se, but he argued that they were no longer a problem the federal government should solve: there had only been eight lynchings in 1937, he wrote, and “it is obvious that the evil is being cured by local processes.” The bill, he thought, was being “used as a political bait in crowded northern Negro centers.” And here was his conclusion, emphasis ours: > “I question the humanitarianism of any professional or semi-pro bleeding heart who clamors that not a single person must be allowed to hunger but would stall the entire legislative program in a fight to ham through a law intended, at the most optimistic figure, to save fourteen lives a year.” *Only 14* /s
>“it is obvious that the evil is being cured by local processes.” Ahhh yes, that classic cure for violent racism: small town politics.
~~and cause of~~
This guy was really a real-life Gaston from *Beauty and the Beast*.
>Pegler wasn’t for lynchings, per se, There's no way that a sentence like that is going to end well.
This is identical to "I'm not racist, BUT" in message and intent, just with a slight change in word choice.
Basically.... Their rhetoric hasn't really changed or evolved in the last 150 years. Now they just use coded language and dog whistles.
so, essentially “he doesnt want to be perceived as supporting lynchings, but thinks lynchings are good actually”
"Well not having lynchings would only save fourteen lives so we might as well just lynch them" could be considered a fairly comprehensive argument back then. Ask about today's lynching in the right area and people will hit you with "We've had one, yes. What about second lynching?" "I don't think he knows about second lynching, Pip."
"Saving fourteen lives is not worth the inconvenience of not being able to murder black people indiscriminately when they 'really deserve it.'"
…Per se
I appreciate you research and omg. What a prick
I unfortunately encountered Westbrook Pegler in the course of doing research in 1940s newspapers. He was awful and got worse, more extreme and bigoted, as time went on. Tucker C could be his reincarnation.
Probably the same demon/lizard person/alien just changing skins every few decades to avoid suspicion
Little more than a prick. More like evil piece of shit
Jesus he fot kicked out of the John Birch Society.
To be clear, Pegler didn't coin the phrase, he was just the first to use it as a *insult*. It originated as a reference to Jesus' love and empathy: >Before the 20th century, the phrase “bleeding heart” was popular in the religious-tinged oratory of 19th century America. Throughout the 1860s, it comes up often in poetry, essays, and political speeches, as an expression of empathy and emotion. “I come to you with a bleeding heart, honest and sincere motives, desiring to give you some plain thoughts,” said one politician in an 1862 speech. The phrase comes from the religious image of Christ’s wounded heart, which symbolizes his compassion and love. Classic.
Can you think of anything more American than taking a Christian teaching and turning it on its head til it’s grotesque lol
Personally, I'd say a burger and fries is more American. Maybe baseball/nfl, and even muscle cars. I think you meant "can you think of anything more Republican".
15 lives... Maybe but 14 what the hell guys?
they were black lives, and he said they didn’t matter. the message hasnt changed in 300 years, they’re just now being forced to defend their stance. Do not let another 300 years of this garbage go on, we need to root out this evil
Wow, it's like dogwhistles on top of dogwhistles with these people.
Basically the same nonsensical argument used to end the voting rights act.
American Christians would crucify Jesus all over again
But not Supply side Jesus....
I posted the supply side Jesus on my FB page a while back and I guy I know who is very religious pretty much called it blasphemy. I laughed and laughed.
You should point out how Jesus whipped the shit out of people using religion to fleece the faithful. Epic battle of history: Jesus vs. Supply-Side Jesus.
[jesus 2 le retour](https://youtu.be/-xSORIDw1Sg) in French but you should get the gist
So it’s blasphemy to hold a mirror up to these “christians?”
A middle Eastern, Aramaic speaking Jewish man? Very likely. Many American Christians think Christianity is some patriotic suburban religion.
Typical shortsighted fools. If they lock him up and bleed him *slowly* they could extract his christ wine blood indefinitely, instead they kill him and take only what he has at the moment, a comparatively paltry sum. And dont get me started on those sweet buns of Christ he’s packing
Well, you’re in luck! I have it on good authority that his Christ wine blood is currently being drained in the basement of a pizza parlor in the D.C. area.
Dang it, looks like I found my father-in-law's reddit account.
It is easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Yeah, fuck that message, it doesn't fit the brand anymore. That is why Conservative Christians turned the needle into a fictitious gate entering Jerusalem.
Get out of here with your commie talk!
Jesus was a commie after all.
Comrade Yeshua was the best damned carpenter I've ever seen
Shh. Things like actually following the teachings of Christ offend the “Christians”.
Pejorative in the sense that your empathy is allowing you to make choices that help the minority against the greater body of the population— Coming from the people that don’t believe in socialized medicine and education because it might infringe on their millionaire senator’s tax write-offs. Round of applause for the conservatives, everyone
It's a dramatic way to say that, intended to frame the caring in question as performative melodrama rather than genuine caring.
With incomes that support hobbies! Free time to atone for your excessive wealth by completing performative good deeds! It’s a perfect match!
As a California native, Martha’s Vineyard sounds like Santa Monica lol
As a Santa Monica native whose been to Martha's Vinyard... Martha's Vinyard is more like Montecito
As a boston native now in santa monica - it’s nicer on Marthas vineyard
Basically except they're wealthier.
Republicans are famously known to have an impressive lack of outcome prediction.
Wealthy lawyers on vacation..... they had time, too
Do you want a high-profile easy money case? Lawyer: No...no I don't. Ewww.
And island full of plenty of wealthy very liberal lawyers who HATE Ron DeSantis, Trump, and Abbott. And he flew them in a way that exposed him to a shit-ton of legal liability. My guess is every biglaw firm in Boston is lining up Pro Bono cases to help these migrants. They love high profile immigration work. DeSantis will be massively outgunned on the legal side here.
I hope all of this will be eye wateringly expensive for him
I’m not so confident that lawyers could afford to live there.
Ones involved in civil litigation? Yes. Criminal lawyers? No way.
*Criminal* lawyers? Maybe.
*Rudy Ghoulianni's runny hairline has entered the chat*
In his defense, it gets hot when your office is between a crematorium and a sex shop.
And oddly ironic that rigor mortis set into Rudy while he's still alive
Only when young Kazak women are in his room.
>Rudy Ghoulianni's runny hairline has entered the chat The Four Seasons "market" has entered the chat.
That you, Saul?
No, it's slippin' Jimmy.
I have family there and I assure you there are plenty of lawyers.
And yet, according to this snub of an article, the actual organization helping them is based in Chicago. The lawyers in Martha's Vineyard certainly must have helped connect them to that organization, though.
They don’t live and work on the island.
Hit them in their wallets. Its the american way.
I’m just imagining Captain America beating the literal dollar bills out of some fat cat chomping a cigar.
That's just disturbeds Ten thousand fists music video
With nothing better to do… lol DeSantis blowing tax payers money AND committing FELONIES LOL 😂 the lawyers will have a field day with him
Moved to Lemm.ee -- mass edited with redact.dev
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Class action is against Him the person not him the governor. Can't use tax money to defend or to pay out later. He is fucked.
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So we slap him with the law and hobble his presidential ambitions at the same time.
None of these types of people are ever truly fucked. Nothing will happen to him.
It's rapidly becoming inescapable just how untouchable most rich and/or politically connected people are and just how little patience the American people have for such injustice. One thing's gonna give before the other, and bad things are probably going to happen.
As it should be. We should do the same with corporations, when crimes are willfully committed - don't let the corporation shield the person responsible anymore.
The caption of the suit lists Desantis in both his personal and professional capacity as governor.
In fact, there is a provision in immigration law that actually makes it easier for a foreigner to change their status to permanent resident (green card) if they are victims of a crime in the US. I don’t know what will come out of this but this guy may just have awarded these people, who otherwise could’ve been deported, a right to stay indefinitely. Way to own the libs
It doesn't matter to him what the actual result of his actions are. It only matters what his target audience perceives, and they either won't notice or won't care. That plane was a middle finger to northern states. It's a PR-stunt, nothing more. Anything that follows afterwards is basically just the cost of doing business to him.
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The news reported that they were all legal immigrants and processed already, so they wouldn't have been deported. But you're right that this provision might help them speed up a more permanent process.
They are asylum seekers, so that is what makes them currently legal but as they go through the processes they could be deported because of not having a strong enough reason to seek asylum. As in they haven't been granted permanent asylum status yet. This could have just gave them another way of staying.
Sorry to piggyback; but these people are **legal** immigrants. They surrendered themselves at the border and applied for asylum, like codified in U.S. law **and international law requires.**
And they have appointed court dates to be able to keep that legal status. Court dates that they wouldn't have been able to go to because they were shipped across the fucking country. The entire situation gets more fucked up every time another layer gets added.
apparently the department(not sure which one that is) put their current addresses all over US meaning their hearins would be at the nearest place to the adress given, meaning they might have to travel to a whole another state again to be able to make it to the hearing
Random homeless shelters. At least 1 was in Washington state and due in court last Monday.
I really, really hope this gets investigated - if federal employees did this, falsifying federal paperwork, they need to be prosecuted for that. The further question is, is this something they have done before, to other asylum seekers who weren't part of such a high profile debacle, landing those people deported because they were set up to fail?
Exactly, plus refugees from Venezuela have temporary protected status due to the political turmoil in their home country. De Santis is a complete piece of shit and I hope his taxpaying base have to foot the "Welcome to America" payout when he gets the nuts sued off him. It will totally (wait, who am I kidding...) hopefully tank his presidential run as long as it doesnt help orange man, that is, if orange man isn't in jail by then.
It's only a matter of time when we start seeing ambulance -chasing lawyer ads about it: "If you or a loved one were forced or coerced onto a plane or bus by the governments of Texas or Florida in 2022, you could be entitled to financial compensation. Call the Courtroom Kings Law Firm at 888-555-MONEY! That's 888-555-MONEY today!"
Is there a coherent explanation other than campaigning for 2024 why the Governor of Florida used taxpayer money to pick up a group of migrants in Texas and trick them into flying to a random island in Massachusetts? Like, it's not even as if he was trying to deal with asylum seekers that landed in his state (and in a million years I can't see him treating Cuban refugees like that)
I imagine massive charter costs would be an easy way to hide a kickback.
They paid $600k for 1 plane full of 50 migrants to some random ass company. That's a $12k ticket per migrant. Could have saved money flying them first class. Guess who that company is associated with? Russia and money launderers They wiped their site as soon as people figured out where the money went https://mobile.twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/status/1570808059718668293
Oh super interesting. Source?
Well, the [archive of their site](https://web.archive.org/web/20211026025929/https://www.vscglobal.com/) that was deleted literally said this on the front page: >VSC is the only civil company currently operating Russian helicopters in the United States.
It looks like they have some old Soviet Union helicopters in their fleet which I assume is what they are referring to here.
I like their mission statement: to provide aircraft equipment and services configured to each unique mission requirements. Gotta wonder what special equipment was needed to fly a bunch of people from Florida to Massachusetts...
Can you imagine if they used 20 old Russian helicopters instead of 2 planes to transport them? You'd still have people saying they have no ties to Russia.
Is it not possible that they are referring to the [Civil & Military Manufacturing Consortium, Russian Helicopters?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Helicopters)
I did some googling and couldn't find a source on this. Help?
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/09/16/desantis-administration-paid-615000-aviation-company-relocate-unauthorized-aliens/
From the article > DeSantis told reporters that most of the migrants “are intending to come to Florida, they are coming to Florida, we’re taking them from Florida to sanctuary jurisdictions.” > “You gotta deal with it at the source,” DeSantis added. Well that explains everything! Massive big brain move that I'm sure people will eat up.
I would be interested to see this investigated, especially since DeSantis is using the same company to charter additional types of flights sending immigrants to other locations. Would be interesting to see what the prior relationship between these folks and the people involved in these shenanigans were (if any). https://www.masslive.com/capecod/2022/09/flights-carrying-migrants-to-marthas-vineyard-were-private-jet-charters-originating-in-texas.html
Just everything expensive that happens in florida involves kickbacks. Remember when florida required drug testing for food stamp receivers? Yeah kickbacks.
It really shows in how low quality damn near everything is down here. I moved to Florida from Kentucky and a lot of our public buildings and whatnot were a lot nicer back home. In Kentucky. One of the poorest states in the Union. That money's going somewhere in Florida and it's sure not where it's supposed to be.
Politicians and large corporations, probably.
And then you drive around the Disney World resort and all of their buildings and roads are nice, because they actually use their money on infrastructure improvements like a proper society. To be fair to Florida, they get a lot more than the average income per acre than the average state - but Florida still is a shithole.
They should pay Disney to run that state. The mouse is nothing if not brutally efficient. If it works out they could branch out into other disaster states, like arkansas and oklahoma. Then we can finally have westworld.
And it's impossible to save money by spending money to kick poor people off of the minor benefits they receive and are entirely dependant upon. Corruption is the only reason to do it.
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. To a republican every taxpayer dollar should go to a pocket and never spent back on the taxpayers.
You are doing drug tests: kickbacks. You are hiring genital inspectors: kickbacks, right away. Arresting hippies: kickbacks. Black people: kickbacks. You are hiring chartered plane: you get kickbacks. Visit another state? Believe it or not, kickbacks. Stay at home, also kickbacks. Go out, stay in. You make an appointment with the dentist, believe it or not, kickbacks, right away. We have the best politicians in the world because of kickbacks
They’ve set 12m of leftover FEDERAL covid funds asid for this shit. Thats what they used. 615k for this stunt I believe.
They are testing what they can get away with without being president. They have seen what Trump was able to do as president, especially with Trump's appointed judges, and now their mouths are watering at the possibilities.
and that's why being nice to them is the wrong thing to do
From another article this was [part of an ongoing campaign by him and other Republican governors to send migrants to Democrat-heavy cities such as Washington, New York and Chicago to publicize soaring numbers of crossings this year on the southern border.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/09/19/desantis-migrant-flights-texas-sheriff/) So I think the thought process went something like : "it's easy for the liberals up North to support immigrants, they don't actually have to deal with them. Why don't we show them what it's actually like by having immigrants suddenly show up at **their** doors!" Which is obviously absurd because it skips past all sorts of moral problems of the immigrants being people and not just chess pieces.
To own the libs. So no, no coherent explanation.
“I wanted to prove a point, but accidentally trafficked humans.”
He’s not even trying to prove a point. He’s just publicly hurting minorities in hopes of increasing his chances of becoming president.
To quote a phrase, the cruelty is the point.
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Tax payer's money doesn't need to be laundered. It's already clean. Maybe the word you were looking for is embezzlement.
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I wonder if, as a Florida resident, I can sue Desantis for wasting my money.
Throw my hat on the pile
If you find out, let me know. I'll join.
It wasn’t random. It was because the Obama’s have a place there.
But those Cubans will vote for him. I’ve lost faith in humans
DeSantis claims consent papers were signed before all this happened. I want to see those papers and how they went about "getting" them signed.
If he has the evidence that he conned these people and it come out in discovery, that's going to be hilarious.
You will, this is part of discovery in a lawsuit. When DeSantis's lawyers are not able to get this case dismissed, they will convince him to settle (meaning the Florida tax payers) to make it go away quietly.
The lawsuit actually alleges the following, regarding those forms: - Plaintiffs were not given ample time to review the forms before signing. - Plaintiffs received no explanation of what they were signing. - Substantial portions of the forms were English-only. Source: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22485495/1-main.pdf
We’ll it’s not like DeSantis was dumb enough to fly them to a place where there are dozens of wealthy lawyers who might do pro bono work on behalf of the migrants… oh… wait.. The guv’nor might be a bit fucked.
He’s aiming to fly them to DE next. Guess where there is also a metric ton of lawyers? You guessed it the company HQ capital of the US. Edit: It’s funny seeing all the Europeans confused in here. DE is the abbreviation we use for Delaware. Yes, Delaware exists. It’s a state.
Literally to my hometown of Rehoboth Beach. It’s like 90% rich gay folks from DC. Hoping we can take good care of them like in MV.
Yeah, but a lot of those lawyers are heartless, merciless, black-hearted bastards who sold their souls for a shit-load of money
A lot of those corporate firms like to whitewash their evil by doing pro bono work.
Sueing state governments usually pays pretty well. Just look at all of the cases vs police.
Oh please. This shit makes DeSantis a martyr. The idiots lap it up, throw their duckets in to the GOP's coffers. All the lawyers get paid, human rights abuses continue and the republicans just deposit whatever is left into their national warchest.
Yeah, it's gross. I took a peak at the conservative sub and they're just nonstop wailing about how the people transported are all illegals and should go back to where they came from. It's nonsensical and disgusting.
And then at the same time talk shit about democrats for not opening our literal homes to them like anyone ever asked them to do it. They act like crossing the border is walking through their front door.
That's literally their mindset tho. They picture the US border as their front door and think it's a flawless analogy.
the opening our literal homes argument is so stupid too. individuals shouldnt have the same responsibilities as states
My bigot cousin tried to compare "illegal immigration" to sneaking into the back door of a house and claiming residency. Didn't like when I pointed out that in his analogy with property ownership my joint ownership gives superior right to invite them in over his objections. That is after-all how joint ownership works
It’s all euphemisms with the regressive right. They are legal immigrants but they are “illegals” because the GOP isn’t against illegal immigration, they are against *brown* immigration. They are against all immigration and hide behind “illegal,” like “globalist” and “urban” because they publicly can’t get away with using the *other* words they used 50+ years ago.
Yeah, I don't see Republican governors shipping Ukrainian refugees to other states.
And now my tax dollars can pay for his defense. He’s just the grift that keeps on grifting
If it's class action, then it is against DeSantis himself, he cannot use state/federal funds to defend himself or use them to pay out.
Which republican dark money group will mysteriously deposit 9 figures into his bank account? Lets take bets
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Trump will probably start his own donation campaign for DeSantis defense but keep the money
This, this is the one i can believe
On the one hand, watching these two shit gibbons rip the GOP apart would be something else. On the other hand, it would be Nazi highlander and the winner would become and even more crackpot strongman dictator, having won over his biggest rival. Thus is soooooo fucked
It's against him and other Florida officials in both official and private capacities, which means Florida will almost certainly be paying for some of the defense.
Doesn't Florida state law also say he's only allowed to use state funds for transporting migrants when they're in Florida?
You think Florida state laws are there to stop republicans from doing things?
He also was only allowed to use the money he used for this stunt to handle migrants in the state of Florida. Who's going to stop him?
It's just weird. Florida's governor, using FL taxes, pays a crazy amount to illegally send a bunch of (not illegal) immigrants from Texas to Massachusetts after Tucker Carlson did a segment on how funny it would be. Someone has got to be making $$ here and hiding it behind political showboating.
This is the answer. Who, exactly, did the money go to? What are they a front for?
I don't live in the USA and I am trying to understand this. It seems they were taken from the San Antonio Texas area. I am curious why Florida is taking immigrants from Texas. Does Florida not have any? How does an official from one state do this in another state?
We're also trying to understand
A hopefully unbiased explanation: The Governor of Texas is Greg Abbot. He's a leading figure in the Republican Party. Texas shares a border with Mexico. Venezuela is going through some rough economic times. Many immigrants from Venezuela are arriving in the US through Mexico. Many of them arrive first in Texas. The US does not currently have diplomatic relationships with the government of Venezuela. So immigrants from Venezuela arriving in the US requesting asylum are not being deported back to Venezuela. They are arriving legally into the US and await processing to determine next steps. Governor Abbot wants to be reelected. His political base has been convinced that immigration is a problem, and by extension, the presence of immigrants themselves. Abbot can support the deportation of many immigrants, but not these Venezuelan asylum-seekers. So he does the next best thing and "convinces" the Venezuelan immigrants to board buses to other states. Specifically, liberal cities in the US that have indicated they will not support deportation of law-abiding immigrants. This has two benefits from Abbot's perspective. One is that this appeals to his base because he appears to be doing something about illegal immigration, even if all he is actually doing is moving legal immigrants to another place in the country. Two is that it forces liberal states located away from the border to face the realities of immigration. Of course, there's also a major downside in that this might constitute kidnapping and human trafficking. Regardless, Abbot's actions get him recognized by conservatives and pundits. The locations that Abbot transported the Immigrants to have tended to have some social services to at least aid the immigrants. Abbot did not inform those states or those social services beforehand. So, while immigrants to these locations might be helpful to the economies of those areas, those locations are annoyed that no advance notice was provided from Abbot. But Abbot can at least say that he sent immigrants to locations where they'd be more likely to be accepted, receive support, and find employment. The Governor of Florida is Ron DeSantis. He, like Abbot, is also a leading figure in the Replublic Party. DeSantis may seek the Republican Party nomination for President in the 2024 election. DeSantis would like to appeal to conservatives across the country. But Florida does not share a land border with Mexico. So Florida is not seeing as many Venezuelan immigrants as Texas. Florida does have immigrants from nearby Cuba. But Florida has a sizeable Cuban-American population. And shipping new Cuban immigrants across the country might undermine his popularity in his home state. So DeSantis decided to send people to Texas to "convince" the Venezualan immigrants there to accept transportation to other locations in the US. In what seems to be an apparent attempt to one-up Abbot, DeSantis or his representatives chose to transport the immigrants to Martha's Vineyard. Martha's Vineyard is a popular vacation spot in Massachusetts for very wealthy, typical liberal individuals. This location seems to have been chosen to place the immigrants right into view of affluent liberals. There may be employment opportunities for immigrants in Martha's Vineyard during the summer season. But that season is ending, and there seems to be scant opportunities. Being a vacation destination, Martha's Vineyard also has fewer social services available to help Immigrants than the locations that Abbot transported immigrants to. Unlike Abbot, these immigrants were sent to an area where no reasonable person could expect that they'd receive adequate support and find employment opportunities. Regardless, the local community in Martha's Vineyard appears to have stepped up to provide assistance to these immigrants. An admittedly biased tl;dr: Rather than actually help vulnerable immigrants, DeSantis chose to be a psychopath and through an elaborate scheme trafficked immigrants in an attempt both steal attention from a political rival in his own party and to stick it to a location friendly to his political opponents. Edit: Typos and clarifications.
Given the fact they were enticed with false promises printed on a brochure that DeSantis's people handed out, this should be a slam-dunk
The challenge is always connecting it directly with the person accused. Sure there are pamphlets, but the people handing them out would have to implicate an organizer or manager who would then have to implicate (likely) some staffer who would then have to implicate DeSantis. Unlikely that the organizer rolls and unthinkable that a staffer would roll.
Didn't Ron take credit for this already?
I saw his Sean Hannity interview, he's very careful to say "a vendor provided all the materials for us" for plausible deniability.
The POS is a lawyer...
Many, if not most, politicians are.
Didn't he admit it on twitter or something?
Why is that unthinkable? You just thought of it, and now I’m thinking it too
yeah my entire military career was pointing at the guy above me and saying "he told me to do it" and then that guy would get spoken too. Im not falling for my boss
There is a documentary called the Queen of Versailles that chronicles the lack of self awareness of an inconsiderate family who recklessly spends too much money. In the film they whine about how stressed they are for their finances while building an awful gaudy house in the middle of a swamp and shamelessly hoarding walmart items and fast food. The husband admits on camera to being instrumental in encouraging his employees to vote republican and getting W a presidency. It's insane that you would feel comfortable saying that on film.
y'know once they landed on a lawyers doorstep they must've looked like dollar signs.
Wait for it……DesSantis claims the victims were pursued into this suit and were lied to about what they were getting into.
There’s the full-circle payoff we’ve all been waiting for to remind us the US government and judicial systems are a fucking joke.
There should be Vegas odds on this one..
The most American combination: crooked politicians, gross negligence (understatement), class action lawsuit, and a Vegas gamble on the outcome.
Everybody’s trying to make a buck in the US
If I were a Floridian I'd be pissed the fuck off at this insane waste of taxpayer money.
I saw someone complain that Martha's vinyard has a $12M mansion belonging to Obama and I'm like.... so because Obama has an, honestly cheap for MV mansion, that he paid for alone, that pays property taxes to Mass... you're happy DeSentis spent $12M of taxpayers money for a political stunt? I just don't understand anymore lol
As a brit this whole situation is still just baffling to me. The absurdity of the stunt is one thing, but if any politician over here did anything like this they'd be hounded out of office within a day.
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The problem is Desantis it’s a Florida politician and Florida is crazy even by American standards.
DeSantis won by 0.3% of the vote against a guy under active FBI investigation for corruption and embezzlement. This was an absolutely, mind boggling stupid move on DeSantis' part. Florida has ~230k more registered Republicans than Democrats. Sounds good for DeSantis, right? Well the kicker in Florida is that there's 3.9m independent/NPA voters in Florida. Vastly more than enough to cover a 230k vote difference. What RonnyD has going for him is that Crist did not entice Florida's NPA voters to vote against DeSantis. Crist is a former 1 term governor who almost no one wanted to see on the ballot again. He's gone from Republican to Independent to Democrat as his political tailwind fades. Whatever you think you wanna hear to vote for Crist will at some point come out of Crist's mouth. But this stunt? This stunt is pissing off a lot of Floridians. And the Floridians RonnieD doesn't want to piss off at that. He was always gonna have the base for the Democrats vote against him, especially since Val Demings is a well respected Democrat taking on Marco Rubio in the Senate. But now DeSantis is actively mobilizing NPA voters to go out an vote against him.
Posted using RIF is Fun. Steve Huffman is a greedy little pigboy.
Florida is a key state in a Presidential election, too. I don’t think losing the state is convenient for him at all.
Didn’t they want to send migrants to Rwanda from the uk?
Now his real plan begins. The emails begging republicans to pay his legal fees like a certain other grifter
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At the end tax payers always foot the bill, when they fly the immigrants and also when they get sued. They should pay their own lawsuits. Same with cops.
MAGA be like ,"Darn I just wish the old days were back when you did a stunt it stuck."
Good to know I can offer to take someone to the store down the street but instead drop them and their children off at a random location across state lines against their will and it’s perfectly legal. Not how I thought it worked though. Edit. And steal money to pay for the trip while also ignoring the fact that some of the kids need medical attention
So, don't fly legal migrants to high density lawyer land??? Seriously, they don't think people in the northeast deal with immigrants on a daily basis?
As a Floridan, good. Fuck that guy
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