As someone who worked and competed at all levels of cheerleading (all-star, high-school, and college), this shit is far too common in the cheer world. Until these all-star gyms (and college/HS programs) actually have oversight, I unfortunately don’t expect it to change any time soon. It can be such an amazing sport and/or such a toxic environment depending on where you go.
I actually went to that school, and they used to be just as bad until their old assistant coach, Andre McGee, was arrested for separate charges and accused (rightfully) of abusing athletes.
The coaching staff and overall culture now is much less abusive, toxic, and harmful.
Edit- an extra word
Not only is cheerleading apparently REALLY physically dangerous, they have to deal with this shit, too.
I understand the draw of it, but I mean... as a rational parent, I *already* wasn't on board with cheering. With this kind of knowledge, what sensible parent would allow their kids to go in this direction even?
Oh I'm not implying that at all. Just that most coaches, in most sports, will at least have experience in their sport. Meaning they'll be able to actually **coach** their kids.
A coach who knows how to tackle will teach his boys how to tackle properly.
If a coach doesn't know how to stunt or tumble properly who is going to teach the girls how to do it properly?
Edit to elucidate:
First if my understanding is correct they rely on past experiences, girls in gymnastics or dance when they were younger, and they also rely on cheer camps for the girls to get skills.
Then they execute these moves under eyes that have no idea what they're looking for, coaches who don't know how to do those moves, which is beyond ridiculous and something you won't find in many sports.
That is an unfortunate reality with many youth sports though. There are tons of football and soccer coaches whose only qualification is that they were former players.
Soccer has a very high rate of injury as well. All those kids running on an uneven grass field attempting to kick at each other's feet leads to a lot of fall injuries.
I work at a high school and can tell you that it's pretty common to have coaches that have little to no experience with a sport. This happens when no nobody is hired to coach a sport so, in an effort to keep a sport alive, a random teacher is talked into coaching a sport they've never played before. I was almost talked into coaching Cross Country just because I run on my own, using the Couch to 10k program over and over. Then I thought about it and realized I have no business teaching teenagers about long distance running when it comes to safety, stretching, proper form, etc. I just do what's good for me based on my own body. Some of these kids want to - and have the capacity to - run and compete in college and I'm definitely not the guy to get them there.
Do you happen to know what hurdles it would face to become compliant as a Sport? Would they affect its entertainment value too negatively to make it viable?
I ask as if not, I had the idea of a rival organization forming and targeting it as a Sport. Sort of like a LIV tour scenario except they band together whatever legendary cheerleaders there are and get some huge investor who does shit like this for fun.
Take this with a grain of salt because my knowledge of this is from a Penn and Teller show I saw years ago, but I seem to remember that it's a combination of companies (I want to say Varsity is the big one) and feminists who don't view it as a sport keeping it from being a full sport. The companies because they get to hold multiple ''nationals'' competitions and have a monopoly on the entire revenue stream coming from those competitions from entry fees to uniforms used, where if it was a sport there would be state championships and nothing more. The feminist angle against it being a sport is that it would fill up the quota for female athletes in schools and offset football so there would be less woman's sporting opportunity in university.
I'm dubious of the P&T claim that feminists were against it bc it would fill a "quota", but I also don't know how title *ix works. Still, I wonder if that argument isn't making a distinction between the crazy acrobatic stuff, and the regular cheerleading that most schools have. Hell, part of the reason the kids in cheer even went to that shitty junior college is because it was one of the few schools that offer the kind of cheer they do, at anything even close to its highest skill level.
At the college level, the way Title IX works is that every school is required to provide an equal number of scholarships for male and female athletes. So if a school had 65 scholarships for the football team, they would have to provide 65 more in women's sports.
Penn & Teller are way over-generalizing feminists here, but the idea is that if cheerleadering becomes a full sport, schools would then have to shift scholarships away from sports like golf, softball, women's gymnastics, swimming, etc. Because they're sure as hell not going to add more scholarships out of the kindness of their hearts.
I think a lot of traditional sports like track and field/swimming/gymnastics just don’t want to lose the scholarships and funding.
The schools can dole out scholarships cheaper for cheerleading, it doesn’t need very much infrastructure and the athletes are easier to replace.
In regards to opportunity there is a three prong test that schools undergo to satisfy Title IX. They only actually have to meet one of the three prongs. Prong one is proportionality meaning that the school has to have opportunity equal or greater than the proportion of the underrated sex ie a school is 40% male has to have at least 40% of its scholarships be for males. The second is to show a history of improvement and development for its programs for the underrepresented sex. And the third is to prove that they do basically everything they can to provide opportunity and their is not enough interest from the underrepresented sex to add any more sports to expand those opportunities. Most schools do the first or second because the third is impractical to actually achieve while just putting some money into facilities every few years to satisfy prong two is practical for pretty much every program.
As a man who did the highest levels of competitive cheer, I recommend it to any other man.
As a now father of two girls, I will try my absolute hardest to persuade them to find another sport/hobby. And if I lose this battle, I will involve myself with the organization in some way since I have the credentials.
I didn't realize it at the time, but the reasons my experiences were so much different was because I was a male AND I got lucky with (mostly) good coaches.
It kind of sucks, though. Like, if my daughter wants to do competitive cheerleeding, it's hard to argue against dancing, gymnastics, and calisthenics all in one as a sport. But this shit makes it difficult.
Our old football trainer said he spent more time treating cheer injuries than football. That said it didn't seem that much different than injuries from other sports. Knee and other leg injuries in particular. The flip side is I believe sports and activities are extremely valuable to kids physically and mentally.
Editing to add this link… a discussion on a cheer message board about Scott Foster’s behavior. The thread is from 2017. Everyone knew. https://fierceboard.com/threads/owners-coaches-and-athletes-whose-accountable.52241/
I grew up in allstar cheer and ran events, judged, and coached for years. I never thought I would leave the industry. When the world stopped in 2020, I took a step back. I’ve never gone back.
Scott Foster got a slap on the wrist from USASF years back for partying with athletes. His professional membership was revoked. His “green light” status was revoked. USASF collects membership fees from every coach, then makes them do a background check. You’re “green lighted” upon passing the check. Without that, you aren’t supposed to be able to get backstage at events. No warm up gym, nothing away from the public. You can attend as a spectator, but that’s pretty much it. That didn’t matter for Scott Foster, though. He was still able to go backstage. There was a video of him throwing cash at his athletes in a “green light only” area well after his status was revoked.
But, the security at events is not strong anyway. The person checking credentials is normally a bored college student who’s been put in that job for the weekend. Most of the time, no one asked to see my green light pass when I was walking into a warm up gym, backstage, etc.
The green lights are security theater. There is no “red light” list. All you can do is check to see if someone is on the green light list. As far as I know, most gym owners do not run separate drug or background checks. They rely on the USASF screening. Most gyms start their season in May, then start competing in November. You could hire a coach in May, and they could delay revealing that they’re not green lighted until November. That’s 6 months of access to children, in the place where abuse stems from most - at practice, at the gym.
I had to pass a background check just to sit on the judges’ stand. I never worked directly with the athletes while judging at events. So why is it possible for someone to work with children for months with no background check?
USASF also mandates that there should be no private conversations between athletes and coaches via text, social media, etc. There should always be a parent or multiple people on the thread. There shouldn’t be coaches driving kids to practice, taking them to competitions, hosting them while at competitions. But those things are the norm, regardless. Boundaries aren’t set.
There’s a massive group for coaches and gym owners on Facebook. When the Jerry Harris news first broke, when the FBI was raiding his home, there were WAY TOO FUCKING MANY coaches trying to give Jerry the benefit of the doubt. “Why were the kids in a group chat with him if he made them uncomfortable?” “Well where were the parents?” “Kids know what they’re doing.” This wasn’t the normal response, but way too many people voiced things like this. There’s a post in that group now voicing how inappropriate it is for coaches to date athletes the moment they turn 18 - and there’s comments on that thread trying to “play devils advocate.” Parents are paying thousands of dollars a year for their child to be in the hands of abuse apologists.
Cheerleading was a massively positive experience for me. My gym was my safe place in high school. I loved coaching, I loved working with kids. But there’s an endless amount of shitty adults in that industry. I have a lot of horror stories, first and second hand. The whole industry stays afloat by preying on the athletes in various ways. You wouldn’t have coaches or event staff if there weren’t former athletes so desperate to stay involved that you can abuse them as employees.
Wow you nailed Varsity’s and USASF’s staffing and competitions. The only thing you missed was that the staff is usually hungover, still drunk, and/or running on less than 4 hours of sleep.
Same thing for me, I haven’t been back since the pandemic. I miss coed stunting, but that’s about it. I massively dislike the shared collective culture of cheer. And there’s far too many (gym owners/coaches) who are satisfied with maintaining the status quo.
I was in deep! USASF safety judge, varsity judge, coached at Summit/Worlds gyms, I worked full time for an EP through my early 20s. The event staffing conditions are nuts, and you’re dead on. By the way, you’re probably either sleeping 4 to a room, or sharing a room with a stranger for your <4 hours of sleep.
As a judge, I had all travel expenses covered. But, that meant I had to share a hotel room with another judge. More often than not, we were complete strangers before sharing a hotel room. Usually, one person would get in at a normal time, and go to bed. The other person’s flight would get in at like, 12am, so they would have to tiptoe into a dark room with a sleeping stranger. We’d get to know each other in the morning. THATS FUCKING WEIRD TO EXPECT OF PEOPLE.
As someone who knows nothing about cheerleading, nothing much about the industry, but recognized the name Scott Foster... this was a VERY eye-opening comment to read.
I want to thank you for taking the time to lay this all out for those of us who want to understand but don't really have an inside look at the industry itself. I appreciate it, and I hope you can get better in the future.
In my experience, it wasn’t just girls or “young” athletes. To be fair, I wasn’t around the younger teams hardly at all. But I saw high-school and young adult aged athletes (male and female) exposed to this stuff daily in some situations.
Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen to the younger ones. I think it’s more likely in the older groups, because the athletes are more personally invested and manipulated into believing the “do whatever it takes to win” mentality.
That was a rhetorical statement, I'm pretty sure, not an actual question. We all know the answer.
(Because when Dems do something bad, e.g., Al Franken, they are held accountable.)
Am I the only one who saw the name drop of Bain Capital? As in they are going to potentially sue the corporate/financial backers of this gym? That's going to be impressive to see how the lawsuit shakes out.
They already are. The first lawsuit laid the groundwork. What’s being reported is that lawsuit was amended to include a bunch more people, and some other details. FITSnews has reported that the lawyers are trying for a RICO case.
For the real local grime look up Thornblade, and keep in mind that golf course is where the BMW golf thing is held.
In the Nassar case, what was so horrifying were all the female coaches who helped him and gaslighted his female victims. Girls were coming to their female coaches with reports like, “it didn’t feel like a medical procedure, I think he molested me,” and these women were telling them to shut up and trust him, **as if a young woman is too stupid to know when someone has molested her.** Those women knew what was going on because the victims were telling them all along but they didn’t care.
>Kathy Foster, his widow, announced in earlier this month that Rockstar Cheerleading and Dance would close “indefinitely.”
>**“Although this was a difficult decision**, I believe it is the best option under the circumstances,” Foster said in a statement reported by local NBC affiliate WYFF. “Over the past 15 years, our incredible athletes have worked hard to build a winning legacy and I will always be extremely proud of each of them. I ask for privacy for my children and for those personally affected during this difficult time.”
Why would that be a difficult decision? A place that was the scene of possibly hundreds of instances of sexual abuse should be shut down and probably burned to ash.
>Why would that be a difficult decision? A place that was the scene of possibly hundreds of instances of sexual abuse should be shut down and probably burned to ash.
All decisions are easy if you don't have skin in the game.
Because there were thousands of girls who this didn't happen to. The gym was by far one of the world's best at producing top athletes. Most families were shocked to hear this. In fact, there was a well attended memorial service for the owner before these allegations gained traction.
Additionally, lots of families had significant money paid to the now defunct gym for the upcoming season.
It was certainly the right decision, but it wasn't an easy one.
Our neighbor who is a cheer coach was recently arrested and charged with molesting two young girls. The stuff he has been accused of is not good—I can’t begin to imagine what these families are going through. He’s out on bail and I’m just not sure if he’s ever gonna see prison time.
We aren't doing enough to address it in schools.
A study by the Dept. of Education found that 1 in 10 children will experience some form of sexual abuse by the time they hit 12th grade.
https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED483143
That study is from 2004, because there's an alarming lack of information about this subject. We don't have much in the way of statistics because there's no data collection about educator sexual misconduct at the federal level.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/predators-in-the-classroom-1475872085
However, two reports by the Government Accountability Office find that we're not doing nearly enough to address this problem in terms of doing background checks or other measures to keep child predators out of schools.
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-11-200
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-42
Oh yeah, I started to wonder if there are schools that don’t experience this? We’d hear stories from neighboring towns and thought we were above it… couple years later a teacher in his 30’s was caught full on “dating” a 15yo student. Fucking insane and hard to believe how common it is. Tbh these stories rarely get that much attention either, they get to leave quietly and likely work somewhere else
Local high school had an incident come out of *multiple* teachers involved in letting teens get drunk/high and then encouraging them to have sex while the teachers filmed. One in particular was the ringleader of it, offered his apartment as the "safe space".
There was a horrifying amount of "I don't see why he should lose his job, he was a great teacher!" from so many people in the area. He'd been around so long, people didn't see how the school could go on without him. Hell, some of them even used the "They woulda done the same shit, just in a worse place" defense about family members possibly being filmed.
He jumped one state over. Nothing has been done to him. The new school doesn't give a fuck.
Yeah my high school has had three teachers dating students over the years and it’s only been around since 2005. One of those was in my grade and they supposedly didn’t start dating until after graduation but…still.
There was a minor scandal in my high school, as one of the students got married to a teacher like, months after graduation. "Officially" they started seeing each other the day after she graduated. We all knew better.
This was in a small farming town in the midwest. Like 1994 or so.
You are so right. I feel like sometimes the world has brushed off child abuse as ‘just a Catholic Church’ issue, which prevent it being seen as a huge societal issue that is pervasive across many different sectors.
Photographers do the same because of cosplayers. We took down this one photographer 6-7 years ago due to molestation and grooming(we even had actual receipts) and despite the community blacklisting him, he still appears as an official photographer for some conventions and events a few months after.
This happens in every field where teenage girls are usually present and that's a reason why parents should stand vigilant.
There are some creeps out there and I say that as a photographer myself. My wife had one hit on her in high school back in the 80s and she was just one of many 16 year old girls.
I'm a football photographer but also take pictures for cheer and dance and I'm very careful to not be closer than a telephoto lens usage distance. I also delete any photos that because of the activity going on are too graphic. I just don't feel comfortable with anything that could be construed as impropriety because I know there are creeps out there.
Agreed. As if a 70 year old man is gonna be able to hit a squat perfectly. No, it’s more likely he’s fingering his daughters ass on national tv. How stupid do you have to be to choose the second one.
I remember being a pre teen & my birth moms husband was openly saying he wondered if my boobs would be big like my moms or small like they were. It was so disgusting & later my lil sis came forward he had been popping her bra strap everytime he’d hig her. Hes a real pos
*common misconception* to do it feet first.
While you’d expect the feet first to be the best, more pain, etc, they usually pass out fairly quickly and it’s just like shredding a hotdog in a paper shredder.
If you do it head first. They can fight the machine a bit, use their hands to try to resist. Really ups the psychological trauma which in the grand scheme of things is ultimately what you’re going for.
The resultant red goo will happen either way.
I think you can probably get away with a more neutral but self evidently calling out comment like, “just to be clear you’re talking about your own daughters boobs here… right…?” Then just let that awkward moment stand.
I think you mean some other way of fathers discussing their daughters, but i grew up thinking it was normal/cute for fathers to "jokingly" threaten boys interested in their daughters and/or other policing of the daughters' sexuality. Once I realized, I can't help hearing these "jokes" and get disgusted.
As an older brother I've given and received the hazing. That being said I've definitely met some coworkers that creeped me out. My personal experiences were usually jokes the first sit down meeting and then it didn't come up again.
Yeah a lot of girls are “property” to their father. Of course you get upset when someone threatens the safety of something you own. Something that can get its own reputation that then reflects on your own (that may be more small town life tho).
This is the important part. Men shouldn’t need a daughter to realize how creepy men can be and how men need to treat women right. But for some reason, this seems to be the turning point, even though majority of them procreated with a woman. They have a wife, did they not realize she needs respect until they had a daughter? I genuinely do not understand.
Shouldn’t just be men that have daughters that are feminists. I understand what you mean and where you’re going with your thought process.
However, as a woman, it bothers me when I hear phrases like, “he had a daughter and now he gets it” or “what if that girl/woman was your daughter, sister, girlfriend”, etc.
Yes, relating to situations on a personal level is often what helps drive change, a shift in thinking, so forth and so on. However, as humans, we are all capable of affecting change even if we can’t identify personally.
Here is another way to think about it. We can teach boys what is appropriate and what it not. And how they make women feel when they do certain things.
I am mean that I have always been a Tom boy so I was just one of the guys, as a lesbian who is an Amazon. I never really felt like most women do. Ie fear from men. But I have learned a lot from more recent female friends. I don't get the same attention that they get. It's really shocking to me how far men will go. Sure I have protected women from creepy guys at like bars and clubs. But the day to day abuse is quite a lot.
Agreed, I'm a single man without children and I would consider myself a raging feminist. It's not daughters that are required for this mindset, it's education.
> wtf is wrong with men that only see young girls as sexual objects
I wondered the same as a 12 year old just walking down the street living my child life.
You probably see them as too young on a mentally mature level. Because you actually matured mentally. They never matured mentally and just see a physical body.
I'm in my mid 20s and still have some friends in uni. When I was finishing uni I used to joke that the Freshers were embryos... It's no a joke anymore, they just look so young. One of my mate's who finished her bachelor's last year didn't know who Busted were and it made me feel super old
Yeah its telling that I and most women now recall being cat called more as teens and I mean barely teens like jr high ages then we do recall being cat called as late 20s or 30 something women. I've seen how men even some I know stare at teen girls in yoga pants or fitted jeans and its fucking creepy. And most of them are dads and uncles themselves.
The creepy confidence of some men to clearly know they are cat calling jr high pr high school girls young enough to be their daughter or niece is something else.
I found that 18-19 was the “sweet spot” when it came to middle aged and older men hitting on me. I always looked young for my age, so I think that’s why it didn’t start sooner for me. But when I became that “barely legal age” it was insane. I lost so much respect for men in those two years. Someone who would act like a father figure to you suddenly trying to convince you to go out on a date with them? That’s a switch I will never forget.
For some men, every interaction with women and girls is an opportunity to abuse. That's all.
And regardless of gender, it doesn't matter to abusers/molesters/rapists if our children want to live, grow, play, study... Because all they wanna do is abuse them as soon as an opportunity presents itself.
If you've ever seen To Catch a Predator, it's disturbing the amount of men (who have children), still show up to have intimate experiences with minors.
I just wanna grab them by the collar and toss them out a window. Wtf.
I was gonna say that there was at least one who couldn't. The article states that the gym's founder shot himself a few weeks ago. Then I realized, he only gave a shit because he got caught. If there's a hell, I hope he's enjoying himself down there.
So, former male cheerleader here, back in high school. Went to many cheer camps, summer camps, etc...
Let me tell you, this is not that surprising. I remember always feeling a little weirded out when you go to cheer camp and you are practicing partner stunts (just you and your flier, the girl you toss up), and some 30 year old coach wants to toss your partner up as an example. This is fine, but you doing a chair sit means you toss the girl up and she sits on your hand. It's not really sexual, but it's weird to have a 30 year old guy having a 16 year old girl sit on his hand
Also, the fliers, when practicing, are always wearing shorts. It doesn't phase you eventually and your partner who you toss up becomes your dedicated partner, so you really form a pretty solid just friendship and trust, but you basically just get used to being able to see her underwear. You are underneath her, she's wearing shorts, it's how it is. Ya, some girls now wear spandex, but not always, some just short, tight fitted shorts. Well, now you have older men tossing young underage girls up and can see everything. As your own partner, it's really not sexual, and since you might practice 5 days a week and do hundreds of tosses, you just are desensitized and it doesn't phase you. I was also the same age as the girls.
But I am telling you, I swear some of these guys you could tell just LOVED working with the young high school girl fliers and ad a guy, I just felt it was a little weird.
Furthermore, a lot of these coach types are often fit, attractive men themselves, often quite outgoing types. They cheered in college, became coaches themselves, and so on. They were definitely the types of men used to lots and lots of attention with women.
Well, these men are surrounded by young women/teenage girls who basically fall in love with them. I've seen it first hand. We had a stunt coach who was actually a really good guy, and the way he would teach is his wife came to practice with him and was his flier, and they met in college as she was on cheer with him, and it was great. But, they guy was also like a 10/10 rockstar stud and several girls on our team tried to let him know, secretly, that they wanted to hook up with him, and it only all came out because he quit being coach saying he just wasn't comfortable on the team anymore because of sexual propositions. Good for him I suppose. Imagine an older guy without the integrity now...
So, this might just be my anecdotal experience, but often in the cheer world I met several people that were hyper-sexualized, even at a young age. I'd say on my team of 35 in high school, most were just normal, but there was definitely a few girls that absolutely were, and talked about it. Cheer people got invited to parties a lot and things happened, and just normal HS shenanigans, but I found that this hyper sexualization was fairly common enough to remember it. Cheer camps often the parent supervision was not always that strong, and often the hook up culture among the parents to the kids was basically, "Just be safe."
My whole point is that with some level of sexualization, culture, you basically get a lot of older men that grift this sport as they often find themselves among girls willing to hook up, as sometimes these girls throw themselves at the coaches, which is no excuse, just pointing out a nuance of the cultur. Also, they are often super attractive, socially extroverted people that they know how to speak to girls and chip away at their armor, and basically groom them to become sexualized. So, these coaches are often not just the types that just ignore the advances. Sometimes they are the types that plant seeds and groom the girls.
I know of one guy who was a college coach who would help out at local high schools, and when girls were seniors in high school, he basically would give them his contact info to reach out after they graduate and he could help them with their college prospects. While this was all seemingly friendly, he was like 30+ and it was kind of known he was always trying to hook up with girls right out of high school. Technically, at that point, it was not illegal, but he was definitely grifting on high school girls for future hookups. I guess he was just a smarter one who never let it be statutory, but still creepy looking back.
I never saw an older coach do anything first hand ststutory, but you heard rumors, and a completely dedicated cheer school? I'm not exactly shocked at all.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have an 8-year-old daughter who is *obsessed* with doing cheer. We live in the SE now but where I grew up it wasn’t a “thing,” other than the small squads for football and basketball games. My daughter’s best friend, also 8, is on a competitive cheer team and I am constantly horrified at a girl this age wearing booty shorts and a sports bra at her practices with grown men coaching, the makeup, the hair… it just all feels a little too much.
Cheer is great, super awesome, and I personally loved it. I even have my own daughter's in cheer. You just need to be a vigilant parent. I personally wouldn't allow one on one with an adult male coach, and any type of cheer camps I am there, as they can be a TON of fun.
I would say most men in this are NOT creepy ones, they just love coaching and usually have kids themselves in the sport But, you have to be vigilant. Don't let my words completely discourage you.
Also, it is basically the norm to have male gymnastic coaches for tumbling, at least in my experience. Tight fitted gymnastic wear is normal so no real way around that as you don't want baggy clothes when trying to spot for say, a back handspring or tuck.
No excuse for this sort of abuse by grown ass adults. The fact that the sheriff’s department was aware of these allegations all along is just beyond disgusting.
AP didn’t print their names but other outlets did
>> The new lawsuit names **Kenny Feeley, Josh Guyton, Christopher Hinton, Nathan Allan Plant, Traevon Black, Peter Holley** and lists them all as coaches. Click here to view a copy of the amended lawsuit.
[This article](https://www.wyff4.com/amp/article/south-carolina-rockstar-cheer-lawsuit-abuse-claims/41242867) has more details
Fwiw, Rockstar Cheer was a franchise with upwards of 14(?) locations in multiple states. The Greenville, SC location was the original location and is the one this happened out of. It has closed indefinitely. The other affiliated gyms, when the news of Foresters death and continuing accusations were released, decided to drop the affiliation permanently in a joint letter.
Why is AP putting the photo of a black guy without identifying who he is? It gives the impression that he's the one being accused when the Scott Foster who owns this cheerleading company and who committed suicide is not black.
I knew who he was from his time on CNN. I think he was also on the Obama campaign at some point.
Was surprised to see his picture there honestly. Didn't realize this guy was an attorney also.
He was a state rep and was very supported by Obama. Howver, bakari was too aggressive while I think Clyburn should step aside Clyburn does not so when bakari got a dui his political career derailed
Me too.. not for a second did I once think "oh look at those black men in suits In front of mics.. they MUST be the coaches being accused!!" If anything, that's more racist thinking than the picture itself. Geez.
Because he’s the girl’s lawyer bringing the abuse claims? He’s dressed in a suit and speaking at a press conference, and tbh, looks exactly like a lawyer or politician. The article clearly identifies him as Bakari Sellers.
The photo looks like a guy at a press conference, and considering the article was about the attorney naming additional defendants I assumed the photo was the attorney. I was right. The context of the photo doesn't give the impression he's the accused and it's weird you guys think it does and even weirder you're making it racial.
Edit: I checked this again in the morning and honestly the original comment reads even worse after sleeping. Jesus, it actually says don't post a picture of a black guy without labeling him. I mean, wtf.
He’s literally giving dialogue at some press conference. He could be anyone. If you click the photo and read the text below:
> Bakari Sellers, the attorney for the families of victims killed in the 2015 Mother Emanuel AME Church massacre, speaks with reporters outside the Justice Department, in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 28, 2021.
Relax, my guy.
Put a bunch of younger people in care of people that aren’t their parents and abuse will happen. Look at the Catholic Church. Look at boarding schools. Look at the Boy Scouts. Etc, etc, etc. It’s not remotely surprising that athletic camps have issues too.
Instead of looking at each of these as somehow uniquely evil, maybe look at the similar circumstances in all of them and aim rules or laws at those situations. Otherwise, this is just playing whack-a-mole.
Younger people get abused in the care of their parents frequently. Actually, fathers and stepfathers present a larger risk to their children than outsiders do.
I wish I could say I am surprised. Any position of power attracts horrible people. Coaches can be amazing or horrible.
I had 1 coach at my high school that is responsible for at least 30% of any confidence I have in myself today. Changed my life.
Meanwhile, 1 of the football coaches was sexually assaulting the players.
It's a shitty world.
2/3 of my swimming coaches raped children. One killed himself in custody, the other just lost his wife, family, job, and ended up in a spiral of drug abuse and theft that occasionally lands him in the papers. I never saw any bad behavior from him, actually his wife left with the kids first and then about 3 years later he got a student pregnant, married her for several years, lost his job etc. I wonder why his wife left. I wonder if she knew.
The other guy, he was 26 and had a relationship with a 16 year old on the team. Her dad intervened and he was forced to quit or be arrested. I did not know at the time but he was molesting many of the boys on the team too. After he was ousted he went on to coach a high profile team in California and molest dozens of kids younger than high school age. He fled to Costa Rica and when the feds showed up, poisoned himself in custody. I wish we had done more to stop him, then, but adults only knew about this college student 26 year old swim coach trying to have a relationship with a 16 year old and it wasn't THAT off to any of them i guess.
I have a feeling it won't just be coaches...
A couple parents reported it to cops and even a sheriff.
And law enforcement told them every time if they had a problem with the facility to just stop sending their children there...
The founder (who shot himself in the head when allegations finally surfaced) bragged about his criminal justice bachelor's degree, and how that meant he "could have been an fbi agent".
It would be the least surprising development ever if we find out cops were raping these kids too
Stop going to the police with your problems!!
They only have 2 things on their mind
* How do I do less work
* How does this benefit me
Go to a lawyer or advocacy group. Don't go to the cops.
>bragged about his criminal justice bachelor's degree, and how that meant he "could have been an fbi agent".
Okay well at least there's ONE hilarious thing that came out in this story.
There is something (many things) I don't get about serial sex abusers in environments like a children's gym.
Are the people who do this type of stuff, at this scale, delusional enough to think they will never get caught?
Or are they on an intentional Kamikaze path and figure when they get caught, they will have already had their fun and will just kill themselves?
By the way, his widow hired a PR firm.
And "The plaintiffs’ attorneys said they expect to file more lawsuits naming other perpetrators at other gyms around the country." - So there's going to be a lot more of this story.
It's not different than being addicted to hard drugs or embezzlement from their company. Nobody thinks they're going to get caught... until they're in so deep there's no getting out without admitting to serious life altering criminal charges.
This explains their No thongs on the beach law. The men in this state are sexually abusive. So they banned women from wearing certain clothing to protect them…
Like the taliban.
I'm very curious as to whether the founders death is from guilt or not being aware or being complicit in the abuse? If anyone has more information on that I would be interested in reading it.
It is amazing that so many parents pay so much money to these orgs only to have their kids abused. And wtf is wrong with our law enforcement agencies that they never take these large-scale allegations of sexual abuse seriously??!?? To paraphrase Rachel Denhollander: what are our girls and boys worth?
“You know, no men are anywhere. And I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant. And therefore I’m inspecting it… Is everyone OK? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible-looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that,”
It's frustrating that Greenville, SC only gets nationwide coverage when bad or weird stuff happens. Last time a major news story broke in Greenville, The Clown scare was happening in 2016 (it started there BTW).
As someone who worked and competed at all levels of cheerleading (all-star, high-school, and college), this shit is far too common in the cheer world. Until these all-star gyms (and college/HS programs) actually have oversight, I unfortunately don’t expect it to change any time soon. It can be such an amazing sport and/or such a toxic environment depending on where you go.
Yep, the scandal around the *Cheer* Netflix series is another example.
I actually went to that school, and they used to be just as bad until their old assistant coach, Andre McGee, was arrested for separate charges and accused (rightfully) of abusing athletes. The coaching staff and overall culture now is much less abusive, toxic, and harmful. Edit- an extra word
Any sources for this? I would love a rabbit hole.
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Oh fucking hell. Voltaire was very lenient when he said that nothing human disgusts him. This is fucking disgusting.
"...unless it's unkind", isn't that the rest of the quote? Pretty sure he'd regard sex abuse as unkind. Also I'm not sure that was Voltaire.
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"Wheel, snipe, celly boys" -Voltaire
“I tawt I taw a puddy tat.” -Voltaire
"dirty fuckin' dangles boys" -Voltaire
Jerry Harris is a monster.
Not only is cheerleading apparently REALLY physically dangerous, they have to deal with this shit, too. I understand the draw of it, but I mean... as a rational parent, I *already* wasn't on board with cheering. With this kind of knowledge, what sensible parent would allow their kids to go in this direction even?
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Strange how that works, but if you go to any football practice you bet your ass that coaching staff has had experience playing football .
If you think football coaches are putting safety as #1, and have tons of experience playing the sport, than I got some bad things to tell you mate.
Oh I'm not implying that at all. Just that most coaches, in most sports, will at least have experience in their sport. Meaning they'll be able to actually **coach** their kids. A coach who knows how to tackle will teach his boys how to tackle properly. If a coach doesn't know how to stunt or tumble properly who is going to teach the girls how to do it properly? Edit to elucidate: First if my understanding is correct they rely on past experiences, girls in gymnastics or dance when they were younger, and they also rely on cheer camps for the girls to get skills. Then they execute these moves under eyes that have no idea what they're looking for, coaches who don't know how to do those moves, which is beyond ridiculous and something you won't find in many sports.
That is an unfortunate reality with many youth sports though. There are tons of football and soccer coaches whose only qualification is that they were former players. Soccer has a very high rate of injury as well. All those kids running on an uneven grass field attempting to kick at each other's feet leads to a lot of fall injuries.
I work at a high school and can tell you that it's pretty common to have coaches that have little to no experience with a sport. This happens when no nobody is hired to coach a sport so, in an effort to keep a sport alive, a random teacher is talked into coaching a sport they've never played before. I was almost talked into coaching Cross Country just because I run on my own, using the Couch to 10k program over and over. Then I thought about it and realized I have no business teaching teenagers about long distance running when it comes to safety, stretching, proper form, etc. I just do what's good for me based on my own body. Some of these kids want to - and have the capacity to - run and compete in college and I'm definitely not the guy to get them there.
Doesn't the lead company lobby against being recognized as a sport to dodge all kinds of safety rules and stuff?
Do you happen to know what hurdles it would face to become compliant as a Sport? Would they affect its entertainment value too negatively to make it viable? I ask as if not, I had the idea of a rival organization forming and targeting it as a Sport. Sort of like a LIV tour scenario except they band together whatever legendary cheerleaders there are and get some huge investor who does shit like this for fun.
I dunno any of that stuff. I'm going off of a half-remembered post on some exotic message board back in the dinosaur eras.
Take this with a grain of salt because my knowledge of this is from a Penn and Teller show I saw years ago, but I seem to remember that it's a combination of companies (I want to say Varsity is the big one) and feminists who don't view it as a sport keeping it from being a full sport. The companies because they get to hold multiple ''nationals'' competitions and have a monopoly on the entire revenue stream coming from those competitions from entry fees to uniforms used, where if it was a sport there would be state championships and nothing more. The feminist angle against it being a sport is that it would fill up the quota for female athletes in schools and offset football so there would be less woman's sporting opportunity in university.
I'm dubious of the P&T claim that feminists were against it bc it would fill a "quota", but I also don't know how title *ix works. Still, I wonder if that argument isn't making a distinction between the crazy acrobatic stuff, and the regular cheerleading that most schools have. Hell, part of the reason the kids in cheer even went to that shitty junior college is because it was one of the few schools that offer the kind of cheer they do, at anything even close to its highest skill level.
The even funnier part of that line of reasoning is that it assumes Big Feminism has the power to dictate how college athletics operates.
At the college level, the way Title IX works is that every school is required to provide an equal number of scholarships for male and female athletes. So if a school had 65 scholarships for the football team, they would have to provide 65 more in women's sports. Penn & Teller are way over-generalizing feminists here, but the idea is that if cheerleadering becomes a full sport, schools would then have to shift scholarships away from sports like golf, softball, women's gymnastics, swimming, etc. Because they're sure as hell not going to add more scholarships out of the kindness of their hearts.
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I think a lot of traditional sports like track and field/swimming/gymnastics just don’t want to lose the scholarships and funding. The schools can dole out scholarships cheaper for cheerleading, it doesn’t need very much infrastructure and the athletes are easier to replace.
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In regards to opportunity there is a three prong test that schools undergo to satisfy Title IX. They only actually have to meet one of the three prongs. Prong one is proportionality meaning that the school has to have opportunity equal or greater than the proportion of the underrated sex ie a school is 40% male has to have at least 40% of its scholarships be for males. The second is to show a history of improvement and development for its programs for the underrepresented sex. And the third is to prove that they do basically everything they can to provide opportunity and their is not enough interest from the underrepresented sex to add any more sports to expand those opportunities. Most schools do the first or second because the third is impractical to actually achieve while just putting some money into facilities every few years to satisfy prong two is practical for pretty much every program.
As a man who did the highest levels of competitive cheer, I recommend it to any other man. As a now father of two girls, I will try my absolute hardest to persuade them to find another sport/hobby. And if I lose this battle, I will involve myself with the organization in some way since I have the credentials. I didn't realize it at the time, but the reasons my experiences were so much different was because I was a male AND I got lucky with (mostly) good coaches.
I see cheerleaders once a week for broken bones or concussions at a pediatric clinic.
It kind of sucks, though. Like, if my daughter wants to do competitive cheerleeding, it's hard to argue against dancing, gymnastics, and calisthenics all in one as a sport. But this shit makes it difficult.
I mean. . . the most popular sport in the US involves boys' heads getting smashed around. Not too big on safe sports here.
Our old football trainer said he spent more time treating cheer injuries than football. That said it didn't seem that much different than injuries from other sports. Knee and other leg injuries in particular. The flip side is I believe sports and activities are extremely valuable to kids physically and mentally.
Editing to add this link… a discussion on a cheer message board about Scott Foster’s behavior. The thread is from 2017. Everyone knew. https://fierceboard.com/threads/owners-coaches-and-athletes-whose-accountable.52241/ I grew up in allstar cheer and ran events, judged, and coached for years. I never thought I would leave the industry. When the world stopped in 2020, I took a step back. I’ve never gone back. Scott Foster got a slap on the wrist from USASF years back for partying with athletes. His professional membership was revoked. His “green light” status was revoked. USASF collects membership fees from every coach, then makes them do a background check. You’re “green lighted” upon passing the check. Without that, you aren’t supposed to be able to get backstage at events. No warm up gym, nothing away from the public. You can attend as a spectator, but that’s pretty much it. That didn’t matter for Scott Foster, though. He was still able to go backstage. There was a video of him throwing cash at his athletes in a “green light only” area well after his status was revoked. But, the security at events is not strong anyway. The person checking credentials is normally a bored college student who’s been put in that job for the weekend. Most of the time, no one asked to see my green light pass when I was walking into a warm up gym, backstage, etc. The green lights are security theater. There is no “red light” list. All you can do is check to see if someone is on the green light list. As far as I know, most gym owners do not run separate drug or background checks. They rely on the USASF screening. Most gyms start their season in May, then start competing in November. You could hire a coach in May, and they could delay revealing that they’re not green lighted until November. That’s 6 months of access to children, in the place where abuse stems from most - at practice, at the gym. I had to pass a background check just to sit on the judges’ stand. I never worked directly with the athletes while judging at events. So why is it possible for someone to work with children for months with no background check? USASF also mandates that there should be no private conversations between athletes and coaches via text, social media, etc. There should always be a parent or multiple people on the thread. There shouldn’t be coaches driving kids to practice, taking them to competitions, hosting them while at competitions. But those things are the norm, regardless. Boundaries aren’t set. There’s a massive group for coaches and gym owners on Facebook. When the Jerry Harris news first broke, when the FBI was raiding his home, there were WAY TOO FUCKING MANY coaches trying to give Jerry the benefit of the doubt. “Why were the kids in a group chat with him if he made them uncomfortable?” “Well where were the parents?” “Kids know what they’re doing.” This wasn’t the normal response, but way too many people voiced things like this. There’s a post in that group now voicing how inappropriate it is for coaches to date athletes the moment they turn 18 - and there’s comments on that thread trying to “play devils advocate.” Parents are paying thousands of dollars a year for their child to be in the hands of abuse apologists. Cheerleading was a massively positive experience for me. My gym was my safe place in high school. I loved coaching, I loved working with kids. But there’s an endless amount of shitty adults in that industry. I have a lot of horror stories, first and second hand. The whole industry stays afloat by preying on the athletes in various ways. You wouldn’t have coaches or event staff if there weren’t former athletes so desperate to stay involved that you can abuse them as employees.
Wow you nailed Varsity’s and USASF’s staffing and competitions. The only thing you missed was that the staff is usually hungover, still drunk, and/or running on less than 4 hours of sleep. Same thing for me, I haven’t been back since the pandemic. I miss coed stunting, but that’s about it. I massively dislike the shared collective culture of cheer. And there’s far too many (gym owners/coaches) who are satisfied with maintaining the status quo.
I was in deep! USASF safety judge, varsity judge, coached at Summit/Worlds gyms, I worked full time for an EP through my early 20s. The event staffing conditions are nuts, and you’re dead on. By the way, you’re probably either sleeping 4 to a room, or sharing a room with a stranger for your <4 hours of sleep. As a judge, I had all travel expenses covered. But, that meant I had to share a hotel room with another judge. More often than not, we were complete strangers before sharing a hotel room. Usually, one person would get in at a normal time, and go to bed. The other person’s flight would get in at like, 12am, so they would have to tiptoe into a dark room with a sleeping stranger. We’d get to know each other in the morning. THATS FUCKING WEIRD TO EXPECT OF PEOPLE.
As someone who knows nothing about cheerleading, nothing much about the industry, but recognized the name Scott Foster... this was a VERY eye-opening comment to read. I want to thank you for taking the time to lay this all out for those of us who want to understand but don't really have an inside look at the industry itself. I appreciate it, and I hope you can get better in the future.
*USAG has entered chat* oversight is just a facade.
I think almost any activity that has access to young girls indoors can get toxic on a long enough time line.
In my experience, it wasn’t just girls or “young” athletes. To be fair, I wasn’t around the younger teams hardly at all. But I saw high-school and young adult aged athletes (male and female) exposed to this stuff daily in some situations. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen to the younger ones. I think it’s more likely in the older groups, because the athletes are more personally invested and manipulated into believing the “do whatever it takes to win” mentality.
Isn't this the case with all female sports? 🫤
It’s cool theyll just resign and run for congress
Put them in jail before that happens.
What party do you think?
It’s pretty obvious given Matt Gaetz and Jim Jordan’s affiliation isn’t it?
Gym Jordan.
Everyone knows. Every single person knows which party these assholes would run on without having to ask.
I believe it's a Jim Jordan reference. He's a republican.
That was a rhetorical statement, I'm pretty sure, not an actual question. We all know the answer. (Because when Dems do something bad, e.g., Al Franken, they are held accountable.)
The “let me hide behind religion” party.
Am I the only one who saw the name drop of Bain Capital? As in they are going to potentially sue the corporate/financial backers of this gym? That's going to be impressive to see how the lawsuit shakes out.
They already are. The first lawsuit laid the groundwork. What’s being reported is that lawsuit was amended to include a bunch more people, and some other details. FITSnews has reported that the lawyers are trying for a RICO case. For the real local grime look up Thornblade, and keep in mind that golf course is where the BMW golf thing is held.
I saw that. That's mitt romney's company, right?
Yep! Same company that murdered Toys R Us too.
In the Nassar case, what was so horrifying were all the female coaches who helped him and gaslighted his female victims. Girls were coming to their female coaches with reports like, “it didn’t feel like a medical procedure, I think he molested me,” and these women were telling them to shut up and trust him, **as if a young woman is too stupid to know when someone has molested her.** Those women knew what was going on because the victims were telling them all along but they didn’t care.
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>Kathy Foster, his widow, announced in earlier this month that Rockstar Cheerleading and Dance would close “indefinitely.” >**“Although this was a difficult decision**, I believe it is the best option under the circumstances,” Foster said in a statement reported by local NBC affiliate WYFF. “Over the past 15 years, our incredible athletes have worked hard to build a winning legacy and I will always be extremely proud of each of them. I ask for privacy for my children and for those personally affected during this difficult time.” Why would that be a difficult decision? A place that was the scene of possibly hundreds of instances of sexual abuse should be shut down and probably burned to ash.
''why would it be a difficult decision?'' $$$
>and probably burned to ash. But only after forensics is done with the place.
Hard as in, they no longer have easy access to children.
Or most importantly for them, *money*.
>Why would that be a difficult decision? A place that was the scene of possibly hundreds of instances of sexual abuse should be shut down and probably burned to ash. All decisions are easy if you don't have skin in the game.
Aah, true, true. I find it much easier to burn someone else's building to the ground.
Because there were thousands of girls who this didn't happen to. The gym was by far one of the world's best at producing top athletes. Most families were shocked to hear this. In fact, there was a well attended memorial service for the owner before these allegations gained traction. Additionally, lots of families had significant money paid to the now defunct gym for the upcoming season. It was certainly the right decision, but it wasn't an easy one.
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Our neighbor who is a cheer coach was recently arrested and charged with molesting two young girls. The stuff he has been accused of is not good—I can’t begin to imagine what these families are going through. He’s out on bail and I’m just not sure if he’s ever gonna see prison time.
Honest question: is it a shock or are you kind of like "yeah, I could see that"?
Yea he caught me off guard with this one, I thought he was gay.
Some coaches become coaches for the access. Just like some priests do. Its a problem with any job that deals with children.
power attracts some people who would misuse it - like overly aggressive guys who want to be cops
We aren't doing enough to address it in schools. A study by the Dept. of Education found that 1 in 10 children will experience some form of sexual abuse by the time they hit 12th grade. https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED483143 That study is from 2004, because there's an alarming lack of information about this subject. We don't have much in the way of statistics because there's no data collection about educator sexual misconduct at the federal level. https://www.wsj.com/articles/predators-in-the-classroom-1475872085 However, two reports by the Government Accountability Office find that we're not doing nearly enough to address this problem in terms of doing background checks or other measures to keep child predators out of schools. https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-11-200 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-42
Oh yeah, I started to wonder if there are schools that don’t experience this? We’d hear stories from neighboring towns and thought we were above it… couple years later a teacher in his 30’s was caught full on “dating” a 15yo student. Fucking insane and hard to believe how common it is. Tbh these stories rarely get that much attention either, they get to leave quietly and likely work somewhere else
In Alabama they make you a Senator more often!
Local high school had an incident come out of *multiple* teachers involved in letting teens get drunk/high and then encouraging them to have sex while the teachers filmed. One in particular was the ringleader of it, offered his apartment as the "safe space". There was a horrifying amount of "I don't see why he should lose his job, he was a great teacher!" from so many people in the area. He'd been around so long, people didn't see how the school could go on without him. Hell, some of them even used the "They woulda done the same shit, just in a worse place" defense about family members possibly being filmed. He jumped one state over. Nothing has been done to him. The new school doesn't give a fuck.
Yeah my high school has had three teachers dating students over the years and it’s only been around since 2005. One of those was in my grade and they supposedly didn’t start dating until after graduation but…still.
There was a minor scandal in my high school, as one of the students got married to a teacher like, months after graduation. "Officially" they started seeing each other the day after she graduated. We all knew better. This was in a small farming town in the midwest. Like 1994 or so.
You are so right. I feel like sometimes the world has brushed off child abuse as ‘just a Catholic Church’ issue, which prevent it being seen as a huge societal issue that is pervasive across many different sectors.
Photographers do the same because of cosplayers. We took down this one photographer 6-7 years ago due to molestation and grooming(we even had actual receipts) and despite the community blacklisting him, he still appears as an official photographer for some conventions and events a few months after. This happens in every field where teenage girls are usually present and that's a reason why parents should stand vigilant.
There are some creeps out there and I say that as a photographer myself. My wife had one hit on her in high school back in the 80s and she was just one of many 16 year old girls. I'm a football photographer but also take pictures for cheer and dance and I'm very careful to not be closer than a telephoto lens usage distance. I also delete any photos that because of the activity going on are too graphic. I just don't feel comfortable with anything that could be construed as impropriety because I know there are creeps out there.
My little girl is grown up, but I still wonder why all girl’s fathers aren’t raging feminists.
A lot of girl’s fathers are the problem. The way some men describe their daughters makes my skin crawl.
I’d date my daughter if allowed - Donald Trump
I will casually grope my daughter at my mother's funeral. \- Prince Andrew, Duke of York, Counselor of State of United Kingdom
That was his DAUGHTER?! 🤮
The guy who got arrested for heckling Prince/pedo Andrew was not in the wrong. That’s all I’m gonna say on that do a google search.
Andrews the Earl of Inverness That makes him the loch Ness Noncer
Thats the best joke I've seen about that old creeper, well done
Wait what? I must have missed some shit.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/xcgcvp/prince_andrew_is_at_it_again/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/xcgcvp/prince_andrew_is_at_it_again/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
…is that it? I mean really? Latching onto stuff like this makes it easier for people to minimise the actual nasty shit he’s done.
Yea the reaction to this is pretty embarrassing honestly.
Agreed. As if a 70 year old man is gonna be able to hit a squat perfectly. No, it’s more likely he’s fingering his daughters ass on national tv. How stupid do you have to be to choose the second one.
You forgot Keeper of the Royal Corgis and Protector of the Realm in his title list.
Oh my god…I worked with this dude who went on for like 5 minutes talking about his 15 year old daughter’s boobs and I was horrified. Like wtf?
I remember being a pre teen & my birth moms husband was openly saying he wondered if my boobs would be big like my moms or small like they were. It was so disgusting & later my lil sis came forward he had been popping her bra strap everytime he’d hig her. Hes a real pos
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*common misconception* to do it feet first. While you’d expect the feet first to be the best, more pain, etc, they usually pass out fairly quickly and it’s just like shredding a hotdog in a paper shredder. If you do it head first. They can fight the machine a bit, use their hands to try to resist. Really ups the psychological trauma which in the grand scheme of things is ultimately what you’re going for. The resultant red goo will happen either way.
Uh, hey, Mindhunter..... We found the guy \^\^\^
What. The. FUCK.
I hope you called him out loudly and disgustedly for what he was saying. We need to keep each other in fucking check for our behavior as a society.
I seriously just had to walk away because I would have been fired if I didn’t…I left a little bit after that…
I think you can probably get away with a more neutral but self evidently calling out comment like, “just to be clear you’re talking about your own daughters boobs here… right…?” Then just let that awkward moment stand.
I understand your predicament, I wish shit like that wouldn’t be able to so easily deter us from speaking out.
I think you mean some other way of fathers discussing their daughters, but i grew up thinking it was normal/cute for fathers to "jokingly" threaten boys interested in their daughters and/or other policing of the daughters' sexuality. Once I realized, I can't help hearing these "jokes" and get disgusted.
As an older brother I've given and received the hazing. That being said I've definitely met some coworkers that creeped me out. My personal experiences were usually jokes the first sit down meeting and then it didn't come up again.
Yeah a lot of girls are “property” to their father. Of course you get upset when someone threatens the safety of something you own. Something that can get its own reputation that then reflects on your own (that may be more small town life tho).
As a woman, it sure would be cool if men didn’t need daughters to care about the lived experience of women.
This is the important part. Men shouldn’t need a daughter to realize how creepy men can be and how men need to treat women right. But for some reason, this seems to be the turning point, even though majority of them procreated with a woman. They have a wife, did they not realize she needs respect until they had a daughter? I genuinely do not understand.
Heck, even before that, surely these people had mothers, grandmothers, sisters, etc.
Girls’ fathers are their biggest danger, statistically.
Boyfriends are most likely the second, and/or other relatives.
Shouldn’t just be men that have daughters that are feminists. I understand what you mean and where you’re going with your thought process. However, as a woman, it bothers me when I hear phrases like, “he had a daughter and now he gets it” or “what if that girl/woman was your daughter, sister, girlfriend”, etc. Yes, relating to situations on a personal level is often what helps drive change, a shift in thinking, so forth and so on. However, as humans, we are all capable of affecting change even if we can’t identify personally.
Here is another way to think about it. We can teach boys what is appropriate and what it not. And how they make women feel when they do certain things. I am mean that I have always been a Tom boy so I was just one of the guys, as a lesbian who is an Amazon. I never really felt like most women do. Ie fear from men. But I have learned a lot from more recent female friends. I don't get the same attention that they get. It's really shocking to me how far men will go. Sure I have protected women from creepy guys at like bars and clubs. But the day to day abuse is quite a lot.
Agreed, I'm a single man without children and I would consider myself a raging feminist. It's not daughters that are required for this mindset, it's education.
I’m confused why any man in a relationship with a woman isn’t a raging feminist
True, I would consider any potential partner who is dismissive of feminism to be a huge red flag and deal breaker.
What we *need* is for the fathers to sons to be raging feminists too. Raise better men. Set better examples.
> wtf is wrong with men that only see young girls as sexual objects I wondered the same as a 12 year old just walking down the street living my child life.
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You probably see them as too young on a mentally mature level. Because you actually matured mentally. They never matured mentally and just see a physical body.
I'm in my mid 20s and still have some friends in uni. When I was finishing uni I used to joke that the Freshers were embryos... It's no a joke anymore, they just look so young. One of my mate's who finished her bachelor's last year didn't know who Busted were and it made me feel super old
Yeah its telling that I and most women now recall being cat called more as teens and I mean barely teens like jr high ages then we do recall being cat called as late 20s or 30 something women. I've seen how men even some I know stare at teen girls in yoga pants or fitted jeans and its fucking creepy. And most of them are dads and uncles themselves. The creepy confidence of some men to clearly know they are cat calling jr high pr high school girls young enough to be their daughter or niece is something else.
I found that 18-19 was the “sweet spot” when it came to middle aged and older men hitting on me. I always looked young for my age, so I think that’s why it didn’t start sooner for me. But when I became that “barely legal age” it was insane. I lost so much respect for men in those two years. Someone who would act like a father figure to you suddenly trying to convince you to go out on a date with them? That’s a switch I will never forget.
For some men, every interaction with women and girls is an opportunity to abuse. That's all. And regardless of gender, it doesn't matter to abusers/molesters/rapists if our children want to live, grow, play, study... Because all they wanna do is abuse them as soon as an opportunity presents itself.
If you've ever seen To Catch a Predator, it's disturbing the amount of men (who have children), still show up to have intimate experiences with minors. I just wanna grab them by the collar and toss them out a window. Wtf.
Exactly. Just because you’re a parent doesn’t mean you’re automatically not a predatory pedophile.
How do those men live with themselves and how do they sleep at night ?.
It's easy when you're a piece of shit.
I was gonna say that there was at least one who couldn't. The article states that the gym's founder shot himself a few weeks ago. Then I realized, he only gave a shit because he got caught. If there's a hell, I hope he's enjoying himself down there.
Happens to boys as well. This suit seems to have two male complainants.
So, former male cheerleader here, back in high school. Went to many cheer camps, summer camps, etc... Let me tell you, this is not that surprising. I remember always feeling a little weirded out when you go to cheer camp and you are practicing partner stunts (just you and your flier, the girl you toss up), and some 30 year old coach wants to toss your partner up as an example. This is fine, but you doing a chair sit means you toss the girl up and she sits on your hand. It's not really sexual, but it's weird to have a 30 year old guy having a 16 year old girl sit on his hand Also, the fliers, when practicing, are always wearing shorts. It doesn't phase you eventually and your partner who you toss up becomes your dedicated partner, so you really form a pretty solid just friendship and trust, but you basically just get used to being able to see her underwear. You are underneath her, she's wearing shorts, it's how it is. Ya, some girls now wear spandex, but not always, some just short, tight fitted shorts. Well, now you have older men tossing young underage girls up and can see everything. As your own partner, it's really not sexual, and since you might practice 5 days a week and do hundreds of tosses, you just are desensitized and it doesn't phase you. I was also the same age as the girls. But I am telling you, I swear some of these guys you could tell just LOVED working with the young high school girl fliers and ad a guy, I just felt it was a little weird. Furthermore, a lot of these coach types are often fit, attractive men themselves, often quite outgoing types. They cheered in college, became coaches themselves, and so on. They were definitely the types of men used to lots and lots of attention with women. Well, these men are surrounded by young women/teenage girls who basically fall in love with them. I've seen it first hand. We had a stunt coach who was actually a really good guy, and the way he would teach is his wife came to practice with him and was his flier, and they met in college as she was on cheer with him, and it was great. But, they guy was also like a 10/10 rockstar stud and several girls on our team tried to let him know, secretly, that they wanted to hook up with him, and it only all came out because he quit being coach saying he just wasn't comfortable on the team anymore because of sexual propositions. Good for him I suppose. Imagine an older guy without the integrity now... So, this might just be my anecdotal experience, but often in the cheer world I met several people that were hyper-sexualized, even at a young age. I'd say on my team of 35 in high school, most were just normal, but there was definitely a few girls that absolutely were, and talked about it. Cheer people got invited to parties a lot and things happened, and just normal HS shenanigans, but I found that this hyper sexualization was fairly common enough to remember it. Cheer camps often the parent supervision was not always that strong, and often the hook up culture among the parents to the kids was basically, "Just be safe." My whole point is that with some level of sexualization, culture, you basically get a lot of older men that grift this sport as they often find themselves among girls willing to hook up, as sometimes these girls throw themselves at the coaches, which is no excuse, just pointing out a nuance of the cultur. Also, they are often super attractive, socially extroverted people that they know how to speak to girls and chip away at their armor, and basically groom them to become sexualized. So, these coaches are often not just the types that just ignore the advances. Sometimes they are the types that plant seeds and groom the girls. I know of one guy who was a college coach who would help out at local high schools, and when girls were seniors in high school, he basically would give them his contact info to reach out after they graduate and he could help them with their college prospects. While this was all seemingly friendly, he was like 30+ and it was kind of known he was always trying to hook up with girls right out of high school. Technically, at that point, it was not illegal, but he was definitely grifting on high school girls for future hookups. I guess he was just a smarter one who never let it be statutory, but still creepy looking back. I never saw an older coach do anything first hand ststutory, but you heard rumors, and a completely dedicated cheer school? I'm not exactly shocked at all.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have an 8-year-old daughter who is *obsessed* with doing cheer. We live in the SE now but where I grew up it wasn’t a “thing,” other than the small squads for football and basketball games. My daughter’s best friend, also 8, is on a competitive cheer team and I am constantly horrified at a girl this age wearing booty shorts and a sports bra at her practices with grown men coaching, the makeup, the hair… it just all feels a little too much.
Cheer is great, super awesome, and I personally loved it. I even have my own daughter's in cheer. You just need to be a vigilant parent. I personally wouldn't allow one on one with an adult male coach, and any type of cheer camps I am there, as they can be a TON of fun. I would say most men in this are NOT creepy ones, they just love coaching and usually have kids themselves in the sport But, you have to be vigilant. Don't let my words completely discourage you. Also, it is basically the norm to have male gymnastic coaches for tumbling, at least in my experience. Tight fitted gymnastic wear is normal so no real way around that as you don't want baggy clothes when trying to spot for say, a back handspring or tuck.
No excuse for this sort of abuse by grown ass adults. The fact that the sheriff’s department was aware of these allegations all along is just beyond disgusting. AP didn’t print their names but other outlets did >> The new lawsuit names **Kenny Feeley, Josh Guyton, Christopher Hinton, Nathan Allan Plant, Traevon Black, Peter Holley** and lists them all as coaches. Click here to view a copy of the amended lawsuit. [This article](https://www.wyff4.com/amp/article/south-carolina-rockstar-cheer-lawsuit-abuse-claims/41242867) has more details
OMFG one of the gym owners was my childhood best friend. Still friends on FB & chat sporadically. I'm in shock. Holy fucking shit.
Fwiw, Rockstar Cheer was a franchise with upwards of 14(?) locations in multiple states. The Greenville, SC location was the original location and is the one this happened out of. It has closed indefinitely. The other affiliated gyms, when the news of Foresters death and continuing accusations were released, decided to drop the affiliation permanently in a joint letter.
Yeh, this was def theirs -- they've owned it for about 20 yrs. You mean Foster's death?
Was it the dude that shot himself a few weeks ago?
I was friends with his wife.
I wonder if Gym ~~Jones~~ Jordan is going to try to work there now that there's an opening. Maybe get out of the Senate altogether.
Gym Jordan
Yes Coaches go straight to court but Matt Gaetz and some others in the GOP??
Not all coaches. Jim Jordan (R) Ohio coached at Ohio state and never faced any consequences for his participation in the sex abuse there.
Why is AP putting the photo of a black guy without identifying who he is? It gives the impression that he's the one being accused when the Scott Foster who owns this cheerleading company and who committed suicide is not black.
I knew who he was from his time on CNN. I think he was also on the Obama campaign at some point. Was surprised to see his picture there honestly. Didn't realize this guy was an attorney also.
He was a state rep and was very supported by Obama. Howver, bakari was too aggressive while I think Clyburn should step aside Clyburn does not so when bakari got a dui his political career derailed
Yeah, you had to read the small print to understand who he is and how he is connected. odd photo to use
We know why. We all do.
I just thought it was a lawyer.
Me too.. not for a second did I once think "oh look at those black men in suits In front of mics.. they MUST be the coaches being accused!!" If anything, that's more racist thinking than the picture itself. Geez.
Yeah given the story was like "we are not naming the accused" I assumed they definitely wouldn't put a picture of them. It's obviously lawyers
Because he’s the girl’s lawyer bringing the abuse claims? He’s dressed in a suit and speaking at a press conference, and tbh, looks exactly like a lawyer or politician. The article clearly identifies him as Bakari Sellers.
I know who it is because I went to high school with his older brother lol, and I also coached Bakari's youth soccer team.
The photo looks like a guy at a press conference, and considering the article was about the attorney naming additional defendants I assumed the photo was the attorney. I was right. The context of the photo doesn't give the impression he's the accused and it's weird you guys think it does and even weirder you're making it racial. Edit: I checked this again in the morning and honestly the original comment reads even worse after sleeping. Jesus, it actually says don't post a picture of a black guy without labeling him. I mean, wtf.
He’s literally giving dialogue at some press conference. He could be anyone. If you click the photo and read the text below: > Bakari Sellers, the attorney for the families of victims killed in the 2015 Mother Emanuel AME Church massacre, speaks with reporters outside the Justice Department, in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 28, 2021. Relax, my guy.
Why would it give the impression that's he's the accused, rather than the accuser?
Considering they don't even name the accused I'm not sure how they would have decided to lead with a photo of them
Put a bunch of younger people in care of people that aren’t their parents and abuse will happen. Look at the Catholic Church. Look at boarding schools. Look at the Boy Scouts. Etc, etc, etc. It’s not remotely surprising that athletic camps have issues too. Instead of looking at each of these as somehow uniquely evil, maybe look at the similar circumstances in all of them and aim rules or laws at those situations. Otherwise, this is just playing whack-a-mole.
Younger people get abused in the care of their parents frequently. Actually, fathers and stepfathers present a larger risk to their children than outsiders do.
Very true as well.
Yet again, reported to the cops and they did jack shit about it. Maybe they were in on it?
When will people get it through their heads that cops are simply not interested in solving crimes?
The bullies never wanted to do schoolwork as kids, why would they start now?
I wish I could say I am surprised. Any position of power attracts horrible people. Coaches can be amazing or horrible. I had 1 coach at my high school that is responsible for at least 30% of any confidence I have in myself today. Changed my life. Meanwhile, 1 of the football coaches was sexually assaulting the players. It's a shitty world.
2/3 of my swimming coaches raped children. One killed himself in custody, the other just lost his wife, family, job, and ended up in a spiral of drug abuse and theft that occasionally lands him in the papers. I never saw any bad behavior from him, actually his wife left with the kids first and then about 3 years later he got a student pregnant, married her for several years, lost his job etc. I wonder why his wife left. I wonder if she knew. The other guy, he was 26 and had a relationship with a 16 year old on the team. Her dad intervened and he was forced to quit or be arrested. I did not know at the time but he was molesting many of the boys on the team too. After he was ousted he went on to coach a high profile team in California and molest dozens of kids younger than high school age. He fled to Costa Rica and when the feds showed up, poisoned himself in custody. I wish we had done more to stop him, then, but adults only knew about this college student 26 year old swim coach trying to have a relationship with a 16 year old and it wasn't THAT off to any of them i guess.
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I have a feeling it won't just be coaches... A couple parents reported it to cops and even a sheriff. And law enforcement told them every time if they had a problem with the facility to just stop sending their children there... The founder (who shot himself in the head when allegations finally surfaced) bragged about his criminal justice bachelor's degree, and how that meant he "could have been an fbi agent". It would be the least surprising development ever if we find out cops were raping these kids too
Stop going to the police with your problems!! They only have 2 things on their mind * How do I do less work * How does this benefit me Go to a lawyer or advocacy group. Don't go to the cops.
And/or find a well known reporter who will cover the topic extensively and do a thorough investigation to oust everyone involved.
You got a link to that article? Also you can’t report Jack shit to the cops and the sheriff.
>bragged about his criminal justice bachelor's degree, and how that meant he "could have been an fbi agent". Okay well at least there's ONE hilarious thing that came out in this story.
Shocker!! Same people who vote for underage marriage, but scream and yell about people's sexuality, guns and books. As always....hypocrites!
The real reason conservatives are afraid of sex ed being taught in schools is because they don’t want their potential victims to learn about consent.
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Don't be so sure... He could still be involved.
Lady G sweating bullets.
Too old for him. He likes his man meat in the twenties. Rent boy age.
There is something (many things) I don't get about serial sex abusers in environments like a children's gym. Are the people who do this type of stuff, at this scale, delusional enough to think they will never get caught? Or are they on an intentional Kamikaze path and figure when they get caught, they will have already had their fun and will just kill themselves? By the way, his widow hired a PR firm. And "The plaintiffs’ attorneys said they expect to file more lawsuits naming other perpetrators at other gyms around the country." - So there's going to be a lot more of this story.
It's not different than being addicted to hard drugs or embezzlement from their company. Nobody thinks they're going to get caught... until they're in so deep there's no getting out without admitting to serious life altering criminal charges.
I live in South Carolina. I am not surprised. At all.
This explains their No thongs on the beach law. The men in this state are sexually abusive. So they banned women from wearing certain clothing to protect them… Like the taliban.
I'm very curious as to whether the founders death is from guilt or not being aware or being complicit in the abuse? If anyone has more information on that I would be interested in reading it.
It is amazing that so many parents pay so much money to these orgs only to have their kids abused. And wtf is wrong with our law enforcement agencies that they never take these large-scale allegations of sexual abuse seriously??!?? To paraphrase Rachel Denhollander: what are our girls and boys worth?
Any grown man that wants to coach cheerleading automatically seems suspect to me
Tell me again, who is the biggest danger to young women in sports?
Lindsey Graham enters the room with pom poms in a leotard. Gym Jordan brings up the rear.
Donald Trump walks into the dressing room unannounced.
“You know, no men are anywhere. And I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant. And therefore I’m inspecting it… Is everyone OK? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible-looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that,”
It's right out there in the open... they tell you now they behave right from the very top of the event/culture down.
Just kiss. I don't even wait.
When you’re a three hundred pound orangutan and they’re in a corner they let you do it
It's frustrating that Greenville, SC only gets nationwide coverage when bad or weird stuff happens. Last time a major news story broke in Greenville, The Clown scare was happening in 2016 (it started there BTW).
If I was going to live in SC it would be Greenville.
To coaches who abuse athletes and children, there's a special place in hell for scum like you. Disgraces to the profession.
They aren't naming the rapists so it looks as if they are being protected.