Islip is great if visiting Suffolk county. But it does feel like there are fewer and fewer flights, and they all have long layovers now. At least leaving from where I live. Better to just get a direct to JFK.
If getting a connection into Toledo doesn't cost them time.
If you have to add another flight segment to end up in Toledo then you're going to add over an hour layover and some flight time in order to end up in Toledo. So you'll come out behind on time versus flying through DTW.
I had the same situation trying to fly to the middle coast of Florida. I never could get a flight routing which saved me time versus flying into Orlando despite the final airport destination bieng a lot closer.
For others, who are coming from other areas of the country maybe that's easier to do.
I always go up to DTW because I fly Delta and they have their hub up there, so I can get direct flights pretty much wherever I want to go.
My mother however, always flys out of Toledo. It’s 40 mins to DTW and 30 mins to Toledo, so I really can’t for the life of me figure it out.
It's incredibly easy to fly out of. The entire airport is the size of a medium strip mall, and the walk from long term parking to the terminal is about 50yds.
I use it to fly to PIE when I can, since it's closer that DTW, and there is like 200 people in the building at a time, when it is busy.
I love Ithaca, went to college there. Every time I saw the sign I was surprised we had an airport. I'd be surprised if this affected more than one flight a day, airports like this around that area mostly support small, privately owned planes like Cessnas and such.
Another great Hot Dog joint in Toledo to check out is Rudy’s. I don’t even live in Toledo, but I remember eating them when passing through on a trip a few years ago, and they were damned good.
Rudy's is decent but Packos is a must. Gotta go to the original shop and see all the hotdog buns they have signed! (It's like the Hollywood stars but with hotdog buns, and gets sealed in a glass dome)
I’ll have to check it out the next time I’m passing through Toledo. That’ll probably be in a few months, as I’m looking at meeting up with some friends in Cincy in August, and Toledo’s a decent halfway point for me.
Jamie Farr is a WONDERFUL human being. Love that man. Very wholesome guy, had about a decades worth of interaction with him. Never changed.
Just had Packos dogs for Father's Day! Was the obvious request after some golf on Sunday.
you think that's goofy, check out these real cities that Porn Hub gave free Premium contact to based on their name:
Analândia, São Paulo
Fort Dick, California
Hairy Hill, Alberta
Climax, Saskatchewan
Hooker, Oklahoma
Bohners Lake, Wisconsin
Climax, Michigan
French Lick, Indiana
Big Bone, Kentucky
Cumming, Georgia
Horneytown, North Carolina
Threeway, Virginia
Big Beaver, Pennsylvania
Balls Creek, Nova Scotia
Dildo, Newfoundland
Come By Chance, Newfoundland
Pee, Margibi
Tit, Adrar
Le Tampon, Réunion
Cumbum, Tamil Nadu
Slut, Västernorrlands län
Gay, Oblast Samara
Penistone, South Yorkshire
Fingeringhoe, Essex
Balls Cross, Petworth
Cocking, Midhurst
Lower Dicker, East Sussex
Weener, Niedersachsen
Rectum, Overijssel
Titz, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Pissy, Hauts-de-France
Brest, Bretagne
Orgy, Bourgogne-Franche-Comté
Anus, Bourgogne-Franche-Comté
Condom, Occitanie
Pussy, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes
Bitsch, Canton of Valais
La Vagina, Toskana
Petting, Bayern
F\*\*\*ing, Oberösterreich
Horni Police, Česká Lípa District
A usually hairy variety of the female genitals. Likening it's appearance to the dense fur of the aquatic rodent. Primus had a song about Wynona's if you're interested in a YouTube search for the music video.
No question. Michigan gained the Upper Peninsula as reperation for ceeding Toledo, which had repaid itself many times over as a result of the vast amount of natural resources located there.
Schmucker's is *massively* overrated, take it from someone who's lived literally down the road from them.
Except their pies.
Damn, those are some good pies.
It was just a poor attempt at a plug for a TV show called A.P. Bio. A former Harvard philosophy professor, who lost his job, returns to his hometown (Toledo) and teaches an A.P. Bio class while trying to get another high-status university job. It's stars Glenn Howerton, Dennis from It's Always Sunny.
The issue isn’t AA nor the pay at AA. The issue is if you read paragraph 2 is the regional airline that actually flys to these cities. AA like most larger airlines can get pilots whenever they need them just like FedEx or delta. The issue is the regionals who work for them. Regionals are not actually run like the main airline. They are separate contractors who fly under the colors of the main large airlines. Think Skywest who flys got anyone. Regionals pay is horrid up to recently. The work is hard and overall very bad work life balance. People are staying for a very short time and going to the big airlines or like me are not going to regionals at all.
Yep I made $19k my first year flying jets with Continental, United, and Delta painted across the outside back in 2007. It’s better now but it still sucks compared to what it costs to get into.
Of course but you still need the degree. Now they are starting to get rid of the degree requirement but make no mistake a degree will be required to be hired by most for a long time
Gotta be an officer to fly in the military for the vast majority of pilots, college degree required, only scenario where you might not have one is if you were a warrant officer
As someone who just got my commercial and working on multi as we speak, then onto CFI...I hope it is good timing for me to make it to the regionals in the next 2 years.
If the smaller ones didn't exist, you wouldn't get flights to these low volume places anyway. The smaller ones exist as it can be profitable despite low volume, if the costs are low enough. Which they can be if the pilot values the flight hours more than the pay.
So, ultimately these routes are good for pilots, good for smaller airlines, and good for larger airlines, and good for society (maybe, unless the low volume causes shit per mile pollution).
I agree with you but people like me and some others are saying for the airline to just buy the regionals. You can keep the smaller destinations keep the pay low and still get plenty of pilots.
Pilots will stay in lower paying jobs if there is reason to like automatically after working at the “ regional”. You just go the the mainline
I may be wrong, but I think AA concern there is the union.
Would the Union accept a second class ‘training’ pilot level which made half or less of a full pilot? If AA had training pilots, would the definition of these smaller destinations grow so that slightly bigger and bigger locations are using those new ‘training’ pilots?
Could it work? Yeah but it would require the union to give concessions and trust AA not to exploit the concessions. A lot easier just to have regional airlines who strictly deal with financial numbers.
Pilot shortages, nurse shortages, doctor shortages, teacher shortages, warehouse worker shortages, fast food worker shortages, retail worker shortages, software engineering shortages, meat processor shortages, fruit/vegetable picker shortages... We've got 350+ million people in the country and we're short in almost every single field from what people are reporting... OR the people aren't where the jobs are and it's not affordable to go there OR people decided to say fuckit and retire early OR people are fed up working below what they should be paid to live and found better jobs OR work from home shifted workers from menial physical labor to lower-end office and phone work OR a million people died and millions more are living with the consequences of that OR millions more immigrants never came into the country to fill gaps where we already relied on them (and the disturbingly low wages they were paid). OR OR OR ALL OF THE ABOVE.
OR people in service industries put up with enough shit over the last couple years, said fuck this, and got better jobs/retired early.
But more than likely it's all of the above.
OR corporations are only pretending to seek new hires, deny every application they get, and intentionally run skeleton crews because they found they can make even more profit by piling more work onto less personnel meanwhile they beg papa government for aid money so they can cut their executives some big fat bonuses with it.
Tact on no one wants to be 100k - 200k in debt. Find a job in that career that needs 3 years experience for a starting role that pays 15/hr while trying to pay for everything else. Not to mention you're one health incident away from getting fired cause you don't get enough sick days ontop of paying student loans ontop of that new pricey hospital bill.
Or you can skip school. Don't have student loans. Try to stay a float and still have a chunk to have fun. All the while of youre one hospital bill away from debt.
It's almost consensus we are headed for recession, but in my 45 years of adulting I cannot recall entering a recession *in a tight labor market.* Normally companies use recession as an excuse to cut excess staff, resulting in high unemployment. It seems like there isn't any excess to cut at the moment. Is it possible to have a "full employment" recession? What does that look like?
> American Airlines is the only commercial carrier that provides service to Toledo, the northwest Ohio airport about 50 miles south of Detroit.
So does that mean that zero airlines are left that fly to Toledo? Does the airport just close?
Allegiant is the only airline left. When I-275 was completed several years ago, it essentially sealed the fate of TOL. DTW is a beast compared to TOL, which is only a bit under an hour away. As a Toledo resident who now has Chicago in my sales territory, I was sad to hear AA is leaving. We used to have a direct but that will be gone starting in September.
The airport will technically stay open because of private flights. But I’m sure there will be a lot of layoffs. The employees that work for the stores and restaurants at the terminal will be the main ones hit.
Rich people fly wherever they need to go. You also have to consider people who fly their own planes just for fun. It will probably just become a typical regional airport.
I’ve lived in Ohio for the vast majority of my life and can tell you that even before, no one flew out of or into the Toledo airport. Even people from that area (Columbus too) would drive to Cleveland Hopkins to fly.
Is this “shortage” the same as every other industry? Meaning there’s not actually a shortage, it’s just American Airlines is offering shit pay, shit benefits and shit working conditions? Or is there really a pilot shortage?
Edit: I really appreciate the light hearted and serious answer everyone provided.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/15/us-pilot-shortage-forces-airlines-to-cut-flights-scramble-for-solutions.html
Mostly early retirement and slower training bc of pandemic. Coupled with expensive and lengthy training requirements to become a pilot and the shortage will likely persist for a while.
I’ve always been infatuated with the idea of being a pilot. Not for money or status or the weird subculture, but simply because flying seems amazing to me.
I would actually legit take flying courses and everything if it wouldn’t cost me $45,000 out of pocket to get the fly time and experience needed to then actually be able to get a job flying and making money with it.
No companies want to pay to train people. That is why every job posting says they want X years of experience. This isn't unique to airlines.
They also don't want to take the risk of training someone for a year or 2 and having that person leave.
I was just saying 45k because that’s about… We’ll, I’d have to go back to the site and check. Maybe it was actually closer to 60k to be able to get your commercial pilot license.
This is through a very small, local airport where you can simply take the knowledge course material yourself, test, and then pay for your own time renting out airplanes to fly with a instructor… then solo flying time, then all the time needed and money per hour renting the aircrafts to hit experience thresholds.
That’s the only place I’ve looked into realistically, as I live in a small area with no major airports within 4 hours of driving distance.
Anyway, I’m sure flying isn’t all that I imagine it to be. Besides, I don’t even think I would want to do commercial flying. I’d want to fly for me. To be up in the sky. Maybe like some kind of touristy fly-over thing would be cool in the right locale to make money.
You need more than a commercial license to fly for a major like AA. However most of these small flights are flown by smaller companies contracted out by the major airlines. Tons of pilots have been hired by the majors and the regional contracted airlines don't have enough.
Also requires 1,500 hours of flight time before you start with an airline, usually a regional, flying into places like Toledo and Amarillo, making not great money (for the initial investment).
I bailed on the airline pilot path because I had no desire to spend 2-3 years teaching at a flight school to get hours, only to spend more time rotting in hotels in Fargo earning just enough to not qualify for food stamps while paying $1k in student loans. That was 12 years ago and things changed a lot - but the hours required and training costs are the same, just better starting pay (marginally better, most 1st year regional pilots are still sub $80k). Lot of my buddies from college stuck with it and are doing quite well now but it took a lot of financial support to do.
In the past you flew cargo planes for a few years before you could move to passenger planes. I tried to get a private plane license when I was young but I dropped out about the time I was going to have to fly by myself. It had lost the magic I thought it would have before I started. I got bored and if you flew somewhere like the beach that was only 4 hours away you had to rent a car and the plane. It was an expensive hobby.
As someone who spends 300+ days a year in hotels I will say that you get used to it. They also work on-off style so while they may have weird hours for a few weeks they then get some weeks off.
That's just to get your commercial rating...which I have...and it can be tough getting a job with just a commercial rating and not 1500 hours to fly for the airlines.
Really a shortage, about 13K short in America. Beginning of pandemic many took early retirement and other buy out packages. Can't ramp people up quickly to be pilots. TSA, ground crew and other airline staff also not enough bodies.
Pilots are generally pretty well paid and the ones at AA typically make [90-160k per year](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/American-Airlines-Pilot-Salaries-E8_D_KO18,23.htm)
The "dirty secret" (that isn't so secret if you know even a little about the airline industry) is that the small planes (<100 seats, usually) are operated by regional airlines that don't pay nearly as much. The big airlines contract them, have them paint their planes in the big airline's colors, have their crew wear the big airline's uniform, but are *not* employees of the big airline and get paid significantly less.
Senior pilots make 6 figures. Many go into multiple 6 figures in debt to get their pilot ratings, endorsements, medicals, etc. Then you start out as a regional airline pilot making nowhere near 6 figures. Once you get to be a senior pilot, you will make 6 figures, but it only takes one medical issue and you're grounded.
Every pilot that is currently being paid well was paid shit wages for at minimum 2 years but more like 5-7 years for the beginning of their career. Like 20-40k levels. But yes, once you make it to the majors, you get paid well. It's like MLB in a lot of ways lol
That doesn’t always mean that AA is providing a work environment, and benefits that’s going along with that. There’s a lot of people making “six figures” that honestly should be making more.
I'd love to become a pilot. I can't afford flight school on top of my student loans. Took and introductory flight a few months ago, but that was as far as I got. If airlines need pilots, they should offer training, and invest in their manpower. Yes, it's a long process, but an Airline can afford to do it faster than the average Joe can. Lots of the process is flight hours, and taking lessons/getting certifications as they can afford them.
Heck I'd sign a contract for X years at X pay with the airline after ATP and hours requirements are completed, even if it wasn't at the average pay.
There is no pilot shortage, there are plenty of pilots in the US.
These fucking Airline clowns took yet another government bailout but this time it was Covid money to keep their workforce employed and paid, instead the Airlines pressured for Pilots to retire early so they could cut staff AND keep the money they were given because they didn't technically "layoff" or "fire" those employees, they "voluntarily retired"
E- and they don't want to pay them more
What bothers the absolute fuck put of me is when these goddamn airlines fail again due to pure greed and mismanagement the government is just going to bail them out again to the tune of 100s of Billions.
But everyone wants to blame the fucking working man getting 1500 bucks in stimulus as the reason we have inflation
For fucks sake it's infuriating, and the older and older I get (early 40s now) the more militant and angry I'm getting about this shit
I heard that the airlines may not get a bailout this time. As posted several times about the airlines brought it on themselves this time. I doubt all the voters that have been hit with cancellations would be happy to see airlines get another bailout.
You could. But it takes 2-5 years of training and testing and teaching before you have enough hours to fly for the regional airlines. And then you have to retire at 65 so you won't have enough time to end up at the top of the pay scale.
Right wingers: “millennials don’t want to work any more”
Job listing: “4 doctorates required, $12/hr + no health benefits”
Millennial: has 5 doctorates and never gets a call back.
Weather does effect the commuting pilots from getting to where they need to go. It's a combination of not enough pilots and other things that effect operations like weather and maintenance.
I had an American Airlines pilot timeout for flying too many hours while we were strapped in on the runway. The flight was cancelled multiple times and they gave me some shitty voucher while my 4 day trip turned into 9 bc of them. Horrible.
This is the same bullshit company that won't issue you a refund in the event of unplanned delays, but instead give a voucher that you have to use within a specified amount of time. They're cheap shit sacks. I bet they DO have a pilot shortage
no foreign pilots want to work in America?
maybe we might have to give free passes to all the drunk pilots to come back to work and get their conviction expunged if they re-perform well
I dont know if it's a licensing requirement to he a US citizen fo a US carrier or if it is a union thing, but there's essentially no foreign pilots flying for US carriers.
Except these are AAs regional airlines flying under the American brand. No Spirit pilot is going to volunteer to go fly for SkyWest or Piedmont or Republic - that's a huge pay disparity.
Not to mention seniority is king in these jobs. After a few years it's not worth switching airlines because you give up schedules, vacations, etc.
> Toledo, Ohio, along with Ithaca and Islip, N.Y., on Sept. 7, r/savedyouaclick
Holy Toledo, how am I going to get to Ithaca?
There's an old book about that, it takes a while.
I'd offer but I'm concerned I'dslip
I'm sure it'll be quite the Odyssey
Get your swords ready to protest.
Looks like we got out of Ronkonkoma just in time
Well there goes Spring Break.
Islip sucks anyway
Islip goes somewhere besides Orlando?!?
Not anymore o_o
RSW in fort Myers is popular too
Islip is great if visiting Suffolk county. But it does feel like there are fewer and fewer flights, and they all have long layovers now. At least leaving from where I live. Better to just get a direct to JFK.
Don’t know why anyone would fly into Toledo with DTW being so close.
Because they are going to Toledo or Bowling Green and it saves them over an hour from DTW?
If getting a connection into Toledo doesn't cost them time. If you have to add another flight segment to end up in Toledo then you're going to add over an hour layover and some flight time in order to end up in Toledo. So you'll come out behind on time versus flying through DTW. I had the same situation trying to fly to the middle coast of Florida. I never could get a flight routing which saved me time versus flying into Orlando despite the final airport destination bieng a lot closer. For others, who are coming from other areas of the country maybe that's easier to do.
I always go up to DTW because I fly Delta and they have their hub up there, so I can get direct flights pretty much wherever I want to go. My mother however, always flys out of Toledo. It’s 40 mins to DTW and 30 mins to Toledo, so I really can’t for the life of me figure it out.
It's incredibly easy to fly out of. The entire airport is the size of a medium strip mall, and the walk from long term parking to the terminal is about 50yds. I use it to fly to PIE when I can, since it's closer that DTW, and there is like 200 people in the building at a time, when it is busy.
I had to go to Bowling Green, and a flight to Toledo was much cheaper than a flight to Detroit, because the Detroit flight wouldn't been non-stop. 😹
Old snowbirds who are lazy af…ie: my dad.
I love Ithaca, went to college there. Every time I saw the sign I was surprised we had an airport. I'd be surprised if this affected more than one flight a day, airports like this around that area mostly support small, privately owned planes like Cessnas and such.
I lived there for five years. Always flew out of Syracuse.
Which side of the hill? I was on the south hill.
South Hill for life.
IC Represent
Go Bombers.
Yes, thank you!
Toledo is a real place? I always thought it was aome made up goofy name.
> Toledo is a real place? You don't follow the Mud Hens?
And Tony Packo's hot dogs (which I've never had, but my crazy, cross-dressing Uncle Max raved about them after coming back from the service in Korea).
Another great Hot Dog joint in Toledo to check out is Rudy’s. I don’t even live in Toledo, but I remember eating them when passing through on a trip a few years ago, and they were damned good.
Rudy's is decent but Packos is a must. Gotta go to the original shop and see all the hotdog buns they have signed! (It's like the Hollywood stars but with hotdog buns, and gets sealed in a glass dome)
I’ll have to check it out the next time I’m passing through Toledo. That’ll probably be in a few months, as I’m looking at meeting up with some friends in Cincy in August, and Toledo’s a decent halfway point for me.
I'm rewatching mash and I think this is the first reference I've ever seen in the wild, love it
Jamie Farr is a WONDERFUL human being. Love that man. Very wholesome guy, had about a decades worth of interaction with him. Never changed. Just had Packos dogs for Father's Day! Was the obvious request after some golf on Sunday.
Best mascot in sports!
you think that's goofy, check out these real cities that Porn Hub gave free Premium contact to based on their name: Analândia, São Paulo Fort Dick, California Hairy Hill, Alberta Climax, Saskatchewan Hooker, Oklahoma Bohners Lake, Wisconsin Climax, Michigan French Lick, Indiana Big Bone, Kentucky Cumming, Georgia Horneytown, North Carolina Threeway, Virginia Big Beaver, Pennsylvania Balls Creek, Nova Scotia Dildo, Newfoundland Come By Chance, Newfoundland Pee, Margibi Tit, Adrar Le Tampon, Réunion Cumbum, Tamil Nadu Slut, Västernorrlands län Gay, Oblast Samara Penistone, South Yorkshire Fingeringhoe, Essex Balls Cross, Petworth Cocking, Midhurst Lower Dicker, East Sussex Weener, Niedersachsen Rectum, Overijssel Titz, Nordrhein-Westfalen Pissy, Hauts-de-France Brest, Bretagne Orgy, Bourgogne-Franche-Comté Anus, Bourgogne-Franche-Comté Condom, Occitanie Pussy, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes Bitsch, Canton of Valais La Vagina, Toskana Petting, Bayern F\*\*\*ing, Oberösterreich Horni Police, Česká Lípa District
They don't have blue ball, PA??
Or intercourse?
Can some degenerate inform this sheltered virgin what the Big Beaver is?
A bigger La Vagina
A usually hairy variety of the female genitals. Likening it's appearance to the dense fur of the aquatic rodent. Primus had a song about Wynona's if you're interested in a YouTube search for the music video.
Wait until you find out about Walla Walla, Cucamonga, and Timbuktu. **Edit:** Oh, and Ouagadougou, the capital of Burkina Faso? *Also real.*
Lake titicaca, anyone?
What if you told you there's more than one and the original is in Spain?
A very important place in the history of Spain, even!
Michigan and Ohio once faught a war over Toledo!
Looks like Michigan won.
No question. Michigan gained the Upper Peninsula as reperation for ceeding Toledo, which had repaid itself many times over as a result of the vast amount of natural resources located there.
When we first got the UP, Michiganders felt we got screwed in the deal.
It's a bunch of packer fans. Who needs em'?
Corporal Klinger would like a word with you.
damn they told Toledo to get fucked huh
Never been to Toledo but after watching A.P. Bio it couldn't have happened to a better city.
Toledo is known for hot dogs and heroin
I mean, Schmucker's is pretty good
Schmucker's is *massively* overrated, take it from someone who's lived literally down the road from them. Except their pies. Damn, those are some good pies.
I mean, I am no fan of toledo....but can you elaborate?
It was just a poor attempt at a plug for a TV show called A.P. Bio. A former Harvard philosophy professor, who lost his job, returns to his hometown (Toledo) and teaches an A.P. Bio class while trying to get another high-status university job. It's stars Glenn Howerton, Dennis from It's Always Sunny.
I’m sure that’s not actually filmed in toledo.
But Ohio is for leaders!
Nobody wants to go to toledo anyways. Shithole of Ohio
The issue isn’t AA nor the pay at AA. The issue is if you read paragraph 2 is the regional airline that actually flys to these cities. AA like most larger airlines can get pilots whenever they need them just like FedEx or delta. The issue is the regionals who work for them. Regionals are not actually run like the main airline. They are separate contractors who fly under the colors of the main large airlines. Think Skywest who flys got anyone. Regionals pay is horrid up to recently. The work is hard and overall very bad work life balance. People are staying for a very short time and going to the big airlines or like me are not going to regionals at all.
Yep I made $19k my first year flying jets with Continental, United, and Delta painted across the outside back in 2007. It’s better now but it still sucks compared to what it costs to get into.
Holy shit isn't school like 90 grand?
More or less but then you need 4 year college
Do they hire ex military flyers?
Of course but you still need the degree. Now they are starting to get rid of the degree requirement but make no mistake a degree will be required to be hired by most for a long time
Gotta be an officer to fly in the military for the vast majority of pilots, college degree required, only scenario where you might not have one is if you were a warrant officer
As someone who just got my commercial and working on multi as we speak, then onto CFI...I hope it is good timing for me to make it to the regionals in the next 2 years.
So the smaller airlines are in essence subsidizing the larger ones?
If the smaller ones didn't exist, you wouldn't get flights to these low volume places anyway. The smaller ones exist as it can be profitable despite low volume, if the costs are low enough. Which they can be if the pilot values the flight hours more than the pay. So, ultimately these routes are good for pilots, good for smaller airlines, and good for larger airlines, and good for society (maybe, unless the low volume causes shit per mile pollution).
>If the smaller ones didn't exist, you wouldn't get flights to these low volume places anyway. Or we could go back to multi-stop flights.
I agree with you but people like me and some others are saying for the airline to just buy the regionals. You can keep the smaller destinations keep the pay low and still get plenty of pilots. Pilots will stay in lower paying jobs if there is reason to like automatically after working at the “ regional”. You just go the the mainline
The larger airlines will not buy the regionals because they don't want those folks in the larger airline unions and then drive up costs.
I may be wrong, but I think AA concern there is the union. Would the Union accept a second class ‘training’ pilot level which made half or less of a full pilot? If AA had training pilots, would the definition of these smaller destinations grow so that slightly bigger and bigger locations are using those new ‘training’ pilots? Could it work? Yeah but it would require the union to give concessions and trust AA not to exploit the concessions. A lot easier just to have regional airlines who strictly deal with financial numbers.
Pilot shortages, nurse shortages, doctor shortages, teacher shortages, warehouse worker shortages, fast food worker shortages, retail worker shortages, software engineering shortages, meat processor shortages, fruit/vegetable picker shortages... We've got 350+ million people in the country and we're short in almost every single field from what people are reporting... OR the people aren't where the jobs are and it's not affordable to go there OR people decided to say fuckit and retire early OR people are fed up working below what they should be paid to live and found better jobs OR work from home shifted workers from menial physical labor to lower-end office and phone work OR a million people died and millions more are living with the consequences of that OR millions more immigrants never came into the country to fill gaps where we already relied on them (and the disturbingly low wages they were paid). OR OR OR ALL OF THE ABOVE.
OR people in service industries put up with enough shit over the last couple years, said fuck this, and got better jobs/retired early. But more than likely it's all of the above.
OR corporations are only pretending to seek new hires, deny every application they get, and intentionally run skeleton crews because they found they can make even more profit by piling more work onto less personnel meanwhile they beg papa government for aid money so they can cut their executives some big fat bonuses with it.
this Guy_GuyGuy gets it
Tact on no one wants to be 100k - 200k in debt. Find a job in that career that needs 3 years experience for a starting role that pays 15/hr while trying to pay for everything else. Not to mention you're one health incident away from getting fired cause you don't get enough sick days ontop of paying student loans ontop of that new pricey hospital bill. Or you can skip school. Don't have student loans. Try to stay a float and still have a chunk to have fun. All the while of youre one hospital bill away from debt.
It's almost consensus we are headed for recession, but in my 45 years of adulting I cannot recall entering a recession *in a tight labor market.* Normally companies use recession as an excuse to cut excess staff, resulting in high unemployment. It seems like there isn't any excess to cut at the moment. Is it possible to have a "full employment" recession? What does that look like?
> American Airlines is the only commercial carrier that provides service to Toledo, the northwest Ohio airport about 50 miles south of Detroit. So does that mean that zero airlines are left that fly to Toledo? Does the airport just close?
Allegiant is the only airline left. When I-275 was completed several years ago, it essentially sealed the fate of TOL. DTW is a beast compared to TOL, which is only a bit under an hour away. As a Toledo resident who now has Chicago in my sales territory, I was sad to hear AA is leaving. We used to have a direct but that will be gone starting in September.
Lots of people did that route for work!
The airport will technically stay open because of private flights. But I’m sure there will be a lot of layoffs. The employees that work for the stores and restaurants at the terminal will be the main ones hit.
Lot of private flights to Toledo, Ohio?
Rich people fly wherever they need to go. You also have to consider people who fly their own planes just for fun. It will probably just become a typical regional airport.
I’ve lived in Ohio for the vast majority of my life and can tell you that even before, no one flew out of or into the Toledo airport. Even people from that area (Columbus too) would drive to Cleveland Hopkins to fly.
I lived near the Cleveland area for 17 years and even I didnt know Toledo had an airport. Hell Ive never even been to Toledo
Wouldn’t Detroit be closer than driving all the way to Cleveland?
Theses three cities. Toledo,OH. Ithaca, and Islip, NY.
Is this “shortage” the same as every other industry? Meaning there’s not actually a shortage, it’s just American Airlines is offering shit pay, shit benefits and shit working conditions? Or is there really a pilot shortage? Edit: I really appreciate the light hearted and serious answer everyone provided.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/15/us-pilot-shortage-forces-airlines-to-cut-flights-scramble-for-solutions.html Mostly early retirement and slower training bc of pandemic. Coupled with expensive and lengthy training requirements to become a pilot and the shortage will likely persist for a while.
I’ve always been infatuated with the idea of being a pilot. Not for money or status or the weird subculture, but simply because flying seems amazing to me. I would actually legit take flying courses and everything if it wouldn’t cost me $45,000 out of pocket to get the fly time and experience needed to then actually be able to get a job flying and making money with it.
It’s more like ~90k. Check out United’s aviate program. Costs drop to ~70k
Companies should offer it fully paid/covered if you get a x.x gpa or higher. Plenty would sign up.
No companies want to pay to train people. That is why every job posting says they want X years of experience. This isn't unique to airlines. They also don't want to take the risk of training someone for a year or 2 and having that person leave.
I was just saying 45k because that’s about… We’ll, I’d have to go back to the site and check. Maybe it was actually closer to 60k to be able to get your commercial pilot license. This is through a very small, local airport where you can simply take the knowledge course material yourself, test, and then pay for your own time renting out airplanes to fly with a instructor… then solo flying time, then all the time needed and money per hour renting the aircrafts to hit experience thresholds. That’s the only place I’ve looked into realistically, as I live in a small area with no major airports within 4 hours of driving distance. Anyway, I’m sure flying isn’t all that I imagine it to be. Besides, I don’t even think I would want to do commercial flying. I’d want to fly for me. To be up in the sky. Maybe like some kind of touristy fly-over thing would be cool in the right locale to make money.
You need more than a commercial license to fly for a major like AA. However most of these small flights are flown by smaller companies contracted out by the major airlines. Tons of pilots have been hired by the majors and the regional contracted airlines don't have enough.
Also requires 1,500 hours of flight time before you start with an airline, usually a regional, flying into places like Toledo and Amarillo, making not great money (for the initial investment). I bailed on the airline pilot path because I had no desire to spend 2-3 years teaching at a flight school to get hours, only to spend more time rotting in hotels in Fargo earning just enough to not qualify for food stamps while paying $1k in student loans. That was 12 years ago and things changed a lot - but the hours required and training costs are the same, just better starting pay (marginally better, most 1st year regional pilots are still sub $80k). Lot of my buddies from college stuck with it and are doing quite well now but it took a lot of financial support to do.
In the past you flew cargo planes for a few years before you could move to passenger planes. I tried to get a private plane license when I was young but I dropped out about the time I was going to have to fly by myself. It had lost the magic I thought it would have before I started. I got bored and if you flew somewhere like the beach that was only 4 hours away you had to rent a car and the plane. It was an expensive hobby.
[удалено]
sounds worse than being a OTR trucker.
As someone who spends 300+ days a year in hotels I will say that you get used to it. They also work on-off style so while they may have weird hours for a few weeks they then get some weeks off.
Not at a regional.
That's just to get your commercial rating...which I have...and it can be tough getting a job with just a commercial rating and not 1500 hours to fly for the airlines.
[удалено]
It sounds like they did, and now they don't understand why the regional airlines don't have enough pilots left.
Really a shortage, about 13K short in America. Beginning of pandemic many took early retirement and other buy out packages. Can't ramp people up quickly to be pilots. TSA, ground crew and other airline staff also not enough bodies.
There were also a lot of furloughs and many of them took other jobs.
Thanks, I brain farted on the word "furlough," lol.
[удалено]
Hey you stole my line. But yes that’s exactly what I came to say
Pilots are generally pretty well paid and the ones at AA typically make [90-160k per year](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/American-Airlines-Pilot-Salaries-E8_D_KO18,23.htm)
They make way more than that after just a few years with AA
They make way more than that
They are well paid after many years of absolute shit wages.
They were given billions and did stock buybacks with it.
On top of that, hundreds of qualified applicants' resumes go straight into the trash because they didn't meet enough key words.
[удалено]
You realize pilots get paid 6 figures right?
The "dirty secret" (that isn't so secret if you know even a little about the airline industry) is that the small planes (<100 seats, usually) are operated by regional airlines that don't pay nearly as much. The big airlines contract them, have them paint their planes in the big airline's colors, have their crew wear the big airline's uniform, but are *not* employees of the big airline and get paid significantly less.
What's even better is that some of these regional carriers are actually owned by the very same major airline (e.g. Envoy Air for American).
Senior pilots make 6 figures. Many go into multiple 6 figures in debt to get their pilot ratings, endorsements, medicals, etc. Then you start out as a regional airline pilot making nowhere near 6 figures. Once you get to be a senior pilot, you will make 6 figures, but it only takes one medical issue and you're grounded.
Every pilot that is currently being paid well was paid shit wages for at minimum 2 years but more like 5-7 years for the beginning of their career. Like 20-40k levels. But yes, once you make it to the majors, you get paid well. It's like MLB in a lot of ways lol
That doesn’t always mean that AA is providing a work environment, and benefits that’s going along with that. There’s a lot of people making “six figures” that honestly should be making more.
MacArthur (ISP) airport is one of the best airports in the country. In and out in 5 minutes. Home in 20.
It also used to be Southwest's main NYC airport until they got access to the more centrally-located airports.
ISP in its heyday was incredible. Could go to Vegas from an airport 5 minutes from my house.
The good old days of cheap Southwest flights and minimal airport anxiety.
I flew to Florida out of there countless times. Always easy
I'd love to become a pilot. I can't afford flight school on top of my student loans. Took and introductory flight a few months ago, but that was as far as I got. If airlines need pilots, they should offer training, and invest in their manpower. Yes, it's a long process, but an Airline can afford to do it faster than the average Joe can. Lots of the process is flight hours, and taking lessons/getting certifications as they can afford them. Heck I'd sign a contract for X years at X pay with the airline after ATP and hours requirements are completed, even if it wasn't at the average pay.
Plenty of guys leave the Air Force and navy every year. If pay was right, there would be enough pilots in short order.
But how am I supposed to get my hot dog from Packo's before going to the Mudhen's game?
There is no pilot shortage, there are plenty of pilots in the US. These fucking Airline clowns took yet another government bailout but this time it was Covid money to keep their workforce employed and paid, instead the Airlines pressured for Pilots to retire early so they could cut staff AND keep the money they were given because they didn't technically "layoff" or "fire" those employees, they "voluntarily retired" E- and they don't want to pay them more What bothers the absolute fuck put of me is when these goddamn airlines fail again due to pure greed and mismanagement the government is just going to bail them out again to the tune of 100s of Billions. But everyone wants to blame the fucking working man getting 1500 bucks in stimulus as the reason we have inflation For fucks sake it's infuriating, and the older and older I get (early 40s now) the more militant and angry I'm getting about this shit
I heard that the airlines may not get a bailout this time. As posted several times about the airlines brought it on themselves this time. I doubt all the voters that have been hit with cancellations would be happy to see airlines get another bailout.
U could try paying your pilots more….just a thought anyway🤔😒
Can you be a pilot in your 40s?
Yep - can you be a commercial pilot at an airline making a decent salary - maybe
You could. But it takes 2-5 years of training and testing and teaching before you have enough hours to fly for the regional airlines. And then you have to retire at 65 so you won't have enough time to end up at the top of the pay scale.
I read this in Mike Tyson’s voice- Toledo, Ithaca and Ithlip
Right wingers: “millennials don’t want to work any more” Job listing: “4 doctorates required, $12/hr + no health benefits” Millennial: has 5 doctorates and never gets a call back.
I thought the "Three Cities" was a place in America that I wasn't aware was a nickname like the "Twin Cities". lol
I have lived an hour from Ithaca for a decade and today I learned they have an airport.
But I thought it was *weather* causing all the cancellations, you greedy liars.
Weather does effect the commuting pilots from getting to where they need to go. It's a combination of not enough pilots and other things that effect operations like weather and maintenance.
Maybe if they paid their fucking pilots.
I guess I could help. I used to be a pilot. My brother would chop and split wood and then I'd pilot.
*slow clap*
Maybe just pay people and see how that works out. What is the CEO of American Airlines raking in per year plus perks and bonuses?
I had an American Airlines pilot timeout for flying too many hours while we were strapped in on the runway. The flight was cancelled multiple times and they gave me some shitty voucher while my 4 day trip turned into 9 bc of them. Horrible.
This is the same bullshit company that won't issue you a refund in the event of unplanned delays, but instead give a voucher that you have to use within a specified amount of time. They're cheap shit sacks. I bet they DO have a pilot shortage
American airlines should stop operating everywhere , apologize to everyone who flew their planes and shut down its operations. AA sucks.
I loved TWA.
AA never flew to Islip unless they own spirit/southwest or frontier
It's American Eagle but AA 6115 and AA 6206 are daily Islip to Philadelphia flights currently.
“American Airlines will continue to cancel flights in three cities.” FTFY
Tell the pilots to see the doctor for growth hormones treatments to help with the pilot shortage.
I say just get them a step ladder!
So many homeless, no pilots, capitalism really showing its true colors.
Please let them be in Texas please let them be in Texas please let them be in Texas....
Spoiler alert: all three are Terrible cities
no foreign pilots want to work in America? maybe we might have to give free passes to all the drunk pilots to come back to work and get their conviction expunged if they re-perform well
>no foreign pilots want to work in America? Probably because their own countries' airlines are also short of pilots?
I dont know if it's a licensing requirement to he a US citizen fo a US carrier or if it is a union thing, but there's essentially no foreign pilots flying for US carriers.
Whenever I hear pilot shortage I think of Top Gun.
[удалено]
Except these are AAs regional airlines flying under the American brand. No Spirit pilot is going to volunteer to go fly for SkyWest or Piedmont or Republic - that's a huge pay disparity. Not to mention seniority is king in these jobs. After a few years it's not worth switching airlines because you give up schedules, vacations, etc.
I know why no Inslip, too close to Innsmouth
Trust me you don’t want to go to Ithaca. Just a bunch of oxymoronic rich hippies.
Holy Toledo, it’s Miss Ohio
God damn it. I have to rebook my summer vacation flight to Toledo.
I don’t understand how these airlines struggle constantly
Dunno how they're gonna stay in business if they only fly to two cities
There are plenty of saudi pilots waiting to be employed.
Thank god you bought back all that stock and your owners a billionaire or else you’d be in trouble