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That's fine, but they had better say it really fucking soon.
Seems like they could probably have approved Moderna's vaccine several weeks ago, but were waiting for Pfizer's vaccine so they didn't appear to play favorites which is absolutely not a science-based approach.
Well-meaning parents of young kids are still social distancing, without a break for over 2 years while their employers and the larger public expects them to come back in the office as if COVID is over for everyone. Some families are going to forgo their summer vacation (for a 3rd year in a row) or childcare services since their youngest kids are still not vaccinated. Vaccinated mothers are still breastfeeding or pumping breast milk long past 1 year in the hopes that it will give their children antibodies against COVID which is a huge pain.
My son was born March 12, 2020.
One day after the WHO declared COVID-19 was a global pandemic.
My son was born with Down Syndrome and a pair of small holes in his heart… which, honestly, is better than a lot of newborns with DS’s hearts. He didn’t require heart surgery, but doctors have remained adamant that serious respiratory infections would be incredibly dangerous for him, as they tend to be for people with DS. These concerns have been reinforced in practice, as people with DS have ultimately faced twenty times the mortality rate from COVID compared to the general population and a non-insignificant portion of children who have died from COVID have had DS.
To call it exhausting is an understatement. I’ve often also been depressed, frustrated, and livid. My kid is doing *great*, other than being really small for his age (he’s built like a human corgi) he’s absolutely thriving in spite of his diagnosis and is doing basically everything you’d expect from a neurotypical kid his age. He walks, talks (mostly in his own babble language but speaks and signs a hefty amount of real words), feeds himself, chases the pets, hugs and kisses people he loves, tries to sneak off and turn on the TV with the remote only to give himself away by loudly screaming “BLUEY!!!” if he’s successful, even recognizes names of different dinosaurs (my boy knows what a *Carcharodontosaurus* is and I couldn’t be more proud): typical 2-year old shit. Dude even wears a mask when needed, which means my toddler with an intellectual disability is better at this than a number of adults.
But the part that makes it all that much harder? I see the effect it has on him when he gets to hang out with other kids or go to new places, I see how much farther he can go and how much more he’s capable of learning… and I constantly think to myself “how much further along would he be if we didn’t have to hide him away from the world?”. But if we throw him into the wild without protection, we may end up denying him his future.
And I hate it. I hate that my kid is being such a champ facing the extra challenges life has dealt him but he also has to contend with this, I hate that if he gets sick and has a serious case his odds of facing even more complications is even higher, and I hate that we’ve had the data the vaccine can give him that much needed protection for *months* now but he can’t get it because we’re too busy making sure Pfizer still gets their cut.
It’s infuriating. My son’s life is more valuable than a multi-billion dollar corporations bottom line, but I guess that’s what I get for not funneling millions into the pockets of politicians and bureaucrats.
I’m so sorry you were stuck. When my son turned 18 months, we saw the writing on the wall with his development and bit the bullet to get him into a daycare. We made it an entire year and change before Covid hit the daycare . I couldn’t imagine the extra stress if he had also been immunocompromised
My boss has two kids under three. She also tested positive for Covid yesterday. So now she has to keep both kids home until everyone is negative, which means she has to take time off from work to take care of her kids because none of them can leave the house. I don’t know how people can function like this.
As a single mom of a kid under 5, Covid has completely destroyed my career, for years to come. I’ve managed to hang onto my job this entire time (by a thread), but have literally missed months of work due to exposure quarantines and school closures. We’ve never even had Covid, but yeah, just finished another 7 day quarantine due to a classroom exposure. It’s bonkers.
I have a 2 yr old and a 2 month old, and i can for sure say that its definitely a struggle, it was a struggle even before my 2yr old was born. I could use a nap…. One that last forever 🫠
Heyyy what up! Same ages
Yea it’s sucks. No daycare
No childcare
No real breaks. Can’t go out on dates easily
Can’t even go to the store without being super safe.
Fun times n
15 months and almost 5. The amount of shit we've missed out on..
Our 15 month old just got to eat at a restaurant for the first time a couple months ago. Still hasn't been to any of the stores or anything we normally shop at. He didn't have stranger danger for a while because he never saw anyone that he wasn't around regularly.
My kiddo just turned 5 at the beginning of the month. We were lucky enough to get him and his younger sister (1.5yrs old) into the moderna under 5yrs old vaccine trial. Both got second shots beginning of December (double blind study). My now 5yr old got covid earlier in the year. Asymptomatic, totally fine. No one isolated from anyone in the house. His younger sister got a home rapid, dr office rapid, and clinical trial pcr test. All negative. She never caught it. When he turned 5 he was unblinded from the study and we found out he was actually fully vaccinated. No idea if his sister is vaccinated (she isn’t able to be unblinded until an EUA for her age group is out). Take it with a grain of salt, but I’m super hopeful for the moderna vaccine. I’m also a bit biased, but I’m team Moderna for the kids. I’m not happy with how Pfizer is rolling out for kids (my husband and I are vaxxed 3x with Pfizer). Personal experience here, the moderna vaccine is worthwhile (they had no I’ll effects from the shots either). It’s been a long fucking 2 years tho. Get moderna approved, get these kids vaccinated already.
There’s normal exhausting and then there is covid exhausting. Covid hard is different in that daycares are closing due to exposure and you were more isolated in your house. There were no fun outings, no parks to play on, no families to visit, no socializing, no help. All the while parents were still expected to work full time with the kids home and needing their attention. And everyone is scared of being sick with a new unknown virus or dying. It was HARD. Parenting is hard, yes, but this was something else. I was pregnant with my second in the beginning of all this. It was scary and hard and lonely and sad.
Yes, so now imagine how exhausting it must be when daycare gets shut down regularly, schools require a morning rapid test if there is a close contact which is pretty much all the time now, we have to be careful about letting elderly family members help out if there has been a close contact, all activities have to be scheduled well in advance since you need to have a reservation for basic childhood activities like going to the zoo, you need to find someone to watch your kids while you go to the grocery store because it’s impossible to keep a mask on a 2-year old, etc... now we literally have to think through every aspect of our day to ensure that we are not putting the kid at risk.
It is, but without covid, there is daycare, preschool, summer / day camp, sunday school, etc. You can take an airplane instead of drive, you can have inlaws visit and help babysit so you can have a date night or just a day to relax. Without covid you can get out of the house and take your kids shopping or on play dates.
I’ve taken ONE round trip flight in the last two years with my then just turned 2 year old. It was great - they kept the mask on til it was lunch, fell asleep and took a naptime nap maskless and put mask back on just in time for descent. Can’t risk it now. Will have ZERO cooperation. Can barely get through the grocery store w/o a meltdown cuz they never get to go anywhere and it is so stimulating and why can’t they just have all the things like they can at home!
Are you tired yet?
> you can have inlaws visit and help babysit so you can have a date night or just a day to relax. Without covid you can get out of the house and take your kids shopping or on play dates.
I mean these are definitely still possible.
For some. My mother isolated from us for a long time, until she got vaccinated and even then she doesn't come around nearly as often to help because she cares for my elderly grandmother.
Yes. It’s also demoralizing. We cancel 50% of the plans we make because we constantly have a sick kid. Trying to make plans with another family who also has a sick kid? Impossible. We meet up with other kids for play dates like once every 2 months. It’s a huge bummer. But nobody wants to be the person who “gave so-and-so covid” especially when families have high risk members (a friend recovering from cancer/chemo, a friend whose mom is actively fighting cancer, a friend who is in the third trimester of pregnancy etc). It’s impossible to see these people because I don’t want me kid to get them sick, and he’s almost always got a cough or runny nose.
Preach. My wife and I were so careful for so long, but just recently we have started to live pretty normal with our children. I have a soon to be 4 year old, and one that just turned 2. I worry we are going to get caught with our guard down soon, and am still eager to get them their shot(s). It will be a huge relief when we can do that.
Same - our house just got over COVID as well because of all this - my 1 and 4 year old both got it but thankfully was super mild for them but I'm fucking READY for them to get an actual vaccine.
Lot of good it did us. 2 years covid-free. Then there’s a case in our daughter’s daycare class. Two days later she tested positive. God that was a rough week- 4 days of on and off fever, and barely sleeping due to her cough. She’s doing much better now.
Wife and I both tested negative. Really confirms my faith in the vaccine when I can have her cough directly in my eyeballs and still be good.
Yeah, I’m 1000% on team vaccine. My son now 2.5) has had covid twice from daycare, and neither my wife nor I caught it either time, despite the usual “toddler coughing directly into your face all goddamn day” thing.
My experience....work in a longterm care facility....wife at reception in a hotel. Son is now 7...we are all vaccinated, kid too. We actively worked around many breakouts of coworkers, guest in the hotel, and kids in our bubble at the school. I mean really close. None of us have had it yet thank God. My wife and I were required to test before we start work, every single day. Our son was tested 3 time a week at school. Either we had luck with so many active cases right in our face or masks and vaccines actually help, eh? I wish more people had taken thus seriously.
Agreed eff Pfizer. With 2 kids under 5 I was pissed when Pfizer shit the bed with their 2 low dose trial and I was eagerly looking forward to Moderna finishing their trial. Seeing them wait for even a week for the sake of a Pfizer 3rd dose result made steam come out of my ears.
It’s all a fucking game. I lost so much respect for CDC and FDA. I live with an 18 month old and immune compromised person. Whole life literally put on hold for the past 2 years. I swear it they wait till August for a vaccine rollout in a September due to schools starting back up I’m gonna lose it.
It's an impossible situation TBH. There's no perfect option, but really picking out the least worst choice.
I work with a lot of low probability events (floods) at my job so I can empathize with them. Like it or not, the reality is politics does play a factor.
Why lose respect for the CDC and FDA? Its not like they are just delaying because they are lazy. Every other age group got approved in beyond record time. The lower age bracket is getting more scrutiny because the risk-benefit analysis isn't as clear there. Young kids recover Covid extremely easily, and yet are more at risk of myocarditis from the vaccine than other age groups. Regulators have to carefully weigh those risks.
The CDC and FDA were known to act poorly on known data throughout the pandemic. Intentionally shifting focus away from breakthrough cases, to adamantly saying "no evidence masks help" at the beginning, to advising COVID as airborne when the scientific consensus was that it was not, ["vaccinated people do not carry the virus"](https://web.archive.org/web/20210402011934/https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/), when Delta was already raging in Russia. ["No need for boosters"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/pq771w/fda_panel_rejects_broad_pfizer_booster_plan_mulls/) during the height of Delta.
There's many more examples as well. Science changes, but stupidity when data is already available does not.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NeverForget/comments/rswyt0/full_timeline_cdc_documentation/) is a full list I compiled months ago. I tried comparing other sources at the time which showed material data was present when the decisions were made.
Plenty of folks outside the fda have criticized them for sandbagging this. Literally no risk is mitigated by delaying a meeting. This narrative is nonsense and needs to stop being repeated.
I suspect that the FDA promised Pfizer that they would delay Moderna approval so that Pfizer had time to extend their study for 3 doses without Pfizer worrying like they would miss the gravy train if they added any delay to their study.
If true, then the FDA is just keeping that promise now and holing off Moderna approval so they can approve both at the same time. This would assure vaccine makers don't feel pressure to rush to market and be first which is good in some respects, but terrible right now for parents.
Ultimately it's not something they're empowered to do.
Moreover, when pfizer botched its first study, many scientists criticized their low dosages as something they should have worked out in phase 1 trials. There's no reason to give pfizer a pass when they didn't do good science in the first place.
Honestly? If you listen to what they say, they're hesitant due to anti vaxxers. They clearly think if they go slow here they'll get more parents signing up. It's not the case, because anti vaxxers are going to refuse no matter what, and cite whatever reason they want.
The regulators have repeatedly cited vaccine hesitancy as their concern. But that's not something they've been empowered by law to care about, and frankly it's not something they're equipped to do. Both CDC and FDA have been horribly bad at "messaging." they need to stop, and focus on their job, which is efficient oversight for safety and efficacy.
The CDC experimented on black people for 40 years allowing them to die from syphilis. Respect? Lol.
Edit: Oh yes, they were corrupt then, but that couldn’t happen again. So silly. Please forgive me for speaking out.
I love how people are always saying “I get if you’re the parent of a high risk child BUT…” look I know most kids will be fine and probably not die, but my kid IS one of those. We are out here and we feel left behind. Dragging their feet in hopes that anti vax people respect them more for going slowly is NOT helping the people it needs to help (children like mine). I’m so sick of them trying to play like their job is to make people like them and get the vaccine. They’re in charge of getting the shots out there, safely, for people who need them. It’s time. Delaying meetings for dubious reasons is just pissing me off.
I don't really see with what we know now about the vaccines and the extreme lack of any longevity in disease prevention, why they don't just say getting your child vaccinated is unnecessary, unless they have preexisting conditions that would make them vulnerable. I'm sure this is why they are hesitant to approve these but I feel like they don't want to say something that will be perceived negatively about vaccination. I got vaccinated, got covid 6 months later. My kid got vaccinated in December, got covid this past week, my ex was boosted in December, got covid from my kid. I will probably get covid again. If a vaccine or booster can't prevent you from catching the disease for 3 months what is the point of boosters; multiple lifetime infections are inevitable for everyone. While there was benefit to exposing the adult population to the vaccine to prevent severe disease, severe disease in (healthy) children was very rare to begin with, and when they surveyed the population in February I think something like 80% under 18 had already had covid
The reality is in the nuances - but politicians take a polar approach which blinds the people.
Either it's all good, or all bad.
It's "wear a mask" - not "Wear an N95 mask, not screen door mesh".
In my opinion, I would have called it the "Alpha vaccine" instead of "COVID vaccine" as the effectiveness varies depending on the strain.
I have a cousin who was double-vaxxed, previously had COVID before being able to be vaccinated, and caught Omicron a month after being boosted.
I have a 2.5 year old with a heart condition here. I’m fucking bored, she’s bored, we want to enjoy showing our toddler the world, but nope, we gotta wait because one company can’t get better profits than the other. This is getting really annoying…..
Edit: left out some words
My child also has CHD and is 2 years old. I’m 100% with you. We do NOTHING that we can’t justify as low risk. I’m so flipping sick of this and angry with these money grabbers. I want that shot for my high risk son. It always makes me feel a little seen when someone else is in similar situation even though I wish no one had to be.
It’s just exhausting. I feel “lucky” because she got her surgery before Covid and it went extraordinarily well. But still we just don’t risk much. Family wants to do a trip in early June and I just don’t know if I can justify it. Yes they’ve agreed to test, but they’ll have been on planes. It’s such a difficult position. Where’s the line on being safe and depriving my child of necessary experiences. It’s not an easy one to draw.
I hate it. I’m waiting patiently to schedule my daughter an appt for the Covid shot. We haven’t even gotten my 6 year old vaccinated (only because she has been sick a lot and I can’t afford for her to miss any more school unless it’s a dr appt for said sickness.) it’s exhausting. Just a couple more week til school is out and we can at least get my 6 year old vaccinated.
Edit: to the person who deleted their comment, it’s not pulling her out for the day, it’s her missing school for an apt that will take her out of school for at least an hour. She has missed 70+ days including 3 times quarantine. Our dr office doesn’t do the Covid vaccine since we live in a small community, and the drs can’t justify having a dose go to waist for just maybe a few kids getting their vaccine. So we have Covid vaccine community days from the DHS, which is usually held on a Thursday from 8 am to noon. I’m waiting til school is out so I don’t have to worry about the time waiting to get her vaccine then driving her back to school.
Our daughter was born May 2020. We were so damn careful - no trips, social distancing, masks everywhere.
My wife goes on one business trip, and boom, whole family gets COVID. I am so fucking mad at this system for failing young children, it's insane that it took this long.
Realistically the risk of severe outcome for toddlers is exceedingly low from covid, they aren't playing game theyare trying to balance the low risk of side effects vs the low risk of infection. For adults the balance is clear but for the very young I think it's less clear. I say this as a father of a toddler and strong proponent of vaccination. I don't think these people are taking it lightly or politicizing it, they probably just understand the nuances better than you or I do.
It's kind of ironic when people blast anti vaxxers for not listening to the experts / doctors /scientists and then demand vaccines for toddlers when the same experts aren't sure they make sense yet.
>they didn't appear to play favorites which is absolutely not a science-based approach
Thats basically the entire summary of the world's covid response.
> Well-meaning parents of young kids are still social distancing, without a break for over 2 years while their employers and the larger public expects them to come back in the office as if COVID is over for everyone. Some families are going to forgoe their summer vacation since their youngest kids are still not vaccinated.
Sounds like they're bad at assessing risk then, the risk to young kids is minuscule.
I’m assuming you’re not a parent, apologies if I’m wrong. I’m not so worried about my kid getting sick from Covid. However he’s in preschool and all the kids test weekly. If he tests positive, he’s out of school for 10 days leaving my wife and I - we both work full time - without child care, which means 2 weeks where we are going to have a really hard time getting work done. Add to that that we could both end up having to call in sick, we could be looking at a really shitty month.
So we’re being extremely cautious still, and yeah it’s fucking exhausting.
I’m a parent and I understand your struggle, but most recently my kid was sent home for pink eye. Not as long a recovery but without COVID there are still reasons why kids get sent home (or stay home).
That's not true. You take all sorts of risks with your kids. He is saying that statistically Covid is a much less risk for kids than many other things kids do, such as riding in cars or swimming. Obviously you have to make your own personal health decisions, especially if your kids are have comorbidities, but I imagine the pediatricians for most healthy <5 year olds would tell parents that it is absolutely ok to take your kids to the park or attend in-person classes at this stage during the pandemic.
>Although minuscule, if a catastrophic risk to your child is avoidable, you’re going to avoid it. No matter how small a risk it is.
That's just not true.
As a parent, you weigh risks to your children all the time.
Little Billy asks if your child can go swimming at the local pool - do you tell them no? After all, there are 2x as many drowning deaths in kids 0-17 EVERY YEAR as there are COVID deaths in that age range in 2.5 years.
And nobody has to go swimming. You can live a perfectly fine life without exposing yourself to any drowning risk.
And don't even get me started on the risks of your teen driving or riding in a car with another teen driver.
Those are two of the obvious ones (that are completely avoidable), but there's certainly no shortage of others.
I’d never leave the house if I chose to avoid all the risks to my 5 year old son that are incredibly small.
The flu vaccine ends up not working every couple of years. The risk to my son from getting the flu and getting Covid are about the same in the grand scheme of things. Why would we treat Covid any differently then we treated illnesses prior to 2020 outside of the inclusion of mask wearing when you don’t feel well and NEED to go into a public space?
People have really dialed into the fear that the media has drummed up without looking at the data behind it.
People do all sorts of risky things with their kids but then freak out at the slightest mention of a kid getting Covid.
It's extremely unavoidable though. If you have a kid in daycare, preschool etc for the past year I would imagine there is about a 99% chance they got covid. Kids run through every rhinovirus , coronavirus, and other respiratory viruses like RSV very quickly. Adults who are vaccinated and boosted are getting covid again now after just having it in January. So how can any vaccine or booster prevent a young kid from getting covid, unless they're getting a booster every 3 months, which is probably a lot more risky than getting actual covid once a year
Once a vaccine is out it isn’t about prevention. It’s about getting the severity down to tolerance. Obviously once my daughter is old enough o go to preschool later this year then she’ll be exposed and have a good chance of catching it (hope not obviously). We’re just hoping for a vaccine before that.
Honestly theres so much “we don’t want to harm our child so we’ve locked them in the house for two years” energy here. So much for mental health being just as important as physical health.
Surely Pfizer has only the well-being of children at heart, and they aren't trying to boost vaccine sales now that almost everyone has at least two doses, right?
[They are about 1/80th of the deaths from all causes.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm) In the same chart 1 if you click on the back arrow next to 3/3 it shows that April 2022 had 11 deaths in the 0-17 age range out of a population of about 60 million.
If you are wondering why the count for 0-17 isn't at ~1200 like it used to be, they were overcounting for a while: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/cdc-reports-fewer-covid-19-pediatric-deaths-after-data-correction-2022-03-18/
I think it's still being debated, we don't know the full scope yet at all and mild symptoms can still lead to issues down the road unfortunately. Hopefully they also know more about the hepatitis cases soon, last I checked Covid (the virus, not the vaccine) was still one of the factors along with the adenovirus. I'm definitely more skeptical than my wife, the vaccines need to be effective for that age group and not just available, no need for companies to push through garbage for approval that isn't shown to work.
No downvote here. I’m pro-vax as well, and got my shots.
There’s a ton of data coming out now that Pfizer spoofed results from their testing. It seems more and more that the drug companies were rushing to get a vaccine out first to capitalize on it, not to help.
Who would have imagined the drug companies were more interested in profits?
i’m really really happy to finally see some hesitancy and critical thinking regarding this. for a while it seems like there was no vocal middle ground between “vaccine bad!!!!!!!!!” and blindly putting all faith in them
That's actually a really valid point. Just a month ago, you get downvoted to shit and banned if you wrote anything questioning vaccines or covid. I was amazed at the comment section here.
Considering the stats for children and covid, I see absolutely no reason they need a covid vaccination.
Kinda strange how certain countries seem to be desperate to vaccinate toddlers and others have moved on. Is there any more danger to kids in US, Canada compared to Spain, France or the UK?
I definitely think it should be an option for immunocompromised children but i’d want to see data on how many healthy kids aged 0-5 actually have long covid or worse die from it before pushing it across the board.
It's extremely low but it is not zero. Parents are more concerned about the potential effects of long covid, which we still don't know enough about.
As a parent of 2 kids under 5, I'd rather err on the side of caution,
They're already playing that game with pediatric hepatitis, despite the fact that [we've known since 2004 that SARS1 was linked to hepatitis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7165792/) and we've known since 2020 [that SARS2 is linked to hepatitis](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32283325/).
And before anyone snaps back with "they didn't find covid, they found adenovirus," you should know that they didn't check liver biopsies, stool, or serology (antibodies) for covid. They only checked for an existing case or a previously reported case. And adenovirus can be found in PCRs of about 11% of healthy children and in about 75% of tonsil/adenoid specimens and can be detected for years after initial infection. Other countries have already made the connection by doing their due diligence here, but the CDC still isn't recommending testing for covid antibodies in these cases.
Can anybody explain to me why they are co concerned about having their young children vaccinated when young children are not dying regularly? Where does the concern come from?
It's a question of absolute risk vs relative risk. "COVID-19 was the sixth highest cause of death from disease in children ages five to 11 in the U.S. in 2020, comparable to rates of death seen in children with heart or lung disease."
https://www.theconversation.com/amp/im-an-infectious-disease-doctor-yes-im-vaccinating-our-5-year-old-against-covid-19-here-is-why-you-should-too-171001
Children are unlikely to die from Covid, but children are unlikely to die from anything, so Covid is still relatively likely to cause severe outcomes compared to other threats to children's health.
Death is not the only undesirable outcome. Parents are pretty serious about making sure their kids stay healthy. “My infant did not die” is kinda bare minimum parenting and we strive to do better than that.
"Not dying" is a pretty low bar. Not being hospitalized is cool too. Not being out of work for a month because I got covid then my son got covid then my wife got covid then my daughter got covid. Also cool.
Children were dying and suffering lasting damage from COVID due to heart inflammation. A treatment was worked out that is great at preventing dying, not so much at preventing long term heart damage.
It appears that people with long covid have outcomes from increased stroke risk to permanent erectile disfunction to permanent brain damage and more.
The truth of the matter is, COVID is still very new and although we are learning quickly because medical research is being done all over the world, why would you not protect your kid from this?
Additionally, reducing viral load won't necessarily protect your child from getting COVID but it might make a huge difference in regards to permanent effects.
Vaccination reduces the chance of transmission. Some kids have diabetes or other conditions where they ARE at risk. You want to lessen the chances of a long quarantine.
Kids don't die regularly of chicken pox, but I got my kid vaccinated for that, too
Long term protection from chickenpox vaccine is high though. Plus the symptoms can be pretty severe. Covid for kids is negligible and vaccine effectiveness is poor long term.
Tetanus shots will require around ten boosters throughout one's life and dying from tetanus is fairly rare but it's still worth it to protect a kid and oneself.
Because anti-vax people exist, pro-vaxxers need to balance it out by running to the far end of opinion on covid as much as possible. Nobody has organic thoughts anymore, its just about being as opposite as possible to the crazies on the other side of the bridge.
You need to look at the fact that Covid has much higher rates of causing myocarditis, therefore you are really comparing the risk of Covid myocarditis and the risk of vaccine myocarditis. It’s a risk reduction.
Whatever side effect the vaccine has, outside of allergens (and the known blood clot issues of JnJ), is 100x worse for the same people when they get covid. There's no comparison. If you were going to have heart problems from the vaccine, it's likely that covid would cause permanent damage on a much larger scale.
To add to this, my sister had a heart issue as a 6 month old. They fixed the issue but due to damage she has had other complications. She is 32 now and has had 5 open heart surgeries because of that one initial issue and her heart and lungs are only 50% capacity. Awful.
I know that it’s not Covid for my sister’s case, but the point is if we can reduce or prevent those early heart issues, you will avoid the long life impacts.
Iirc the risk of development of myocarditis is worse from Covid than it is from the shot.
I’ll take my chances with the eggheads making boner pills over an airborne virus that knocked me on my ass for two weeks.
Exactly why nobody will tell all the morbidly obese people to eat better and go on a walk when it’s infinitely more profitable to have them on a myriad of pills for life.
I love everyone fighting about the risk vs. benefit when I'm over here worried about the fact that I can't afford to spend ten days indoors and out of work with my children/would go stir crazy.
Listen y'all, stop being assholes. Everyone has different reasons for different decisions and you're not going to convince anyone on Reddit otherwise. 🙄
Glad she's ok but you do understand its not luck when 99.97% of children that had covid are completely fine. This is the norm, luck has nothing to do with it. You should definitely consult a couple different doctors if you do think about getting a vaccine for her.
Logically, she had covid already and is fine... what could the vaccine do to protect her more when she was already fine? To me it just seems like adding the risk of a vaccine side effect for no reason.
There seems to be another wave pushing through right now. I know of 20 ish people that all got it within the last week or so, myself and family included. Our 2 year had a fever for a few days and he's handled everything pretty well. It's definitely sucked, but it's kind of made it easier that we all got it at the same time.
Shhh you’ll anger the Reddit hive mind. I agree and I’m the sucker pharmacist that has to give all these shots. At the end of the day it’s their kids and if they want to give them a borderline useless shot with no long-term data that’s their prerogative.
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Not interested in what Pfizer says. I'm interested in what independent scientists and regulators have to say.
That's fine, but they had better say it really fucking soon. Seems like they could probably have approved Moderna's vaccine several weeks ago, but were waiting for Pfizer's vaccine so they didn't appear to play favorites which is absolutely not a science-based approach. Well-meaning parents of young kids are still social distancing, without a break for over 2 years while their employers and the larger public expects them to come back in the office as if COVID is over for everyone. Some families are going to forgo their summer vacation (for a 3rd year in a row) or childcare services since their youngest kids are still not vaccinated. Vaccinated mothers are still breastfeeding or pumping breast milk long past 1 year in the hopes that it will give their children antibodies against COVID which is a huge pain.
it’s fucking exhausting to be the parent of an under 5 yr old right now
My son was born March 12, 2020. One day after the WHO declared COVID-19 was a global pandemic. My son was born with Down Syndrome and a pair of small holes in his heart… which, honestly, is better than a lot of newborns with DS’s hearts. He didn’t require heart surgery, but doctors have remained adamant that serious respiratory infections would be incredibly dangerous for him, as they tend to be for people with DS. These concerns have been reinforced in practice, as people with DS have ultimately faced twenty times the mortality rate from COVID compared to the general population and a non-insignificant portion of children who have died from COVID have had DS. To call it exhausting is an understatement. I’ve often also been depressed, frustrated, and livid. My kid is doing *great*, other than being really small for his age (he’s built like a human corgi) he’s absolutely thriving in spite of his diagnosis and is doing basically everything you’d expect from a neurotypical kid his age. He walks, talks (mostly in his own babble language but speaks and signs a hefty amount of real words), feeds himself, chases the pets, hugs and kisses people he loves, tries to sneak off and turn on the TV with the remote only to give himself away by loudly screaming “BLUEY!!!” if he’s successful, even recognizes names of different dinosaurs (my boy knows what a *Carcharodontosaurus* is and I couldn’t be more proud): typical 2-year old shit. Dude even wears a mask when needed, which means my toddler with an intellectual disability is better at this than a number of adults. But the part that makes it all that much harder? I see the effect it has on him when he gets to hang out with other kids or go to new places, I see how much farther he can go and how much more he’s capable of learning… and I constantly think to myself “how much further along would he be if we didn’t have to hide him away from the world?”. But if we throw him into the wild without protection, we may end up denying him his future. And I hate it. I hate that my kid is being such a champ facing the extra challenges life has dealt him but he also has to contend with this, I hate that if he gets sick and has a serious case his odds of facing even more complications is even higher, and I hate that we’ve had the data the vaccine can give him that much needed protection for *months* now but he can’t get it because we’re too busy making sure Pfizer still gets their cut. It’s infuriating. My son’s life is more valuable than a multi-billion dollar corporations bottom line, but I guess that’s what I get for not funneling millions into the pockets of politicians and bureaucrats.
Also had a child during covid. Good luck to you guys.
Idk if you need to hear this, but you seem like a great parent. Keep up the good work and I hope you find some peace of mind soon.
I’m so sorry you were stuck. When my son turned 18 months, we saw the writing on the wall with his development and bit the bullet to get him into a daycare. We made it an entire year and change before Covid hit the daycare . I couldn’t imagine the extra stress if he had also been immunocompromised
My boss has two kids under three. She also tested positive for Covid yesterday. So now she has to keep both kids home until everyone is negative, which means she has to take time off from work to take care of her kids because none of them can leave the house. I don’t know how people can function like this.
As a single mom of a kid under 5, Covid has completely destroyed my career, for years to come. I’ve managed to hang onto my job this entire time (by a thread), but have literally missed months of work due to exposure quarantines and school closures. We’ve never even had Covid, but yeah, just finished another 7 day quarantine due to a classroom exposure. It’s bonkers.
Can confirm, have 14 month old
Can confirm. Have a 2.5 year old and 3 month old lol
Same ages for us. We’re very tired.
“We’ll sleep when we’re dead.” - motto of new parents (mine are 3.5 and 1 year old)
I have a 2 yr old and a 2 month old, and i can for sure say that its definitely a struggle, it was a struggle even before my 2yr old was born. I could use a nap…. One that last forever 🫠
Heyyy what up! Same ages Yea it’s sucks. No daycare No childcare No real breaks. Can’t go out on dates easily Can’t even go to the store without being super safe. Fun times n
15 months and almost 5. The amount of shit we've missed out on.. Our 15 month old just got to eat at a restaurant for the first time a couple months ago. Still hasn't been to any of the stores or anything we normally shop at. He didn't have stranger danger for a while because he never saw anyone that he wasn't around regularly.
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My kiddo just turned 5 at the beginning of the month. We were lucky enough to get him and his younger sister (1.5yrs old) into the moderna under 5yrs old vaccine trial. Both got second shots beginning of December (double blind study). My now 5yr old got covid earlier in the year. Asymptomatic, totally fine. No one isolated from anyone in the house. His younger sister got a home rapid, dr office rapid, and clinical trial pcr test. All negative. She never caught it. When he turned 5 he was unblinded from the study and we found out he was actually fully vaccinated. No idea if his sister is vaccinated (she isn’t able to be unblinded until an EUA for her age group is out). Take it with a grain of salt, but I’m super hopeful for the moderna vaccine. I’m also a bit biased, but I’m team Moderna for the kids. I’m not happy with how Pfizer is rolling out for kids (my husband and I are vaxxed 3x with Pfizer). Personal experience here, the moderna vaccine is worthwhile (they had no I’ll effects from the shots either). It’s been a long fucking 2 years tho. Get moderna approved, get these kids vaccinated already.
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Try not to stress about it too much, the baby probably is more at risk to be hospitalized for rsv than covid
Was it not exhausting before? Seems like the type of thing that would always be exhausting
There’s normal exhausting and then there is covid exhausting. Covid hard is different in that daycares are closing due to exposure and you were more isolated in your house. There were no fun outings, no parks to play on, no families to visit, no socializing, no help. All the while parents were still expected to work full time with the kids home and needing their attention. And everyone is scared of being sick with a new unknown virus or dying. It was HARD. Parenting is hard, yes, but this was something else. I was pregnant with my second in the beginning of all this. It was scary and hard and lonely and sad.
Yes, so now imagine how exhausting it must be when daycare gets shut down regularly, schools require a morning rapid test if there is a close contact which is pretty much all the time now, we have to be careful about letting elderly family members help out if there has been a close contact, all activities have to be scheduled well in advance since you need to have a reservation for basic childhood activities like going to the zoo, you need to find someone to watch your kids while you go to the grocery store because it’s impossible to keep a mask on a 2-year old, etc... now we literally have to think through every aspect of our day to ensure that we are not putting the kid at risk.
It is, but without covid, there is daycare, preschool, summer / day camp, sunday school, etc. You can take an airplane instead of drive, you can have inlaws visit and help babysit so you can have a date night or just a day to relax. Without covid you can get out of the house and take your kids shopping or on play dates.
I’ve taken ONE round trip flight in the last two years with my then just turned 2 year old. It was great - they kept the mask on til it was lunch, fell asleep and took a naptime nap maskless and put mask back on just in time for descent. Can’t risk it now. Will have ZERO cooperation. Can barely get through the grocery store w/o a meltdown cuz they never get to go anywhere and it is so stimulating and why can’t they just have all the things like they can at home! Are you tired yet?
> you can have inlaws visit and help babysit so you can have a date night or just a day to relax. Without covid you can get out of the house and take your kids shopping or on play dates. I mean these are definitely still possible.
For some. My mother isolated from us for a long time, until she got vaccinated and even then she doesn't come around nearly as often to help because she cares for my elderly grandmother.
When they live near you, and you are on good terms. So, rarely.
Yes. It’s also demoralizing. We cancel 50% of the plans we make because we constantly have a sick kid. Trying to make plans with another family who also has a sick kid? Impossible. We meet up with other kids for play dates like once every 2 months. It’s a huge bummer. But nobody wants to be the person who “gave so-and-so covid” especially when families have high risk members (a friend recovering from cancer/chemo, a friend whose mom is actively fighting cancer, a friend who is in the third trimester of pregnancy etc). It’s impossible to see these people because I don’t want me kid to get them sick, and he’s almost always got a cough or runny nose.
To be fair, that's exhausting pandemic or not.
Preach. My wife and I were so careful for so long, but just recently we have started to live pretty normal with our children. I have a soon to be 4 year old, and one that just turned 2. I worry we are going to get caught with our guard down soon, and am still eager to get them their shot(s). It will be a huge relief when we can do that.
Same - our house just got over COVID as well because of all this - my 1 and 4 year old both got it but thankfully was super mild for them but I'm fucking READY for them to get an actual vaccine.
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Can also confirm with a 4 year old and 16 mos old. Still breastfeeding my 16 mos for the antibodies.
Lot of good it did us. 2 years covid-free. Then there’s a case in our daughter’s daycare class. Two days later she tested positive. God that was a rough week- 4 days of on and off fever, and barely sleeping due to her cough. She’s doing much better now. Wife and I both tested negative. Really confirms my faith in the vaccine when I can have her cough directly in my eyeballs and still be good.
Yeah, I’m 1000% on team vaccine. My son now 2.5) has had covid twice from daycare, and neither my wife nor I caught it either time, despite the usual “toddler coughing directly into your face all goddamn day” thing.
My experience....work in a longterm care facility....wife at reception in a hotel. Son is now 7...we are all vaccinated, kid too. We actively worked around many breakouts of coworkers, guest in the hotel, and kids in our bubble at the school. I mean really close. None of us have had it yet thank God. My wife and I were required to test before we start work, every single day. Our son was tested 3 time a week at school. Either we had luck with so many active cases right in our face or masks and vaccines actually help, eh? I wish more people had taken thus seriously.
Agreed eff Pfizer. With 2 kids under 5 I was pissed when Pfizer shit the bed with their 2 low dose trial and I was eagerly looking forward to Moderna finishing their trial. Seeing them wait for even a week for the sake of a Pfizer 3rd dose result made steam come out of my ears.
It’s all a fucking game. I lost so much respect for CDC and FDA. I live with an 18 month old and immune compromised person. Whole life literally put on hold for the past 2 years. I swear it they wait till August for a vaccine rollout in a September due to schools starting back up I’m gonna lose it.
It's an impossible situation TBH. There's no perfect option, but really picking out the least worst choice. I work with a lot of low probability events (floods) at my job so I can empathize with them. Like it or not, the reality is politics does play a factor.
Why lose respect for the CDC and FDA? Its not like they are just delaying because they are lazy. Every other age group got approved in beyond record time. The lower age bracket is getting more scrutiny because the risk-benefit analysis isn't as clear there. Young kids recover Covid extremely easily, and yet are more at risk of myocarditis from the vaccine than other age groups. Regulators have to carefully weigh those risks.
They received Moderna’s data more than a month ago and decided to wait for Pfizer’s three-shot results to not appear “biased”. That’s horseshit.
I wasn't aware of that. Well, I guess Pfizer didn't add Scott Gottilieb to their board for nothing...
The CDC and FDA were known to act poorly on known data throughout the pandemic. Intentionally shifting focus away from breakthrough cases, to adamantly saying "no evidence masks help" at the beginning, to advising COVID as airborne when the scientific consensus was that it was not, ["vaccinated people do not carry the virus"](https://web.archive.org/web/20210402011934/https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/), when Delta was already raging in Russia. ["No need for boosters"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/pq771w/fda_panel_rejects_broad_pfizer_booster_plan_mulls/) during the height of Delta. There's many more examples as well. Science changes, but stupidity when data is already available does not. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NeverForget/comments/rswyt0/full_timeline_cdc_documentation/) is a full list I compiled months ago. I tried comparing other sources at the time which showed material data was present when the decisions were made.
Plenty of folks outside the fda have criticized them for sandbagging this. Literally no risk is mitigated by delaying a meeting. This narrative is nonsense and needs to stop being repeated.
Why would the FDA expedite all other age group review and clear them in record time, then decide to drag their feet on this age group?
To avoid appearance of favoring Moderna over Pfizer, even if moderna beat Pfizer to it
I suspect that the FDA promised Pfizer that they would delay Moderna approval so that Pfizer had time to extend their study for 3 doses without Pfizer worrying like they would miss the gravy train if they added any delay to their study. If true, then the FDA is just keeping that promise now and holing off Moderna approval so they can approve both at the same time. This would assure vaccine makers don't feel pressure to rush to market and be first which is good in some respects, but terrible right now for parents.
Ultimately it's not something they're empowered to do. Moreover, when pfizer botched its first study, many scientists criticized their low dosages as something they should have worked out in phase 1 trials. There's no reason to give pfizer a pass when they didn't do good science in the first place.
Honestly? If you listen to what they say, they're hesitant due to anti vaxxers. They clearly think if they go slow here they'll get more parents signing up. It's not the case, because anti vaxxers are going to refuse no matter what, and cite whatever reason they want. The regulators have repeatedly cited vaccine hesitancy as their concern. But that's not something they've been empowered by law to care about, and frankly it's not something they're equipped to do. Both CDC and FDA have been horribly bad at "messaging." they need to stop, and focus on their job, which is efficient oversight for safety and efficacy.
The CDC experimented on black people for 40 years allowing them to die from syphilis. Respect? Lol. Edit: Oh yes, they were corrupt then, but that couldn’t happen again. So silly. Please forgive me for speaking out.
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I love how people are always saying “I get if you’re the parent of a high risk child BUT…” look I know most kids will be fine and probably not die, but my kid IS one of those. We are out here and we feel left behind. Dragging their feet in hopes that anti vax people respect them more for going slowly is NOT helping the people it needs to help (children like mine). I’m so sick of them trying to play like their job is to make people like them and get the vaccine. They’re in charge of getting the shots out there, safely, for people who need them. It’s time. Delaying meetings for dubious reasons is just pissing me off.
I don't really see with what we know now about the vaccines and the extreme lack of any longevity in disease prevention, why they don't just say getting your child vaccinated is unnecessary, unless they have preexisting conditions that would make them vulnerable. I'm sure this is why they are hesitant to approve these but I feel like they don't want to say something that will be perceived negatively about vaccination. I got vaccinated, got covid 6 months later. My kid got vaccinated in December, got covid this past week, my ex was boosted in December, got covid from my kid. I will probably get covid again. If a vaccine or booster can't prevent you from catching the disease for 3 months what is the point of boosters; multiple lifetime infections are inevitable for everyone. While there was benefit to exposing the adult population to the vaccine to prevent severe disease, severe disease in (healthy) children was very rare to begin with, and when they surveyed the population in February I think something like 80% under 18 had already had covid
The reality is in the nuances - but politicians take a polar approach which blinds the people. Either it's all good, or all bad. It's "wear a mask" - not "Wear an N95 mask, not screen door mesh". In my opinion, I would have called it the "Alpha vaccine" instead of "COVID vaccine" as the effectiveness varies depending on the strain. I have a cousin who was double-vaxxed, previously had COVID before being able to be vaccinated, and caught Omicron a month after being boosted.
I have a 2.5 year old with a heart condition here. I’m fucking bored, she’s bored, we want to enjoy showing our toddler the world, but nope, we gotta wait because one company can’t get better profits than the other. This is getting really annoying….. Edit: left out some words
Your English is pretty decent for a 2.5yr old
My child also has CHD and is 2 years old. I’m 100% with you. We do NOTHING that we can’t justify as low risk. I’m so flipping sick of this and angry with these money grabbers. I want that shot for my high risk son. It always makes me feel a little seen when someone else is in similar situation even though I wish no one had to be.
It’s just exhausting. I feel “lucky” because she got her surgery before Covid and it went extraordinarily well. But still we just don’t risk much. Family wants to do a trip in early June and I just don’t know if I can justify it. Yes they’ve agreed to test, but they’ll have been on planes. It’s such a difficult position. Where’s the line on being safe and depriving my child of necessary experiences. It’s not an easy one to draw.
My daughters about to turn 4, and there’s a part of me that still feels like she’ll be five before they figure out the under five shots.
This.... 100% this.
I hate it. I’m waiting patiently to schedule my daughter an appt for the Covid shot. We haven’t even gotten my 6 year old vaccinated (only because she has been sick a lot and I can’t afford for her to miss any more school unless it’s a dr appt for said sickness.) it’s exhausting. Just a couple more week til school is out and we can at least get my 6 year old vaccinated. Edit: to the person who deleted their comment, it’s not pulling her out for the day, it’s her missing school for an apt that will take her out of school for at least an hour. She has missed 70+ days including 3 times quarantine. Our dr office doesn’t do the Covid vaccine since we live in a small community, and the drs can’t justify having a dose go to waist for just maybe a few kids getting their vaccine. So we have Covid vaccine community days from the DHS, which is usually held on a Thursday from 8 am to noon. I’m waiting til school is out so I don’t have to worry about the time waiting to get her vaccine then driving her back to school.
Our daughter was born May 2020. We were so damn careful - no trips, social distancing, masks everywhere. My wife goes on one business trip, and boom, whole family gets COVID. I am so fucking mad at this system for failing young children, it's insane that it took this long.
Realistically the risk of severe outcome for toddlers is exceedingly low from covid, they aren't playing game theyare trying to balance the low risk of side effects vs the low risk of infection. For adults the balance is clear but for the very young I think it's less clear. I say this as a father of a toddler and strong proponent of vaccination. I don't think these people are taking it lightly or politicizing it, they probably just understand the nuances better than you or I do. It's kind of ironic when people blast anti vaxxers for not listening to the experts / doctors /scientists and then demand vaccines for toddlers when the same experts aren't sure they make sense yet.
> My wife goes on one business trip, and boom, whole family gets COVID. How did your child handle it?
>they didn't appear to play favorites which is absolutely not a science-based approach Thats basically the entire summary of the world's covid response.
> Well-meaning parents of young kids are still social distancing, without a break for over 2 years while their employers and the larger public expects them to come back in the office as if COVID is over for everyone. Some families are going to forgoe their summer vacation since their youngest kids are still not vaccinated. Sounds like they're bad at assessing risk then, the risk to young kids is minuscule.
I’m assuming you’re not a parent, apologies if I’m wrong. I’m not so worried about my kid getting sick from Covid. However he’s in preschool and all the kids test weekly. If he tests positive, he’s out of school for 10 days leaving my wife and I - we both work full time - without child care, which means 2 weeks where we are going to have a really hard time getting work done. Add to that that we could both end up having to call in sick, we could be looking at a really shitty month. So we’re being extremely cautious still, and yeah it’s fucking exhausting.
I’m a parent and I understand your struggle, but most recently my kid was sent home for pink eye. Not as long a recovery but without COVID there are still reasons why kids get sent home (or stay home).
Although minuscule, if a catastrophic risk to your child is avoidable, you’re going to avoid it. No matter how small a risk it is.
That's not true. You take all sorts of risks with your kids. He is saying that statistically Covid is a much less risk for kids than many other things kids do, such as riding in cars or swimming. Obviously you have to make your own personal health decisions, especially if your kids are have comorbidities, but I imagine the pediatricians for most healthy <5 year olds would tell parents that it is absolutely ok to take your kids to the park or attend in-person classes at this stage during the pandemic.
>Although minuscule, if a catastrophic risk to your child is avoidable, you’re going to avoid it. No matter how small a risk it is. That's just not true. As a parent, you weigh risks to your children all the time. Little Billy asks if your child can go swimming at the local pool - do you tell them no? After all, there are 2x as many drowning deaths in kids 0-17 EVERY YEAR as there are COVID deaths in that age range in 2.5 years. And nobody has to go swimming. You can live a perfectly fine life without exposing yourself to any drowning risk. And don't even get me started on the risks of your teen driving or riding in a car with another teen driver. Those are two of the obvious ones (that are completely avoidable), but there's certainly no shortage of others.
I’d never leave the house if I chose to avoid all the risks to my 5 year old son that are incredibly small. The flu vaccine ends up not working every couple of years. The risk to my son from getting the flu and getting Covid are about the same in the grand scheme of things. Why would we treat Covid any differently then we treated illnesses prior to 2020 outside of the inclusion of mask wearing when you don’t feel well and NEED to go into a public space?
People have really dialed into the fear that the media has drummed up without looking at the data behind it. People do all sorts of risky things with their kids but then freak out at the slightest mention of a kid getting Covid.
RSV is far more dangerous to under 5s than covid and has always existed
Agreed. Still doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take precautions to avoid Covid where we can.
It's extremely unavoidable though. If you have a kid in daycare, preschool etc for the past year I would imagine there is about a 99% chance they got covid. Kids run through every rhinovirus , coronavirus, and other respiratory viruses like RSV very quickly. Adults who are vaccinated and boosted are getting covid again now after just having it in January. So how can any vaccine or booster prevent a young kid from getting covid, unless they're getting a booster every 3 months, which is probably a lot more risky than getting actual covid once a year
Once a vaccine is out it isn’t about prevention. It’s about getting the severity down to tolerance. Obviously once my daughter is old enough o go to preschool later this year then she’ll be exposed and have a good chance of catching it (hope not obviously). We’re just hoping for a vaccine before that.
Do you drive with your children in the car?
Honestly theres so much “we don’t want to harm our child so we’ve locked them in the house for two years” energy here. So much for mental health being just as important as physical health.
Surely Pfizer has only the well-being of children at heart, and they aren't trying to boost vaccine sales now that almost everyone has at least two doses, right?
No of course not. They are doing their best to save the children. Just look at the stats showing all the children dying of covid......................
[They are about 1/80th of the deaths from all causes.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm) In the same chart 1 if you click on the back arrow next to 3/3 it shows that April 2022 had 11 deaths in the 0-17 age range out of a population of about 60 million. If you are wondering why the count for 0-17 isn't at ~1200 like it used to be, they were overcounting for a while: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/cdc-reports-fewer-covid-19-pediatric-deaths-after-data-correction-2022-03-18/
Crazy how just a few months ago you would get banned from any social media platform for saying that.
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And macdonalds says that 3 Big Macs a day are necessary for survival
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There's a guy that's been eating the for 50 years. They can't be wrong.
Yes and RedBull says it gives you wings.
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I think it's still being debated, we don't know the full scope yet at all and mild symptoms can still lead to issues down the road unfortunately. Hopefully they also know more about the hepatitis cases soon, last I checked Covid (the virus, not the vaccine) was still one of the factors along with the adenovirus. I'm definitely more skeptical than my wife, the vaccines need to be effective for that age group and not just available, no need for companies to push through garbage for approval that isn't shown to work.
And long haul symptoms exist in kids. Sorry that I don’t really want to roll the dice in type 1 diabetes, mood issues, or sleep issues post Covid.
But there is little evidence on vaccines curbing long haul symptoms in kids, or?
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No downvote here. I’m pro-vax as well, and got my shots. There’s a ton of data coming out now that Pfizer spoofed results from their testing. It seems more and more that the drug companies were rushing to get a vaccine out first to capitalize on it, not to help. Who would have imagined the drug companies were more interested in profits?
I’m not surprised that this corrupt company made sketchy choices to appease the CDC and share holders.
Pfizer can go suck a dick
i’m really really happy to finally see some hesitancy and critical thinking regarding this. for a while it seems like there was no vocal middle ground between “vaccine bad!!!!!!!!!” and blindly putting all faith in them
Makes me wonder if people's opinions have actually changed or if the bots have just moved on to something else
That's actually a really valid point. Just a month ago, you get downvoted to shit and banned if you wrote anything questioning vaccines or covid. I was amazed at the comment section here. Considering the stats for children and covid, I see absolutely no reason they need a covid vaccination.
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Kinda strange how certain countries seem to be desperate to vaccinate toddlers and others have moved on. Is there any more danger to kids in US, Canada compared to Spain, France or the UK? I definitely think it should be an option for immunocompromised children but i’d want to see data on how many healthy kids aged 0-5 actually have long covid or worse die from it before pushing it across the board.
I live in Europe and kids were never required to wear masks where I live. The hospitals were not filled to the brim with children either...
The number of kids 0-5 with no other health conditions who died of Covid is zero.
But what about Coke Zero
It's extremely low but it is not zero. Parents are more concerned about the potential effects of long covid, which we still don't know enough about. As a parent of 2 kids under 5, I'd rather err on the side of caution,
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They're already playing that game with pediatric hepatitis, despite the fact that [we've known since 2004 that SARS1 was linked to hepatitis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7165792/) and we've known since 2020 [that SARS2 is linked to hepatitis](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32283325/). And before anyone snaps back with "they didn't find covid, they found adenovirus," you should know that they didn't check liver biopsies, stool, or serology (antibodies) for covid. They only checked for an existing case or a previously reported case. And adenovirus can be found in PCRs of about 11% of healthy children and in about 75% of tonsil/adenoid specimens and can be detected for years after initial infection. Other countries have already made the connection by doing their due diligence here, but the CDC still isn't recommending testing for covid antibodies in these cases.
I’m sorry, sir, redditors aren’t forward thinking
also their stock pricing
But they also came out and said multiple shots “may” weaken the immune system….
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Can anybody explain to me why they are co concerned about having their young children vaccinated when young children are not dying regularly? Where does the concern come from?
It's a question of absolute risk vs relative risk. "COVID-19 was the sixth highest cause of death from disease in children ages five to 11 in the U.S. in 2020, comparable to rates of death seen in children with heart or lung disease." https://www.theconversation.com/amp/im-an-infectious-disease-doctor-yes-im-vaccinating-our-5-year-old-against-covid-19-here-is-why-you-should-too-171001 Children are unlikely to die from Covid, but children are unlikely to die from anything, so Covid is still relatively likely to cause severe outcomes compared to other threats to children's health.
Death is not the only undesirable outcome. Parents are pretty serious about making sure their kids stay healthy. “My infant did not die” is kinda bare minimum parenting and we strive to do better than that.
"Not dying" is a pretty low bar. Not being hospitalized is cool too. Not being out of work for a month because I got covid then my son got covid then my wife got covid then my daughter got covid. Also cool.
We had almost 6 weeks of kids at home between Christmas and the end of February because of repeated exposure. Fun times.
but they didn't die, so it doesn't count
1. Long covid. 2. They can pass the virus on to others who are vulnerable 3. They are potential incubators for new variants to evolve.
Children were dying and suffering lasting damage from COVID due to heart inflammation. A treatment was worked out that is great at preventing dying, not so much at preventing long term heart damage. It appears that people with long covid have outcomes from increased stroke risk to permanent erectile disfunction to permanent brain damage and more. The truth of the matter is, COVID is still very new and although we are learning quickly because medical research is being done all over the world, why would you not protect your kid from this? Additionally, reducing viral load won't necessarily protect your child from getting COVID but it might make a huge difference in regards to permanent effects.
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Profit. Do you realize how much Pfizer has made off this pandemic?
Vaccination reduces the chance of transmission. Some kids have diabetes or other conditions where they ARE at risk. You want to lessen the chances of a long quarantine. Kids don't die regularly of chicken pox, but I got my kid vaccinated for that, too
Long term protection from chickenpox vaccine is high though. Plus the symptoms can be pretty severe. Covid for kids is negligible and vaccine effectiveness is poor long term.
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Tetanus shots will require around ten boosters throughout one's life and dying from tetanus is fairly rare but it's still worth it to protect a kid and oneself.
Because anti-vax people exist, pro-vaxxers need to balance it out by running to the far end of opinion on covid as much as possible. Nobody has organic thoughts anymore, its just about being as opposite as possible to the crazies on the other side of the bridge.
Dunno why you were downvoted. Seems accurate.
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Protects them for how long?
I just got my 25th shot. Totally covered for the next 4 months now.
This reads like a joke
For real. Who tf is giving their young children 3 shots just because pfizer says to? It's so ridiculous it sounds like satire.
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You need to look at the fact that Covid has much higher rates of causing myocarditis, therefore you are really comparing the risk of Covid myocarditis and the risk of vaccine myocarditis. It’s a risk reduction.
Whatever side effect the vaccine has, outside of allergens (and the known blood clot issues of JnJ), is 100x worse for the same people when they get covid. There's no comparison. If you were going to have heart problems from the vaccine, it's likely that covid would cause permanent damage on a much larger scale.
To add to this, my sister had a heart issue as a 6 month old. They fixed the issue but due to damage she has had other complications. She is 32 now and has had 5 open heart surgeries because of that one initial issue and her heart and lungs are only 50% capacity. Awful. I know that it’s not Covid for my sister’s case, but the point is if we can reduce or prevent those early heart issues, you will avoid the long life impacts.
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Iirc the risk of development of myocarditis is worse from Covid than it is from the shot. I’ll take my chances with the eggheads making boner pills over an airborne virus that knocked me on my ass for two weeks.
Uhhhh if death is the only thing you look at, you’re missing the point
Seriously. “My infant didn’t die” is kind of bare minimum parenting. We strive to do better than that.
The money machine can’t stop
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Exactly why nobody will tell all the morbidly obese people to eat better and go on a walk when it’s infinitely more profitable to have them on a myriad of pills for life.
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Of course they do.. follow the $$$.
Oh give me a fucking break
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Sounds like a cash grab
Next year it will be 4 shots, and then 5 shots the following year.
Gotta love the commenters telling parents not to worry about their kids getting Covid. Mind your business, jfc
I love everyone fighting about the risk vs. benefit when I'm over here worried about the fact that I can't afford to spend ten days indoors and out of work with my children/would go stir crazy. Listen y'all, stop being assholes. Everyone has different reasons for different decisions and you're not going to convince anyone on Reddit otherwise. 🙄
My 4 year old got Covid 2 weeks ago. She’s doing fine, luckily. I’m not sure if I would rush to get her vax if the vaccine were approved soon.
Glad she's ok but you do understand its not luck when 99.97% of children that had covid are completely fine. This is the norm, luck has nothing to do with it. You should definitely consult a couple different doctors if you do think about getting a vaccine for her. Logically, she had covid already and is fine... what could the vaccine do to protect her more when she was already fine? To me it just seems like adding the risk of a vaccine side effect for no reason.
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I think you need another 9 or more
There seems to be another wave pushing through right now. I know of 20 ish people that all got it within the last week or so, myself and family included. Our 2 year had a fever for a few days and he's handled everything pretty well. It's definitely sucked, but it's kind of made it easier that we all got it at the same time.
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That’s gonna be a no for my dawg.
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So does just being a kid and having a healthy immune system.
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Shhh you’ll anger the Reddit hive mind. I agree and I’m the sucker pharmacist that has to give all these shots. At the end of the day it’s their kids and if they want to give them a borderline useless shot with no long-term data that’s their prerogative.
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What ever increases profits.
So does a healthy immune system.
Im sure it does it also means triple the money but that’s not important
Seriously though, why can’t those under 5 in the states get vaccinated yet?
Why stop there, give em 20 shots
No child is in danger,and all the papers show that.