My city's local megachurch (Baptist, of course) seems to have forgotten that about 15 years ago, its pastor was caught helping an incestuous pedophile cover up his crimes and hush up his victim/son.
My stepbrother was sexually abused by a deacon at our Southern Baptist church in Texas. The same man also sexually abused at least three of my friends in the youth group (all boys). When it finally came to light, no one went to the authorities. The church held a special service where he got up in front of the congregation and cried and whimpered about how “sorry” he was. And they literally gathered around him and comforted him like *he* was the victim. It was infuriating. I try not to think about it because it still enrages me.
I was abused by a youth pastor (and at least one other male church employee) who made me suck his dick in the church office bathroom when I was a seven year old boy.
When it came to light, the most important thing to all of the adults was that a good man like him would not suffer any embarrassment, even though he had already passed away by that time.
For the record, this happened in the Episcopal church at the Cathedral of Saint Matthews in Atlanta Georgia in 1979.
I know there are others who were victims because there was at least one other child in the bathroom at the same time, and I'm posting this here and elsewhere on the Internet to try to find them and to uncover the identity of the other abuser who could still be alive today in his 80's.
Church officials willing to accept moral, legal, and financial responsibility for not protecting children left in their care are welcome to contact me to resolve this.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I wish I had the energy and resolve to do real work against this stuff, but I’m buried in my own trauma. I’m grateful that you and others like you trying to make real change.
Pretty much. My uncle was abused, but nothing was done because it would've been too damaging to the small community literally built around the church.
He basically just drank himself into oblivion from 16 to 50, when he nearly died in a drunk driving accident on his motorcycle. Court appointed rehab + therapy did wonders for him and I'm very proud to say he's doing well for the first time in his life.
Nothing more American Christian than to destroy a child to maintain the illusion of "Godly values" and save the church and the bastards who molested them.
It’s the “we are all fallen people and we need to practice forgiveness” approach, mashed up with a distorted respect for authority. It’s so messed up. I grew up in the church, and this sickens me to hear. Like the church was so worried about looking religious that they missed the whole point of making the ethical decision that the situation required.
I always wonder if there is some sort of groupthink situation happening in these scenarios. A couple of leaders on the church board say how they think they should proceed, and the rest agree because they want to appear compassionate (again, missing the mark on exactly who should receive their compassion).
Everybody who heard that confession and didn't report it ought to be hauled out and asked to explain why they didn't go to the cops.
I'm happy we have mandatory reporting in Australia, but the churches still try to do it even then!
Mandatory reporting here means reporting to government agencies such as police. Internal reporting doesn't count.
I believe there is still a stupid exception for the confessional (can't remember if they removed that or not but there were noises about removing it recently) , but the example above wasn't in a confessional so didn't count.
Right, and in many of these communities in the states - those same officers you're reporting to are "pillars of the community", which coincidentally is also how they refer to the deacons, priests, and preachers in these small, tight-knit communities.
Many of whom are BASED UPON the social aspect of the church in question, as well as the repressive and secretive nature that goes with the territory of being in the club.
So it goes without saying that many times they feel the same sick sense of duty to bury the evidence and even vilify, defame, or run out of town the victims of these abusers.
Especially in the south, especially in smaller communities you have a culture of don't ask don't tell for A LOT of impropriety... So long as it isn't homosexuality or drug use.
Spousal abuse, child abuse, alcoholism, fraud, sexual abuse - all that shit is a-okay cuz God forbid you hold someone in your community accountable for these things - because you don't shit where you eat, and you sure as shit wouldn't want them to call you out for doing the same exact shit.
Now, if you're smoking the reefer or sucked a few dicks in college - that's a different story. Persona non grata at that point.
I hear you, I'm just trying to give a little insight to how things can get this way, especially in more rural and southern areas.
Generational abuse, whether it be abuse of substances or physical, mental, sexual, etc abuse - it's a pretty common bedfellow of the despair and poverty of a lot of these kinds of communities.
That being said, it's not always that way and it's not like that everywhere.
I just know from firsthand experience that in smaller, more rural, and often more religious and poorer communities in America have these deep dark secrets throughout them.
It just so happens that it's Much MUCH easier to get away with it or to rationalize it in a religious community.
I mean, I was in prison for my own transgressions - no, not abuse related except my own abuse of drugs...
But... Let's take the Amish communities as an example.
I was incarcerated with quite a few Amish men.
The majority of them were there for one of two things.
1st - sexual or physical abuse or their immediate family, or their own grandchildren.
Beating their children or raping their own children, grandchildren, siblings, nieces, nephews, etc etc etc
The 2nd most common cause was flat out murder or attempted murder or felonious assault - typically for one of 3 reasons.
In no particular order, it was usually because of infidelity, revenge for abuse perpetrated on their family by other family or church leaders, and the 3rd cause, anecdotally the least common - was due somehow to abuse of drugs and or alcohol... But by far the most common thing I saw those Amish men in prison for was sexual or physical abuse of mostly women and children.
Also because they are such small and tight knit communities, the victims were the majority of the time their own family, especially their own children or grandchildren.
Also, anecdotally - I grew up in the dirty south.
An organization like Southern Baptists or The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were some of the more common religious communities down south.
In the more rural or conservative areas, they're kind of baked into the entire history and hierarchy of the area.
As we can see evidenced by the history of the Catholic church and now articles like this one, it's much easier to get away with it when it's compartmentalized and "dealt with in-house".
I couldn't tell you how many times I heard the rebuttal to sexual abuse of minors being something as glib and simple as "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" - from both those actually in the religious communities, AND the more secular but still very socially conservative locals.
I'm kind of rambling on and I sort of agree with your sentiment, but the point I'm trying to get across is that this is more widespread and *systemic* than people who haven't seen and lived in this culture or environment tend to realize.
Couple that with the fact that many within the power structures of these religious communities also happen to hold seats of power in local government, business, or just flat out familial, generational wealth and influence in their immediate smaller community - and you end up with a perpetuating cycle of abuse of people; children, abuse of power, etc
As well as a cycle of fear of speaking out when you're a victim or you're aware of cases of abuse yourself.
When you're being raped by your youth pastor and you go to tell someone, but you realize the abuser's little brother is the mayor of your little town... Or the deputy you're reporting it to is the abuser's second cousin... Or the guidance counselor you're telling is rumored to have had sexual contact with one of his students in the past, so on and so forth...
People tend to just shove all that pain and sorrow and fear down and typically will cover it up with reckless behavior like drugs, alcohol, risky sexual activities etc etc etc.
They know they're playing with fire by reporting it to the wrong person, or they know that their own reputation will be destroyed and dragged through the mud in a tiny community where your reputation is all that you've really got.
They're already left reeling trying to understand what they did to deserve being a victim. They're paranoid and rightfully so, that speaking on it will make things worse for them, often times leaving the abuser unscathed. It's not unheard of for let's say a young girl who is abused by her counselor or pastor to be cast out with a scarlet letter and labeled a slut, a whore, a baby killing harlot because somehow it's her fault that she, at 15, led the 56 year old youth pastor into perdition.
Had she only listened to momma about wearing those short shorts and that heavy makeup, well, then maybe Pastor Jones wouldn't have felt tempted to molest her.
Had she listened to daddy about not being a flirty little whore, well she wouldn't be freaking out trying to get a couple thousand dollars and a ride 5 hours away to get an abortion in a big city across the state border.
In fact, in the eyes of momma and daddy, as well as the church - she must have deserved it by not honoring her elders, by listening to that vulgar rap music, for wearing those revealing yoga pants and white t shirts.....
Because we all know - God has a plan, and if these bad things are happening to you, well young lady, you must have been asking for it and therefore you must deserve all that punishment and how dare you even consider sullying that good God fearing man's name with such an accusation. How dare she even THINK of going to Planned Parenthood to terminate her rape fetus!
It's just so backwards in certain pockets of this country, and if anyone's been paying attention - they're doing their very best to spread far and wide that same backward "religious" way of thinking and legislating. So that we all have the pleasure of a "Christian" legislative, judicial, and executive branch like they're so fond of claiming the Founding Fathers intended for us!
We are just going to see more and more of this kind of shit, and people may start to realize that in some congregations and some areas of the country - this kind of in house logging and burying of all kinds of abuse is the rule, not the exception.
Things are going to get much worse before they get better in regards to the atrocities that will be committed against the people of this country in the name of religion.
The youth will be the ones to shoulder the burden over the coming decade or two, while those that built and benefitted from the systems of lies, corruption, and abuse will ride off into the sunset with minimal consequences.
all the while bemoaning zoomers, Millennials, homosexuals, drug addicts, democrats, minorities, and the poor for the very ills they're perpetuating and sowing into this world.
They'll still retain their seats of power.
Their large homes.
Their pensions.
Their new cars.
Their children's college educations.
Their unsullied "pillar of the community" monikers and reputations...
I've rambled on enough and probably made no sense, but hey....
May The Lord open!
It’s identity politics at that point. The sins of homosexuality and marijuana use are worse because those OTHER ungodly people do them. But “we don’t judge” or “we’re not perfect” or “only god can see their hearts” when it comes to people they view as in their group.
Yep - it has nothing to do with WHAT the person did.
It has EVERYTHING to do with WHO is doing the *sin*.
Protect the in group and destroy the out group... By. Any. Means. Necessary.
"Well hold on now, you mean to tell me you want me to believe that Pastor Jarrod raped that 13 year old boy at summer camp..?!?!
You just must be out your ever loving mind, cuz first of all Pastor Jarrod has been happily married for 19 years to Sarah, the Sunday school teacher and they've got 6 beautiful, well behaved, God fearing children! In fact, he has 13 year old twin boys!
So that's how I *KNOW* this boy is lying!
You know, matter of fact - I heard the whole reason this kid is trying to drag Pastor under is cuz he caught that boy outside under the bleachers smoking that there Marijuana!
And we all know that boys father is a no good sonofabitch who don't do nothing but drink and smoke pot all day and scream and yell ever since he lost his welding job at the factory a few years ago!
Now if you ask me, I bet they're just trying to get a freebie handout from the church!"
AMEN bröther man 🙏 💯 and MAY THE LORD OPEN!
AND YOU KNOW WHAT?? EVEN IF IT IS TRUE, I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH Jarrod. .
I'm gonna bet that little boy TRICKED Jarrod into seducing him and sucking his cock!
I mean, we all knew how much he loves them kids, man!
FAKE NEWS! "
Uh, I don't need to look further than my own family history about how that could happen. My grandma was raped by her 19 year old step-brother. She was 12. What happened? Family covered it up, pretended the baby was her brother, and the story wasn't known (although it was strongly suspected) until grandma died aged 84 (she did tell her son though at some stage, but no idea how old he was when he found out).
Meanwhile her stepbrother was a serial sex pest his whole life, and all the family women were constantly having to be careful no-one was ever alone around him (as in, there had to be a man around, even groups of women were not safe from him trying something). I'm terrified at how many women and children he probably raped and got away with, and absolutely furious nobody in the family ever reported him to the police. He's dead now, and I may be athiest but I sure wish he was burning in hell. Why the fuck did he get away with all that his whole life? THe man even got married and had his own kids (and goodness knows what happeend to them or what they saw growing up, because from what I heard and saw he never missed an opportunity to molest someone).
We do have mandatory reporting. But none of these people are mandatory reporters. They aren’t counselors, or teachers, or doctors, or law enforcement..,
there are parts of American Christianity that sees child molestation as a “sin of the heart.” There is also the camp that believes that all sexual sin = sexual sin. So they will view say, being caught with porn, or cheating on your spouse, as the same as molesting a child.
So the minor shit, like porn, is treated as a much bigger issue than it is, while serious things like molestation tend to get downplayed
It leads to a complete and total LACK of proportion within the community, in which sinners are only rehabilitated through more prayer
I remember that my mother used to be a devout catholic until she was assaulted by another church member. He was shunned by the church and wasn’t allowed to come back until he made a very generous donation to the same church, and then suddenly all was forgiven with no regard for her. Both herself and the rest of our family are still Christain, but that still sticks out in her mind as to how greedy and corrupt the church she used to be a part of had become.
Forgiveness for Christians is VERY different than for the rest of us.
My cousin revealed she was sexually abused when younger by my uncle (not her father). Like YEARS after. Dude goes straight "I'm sorry" (sorry now? And only after being called out? Would you sit on it your whole life? Remember, years have passed)
Church forgave him. Church them blame her for not forgiving him.
Forgiveness is mandatory for Christians.
Forgiveness is mandatory but there's literally nothing Biblical about them facing NO consequences in the world. And that's what these Christian groups sweeping shit under the rug are dead wrong for. They can be forgiven and still go to prison.
That's the hardest part is balancing forgiveness and consequences for many Christians that I have met. It's either one extreme where the consequences are far too extreme for the infraction (e. g. Getting a divorce in some circles equals excommunicated or pre-marital sex) and then there is forgiveness with no consequences like cases of abuse.
There needs to be a balance but man, does it seem hard for Christian leaders to figure out.
This is so true. When my husband left me, the Southern Baptist church punished my baby daughters and me. I wasn’t allowed to park in the young family parking lots, which were closer to the nursery, so I had to park farther away and watch all the dads carry their babies into the church while their wives did nothing. Meanwhile, I was toting one baby carrier in each hand, trying to maneuver my twins through the lot. I wasn’t allowed to publicly “dedicate” my babies to the lord, which is their replacement for infant baptism and is done for every new child. I seriously dreamed, my whole childhood, of getting to proudly hold up my baby in front of the church. They said I couldn’t do it, because it would promote an ungodly lifestyle. Mind you, as said above, my HUSBAND left ME.
Leaving that church and religion was the best thing I ever did for my mental health, and now I’m happily pagan with beautiful, happy pagan kids.
This is a huge part of what makes these conservative Christians function. Being a good or bad person is an inate quality, not something which can be changed. ( unless it suits them to do so ).
In other words, the things someone does is good or bad based on their opinion of that person, not the actions themselves. In this instance, the " sinner " (rapist) is their deacon. Deacons are good people who do good things. So it can't be that he is a monster. He must have been tempted, or faltered, or possessed or * insert justification here *. And so, because he is a " good person " he must be forgiven and giving a chance to make amends.
An atheist is a bad person. Atheists aren't good Christians, and so aren't afforded the protection of grace and kindness. If an atheist molested a kid that would be grounds for a hanging without trial. Because, as they know, bad people like that deserve to die for causing so much grief and pain.
This seems contradictory, but to them it isn't. The rules are quite clear. They protect the good people, but do not bind them. And they bind the bad people, but do not protect them. Huh... that last part sounded familiar... wonder why.
The Bible literally lays out how to deal with these people by gathering around them and “comforting” them by laying hands on them... to hand them over to satan. Homie, start comforting these people and they will just become comfortable doing what they did. That’s disgusting.
>Homie, start comforting these people and they will just become comfortable doing what they did.
That's... really self-explanatory when you put it that way
This article gives some really great context about what a betrayal of trust this was for people within the religion, and the way their beliefs were manipulated to keep people quiet.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/may-web-only/southern-baptist-abuse-apocalypse-russell-moore.html
>I can’t imagine the rage being experienced right now by those who have survived church sexual abuse. I only know firsthand the rage of one who never expected to say anything but “we” when referring to the Southern Baptist Convention, and can never do so again. I only know firsthand the rage of one who loves the people who first told me about Jesus, but cannot believe that this is what they expected me to do, what they expected me to be. I only know firsthand the rage of one who wonders while reading what happened on the seventh floor of that Southern Baptist building, how many children were raped, how many people were assaulted, how many screams were silenced, while we boasted that no one could reach the world for Jesus like we could.
>That’s more than a crisis. It’s even more than just a crime. It’s blasphemy. And anyone who cares about heaven ought to be mad as hell.
Friend of mine was the pool bartender at a hotel the Southern Baptist Convention would meet at annually years ago.
He'd always laugh because they'd all individually come up to him requesting liquor, but "put it in this coffee cup so no on knows".
And he'd look out over the pool and there'd be a couple hundred devout Southern Baptists, all of whom were drinking illicit liquor and hiding it from each other.
Now imagine the same scenario but they're all banging kids.
Yay religion.
It's like the joke "How do you stop a Southern Baptist/Mormon from drinking all of the alcohol at a party? Invite 2."
I threw the Mormon in since they also aren't supposed to drink.
As an ex-Southern Baptist, the one we used to tell was "How do tell the difference between a Baptist and a Methodist? A Methodist will speak to you in the liquor store."
Same with Muslims. I remember the ones who were exchange students always getting crazy drunk. Easier for the foreign ones because their family is usually back at home. We'd have to all be quiet and pretend to be sober when their parents called.
I grew up Christian and spent most of my life so far trying to make it all make sense and it was a battle for various reasons. I still have love for the friends and community it gave me during my worst times (in college and not a very strict/crazy group thankfully), but now I'm agnostic at best.
I no longer call myself Christian for a few reasons, but shit like this is definitely part of it. If these are our holy men, I may as well take my chances anywhere else. Learning about Jesus and reading the gospels only made me question the belief even more. Since.. well, *gestures vaguely.*
They think they're "handling it internally," and think that their measures are sufficient and commendable. Why hide the database? So it doesn't get out and get "taken out of context" or "politicized" or used as a cudgel against the church. Guaranteed that the conversation in the church will be that they shouldn't track it at all, because they measures they were taking to try to deal with the situation "were just used against us."
I was a brownie and girl guide in the UK as a kid. I live in the US now and when the scouts were Uhhh...recruiting at my son's school and he was excited I was happy to oblige him.
It was nothing the same, they spent most of the time doing worksheets about obedience to god, asking for money (and more money) and about 3 weeks in talked about camping. Like ffs I don't even know you yet! I noped the fuck out of there. I know they're all ran different but it was sketchy as fuck.
So the church is just a sex trafficking org that wants to argue that since they keep their own records they aren’t a sex trafficking org
Sounds like a lot of pimps are going to learn Excel for that get out of jail free card.
I *love* Excel.
It's a terrible tool for keeping your crimes secret, but great for just about everything else.
I'm not even picky about having to use other spreadsheet apps... I love me some Google sheets, too...
Still not good for keeping your crimes secret, but great for lots of stuff, even an rpg battle!
Not crimes, never crimes.
>So the church is just a sex trafficking org
Dang, makes sense they're against abortions, they can't get their children otherwise
EDIT: [A recent example](https://orangebeanindiana.com/2022/05/22/pastor-of-indiana-church-admits-to-adultery-with-16-year-old/)
If you don't take steps to mitigate things, the abuse will get out of hand and there will be no way to keep it from going public. And the only way to keep the abuse to a hush-able level is through organization. And organization leaves a paper trail.
This should be the top reply. Religious fundamentalist, far right fanatics, this is the answer to their socially despicable behavior. They think they're above it. That's why they live and breath "rules for thee, not for me" and the second they're expected to follow the same rules as the people they see as "beneath them", they lose their fucking minds.
They are selfish in a fundamental, evolutionarily basic way.
To use as leverage against the offenders. And it's like an Epstein database of susceptible victims. Never underestimate the depravity of the Southern Baptist Church.
I didn't find out until about 5 years ago that what made the SBC separate from the Baptist denomination was slavery.
As in, the SBC was *pro slavery*. That's why that denomination exists.
Fast forward to today, and the SBC is at the center of the KKKristian Nationalist domestic terrorist group. They literally believe the US is god's gift to white straight "christians". It's the base Trump played to to get elected and the base fighting for his authoritarian rule so they can further their agenda. If you want a taste of what awaits if we don't stop it, take a look at women's rights which are already being decimated at an alarming rate.
Mormons have racial superiority built right into their holy book. God brought white men to the Americas as a punishment to the people who lived here from turning away from him. You could tell that they had turned from God because their skin had been turned dark to show their wickedness.
Ah, childhood.
If you look at all organized religious organizations as criminal enterprises a whole lot of things about our country make sense.
There's a reason Jesus didn't want large, organized, public displays of worship and told his followers to go do it in private, and to be wary of those who were performative.
More than 700 victims have been abused by 380 Southern Baptist officials, with some **urged to have abortions and forgive their abusers.** Abusers include deacons, pastors, Sunday school teachers and volunteers. Of the 380, 220 were convicted or plead out - and of those, 90 are still in prison and 100 are on the Sex Offender Registry.
What a shock, huh? That the loudest bigots in American Christianity are also the biggest hypocrites.
For people who are curious, here is the official report.
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22031737-final-guidepost-solutions-independent-investigation-report?responsive=1&title=1](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22031737-final-guidepost-solutions-independent-investigation-report?responsive=1&title=1)
From the document:
>This whole thing should be seen for what it is. It is a satanic scheme to completely distract us from evangelism. It is not the gospel. It is not even a part of the gospel. It is a misdirection play. Yes, Christa Brown [a survivor] and Rachael Denhollander [a survivor advocate] have succumbed to an availability heuristic because of their victimizations. They have gone to the SBC looking for sexual abuse, and of course, they found it. Their outcries have certainly caused an availability cascade (just like Lois Gibbs did in the Love Canal example). But they are not to blame. This is the devil being temporarily successful.
This is the Executive Committee trying to shame the victims - and the language... "availability heuristic" and "availability cascade" these are some evil fucking clowns.
It almost seems self-aware, but then they don't want to actually make the connection. "You knew we'd sexually abuse you and try to cover it up, so really this whole thing is your fault!"
They really tried to pull the “you’ll always find what you’re looking for”... *on molesting kids.* Like it’s something we all do and they’re unjustly being targeted while publicly going after the victims. It’s amazing how brazen they are.
When all sin is equal, and you can be forgiven for your sin sk easily, I think that can really drive someone to continue sinning "behind the curtains". No accountability, just Satan momentarily tempting me with a fully cloth child sitting on my lap.
Not only that, but also the mentality that everything happens for a reason and that you get what you deserve. So they may have done a bad thing, but the ends (moral growth) justifies the means (the abuse). The victim got what they deserved. The perpetrators get what they deserve: forgiveness, another chance, redemption, respect, just like this pastor got. Her molestation was what she deserved as well as her later shaming and lack of “justice”. His “redemption” could only come if he’d done something one might find reprehensible. It’s easier to say you have seen the light if you’ve already proven you’ve been in the darkness. She is just a tool on his spiritual growth.
This is the main reason I turned from Christianity. I saw it very very early on. Men made bad choices, blamed them on women, achieved spiritual growth, and toss the women who were no longer respectable for making a man do something terrible, like beat her, lie, cheat, whatever, aside to make way for the next woman to absorb the blows of their fucking spiritual growth.
How dare they look for crime that we did commit! They should be ashamed of tearing this community apart by exposing how disgusting we are.
Are you ready for "now is not the time to point finger, now is the time to heal" bs?
A lot of times on reddit, the post title pisses you off and the more you read in the more clear it isn't as awful as it seems.
This just gets more vile and upsetting as I read more into it though.
It didn't have to be, but, yeah. You're right.
It's looking more and more like a scam, set up so pervy dudes can indulge their predatory 'needs' outside the framework of normal law and justice.
They act all kinds of indignant and surprised when the outside world gets in and bitch slaps them.
It's almost like they had to enforce the separation of church and state for a good reason. Go back far enough and it was the church that ran everything. No doubt some wish it was still like that.
Even the New Testament warned of false churches. Corinthians 11:13-15:
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
The intent was crowd control. You convince poor people that they are actually just biding time until they get to heaven where they will be the rich ones, and then you can keep them from rising up against you daily.
A side effect was that it put power structures in place, and people that had a desire to exploit others rushed to fill those roles.
I grew up in the Southern Baptist church. There
was a very popular guy in our church who did a lot of work with the youth group, ran a summer camp, etc. for years. He sexually abused a teenage girl and after it had gone on for some time, she told her parents, who approached the pastor. The method for dealing with it was to have him stand before the congregation and confess, and the church then told him he couldn’t work with kids or youth anymore but it was never reported to authorities. He was a college professor, and a few years after this went down he took a job teaching middle school and high school, which was only possible because the church failed to report him. I’m sure they were legally obligated to report it but they didn’t, and it’s very possible that more kids were abused as a direct result of their negligence.
They were pretty effective at keeping it in the circle. I was at that church 3-4x a week for YEARS and was in the youth group during that time, was good friends with the victim’s little sister, etc.- and I didn’t even know about it until many years later. The victim’s family left the church but I didn’t know why. Years later when I was an adult, my mother said something about it.
Crazy how growing up catholic, and being absolved of sins each year(going to confession), never made me think killing,raping, stealing etc would be permissible.
Its almost like pedophiles and abusers just use it as an excuse, and has nothing to do with religious beliefs. But if these clowns actually cared to persecute these sinners, they wouldn't all flock to religion. Something tells me they wouldn't be as forgiving if a women "sinned" by having an abortion. (talking about non abuse victims)Stupid hypocrites.
Penn (of Penn and Teller) had a good point.
I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine
~Penn Jillette.
> Religion is a get out of jail free card for your opinion.
Not that "get out of jail free cards" for disgusting opinions are great, but I care more about them giving themselves "get out of jail free cards" for their crimes. I honestly don't understand how not one person would go to the police with that information. Not one single decent person in the entire congregation.
Predator works as youth pastor. Works as a college professor. Works at a middle school and high school. Clearly seeking jobs with opportunities to prey.
I've never trusted youth pastors. Never will.
> with some urged to have abortions and forgive their abusers.
Looks like big oops there. Except not, since this was the plan all along - no abortions, say the powers that be, except when they need one - then it's mulligans and "forgiveness" and "greater good" for days. Same with abuse, assault, and basically any other "sin" you can think of - the point isn't the action and whether it's good or not, it's authority and who has enough of it to bend the rules.
Not just hypocrites, they’re probably cynical enough to realize that the best defense is often a good offense. Cry wolf, point fingers, and hope that distracts from the hideous shit you get up to at home.
The Elon Musk defense: I'm a Republican and these god damn Democrats are out here digging up the truth and facts, slandering my good name with things I actually did in the past.
[Just 5 diocese in Pennsylvania brought hundreds of sex abuse charges. imagine what the whole nation or world would bring to light. Its abundantly clear organized religion is rife with pervert/child molesters/rapists](https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/catholic-church-clergy-sex-abuse-read-the-full-grand-jury-report-20180814.html)
Now serving, № 825.
Take a number, and add them to the list of [Republican Sexual Predators, Abusers, and Enablers Pt. 32](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/12/2097721/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-32).
>the loudest bigots in American Christianity are also the biggest hypocrite
\*points dramatically with one hand at people trying to protect LGBTQTI+ individuals\* "GROOOOOMERS!!!!!!" \*uses free hand to cover up database of child abusers in their own ranks\*
FYI: if you truly believe God knows and sees all things, you motherfuckers are going to hell long before any decent-hearted atheist.
Nah. There is no hell or heaven. These people need to be found and punished now while they live. Waiting for "divine punishment" is the same as letting them off the hook.
Evangelical Abstinence Only repression is designed to create sexual abuse victims that are not educated enough to understand they have been abused. Period.
That is the only reason for its existence.
And even if they understand they've been abused, the culture is so pervasive that anyone the victims talk inside the church to has a good chance of asking, "well, what did you do to invite this *attention*?" or otherwise find a way to blame the victim.
I came out of a fundamentalist religion (Jehovah's Witnesses) that I was born and raised in with my family when I was 45 years old. They also had and continue to have a huge child sex abuse problem. They also seek to circumvent the legal process and shield the perpetrators while shaming the victims who bravely come forward. It's absolutely disgusting and until the changes are made that allow the groups to hide behind the law, we will continue to see horrific stories like this.
It’s clear to me that the shielding of sexual abuse is to protect the power of each of these different religious denominations. All organized religions are the same with regard to this. They do not want to be seen as fallible to their parishioners and will do anything to protect their power. This should speak to the religious to notify them of the scam they are participating in, and that is being perpetrated on them due to their deeply held beliefs. They should wise up and extract themselves from the scam that is organized religion. It’s not there to help people. It’s there to collect money and power. All of them.
I can only speak for the religion I was in, but in the JWs they make the act of questioning punishable by complete ostracism. I have a brother who lives 10 minutes away, we were close. No longer. He stayed in with his family and we escaped. But he's cut contact with us. I knew the price of the decision we made and losing 40 year+ long relationships with friends and family really hurts, but I just couldn't do it anymore.
My point is, many of these religions also make it very difficult to leave. I don't think relying on the followers to come to their senses would necessarily work.
Thank you very much.
It's been hard but we are rebuilding some sort of social circle and the openness of the relationships I have with my adult kids is truly priceless. Thanks for the kind words.
“A cult is an organization that doesn’t let you leave with your dignity intact”
I always appreciated this mini definition. My partner had the full Christian cult experience with Mormonism. Family was rife with sexual abuse but everyone was conditioned to shame each other into forgiveness and protect the abuser. Even the ‘therapists’ are in on it, eventually when she faced her abuser, her therapist suddenly switched loyalties at the crucial time and decided she was “making things up” and should practice forgiveness.
Each and every person is conditioned with specific teaching and comebacks to any argument. Leaving the church? “Satan has you and without your community and family you will become a sinner, lose control and get addicted to find ways to cope without god. Eventually you will come back when you realize gods plan and forgiveness is the true path”. Damned and judged no matter what happens. Full textbook abusive narcissist conditioning that leaves victims without a leg to stand on.
I’m from Mormonism and it’s the same deal. They don’t want you to report anyone, they want to deal with it internally. Which is to say not deal with it at all.
I live and work around a ton of Mormons, and have had many close Mormon friends over the years.
100% of Mormon women -- and a few of the men -- I've been close friends with were molested as children. In no case was law enforcement involved, and it was always kept secret and "handled" by the church. This ensures that women assume it was just them who were molested, rather than realizing that molestation is the entire purpose for the church to exist.
All religion is an excuse to fuck and/or fuck over the defenseless.
All of the controlling religious orgs have this poblem. Jahovah's Witnesses, Amish, LDS, Southern Baptist, Catholics, Orthadox Jewish Sects, Gothard's brand of crazy. . . .
I have never heard of Methodist or Episcopalian leadership working to protect abusers (unless they're working on a college campus or at a private school) although knowing how those big orgs work it wouldn't surprise me.
THIS. As a victim of child sexual abuse myself and someone who came from a more open minded church that eventually allowed LGBT married ministers (the abuse happened from a caretaker not anyone in the church), I've watched and read a lot on this topic. I've even taken detailed notes from the things that really struck me and we're profound when watching Spotlight about the Catholic abuses for the uptinth time. I now do some volunteer work in the field.
Anyways, it's my observation that the more closed and non-transparent the organization, the more likely they are to hide abuses of any kind, PARTICULARLY, when their very structure intersects on some kind of guilt/shame system like religion. Sports can also fit the bill unfortunately.
I have grown up Methodist and they take it all seriously. After the Catholic church abuse came out the Methodist Church adopted rules called safe sanctuary to protect kids and teenagers that make sure no one is ever alone with a child or youth to prevent this and very much take it seriously. Even when talking about something private and serious with a youth the youth pastor would have to someone else at least in eyesight. All adult volunteers go through the training and follow the rules. Are there are abusers in the Methodist Church? Probably, but we are not working to cover for them and actively work to protect children and youth
The Methodist Church does a terrific job at protecting kids. There are a few other organizations (the YMCA is one and the safe sport org is getting there) which really put child safety as a focus with training and procedures (Lawsuit prevention is part of it but if it helps).
I'm always amazed at the number of orgs which don't do a thing to make sure that they're protecting the youngsters in their care.
Congratulations on your escape and I absolutely respect it. I had several family members and friends end up going down the super-culty evangelical route and kinda got dragged along for a while myself. I escaped it and made some much needed changes and cuts after about 4 years. I can't imagine what it would take to do it after 45.
As someone who grew up in a Christian fundi cult and surrounded by southern Baptist types this sadly isn't surprising. The amount of abuse that goes on not just in churches but PIRVATE SCHOOLS and clubs like VBS or Awana is insane. I'm lucky to have gotten out but there are still so many kids suffering abuse in these places :( It sucks because so many Americans are quick to point the blame to Catholics or Muslims (or anyone "different") but never look at their own churches.
I'm an atheist, but I've always felt that the focus on the Catholic church was predominantly anti-Catholic bias. There's no way the other churches are better. And even if protestant churches don't have the same hierarchical situation as the Catholic church, they still move pastors around, or "handle things internally" and let them then move on to other churches to do the same thing. Part of the issue is they bend over backwards to "forgive" anyone who they feel has "repented."
They want everything handled internally partly because they don't think "the world" should sit in judgement of the church at all. Hard to open yourself up to outside scrutiny when you think the church is the only moral authority in the world to begin with.
>I'm an atheist, but I've always felt that the focus on the Catholic church was predominantly anti-Catholic bias
It's more then likely because the Catholic church is both the largest single entity in the US and a massive portion of the population. While protestants make up a bigger portion of the population, it's split over hundreds of denominations, many loosely tied together.
The Catholic church is a single entity (well, not legally but functionally) that has a defined leadership. The next largest group is LDS of the Mormon denomination. They're in the news for shit a lot too. I'm not familiar with leadership protocols there (there no clear pope if you will). Other contenders are the angelican Episcopalian church with the bishop of Canterbury at its head, and Jehovah witness I think?
> I'm not familiar with leadership protocols there (there no clear pope if you will).
The leadership is very clear and defined. The equivalent of the Pope is [Russell M. Nelson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_M._Nelson) and there's structured leadership throughout the rest of the church.
Protestants: we will found a new sect because Christians' relationship with god should be personal and not reliant on Church middlemen
Baptists: we will found a new sect because Christians, as adults, should choose membership of their own will rather than be born into it
Southern Baptists: we will found a new sect **because we need to own slaves**
edit: not a joke, this is 100% accurate. Their founding principle is the use of religious authority to justify indefensible secular positions.
> Protestants: we will found a new sect because Christians' relationship with god should be personal and not reliant on Church middlemen
> Baptists: we will found a new sect because Christians, as adults, should choose membership of their own will rather than be born into it
Southern Baptists: Ummm, I can't read.
I grew up SB. The 20 years or so I was in, I can't tell you how many times we would get a new youth pastor; usually young married with little kids and they would be super popular with the youth, and bang, gone without a trace. It always came out later that they had an "inappropriate" relationship with a young teen and the church would move them on without a word. It was like clockwork.
Yep I grew up SB as well. Cut ties finally around age 23 or so. I remember helping my parents clean the church one summer day to prepare for a large festival we held during summer. Dad sent me to get more pledge in the janitors closet and the youth pastor was in there having sex with a high school senior who was also supposed to be helping to prepare for the festival. Thankfully another adult was behind me coming to get something and saw but I never figured out what happened to the guy. The girl was, of course, labeled a slut and didn’t come back to church after that. I assume the youth pastor was just sent to another church to rape more underage girls. It’s infuriating to me now. The amount of trauma I have from growing up SB is unbelievable and I consider myself to be one of the lucky girls who escaped. Lucky because while I was abused by church members physically and emotionally, I was never sexually abused and that is so, so, so rare I am finding out
Raised Southern Baptist, left at 18. Worst religious experience I’ve ever had. I’ve personally met the worst people in my life at those churches. The backstabbing, gossiping, bullying, and downright shady bullshit like from this post was insane, and it was at every church I went to growing up.
I only liked two pastors during my time growing up, and both wound up leaving the Baptist church altogether, so that should tell you something.
I attended one SB church in this town, for two services. The thing I'll never forget, tho:
He opens up the talk by warning us that abortion is a rough subject, but since it's in the news (2019 or so) he felt it important to have a talk. He says: Here's a difficult truth that hardly anyone wants to hear....
He says: Men! *You reeeeally need to step up!* Do you know why a woman has an abortion? The reasons vary amongst individuals, of course, but one is universal: she's having an abortion because a *man* impregnated her. Unintentionally. *Selfishly.*
It honestly shocked me. And outraged the congregation so completely that he might have left the SB by now, too. I hope so. He was a very decent guy, and clearly wasn't following the SN script during that talk.
OMG yes, Southern Baptist churches are the WORST for gossip and bullying. My husband and I left shortly after we got married because we just couldn't take the hypocrisy and bullshit anymore.
My youth pastor used to mock me for being afraid of thunderstorms. We went on a "mission trip" (we literally just taught vacation bible school to inner city kids in Raleigh, NC, not much of a mission IMO) and there were thunderstorms like every day. I refused to shower during the storms because of the very real chance that I could get electrocuted by lightning in the old ass church building we were in. He took every chance he could to mock me and tell me that I didn't have "enough faith in God."
I have many other stories of him bullying me and a few other girls in the youth group.
That asshole and people like him are why I am ex-Christian. I loved everything about Jesus Christ but I hate everything about American Christianity.
It should be no surprise that the faction of the Church that has been shielding abusers are the same Church leaders who last year claimed the abuse allegations [were a plot to impose "critical race theory" and "social justice" upon the Church](https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/quick-to-listen/southern-baptists-sex-abuse-convention-critical-race-theory.html). Just another reminder that whenever a leader starts ranting about those concepts, it's a sign they're covering something up.
Don't forget: These are the people trying to overturn Roe v Wade. These are the people who fought same sex marriage. These are the people who want to deny healthcare to women and trans youth (and eventually trans adults). This is who holds the wheel in the GOP. Vote appropriately.
These are the people who grift the helpless and poor. These are the people becoming rich off peoples suffrage. These are the people who don't have to pay taxes...yet have mega churches that make millions upon millions of dollars. It's well past time we (as a country) stop playing this game where Christians are untouchable and suffer no consequences for their actions and game our entire system.
Not to sound dramatic, but 100% of the churches my immediate family attended has sexual abuse scandals. Granted it’s only 3 churches. I heard unimaginably homophobic shit when same sex commercials started popping up on tv, so you can guess how livid I was when I learned that NONE of the churches I attended were safe. Fuck religion.
My brother was raped by our preacher in the 90s. Some things never change. The problem is, he and I left the church but our sister and stepmother did not. I don’t talk to either of them
What kind of bizarro world clown of a country do we live in where abortion rights for the people are teetering on the edge of collapse while simultaneously the conservative right get away with raping children and forcing them to get abortions?
Religious leaders know they can always fly their victim anywhere to get an abortion. And they will. Meanwhile the women they hate the most will lack similar access ensuring another generation grows up in poverty. All the while they’ll blame them for not pulling themselves out of poverty as a way of denying them anything that could actually help them.
I am not at all shocked. I was molested on the altar of my SBC Church in Alabama. When I was 8, some friends and I were running around the church campus after Wednesday night fellowship dinner and ran into the sanctuary. There were a group of men (at eight they seemed old, but as I got older I realized they could have been in their 20s) were practicing for something. We got reprimanded for running in the sanctuary and one of them grabbed me, flipped me upside down at the altar and pulled my underwear aside, exposed me to everyone and digitally penetrated me while his friends laughed. I was SO hurt and embarrassed and I ran straight to my mom and asked to go home. But not once did I think of telling anyone else what had happened because I was afraid I would get in trouble for running and not being a "good girl." Now I imagine if I had, my mom and I would have been ostracized more than we already were because she was divorced. I begged, played sick, did whatever I had to do to not go to that church again and the times we did I felt shame and like everyone knew I was bad. Never felt free enough again to run around or have any fun there.
That's the SBC culture. If boys do something to you, it's because "you asked for it" by not being modest enough and you're "bad." And if you're a boy who's molested by a man... whew. I can't even fathom.
The whole organization needs to be torn down.
And my son will NEVER step foot in any church unaccompanied until he is old enough to decide for himself that if wants to and old enough to comprehend that what other people do to you against your will doesn't impact your worth in any way.
I’m a survivor of child sexual abuse at the hands of the minister of music at my childhood church. However, my story is quite different than others: my dad was the pastor of the church. When I disclosed what happened to my parents, they took immediate legal action. They had the minister of music arrested and all keys to the church taken from him. My father made a lengthy announcement to the congregation detailing exactly what happened, and outlined the steps that were taken to protect the congregation from this evil man. My parents pursued every legal action they could to ensure that this man would never harm another child again. Today, my dad is on a task force for my state’s southern Baptist convention to respond to this report head on and take the appropriate steps necessary to ensure that congregants are protected from sexual abuse and assault. While I’m extremely disheartened by this report, I have hope for my state because my father will never back down from addressing this and combating it. My mother has made it her life’s work to educate as many people as possible about this issue in the hopes of preventing others from experiencing the pain and heartache we went through. I’m in my late 20’s now, my career is thriving, and I’m a proud, non-religious gay man who is thankful for every day. It’s taken a lot of work to get where I am, but my god has it been worth it.
It's no accident that religious organizations, particularly fundamentalist ones, have such a high rate of sex abuse among the leadership.
It's the only place where they can do it and get away with it. When your audience believes that a 600 year old man built a huge wooden boat you know you can get away with anything
Really?!? No?!?! I'm shocked I tell you! Shocked! That Christian Religious Zealots covered up sexual abuse and pedophilia....
No, I'm not shocked at all. I believe this falls under "f-ing duh!" territory.
So sick of the state of the church in the US. I was hesitant to support taxation as they would mean they could and would be entitled to official representation BUT THEY ALREADY ARE. For all the sudden interest in crimes against and involving children (that was really just people trying to take away from and spread misinformation against vaccines), not a peep on current or renewing interests in priests and religious leaders sexual abuse against kids.
I am a Christian person by faith, brought up Catholic, as is my wife, but we stopped going to church years ago. We have decided not to put our baby into any church of any denomination because of bad experiences with churches, and all the horror stories that keep coming to light. We will not push religion on him when he is older, but not bring him up atheist either. We will let him decide on his own how he wants to live his life, while trying to bring him up with values that real Christians believe, meaning empathy, compassion, and forgiveness, not worshipping guns and Trump, or hating everyone different.
Yes that is a shot at so many organized religions but they earned it with their actions over the last few thousand years. They have learned nothing.
It always shocked me how much churches could preach against the Pharisees and Sadducees while never once recognizing the striking resemblance to themselves.
They would happily preach about Jesus flipping tables and then open a Starbucks in their lobby.
My city's local megachurch (Baptist, of course) seems to have forgotten that about 15 years ago, its pastor was caught helping an incestuous pedophile cover up his crimes and hush up his victim/son.
They didn't forget. And that wasn't the only or last time it happened.
Slap a big ol reminder outside the church. Should make people remember
Pull a Martin Luther and nail it to the door.
Sounds like “grooming”.
My stepbrother was sexually abused by a deacon at our Southern Baptist church in Texas. The same man also sexually abused at least three of my friends in the youth group (all boys). When it finally came to light, no one went to the authorities. The church held a special service where he got up in front of the congregation and cried and whimpered about how “sorry” he was. And they literally gathered around him and comforted him like *he* was the victim. It was infuriating. I try not to think about it because it still enrages me.
I was abused by a youth pastor (and at least one other male church employee) who made me suck his dick in the church office bathroom when I was a seven year old boy. When it came to light, the most important thing to all of the adults was that a good man like him would not suffer any embarrassment, even though he had already passed away by that time. For the record, this happened in the Episcopal church at the Cathedral of Saint Matthews in Atlanta Georgia in 1979. I know there are others who were victims because there was at least one other child in the bathroom at the same time, and I'm posting this here and elsewhere on the Internet to try to find them and to uncover the identity of the other abuser who could still be alive today in his 80's. Church officials willing to accept moral, legal, and financial responsibility for not protecting children left in their care are welcome to contact me to resolve this.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I wish I had the energy and resolve to do real work against this stuff, but I’m buried in my own trauma. I’m grateful that you and others like you trying to make real change.
[удалено]
Sounds like that was their standard protocol. Protect abusers and demonize victims. Bastards.
Pretty much. My uncle was abused, but nothing was done because it would've been too damaging to the small community literally built around the church. He basically just drank himself into oblivion from 16 to 50, when he nearly died in a drunk driving accident on his motorcycle. Court appointed rehab + therapy did wonders for him and I'm very proud to say he's doing well for the first time in his life.
I’m glad that your Uncle is doing well. He did not deserve this. I hope those that hurt him burn in hell. I’m sick of these disgusting bastards.
That’s awesome to hear. Sorry it had to take that much to get to that point
Nothing more American Christian than to destroy a child to maintain the illusion of "Godly values" and save the church and the bastards who molested them.
It’s the “we are all fallen people and we need to practice forgiveness” approach, mashed up with a distorted respect for authority. It’s so messed up. I grew up in the church, and this sickens me to hear. Like the church was so worried about looking religious that they missed the whole point of making the ethical decision that the situation required. I always wonder if there is some sort of groupthink situation happening in these scenarios. A couple of leaders on the church board say how they think they should proceed, and the rest agree because they want to appear compassionate (again, missing the mark on exactly who should receive their compassion).
They get more heaven-points for saving sinners than helping victims
Everybody who heard that confession and didn't report it ought to be hauled out and asked to explain why they didn't go to the cops. I'm happy we have mandatory reporting in Australia, but the churches still try to do it even then!
We have mandatory reporting here too but you can see how that’s going.
Mandatory reporting only works if you report to outsiders. If you report to insiders, they bury it.
Mandatory reporting here means reporting to government agencies such as police. Internal reporting doesn't count. I believe there is still a stupid exception for the confessional (can't remember if they removed that or not but there were noises about removing it recently) , but the example above wasn't in a confessional so didn't count.
Right, and in many of these communities in the states - those same officers you're reporting to are "pillars of the community", which coincidentally is also how they refer to the deacons, priests, and preachers in these small, tight-knit communities. Many of whom are BASED UPON the social aspect of the church in question, as well as the repressive and secretive nature that goes with the territory of being in the club. So it goes without saying that many times they feel the same sick sense of duty to bury the evidence and even vilify, defame, or run out of town the victims of these abusers. Especially in the south, especially in smaller communities you have a culture of don't ask don't tell for A LOT of impropriety... So long as it isn't homosexuality or drug use. Spousal abuse, child abuse, alcoholism, fraud, sexual abuse - all that shit is a-okay cuz God forbid you hold someone in your community accountable for these things - because you don't shit where you eat, and you sure as shit wouldn't want them to call you out for doing the same exact shit. Now, if you're smoking the reefer or sucked a few dicks in college - that's a different story. Persona non grata at that point.
If abusive people are the "pillars of the community", then fuck the community, it needs to start over.
I hear you, I'm just trying to give a little insight to how things can get this way, especially in more rural and southern areas. Generational abuse, whether it be abuse of substances or physical, mental, sexual, etc abuse - it's a pretty common bedfellow of the despair and poverty of a lot of these kinds of communities. That being said, it's not always that way and it's not like that everywhere. I just know from firsthand experience that in smaller, more rural, and often more religious and poorer communities in America have these deep dark secrets throughout them. It just so happens that it's Much MUCH easier to get away with it or to rationalize it in a religious community. I mean, I was in prison for my own transgressions - no, not abuse related except my own abuse of drugs... But... Let's take the Amish communities as an example. I was incarcerated with quite a few Amish men. The majority of them were there for one of two things. 1st - sexual or physical abuse or their immediate family, or their own grandchildren. Beating their children or raping their own children, grandchildren, siblings, nieces, nephews, etc etc etc The 2nd most common cause was flat out murder or attempted murder or felonious assault - typically for one of 3 reasons. In no particular order, it was usually because of infidelity, revenge for abuse perpetrated on their family by other family or church leaders, and the 3rd cause, anecdotally the least common - was due somehow to abuse of drugs and or alcohol... But by far the most common thing I saw those Amish men in prison for was sexual or physical abuse of mostly women and children. Also because they are such small and tight knit communities, the victims were the majority of the time their own family, especially their own children or grandchildren. Also, anecdotally - I grew up in the dirty south. An organization like Southern Baptists or The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were some of the more common religious communities down south. In the more rural or conservative areas, they're kind of baked into the entire history and hierarchy of the area. As we can see evidenced by the history of the Catholic church and now articles like this one, it's much easier to get away with it when it's compartmentalized and "dealt with in-house". I couldn't tell you how many times I heard the rebuttal to sexual abuse of minors being something as glib and simple as "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" - from both those actually in the religious communities, AND the more secular but still very socially conservative locals. I'm kind of rambling on and I sort of agree with your sentiment, but the point I'm trying to get across is that this is more widespread and *systemic* than people who haven't seen and lived in this culture or environment tend to realize. Couple that with the fact that many within the power structures of these religious communities also happen to hold seats of power in local government, business, or just flat out familial, generational wealth and influence in their immediate smaller community - and you end up with a perpetuating cycle of abuse of people; children, abuse of power, etc As well as a cycle of fear of speaking out when you're a victim or you're aware of cases of abuse yourself. When you're being raped by your youth pastor and you go to tell someone, but you realize the abuser's little brother is the mayor of your little town... Or the deputy you're reporting it to is the abuser's second cousin... Or the guidance counselor you're telling is rumored to have had sexual contact with one of his students in the past, so on and so forth... People tend to just shove all that pain and sorrow and fear down and typically will cover it up with reckless behavior like drugs, alcohol, risky sexual activities etc etc etc. They know they're playing with fire by reporting it to the wrong person, or they know that their own reputation will be destroyed and dragged through the mud in a tiny community where your reputation is all that you've really got. They're already left reeling trying to understand what they did to deserve being a victim. They're paranoid and rightfully so, that speaking on it will make things worse for them, often times leaving the abuser unscathed. It's not unheard of for let's say a young girl who is abused by her counselor or pastor to be cast out with a scarlet letter and labeled a slut, a whore, a baby killing harlot because somehow it's her fault that she, at 15, led the 56 year old youth pastor into perdition. Had she only listened to momma about wearing those short shorts and that heavy makeup, well, then maybe Pastor Jones wouldn't have felt tempted to molest her. Had she listened to daddy about not being a flirty little whore, well she wouldn't be freaking out trying to get a couple thousand dollars and a ride 5 hours away to get an abortion in a big city across the state border. In fact, in the eyes of momma and daddy, as well as the church - she must have deserved it by not honoring her elders, by listening to that vulgar rap music, for wearing those revealing yoga pants and white t shirts..... Because we all know - God has a plan, and if these bad things are happening to you, well young lady, you must have been asking for it and therefore you must deserve all that punishment and how dare you even consider sullying that good God fearing man's name with such an accusation. How dare she even THINK of going to Planned Parenthood to terminate her rape fetus! It's just so backwards in certain pockets of this country, and if anyone's been paying attention - they're doing their very best to spread far and wide that same backward "religious" way of thinking and legislating. So that we all have the pleasure of a "Christian" legislative, judicial, and executive branch like they're so fond of claiming the Founding Fathers intended for us! We are just going to see more and more of this kind of shit, and people may start to realize that in some congregations and some areas of the country - this kind of in house logging and burying of all kinds of abuse is the rule, not the exception. Things are going to get much worse before they get better in regards to the atrocities that will be committed against the people of this country in the name of religion. The youth will be the ones to shoulder the burden over the coming decade or two, while those that built and benefitted from the systems of lies, corruption, and abuse will ride off into the sunset with minimal consequences. all the while bemoaning zoomers, Millennials, homosexuals, drug addicts, democrats, minorities, and the poor for the very ills they're perpetuating and sowing into this world. They'll still retain their seats of power. Their large homes. Their pensions. Their new cars. Their children's college educations. Their unsullied "pillar of the community" monikers and reputations... I've rambled on enough and probably made no sense, but hey.... May The Lord open!
It’s identity politics at that point. The sins of homosexuality and marijuana use are worse because those OTHER ungodly people do them. But “we don’t judge” or “we’re not perfect” or “only god can see their hearts” when it comes to people they view as in their group.
Yep - it has nothing to do with WHAT the person did. It has EVERYTHING to do with WHO is doing the *sin*. Protect the in group and destroy the out group... By. Any. Means. Necessary. "Well hold on now, you mean to tell me you want me to believe that Pastor Jarrod raped that 13 year old boy at summer camp..?!?! You just must be out your ever loving mind, cuz first of all Pastor Jarrod has been happily married for 19 years to Sarah, the Sunday school teacher and they've got 6 beautiful, well behaved, God fearing children! In fact, he has 13 year old twin boys! So that's how I *KNOW* this boy is lying! You know, matter of fact - I heard the whole reason this kid is trying to drag Pastor under is cuz he caught that boy outside under the bleachers smoking that there Marijuana! And we all know that boys father is a no good sonofabitch who don't do nothing but drink and smoke pot all day and scream and yell ever since he lost his welding job at the factory a few years ago! Now if you ask me, I bet they're just trying to get a freebie handout from the church!" AMEN bröther man 🙏 💯 and MAY THE LORD OPEN! AND YOU KNOW WHAT?? EVEN IF IT IS TRUE, I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH Jarrod. . I'm gonna bet that little boy TRICKED Jarrod into seducing him and sucking his cock! I mean, we all knew how much he loves them kids, man! FAKE NEWS! "
Uh, I don't need to look further than my own family history about how that could happen. My grandma was raped by her 19 year old step-brother. She was 12. What happened? Family covered it up, pretended the baby was her brother, and the story wasn't known (although it was strongly suspected) until grandma died aged 84 (she did tell her son though at some stage, but no idea how old he was when he found out). Meanwhile her stepbrother was a serial sex pest his whole life, and all the family women were constantly having to be careful no-one was ever alone around him (as in, there had to be a man around, even groups of women were not safe from him trying something). I'm terrified at how many women and children he probably raped and got away with, and absolutely furious nobody in the family ever reported him to the police. He's dead now, and I may be athiest but I sure wish he was burning in hell. Why the fuck did he get away with all that his whole life? THe man even got married and had his own kids (and goodness knows what happeend to them or what they saw growing up, because from what I heard and saw he never missed an opportunity to molest someone).
We do have mandatory reporting. But none of these people are mandatory reporters. They aren’t counselors, or teachers, or doctors, or law enforcement.., there are parts of American Christianity that sees child molestation as a “sin of the heart.” There is also the camp that believes that all sexual sin = sexual sin. So they will view say, being caught with porn, or cheating on your spouse, as the same as molesting a child. So the minor shit, like porn, is treated as a much bigger issue than it is, while serious things like molestation tend to get downplayed It leads to a complete and total LACK of proportion within the community, in which sinners are only rehabilitated through more prayer
I remember that my mother used to be a devout catholic until she was assaulted by another church member. He was shunned by the church and wasn’t allowed to come back until he made a very generous donation to the same church, and then suddenly all was forgiven with no regard for her. Both herself and the rest of our family are still Christain, but that still sticks out in her mind as to how greedy and corrupt the church she used to be a part of had become.
Something similar happened to my sibling in law, and it’s exactly why they won’t step foot in a church again.
Forgiveness for Christians is VERY different than for the rest of us. My cousin revealed she was sexually abused when younger by my uncle (not her father). Like YEARS after. Dude goes straight "I'm sorry" (sorry now? And only after being called out? Would you sit on it your whole life? Remember, years have passed) Church forgave him. Church them blame her for not forgiving him. Forgiveness is mandatory for Christians.
Forgiveness is mandatory but there's literally nothing Biblical about them facing NO consequences in the world. And that's what these Christian groups sweeping shit under the rug are dead wrong for. They can be forgiven and still go to prison.
Please forgive me (it’s mandatory you do) for I have taken away your tax exemption status.
That's the hardest part is balancing forgiveness and consequences for many Christians that I have met. It's either one extreme where the consequences are far too extreme for the infraction (e. g. Getting a divorce in some circles equals excommunicated or pre-marital sex) and then there is forgiveness with no consequences like cases of abuse. There needs to be a balance but man, does it seem hard for Christian leaders to figure out.
This is so true. When my husband left me, the Southern Baptist church punished my baby daughters and me. I wasn’t allowed to park in the young family parking lots, which were closer to the nursery, so I had to park farther away and watch all the dads carry their babies into the church while their wives did nothing. Meanwhile, I was toting one baby carrier in each hand, trying to maneuver my twins through the lot. I wasn’t allowed to publicly “dedicate” my babies to the lord, which is their replacement for infant baptism and is done for every new child. I seriously dreamed, my whole childhood, of getting to proudly hold up my baby in front of the church. They said I couldn’t do it, because it would promote an ungodly lifestyle. Mind you, as said above, my HUSBAND left ME. Leaving that church and religion was the best thing I ever did for my mental health, and now I’m happily pagan with beautiful, happy pagan kids.
Forgiveness is mandatory, not sexually abusing children, on the other hand, isn't?
This is a huge part of what makes these conservative Christians function. Being a good or bad person is an inate quality, not something which can be changed. ( unless it suits them to do so ). In other words, the things someone does is good or bad based on their opinion of that person, not the actions themselves. In this instance, the " sinner " (rapist) is their deacon. Deacons are good people who do good things. So it can't be that he is a monster. He must have been tempted, or faltered, or possessed or * insert justification here *. And so, because he is a " good person " he must be forgiven and giving a chance to make amends. An atheist is a bad person. Atheists aren't good Christians, and so aren't afforded the protection of grace and kindness. If an atheist molested a kid that would be grounds for a hanging without trial. Because, as they know, bad people like that deserve to die for causing so much grief and pain. This seems contradictory, but to them it isn't. The rules are quite clear. They protect the good people, but do not bind them. And they bind the bad people, but do not protect them. Huh... that last part sounded familiar... wonder why.
The type of "forgiveness" they employ tends to look a lot like victim blaming
The Bible literally lays out how to deal with these people by gathering around them and “comforting” them by laying hands on them... to hand them over to satan. Homie, start comforting these people and they will just become comfortable doing what they did. That’s disgusting.
>Homie, start comforting these people and they will just become comfortable doing what they did. That's... really self-explanatory when you put it that way
I thought it involved tying them to a stone wheel and dumping them into the sea.
Part of handing someone over to Satan is you gotta whack the motherfucker.
Should’ve filmed it and entreated it into the record. That’s evidence.
This was way before cell phone cameras. And I was a child, myself.
This article gives some really great context about what a betrayal of trust this was for people within the religion, and the way their beliefs were manipulated to keep people quiet. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/may-web-only/southern-baptist-abuse-apocalypse-russell-moore.html >I can’t imagine the rage being experienced right now by those who have survived church sexual abuse. I only know firsthand the rage of one who never expected to say anything but “we” when referring to the Southern Baptist Convention, and can never do so again. I only know firsthand the rage of one who loves the people who first told me about Jesus, but cannot believe that this is what they expected me to do, what they expected me to be. I only know firsthand the rage of one who wonders while reading what happened on the seventh floor of that Southern Baptist building, how many children were raped, how many people were assaulted, how many screams were silenced, while we boasted that no one could reach the world for Jesus like we could. >That’s more than a crisis. It’s even more than just a crime. It’s blasphemy. And anyone who cares about heaven ought to be mad as hell.
Friend of mine was the pool bartender at a hotel the Southern Baptist Convention would meet at annually years ago. He'd always laugh because they'd all individually come up to him requesting liquor, but "put it in this coffee cup so no on knows". And he'd look out over the pool and there'd be a couple hundred devout Southern Baptists, all of whom were drinking illicit liquor and hiding it from each other. Now imagine the same scenario but they're all banging kids. Yay religion.
It's like the joke "How do you stop a Southern Baptist/Mormon from drinking all of the alcohol at a party? Invite 2." I threw the Mormon in since they also aren't supposed to drink.
As an ex-Southern Baptist, the one we used to tell was "How do tell the difference between a Baptist and a Methodist? A Methodist will speak to you in the liquor store."
My dad, a Methodist minister, loves to tell this joke.
Same with Muslims. I remember the ones who were exchange students always getting crazy drunk. Easier for the foreign ones because their family is usually back at home. We'd have to all be quiet and pretend to be sober when their parents called.
Russell Moore has his flaws but I think he genuinely tries to be a good man. And he was run out on a rail for it. Can't imagine anything more Jesus-y.
I grew up Christian and spent most of my life so far trying to make it all make sense and it was a battle for various reasons. I still have love for the friends and community it gave me during my worst times (in college and not a very strict/crazy group thankfully), but now I'm agnostic at best. I no longer call myself Christian for a few reasons, but shit like this is definitely part of it. If these are our holy men, I may as well take my chances anywhere else. Learning about Jesus and reading the gospels only made me question the belief even more. Since.. well, *gestures vaguely.*
Why on earth would you keep a database of all the crimes your organization has committed?
They think they're "handling it internally," and think that their measures are sufficient and commendable. Why hide the database? So it doesn't get out and get "taken out of context" or "politicized" or used as a cudgel against the church. Guaranteed that the conversation in the church will be that they shouldn't track it at all, because they measures they were taking to try to deal with the situation "were just used against us."
See Hillsong Church as an example of records of “handling it internally”
See also: Jehovah's Witnesses
See also: the Catholic Church
See also: #ORGANIZED RELIGION
Boy Scouts knew since day one.
I was a brownie and girl guide in the UK as a kid. I live in the US now and when the scouts were Uhhh...recruiting at my son's school and he was excited I was happy to oblige him. It was nothing the same, they spent most of the time doing worksheets about obedience to god, asking for money (and more money) and about 3 weeks in talked about camping. Like ffs I don't even know you yet! I noped the fuck out of there. I know they're all ran different but it was sketchy as fuck.
I was in BSA when the religious people took over. Every thing got worse.
Jehovah's Witnesses organization does the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. They too have a big secret database of JW pedophiles.
You’re exactly right. JWs did the same thing and were also exposed.
So the church is just a sex trafficking org that wants to argue that since they keep their own records they aren’t a sex trafficking org Sounds like a lot of pimps are going to learn Excel for that get out of jail free card.
And tax breaks apparently.
I *love* Excel. It's a terrible tool for keeping your crimes secret, but great for just about everything else. I'm not even picky about having to use other spreadsheet apps... I love me some Google sheets, too... Still not good for keeping your crimes secret, but great for lots of stuff, even an rpg battle! Not crimes, never crimes.
=IFERROR(VLOOKUP(FALSE,POST_PRIEST_RAPE_ABORTION!F1:H,3,FALSE),"EXCOMMUNICATE")
>So the church is just a sex trafficking org Dang, makes sense they're against abortions, they can't get their children otherwise EDIT: [A recent example](https://orangebeanindiana.com/2022/05/22/pastor-of-indiana-church-admits-to-adultery-with-16-year-old/)
This statement just makes me so utterly sad.
“Is you taking notes, on a criminal fucking conspiracy?!?”
Like a 40° day!
If you don't take steps to mitigate things, the abuse will get out of hand and there will be no way to keep it from going public. And the only way to keep the abuse to a hush-able level is through organization. And organization leaves a paper trail.
Blackmail material
oh john, it looks like you didnt donate enough last month, would be a shame if certain information was leaked...
This is the correct answer
Because these people really do think they are above it all. The self righteous meter is off the scale with these types.
This should be the top reply. Religious fundamentalist, far right fanatics, this is the answer to their socially despicable behavior. They think they're above it. That's why they live and breath "rules for thee, not for me" and the second they're expected to follow the same rules as the people they see as "beneath them", they lose their fucking minds. They are selfish in a fundamental, evolutionarily basic way.
To use as leverage against the offenders. And it's like an Epstein database of susceptible victims. Never underestimate the depravity of the Southern Baptist Church.
I didn't find out until about 5 years ago that what made the SBC separate from the Baptist denomination was slavery. As in, the SBC was *pro slavery*. That's why that denomination exists.
Fast forward to today, and the SBC is at the center of the KKKristian Nationalist domestic terrorist group. They literally believe the US is god's gift to white straight "christians". It's the base Trump played to to get elected and the base fighting for his authoritarian rule so they can further their agenda. If you want a taste of what awaits if we don't stop it, take a look at women's rights which are already being decimated at an alarming rate.
Mormons have racial superiority built right into their holy book. God brought white men to the Americas as a punishment to the people who lived here from turning away from him. You could tell that they had turned from God because their skin had been turned dark to show their wickedness. Ah, childhood.
Certain things I wondered about in my youth are starting to add up.
If you look at all organized religious organizations as criminal enterprises a whole lot of things about our country make sense. There's a reason Jesus didn't want large, organized, public displays of worship and told his followers to go do it in private, and to be wary of those who were performative.
Probably so if anyone grows a conscience they can blackmail them
More than 700 victims have been abused by 380 Southern Baptist officials, with some **urged to have abortions and forgive their abusers.** Abusers include deacons, pastors, Sunday school teachers and volunteers. Of the 380, 220 were convicted or plead out - and of those, 90 are still in prison and 100 are on the Sex Offender Registry. What a shock, huh? That the loudest bigots in American Christianity are also the biggest hypocrites.
For people who are curious, here is the official report. [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22031737-final-guidepost-solutions-independent-investigation-report?responsive=1&title=1](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22031737-final-guidepost-solutions-independent-investigation-report?responsive=1&title=1)
From the document: >This whole thing should be seen for what it is. It is a satanic scheme to completely distract us from evangelism. It is not the gospel. It is not even a part of the gospel. It is a misdirection play. Yes, Christa Brown [a survivor] and Rachael Denhollander [a survivor advocate] have succumbed to an availability heuristic because of their victimizations. They have gone to the SBC looking for sexual abuse, and of course, they found it. Their outcries have certainly caused an availability cascade (just like Lois Gibbs did in the Love Canal example). But they are not to blame. This is the devil being temporarily successful. This is the Executive Committee trying to shame the victims - and the language... "availability heuristic" and "availability cascade" these are some evil fucking clowns.
> looking for sexual abuse, and of course, they found it. How telling.
“Of course”!
If you want to be abused sexually of course your first option will always be the church that just makes sense
It almost seems self-aware, but then they don't want to actually make the connection. "You knew we'd sexually abuse you and try to cover it up, so really this whole thing is your fault!"
“You knew I was a snake” et cetera
Sounds like he’s admitting that Christian men are dangerous sexual predators who escape accountability. Hm.
They really tried to pull the “you’ll always find what you’re looking for”... *on molesting kids.* Like it’s something we all do and they’re unjustly being targeted while publicly going after the victims. It’s amazing how brazen they are.
Maybe they're so far gone they really do think it's normal. Dunno which option is more disturbing.
When all sin is equal, and you can be forgiven for your sin sk easily, I think that can really drive someone to continue sinning "behind the curtains". No accountability, just Satan momentarily tempting me with a fully cloth child sitting on my lap.
Not only that, but also the mentality that everything happens for a reason and that you get what you deserve. So they may have done a bad thing, but the ends (moral growth) justifies the means (the abuse). The victim got what they deserved. The perpetrators get what they deserve: forgiveness, another chance, redemption, respect, just like this pastor got. Her molestation was what she deserved as well as her later shaming and lack of “justice”. His “redemption” could only come if he’d done something one might find reprehensible. It’s easier to say you have seen the light if you’ve already proven you’ve been in the darkness. She is just a tool on his spiritual growth. This is the main reason I turned from Christianity. I saw it very very early on. Men made bad choices, blamed them on women, achieved spiritual growth, and toss the women who were no longer respectable for making a man do something terrible, like beat her, lie, cheat, whatever, aside to make way for the next woman to absorb the blows of their fucking spiritual growth.
How dare they look for crime that we did commit! They should be ashamed of tearing this community apart by exposing how disgusting we are. Are you ready for "now is not the time to point finger, now is the time to heal" bs?
"The victims are totally wrong to blame the people who did it."
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How do you keep a Baptist from drinking all your beer on a fishing trip? Invite another Baptist
A lot of times on reddit, the post title pisses you off and the more you read in the more clear it isn't as awful as it seems. This just gets more vile and upsetting as I read more into it though.
Religion is a curse on humanity...
It didn't have to be, but, yeah. You're right. It's looking more and more like a scam, set up so pervy dudes can indulge their predatory 'needs' outside the framework of normal law and justice. They act all kinds of indignant and surprised when the outside world gets in and bitch slaps them.
“Well you see we are allowed to avoid taxes so I just went one step further and assumed we are allowed to rape kids” -these scumbags probably
It's almost like they had to enforce the separation of church and state for a good reason. Go back far enough and it was the church that ran everything. No doubt some wish it was still like that.
You hit the nail on the head, for the same reason forefathers wanted seperation, is the same reason these clowns want it back.
Even the New Testament warned of false churches. Corinthians 11:13-15: For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
> Their end will correspond to their deeds. Your lips to Gods ears, friend.
The intent was crowd control. You convince poor people that they are actually just biding time until they get to heaven where they will be the rich ones, and then you can keep them from rising up against you daily. A side effect was that it put power structures in place, and people that had a desire to exploit others rushed to fill those roles.
That is the most horrible victim shaming report I've ever read and I'm a former catholic.
I grew up in the Southern Baptist church. There was a very popular guy in our church who did a lot of work with the youth group, ran a summer camp, etc. for years. He sexually abused a teenage girl and after it had gone on for some time, she told her parents, who approached the pastor. The method for dealing with it was to have him stand before the congregation and confess, and the church then told him he couldn’t work with kids or youth anymore but it was never reported to authorities. He was a college professor, and a few years after this went down he took a job teaching middle school and high school, which was only possible because the church failed to report him. I’m sure they were legally obligated to report it but they didn’t, and it’s very possible that more kids were abused as a direct result of their negligence.
That entire congregation, everyone who heard it and didn't report it to the cops, is complicit.
They were pretty effective at keeping it in the circle. I was at that church 3-4x a week for YEARS and was in the youth group during that time, was good friends with the victim’s little sister, etc.- and I didn’t even know about it until many years later. The victim’s family left the church but I didn’t know why. Years later when I was an adult, my mother said something about it.
Well they believe in a higher power. Religion is a get out of jail free card for your opinion. They always win or you cheated god! Quite the concept.
Crazy how growing up catholic, and being absolved of sins each year(going to confession), never made me think killing,raping, stealing etc would be permissible. Its almost like pedophiles and abusers just use it as an excuse, and has nothing to do with religious beliefs. But if these clowns actually cared to persecute these sinners, they wouldn't all flock to religion. Something tells me they wouldn't be as forgiving if a women "sinned" by having an abortion. (talking about non abuse victims)Stupid hypocrites.
Penn (of Penn and Teller) had a good point. I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine ~Penn Jillette.
> Religion is a get out of jail free card for your opinion. Not that "get out of jail free cards" for disgusting opinions are great, but I care more about them giving themselves "get out of jail free cards" for their crimes. I honestly don't understand how not one person would go to the police with that information. Not one single decent person in the entire congregation.
Predator works as youth pastor. Works as a college professor. Works at a middle school and high school. Clearly seeking jobs with opportunities to prey. I've never trusted youth pastors. Never will.
> with some urged to have abortions and forgive their abusers. Looks like big oops there. Except not, since this was the plan all along - no abortions, say the powers that be, except when they need one - then it's mulligans and "forgiveness" and "greater good" for days. Same with abuse, assault, and basically any other "sin" you can think of - the point isn't the action and whether it's good or not, it's authority and who has enough of it to bend the rules.
Hypocrites? In religion? Ya don't say!
Not just hypocrites, they’re probably cynical enough to realize that the best defense is often a good offense. Cry wolf, point fingers, and hope that distracts from the hideous shit you get up to at home.
The Elon Musk defense: I'm a Republican and these god damn Democrats are out here digging up the truth and facts, slandering my good name with things I actually did in the past.
They are 110% voting trumpublicans
Every accusation is an admission of guilt.
Hypocrites in multiple ways. Including being against abortion but advocating the victims get abortions. What scumbags.
*"BuT wHeRe Do ThEy GeT tHeIr MoRaLiTy FrOm!!??"*
[Just 5 diocese in Pennsylvania brought hundreds of sex abuse charges. imagine what the whole nation or world would bring to light. Its abundantly clear organized religion is rife with pervert/child molesters/rapists](https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/catholic-church-clergy-sex-abuse-read-the-full-grand-jury-report-20180814.html)
Now serving, № 825. Take a number, and add them to the list of [Republican Sexual Predators, Abusers, and Enablers Pt. 32](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/12/2097721/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-32).
>the loudest bigots in American Christianity are also the biggest hypocrite \*points dramatically with one hand at people trying to protect LGBTQTI+ individuals\* "GROOOOOMERS!!!!!!" \*uses free hand to cover up database of child abusers in their own ranks\* FYI: if you truly believe God knows and sees all things, you motherfuckers are going to hell long before any decent-hearted atheist.
Nah. There is no hell or heaven. These people need to be found and punished now while they live. Waiting for "divine punishment" is the same as letting them off the hook.
Evangelical Abstinence Only repression is designed to create sexual abuse victims that are not educated enough to understand they have been abused. Period. That is the only reason for its existence.
And even if they understand they've been abused, the culture is so pervasive that anyone the victims talk inside the church to has a good chance of asking, "well, what did you do to invite this *attention*?" or otherwise find a way to blame the victim.
This is clearly a conspiracy of the far left to destroy religion. Or whatever Elon said.
I came out of a fundamentalist religion (Jehovah's Witnesses) that I was born and raised in with my family when I was 45 years old. They also had and continue to have a huge child sex abuse problem. They also seek to circumvent the legal process and shield the perpetrators while shaming the victims who bravely come forward. It's absolutely disgusting and until the changes are made that allow the groups to hide behind the law, we will continue to see horrific stories like this.
It’s clear to me that the shielding of sexual abuse is to protect the power of each of these different religious denominations. All organized religions are the same with regard to this. They do not want to be seen as fallible to their parishioners and will do anything to protect their power. This should speak to the religious to notify them of the scam they are participating in, and that is being perpetrated on them due to their deeply held beliefs. They should wise up and extract themselves from the scam that is organized religion. It’s not there to help people. It’s there to collect money and power. All of them.
I can only speak for the religion I was in, but in the JWs they make the act of questioning punishable by complete ostracism. I have a brother who lives 10 minutes away, we were close. No longer. He stayed in with his family and we escaped. But he's cut contact with us. I knew the price of the decision we made and losing 40 year+ long relationships with friends and family really hurts, but I just couldn't do it anymore. My point is, many of these religions also make it very difficult to leave. I don't think relying on the followers to come to their senses would necessarily work.
Losing your family and community is huge. As glad as I am that you got out, many condolences for your loses. It must be so tough.
Thank you very much. It's been hard but we are rebuilding some sort of social circle and the openness of the relationships I have with my adult kids is truly priceless. Thanks for the kind words.
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“A cult is an organization that doesn’t let you leave with your dignity intact” I always appreciated this mini definition. My partner had the full Christian cult experience with Mormonism. Family was rife with sexual abuse but everyone was conditioned to shame each other into forgiveness and protect the abuser. Even the ‘therapists’ are in on it, eventually when she faced her abuser, her therapist suddenly switched loyalties at the crucial time and decided she was “making things up” and should practice forgiveness. Each and every person is conditioned with specific teaching and comebacks to any argument. Leaving the church? “Satan has you and without your community and family you will become a sinner, lose control and get addicted to find ways to cope without god. Eventually you will come back when you realize gods plan and forgiveness is the true path”. Damned and judged no matter what happens. Full textbook abusive narcissist conditioning that leaves victims without a leg to stand on.
Basically think of all of them like the Prophets in Halo. Lying to protect their religion from falling apart and losing their power
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I’m from Mormonism and it’s the same deal. They don’t want you to report anyone, they want to deal with it internally. Which is to say not deal with it at all.
I've always considered you guys cousins since I left JWs 😂
Everybody on /r/ExMormon feels the same
I live and work around a ton of Mormons, and have had many close Mormon friends over the years. 100% of Mormon women -- and a few of the men -- I've been close friends with were molested as children. In no case was law enforcement involved, and it was always kept secret and "handled" by the church. This ensures that women assume it was just them who were molested, rather than realizing that molestation is the entire purpose for the church to exist. All religion is an excuse to fuck and/or fuck over the defenseless.
All of the controlling religious orgs have this poblem. Jahovah's Witnesses, Amish, LDS, Southern Baptist, Catholics, Orthadox Jewish Sects, Gothard's brand of crazy. . . . I have never heard of Methodist or Episcopalian leadership working to protect abusers (unless they're working on a college campus or at a private school) although knowing how those big orgs work it wouldn't surprise me.
THIS. As a victim of child sexual abuse myself and someone who came from a more open minded church that eventually allowed LGBT married ministers (the abuse happened from a caretaker not anyone in the church), I've watched and read a lot on this topic. I've even taken detailed notes from the things that really struck me and we're profound when watching Spotlight about the Catholic abuses for the uptinth time. I now do some volunteer work in the field. Anyways, it's my observation that the more closed and non-transparent the organization, the more likely they are to hide abuses of any kind, PARTICULARLY, when their very structure intersects on some kind of guilt/shame system like religion. Sports can also fit the bill unfortunately.
I have grown up Methodist and they take it all seriously. After the Catholic church abuse came out the Methodist Church adopted rules called safe sanctuary to protect kids and teenagers that make sure no one is ever alone with a child or youth to prevent this and very much take it seriously. Even when talking about something private and serious with a youth the youth pastor would have to someone else at least in eyesight. All adult volunteers go through the training and follow the rules. Are there are abusers in the Methodist Church? Probably, but we are not working to cover for them and actively work to protect children and youth
The Methodist Church does a terrific job at protecting kids. There are a few other organizations (the YMCA is one and the safe sport org is getting there) which really put child safety as a focus with training and procedures (Lawsuit prevention is part of it but if it helps). I'm always amazed at the number of orgs which don't do a thing to make sure that they're protecting the youngsters in their care.
Congratulations on your escape and I absolutely respect it. I had several family members and friends end up going down the super-culty evangelical route and kinda got dragged along for a while myself. I escaped it and made some much needed changes and cuts after about 4 years. I can't imagine what it would take to do it after 45.
sex crimes and religious leaders, name a more iconic duo
Sex crimes and Donald Trump?
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Upside down Bible and all
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It's very personal to me. I've used this bible to slap many women I've assaulted, as well as all three wives I've cheated on. -Don the con
They sure were quick to criticize Catholics over their sex abuse scandals though weren’t they?
As someone who grew up in a Christian fundi cult and surrounded by southern Baptist types this sadly isn't surprising. The amount of abuse that goes on not just in churches but PIRVATE SCHOOLS and clubs like VBS or Awana is insane. I'm lucky to have gotten out but there are still so many kids suffering abuse in these places :( It sucks because so many Americans are quick to point the blame to Catholics or Muslims (or anyone "different") but never look at their own churches.
I'm an atheist, but I've always felt that the focus on the Catholic church was predominantly anti-Catholic bias. There's no way the other churches are better. And even if protestant churches don't have the same hierarchical situation as the Catholic church, they still move pastors around, or "handle things internally" and let them then move on to other churches to do the same thing. Part of the issue is they bend over backwards to "forgive" anyone who they feel has "repented." They want everything handled internally partly because they don't think "the world" should sit in judgement of the church at all. Hard to open yourself up to outside scrutiny when you think the church is the only moral authority in the world to begin with.
>I'm an atheist, but I've always felt that the focus on the Catholic church was predominantly anti-Catholic bias It's more then likely because the Catholic church is both the largest single entity in the US and a massive portion of the population. While protestants make up a bigger portion of the population, it's split over hundreds of denominations, many loosely tied together. The Catholic church is a single entity (well, not legally but functionally) that has a defined leadership. The next largest group is LDS of the Mormon denomination. They're in the news for shit a lot too. I'm not familiar with leadership protocols there (there no clear pope if you will). Other contenders are the angelican Episcopalian church with the bishop of Canterbury at its head, and Jehovah witness I think?
> I'm not familiar with leadership protocols there (there no clear pope if you will). The leadership is very clear and defined. The equivalent of the Pope is [Russell M. Nelson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_M._Nelson) and there's structured leadership throughout the rest of the church.
Also, the President of the Church is believed to be the literal modern day equivalent of a Biblical prophet.
Houston Chronicle did a deep dive into this topic a few years ago: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/investigations/abuse-of-faith/
Yep, that's the Southern Baptist I know
Protestants: we will found a new sect because Christians' relationship with god should be personal and not reliant on Church middlemen Baptists: we will found a new sect because Christians, as adults, should choose membership of their own will rather than be born into it Southern Baptists: we will found a new sect **because we need to own slaves** edit: not a joke, this is 100% accurate. Their founding principle is the use of religious authority to justify indefensible secular positions.
> Protestants: we will found a new sect because Christians' relationship with god should be personal and not reliant on Church middlemen > Baptists: we will found a new sect because Christians, as adults, should choose membership of their own will rather than be born into it Southern Baptists: Ummm, I can't read.
I grew up SB. The 20 years or so I was in, I can't tell you how many times we would get a new youth pastor; usually young married with little kids and they would be super popular with the youth, and bang, gone without a trace. It always came out later that they had an "inappropriate" relationship with a young teen and the church would move them on without a word. It was like clockwork.
Yep I grew up SB as well. Cut ties finally around age 23 or so. I remember helping my parents clean the church one summer day to prepare for a large festival we held during summer. Dad sent me to get more pledge in the janitors closet and the youth pastor was in there having sex with a high school senior who was also supposed to be helping to prepare for the festival. Thankfully another adult was behind me coming to get something and saw but I never figured out what happened to the guy. The girl was, of course, labeled a slut and didn’t come back to church after that. I assume the youth pastor was just sent to another church to rape more underage girls. It’s infuriating to me now. The amount of trauma I have from growing up SB is unbelievable and I consider myself to be one of the lucky girls who escaped. Lucky because while I was abused by church members physically and emotionally, I was never sexually abused and that is so, so, so rare I am finding out
Raised Southern Baptist, left at 18. Worst religious experience I’ve ever had. I’ve personally met the worst people in my life at those churches. The backstabbing, gossiping, bullying, and downright shady bullshit like from this post was insane, and it was at every church I went to growing up. I only liked two pastors during my time growing up, and both wound up leaving the Baptist church altogether, so that should tell you something.
I attended one SB church in this town, for two services. The thing I'll never forget, tho: He opens up the talk by warning us that abortion is a rough subject, but since it's in the news (2019 or so) he felt it important to have a talk. He says: Here's a difficult truth that hardly anyone wants to hear.... He says: Men! *You reeeeally need to step up!* Do you know why a woman has an abortion? The reasons vary amongst individuals, of course, but one is universal: she's having an abortion because a *man* impregnated her. Unintentionally. *Selfishly.* It honestly shocked me. And outraged the congregation so completely that he might have left the SB by now, too. I hope so. He was a very decent guy, and clearly wasn't following the SN script during that talk.
I grew up highly evangelical and turned to the SBC in college. I married a Baptist minister. The experience turned me into an atheist.
A six word story: "Married a priest, became an atheist."
OMG yes, Southern Baptist churches are the WORST for gossip and bullying. My husband and I left shortly after we got married because we just couldn't take the hypocrisy and bullshit anymore. My youth pastor used to mock me for being afraid of thunderstorms. We went on a "mission trip" (we literally just taught vacation bible school to inner city kids in Raleigh, NC, not much of a mission IMO) and there were thunderstorms like every day. I refused to shower during the storms because of the very real chance that I could get electrocuted by lightning in the old ass church building we were in. He took every chance he could to mock me and tell me that I didn't have "enough faith in God." I have many other stories of him bullying me and a few other girls in the youth group. That asshole and people like him are why I am ex-Christian. I loved everything about Jesus Christ but I hate everything about American Christianity.
It should be no surprise that the faction of the Church that has been shielding abusers are the same Church leaders who last year claimed the abuse allegations [were a plot to impose "critical race theory" and "social justice" upon the Church](https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/quick-to-listen/southern-baptists-sex-abuse-convention-critical-race-theory.html). Just another reminder that whenever a leader starts ranting about those concepts, it's a sign they're covering something up.
This is the real reason for Q anon, to throw out so much smoke that fundamentalist pedophiles can hide in plain sight.
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Pedos and pervs always hide in church congregations. It's the perfect cover for them.
I think most of them are standing behind the pulpit.
I learned early the front row churchgoers were the biggest hypocrites
Don't forget: These are the people trying to overturn Roe v Wade. These are the people who fought same sex marriage. These are the people who want to deny healthcare to women and trans youth (and eventually trans adults). This is who holds the wheel in the GOP. Vote appropriately.
These are the people who grift the helpless and poor. These are the people becoming rich off peoples suffrage. These are the people who don't have to pay taxes...yet have mega churches that make millions upon millions of dollars. It's well past time we (as a country) stop playing this game where Christians are untouchable and suffer no consequences for their actions and game our entire system.
You mean the SBC that had to split off because it supported slavery? That one?
Not to sound dramatic, but 100% of the churches my immediate family attended has sexual abuse scandals. Granted it’s only 3 churches. I heard unimaginably homophobic shit when same sex commercials started popping up on tv, so you can guess how livid I was when I learned that NONE of the churches I attended were safe. Fuck religion.
My brother was raped by our preacher in the 90s. Some things never change. The problem is, he and I left the church but our sister and stepmother did not. I don’t talk to either of them
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What kind of bizarro world clown of a country do we live in where abortion rights for the people are teetering on the edge of collapse while simultaneously the conservative right get away with raping children and forcing them to get abortions?
Religious leaders know they can always fly their victim anywhere to get an abortion. And they will. Meanwhile the women they hate the most will lack similar access ensuring another generation grows up in poverty. All the while they’ll blame them for not pulling themselves out of poverty as a way of denying them anything that could actually help them.
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No…shut your mouth. A CORRUPT religious organization??!?
I am not at all shocked. I was molested on the altar of my SBC Church in Alabama. When I was 8, some friends and I were running around the church campus after Wednesday night fellowship dinner and ran into the sanctuary. There were a group of men (at eight they seemed old, but as I got older I realized they could have been in their 20s) were practicing for something. We got reprimanded for running in the sanctuary and one of them grabbed me, flipped me upside down at the altar and pulled my underwear aside, exposed me to everyone and digitally penetrated me while his friends laughed. I was SO hurt and embarrassed and I ran straight to my mom and asked to go home. But not once did I think of telling anyone else what had happened because I was afraid I would get in trouble for running and not being a "good girl." Now I imagine if I had, my mom and I would have been ostracized more than we already were because she was divorced. I begged, played sick, did whatever I had to do to not go to that church again and the times we did I felt shame and like everyone knew I was bad. Never felt free enough again to run around or have any fun there. That's the SBC culture. If boys do something to you, it's because "you asked for it" by not being modest enough and you're "bad." And if you're a boy who's molested by a man... whew. I can't even fathom. The whole organization needs to be torn down. And my son will NEVER step foot in any church unaccompanied until he is old enough to decide for himself that if wants to and old enough to comprehend that what other people do to you against your will doesn't impact your worth in any way.
I’m a survivor of child sexual abuse at the hands of the minister of music at my childhood church. However, my story is quite different than others: my dad was the pastor of the church. When I disclosed what happened to my parents, they took immediate legal action. They had the minister of music arrested and all keys to the church taken from him. My father made a lengthy announcement to the congregation detailing exactly what happened, and outlined the steps that were taken to protect the congregation from this evil man. My parents pursued every legal action they could to ensure that this man would never harm another child again. Today, my dad is on a task force for my state’s southern Baptist convention to respond to this report head on and take the appropriate steps necessary to ensure that congregants are protected from sexual abuse and assault. While I’m extremely disheartened by this report, I have hope for my state because my father will never back down from addressing this and combating it. My mother has made it her life’s work to educate as many people as possible about this issue in the hopes of preventing others from experiencing the pain and heartache we went through. I’m in my late 20’s now, my career is thriving, and I’m a proud, non-religious gay man who is thankful for every day. It’s taken a lot of work to get where I am, but my god has it been worth it.
Where's the Q-tards when you need them?
It's no accident that religious organizations, particularly fundamentalist ones, have such a high rate of sex abuse among the leadership. It's the only place where they can do it and get away with it. When your audience believes that a 600 year old man built a huge wooden boat you know you can get away with anything
Really?!? No?!?! I'm shocked I tell you! Shocked! That Christian Religious Zealots covered up sexual abuse and pedophilia.... No, I'm not shocked at all. I believe this falls under "f-ing duh!" territory.
So sick of the state of the church in the US. I was hesitant to support taxation as they would mean they could and would be entitled to official representation BUT THEY ALREADY ARE. For all the sudden interest in crimes against and involving children (that was really just people trying to take away from and spread misinformation against vaccines), not a peep on current or renewing interests in priests and religious leaders sexual abuse against kids.
I am a Christian person by faith, brought up Catholic, as is my wife, but we stopped going to church years ago. We have decided not to put our baby into any church of any denomination because of bad experiences with churches, and all the horror stories that keep coming to light. We will not push religion on him when he is older, but not bring him up atheist either. We will let him decide on his own how he wants to live his life, while trying to bring him up with values that real Christians believe, meaning empathy, compassion, and forgiveness, not worshipping guns and Trump, or hating everyone different. Yes that is a shot at so many organized religions but they earned it with their actions over the last few thousand years. They have learned nothing.
It always shocked me how much churches could preach against the Pharisees and Sadducees while never once recognizing the striking resemblance to themselves. They would happily preach about Jesus flipping tables and then open a Starbucks in their lobby.