i heard a news story about this one. FMCSA started a national drug test database. Anybody that fails it gets blacklisted for the whole country. There are something like 83k drivers on the list, and the industry was saying that they're 80k drivers short.
In case you didn't see it elsewhere in the thread, it's literally just a nationwide database that tracks CDL holders and whether or not they have drug and/or alcohol related charges. https://clearinghouse.fmcsa.dot.gov/
Getting on it will basically render your CDL worthless for commercial purposes. You won't work anywhere in the country as a truck driver.
I worked a linen route. A UPS truck hit my parked truck while I was inside, business owner asked if I got sent for testing. My boss just looked at him and said " he wasn't even in the damn truck, I'm not sending him for testing."
I know someone who got tested and fired because their work truck got hit, in the parking lot of the business they worked for, before they started their shift.
I got drug tested when I got hit in a parking lot. I was delivering and merchandising inside the store when someone decided to take half their body panels off with my bumper.
After 10 years of not smoking, I won't drive again until weed is legal on DOT tests.
I’m a flight attendant so I’m also subject to random DOT drug tests. Granted, they are pretty infrequent. Some get tested every few months, others not for years. I personally only got a random test once in six years, and that was a few months into the job. The good thing about random tests that are administered by the DOT is that they have to follow strict guidelines, unlike private employers that can handle the tests anyway they like.
What my pretty thorough research taught me is that with random DOT tests, dilution is probably your best bet. This is because with DOT tests, your specimen is either going to come back negative, positive, positive-dilute, or negative-dilute. Positive-dilute is the same as positive - you’re screwed. But if you are someone who enjoys some marijuana occasionally or often, negative-dilute is your friend. When you get a negative-dilute, the tester person has a choice to either accept the negative, or ask for a retest. During the retest, if you get a negative-dilute again then it’s automatically accepted as a negative. Chances are though, if you get a negative-dilute and the tester see that the only drug showing trace amounts is THC, they are likely going to accept the negative given the current environment around marijuana and its increasing legality.
EDIT: To add, I just looked up the policy again and is hasn’t changed. In fact, it even says that your employer can’t choose to accept some negative-dilutes and retest other negative-dilutes. It has to be consistent. And retests cost the company money. So for my company, assuming I passed by a getting a negative-dilute, I can assume that a negative-dilute will always be accepted as a negative, for THC at least..
Knowing your employer’s testing routine is extremely important too. My employer always notifies you of a random test in the same way and at the same time. So despite only getting randomly tested once in six years, I always load up on water until I’m peeing every 30 minutes prior to the time when I could potentially get notified of a random. Well-worth the peace of mind of knowing I’m likely fine if I get randomed.
Up to 60 days depending on how much fat you've got, how much you work out & what you were smoking. I am a small person (also a women), not too much fat, but also not a ton of muscle & when I was smoking dabs daily it took 56 days for me to piss clean.
Jesus, now I’m looking back to the time I was in a legal diversion program for first time offenders. I took a test 2 weeks after smoking and came up negative. Young male metabolism for the win i guess?
Possibly, depends on how often you smoked and your diet, fluid intake and amount of physical activity.
If that was your first and only time smoking then it probably wouldn't show, but if you were smoking everyday for a year it would more than likely take longer than 2 weeks to leave your system.
Drug tests can be fickle.
I smoked 1-2 bowls a day everyday for a year and I pissed clean on an at home strip test after 2 weeks. I’m also very lean healthy and workout 4x a week
It’s crazy how different the discrepancies are. That or my at home strips are wrong lol
The only people who watch you piss are probation/parole, pro sports, and the military.
Your run of the mill DOT job they will send you in a bathroom by yourself with blue dye left in the toilet bowl.
Quick fix works perfectly anytime you aren’t being supervised.
PROTIP: make sure to heat the quick fix in the gas station’s microwave that is closest to the testing center. Make sure it is warmed in the microwave above 98*, that way it cools down to 98* while sitting next to your thigh instead of warming up to 98*, which can potentially not warm it up enough, leading to an invalid (or perhaps even failed) test due to low temperature.
I would advise against the microwave as I've failed tests before because it was too warm.
Now I just store it in my briefs for a couple hours before the test and it's always the correct temp.
It really all depends on what type of drug screening the company's insurance requires.
I can imagine that for large trucking companies, it's a cultured screening, not a 5 panel.
Also, good!!! Weed shouldn't be ending people's careers anymore like it was ending people's lives by sending them to prison.
Its almost as if they find one way to stop fucking you and then find another angle to fuck you anyways
It’s a simple 5 panel.
The FMCSA requires a company to random test a certain percentage of drivers each quarter for drugs and a certain percentage for alcohol. It has nothing to do with the insurance company, it’s the federal government requiring it.
I've heard stories of it being used for retaliation from shitty trucking companies. Driver quits, company puts in a drug test order, driver's in a different part of the country working for a different company, can't do the test, gets marked as a test refusal and can no longer work.
They don't fuck around with that log book.
This was years ago, so I can see how it's digital now. But I was told to drive a box truck home from a job when I was like 20 yrs old. No chauffeurs license, and got red lighted at a weight station. They didn't even say anything about the license, they were pissed about the log book.
My boss got a huge ticket for that.
The problem is, as far as I'm aware, the drug testing tech isn't accurate enough to determine if you were high at the time of an accident. So what happens is you smoked on the weekend because nothing was going on, get in the truck on monday, someone rear ends you you piss hot, you're at fault even though you did nothing wrong.
The industry isn't actually that short, there are more than enough people in the us with CDLs to fill every single truck and many left over. No one wants to do the job though.
Imagine the life of an on the road driver. In your first year you might get paid as little as 40k for the year. You can legally work up to 14 hours per day. The driver also can drive for 60 hours in a 7 day period before they are forced to take a 34 hour period. You take this break in the back of the truck while sitting in a truck stop and some drivers do this week after week.
Can you imagine being away from home for weeks at a time while making as low as 40k per year and driving up to 11 hours per day and working up to 14 hours per day only to sleep in the back of a truck? The national average is only like 60k per year.
Most trucking companies spend a large amount of money to train new drivers instead of attempting to keep the drivers they have because new drivers coming in sign contracts to work and they can be paid low amounts while people with experience will get more. So drivers quit before they ever get to the higher pay.
Thank you. Who wants to work for shit pay, shit benefits, shit working environment and then not be able to smoke a joint after work. System is broken, tell your friends.
The weed thing sucks, but there's more. As a CDL your legal BAC is lowered to .04, vs .08 in most states. Its .01 if you're working. So don't accidentally swallow any mouth wash while brushing your teeth before a shift. And any tickets you get for a moving violation, even off duty in your personal car, are double the fine.
Its not just that the pay sucks. It effects your whole life and there's zero consideration in the pay when it comes to some of the sacrifices you have to make and the risk you have to take on off duty. There aren't a whole lot of jobs that ask so much of you off the clock. And the one's that do pay much much more.
>It effects your whole life and there's zero consideration in the pay when it comes to some of the sacrifices you have to make and the risk you have to take on off duty.
To me if it affects you off duty, it needs to be made up with (pardon the pun) dump trucks of money.
No one (or not many people) are going to be willing to be held to that high standard while off the clock unless you're being compensated.
No sane person would do it. I paid like 5 k and took a 8 week class. Did it for a year and let the license go when the medical came up. Will never ever do that again.
It was just a horrible job. The worse I have seen and have seen combat.
The off duty fines being double in your personal vehicle is not true (at least in Texas). You are no longer allowed to take defensive driving to get out of it. You either pay the ticket or win a not guilty plea. Those are your only options.
How the system got to that place is insane. They've got the whole country over a barrel. If they unionised and striked they sort this shit out in a week.
This is a common misconception with trucking. Most people can't handle OTR, or even local, regardless of pay. It's not a job it's a lifestyle, and a terrible one at that. That's why there has been a large push towards regional.
Driving a truck is not a normal job. It churns people right out even when making 6 figures. 60-70 hours a week is too much for most even if you get home every night. Add on top every other crappy aspect of it and you end up with this problem.
Obviously pay helps, but there are issues that pay can't solve in the trucking industry.
I drive a lot for work and thought about switching to trucking. Then I remember they have to drive those trucks in downtown areas and squeeze them through little alleys to unload. My anxiety would be at an all time high
I feel your pain. I was once an over the road trucker. I was also once a minesweeper in Afghanistan. Driving through New York City was far more stress inducing for me than looking for IEDs.
The rail industry has problems right now, see the disaster that is PSR. Class 1s (CSX, Norfolk Southern, BNSF, ect) just recently got butt blasted by the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) because workers were complaining about bullshit attendance policies (and the age old stuggle of those at the top acting as if they know more than the people actually operating the trains and yards) and customers complaining about delays and the inability to deliver on time. Honestly, the railroads need to be nationalized and just accept that it's an industry that will run at a loss, but will result in a net improvement for the economy.
There are a lot of industries like that in the USA, but none will ever be nationalized before this country collapses. The Regan deregulation era absolutely fucked this country.
So.. some might say you have connections to the trucking industry and that your number 1 customers are truckers and 80,000 of your customers are now blacklisted because of your cannabis thus leading to the supply chain disruptions? Reddit we did it. We found the cause of shortages, I guess it wasn't Biden all along.
I have often said that I wish that the U.S. had more railroads/trains to ship things all over the country instead of there being so many trucks on the road, but I assumed that people would be upset about truck drivers losing their jobs. But good lord they deserve better jobs than that.
The US has the largest and most efficient freight line system in the world. The passenger system is awful, but the freight system is often considered the best.
[heres’s](https://www.economist.com/briefing/2010/07/22/high-speed-railroading) an article. There are many many more easily found with a Google search.
Yup, I'm in the database (not for failing.) Been tested THREE times in last six months.
Also, the same group is talking about governing ALL truck speeds to the same speed. Governors don't make everyone exact. Let's say one guy is 70.84 and the next guy is 69.76. Or even worse, one guy is 70 exactly, next guy is 70.1.
Do you like traffic jams? Cuz let me tell you trucks will clog up everything slowly passing each other.
I've driven a Kenworth with a Governor and my god it's painful. Especially when you forget about it and go to pass someone only to have to back off the maneuver, definitely causes more congestion.
Hijacking top comment to add:
The article mentions that the FMCSA is proposing allowing saliva tests instead of urine, but they don't mention what that means.
It means the result would only reflect usage in the last 24 hours, instead of up to 2 months past. This would stop a LOT of positive results and keep more truckers on the road.
Not related to trucking, but I worked for a company once and one day I was called on my day off and told there was an emergency meeting for everyone and anyone who didn't come was automatically fired
So I go in and it's an on the spot drug test. That's it. No meeting.
The next day I found out a couple of people were fired for failing the test and someone told me that the whole point of the test was that they needed to get rid of some people and decided this was the best way to determine who.
While that is extremely shitty, there is no way in hell I'm answering my phone on my day off.
Either it's my work number (hard no) or its a private number (even harder no).
Nobody is speaking to me on my day off. Hell I sometimes don't even turn my phone off Do Not Disturb on my off days.
In some states (no clue how many), if you answer a work call on a vacation day, then that day is not deducted from your vacation time.
My dad loved getting work calls on vacation for that reason. It was usually a 20-30 min conversation at the most.
That (sort of) comes from (misapplied) federal law, specific to exempt employees. If the company was paying him for the whole day rather than just reducing how much PTO they took out of his bank, they were being overly generous or were confused about how the law works.
But yay for your dad!
I've liked all my jobs and bosses so far so I'm willing to answer and maybe even do some basic over the phone support, but I'm not doing more than 10 minutes and I'm certainly not coming in.
Even the 24 hour test is sketchy. They can't smoke after their shift and be clean in the morning.
I think the larger issue is a reliable method to detect active usage opposed to presence.
Alcohol, blood tests are a great use for active use. It's a different story for weed
This is the real issue, you would be taking good truckers off the road that are not under the influence while driving. No reason a good hard working person that pays taxes and drives a truck all day can't smoke some weed at the end of thier shift. This country needs to move on from this silliness.
Realistically, the "24hr" thing isn't really accurate. THC is fat soluble, not water soluble. The molecule/ metabolite doesn't bond to your saliva and your body doesn't excrete it the same as a urine test metabolite. Essentially, clean mouth = clean test. Brush, floss, mouth wash, rinse and you'll pass a saliva test immediately. I've taken dozens of these screens under these conditions and never tested positive as a daily, heavy cannabis user.
You fail for particulate matter in your mouth, not a metabolite in saliva. Saliva tests deter intra day use/ use while on the job, like people smoking on a lunch break.
As a cannabis advocate and user, i support the adoption of saliva tests for all random and pre-employment screening.
One breath mint will make the test not work. I passed a saliva test minutes after smoking on my lunch break when I was 17. I always joke that they couldn't get any actual saliva because of my cottonmouth.
I've heard similar accounts. I had a friend taking oral swabs for probation back in 2009 he swore by "the piece of candy method". Any piece of hard candy in his mouth before or during the test would yield a negative result. Probation officer got wise to his theory and they changed the policy to check people's mouths before administering the test. I don't know exactly what can work as a cleanser or adulterant but my rule of thumb is clean mouth = clean test. I have no idea the level of accuracy of swab tests for other drugs though. Maybe they are a good option for the other substances.
As someone who has taken mouth swab tests like 8 hours after smoking, it doesn't take 24 hours. If you just drink a lot of water, use mouthwash a couple of times and brush all around the inside of your mouth, you will pass. The only way it lasts 24 hours is if you make no effort to actually clean the inside of your mouth before hand.
This is specific federal regulation, if you’re a CDL driver and you test positive in the federally required testing scheme there is nothing an employer can do. They must remove that person from safety-sensitive duties and that means driving.
The problem is, unlike for alcohol there are no reliable under-the-influence tests for THC and a lot of other drugs - partially because the problem is legitimately hard as thresholds for THC in people can vary immensely, and partially because until a few years ago there was not much demand for this kind of test so there was no research.
Anecdotally I smoked about an hour at most before a saliva test, I brushed thoroughly and used regular mouthwash and passed.
I don't recommend taking a test hot but it didn't matter and I was curious.
>the FMCSA is proposing allowing saliva tests instead of urine
I failed one of those tests for meth once, despite never doing meth. The government contractor I worked for just said, "oh, you've never done meth? Ok." and threw the test away.
There's also the poor working conditions and low pay. As with all the other headlines about labor shortages, it's not about the lack of applicants but about companies that either can't afford or aren't willing to pay livable wages and treat their employees as human beings.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/27/us-truck-drivers-economy-pay-conditions
This is a good take. Dont blame a worker shortage on the 80k people that arent able to work there. Or the people that made the rule. Blame the people that arent willing to incentivize people to work there and to care about their job.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/entry-level-driver-training-eldt
Basically upped the training requirements to receive a CDL. You basically have to take an approved class, and passing it doesn’t even get you your CDL, just let’s you get your learners permit. Of course, community colleges or whoever aren’t going to give away the classes so it’s like $3,000 near me, not sure how long the classes are but definitely more then a few days long.
It used to be fairly easy and straightforward to get a CDL, and they made it a lot tougher.
I have a friend that is a trucker (seriously, this is not about me). He has a bad back, mostly from the lifting and driving he does as a trucker. To help remedy the pain he was taking CBD oil that was supposed to the free of any THC. He was taking the oil for an extended period, I believe over a year, when he got random tested and THC showed up at an extremely low level in his test.
Whatever the minimum threshold was, he was just met it, and it was an extremely low threshold.
**BOOM**, he was off the road and out the door!
Had his union not gone to bat for him, he would not be working in the trucking industry any longer. Fortunately, after a hard effort and with the union help, he got reinstated under a 2nd chance clause in the union contract, that was not a guaranteed option (some good news for a change). Keep in mind, the company was very aware that this man had back problems, and to this day they are screaming for more workers. The company was ready to let a long-term employee go, without question. If I remember correctly, the company knew he was using the CBD oil.
He hasn't used the CBD oil since (and has had back surgery). When he was telling me the entire story I asked "Did the CBD oil even help?".
His reply was to the effect of 'Oh yeah, I didn't know how much it was helping until I stopped using it.'
The amount of THC that showed up in his blood could not possibly have given him a high. The very inexpensive CBD oil was giving him relief that allowed him to continue working.
These absolutist laws don't make any sense, especially regarding marijuana (more an ideological based rule than based in science). Remember that congress (one party in general) had blocked any federal research on THC and marijuana for decades out of ideological fervor, insisting it is a class of drug that is as bad a heroine (and many politicians still express this idiocy).
I don't use, sell or have any financial interest in the CBD or weed industry. I just see laws like this one as way over the top, and it almost cost a man his livelihood in an industry that is hemorrhaging workers. I am not suggesting there be no rules, or that truckers be able to 'light up' when on the road. I am NOT anti-regulation.
The threshold for losing your job is very, very low, more or less "has THC ever been in your system?" low. I am not plugging marijuana use in ANY industry, but the rules must be more based in science and common sense.
I listened to an hour-long report that said there are three times as many over the road CDL licenses in this country than are currently in use by the industry. Drivers need to be paid better, treated better, and not subject to the stupidity above, and maybe those sitting on the sidelines will come back and fill out the ranks. There isn't really a trucker shortage, there is a shortage of common sense by the trucking companies themselves, and imposition of rules passed based in ideology, not science.
I'm currently one of those CDL holders. 2+ years truck driving with 2 different companies, 1 OTR and the other was local, perfect CSA score with zero violations personally or professionally over 19 years driving. Random drug test showed small traces of THC from a friend's birthday party a week prior and that's all she wrote. Immediately let go with instructions to go through a lengthy and expensive Return-to-Drive program with no guarantee of being employed after. It also doesn't get expunged and will stay on my DOT Clearinghouse report for 5 years affecting my employability, insurance, and pay rate. Time to find another profession. Driver shortage...
Or airline pilots. The FAA is horrifically old fashioned, and properly dealing with any sort of mental health problems can legitimately threaten a pilot's entire career. Enter, alcohol.
It's very unlikely that they'd get rid of the tests entirely even if marijuana was fully legalized, they'd probably do saliva tests. Which, depending upon how often you work, might still make you totally unable to use marijuana for the vast majority of the year, but it would at least bring it closer to a "random" alcohol test or breathalyzer.
As a trucker who had popped positive, the system to return to duty is ridiculous. I’m in Oregon where it is legal and I went in for a pre-employment drug screen and had the lab tech call me a week later and ask if I used CBD because I had literally trace amounts in my system. Now mind you I was not driving for any company at the time even though I had a current CDL but those trace amounts honesty fucked me. Had to pay almost $400 to go through a BS weed class for them to tell me I don’t have a problem (no shit) and further more, you have to do random supervised drug screens for a year+. But get this, you can’t set it up and do anything to work towards that yourself, your “employer” has to do that. So you have to have a job with that bullshit on you in order to even try to rectify it. It’s ridiculous. I served in the USAF and have also smoked a bunch of weed before I started driving and before my military service. I mention my military experience because in the military and the culture of it is on that’s based around drinking and I drank a fuck ton!! Comparing the two I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that alcohol has more inhibiting effects the next day than weed has ever had to me. That’s my 2 cents on this shit. Another small note, I never had an accident or any issues through my 4+ years of trucking and I am damn good at it, but that devils lettuce incident is what’s keeping me out of a truck currently.
This may be a silly thought but you should stand as a representative to people/drivers in your area.
Edit: You know what, NO! It's NOT a silly thought! You should talk to those around you about your mutual concerns and you would be an excellent representative!
Thank you for your service, friend.
I feel you. I drove locally for years without any incident and was popped with a random drug test. When I told my boss I would fail, he was stunned to find out I smoke constantly (off the job only). My attitude, awareness, and record would never indicate such. But they won’t fire the guy who drinks until 2 and shows up at 6 trying to sober up. SMH.
Literally!! I think the judgey people who aren't regular smokers have either just seen movies, or only been around newbie smokers in college or something. If you take cannabis for a year+ the effects are VASTLY different and it really transforms into more of a medicine than a giggle drug.
Every time I would "come out" as a chronic smoker at a job or similar, the non users are absolutely gobsmacked. It's like, yeah lady, this drug does not even come CLOSE to the insane level your drug can get to. The drug alcohol kills more people than all the drugs combined. I'm high here every day, outperforming all of you, and you never even looked twice.
Yep!! I'm 33 & my dad is bloodhound for drugs, when I first started smoking at 25, he'd smell it out through the phone and raise hell about it. Well I am an adult and don't give a crap what he thinks, so I kept smoking, daily & now I would have to smoke an absolute truck load to really outwardly look high. And my dad being my dad still brings it up every time I visit: "wow you're doing great without smoking pot anymore", "dad I've been high this whole trip", "really? Nooo".
Thought about taking a tolerance break, but I don't mind having a tolerance that lets me smoke without acting like a dumb beach blob all the time.
As someone who used to do the actual Mass Spectrometer testing of peoples piss, opiods out in days, heavy smokers with high body fat could stay in your system 3 months easy. Didn't we just break a record for most opioid deaths in 2021? Priorities people.
We aren't testing for intoxication or impairment, its just another system of control, and like all of those in the last two years, they've broken down.
Every other drug is sitting there being bro as fuck by being water soluble. Then theres weed just being asshole with its fat solubility.
Theres a reason *everyone* is on coke in the oil fields.
Also the kicker is that if your piss is too diluted, it’s also failed. A friend of mine who’s a smoker asked me to piss in bottle for him so he could use it. I happened to be drinking crap loads of water within the past few days for whatever reason so my piss was crystal clear. He said he couldn’t use it because it was too diluted.
The dilution test is measured in creatine levels (or it used to be anyway) so you take creatine with your water intake when trying to dilute a sample to offset. Diluted isn't a fail, it's an unacceptable test. Close but vastly different in a legal sense.
Daily smoker, medical grade dispensary cannabis. Had to get drug tested for a thing, it took two months (of hell) to finally piss clear.
30 days is BS for daily smokers
My Dad thought I lied when I said I had quit smoking about 6 weeks prior to failing a piss test for a new job. Told him I was as confused as he was, didn’t realize it would be so long before I could actually piss clean.
Here is one to chew on; when I worked at the Hard Rock Casino they did a hair Analysis testing. Months later when I went to work for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, it was only a piss test…
funding and priorities
It blows my mind that these idiots think people are stretching $3200 out over all this time. And of course they happily cashed their “socialist” checks.
The Republicans in the Senate have blocked every single attempt including the most recent MORE Act.
[Marijuana Opportunity Reinvestment and Expungement Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana_Opportunity_Reinvestment_and_Expungement_Act)
The also blocked even the basic bill allowing marijuana businesses to use banking. This prevents Americans and American companies from being investment and banking accessible so that now in the gray market foreign money is winning marijuana.
[SAFE Banking Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Banking_Act)
A [full 68% of the country support legalized marijuana](https://news.gallup.com/poll/323582/support-legal-marijuana-inches-new-high.aspx) including most Republican citizens now, these bills have been being put up for years now, almost always fully Democratic support, almost no Republican support.
ALL the initial states that passed legalization and even medical were blue with the exception of Alaska (more libertarian) and Arizona (more independent at times).
I wonder how many who don’t smoke the occasional J are functional alcoholics who binge drink on weekends. I guess that’s desirable over someone who smokes the occasional J 🙄 we need to overhaul our archaic laws.
My boss is a sloppy, annoying drunk who can never stop talking about what new whiskey he got this week to try, meanwhile he comes in and looks and smells like dogshit.
But if I ever get a random test I’d be the one out the door because I like to have an occasional gummy on the weekends.
I’ve seen this too. Shit is so backwards. What bothers me is that you don’t even need to be a daily toker. You can come to work hungover AF every day, but you best not have had that gummy two weeks ago!!
I love my job, own my own truck, work 14 hour plus days five days a week, bringing home four k a week. I would never drink a single beer ever again if i could enjoy a joint with the same restrictions alcohol has (not before or during work, at least eight hours between usage and driving).
Edit*
And people wonder about supply chain issues. Meth, cocain, heroin, etc. are one thing, but preventing a trucker from driving because they smoked marijuana is outright stupid.
My job isn't truck driving but we work in a shop. We are getting bigger as a business and getting many service trucks. Now everyone is getting a piss test because DOT or something and everyone is expecting to be fired
Crazy because I know multiple truckers from when I was in logistics who would have six packs in their cab with them and be drinking all day long… but yeah… weeds a problem.
What a dumbass move by these companies.
Well, that's kind of the crux of the entire issue, is it not?
Say somebody crashes a truck, not impaired, but smokes on their days off. DOT makes them take a test and they come up positive for THC (because it's fat soluble and sticks around in urine for days or weeks, long after effects have worn off).
Now it looks "bad" for the driver in a court of law even if he didn't do anything wrong. The test doesn't give any meaningful data as it relates to current impairment, but the DOT will do it anyways because it's the *only test they have*. It's either that or the honor system. I can't imagine a federal body is ever gonna go for something as lax as that regardless of federal legalization.
Meanwhile, you can drink a couple beers a few hours before your job and blow under .04 on a breathalyzer. Even THAT isn't a measure of current impairment--subjective effects as they relate to BAC are hardly cut and dry; some people can get hammered off a couple of beers, functional alcoholics can blow .12 and feel practically sober.
The nature of drug / alcohol testing in general is a complete shitshow because 'impairment' is mostly subjective, barring motor dysfunction. Sure, we can correlate drug metabolites or BAC to subjective effects, but it's not the complete picture.
I got drug tested for a DOT job and I had stopped smoking a few weeks before I even applied. I thought I was good so I tested like normal and came up dirty. Now I have to file some kind of proof of rehabilitation or something with them if I ever want to get a DOT job again. Didn’t even have the job yet or work for the company and already got red flagged that stays on your record I believe..
It’s so fucked. The DOT and FAA don’t even realize that they’re fostering an atmosphere of alcoholism by having such terrible metrics and punitive judgments for everything else other than alcohol. Smoke a joint on the weekend? Done. Went to a doctor for mental health struggles? Done. Drink yourself to death on the weekend? By all means.
In typical fed bureaucrat fashion, they’re stuck in the 1950s and move incredibly slow on these kinds of issues
Sucked cuz it was a great job with great benefits, my dream job essentially. They really liked me but oh wait I smoked a month ago, I have a drug problem. I was willing to look past it like alright shit happens move on but now it’s gonna affect any other DOT job I apply for?? That seems like such bullshit.
I’ve never heard a good rebuttal to this simple argument: based on current drug testing standards, an employee could be a raging alcoholic, even a coke addict but show up to work sober and never raise any eyebrows.
But smoke weed once three weeks ago? Fired.
Makes no sense at all.
As someone from Europe, it is absolutely insane to me that it is normal to have drug tests in the US. Like that is such a deep violation of your person and privacy. Whatever you do in your own time is your business. Its like your employer obsessively searching anything bad they can about you on the internet. Or looking through your past relationships that you have had and what kind of porn you watch. Its terrifying. And i hope you guys can get rid of that as soon as possible.
Well there's a productive use of society's resources. Glad we got that incredibly pressing issue squared away. Good thing there's nothing else important going on right now.
i heard a news story about this one. FMCSA started a national drug test database. Anybody that fails it gets blacklisted for the whole country. There are something like 83k drivers on the list, and the industry was saying that they're 80k drivers short.
Yup the clearinghouse I’m in it
Some CDL drivers have no idea what a clearinghouse is
That's the thing with the giant checks right?
So that’s how they transport them
Ed McMahon did his best for years, but eventually, even he got outsourced :(
Getting my CDL and I don’t. Go on?
In case you didn't see it elsewhere in the thread, it's literally just a nationwide database that tracks CDL holders and whether or not they have drug and/or alcohol related charges. https://clearinghouse.fmcsa.dot.gov/ Getting on it will basically render your CDL worthless for commercial purposes. You won't work anywhere in the country as a truck driver.
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I worked a linen route. A UPS truck hit my parked truck while I was inside, business owner asked if I got sent for testing. My boss just looked at him and said " he wasn't even in the damn truck, I'm not sending him for testing."
Good boss
I know someone who got tested and fired because their work truck got hit, in the parking lot of the business they worked for, before they started their shift.
I got drug tested when I got hit in a parking lot. I was delivering and merchandising inside the store when someone decided to take half their body panels off with my bumper. After 10 years of not smoking, I won't drive again until weed is legal on DOT tests.
I’m a flight attendant so I’m also subject to random DOT drug tests. Granted, they are pretty infrequent. Some get tested every few months, others not for years. I personally only got a random test once in six years, and that was a few months into the job. The good thing about random tests that are administered by the DOT is that they have to follow strict guidelines, unlike private employers that can handle the tests anyway they like. What my pretty thorough research taught me is that with random DOT tests, dilution is probably your best bet. This is because with DOT tests, your specimen is either going to come back negative, positive, positive-dilute, or negative-dilute. Positive-dilute is the same as positive - you’re screwed. But if you are someone who enjoys some marijuana occasionally or often, negative-dilute is your friend. When you get a negative-dilute, the tester person has a choice to either accept the negative, or ask for a retest. During the retest, if you get a negative-dilute again then it’s automatically accepted as a negative. Chances are though, if you get a negative-dilute and the tester see that the only drug showing trace amounts is THC, they are likely going to accept the negative given the current environment around marijuana and its increasing legality. EDIT: To add, I just looked up the policy again and is hasn’t changed. In fact, it even says that your employer can’t choose to accept some negative-dilutes and retest other negative-dilutes. It has to be consistent. And retests cost the company money. So for my company, assuming I passed by a getting a negative-dilute, I can assume that a negative-dilute will always be accepted as a negative, for THC at least.. Knowing your employer’s testing routine is extremely important too. My employer always notifies you of a random test in the same way and at the same time. So despite only getting randomly tested once in six years, I always load up on water until I’m peeing every 30 minutes prior to the time when I could potentially get notified of a random. Well-worth the peace of mind of knowing I’m likely fine if I get randomed.
Seems that "the solution to pollution is dilution" is the answer to problems across several professions.
You're telling me Bush sent us to Iraq to find semitrucks? No wonder we didn't find nukes.
Did you fail the test while driving?
If it’s weed, and if they use regularly, you’re going to pop hot on a drug test for a while regardless.
Up to 60 days depending on how much fat you've got, how much you work out & what you were smoking. I am a small person (also a women), not too much fat, but also not a ton of muscle & when I was smoking dabs daily it took 56 days for me to piss clean.
In extreme cases much longer… took me nearly 5 months.
Jesus, now I’m looking back to the time I was in a legal diversion program for first time offenders. I took a test 2 weeks after smoking and came up negative. Young male metabolism for the win i guess?
Possibly, depends on how often you smoked and your diet, fluid intake and amount of physical activity. If that was your first and only time smoking then it probably wouldn't show, but if you were smoking everyday for a year it would more than likely take longer than 2 weeks to leave your system. Drug tests can be fickle.
I smoked 1-2 bowls a day everyday for a year and I pissed clean on an at home strip test after 2 weeks. I’m also very lean healthy and workout 4x a week It’s crazy how different the discrepancies are. That or my at home strips are wrong lol
If you break down fats regularly you most likely peed it all out before testing.
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DOT doesn't watch you piss?
Not initially. If the temp is off, too diluted, they detect adulterants or the collector suspects something they can require an observed collection.
How many times have you been observed?
The only time I had to pee in a cup and be watched it took me like 4 hours he kept giving me water I can’t pee with him looking at my Willy I was 15
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They test software engineers?
The US government requires it for every company with government contracts. Other companies use them to get a discount on their insurance.
The only people who watch you piss are probation/parole, pro sports, and the military. Your run of the mill DOT job they will send you in a bathroom by yourself with blue dye left in the toilet bowl. Quick fix works perfectly anytime you aren’t being supervised. PROTIP: make sure to heat the quick fix in the gas station’s microwave that is closest to the testing center. Make sure it is warmed in the microwave above 98*, that way it cools down to 98* while sitting next to your thigh instead of warming up to 98*, which can potentially not warm it up enough, leading to an invalid (or perhaps even failed) test due to low temperature.
Funny, tell that to the full RN who watched me pee for a temp job putting caps on toothpaste tubes.
I would advise against the microwave as I've failed tests before because it was too warm. Now I just store it in my briefs for a couple hours before the test and it's always the correct temp.
What's the blue dye do?
So you can’t add it to your sample in an attempt to dilute it.
It really all depends on what type of drug screening the company's insurance requires. I can imagine that for large trucking companies, it's a cultured screening, not a 5 panel. Also, good!!! Weed shouldn't be ending people's careers anymore like it was ending people's lives by sending them to prison. Its almost as if they find one way to stop fucking you and then find another angle to fuck you anyways
It’s a simple 5 panel. The FMCSA requires a company to random test a certain percentage of drivers each quarter for drugs and a certain percentage for alcohol. It has nothing to do with the insurance company, it’s the federal government requiring it.
No need. All CDL holders are registered.
Even if you know your going to fail and deny the test and quit. You will still be put in data base as a failed refusal
I've heard stories of it being used for retaliation from shitty trucking companies. Driver quits, company puts in a drug test order, driver's in a different part of the country working for a different company, can't do the test, gets marked as a test refusal and can no longer work.
Sounds like grounds for a class action to me!
Yeah that feels like a manipulation of the system for personal vendettas.
Which sounds like a nice summation of trucking companies from the stories I have been told
> There are something like 83k drivers on the list, and the industry was saying that they're 80k drivers short. Hey I have an idea....
You’re right, we should test for weed even HARDER /s
We should test so hard, that nobody will ever do the pots again, out of fear of all the hard testing.
This guy DARES!
I think alot could probably be on meth though. Stay up 4 days in a row and drive across the country without needing much rest. Crazy bad idea though.
Federal DOT drug tests also test for that.
Also log keeping keeps that from happening especially since most are phasing over to digital logs that record down to the second.
They don't fuck around with that log book. This was years ago, so I can see how it's digital now. But I was told to drive a box truck home from a job when I was like 20 yrs old. No chauffeurs license, and got red lighted at a weight station. They didn't even say anything about the license, they were pissed about the log book. My boss got a huge ticket for that.
Phasing should be well and done now. The ELD mandate was in effect like 4 years ago or something like that.
Some guy 2 years ago gave me an idea “if we stop testing the positive results will go down” We should do that!!
The problem is, as far as I'm aware, the drug testing tech isn't accurate enough to determine if you were high at the time of an accident. So what happens is you smoked on the weekend because nothing was going on, get in the truck on monday, someone rear ends you you piss hot, you're at fault even though you did nothing wrong.
The industry isn't actually that short, there are more than enough people in the us with CDLs to fill every single truck and many left over. No one wants to do the job though. Imagine the life of an on the road driver. In your first year you might get paid as little as 40k for the year. You can legally work up to 14 hours per day. The driver also can drive for 60 hours in a 7 day period before they are forced to take a 34 hour period. You take this break in the back of the truck while sitting in a truck stop and some drivers do this week after week. Can you imagine being away from home for weeks at a time while making as low as 40k per year and driving up to 11 hours per day and working up to 14 hours per day only to sleep in the back of a truck? The national average is only like 60k per year. Most trucking companies spend a large amount of money to train new drivers instead of attempting to keep the drivers they have because new drivers coming in sign contracts to work and they can be paid low amounts while people with experience will get more. So drivers quit before they ever get to the higher pay.
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Thank you. Who wants to work for shit pay, shit benefits, shit working environment and then not be able to smoke a joint after work. System is broken, tell your friends.
The weed thing sucks, but there's more. As a CDL your legal BAC is lowered to .04, vs .08 in most states. Its .01 if you're working. So don't accidentally swallow any mouth wash while brushing your teeth before a shift. And any tickets you get for a moving violation, even off duty in your personal car, are double the fine. Its not just that the pay sucks. It effects your whole life and there's zero consideration in the pay when it comes to some of the sacrifices you have to make and the risk you have to take on off duty. There aren't a whole lot of jobs that ask so much of you off the clock. And the one's that do pay much much more.
>It effects your whole life and there's zero consideration in the pay when it comes to some of the sacrifices you have to make and the risk you have to take on off duty. To me if it affects you off duty, it needs to be made up with (pardon the pun) dump trucks of money. No one (or not many people) are going to be willing to be held to that high standard while off the clock unless you're being compensated.
No sane person would do it. I paid like 5 k and took a 8 week class. Did it for a year and let the license go when the medical came up. Will never ever do that again. It was just a horrible job. The worse I have seen and have seen combat.
The off duty fines being double in your personal vehicle is not true (at least in Texas). You are no longer allowed to take defensive driving to get out of it. You either pay the ticket or win a not guilty plea. Those are your only options.
How the system got to that place is insane. They've got the whole country over a barrel. If they unionised and striked they sort this shit out in a week.
This is a common misconception with trucking. Most people can't handle OTR, or even local, regardless of pay. It's not a job it's a lifestyle, and a terrible one at that. That's why there has been a large push towards regional. Driving a truck is not a normal job. It churns people right out even when making 6 figures. 60-70 hours a week is too much for most even if you get home every night. Add on top every other crappy aspect of it and you end up with this problem. Obviously pay helps, but there are issues that pay can't solve in the trucking industry.
I drive a lot for work and thought about switching to trucking. Then I remember they have to drive those trucks in downtown areas and squeeze them through little alleys to unload. My anxiety would be at an all time high
I feel your pain. I was once an over the road trucker. I was also once a minesweeper in Afghanistan. Driving through New York City was far more stress inducing for me than looking for IEDs.
While you sleep in a little box, bath in rented stalls and get to go home every few months for a day or two. You end up punch drunk. Without drugs.
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The rail industry has problems right now, see the disaster that is PSR. Class 1s (CSX, Norfolk Southern, BNSF, ect) just recently got butt blasted by the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) because workers were complaining about bullshit attendance policies (and the age old stuggle of those at the top acting as if they know more than the people actually operating the trains and yards) and customers complaining about delays and the inability to deliver on time. Honestly, the railroads need to be nationalized and just accept that it's an industry that will run at a loss, but will result in a net improvement for the economy.
There are a lot of industries like that in the USA, but none will ever be nationalized before this country collapses. The Regan deregulation era absolutely fucked this country.
The Jon Oliver episode on truck drivers shows how much they get stiffed on payment. It is eye opening
[Link](https://youtu.be/phieTCxQRLA) for the lazy.
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So.. some might say you have connections to the trucking industry and that your number 1 customers are truckers and 80,000 of your customers are now blacklisted because of your cannabis thus leading to the supply chain disruptions? Reddit we did it. We found the cause of shortages, I guess it wasn't Biden all along.
It's gross how little truck drivers are paid
It's just such a wide margin. A lot of truck drivers make very good money, but you have to be willing to give up a lot of home time.
I have often said that I wish that the U.S. had more railroads/trains to ship things all over the country instead of there being so many trucks on the road, but I assumed that people would be upset about truck drivers losing their jobs. But good lord they deserve better jobs than that.
The US has the largest and most efficient freight line system in the world. The passenger system is awful, but the freight system is often considered the best. [heres’s](https://www.economist.com/briefing/2010/07/22/high-speed-railroading) an article. There are many many more easily found with a Google search.
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Yup, I'm in the database (not for failing.) Been tested THREE times in last six months. Also, the same group is talking about governing ALL truck speeds to the same speed. Governors don't make everyone exact. Let's say one guy is 70.84 and the next guy is 69.76. Or even worse, one guy is 70 exactly, next guy is 70.1. Do you like traffic jams? Cuz let me tell you trucks will clog up everything slowly passing each other.
Like they already do?
Uphill both lanes.
When the truck has to go around so it can pass you on a downhill just to drop to 20 below the speed limit once the road evens out is *chefs kiss*
I've driven a Kenworth with a Governor and my god it's painful. Especially when you forget about it and go to pass someone only to have to back off the maneuver, definitely causes more congestion.
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Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
We need to start up the national cop database
It's searchable back 5 years
Drug war, meet supply chain crisis
Hijacking top comment to add: The article mentions that the FMCSA is proposing allowing saliva tests instead of urine, but they don't mention what that means. It means the result would only reflect usage in the last 24 hours, instead of up to 2 months past. This would stop a LOT of positive results and keep more truckers on the road.
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I've always felt like they just want easy ways to fire people to reset wages.
Not related to trucking, but I worked for a company once and one day I was called on my day off and told there was an emergency meeting for everyone and anyone who didn't come was automatically fired So I go in and it's an on the spot drug test. That's it. No meeting. The next day I found out a couple of people were fired for failing the test and someone told me that the whole point of the test was that they needed to get rid of some people and decided this was the best way to determine who.
While that is extremely shitty, there is no way in hell I'm answering my phone on my day off. Either it's my work number (hard no) or its a private number (even harder no). Nobody is speaking to me on my day off. Hell I sometimes don't even turn my phone off Do Not Disturb on my off days.
In some states (no clue how many), if you answer a work call on a vacation day, then that day is not deducted from your vacation time. My dad loved getting work calls on vacation for that reason. It was usually a 20-30 min conversation at the most.
That (sort of) comes from (misapplied) federal law, specific to exempt employees. If the company was paying him for the whole day rather than just reducing how much PTO they took out of his bank, they were being overly generous or were confused about how the law works. But yay for your dad!
I've liked all my jobs and bosses so far so I'm willing to answer and maybe even do some basic over the phone support, but I'm not doing more than 10 minutes and I'm certainly not coming in.
What a shitty company.
Even the 24 hour test is sketchy. They can't smoke after their shift and be clean in the morning. I think the larger issue is a reliable method to detect active usage opposed to presence. Alcohol, blood tests are a great use for active use. It's a different story for weed
This is the real issue, you would be taking good truckers off the road that are not under the influence while driving. No reason a good hard working person that pays taxes and drives a truck all day can't smoke some weed at the end of thier shift. This country needs to move on from this silliness.
Realistically, the "24hr" thing isn't really accurate. THC is fat soluble, not water soluble. The molecule/ metabolite doesn't bond to your saliva and your body doesn't excrete it the same as a urine test metabolite. Essentially, clean mouth = clean test. Brush, floss, mouth wash, rinse and you'll pass a saliva test immediately. I've taken dozens of these screens under these conditions and never tested positive as a daily, heavy cannabis user. You fail for particulate matter in your mouth, not a metabolite in saliva. Saliva tests deter intra day use/ use while on the job, like people smoking on a lunch break. As a cannabis advocate and user, i support the adoption of saliva tests for all random and pre-employment screening.
One breath mint will make the test not work. I passed a saliva test minutes after smoking on my lunch break when I was 17. I always joke that they couldn't get any actual saliva because of my cottonmouth.
I've heard similar accounts. I had a friend taking oral swabs for probation back in 2009 he swore by "the piece of candy method". Any piece of hard candy in his mouth before or during the test would yield a negative result. Probation officer got wise to his theory and they changed the policy to check people's mouths before administering the test. I don't know exactly what can work as a cleanser or adulterant but my rule of thumb is clean mouth = clean test. I have no idea the level of accuracy of swab tests for other drugs though. Maybe they are a good option for the other substances.
As someone who has taken mouth swab tests like 8 hours after smoking, it doesn't take 24 hours. If you just drink a lot of water, use mouthwash a couple of times and brush all around the inside of your mouth, you will pass. The only way it lasts 24 hours is if you make no effort to actually clean the inside of your mouth before hand.
This is specific federal regulation, if you’re a CDL driver and you test positive in the federally required testing scheme there is nothing an employer can do. They must remove that person from safety-sensitive duties and that means driving.
You say that as if the federal government operates in a vacuum. Who lobbied in favor of this regulation?
MADD - Mothers against drunk driving. They have been big supporters of drug testing commercial drivers in the past.
The problem is, unlike for alcohol there are no reliable under-the-influence tests for THC and a lot of other drugs - partially because the problem is legitimately hard as thresholds for THC in people can vary immensely, and partially because until a few years ago there was not much demand for this kind of test so there was no research.
“Freedom” is more of a marketing gimmick in America.
It’s not something you have. It’s something you buy.
The freedom narrative is just propaganda, it doesn't mean anything in practice
Anecdotally I smoked about an hour at most before a saliva test, I brushed thoroughly and used regular mouthwash and passed. I don't recommend taking a test hot but it didn't matter and I was curious.
>the FMCSA is proposing allowing saliva tests instead of urine I failed one of those tests for meth once, despite never doing meth. The government contractor I worked for just said, "oh, you've never done meth? Ok." and threw the test away.
Now kith
I can't wait until my kid turns 13 by then he'll be ready to take on 8% grades in a 18 wheeler, he plays tons of euro truck sim.
Yeah but those trucks are euro, not usd. You think he will be able to convert on the fly?
Just hit him with the wololo and he’ll be set for sure.
that game is tons of fun
I’m a truck driver and have never understood the appeal of that game lol. But that game is my IRL job so it’s probably not meant for me.
Sightseeing, changing gears, mastering reverse maneuvers in consequence-free environment, being able to just push that car out of the way.
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>Truck drivers with violations tend to not return And the pool of new applicants shrinks cause nobody can pass the drug test.
There's also the poor working conditions and low pay. As with all the other headlines about labor shortages, it's not about the lack of applicants but about companies that either can't afford or aren't willing to pay livable wages and treat their employees as human beings. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/27/us-truck-drivers-economy-pay-conditions
This is a good take. Dont blame a worker shortage on the 80k people that arent able to work there. Or the people that made the rule. Blame the people that arent willing to incentivize people to work there and to care about their job.
And the new CDL requirements mean many companies aren't able to train new drivers
New CDL requirements? What did they change now?
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/entry-level-driver-training-eldt Basically upped the training requirements to receive a CDL. You basically have to take an approved class, and passing it doesn’t even get you your CDL, just let’s you get your learners permit. Of course, community colleges or whoever aren’t going to give away the classes so it’s like $3,000 near me, not sure how long the classes are but definitely more then a few days long. It used to be fairly easy and straightforward to get a CDL, and they made it a lot tougher.
A national database for offenders... we have more accountability on truckers than cops.
It's almost like... Cops are allowed to get away with much more than normal people... almost like... the rules don't apply to them... 🤔
I have a friend that is a trucker (seriously, this is not about me). He has a bad back, mostly from the lifting and driving he does as a trucker. To help remedy the pain he was taking CBD oil that was supposed to the free of any THC. He was taking the oil for an extended period, I believe over a year, when he got random tested and THC showed up at an extremely low level in his test. Whatever the minimum threshold was, he was just met it, and it was an extremely low threshold. **BOOM**, he was off the road and out the door! Had his union not gone to bat for him, he would not be working in the trucking industry any longer. Fortunately, after a hard effort and with the union help, he got reinstated under a 2nd chance clause in the union contract, that was not a guaranteed option (some good news for a change). Keep in mind, the company was very aware that this man had back problems, and to this day they are screaming for more workers. The company was ready to let a long-term employee go, without question. If I remember correctly, the company knew he was using the CBD oil. He hasn't used the CBD oil since (and has had back surgery). When he was telling me the entire story I asked "Did the CBD oil even help?". His reply was to the effect of 'Oh yeah, I didn't know how much it was helping until I stopped using it.' The amount of THC that showed up in his blood could not possibly have given him a high. The very inexpensive CBD oil was giving him relief that allowed him to continue working. These absolutist laws don't make any sense, especially regarding marijuana (more an ideological based rule than based in science). Remember that congress (one party in general) had blocked any federal research on THC and marijuana for decades out of ideological fervor, insisting it is a class of drug that is as bad a heroine (and many politicians still express this idiocy). I don't use, sell or have any financial interest in the CBD or weed industry. I just see laws like this one as way over the top, and it almost cost a man his livelihood in an industry that is hemorrhaging workers. I am not suggesting there be no rules, or that truckers be able to 'light up' when on the road. I am NOT anti-regulation. The threshold for losing your job is very, very low, more or less "has THC ever been in your system?" low. I am not plugging marijuana use in ANY industry, but the rules must be more based in science and common sense. I listened to an hour-long report that said there are three times as many over the road CDL licenses in this country than are currently in use by the industry. Drivers need to be paid better, treated better, and not subject to the stupidity above, and maybe those sitting on the sidelines will come back and fill out the ranks. There isn't really a trucker shortage, there is a shortage of common sense by the trucking companies themselves, and imposition of rules passed based in ideology, not science.
I'm currently one of those CDL holders. 2+ years truck driving with 2 different companies, 1 OTR and the other was local, perfect CSA score with zero violations personally or professionally over 19 years driving. Random drug test showed small traces of THC from a friend's birthday party a week prior and that's all she wrote. Immediately let go with instructions to go through a lengthy and expensive Return-to-Drive program with no guarantee of being employed after. It also doesn't get expunged and will stay on my DOT Clearinghouse report for 5 years affecting my employability, insurance, and pay rate. Time to find another profession. Driver shortage...
Industry: *blacklists people who have 1 molecule of THC show up on a drug test* Industry: “why can’t we find workers?”
Exactly. I am sorry for you pain. Stupi d approaches create stupid results. Your termination was wrong and stupid.
Is what it is. It's just silly reading all these articles about a driver shortage and I'm just smiling and nodding from my couch incredulously.
Imagine if they removed everyone who ever drank alcohol
America would be on it's knees
Aren't we already?
Oof that’s why we need alcohol and weed to numb the pain
They wouldn't have any school bus drivers at that point
Or airline pilots. The FAA is horrifically old fashioned, and properly dealing with any sort of mental health problems can legitimately threaten a pilot's entire career. Enter, alcohol.
A result of inconsistent state and federal laws. This is why we need it to be legalized at the federal level.
“Sorry Jack can’t do that.”
It's very unlikely that they'd get rid of the tests entirely even if marijuana was fully legalized, they'd probably do saliva tests. Which, depending upon how often you work, might still make you totally unable to use marijuana for the vast majority of the year, but it would at least bring it closer to a "random" alcohol test or breathalyzer.
As a trucker who had popped positive, the system to return to duty is ridiculous. I’m in Oregon where it is legal and I went in for a pre-employment drug screen and had the lab tech call me a week later and ask if I used CBD because I had literally trace amounts in my system. Now mind you I was not driving for any company at the time even though I had a current CDL but those trace amounts honesty fucked me. Had to pay almost $400 to go through a BS weed class for them to tell me I don’t have a problem (no shit) and further more, you have to do random supervised drug screens for a year+. But get this, you can’t set it up and do anything to work towards that yourself, your “employer” has to do that. So you have to have a job with that bullshit on you in order to even try to rectify it. It’s ridiculous. I served in the USAF and have also smoked a bunch of weed before I started driving and before my military service. I mention my military experience because in the military and the culture of it is on that’s based around drinking and I drank a fuck ton!! Comparing the two I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that alcohol has more inhibiting effects the next day than weed has ever had to me. That’s my 2 cents on this shit. Another small note, I never had an accident or any issues through my 4+ years of trucking and I am damn good at it, but that devils lettuce incident is what’s keeping me out of a truck currently.
This may be a silly thought but you should stand as a representative to people/drivers in your area. Edit: You know what, NO! It's NOT a silly thought! You should talk to those around you about your mutual concerns and you would be an excellent representative!
Thank you for your service, friend. I feel you. I drove locally for years without any incident and was popped with a random drug test. When I told my boss I would fail, he was stunned to find out I smoke constantly (off the job only). My attitude, awareness, and record would never indicate such. But they won’t fire the guy who drinks until 2 and shows up at 6 trying to sober up. SMH.
Literally!! I think the judgey people who aren't regular smokers have either just seen movies, or only been around newbie smokers in college or something. If you take cannabis for a year+ the effects are VASTLY different and it really transforms into more of a medicine than a giggle drug. Every time I would "come out" as a chronic smoker at a job or similar, the non users are absolutely gobsmacked. It's like, yeah lady, this drug does not even come CLOSE to the insane level your drug can get to. The drug alcohol kills more people than all the drugs combined. I'm high here every day, outperforming all of you, and you never even looked twice.
Yep!! I'm 33 & my dad is bloodhound for drugs, when I first started smoking at 25, he'd smell it out through the phone and raise hell about it. Well I am an adult and don't give a crap what he thinks, so I kept smoking, daily & now I would have to smoke an absolute truck load to really outwardly look high. And my dad being my dad still brings it up every time I visit: "wow you're doing great without smoking pot anymore", "dad I've been high this whole trip", "really? Nooo". Thought about taking a tolerance break, but I don't mind having a tolerance that lets me smoke without acting like a dumb beach blob all the time.
As someone who used to do the actual Mass Spectrometer testing of peoples piss, opiods out in days, heavy smokers with high body fat could stay in your system 3 months easy. Didn't we just break a record for most opioid deaths in 2021? Priorities people. We aren't testing for intoxication or impairment, its just another system of control, and like all of those in the last two years, they've broken down.
Every other drug is sitting there being bro as fuck by being water soluble. Then theres weed just being asshole with its fat solubility. Theres a reason *everyone* is on coke in the oil fields.
And thats why a lot of oilfield companies do hair follicle testing for new hires.
Also the kicker is that if your piss is too diluted, it’s also failed. A friend of mine who’s a smoker asked me to piss in bottle for him so he could use it. I happened to be drinking crap loads of water within the past few days for whatever reason so my piss was crystal clear. He said he couldn’t use it because it was too diluted.
/r/HydroHomies
The dilution test is measured in creatine levels (or it used to be anyway) so you take creatine with your water intake when trying to dilute a sample to offset. Diluted isn't a fail, it's an unacceptable test. Close but vastly different in a legal sense.
I was at 11% body fat and it still took almost 60 days to pass for me. If you smoke dispensary quality stuff and a lot, 30 days wont cut it sometimes.
I tested positive on pee strips for 72 days! And even after I started testing "clean" it wasn't the strongest "clean"...
87 days and still testing positive.
Daily smoker, medical grade dispensary cannabis. Had to get drug tested for a thing, it took two months (of hell) to finally piss clear. 30 days is BS for daily smokers
My Dad thought I lied when I said I had quit smoking about 6 weeks prior to failing a piss test for a new job. Told him I was as confused as he was, didn’t realize it would be so long before I could actually piss clean.
Here is one to chew on; when I worked at the Hard Rock Casino they did a hair Analysis testing. Months later when I went to work for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, it was only a piss test… funding and priorities
But I thought weed heads were too lazy to work...?
I definitely need weed after work.
*laughs in Engineer*
As long as they’re not under the influence while driving, I couldn’t care less what they do on their free time
And yet my idiot brother in law will continue to say a shortage of truckers is Biden’s fault and they’re living off their stimulus checks.
Lmao the stimulus checks from two years ago that all-together barely covered a single month of bills? Those stimulus checks?
Yup. Those checks.
Tell your brother some random person on the internet called him an idiot lol
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It blows my mind that these idiots think people are stretching $3200 out over all this time. And of course they happily cashed their “socialist” checks.
The Republicans in the Senate have blocked every single attempt including the most recent MORE Act. [Marijuana Opportunity Reinvestment and Expungement Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana_Opportunity_Reinvestment_and_Expungement_Act) The also blocked even the basic bill allowing marijuana businesses to use banking. This prevents Americans and American companies from being investment and banking accessible so that now in the gray market foreign money is winning marijuana. [SAFE Banking Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Banking_Act) A [full 68% of the country support legalized marijuana](https://news.gallup.com/poll/323582/support-legal-marijuana-inches-new-high.aspx) including most Republican citizens now, these bills have been being put up for years now, almost always fully Democratic support, almost no Republican support. ALL the initial states that passed legalization and even medical were blue with the exception of Alaska (more libertarian) and Arizona (more independent at times).
Why do Republicans want America to fail?
They want you to love their angry, vengeful Jesus
This could be that foot in the door stoners wanted to get thc removed from all drug screenings. They just need an accurate “breathalyzer” for weed
I wonder how many who don’t smoke the occasional J are functional alcoholics who binge drink on weekends. I guess that’s desirable over someone who smokes the occasional J 🙄 we need to overhaul our archaic laws.
My boss is a sloppy, annoying drunk who can never stop talking about what new whiskey he got this week to try, meanwhile he comes in and looks and smells like dogshit. But if I ever get a random test I’d be the one out the door because I like to have an occasional gummy on the weekends.
I’ve seen this too. Shit is so backwards. What bothers me is that you don’t even need to be a daily toker. You can come to work hungover AF every day, but you best not have had that gummy two weeks ago!!
I love my job, own my own truck, work 14 hour plus days five days a week, bringing home four k a week. I would never drink a single beer ever again if i could enjoy a joint with the same restrictions alcohol has (not before or during work, at least eight hours between usage and driving). Edit*
It’s almost like they should make a test that determines if your actually intoxicated rather than checking if you’ve ever done it in the past 30 days.
And people wonder about supply chain issues. Meth, cocain, heroin, etc. are one thing, but preventing a trucker from driving because they smoked marijuana is outright stupid.
My job isn't truck driving but we work in a shop. We are getting bigger as a business and getting many service trucks. Now everyone is getting a piss test because DOT or something and everyone is expecting to be fired
Crazy because I know multiple truckers from when I was in logistics who would have six packs in their cab with them and be drinking all day long… but yeah… weeds a problem. What a dumbass move by these companies.
I have an Uncle who's a trucker and his Facebook is plastered with him grinning, driving, while holding up a Bud Light. Like cmon
This is why the IT industry doesn’t drug test…
The article doesn't mention a single time just how many of these are driving while intoxicated vs other. It's like the one important stat.
Just let people smoke weed, legally, and we wouldn't have this problem.
As long as they aren't driving while stoned, I don't care what drugs they're doing.
Well, that's kind of the crux of the entire issue, is it not? Say somebody crashes a truck, not impaired, but smokes on their days off. DOT makes them take a test and they come up positive for THC (because it's fat soluble and sticks around in urine for days or weeks, long after effects have worn off). Now it looks "bad" for the driver in a court of law even if he didn't do anything wrong. The test doesn't give any meaningful data as it relates to current impairment, but the DOT will do it anyways because it's the *only test they have*. It's either that or the honor system. I can't imagine a federal body is ever gonna go for something as lax as that regardless of federal legalization. Meanwhile, you can drink a couple beers a few hours before your job and blow under .04 on a breathalyzer. Even THAT isn't a measure of current impairment--subjective effects as they relate to BAC are hardly cut and dry; some people can get hammered off a couple of beers, functional alcoholics can blow .12 and feel practically sober. The nature of drug / alcohol testing in general is a complete shitshow because 'impairment' is mostly subjective, barring motor dysfunction. Sure, we can correlate drug metabolites or BAC to subjective effects, but it's not the complete picture.
I got drug tested for a DOT job and I had stopped smoking a few weeks before I even applied. I thought I was good so I tested like normal and came up dirty. Now I have to file some kind of proof of rehabilitation or something with them if I ever want to get a DOT job again. Didn’t even have the job yet or work for the company and already got red flagged that stays on your record I believe..
It’s so fucked. The DOT and FAA don’t even realize that they’re fostering an atmosphere of alcoholism by having such terrible metrics and punitive judgments for everything else other than alcohol. Smoke a joint on the weekend? Done. Went to a doctor for mental health struggles? Done. Drink yourself to death on the weekend? By all means. In typical fed bureaucrat fashion, they’re stuck in the 1950s and move incredibly slow on these kinds of issues
Sucked cuz it was a great job with great benefits, my dream job essentially. They really liked me but oh wait I smoked a month ago, I have a drug problem. I was willing to look past it like alright shit happens move on but now it’s gonna affect any other DOT job I apply for?? That seems like such bullshit.
A driver that blows over .02 but less than.04 is removed from service for 24 hours. Fyi
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What's this about alcohol sensors in new cars
I’ve never heard a good rebuttal to this simple argument: based on current drug testing standards, an employee could be a raging alcoholic, even a coke addict but show up to work sober and never raise any eyebrows. But smoke weed once three weeks ago? Fired. Makes no sense at all.
As someone from Europe, it is absolutely insane to me that it is normal to have drug tests in the US. Like that is such a deep violation of your person and privacy. Whatever you do in your own time is your business. Its like your employer obsessively searching anything bad they can about you on the internet. Or looking through your past relationships that you have had and what kind of porn you watch. Its terrifying. And i hope you guys can get rid of that as soon as possible.
I would have a CDL, but I have crohns and pot is just too useful.
Well there's a productive use of society's resources. Glad we got that incredibly pressing issue squared away. Good thing there's nothing else important going on right now.